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00:00:59 *** nielsm has quit IRC 00:14:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro commented on pull request #182: Fix: regression failure with Pillow 8.1.0 https://git.io/JLAKt 00:38:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #182: Fix: regression failure with Pillow 8.1.0 https://git.io/JLAna 00:42:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on pull request #182: Fix: regression failure with Pillow 8.1.0 https://git.io/JLA6t 01:39:55 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:57:38 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 02:07:44 *** DasPoseidon has quit IRC 03:16:55 *** debdog has joined #openttd 03:20:18 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 03:25:29 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 04:12:14 *** glx has quit IRC 04:32:42 *** tejanos has joined #openttd 05:04:50 *** roadt__ has joined #openttd 05:11:16 *** roadt_ has quit IRC 05:48:34 *** k-man has quit IRC 06:08:47 *** tejanos has quit IRC 06:10:42 *** k-man has joined #openttd 06:19:41 *** tokai has joined #openttd 06:19:41 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 06:26:29 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 07:01:20 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 07:01:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8507: Fix #7604: prevent houses to wander too far from town center when rebuilding https://git.io/JLNpN 07:01:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #7604: Buildings "wander" north away from roads https://git.io/fjBBq 07:01:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8509: Fix #8068: always allow removal of tram track if that generates money https://git.io/JLARS 07:01:52 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 07:01:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8068: Streetcar track removal fails when bank balance negative https://git.io/JvxRZ 07:03:01 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 07:27:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8511: Fix #8332: aborting group drag&drop could cause crashes with vehicle drag&drop https://git.io/JLAFv 07:27:15 <TrueBrain> I like that I read a bug report, and I see below that a JGRPP commit to fix the problem :P 07:29:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8332: Null pointer dereference in group window when vehicle/group dragging https://git.io/JTrzT 07:35:19 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 07:37:23 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:39:01 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 08:18:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8512: Several mistakes with ending-year and extreme values https://git.io/JLANI 08:19:36 <TrueBrain> funny how a really old bug got reintroduced :D ^^ :D 08:20:33 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 08:20:45 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 08:21:54 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 08:22:07 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 08:24:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8512: Several mistakes with ending-year and extreme values https://git.io/JLANI 08:35:01 <TrueBrain> right, 20 git blames later, to confirm some details .... :D 08:36:41 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:36:44 <TrueBrain> owh, finally, it is official, Biden won 08:36:46 <TrueBrain> shocker 08:37:00 <andythenorth> still counting, I'm watching it 08:37:09 * andythenorth stayed up way tooooo late 08:37:14 <TrueBrain> well, he cannot lose anymore 08:37:14 <andythenorth> oof 08:37:18 <TrueBrain> so ... they can do what-ever they like :P 08:39:59 <andythenorth> so houses blog post then? :D 08:40:52 <andythenorth> ha I was going to do a round-up kind of post after livestream, but I forgot 08:41:21 <andythenorth> for all the places we announced livestream, guess which one we missed? :) 08:41:52 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 08:46:14 <TrueBrain> what a silly question 08:47:18 <andythenorth> the silliest so far today? 08:47:18 <TrueBrain> either you want to tell or you don't; but this is close to childish :P (I KNOW SOMETHING YOU DONT KNOW :P) 08:47:34 <andythenorth> yeah website oopsie 08:47:34 <TrueBrain> hmm .. wtf are "clearable watered object tiles"? 08:47:58 <TrueBrain> deliberately, I did not post it on the website; that was not "forgotten", it was a choice not to :) 08:48:07 <andythenorth> ok, let's never mention it again 08:48:10 <TrueBrain> :D 08:48:31 <TrueBrain> for something you do a first time, you want to get attention of a certain group of people .. readers of our news I did not consider one of those :) 08:48:35 <andythenorth> where is this water silly question? 08:48:57 <TrueBrain> I am reading a PR that says "clearable watered object tiles" .. no mention what they are, how to get those, etc 08:49:05 <TrueBrain> so clearly it must be something that is well known to everyone 08:49:08 <TrueBrain> I don't know what it is :D 08:51:08 <andythenorth> me neither, but I know very little 08:51:11 <TrueBrain> wtf is going on with the OpenTTD Discord ... now they are also starring cats ... omg ... 08:51:20 <andythenorth> I am enjoying it, but very confused 08:51:26 <andythenorth> is cat? 08:51:28 <reldred> There's a discord? Of course there's a discord. 08:51:49 * andythenorth new convert to discord 08:51:52 <andythenorth> pretty rad 08:52:02 <TrueBrain> so, how to test this code without know wtf it is about ... tempted to just remove it 08:52:34 <reldred> yeah discord's rad til discord starts zealously overpolicing communities. 08:52:49 <andythenorth> wat gamers say bad things? 08:52:51 * andythenorth shocked 08:52:56 <TrueBrain> lol, you can build a canel on a river .. nothing changes, but it does cost you money :D 08:53:02 <reldred> Nah, there's been a few other things that have happened. 08:53:14 <reldred> An off grid living discord got nuked and all its members banned 08:53:35 <andythenorth> well now they're off-grid 08:53:42 <reldred> Irony of people 'off grid' and also on the internet is not entirely lost on me however >:D 08:53:43 <andythenorth> so must be objective achieved no? 08:53:48 <reldred> lel 08:54:13 <TrueBrain> "Docks cannot be placed on rapids" 08:54:15 <TrueBrain> wtf are rapids? 08:55:01 <reldred> Nah I just get concerned when I hear folks like the mozilla foundation call out decentralized platforms as being the biggest danger to society. I know they're thinking about Gab and Parler but their rhetoric also covers any other private forum, IRC, etc. 08:55:13 <reldred> Like, I like IRC, I like boards like tt-forums. 08:55:42 <reldred> And I'm not overly fan of organisations shoe-horning everyone onto centralised platforms so they can nanny us. 08:55:52 <reldred> s/fan/fond/ 08:56:43 <reldred> TrueBrain: maybe they're referring to rivers? sloped rivers? 08:56:52 <TrueBrain> it appears so 08:56:55 <TrueBrain> tnx 08:57:16 <andythenorth> TrueBrain where even is this PR? I did search github for 'watered' and crap 08:57:26 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7947 08:58:02 <TrueBrain> second commit 08:58:11 <TrueBrain> I have no clue what it does, why it is there, or what it is doing ... 08:58:15 <andythenorth> oh I step away sorry, that's another whackamole PR 08:58:24 <andythenorth> all of these just move the issues around 08:58:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7947: Fix #7945: Add cost of clearing the sloped tile when placing a dock https://git.io/JvTH0 08:58:35 <andythenorth> it's shuffling the deck, but to what result? 08:59:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7947: Fix #7945: Add cost of clearing the sloped tile when placing a dock https://git.io/JLAxI 08:59:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #7947: Fix #7945: Add cost of clearing the sloped tile when placing a dock https://git.io/JLAxL 08:59:53 <TrueBrain> I just removed the commit, and kept the one solving a bug 09:03:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS https://git.io/JLAx8 09:11:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8121: Cannot rebuild just buildozed dock https://git.io/JfnIF 09:11:51 <TrueBrain> bit confused by ^^; if anyone knows more about docks, would love to get some feedback :) 09:17:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8274: Feature: option to auto remove signals when in the way during rail co… https://git.io/JJsQJ 09:18:05 <andythenorth> oof docks 09:19:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8006: Codechange: Increase scrollbar length limit to UINT_MAX and make their length properly unsigned https://git.io/JLApS 09:20:01 <TrueBrain> dock placement is super odd 09:20:16 <TrueBrain> it checks more than it is big, but it doesn't claim the 3rd tile in any shape or form 09:22:08 <andythenorth> I have never noticed a problem and I build a lot of docks 09:22:13 <andythenorth> doesn't mean there aren't any :) 09:22:51 <andythenorth> ok coffee must happen, 5 hours sleep wasn't enough 09:23:22 <TrueBrain> well, I added screenshots of fun moments with docks I had :D 09:24:01 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 09:24:16 <andythenorth> there was a very big effort to prevent docks blocking ship routes 09:24:20 <andythenorth> I kind of zoned out about it 09:25:20 <andythenorth> oh I closed it https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6927 09:26:37 <TrueBrain> I read one word and closed the tab 09:26:38 <TrueBrain> how evil 09:26:39 <andythenorth> some truebrain dude had an opinion here about docks https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6926#pullrequestreview-220627935 09:26:59 <andythenorth> anyway this release list is looking nice :) 09:27:01 <andythenorth> grats etc 09:28:30 <TrueBrain> oef, I honestly suppressed any knowledge of those comments :P 09:29:01 <andythenorth> I really feel I did enough reading about docks 09:29:07 * andythenorth nearly wrote dicks, let's not eh 09:29:09 <TrueBrain> well, only 3 (I think?) bugs left and 2 PRs .. the rest either just needs a PR review/merge, or people are working on it real hard :) 09:29:19 <TrueBrain> docks can be such dicks 09:29:30 <andythenorth> GS docks 09:29:50 <andythenorth> docks not being newgrf-able or flat is much more interesting than all these weird cases 09:29:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS https://git.io/JLAhO 09:30:12 <andythenorth> like...'where can I build this dock?' should be a newgrf author question, like industries 09:30:25 <andythenorth> all this fucking around in vanilla client over trivia :) 09:31:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8511: Fix #8332: aborting group drag&drop could cause crashes with vehicle drag&drop https://git.io/JLAhZ 09:32:25 <LordAro> TrueBrain: your other 2 look reasonably sane, but i need some actual time to think about them first :) 09:32:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8511: Fix #8332: aborting group drag&drop could cause crashes with vehicle drag&drop https://git.io/JLAFv 09:32:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8332: Null pointer dereference in group window when vehicle/group dragging https://git.io/JTrzT 09:32:35 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I can fully understand that :D 09:32:55 <TrueBrain> especially the bridge one, it is a brain-breaker 09:33:06 * LordAro does some actual work 09:33:08 <TrueBrain> no rush, I appreciate the reviews :) 09:33:19 <LordAro> omg, 99 issues 09:33:34 <TrueBrain> could be 2 less :P :P :P :P 09:33:39 <TrueBrain> ghehehehe :D 09:35:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7947: Fix #7945: Add cost of clearing the sloped tile when placing a dock https://git.io/JvTH0 09:35:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #7945: Building docks does not account the cost of clearing the sloped tile https://git.io/JvT9H 09:35:18 <TrueBrain> 98! 09:37:22 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6337 <- I wonder how to fix this cleanly .. hmm 09:38:46 <andythenorth> tropic TGP is ~broken for generating rainforests in most cases, I'll look if there's an issue 09:38:58 <andythenorth> arctic might just be solved by snowline setting? 09:40:29 <andythenorth> I did try to fix TGP for tropic but le oof https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7340 09:41:09 <andythenorth> samu tried to fix snowline, but looks like an inappropriate solution https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7874 09:42:22 <TrueBrain> so somewhere with the more-heights-stuff, 2 climates broke 09:42:23 <TrueBrain> nice :D 09:43:28 <TrueBrain> looking at artic, both map generators are broken 09:43:35 <TrueBrain> even with Hilly it doesn't go high enough 09:44:09 <TrueBrain> it needs highest setting before it reaches snow :) 09:44:11 <andythenorth> I stopped playing Tropic because the maps are just flat 09:44:35 <andythenorth> some solutions got proposed, e.g. just use heightmaps etc 09:44:46 <andythenorth> is there a Better Way? 09:44:52 <TrueBrain> what is flat for Temperate, should be hilly for Tropic, I guess :D 09:45:18 <TrueBrain> the thing that simply annoys me, that if you are a new player and click Artic, you get an error a forest could not be planted 09:45:25 <TrueBrain> that gives you 0 context what the impact is of that 09:45:31 <TrueBrain> it is just bad defaults, basically 09:46:39 * andythenorth reading https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/7872 09:46:41 <Eddi|zuHause> tropic rainforests might be easier if there were a way to generate good rivers :p 09:47:07 <andythenorth> oh 7 tickets about it Samu made a list :) 09:47:10 <andythenorth> oh dear 09:47:25 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause $somebody had a patch 09:47:30 <andythenorth> I even tested it 09:47:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but it got out of hand... 09:47:44 <andythenorth> things do 09:47:53 <Eddi|zuHause> we need river tiles on arbitrary slopes 09:48:28 <reldred> I've been doing a lot of screwing around with heightmaps lately and a couple of things I thought of; ability to control the height at which rainforest kicks in, ability to control the distance from river/ocean before desert kicks in. 09:48:49 <Eddi|zuHause> more settings! :p 09:48:57 <reldred> I mean, doesn't help out newbie players. Sensible defaults would be good. 09:49:02 <TrueBrain> I do not remember that maps were this flat .. is that the new height that causes it? 09:49:19 <TrueBrain> yeah, it is 09:49:27 <TrueBrain> did someone forget to scale something ? 09:49:43 <andythenorth> I will look 09:49:53 <andythenorth> it has been diagnosed before by multiple people 09:50:05 <Eddi|zuHause> a combination of weird TGP special cases, the later added variety curves, and the new heightlevels 09:50:08 <TrueBrain> when I change it back to 15 or so, it is much more what I remember :) 09:50:13 <reldred> Yeah, max height 255, alpinist, no variety distrib, maps are super flat. 09:50:49 <reldred> that was 256x1024, doing a 2048x2048 now 09:51:10 <Eddi|zuHause> iirc the original TGP was doing some extra adjustments on arctic/tropic that might now work against each other 09:51:13 <reldred> Yeah that was more of the same. Tallest mountain I found was height level 48 09:51:16 <andythenorth> so MHL was 2014 09:51:44 <andythenorth> iirc there is some clamp somewhere in variety curves that flattens the map 09:51:53 <andythenorth> but eh, hazy memory 09:51:56 <reldred> Found a mountain @ 58, but no rainforests are generating on them. 09:51:57 <Eddi|zuHause> but original TGP is some very odd code quality, so everyone who tried to understand it got lost 09:52:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that includes me and PeterN 09:52:20 <TrueBrain> took me weeks to take TGP as it was presented to a mergeable state :P 09:52:52 <andythenorth> specific to tropic https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7340/files#diff-8463692a54e306b04c06accf493308970b084cc1a2d09c9d93160ba0dc283924 09:52:56 <Eddi|zuHause> who was TGP author? RichK? 09:53:04 <andythenorth> * Half of tiles should be at lowest (0..25%) heights */ sticks out to me as offending 09:53:11 <TrueBrain> it was a dude that put his name in every patch ... cannot remember who, sadly 09:53:20 <andythenorth> like...if you pull half the tiles down and have large flat areas 09:53:34 <reldred> God I remember when TGP first hit. 09:53:34 <TrueBrain> as in, TGP was littered with comments naming the person who wrote it :P 09:53:37 <andythenorth> that anchors the entire map 09:53:45 <reldred> Seemed god damn magical back in the day I gotta admit 09:53:54 <andythenorth> it's better than original 09:54:03 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD revormed with TGP hitting master :) 09:54:06 <Eddi|zuHause> it does its job pretty good, but it's not extendable 09:54:18 <reldred> Everything was very square in the original map gen 09:54:23 <TrueBrain> it was when some people "in power" lost power, and the dynamic of OpenTTD changed drasticly :) 09:54:30 <TrueBrain> it was when I created a "devs-only" channel :P 09:54:33 <TrueBrain> fun times :D 09:55:15 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 09:55:16 <TrueBrain> before the game just froze when generating maps 09:55:22 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 09:55:26 <TrueBrain> after that you got this nice dialog showing progress 09:55:31 <andythenorth> since variety distribution was added I fail to understand how the settings relate to result 09:55:32 <TrueBrain> damn, that was technically very tricky to pull off 09:55:38 <andythenorth> eddi has to explain it to me every time 09:55:50 <andythenorth> but eh, let's stick to today's PR 09:55:58 <reldred> Ummm, I know turning variety distribution up results in smoother map and down results in crunchier map. 09:56:12 <andythenorth> it also affects whether you get hills or not 09:56:12 <reldred> crunchy maps = good as far as I'm concerned. 09:56:15 <Eddi|zuHause> iirc PeterN was about to rip out the variety distribution again, and reimplement with perlin noise 09:56:34 <TrueBrain> well, what-ever we do, the current defaults are just shitty 09:56:40 <Eddi|zuHause> but the perlin noise implementation in TGP was... not extendable 09:56:40 <TrueBrain> even for temperate .. 09:57:15 <TrueBrain> I btw never really understood why we needed more height-levels :P 09:57:27 <TrueBrain> slopes aren't exactly fun to deal with :P 09:57:39 <reldred> Past 255? I don't see any point til we can get RCT style cliffs. 09:57:45 <TrueBrain> past 15 09:57:50 <reldred> Oh 09:57:57 <Eddi|zuHause> 32 or 48 works pretty well 09:58:03 <reldred> I use past 15 religiously. 09:58:09 <Eddi|zuHause> beyond that is... unpractical 09:58:11 <TrueBrain> the default is 30, so I imagine :P 09:58:18 <TrueBrain> yeah, okay, I can see 48 .. just not 255 :D 09:58:56 <Eddi|zuHause> well, 255 was the next logical step on a technical level. 09:59:06 <reldred> Sometimes depends on the heightmap too. I generally use 63/127. Sometimes 255. Whatever I need to get the terrain I want out of the heightmap I'm using. 09:59:31 <reldred> Currently using a lot of Cpt.K's heightmaps. 09:59:42 <Timberwolf> I like using ~32 on a large and relatively sparse map. 10:00:05 <Timberwolf> The aim is to get 1 or 2 mountains which are impassable and have to be worked around. 10:00:17 <TrueBrain> I guess none of those maps are 256x256 :D 10:00:18 <reldred> I like mountain ranges that *are* unpractical, I like it to be an obstacle I have to work around. Otherwise it may as well be flat terrain if it's not a challenge. 10:00:32 <reldred> I usually use 1:4 or 1:2 ratio maps 10:00:50 <reldred> And 5x train cargo weight modifier 10:01:12 <andythenorth> it's gonna be big maps? 10:01:17 <Eddi|zuHause> there's this weird stretching on 1:4 maps 10:01:29 <andythenorth> I never see any high heights, I play 256x512 or less 10:01:32 <andythenorth> but eh 10:01:37 <Eddi|zuHause> all the mountains are squished along the longer map edge 10:02:01 <reldred> CptK's Broad Channel, at 256x1024, max height 255. 10:02:04 <reldred> Punitive. 10:02:06 <reldred> Horrible. 10:02:13 <reldred> My favorite <3 10:02:46 <TrueBrain> right, so after TGP has done its Perlin Noise, it get a MaxHeight depending on map size, and clamps everything between 0 and that value 10:03:13 <andythenorth> this sounds identical to what peter found 10:03:20 <andythenorth> hurrha 10:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, and there's some weird scaling applied, that flattens mountain tops 10:03:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and other weird scalings on tropic and arctic 10:03:34 <TrueBrain> it clamps .. no scaling :P 10:03:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i tried to work through TGP multiple times 10:03:59 <TrueBrain> on flat maps at 1kx1k, highest peak should be 14 high 10:04:00 <TrueBrain> snow is at 15 10:04:07 <Eddi|zuHause> there was an issue where it wouldn't ever generate height 15 10:04:15 <TrueBrain> I can see this being an issue :D 10:04:36 <Eddi|zuHause> back when 15 was max 10:05:51 <TrueBrain> code is just weird too :D First it normalizes towards the max-height, next it clamps it again to max-height 10:05:53 <TrueBrain> pro-move :D 10:05:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i think PeterN came to the conclusion that it needs a complete rewrite, then he disappeared again 10:06:11 <LordAro> and everyone was sad 10:06:43 <TrueBrain> I simply disagree with TGPGetMaxHeight having hard-coded "max-height" values 10:06:48 <TrueBrain> that works against what I expected it to do 10:06:56 <andythenorth> LordAro got "everyone was sad" into one nice line here https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6337#issuecomment-476414106 10:07:03 <TrueBrain> as in, I expected that higher height-levels would create higher mountains 10:07:06 <TrueBrain> but it does not 10:07:10 <andythenorth> it does not 10:07:19 <TrueBrain> higher max-height-levels just allows fr them, but that is it 10:07:30 <andythenorth> you have to build your own 10:08:00 <LordAro> andythenorth: hehe 10:08:03 <TrueBrain> is it just me, or should is just scale with the max-height-level? 10:08:13 <LordAro> TrueBrain: try it! 10:08:32 <andythenorth> https://images.app.goo.gl/MsWut3HTWw6wyRee7 10:09:07 <reldred> Link the tropic rainforest height to the same UI snowlevel height while you're at it? Then rename the UI widget in the map generation window to reflect it? 10:09:24 <TrueBrain> reldred: no 10:09:25 <TrueBrain> :D 10:09:30 <reldred> :'( 10:09:57 <reldred> At the moment it just greys out. 10:10:28 <TrueBrain> make a PR for it! :) 10:10:38 <reldred> D: 10:10:50 <reldred> please don't make me program 10:11:00 <TrueBrain> please don't make me fix 10 bugs at once :P 10:11:05 <reldred> Fair cop 10:11:55 <reldred> I can respect that. I'm still putting off writing so many grf's... 10:12:35 <reldred> I'm not sure I can withstand the psychic damage of creating any new grf's. Updating/fixing old ones was bad enough. 10:13:01 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> is it just me, or should is just scale with the max-height-level? <-- i feel like we probably discussed that when merging more heightlevels. might want to look that up :) 10:13:04 *** blathijs has quit IRC 10:13:19 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: you suggest I go read backlogs of 10 years ago? :D 10:18:25 <TrueBrain> so we have 2 mechanisms that are working against each other: on one hand we say: this is the max height, and here is the snow level. On the other hand we have: for small maps, we shouldn't make mountains too high 10:18:32 <TrueBrain> that is pretty much a contradictory on its own :) 10:19:51 <reldred> Sensible defaults first, once the users have figured out what they're doing beyond defaults open it up to their preference. I mean I like stupid mountains even on tiny maps. Some people like biiiig wide open flat maps. 10:22:38 <TrueBrain> okay ... how does tropical decide where to put the desert line .. lets find the piece of code for that :D 10:23:16 <reldred> From what I can tell its two/three tiles out from any river, and five/six tiles out from any ocean. 10:23:17 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 10:23:49 <reldred> Until some arbitrary height that's calculated from the maxheight. 10:24:21 <TrueBrain> 1/4th of the max height 10:24:33 <reldred> Makes sense. 10:24:56 <TrueBrain> so for one we have a configurable snow-height, for the other we have a 1/4th height 10:25:43 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 10:26:20 <Eddi|zuHause> there's also some weird scaling for newgrf-defined snow height 10:27:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i feel like what would be more sensible is a "fraction of map area that is desert" 10:27:37 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of defining it by height 10:28:01 <Eddi|zuHause> which might make it behave more like sea level 10:28:33 <TrueBrain> that doesn't solve the current problem; a flat map would than either be full desert or full tropical ;) 10:28:58 <TrueBrain> there has to be a reasonable amount of height difference in those maps 10:29:08 <TrueBrain> flat simply doesn't make any sense, from a gameplay perspective 10:29:36 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's true for sea level as well 10:29:50 <Eddi|zuHause> it jumps from 5% to 80% water 10:30:06 <TrueBrain> aren't both the same problem? 10:30:43 <Eddi|zuHause> pretty much 10:31:28 <Eddi|zuHause> you would need fractional heightlevels to find a more accurate line to split 10:31:55 <TrueBrain> hmm .. this result looks a lot better .. I just add the snow-line-height to the max-allowed-tgp level for artic 10:31:59 <TrueBrain> this means very flat is .. not flat 10:32:00 <Eddi|zuHause> which perlin noise could provide 10:32:04 <TrueBrain> but has like 5% snow 10:32:17 <Eddi|zuHause> but you need to do that in an intermediate step which TGP doesn't expose 10:32:18 <TrueBrain> it is a cheesy solution, but it seems to work 10:32:42 <TrueBrain> I am not looking into writing another map generator :) I am looking into how to fix defaults to be less ... weird 10:33:49 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 10:38:31 <TrueBrain> snow-line-height is arctic only, not? 10:40:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] erenes opened pull request #79: downgraded chardet to 3.0.4 to fix compatibility issue with aiohttp, … https://git.io/JLxJJ 10:44:30 <TrueBrain> lol @ max-height table .. it used to make sense, as in, that the steps were always bigger than the step before 10:44:36 <TrueBrain> but with this new table, it is all over the place 10:45:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] erenes updated pull request #79: Revert chardet to 3.0.4 to fix compatibility issue with aiohttp, … https://git.io/JLxJJ 10:47:42 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: that's what you get when people try to fix issues on a surface level 10:48:10 <TrueBrain> yeah, it is all a bit out of whack now 10:48:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that's how PeterN came to his conclusion that it needs a rewrite 10:49:09 <TrueBrain> sadly, that is a conclusion we can draw from many bugs we have :P 10:49:13 <TrueBrain> doesn't really solve the here and now :D 10:49:31 <TrueBrain> tropic is funny, even on Alpinist there are almost no mountains 10:49:45 <TrueBrain> guess that makes some-what sense on some level 10:50:20 <Eddi|zuHause> variety distribution tends to eliminate a lot of mountains 10:54:50 <andythenorth> the PR I put in for tropic does improve the current state 10:54:54 <andythenorth> but I would say that eh :) 10:56:06 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7340 10:56:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on pull request #79: Revert chardet to 3.0.4 to fix compatibility issue with aiohttp, … https://git.io/JLxUt 10:56:30 <TrueBrain> you keep linking your own PR 10:56:35 <TrueBrain> is there something you want to tell us? :) 10:57:05 <andythenorth> dunno 10:57:28 <andythenorth> it's not like I did anything clever, I just reduced the fragmentation 10:57:55 <andythenorth> swapped "this clearly doesn't work" for "this might be better and is just reusing existing thing" 10:58:31 <andythenorth> I don't think it's a permanent solution :) 11:08:42 <TrueBrain> but it doesn't solve the problem of default settings ;) 11:08:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8513: Fix: for arctic and tropic, make sure we have at least a few hills https://git.io/JLxTc 11:09:19 <TrueBrain> this does ^^, but it is a stopgap solution, and a compromise between all the bad things :P 11:11:07 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 11:11:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 11:12:56 <TrueBrain> let's build a preview so people can experiment a bit 11:13:05 <andythenorth> +1 11:13:06 <TrueBrain> but the more you do, the more issues you notice :D 11:13:12 <andythenorth> I was about to pull it, but wasm ftw 11:17:58 *** tokai has quit IRC 11:20:30 <TrueBrain> if a PR takes that many words to explain, you know there is something else wrong :P :D 11:48:09 *** DasPoseidon has joined #openttd 11:52:22 * andythenorth considers newgrf 11:52:56 <TrueBrain> https://preview.openttd.org/pr8513/ in case you want to give it a test-run :) 11:54:45 * andythenorth wonders how to scroll minimap 11:54:45 <TrueBrain> you will have to set the snow-line-height to 10 yourself if you ever opened any preview btw :) 11:54:47 <andythenorth> I should read the manual 11:55:42 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: that once again proves what an unmaintainable mess TGP has become 11:56:02 <TrueBrain> you just repeating words now Eddi|zuHause :) 11:56:28 <Eddi|zuHause> some words are worth repeating :p 11:57:10 <andythenorth> does player have to fund lumber mills? 11:57:15 <andythenorth> I'm not getting any 11:57:18 <andythenorth> wiki doesn't say 11:57:30 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/Base%20Set/Industries/Lumber%20Mill 11:57:40 <andythenorth> oh it does 11:57:44 <andythenorth> ok that's fine 11:57:52 <TrueBrain> "Lumber mills are a special industry that are not generated automatically but can only be funded by the player." :) 11:58:02 <andythenorth> that will be the clue yes 11:58:07 <andythenorth> if only someone had read it 11:58:10 <TrueBrain> :D 11:58:24 <TrueBrain> enable text-to-speech, that will make the wiki say it :D 11:58:25 <andythenorth> maps seem 'fine' 11:58:32 <andythenorth> like...nothing is broken 11:58:36 <andythenorth> forests are getting built 11:58:42 <andythenorth> I only tried 256x256 default 11:58:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i've ever played tropic long enough to fund one 11:58:50 <TrueBrain> that was the aim :) It is far from perfect, but it also doesn't break anything :P 11:59:12 <TrueBrain> the bigger the map, the better it gets, honestly 11:59:56 <TrueBrain> on 64x64, nothing works :P 12:00:13 <TrueBrain> why did I make the minimal size 64 again? Most have been high :P 12:00:25 <TrueBrain> 128x128 already looks good, that surprises me 12:00:26 <andythenorth> no FF, I don't want to kill the script :P 12:00:28 <andythenorth> it's just map gen 12:00:35 <Eddi|zuHause> on very flat maps you could move the baseline to just around the snowline, at the cost of having no sea level tiles 12:01:42 <TrueBrain> I see more possibilities to improve it, but we already agree'd someone should just rewrite it :D 12:03:32 <TrueBrain> seeing 64x64 maps makes me want to revive head-to-head branch .. that was fun, 4 players on their own 64x64 map (on a single server), trying to make as much money as they could in a short amount of time :D 12:04:24 <andythenorth> you're not tempted to downstream the 16k x 16k patch? 12:05:40 <TrueBrain> none 12:05:52 <TrueBrain> initial I did want to allow a max-size, as in, that you could have 16k by 256, for example 12:05:58 <TrueBrain> but that is complicated to show in an UI 12:06:03 <andythenorth> confirmed 64x64 is a sad time for arctic and tropic 12:06:10 <andythenorth> on defaults 12:06:13 <TrueBrain> but a 16k x 16k map is just silly for a 1-thread game 12:06:30 <andythenorth> does the 64x64 case matter really? 12:06:53 <TrueBrain> nope 12:06:56 <TrueBrain> always have been broken 12:06:58 <TrueBrain> always will be broken 12:07:50 <andythenorth> ok, we need someone more exhaustive than me if we want valid tests :P 12:08:04 <andythenorth> but wfm 12:09:37 <TrueBrain> maybe reldred wants to take a look too :) 12:10:54 <reldred> What am I doing? 12:12:15 <TrueBrain> testing the map-generator fixes in https://preview.openttd.org/pr8513/ :P 12:12:19 <TrueBrain> arctic and tropics 12:13:33 <andythenorth> where is samu? 12:13:36 <andythenorth> le oof 12:19:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8048: Path is not released, after it was reserved through another train causing a crash https://git.io/JvQtG 12:21:06 <TrueBrain> how to reproduce an issue you only have a mp4 off .. hmm 12:21:15 <andythenorth> did I do it? 12:21:40 <TrueBrain> random question; no clue how to answer :) 12:21:48 <TrueBrain> did you reproduce it? I dunno 12:21:51 <TrueBrain> did you make an mp4? I dunno 12:21:58 <TrueBrain> did you have lunch? I dunno 12:21:59 <TrueBrain> :D 12:24:59 *** Samu has joined #openttd 12:28:23 <TrueBrain> return RandomRange(pass + 1); // Randomise deceased passengers. 12:28:29 <TrueBrain> haha, I did not know it was randomized 12:28:30 <TrueBrain> lol 12:28:34 <TrueBrain> just a full random :) 12:32:17 <andythenorth> and a driver? 12:32:48 <TrueBrain> + 1 is I think to change 0..N) to 1..N] 12:33:00 <Timberwolf> newgrf variable for "vehicle safety" pls. ;) 12:33:05 <TrueBrain> haha :D 12:33:12 <TrueBrain> not a bad idea honestly :P 12:34:08 <reldred> As far as sensible defaults go arctic is looking good TrueBrain, Tropic I need to gen a few more and see how they look 12:34:23 <TrueBrain> if you don't mind, would love the feedback :) 12:34:24 <TrueBrain> tnx! 12:34:42 <reldred> Okay, 2nd map on Temperate quite a bit more promising 12:34:50 <reldred> Tropic, not temperate damnit 12:34:52 <reldred> lol 12:35:36 <reldred> So yeah, I think for default daisies you're looking pretty good now, anyone coming from or who has memories of TTD would be satisfied with those compared to previously. 12:35:43 <reldred> Now let's abuse it and see what happens >:D 12:35:56 <TrueBrain> take it to the limit! :D 12:39:11 <reldred> Okay, looks good on defaults, tropical however still has problems where the max mountain height never gets within an inch of max map height which then means no tropics again. 12:39:29 <reldred> Look, definitely a massive improvement on default settings for a new player. 12:41:22 <reldred> Being able to customise the tropics height level like you can the snow level would fix that I think and be pretty intuitive to anyone who's generated a few arctic maps 12:43:09 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i'm 90% certain the +1 is to include the driver 12:43:29 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I am 90% certain it is not, as train_cmd adds 2 more, of which I assume are the 2 drivers :D 12:43:35 <LordAro> hrm 12:43:37 <andythenorth> Timberwolf expose vehicle safety via 'variants' spec :P 12:43:39 <LordAro> fine::p 12:43:41 <TrueBrain> pass += 2; // driver 12:43:43 <TrueBrain> :D 12:43:46 <andythenorth> player can choose 'overspeed' or not 12:43:52 <andythenorth> is variants spec yet? 12:44:35 <TrueBrain> reldred: indeed, in extremes tropics still don't work .. but I leave that for someone else to fix I think :D Trying to get 1.11 ready :P 12:44:43 <TrueBrain> something something rabbit hole :) 12:44:54 <andythenorth> little ups 12:45:03 <TrueBrain> LordAro: on the other hand, my 0..N) -> 1..N] is bullshit, as the +1 is inside the () 12:45:09 <TrueBrain> so no clue what the + 1 is for ... 12:45:26 <TrueBrain> or trains have 3 drivers 12:45:28 <TrueBrain> that works :P 12:46:29 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: Red ones are faster but more dangerous? 12:46:45 <andythenorth> sounds like liveries 12:46:51 <andythenorth> and a recurring joke 12:47:02 <andythenorth> we can already do that with company colours :P 12:47:48 <andythenorth> vehicle variants demanded https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=88255 12:47:58 * andythenorth wonders what's wrong with the 'many IDs' route 12:48:52 <andythenorth> "it's too many clicks" say the players who want to double-click to build a vehicle, click to open a menu, click to open a tab, double click to make a choice, click to another tab, double-click another choice, click to another tab, double-click another choice, then close the window 12:49:00 <andythenorth> [I elided the scrolling clicks] 12:50:10 * andythenorth fails to provide context again, let's have more coffee and be a better person ( 12:50:50 <reldred> TrueBrain: Probably the only other suggestion I'd have is to make map borders: random the default. It's still in the spirit of TTD but really flexes that OpenTTD has *more to offer* 12:51:08 <reldred> Esp. with the terra genesis map generator anyway 12:52:42 <TrueBrain> I think we need someone to sit down and work out how map generator v3 should look and work :) 12:52:59 <TrueBrain> including all the bits and pieces I read today of things that should/could be improved :) 12:53:06 <andythenorth> peter concluded just use heightmaps from external landscape generators 12:53:10 <andythenorth> like world machine etc 12:53:15 <andythenorth> like...just ship a lot of pngs 12:53:19 <TrueBrain> awh, my URLs to my mapgens no longer work 12:53:19 <andythenorth> random choice 12:53:20 <TrueBrain> SAD 12:53:44 <TrueBrain> I once got to the point you could enter coordinates, and it would generate an ingame map for you based no the real world situation 12:53:47 <TrueBrain> that was fun :D 12:53:51 <reldred> You'd really need to work in some sort of preview 12:54:03 <TrueBrain> back then, processing 20GB of map data ...was a lot of data .. now it is laughable :P 12:54:06 <reldred> That's the big problem with heightmaps atm 12:54:29 <TrueBrain> reldred: nobody made a (simple) tool for that, like a webpage or anything? 12:54:59 <reldred> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 12:55:04 <andythenorth> wasm P 12:55:26 <andythenorth> GHA wasm screenshots, per frosch's idea 12:55:36 <TrueBrain> sometimes I am surprised people didn't fix some simple stuff, but enormous complex shit people have tools for :D 12:55:51 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you say words; no clue what they mean :P 12:55:52 <TrueBrain> sorry :) 12:56:21 <andythenorth> for each heightmap on bananas, load it into a wasm preview, then generate a screenshot, and save it to bananaanaas 12:57:05 <andythenorth> I mean...it doesn't have to be wasm probably, that was just what frosch voiced an idea for 12:57:14 <TrueBrain> that can be done with anything, but yes :) 12:57:21 <TrueBrain> screenshots in general of content would be nice :) 13:06:05 * andythenorth dares to write some nml 13:06:21 <andythenorth> randomised ship colours experiment 13:06:30 <reldred> I reckon I'm gonna have a crack at m4nfo next 13:06:35 <reldred> just to be spicy 13:06:41 <reldred> just to be a little different 13:07:12 <reldred> and because I kinda feel bad that michael blunck has been trying to convince me to use it now for at least half a decade or more. 13:07:29 <andythenorth> it is picking up quite a bit of traction now 13:07:37 <andythenorth> due to JGR and the extended newgrf spec 13:08:03 <reldred> The JGR Cinematic Universe? 13:08:17 <andythenorth> I can't use m4nfo, I've had too many unpleasant interactions with MB 13:08:25 <andythenorth> I did consider switching 13:08:54 <reldred> Eh, I've never really had a problem with michael 13:09:14 <reldred> and oh boy, I've had a lot of problems with a lot of people in the ttd community over the years 13:09:54 <reldred> I mean I was dead set against bananas for the longest time, didn't help that someone uploaded a bunch of my stuff without my permission. 13:10:47 <andythenorth> people's gonna people 13:10:48 <andythenorth> etc 13:11:26 <reldred> well, been in this community sixteen years, I joined when I was 15/16. 13:11:30 <TrueBrain> lol .. so we broke AIs in 1.9, and didn't add the compatibility layer for it? Sad ... 13:11:51 <reldred> Road building? 13:12:00 <TrueBrain> CreateGroups got a parameter added 13:12:06 <TrueBrain> but I don't see compatibility code for it :D 13:12:26 <TrueBrain> that is not very nice 13:14:08 <TrueBrain> owh, wait, nevermind 13:14:15 <TrueBrain> I was looking at this the inverted way 13:14:20 *** LinuxUser has joined #openttd 13:15:04 <TrueBrain> yeah, the bug was in my setup :D oops :) 13:16:25 <TrueBrain> can't believe I have to wait 50 ingame years to possibly reproduce a bug ... 13:17:40 <LinuxUser> Hi everyone, hoping for a bit of install advice please. I'm running Lunix Mint on an old laptop and I wanted to install OpenTTD. I see it's available in the Software Manager but it's not the latest version (currently 1.7.1). Once installed, can you update the game from within, or should I install the latest from the OpenTTD webpage? 13:18:02 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD does (currently) not support self-updating 13:18:21 <TrueBrain> additionally, distributing Linux binaries is really difficult over all the different flavours (with different library-versions) 13:18:31 <TrueBrain> so we don't have a version for Mint 13:18:50 <TrueBrain> you either have to compile it yourself (ugh), or hope one of the debian variants "just works" 13:19:10 <TrueBrain> but also, might be good to ask Mint maintainers why they are 3 years behind :D 13:20:07 <LinuxUser> Ah, ok. I'm a Linux 'newbie' and thanks to the lockdown I can't access my Win10 laptop. I struggle installing stuff let alone compiling! :) 13:20:35 <TrueBrain> well, despite 1.10.3 being better, of course, 1.7.1 isn't that bad either :) 13:20:43 <reldred> Mint is just Ubuntu, if there's ubuntu packages they'll work on Mint. 13:20:44 <TrueBrain> just joining multiplayer will be difficult 13:20:58 <TrueBrain> reldred: we have 4 versions of Ubuntu .. there is no "just" when it comes to Linux :) 13:21:01 <TrueBrain> but yeah, you can try :) 13:21:24 <TrueBrain> https://www.openttd.org/downloads/openttd-releases/latest.html, select "Linux", pick one you like most, and hope for the best :) 13:21:28 <reldred> Yeah, obvs. you want to go for the version your version of mint is based off. 13:21:33 <LinuxUser> Excellent, I'll see what Ubuntu one isa available. As you say worth a try :) 13:22:05 <reldred> What version of mint you running? 13:22:51 <LinuxUser> 32-bit - let me check the version number one sec 13:23:03 <andythenorth> hmm HTH do I use random_bits in nml? 13:23:15 <TrueBrain> 45341235473452 13:23:17 <TrueBrain> pick one :) 13:23:19 <TrueBrain> :D :P 13:23:21 <TrueBrain> sorry :P 13:23:40 <LinuxUser> 19.3 (Tricia) 13:23:57 <andythenorth> maybe I'll just pick them out with some hex 13:23:59 <andythenorth> I have NFI 13:24:26 <reldred> Probably forked off Bionic then if it's 32bit. Try the Ubuntu Bionic 32bit LinuxUser 13:24:46 <andythenorth> maybe getbits is my friend 13:24:47 <LinuxUser> Thanks reldred I'll look it up 13:25:15 <reldred> And yessss, I was right. Package base for all Mint 19.x is Ubuntu Bionic. 13:25:28 <reldred> https://www.linuxmint.com/download_all.php 13:25:57 <reldred> Mint 20 moved to Ubuntu Focal and probably dropped 32bit support like Ubuntu did. 13:26:07 <TrueBrain> 1972, and the game is already slowing down .. ugh .. 30 more years to fast-forward :P 13:26:09 <reldred> Which explains why you'd still be on Mint 19 then. 13:26:25 <LinuxUser> Linux Ubuntu Bionic 18.04 (i386, 32 bit) - Found it :) 13:26:35 <reldred> Bingo bango bongo 13:26:44 <reldred> good luck have fun 13:27:06 <LinuxUser> Thanks for all your help guys! Have a good one!! 13:27:31 <TrueBrain> enjoy the game :) 13:27:49 <LinuxUser> Cheers! 13:28:11 *** LinuxUser has quit IRC 13:29:55 <andythenorth> 10k nml lines of recolour sprites 13:29:58 <andythenorth> probably fine, right? 13:30:09 <reldred> wcgw? 13:30:27 <reldred> alas I must retreat to the smaller internet 13:30:34 <andythenorth> it's more portable 13:31:13 <Eddi|zuHause> same procedure as last year? 13:33:27 <reldred> Gotta admit I’m really liking cloudirc. Irc on the mobile even with bouncers was always a pain in the ass 13:33:30 <Samu> TrueBrain, https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7947#issuecomment-755980482 you're mistaken, 2nd commit was "Change: Allow to build dock on clearable watered object tiles", it was described 13:33:47 <Samu> now it's gone because you removed it 13:36:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8048: Path is not released, after it was reserved through another train causing a crash https://git.io/JvQtG 13:36:39 <Samu> here's a history before the force push https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/42c9a11c0b99d2edbe8928dbaf7005e602178ac1 13:36:42 <andythenorth> but why was it there? 13:36:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8048: Path is not released, after it was reserved through another train causing a crash https://git.io/JvQtG 13:37:03 <TrueBrain> Samu: so you consider that a description? Boy .... you and I live in very different worlds 13:37:32 <TrueBrain> I especially appreciated you sneaking that into a PR claiming to fix a completely different problem 13:37:40 <TrueBrain> that really helps .. /s ;) 13:37:55 <Samu> they suggested me to do like that 13:38:05 <TrueBrain> because you already sneaked it into a single commit 13:38:08 <TrueBrain> which was worse :P 13:38:15 <TrueBrain> pretty sure they were as confused then as I was now :) 13:38:26 <TrueBrain> you make it so difficult for us to review any of your PRs 13:38:31 <TrueBrain> it takes like 10 times more time than any other PR 13:39:02 <TrueBrain> often they contain random unrelated changes, things you didn't explain, things that have no relation to what you explain, etc 13:39:10 <TrueBrain> but we have told you this so many times now .... :) 13:39:57 <Samu> i thought it was related, it was about fixing costs for building docks 13:40:35 <TrueBrain> so a builder comes to your house to fix a window. He also noticed your toilet has a piece chipped off, so he removes the toilet 13:40:38 <TrueBrain> it was related 13:41:23 <TrueBrain> make PRs do 1 thing, and make them do it well. Document them well, test them well, be proud of the PR. Don't make PR do 10 things, have poor documentation, or have them only tested for your very specific use-case 13:43:20 <TrueBrain> as really, how "fixing cost" relates to "being able to build", is not something I can comprehend .. 13:44:02 <TrueBrain> it is very easy to make 20 shitty PRs .. it takes about as much time as to create a single good one 13:44:25 <andythenorth> don't do this :P https://github.com/andythenorth/unsinkable-sam/commit/ffd82796d8bd8d433f680959b1104d675a98608c 13:44:35 <andythenorth> or if you do, make content, not PRs for vanilla 13:44:53 <TrueBrain> holy crap andythenorth , no, don't do that :P 13:45:05 <TrueBrain> that commit message alone :D 13:45:07 <andythenorth> it's ok to inflict madness on yourself 13:45:11 <andythenorth> 1 person project 13:45:11 <TrueBrain> you knew what you were doing wrong there :P 13:45:16 <andythenorth> exactly 13:45:24 <TrueBrain> can't believe you followed a commit message style for that :D 13:45:31 <andythenorth> that just increases the lol 13:45:37 <andythenorth> 'look at my diligence' 13:45:37 <TrueBrain> hahaha :) Owh, this is a perfect example, tnx :D 13:45:44 <andythenorth> I was saving it up 13:45:49 <TrueBrain> reminds me of commit messages like: "did stuff" 13:45:51 <TrueBrain> "fixed more things" 13:45:55 <andythenorth> the typos are the cherry on top 13:45:56 <TrueBrain> "unbroke the game" 13:45:57 <reldred> Don’t ever look at my GitHub then... 13:46:12 <andythenorth> 'fixed unrelated typos becuase I noticed them' 13:46:13 <TrueBrain> reldred: it is fine if nobody has to review them :) 13:46:22 <Xaroth> the string concatenation alone is making me shudder :P 13:46:30 <andythenorth> oh and I ran black :) 13:46:33 *** glx has joined #openttd 13:46:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 13:46:37 <andythenorth> but I didn't mention that 13:46:40 <reldred> Just me a year later trying to figure out wtf was wrong with me 13:46:57 <TrueBrain> everyones worst enemy .. you of a year ago :D 13:47:04 <andythenorth> "Change: fixed stuff; ran black over entire codebase; moved to python 3" 13:47:05 <Samu> very well, i'll make a separate PR for it 13:47:05 <TrueBrain> (not you you, but you you, you get what I mean :D) 13:47:06 <andythenorth> ideal commit 13:47:30 <TrueBrain> Samu: and it better be well documented! :) 13:47:40 <Samu> that's the harder part 13:47:50 <TrueBrain> programming is more than C++ :) 13:48:07 <andythenorth> oof ships are annoying 13:48:27 <TrueBrain> as in this case, I am sure in your world "clearable watered object tiles" makes total sense .. but really, wtf does it even mean :P 13:48:39 <Samu> rocks on water 13:48:52 <Samu> requires newgrf objects 13:49:09 <TrueBrain> so things like that, including a savegame to show it, are pretty much mandatory for such PRs 13:49:35 <TrueBrain> and yes, that is a lot of work for very few lines 13:49:49 <TrueBrain> if you check any of my PRs as of late .. I spend more time documenting why I changed something, then I spend on the change itself 13:50:03 <TrueBrain> take https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8512 alone 13:50:13 <TrueBrain> the fix was simple .. but boy, it requires some backstory for someone else to agree with that 13:50:55 <TrueBrain> if I want my PRs to be reviewed smoothly, I have to put in the effort that the reviewer can understand what is happening, without reading alllll the code himself too 13:51:27 <andythenorth> so I have some nice code for subtly randomising wagon company colours 13:51:35 <andythenorth> "nice' = 10k lines of sprites but eh 13:51:46 <andythenorth> I thought it would be nice for ships, but it isn't :( 13:51:47 <andythenorth> https://grf.farm/images/oof_ship_randomised_cc.png 13:52:07 <glx> hmm I may need to update commit messages in #8032 13:52:14 <andythenorth> because they're not directly next to each other, the randomisation isn't really noticed 13:52:17 <TrueBrain> it is smooth andythenorth , it is not bad :) 13:52:26 <TrueBrain> gives a bit more colour to the game, honestly 13:52:52 <andythenorth> it's not bad, but it's not enough :) 13:53:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge updated pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS https://git.io/JkqLt 13:53:23 <andythenorth> hmm maybe I can paint the vehicle name on the ship 13:53:37 <andythenorth> can I have in-game sprite editing thx bai 13:53:50 <andythenorth> 'web service' 13:54:23 <TrueBrain> glx: in error_gui.cpp, you now change a 3 second timer into a 1 second timer 13:54:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but, if you notice it, it wasn't subtle enough 13:54:29 <andythenorth> yes 13:54:30 <TrueBrain> meaning error messages only stay 5 seconds, instead of the 15 seconds now 13:54:38 <andythenorth> foreground is background etc 13:54:43 <glx> they stay as specified in the options :) 13:54:48 <TrueBrain> glx: not sure there is a right solution :P 13:55:02 <TrueBrain> well, tooltip says "seconds", but it was never "seconds" :D 13:55:16 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause so to restate the goal, the point isn't 'notice my cool recolouring callback' 13:55:29 <andythenorth> the point is 'ship instances feel a bit more individualised' 13:55:47 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: lots of places where people said "20 days" but actually it was "50 days" because the game counted in 2.5 days units 13:55:57 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 13:56:03 <andythenorth> le snail_UES_ 13:56:20 <snail_UES_> hey andythenorrh 13:58:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JLxO0 13:59:53 <TrueBrain> wait, orudge , that works? That really is all that is needed? 14:02:26 <andythenorth> the grey ones are more distinct https://grf.farm/images/oof_ship_randomised_cc_2.png 14:02:57 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I really do like it; it is one of those gimmick things that make things feel more alive :) 14:03:14 <andythenorth> it's a keeper 14:03:24 <andythenorth> I might force some colours to be more contrast 14:03:31 <andythenorth> or have 3 variants, not 2 14:07:48 <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/33281491b16c566e26b05bb0a0d24f9cb7e2da77 <-- seems the "second" unit was added 10 years ago without real change in the behaviour 14:08:16 <TrueBrain> someone just claimed it was seconds :P 14:08:19 <glx> then the help string was added later 14:08:27 <orudge> TrueBrain: well, that won't be for a universal build. This is just to make sure the ARM64 build works first. 14:09:03 <TrueBrain> orudge: fair :) I still wonder about universal builds .... we will see :D 14:09:20 <orudge> vcpkg has been updated with the newer version of cmake, though I don't know if the same version is deployed on the GitHub servers or how it is cached 14:09:28 <orudge> so let's see what happens 14:09:54 <TrueBrain> pam pam pammmm 14:10:22 <supermop_Home> hi 14:11:00 <TrueBrain> glx: even in that version, it was never seconds :D (had to check, of course :D) 14:11:19 <TrueBrain> can't blame anyone from assuming it would be, tbh 14:12:23 <TrueBrain> I was thinking we could just rename the setting and really do make it seconds ... worst people go like: heh? Didn't I set this to NNN?! 14:12:24 <TrueBrain> :P 14:13:27 <glx> btw I like your suggestion for duration timer 14:14:28 <TrueBrain> a tiny bit more work, but worth it I think :) 14:14:40 <TrueBrain> hmm ... why can't I send this truck to a truck station?! NewGRFs confuse me 14:15:11 <andythenorth> articulated? 14:15:18 <TrueBrain> doesn't look like it 14:15:35 <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/JIxRFvT.png 14:15:38 <TrueBrain> the highlighted one 14:15:42 <TrueBrain> can only go to a pass-through stop 14:15:50 <andythenorth> articulated 14:16:01 <andythenorth> did we not fix the error message? 14:16:03 * andythenorth looks 14:16:10 <TrueBrain> how can I tell it is articulated? 14:16:30 <andythenorth> no 14:16:36 <TrueBrain> owh, when driving 14:16:43 <TrueBrain> and boy, that does look very ugly (sorry to say) 14:16:48 <andythenorth> from the buy menu, you have no clue 14:16:55 <TrueBrain> I must stop looking at that 14:17:07 <TrueBrain> owh boy, that looks VERY weird 14:17:18 <TrueBrain> this game is not build for that kind of animation 14:17:25 <andythenorth> nope 14:17:35 <TrueBrain> oef ...... 14:17:39 <TrueBrain> I cannot handle this set 14:17:45 <andythenorth> try Timberwolf's 14:17:56 <TrueBrain> error btw is: "vehicle can't go to that station" 14:17:57 <TrueBrain> that is it 14:18:01 <TrueBrain> no detail on what the issue is 14:18:06 <TrueBrain> confusing as fuck, I can tell you 14:18:22 <andythenorth> yeah I repro-ed 14:18:23 <TrueBrain> if I wouldn't have you, I would have removed it and just thought: what-ever, stupid game 14:18:48 <andythenorth> it's remarkable how many players we actually have :) 14:18:56 <TrueBrain> my problem with these articulated vehicles, they detach in corners 14:19:09 <TrueBrain> which makes me go: OWH NO!!!! 14:19:11 <TrueBrain> but they recover 14:19:25 <TrueBrain> especially in an U-turn, one part is still going the wrong way :D 14:19:33 <andythenorth> it's quite jarring? 14:19:35 <andythenorth> I am used to it 14:19:45 <TrueBrain> sorry, I know, lot of hard work goes into stuff like this, but boy .. this game was not made for these animations 14:19:50 <andythenorth> in newgrf done > perfection very often 14:20:07 <andythenorth> 10/8 sprites are also weird in turns 14:20:13 <andythenorth> don't even look at the long ships :P 14:20:19 <andythenorth> on canalas 14:20:25 <andythenorth> they clip nearby houses etc 14:20:34 <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/JIxTF77.png <- I mean ... 14:20:52 <andythenorth> ha complete detach 14:21:08 <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/JIxTUsM.png even worse 14:21:09 <andythenorth> "I just draw them" 14:21:29 <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/JIxU2pZ.png and now it is running away 14:21:49 <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/JIxUaGl.png clipped inside 14:22:04 <TrueBrain> I doubt we can blame the NewGRF for this .. I am afraid it is more the game doing shitty stuff 14:22:41 <andythenorth> reimplement as hovercraft? 14:22:50 <TrueBrain> as I said, I cannot watch this .. :P 14:22:51 <TrueBrain> ll 14:22:57 <andythenorth> triggered! 14:23:03 <andythenorth> stick to trains 14:27:04 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: the NewGRF can make this worse if their sprites are misaligned to the bounding box 14:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause> but yes, U-Turns are the worst 14:29:23 <andythenorth> I suspect Hog is misaligned 14:29:39 <andythenorth> for years I have been aligning sprites with the displayed bounding box (ctrl-B) 14:29:46 <andythenorth> but last year or so I learned that is wrong 14:30:06 <TrueBrain> :( 14:30:28 <TrueBrain> anyway, the set looks awesome .. just the game allows it to glitch too much :P 14:30:33 <andythenorth> I have had it explained to me multiple times, but I am just a bit dense about some ideas 14:30:42 <TrueBrain> disallow-90-degree-turns for RVs?! :D 14:30:43 <andythenorth> like...I see a bounding box, so I align the sprite with it 14:31:13 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably fine with / and \ views, but | and – are ... special 14:31:30 <TrueBrain> this was always the case btw .. it is funny how much bigger busses get in the | and - 14:31:40 <andythenorth> no it's wrong for \ and / also 14:31:46 <TrueBrain> less noticeable :) 14:32:14 <Eddi|zuHause> there's also some weirdness with "we moved the bounding box to the center of the [shortened] vehicle, but tried to move the anchor point back to not break old grfs 14:33:08 <andythenorth> these might still be wrong https://grf.farm/images/bounding_lol_boxes.png 14:33:20 <andythenorth> but that was the result after peter told me how wrong the older version was 14:33:43 <andythenorth> previous version tried to place sprite more inside the box 14:34:29 <TrueBrain> wtf is OrderBackup, and do I care .. hmm 14:34:58 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i think that's when you sell a vehicle and immediately buy a new one, it gets the old order list back 14:35:11 <TrueBrain> ah, that would make sense, I guess 14:35:11 <TrueBrain> tnx 14:36:07 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:36:09 <Eddi|zuHause> (you lose the order list if you close the depot, or sell another vehicle) 14:37:52 <TrueBrain> okay, and implicit orders update themselves, that is nice 14:38:43 <TrueBrain> to fix a bug I have to change RemoveOrderFromAllVehicles to also allow removing orders of a single vehicle type 14:38:49 <TrueBrain> but this "All" is in there :P 14:39:02 <TrueBrain> guess I should rename it :P 14:39:46 <Eddi|zuHause> s/All/Many :) 14:42:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7972: Impossible/invalid orders aren't marked as such in the order list https://git.io/JvGub 14:45:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8514: Change: Allow to build dock on clearable watered object tiles https://git.io/JLxsA 14:48:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JvruE 14:52:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8514: Change: Allow to build dock on clearable watered object tiles https://git.io/JLxGl 14:54:24 <supermop_Home> TrueBrain in TTO that was the only thing keeping you sane when trying to replace old vehicles 14:56:21 <TrueBrain> wait, you are still sane? You don't belong here! We are all not sane in here! :D 14:56:41 <TrueBrain> glx: that looks nice, the error timer :D I am still annoyed by the 3-ish second thing :P 14:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, i'm pretty sure i've never met a sane person in my entire life 14:56:53 <TrueBrain> but also still no clue what we can do about it :) 14:59:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7972: Impossible/invalid orders aren't marked as such in the order list https://git.io/JvGub 15:01:39 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i think we should take a step back and look at it from a higher angle 15:02:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7972: Impossible/invalid orders aren't marked as such in the order list https://git.io/JvGub 15:03:12 <supermop_Home> TrueBrain maybe i was still sane in 1994 15:03:35 <TrueBrain> I always hope Eddi|zuHause is still typing after such comments, but often I notice he isn't :D 15:05:58 <Eddi|zuHause> sorry, i took a step back from the keyboard :p 15:07:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i'll type some thoughts in the ticket 15:08:04 <TrueBrain> :) 15:08:58 * andythenorth has concerns about lunch 15:09:04 *** ekangmonyet has quit IRC 15:09:25 <supermop_Home> go for a ploughman's 15:09:29 *** ekangmonyet has joined #openttd 15:09:31 <supermop_Home> can't lose 15:10:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8515: Fix: don't allow cloning vehicles if cloning orders is failing https://git.io/JLxZZ 15:10:28 <supermop_Home> late for lunch there isn't it? 15:10:30 <TrueBrain> at least I could partially fix the thing I found most annoying .. but by no means it fixes the issue 15:11:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7972: Impossible/invalid orders aren't marked as such in the order list https://git.io/JvGub 15:11:55 <orudge> TrueBrain: https://github.com/orudge/OpenTTD/runs/1662877336?check_suite_focus=true <-- for arm64, it just says "this check failed", no further output. Is that... normal? It seemse to have taken a long time to get the macOS builds building, I'm guessing they don't have a lot of build machines for macOS 15:12:01 *** roadt__ has quit IRC 15:12:26 <TrueBrain> orudge: for releases we indeed use a macos agent that is in beta 15:12:30 <TrueBrain> and it seems they don't have that many 15:12:40 <TrueBrain> so indeed, retrying is the only solution .. 15:12:49 <TrueBrain> you can also try downgrading to 10.13 I believe 15:12:58 *** roadt__ has joined #openttd 15:12:59 <orudge> Ah OK 15:12:59 <TrueBrain> they have more of those available 15:13:05 <TrueBrain> but I don't know the impact of this 15:13:13 <TrueBrain> the CI uses the old macos runners 15:13:25 <orudge> I think 11.0 is needed for arm64, though it might work on the 10.13 - depends on what xcode version is installed 15:13:32 <orudge> Will retry it 15:13:46 <TrueBrain> 10.15 is the old one 15:14:02 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/actions/virtual-environments/blob/main/images/macos/macos-10.15-Readme.md 15:14:12 <andythenorth> ok I have overlooked combining 1CC and 2CC with this randomisation 15:14:18 <andythenorth> 10k lines of sprites won't be enough 15:14:25 <TrueBrain> (and https://github.com/actions/virtual-environments/blob/main/images/macos/macos-11.0-Readme.md ) 15:14:26 <andythenorth> I need 160k lines, and some help with maths 15:19:21 <glx> TrueBrain: you may want to unlink #7972 from #8515 ;) 15:19:47 <Samu> i making void tiles flood the edge tiles instead of the tiles flooding themselves 15:20:20 <Samu> at least, all the flood code stays in one place 15:20:21 <TrueBrain> glx: lol "not fix" ... I added <!-- --> to make it not link :D 15:21:46 *** DasPoseidon has quit IRC 15:23:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8515: Fix: don't allow cloning vehicles if cloning orders is failing https://git.io/JLxnm 15:25:22 <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/JIyjZVB.png 15:25:25 <TrueBrain> I can do this 15:25:31 <TrueBrain> just the double spaces are annoying me :P 15:25:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7972: Impossible/invalid orders aren't marked as such in the order list https://git.io/JvGub 15:26:14 <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/JIykl7p.png lol .. 15:28:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7972: Impossible/invalid orders aren't marked as such in the order list https://git.io/JvGub 15:29:26 * TrueBrain uploaded an image: image.png (27KB) < http://tasks.synapse:8008/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.home.truebrain.nl/TnHvEKLHTmzQuUYpMKQryJKz > 15:29:32 <TrueBrain> wtf 15:29:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7972: Impossible/invalid orders aren't marked as such in the order list https://git.io/JvGub 15:29:52 <TrueBrain> good luck reaching that URL 15:29:55 <TrueBrain> no clue what my client did there :P 15:30:18 <TrueBrain> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1663690/103910732-771ce200-5105-11eb-8d08-ec485e41e55d.png <- I love how fucked up the order GUI is :D 15:30:21 <TrueBrain> but that is an old problem :P 15:36:04 <FLHerne> You should see the JGR version 15:37:14 <andythenorth> yes but players love it 15:37:19 <andythenorth> emoji 15:38:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8516: Fix #7972: show invalid orders to stations that don't accept your vehicle https://git.io/JLxcf 15:38:21 <TrueBrain> I love this fix .. it is really tiny :) 15:40:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8516: Fix #7972: show invalid orders to stations that don't accept your vehicle https://git.io/JLxcf 15:40:20 <TrueBrain> mandatory second push, because ... 15:41:56 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: Perhaps you should add a "(Station Removed)" string to the current invalid-order? 15:42:01 <milek7> trying to read that red text burns my eyes :P 15:42:07 <FLHerne> Actually, would just changing the string work? 15:42:13 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: the station is not removed; just the part this engine can go :) 15:42:47 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: I mean, for the case that's shown in red text before your patch 15:43:04 <TrueBrain> the "(invalid order)" after you completely removed a station? 15:43:11 <FLHerne> Yes 15:43:13 <TrueBrain> there are more routes that could lead to a dummy order 15:43:18 <TrueBrain> so that might not be trivial 15:43:33 <TrueBrain> (removing depots, waypoints, hangars, ..) 15:43:55 <FLHerne> Ok, <thing> removed, but then you have to know what <thing> was... 15:43:56 <TrueBrain> I am not against such change btw, but that is something for another PR I guess :) 15:44:00 <FLHerne> So yes 15:44:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #7972: Impossible/invalid orders aren't marked as such in the order list https://git.io/JvGub 15:44:57 <TrueBrain> (and yes, as people noticed all day: when I am fixing bugs, I am pretty much fixing the bug, not the other 10 things I find wrong surrounding it :D) 15:45:36 <TrueBrain> like this is the second bug on which I get the response: REWRITE THE WHOLE THING :P :P :D 15:45:58 <TrueBrain> I have 3 other huge features I would rather work on :D 15:46:28 <Eddi|zuHause> great. now i started up that game... 15:46:33 <andythenorth> also...rewrite fallacy 15:46:35 <TrueBrain> you only have yourself to blame :) 15:46:38 <Eddi|zuHause> should i actually play? :p 15:46:46 <TrueBrain> @random 1 2 15:46:49 <TrueBrain> bah, I disabled that :P 15:47:04 <Eddi|zuHause> do we have @8ball? :p 15:47:41 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:48:43 <TrueBrain> I made supybot a whitelist, with very few commands on the list ... 15:48:46 <LordAro> TrueBrain: are you at least writing down the other wrong things you find :p 15:48:50 <TrueBrain> as supybot was annoying me, how many stupid commands it has 15:49:01 <TrueBrain> LordAro: nope! As the issue-tracker wouldn't be able to handle it 15:49:05 <LordAro> D: 15:49:35 <TrueBrain> but really, if you play the game after not having played it for years, you spot a lot of: WTF?! 15:49:59 <TrueBrain> like: why can't I send this truck to a truck station?! 15:50:11 <TrueBrain> but seemly nobody had that question, so it must be only me having that issue :) 15:51:08 <TrueBrain> 23 open things to do for 1.11, 9 of which just require approvals on 5 PRs :D 15:51:13 <TrueBrain> so 14 things left 15:51:31 <TrueBrain> 4 with some minor work from their authors 15:51:52 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> but seemly nobody had that question, so it must be only me having that issue :) <-- you haven't read the forum in that time either, right? :p 15:52:04 <LordAro> TrueBrain: why couldn't you send that truck to a truck station? :p 15:52:12 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: forum? Do we have one? 15:52:24 <TrueBrain> LordAro: it was articulated or something ... which the game didn't tell me .. like .. at all 15:52:43 <TrueBrain> just don't use NewGRFs and you are fine 15:53:06 <TrueBrain> I see no reason why an articulated vehicle can't get in a truck stop btw ... 15:53:08 <TrueBrain> just reverse 15:53:10 <TrueBrain> ffs 15:54:02 <TrueBrain> but yeah, I can spend literally days on polishing OpenTTD .. so many rough edges when you come in "fresh" 15:54:52 <Eddi|zuHause> "days"? :p 15:55:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds optimistic by several orders of magnitude :p 15:55:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8517: Codechange: Make void tiles flood edge tiles, instead of edge tiles flooding themselves https://git.io/JLxCt 15:56:25 <TrueBrain> Samu: another word of the wise: if you make more PRs in a project than the maintainers can review and merge/close, you are not doing yourself any favours 15:57:37 <Samu> what do you mean 15:58:10 <TrueBrain> if you in a week make 10 new PRs, and only 2 get reviewed / closed / merged ... you are not helping a project 15:58:18 <TrueBrain> especially if you do that week in week out 16:00:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge updated pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS https://git.io/JkqLt 16:00:13 <Samu> hmm, if i make too few, im told to split, if i make many, im told not to make many :( 16:00:37 <TrueBrain> as in the rest of life, there is a balance to be made 16:00:52 <TrueBrain> and those 2 things you mention, have little to do with each other 16:01:01 <TrueBrain> you have to split them, as they have no relation with each other 16:01:26 <TrueBrain> and you are flooding us, without contributing in any other way .. we cannot be your puppet that only has time to only review your PRs :) 16:01:29 <andythenorth> Samu also you get lots of conflicting advice in open source 16:01:31 <andythenorth> this happens 16:01:33 <TrueBrain> it is almost our fulltime job .. which is not okay ;) 16:01:44 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pulls/SamuXarick <- just see that list of open PRs :) 16:02:00 <TrueBrain> it becomes rather unrealistic of you to expect us to review them all 16:02:05 <TrueBrain> you have to find a balance what you PR 16:02:12 <TrueBrain> wait till the PRs you have open are processed 16:02:15 <TrueBrain> and open a new one 16:02:33 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 16:02:36 <TrueBrain> or find other ways to help out; there is more than just creating code :P 16:03:02 <andythenorth> reviewing PRs :P 16:03:05 <andythenorth> deleting code :P 16:03:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS https://git.io/JLxCz 16:04:19 <Eddi|zuHause> https://www.twitch.tv/eddijk anybody got a clue what i was trying to do last time? 16:04:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge updated pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS https://git.io/JkqLt 16:04:24 <TrueBrain> at work I used to put people on a quota .. if you have 5 open PRs, your next job cannot be to create a 6th. It has to be some other work, like reviewing other peoples work, updating documentation, triaging issues, etc 16:04:45 <andythenorth> WIP control! 16:04:47 <andythenorth> Kanban! 16:06:00 <andythenorth> Samu most software is just management :P 16:06:08 <andythenorth> here's some homework, pls report back :P http://ce.sharif.edu/courses/97-98/1/ce475-1/resources/root/Kanban-vs-Scrum.pdf 16:06:14 <TrueBrain> I am already draining the review quota for OpenTTD .. but at least I am fixing bugs I did not create myself, or that nobody knew was a bug :P :P 16:06:52 <TrueBrain> bah, my English sentences are still terrible; deal with it :P 16:06:56 <Eddi|zuHause> software development is 10% writing new stuff, and 90% desperately trying to keep together the stuff that is already there 16:07:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS https://git.io/JLxCw 16:07:12 <andythenorth> that ignores 60% meetings 16:07:20 <andythenorth> and 30% wondering why the toolchain doesn't work 16:07:25 <andythenorth> and 10% cat videos 16:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause> you can drop 50% of those 60% meetings 16:07:42 <andythenorth> or watch cat videos in them 16:07:46 <andythenorth> saving time 16:07:53 <andythenorth> efficiency 16:07:55 <TrueBrain> orudge: vcpkg action code is kinda hiding behind another repo .. really annoying to find what things do, I noticed too :D 16:08:08 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: do that long enough, and you have no meetings :) 16:08:13 *** DasPoseidon has joined #openttd 16:08:18 <andythenorth> how many recolour sprites do I need if I'm handling 2CC and 1CC remapping? 16:08:23 * andythenorth can't basic maths 16:08:26 <orudge> TrueBrain: ah... 16:08:36 <andythenorth> 256? 16:08:37 <TrueBrain> how many chicken can I put in my belly before I fall over ... I am about to find out! :) 16:08:43 <andythenorth> 7 16:08:49 <LordAro> 23 16:08:55 <andythenorth> chickens, chicken wings, or chicken nuggets? 16:09:14 <TrueBrain> well, it is 400grams total .. 16:09:15 <orudge> well, if this does work, then I'll try flipping that flag and we can go with that instead 16:09:20 <TrueBrain> pretty sure I can eat that myself 16:09:35 <TrueBrain> orudge: yeah, exactly :) Trial and error :D 16:09:49 <TrueBrain> if you don't want to push in the branch that is linked to your PR, you can just push to any other branch btw 16:09:50 <Samu> alright, im not doing any more PRs until you review the existing ones. 16:09:55 <TrueBrain> the release workflow will just work orudge :) 16:10:20 <Samu> will try to keep 5 or 6 open max 16:10:27 <TrueBrain> Samu: would be appreciated; just to put in context, 20+% of the open PRs are yours ;) 16:11:31 <TrueBrain> and they do take extra effort from our side, as we have to validate your claims etc. Which is totally fine, but you have to prioritize what you think is important to add to OpenTTD more :) 16:11:58 <TrueBrain> most of us devs have 20+ branches in our local repository, because we didn't consider them important enough to make PR-ready 16:12:08 <TrueBrain> that is absolutely normal and okay 16:13:16 <TrueBrain> Samu: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8517 <- how I read this PR, you just spotted a silly glitch, and made a PR for it. What I always wonder: does it matter? How many people will notice? How important is this? Is it worth 2 hours of my time to review this? Something you do have to balance 16:13:33 <TrueBrain> (you, as author of a PR) 16:14:07 <TrueBrain> currently, as it stands, I put this as number #55 on my list of PRs to review, all the way at the bottom :) Not because it might be bad, or wrong .. just, because I do not think anyone would notice, and I can spend my 2 hours better on other things atm :) 16:14:33 <Eddi|zuHause> to be fair, i did notice that some (many) years ago :) 16:14:53 <TrueBrain> but you classified it as bug priority -10000 and never bothered to make an issue, I guess? :D 16:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i think so :) 16:15:05 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:17:45 <TrueBrain> "Excluding merges, 13 authors have pushed 49 commits to master" <- this week :) 16:17:53 <TrueBrain> "On master, 131 files have changed and there have been 2,217 additions and 2,269 deletions. " 16:17:54 <TrueBrain> haha 16:18:06 * andythenorth oh I already generated all the recolour sprites I need 16:18:10 <andythenorth> I just did it wrong 16:18:14 <andythenorth> ha ha lol etc 16:18:19 <andythenorth> what an idiot 16:18:27 <TrueBrain> last month, we did 100 PRs and 51 issues 16:18:29 <andythenorth> take away my coding license 16:18:40 <TrueBrain> wait, you need a license to code? 16:18:42 <TrueBrain> oh-oh ....... 16:18:44 <andythenorth> you don't have one? 16:18:46 <andythenorth> FML 16:18:50 <andythenorth> this is....bad 16:19:01 <andythenorth> and you won't be able to get one now due to Covid 16:19:28 <TrueBrain> translator did 25% of the commits the last 30 days 16:19:29 <TrueBrain> lol 16:19:43 <andythenorth> translator used to be 98% of commits 16:19:52 <TrueBrain> don't make this a negative thing! 16:19:54 <LordAro> yeah, 25% is super low ;p 16:19:57 <TrueBrain> I was enjoying the positive! 16:19:59 <TrueBrain> ffs people :) 16:20:26 <Eddi|zuHause> you win some you lose some :p 16:20:29 <andythenorth> 2016-2018 was the low https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/graphs/contributors 16:20:31 <andythenorth> this is golden age 16:20:39 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pulse/monthly <- I like pulse :) 16:20:46 <TrueBrain> it looks nice :D 16:21:15 <TrueBrain> okay, so I need to make 1000 commits more to beat frosch .... 16:21:28 <TrueBrain> it just isn't fair .. NoAI, 1 commit 16:21:30 <TrueBrain> TGP, 1 commit 16:21:43 <TrueBrain> he is just cheating! 16:22:54 <andythenorth> oof eddi has more commits than me 16:22:56 <TrueBrain> Contributions: Additions, clearly show when those events happen :P 16:23:05 <andythenorth> 27 vs 21 16:23:08 <Eddi|zuHause> how did that happen? 16:23:16 <TrueBrain> right, chicken time 16:23:34 <andythenorth> hammer time 16:23:35 <Eddi|zuHause> also that's not counting the dozen or so svn commits "based on patch by eddi" 16:23:51 <LordAro> 132, nice 16:24:09 <LordAro> how many of those are actually authored by me, i wonder 16:24:21 <LordAro> oh, all of them 16:24:23 <LordAro> cool 16:25:37 <andythenorth> FIRS 6369 commits :P 16:25:46 <andythenorth> "Change: some pixels" 16:28:03 <Timberwolf> Road Vehicles has a commit for "fixes of unknown nature", which is confidence-inspiring. 16:30:25 <TrueBrain> LordAro: it counts authored, so it misses commits you committed (and possibly modified) 16:30:36 <TrueBrain> So it is the lower bar, basically :D 16:41:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge updated pull request #8340: Draft: Feature: Create Universal (x86_64 + Apple Silicon) build on macOS https://git.io/JkqLt 16:42:02 <andythenorth> oof maths for offsetting into recolour sprites :P 16:42:24 *** blathijs has quit IRC 16:42:58 <Eddi|zuHause> <grm-base-value> + <cc-number>? 16:43:19 <glx> orudge: I think with doNotUpdateVcpkg it also needs a specific commit 16:44:06 *** rptr_ has joined #openttd 16:44:54 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 16:45:36 <glx> or maybe not, I can't remember what I tested during the CI move 17:06:51 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:09:03 *** Borg has joined #openttd 17:19:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8514: Change: Allow to build dock on clearable watered object tiles https://git.io/JLxB1 17:26:24 <andythenorth> I like black, but it makes some maths very hard to read 17:26:53 <andythenorth> https://github.com/andythenorth/unsinkable-sam/blob/colour_randomisation_strategies/src/utils.py#L77 17:29:14 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:29:47 <frosch123> TrueBrain: you can replace the error message duration with a on/off setting: do you want to read error messages, or do you want them to vanish as fast as possible 17:29:52 *** gelignite has quit IRC 17:31:09 <glx> when set to 0 they are not shown at all (unless critical) 17:31:35 <frosch123> i mute all sounds, so some red flickering is a welcome notification :p 17:39:41 <andythenorth> is this valid nml? and valid maths? :P return custom_ship_recolour_sprites + (16 * 1) + company_colour2 17:42:37 <glx> custom_ship_recolour_sprites is a switch ? 17:42:59 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't sound like very sane maths 17:43:06 <andythenorth> it's a recolour sprite 17:43:13 <glx> so a constant 17:43:22 <Eddi|zuHause> should be valid nml, if custom-ship_recolour_sprites is a parameter (grm result) 17:43:24 <andythenorth> company_colour2 is a var 17:43:28 <andythenorth> or shoudl be 17:43:47 <andythenorth> it doesn't fail anyway, but the results are...unexpected 17:43:53 <glx> yeah if it was a switch nml syntax would error 17:43:58 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the (16*1) supposed to mean? 17:44:12 <supermop_Home> recoloring ships? 17:45:33 <andythenorth> it's an offset into the sprites 17:45:43 <andythenorth> there are another 32 of these 17:45:48 <andythenorth> or so 17:46:37 <andythenorth> I'll do the maths in python, cleaner output 17:47:46 <rptr_> hi 17:57:36 <andythenorth> lol 10 mins hunting a non-existent bug because company colour caching is aggressive :) 17:58:20 <andythenorth> GG 17:59:02 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:03:44 <Xaroth> andythenorth: if black makes your math too hard to read, it's likely that you should rephrase it a bit ;) 18:03:57 <andythenorth> I wondered 18:04:05 <andythenorth> but then I'm rearranging me to suit the tool 18:04:07 <andythenorth> bit weird 18:04:27 <Xaroth> also, a list of a keys() to find an index? 18:04:46 <Xaroth> not all python implementations promise consistency in dict keys/items/values 18:05:04 <Xaroth> i.e. it could become [1,2,3] or [2,3,1] in some implementations 18:05:07 <andythenorth> pff 18:05:17 <andythenorth> people have to move on :) 18:06:03 <andythenorth> I was stuck at work on 2.4 for what seemed like 10 years 18:06:07 <andythenorth> very bad idea 18:06:19 <Xaroth> but I would definitely rewrite those few lines 18:06:31 <andythenorth> let's see 18:06:49 <Xaroth> move the index fetching out of it 18:07:37 <andythenorth> to a var? 18:07:50 <Xaroth> yeah 18:08:02 <andythenorth> I've spent 15 years teaching myself to stop doing that :P 18:08:09 <andythenorth> this isn't 'my first flash game' :) 18:08:17 <andythenorth> "let's var everything" 18:08:20 <andythenorth> var One = 1 18:08:32 <Xaroth> you've spent 15 years to learn to make unreadable code? :P 18:08:51 <andythenorth> I've spent 15 years learning not to include pointless abstractions 18:08:59 <andythenorth> when one line of python can be scanned in one line 18:08:59 <Xaroth> this isn't pointless 18:09:07 <andythenorth> black seems to throw all that out of the window 18:09:14 * andythenorth will adapt 18:09:48 <Xaroth> black is of the opinion that cluttering a single line of code with too much different operations is unreadable, and should be on separate lines 18:09:52 <andythenorth> can't even tell what it's supposed to do 18:10:50 <andythenorth> it would be easier to read if I wasn't calling list() on the keys 18:11:08 <andythenorth> why am I even doing that, are keys not an iterable with index()? 18:12:42 <Xaroth> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3106/ 18:12:56 <Xaroth> .keys/values/items return values are special 18:13:25 <andythenorth> nice 18:13:59 <Xaroth> afaik they return the actual references to the keys/values 18:14:04 <Xaroth> rather than a copy of that 18:14:24 <Xaroth> that's why they force you to list() it to do stuff with it 18:18:50 <andythenorth> not really good enough yet https://github.com/andythenorth/unsinkable-sam/blob/d8cc02e31dfec594aec74c33ba5d0b2c1e30caba/src/utils.py#L76 18:18:52 <andythenorth> but eh 18:19:48 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 18:20:14 <Wolf01> And now a friend raised a question: why superscript numbers (¹²³) in ascii table are in wrong order? 18:20:40 <LordAro> they're not in ascii 18:20:52 <LordAro> <pedantry> 18:20:56 <Wolf01> (speaking of OEM850) 18:20:58 <LordAro> </* 18:21:00 <frosch123> andythenorth: index() on dict keys() ? isn't that random? 18:21:17 <andythenorth> not in python 3.something 18:21:21 *** Borg has quit IRC 18:21:32 <LordAro> 3.7 18:21:39 <andythenorth> https://softwaremaniacs.org/blog/2020/02/05/dicts-ordered/ 18:22:19 <frosch123> oh, insertion order 18:22:28 <LordAro> still a bit of a weird thing to do 18:22:32 <andythenorth> I could do the old style list of 2-tuples 18:22:43 <andythenorth> but $someone somewhere said get with the program 18:22:51 <frosch123> LordAro: i think microsoft unordered_set does the same :) 18:23:36 <andythenorth> unpacking ((a, b), (c, d)) is fun but eh 18:23:41 <LordAro> frosch123: hehe 18:23:53 <LordAro> frosch123: well, iirc, it was a cpython implementation detail in 3.6 18:24:07 <frosch123> that's what andy's link says 18:24:09 <andythenorth> I tried the OrderedDict thing somewhere, but it's one more import to faff with 18:24:44 <andythenorth> I am going to blame TB for my choices as he will be full of chicken and unable to remember what was said 18:25:31 <frosch123> tb full of chicken? did he get a cheap deal on left-over christmas-birds? 18:25:37 <andythenorth> probly 18:25:59 <andythenorth> it does look weird though eh, list(foo.keys()).index('bar') 18:26:08 <andythenorth> why not just foo.index(bar)? 18:26:32 <LordAro> i'd question why you're trying to treat it as an ordereddict at all 18:26:41 <frosch123> i guess sorted(foo.keys()).index(bar) is not what you want? 18:27:02 <andythenorth> LordAro because the order is significant 18:27:26 <andythenorth> and a dict is less ugly to work with than a list of 2-tuples 18:27:33 <andythenorth> potato / potato though 18:27:33 <Xaroth> you might want to put some checks to make sure you're running py3.7 at least. 18:27:44 <andythenorth> I _might_ 18:27:50 <andythenorth> but you know... 18:27:51 <Xaroth> or fall back to OrderedDict on older versions, but /shrug 18:28:35 <andythenorth> or write a note 18:28:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JLxux 18:28:38 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:30:06 <LordAro> list(foo.keys()).index(bar) it is then 18:30:16 <LordAro> split it out into a separate variable if you want to :p 18:30:51 <Xaroth> Your comment also doesn't match your var names, but that's a bit pedantic 18:31:16 <Xaroth> and fstrings might work well with this 18:31:18 <andythenorth> no that's a good spot thanks 18:31:51 <Xaroth> and 'is' on int comparisons.. it works, but not advised 18:32:19 <Xaroth> but only because you're comparing to an int that's interned :P 18:32:28 <Xaroth> (-5 - 255 is interned, the rest is not) 18:33:00 * andythenorth fixes 18:33:40 <andythenorth> 'black considered useful' 18:34:51 <andythenorth> frosch123 I did random CC variation for ships :P https://grf.farm/images/oof_ship_randomised_cc_2.png 18:38:29 *** KAbal has joined #openttd 18:42:34 <frosch123> haha, if you keep the difference so small, some people may never notice :) 18:44:14 <andythenorth> yeah I'm unconvinced so far 18:44:37 <andythenorth> ships really need some kind of randomisation 18:44:49 <andythenorth> when you have a group of e.g. 10 or 20 all same, it's boring 18:45:58 <frosch123> make them rusty in different positions? :p 18:46:39 <andythenorth> grows the sprite count horribly :P 18:46:47 <andythenorth> maybe a layer 18:47:22 <andythenorth> can we have procedural painting directly in game? 18:47:40 *** rptr_ has joined #openttd 18:50:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8492: Fix: Don't allow towns to terraform certain floodable tiles https://git.io/JLdA0 18:50:52 <andythenorth> 4096 spritelayers, each layer has 1 pixel sprite :P 18:51:02 <andythenorth> 'procedural painting' 18:52:46 <supermop_Home> make a brown splotch but a big chain of switches to position it? 18:53:14 <andythenorth> yes 18:53:30 <andythenorth> there are old ideas about dirt increasing between services 18:56:56 <TrueBrain> are my PRs reviewed yet? Awh :( 18:56:57 <TrueBrain> :P 18:58:03 <andythenorth> I could randomise to a whole different company colour https://grf.farm/images/oof_ship_randomised_1cc_2cc_and_variants.png 18:58:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8515: Fix: don't allow cloning vehicles if cloning orders is failing https://git.io/JLxZZ 19:02:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JLxgt 19:02:14 <frosch123> i got access to a great website :) "for security reasons your password may not contain <, > or =". but the initial generated one contained those, and now i cannot change password :p 19:02:36 <TrueBrain> lolz ... "security reasons" my ass :P 19:04:27 <frosch123> maybe they store them in an excel table, and excel may render them as html 19:04:41 <frosch123> ah, yeah, excel also explains the "=" 19:04:45 <frosch123> i was wondering about that 19:05:07 <andythenorth> they're keeping them in plain text 19:05:31 <andythenorth> so access control is does form.password.value == database.passwords.username 19:05:43 <andythenorth> and they can't have comparison operators 19:06:00 <Xaroth> btw andythenorth, `for line in file:` also works instead of readlines() 19:06:21 <Xaroth> and if you're using 3.7+, you don't need codecs.open to open with a certain encoding. 19:06:28 <andythenorth> is there a 'with' version or something also? 19:06:34 <andythenorth> I don't seem to be closing the file 19:06:39 <Xaroth> yes 19:06:39 <TrueBrain> < > are not valid because they are afraid they are HTML escapes that they forgot to encode properly, and = is not allowed as they check if the password is base64 encoded by checking for a = in the string .. I think that is more realistic, for websites which such statements :P 19:06:50 <Xaroth> with open(path, mode, encoding="utf-8"): 19:16:14 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 19:16:25 <LordAro> reasonably certain utf-8 is the default now 19:16:53 <TrueBrain> you are .. correct! :D 19:19:11 <milek7> umm, no 19:19:31 <milek7> " The default encoding is platform dependent (whatever locale.getpreferredencoding() returns)," 19:20:13 <andythenorth> oofsie 19:20:20 * andythenorth puts utf-8 back 19:20:44 <frosch123> so it is cp1252 on windows? 19:20:57 <frosch123> and utf-8 on everything else? 19:23:19 <milek7> that depends on windows settings 19:23:45 <milek7> cp1250 for me 19:24:56 <andythenorth> Xaroth thanks, improved those 19:25:58 <TrueBrain> saying it is not utf-8 is very pedantic :) Since Python 3.6 Windows defaults to UTF-8, on MacOS it was already UTF-8 and Linux .. well, only people who like shooting themselves in the foot are non-utf8 :) 19:26:13 <TrueBrain> most Python3 programmers have been leaving out the encoding for a long time now :P 19:27:06 <TrueBrain> you basically have to get out of your way to get it non-utf8 .. not sure andythenorth should care about that :) 19:27:21 <frosch123> https://docs.python.org/3/library/locale.html#locale.getpreferredencoding <- half of the text is about android 19:27:27 <TrueBrain> funny aint it? :D 19:27:38 <frosch123> is it just me, or is that platform way too new to have encoding issues? 19:27:47 * andythenorth considers lunch 19:27:49 <LordAro> milek7: i'm pretty sure default changed to utf-8 even on windows for 3.8 or 3.9 orsomething 19:28:11 <TrueBrain> https://docs.python.org/3/using/cmdline.html#envvar-PYTHONUTF8 <- this is the best thing ever, but I believe it is still off by default 19:28:16 <TrueBrain> it basically says: fuck you all :) 19:28:17 <frosch123> did they hire old ms or java people, who thought ucs2 is a thing? 19:29:29 <TrueBrain> well, you will be shocked how many PEPs are wasted on encoding over different OSes :P 19:29:54 <frosch123> oh, some insurances run machines which do not even know about ascii 19:30:55 <milek7> TrueBrain: https://i.imgur.com/GUvgW5A.png 19:31:13 <TrueBrain> default != your configuration :) 19:32:07 <andythenorth> do we know how to reload GS yet? 19:32:17 * andythenorth considered reloading last autosave 19:32:27 <andythenorth> and hoping that saveload in the GS is not the broken part 19:33:17 <TrueBrain> but in case of doubt, start with -X UTF8 :P 19:33:59 <milek7> TrueBrain: I'm not sure why you are trying to argue facts here 19:34:07 <milek7> for most windows users (who have not gone out of their way to set PYTHONUTF8) default encoding is not utf8 19:35:22 * andythenorth looks at the PRs 19:35:26 <andythenorth> PRs look back :( 19:35:34 <Xaroth> UTF-8 here. 19:35:46 <frosch123> andythenorth: drawing more eye icons? :p 19:35:53 <andythenorth> do we need more? 19:35:57 <milek7> https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/db68544122f5a0c7b80f69c0e643049efa6699c6/Doc/using/windows.rst#utf-8-mode 19:36:08 <andythenorth> ok let's rip the plaster off the low numbers 19:36:09 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7000 19:36:15 <andythenorth> do I make a test grf or not? 19:36:24 <frosch123> i'll finish that during the weekend 19:36:36 <frosch123> fix the stuff with intention, delete the stuff without intention 19:36:55 <andythenorth> ok I can make a test grf (will be bloated due to being Iron Horse) 19:37:00 <andythenorth> and I can make a savegame 19:37:07 <andythenorth> or we could write an nml example for it 19:37:18 <andythenorth> which might be preferable, but more boring 19:37:39 <frosch123> did someone already write nml regressions for old/new produce syntax? 19:38:09 <andythenorth> I wrote some examples which were declared 'not great' 19:38:14 * andythenorth looks in tests also 19:38:29 <milek7> TrueBrain: 19:38:30 <milek7> >Since Python 3.6 Windows defaults to UTF-8 19:38:39 <milek7> if by that you mean PEP529, that only applied to filesystem paths 19:38:49 <milek7> "Notably, this does not impact the encoding of the contents of files. These will continue to default to locale.getpreferredencoding() (for text files) or plain bytes (for binary files). This only affects the encoding used when users pass a bytes object to Python where it is then passed to the operating system as a path name." 19:42:15 <andythenorth> frosch123 this any good? https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/commit/220acaf0d67d8ac713e8366b2589b40673400ea2#diff-f274537aaf2c509726a5ee54bb585c3c6e205fa6cf85a26d871bd7fc01a784a9 19:43:44 <frosch123> did someone figure out what the examples were meant for? 19:48:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8513: Fix: for arctic and tropic, make sure we have at least a few hills https://git.io/JLxal 19:49:09 <andythenorth> frosch123 [I don't know emoji] 19:49:18 <andythenorth> FLHerne made a commit though 19:49:21 <LordAro> milek7: ah, that'll be it 20:01:24 *** jottyfan1 has joined #openttd 20:07:23 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 20:07:23 *** jottyfan1 is now known as jottyfan 20:11:31 <Samu> TrueBrain, #8513 is gonna break #8404 20:13:44 *** jottyfan1 has joined #openttd 20:19:28 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 20:20:15 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 20:20:50 <andythenorth> was it lunch? 20:21:58 <TrueBrain> LordAro: boy, 8055 is indeed a tough one, I get what you meant last time I asked about that :) Also a lot of double-code to ensure it really cannot be opened etc :P funny :) 20:22:12 <TrueBrain> Samu: would it generate a merge conflict? yes. Does it "break" it? no. 20:22:31 <glx> conflicts happen, often fun to fix :) 20:22:45 <Samu> but even without the conflict, it's going to be counterproductive 20:24:06 <TrueBrain> flawless argumentation there :P Not sure what you are aiming at :D 20:26:13 <TrueBrain> so if max-road is set to 0, you can't build roads, so you cannot help towns grown, unless you know about a GUI setting .. hmm 20:26:18 *** jottyfan1 has quit IRC 20:26:33 <TrueBrain> I like the screenshot in 8063, that looks like much better feedback to the user 20:26:46 <Samu> your PR sets map height based on snow line height, so it forces terrain above snow. mine's approach sets the snow line height after the generation is done. 20:27:02 <TrueBrain> so what is the problem? :) 20:27:32 <Samu> it becomes kind of pointless 20:27:34 <andythenorth> one prevents broken 20:27:43 <andythenorth> one tries to put lipstick on the broken pig 20:27:59 <andythenorth> this is just the fruit of experience 20:28:01 <TrueBrain> so any pending PR we have prevents any fix surrounding similar code? I am honestly not sure what you are aiming at here Samu 20:28:05 <TrueBrain> that you want your PR reviewed? Is that it? 20:28:56 <TrueBrain> really not sure what point becomes pointless, honestly 20:29:51 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 20:30:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JvruE 20:31:13 <Samu> mine becomes pointless 20:31:14 <glx> temporary third commit, will squash in first if ok :) 20:31:40 <andythenorth> all code dies 20:31:41 <TrueBrain> Samu: how so? How does mine invalidate yours? 20:32:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JLxwy 20:32:49 <TrueBrain> glx: personally, I wouldn't make it that complicated. Why not just do if (hundredth_tick_timeout == 0 && !_network_dedicated) ? 20:33:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8063: Fix #8055: Always allow building any available roadtypes, even if there are no road vehicles available https://git.io/JLxw9 20:33:07 <glx> then retest 0 to reset ? 20:33:21 <TrueBrain> yeah 20:33:26 <Samu> because you set the heigh to be above the snow line, while mine tries to set the snow line based on the generated terrain. Yours will always have snow, so there's no point in trying to determine a snow level afterwards 20:33:50 <glx> I can do that 20:34:04 <TrueBrain> glx: I personally think that is easier to read, but it might fully be me :) 20:34:23 <frosch123> there are so many bs comments in 8063... 20:34:48 <TrueBrain> Samu: that is only true if your PR tried to solve the wrong thing. I assumed it wanted to solve setting the snow line height manually, and just find a nice automated value 20:35:01 <TrueBrain> that is valid before and after my PR; my PR only fixes things looking shitty right now 20:35:36 <glx> yeah auto snow should still work I think 20:35:52 <TrueBrain> it is at least something to consider; I haven't formed an opinion about it :) 20:36:20 <glx> and TrueBrain's PR fix the non automatic stuff 20:37:02 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I was thinking of enabling all toolbars, and adding what the image in 8063 shows; I think that is a lot better than disabling the icon as it currently is anyway 20:37:13 <glx> like if you manually set silly snow level it will try to generate a working map I think 20:37:15 <TrueBrain> for trams I was rather confused the first time, like: why can't I click this .. do I need to forward time? :D 20:37:39 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 20:37:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8513: Fix: for arctic and tropic, make sure we have at least a few hills https://git.io/JLxrv 20:37:46 <frosch123> TrueBrain: what is the difference between that and setting "disable_unsuitable_building" to false? 20:38:16 <TrueBrain> frosch123: the latter gives no visual feedback to the user he has no road vehicles available 20:38:22 <TrueBrain> you can even build bus-stops etc 20:38:57 <TrueBrain> so by disabling the bus-stop buttons + a small text telling why, might help the user a lot, my reasoning goes 20:39:31 <TrueBrain> (but my reasoning might be flawed, ofc!) 20:39:37 <frosch123> do the same for canals then :) 20:39:43 <TrueBrain> for all toolbars, yes 20:39:58 <frosch123> for road and rail it is harder 20:40:08 <frosch123> roadtypes and railtypes have introduction conditions 20:40:23 <TrueBrain> yeah .. can you request to the game if they will become available? 20:40:27 <TrueBrain> is there such a callback? 20:40:57 <frosch123> for railtypes it's easy. they become available if there is a vehicle that can drive on them, and some minimum year is reached 20:41:47 <frosch123> roadtypes have that "default road" anomaly. it was a hot topic 5 years ago, i don't think nrt specified any behavior 20:41:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8516: Fix #7972: show invalid orders to stations that don't accept your vehicle https://git.io/JLxrG 20:42:16 <TrueBrain> what do you mean, "default road" anomaly? 20:42:51 <frosch123> if there are no trains, no railtype is available. if there are no roadvehicles, towns still need *some* road 20:43:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8512: Several mistakes with ending-year and extreme values https://git.io/JLxr8 20:43:17 <frosch123> no idea what identifies that "town road type" 20:43:36 <frosch123> trams are easy again. no trams available, no tramtypes available 20:43:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8516: Fix #7972: show invalid orders to stations that don't accept your vehicle https://git.io/JLxr0 20:44:14 <TrueBrain> ideally, what I would like to do, is present two strings: either there are no tramtypes available, not now, not ever 20:44:18 <TrueBrain> or, there are tramtypes available, just not now 20:45:08 <TrueBrain> LordAro: honestly, I just looked at the Order GUI and was like: this is already a mess, let's add to it :P I would rather solve it differently, but I didn't know how :) 20:45:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JvruE 20:45:37 <TrueBrain> I considered leaving out the "non-stop" etc, but that was weird too 20:45:47 <frosch123> TrueBrain: no idea what you mean. if there are no trams, all entries in the dropdown are disabled 20:45:50 <TrueBrain> just making them red, but that was missing visual feedback 20:45:54 <LordAro> TrueBrain: yeah, that's fair :) 20:46:07 <TrueBrain> frosch123: what I mean is, there is a difference between no trams available now, and no trams available at all 20:46:13 <TrueBrain> as in: did you forget to install a NewGRF? 20:46:34 <TrueBrain> LordAro: if you have other ideas, I would really like that :) 20:46:56 <frosch123> but why does that matter? 20:47:09 <frosch123> do you want to allow building *some* tramtype when there are no trams? 20:47:15 <frosch123> extending the road anomaly to trams? 20:47:26 <TrueBrain> okay, so we were talking about 2 different things I see :D 20:47:52 <TrueBrain> I now get what you mean 20:47:52 <glx> oh and moving hundredth_tick to a "local" thing removes an extra window loop, probably very small benefit but still 20:48:32 <TrueBrain> frosch123: let me see if I can make a mock-up here, as I am not fully sure how trams etc work :) 20:49:41 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i think the "disable/enable build tools when no vehicle is available" originated from before there were rail/road/tram types. imo that settings makes no sense for road/tram/rail/airports. only infrastructure it somewhat works is canals 20:49:43 <TrueBrain> okay, what I wanted to solve is already solved, so nevermind :) 20:50:09 <TrueBrain> frosch123: what I am aiming at, is that there is missing some visual elements to make the player aware why buttons are disabled 20:50:13 <TrueBrain> it really frustrated me 20:51:02 <frosch123> i once worked on a software, where disabled buttons were clickable, and then they displayed an error message 20:51:19 <TrueBrain> if only the tooltip would indicate why they were disabled, would already help 20:51:20 <frosch123> non-standard guis :) 20:51:30 <TrueBrain> but I was now aiming for something slightly more subtle 20:53:19 <andythenorth> hide the tram icon in main toolbar if no trams :P 20:53:28 <andythenorth> disable if trams not ready yet 20:53:31 <TrueBrain> that is not really a way I would consider useful :P 20:54:06 <Samu> warning! happens since b30c3f6 https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/runs/1664447174#step:6:700 20:54:45 <TrueBrain> I am very sure b30c3f6 did not cause that :P 20:55:19 <andythenorth> just include trams, problem vanishes? 20:55:23 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I think I now a solution for the order GUI, will try in a bit :) 20:55:26 <andythenorth> trams in openttd.grf! 20:55:29 <LordAro> TrueBrain: :o 20:55:41 <andythenorth> no trams, because we didn't want community drama, is how I remember it 20:55:58 <andythenorth> OMG YOU ADDED TRAMS, I SWITCH TO SIMUTRANS 20:56:05 <andythenorth> GAME RUINED 20:56:17 <Samu> happens with this https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/0125892f041026d049dd9ce7e6d1a63ed5fd67eb 20:56:36 <LordAro> correct! 20:56:43 <LordAro> but that's definitely not b30c3f6 20:57:07 <Samu> ok, my bad, that's the parent one 20:57:19 <LordAro> `-static_cast<int>(ROAD_STOP_TRACKBIT)` should do it 20:57:25 <LordAro> Samu: i'll allow you to PR that :p 20:58:01 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 20:58:04 <TrueBrain> LordAro: https://pasteboard.co/JIAv3gM.png better? 20:58:23 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i think maybe, yes 20:58:26 *** KAbal has quit IRC 20:58:31 <TrueBrain> or just black for the remainder of the text? 20:58:41 <TrueBrain> or maybe only the error red 20:58:41 <TrueBrain> hmm 20:58:50 <LordAro> nah, that looks too much like an implicit order 20:59:04 <Samu> i cant make more PRs 20:59:21 <Samu> im afraid TrueBrain will not like it 20:59:33 <TrueBrain> the world isn't black and white 20:59:35 <TrueBrain> LordAro: https://pasteboard.co/JIAvGmI.png 20:59:51 <LordAro> Samu: i'm giving you permission for this one :p 21:00:00 <glx> you can for this one, it's small and requested :) 21:00:09 <LordAro> TrueBrain: hmm 21:00:24 <LordAro> could be missed if the whole line isn't red, perhaps? 21:00:27 * LordAro is not UI expert 21:00:40 <glx> all red is better I think 21:00:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8508: Fix #7656: destroying a tunnel/bridge now first removes the tracks for cost calculation https://git.io/JLxoE 21:00:55 <frosch123> TrueBrain: if it helps, we have commands to push/pop colours 21:01:12 <frosch123> so you can push colour, switch it, print some text, pop old colour 21:01:22 <glx> oh yes we always forget them 21:01:32 <TrueBrain> frosch123: oeh, that is nice 21:01:34 <TrueBrain> LordAro: https://pasteboard.co/JIAwtx9.png 21:01:41 <TrueBrain> easier to miss why it is red, tbh 21:01:47 <milek7> could it be yellow or something? 21:02:40 <TrueBrain> so that comes back to why I prefixed it, a bit more in-the-eye 21:03:06 <TrueBrain> too many of this text is already between () and [] 21:03:12 <glx> I prefer prefix too 21:03:17 <andythenorth> Can't read orders (too many things) (please improve) [too big to fix] 21:03:24 <andythenorth> whoever added far end etc 21:03:30 <andythenorth> needs to explain themselves :) 21:03:31 <TrueBrain> so all red with prefix? 21:03:39 <frosch123> just don't make everything read, otherwise you cannot see line selection 21:03:49 <andythenorth> red is barely readable, contrast wise 21:03:59 <andythenorth> so yeah just red on the angry part pls 21:04:04 <andythenorth> angry / scary /s 21:04:08 <TrueBrain> red is a terrible color, but I am not going to break consistency there :) 21:04:37 <TrueBrain> frosch123: how do you do the color push? :D 21:04:51 <glx> red "(can't use)" as prefix then back to normal 21:05:51 <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/JIAyg6t.png 21:05:59 <frosch123> STR_XYZ :Default color {PUSH_COLOUR}{RED}red text{POP_COLOUR} default color again 21:06:10 <TrueBrain> I search for {PU, grr :D Tnx 21:06:14 <andythenorth> ^^ wfm TrueBrain 21:06:58 <TrueBrain> works a lot better with selection too 21:07:11 <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/JIAyNQJ.png 21:07:34 <TrueBrain> frosch123: funny, that is not currently used in english.txt, push/pop :D 21:07:55 <andythenorth> ship 21:07:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8516: Fix #7972: show invalid orders to stations that don't accept your vehicle https://git.io/JLxcf 21:08:10 <glx> yeah it's mainly used by newgrf I think 21:08:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8516: Fix #7972: show invalid orders to stations that don't accept your vehicle https://git.io/JLxoH 21:08:36 <TrueBrain> works perfectly here :) 21:09:12 <frosch123> TrueBrain: it was added for newgrf or gs, can't remember 21:09:13 <Samu> UpdateCompanyRoadInfrastructure(rt, GetRoadOwner(tile, rtt), -static_cast<int>(ROAD_STOP_TRACKBIT_FACTOR)); 21:09:18 <Samu> looks ugly 21:09:28 <frosch123> but mostly to highlight stuff in lines, that change colours, when selected 21:09:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants https://git.io/JLNcq 21:10:31 <Samu> UpdateCompanyRoadInfrastructure(rt, GetRoadOwner(tile, rtt), -(int)ROAD_STOP_TRACKBIT_FACTOR); won't this work? seems less ugly and visual studio doesn't complain 21:10:57 <LordAro> Samu: less ugly, but (very technically) less correct 21:11:18 <TrueBrain> lol, you can build an airport in year 0 21:11:27 <TrueBrain> just no aircrafts 21:11:29 <TrueBrain> ghehe 21:11:50 <TrueBrain> expected all airports to have a minimum year of .. what .. 1918? :D 21:12:02 <LordAro> Samu: https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/explicit_cast 21:12:56 <frosch123> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8502 <- when you click on the first "force-pushed" from 2 days ago. do you also get a completely unrelated diff? 21:13:11 <TrueBrain> that link also picks up rebases, sadly 21:13:25 <frosch123> ah, it's a rebase 21:13:29 <frosch123> that explains it :) 21:13:30 <TrueBrain> which is really annoying 21:13:46 <TrueBrain> I know they have on their roadmap for Q1 to make this reviewing a bit easier 21:13:55 <TrueBrain> but from what I read, they overcomplicated it a bit, but we will see :P 21:14:09 <TrueBrain> (as author of a PR you can inform reviewers a new version is ready, even if it takes you 5 pushes, etc) 21:14:16 <frosch123> does gh have developers in nl? 21:14:21 <frosch123> can you apply? 21:14:30 <TrueBrain> haha, no tnx :) 21:14:36 <frosch123> aws? 21:14:57 <TrueBrain> I have been suggested to apply at AWS several times now; not sure :) 21:15:04 <glx> imagine reviewing on phone, following the comments is a pain on phone 21:15:16 <frosch123> pretty sure everyone things ottd gets stuff for free then 21:15:41 <glx> and reading the diff is worse 21:16:08 <glx> indentation is almost broken 21:16:50 <TrueBrain> glx: GH has a feedback forum, which they seem to read 21:17:21 <andythenorth> "working for the dread pirate Bezos" 21:17:37 <andythenorth> "AWS: where smart people go to feel bad about themselves" 21:18:09 <frosch123> andythenorth: poor guy is now only the second richest 21:18:15 <TrueBrain> from what I understand, working for AWS is pretty fine 21:18:22 <TrueBrain> it is Amazon that is mostly the issue 21:18:33 <TrueBrain> (which might sound strange, but that is what people tell me :P) 21:18:49 <andythenorth> Yeah I extrapolated from Amazon 21:19:20 <andythenorth> Google SRE in europe is supposed to be horrible, is that where Y*xo was? 21:19:20 <frosch123> i doubt tb wants to deliver parcels 21:19:38 <TrueBrain> I am sure they don't want me to pay what I ask for delivering parcels, no :) 21:19:43 <glx> he'll deliver packets ;) 21:20:03 <andythenorth> wow AWS Glassdoor is pretty positive 21:20:48 <michi_cc> Look what I wasted my time on today :p 21:20:54 <TrueBrain> yeah, I am not kidding andythenorth :) 21:20:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #8518: [OSX] Replace FreeType by native glyph rasterization https://git.io/JLxK8 21:21:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #8519: [OSX] Render screen in full native resolution on HiDPI displays. https://git.io/JLxK4 21:21:02 <glx> wow 21:21:05 <frosch123> google is funny. every second day youtube switches between two layouts for me. i think they have different versions on different servers, and sometimes i get one or the other 21:21:14 <glx> must be a lot of work michi_cc 21:21:18 <andythenorth> I get that too 21:21:30 <supermop_Home> TrueBrain i am sure if you get to work in the domes instead of a warehouse it's nice 21:21:31 <TrueBrain> this is why michi_cc has been so quiet :D 21:21:38 <andythenorth> michi_cc works, some of us talk 21:21:42 * andythenorth shamed 21:21:59 <LordAro> nice 21:22:03 <glx> andythenorth: you have something to test now ;) 21:22:07 <michi_cc> glx: Not that much actually, OSX is very similar to Win32 in this regard. Most time was spent getting the details right (e.g. floor/round/ceil ...) 21:22:22 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: If might also be because I'm not on vacation anymore :p 21:22:32 <TrueBrain> :D 21:22:38 <TrueBrain> wait, you guys have jobs?! :P 21:25:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants https://git.io/JLxKw 21:25:37 <TrueBrain> CI passed?! Nice LordAro :D 21:25:52 <TrueBrain> I will let you merge before I do mine, in case there is any conflict :P 21:25:59 <LordAro> wait, it did? 21:26:05 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 21:26:05 <LordAro> i got an email saying it failed 21:26:09 <TrueBrain> no, it did not :( 21:26:13 <TrueBrain> sorryyyyyyy 21:26:16 <frosch123> aw, why do i bother approving things, when the ci fails 21:26:18 <TrueBrain> I just assumed because he approved :( 21:26:32 <TrueBrain> wel, MacOS works at least \o/ 21:27:04 <TrueBrain> guess you found the one file that doesn't include stdafx.h or something? :D 21:27:12 <LordAro> probably 21:27:18 <andythenorth> wasm preview of 8518! 21:27:37 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: that would be .. pointless :P 21:27:48 <andythenorth> but WHY!? 21:27:51 <glx> #8508 will need to be reapproved after conflict is fixed ;) 21:27:52 * andythenorth pulls 21:29:44 <michi_cc> With all these late changes coming in, we could do a 1.11-beta-announce livestream. 21:29:58 <TrueBrain> and show off all the cool new features? :D 21:30:03 <andythenorth> I miss livestreaming 21:30:05 <andythenorth> it's been so long 21:30:25 <andythenorth> if I learn the twitch timing, I can avoid talking over the feature :P 21:31:55 <Samu> this is a terrible exercise for my brain 21:31:57 <andythenorth> michi_cc quad size interface setting now in use :) 21:32:05 <Samu> do i really got to fill in the PR form 21:32:10 <Xaroth> yes 21:32:14 * andythenorth testing 8519 21:32:35 <glx> Samu: it's easy, you just tell you fix the MSVC warning 21:32:49 <glx> no need to write a book in this case :) 21:33:12 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 21:33:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8520: Fix 0125892: Warning about unsigned unary minus https://git.io/JLxKx 21:33:44 <Samu> probably failed at it 21:34:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8519: [OSX] Render screen in full native resolution on HiDPI displays. https://git.io/JLxKj 21:35:06 <supermop_Home> andythenorth hotel sprite need anything else? 21:35:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8520: Fix 0125892: Warning about unsigned unary minus https://git.io/JLx6v 21:35:49 <andythenorth> supermop_Home I need to PR it, and wait for consensus 21:36:05 <andythenorth> someone will either just approve it, or we'll debate it for days and you'll be sad :P 21:37:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8521: Change: always allow to click on the toolbar icons for road/rail/dock/airport https://git.io/JLx6I 21:37:31 <TrueBrain> this is not done yet ^^ (hence, draft), but I wanted to build a preview to see what you guys think of a solution like this :) 21:41:15 <andythenorth> so has the macOS build had twice the zoom level of other clients? 21:41:25 * andythenorth unclear what other OS builds do 21:42:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8520: Fix 0125892: Warning about unsigned unary minus https://git.io/JLxKx 21:43:58 <glx> andythenorth: because retina 21:44:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JLx6u 21:45:33 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:45:50 <andythenorth> I lack any useful unit to compare zoom levels across different OS / devices 21:46:40 <glx> it's not about zoom level I think, everything is basically double resolution on retina 21:46:58 <andythenorth> it's 4 pixels to 1 yes 21:48:52 <TrueBrain> frosch123: https://preview.openttd.org/pr8521/ <- this is somewhat what I had in mind. Start the game in year 0 of so for best result. I still want to add something to indicate why the build-station etc are disabled 21:49:06 <TrueBrain> well, and others ofc .. would love some feedback 21:50:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8517: Codechange: Make void tiles flood edge tiles, instead of edge tiles flooding themselves https://git.io/JLxCt 21:50:57 <andythenorth> michi_cc 8519 so far :) 21:50:59 <andythenorth> ....the default 1x UI zoom is unworkable, and would be better disabled if we want to go this route. 21:51:15 <andythenorth> ...the zoomed out map is remarkably more beautiful 21:51:36 <andythenorth> ...the FPS on a release build of 8519 is about 25% of the 1.10.2 21:51:56 <michi_cc> Well, you have 4x the pixels to render. 21:52:04 <andythenorth> ...the loss of one zoom in level is annoying to me as a newgrf author, but I doubt most players would care 21:52:13 <glx> yeah it's expected to be slower 21:52:19 <andythenorth> yeah retina usually is 21:52:29 <michi_cc> glx: HiDPI in master renders like the old, old, old Win32 pixel doubler setting. 21:52:31 <andythenorth> the handful of other games I play don't run in retina, but they're 3D 21:53:34 <frosch123> TrueBrain: no idea what's different 21:53:35 <michi_cc> Well, I added an openttd.cfg-only setting for "unplayable". It's not really discoverable though :( 21:53:50 <TrueBrain> frosch123: haha, sorry: toolbar icons are never disabled 21:53:51 <frosch123> i need to read the diff to find out :p 21:53:52 *** DasPoseidon has quit IRC 21:53:56 <TrueBrain> so even in year 0, you can build road 21:54:00 <TrueBrain> but you cannot build stations 21:54:03 <TrueBrain> you can build canels 21:54:05 <TrueBrain> but no docks 21:54:43 <andythenorth> I guess to test the font PR I need to learn how to change the font? 21:54:46 * andythenorth assumes 21:54:52 <andythenorth> pixel font is pixel font 21:55:02 *** DasPoseidon has joined #openttd 21:58:10 *** DasPoseidon has quit IRC 21:59:07 <supermop_Home> i never change the font myself 21:59:41 <supermop_Home> tried to use Transport once, but its not a real complete font so the game didn't like it 21:59:45 *** DasPoseidon has joined #openttd 22:01:17 <supermop_Home> don't really have any other font that i think would look better in the context of the game 22:01:21 <frosch123> TrueBrain: looks good 22:01:27 <frosch123> why is it a draft? 22:01:34 <TrueBrain> because I want to fix a bit more :) 22:02:08 <andythenorth> michi_cc I will test more tomorrow :) 22:02:09 <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/JIAV7qJW.png 22:02:14 <TrueBrain> that is what I really wanted to do :) 22:02:52 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Just select Greek or Chinese or something as game language. 22:03:24 <andythenorth> much unicode :) 22:04:03 <andythenorth> ok fonts are very....sharp 22:04:08 <andythenorth> high quality 22:04:31 <andythenorth> I haven't tried the freetype replacement yet 22:07:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8521: Change: always allow to click on the toolbar icons for road/rail/dock/airport https://git.io/JLx6I 22:07:21 <TrueBrain> now it is ready for review ^^ :D 22:09:20 *** DasPoseidon has joined #openttd 22:09:22 <TrueBrain> wait, I might as well also remove the setting about this, I guess .. as that is totally pointless now I guess? 22:09:37 <Samu> cyas goodnight 22:09:40 *** Samu has quit IRC 22:09:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #8480: Multitile depots https://git.io/JL5Hh 22:11:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8521: Change: always allow to click on the toolbar icons for road/rail/dock/airport https://git.io/JLx6I 22:19:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLxPR 22:19:22 <TrueBrain> I really do not see the point of ^^; am I missing something? 22:19:51 <TrueBrain> what do rivers have that sea doesn't? 22:20:17 <frosch123> they are not on height level 0? 22:20:27 <frosch123> you can only rebuild them with canals 22:20:31 <frosch123> which people consider ugly 22:20:54 <TrueBrain> it feels like this is the wrong solution to a different problem :P 22:20:55 <LordAro> i'd be happy woth making rivers permanent without the setting, tbh 22:21:02 <LordAro> with* 22:21:20 <frosch123> TrueBrain: well, the "motivation" in that PR is not the usual motivation for that request 22:21:29 *** rptr_ has joined #openttd 22:21:29 <TrueBrain> frosch123: yeah, I suspected as much :) 22:21:41 <frosch123> usually the point is: rivers are the only thing in game, which you can destroy, but not restore 22:22:02 <frosch123> everything else either grows back (houses), or you can build it 22:22:12 <TrueBrain> okay, that is fair 22:22:32 <TrueBrain> making rivers indestructible makes them one of the only items that are (industries being the other exception, I think) 22:22:48 <TrueBrain> which feels like it jumps to the other side of the spectrum :) 22:22:53 <frosch123> don't forget transmitters and lighthouses :) 22:22:59 <TrueBrain> haha, fair :) 22:23:02 <rptr_> poor rivers 22:23:11 <TrueBrain> but rivers are much more disruptive 22:23:20 <TrueBrain> isn't the issue just that the cost of destroying them is too low? 22:23:34 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i am unsure about the current behavior of locks. they may or may not restore previous rivers, when removed 22:24:12 <frosch123> TrueBrain: no, people complain about *accidentially* removing them (read: selective demolish :p) 22:24:13 <TrueBrain> rivier is maintained 22:24:29 <TrueBrain> haha, okay, so we are back to that being the more proper solution for this :D 22:24:43 <frosch123> cost only works for small companies 22:24:45 <TrueBrain> LordAro: how do you feel about it? As you mention you would want to add this without setting? 22:25:17 <TrueBrain> frosch123: yeah, okay, cost is irrelevant if you are bigger, true 22:25:48 <TrueBrain> can't we add in the landscape toolbar: build river? 22:26:02 <TrueBrain> game-play wise a bit weird, I guess 22:26:21 <frosch123> i think there was a patch for that 22:26:28 <frosch123> noone liked it, can't remember why 22:26:43 <TrueBrain> it supersedes canals, I guess :D 22:26:54 <andythenorth> since when removing locks preserves rivers? 22:26:55 <andythenorth> o 22:26:59 <andythenorth> since always? :o 22:26:59 <frosch123> probably "realism" 22:27:14 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: all I did was start the game, place a lock, remove it 22:27:15 * andythenorth every day is a school day 22:27:18 <frosch123> andythenorth: i said, i don't know the state :p 22:27:19 <TrueBrain> river was still there :) 22:27:44 <milek7> hmm 22:27:45 <milek7> dbg: [net] [server] could not start network: could not create listening socket 22:27:47 <andythenorth> probably I misremember how I think it was 22:28:00 <TrueBrain> removing canals is not possible :) 22:28:09 <frosch123> TrueBrain: anyway, i also prefer "indestrucible rivers" over "player-built rivers" 22:28:19 <frosch123> just subjective :) 22:28:29 <TrueBrain> I just see inconsistent behaviour, that is all :) 22:28:38 <TrueBrain> would mean you cannot terraform next to a river etc 22:28:52 <TrueBrain> I expect a lot of people will not like that 22:28:55 <frosch123> yes, they become long transmitters :p 22:29:08 <frosch123> they can play without rivers 22:29:13 <frosch123> or magic bulldozer 22:29:24 <TrueBrain> it is one of those things I expect will become a setting you set off by default 22:29:32 <TrueBrain> as it is just too disruptive for most people's way of playing 22:29:34 <TrueBrain> but that is just a hunch 22:29:57 <milek7> indestructible rivers logically also leads to indestructible sea? 22:30:54 <TrueBrain> it is one of those: we should never have added them in the first place :P :P 22:30:58 * andythenorth proposes modest proposal, modestly 22:31:01 <andythenorth> remove rivers? 22:31:04 <andythenorth> no wait 22:31:12 <andythenorth> river building tool in normal game, move on? 22:31:34 <andythenorth> I have just been replacing missing rivers with GarryG's massive selection of river objects 22:32:08 <andythenorth> it's like 3 times in a game where I have removed a river and want to restore it 22:32:14 <TrueBrain> I would almost suggest a "challenging" mode, where some rules of the game change: 1) you can only terraform N times per year, 2) removing rivers and sea is part of that terraform quota 22:32:21 <andythenorth> GS :P 22:32:25 <andythenorth> oh no, no callbacks 22:32:35 <andythenorth> GS could manage the quota though 22:32:58 <andythenorth> if I play a game for 100 years, I want to replace broken rivers like...what...3 times? 22:33:04 <andythenorth> and it's a few tiles 22:33:08 <andythenorth> so just river builder 22:33:34 <andythenorth> only reason canals don't work are (1) ugly (2) can't build on slopes 22:33:55 <TrueBrain> can ships go upstream on rivers? 22:34:03 <andythenorth> in current game? yes 22:34:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #8480: Multitile depots https://git.io/JL5Hh 22:34:08 <andythenorth> IRL? yes 22:34:20 <TrueBrain> another solution might be, to make "river source blocks", which are indestructable 22:34:23 <glx> TrueBrain: or a dirt pile system, to raise land you need to dig somewhere else, and vice versa 22:34:30 <TrueBrain> and that you can build "new rivers" from the source block, flow where-ever you like 22:34:35 <andythenorth> TrueBrain like a minecraft water block? 22:34:36 <TrueBrain> glx: I like that idea too :) 22:34:40 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: yeah, kinda 22:34:40 <andythenorth> canaltypes 22:34:50 <TrueBrain> so if you destroy a river, you can build a new .. trench, I guess 22:34:56 <TrueBrain> and it flows through it again, making it a river again 22:34:58 <andythenorth> nice idea 22:35:00 <TrueBrain> but if you do it in a random spot 22:35:01 <TrueBrain> nothing happens 22:35:19 <andythenorth> practically, having a newgrf option for 'choose your canal appearance' would solve 90% of it 22:35:22 <TrueBrain> also means if you cut in the right place, a whole river can dry up, btw :P 22:35:29 <andythenorth> and option to build rapids 22:36:37 <TrueBrain> so I guess there are alternative solutions besides just making it indestructible; that seems to me to be the most gameplay invasive solution :P 22:38:50 <andythenorth> but it can have a setting! 22:38:59 <andythenorth> and we can add a regression test for the setting! 22:39:04 <andythenorth> and let AIs test for it! 22:39:06 <andythenorth> and GS! 22:39:11 <andythenorth> and write a wiki page! 22:39:33 <andythenorth> bad andythenorth 22:39:54 <frosch123> TrueBrain: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1884 <- hmm, i thought there were gui icons... 22:40:07 <frosch123> oh wait... there is already an icon in scenario editor 22:40:09 <frosch123> silly me 22:40:17 * andythenorth wants a setting that turns Excel into Word, and another that makes it into Outlook 22:40:23 <frosch123> i was looking for the old patch, just for the icon :p 22:40:26 <TrueBrain> :D 22:41:12 <frosch123> andythenorth: since when can ships cross river slopes? 22:41:17 <frosch123> you have to build locks 22:41:24 <andythenorth> yes 22:42:00 <andythenorth> do we differ on meaning of 'upstream' or something else I wrote? :) 22:42:49 <glx> I think "upstream" was implicitely without building anything 22:43:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLxXo 22:43:55 <TrueBrain> I meant upstream on a slope 22:43:59 <TrueBrain> I was not clear enough :D 22:44:15 <andythenorth> yeah ships can't traverse rapids 22:44:18 <andythenorth> needs a lock 22:44:51 <TrueBrain> ah .. okay, that at least makes the canal + lock consistent 22:45:35 <FLHerne> frosch123: re. examples -- I think they're useful for people learning NML, although the current ones aren't great 22:45:55 <andythenorth> current examples, all I get from them is guilt that I haven't made them better 22:46:03 * andythenorth should get a therapist :P 22:46:11 <FLHerne> They're better than nothing 22:46:42 <FLHerne> And since no-one else has improved them either, that means they're a positive contribution :p 22:46:56 <andythenorth> I think it's hard to have an nml feature PR without an example 22:47:06 <frosch123> hmm, industries are the only thing in game you can build but not destroy... do rich companies block other companies by encircling them with industries? :p 22:47:07 <andythenorth> but maybe the regression tests work better for that 22:47:19 <andythenorth> frosch123 interesting griefing idea 22:47:31 <TrueBrain> frosch123: pretty sure that "buy land" is cheaper :P 22:47:44 <andythenorth> next livestream, circular industry layouts 22:47:46 <andythenorth> town-sized 22:47:48 <TrueBrain> but yes, I might have put industries down in places people want to build :D 22:48:11 <andythenorth> hmm 22:48:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: haha, you should definitely have a firs industry with an enclosed but empty center 22:48:33 <andythenorth> circular industry round a town, it can accept and produce various cargos, but taxes them 22:48:42 <andythenorth> 'tax' 22:49:19 <andythenorth> frosch123 only if I can put a river in it 22:49:26 <andythenorth> not a canal 22:50:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8517: Codechange: Make void tiles flood edge tiles, instead of edge tiles flooding themselves https://git.io/JLxXd 22:51:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8063: Fix #8055: Always allow building any available roadtypes, even if there are no road vehicles available https://git.io/JLxXx 22:52:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8521: Change: always allow to click on the toolbar icons for road/rail/dock/airport https://git.io/JLxXh 22:52:34 <frosch123> that airport sprite is so unclear, i thought it was some graphics bug :) 22:52:50 <frosch123> night 22:52:55 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:53:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8521: Change: always allow to click on the toolbar icons for road/rail/dock/airport https://git.io/JLx6I 22:53:54 <TrueBrain> LOL! Okay, that was a nice find :D 22:53:55 <TrueBrain> oops :D 22:54:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8521: Change: always allow to click on the toolbar icons for road/rail/dock/airport https://git.io/JLx1t 22:54:52 <TrueBrain> LordAro: is it okay if I merge, or will you update your STL min/max soon? :) (I can wait, really) 22:55:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8517: Codechange: Make void tiles flood edge tiles, instead of edge tiles flooding themselves https://git.io/JLx1Y 22:56:28 <TrueBrain> owh, that just cracked me up andythenorth :) 22:58:02 <LordAro> TrueBrain: not sure i'll get to it tonight 22:58:04 <glx> I agree for the shores, it's the other stuff I don't understand 22:58:29 <TrueBrain> glx: I really don't know why that last chunk :P 22:58:48 <TrueBrain> LordAro: no worries; I will just wait, I came to realise .. there is no rush :) 22:59:01 <TrueBrain> and the less conflicts you have, the less chance something is forgotten :D 22:59:15 <andythenorth> I never tire of this https://e2d.964.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/NoPonyForYou.jpg 22:59:23 <TrueBrain> glx: but yeah, abusing MP_VOID to silently be MP_WATER is a hack; not sure it is a bad hack btw .. but it is a hack for sure :) 22:59:53 <TrueBrain> also, MP_VOID is only there in 2 of the 4 borders, if I am not mistaken 22:59:58 <TrueBrain> the two south directions 23:00:56 * andythenorth must to sleep 23:00:59 <glx> depends on freeform edges I think 23:01:02 <andythenorth> or things will get...rong 23:01:05 <andythenorth> bye 23:01:07 <glx> (not checked) 23:01:08 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:01:27 <TrueBrain> there is another setting influencing it, I believe 23:01:41 <TrueBrain> wait, no freeform edges indeed 23:01:48 <TrueBrain> that influence if there is an MP_VOID at all :P 23:02:48 <Eddi|zuHause> there's always an MP_VOID, just freeform edges makes more of them 23:05:04 <TrueBrain> with freeform edges, yes, but without it, I believe it was symmetrical or something weird 23:07:07 <TrueBrain> euh, or the other way around .. ugh, it is a mess, that I remember :P 23:07:20 <TrueBrain> if freeform-edges is on, x,0 and 0,y are made into a void 23:07:40 <TrueBrain> opening up the code works better :D 23:07:59 <TrueBrain> so the north border is fully MP_VOID with freeform 23:08:11 <TrueBrain> this was to give the overhanging effect, I believe? 23:08:25 <TrueBrain> as that border prevents you from seeing slopes, not? 23:08:56 <glx> it's for height calculation too IIRC 23:09:06 <glx> as it needs an adjacent tile 23:09:18 <Eddi|zuHause> without freeform borders, you have MP_VOID only at the southern end, with freeform map you have also at northern border 23:09:39 <TrueBrain> one of those weird quirks in OpenTTD :P 23:10:19 <Eddi|zuHause> but the issue can only exist with freeform borders 23:10:56 <TrueBrain> haha, funny, the places that make it MP_VOID are miles apart in the code 23:10:56 <glx> yes because non freeform is always an island 23:11:28 <TrueBrain> north-border is done in map generators, south-border in InitializeLandscape 23:11:31 <TrueBrain> that is not confusing at all :D 23:11:44 <glx> welcome to openttd source :) 23:12:14 <TrueBrain> we should just remove the freeform as a setting honestly :P 23:12:14 <TrueBrain> simpler code :D 23:14:04 <TrueBrain> anyway, that brings us back to the PR, it is a hack to use MP_VOID for that, but I guess it kinda works 23:16:11 <TrueBrain> just that last chunk, I cannot place .. meh .. I spend too much time deciphering his PRs :P 23:17:16 *** gelignite has quit IRC 23:20:41 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 23:23:34 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 23:27:14 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:27:19 *** nielsm has quit IRC 23:34:08 <glx> after better reading the diff, I now understand the issue (but that really should be explained in the description) 23:34:32 <TrueBrain> owh yes, he is terrible in explaining what is going on etc, which makes us spend waaaaayyyyyy too much time on reviews 23:34:41 <TrueBrain> and you have to second guess EVERYTHING 23:35:14 <glx> basically edge tiles are supposed to self flood, but the check is too strict and most of them don't flood 23:35:35 <TrueBrain> haha, well, that is a completely different story indeed :) 23:36:21 <glx> and giving flood power to MP_VOID solves it nicely indeed 23:36:43 <TrueBrain> - if (!IsValidTile(dest)) continue; 23:36:43 <TrueBrain> + if (dest >= MapSize()) continue; 23:36:46 <TrueBrain> this .. this is just weird 23:36:54 <glx> yeah that's part I don't get 23:37:09 <TrueBrain> well, IsValidTile returns false on MP_VOID 23:37:15 <TrueBrain> but I don't see why that is a problem 23:37:21 <TrueBrain> at the very least, it should have been a comment 23:40:22 <TrueBrain> feels like he fiddled till it worked 23:40:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnig 23:40:31 <glx> as always 23:42:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 commented on pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLxD1 23:45:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8517: Codechange: Make void tiles flood edge tiles, instead of edge tiles flooding themselves https://git.io/JLxDb 23:45:37 <TrueBrain> milek7: how we say in Dutch: "lekker bezig!", which is a nice compliment :) 23:45:45 <glx> may help others to understand too :) 23:48:05 <glx> but really we should not have to read the diff to get the problem 23:54:56 <TrueBrain> someone is repackaging other's people NewGRF work and uploading it to BaNaNaS .. most of it valid by license, and by-passes our "are you the author?" question, as it is a repack.. it might not be invalid, but sure it isn't by the spirit 23:55:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants https://git.io/JLxKw 23:55:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants https://git.io/JLNcq 23:56:15 <TrueBrain> YOU FORGOT ONE LordAro ?! :o :o 23:56:17 <TrueBrain> HOW DARE YOU! 23:56:41 <LordAro> D: 23:56:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8502: Codechange: Remove min/max functions in favour of STL variants https://git.io/JLxyr 23:57:13 <TrueBrain> what is the worst that can happen 23:57:14 <TrueBrain> :D 23:58:11 <TrueBrain> if you want to install a coinminer in OpenTTD, these are the PRs to do that with :) 23:59:01 <TrueBrain> awh, it fails :( 23:59:13 <LordAro> aw 23:59:22 <LordAro> what did i miss this time? 23:59:28 <TrueBrain> win32_s and xaudio2_s 23:59:38 <TrueBrain> can't blame you for those :) 23:59:43 <TrueBrain> shall we just remove them instead?