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00:19:29 *** nielsm has quit IRC 00:21:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb 00:23:24 <Timberwolf> I'm getting too used to Go refusing to compile code with an unused variable. 00:27:54 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 00:29:01 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 00:33:34 *** rptr_ has joined #openttd 00:33:34 *** rptr has quit IRC 00:53:05 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:21:42 *** gelignite has quit IRC 01:28:26 *** Progman has quit IRC 01:58:07 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 02:58:44 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 03:04:35 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 03:13:46 *** heffer has joined #openttd 03:13:55 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:17:18 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:45:25 *** ekangmonyet_ has quit IRC 03:55:39 *** glx has quit IRC 06:39:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac opened pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/JLhF7 06:46:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/JLhF7 07:09:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/JLhF7 07:21:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/JLhF7 07:35:17 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 07:39:59 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:43:05 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:53:06 <andythenorth> yo 08:09:19 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:10:12 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 08:35:36 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 08:36:01 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 08:36:30 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 08:43:53 <TrueBrain> wow, what a PR. Good motivations, description, and code looks good to me .. lol, what is happening :D 08:45:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/JLhx5 08:57:29 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 09:12:28 <andythenorth> livery_types then with labels and name strings 09:12:33 <andythenorth> such lol 09:13:04 <andythenorth> liivery_type subtypes also 09:15:03 <andythenorth> common livery_type label scheme 09:27:02 *** Tirili has quit IRC 09:37:30 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 09:54:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic commented on pull request #8550: Feature: "Remove all industries" button in scenario editor https://git.io/JLhhQ 09:54:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure that's the main reason we SHOULDN'T have such a property 09:57:52 <andythenorth> it wouldn't be just a property at that point 09:57:56 <andythenorth> it would be a newgrf feature 09:58:00 <andythenorth> with action 0 and so forth 09:58:13 * andythenorth is just following one route to logical conclusion 09:58:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not awake enogh to follow that conclusion 09:59:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic updated pull request #8550: Feature: "Remove all industries" button in scenario editor https://git.io/JLhwv 10:00:24 <andythenorth> if liveries are a concept that exists beyond a specific vehicle 10:00:32 <andythenorth> then they need an entity to define them 10:01:06 <andythenorth> 'if' 10:09:29 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 10:14:23 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:14:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic commented on pull request #8550: Feature: "Remove all industries" button in scenario editor https://git.io/JLhjX 10:45:33 *** Progman has joined #openttd 10:51:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/JLnqJ 11:08:44 <Samu> weird diff 11:12:10 <Samu> glx isn't around t.t https://i.imgur.com/KwYcWCX.png 11:12:53 <Samu> the generated log file is adding extra lines 11:13:04 <Samu> on stuff that wasn't changed, because of ";" 11:16:03 <LordAro> Samu: aha, that's a newline character (ish) in cmake 11:16:13 <LordAro> convert your stuff to use ':' like everything else 11:16:20 <LordAro> or that stuff 11:16:22 <LordAro> whatever 11:16:44 <Samu> you mean, a new PR changing all ; into : 11:17:05 <LordAro> well, in that output, yes 11:17:16 <LordAro> in both the regression AIs and the expected output 11:22:36 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 11:26:08 <frosch123> i don't get 8552... doesn't that completely break cargodist? 11:26:43 <frosch123> the whole point of feeder services is to have intermediate stations that do not accept a cargo 11:28:13 <TrueBrain> I think this is one of these things that confuses new players mostly, that implicit all of a sudden can get cargo, from how I understand it 11:28:21 <TrueBrain> but I never played with cargodist, so what do I know :D :) 11:28:37 <frosch123> well, that is already solved now, by changing the default settings 11:28:57 <TrueBrain> non-stop is default now? Yeah, I guess that solves the issue too ;) 11:29:49 <frosch123> i think 8552 tries to turn non-non-stop to behave like non-stop, which is entirely pointless? 11:30:10 <TrueBrain> depends on the reason why implicits were created I guess 11:30:12 <michi_cc> Apparently cargodist will create a link if e.g. a coal train auto-stops at a pax-only station and will forcefully use it to transfer cargo between trains (that what I understood at least, never use no-non-stop orders myself). 11:30:17 <TrueBrain> is it done for cargodist? 11:30:57 <frosch123> implicit orders are for cargodist, yes 11:30:59 <TrueBrain> (I was honestly confused by the implicit orders, what they do and why they show up :D But I am a newbie player in those regards :P) 11:31:03 <TrueBrain> so yeah, that invalidates the PR :) 11:31:14 <andythenorth> everyone is confused by implicit orders 11:31:19 <andythenorth> but no better way was found :) 11:31:19 <frosch123> TrueBrain: without cargodist, the player decides where vehicles load, unload or transfer cargos 11:31:31 <frosch123> with cargodist, cargodist decides where to load, unload or transfer 11:31:36 <TrueBrain> I guess that is why I was confused what they did, the implicit orders :D 11:31:43 <frosch123> for that cargodist has to know where vehicles stop, so it needs implicit orders 11:31:49 <frosch123> to track intermediate stations 11:40:31 <Samu> is this a good commit name? Fix: No semicolon in regression output 11:40:51 <Samu> i'm unsure how to describe 11:41:00 <Samu> CMake uses ; to create newline 11:41:14 <LordAro> Samu: "Fix: Remove semicolons from regression output" 11:41:30 <LordAro> technically speaking, the cmake script should be escaping the ';' 11:41:34 <LordAro> but that's a separate problem 11:41:59 <Samu> i think we should wait for glx 11:42:05 <Samu> see what he has to say 11:42:46 <Samu> but ill make the PR anyway, just in case it's needed 11:43:01 <Samu> just dont merge asap before glx has a say 11:43:18 <LordAro> lol, sure 11:43:33 <TrueBrain> LordAro < glx, good to know :) 11:43:40 <LordAro> :c 11:44:36 <Samu> no, it's because it's due to a change yesterday night 11:44:41 <Samu> glx created 11:44:54 <TrueBrain> I am totally fine with LordAro < glx, it is not a complain, just a mere observation :D 11:45:05 <LordAro> wow. 11:45:09 <TrueBrain> <3 11:45:15 <LordAro> :p 11:45:29 <TrueBrain> sorry, that was just too easy :P 11:45:36 <LordAro> oh, i quite agree 11:45:40 <TrueBrain> :D 11:45:41 <LordAro> anyway, what needs reviewing/rebasing? 11:45:49 <TrueBrain> scroll patch of yours! 11:46:07 <LordAro> ah yes 11:46:10 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/milestone/3 <- basically, that :) 11:47:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/JLjJ2 11:48:09 <frosch123> do we have any cargodist expert left? 11:48:19 <TrueBrain> I promote michi_cc 11:48:34 <frosch123> i misread 8552 as changing the station acceptance rule. but it actually changes the input to the cargoflow planner 11:48:46 <michi_cc> I'm not a cargodIst expert at all. 11:49:08 <frosch123> so, my initial confusion was wrong, but i still do not know enough about that code :) 11:49:29 <TrueBrain> I never understood cargodist, sadly enough 11:49:35 <TrueBrain> same with cargodest 11:50:19 <michi_cc> I can tell you about cargodest; how I envision it to work when I finish it in 100 years :P 11:50:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8553: Fix: Remove semicolons from regression output https://git.io/JLjJP 11:50:29 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: haha :D 11:50:38 * andythenorth votes don't touch cargodist, back away 11:50:42 <TrueBrain> is that before or after the economy revamp Celestar is working on? 11:50:58 <michi_cc> Hey, YACD is a patch, it's not vaporware :) 11:51:11 <frosch123> there was a svn branch for economy :p 11:51:22 <TrueBrain> there are PDFs for economy 11:51:24 <TrueBrain> like .. real papers 11:51:34 <LordAro> this->vscroll->GetCount() - this->vscroll->GetCapacity() 11:51:46 <LordAro> have i forgotten how scrollbars work, or is this always negative? 11:52:00 <TrueBrain> what does GetCount do? 11:52:03 <TrueBrain> total items in the list? 11:52:13 <TrueBrain> as in that case, no 11:52:25 <LordAro> ah right 11:52:26 <TrueBrain> well, it might 11:52:30 <frosch123> TrueBrain: yeah, sadly noone of them notices the fundamental problem: if you do not have enough money in ottd, you have to wait for money to pile up. so "trying to make the game harder" usually ends up with "making the game more boring by adding waiting times" 11:52:35 <TrueBrain> but these functions really confused me LordAro 11:52:59 * andythenorth never understood 'game needs to be harder' 11:53:04 * andythenorth is quite stupid though 11:53:30 <TrueBrain> frosch123: for me it always read that they confused "fun to play" with "has to be realistic" 11:53:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: do you remember that multiplayer ncg game with pikka 11:53:45 <frosch123> pikka was so interested to see people play with his set 11:53:55 <andythenorth> I remember a few 11:54:02 <frosch123> but everyone was just frustrated that there was barely enough money for one player to build something 11:54:07 <frosch123> while the rest was idling for two hours 11:54:11 <andythenorth> oh yes 11:54:15 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 11:54:24 <andythenorth> those MP GS games massively influenced my design choices 11:54:28 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 11:54:34 <andythenorth> FIRS got redesigned to scale cargo output easily 11:54:57 <TrueBrain> LordAro: if GetCount does return the amount of items in the list, maybe a GetItemCount would be a better name, tbh :P 11:55:08 <frosch123> iirc pikka added a setting to his set after that: divide all costs by 8 or so 11:55:11 <andythenorth> and I tried to keep the needle of vehicle cost + power pointing at 'you can make progress without waiting' 11:55:21 <michi_cc> Good multi-player design goals are probably very orthogonal to good single-player design goals. 11:55:27 <andythenorth> game needs to be richer, not harder 11:55:34 <andythenorth> just my £0.02 11:55:57 <andythenorth> I just played a 160 years of FIRS Steeltown because there's enough depth to it 11:56:06 <andythenorth> being 'harder' wouldn't have kept me playing 11:56:25 * andythenorth needs to start a new game 11:57:15 <andythenorth> the next 2 weeks will contain a lot of questions about JGRPP 11:59:01 <reldred> There's ways to make a game more difficult, beyond just making everything more expensive. For instance I like the depth that can be added by well designed train sets; deciding what branch of a tech tree to go down, I like super tall maps with heighmaps that introduce varieties of regions with different topology, the chalenges you then faced by trying to traverse that (One of the reasons I really want to see cliffs, more object 11:59:01 <reldred> obstacles) 11:59:34 <reldred> God what's JGR up to now andythenorth? I hadn't really seen anything have I missed some news? 11:59:41 <andythenorth> I don't know 12:00:04 <andythenorth> I have tried JGRPP before, and I find it quite overwhelming 12:00:14 <andythenorth> but there are too many reasons to switch 12:00:50 <reldred> Yeah JGRPP is my regular, I'm particularly fond of custom bridgeheads and things like the tweaked alpine tree growth. 12:00:51 <andythenorth> playing it requires pretty much constant questions 12:01:03 <andythenorth> but fortunately the discord is almost entirely JGRPP 12:01:43 <andythenorth> I keep asking newgrf design questions in discord and the answers are constantly 'solved in JGRPP' 12:02:09 <andythenorth> apparently all the livery subtypes crap is fixed 12:02:10 <reldred> Yeah that doesn't sound constructive. 12:02:23 <andythenorth> I think it's fine no? 12:02:41 <reldred> No I mean just saying 'jgr fixed it' and not really helping any further. 12:02:54 <Timberwolf> The problem with "harder" is most of the obvious options add linear difficulty to a game with an exponential growth curve. 12:03:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8552: Feature: Prevent vehicles to unload cargo in implicit stops in cargodist mode if the cargo is not accepted in such station https://git.io/JLjUZ 12:03:40 <reldred> Yeah see I'm not interested in 'harder', I'm interested in challenges and solving them 12:03:47 <reldred> Rather than just a race against the time/money clock. 12:03:59 <Timberwolf> You still eventually hit the elbow where everything you do brings in >1 times what it cost. Making that 1.0001 instead of 1.1 just means more time spent in that "waiting for trains to arrive" stage of the game. 12:05:10 <andythenorth> it's unlikely to go well, asking "how do I do X in vanilla" to people who are like "wtf are you talking about, that is solved?" :) 12:05:13 <andythenorth> anyway 12:05:16 * andythenorth tries it 12:05:18 <Timberwolf> In original TTD and Locomotion, the real difficulty is getting overwhelmed by busywork on a large network. 12:05:31 <andythenorth> +1 12:05:38 <reldred> I mean I geuss it depends how you play it? I mean you can setup a low cost low risk pax route between two cities and put it on fast forward and hit 2050 with millions in the bank 12:05:55 <reldred> that's a pretty boring way to play 12:06:22 <reldred> I mean I consider anything other than alpinist/maxheight255/very rough terrain to be basically cheating. But that's me, 12:06:25 <reldred> It's a sandbox game. 12:06:26 <Timberwolf> For me, the difficulty is not the money but the inevitable "I need 100 trains to arrive here every minute and... er... HOW" 12:06:57 <andythenorth> the scarce commodity is 'throughput' 12:07:00 <andythenorth> not 'money' 12:07:14 <frosch123> i liked playing settlers 1 in the 90s. the main difficulty was to make the weird transport mechanics deal with the vast amount of cargo. but i also knew people, who just left the game running for 5 hours unattended, until they had enough stuff produced 12:07:24 <Timberwolf> Which gets more challenging (and "fun") on rugose terrain with many obstacles. 12:07:58 <andythenorth> frosch123 apparently https://www.simpleguide.net/sg/serflings.jsf 12:08:18 <Timberwolf> frosch123: I have a friend who plays Factorio like that sometimes. 12:08:37 <Timberwolf> "I need 18 million green circuits, I'll just leave it running overnight" 12:11:30 <reldred> I mean you're never going to stop someone playing that way if they want. Even if you have some sort of random disasters system to keep people engaged people will demand the ability to turn it off (I mean I probably would, I make life hard enough for myself in other areas). 12:14:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #123: [de_DE] Translator access request https://git.io/JLhB2 12:18:33 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 12:20:35 <Samu> is this CMake error that kind of error that shouldn't happen? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/runs/1676425277?check_suite_focus=true#step:8:1855 12:22:45 <LordAro> that is a bit weird 12:23:26 <Eddi|zuHause> you're also never going to stop people building point-to-point routes in openttd, instead of complex networks 12:28:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8006: Codechange: Increase scrollbar length limit to UINT_MAX and make their length properly unsigned https://git.io/Jv8Vk 12:28:20 <reldred> Yup 12:28:22 <LordAro> pretty sure that's incorrect in places 12:28:53 <reldred> it's a sandbox game, people are going to play it however they want and however hard they want. 12:29:23 <reldred> some people play almost entirely for aesthetics and efficiency or profits are entirely on the backseat 12:31:17 <TrueBrain> LordAro: am I correct to assume you did not process all feedback in #8006 yet? 12:31:34 <LordAro> ah, no 12:31:36 <LordAro> that was just a rebase 12:31:53 <TrueBrain> k :) 12:46:19 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i'm thinking that a simple "underflow safe unsigned subtract" function might be a good idea 12:46:52 <LordAro> given the amount of times i've written it (probably incorrectly in places) 12:47:07 <TrueBrain> that would be even better, yes :) 12:47:18 <TrueBrain> generalizing hard-to-read-statements is always a good thing :D 12:47:43 <TrueBrain> frosch123: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8032 <- with this latest change, do you see any additional issues with this PR? 12:49:55 <LordAro> TrueBrain: now the hard bit is finding all of them 12:50:04 <TrueBrain> haha, yes 12:50:08 <TrueBrain> ": 0" is a give-away :P 12:53:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i think technically "0-1" in unsigned is still considered an "overflow". and "underflow" is used in floating point contexts where very small numbers are rounded to 0 12:54:00 <TrueBrain> you remember when we talked about this channel being often overly pedantic with no real added value? :P :D 12:54:26 <Eddi|zuHause> that's an occupational hazard :p 12:54:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JLjOp 12:54:49 <TrueBrain> tnx frosch123 ! 12:56:05 <frosch123> https://github.com/OpenTTD/BaNaNaS/pull/74 <- no need to be lonely, there is also stuff for you :) 12:56:16 <andythenorth> TrueBrain we talked about that?! Please, give me exact times and dates 12:56:28 *** DasPoseidon has joined #openttd 12:56:43 <TrueBrain> frosch123: :D 12:56:45 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: FU 12:56:53 <TrueBrain> <3 12:58:38 <andythenorth> I had a bet on how you would answer 12:58:43 <andythenorth> I was off by a single character 12:59:10 <TrueBrain> happy I did not disapoint 13:04:21 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 13:06:28 * andythenorth takes all the questions to discord 13:06:31 <frosch123> yay, i sent my first mail from the new mail account :p 13:06:32 <andythenorth> so many questions 13:06:50 <TrueBrain> frosch123: gratz! 13:06:56 <TrueBrain> how does that make you feel? 13:07:01 <frosch123> (it's so weird that credentialy of receiving and sending are independent) 13:07:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JvruE 13:07:27 <TrueBrain> I had that too the other day :P 13:08:13 <Eddi|zuHause> a propos, when i pushed the first time in a while, github sent me a "deprecation warning" email, should i worry? 13:08:26 <Eddi|zuHause> about logging in with password 13:08:48 <reldred> i think they're converting over to key based auth? 13:09:24 <reldred> which tbh kinda concerns me considering there's whole classes of malware now that focus entirely on compromising keys after AWS did similar 13:10:33 <TrueBrain> a key has a selected amount of permissions; so the malware no longer gets full access if it succeeds ;) 13:11:12 <TrueBrain> security is never about completely removing any risk; it is merely about reducing it to an acceptable and/or manageable level :) 13:11:27 <reldred> dunno, I memorize long passwords and would prefer to keep doing that. 13:11:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8553: Fix: Remove semicolons from regression output https://git.io/JLj3X 13:20:32 <andythenorth> fuck me 13:20:42 <andythenorth> I am a big fan of having patch packs as experiments 13:20:46 <TrueBrain> we talked about, and we kinda have to decline your offer 13:20:47 <andythenorth> it really is the way forward 13:21:04 <andythenorth> but this template stuff, is absolutely non-working 13:21:11 <andythenorth> it destroys existing trains 13:24:20 *** emeraldsnorlax[m] is now known as EmeraldSnorlax[m] 13:26:23 <andythenorth> it has 'use depot' 13:26:34 <andythenorth> oops wrong 13:27:50 <LordAro> reldred: https://xkcd.com/1172/ etc 13:28:29 <reldred> Lol 13:31:15 <andythenorth> this would be the worst livestream ever 13:31:20 <andythenorth> andythenorth tries to template-replace trains 13:31:30 <andythenorth> currently I am at 'wtf does it delete other trains for?' 13:31:34 <andythenorth> how is that useful? 13:31:38 <andythenorth> my face :P 13:34:04 <Timberwolf> This reminds me of the best excuse I ever heard for broken workflows, about 15 years ago when I was integrating some code which had been generated by an enthusiastic (but slightly lax on testing) developer in the Frankfurt office of place I worked at the time. 13:34:18 <Timberwolf> Sent an e-mail "I clicked on A then B, and got this crash". 13:34:29 <Timberwolf> Reply: "Germans would never click on things in that order." 13:37:05 <reldred> andythenorth: from my use of it you make templates, assign the templates to groups, and it auto replaces the trains in the group with the template. I didn’t really have too many problems with it. 13:37:20 <andythenorth> it absolutely just deletes trains 13:37:25 <andythenorth> I could video it doing it :) 13:37:43 <andythenorth> you have 4 trains in depot, set the templater going, now you have 3 13:37:50 <reldred> Huh, I dunno. I mean I use your sets almost exclusively. 13:47:11 <Samu> the regression savegame map doesn't have rivers, there's no way to test positive for IsRiverTile 13:47:19 <Samu> what do I do? 13:47:25 *** Progman has quit IRC 13:53:22 *** glx has joined #openttd 13:53:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 13:56:53 <LordAro> Samu: checking that it tests negative in various places will do half the work 13:57:14 <LordAro> difficult to add rivers to such an old map really, we'd need to create a new map 13:58:06 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 13:59:36 <Samu> i iterated all tiles, just for the sake of it, returned false for every tile 13:59:59 <Samu> now im reducing to just a few tiles 14:00:12 <glx> yeah, but a valid test should return true in some cases 14:00:30 <glx> as in really checking the function works 14:17:44 <Samu> do you mind if i change the TileArea rectangle where the water tests are done in the map? 14:17:59 <Samu> i found a better spot 14:18:21 <Samu> it tests over a ship depot, a dock, a canal tile, then ground and sea 14:18:47 <Samu> the current rectangle is just ground and sea 14:19:06 <glx> if there is more different stuff it's better I think 14:19:19 <glx> and you can test all functions on the same area 14:20:16 <glx> but you need to carefully check the result is correct 14:21:34 <Samu> oh, good idea 14:30:28 <Samu> testing this area [img]https://i.imgur.com/CTIs4jE.png[/img] 14:30:49 <Samu> let me get the current area 14:32:56 <Eddi|zuHause> am i blind? i can't find a .h file that declares SndPlayTileFx 14:33:11 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, right. i'm blind 14:36:05 <Samu> current area: [img]https://i.imgur.com/60eptN9.png[/img] 14:37:12 <glx> indeed the "new" area seems a better test case 14:37:47 <Samu> too bad the buoy is deleted by the time it tests 14:38:44 <Samu> there's always that care IsWaterTile on the buoy returning false 14:38:47 <Samu> case* 14:39:52 <glx> you can update the buoy stuff 14:40:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLjCZ 14:41:42 <glx> like depot and dock are removed then rebuilt 14:41:57 <glx> you can rebuild the buoy too 14:43:19 <glx> and the lock 14:45:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLDFp 14:46:30 <andythenorth> is it naptime? 14:47:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #8553: Fix: Remove semicolons from regression output https://git.io/JLjJP 14:48:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLDFp 14:48:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: is that before or after lunch? 14:49:04 <andythenorth> uncertain 14:49:42 <glx> ahah rebuilding buoy and dock changes some timings and affect vehicle age output 14:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause> so... crossing dingdingding. currently happens in two ways: a) a crossing with no PBS signals nearby dings when it is activated, b) a crossing with PBS signals dings when the train approaches 14:50:51 <Eddi|zuHause> should it always be case b)? 14:51:07 <glx> I vote b) 14:51:12 <glx> but maybe not easy 14:52:08 <glx> but dingding means closing for me 14:52:16 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 14:52:55 <Eddi|zuHause> well, currently, a PBS reservation closes the crossing, but doesn't ding 14:53:21 <glx> for me if it's closed it should ding 14:54:22 *** openttd_1 has joined #openttd 14:54:30 <openttd_1> hi! 14:54:33 <glx> ding from start of closing until fully open 14:55:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds... annoying 14:55:31 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i don't think the current sound effect can loop 14:55:44 <glx> but realistic ;) 14:56:28 <openttd_1> I would like to do some data analysis on the ongoing game, I'm looking for some API of the game which could let me access the data of my busses , trains, other stuff which i costing money 14:56:47 <openttd_1> in the end I would like to create a sort of statistical dashboard 14:56:52 <openttd_1> ( just for fun ) 14:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd_1: a GameScript that gathers the data and outputs it through either the debug console or adminport 14:58:17 <openttd_1> cool, so it's doable! 15:00:38 <openttd_1> I thought that GameScripts was only for AI 15:01:56 <glx> no they are similar, but very different 15:12:23 *** openttd_1 has quit IRC 15:14:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLDFp 15:29:48 <Samu> was wondering if I could include some aqueduct building into the area 15:30:18 <Samu> guess i rather not 15:30:43 <glx> will be a "big" bridge 15:30:58 <Samu> yes, then the area becomes too large, too many tiles printing 15:31:35 <glx> and bridge should not have effect on tile tests I think 15:32:43 <Samu> the IsWaterTile test 15:33:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/JLnqJ 15:35:05 <Samu> those age tests changed 15:37:26 <Samu> i verified the water, coast, canal tests, and yeah... they are "correct" 15:37:39 <Samu> at least, for what AI makers have to deal with 15:38:04 <Samu> ship depot is a Water tile, lock is a water tile 15:38:15 <Samu> but buoy is not 15:38:39 <Samu> coasts aren't water tiles 15:39:19 <Samu> even if they're halfcoasts 15:42:22 <Samu> lock isn't a canal 15:42:35 <Samu> which is another issue 15:42:40 <Samu> we have to deal with 15:43:30 <Samu> it's not straight forward what is what when dealing with water 15:52:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/JLj8n 15:59:12 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:02:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLDFp 16:05:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLj4T 16:10:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #8554: Allow NewGRF vehicles to query the track-type NewGRF about the current track-type https://git.io/JLj43 16:11:09 <andythenorth> o_O 16:12:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/JLj40 16:12:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 closed pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/fhI7h 16:12:43 *** openttd_1 has joined #openttd 16:14:42 <openttd_1> is there a way to send an httprequest with a game script? 16:15:24 <frosch123> the only connection from GS to the outside world is the admin port. 16:15:44 <frosch123> you can write a "proxy" that connects to the admin port and provides the stuff you need 16:15:54 <Xaroth> i was about to type: inb4 somebody suggests a proxy 16:15:58 <Xaroth> but you beat me to it, frosch123 16:16:07 <frosch123> i believe there is even a library to execute GS commands that were sent from the admin port 16:16:31 <Xaroth> yeah 16:17:18 <frosch123> openttd_1: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=68828 16:20:08 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:21:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8554: Allow NewGRF vehicles to query the track-type NewGRF about the current track-type https://git.io/JLj4d 16:22:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8554: Allow NewGRF vehicles to query the track-type NewGRF about the current track-type https://git.io/JLj43 16:22:30 <openttd_1> frosch123 that's interesting, I didn't know about the admin port 16:22:39 <frosch123> i am no longer user to ottd coding style :) 16:23:53 <frosch123> *used 16:24:34 <andythenorth> so I need something like getbits(var[0x63, 8, 0xFF, ELRL]), 2, 1) 16:24:54 <glx> oh your PR adds an unrelated fix ;) 16:25:08 <frosch123> openttd_1: https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/Server%20Admin%20Port%20Development https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/Server%20admin%20port <- there are plenty of libraries to interface it 16:27:18 <andythenorth> hmm ELRL like that isn't a valid param 16:27:52 <glx> there should be a label thing 16:28:19 <andythenorth> getbits(var[0x63, 8, 0xFF, railtype(ELRL)], 2, 1) might be better 16:28:25 <andythenorth> with fewer syntax errors also 16:28:52 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 16:28:54 <openttd_1> frosch123: thanks a lot, that's exactly what I was looking for 16:29:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: ELRL is the index, railtype(ELRL) is the label, or something 16:29:39 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: also, you don't need getbits, you adjust the "8" and "0xFF" 16:29:40 <glx> railtype is the index in translation table 16:29:40 <andythenorth> thanks, the problem was the syntax error 16:32:09 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause so to pick bit 2? 16:33:25 <Eddi|zuHause> var[0x63, 2, 1, ...] i believe 16:33:47 *** openttd_1 has quit IRC 16:35:27 <glx> var[<num>, <shift>, <mask>, <param>] 16:35:43 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. you shift 2 bits, and mask 1 bit 16:36:15 <andythenorth> confirmed bit 2 works as expected with nutracks 16:36:22 <andythenorth> I'll do a more complete test 16:36:38 <andythenorth> not sure how I'll do backwards compatibility with older openttd 16:36:45 <andythenorth> maybe branch switches? 16:36:47 *** Speedy` has quit IRC 16:38:52 <Eddi|zuHause> does old openttd care about unknown variables? 16:39:06 <Eddi|zuHause> also, why? 16:39:23 <Eddi|zuHause> old openttd can still use old newgrf version 16:39:47 <andythenorth> just use bananas min. compatible? 16:39:51 <andythenorth> that's what FIRS does 16:40:20 <glx> openttd returns 0xFFFFFFFF for unknown 16:40:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, then they won't be able to update unless they also update openttd. 16:41:52 *** Speedy` has joined #openttd 16:43:07 <andythenorth> that might coincide nicely 16:43:36 <andythenorth> I am going to use the inflation warning, and put railtypes into Horse that rely on the curve speed fix 16:43:43 <andythenorth> so 1.11 min. then 16:44:50 <andythenorth> more UK royal engine liveries for frosch123, who is now interested in them :P https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/britaingeneralrail/h7C7E706D#h7c7e706d 16:44:56 <andythenorth> now / not /s probably 16:45:05 <andythenorth> 'pls send grf with that livery' 16:47:21 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: right, i get that #7000 didn't age well, and mixed too much stuff, and didn't handle NRT on account of not having existed yet. ... but you dropped all the Action7 stuff, and complain that there's no usecase when there was... 16:50:05 <glx> can be added later I guess 17:08:02 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 17:08:02 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 17:08:38 *** qwebirc63162 has joined #openttd 17:10:29 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Could I bother you for an OSX test whenever convenient? I noticed some strange things which might or might not be caused by me using only a virtual machine. 17:10:35 <Eddi|zuHause> also RE: "please consider all cases before submitting a PR" ... this isn't ever going to happen. i have a silly idea, i code it, submit it publicly for comments, and then refine it until it is either considered "finished" or i lose interest. but if i don't act on this first impulse, nothing is ever going to happen 17:11:25 <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't think draft PRs existed back then 17:15:04 *** qwebirc63162 has quit IRC 17:15:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] saveinthesky commented on issue #8501: OTTD crashes on start macosx . Log https://git.io/JLNID 17:21:13 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 17:21:28 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 17:25:17 <andythenorth> michi_cc is there a PR? :) 17:25:33 <michi_cc> andythenorth: https://gist.github.com/michicc/2536e5d15bd268cde4d365205a6f61ff 17:25:44 <andythenorth> ok 17:25:55 <michi_cc> There is no PR, I've just noticed strange things for me. But a VM might mess with timing. 17:26:37 * andythenorth always forgets p1 instead of p0 17:26:43 <michi_cc> Things to watch for: frame rate (in the framerate window) right now and after applying the patch, both in normal and in fast forward. 17:27:05 <andythenorth> for current master, or will a recent binary do? 17:27:07 <michi_cc> I get a totally inconsistent behaviour for something that should be absolutely identical. 17:27:15 <michi_cc> Recent will do 17:29:04 <michi_cc> With the patch I get a lot more FPS in fast forward, but also a higher variance in FPS in normal speed. Which is very illogical. 17:29:34 <frosch123> andythenorth: using "unknown variables" will pick the first switch option 17:29:48 <andythenorth> thanks 17:29:50 <frosch123> not sure whether you can control what becomes the first option in nml 17:30:07 <andythenorth> I'll just bump openttd version, assuming this PR makes 1.11 17:31:08 <Eddi|zuHause> you used to be able to check for 1.11-alpha vs release, but i don't know if that survived the github move 17:32:28 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 17:32:33 <andythenorth> did we add a chart to FPS? 17:32:40 <andythenorth> or was that the mac profiler I used? 17:32:44 * andythenorth can't remember 17:32:48 <michi_cc> Click on the respective time. 17:33:46 <glx> <Eddi|zuHause> you used to be able to check for 1.11-alpha vs release, but i don't know if that survived the github move <-- still available, only svn rev stuff is no longer updated 17:33:52 <andythenorth> thanks 17:36:53 <michi_cc> andythenorth: I don't need any scientific study, just saying same or different is quite enough for now :P 17:37:20 <michi_cc> I.e. just new game, empty map. 17:45:08 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 17:45:34 * andythenorth BRB - cooking :) 17:56:50 <andythenorth> michi_cc nothing obviously different between the gist and 1.10.2 17:57:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8554: Allow NewGRF vehicles to query the track-type NewGRF about the current track-type https://git.io/JLj43 17:59:14 <andythenorth> 1.10.2 pushes a higher graphics FPS generally, but there are other variables like map etc 17:59:28 <andythenorth> I have a release build of the gist 17:59:42 <michi_cc> It's probably some virtual machine thing. But I get a fastforward (without full anim) of 200 fps normally and like 1000 fps with the patch. 18:00:04 <michi_cc> Might be differences in virtualized CPU tick timing though. 18:01:36 <andythenorth> oh this is weird 18:01:41 <andythenorth> with full anim off 18:01:44 * andythenorth restarts the game 18:02:22 <andythenorth> michi_cc with full anim off, it runs so fast it's in permanent autosave :P 18:02:29 <andythenorth> and graphics FPS shows 50 18:02:43 <michi_cc> Okay, that matches my observations. 18:03:02 <michi_cc> I have more fps fluctuations in normal speed though. 18:03:24 <andythenorth> ok with autosave off, it's running insanely fast 18:03:31 <andythenorth> but mostly failing to update the UI 18:03:48 <andythenorth> yeah it will do about 1 year / s 18:03:59 <andythenorth> but graphics FPS is 10 18:04:25 <andythenorth> (this is with ffwd) 18:04:26 <michi_cc> Okay, 10 is a bit low. 18:04:40 <andythenorth> it fails to track mouse etc as well 18:04:46 <andythenorth> it's like UI is desynced 18:05:33 <andythenorth> FPS 0.98 :) 18:05:38 <andythenorth> after a sustained FFWD 18:07:31 *** DasPoseidon has quit IRC 18:08:49 <michi_cc> Okay. One more test. I but a second diff on https://gist.github.com/michicc/2536e5d15bd268cde4d365205a6f61ff, should not conflict with the first. 18:09:59 <michi_cc> Use it in addition, not instead of. 18:10:31 <andythenorth> 'assume -R' ? 18:10:53 <michi_cc> Hmm, no??? 18:11:02 <andythenorth> thought not 18:11:46 <andythenorth> these diffs look the same in raw 18:12:00 <michi_cc> https://gist.githubusercontent.com/michicc/2536e5d15bd268cde4d365205a6f61ff/raw/7131061d120de46cbcb23cab815e017a6bb4c799/sec.diff 18:12:02 <andythenorth> oh I see 18:12:06 <michi_cc> The first on is completely unchanged. 18:12:23 <andythenorth> I missed the second, raw gives each diff, not the whole gist , my mistake 18:13:54 <TrueBrain> holy crap, reading that new PR makes me realise I really really do not understand NewGRFs :P Well, code-wise it looks good, best I can tell :D 18:15:05 <TrueBrain> some mad respect to anyone who understands this :D 18:16:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i think nobody completely understands it, which is partly why #7000 went so out of hand. everyone understood a different thing, or the same thing differently... 18:18:27 <andythenorth> michi_cc behaviour with second diff is similar 18:20:13 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 18:20:56 <andythenorth> is it just concidence that full anim makes such a difference to this specific behaviour? 18:21:03 <andythenorth> coincidence * 18:22:36 *** qwebirc37973 has joined #openttd 18:24:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production and transported with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JLHah 18:24:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8554: Allow NewGRF vehicles to query the track-type NewGRF about the current track-type https://git.io/JLju2 18:25:42 <TrueBrain> the | for return values confused me for a bit .. kept reading || :D 18:25:50 <TrueBrain> funny, how a mind fills in things that are not there :) 18:25:52 <Samu> TrueBrain ::SetDParam(0, 1 << cargo_type); visual studio complains with warning C4334: '<<': result of 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits (was 64-bit shift intended?) 18:25:56 * andythenorth wonders what to call the nml vars 18:26:53 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i also don't always manage to separate | vs || 18:27:12 <andythenorth> maybe "var[0x63, x, y, LABL]" is good enough 18:27:17 <andythenorth> :P 18:27:30 <TrueBrain> call it the andy-var? :D 18:27:34 <TrueBrain> I just like calling things silly 18:28:01 <glx> Samu: it should be a 64bit value, probably needs explicit 18:28:23 <andythenorth> nml authors have it too easy, they're not learning enough hex 18:28:24 <frosch123> TrueBrain: feel free to add "provide a newgrf that proofs that this is usable at all" to the PR template :p 18:28:43 <TrueBrain> haha, that is not a bad idea honestly :P 18:28:55 <frosch123> 7000 contained so much stuff, that made so little sense, that if i would have to write a newgrf to use it, i would rather quit trying 18:28:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: adding nml vars is easy, just remember the "x" and "y" and give it a name 18:29:01 <TrueBrain> but I am afraid people really than give a .grf, instead of anything I can read :) 18:29:02 *** qwebirc37973 has quit IRC 18:30:31 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: andy had a test grf, before it grew out of hand 18:30:39 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Okay, then I will shelve that for now. Fast fast-forward is nice, but a broken GUI is not. 18:30:49 <andythenorth> it's very fast :) 18:31:17 <andythenorth> 8554 needs added to https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/NewGRF/Specification%20Status 18:31:24 <andythenorth> I can do it later if that helps 18:31:42 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:32:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JLjuF 18:32:01 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:32:15 <TrueBrain> you think frosch123 is going to forget that andythenorth ? Thy of little faith :D 18:32:29 <frosch123> andythenorth: this time i use strike-through in the review-TODO list, like i saw in other PR. not sure whether that makes it more readable though 18:32:48 <TrueBrain> we should use "- [ ]" I guess 18:32:51 <TrueBrain> so it can be checked off :D 18:33:04 <Samu> "show potential fixes" tells me to do this: ::SetDParam(0, static_cast<uint64>(1) << cargo_type); 18:33:06 <andythenorth> I misread approved and merged, my silly 18:34:04 <TrueBrain> :D 18:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the wording made it sound like that striking should be done by the reviewers instead of the pr authors 18:35:01 <andythenorth> I am glad I don't have shoelaces in my shoes, I'm not sure I could tie them some days 18:35:22 <TrueBrain> I'm not sure others think I tied them, you meant :P 18:35:23 <TrueBrain> :D 18:36:09 <frosch123> i learnt that there are two methods to tie shows 2 years ago 18:36:21 <frosch123> and i actually switched the method 18:36:30 <TrueBrain> its crazy, isn't it? :D 18:36:40 <frosch123> didn't expect people at my age would be capable to switch the habit of such a basic thing 18:37:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i've used 2 main methods to tie shoe laces in my life. in the beginning, i sat there smiling, until someone came around to tie them for me, and later i tied them once and never untied them 18:38:51 <frosch123> my niece was scolded in 1st grade in school because she helped others close the zipper of their jackets, so they would never learn to do it themself 18:40:05 <Eddi|zuHause> my mom always tells this story how she came to pick me up from kindergarten, and said "tie your shoes", and i did that. then the teachers there were suprised "wait? he can do that?" :p 18:42:05 <andythenorth> I think 11 years later (almost to the day) 18:42:07 <andythenorth> is a good time 18:42:12 <andythenorth> to revisit this https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=847034#p847034 18:48:05 <frosch123> you edited it in 2017 :p 18:49:11 <andythenorth> so I did 18:49:12 <frosch123> "ford tiles" sounds like the reverse of hovercraft 18:49:13 <andythenorth> "multi-mode vehicles, e.g. road-rail; hovercraft on land, amphibious trucks etc." 18:49:29 <andythenorth> there are so many 'done' ponies to add though 18:49:48 <frosch123> did you watch some western movies at the time? or do you know roadvehicles which commonly drive through water? 18:50:10 <glx> we have hovercraft on land ;) 18:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause> "ford-tiles" would be a special case of "objects with road state machine" 18:50:38 <andythenorth> I honestly can't remember frosch123 :) 18:50:56 <andythenorth> it was probably an excuse to justify bulldozers or something 18:53:56 <andythenorth> I suspect this video caused it, date is close (turn sound off) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lym_fL6KMhA 18:54:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8555: Fix 218f40e: Warning about 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits https://git.io/JLjzy 18:54:06 * andythenorth awaits SpinTires mac build 18:54:43 <Samu> visual studio added a newline at the end of file 18:54:50 <Samu> can't make it not do it 18:58:06 *** DasPoseidon has joined #openttd 18:59:14 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I think that one would just underscore how incompatible OpenTTD's vehicle scales are 18:59:25 <FLHerne> tram-trains might just about work 18:59:52 <FLHerne> Hovercraft or amphibious trucks would look silly 19:00:11 <andythenorth> FLHerne Hovercraft would never happen 19:00:16 <andythenorth> game engine won't support it 19:00:30 <FLHerne> I thought frosch did it? 19:00:35 <FLHerne> For a given value of 'it 19:00:37 <FLHerne> ' 19:00:41 <andythenorth> I might be lying, for effect 19:01:12 <FLHerne> And that demonstration proved that it does indeed look really silly :p 19:02:06 <andythenorth> we should be more adventurous 19:02:15 <andythenorth> belts for the next livestream, or go home 19:07:50 <TrueBrain> inserts! 19:10:07 <andythenorth> or I could just make a pipe grf with NRT 19:10:37 * andythenorth wonders about 'no junctions' somehow, but how to attach depots then? 19:15:08 <frosch123> "no junctions" is fine for towns, but silly for humans 19:15:37 <frosch123> AIs are somewhere inbetween 19:19:50 <andythenorth> I wonder if RL pipelines have junctions 19:19:53 <andythenorth> I presume so 19:19:58 <andythenorth> just some valves I guess 19:21:35 <frosch123> of course they have junctions 19:22:08 <frosch123> gas pipelines from russia do not daisy-chain through all of europe 19:22:25 <frosch123> there are different types of valves 19:22:45 <frosch123> proper one which can be remote-controlled and which can be opened in percentages to regulate flow 19:23:05 <frosch123> and cheap ones all over the place to isolate area that need maintainance 19:23:48 <frosch123> though you keep the gas pressure on the pipe while working on the outside 19:24:01 <frosch123> it's better to have pressured gas inside, that leaks at some points 19:24:28 <frosch123> than insufficient pressure inside that may make oxygen leak inside 19:25:30 <frosch123> though if needed, yuo can also fill the inside with pressured nitrogen. complicated but with both advantages 19:25:44 <frosch123> does it show i wrote software for that once? 19:29:37 <andythenorth> maybe you just like pipelines :) 19:30:06 * andythenorth contemplates one pipe from Russia per destination, TTO style 19:37:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8501: OTTD crashes on start macosx . Log https://git.io/JLNID 19:56:28 <andythenorth> Update! https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1240361#p1240361 19:56:39 <andythenorth> I snuck a made one in an at the end 19:56:41 <andythenorth> mad * 19:57:46 <FLHerne> "...and use it to offer an additional cargo" 19:58:04 <andythenorth> that's not the mad one :) 19:58:12 <FLHerne> Can't we just *not* use absurd hacks that made sense when binary-patching a game written in 1990s asm? 19:58:38 <andythenorth> you have no respect for tradition :D 20:00:54 <Timberwolf> Bring back the creating a sign named "cht: x y" interface. 20:01:23 <andythenorth> is my pony list open for contributions 20:01:31 <andythenorth> should I have made a discussion first? :P 20:02:45 <andythenorth> FLHerne you think 16 separate holds might be better? o_O 20:02:56 * andythenorth dreads to imagine the cargo sprite generation for that :P 20:04:33 <Timberwolf> Good news is I made about 2 hours of videos using #8540 today without anything untoward happening sprite-wise. 20:06:04 <andythenorth> \o/ 20:06:17 <andythenorth> hmm I probably don't to rerun cmake when I pull remote? 20:06:19 <andythenorth> in most cases? 20:10:06 <Timberwolf> There is an entirely unprompted "that looks good and industrial doesn't it? Good job Andy on that, that's very well done. Let's just admire the industrialness of that" in one of them after I scroll to a carbon black plant for the first time :) 20:10:23 <glx> <Samu> visual studio added a newline at the end of file <-- visual studio is right, we used to check/enforce newline at end of file, dunno if it's still the case 20:10:41 <Timberwolf> It is a very good sprite! 20:13:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8555: Fix 218f40e: Warning about 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits https://git.io/JLjVV 20:14:01 <andythenorth> Timberwolf :) 20:14:20 <andythenorth> I got bored of all FIRS industries being copy-paste-o same textures 20:14:31 <andythenorth> I pushed FIRS 4 to be more diverse 20:15:05 <andythenorth> TrueBrain so JGR official builds when? (or no?) :) 20:16:10 <frosch123> did you figure out the train templates? 20:17:10 <andythenorth> somewhat 20:17:15 <andythenorth> JGR has fixed a few things 20:17:26 <glx> andythenorth: he already knows we can provide builds if he wants 20:17:26 <andythenorth> the templates are *not* something we could PR 20:17:38 <andythenorth> the templates are quite interesting though 20:18:02 <andythenorth> the functionality of "I don't have to yak-shave to change my trains" is nice 20:18:22 <frosch123> i thought yak-shaving was your favorite hobby 20:18:31 <andythenorth> yak-shaving grfs is my favourite hobby yes 20:18:37 <andythenorth> the implementation gets in the way, and the UI design fails to follow any of the 19 or so conventions we already have 20:18:45 <andythenorth> which is remarkable, but no surprise I guess 20:19:12 <andythenorth> I think templates would be really nice 20:19:27 <andythenorth> I also think that the hard part of any version of newgrf liveries is auto-replace 20:19:36 <andythenorth> and the hard part of templates is auto-replace :P 20:19:49 <andythenorth> if there are templates...does auto-replace stay or go? 20:20:24 <glx> auto replace is a hard part by itself ;) 20:21:00 <glx> but it "works" 20:21:08 <andythenorth> it's really remarkable 20:21:21 <andythenorth> auto-replace is a really good part of openttd 20:21:53 <glx> minus the confusion between renew and replace 20:22:08 <andythenorth> I asked the discord realism grf liveries-are-cargo-subtypes crowd how they manage the horror of subtypes UI 20:22:25 <andythenorth> and they are all just like "JGR templates, not an issue mate, just move on" 20:23:00 <andythenorth> OTOH, FIRS is pretty much going to end up banning every realism train grf 20:23:19 <andythenorth> because they are using cargos for liveries, which breaks one or the other 20:23:35 <andythenorth> CZTR is already banned, which is going to get me grief 20:23:52 <andythenorth> RUKTS is getting banned next, then I need to find the others 20:24:17 <andythenorth> breaks XIS and AuzInd too, so I might help those authors downstream my changes 20:24:34 <TrueBrain> glx: static cast around 1? Isn't that just 1LL or something? 20:24:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #8554: Allow NewGRF vehicles to query the track-type NewGRF about the current track-type https://git.io/JLj43 20:24:49 <andythenorth> it's been a while since a proper newgrf author drama :( 20:25:04 <glx> maybe just need a new engine property with some kind of list of supported livery to choose from, and a variable to access the choice from action 2 20:25:15 <frosch123> andythenorth: you could just skip slot 31 20:25:32 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: Want to ban Trains? If you do it on the basis of zoom compatibility you have a good chance of me actually being angry about it :) 20:25:36 <frosch123> or we could make ottd support multiple cargo grfs 20:25:55 <andythenorth> Timberwolf you said you don't abuse cargo subtypes though :D 20:25:58 <andythenorth> zoom is pff 20:26:00 <frosch123> but the latter only makes sense if not every industry set maxes every cargo type limit with 3 days 20:26:11 <Timberwolf> Indeed. FIRS compatibility is a deliberate objective. 20:26:26 <glx> TrueBrain: ha yes maybe a cast is not needed 20:26:29 <andythenorth> 2x FIRS Timberwolf fork when? 20:26:36 <andythenorth> can't be hard 20:26:45 <TrueBrain> glx: can't test why msvc is being stupid, but a static cast over a number feel very weird :p could you see what the proper syntax is? 20:26:47 <andythenorth> you don't have to design anything, and all of FIRS looks same 20:27:03 <andythenorth> TimberFIRS 20:27:11 <andythenorth> singularity happens 20:27:23 <TrueBrain> Tnx :D 20:27:30 <Timberwolf> We already have TimberFIRS, it's the one which relentlessly chucks out 6400 units from secondary industries no matter what. 20:27:40 <andythenorth> TimberFIRS 2 20:28:29 <andythenorth> glx yeah, pretty much, or do it on engine IDs and not a property, but provide UI to group them. Either way, auto-replace is the hard part 20:29:07 <andythenorth> like, are liveries [some word I don't know like extrinsic or transcendent]? 20:29:27 <andythenorth> if I have Super Engine in DB colours, can I replace it with Mega Engine and it automatically goes to DB colours? 20:29:28 <glx> well auto replace can try the same livery first, and if failing it will use the first available 20:29:43 <andythenorth> and then do we need strings for each cargo and crap? 20:29:48 <andythenorth> livery / cargo /s 20:31:11 <frosch123> TrueBrain: 1ull ? 20:31:58 <andythenorth> I really like the 'group vehicles in the buy menu' route, but I think it's a bit unix worse-is-better thinking 20:32:07 <andythenorth> grf authors seem really hostile to it when discussed 20:32:17 <andythenorth> but auto-replace would just...work 20:32:41 <andythenorth> it's one property and some UI crap 20:33:11 <TrueBrain> Unsigned makes more sense yes :D 20:33:15 <andythenorth> and pooling certain stats like reliability and availability 20:33:25 <glx> I think they are hostile because it means "rewrite" their grfs ;) 20:34:04 <glx> current livery stuff is just abusing around limitations 20:34:22 <frosch123> andythenorth: do you know whether silicon valley works with 64 cargos? 20:34:32 <andythenorth> frosch123 no but I need to play a test game anyway 20:34:37 <andythenorth> might be time 20:34:45 * andythenorth considers a fork 20:34:51 <frosch123> i think i have the same "1 << cargo" in sv. and i have no idea whether our squirrel does 64bit ints 20:35:20 <frosch123> and i have really surprised there is no other case of it in ottd 20:35:25 <frosch123> *am 20:35:41 <glx> tried 1LL and 1ULL, both work 20:35:46 <andythenorth> I'll start a SV map and see 20:35:51 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 20:36:03 <glx> let's check gcc quickly 20:36:09 <glx> (but should work too) 20:36:33 <frosch123> ah, upper-case is a good hint :) 20:36:44 <frosch123> so yes, we have multiple (1LL << foobar) in ottd 20:37:06 <andythenorth> how many openttd checkouts do others have? 20:37:16 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 20:37:24 <frosch123> one git, 2 old hg, 5 old svn 20:37:30 <frosch123> the latter with whatever modifications in them 20:37:51 <frosch123> but there were 5 hg and 12 svn once, so cleaned up some of them :p 20:37:54 <glx> I don't remember how many hg and svn I still have 20:38:30 <glx> git is so easier, no need to duplicate checkout to work on something else 20:39:04 <andythenorth> I have vanilla and jgr 20:39:08 <frosch123> oh, i forgot the checkouts of the release branches. but meh 20:39:32 <andythenorth> I keep pulling PRs to test and breaking my savegames due to forgetting :P 20:39:48 <andythenorth> but I don't think 2 checkouts will improve my memory 20:40:41 <glx> haha there's even SQInteger mask = 0x00000001LL << i; 20:42:22 <andythenorth> frosch123 if SV didn't work, what might I see? :P 20:42:23 <glx> and we also have 39 1ULL occurences 20:43:03 <frosch123> andythenorth: it would fail to name the cargo that you have to produce 20:43:06 <frosch123> just blank 20:43:14 <andythenorth> if ID was above 32? 20:43:32 <frosch123> or maybe it would name the wrong one, shifted by 32 20:43:41 <michi_cc> SetDParam takes uint64, so ULL I'd think. 20:43:48 <frosch123> so if you have to produce cargo 34, it would tell you cargo 2, or so :p 20:44:13 <glx> I think it would tell 0 20:44:16 <andythenorth> seems to work afaict 20:44:49 <michi_cc> typedef __int64 SQInteger 20:44:59 <andythenorth> it's given me Vehicle Parts with ID 45 20:45:42 <frosch123> michi_cc: cool, i was worried we switched to int32 for everyone, to make 32bit and 64bit behave the same 20:45:50 <andythenorth> it's detected an industry I built correctly producing VPTS 20:46:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 requested changes for pull request #8555: Fix 218f40e: Warning about 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits https://git.io/JLjrf 20:46:54 * andythenorth considers an nml to m4nfo code generator for stations, 20:47:04 <andythenorth> oh I think timberwolf already suggested that? 20:47:29 <Timberwolf> Heh. No, I wrote my own weird sidetrack for stations. 20:47:37 <michi_cc> I think 32-bit compilers that don't have a 64-bit type are not thing for some time now :) 20:49:38 *** tokai has joined #openttd 20:49:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 20:50:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8555: Fix 218f40e: Warning about 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits https://git.io/JLjzy 20:50:55 <Samu> hi 20:51:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8555: Fix 218f40e: Warning about 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits https://git.io/JLjrL 20:51:21 <andythenorth> glx fancy trying a rough prototype of this to see if it's rubbish? :P https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/discussions/8446#discussioncomment-246651 20:51:24 <andythenorth> I could provide a grf 20:53:11 <andythenorth> prototype could just group vehicles where the name string matches 20:54:58 <glx> I hate touching GUI ;) 20:56:18 * andythenorth wonders where GUI even is 20:56:26 <andythenorth> must be some widgets.cpp or something 20:56:44 <andythenorth> lol there is widget.cpp 20:58:38 <glx> I think it's in build_vehicle_gui.cpp 20:58:56 <andythenorth> tree thing is not widgetised I think 20:59:28 <andythenorth> the existing subtypes tree drawing is in vehicle_gui.cpp L454 and so 20:59:43 <andythenorth> tree is not essential, just hide / show variants on click 20:59:57 * andythenorth "my first C++ patch" time 21:00:04 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:00:10 <andythenorth> this always goes...great 21:01:13 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:01:24 <glx> DrawEngineList() handles the drawing 21:01:50 <andythenorth> thanks 21:02:04 <andythenorth> guess it needs fed a list of engines 21:02:22 <andythenorth> hmm, the existing hide/show might give clues 21:02:24 * andythenorth new samu 21:03:57 <glx> and this draw function is shared between autoreplace and buy 21:04:21 <andythenorth> yup, I saw the 'crashed' palette use :) 21:04:41 <andythenorth> no idea how to associate engines in eng_list 21:05:02 <andythenorth> does that get split up so it contains a list of lists? 21:05:16 <andythenorth> or is grouping a property on each engine, read when drawing? 21:05:50 <andythenorth> list of lists means rebuilding all sorting 21:05:53 <andythenorth> so 'nope' 21:06:40 <glx> the list is sorted (by criteria selected in GUI) 21:07:06 <andythenorth> maybe something like engine has parent ID / none 21:10:37 <glx> but adding "group by" may need to create a list of lists 21:12:03 <glx> that's where a livery property would help a lot ;) 21:12:11 <andythenorth> yes 21:12:22 <andythenorth> I am +/-0 on the IDs idea 21:12:40 <glx> 1 engine ID, many liveries, naturally grouped 21:13:26 <andythenorth> it does seem the simplest overall 21:13:35 <andythenorth> overwhelmingly, grf authors want to set liveries 21:13:50 <andythenorth> the abuse of subtypes for stats changes is minimal (I do it) 21:13:54 <glx> and maybe a new feature to define liveries specs, like name 21:14:06 <andythenorth> livery labels :P 21:14:10 <andythenorth> common livery scheme :P 21:14:12 <andythenorth> nope 21:14:57 <glx> stats can still be modified via CB36 depending of selected livery 21:16:13 <glx> I think it's the simplest solution for both newgrf authors, and openttd devs 21:16:53 <andythenorth> I was trying to avoid combinatorial crap like "BR Blue 87mph, air brakes" 21:16:56 <andythenorth> but yes 21:16:59 <andythenorth> agree 21:18:14 <glx> in most cases I guess all stats are the same, just the visual changes 21:19:43 <andythenorth> the changing stats idea...rarely works IMHO 21:19:47 <andythenorth> I've done it 2 or 3 times now 21:20:26 <andythenorth> it's nice idea for short buy menu, but bad gameplay 21:20:29 <glx> probably more effective to just create a new engine for different stats 21:21:14 <andythenorth> yup 21:21:23 <andythenorth> I'm removing refittable capacities from ships currently 21:21:45 <andythenorth> no station refit support, no auto-replace support, just kind of fail :) 21:23:28 <TrueBrain> https://merge-chance.info/target?repo=openttd/openttd 21:23:35 <TrueBrain> Pretty decent 21:24:24 <glx> haha but if it's not merged, it stays open for years ;) 21:24:41 <TrueBrain> No no, read the fine print on that page 21:24:52 <TrueBrain> They take that into account t pretty nicely 21:25:13 <glx> based on 161 most recent 21:25:58 <TrueBrain> 161 non-members 21:26:04 <TrueBrain> Which is a lot 21:26:14 <glx> oh I see, they're still open for us, but considered closed by the analyser 21:26:51 <andythenorth> shall we get a badge? o_O 21:27:18 <TrueBrain> It doesn't feel like we accept 80%, but stats don't lie 21:27:41 <TrueBrain> https://merge-chance.info/target?repo=vuejs/vue 21:27:50 <TrueBrain> They do the inverse :p 21:28:27 <glx> but faster ;) 21:28:46 <TrueBrain> Not sure that means better :p 21:28:54 <andythenorth> so a train would need a list of the liveries it supports? 21:29:11 <andythenorth> like refittable cargos or something? 21:29:28 <glx> yeah similar to refittable 21:29:37 <andythenorth> static prop, or CB? 21:30:37 <glx> I guess usual way is both 21:31:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8555: Fix 218f40e: Warning about 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits https://git.io/JLjzy 21:31:23 <glx> so it's possible to "remove" liveries based on current year 21:31:54 <andythenorth> hmm can I change cargo refits in cb36? 21:31:59 * andythenorth imagines mischief 21:32:06 <glx> remove/add from the list, but still available to draw current running vehicles 21:32:18 <glx> just not for new ones 21:32:53 <andythenorth> I think for the full range of madness, authors will want to check by dates and stuff yes 21:35:47 <frosch123> andythenorth: the mistake of cargo subtypes to make the callback define the list 21:36:04 <frosch123> it's easier if you have a static list, and a callback that tells available/not available 21:36:30 <frosch123> that way it's clearly known which items exist, even if they are not available now 21:36:32 <andythenorth> so similar to cargos 21:36:36 <andythenorth> but not 21:37:10 <andythenorth> there will need to be some new feature type 'livery' to provide a label and name string? 21:37:25 <andythenorth> or can it be jammed into action 14? :P 21:37:38 <glx> new feature is probably better 21:37:57 <frosch123> andythenorth: action14 is for static stuff. 21:38:15 <frosch123> just add a text property? like for object and station classes? 21:38:16 * andythenorth wonders if availability of a livery is better handled per livery 21:38:19 <andythenorth> not per vehicle 21:38:38 <glx> per livery makes sense 21:38:46 <andythenorth> I can see authors arguing it both ways 21:39:01 <andythenorth> e.g. SNCF Fret is only after 199x 21:39:20 <andythenorth> but blablah engine has special realism based rules due to it's exact history 21:41:18 <andythenorth> I have 'liveries' in Iron Horse already, and the definitions started per engine, and pretty quickly moved to global https://github.com/andythenorth/iron-horse/blob/master/src/rosters/pony.py#L193 21:41:27 <andythenorth> (company colour rules stupidity) 21:43:34 <andythenorth> looking at Objects: text ID, Introduction date, End of life date seem stealable 21:43:38 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Objects#Object_class_text_ID_.2809.29 21:44:35 <andythenorth> the 'this engine is special' case is solved by defining a different livery, same string, different dates, only used for that engine 21:44:38 <andythenorth> or something 21:44:55 <frosch123> TrueBrain: how does it do the "non member" thing? most members are not public 21:47:15 <TrueBrain> I guess by the member label on PRs, but I didn't write it, so I don't know 21:48:50 *** arikover has joined #openttd 21:50:53 <frosch123> when i log out, glx is listed as "contributor" 21:51:10 <frosch123> so it does not spoil member secrets 21:52:45 <frosch123> ah, the filter-by-author dropdown seems to spoil it :p 21:54:17 <Samu> isn't my solution in #8009 similar somewhat to #7979 ? 21:55:01 <Samu> :( sad face because it was closed 21:57:15 <andythenorth> livery UI? Similar to subtypes, but less crap? 21:57:59 <frosch123> those issue/pr filters spoil the whole member structure 22:05:34 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest10183 22:05:36 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 22:07:54 <Samu> cyas 22:08:02 *** Samu has quit IRC 22:09:06 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:11:43 *** Guest10183 has quit IRC 22:14:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 commented on pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLj6q 22:26:40 *** arikover` has joined #openttd 22:31:56 *** arikover has quit IRC 22:39:46 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:42:46 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:53:24 *** arikover` has quit IRC 22:55:32 *** gelignite has quit IRC 23:08:20 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:11:49 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:13:57 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 23:14:03 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 23:30:29 *** DasPoseidon has quit IRC 23:30:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb 23:30:51 <Timberwolf> Spoke too soon. I broke ships. 23:31:41 <Timberwolf> Noticed it while reviewing videos, there was a one-frame glitch when a ship turned. 23:32:05 <Timberwolf> We definitely need more people playing nightlies! 23:37:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #8551: Flat maps of arctic and tropical climates are completely inaccessible https://git.io/JLh6Z 23:50:33 *** roadt__ has joined #openttd 23:50:51 *** roadt_ has quit IRC