Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:01 <FLHerne> But offset by one 00:00:12 <peter1138> I know I'm getting older but I didn't think i was quite at the age of friends dying. 00:01:14 <FLHerne> Well, through ill-health :-/ 00:01:37 <FLHerne> One of the channels I'm in has lost at least three people in their 20s over the years 00:01:49 <peter1138> Ugh 00:02:02 <FLHerne> Including last 00:07:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] LordAro opened pull request #62: Some fixes https://git.io/JmxyZ 00:07:57 <LordAro> right, bedtime 00:19:08 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 00:53:47 *** jellyknight has quit IRC 02:01:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 02:06:56 *** didac has joined #openttd 02:44:43 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:14:21 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 03:23:12 *** Wuzzy has quit IRC 03:41:22 *** debdog has joined #openttd 03:44:35 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 05:07:11 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 05:13:31 *** Extrems has quit IRC 05:13:37 *** Extrems has joined #openttd 05:27:34 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 05:27:48 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 05:39:42 *** didac has quit IRC 07:16:15 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:25:19 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 07:25:32 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 07:37:31 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 07:37:44 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 07:56:24 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:34:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8885: Fix #8875: Filter string in station window breaks flow in user interface https://git.io/JmpxN 08:47:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 09:00:13 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:10:33 <dihedral> greetings 09:13:00 <planetmaker> o/ 09:14:29 <Wolf01> o/ 09:22:06 <Xaroth> o7 09:22:43 <LordAro> /o 09:23:21 <Wolf01> /easy 09:34:13 <Wolf01> Meh, we left too much freedom to the customer, I don't understand why they don't use the automatic procedure to add stuff and instead they wanted to do it manually... "bug!"... no it's not, manually is for maintenance not for normal operations 09:40:11 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 09:41:39 <TrueBrain> and we were doing so well with only greetings :P 09:42:10 <Wolf01> I'm the cccccccombo breaker 09:47:04 <TrueBrain> https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/maywtr/hmmm_im_pretty_sure_it_stands_for_open_transport/ <- best reddit thread evah :D 09:48:50 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 09:49:34 <LordAro> heh 09:51:34 <Wolf01> Write it as Openttd so it is disguised as a single word 09:55:10 *** Samu has joined #openttd 09:59:37 <TrueBrain> https://steamcommunity.com/games/1536610/announcements/detail/3016822062056652457 10:02:19 <LordAro> lol you used that gif 10:02:34 <TrueBrain> I was really asked to do so, so .. yeah ... 10:03:57 <LordAro> no, it's an excellent choice 10:04:22 <TrueBrain> it fits the theme :P 10:05:43 <TrueBrain> LOL @ Forum .. so you explain some basics on snowline height .. and still there is: YOU ARE WRONG, post .. haha 10:05:45 <TrueBrain> what-ever .. 10:06:05 <TrueBrain> incredible how dense some people can be 10:08:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] matthijskooijman commented on issue #41: Should source bundle / tarball be published on github? https://git.io/Jfl4u 10:09:30 <LordAro> i'd certainly be in favour of a PR that removed that setting from the worldgen window 10:09:40 <LordAro> (that is then put in 1.11) 10:09:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain commented on issue #41: Should source bundle / tarball be published on github? https://git.io/Jfl4u 10:09:59 <TrueBrain> which setting you mean exactly? 10:10:02 <TrueBrain> snowline height or max height? :D 10:10:07 <LordAro> max height 10:10:16 <TrueBrain> yup 10:10:25 <TrueBrain> it will cause a lot of drama from a few, as a few keep insisting it does something else 10:10:46 <TrueBrain> despite all facts and explanations, they are still dying on their sword that it does something else :D 10:10:51 <LordAro> the sooner it's done (and renamed as appropriate), the more time languages have to translate it :) 10:11:03 <TrueBrain> so what is holding you back? :D 10:11:10 <LordAro> work and stuff 10:13:48 <TrueBrain> yeah, I have something similar ... mental health and stuff :P 10:15:10 <TrueBrain> the one thing I do not get, is why people got it in their head 1.11 generates "less mountains" 10:15:15 <TrueBrain> I find no evidence of that claim what so ever 10:15:50 <TrueBrain> and people I asked to give me settings that show that, have not yet done so :( 10:15:53 <LordAro> i think most of it comes from the worldgen buttons only very slightly influencing worldgen in the way you'd expect 10:16:13 <LordAro> TGP2 for 1.12? :p 10:16:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] matthijskooijman commented on issue #41: Should source bundle / tarball be published on github? https://git.io/Jfl4u 10:17:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] LordAro commented on issue #41: Should source bundle / tarball be published on github? https://git.io/Jfl4u 10:17:26 <LordAro> incidentally, the action we use to upload the nml source artefact is now unmaintained & archived 10:17:41 <TrueBrain> sure they have a new one :P 10:17:52 <LordAro> they (GH) don't 10:17:59 <LordAro> they've just farmed it out to 3rdparty actions 10:18:10 <LordAro> which is a bit sucky 10:18:50 <TrueBrain> oof 10:18:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain commented on issue #41: Should source bundle / tarball be published on github? https://git.io/Jfl4u 10:21:13 <TrueBrain> the one they do reference would also work for OpenTTD itself 10:21:18 <TrueBrain> so that is nice :) 10:22:05 <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 10:22:16 <LordAro> it seems a bit odd to split the downloads 10:22:40 <LordAro> everything else is ottd.org only (except nml, which is an exception due to pypi) 10:22:45 <TrueBrain> what do you see as issue? 10:23:16 <TrueBrain> that we cannot track download-count? :D 10:23:25 <LordAro> it seems unnecessary to have things in 2 places 10:23:33 <LordAro> and potentially confusing 10:23:40 <LordAro> and also that, yes :p 10:23:43 <TrueBrain> confusing to who? 10:23:56 <TrueBrain> from my perspective: we already have Debian, Ubuntu, etc, publishing the binaries too 10:24:00 <TrueBrain> we publish it to Steam, MSStore too 10:24:09 <TrueBrain> so there hasn't been "one source" for years now 10:24:18 <TrueBrain> so it doesn't tick me off as such :P 10:24:20 <LordAro> yeah, very true 10:24:31 <TrueBrain> the download-count is already fucked :P 10:24:46 <TrueBrain> all I see is that a portion of people do look on GitHub first 10:24:52 <TrueBrain> and we now confuse them 10:24:56 <TrueBrain> how-ever big that group is :) 10:25:10 <TrueBrain> and as long as it is all automated, personally, I don't give a craps ass :P 10:25:46 <TrueBrain> but I do get it if it just "feels wrong", as that is kinda what I hear you say :) 10:26:18 <TrueBrain> this is why I strongly think it should be additional to, not replacement of, for example; we host the truth, nobody else :P 10:29:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain commented on pull request #62: Some fixes https://git.io/JmhZK 10:30:47 <LordAro> cherry-picking to a completely separate repo would be impressive :p 10:30:58 <TrueBrain> that is pretty easy :) 10:30:58 <LordAro> though i suppose i could just add it as a separate remote... 10:31:08 <TrueBrain> not even add, just fetch it 10:31:08 <LordAro> weird as fuck though :p 10:31:36 <TrueBrain> but yeah, I love how you go in the git bubble and only consider the possibility of doing it via git :P 10:31:48 <TrueBrain> you silly :) 10:32:01 <LordAro> that's not a cherry-pick though :p 10:32:06 <LordAro> you're the one that used the technical term! 10:32:12 <TrueBrain> want some more salt? :D 10:32:35 <TrueBrain> let me think .. what is the right word here ... owh yeah: PEDANTIC 10:32:36 <TrueBrain> :D 10:32:39 <LordAro> ;) 10:32:44 <TrueBrain> :D :D 10:32:53 <LordAro> i have a "salted caramel" cookie sitting on my desk, i have plenty 10:32:59 <TrueBrain> hmmmmmmmmmmm 10:33:20 <FLHerne> Someone on forum is insisting that a vehicle that's, say, 65% reliable should spend 35% of the time broken down 10:33:29 <TrueBrain> I don't even know if it is an English saying, about salt .. 10:33:50 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: lol; well, I still vote to change % in MTTF values :) 10:33:52 <LordAro> TrueBrain: oh, it is 10:33:55 <LordAro> FLHerne: "Someone" 10:34:11 <TrueBrain> LordAro: good :) I always wonder about these things .. it is very common in Dutch, but .. that doesn't always carry over :P 10:34:14 <FLHerne> LordAro: That Guy? 10:34:29 <TrueBrain> we talking about the same guy here? :P 10:34:38 <FLHerne> I don't follow the forum enough anymore to know if there is one now 10:35:24 <FLHerne> MTBF might be a more useful value to display, yes 10:35:26 <TrueBrain> it just amazed me what a healthy conversation I could have on Discord about the exact same subject as on forums, where on forums it was just .. a .. shitshow of people bashing each other, disagreeing without facts, etc etc 10:35:59 <TrueBrain> well, MTTB .. Mean Time To Breakdown :D 10:37:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain commented on pull request #62: Some fixes https://git.io/Jmhcs 10:38:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain approved pull request #62: Some fixes https://git.io/JmhcG 10:41:20 <TrueBrain> owh, eints project-cache by default is set to "10" 10:41:24 <TrueBrain> we force it back to "1" 10:41:27 <_dp_> TrueBrain, and next thing ppl report will be that it doesn't decrease at the same rate as time goes :p 10:41:55 <TrueBrain> _dp_: nah, the tooltip should just explain what MTTF is; so that will be a 50 page long tooltip 10:41:59 <TrueBrain> its fine 10:42:22 <TrueBrain> when you click it, it will drag you into a Zoom training about MTTF, statistics, and everything 10:42:29 <TrueBrain> a 3 day course you cannot get out of 10:45:16 * _dp_ looking for a thumbs up emoji in irc 10:45:33 <LordAro> 👍 10:45:49 <_dp_> thanks :) 10:45:50 <TrueBrain> reliability doesn't even have a tooltip 10:46:02 <TrueBrain> the main reason I always play with breakdowns disabled, as I never understood what the % means 10:46:19 <TrueBrain> my vehicle is now 95% .. wait, not, 94% .. dropping fast, omg, 93% .. 10:46:22 <TrueBrain> no clue what it means 10:46:31 <TrueBrain> is there a 7% every tick it breaks down? 10:46:34 <TrueBrain> every day? 10:46:35 <TrueBrain> every month? 10:46:37 <TrueBrain> every year? 10:47:27 <TrueBrain> wauw, it dropped 5% in 1 game-month .. did not know it dropped that quickly :P 10:48:04 <_dp_> ehm... I never even bothered thinking about what realiability means 10:48:19 <_dp_> breakdowns are broken in so many ways that reliability hardly matters at all 10:48:32 <TrueBrain> till this day I do not know what that percentage represents 10:49:47 <_dp_> it probably represents that even CS didn't know what to make of it :p 10:51:35 <TrueBrain> owh, it is done every day 10:51:40 <TrueBrain> took me a while to find that in the code :) 10:52:15 <TrueBrain> and it is a cumulative chance 10:52:35 <TrueBrain> every day the chance is increased with 1, and a 1 in 25 chance it is increased by 25 10:52:54 <TrueBrain> when it exceeds the threshold based on the reliability, it breaks down 10:53:37 <TrueBrain> did not expect that, but I guess that works 10:53:50 <TrueBrain> even the worst vehicles can drive ~3 game days 10:57:16 <TrueBrain> I might completely misunderstand this function, but it does read to me that every vehicle breaks down at least once every 250 days if not serviced 11:04:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] LordAro merged pull request #62: Some fixes https://git.io/JmxyZ 11:04:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] LordAro closed issue #43: Favors .git version even in release tarball https://git.io/Jf8Xh 11:05:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] LordAro commented on issue #10: Add GitHub Actions support https://git.io/Jq5v2 11:05:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] LordAro closed issue #10: Add GitHub Actions support https://git.io/Jq5v2 11:06:31 <TrueBrain> project management in issues, you got to love it :) 11:06:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] LordAro commented on issue #4: Release new version with py3 support https://git.io/JJKjc 11:06:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] LordAro closed issue #4: Release new version with py3 support https://git.io/JJKjc 11:07:25 <LordAro> mm... 11:16:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] orudge approved pull request #32: Fix: Swap modern/old bus sounds https://git.io/JmhEf 11:17:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] orudge merged pull request #32: Fix: Swap modern/old bus sounds https://git.io/JqCDH 11:17:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] LordAro commented on issue #33: Old bus / modern bus sounds are swapped https://git.io/JqCDF 11:17:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] LordAro closed issue #33: Old bus / modern bus sounds are swapped https://git.io/JqCDF 11:17:59 * LordAro grumbles about unlinked issues 11:21:28 *** jeeg[m] has quit IRC 11:21:33 *** igor[m]2 has quit IRC 11:23:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] orudge opened pull request #39: Prepare: Release 1.0.1 https://git.io/JmhuG 11:23:21 <TrueBrain> fun fact: OpenGFX+landscape compensates for the snowline height scaling OpenTTD (and NewGRF specs) do :) 11:23:28 <TrueBrain> so if you enter "16" in the NewGRF setting 11:23:32 <TrueBrain> it scales it to the max-height first 11:23:35 <TrueBrain> which is given to OpenTTD 11:23:38 <TrueBrain> which scales it back to "16" 11:23:49 <TrueBrain> that is just funny :) 11:24:10 <LordAro> oh dear 11:24:38 *** phil[m] has quit IRC 11:24:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] orudge approved pull request #11: Credit musicians in readme https://git.io/Jmhui 11:25:04 <TrueBrain> so it is fine to "fix" the max-height to 255, assuming this is what all GRFs that influence snowline height do :D 11:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: try the ancient alpine(w).grf 11:25:31 <planetmaker> hm... so... 11:25:32 <TrueBrain> that is .. pretty unexpected, but a nice find nevertheless :) 11:25:33 *** JamesRoss[m] has quit IRC 11:25:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] orudge merged pull request #11: Credit musicians in readme https://git.io/JqFwb 11:25:44 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: do I want to ... :P 11:25:54 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 11:25:54 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 11:25:54 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 11:25:54 *** debdog has quit IRC 11:25:54 *** ericnoan has quit IRC 11:25:54 *** philip[m] has quit IRC 11:25:54 *** yur3shmukcik[m] has quit IRC 11:25:54 *** labs[m] has quit IRC 11:25:54 *** patrick[m]2 has quit IRC 11:25:54 *** nolep[m] has quit IRC 11:25:54 *** EmeraldSnorlax[m] has quit IRC 11:25:54 *** bkilm[m] has quit IRC 11:25:54 *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC 11:25:54 *** Osai has quit IRC 11:25:54 *** karl[m]5 has quit IRC 11:26:38 *** khavik[m] has quit IRC 11:28:35 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 11:28:35 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 11:28:35 *** debdog has joined #openttd 11:28:35 *** ericnoan has joined #openttd 11:28:35 *** philip[m] has joined #openttd 11:28:35 *** yur3shmukcik[m] has joined #openttd 11:28:36 *** labs[m] has joined #openttd 11:28:36 *** patrick[m]2 has joined #openttd 11:28:36 *** nolep[m] has joined #openttd 11:28:36 *** EmeraldSnorlax[m] has joined #openttd 11:28:36 *** bkilm[m] has joined #openttd 11:28:36 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd 11:28:36 *** Osai has joined #openttd 11:28:36 *** karl[m]5 has joined #openttd 11:28:38 *** hamstonkid[m] has quit IRC 11:28:45 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:29:57 *** igor[m]2 has joined #openttd 11:30:59 <TrueBrain> okay, this snowline height newgrf stuff makes sense now .. also the difference between peoples expectation and how it really works 11:31:53 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: http://www.ttdpatch.de/download.html in case you were looking 11:32:54 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: I don't know if you can assume all newgrfs do things similarly :-/ 11:33:14 <FLHerne> (but tbh I can't think of another snowline grf) 11:33:57 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, that GRF says: 25% of height is snow 11:34:06 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: I am sure I cannot :) 11:34:47 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: it should have varying snowline (just no parameter to adjust it) 11:35:25 <TrueBrain> owh, indeed, it does 11:35:29 <TrueBrain> I was just looking at 1st of Jan 11:35:35 <TrueBrain> how it changed with max-height 11:37:44 <TrueBrain> so that GRF has the issue that if you put max-height to 255 11:37:46 <TrueBrain> nothing will have snow 11:37:52 <TrueBrain> which will piss off at least 1 person 11:38:00 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly. 11:38:05 <Eddi|zuHause> <-- person 11:38:35 <TrueBrain> the specs are clearly created for a single use case, and we have at least 2 :D 11:38:42 <TrueBrain> its fine; just a nice observation :) 11:43:25 <TrueBrain> LordAro: talking about automation, I guess we should also make that if you release OpenGFX/OpenSFX/OpenMSX, it should auto-upload to BaNaNaS .. 11:45:14 <TrueBrain> main issue that I have not solved, is authentication :P 11:52:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] SecularSteve opened issue #166: [sr_RS] Translator access request https://git.io/JmhVy 11:52:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] SecularSteve opened issue #167: [hr_HR] Translator access request https://git.io/JmhVS 12:00:26 *** jeeg[m] has joined #openttd 12:02:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] taku315 opened issue #168: [ja_JP] Translator access request https://git.io/JmhrQ 12:02:34 *** hamstonkid[m] has joined #openttd 12:06:31 *** phil[m] has joined #openttd 12:06:56 *** khavik[m] has joined #openttd 12:16:53 *** spnda has joined #openttd 12:17:37 *** JamesRoss[m] has joined #openttd 12:32:21 <Wolf01> Hmmm, strange, I was sure I was watching (listening actually) a video of "Biffa plays" instead it was "the Royal Institution" with Matt Parker... they talk exactly in the same accent, voice, lane mathematics etc 12:33:49 <TrueBrain> its a conspiracy, I am sure :D 12:34:11 <Wolf01> Or they are the same person :D 13:16:43 *** roadt has joined #openttd 13:19:05 <supermop_Home> well i refactored my grf and got it to compile again, and decided to keep going with cleaning up the code, and now again it doesn't compile 13:23:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: are you saying "all english people sound the same"? :p 13:23:55 <Wolf01> No, I can tell different accents :P 13:24:31 <Wolf01> Not really the place they are from, but when they sound the same I'm able to recognize it 13:34:45 *** JamesRoss[m] has quit IRC 13:34:45 *** khavik[m] has quit IRC 13:34:45 *** igor[m]2 has quit IRC 13:34:45 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 13:34:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 13:34:45 *** Artea has quit IRC 13:34:45 *** ad5twoknebor[m] has quit IRC 13:34:45 *** elliot[m] has quit IRC 13:34:45 *** menelaos[m] has quit IRC 13:34:45 *** Aileen[m] has quit IRC 13:34:45 *** ircer[m] has quit IRC 13:34:45 *** glothit7ok[m] has quit IRC 13:34:45 *** Cursarion has quit IRC 13:34:45 *** Hazzard has quit IRC 13:34:45 *** XeryusTC has quit IRC 13:34:45 *** Yexo has quit IRC 13:34:45 *** gnu_jj_ has quit IRC 13:41:19 *** Artea has joined #openttd 13:41:19 *** JamesRoss[m] has joined #openttd 13:41:20 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 13:41:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 13:41:20 *** elliot[m] has joined #openttd 13:41:20 *** menelaos[m] has joined #openttd 13:41:20 *** ircer[m] has joined #openttd 13:41:20 *** glothit7ok[m] has joined #openttd 13:41:20 *** Cursarion has joined #openttd 13:41:20 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd 13:41:20 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd 13:41:20 *** Yexo has joined #openttd 13:41:20 *** gnu_jj_ has joined #openttd 13:45:39 *** khavik[m] has joined #openttd 13:45:55 *** igor[m]2 has joined #openttd 13:46:46 *** Aileen[m] has joined #openttd 13:57:51 *** ad5twoknebor[m] has joined #openttd 13:58:56 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 14:13:00 *** Venemo has quit IRC 14:17:04 *** Venemo has joined #openttd 14:33:06 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:35:02 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 14:52:03 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 14:57:46 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 15:05:46 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:09:10 *** y2kboy23 has quit IRC 15:09:47 *** y2kboy23 has joined #openttd 15:27:14 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:35:09 *** michi_cc has quit IRC 15:35:09 *** michi_cc has joined #openttd 15:35:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v michi_cc 15:35:09 *** Hobbyboy has quit IRC 15:35:09 *** ZirconiumX has quit IRC 15:36:32 *** ^ekipS^ has joined #openttd 15:37:16 *** gelignite has quit IRC 15:37:16 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 15:37:16 *** nielsm has quit IRC 15:37:16 *** igor[m]2 has quit IRC 15:37:16 *** khavik[m] has quit IRC 15:37:16 *** phil[m] has quit IRC 15:37:16 *** hamstonkid[m] has quit IRC 15:37:16 *** EmeraldSnorlax[m] has quit IRC 15:37:16 *** philip[m] has quit IRC 15:37:16 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 15:37:16 *** ericnoan has quit IRC 15:37:16 *** debdog has quit IRC 15:37:16 *** patrick[m]2 has quit IRC 15:37:17 *** yur3shmukcik[m] has quit IRC 15:37:17 *** karl[m]5 has quit IRC 15:37:17 *** nolep[m] has quit IRC 15:37:17 *** labs[m] has quit IRC 15:37:17 *** Osai has quit IRC 15:37:17 *** bkilm[m] has quit IRC 15:37:17 *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC 15:37:17 *** ^ekipS^ is now known as ^Spike^ 15:37:31 *** Hobbyboy has joined #openttd 15:39:17 *** natmac[m] has quit IRC 15:39:22 *** natalie[m] has quit IRC 15:39:27 *** joey[m] has quit IRC 15:39:27 *** udo[m] has quit IRC 15:39:27 *** twom[m] has quit IRC 15:39:27 *** grag[m] has quit IRC 15:39:42 *** rudolfs[m] has quit IRC 15:39:42 *** leward[m] has quit IRC 15:40:13 *** Osai has joined #openttd 15:40:16 *** menelaos[m] has quit IRC 15:40:18 *** hylshols7qui[m] has quit IRC 15:40:18 *** johanna[m] has quit IRC 15:40:18 *** ciet[m] has quit IRC 15:40:21 *** patricia[m] has quit IRC 15:40:23 *** nartir[m] has quit IRC 15:40:25 *** cacheerror[m] has quit IRC 15:40:25 *** jeremy[m] has quit IRC 15:40:25 *** iarp[m] has quit IRC 15:40:26 *** CornsMcGowan[m] has quit IRC 15:40:28 *** robert[m]2 has quit IRC 15:40:28 *** ist5shreawf[m] has quit IRC 15:40:29 *** dude[m]1 has quit IRC 15:40:29 *** gdown has quit IRC 15:40:38 *** shedidthedog[m] has quit IRC 15:40:39 *** linda[m] has quit IRC 15:40:39 *** dag[m] has quit IRC 15:40:40 *** cawal[m] has quit IRC 15:40:40 *** yoltid[m] has quit IRC 15:40:40 *** osvaldo[m] has quit IRC 15:40:41 *** glothit7ok[m] has quit IRC 15:40:41 *** freu[m] has quit IRC 15:40:41 *** ookfof[m] has quit IRC 15:40:41 *** magdalena[m] has quit IRC 15:40:41 *** josef[m]1 has quit IRC 15:40:41 *** karoline[m] has quit IRC 15:40:41 *** olmvnec[m] has quit IRC 15:40:41 *** aperezdc has quit IRC 15:40:43 *** Heiki[m] has quit IRC 15:40:43 *** einar[m] has quit IRC 15:40:43 *** jact[m] has quit IRC 15:40:43 *** christoph[m]2 has quit IRC 15:40:43 *** paulus[m] has quit IRC 15:40:43 *** amal[m] has quit IRC 15:40:43 *** blikjeham[m] has quit IRC 15:40:43 *** cjmonagle[m] has quit IRC 15:40:44 *** gretel[m] has quit IRC 15:40:46 *** JamesRoss[m] has quit IRC 15:41:14 *** ZirconiumY has joined #openttd 15:41:15 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 15:41:15 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 15:41:15 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 15:41:15 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 15:41:15 *** debdog has joined #openttd 15:41:15 *** ericnoan has joined #openttd 15:41:16 *** elliot[m] has quit IRC 15:41:26 *** ad5twoknebor[m] has quit IRC 15:41:26 *** ircer[m] has quit IRC 15:41:41 *** Aileen[m] has quit IRC 15:46:42 *** jeeg[m] has quit IRC 15:46:42 *** albert[m] has quit IRC 15:46:42 *** fiddeldibu[m] has quit IRC 15:46:42 *** pothyurf[m] has quit IRC 15:46:42 *** tonyfinn[m] has quit IRC 15:57:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 opened issue #8886: Changelog button crashes the game if NewGRF contains changelog.md https://git.io/Jmjo9 16:00:17 *** labs[m] has joined #openttd 16:00:21 <LordAro> that looks like a size issue, rather than .md 16:00:28 *** nolep[m] has joined #openttd 16:01:12 *** EmeraldSnorlax[m] has joined #openttd 16:04:50 <LordAro> so that's weird 16:05:00 <LordAro> for me, it opens the changelog fine 16:05:05 <LordAro> ...only it's OTTD's changelog 16:05:07 <LordAro> not the GRF's 16:05:10 <LordAro> what. 16:13:50 <LordAro> oh 16:13:51 <LordAro> oh no 16:14:33 *** patrick[m]2 has joined #openttd 16:18:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8886: Changelog button crashes the game if NewGRF contains changelog.md https://git.io/Jmjo9 16:19:35 <LordAro> there's your CVE, if you wanted one 16:20:37 <LordAro> interestingly, doesn't crash for me displaying changelog.txt 16:20:40 <LordAro> dunno why 16:29:23 *** menelaos[m] has joined #openttd 16:53:01 *** Venemo has quit IRC 16:57:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 commented on issue #8886: Changelog button crashes the game if NewGRF contains relative folder https://git.io/Jmjo9 17:07:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8886: Changelog button crashes the game if NewGRF contains relative folder https://git.io/Jmjo9 17:07:56 <TrueBrain> LordAro: at least that should be filtered when uploading to BaNaNaS 17:14:37 <LordAro> yeah 17:15:25 <LordAro> ooh, it's not 65k lines 17:15:29 <LordAro> just 65k pixels 17:16:19 <LordAro> oh yeah, this is why i was expanding the dropdown lists 17:16:32 <LordAro> i'd forgotten the original reason 17:19:07 *** khavik[m] has joined #openttd 17:22:27 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 17:23:20 *** hamstonkid[m] has joined #openttd 17:23:29 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 17:24:02 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 17:28:09 *** cacheerror[m] has joined #openttd 17:29:24 *** jeremy[m] has joined #openttd 17:34:30 *** phil[m] has joined #openttd 17:36:23 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:36:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:44:42 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:45:14 *** bkilm[m] has joined #openttd 17:48:13 <TrueBrain> Lol 17:50:32 *** gelignite has quit IRC 17:59:11 *** natmac[m] has joined #openttd 18:00:15 *** gdown has joined #openttd 18:00:43 *** Wuzzy has joined #openttd 18:04:05 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 18:08:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JYetC 18:08:15 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:11:02 <glx> hmm seems to be more than 30 minutes 18:11:28 <frosch123> should i move to the netherlands or something? 18:12:03 <frosch123> do you have better politicians? 18:15:05 *** dude[m]1 has joined #openttd 18:27:55 <spnda> CDU go brrrrr 18:31:53 *** delzur has joined #openttd 18:32:03 <TrueBrain> That GitHub... more than 30 minutes drift ... ughhhhhh 18:32:34 <TrueBrain> frosch123: same shit different accent, that is all :p 18:33:23 <frosch123> do they also do: we dicussed all night, and decided on A --- what does A mean? --- we don't know... 18:34:20 <frosch123> also, i only noticed today, that the livestream is just before easter 18:34:24 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:34:41 <frosch123> so, i may procrasintate the preparation until friday morning :p 18:35:30 *** karl[m]5 has joined #openttd 18:36:30 *** Kitrana1 has joined #openttd 18:42:39 *** JamesRoss[m] has joined #openttd 18:42:53 *** Kitrana has quit IRC 18:43:48 *** glothit7ok[m] has joined #openttd 18:45:07 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 18:46:16 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 18:53:58 <TrueBrain> Owh, yeah, early Eastern this year 18:56:26 <frosch123> lol, you didn't notice either? 18:56:47 <frosch123> until yesterday i though it was a regular friday :p 18:57:51 <frosch123> i only noticed when that maundy-thursday-mess-on-1st-of-april mess started 19:03:52 *** natalie[m] has joined #openttd 19:05:19 *** joey[m] has joined #openttd 19:09:56 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:09:59 <andythenorth> yo 19:15:08 *** delzur has quit IRC 19:20:05 *** grag[m] has joined #openttd 19:22:12 <supermop_Home> yo 19:26:28 *** udo[m] has joined #openttd 19:30:05 <supermop_Home> does nmlc cache stuff? 19:30:29 <supermop_Home> its still giving me warning about case in file paths after i corrected those 19:32:39 <frosch123> it caches all the sprites 19:32:53 <frosch123> you can delete the .nmlcache folder, if you want 19:33:35 <frosch123> i have no idea about that "case" warning. probably a windows thing 19:34:55 <TrueBrain> yeah .. good thing we didn't pick the 1st of April to do the livestream :D 19:36:28 <andythenorth> ? 19:38:09 <andythenorth> TrueBrain 1.11 does generate less mountains btw 19:38:15 <andythenorth> I showed the heightmaps in discord 19:38:22 <andythenorth> but isn't that the point? 19:38:44 <TrueBrain> I keep asking for people to show more than a heightmap 19:38:47 <TrueBrain> like settings etc 19:38:47 * andythenorth reading back logs 19:38:52 <andythenorth> same settings 19:38:54 <TrueBrain> but that keeps being unanswered :P 19:38:57 <andythenorth> why would I change the settings? :P 19:38:59 <andythenorth> lol 19:39:05 <TrueBrain> "same settings", owh, THOSE SETTINGS! Yes, now I know 19:39:07 <TrueBrain> shrugs 19:39:09 <andythenorth> yes :) 19:39:26 <andythenorth> I am not pursuing it, LC is both correct, and wrong 19:39:36 <TrueBrain> yeah, so this is still useless information to me 19:39:36 <andythenorth> 1.11 won't make steep mountains where 1.10 would 19:39:45 <TrueBrain> people keep saying that "with some settings" things are "different" 19:39:49 <andythenorth> but how will forests build on steep mountains? 19:39:49 <TrueBrain> yet give me no information what either of those 2 are :) 19:39:55 <TrueBrain> so ... yeah, noise to me atm :) 19:40:08 <TrueBrain> I just wish someone would answer my simple question: with what settings :) 19:40:39 <andythenorth> this demand for actual information seems unreasonable 19:40:45 <andythenorth> why can't you just guess inside people's heads 19:40:49 <andythenorth> or their client settings? 19:40:50 <TrueBrain> you too joined the party of "there are less mountains" 19:40:55 <TrueBrain> without giving any insight in what you are trying :) 19:41:14 <TrueBrain> not sure what people expect to happen .. that we are going to try all settings in an attempt to reproduce? 19:41:17 <TrueBrain> I tried the basics; I failed 19:41:21 <andythenorth> that would be mad 19:41:37 <andythenorth> I am not interested in picking random settings combos and then cherrypicking differences 19:41:56 <TrueBrain> so .. why did you highlight me? :D 19:42:08 <andythenorth> because I like to talk to my friends 19:42:11 <TrueBrain> this is one weird conversation andythenorth :) 19:42:22 <TrueBrain> so I repeat: if you have any settings to share, I am happy to hear 19:42:30 <TrueBrain> otherwise, I think it is a myth and people are just repeating others :) 19:42:41 *** cawal[m] has joined #openttd 19:44:20 <TrueBrain> for now, I am putting money on "it is just a meme" 19:44:26 <andythenorth> ha 19:47:05 <andythenorth> https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/69169501.jpg 19:48:09 <peter1138> Oh no, his IRC client is still connected :/ 19:52:26 *** yoltid[m] has joined #openttd 19:54:12 *** nartir[m] has joined #openttd 19:58:14 <andythenorth> hmm do I misunderstand seed? 19:58:22 *** Aileen[m] has joined #openttd 19:58:49 * andythenorth misunderstands following instructions 20:03:44 *** osvaldo[m] has joined #openttd 20:09:59 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 20:10:45 <glx> <andythenorth> but how will forests build on steep mountains? <-- easy, you make steep mountains, then you cut the head so there's a flat area on top 20:11:21 <glx> but then you'll get complains about flat top 20:11:33 <andythenorth> I found a tt-forums thread of complaints about those 20:11:36 <andythenorth> mostly eddi :) 20:13:25 <andythenorth> oh do default forests have the terraforming thing? 20:13:50 <andythenorth> seems they are flattening mountains 20:15:36 *** hylshols7qui[m] has joined #openttd 20:16:00 *** johanna[m] has joined #openttd 20:16:22 <frosch123> all flat industries have the terraforming thing 20:21:14 <andythenorth> ta 20:21:30 *** igor[m]2 has joined #openttd 20:24:05 *** gretel[m] has joined #openttd 20:26:42 <Timberwolf> Conclusion: nobody likes arctic, replace with Toyland. 20:27:48 <TrueBrain> two toylands?! :D 20:28:04 <Timberwolf> Toyland has never created a terrain generator argument in its entire existence. 20:28:26 *** blathijs has quit IRC 20:28:41 <glx> only annoying sounds ;) 20:30:41 *** dag[m] has joined #openttd 20:32:48 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 20:37:25 *** linda[m] has joined #openttd 20:40:09 *** twom[m] has joined #openttd 20:41:45 * andythenorth back to reading the MHL thread from 2008-2012 20:41:52 <andythenorth> p.43 of 59 20:47:09 *** philip[m] has joined #openttd 20:51:52 *** yur3shmukcik[m] has joined #openttd 20:53:32 <supermop_Home> my complaint is when my (city) town spawns on top of a tall mountain 20:53:55 <supermop_Home> or when mountains have weird crater valleys with no outflow 20:55:12 <supermop_Home> terrain generator should come bundled with some advanced hydrological model to perform 100M years of erosion and geological uplift simulation 20:55:54 <supermop_Home> then a model that simulates 30,000 years of stone age nomadic people wandering around before they settle into towns 20:57:01 <supermop_Home> for good measure throw in some randomization for the 2000 years of development prior to game start 20:57:28 <supermop_Home> "Railroads were never invented in this timeline so you don't get any trains" 20:59:32 <LordAro> :D 21:00:39 <Timberwolf> Data files are just a list of reactions between different types of things, and industries are procedurally generated based on what raw resources spawn in the world and how the simulated society develops. 21:05:15 <andythenorth> we could define single tile industries, give them ins and outs 21:05:22 <andythenorth> and see what the game generates 21:09:57 *** rudolfs[m] has joined #openttd 21:11:01 *** arikover has joined #openttd 21:11:06 <FLHerne> supermop_Home: Did deleting .nmlcache fix the warnings? That would be a bug 21:13:14 *** leward[m] has joined #openttd 21:16:36 *** robert[m]2 has joined #openttd 21:19:47 <TrueBrain> the "max_height" (which is "highest peak") table TGP uses is really really weird 21:20:01 <TrueBrain> the highest peak on a 4kx4k map, flat, is 31 .. but on a 256x256, 8 21:20:17 <TrueBrain> "flat", depending on map size, has a really weird definitions 21:22:01 *** tonyfinn[m] has joined #openttd 21:23:25 *** albert[m] has joined #openttd 21:23:37 *** arikover has quit IRC 21:25:04 <TrueBrain> well, with tnx to the report by andythenorth , I now finally know what people mean with "less mountains in 1.11" 21:25:16 <TrueBrain> if you have extreme settings, like a very low snowline height (as in, 2), and the rest very extreme 21:25:19 <TrueBrain> in 1.11, the hills are less high 21:25:38 <TrueBrain> this is a piece of code that ensures flat is still flat on arctic, instead of hilly 21:25:53 <TrueBrain> if you look at 1.11 without knowing 1.10, it looks fine, imo 21:25:59 <TrueBrain> it is only if you compare, that you see it is different 21:26:10 <TrueBrain> it seems that is what set LC off .. not that I ever guessed anything remotely like that 21:26:20 <TrueBrain> but that happens if people blame it on a certain aspect, instead of reporting the problem :D 21:26:46 <TrueBrain> now the question is: is this a bug? As "it is different" doesn't make anything a bug 21:27:01 <TrueBrain> there is more wrong with that table than just this :D 21:28:04 <TrueBrain> very tempted to not fix the "niche" (as in, very extreme settings), as I know someone is working on changing this for 1.12 in a more sane way 21:28:07 <TrueBrain> opinions? 21:28:58 <glx> using very extreme settings is asking for problems anyway 21:30:45 *** nielsm has quit IRC 21:30:48 <TrueBrain> in 1.10 it was extreme on one end of the spectrum (hilly), in 1.11 it is extreme in the other (flat) 21:30:57 <TrueBrain> I do not really see a way to optimize to both in the current code 21:31:23 <TrueBrain> (without just making a "Custom" setting in the terrain type where you can select your own "highest peak" value :P) 21:31:35 <TrueBrain> if there was more time, I would have done that for 1.11 honestly :D 21:33:22 <TrueBrain> LordAro: any opinions about the matter? 21:33:40 *** pothyurf[m] has joined #openttd 21:33:41 <TrueBrain> lol, that strgen dude has one hell of a niche problem he is fixing :) Well, he has a strgen.exe now :) Guess that covers the strgen.exe request for the next 5 years :P 21:34:20 <glx> why did he need an strgen.exe ? 21:34:41 <TrueBrain> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1242873#p1242873 21:34:57 * andythenorth gravedigs peter1138 speaking truth https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1132546#p1132546 21:35:05 <andythenorth> it's not even that old :D 21:35:27 * andythenorth considers making a heightmap png generator using python PIL 21:35:33 <andythenorth> in a very opinionated way :P 21:35:46 <andythenorth> wonder how far I could get before declaring it impossible 21:36:10 <TrueBrain> hmm .. is TGP a true perlin noise generator, or is it cheating .. I cannot remember :D 21:36:33 <andythenorth> I started reading about noise generators 21:36:55 *** fiddeldibu[m] has joined #openttd 21:36:55 <andythenorth> the main benefits of perlin seem to be (1) computationally cheap (2) algorithm is open source 21:37:05 <TrueBrain> well, you can do something nice with it 21:37:10 <TrueBrain> generate different resolution maps 21:37:15 <TrueBrain> with the same characteristics 21:37:20 <TrueBrain> as it is rather deterministic 21:37:28 <TrueBrain> so you could make an ingame preview of the heightmap you are about to play 21:37:55 <TrueBrain> (without taking for-ever on a 4kx4k) 21:37:59 <TrueBrain> you just generate a low-res variant 21:38:33 <andythenorth> could do it backwards 21:38:40 <andythenorth> heightmap image first :P 21:38:45 <andythenorth> then map from that 21:38:47 * andythenorth stupid ideas 21:41:52 <glx> TrueBrain: for me it would be easier to write a grf to do exactly that, but well 21:42:14 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 21:43:00 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 21:44:18 <TrueBrain> glx: to generate previews? :D 21:44:30 <TrueBrain> or what part do you mean? 21:44:42 <glx> no to change default vehicle names :) 21:45:13 <TrueBrain> ah :D 21:45:27 <TrueBrain> well, if you can help him with a very simple prototype to do that, he would be very appreciative I hope 21:45:31 <TrueBrain> but clearly he failed in his attempts 21:45:45 <TrueBrain> I originally considered doing that, but I realised: I have no clue how :P 21:47:52 <TrueBrain> "When OTTD can support cliffs, this routine may not be necessary." 21:47:59 <TrueBrain> I love that the assumption is that it ever would 21:48:22 <andythenorth> :) 21:49:04 *** jeeg[m] has joined #openttd 21:49:31 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest769 21:49:33 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 21:50:31 <TrueBrain> wauw, so TGP really doesn't do subarctic 21:50:39 <TrueBrain> the terrain generation favours high mountains above others 21:50:44 <dwfreed> I mean, RollerCoaster Tycoon supports cliffs 21:51:08 <TrueBrain> frosch123: how difficult is adding cliffs? :D 21:51:23 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:51:34 <dwfreed> in the original game, one of the early maps was a mine-themed park 21:51:50 <andythenorth> cliffs could be done as a visual hack 21:51:54 <andythenorth> but eh 21:52:02 <andythenorth> I'm not drawing them 21:52:13 <TrueBrain> I wonder in how many places the game breaks :P 21:52:27 <dwfreed> wtb train tunnels 21:52:40 <dwfreed> and road tunnels 21:53:07 <andythenorth> just do them like we do foundations :P 21:53:18 <andythenorth> still a one tile slope, but the graphics look like a cliff 21:53:31 <frosch123> glx: TrueBrain: we have a "original vehicles names" and "better vehicle names" newgrf on bananas, for exactly that reason :p 21:53:37 <frosch123> they are both usable as static newgrf 21:54:07 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 21:54:11 <TrueBrain> well, someone who understands that part of OpenTTD can explain it to him :P Or not .. at least he can do his thing now .. or fail .. or both :P 21:54:29 <frosch123> TrueBrain: cliffs are a) ugly b) only work in 2 directions facing the camera 21:54:40 <TrueBrain> fair 21:54:45 <TrueBrain> so there we have it: no cliffs people 21:55:37 <frosch123> i dream of adding a mapgen preview, that displays more than 3 slopes in a row in "red" 21:55:46 <Timberwolf> https://twitter.com/Jackstilgoe/status/1374472058164314120 21:55:54 <Timberwolf> But why don't the other ships just clip through it? 21:56:15 <frosch123> maps become stupid when the intended slopes exceed what is possible 21:56:17 <TrueBrain> didn't they upgrade to Real Life 1.10?! 21:56:30 <TrueBrain> frosch123: how do you mean? 21:56:40 *** Guest769 has quit IRC 21:57:20 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 21:57:22 <frosch123> if tgp wants to create steeper slopes than possible, ottd will create long slopes 21:57:40 <TrueBrain> the "correction" algorithm for it is .. something special, yes :) 21:57:46 <frosch123> i consider that very ugly, and bad to play on, because terraforming a single tile will cascade very far 21:58:10 <TrueBrain> that is why I never really got why we would more than 16 height levels :P 21:58:15 <TrueBrain> but that is not because of 16 21:58:18 <TrueBrain> but because of long slopes 21:58:22 <frosch123> so, i would prefer if tgp would not generate long steep slopes, or that there would be a warning/preview about that 21:58:46 <frosch123> i like 32 or 48 height levels 21:59:06 <frosch123> but anything more only makes sense on huge maps, which i consider stupid as well :p 21:59:15 <TrueBrain> either my perlin noise knowledge is too dusty, or TGP in its essence is not a perlin noise generator :P 21:59:39 <frosch123> TrueBrain: how did you progress with automating the max-height level? 21:59:55 <frosch123> or were you scared by all the complaints? :p 21:59:59 <TrueBrain> automating? 22:00:14 <TrueBrain> I had some really constructive talks about TGP on Discord; it is shocking, I know :) 22:00:23 * andythenorth has finished reading the MHL thread 22:00:27 <frosch123> generating the map with no limit, and then setting the max-height setting to the result afterwards 22:00:30 <TrueBrain> we found out OpenGFX+landscape offsets the perception of the NewGRF specs :P 22:00:37 <andythenorth> and the carefully constructed "MHL is not in 1.5" thread :P 22:00:56 <TrueBrain> frosch123: honestly, the main thing I am stuck with is the NewGRF snowline height 22:00:58 * andythenorth found out why we do what we do 22:01:02 <TrueBrain> that is to say, for OpenGFX+landscape, there is 0 issue 22:01:10 <andythenorth> goes it throw out newgrf? 22:01:11 <TrueBrain> the only issue, somewhat, is with for example alpinew 22:01:20 <andythenorth> why can't we just break grfs? 22:01:28 <TrueBrain> where people abuse the max-height setting to get ride of the snow 22:01:33 <frosch123> TrueBrain: originally the intention was also, that industries could detect whether they are built on high altitude or not 22:01:38 <andythenorth> or to put it another way, why have we broken my grfs a couple of times? 22:01:40 <andythenorth> but not others? 22:01:41 <frosch123> but i have no idea whehter anyone ever used that 22:01:54 <frosch123> or whether people only used below/above snow line for industries 22:02:01 <TrueBrain> so if we clamp the NewGRF snowline height between the sea level and highest peak 22:02:10 <TrueBrain> some users might complain that such grfs no longer do what they expect 22:02:19 <andythenorth> 'some users might complain' :) 22:02:24 <frosch123> in either case, the intention for newgrf was always to provide them with relative heights 22:02:27 <andythenorth> if I complain more, does that cancel the others? 22:02:30 <frosch123> which works fine if you can auto-detect that 22:02:32 <andythenorth> is it like a vote? 22:02:39 <glx> don't forget long slope with a transmitter on top 22:02:46 <andythenorth> glx they're the best :) 22:02:48 <TrueBrain> " The values can be any value between 0 and FFh. FF means 'no snow'; other values are scaled to the number of possible heightlevels of the map. " 22:02:52 <TrueBrain> frosch123: problem for me is this ^^ 22:02:57 <TrueBrain> it says POSSIBLE heightlevels 22:03:05 <andythenorth> glx 48 continuous ugly tiles and then a transmitter :) 22:03:08 <andythenorth> but never a lighthouse :( 22:03:13 <andythenorth> good transmission though 22:03:15 <TrueBrain> well, specs say nothing about GRFv7 also scaling to it, but that are details :P 22:03:29 <frosch123> TrueBrain: grfv7 is no concern 22:03:34 <TrueBrain> so I enter the NewGRF area there, and not sure how to navigate that :D 22:03:35 <frosch123> if people care, they can upgrade 22:03:51 <frosch123> give people options to upgrade, and they will 22:04:12 <frosch123> what is your problem with "POSSIBLE"? 22:04:17 <TrueBrain> honestly, if we could change the NewGRF spec to have both "relative to highest peak" mode and "absolute mode" 22:04:26 <TrueBrain> we can fix the rest accordingly 22:04:49 <frosch123> newgrf can read "max-height", they can do the multiply themself? 22:04:58 <TrueBrain> that is what OpenGFX+landscape does, yes 22:05:10 <TrueBrain> so yeah, the latter mode is not needed 22:05:15 <TrueBrain> the first is a change of spec, strictly seen 22:05:22 <frosch123> still, i don't understand the problem with "POSSIBLE" 22:05:36 <frosch123> you can freely choose that value 22:05:52 <TrueBrain> lets see if we still talk about the same thing :) 22:06:08 <TrueBrain> NewGRF snowline height scales 0 .. 255 to 0 .. max-height atm 22:06:15 <TrueBrain> where max-height is really height-limit 22:06:27 <TrueBrain> if we change that to scale to 0 .. highest-peak 22:06:34 <TrueBrain> people who have been using it in a certain way 22:06:37 <TrueBrain> will now have different results 22:06:55 <TrueBrain> the word "possible heightlevels" in specs suggests to me that the height-limit is meant 22:06:57 <TrueBrain> not highest-peak 22:07:02 <TrueBrain> so I can see people tripping over that 22:07:08 <frosch123> ah :) i do not suggest to remove the "max-height" setting 22:07:13 <TrueBrain> but I cannot navigate this, as I do not know NewGRF enough; I can only present you what I found :) 22:07:24 <frosch123> instead add an "auto" value, that sets the setting after map gen 22:07:48 <frosch123> map height will still be limited after generation, just not during geration 22:07:53 <TrueBrain> oof, that is a bit cheaty, but I guess that works 22:08:15 <TrueBrain> personally .. I would rather have the height limit to always be 255, as why if a map generated, say, up to 10 heigh 22:08:18 <frosch123> give it a bonus of 10% or 16 height levels, so players can still terraform the peaks 22:08:19 <TrueBrain> can I not build to 11? 22:08:20 <TrueBrain> or 12? 22:08:40 <frosch123> setting max-height to 255 makes it useless 22:08:42 <TrueBrain> and so it becomes fuzzy again :D 22:08:44 <TrueBrain> yes! 22:08:46 <TrueBrain> exactly! 22:08:48 <TrueBrain> lets do that :D 22:08:49 <frosch123> then you would have to add a new variable "max peak" 22:08:50 <TrueBrain> :P 22:08:54 <frosch123> so what's the point? 22:08:54 <TrueBrain> yup 22:09:13 <TrueBrain> one is a lot easier to understand, mostly 22:10:21 <TrueBrain> well, what I was currently thinking: add to the dropdown of very flat / flat / .. an extra one: "Custom" 22:10:26 <TrueBrain> where people can set any value they like 22:10:27 <frosch123> problem with "max peak" is, that it changes during the game 22:10:32 <TrueBrain> to tell TGP to use that as "max peak" 22:10:35 <frosch123> that's kind of too complicated for most purposes 22:10:44 <TrueBrain> that is what I would consider a "max peak" 22:10:50 <TrueBrain> but it is during generation only 22:10:57 *** ad5twoknebor[m] has joined #openttd 22:11:14 <TrueBrain> well, I guess both ideas work together fine 22:11:21 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 22:11:24 <TrueBrain> height-limit defaults to "auto" 22:11:33 <TrueBrain> "max peak" to nudge TGP into a certain direction 22:11:38 <TrueBrain> when it is done, height-limit is calculated 22:11:43 <TrueBrain> used to control NewGRF snowline height 22:12:11 <TrueBrain> allows "full control" on both sides 22:12:18 <TrueBrain> E_TOO_MANY_SETTINGS, but what-ever 22:14:34 <TrueBrain> totally unrelated: frosch123 , why can you only set the snowline table once? I want to make a NewGRF that has a few years of harsh winters, followed by long summers! 22:14:59 <Xaroth> Global Warning GRF 22:15:03 <Xaroth> warming, even. 22:16:08 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 22:16:14 <TrueBrain> owh, the setting is called "max_heightlevel", that works too 22:16:33 <TrueBrain> frosch123: the only thing with keeping the setting for me, would be the question, what is the default: "auto" or 255 :) But that is something to figure out over time 22:16:33 * LordAro scrolling back 22:16:45 *** ircer[m] has joined #openttd 22:16:53 <LordAro> TrueBrain: surprised you actually gave the strgen.exe, rather than suggesting to make a (working) newgrf 22:17:06 <LordAro> TrueBrain: no opinions on arctic, tbh 22:17:18 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I warned him what he is walking in to, so .. everyone is free to do his niche :) 22:17:19 <LordAro> ideally any user facing change should be documented one way or another 22:18:12 <LordAro> ah, glx also suggested a grf 22:18:18 <LordAro> also, lol cliffs 22:18:58 <LordAro> fun fact: AoE2 uses the "visual trick" method of cliffs 22:19:36 <frosch123> TrueBrain: you can default it to "auto" for new games, that won't change it for savegames 22:19:44 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:20:07 <TrueBrain> I know :) 22:20:12 <TrueBrain> I just want it to be 255 for new games :P 22:20:15 <TrueBrain> :D 22:20:33 <andythenorth> such trips down memory lanes https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=979642#p979642 22:20:41 <andythenorth> I wish old forum pages were in black and white 22:20:43 <andythenorth> like the past 22:20:46 <TrueBrain> no, it is fine, "auto" bridges the problem between having the setting and how it is used 22:20:57 <frosch123> TrueBrain: that's opinionated. i think maps that actually reach that height level are ugly :p 22:21:22 <TrueBrain> maybe even "auto" is not needed, just a higher default value 22:21:27 <frosch123> TrueBrain: also, you can of course invent a new ambient callback for dynamic snow line height 22:21:29 <TrueBrain> or a warning if TGP wants to generate higher 22:21:36 *** Samu has quit IRC 22:21:56 <TrueBrain> hmm .. a warning is far easier than "auto" :P 22:21:58 <TrueBrain> let the user fix it :D 22:22:10 <frosch123> TrueBrain: once we considered adding a newgrf variable for "moon phase" 22:22:17 <TrueBrain> haha :D 22:22:20 <frosch123> because of silly requests 22:22:34 <TrueBrain> the more I think about mapgen, the more I realise that presets are a bit must-have to make a clear UI for it :P 22:22:38 <TrueBrain> most users just want "Flat" 22:22:44 <TrueBrain> just experts want to tune every nob 22:23:11 <andythenorth> it's like audiophiles 22:23:15 <frosch123> oh dear. can i add a bug that crashes the game when people use "flat" 22:23:21 <andythenorth> they convince themselves the knobs make a difference 22:23:23 <frosch123> people who want flat should play factorio 22:23:28 *** elliot[m] has joined #openttd 22:23:34 <TrueBrain> there is always "very flat" :P 22:23:35 <frosch123> the flat map is the most boring part of factorio 22:23:36 <andythenorth> presets-as-content :P 22:23:40 <andythenorth> TGP grfs 22:23:52 <andythenorth> "A bit like Norway" 22:23:55 <andythenorth> "Quite Welsh" 22:24:10 <andythenorth> "Mostly Holland, but with 2 weird Alps" 22:24:22 <TrueBrain> so, "auto" .. I guess it could be: std::max(40, highest-peak) 22:24:30 <TrueBrain> std::max(40, highest-peak + 2) 22:24:31 <TrueBrain> :P 22:24:55 <frosch123> std::max(32, highest_peak + 16) 22:25:05 <LordAro> andythenorth: :D 22:25:11 <andythenorth> I am really curious if I can fake a terrain gen without knowing anything about computer science 22:25:13 <TrueBrain> "handjeklap" 22:25:13 <Xaroth> Mostly Holland would be so insanely popular, andythenorth, since that's pretty much "Perfectly flat" 22:25:26 <TrueBrain> frosch123: sure .. means 512x512 always fits, for all types 22:25:30 <andythenorth> I used to write a lot of fake physics for flash games 22:25:32 <TrueBrain> as in, they are < 32 22:25:36 <andythenorth> using basic trig, and tuning 22:25:43 <TrueBrain> so it only has an effect on larger maps 22:25:49 <TrueBrain> which feels sane 22:25:55 <andythenorth> the difference I guess is that I did actually study physics, so I knew what I was ignoring :P 22:26:14 <TrueBrain> next would be to add a warning if your highest-possible-peak is below max-height 22:26:20 <TrueBrain> so you know some mountains are cut down 22:26:23 <TrueBrain> I think? 22:26:55 <frosch123> is it that predictable? 22:27:00 <TrueBrain> yes 22:27:10 <TrueBrain> well, kinda 22:27:15 <TrueBrain> the slope-issue you described earlier 22:27:20 <TrueBrain> means it might not reach it 22:27:33 <TrueBrain> (it can lower the highest peak) 22:28:55 <frosch123> so that strgen guy asked for 2 years how to change language files, when there was a newgrf solution :p 22:29:08 <TrueBrain> he clearly tried the NewGRF way :) 22:29:21 <frosch123> but did not find the right topics 22:29:38 <TrueBrain> and nobody seemed to want to help him 22:29:44 <TrueBrain> everyone was just giving him more problems to solve 22:29:48 <TrueBrain> instead of asking: wtf are you doing :P 22:30:10 <frosch123> static-newgrf is equally niche as their request 22:30:15 <TrueBrain> yup 22:30:36 <TrueBrain> can we also make snowline height "auto" by default 22:30:40 <TrueBrain> and put it on like 80% or what-ever 22:30:48 <TrueBrain> and the desert line on 25% 22:30:59 <TrueBrain> means niche people can do what-ever-the-fuck-they-want 22:31:05 <TrueBrain> and new players get maps that work 22:31:27 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i would rather change the unit of "snow line height" to "percentage" then 22:31:41 <frosch123> percentage water, percentage snow 22:31:44 <frosch123> many games have that 22:31:45 <TrueBrain> "both" would be ideal 22:31:57 <frosch123> though, one is area, the other is height :p 22:32:17 <TrueBrain> euh, yes, if you mean: percentage of map covered with snow 22:32:23 <TrueBrain> that is a totally different calculation to make :D 22:32:33 <andythenorth> water is already % ? 22:32:40 <frosch123> yes 22:32:50 <frosch123> you can even enter a "custom" percentage 22:32:54 * andythenorth wasn't smoking crack then :) 22:33:03 <TrueBrain> it makes a histogram already 22:33:09 <frosch123> you can probably use the same algorithm for snow area 22:33:20 <TrueBrain> that would greatly change what it means 22:33:23 <andythenorth> it has been quite a wtf? day :P 22:33:27 <andythenorth> don't trust my eyes 22:33:31 <TrueBrain> people will still want to set the height level, as that is what they are used to etc 22:34:05 <TrueBrain> I think it is sensible to have them all equal, btw 22:34:14 <frosch123> not changing something because "you are used to it" is stupid 22:34:31 <TrueBrain> but not thinking already about how we deal with those stupid people, is also stupid :) 22:34:37 <frosch123> it's okay if people want to play on a certain type of map 22:35:01 <TrueBrain> glx: who was toying with histograms a few weeks back? 22:35:01 <frosch123> but changing units from height-level to percentag does not change that 22:35:04 <TrueBrain> I remember you giving feedback on it 22:35:06 <TrueBrain> remember the PR? 22:35:07 <frosch123> they just have to try new values 22:35:24 <TrueBrain> frosch123: and do we do the same with desert? 22:35:31 <spnda> does bananas-api not like a tag like "Test 3"? 22:35:36 <TrueBrain> to just equal the field there? 22:36:27 <frosch123> why not? 22:36:42 <TrueBrain> sounds sane to me, honestly 22:36:46 <TrueBrain> people can pick full-snow 22:36:47 <TrueBrain> no snow 22:36:50 <TrueBrain> and the map-type they want 22:37:01 <frosch123> "percentage desert" is way better than "height for rain-forest", because rain-forest is way too obscure 22:37:05 <TrueBrain> adding a "custom highest peak" over very flat / flat / .., would make a lot of people happy too 22:37:29 <spnda> ayyyy my cli can now update package info 22:37:31 <TrueBrain> guess we move "max height" to settings in this scenario too? 22:37:42 <frosch123> does flat/hilly/mountainious only affect highest-peak? 22:37:47 <frosch123> or does it also change frequencies? 22:38:01 <TrueBrain> good question, it does two things, I keep forgetting that 22:38:23 <TrueBrain> no, I am wrong 22:38:27 <TrueBrain> only highest peak 22:38:28 <frosch123> you cannot scale the elevation just like that, or you get those ugly long slopes 22:38:42 <glx> I don't remember anything about histograms 22:38:53 <TrueBrain> glx: hmm .. 22:38:58 <TrueBrain> someone was doing something with the height of the map 22:39:06 <TrueBrain> and it was dreadfully slow 22:39:13 <TrueBrain> but .. GitHub search is not helping :D 22:39:20 <glx> oh, probably samu 22:39:37 <frosch123> iirc tgp generated the height in 16bit first, then picks a sea-level that results in the sea-percentage 22:39:58 <glx> I think it was auto snow height 22:40:07 <TrueBrain> ah, so something similar 22:40:09 <TrueBrain> tnx glx 22:40:45 <spnda> TrueBrain: I assume one archives a bananas package with doing the update request and setting 'archived' to true? 22:41:12 <TrueBrain> archived has to be done via Pull Request atm I think? Not sure if the API supports it, and the frontend-web doesn't, or both don't 22:41:14 <TrueBrain> try it 22:41:18 <TrueBrain> stop asking me stuff you can test :P 22:41:20 <TrueBrain> :D 22:41:27 <TrueBrain> like I know what we wrote 6 months ago 22:41:57 <glx> IIRC it was counting all heights and analysing distribution to determine best snow line 22:42:07 <TrueBrain> frosch123: TGP generates the map, then sinks the map to get to the water percentage 22:42:10 <TrueBrain> it is pretty neat :) 22:42:55 <TrueBrain> owh, no, it scales it 22:43:01 <TrueBrain> reading is hard 22:43:09 <TrueBrain> that also heavily influences highest peak? 22:43:36 <TrueBrain> but yeah, a percentage snow is easy to implement I think 22:43:39 <TrueBrain> percentage desert too 22:45:59 <andythenorth> minimum lake size? :P 22:46:05 * andythenorth unreasonable feature requests 22:46:05 <spnda> TrueBrain: Either it didn't show or I can't see it, is why I am asking 22:46:10 <spnda> doesn't show* 22:46:19 <TrueBrain> then it is via PR only :) 22:46:29 <spnda> :( 22:46:41 <TrueBrain> you are free to contribute to bananas-api :) 22:46:42 <frosch123> so tropic: configurable percentage of sea, fixed distance between sea and deset, configurable percentage of desert, rest rain-forest ? 22:47:04 <TrueBrain> "fixed distance between sea and desert", what do you mean? 22:47:14 <andythenorth> strip of green coast? 22:47:19 <frosch123> there are 4 areas in tropic 22:47:20 <spnda> I want to get this CLI to have implemented all the functionality it can before I get myself together to write python to pr sth into bananas-api 22:47:25 <spnda> also have school stuff I need to finish 22:47:32 <frosch123> sea, normal, desert, rain-forest 22:47:43 <TrueBrain> there is "normal" too? Lol 22:47:58 <andythenorth> normal is green, but grows different trees? 22:48:12 <TrueBrain> owh, I always considered normal and rain-forest the same :D 22:48:20 <frosch123> nope :p 22:48:24 <frosch123> very different in fact 22:48:27 <TrueBrain> right, yes, that makes it a bit more difficult indeed 22:48:36 <TrueBrain> the other way around: % normal, % rain-forest 22:48:38 <andythenorth> 'biomes or bust'? 22:48:41 <andythenorth> oof RIP 22:48:51 <frosch123> TropicZone has some docs about it 22:48:54 <TrueBrain> % normal is weird, it is not based on heightlevel :P 22:49:07 <frosch123> rain-forest has special effects, like extra tree growth, and ambient sounds 22:49:27 <TrueBrain> how is desert done now, hmm 22:49:33 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/tgp.cpp#L995 22:49:36 <TrueBrain> that comment is priceless 22:49:40 <frosch123> normal is not really important, just some separation to make desert not touch the sea, because we have no sprites for that :p 22:49:41 <TrueBrain> especially in the current context :) 22:50:44 *** Heiki[m] has joined #openttd 22:51:30 <andythenorth> that comment :P 22:51:31 <TrueBrain> can we say for % desert that normal is also part of that % 22:51:33 <andythenorth> I have seen before :P 22:51:34 <TrueBrain> or would that be too far off? 22:52:02 <andythenorth> I enjoy never having seen a flat valley between 2 mountains in game ever using TGP 22:52:12 <frosch123> on 64x64 it's probably off in all cases :p 22:52:53 <TrueBrain> currently everything is normal first 22:53:05 <TrueBrain> desert done up to 1/4th of the map 22:53:09 <TrueBrain> rest rain forest 22:54:12 <TrueBrain> _make_desert_or_rainforest_data is such a lovely table 22:54:23 <TrueBrain> no information what it does, nothing :D 22:54:55 <TrueBrain> damn, that is inefficient, holy crap 22:55:02 <TrueBrain> fort every tile it checks all neighbour tiles if they are not water 22:55:04 <TrueBrain> to make it desert 22:55:07 <TrueBrain> sure, it works, but boyyyyy 22:55:12 <frosch123> widelands shows percentages for all terrain types, the last one is computed as "left over", but still shown 22:55:30 <TrueBrain> the issue here is that "normal" cannot really be a %, right? 22:56:19 <frosch123> normal and rain-forest are too obscure. i doubt anyone knows their existence, unless they read the code 22:56:27 <frosch123> desert is very noticeable :p 22:56:47 <frosch123> so, yes, normal should be "fixed", and rainforest should be "rest" 22:56:54 <TrueBrain> so I think we could just cheat a bit 22:57:00 <TrueBrain> and act like normal is part of the desert % 22:57:15 <TrueBrain> it finds the correct heightlevel to get close to that % anyway 22:57:22 <TrueBrain> so I doubt you can measure that effect :P 22:57:46 <TrueBrain> that would make implementing it easy 22:57:49 <TrueBrain> as we have the histogram 22:59:07 <frosch123> sea level and desert can use the 16bit tgp height. just snow level has to use a real height level in-game 22:59:50 <TrueBrain> what is the difference there? 23:00:16 <frosch123> tropic zone is stored by tile, and not changed in-game 23:00:43 <TrueBrain> we can simply convert the TGP height-level to a real height-level for snow, not? 23:00:49 <frosch123> but snowyness changes, when terraforming or when variable snowline 23:01:22 <TrueBrain> I do not follow; I think I miss some information here :D 23:01:43 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i mean: if the map had 50% of tiles at height 1, 50% of tiles at height 2, you cannot achieve 10% snow 23:01:47 <frosch123> only 0%, 50% or 100% 23:01:52 <TrueBrain> absolutely 23:02:04 <frosch123> but for sea and desert you do not have that problem 23:02:14 <TrueBrain> desert is also height-based, currently 23:02:15 <frosch123> because it can use higher-precision height 23:02:24 <TrueBrain> it is done long after TGP 23:02:33 <frosch123> yes, but that is changeable :) 23:02:38 <TrueBrain> is it? 23:02:45 <TrueBrain> hmm, I guess 23:02:55 <TrueBrain> that is incredibly difficult, I think 23:03:10 <frosch123> really? 23:03:11 <TrueBrain> as you need to store the original height up to the point you can set the tile-type 23:03:44 <TrueBrain> CreateDesertOrRainForest() currently runs after terrain generator 23:03:45 <frosch123> it's the same as sea, isn't it? 23:03:46 <supermop_Home> whoa i missed a lot 23:03:49 <TrueBrain> because .. original terrain generator :P 23:04:09 <TrueBrain> sea is only scaling the map, not? 23:04:22 <TrueBrain> which is done by TGP 23:04:25 <frosch123> don't you have to rewrite CreateDesertOrRainForest when making desert a percentage? 23:04:32 <TrueBrain> not really 23:04:37 <TrueBrain> uint max_desert_height = CeilDiv(_settings_game.construction.max_heightlevel, 4); 23:04:40 <TrueBrain> only thing that needs changing 23:04:45 <frosch123> hmm, ok, i assumed you would set tropiczone directly after tgp 23:04:48 <TrueBrain> _desert_line_height :P 23:04:54 <frosch123> and remove the old stuff 23:05:05 <TrueBrain> I had no intentions of making my life more difficult :D 23:05:08 <TrueBrain> but I like your idea honestly 23:05:14 <TrueBrain> just not sure it looks nice 23:05:16 <andythenorth> I thought we had signed up for biomes or bust? 23:05:20 <andythenorth> and I was drawing new sprites? 23:05:23 <TrueBrain> it would make a blocky desert/tropic line 23:05:40 * andythenorth looks forward to snow in desert 23:05:45 <andythenorth> and hot spring in arctic 23:05:47 <TrueBrain> either way, I still like the idea 23:05:50 <TrueBrain> but it is an addition :D 23:06:04 <frosch123> TrueBrain: there are half-desert tiles 23:06:26 <frosch123> the transition works fine everywhere, doesn't it? 23:06:45 <TrueBrain> hard to explain wat I mean, honestly :D I cannot really put it in words :P 23:06:56 <TrueBrain> but I do like your idea, but not for iteration #1 :D 23:07:04 <andythenorth> https://static.toiimg.com/photo/62457620/.jpg 23:07:18 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 23:07:30 <TrueBrain> (as in, I can cheapskate my way out of it for now, so at least we can see how that looks/feels) 23:09:00 <TrueBrain> https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/da38e8c5b2d9bb4f15be3e60c4724729 23:09:02 <TrueBrain> in summary, right? 23:09:16 *** jact[m] has joined #openttd 23:10:07 <TrueBrain> minor updates 23:10:53 <spnda> How would one add a new update for a package? Just tried it using the same name and all, https://bananas.staging.openttd.org/package/newgrf. There's now 2 here. 23:11:12 <LordAro> TrueBrain: which of those happen for 1.11? 23:11:18 <TrueBrain> all 23:11:21 <TrueBrain> what I wrote is trivial 23:11:48 <andythenorth> seems rational 23:11:49 <frosch123> TrueBrain: be careful with custom highest-peak 23:12:02 <frosch123> you cannot have hieght 200 on a 64x64 map :p 23:12:08 <TrueBrain> spnda: I have no clue what you are trying to ask, sorry :( 23:12:18 <TrueBrain> frosch123: you can, but .. it won't be that high :P 23:12:22 <TrueBrain> okay, warning for that too :D 23:12:23 <Timberwolf> TrueBrain: Ooh, I like that. 23:12:41 <Timberwolf> Could do some interesting things on 1024x256 (or similar) maps with freeform edges. 23:12:51 <spnda> TrueBrain: I'm trying to add a new version, e.g. 0.2, to a NewGRF that is at version 0.1. So it is an update. I don't see a way of doing it per the update part of the API, neither through the new part of it. So how would one do it? 23:12:56 <frosch123> spnda: the unique-id is the key, name is just an attribute 23:13:04 <LordAro> TrueBrain: very well, seems good 23:13:07 * Timberwolf basically took one look and went, "excellent, ways to break it and then complain" 23:13:09 <spnda> frosch123: It errors if I give it an unique-id in the body 23:13:14 <LordAro> better get on that quickly :) 23:13:26 <frosch123> spnda: unique-id for newgrf is the grfid 23:13:29 <Timberwolf> But seriously it looks good, fixes most of the grumbles I have about terrain gen :) 23:13:33 <LordAro> needs as much testing as well can manage 23:13:42 <LordAro> as we* 23:13:51 <Timberwolf> https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/da38e8c5b2d9bb4f15be3e60c4724729 23:13:51 <spnda> frosch123: Oh, so if I upload the same GRF with the same grfid, it will update it as an update? 23:14:00 <frosch123> yes 23:14:01 <Timberwolf> Ack, stupid over-eager paste. 23:14:09 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 23:14:17 <spnda> And I cannot force it to also do it with a grfid update? 23:14:18 <frosch123> different grf-id, different entry 23:14:31 <frosch123> no, that would be replaced_by 23:14:38 <spnda> ah right 23:14:40 <spnda> thanks a lot 23:14:44 <frosch123> and is DISENCOURAGED for 10 YEARS 23:15:02 <frosch123> was i clear enough? :p 23:15:11 <spnda> yeah, definitely 23:15:28 <frosch123> grfids are not for versioning, we have action14 version for that 23:15:30 <TrueBrain> yeah ... the times people made a new grfid every upload .. 23:15:31 <TrueBrain> good times 23:15:38 <spnda> i'm gonna check how bananas-api extracts the GRFID, so I can replicate that here so I don't allow the same GRFID being uploaded. 23:15:59 <frosch123> what are you doing? 23:16:30 <spnda> a bananas-cli, similar to bananas-frontend-cli and back then, musa 23:16:39 <spnda> but in a modern fashion and with interactiveness 23:16:45 <spnda> see https://github.com/spnda/bananas-cli 23:16:46 <TrueBrain> sadly not written in Python :P 23:16:52 <spnda> 'sadly' 23:16:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:16:57 <TrueBrain> :D :D 23:17:00 <TrueBrain> sorry, had to troll :P 23:18:19 <frosch123> ok, no idea why you implement something like that, but have fun :) 23:18:29 <andythenorth> newgrf terrain gen when? 23:18:39 <andythenorth> oh wait, it's all fine, just has a weird UI :P 23:18:41 <spnda> I want to differentiate between new package and new package update, so I can make it easier for the user 23:19:10 <spnda> as in the commands etc 23:19:23 <TrueBrain> okay .. if I change snow_line_height in settings_game .. that does not change it for new games, right? 23:19:35 <frosch123> i don't get "cli+interactive". either i want a non-interactive cli for scripting, or i want an interactive web-interface 23:19:36 <spnda> so one can just write "bananas manage", then click "update package" and only get the options that are relevant for that 23:19:41 <TrueBrain> or should I store this in a new global, and save that in the savegame? 23:19:49 <frosch123> "interactive cli" is weird to me. but you do you :) 23:19:58 <TrueBrain> (in other words, can I abuse settings to store these values, as they are no longer settings) 23:20:10 <spnda> I mean, it's based on https://github.com/cli/cli, and I quite like that one too 23:20:37 <frosch123> TrueBrain: snow line is evaluted during the game? 23:20:45 <TrueBrain> not on load game? 23:20:45 <frosch123> i don't understand your question 23:20:51 <TrueBrain> that would mean it changes when you load the game :P 23:20:54 <frosch123> snowline is in the tile loop 23:21:05 <frosch123> tiles get resnowed when bulldozed 23:21:21 <frosch123> you can terraform them to different height, and the will resnow 23:21:36 <TrueBrain> yes, we are talking about two completely different things now :D 23:21:49 <TrueBrain> after TGP has run, I calculate snow_line_height based on the percentage 23:21:55 <TrueBrain> I need to store this in the savegame somewhere 23:22:00 <TrueBrain> I can abuse _settings_game.game_creation.snow_line_height for this 23:22:04 <TrueBrain> but it is no longer a setting 23:22:37 <frosch123> i think we already do that somewhere else :p 23:22:43 <TrueBrain> that doesn't make it okay :D 23:22:48 <TrueBrain> I also have to add desert_line_height 23:22:53 <frosch123> also, can we block spnda spamming bananas-staging failure mails? :p 23:22:56 <TrueBrain> so I can just make it a new blob somewhere 23:23:07 <spnda> oh no 23:23:09 <TrueBrain> frosch123: haha :D Well, honestly, I should fix those problems 23:23:50 <spnda> i mean it's mostly stuff like '/new-package/tus' missing the last slash after 'tus' throwing a 404 error 23:23:58 <spnda> which is weird anyway? 23:24:12 <frosch123> anyway, night 23:24:14 <TrueBrain> no, what frosch123 refers to, is that after a new upload, we poke the server to reload his database 23:24:15 <TrueBrain> night frosch123 23:24:20 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 23:24:22 <TrueBrain> if this happens too often, failures happen 23:24:32 <spnda> hmm? what do you mean 23:24:38 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/BaNaNaS-staging/actions 23:24:42 <TrueBrain> it is an infra thing 23:24:45 <TrueBrain> nothing to worry about 23:24:52 <spnda> oh didn't even notice 23:25:01 <TrueBrain> you do not 23:25:02 <TrueBrain> we do :) 23:25:08 <spnda> yes that would be me testing my update commands 23:25:16 <TrueBrain> owh, wait, ALL server reloads fail 23:25:16 <TrueBrain> oops 23:25:17 <spnda> more like github does, all those actions lol 23:25:18 <TrueBrain> that is another bug 23:25:44 *** einar[m] has joined #openttd 23:25:46 <andythenorth> ok the TGP show ended 23:25:50 * andythenorth should go to bed 23:25:58 <andythenorth> it's a nice box set though, recommended 23:26:11 <andythenorth> plenty of online discussion about it 23:26:12 <spnda> hmm I can't find any code reading the grfid from grfs in the bananas-api or bananas-server... interesting 23:26:36 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:28:01 <TrueBrain> right, this should fix the GHA failures 23:28:18 <TrueBrain> spnda: https://github.com/OpenTTD/bananas-api/tree/master/bananas_api/new_upload/readers 23:28:45 <spnda> oh god what the hell is that file 23:28:56 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/bananas-api/blob/master/bananas_api/new_upload/readers/newgrf.py#L323 to be very exact, in case of NewGRFs 23:29:21 <spnda> ok I think I've decided to *not* do it like this 23:29:46 <TrueBrain> its a free world! 23:29:47 <spnda> Just thought if I could possible just get the new package info after uploading, see if the unique-id differs, and then just delete the file and cancel the publish 23:30:17 <spnda> ah yes that works 23:30:19 <TrueBrain> "An error occurred (ResourceNotReadyException) when calling the Invoke operation (reached max retries: 4): Resources for the function are being restored." 23:30:26 <TrueBrain> wtf AWS, that is not .. what I expected :P 23:35:30 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:36:03 <TrueBrain> right, fixed BaNaNaS-staging for real now :) 23:37:16 <spnda> and I finally just pushed my updating command for my cli 23:37:20 <spnda> time for my first release, I guess 23:39:28 <TrueBrain> hmm, we have no saveload chunk for "random globals" 23:41:48 <spnda> haha look at the tags https://bananas.staging.openttd.org/package/newgrf/5343524c 23:42:18 <TrueBrain> bugs go to the issue tracker 23:44:05 <spnda> is that really a bug? 23:44:11 <spnda> I think I just gave it a list of empty strings 23:44:23 <spnda> but not sure 23:44:25 <TrueBrain> I think it should not allow empty strings, yes :) 23:45:23 <spnda> I think it was more a bug of my application converting ",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Test" to " Test" (or similar) 23:45:31 <spnda> so consequently I've fixed that 23:45:38 <TrueBrain> still, the API should not allow such nonsense :P 23:48:55 <TrueBrain> I cannot believe the biggest trouble I have with my gist is to find a place to store 2 values :P 23:49:51 <TrueBrain> I guess in Save_MAPS 23:49:56 <spnda> Does bananas have an icon? 23:50:10 <TrueBrain> another question I don't even know how to answer :D 23:50:21 <TrueBrain> we really should fix those mind-read machines :P 23:50:33 <TrueBrain> what kind of icon are you referring to? :) 23:51:37 <spnda> Just any, really. 23:51:42 <spnda> Thinking about an icon for my bananas-cli 23:51:50 <TrueBrain> application icon, okay that already helps 23:51:59 <TrueBrain> you could also mean does it support icons for NewGRFs or favicons, or :P 23:52:16 <TrueBrain> we use the OpenTTD icon for everything nowedays, so no, nothing specific for BaNaNaS 23:52:34 <spnda> oh crap, what license am I gonna use for this.... 23:52:38 <spnda> thinking of just GPL v3 23:52:57 <spnda> or MIT 23:59:36 *** paulus[m] has joined #openttd