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Log for #openttd on 8th August 2021:
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03:26:24  <Gustavo6046> Back
03:26:50  <Gustavo6046> Also, how about being able to plant trees diagonally? Since that's the shape of most local authorities (by the very nature of capped Voronoi floodfilling) anyway.
03:34:18  <Gustavo6046> Also, do hotels make more people if you feed them food and alcohol?
03:34:20  <Gustavo6046> Hang on
03:34:37  <Gustavo6046> Hotels, making more people if you give them alcohol?... I mean...
03:34:45  <Gustavo6046> Ehh, I'll just not think too hard about it. Game logic! :D
03:34:54  <Gustavo6046> (if it did happen)
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06:03:23  <LordAro> Gustavo6046: you should be able to fill diagonally by holding ctrl
06:03:31  <LordAro> most fill operations work like that
06:09:12  <Gustavo6046> LordAro: I am aware, but foresting does not include that feature
06:09:49  <Gustavo6046> Maybe it's just a different fill operation implementation for some reason
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06:56:57  <LordAro> Gustavo6046: mm, feels like an issue that it doesn't do that
06:58:06  <Gustavo6046> LordAro: i think it's because it acts on whole squares
06:58:15  <Gustavo6046> the other filling operations (like terrain ones) operate on corners
06:58:58  <LordAro> i'm sure you can do diagonal for demolision
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07:24:33  <andythenorth> yo
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08:35:44  <peter1138> oy
08:36:07  <peter1138> Yesterday was okay, today is ... wet.
08:39:08  <Eddi|zuHause> some people might think wet is good
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09:32:16  <andythenorth> such rain
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12:02:56  <TrueBrain> in case anyone fancies reading a rant ^^
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13:00:47  <peter1138> ?
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16:24:35  <andythenorth> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/337701432230805505/873964652021837904/unknown.png
16:24:36  <andythenorth> FML
16:25:33  <TrueBrain> lot nicer than yesterdays
16:26:20  <andythenorth> yeah, but all this metadata crap
16:26:27  <andythenorth> is potentially making it worse
16:26:36  <andythenorth> does it look like the goal is please ALL industries?
16:26:43  <andythenorth> cos that's not the goal :|
16:26:53  * andythenorth goes it throw out metadata crap
16:27:35  <TrueBrain> so if I understand you correctly, you want that the player satisfies some industries, but not all
16:27:44  <TrueBrain> I am still missing what the amount of a single industry does, how it influences it
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16:27:56  <TrueBrain> can I have 20 power plants in 1 town, and nothing else
16:27:59  <TrueBrain> is that okay?
16:28:22  <andythenorth> it's 'fine'
16:28:29  <andythenorth> but you might only need 4
16:28:36  <andythenorth> depends on population and crap
16:28:41  <andythenorth> I think I have the wrong metadata
16:28:47  <andythenorth> the missing part of the story is 'why?'
16:28:57  <TrueBrain> for me it is: what does it influence?
16:29:43  <TrueBrain> Power Plant: contributes 4% to living standard
16:30:02  * andythenorth adjusting
16:30:25  <TrueBrain> dunno, I am not sure what you want to do mechanic wise
16:31:08  <andythenorth> pleasing e.g. 1 industry gives x% of standard of living
16:31:09  <glx> I still thinks it's a GS job
16:31:22  <andythenorth> if it is, please explain how
16:31:40  <andythenorth> I proposed doing this in GS and I was explained computer science
16:31:44  <TrueBrain> I think it is a rather irrelevant discussion who should be in charge; rather what you want, and how to get there :D
16:31:51  <glx> oh and "satsify" ;)
16:32:11  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: so you do need to do like 3 different types of industries to get 100%?
16:32:16  <andythenorth> oof satsify
16:32:23  <andythenorth> TrueBrain depends on population I think
16:32:26  <andythenorth> this needs testing
16:32:36  <andythenorth> I might have bikeshedded words enough
16:32:50  <andythenorth> satisfy, like a sastuma
16:32:52  <glx> but if you manage to handle that in newgrf it's good
16:32:55  <TrueBrain> if you don't know how you want the mechanics to be, it is hard to make words for it :)
16:32:57  <andythenorth> but not a satsaphone
16:33:04  <andythenorth> or a satsellite
16:33:18  <TrueBrain> so yeah, first try out some forms of mechanics, and make words about it after :P
16:33:21  <andythenorth> well yes, but I've found that design works the opposite
16:33:31  <andythenorth> if the words can't make sense, it's not a valid mechanic
16:33:39  <andythenorth> anyway onwards :D
16:33:42  <TrueBrain> its a chicken/egg problem :P
16:33:44  <glx> or it's a newgrd spec :)
16:33:53  <andythenorth> truegrf
16:34:22  <glx> just hide important info in small lines of your description
16:34:29  <andythenorth> I was going to do like arbitrary 'living standard points'
16:34:37  <andythenorth> then each industry might do say 4 points
16:34:45  <andythenorth> and the number of points needed increases with population
16:34:52  <TrueBrain> that is what a lot of games do
16:34:55  <andythenorth> but points seems more confusing than %
16:34:58  <TrueBrain> so that will make sense to a lot of people
16:35:02  <andythenorth> maybe points are fine
16:35:14  <andythenorth> % is unitless, which is appealing
16:35:22  <andythenorth> but harder to explain the actual maths
16:35:32  <TrueBrain> 2TallTyler is trying the same approach, in a way .. you are both trying to add additional resources to a game that doesn't facilitate it :)
16:35:41  <andythenorth> and the % from each industry would annoyingly change as population increases
16:35:45  <glx> points or % are fine, as long as it's clear how a small change in satisfied industries affects it
16:36:01  <andythenorth> we are also both trying to control town growth from grf
16:36:14  <andythenorth> which is only possibly by over-riding every single town building and adding a callback to it
16:36:15  <andythenorth> lol
16:36:21  <andythenorth> I have to do that for all base set buildings next
16:36:26  <andythenorth> I am hoping I can automate it somehow
16:36:27  <TrueBrain> Town has 2 / 4 satisfactory points; cannot grow further
16:36:34  <TrueBrain> Power Plant: contributing 2 points
16:36:37  <andythenorth> QoL points
16:36:38  <glx> yeah and grf are not intended for town growth control
16:36:46  <andythenorth> well it was specced
16:36:50  <andythenorth> then it was deleted because GS
16:36:54  <glx> you can end up fighting with GS
16:37:23  <TrueBrain> and put on each industry why they are or aren't contributing points
16:37:27  <andythenorth> yes
16:37:31  <TrueBrain> Power Plant isn't receiving coal, and as such not contributing points
16:37:32  <andythenorth> ok let's try points
16:37:37  <TrueBrain> that would make total sense to me, honestly
16:37:41  <TrueBrain> better than % indeed
16:37:52  <TrueBrain> as I understand if the 2 / 4 becomes 4 / 6, because the town grew bigger
16:37:59  <TrueBrain> I wouldn't understand 100% going to 60% :P
16:38:11  <glx> indeed
16:38:33  <andythenorth> "x of y"
16:39:00  <TrueBrain> "Town has 2 out of 4 points needed to grow" :P
16:39:16  <glx> like noise thing for airports
16:39:17  <TrueBrain> that looks weird
16:39:34  <TrueBrain> "Town has 2 out of 4 QoL points; growing halted"
16:39:38  <TrueBrain> also weird, but meh, you figure it out :P :P
16:41:10  <andythenorth> :D
16:41:11  <andythenorth> yes
16:41:47  <andythenorth> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/337701432230805505/873969221623746590/unknown.png
16:42:08  <andythenorth> "Earn standard-of-living points by satisfying local tertiary industries'
16:42:15  <andythenorth> how about I just call it "gems" and be done with it
16:42:24  <andythenorth> "Earn 4 gems for delivering beer"
16:43:12  <TrueBrain> Looks a lot better, points
16:43:32  <TrueBrain> But yeah, you need to name this resource :)
16:44:02  <TrueBrain> Or, make it overly complex, and make it 2/4 food, 1/1 beer, etc :p
16:44:05  <andythenorth> gems
16:44:06  <andythenorth> silver
16:44:07  <andythenorth> XP
16:44:09  <andythenorth> QOL
16:44:13  <andythenorth> gold
16:44:15  <andythenorth> manna
16:44:16  <andythenorth> essence
16:44:21  <andythenorth> happiness
16:44:28  <TrueBrain> Growpoints
16:44:37  <andythenorth> growpoints could be a winner
16:44:41  <andythenorth> happipoints
16:44:48  <andythenorth> satispoints
16:44:50  <TrueBrain> Happiness
16:44:53  <andythenorth> satsipoints
17:01:58  <glx> after looking at steam forums, I wonder how achievements could work for an open source game, anyone could just modify the source to unlock them
17:02:25  <Rubidium> just add one achievement... hacking ;)
17:02:47  <Rubidium> only way to unlock it... by modifying the source
17:04:19  <michi_cc> In this sense they don't work for closed-source games either, for almost any game that allows code mods, there are mods to enable/get all achievements.
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17:14:57  <Timberwolf> Stanley Parable had an achievement where the method to gain it changed every time someone uncovered it, iirc.
17:15:23  <Timberwolf> Which involved doing weird things like changing values in config files using a text editor.
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18:35:57  <Samu> I miss this game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLjKjNp5N_Q
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20:09:55  <Samu> I am finalizing migration of my ais' aircraft code to the new code structure
20:10:26  <Samu> now I'm comparing the performance of old vs new
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20:21:57  <Samu> old on the left, new on the right: https://i.imgur.com/RxO3GfE.png
20:24:17  <Samu> the old code was WrightAI based with heavy modifications
20:24:37  <Samu> it was becoming a big mess
20:24:48  <Samu> all in a single file
20:25:28  <Samu> the new code is actually LuDi's structure, based on how he had it for his road vehicles
20:26:55  <Samu> split into several classes
20:27:24  <Samu> each route is manageable and structured
20:27:30  <Samu> unlike what I had
20:28:13  <Samu> i had to rebuild lists over lists over lists based on each aircraft orders
20:28:28  <Samu> and that's where the cpu spikes were originating from
20:35:24  <Samu> ultimately, I will attempt to get rid of WrightAI code alltogether, but I still rely on some functions in there
20:36:05  <Samu> i may migrate some functions to Utils
20:36:27  <Samu> undecided how to clean up this yet
20:38:00  <Samu> there are still some peculiar features of the old code that I can't migrate too well to the new code
20:39:31  <Gustavo6046> back!
20:39:49  <Gustavo6046> LordAro: oh
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21:37:55  <andythenorth> Standard Of Living -> Sol -> Peruvian currency -> derived from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidus_(coin)
21:37:58  * andythenorth lost in wiki hole
21:38:34  <Gustavo6046> lol
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