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00:00:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Hevlikn commented on issue #9791: [Bug]: Sawmill acceptance limitations https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9791 00:03:38 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 00:14:15 *** Ttech has quit IRC 00:22:39 *** Ttech has joined #openttd 00:34:51 *** Hobbyboy has quit IRC 00:36:09 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 00:37:13 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 00:37:46 *** Feuersalamander has joined #openttd 00:37:47 *** peter1138 has quit IRC 00:38:03 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd 00:38:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138 00:38:37 *** Hobbyboy has joined #openttd 00:38:39 *** grossing has quit IRC 01:12:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #9791: [Bug]: Sawmill acceptance limitations https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9791 01:13:48 <supermop_Home> should I draw the last two tropic offices next, even though the base sprites are not bad? or the vertical tube building? or the HQs? 01:15:38 *** guru3 has joined #openttd 01:16:09 *** wiscii has quit IRC 01:16:29 *** berndj has quit IRC 01:16:32 *** berndj has joined #openttd 01:16:47 *** wiscii has joined #openttd 01:18:40 *** gnu_jj_ has quit IRC 01:19:45 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 01:21:30 *** guru3_ has quit IRC 01:22:34 <supermop_Home> is the most salient feature of the vertical tube building that it's: A) Round, A')Not just round but specifically a cylinder, B)Weird looking in general, or C) that it has an unusual expressed structure, in an Archigram sort of way (with unusual contructio 01:22:45 <supermop_Home> construction stages 01:23:41 <supermop_Home> I'd say A is sort of important, but that it is mostly B and C 01:24:32 <supermop_Home> as its really the first (only?) post 1994/5 building in the game, so it originally functions as a "wow now you are in the future" signifier 01:25:33 <supermop_Home> and the weird hanging structure seems to be a nod to Archigram, but also Foster and Rogers - a sort of specifically British idea of futurism 01:26:13 <supermop_Home> I love the sentiment behind it, but man do I hate that sprite 01:30:14 <supermop_Home> the problem with any fun and playful building in the base set is that it generally gets built ad naseum 01:31:40 <supermop_Home> You could say, redesign it to just be a more normal but round building - that way it will look different, but not crazy. 01:32:25 <supermop_Home> but a city full of boring plain cylindrical buildings will still look stupid without any of the fun of it being crazy 01:33:52 <supermop_Home> probably the best course of action is just drawing it has a pretty boring early 2000s rectangular building, but that seems to defy the spirit of being a base set 01:49:36 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:05:16 *** reeeco has joined #openttd 02:05:43 *** urdh_ has joined #openttd 02:07:32 *** Elouin2 has joined #openttd 02:08:54 *** Rubidium_ has joined #openttd 02:08:55 *** Mek has joined #openttd 02:09:17 *** dih has joined #openttd 02:09:23 *** 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has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** ioangogo has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** shedidthedog[m] has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** philip[m]1 has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** natalie[m] has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** magdalena[m] has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** linda[m] has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** karoline[m] has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** joey[m]1 has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** hylshols7qui[m] has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** Heiki[m] has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** einar[m] has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** CornsMcGowan[m] has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** cjmonagle[m] has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** citronbleuv[m] has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** cacheerror[m] has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** amal[m]1 has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** Westie has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** Cursarion has joined #openttd 02:19:35 *** coulomb.oftc.net sets mode: +o peter1138 02:20:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v peter1138 02:39:45 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:07:51 <Gustavo6046> <supermop_Home> is the most salient feature of the vertical tube building that it's: A) Round [...] 03:07:56 <Gustavo6046> Ah yes, tubes are round 03:07:59 <Gustavo6046> :D 03:08:06 <Gustavo6046> sorry, it just sounds kinda funny out of context 03:08:27 <Gustavo6046> Also, reiterating a question from earlier that I don't think got answered 03:08:29 <Gustavo6046> <Gustavo6046> What AIs are compatible with both industry replacement and 2cc vehicle NewGRFs? 03:33:40 *** glx has quit IRC 03:46:54 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 03:47:10 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 03:52:59 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 03:52:59 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 05:05:20 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046 07:16:48 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:29:44 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 08:50:27 * andythenorth might be about to discover log O(n) or something 08:51:11 <andythenorth> if I build a linkgraph of p edges between n nodes 08:51:12 * peter1138 needs to discover healthy living agin 08:51:19 <andythenorth> in January? 08:51:31 <peter1138> Yes. 08:51:36 <andythenorth> healthy living in January involves eating carefully and doing a few stretches 08:52:06 <andythenorth> maybe a walk to the shop 08:53:09 <andythenorth> anyway I need some kind of graph traversing thing 08:53:14 <peter1138> Unfortunately the last time I lost any weight was because I was cycling 250km every week and counting calories... And I can't do that again... 08:54:50 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 08:55:09 <andythenorth> because life reasons? 08:58:02 <peter1138> I no longer have a commute that forces me to go out whatever the weather, and I went a bit mental with the counting. 08:59:32 <andythenorth> oh yeah working at home 08:59:36 <andythenorth> not all gravy 08:59:53 <andythenorth> I used to do enough walking meetings that I'd wear out shoes 09:00:03 <andythenorth> now I don't even wear shoes 09:00:15 <andythenorth> I haven't left my kitchen table for 20 months 09:02:39 <andythenorth> hmm 09:03:10 <andythenorth> I need to learn about how GS blocks I think 09:04:02 <andythenorth> looks like I can't run housekeeping functions on every tick because other functions will take many more ticks to complete 09:04:06 <andythenorth> e.g. pathfinding 09:12:36 * andythenorth must to grown up work 09:12:44 <andythenorth> planting pylons on the map in a train game is not that 09:12:47 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:14:02 *** toktik has quit IRC 09:25:16 *** Smedles_ has joined #openttd 09:25:55 *** Smedles has quit IRC 09:33:10 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 09:55:15 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 11:22:01 *** toktik has joined #openttd 11:31:49 *** zzy2357[m] has joined #openttd 11:34:10 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 12:42:03 *** lobster has joined #openttd 12:45:31 *** lobstarooo has joined #openttd 12:51:56 *** lobster has quit IRC 12:52:03 *** lobstarooo is now known as lobster 13:05:37 *** lobster has quit IRC 13:18:58 *** toktik has quit IRC 13:19:13 *** toktik has joined #openttd 13:51:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 13:52:37 *** glx has joined #openttd 13:52:37 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 13:52:39 <andythenorth> meh 13:52:41 <andythenorth> "squirrel depth first search" 13:52:50 <andythenorth> just gets me a lot of google results about how squirrels find nuts 13:53:11 <andythenorth> I want to resolve if a graph connects all possible nodes 13:53:15 <andythenorth> undirected 13:53:28 <andythenorth> no max number of edges per node 13:53:36 <andythenorth> min number of edges is 1 13:54:13 <andythenorth> I have a naive approach which is start at one node, and build connections directly to all others 13:54:42 <andythenorth> another naive approach is to cycle through each node, and build 1 edge to the nearest unconnected node 13:54:57 <andythenorth> repeat until all nodes are connected 13:57:10 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 13:57:40 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 14:29:42 *** tokai has joined #openttd 14:29:42 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 14:31:08 <andythenorth> oh this is nice :) https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/graph-algorithms/9781492047674/ch04.html#minimum_weight_spanning_tree 14:31:43 <andythenorth> that page says that's the most appropriate graph approach for cable and utility networks :) 14:31:58 <andythenorth> so should work for connecting power stations to each 14:32:00 <andythenorth> other 14:36:30 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 14:40:44 <peter1138> Sometimes I wish I could have constructors as part of an interface... 14:41:17 <peter1138> Probably means I need to redesign... 14:45:43 <supermop_Home> how weird does the weird tube building need to be 14:50:05 <supermop_Home> I've spent the last 12 years wanting to make a metabolist inspired base set or town set, and here I am contemplating making one of the two metabolist inspired buildings in the game into something totally mundane 14:52:16 <reeeco> andythenorth: you could use google search opeator 'site:foo' .. if you have desired sites to search 14:52:30 *** reeeco is now known as wiscii 14:56:30 <peter1138> Meh, Activator.CreateInstance(type, args) definitely feels wrong. 14:56:43 <FLHerne> supermop_Home: Pretty weird, I think 14:56:49 <FLHerne> everyone loves the weird tube building 15:13:43 <supermop_Home> FLHerne is it most important that it be weird as in different than the other building around it, or different than the buildings that came before it? 15:14:51 <supermop_Home> and do people like this building? I honestly didn't know... despite loving the probably real life inspiration for it, I always disliked the sprite 15:15:50 <supermop_Home> especially in ogfx, the simon foster one is cute at least 15:17:34 *** esselfe has quit IRC 15:18:30 *** esselfe has joined #openttd 15:31:30 <FLHerne> supermop_Home: I remember seeing (on TT-Forums/Reddit) love expressed for the tubular building in particular 15:32:02 <FLHerne> probably mostly because it's unique, but it does look quite nice IMO 15:32:05 <supermop_Home> basically neither approach really fits 'hawaii'.. there are round buildings there but more like low-rise offices from the 60s-70s 15:33:29 <supermop_Home> and there are rounded sleek buildings from around 2000, but pretty much normal 2000s condos 15:34:54 <supermop_Home> there are a few buildings more spiritually close in structure, round and otherwise, from Japan and Europe in the 70s 15:36:09 <supermop_Home> and there are some neither tubular nor structurally weird buildings in Honolulu from the 80s and 90s that are unabashedly weird and futuristic in style 15:37:52 <supermop_Home> A 60s cylinder building from Hawaii - wrong era, wrong height, not weird enough: https://modtraveler.net/city/honolulu_655/listing/varsity-building/ 15:39:27 <supermop_Home> a 2000s round building from Hawaii - not a cylinder, tall, not weird enough?: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQsDQKemU0A6n0XITFuyGpuOTiqDsnNcSeOOcFyIni61a_ueAM3ulyxsmfCnGTFFMbEhS8&usqp=CAU 15:41:12 <supermop_Home> A metabolist era cylindrical building from Tokyo - wrong era, weird enough, too metabolist: https://muza-chan.net/aj/poze-weblog2/shizuoka-press-broadcasting-center-shimbashi.jpg 15:43:50 <supermop_Home> 60s-70s BMW building - probable inspiration for original sprite, actually is a suspended structure - wrong era, too distinctive: data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAoGCBUVExcVFRUYGBcZGiMdGhkaGyUjHRwfIx8jHBwaHRwkHy0kGiEoHRwgJDUkKCwuMjIyISE3PDcxOysxMjEBCwsLDw4PHBERHTMpISgxMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTEuMTExMf/AABEIAR4AsAMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAbAAACAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAEBQIDBgEHAP/EAEcQ 15:43:51 <supermop_Home> 4fAHFUNTkvGiRBckJWODk7LC0hb/xAAYAQADAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBP/EACgRAAICAgMAAAUEAwAAAAAAAAABAhEhMQMSQSIyUWGRBBNx8YHB4f/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8AztWGBF48bx87Ti5cwEUBVt538ZtecQp8YdUqU2Sm61AAdQMiDI0kMIvgnIcZTSadSmqqUZA6i6yrQSDJN4vOMoprZtJxXyoi3EVCyzReIubE2b3eQ5b46udXUAX7s+9pJsOem1ibRgXi2VpqtI03dy06gygQeUEEzIwPqZWpsB7ovaZnfzti1NPQmpGv9nsrTqFm7ZwFv+r0TzMFmIIsb74s4lxCn+jSCpPbGPJgxB5GN+eMk+bqNMiR0iw8Ywyy1GgKd2JcCTqEieYEWO3yxM1egph44jScxUpi 15:43:51 <supermop_Home> KpWpns6ZZird8GACAbwN73iZ3wRkhuFXYfxSq7KxqoiagpEqFJgHSAsEDnuAcJVcQdTKw5oax8d7QAP4jxxZn69V0NRtkMAssMoJJF/G/phSc05k6mInmT+U4tyiZtNbNvwn2ZpVNLLo0lZBlm1XsCvbDcX2wkzPDKtIH4kQkFqcQDM6ZaDIHgRffFP+YVBUp6ZXQoiJ9W64nm+MPoZNJ71RnJK/eidweY5WxDlF4LipRyiVHL1KglabQQe92iAL1ZpP8sBvUIJSZaLntFO4mFItI8PriVHNsqKW2Qkz5gWgCRt/e2Aspw6oYap3NVxIMkeH9ziXGKRanOTpPI5pcLqNTSqBTCsYUdpUe8lfgQyRBO5wdmfZ5kDGrUpgxZtDEWkxqkafkDOAzUlaVO7dl7sFid5kwTtPkMEpQd6gWq/Z 15:43:51 <supermop_Home> 3AtsOg59MGHJARNRWJLnexCsFEAHeDJn5YW0+NNSQKBKm+m4AhSB9TNr+OGuN38T/BL5YpfCvyDpWOktq02JIGkSR8pPM4AWubQTODuHZEuCKmtRpkQouZ2uQBvhlT4OiJ2tOpLJyK8+YJ5HpbFKF6MZSlVsTU+IVAFCsQB0/LB3Crq3cMobmCY8T0vhMinWVJmGj63OGuTqFKNRZ/1FJPM2OkdeZ/vdaFFheb4MlF+zq1JaPg2B2ALG58bDFPFuHUqZpGmSRUMGSI3veLYMznCsyKz1K9JmQ3JpFY+u3XbDPJ56iAq/otQ0wpJaz3mCrCeY73pg6Tbtsu0ZriVVFVYSNOnebnm19t9sWBwrS0C1iZA6kTEY0GvI1DoahUUm+nQynadgenLBOW/QqVwWWBu4eImdyOsc+WG+O1TKjyNP 15:43:51 <supermop_Home> ZokMi1aY0tBmxB5wDE774WcZyNCpLHM99iGhe/suiAgPdFptznBxw6MXLOU0G06dKoQXpqWeADo5EgDUZtsSRykYZ8NrQCiKNKKbBSIUEgAD5G2PLc2hR9B1jmCxKyOukjFuWzrKy95wAwm87ct+YOOi4rJwOMnhnoPtRVo1UVaigwSSupQQVB0g3vOowOUnCpfZjK1EYoTqJI/WXW8BokyDvjPtmKbrqAYG+5k+sRGCeBcSp0g5TUS4gzy8Ry54H1eS4KWrFmfytWlmOzZkLabETBHpM4uy5qES9mBMASAbb33/AO8G8SzFQ1RVhe8BEbi1uWIpFVYeoD/9SBzOw8TjGXEmjrhzOO8g7VNKgvJPh1/LFtVagp02FN31apGkjTDADezWI22xZlazUIZERrxOkahafum19+oxZxLir1dJ 15:43:51 *** supermop_Home has quit IRC 15:44:01 <LordAro> lol. 15:44:12 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 15:44:17 <LordAro> supermop_Home: well done 15:44:19 <supermop_Home> oops sorry 15:44:36 <supermop_Home> embarassing 15:44:58 <LordAro> s'alright, you were killed after 5 lines 15:45:18 <supermop_Home> haha well on my end it was like 100 15:45:56 <FLHerne> supermop_Home: The Tokyo one is vaguely similar to the other weird OTTD tower 15:46:11 <FLHerne> although the OTTD one has lots more blocks 15:47:01 <FLHerne> 60s one looks almost like a cylindrical version of the square OTTD 60s block 15:48:27 <FLHerne> supermop_Home: I think it's likely based at least in part on the Rotunda in Birmingham for i in range(len(digits - 1) 15:48:30 <FLHerne> er 15:48:33 <FLHerne> https://www.e-architect.com/images/jpgs/birmingham/birmingham_rotunda_wa271108.jpg 15:48:48 <supermop_Home> the one I tried to post was the bmw HQ, which I had heard was one of the things that inspired foster 15:48:51 <andythenorth> chances I can persuade anyone to add a minimum spanning tree graph solver to the core game? 15:49:15 <andythenorth> with parameters for edge weight e.g. 'penalise cities' etc 15:49:30 <supermop_Home> FLHerne that Birmingham building looks pretty conventional, apart from being round 15:50:25 <supermop_Home> the shizuoka tower is contemporaneous to the nakagin capsule tower, that the capsule tower in game is based on 15:52:43 <FLHerne> I doubt there's any real-world precedent for hanging a tower building from cables :p 15:52:56 <FLHerne> I guess Skylon is probably the closest thing 15:53:06 <supermop_Home> BMW headquarters! 15:53:22 <supermop_Home> its cylindrical units suspended from above 15:54:15 <supermop_Home> you certainly couldn't do it with only two cables like in the sprite... people on the bottom floor could run back and forth to get the whole tower swinging 15:54:28 <FLHerne> https://media01.stockfood.com/largepreviews/MjE4MjM0MjQ2NA==/70398144-Modern-corporate-building-BMW-Headquarters-in-Munich-Germany.jpg oh, I see 15:54:45 <FLHerne> it's not very apparent from the aerial views 15:54:57 <FLHerne> and that would be FUN! 15:55:26 <supermop_Home> unfortunately its not an animated building 15:55:44 <FLHerne> Skylon needle https://www.mediastorehouse.co.uk/p/164/dome-skylon-1951-597433.jpg 15:56:01 <FLHerne> Not really a building, but that tensegrity layout should be stable enough for one 15:56:11 <FLHerne> if you ignore practicality 15:59:04 <supermop_Home> it should have 3 or 4 columns instead of the 2 it does.. and some way to get into the building from the ground 15:59:45 <supermop_Home> I guess the sprite disappoints from an archigram style perspective because the tube itself is so plain 16:00:58 <supermop_Home> and those architects would have visually expressed the circulation too - stairs elevators, ductwork 16:01:50 <supermop_Home> i guess there is also the weirdness of looking at 2000 as the future 20+ years on 16:02:07 <supermop_Home> most architecture in the early 2000s was pretty boring 16:03:31 <supermop_Home> so now you are are playing the game era similar to the 70s-80s on the original game, with these wild futurist buildings 16:04:08 <supermop_Home> like 'here is the train i remember taking as a child, driving past this futurist setting' 16:10:32 <andythenorth> looks like people have written minimum spanning trees for NoAI https://www2.imm.dtu.dk/pubdb/edoc/imm6091.pdf 16:11:17 <andythenorth> oh there's more https://www.signaldelay.com/programming/2019/09/05/building-an-openttd-ai-part-1/ 16:14:22 <andythenorth> well this is all very interesting, but I am a terrible programmer :P 16:21:22 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 16:47:44 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:04:15 *** debdog has joined #openttd 17:12:37 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:24:20 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 17:34:13 *** Flygon has quit IRC 17:56:42 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:01:28 *** skrzyp has joined #openttd 18:49:15 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 18:51:34 *** gelignite has quit IRC 18:53:10 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:57:42 <andythenorth> so how would I start making a minimum spanning tree? 18:57:52 <TrueBrain> by planting some seeds 18:57:55 <andythenorth> thanks :) 18:58:02 <TrueBrain> you are very welcome 18:58:07 <andythenorth> not the answer I expected 18:58:17 <andythenorth> but in the same spirit as what I expected 18:58:27 <_dp_> andythenorth, prim n**3 18:59:17 <_dp_> https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/prims-algorithm-simple-implementation-for-adjacency-matrix-representation/ 18:59:30 <andythenorth> this suggests it's been done in NoAI https://www.signaldelay.com/programming/2019/09/05/building-an-openttd-ai-part-1/ 18:59:33 <andythenorth> but I can't find part 2 :P 19:00:01 <andythenorth> the implementation is not in part 1 19:00:51 <glx> doesn't seem to have a part 2 yet 19:01:39 <andythenorth> nope :) 19:01:53 <TrueBrain> maybe next year :) 19:02:16 <_dp_> part 1 links to a quite fast but complex algo for spanning tree 19:02:23 <andythenorth> some of the AIs might have this already 19:02:33 <andythenorth> this article mentions it https://www2.imm.dtu.dk/pubdb/edoc/imm6091.pdf 19:02:43 <andythenorth> maybe PathZilla 19:03:19 <andythenorth> https://code.google.com/archive/p/ottd-noai-pathzilla/ 19:04:47 <frosch123> https://gitlab.com/thexa4/sealink <- it links to that 19:04:58 <_dp_> why AIs do spanning tree though, makes no sense with openttd economy 19:07:34 <frosch123> andythenorth: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=38645 <- you are right, check the animation at the bottom 19:11:19 <_dp_> wow, PathZilla actually does delaunay triangulation 19:12:24 <frosch123> afaik all the town-road-network ais do delaunay 19:12:45 <frosch123> those fake ai/gs, which just build roads for the sake of building a public road network 19:14:21 <_dp_> nah, I checked CityConnector but it seems pretty simple 19:15:16 <_dp_> EMST doesn't even make that good of a public network 19:15:48 <andythenorth> totally unrelated, Zutty's forum avatar is from a video I was watching earlier :P 19:15:52 <andythenorth> 'my lovely horse' 19:16:05 <_dp_> MST makes sense if roads are made of gold xD 19:16:20 <andythenorth> I am digging through pathzilla trying to find the MST 19:16:26 <andythenorth> but it's not obvious in my search 19:16:32 <andythenorth> or the google code version is missing things 19:16:36 <andythenorth> lots of empty dirs 19:17:22 <_dp_> andythenorth, in archive it's just pathzilla/graph/impl 19:17:42 <andythenorth> bananas version has it all :) 19:17:43 <andythenorth> found it 19:18:23 <andythenorth> MST and others 19:18:38 <andythenorth> I have no idea whether MST is what I need, just suggested by googling 19:20:59 <_dp_> for electricity MST certainly makes more sense than for roads 19:21:02 <andythenorth> hmm MinimumSpanTree() doesn't seem to be called 19:21:47 * andythenorth was hoping to cargo-cult an implementation 19:30:49 <_dp_> andythenorth, why are you placing pylons btw, just for the eye-candy? 19:31:01 <_dp_> I though of doing power lines with tram type at some point xD 19:31:22 <andythenorth> mostly for the lolz 19:31:35 <andythenorth> seems like the kind of thing nobody has tried yet 19:31:48 <andythenorth> it's only just possible recently 19:31:59 <andythenorth> with your PR for objects, and the newgrf check 19:32:44 <andythenorth> kind of curious 19:32:50 <andythenorth> how slow are the in-game pathfinders? 19:33:20 <andythenorth> the GS road pathfinder takes months to connect two nearby towns 19:34:41 <_dp_> in-game pathfinder still can't route ships without buoys :p 19:40:16 <andythenorth> can we do something about selecting objects? 19:40:35 <andythenorth> not sure why the string matching fails 19:46:11 * andythenorth looks how GS detects grf industries 19:52:36 <andythenorth> oh maybe it doesn't 19:52:42 <andythenorth> maybe I was just lucky so far 20:11:31 <andythenorth> ok so GetIndustryID() returns the internal OpenTTD ID of the industry? 20:11:39 <andythenorth> not the grf-defined ID? 20:13:27 <frosch123> yes, do we need to scramble them to avoid any confusion? 20:14:26 <_dp_> pretty much everything id in GS is internal, otherwise it wouldn't work with multiple grfs 20:16:21 <andythenorth> for industry I can resolve this by fingerprinting on cargos 20:16:40 <andythenorth> but objects...there's nothing to fingerprint on? 20:17:33 <andythenorth> actually the fingerprinting is silly 20:18:38 <andythenorth> functions for grfid and industry-id-in-grf are not going to hurt anything 20:18:53 <andythenorth> except that I can't think of a name :P 20:19:00 <andythenorth> GetIndustryID is already taken 20:19:13 <andythenorth> optional params? 20:22:34 <frosch123> GSIndustry.GetNewGRFID could return a tuple of grfid+localid 20:22:44 <frosch123> no idea whether we can return tuples easily 20:22:52 <andythenorth> me neither 20:23:00 * andythenorth was looking at GetIndustryIDAtOffset in grf 20:23:34 *** Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium 20:24:31 <andythenorth> most things seem to return a single value 20:24:37 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 20:24:39 <andythenorth> but can that be an array? 20:26:37 <andythenorth> random browsing of nogo spec suggests that 'return one thing' is the prevailing approach 20:28:11 <Rubidium> why not return some object, that might be reused for other NewGRFIDs? 20:30:47 <andythenorth> GSGRFItem or something? 20:33:05 <nielsm> I am confused by people who confuse "not inefficient" for being the same as "optimized to the highest level possible, every last pixel of running distance squeezed out" 20:33:31 <nielsm> or maybe do not understand the concept of "good enough for most people" 20:34:34 <andythenorth> context? :) 20:34:54 <nielsm> "you must be out of your mind that you are not investing days to learn the art of constructing computers using pieces of railroad tracks and color light signals" 20:35:15 <nielsm> in response to people being happy users of path signals 20:41:05 <andythenorth> must be reddit? 20:41:15 <nielsm> JGR thread on tt-forums 20:43:06 <_dp_> nielsm, where did you find anyone calling them inefficient? 20:43:27 <_dp_> it 20:43:31 <_dp_> *in that thread 20:44:45 <nielsm> yeah I'm pulling a bit of a strawman here, but when I see someone arguing that the two_way_eol thing doesn't work with path signals that to me just screams "I don't understand anything less than hyper-optimized" 20:46:20 <_dp_> idk, for a signal discussion that thread seems relatively reasonable so far imo 20:46:53 <nielsm> the argument that path signals are bad because they don't allow making the same constructions as block signals are being abused for is completely missing the point that you can still build crash-free deadlock-free networks using only path signals 20:47:29 <frosch123> ah, i wondered when someone would complain that you cannot disable the signal gui. there was already some drama 15 years ago when it was added, so i was kind of surprised when noone noticed when that setting was gone 20:48:07 <FLHerne> You can, but I doubt you can make a self-regulating network with path signals 20:48:26 <FLHerne> not that that's essential to very many people 20:48:35 <nielsm> self-regulating networks is also well past "average player" territory 20:48:46 <FLHerne> but there are meaningful end goals that can be achieved only using block signals 20:49:18 <FLHerne> The only "average player" use of block signals I know of is the prio merge 20:49:51 <FLHerne> That's very useful even in my very unoptimised [or, rather, optimised for 'realism'] networks 20:59:21 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:12:37 <andythenorth> ok so maybe something like ScriptTile, but for GRFItem 21:13:44 <andythenorth> or extend GSNewGRF? 21:14:07 <andythenorth> GSNewGRF.GetItemID() 21:14:17 <andythenorth> GSNewGRF.GetGRFID() 21:14:55 <andythenorth> no, GSNewGRF.GetItemGRFID() is better 21:24:26 <andythenorth> how is GS extended even 21:26:45 <TrueBrain> w00p, loop support is done! 21:26:46 <TrueBrain> shocking :D 21:26:51 <TrueBrain> took only 150 lines of code 21:26:53 <TrueBrain> but what-ever 21:27:09 <andythenorth> how many of them were loops? 21:27:49 <andythenorth> while (loops >= done) { return "congrats" } 21:31:39 <andythenorth> hmm it's not trivial for GS to resolve generic grf items 21:31:42 <andythenorth> meh 21:34:36 <TrueBrain> okay .. 95% of the FIRS economy is online and kicking .. 21:34:48 <TrueBrain> I am missing industry:production_level .. that can't be hard to add :P 21:34:54 <TrueBrain> and ranges don't work yet 21:34:59 <TrueBrain> but that is for tomorrow :D 21:35:37 <andythenorth> hurrah 21:35:54 <supermop_Home> yay 21:36:14 *** Kitrana has joined #openttd 21:39:51 <TrueBrain> after that it is actual testing if it behaves as expected .. very curious about that :D 21:40:09 <TrueBrain> as it requires actual playtesting .. scary shit :P 21:40:15 <andythenorth> release it as FIRS 4.5.0 21:40:18 <andythenorth> see if anyone notices 21:40:24 <TrueBrain> haha 21:40:29 <TrueBrain> docks in the middle of the sea 21:40:31 <TrueBrain> I think they do :P 21:40:34 <TrueBrain> sorry, Bulk Terminals 21:40:44 <TrueBrain> but ... I should now also be able to use RPN to restrict the placement correctly 21:41:28 <andythenorth> \o/ 21:41:32 <andythenorth> RPN is the best RPN 21:41:43 <TrueBrain> it for sure solves a lot of problems :P 21:42:03 <TrueBrain> anyway, now zzz time :) 21:42:32 *** Kitrana1 has quit IRC 21:50:06 <andythenorth> if we do something like GSNewGRF.GetItemID(), it will need to accept a range of types as param, e.g. industry, tile, vehicle, object 21:54:32 <andythenorth> the alternative seems to be extend all the types, e.g. GSIndustryType, GSObjectType to have methods to get the grfid and the id of them item in the grf 21:55:12 <andythenorth> also the names seem to be impossible 21:55:18 <andythenorth> :D 22:03:25 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:05:38 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:15:36 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 22:23:43 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:31:41 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:53:14 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 23:15:26 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC