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00:00:56 <norbert79> good night 00:01:01 *** norbert79 [n=Norbi@3e44b5b1.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:03:33 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:11:36 *** Cipri [n=cipri@a47034.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 00:22:50 *** kujeger [n=kujeger@host-81-191-145-149.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:22:52 *** kujeger_II [n=kujeger@host-81-191-145-149.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 00:24:22 *** RichK67 [n=RichK67@194.164.100.143] has quit [] 00:25:20 *** Born_Acorn [n=bornacor@ACCA4282.ipt.aol.com] has quit [] 00:27:15 *** Hallo [n=me@c094.fem.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [" "] 01:04:12 *** Zahl [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-199-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:14:31 *** CobraA1 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:15:20 *** CobraA1 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 01:28:08 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd ["bye"] 01:33:02 *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp85-141-200-151.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:41:53 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:50:53 *** AciD [n=gni@unaffiliated/acid] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:51:42 *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Bye!"] 02:11:09 *** mgla [n=mgla@wikipedia/mgla] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:13:05 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B834CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 02:21:44 *** coppercore [n=copperco@dpc691922180.direcpc.com] has quit ["*.net *.split"] 02:24:20 *** tokai|ni [n=tokai@p54B83723.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:48:50 *** dp [n=dp@p54B2D1C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:52:39 *** AciD [n=gni@tehpwnz.org] has joined #openttd 03:09:08 *** dp-- [n=dp@p54B2D3A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:09:09 *** dp is now known as dp-- 03:21:51 *** Pipian [n=pipian@jacobi.stu.rpi.edu] has joined #openttd 03:42:52 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has quit ["Go on, get out. Last words are for fools who haven't said enough. - Karl Marx"] 04:19:02 *** Mek_ [i=marijn@82.75.184.247] has joined #openttd 04:24:50 *** AciD [n=gni@unaffiliated/acid] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:25:48 *** Mek [i=marijn@82.75.184.247] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:44:37 *** Mek [i=marijn@82.75.184.247] has joined #openttd 04:44:39 *** Mek_ [i=marijn@82.75.184.247] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:45:48 *** Jezral [n=projectj@nat.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:46:04 *** Jezral [n=projectj@nat.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd 05:06:03 *** DaleStan_ [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has joined #openttd 05:06:09 *** DaleStan [n=Dale@12-202-240-195.client.insightBB.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:16:16 <CIA-3> celestar * r4463 /trunk/ (ai/trolly/trolly.c newgrf.c settings_gui.c): -Codechange. Include vehicle.h directly instead of implicitly via station.h in a number of source files 05:33:17 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 05:35:28 *** Mek [i=marijn@82.75.184.247] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:41:32 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:53:39 *** Mek [i=marijn@82.75.184.247] has joined #openttd 05:54:04 <Naksu> http://www.thedailywtf.com/forums/68624/ShowPost.aspx 05:59:13 <Naksu> ottd should have something like that 05:59:15 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 06:06:06 <peter1138> :( 06:07:34 <Naksu> there should be a school for writing bad code 06:09:02 <Naksu> since bad code will be written anyways, people should be told how to write it 06:09:21 <Naksu> like, if you're going to fail, at least fail with style 06:09:51 *** Xeryus|sleep is now known as XeryusTC 06:14:51 *** AciD [n=gni@tehpwnz.org] has joined #openttd 06:15:28 <XeryusTC> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24622 06:21:16 <Naksu> http://translator2.openttd.org/ makes my eyes bleed 06:22:19 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.stb.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 06:39:01 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:39:09 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:41:02 <Celestar> peter1138: you around? 06:42:17 <CIA-3> celestar * r4464 /trunk/waypoint.c: -Codechange: Oops, forgot one file in last commit 06:44:25 <peter1138> yes 06:44:51 <MiHaMiX> Naksu: _ 06:45:04 <MiHaMiX> Naksu: what's your problem with translator2? 06:45:47 <Celestar> peter1138: RFC for diff (DCC) 06:48:25 <Celestar> I like WT2, apart from the percent bars :P 06:49:44 <peter1138> the huge bold text on the front screen is hard to read, though 06:50:19 <Celestar> and there is some problem with the menu bar on KHTML-based browsers. 06:50:36 <Naksu> MiHaMiX: well 06:50:42 <MiHaMiX> Celestar: menu is a 3-rd party code from dynarch.com 06:51:00 <Naksu> the text is all in italics 06:51:03 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: ok, i'll make the letters smaller 06:51:18 <Celestar> MiHaMiX: tell them that they suck :P 06:51:28 <Naksu> but then again 06:51:31 <Celestar> menu only works if main window is scrolled fully up. 06:51:41 <Naksu> i'm not one of those people who have to use the translator 06:51:46 <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/124 <= this bug report sucks 06:52:18 <Naksu> haha 06:53:37 <Naksu> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/60 06:53:42 <Naksu> "Patch to be proofread" 06:55:48 <Celestar> well, it IS a patch to be proofread 06:57:05 <Naksu> well, it's not really the type of change that warrants a patch :) 06:57:39 <Naksu> or a proofreading 06:57:49 <Celestar> well I guess I'll apply it anyways :) 06:57:51 <MiHaMiX> Naksu: is it better now? :) 06:58:10 <Naksu> yes 06:58:19 <MiHaMiX> Naksu: and now? :) 06:58:34 <Naksu> even better 06:58:36 <MiHaMiX> ok. 06:58:47 <MiHaMiX> Naksu: thanks for the suggestions 06:58:50 <Celestar> MUCH better :) 06:59:24 <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/121 <= any ideas? 07:00:37 <Naksu> Celestar: of course, your proofreading process might involve actually checking if the issue exists 07:00:47 <Celestar> it does 07:00:50 <Naksu> instead of just proofreading the patch 07:01:06 <Celestar> er what? 07:01:31 <peter1138> er 07:01:46 <peter1138> you know we're also using the tracker as a place to contribute user patches... 07:01:51 <peter1138> and that is a user patch... 07:01:55 <Naksu> yes 07:01:58 <Naksu> i know 07:02:35 <Naksu> but i assumed that proofreading and confirming the issue are two separate stages 07:02:59 <Celestar> the "issue" is that no one needs the variable in question 07:06:57 <Celestar> er is it me or is there something broken with aircraft in general :o 07:10:48 <Naksu> depends. is the aircraft landing finite state machine thingy in there? 07:13:51 <Celestar> hm .. 07:13:59 <Celestar> only in this one savegame there's a problem :o 07:14:05 *** jong [n=jong@flipflip.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 07:14:24 <Celestar> peter1138: what about my diff now? 07:16:49 <Naksu> Celestar: maybe the savegame is corrupted? 07:18:33 <Celestar> yes 07:19:28 <Naksu> i wonder if there's a prize i can win for stating the obvious 07:19:36 <Celestar> ^^ 07:20:15 <peter1138> Celestar: looks ok 07:20:39 <CIA-3> celestar * r4465 /trunk/aircraft_cmd.c: -Codechange (FS#60): Remove a variable no one really needs. (DaleStan) 07:20:47 <peter1138> Celestar: http://195.112.37.102/ottd/grfst9.diff < dynamic 07:21:15 <Celestar> not found :( 07:21:23 <peter1138> i have an idea 07:21:30 <peter1138> i shall upload the file o_O 07:21:39 <peter1138> there 07:21:47 <Celestar> ah :) 07:22:36 <Celestar> looks nice :) 07:23:04 <Celestar> if (i < 256) <= please replace magic number by enum or something :) 07:23:28 <Naksu> since i'm already in "stating the obvious" business i might go as far as to note that perhaps there's some validity in the bug report and there's a bug for you to fix in the error handling 07:24:19 <Celestar> peter1138: in AllocateSpecToStation, why not move the whole "if i < 256" block into the for loop? 07:25:15 <Celestar> peter1138: and final question, if a game is abandoned, will all the Specs be removed? 07:26:03 <DaleStan> So, I'm curious, Naksu. What would you have called FS#60? 07:26:24 <peter1138> 1) because when i'd need special code to handle the case of the first allocation 07:26:37 <Celestar> DaleStan: hi :) 07:26:40 <peter1138> 2) no. afaik there is no provision for unloading game data 07:26:53 <Celestar> peter1138: 1) good reason 07:27:08 <Celestar> peter1138: 2) so we leak memory when starting a new game? 07:27:46 <peter1138> looks like it :( 07:28:17 <DaleStan> Celestar: I'd completely forgotten about that patch. I guess trackers exist for a reason. 07:28:23 <Celestar> DaleStan: so do I 07:28:49 <peter1138> Celestar: do we clear roadstops? 07:28:54 <peter1138> or are they pools... hmm 07:28:59 <Celestar> peter1138: I think all pools are cleared? 07:29:14 <Celestar> you could make those station specs pools :P 07:29:17 <peter1138> pools are, yes 07:29:47 <peter1138> oh, roadstops are pools. hmm. 07:29:57 <Celestar> we ought to have some *remove_block_proc in MemoryPool actually :S 07:31:15 <peter1138> so it could be a pool, but pools can't be dynamically sized... i'd have to either have a large block or use lots of individual blocks 07:31:27 <peter1138> using lots of individual blocks brings up the question of how to reference them 07:31:51 <Celestar> peter1138: maybe just a remove_block proc would be the cleanest alternative? 07:33:12 *** Aankhen`` [n=pockled@203.101.12.215] has joined #openttd 07:34:32 <peter1138> hmm 07:34:37 <peter1138> well, off to work now 07:34:48 <Celestar> and should be easy to implement. 07:34:55 <Celestar> peter1138: you still didn't comment on my diff :P 07:37:34 *** Scia [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:37:46 <Naksu> DaleStan: no idea 07:45:26 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 07:48:41 *** mgla [n=mgla@wikipedia/mgla] has joined #openttd 07:50:26 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B834CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:50:48 *** Scia [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:51:05 *** Patrick`_ [n=pitt2@i-195-137-14-213.freedom2surf.net] has joined #openttd 08:03:00 <peter1138> Celestar: i did ... i said it looks ok ;p 08:03:46 <Celestar> that means "go" ?;) 08:04:14 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:04:19 <peter1138> well, does it work? ;p 08:04:22 <Celestar> hm .. Intel's Core Duo T2600 mobile CPU outperforms the Pentium XE 965 in every gaming benchmark. 08:04:26 <Celestar> yeah :P 08:04:29 <Celestar> it fixes the crash. 08:04:55 <Celestar> there will be some minor deviations in station ratings when loading old savegames (only if last vehicle was a ship), but I guess we can live with that. 08:06:18 *** Patrick` [n=pitt2@i-195-137-14-213.freedom2surf.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:06:27 <peter1138> not really a problem 08:07:03 <Celestar> ok :) 08:07:34 <Celestar> er .. 08:07:47 <Celestar> can you DCC me the diff? I somehow have overwritten it :P 08:10:11 <peter1138> sending 08:10:28 <Celestar> thanks 08:10:31 *** A1win [i=a1win@loota.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:14:01 *** Patrick`_ is now known as Patrick` 08:15:46 * peter1138 wonders if 16 specs is enough per station (and not worry about dynamic allocation) 08:16:44 <peter1138> hmm, well, 15 + the default 08:16:58 <peter1138> DaleStan would know 08:19:05 <DaleStan> peter1138: 16 "specs"? 08:20:04 <peter1138> spec = custom station 08:22:39 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd 08:23:02 <MeusH> hello 08:23:04 <MeusH> Darkvater: you may be interested in http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24117&highlight= 08:23:09 *** LordOfThePigs [n=WinNT@221.216.76.162] has joined #openttd 08:23:25 <LordOfThePigs> Hello! 08:23:29 <DaleStan> Patch can support up to 16 classes (14 + DFLT + WAYP) and 255 different station IDs (not including the default station type, I believe.) 08:23:34 <LordOfThePigs> Hi Celestar! 08:23:35 <MeusH> Hey Lord 08:23:41 <LordOfThePigs> Long time no see! ;) 08:23:47 <MeusH> Darkvater: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24551&start=20 take a look at this one, too 08:23:58 *** AciD [n=gni@unaffiliated/acid] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:24:01 <peter1138> DaleStan: yes 08:24:11 <DaleStan> Does that answer your question? 08:24:14 <peter1138> no :) 08:24:28 <LordOfThePigs> I have a question for C preprocessor abusers that certainly lurk here 08:24:30 <peter1138> i'm talking about the number of different custom stations you'd use per station 08:24:36 <LordOfThePigs> #define _(o,t) ((b ## t << 4) + b ## o) 08:24:42 <LordOfThePigs> what does the ## mean? 08:25:04 <LordOfThePigs> (I found that in the GRFCodec source, and it's puzzling me 08:25:12 *** WolfLaptop [n=wolf@213.196.14.254] has joined #openttd 08:25:12 <MiHaMiX> LordOfThePigs: concat strings probably? 08:25:32 <DaleStan> LordOfThePigs: it's the token-pasting operator. a ## b becomes ab. 08:25:56 <LordOfThePigs> ok 08:26:01 <LordOfThePigs> strange operator :D 08:26:35 <DaleStan> peter1138: I think the maximum number of station types per station is limited only by the number of tiles in the station. 08:26:55 <DaleStan> That is, it's the type is a property of the tile, not the station. 08:27:20 <DaleStan> *-it's 08:27:26 <LordOfThePigs> Is the comment on top of this (http://pastebin.com/666724) supposed to be ironic? 08:28:45 <LordOfThePigs> Oh, hehe, I just noticed something 08:28:50 <LordOfThePigs> lol 08:28:55 <DaleStan> LordOfThePigs: lines 29..33, I expect? 08:29:13 <LordOfThePigs> yeah 08:29:15 <LordOfThePigs> funny 08:29:30 <LordOfThePigs> I think that means I have my face to close to my screen 08:29:38 <peter1138> DaleStan: ok, that's a physical limit. what about in actual use? 08:32:08 *** tokai|mdlx [n=tokai@p54B8243C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:34:52 <DaleStan> peter1138: I don't think I've used more than four station types in any one station, but I don't play much with P:GS. With P:GS, I could see four quite easily. I really don't know if any reasonable person would exceed sixteen, though. 08:36:03 *** egladil [n=egladil@akvarium.csbnet.se] has joined #openttd 08:36:59 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 08:39:06 *** tokai|ni [n=tokai@p54B8243C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:40:28 <peter1138> DaleStan: thanks :) 08:44:32 <Celestar> peter1138: I think you should commit what you have now and then implement some cleanup proc for memory pools. it's like 15 lines. 08:44:52 <DaleStan> <LordOfThePigs> C preprocessor abusers that certainly lurk here <-- Who, me? Abuse the C preprocessor? Most certainly not! I mean, surely writing header files that #include themselves doesn't qualify as abuse, does it? :p 08:45:19 *** Jang- [n=Jango@mettab.demon.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:50:20 <CIA-3> celestar * r4466 /trunk/ (7 files): 08:50:20 <CIA-3> -Fix: (FS#71) Game no longer crashes when the last vehicle serving a station has been deleted. 08:50:20 <CIA-3> -Negative side effect: upon loading old games, stations whose last vehicle was a station have (temporarily) lower ratings. 08:50:20 <CIA-3> -Positive side effect: station.h no longer includes vehicle.h (breaks the station.h->vehicle.h->rail.h chain) 08:50:46 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B834CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:51:04 *** mgla [n=mgla@wikipedia/mgla] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:51:06 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B834CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:51:44 <peter1138> Celestar: 15? should just be a free(), heh 08:54:04 <Celestar> peter1138: well the current pools need a "NULL" added as proc :) 08:56:28 <Celestar> GNAH 08:56:35 <Celestar> rail.h rail_map.h station.h is much chaos 08:56:41 <stillunknown> is there a way to assign NULL or empty a variable in a struct trough a pointer? 08:57:31 <stillunknown> (something non zero that would imply the same as zero in a world were zero isn't used) 09:00:06 <tokai|mdlx> struct blah s; struct blah *p = &s; p->varfromstruct = NULL; 09:01:02 <stillunknown> i think i did that and it complains that i'm making an interger out of a pointer without a cast 09:01:23 <stillunknown> *integer 09:01:31 <tokai|mdlx> u must give the pointer the address of your struct.. so use & oparator. 09:05:33 * Celestar explodes 09:05:50 *** kujeger_II [n=kujeger@host-81-191-145-149.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:06:35 *** kujeger_II [n=kujeger@host-81-191-145-149.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 09:06:51 <Naksu> Celestar, the neighbourhood terrorist 09:06:59 * stillunknown has never used DCC, so my firewall didn't accept that 09:07:30 <stillunknown> invalid lvalue in unary &, that's a new one :-) 09:07:47 <TSC> register variable? 09:08:17 <Celestar> well 09:08:29 <Celestar> our header files are more than evil 09:08:56 <stillunknown> decleration of a pointer which i hope to use to assign some variables as NULL, but being a newbie i don't know what is wrong :-) 09:09:30 <Naksu> hmm 09:09:32 <tokai|mdlx> stillunknown: http://tokai.binaryriot.org/test.c <- this definitfly works ;) 09:09:43 <tokai|mdlx> maybe it hels you to understand your problem. 09:09:47 <tokai|mdlx> +p 09:10:23 <Celestar> .oO(header files should NOT include other header files) 09:10:47 <Naksu> Celestar, writing powerful code isn't evil :) 09:10:50 <TSC> That's a bit strict 09:11:01 <Celestar> TSC: at least not on such large a scale :S 09:11:01 <Naksu> as long as it's maintainable 09:11:10 <Celestar> it is NOT mailtainable at the moment 09:11:20 <TSC> I think that's true (: 09:11:34 <Naksu> well 09:11:40 <tokai|mdlx> Celestar: well that doesnt hurt if the header is safe to reuse multiple times :) #ifndef HEADER_H #define HEADER_H .. do stuff ... #endif /* HEADER_H */ 09:11:43 <peter1138> argh 09:11:58 <Naksu> at least it works :) 09:12:00 <peter1138> vs 2003 won't mass comment lines of text in asp :( 09:12:07 <peter1138> and asp doesn't have a block comment 09:12:23 <Celestar> tokai|mdlx: even then. 09:12:37 <Celestar> includes in header files should be kept minimal 09:12:45 <peter1138> Celestar: fancy going through and remove every single header from a header? 09:12:53 <peter1138> and then adding where needed to the c files 09:13:00 <peter1138> and preferably grouping common headers 09:13:07 <tokai|mdlx> celestar: sure.. but sometimes u need typedefs etc. in the headers, so no way around. 09:13:09 <Celestar> peter1138: that doesn't work. because of the damn static inlines all over the place. 09:13:18 <Naksu> how about 09:13:36 <Celestar> peter1138: I'm thinking of grouping all the typedefs into a single file. 09:14:05 <Naksu> checking which headers are actually used, and merging groups of headers that are not actually used alone? :) 09:15:14 *** prout [n=WinNT@61.149.215.68] has joined #openttd 09:15:18 <prout> hi again 09:15:29 *** LordOfThePigs [n=WinNT@221.216.76.162] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:15:32 <Celestar> yay. 09:15:38 *** prout is now known as LordOfThePigs 09:15:44 <Celestar> rail_gui.h includes rail_map.h via waypoint.h 09:16:10 <LordOfThePigs> Dalestan: you seem quite familiar with grfcodec 09:16:29 <LordOfThePigs> what is the byte order of the 16 bit numbers in PCX files? 09:16:30 <stillunknown> @tokau|mdlx: thanks for the example, any clue on how to deal with pointer linked structs such as Vehicles? 09:16:52 <LordOfThePigs> Celestar: What are you doing? 09:17:13 <Celestar> LordOfThePigs: I'm taking a big knife cutting through the dependency hell that is our code. 09:17:33 <Celestar> I'm not overly successful in doing so :S 09:18:31 <tokai|mdlx> stillunknown: dunno how vehicles are done in openttd... i only looked to the parts which failed under morphos ;) but i guess it's a linked list and there are macros available to traverse/ use them. 09:19:02 * stillunknown will bypass the problem for the moment 09:20:25 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 09:20:40 * peter1138 sighs 09:20:45 <peter1138> i wish i had this week off too 09:21:04 <peter1138> i need to arrange time off that doesn't match with my missus' 09:21:16 <Naksu> haha 09:21:17 <peter1138> then she'll be at work and i can sit with ottd all day ;p 09:21:28 <peter1138> heh, ottd widow 09:21:32 <TSC> Pretend to get the dates mixed up 09:21:41 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B8121D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:21:44 <Celestar> BAAH 09:22:03 <Naksu> maybe you could teach her to code and have her sniff glue until she enjoys it 09:22:15 <Naksu> then you can spend some "quality time" coding ottd together 09:23:34 <LordOfThePigs> lol 09:23:53 <Celestar> wee! 09:24:04 <Celestar> removing rail_map.h from depot.h causes npf.c to not compile 09:24:04 <Celestar> I love this 09:24:16 *** KUDr_wrk [n=KUDr@pcsousek.fit.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 09:24:30 <LordOfThePigs> sounds like funny work 09:25:26 <Celestar> BAH 09:25:42 <Celestar> 90% of all files include rail_map.h and road_map.h via depot.h 09:26:06 <peter1138> heh 09:26:17 <peter1138> so npf.c needs rail_map.h 09:26:31 <peter1138> explicit dependencies are good 09:26:39 <Celestar> yes, 09:26:43 <Celestar> I'm just adding them 09:27:07 <Celestar> include rail_map.h in openttd.h kills sprite.h 09:28:02 <Celestar> BAH 09:28:10 <Naksu> hahaha 09:28:28 <Celestar> WHO wrote this? :o 09:29:04 <Celestar> ok I have collapsed the code. 09:29:12 <TSC> Try svn blame 09:29:35 <Celestar> In file included from sprite.h:6, 09:29:35 <Celestar> from engine.h:9, 09:29:35 <Celestar> from player.h:8, 09:29:35 <Celestar> from rail.h:10, 09:29:35 <Celestar> from rail_map.h:8, 09:29:37 <Celestar> from openttd.c:13: 09:30:27 <Celestar> and VARDEF is about the most idiotic thing I have seen 09:31:11 *** WolfLaptop [n=wolf@213.196.14.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:31:40 <peter1138> yes 09:31:45 <Naksu> indeed 09:31:48 <Naksu> svn blame ftw 09:31:53 <Celestar> vici@galadriel:[/home/vici/openttd/trunk]> grep include *.h | wc -l 09:31:53 <Celestar> 155 09:36:23 <Naksu> svn blame svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk/rail_map.h or something :) 09:38:54 <Celestar> this is big-time suckage :S 09:39:22 <LordOfThePigs> suckage ? 09:41:25 <Celestar> "it sucks" 09:41:34 *** tokai|mdlx [n=tokai@p54B8243C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:41:38 <Celestar> /home/vici/openttd/trunk/network_server.c:1231: undefined reference to `IsFrontEngine' 09:41:41 <Celestar> wee :S 09:41:47 <Naksu> :D 09:42:00 *** tokai|ni [n=tokai@p54B8243C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:44:09 <Naksu> btw 09:44:23 *** dp [n=dp@p54B2CFB8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:44:41 <Naksu> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/WhoWorksOnWhat#Ship_Fixes was "finished" 2 years ago, is there a point in having a mention of it in the wiki? 09:45:19 <Naksu> it would seem that there wont be any more development on that patch :) 09:47:58 <Naksu> and isn't the new map array merged into trunk yet? 09:47:59 <LordOfThePigs> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/WhoWorksOnWhat#Subsidiaries_and_Cooperation <--- funny, I didn't even know I was there 09:48:09 <LordOfThePigs> ^^ 09:48:18 *** tokai|mdlx [n=tokai@p54B80E8A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:49:32 <stillunknown> Naksu: from what i know the new map array will not be merged into trunk 09:49:37 <LordOfThePigs> By the way, how is the map accessors rewrite process going? 09:50:03 <Naksu> that's weird 09:50:11 <Celestar> LordOfThePigs: doing progress 09:50:17 <Celestar> 90% of map accesses are gone 09:50:17 <Naksu> i've been playing >512x>512 games for a while now :) 09:50:54 <Celestar> does someone have access to the crap they call MSVC6? 09:51:04 <Naksu> at home i think i do 09:51:13 <Naksu> i at least had it at some point 09:52:22 <Naksu> LordOfThePigs: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=11942 apparently 'tis you who started it 09:52:46 <Celestar> peter1138: got a sec? 09:53:40 *** mgla [n=mgla@wikipedia/mgla] has joined #openttd 09:54:23 <LordOfThePigs> Naksu: yeah, I know about that (obviously :D ), I just didn't know it was on the wiki 09:54:40 <Naksu> the wiki knows all 09:54:59 <Naksu> apparently new ai is on hold until new map array thingy is done 09:56:45 <TL|Away> Naksu: talking about out-dated pages... let me clean it up a bit 09:56:46 *** dp-- [n=dp@p54B2D1C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:56:47 *** dp is now known as dp-- 09:57:08 <Celestar> ok. 09:57:14 <Celestar> WHY do we have vehicle_gui.h ? 09:57:59 <TL|Away> Naksu: reload 09:58:32 <peter1138> Celestar: a sec? yes 09:59:48 <Celestar> dcc 10:02:05 <Naksu> LordOfThePigs: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php?title=MapRewriteProgress 10:02:10 <Naksu> apparently they're done 10:03:10 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 10:03:25 <peter1138> including openttd.h in sprite.h? 10:03:36 <Celestar> peter1138: that's the point I'm currently still working on :) 10:03:42 <peter1138> looks like you're adding more than removing ;p 10:03:55 <Celestar> yes, because most of the stuff was implicitly included 10:04:01 <Celestar> via 2, 3 or more nested includes. 10:04:20 <Celestar> SpriteID is defined in openttd.h, not sprite.h 10:04:26 <peter1138> better to add openttd.h to everything that uses sprite.h 10:04:54 <Celestar> true 10:05:20 <Celestar> that's what I'm just doing :) 10:05:29 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B8121D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:05:47 <Celestar> peter1138: I'm only 100% that the code will not work on MSVC6 after this diff :) 10:05:56 <peter1138> hmm 10:06:03 <peter1138> moving accessors back to depot.c 10:06:16 <peter1138> /* Water is stubborn, it stores the directions in a different order. */ 10:06:28 <Celestar> ^^ 10:06:36 <peter1138> that should be in a _map file? 10:07:27 <Celestar> yes. 10:07:35 <Celestar> but that's nothing to do with the head file. 10:07:44 <Celestar> water_map.h already has such an accessor 10:09:07 <peter1138> hmm 10:11:25 <Celestar> so you think move ALL the header includes out of the headers 10:11:32 <Celestar> in put them in c files no matter what? 10:13:20 <Celestar> bbl food 10:13:25 <peter1138> yeah 10:15:34 <Naksu> well if there's a need for a header to always include another header then the headers should be merged imo 10:20:14 <Patrick`> not true 10:20:30 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B8004B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:22:12 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:24:18 <Celestar> I'm rather unsure about this. 10:24:44 <Naksu> Celestar: you can always leave them there 10:24:52 <Naksu> start a wiki page or something about it 10:24:59 <Naksu> and delegate :) 10:26:26 <Celestar> maybe... 10:26:35 <Celestar> we should make a "requries" field in the header files? 10:31:09 *** Cyberjunkie [i=cyberjun@221.128.186.50] has joined #openttd 10:31:11 <Naksu> maybe someone could start a map of the dependency hell 10:31:14 <Cyberjunkie> :O 10:31:19 <Cyberjunkie> such a big room :D 10:32:30 <Cyberjunkie> could someone tell me if there's ashortcut key for chat :o 10:36:44 <Naksu> yes 10:36:52 <Naksu> it's capslock+delete+f8 10:37:44 <Cyberjunkie> ;| 10:38:07 <Cyberjunkie> no seriously.. do i have to go do say "blahblahblah 10:38:25 <Cyberjunkie> cant i just type t blahblahblah 10:39:38 <Naksu> yeah, you can 10:39:50 <Naksu> cant remember the key tho 10:40:04 <Cyberjunkie> ;o 10:40:39 <Celestar> neither can I 10:40:44 <Celestar> should be on the wiki somehwere? 10:40:48 <Celestar> either ENTER or "t" 10:41:22 <Cyberjunkie> god 10:41:23 <Cyberjunkie> ITS ENTER 10:41:31 <Cyberjunkie> lol i just started my own server 10:41:38 <Cyberjunkie> and started pressing everything :D 10:41:49 <Cyberjunkie> TY :D 10:42:07 *** LordOfThePigs [n=WinNT@61.149.215.68] has quit ["-=SysReset 2.53=-"] 10:42:32 *** tokai|mdlx [n=tokai@p54B80E8A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:44:27 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176116132.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:49:20 <Celestar> bah 10:49:27 <Celestar> I have a pathfinder assertion. 11:07:06 <hylje> oh my 11:08:23 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 11:08:35 <black_Nightmare> hey 11:08:49 <peter1138> so i need to add a cleanup facilty to the pools? 11:08:51 <peter1138> hmm 11:09:23 <Darkvater> ello 11:09:33 <KUDr_wrk> ello my master 11:09:36 <Celestar> heya Darkvater 11:09:37 <peter1138> hello oh lord vater 11:09:42 <hylje> :o 11:09:46 <Darkvater> whee, my following has grown :D 11:09:47 <Celestar> peter1138: as I said. it should be easy :) 11:09:58 * Darkvater adds peter1138 to his list of the faithful 11:10:20 <Celestar> Darkvater: there was something I wanted to talk to you about. 11:10:21 <KUDr_wrk> Darkvater: you dominate the world 11:10:22 <Darkvater> you know what I was thinking about? 1. rewriting Queue.c into CPP and perhaps using the STL for that 11:10:24 <Celestar> (but what) 11:10:25 <Darkvater> and 11:10:25 *** Spoco [n=Spoco@dsl-083-102-071-182.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has joined #openttd 11:10:31 <Celestar> STL? 11:10:34 <Darkvater> 2. add an List object (linked list) 11:10:39 <Darkvater> STandard Template Library 11:11:14 <Celestar> Darkvater: do you what I'm just busy doing? ;) 11:12:19 <Darkvater> damn I went to bed at 5AM and got up at 9 :( 11:12:30 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:12:31 <Darkvater> my whole day is fucked up 11:12:33 <Celestar> yuck 11:12:58 <Brianetta> Taken onmore than I should? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24613 11:13:21 *** WolfLaptop [n=wolf@213.196.14.254] has joined #openttd 11:13:21 <Darkvater> 10:50 < CIA-3> -Negative side effect: upon loading old games, stations whose last vehicle was a station have (temporarily) lower ratings. 11:13:27 <Darkvater> does this make any sense to anyone? 11:13:57 <Brianetta> Nope. 11:14:03 <Brianetta> That doesn't parse. 11:14:21 <hylje> yes 11:14:39 <Celestar> Darkvater: :P 11:14:50 <Darkvater> I mean sounds nifty 11:14:59 <Darkvater> teleporting stations? 11:15:07 <Celestar> ER 11:15:12 <Celestar> s/station/ship 11:15:27 <hylje> moving stations 11:15:27 <Darkvater> ah 11:15:32 <Darkvater> understandable typo o_O 11:15:38 <Celestar> O_o 11:15:40 <Patrick`> a station who's last vehicle was a station ... 11:15:41 <Patrick`> what? 11:15:43 <hylje> common typo 11:15:51 <Celestar> the keys are right like next to each other 11:15:52 <Celestar> :P 11:15:55 <hylje> the letters are like next to each other 11:16:00 <hylje> ! 11:16:01 <Cipri> (C) bash.org ;) 11:16:02 <Celestar> lol 11:16:11 <Celestar> kind of 11:16:28 <hylje> we just did some deri vative work 11:16:31 <Celestar> ok copying a file via NFS gives me a load of 6 11:16:38 <Darkvater> so what ya wanna talk about? 11:16:38 <hylje> damn spacebar 11:16:48 <Celestar> I can't quite remember :P 11:17:01 <Darkvater> no 11:17:10 <Celestar> apart from the fact that I'm busy clean ing up dependencies and need your opinion. 11:17:40 <Darkvater> I think pink is good 11:17:45 <Celestar> Darkvater: suppose I have a header file foo.h which needs bar.h. should foo.h include bar.h directly, or should all sources files that include foo.h include bar.h? 11:17:49 <hylje> spacebar owns 11:18:56 <Darkvater> good question. I think seperating it can cause troubles where you only include bar.h and it complains about things 11:19:25 <Darkvater> I see no problem in foo.h including bar.h. It is needed anyways and double includes are handled with #ifdefs in the header files themselves 11:20:47 <Celestar> and cause the HELL we're in now, basically? 11:21:29 <Naksu> it's hardly a hell now is it 11:21:36 <Naksu> i have a solution 11:21:37 <Darkvater> ? 11:21:50 <Darkvater> I don't see a difference between EACH time doing ineclude far; inclue boo 11:21:51 <Darkvater> and 11:21:58 <Celestar> it IS hell. 11:21:58 <Darkvater> include far;....<far.h> include boo; 11:22:12 <Naksu> have one header with all other headers included 11:22:15 <Naksu> and then include that 11:22:19 <Celestar> yeah 11:22:28 <KUDr_wrk> good idea 11:22:31 <Celestar> and each time you touch one header file, you recompile the who fucking binary. 11:22:35 <Celestar> whole* 11:22:42 <Celestar> that's not really the idea 11:22:51 <Naksu> well 11:22:55 <Darkvater> eh you still do it even if not including it in include 11:23:04 <Darkvater> it doesn't make a difference 11:23:16 <peter1138> you'd have to recompile all the object files, heh 11:23:49 <Celestar> the current situation sucks. we needa remedy it. 11:23:52 <Celestar> suggesitions? 11:23:53 <Naksu> does compiling ottd really take that long? 11:24:04 <KUDr_wrk> you guys should use precompiled headers - it takes seconds to compile whole ottd then 11:24:33 <Darkvater> precompiled headers were a bitch 11:25:12 <peter1138> hmm, CleanPool() 11:25:16 <Celestar> "were"? 11:25:19 <peter1138> but that deals with blocks. hmm. 11:25:39 <Celestar> ~.../// Pointer to a function that is called after a new block is added 11:25:40 <Celestar> ~...MemoryPoolNewBlock *new_block_proc; 11:25:41 <Darkvater> were because their support was removed 11:25:43 <Darkvater> (from MSVC) 11:25:49 <Celestar> this is where you need to add something peter :) 11:26:03 <peter1138> yes, i know that 11:26:12 <Celestar> and then CleanPool needs to cycle all the elemntes somewhere :( 11:26:23 <Celestar> well no wait 11:26:31 *** Cheery [i=Henri@a81-197-60-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 11:26:31 <Naksu> anyways 11:26:39 <Celestar> the Destructor function should cycle all the elements in the block. 11:26:49 <Celestar> just like new_block_proc 11:26:50 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has joined #openttd 11:26:59 <KUDr_wrk> <Darkvater> were because their support was removed - at some newer MSVC than 2005 ? 11:26:59 <Celestar> AddBlockToPool also works with blocks 11:27:05 *** joed [n=James@CPE-143-238-6-167.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:27:07 <Naksu> make a map or a chart of all the dependencies of files, what the files are currently including and what's really required 11:27:14 <peter1138> true. i'll steal from that, heh 11:27:49 <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: I never used 2005, it was removed in 2003 so if you upgrade the solution to 2005 it is also disabled there 11:28:08 <Darkvater> Naksu: that's what already happens in 'DEPS =>' of make 11:28:20 <Naksu> ah 11:28:20 <KUDr_wrk> aha, so removed from ottd 11:28:20 <Darkvater> which takes a FUCKING long time btw, sometimes even longer than compiling the damn game 11:28:36 <Darkvater> anyone seen egladil around? 11:28:48 <Naksu> Darkvater: which is why you run it now and make a wiki page about it? :D 11:29:08 <Darkvater> pffft 11:29:24 <Naksu> it's not like ottd takes the same amount of time as X or kde does to compile 11:29:32 <peter1138> it takes a fair while for me 11:29:42 <peter1138> i wouldn't want to recompile everything every time 11:29:42 <Celestar> depends on the box. 11:29:49 <Darkvater> Celestar: I see you didn't add the fixoldgames code when doing last_vehicle_type 11:30:00 <Darkvater> eg checking for vehicle and adding type if it is a valid vehicle 11:30:18 <Celestar> Darkvater: I think it's not worth the effort of carrying around an obsolete variable. 11:30:44 <Naksu> assuming 'DEPS =>' gives you the real dependencies instead of what's blindly included i don't see what's the problem 11:30:50 <Darkvater> yeah perhaps you're right 11:30:59 <Naksu> just run it once and slap some includes to their respective .c's 11:31:58 * stillunknown recompiles ottd often, takes a few minutes 11:32:01 <Darkvater> oh KUDr_wrk btw if nobody commits stuff to YAPF then you don't need to sync so often ;) 11:32:57 <KUDr_wrk> Darkvater: does "don't need" mean "don't do it"? 11:33:19 <Naksu> that way you'll have achieved the maximum recompiling efficiency, there's no implicit includes and even celestar is happy 11:33:29 <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: well you can do it, but it's kinda pointless 11:33:29 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd ["bye"] 11:33:50 <peter1138> makes our versions go up fast too, heh 11:34:01 <Celestar> I have an NFS server that exports with "sync", and an NFS client that tries to mount with "async". Who wins? 11:34:19 <peter1138> Naksu: how should it know what is and what isn't actually needed? 11:34:30 <Darkvater> I do 11:34:36 <Naksu> i've no idea 11:34:58 <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/headclean.diff 11:35:00 <Naksu> you do realize i had not even heard of DEPS before :) 11:35:12 <Naksu> Celestar: 404 11:35:35 <Celestar> try again 11:35:50 <Darkvater> Celestar: did you see tron added the bridge branch for you to look at? 11:36:04 <Celestar> yes. 11:36:09 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:36:28 <Celestar> only that $BOSS doesn't want me to look at it at the present time 11:36:30 <Darkvater> just checking 11:36:38 <Darkvater> kick $BOSS 11:36:49 <Celestar> $BOSS pays me money 11:37:10 <Naksu> hmm 11:37:21 <Darkvater> peter1138: http://darkvater.homeip.net:8080/weblog_tomcat/app?component=rightpanel.random_link&page=Home&service=direct&sp=7 11:37:25 <Darkvater> hommage ;) 11:37:47 <Celestar> Darkvater: only the bridge branch doesn't compile for me :) 11:38:00 <Darkvater> Celestar: $BOSS keep paying money and you do something else :) 11:38:23 <Celestar> lol 11:38:40 <Naksu> someone needs to translate openttd into swedish chef 11:38:41 <peter1138> Darkvater: huh? 11:38:50 <Darkvater> peter1138: you have your own blog :P 11:38:53 <Darkvater> Peter's Hideout 11:38:58 <peter1138> i do? 11:39:07 *** joed [n=James@CPE-143-238-6-167.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit ["Client exiting"] 11:39:07 <peter1138> and webtranslator2? 11:39:54 <Naksu> http://www.google.com/intl/xx-bork/ even google exists in borkese 11:40:03 <Darkvater> that's a hommage to MiHaMiX :P 11:40:26 <peter1138> hmm 11:40:33 <Darkvater> yes I was bored 11:40:36 <peter1138> < confused 11:40:47 <Celestar> Darkvater: he wants me to check it or what? 11:41:05 <Darkvater> he said he added the branch for you and peter because you asked him to 11:41:16 <peter1138> well, i didn't, heh 11:41:19 <Darkvater> I just nformed you in case you missed it cause you weren't here at that time 11:41:24 <Celestar> I wasn't 11:41:28 <Celestar> I've just seen the branch 11:43:11 <Darkvater> dammit I wanna sleep but have to be around for at least another hour 11:44:16 <stillunknown> how late is it over there? 11:44:23 <Darkvater> 13:44 11:44:55 <stillunknown> strange time to sleep or do you work strange hours? 11:44:56 <peter1138> 7KB to add a lot of NULLs 11:45:12 <peter1138> Celestar: http://195.112.37.102/ottd/poolclean.diff 11:45:50 <Darkvater> stillunknown: see above. went to bed at 5AM and got up at 9AM 11:45:53 <Celestar> peter1138: reading 11:46:14 <Darkvater> original plan was to wake up at 10AM but in my half-sleep I managed to change the alarm on my clock :s 11:46:51 <Celestar> peter1138: you don't need end_item. use block_size_bits for that :) 11:47:13 <Celestar> but I think the general idea is clean. 11:47:18 <peter1138> Celestar: hmm, i thought it might be cleaner to do it in there, so the called function doesn't have to worry about it 11:47:48 <Celestar> well. your call ;) 11:49:48 <peter1138> and Darkvater's opinion? heh 11:51:05 <Celestar> < f0rd> you can't do loops in html can you 11:51:06 <Celestar> ^^ 11:51:06 <Darkvater> what's it do? 11:51:14 <Darkvater> custom cleanup callback function? 11:51:20 <peter1138> adds a handler for cleaning up... yes, that 11:51:44 <Darkvater> why would you need it? Isn't it all in the memorypool? 11:52:01 <Celestar> nope 11:52:02 <peter1138> in case you do strange things like allocate memory to a pool object 11:52:08 <Celestar> ^^ 11:53:03 <Darkvater> you are strange indeed 11:53:11 <Celestar> well. 11:53:13 <Darkvater> better ask TL|Away though if he agrees with this abuse of mpools 11:53:21 <Celestar> we WANT proper newgrf support. 11:53:23 <Celestar> :) 11:53:30 <Naksu> Darkvater: it's not abuse 11:53:38 <Naksu> it's "efficient usage" 11:53:53 <peter1138> well, i could start adding bits to the map array and use that instead... 11:54:09 *** dupier [i=id11@client-87-247-124-57.turbozone.lt] has joined #openttd 11:54:17 <peter1138> hmm, that would be horrible 11:54:29 <peter1138> would need to be updated on load 11:55:11 *** Qrrbrbirlbel [i=Q@p54A7E0B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:55:25 <Darkvater> although in general callbacks are cool 11:58:30 <Celestar> Darkvater: did Tron say what I'm supposed to do ? 11:58:49 <Darkvater> yes 11:59:07 <Darkvater> 17:30 <Tron> tell Celestar to hop around on one foot an cuckle like a chicken 11:59:17 <Darkvater> Celestar: no he said nothing :) 11:59:32 <peter1138> Darkvater: problem is my extra data in the station array is 3KB per station if it's not dynamic 12:00:02 <peter1138> and most of the time none of it will be used 12:00:19 <Darkvater> :O 12:00:23 <Darkvater> what's 3KB about it? 12:00:34 <Darkvater> that's a huge struct 12:00:39 <peter1138> 256 entries, heh 12:00:41 <Darkvater> 3096bytes 12:01:02 <Darkvater> 256 entries of? 12:01:10 <peter1138> 255 being the highest value of a custom station index 12:01:22 <Darkvater> ah 12:01:25 *** Jang- [n=Jango@mettab.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:01:25 <Naksu> 3k is nothing, really 12:01:32 <peter1138> 3kb *per station* 12:01:41 <peter1138> additional 12:01:47 <Naksu> and? 12:01:47 <Darkvater> can you use Queue.c? It has a hashmap thingie 12:01:49 <peter1138> currently it stands at 1kb 12:01:50 <Patrick`> meh 12:02:03 <Patrick`> biggest game I'ever seen anywhere had maybe 300 stations 12:02:04 <Naksu> make it optional :) 12:02:13 * Darkvater slaps Naksu 12:02:19 <Darkvater> do you want newstations support or not? 12:02:19 <Patrick`> and if the map is big enough to support that, then 900k is the least of your wories 12:02:22 <Patrick`> *worries 12:02:48 <Naksu> anyways 12:03:13 <Naksu> it's not like there's someone out there who'll have more than 1k stations 12:03:20 * Brianetta is prepared to donate 3k of RAM to the newstations cause 12:03:29 <stillunknown> option has the best of both worlds :-) 12:03:30 <Brianetta> per station 12:03:43 <Brianetta> stillunknown: It's complexity 12:03:45 <Naksu> and 3mb is nothing 12:03:56 <Naksu> compared to the map array 12:03:58 <peter1138> or i can do this pool block cleanup function and have the memory be dynamic 12:04:11 <peter1138> so it'll be 0kb without newstations 12:04:12 *** Spoco [n=Spoco@dsl-083-102-071-182.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has quit [] 12:04:14 <Brianetta> How much additional space does Patch use for this? 12:04:32 <Darkvater> Brianetta: they dont' have these problems. Max 256 stations always 12:04:37 *** spoco [n=spoco@dsl-083-102-071-139.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has joined #openttd 12:04:39 <Darkvater> so 3*256 max is not that much 12:04:41 <peter1138> and probably less than 64 bytes per station with newstations 12:05:20 <peter1138> hmm, as i understand it the patch way uses a single 256 entry lookup table 12:05:37 <Darkvater> yeah, patch has fixed arrays for all new features 12:05:42 <Brianetta> Patch sucks! (: 12:05:48 <peter1138> 256 different new stations sounds like a lot, but lots of them come in individual pieces 12:05:55 <Celestar> ok WHAT is the problem with dynamic allocation? 12:06:03 <Darkvater> not hard to imagine though. Go ahead and write a memorypool in assembly and interface with it :P 12:06:28 <Celestar> peter1138: is there any reason to limit it to 256? 12:06:28 <peter1138> Celestar: nothing, 'cept this memorypool modification 12:06:42 <Celestar> Darkvater: any reason against the memorypool modification? 12:06:43 <peter1138> Celestar: yes, that's the size of m4 12:07:02 <Celestar> peter1138: oh. 12:07:05 <Celestar> reason accepted :P 12:07:24 <Darkvater> Celestar: same thing for towns, vehicles, industries, etc. 12:07:27 <Darkvater> all hardcoded 12:07:30 <Naksu> m4? 12:07:31 <Darkvater> Celestar: no 12:07:36 <Darkvater> map4 12:07:53 <Celestar> so peter1138 then go for it ;) 12:09:22 <Celestar> well. there ARE some problems in the new bridge code left :P 12:09:35 <Brianetta> Naksu: m4 can only be changed once all the accessors you see in the SVN logs are completed. 12:10:26 <peter1138> Celestar: does it leave bits everywhere? 12:10:42 <peter1138> Celestar: if so, i know the fix for that 12:11:06 <Darkvater> bits.kill(); 12:11:37 *** RoySmeding [n=Roy@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 12:11:46 <peter1138> o_O 12:13:04 <Celestar> peter1138: what do you mean 12:13:25 <peter1138> what problems were you referring to? 12:14:48 *** Splatman1984 [n=mark@81-178-80-47.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 12:14:48 <Celestar> reversing trains on bridge for example 12:14:52 <peter1138> ah 12:14:59 <peter1138> hmm 12:15:14 <peter1138> not tried, but... shouldn't be much different to reversing in a tunnel? 12:16:14 <Patrick`> they should be identically equivalent 12:16:19 <Patrick`> *should* be 12:16:54 <Celestar> well. 12:16:55 <Celestar> theory 12:16:58 <peter1138> well, they're aren't currently, but the new bridge code should make that happen 12:17:03 <peter1138> -'re 12:17:15 <peter1138> has anyone else been testing the branch? 12:17:25 <Darkvater> how does the new bridge code work? 12:17:39 <Celestar> Darkvater: as I said, some problems exist. 12:17:46 <peter1138> apparently it doesn't :-) 12:17:51 <Darkvater> is it as you said a teleport lik tunnels just with visible trains? 12:17:53 <Celestar> Darkvater: reversing on bridges asserts. 12:18:08 <Celestar> bridge ramp over tunnel causes trains to crash 12:18:17 <Darkvater> peter1138: any progress on freetype? 12:18:32 <peter1138> not since getting utf8 support (mostly) working 12:18:47 <peter1138> i was wondering about using wide chars internally instead of processing utf8 12:18:52 <Darkvater> ah so utf8-2 is the last 12:19:04 <peter1138> yeah, i've fixed some things since then but nothing major 12:19:07 <Darkvater> hmm isn't utf8 a normal char? 12:19:17 <peter1138> yes 12:19:29 <Darkvater> using wide-chars would mean a LOT of rewrites 12:19:37 <Darkvater> checking every stringhandler 12:19:53 <Darkvater> although it would ease up on the PDA port ;) 12:20:23 <peter1138> it would require a bit more memory, but less cpu time 12:20:35 <peter1138> swings 'n' roundabouts 12:21:04 <peter1138> i tested it with freetype disabled, it works ok, except obviously the chars we don't have don't display 12:21:17 <Celestar> guys 12:21:24 <Celestar> how about working on tracker items for once? 12:21:34 <Naksu> what? 12:21:45 <Darkvater> those are boring :P 12:21:53 <Naksu> you assume people should do something useful instead of their pet projects? 12:22:15 <Naksu> which planet do you hail from? 12:22:36 <Celestar> well. 12:22:40 <Celestar> I'm working on tracker items 12:23:45 <Darkvater> oi, i'm going home to sleep :) 12:23:48 <Celestar> :P 12:23:50 <Celestar> work° 12:23:50 <peter1138> ta ra 12:23:52 <Celestar> work! 12:23:56 <Darkvater> sleep! 12:24:00 <Darkvater> bbiaf 12:25:21 <peter1138> MiHaMiX: is there some way of getting utf8 lang files out of WT2? and perhaps having a test language (greek/russian?) with utf8 input? 12:25:53 *** spoco is now known as Spoco 12:27:19 *** mgla [n=mgla@wikipedia/mgla] has quit [""Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett"] 12:28:10 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-174-212.vodafone-net.de] has joined #openttd 12:28:35 <Celestar> blathijs: you around? 12:29:25 <blathijs> Celestar: Yes 12:29:32 <Celestar> MiHaMiX: now that WT2 is in beta, will "we" work to improve flyspray a bit? 12:29:32 <blathijs> Just walked into my room :-) 12:29:49 <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/20 <= I'm having a hard time reproducing this. 12:30:15 <blathijs> lemme see 12:30:43 <blathijs> ah 12:30:51 <peter1138> i've had that 12:30:54 <blathijs> it's easy to reproduce here ;-) 12:31:01 <Celestar> gimme instructions 12:31:06 *** egladil [n=egladil@akvarium.csbnet.se] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:31:12 <blathijs> start a game, wait for autosave 12:31:13 <blathijs> tada 12:31:14 <peter1138> i think it depends on your distribution 12:31:20 <Celestar> (just compiling with DEBUG:=1) 12:31:29 <Celestar> blathijs: not having this problem whatsoever :( 12:31:29 <blathijs> no wait 12:31:35 <blathijs> start game when inside gdb 12:31:36 <peter1138> it works for me on debian, but it breaks with ubuntu 12:31:39 <blathijs> save the game 12:31:41 <blathijs> crash 12:31:49 <blathijs> peter1138: same hardware? 12:31:52 <peter1138> yes 12:32:05 <peter1138> (and debian/ubuntu are pretty similar, heh) 12:32:48 <Celestar> no problems here 12:33:00 <Celestar> gdb 6.3 12:33:07 <Celestar> gcc 4.0.2 12:33:46 <peter1138> blathijs: what happened to fs#13? 12:34:24 <blathijs> Forgot about, didn't have time for it? :-) 12:34:42 <peter1138> ah 12:34:46 <blathijs> I've been thinking about it, mainly about greatly simplifing the code at the cost of a little more memory usage 12:34:51 <peter1138> i see it has a clean up function 12:35:00 <peter1138> (i think) 12:35:19 <Celestar> so what about closing the tracker item then? 12:35:26 <blathijs> specifically, not trying to reduce the size of the memory pool, since that makes the code a lot more complex and not very smaller I expect... 12:35:35 <blathijs> Celestar: I'll get around to it sometime :-) 12:35:42 <Celestar> it's the press of a button 12:36:20 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/97 <= what have we decided about this? and what did you tell michi_cc about it? 12:37:37 <Celestar> Darkvater: RFC: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/32 12:37:39 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: it will never make problems when not fixed 12:37:54 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: only it would be cleaner code 12:38:00 <KUDr_wrk> if you do it 12:38:03 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: is there anything bad about cleaner code? 12:38:10 <KUDr_wrk> no 12:38:17 <KUDr_wrk> it is on you 12:38:24 <KUDr_wrk> to decide 12:38:25 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: then I'm for it. 12:38:29 <KUDr_wrk> ok 12:38:41 <Celestar> just, could you apply? I have no Win box here. 12:38:51 <Celestar> bah 12:38:55 <KUDr_wrk> and commit? 12:39:03 <Celestar> you have commit rights, no? 12:39:12 <KUDr_wrk> technically yes 12:39:26 <KUDr_wrk> but i play in my branch only 12:39:33 <Celestar> well ok 12:39:37 <KUDr_wrk> as nobody told otherwise... 12:40:11 <KUDr_wrk> so tell me and i can do that 12:40:17 <stillunknown> i think svn is ported to other platforms as well :-) 12:40:23 <Celestar> do it. 12:40:23 <MiHaMiX> Celestar: yes, of course. as soon as I receive the instructions from Darkvater 12:40:26 <KUDr_wrk> ok 12:40:35 <Celestar> MiHaMiX: which instructions would those be? 12:40:49 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: could you also assign the tracker item to you and close it? that'd be great. 12:41:06 <KUDr_wrk> hmm, i must make account 12:41:09 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: WAIT 12:41:36 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #openttd 12:41:42 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:41:46 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: ptrdiff_t doesn't work here. 12:41:58 <KUDr_wrk> where? 12:42:19 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #openttd 12:42:26 <Celestar> on gnu-linux-x86_64 12:42:39 <KUDr_wrk> then i will make it from home, where i have also linux 12:42:53 <Celestar> it would possibly need the inclusing of malloc.h 12:43:11 <KUDr_wrk> maybe 12:43:34 <Celestar> what's ptrdiff_t anyway. 12:43:38 <KUDr_wrk> but ptrdiff_t should be known on all platforms 12:43:44 <Celestar> I mean it's shorter than unsigned long. 12:43:47 *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:43:49 <KUDr_wrk> signed size_t 12:44:00 <KUDr_wrk> the same size as pointer 12:44:02 <MiHaMiX> Celestar: what to change, etc... 12:44:08 <KUDr_wrk> but signed integral 12:44:18 <MiHaMiX> Celestar: send your suggestions to Darkvater to speed up the process :) 12:44:33 <Celestar> ok 12:44:35 * Brianetta hunts bout in vain for chocolate 12:44:38 <Celestar> hm. 12:44:42 <Celestar> what is sizeof(int) :S 12:44:45 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-173-25.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 12:44:50 <Sacro> afternoon all 12:44:53 <KUDr_wrk> usually 4 12:44:57 <MeusH> hello Sacro 12:44:59 <KUDr_wrk> but linux64 8 12:45:04 <Celestar> ah! 12:45:06 <Celestar> that's why 12:45:06 * Brianetta starts a packet of custard creams instead 12:45:17 * MeusH eats a cup 12:46:42 <Celestar> ok one tracker item fewer to worry about 12:47:04 <Celestar> MiHaMiX: I can talk to you directly no? 12:47:26 <Brianetta> Is http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24613 something which should be Wikified? 12:47:51 <Sacro> hello MeusH :) 12:48:10 <Sacro> Brianetta: i'd wikify it 12:48:28 <KUDr_wrk> <Celestar> ok one tracker item fewer to worry about <-- i am confused 12:48:42 <MiHaMiX> Celestar: well, I'm leaving for a 3-day conference tomorrow, and I'm sure that I'll forget, so please, writ e mail to Darkvater and Cc to me 12:49:03 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: I just wish "we" would work more on tracker itme.s 12:49:06 <Celestar> items. 12:49:16 <Celestar> instead of having them hanging around for ages 12:49:26 <KUDr_wrk> so should i do it at evening, yes? 12:49:28 <Celestar> yes 12:49:32 <KUDr_wrk> ok 12:49:39 <Celestar> Brianetta: why do you need two ip2? 12:49:42 <Celestar> IPs* 12:49:59 <Brianetta> Celestar: LAN browse for games 12:50:02 <Patrick`> you can nultiplex ssh and https on 443, it's tricky but doable 12:50:07 <Patrick`> oh, bad guess 12:50:22 <Celestar> Brianetta: because browse only works on default port? 12:50:26 <Brianetta> Yes 12:50:30 <Celestar> ah 12:50:35 <Celestar> that makes sense then 12:51:38 <blathijs> Celestar: I can reproduce the saving thread bug on both my systems (debian unstable, one x86, one x86_64) 12:51:43 <Brianetta> It's not usually an issue with internet games because the master server is clever 12:52:20 <Patrick`> german, not the bloody german again 12:52:44 <peter1138> anyone able to test http://bugs.openttd.org/task/63 ? 12:53:28 <Patrick`> let me check 12:53:55 <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/45 <= comments? 12:54:25 <Patrick`> I don't have any music :/ 12:55:06 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-174-212.vodafone-net.de] has quit ["muss wech"] 12:55:16 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["And he disappears, like a fox, in the night."] 12:57:07 * peter1138 gets back to work 13:05:28 <MeusH> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/126 <-- one line fix, anyone wants to commit? 13:05:28 <MeusH> pleease 13:06:52 <Patrick`> assuming that patch works, I second it 13:06:58 <Patrick`> we're too temperate-centric 13:08:25 <MeusH> thanks for support 13:08:27 <MeusH> oh, by the way: 13:08:37 <MeusH> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/88 and http://bugs.openttd.org/task/114 are almost the same 13:10:10 <Celestar> does that patch work MeusH ? 13:10:21 *** qball [n=qball@ipd50a4125.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:10:46 <Brianetta> Patrick`: Temperate is the climate with the trains (: 13:11:41 <Patrick`> not true 13:11:50 <Patrick`> I think monorail on desert is the prettiest layout 13:11:55 <Noldo> Patrick`: and how does it show? 13:12:17 <Patrick`> Noldo: that that bug was permitted to survive for so long 13:12:39 <Patrick`> that only temperate forests were considered when someone came up with the idea of "planting" instead of "under construction" 13:12:46 <Patrick`> and just forgot everything but temperate 13:13:14 *** egladil [n=egladil@akvarium.csbnet.se] has joined #openttd 13:13:20 <Celestar> heya egladil 13:13:23 <Noldo> well, why are the "climates" so separate in the first place? 13:13:29 <Patrick`> blame microprose 13:13:30 <Celestar> ask CS 13:13:37 <egladil> hello 13:13:42 <Celestar> egladil: how are things? 13:14:05 <egladil> good. didn't break any legs or anything while i was skiing :) 13:14:15 <Celestar> good news that is 13:14:30 <glx> mhh http://bugs.openttd.org/task/88 may cause desyncs 13:14:55 <Celestar> glx: checking soon 13:15:03 <Noldo> I don't care why they were so separate in TTD, I want to know why it hasn't been changed 13:15:20 *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas 13:15:23 <Celestar> Noldo: because its deep in the map. 13:15:30 <Celestar> hey Belugas :) 13:16:07 <CIA-3> celestar * r4467 /trunk/industry_cmd.c: -Fix: New plantations now cause the correct ".. being planted .." news item (MeusH) 13:16:18 <Celestar> Noldo: and everywhere else in the code. 13:16:25 <Celestar> vehicles, for example. 13:17:23 <Noldo> Celestar: that reminds me about the level of modularity in the code I manage to write ;) 13:17:50 *** Born_Acorn [n=bornacor@ACCA4282.ipt.aol.com] has joined #openttd 13:18:08 <Celestar> Noldo: well, you don't have to deal with RE leftovers all day ;) 13:18:45 <Celestar> glx: you think that 88 might cause desyncs? 13:19:44 <peter1138> it won't 13:19:46 <Noldo> but it really makes ask one simple question "WHY?!" 13:19:47 <peter1138> but it doesn't work properly 13:20:03 <Celestar> I think convrail should have semaphores by default, and elrail light signals 13:20:20 <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/?getfile=139 <= what about dis? 13:20:34 <Patrick`> Celestar: how's the signal thing? 13:20:40 <Celestar> Patrick`: on hold. 13:20:41 <Patrick`> the patch on the forums has a nasty bug 13:20:42 <Celestar> I'm working 13:21:09 <Patrick`> post it in the forums, let someone do it? 13:21:33 <Born_Acorn> The Semaphores don't look very pretty. 13:22:34 <peter1138> Celestar: it breaks when you're editing existing signals 13:22:51 <Patrick`> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=14890&start=60 13:25:10 <Splatman1984> I want to add another button to the vehicle list is vehicle_gui.c where I want to be looking, if so what functions am I looking for, because nothing seems to be jumping out 13:25:32 <Patrick`> it's just frustrating because it's totally working apart from an unrelated bug that got fixed in a later version 13:25:49 <Celestar> back later 13:25:51 <Celestar> => work 13:25:54 <MeusH> thanks Celestar for commit 13:25:56 <MeusH> cu 13:26:07 <Celestar> egladil: you 100% sure about that NORETURN stuff? 13:27:47 <egladil> one can never be 100% sure 13:28:03 <egladil> but yes, i believe it should be declared as i said in the bug report 13:31:38 *** valhallasw [n=valhalla@dsl68-30.fastxdsl.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:32:15 *** valhallasw [n=valhalla@dsl68-30.fastxdsl.nl] has joined #openttd 13:34:22 *** Cyberjunkie [i=cyberjun@221.128.186.50] has left #openttd [] 13:34:28 <Celestar> egladil: explain? ;) 13:35:57 *** RoySmeding [n=Roy@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["kthxbye"] 13:36:37 <egladil> NORETURN is macro used to indicate that a function doesn't return, and for other compilers it is declared as such. so it is only logical to do the same for gcc, thus declaring it __attribute((noreturn)) 13:37:41 <Patrick`> I'm going to hell 13:37:46 <Patrick`> I tried to manually apply the patch 13:38:54 <Patrick`> yay, fail 13:43:03 *** Jang- [n=Jango@mettab.demon.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:44:28 <MeusH> hey 13:44:40 <MeusH> I've got a question about implementation of logical statements 13:44:59 <MeusH> is (a && b) { }; equal to: 13:45:30 <MeusH> s/is/is if 13:45:45 <MeusH> if (a) { if (b) { }}; 13:45:47 <MeusH> or 13:45:53 <MeusH> is (b && a) { }; 13:46:01 <peter1138> first 13:46:04 <MeusH> I mean, when first parameter fails, is second being checked? 13:46:06 <MeusH> oh 13:46:09 <MeusH> thanks peter1138 13:46:11 <MeusH> that's clever 13:47:13 <glx> MeusH: that's why you should test for NULL first 13:47:27 <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newstations! 13:47:31 <peter1138> Born_Acorn: lies 13:47:52 <MeusH> yes, that's right 13:47:53 <Born_Acorn> newstations! 13:47:55 <MeusH> thanks glx 13:47:58 <peter1138> Born_Acorn: lies 13:48:04 <Born_Acorn> newstations not lies! 13:48:04 <MeusH> I'm doing http://bugs.openttd.org/task/90 13:48:22 <MeusH> and it will be ready soon 13:48:35 <peter1138> ah 13:48:37 <MeusH> I just wanted it not to drain too much cpu 13:48:41 <peter1138> yeah 13:49:37 <glx> MeusH: you check rail type of electric engine tile? 13:50:05 <Born_Acorn> Perhaps the catenary on the trains are just gathering static electricity with the air and the rails, causing sparks. 13:50:06 <Born_Acorn> Yes. 13:50:09 <peter1138> HasPowerOnRail(v, railtype) 13:50:20 <peter1138> getting the railtype is a bitch though 13:50:32 <peter1138> cos it depends on tiletype 13:50:35 <peter1138> Born_Acorn: heh 13:54:01 <Patrick`> the terrain generator is seriously poor ... 13:54:13 <Patrick`> very low water, very flat should not make lake city 13:54:31 <Celestar> egladil: hows progress on the 32bpp front? 13:54:58 <MeusH> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/90 Done 13:55:14 <CIA-3> celestar * r4468 /trunk/stdafx.h: -Fix: (FS#45) correct declaration of NORETURN for gcc (egladil) 13:55:27 *** Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: guru3 13:55:27 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-174-212.vodafone-net.de] has joined #openttd 13:55:44 <peter1138> MeusH: problem: getrailtype is only valid for rail tiles 13:55:48 *** Netsplit over, joins: guru3 13:55:54 <peter1138> there are also level crossings and bridges to consider 13:56:02 <peter1138> (tunnels don't matter) 13:56:11 <peter1138> oh, and stations 13:56:13 <blathijs> and stations and depots 13:56:17 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:56:20 <peter1138> depots are rail tiles :) 13:56:22 <blathijs> hmmm depots are rail tiles I think 13:56:29 <Celestar> they are 13:57:05 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 13:57:12 <MeusH> (but there are no effects in depots) 13:57:17 <Celestar> that's why I have not yet implemented it. 13:57:20 <blathijs> MeusH: good point :-) 13:57:32 <MeusH> so, I should make it sensitive for stations and level crossings, too? 13:57:34 <egladil> [18 15:54 CEST] Celestar egladil: hows progress on the 32bpp front? <== same status as before i went skiing. haven't been doing any coding while i was gone :) 13:57:53 <peter1138> egladil: what, not stuck on a laptop in the evenings? 13:58:07 <Celestar> MeusH: RailType GetTileRailType(TileIndex tile, Trackdir trackdir) <= usen dis one. 13:58:36 <MeusH> okay 13:58:44 <MeusH> does vehicle consist its direction? 13:58:55 <MeusH> or is there any other way to grab trackdir data? 13:59:01 <Celestar> direction != trackdir. 13:59:27 <blathijs> MeusH: You have a direction and a track 13:59:45 <blathijs> v.dir or v.direction or something and v.u.rail.track IIRC 13:59:51 <blathijs> you can combine those to a trackdir 13:59:57 <blathijs> might also be a wrapper for that 14:00:00 <egladil> peter1138: nope. playing games (non-computer) with my friends, out playing in the snow (you never get to old for that :) ) and just sitting down doing nothing 14:00:27 <Celestar> GetVehicleTrackdir(const Vehicle *v) 14:00:31 <Celestar> what about this? 14:00:31 <MeusH> Trackdir GetVehicleTrackdir(const Vehicle* v); 14:00:34 <MeusH> ohh 14:00:36 <MeusH> yeah :) 14:00:50 <blathijs> yes, that wrapper :-) 14:01:13 <blathijs> wrappers make our lives easy :-) 14:01:19 <MeusH> indeed 14:02:49 *** Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: guru3 14:02:49 <glx> MeusH: //No smoke for electric vehicles <-- little typo in this comment :) 14:03:13 *** Netsplit over, joins: guru3 14:04:02 <blathijs> glx: it misses a space after //, but I don't see anything else? 14:04:16 <glx> smake and electric vehicle 14:04:23 <MeusH> thanks :D 14:04:23 <glx> *smoke 14:04:39 <Born_Acorn> Smoke isn't a typo, its an incorrect word! 14:05:13 <peter1138> well, if your electric vehicle smokes, you've got issues... 14:05:42 <Born_Acorn> Not for long 14:05:58 <Born_Acorn> The smoking in all public places ban applies to trains too. 14:06:02 <Born_Acorn> :p 14:07:35 <Celestar> lol 14:08:12 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 14:09:20 *** Morlark| [n=Sean@82-71-32-147.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:10:01 <MeusH> how about... if (GetEngine(engtype)->railtype == RAILTYPE_ELECTRIC && GetTileRailType(v->tile, GetVehicleTrackdir(v)) != RAILTYPE_ELECTRIC) 14:10:57 <Celestar> HasPowerOnRail ? 14:11:21 <Celestar> v->u.rail.railtype 14:12:45 <MeusH> if (GetEngine(engtype)->railtype == RAILTYPE_ELECTRIC && GetTileRailType(v->tile, GetVehicleTrackdir(v)) != RAILTYPE_ELECTRIC) 14:12:52 <MeusH> no 14:12:53 <MeusH> if (!HasPowerOnRail(u->u.rail.railtype, GetRailType(u->tile))) 14:13:09 <Celestar> why the "!" 14:13:20 <Celestar> no 14:13:21 <glx> to return 14:13:40 <MeusH> if it has no power, it will produce no sparks 14:13:51 <Celestar> if (!HasPowerOnRail(u->u.rail.railtype, GetTileRailType(v->tile, GetVehicleTrackdir(v)) ? 14:14:15 <MeusH> yes, yes 14:14:23 <MeusH> I just copied that from the code 14:14:25 <glx> v->u.rail.railtype 14:15:07 <KUDr_wrk> To uncover the 10.000 nodes mystery: each node is specified by a combination of TileIndex/Trackdir, not only TileIndex itself. So it can't cover 100x100 tiles area, but much less (like 30x30 tiles). I think that NPF works quite well for ships (at least my yapf type 1 has the same results, only they come bit faster). Type 2 seems to be better (can cover area like 50x50 tiles) since it uses different node model (TileIndex/ExitDir). But still the same 14:15:14 <KUDr_wrk> oops 14:15:22 <KUDr_wrk> wrong window 14:15:51 <Celestar> hm? 14:15:59 <MiHaMiX> KUDr_wrk: never mind, it is interesting :D 14:16:10 <KUDr_wrk> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/57 14:16:12 <Noldo> yeh 14:16:16 <KUDr_wrk> was for that 14:16:46 <Noldo> but aren't ships the ones with most performance problems on npf? 14:17:13 <Born_Acorn> ooh. nightlies are no longer folders in zips 14:17:19 <Born_Acorn> How handy 14:17:40 <KUDr_wrk> Noldo: not much - you can configure the speed/accuracy 14:18:01 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: hows the performance of the road pathfinder? 14:18:38 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: depends - short paths (1:3)/long paths (1/10) 14:18:50 <Celestar> ? 14:18:55 <KUDr_wrk> NPF/YAPF 14:18:56 <KUDr_wrk> aha 14:19:05 <KUDr_wrk> you mean NPF itself 14:19:06 <Celestar> 10 times better? 14:19:14 <Celestar> I mean YAPF:NPF 14:19:18 <KUDr_wrk> I have now 300 RVs 14:19:22 <KUDr_wrk> aha 14:19:25 <KUDr_wrk> then ok 14:19:26 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: how difficult is the map? 14:19:30 <KUDr_wrk> 1:3 ... 1:10 14:19:32 <Celestar> (for the pathfinder) 14:19:50 <KUDr_wrk> pf has no problem with roads 14:19:53 <Celestar> like you have a huge huge city with lots of 2x2 blocks. 14:19:58 <Celestar> (thus many many many loops) 14:20:04 <KUDr_wrk> unless you cover whole map with roads 14:20:13 <KUDr_wrk> and make 10000 crossings 14:20:41 <Celestar> well maybe not the whole map, but like a 100x100 tile area? 14:20:49 <KUDr_wrk> on my machine it solves one segment in ca 0.5 ... 1.0 us 14:21:02 <Celestar> hows performance YAPF:OPF? 14:21:08 <KUDr_wrk> so 100x100 crossings city 14:21:23 <KUDr_wrk> 10 ms 14:21:39 <Celestar> vici@galadriel:[/home/vici/mglet/branches/multiscalar/cdftest/data/fischer/dump]> free -m 14:21:40 <KUDr_wrk> i didn't measure OPF 14:21:42 <Celestar> total used free shared buffers cached 14:21:45 <Celestar> Mem: 2007 1991 15 0 0 1294 14:21:47 <Celestar> -/+ buffers/cache: 696 1310 14:21:48 <KUDr_wrk> i can try it 14:21:50 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: it'd be interesting :) 14:21:52 <Celestar> Swap: 4102 1352 2749 14:21:55 <Celestar> :S 14:22:25 <KUDr_wrk> OPF will be bit faster i guess 14:22:30 <Celestar> hm .. 14:22:34 <Celestar> how much and why? ;) 14:22:35 <KUDr_wrk> as it doesn't record the path 14:22:42 <KUDr_wrk> a bit 14:22:48 <KUDr_wrk> I will try it 14:22:58 <KUDr_wrk> and tell you 14:23:16 <Celestar> ^^ 14:24:21 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: but i can't assign any bug to me 14:24:34 <KUDr_wrk> looks that flyspray knows that i am not dev 14:24:36 *** wolf^ [i=wolf@pld-linux/wolf] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:24:43 *** Qrrbrbirlbel_ [i=Q@p54A7E0B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:24:44 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: maybe I can change that. 14:24:53 <KUDr_wrk> :) 14:25:26 <Celestar> MiHaMiX can I think :) 14:27:34 *** Morlark [n=Sean@82-71-32-147.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:28:10 <Celestar> whoha 14:28:14 <Celestar> try now? 14:28:40 <Celestar> MiHaMiX: 14:28:44 <MiHaMiX> Celestar: yes? 14:30:29 <Celestar> something looks weird with the User Groups 14:30:36 <MiHaMiX> Celestar: what? 14:30:40 <Celestar> KUDr appears now as the only Project Manager to me? 14:30:43 <Celestar> and there are no other groups. 14:31:37 <MiHaMiX> hihi :) 14:31:41 <MiHaMiX> yes, indeed :) 14:32:05 <Celestar> we need more groups :P 14:32:07 <MiHaMiX> Celestar: since from saturday WT2 also uses the sabe flyspray 14:32:29 <MiHaMiX> same 14:32:37 <MiHaMiX> Celestar: see the global groups 14:32:54 <Celestar> global groups?! 14:33:48 <MiHaMiX> Celestar: yes 14:34:00 <MiHaMiX> Celestar: admin toolbox -> User groups 14:34:22 <MeusH> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/90 <- Fixed the fix 14:34:54 <Celestar> I have no admin toolbox ^^ 14:35:48 <MiHaMiX> Celestar: yes, I just have noticed :) 14:35:55 <MiHaMiX> Celestar: I'm fixing the problem currently 14:36:05 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has joined #openttd 14:38:32 <MiHaMiX> ok, 14:38:42 <MiHaMiX> not ready still, but more than nothing 14:38:52 <MiHaMiX> just created a 'regular patchers' group 14:39:10 <MiHaMiX> those belongs to this group who send regular patches 14:40:11 <KUDr_wrk> <Celestar> KUDr appears now as the only Project Manager to me? <--- I don't want such big responsibility 14:40:29 <MeusH> MiHaMiX: something like me? 14:42:29 <MiHaMiX> KUDr_wrk: don't worry, you are already moved to 'regular patchers' 14:42:38 <KUDr_wrk> thanks 14:42:55 *** Qrrbrbirlbel [i=Q@p54A7E0B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:42:58 <MiHaMiX> MeusH: how many patches did you sent already? 14:43:38 <KUDr_wrk> MiHaMiX: but still "assign to self No " 14:44:08 <MiHaMiX> KUDr_wrk: yes, regular patchers are not allowed to assign a task to self, but the project admin can assign a task to them 14:44:12 <MiHaMiX> KUDr_wrk: which task? 14:44:19 <MeusH> MiHaMiX: 3-8 14:44:27 <KUDr_wrk> 97 14:45:22 <MeusH> I'm "reporter" 14:46:39 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 14:54:40 <hylje> should there be a keyboard shortcut for tile info? 14:55:36 <MeusH> H? I? 14:55:43 <MeusH> (help/info) 14:55:53 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: are you around? 14:55:54 <Celestar> if (GetEngine(engtype)->railtype == RAILTYPE_ELECTRIC && !HasPowerOnRail(v->u.rail.railtype, GetTileRailType(v->tile, GetVehicleTrackdir(v)))) 14:55:59 <Celestar> you don't need the first part .. 14:56:12 *** Splatman1984 [n=mark@81-178-80-47.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [] 14:57:01 <MeusH> no first part would mean no steam/smoke for steamers and diesels, on non electrified tracks 14:57:03 <MeusH> imo... 14:57:04 <peter1138> MiHaMiX: yes 14:57:49 <peter1138> MeusH: no it wouldn't 14:58:49 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: is there any ETA on utf-8 patch? 14:59:15 <peter1138> no, but there's not a lot left to do 14:59:21 <peter1138> i need to handle input properly 14:59:38 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: what should I write to a wannabe ukrainian translator? 14:59:42 * MeusH looks at HasPowerOnRail 15:00:18 <glx> MeusH: HasPowerOnRail returns true for diesel on conventionnal and elrail 15:02:15 <MeusH> seems so 15:02:16 <MeusH> hmm 15:02:24 <MeusH> one second more for me thinking 15:02:46 *** egladil [n=egladil@akvarium.csbnet.se] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:02:58 <MeusH> HasPowerOnRail returns false only for electric engines on conventional rails, or in case of errors/invalid types? 15:03:41 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:04:07 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-174-212.vodafone-net.de] has quit ["Nachtschicht ruft!"] 15:04:59 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 15:08:50 <MeusH> Allright, it's working! 15:08:50 <MeusH> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/90 15:08:53 <MeusH> It works* 15:09:07 <Sacro> damn it, php arrays start from 0 by default dont they 15:09:22 <MeusH> but I think I've got an objection 15:09:26 <MeusH> It all depends on you 15:09:34 <MeusH> this is needed only for electric carriages 15:10:03 <MeusH> with the "first part", some checks could have been avoided 15:10:17 <MeusH> this meant less processing for non-electric trains 15:10:33 <MeusH> now, without the "first part", processing is done for all trains 15:10:36 <glx> but if we have more rail types this prevent a rewrite later 15:10:48 <MeusH> yes 15:11:22 <MeusH> so, let's hope people won't complain about low performace because of "sparks" 15:12:21 *** WolfLaptop [n=wolf@213.196.14.254] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )"] 15:12:29 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-6310.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 15:13:58 <peter1138> is it slow? heh 15:14:16 <peter1138> if it's really slow, put it after the vehicle tick tests 15:14:16 <MeusH> now, it isn't 15:14:22 <peter1138> then it will be called less often 15:14:25 <MeusH> but some people may say it's slow 15:14:26 <MiHaMiX> Sacro: yes 15:14:30 <MeusH> it's like a desease 15:14:44 <MeusH> someone keeps complaining too much 15:14:51 <MeusH> just fyi 15:15:05 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: so, do you have any idea what should I reply to a wannabe ukrainian translator (his language doesn't fit into iso8859-15) 15:15:11 <MeusH> I'm happy with that patch, both nosparks2.patch and nosparks3.patch 15:15:18 <MeusH> you decide what to commit 15:15:57 <Born_Acorn> Im running the whole network on 350hp shunting diesels, and make more of a profit than ever! 15:16:28 <MeusH> MiHaMiX: an estimated time of utf-8 support (peter1138 may know that) 15:16:42 <Born_Acorn> Its the running costs. £170000 a year to £44000. Bit of a drop. 15:17:13 <MeusH> also, we may tell him to translate strings in his notepad/metapad/vim/whatever, then he may put it to webtranslator much easier 15:17:23 *** MeusH is now known as MeusH[away] 15:17:35 <Celestar> Out of memory. Type HELP MEMORY for your options. 15:17:36 <peter1138> MeusH[away]: no, i don't ;p 15:17:38 <Celestar> \o/ 15:17:42 <Born_Acorn> Lets make Babelfish do all the translation from now on :p 15:17:48 <Celestar> I have 2 Gigs or RAM in the box. 15:17:49 <peter1138> MiHaMiX: not sure... is there some way of allowing utf8 input for it? 15:17:54 * Celestar goes finding memory sticks 15:18:26 <Born_Acorn> Celestar, using NPF? :p 15:19:06 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: WT2 can handle utf8 input, but currently I validate the input to iso8859-15 since the known Openttd limitations 15:19:11 <Celestar> nope, matlab :S 15:19:52 <peter1138> MiHaMiX: yeah, can you turn it off for one language? 15:20:06 <Born_Acorn> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24634 <= Always wanted one of them :p 15:21:22 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: I can, but that would be an ugly solution, and the translator couldn't test his translations 15:21:35 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: but .. I can turn off 15:22:06 <Celestar> BAH 15:22:22 <peter1138> MiHaMiX: hmm 15:22:35 * Celestar detonates 15:23:10 <hylje> wisp 15:23:19 <MiHaMiX> suicide terrorist! :) 15:23:26 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@85.96.131.193] has joined #openttd 15:23:27 <hylje> no, wisp 15:23:33 <MiHaMiX> jnmbk: hi 15:23:38 <hylje> dispels magic and drains mana when detonated 15:23:41 <jnmbk> hi 15:27:01 <MiHaMiX> bbl 15:27:17 *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has joined #openttd 15:30:58 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:31:19 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 15:36:20 *** magnus_1986 [n=chatzill@82.178.83.234] has joined #openttd 15:36:52 <Celestar> I hate vectorized printf. 15:37:03 *** ArmEagle [n=armeagle@cc8543-a.groni1.gr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 15:37:35 <Celestar> especially when you accidently pass a 250-million-element-sized array to it instead of a single element out of the array 15:38:09 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: here are some results (timing OPF/YAPF): 15:38:09 <KUDr_wrk> 1) direct path (through 10 crossings + 30 crossings around) -> OPF:197 / YAPF:223 / NPF:1170 15:38:09 <KUDr_wrk> 2) indirect path (40 crossings in direct path, bus must go around to reach the destination) -> OPF:240 / YAPF:246 / NPF:1457 (but OPF chooses wrong way - never reaches the destination) 15:38:28 <KUDr_wrk> numbers are us 15:38:39 <Celestar> that looks rather well 15:38:58 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: what about if destination is not reachable? 15:39:06 <Celestar> how fast do you abort? 15:39:12 <KUDr_wrk> hmm 15:39:15 <KUDr_wrk> can try 15:41:02 <KUDr_wrk> OPF:240 / YAPF:240 / NPF:1447 15:42:04 <KUDr_wrk> but huge map: OPF:240 / YAPF:5000 / NPF:20000 15:42:24 <KUDr_wrk> huge means thousands crossings 15:43:02 <Celestar> why is OPF better in this case? 15:43:11 <Celestar> broader search? 15:43:29 <KUDr_wrk> YAPF:5000 / NPF:20000 ,--- this is when npf_max_search_nodes = 10000 15:43:50 <KUDr_wrk> OPF simply gives up much sooner 15:44:01 <KUDr_wrk> it failes also when path exists 15:45:07 *** MeusH[away] is now known as MeusH 15:46:20 <Celestar> true 15:46:29 <Celestar> can this number of "5000" be tweaked? 15:46:40 <Celestar> with some .cfg setting? 15:47:55 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: I'll write this guy that the utf-8 support are rapidly approaching therefore I advise him to wait a little 15:49:00 <MeusH> good move :) 15:50:32 <peter1138> yea 15:50:53 *** omay [n=omay@dslb-088-072-032-194.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:51:07 <omay> hi, what is the key shortcut to borrow money? 15:51:25 <peter1138> there isn't 15:51:30 <Born_Acorn> hmm. can't you drag electric rails over convrails yet? 15:51:42 <Patrick`> you can control-click on "borrow" to borrow the max amount in one go 15:51:58 <Celestar> Born_Acorn: no, I'm working on it 15:51:59 <glx> Born_Acorn: no but you can use convert tool 15:52:18 <Born_Acorn> I was trying to mak a junction 15:52:30 <omay> Patrick`: thx! 15:52:47 <Born_Acorn> Good that its being worked on though. 15:54:40 <Brianetta> Does elrail cost more yet? 15:55:32 <Born_Acorn> no 15:55:38 <MiHaMiX> t should. 15:55:41 <MiHaMiX> it should. 15:55:43 <Born_Acorn> not according to this latest nightly anyway. 15:56:13 <Born_Acorn> and when convertingto elrail, it should be only the cost of catenary and not catenary+track 15:56:26 <Born_Acorn> since you are upgrading. 15:56:45 <MeusH> indeed 15:58:05 <Born_Acorn> how strange. an electric train went the wrong way up the track. 15:58:33 <KUDr_wrk> <Celestar> can this number of "5000" be tweaked? <--- npf_max_search_nodes 15:58:57 <KUDr_wrk> but 5 ms is not much 15:59:33 <KUDr_wrk> it is acceptable if path-not-found -> invalid-user-error 15:59:35 <Celestar> depends on the numbe rof vehicles. 15:59:46 <Celestar> Brianetta: no that will happen with the balancing. 15:59:56 <Celestar> currently monorails and maglevs don't cost more as well 16:00:57 <Born_Acorn> hmm. the track isn't auto-joined when building a normal depot next to elrail 16:03:11 <Celestar> no 16:03:13 <Celestar> it isn't 16:03:18 <Celestar> it's two different railtypes. 16:03:25 <Brianetta> Maglevs should be unbelievably expensive. (: 16:03:46 <Celestar> Brianetta: which is totally unrealistic 16:03:54 <Brianetta> Well, maybe 16:04:12 <Brianetta> Maglev is more expensive IRL because of scaled economies 16:04:14 <Sacro> 150KB/s should be illegal 16:04:34 <Brianetta> Sacro: Too right. I wouldn't put up with such a sluggardly rate. 16:04:42 <MeusH> vote 150KB/s for moderator! 16:05:05 <Sacro> Brianetta: us non-bt people can only get up to 300KB/s without a business line 16:05:40 *** Rexxie [n=rexxars@ti131310a080-5398.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 16:05:56 <Celestar> Brianetta: Maglevs are about factor 1.5x - 1.8x more expensive in track construction and factor 2x less expensive in track maintenance (compared to 300km/h convrail) 16:06:36 <MeusH> TTD misses maintenance costs at all 16:06:39 <hylje> Sacro: around here you can get fullrate adsl (1M/s) for quite cheap 16:06:46 <MeusH> besides some fixed monthly fees 16:06:59 <Celestar> MeusH: I have a maintenance cost patch 16:07:02 *** MeusH is now known as MeusH[away] 16:07:13 <Celestar> but it is out ofd atae 16:07:24 <Brianetta> Sacro: I'm non-BT 16:07:28 <MeusH[away]> Celestar: that's terrrific. I hope it doesn't loop through all tiles? 16:07:30 <Celestar> after 0.5.0 I'll start a balancing branch 16:07:39 <MeusH[away]> Celestar: you can count on me 16:07:42 <MeusH[away]> later guys 16:08:27 *** magnus_1986 [n=chatzill@82.178.83.234] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:08:27 <Brianetta> Celestar: That doesn't take into account right of way purchase. This is what makes expansion of the UK rail network prohibitively expensive, for example. 16:08:51 <Celestar> MeusH[away]: it does loop. but the code loops anyway through all tiles, so it's a minor addon. 16:08:57 <Brianetta> Building rails has two costs - construction and land purchase. The latter inflates much more than the former. 16:09:10 <Brianetta> That isn't reflected in OpenTTD, though 16:09:12 <Celestar> Brianetta: that is rather independent of the railtype. 16:09:27 <Brianetta> Celestar: Not so - you can't build maglevs when land is still cheap. 16:09:29 <Celestar> Brianetta: actually the opposite is true, Maglevs have a lower land consumption. 16:09:36 <hylje> and building stuff on bridges is actually cheaper when land is expensive 16:09:56 <hylje> thus, elevated rail 16:10:06 <Brianetta> Maglevs have identical land consumption in OpenTTD 16:10:29 <Brianetta> Monorails should have practically 0, but htey also take up as much land. 16:11:07 <Patrick`> closer to a town - much more expensive? 16:11:18 <Patrick`> all that'll do is just make it harder in the start-game 16:11:41 <Patrick`> ideally, costs should scale with network size such that "having lots of trains" isn't a license to print money 16:11:43 <Brianetta> Patrick`: It is by default, as building sufficiently close to a town involves demolition and/or difficult terraforming options 16:11:50 <Patrick`> mm, 3 billion 16:12:15 <Celestar> Brianetta: my track maintenance patch takes that into account as well. 16:12:31 <Celestar> the closer you get to a city center, the more expensive construction becomes. 16:12:56 <hylje> building stations to town centers earlygame = win 16:12:57 <hylje> ? 16:13:11 <Jang-> Celestar: you started thinking about HS lines? 16:13:20 <Sacro> hylje: im on 1.5 i think, maybe 2 16:13:29 <Celestar> out in the boonies you pay normal costs (like now with "purchase land"), and then it goes up to x4, x9, x16, x25 16:14:51 <hylje> ouch 16:16:30 <peter1138> guys 16:16:43 <peter1138> 2cc & colour schemes 16:16:43 <Eddi|zuHause> the cost of dirty terrain is 0, right? 16:16:55 <peter1138> do we want to allow different colours depending on engine type? 16:17:18 <Celestar> hylje: have you tried building a hugeass station in the middle a big cites in this decade? You'll find that's close to impossible. 16:17:33 <Celestar> I think the game should reflect that you cannot bulldoze half a town for a single station. 16:17:36 <hylje> thats why those hugeass stations were built last decade 16:17:55 <Celestar> hylje: they were mostly built 1-2 CENTURIES ago. 16:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that is why we need undergound rails 16:18:00 *** |VillageIdiot| [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:18:03 <hylje> but you got my point 16:18:22 *** snoop__ [n=snoop@ti211310a080-11844.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 16:18:46 <hylje> those stations will be built early game 16:18:48 <Sacro> peter1138: the same as TTDP 16:18:54 <Eddi|zuHause> there are quite a few projects of large stations going currently in germany 16:18:57 <Jang-> tbh, the cost of construction and maintenance only affects in the first 5 years of play 16:19:04 <peter1138> and what about network games? 16:19:07 <Jang-> after that, you can spend millions on a route and still be in profit 16:19:16 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah? Stuttgart 21 is uncertain, München 21 is dead. 16:19:25 <snoop__> is it possible to give your company 2 colors in Open TTD? For example if i want to make cargo arcraft a different color to identify them easily 16:19:25 <hylje> 5 years -- on hard? 16:19:36 <Jang-> yeah, pretty much 16:19:37 <Born_Acorn> I believe transrapid style track requires only the right of way, due to the fact that only the pylon space is bought. 16:19:40 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... my information is a little outdated on this, i assume ;) 16:19:47 <Eddi|zuHause> but they built one in berlin 16:19:54 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: and all of this involves selling the current land. 16:19:54 <Born_Acorn> snoop__, not yet 16:19:57 <Jang-> hylje: but without breakdowns - i hate breakdowns 16:20:03 <Celestar> snoop__: work-in-progress 16:20:05 <hylje> breakdowns are the win 16:20:06 <hylje> shush 16:20:12 <Jang-> they r teh suck 16:20:12 <Born_Acorn> It needs to be codiferatederisationated. 16:20:21 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498D37E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:20:21 <Jang-> particularly when they break down on junctions 16:20:22 <Jang-> ag 16:20:27 <Born_Acorn> Breakdown ftl. 16:20:46 <peter1138> it's been codiferatederisationated. 16:21:17 <hylje> when you do the newmap thing, make sure real elevated/submerged rail would be possible 16:21:41 <hylje> somewhat possible now but quite limited :| 16:21:49 <Jang-> it's the only thing about locomotion that's even reasonable.... the ability to build anywhere... 16:21:51 <Celestar> hylje: first, bridge stuff. 16:21:58 <Jang-> unfortauntely he messed it up big style 16:22:11 <hylje> Celestar: elevated rail would be mostly bridge stuff tbh 16:22:14 <Celestar> Jang-: the interface was the second worst thing I have ever seen. 16:22:20 <Jang-> yes 16:22:25 <Celestar> right after Windows 16:22:36 <Jang-> the signalling sucked, the AI sucked, the building interface sucked 16:23:06 <peter1138> i was going to say the pathfinding sucked 16:23:06 <Jang-> i can build a quick network in under a minute in openttd.....the same thing in loco took about 10 mins 16:23:10 <Jang-> that too 16:23:12 <peter1138> but i'm not sure it had a pathfinder... 16:23:16 <Jang-> lol 16:23:20 <Celestar> peter1138: yes. 16:23:26 <Born_Acorn> but if it has been codiferatederisationated, why hasn't it been committedifericatedinisationerised? 16:23:31 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54946DFA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:23:32 <Celestar> if (crossing) SelectRandomPath(); 16:23:43 * ledow put his copy of Locomotion on eBay about 10 minutes after installing it 16:23:57 <Jang-> if (signal been built) { doNotUpdateSignalsInNetwork(); } 16:24:10 <Jang-> that aggravated slightly 16:24:12 <Celestar> the lack of depot was crazy. 16:24:25 <Jang-> it's like... how NOT to do an ttd update 16:24:34 <Celestar> and after 5 years in-game you spent 92% of your time replacing vehicles. 16:24:42 <Jang-> yeah 16:24:48 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:24:49 <Celestar> only thing it did was eating LOTS of CPU power. 16:24:53 <Jang-> and completely lose motivation to expand your network 16:25:08 <Celestar> expand? by 1915 the whole map was connected. 16:25:29 <Jang-> i suppose... i never got that far 16:25:44 <Celestar> and people in towns obviously fucked each other like rabbits. a 300-soul backwater village turned into a megalopolis in 10-15 years. 16:26:03 <Celestar> just because you built 2 bus stops 16:26:11 <Jang-> yeah, the balance was appalling 16:26:21 <Jang-> ttd is infinitely playable in comparison 16:26:30 <Celestar> even TTO :) 16:26:34 <Jang-> yeah 16:26:43 <Jang-> bah, even RT :) 16:26:49 <Celestar> RRT was a great game. 16:26:56 <Celestar> few titles came close to it. 16:27:01 <Celestar> CIV was one of them. 16:27:21 <Jang-> yeah, there are very few games which have that kind of playability and longetivity 16:27:33 <Jang-> none of the sim titles did 16:27:40 <Celestar> once you have 2-3 tracks stacked at one tile (one bridge, two tunnels) it was impossible to do anything on either of them. 16:27:47 <Celestar> SimEarth was funny ;) 16:27:54 <Jang-> i vaguely remember that 16:27:58 <Jang-> and sim farm 16:28:01 <Jang-> and sim ant! 16:28:02 <Celestar> or SimCity Original. 16:28:04 <Jang-> bizarre 16:28:04 *** e1ko_ [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 16:28:10 *** Mucht [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 16:28:18 <Celestar> no crappy 2000, 3000, 4000, or 1701 16:28:24 *** Mucht is now known as Mucht|zZz 16:28:30 <Jang-> 1701? what's that about? 16:28:33 <Celestar> even tho SC2k was decent. 16:28:41 <Jang-> 4k was too easy 16:28:43 <Celestar> 1701 is the registration number of the USS Enterprise. 16:28:43 <ledow> Who remembers Sim Tower, though? 16:28:44 <Jang-> by far 16:28:50 *** snoop__ [n=snoop@ti211310a080-11844.bb.online.no] has quit [] 16:28:52 <Celestar> ledow: I do. 16:28:57 <Jang-> oh... (i'm not a star trek fan) 16:28:59 <Celestar> ledow: nice game, too few elevators allowed. 16:29:09 <Jang-> ledow: i played it too 16:29:12 <Jang-> quite fun 16:29:14 <Jang-> don't build condos 16:29:16 <Celestar> ledow: it was the first playable game on Windows. 16:29:16 <Jang-> easy money 16:29:19 <ledow> I'd liked the graphics on it - simple but effective. 16:29:22 <Jang-> but caused headaches 16:29:33 <ledow> Little coloured silhouettes of people 16:29:35 <Celestar> "WinG" 16:29:39 <ledow> Urk 16:29:46 <Jang-> right, time to play fussball 16:29:49 <Jang-> bbl 16:30:12 *** Jang- [n=Jango@mettab.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Using KVIrc 3.0.1 'System Virtue'"] 16:31:24 <ledow> I remember Win32s and WinG and spending ages looking for something that actually could a) use them and b) run faster with them than without 16:32:54 <Celestar> yeah :P 16:33:26 <Patrick`> aah, sim tower 16:33:30 <Eddi|zuHause> civ 2 used wing, iirc 16:33:58 <ledow> The only other thing I remember that used WinG was the "Z80" spectrum emulator... but then it was so buggy under windows that you couldn't use it and the DOS version ran faster under windows than the windows version. 16:34:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and each time i moved my system to another computer, i had to search for those damn DLLs to get it running again 16:35:57 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-156-245.vodafone-net.de] has joined #openttd 16:36:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember installing civ2 the first time under win 3.1 on my 386 dx 25 16:36:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it spent like minutest moving around some weird graphics, testing something before even starting 16:36:35 <Eddi|zuHause> -t 16:37:10 <ledow> That's right 16:37:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and then the .avis for the wonders did not work 16:37:19 <ledow> it had some weird graphics test thing on it 16:37:22 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:38:27 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently, lack of codec 16:40:01 <ledow> I paid more than my computer was worth for the 4Mb RAM upgrade to be able to run Windows 3.1 16:40:20 <Patrick`> see, this is just silly 16:40:25 <Patrick`> max difficulty for everything 16:40:37 <Patrick`> and I'm making more money than I can spend in 1953 16:41:06 <Patrick`> I'm not trying hard and I've not paid my loan but I'm just happily building a network at my own pace without touching water or farmland, and bam, I have £100,000 16:41:23 <Patrick`> in fact, I just spent 30k flattening fields 16:42:32 <guru3> you're right, it should be harder 16:43:13 *** RichK67 [n=RichK67@talk-210-66.talkadsl.com] has joined #openttd 16:43:20 <ledow> OpenTTD really, really needs a decent AI player - one that can use ***trains*** and one that doesn't build two million bridges across several miles of water to get to the square next to it's starting point. 16:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is there something wrong with the prices of newbridges? 16:44:02 <XeryusTC> ledow: go work at openttd.gpmi then 16:44:11 <peter1138> wooden bridges at that 16:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause> they cost less than 1 tile of normal rail 16:44:28 <RichK67> lol - i once had the AI do that on my Africa map - spanned the Red Sea (lengthways) twice to travel about 4 squares ground distance :) 16:44:48 <ledow> No point me doing it - I can write you a chess AI or a reversi AI or something like that in a matter of minutes but I'm absolutely CRAP at OpenTTD. 16:45:28 <XeryusTC> ledow: openttd.gpmi allows you to make scrips 16:45:30 <Eddi|zuHause> it can't be that difficult... it mainly needs to use a better pathfinding, and planning ahead instead of bruteforcing 16:45:34 <XeryusTC> so you don't need to edit the actual source 16:45:51 *** AciD [n=gni@tehpwnz.org] has joined #openttd 16:46:37 <ledow> That sort of stuff is REALLY involved. The decisions an AI can make in OpenTTD are so open, it's got to be extremely powerful or extremely well programmed to be able to compete on the same level as someone like me who's rubbish. 16:47:09 <Patrick`> either that, or we specifically program an AI to follow a set pattern 16:47:18 <Patrick`> which is cheating 16:47:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the AI is cheating anyway 16:47:42 <Patrick`> I mean, of course, the almost mechanical way we lay down a network, a roro or other station as appropriate 16:47:44 <Eddi|zuHause> like terraforming for free 16:47:48 <Patrick`> well, I do it almost mechanically 16:47:51 * ledow did a bit of game theory and a bit of AI for his mathematics&computing degree and still wouldn't like to touch something like OpenTTD AI. 16:48:21 <Patrick`> ledow, there are simple ways to do it 16:48:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but i agree... developing an AI needs a decent level of code abstraction 16:48:46 <ledow> Patrick`: Granted - but then they become simple ways to beat the AI. :-) 16:48:46 <Patrick`> bus spamming inside towns will make money, but at the cost of royally pissing off the opponents because all the towns balloon 16:48:54 <Patrick`> then airports are literally brainless 16:49:12 <Patrick`> trains are just amusing 16:50:03 <ledow> Road vehicles aren't so bad - choose two endpoints, join them by the shortest path you can (moving the endpoints a little if it makes it easier) and then make a load of buses to go between those stations. 16:50:19 <ledow> But there are so many complications it soon gets out of hand. 16:50:24 <RichK67> afaic the biggest problem in creating a good rail ai is that we only want to allow it to build as fast as us humans, and so it has to recalculate track routes every cycle, since the terrain can have changed in between 16:50:33 <ledow> Trains would be next-to-impossible to get a decent AI for. 16:50:57 <ledow> Anything like transfers would be an ABSOLUTE nightmare to code 16:51:16 <Eddi|zuHause> you paint this thing too black 16:51:29 <hylje> AI cloning the players' tactics could be lame 16:51:30 <RichK67> im not convinced the transfers system works for us humans that well! 16:51:38 <Patrick`> hylje: yes, it would be, but it'd be doable 16:51:52 <Patrick`> ideally a perfect AI would develop network theory and junctions itself 16:51:53 <Eddi|zuHause> well... we need a proper transfer system first ;) 16:51:57 <Patrick`> but, well, er, no 16:51:58 <ledow> Eddi: You could get a playable AI - proof of that is the two we have now. You'll just won't get one that will beat (or even challenge) an experienced player on a fair basis 16:52:25 <Patrick`> if the AI spammed trains like it does road vehicles 16:52:30 <ledow> AI that has to cheat to win isn't AI. 16:52:30 <Patrick`> and fed every industry together 16:52:47 <Patrick`> can you imagine that? a map filled with short tracks 16:53:23 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, an AI is never really intelligent, but you can very well adapt usual real player's strategies into a script, if the script language is sufficiently high level 16:53:24 <ledow> And besides, if I were working on AI, I'd want a very simple, very easy, very nice programming language in which to express it. 16:53:26 <RichK67> i dunno ledow - i often miss good opportunities because i cant check all the source ind=>secondary inds in a big map... AI could check lots, and as soon as cash is available, it builds a track 16:53:40 <hylje> give the AI a lot of money and make it buyout the player when possible 16:53:42 <Patrick`> exactly 16:54:02 <Patrick`> so many times I've missed a 1000 ton industry that has a rating of appalling because I only have 1 train on it 16:57:18 <ledow> An OpenTTD AI would have so many triggers and possibilities it would be amazingly complex - it would have to REGULARLY check all it's vehicles were profitable - determine the cause (the REALLY hard part... did the roads change? Did the bus breakdown more than normal? Did the bus get stuck? Did it loop? etc.), and fix it. It would have to monitor every industry, every city, every station, every subsidy. For each one of those the amount of 16:57:18 <ledow> processing behind it would be quite large, adding up to an enormous amount of CPU time and searching. And that's before you even get into WHERE does it build the station, HOW does it get a decent rail path between two stations, etc.etc.etc. 16:57:37 <Patrick`> meh 16:57:40 <Patrick`> do it once a year 16:57:52 *** Sian^_^ [n=Devilen@cpe.atm2-0-74539.0x50c6d2c6.virnxx17.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:57:55 <Patrick`> if a vehicle is unprofitable for 2 years in a row, sell it 16:58:32 <ledow> It's not just as simple as reducing the frequency, it's the difficulty of each particular task. 16:59:34 <hylje> just use a random number generator 16:59:36 <XeryusTC> Patrick`: and what if all vehicles on a certain route didn't make any profit? 16:59:36 <Eddi|zuHause> ledow: such things need to be supported by the game basics... like a pathfinder that, when it returns "no path" actually means "there is no path" instead of "i did not find a path, because i don't look ahead" 16:59:41 <hylje> and make really random stuff 16:59:42 <ledow> Hell, finding a decent train route around a set of obstacles etc. is VERY hard to describe mathematically, it's not just a matter of plain pathfinding - that's easy when you've done a course in graph theory. 17:00:14 <Patrick`> XeryusTC: eh, sell the route 17:00:21 <XeryusTC> http://xeryustc.cjb.net/AI/005.png http://xeryustc.cjb.net/AI/006.png 17:00:50 <guru3> loading 17:00:55 * Vornicus waits for it to load. 17:01:12 <XeryusTC> heh, i dont have that much upload 17:01:21 <guru3> the suspense is killing me 17:01:34 <Eddi|zuHause> tohse buildings look really ugly 17:01:39 <Eddi|zuHause> *those 17:01:42 <Vornicus> ...whoa. 17:01:43 <guru3> really tall 17:01:45 <Vornicus> That's pretty good. 17:01:54 <XeryusTC> the height is a bit of a problem 17:01:56 <guru3> and yeah pretty good ai work 17:02:06 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@85.96.131.193] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 17:02:06 <XeryusTC> thank you 17:02:33 * Vornicus doesn't think he'd be able to pull road vehicle stuff off that well... 17:03:00 <Vornicus> ...and these are all municipal bus lines? 17:03:20 <XeryusTC> they are all made by my script :) 17:03:41 * Vornicus is v. v. impressed. 17:04:13 <Patrick`> oops 17:04:24 <XeryusTC> hehe, the script can't tell his own depots from a depot of any other company right now :( 17:04:25 <Patrick`> how can I go back into flyspray and change the category of something? 17:04:42 <Vornicus> Poke an admin 17:04:45 <Patrick`> damn 17:04:54 <Patrick`> admin: I put backend/core for a UI feature request 17:05:09 <glx> XeryusTC: I though you had fixed this 17:05:25 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is there a particluar reason why my aircraft goes to the hangar and stops there, even though i did not touch it in years? (breakdowns and service are off) 17:05:30 <Born_Acorn> peter1138, how close is newstations to completion? 17:05:37 <XeryusTC> glx: i was working on it, untill i found out that there is that nasty bug in openttd.gpmi that doesn't map depots :( 17:06:36 <Eddi|zuHause> hmzzz... i cannot autoreplace a zeppelin by a plane... :( 17:06:43 <Darkvater> back 17:06:44 <Patrick`> oh, this guy that wants ottd to support ludicrous screen resolutions, is it actually a hard-coded limit? 17:06:52 <Patrick`> I'm almost certain it's a problem with the OS 17:06:59 <XeryusTC> my AI is still kind of stupid, it doesn't know if it tries to build a station next to a slope road 17:07:03 <Patrick`> there wouldn't be any limit on ottd window size other than integer overflow 17:07:07 <ledow> Patrick`: what's ludicrous 17:07:11 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a max resolution in the code, i think 17:07:16 <Patrick`> 10240x7680 17:07:19 <XeryusTC> <Eddi|zuHause> hmzzz... i cannot autoreplace a zeppelin by a plane... :( <- zeppelins are choppers iirc 17:07:20 <ledow> whoa 17:07:21 <Patrick`> aah, right 17:07:27 <ledow> What's he got? A billboard? 17:07:31 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i know 17:07:32 <Patrick`> practically though he has 1600x1200 twice 17:07:35 <Patrick`> to make 3200x1600 17:07:38 <Patrick`> er 17:07:40 <Patrick`> whatever 17:07:42 <Patrick`> it's WIDE screen 17:07:44 <Hendikins> Anyone up for a game? 17:07:45 <Patrick`> and it doesn't work 17:07:50 <Patrick`> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/113 17:07:53 <XeryusTC> 3200x1200 you mean? 17:07:55 <Patrick`> just browing around 17:07:55 <XeryusTC> :P 17:07:56 <Patrick`> yeah 17:07:58 <Patrick`> whatever 17:08:00 <ledow> That's not widescreen that's... WWWWWWWWWWWWIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEEEEEE screen 17:08:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that's dual screen 17:08:13 <Patrick`> left screen wooooiiiide 17:08:28 <Patrick`> http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemailahundred.html 17:08:30 * Vornicus quietly places Homestar off the right side of the screen. 17:08:43 <Born_Acorn> Everyone got the reference! 17:08:47 <Born_Acorn> woo. 17:08:54 <XeryusTC> that's like, one side of my desktop is in a different timezone then the other :P 17:09:49 <ledow> Think we should have a competition: Who can get OpenTTD on the largest screen possible. Bonus points for billboards in Oxford Street or suitably public places. 17:10:16 <hylje> largest as in size in m^2 or pixels? 17:10:19 <Hendikins> ledow: I could just borrow a laptop and take it to the cinema... 17:10:30 <ledow> A million pounds to the first person to get a 1024x1024 map to show up in a single screen width. 17:10:35 <Neonox> hmm, at work i have 8 monitors :) 17:10:38 <|Jeroen|> wow 17:10:41 <Patrick`> it's in openttd.h 17:11:01 <XeryusTC> put it on a billboard on piccadilly circus (you'll probably need to hire one from coca cola :() 17:11:25 * Hendikins spins latest nightly revision 17:11:58 <ledow> Bonus points for getting a photo of OpenTTD running on those little monitors on airport check-in desks. 17:12:24 <XeryusTC> hehe 17:12:35 <Hendikins> It would probably get photochopped 17:12:59 <Hendikins> So nobody wants to kick my arse? :P 17:13:31 <ledow> I find the thing that limits the speed of OpenTTD the most is actually graphics bandwidth. 17:16:05 <Vornicus> probably. 17:16:44 <Hendikins> No takers for latest nightly on subtropical? 17:16:59 <ledow> My 1Ghz/512Mb laptop with a crappy built-in AGP card beats the hell out of my 1GHz/512Mb desktop with a PCI Geforce MX 440 card. 17:17:32 <Patrick`> same CPU type? 17:18:07 <ledow> yep 17:18:24 <ledow> As close as. So theoretically the desktop should be faster cos it's not a laptop chip. 17:18:45 <stillunknown> are there any tell tale signs of direct map accessing besides m1. to m5. ? 17:19:08 <stillunknown> what kind of laptop chip? 17:19:17 <stillunknown> and what kind desktop chip? 17:19:44 <ledow> Would have to look it up and laptop is elsewhere at mo. 17:20:17 <ledow> I deal with far too many computers to remember details like specs. offhand ;-) 17:20:19 <Darkvater> RichK67: ping 17:20:20 <Belugas> I wonder if a string declared by action 04 can have the same ID in the same file but for a different feature.... 17:20:59 <Belugas> stillunknown : What do you mean by tell tale signs and map stuff? 17:21:31 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has quit ["Whoopsy"] 17:21:38 <stillunknown> someone updated a patch and said they removed map accesors, since i keep my own svn copy i was busy updating it 17:22:06 <stillunknown> but i don't know what map accessors, since i've only seen the m1, m2, etc kind 17:22:11 <Vornicus> where can I find the IN? 17:22:25 <Darkvater> INside 17:22:30 * Vornicus beats Darkvater with a pan. 17:22:34 *** wolf^ [i=wolf@pld-linux/wolf] has joined #openttd 17:22:42 <Darkvater> keke ^_^ 17:22:56 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:23:03 <ledow> Vornicus: just down the road, turn left, don't let him tell you he hasn't got a room for the night. He tried that on 2000 years ago. 17:23:21 * Vornicus beats ledow with a pan too. 17:23:34 <glx> Vornicus: ask RichK67 17:23:38 * ledow removes his new Teflon wig. 17:23:53 <Vornicus> He's not here! 17:24:05 *** tokai|mdlx [n=tokai@p54B84FE9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:24:16 <Belugas> stillunknown : m1, m2, m3, m4, m5 and extra. Those are the only ones 17:24:30 <Vornicus> and type_height or whatever it is. 17:24:58 *** DJ_Mirage [n=djmirage@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:25:26 <MiHaMiX> ALL: which is correct: committed or commited ? 17:25:46 <Darkvater> 2t 17:25:48 <Vornicus> the former 17:26:36 <MiHaMiX> ok 17:26:39 <MiHaMiX> thx 17:27:01 <Darkvater> sjiet, I still need write MiHaMiX an email ;) 17:27:46 <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: you have plenty of times, since I'll attend to a 3-day conference from tomorrow 17:28:02 <Darkvater> ah running from the water? ;-) 17:28:08 <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: and will have little possibility to change flyspray 17:28:18 <Patrick`> is there any pressing reason why someone couldn't at least change the max resolution to support dual screen 1600x1200? 17:28:54 <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: no, i'm attending to NetworkShop 2006 17:29:16 <Darkvater> :) 17:30:05 <Darkvater> Patrick`: the screen is split up into blocks. If you increase the maximum screenresolution just like this, the blocksizes will increase, and a bigger part of the screen will be needed to be redrawn each time 17:30:14 <Darkvater> which results in slower performance 17:35:23 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B8004B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:35:51 *** RichK67 [n=RichK67@talk-210-66.talkadsl.com] has quit [] 17:37:52 *** qball [n=qball@ipd50a4125.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 17:40:34 <Vornicus> ...damn. the latest miniIN patch doesn't work on the latest SVN. 17:42:34 * stillunknown maintains stuff in a svn server to make svn changes as acceptable as possible 17:43:26 <Vornicus> there's two rejections - one in economy.c, one in saveload.c that I got asked about, since it looked like an already-applied patch 17:43:53 <Patrick`> Darkvater: well, if you're going to set an arbitrary limit, make it a fairly popular screen resolution 17:44:30 <CIA-3> miham * r4469 /trunk/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed) 17:44:30 <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-04-18 17:44:30 <CIA-3> portuguese - 21 strings updated 17:44:30 <CIA-3> spanish - 50 strings updated 17:44:30 <CIA-3> german - 35 strings updated 17:44:31 <CIA-3> italian - 54 strings updated 17:44:33 <CIA-3> turkish - 52 strings updated 17:44:38 <MiHaMiX> ehh 17:45:04 <MiHaMiX> <CIA-3> polish - 113 strings updated 17:45:10 <MeusH[away]> thanks 17:45:14 *** MeusH[away] is now known as MeusH 17:45:31 <MiHaMiX> 9317 bad strings out of 72576 strings (2592 strings / language) 17:45:40 <MiHaMiX> Total percentage: 17:45:42 <MiHaMiX> 87% 17:53:45 <Patrick`> guru3: holy crap, you're the armagetron guy 17:54:04 <Patrick`> thanks for making 50% of the OSS 3d games worth playing 17:54:24 <Patrick`> 33% if you lot hurry up with 32bpp and opengl 17:54:49 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has joined #openttd 17:55:27 <Sacro> wow? thats guru3 the armagetron guy? never realised 18:02:21 *** Antitheus [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:02:53 *** |VillageIdiot| [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:02:57 <CIA-3> KUDr * r4470 /trunk/ (saveload.c settings.h stdafx.h): 18:02:57 <CIA-3> -Fix: FS#97 ?6?8?8 Possible bug in Win64 versions (by michi_cc) 18:02:57 <CIA-3> Doesn't fix any known bug, but the code is now bit cleaner. The proper result of subtraction of two pointers is ptrdiff_t. 18:03:21 <TL|Away> KUDr: do _not_ commit between 19:45 and 20:15 CEST 18:03:35 <KUDr> ohh shit - i am sorry 18:03:37 <TL|Away> give the nightly the time to finish his job, and to let other game servers update to the nightly too 18:03:52 <TL|Away> just don't do it again ;) :p 18:03:53 <KUDr> will remember 18:06:45 *** Antitheus [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has quit [Client Quit] 18:06:58 <blathijs> TL|Away: why doesn't that happen atomically? 18:06:58 *** kujeger_II [n=kujeger@host-81-191-145-149.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:07:17 <TL|Away> blathijs: what exactly? 18:07:22 <blathijs> TL|Away: building nightlies 18:07:27 <TL|Away> it does 18:07:37 <TL|Away> of course it does :p 18:07:40 <blathijs> then why is it a problem to commit around nightly time? 18:07:43 <TL|Away> nobody is going to run it every night :p 18:07:43 *** kujeger_II [n=kujeger@host-81-191-145-149.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 18:07:48 <TL|Away> blathijs: several reasons 18:07:53 <TL|Away> most important: there are nightly-servers out there 18:07:56 <blathijs> TL|Away: "atomically" != "automatically" 18:07:57 <TL|Away> with not so perfect clocks 18:07:59 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 18:08:16 <TL|Away> and so they can get a wrong revision against the nightly 18:08:32 <blathijs> can't we just publish the current nightly revision somewhere? 18:08:42 <blathijs> simple php script that prints just the revision number? 18:08:44 <TL|Away> I can, I can even call a webpage to anyone 18:08:51 <TL|Away> but still most servers do it themself 18:09:06 <TL|Away> so a while ago we established that we just shouldn't commit anything in that 30 minutes 18:09:16 <blathijs> yes, but then those servers can just fetch that php page and check out that revision 18:09:31 <blathijs> It's not a real problem not committing, though 18:09:44 <TL|Away> blathijs: I suggested that, the other way (I call a script of them), even to use timestamp on the checkout 18:09:47 <TL|Away> it doesn't help 18:09:50 <TL|Away> so to help them out 18:09:57 *** |VillageIdiot| [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:10:00 <TL|Away> it is better to give people the time to do their stuff 18:10:02 <TL|Away> what ever it is :) 18:10:18 <TL|Away> The nightly-system finally can handle the problem of a commit while compiling 18:10:23 <blathijs> TL|Away: It doesn't help, or people won't help themselves? ;-) 18:10:24 <TL|Away> but this wasn't true for a long time ;) 18:10:29 <TL|Away> blathijs: both ;) 18:10:45 <TL|Away> but so short, for administrative reasons, it is better to not do it 18:10:56 <TL|Away> my clocks are 100% accurate 18:11:01 <TL|Away> but not everyone has that luck :) 18:11:09 *** Antitheus [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:11:28 <TL|Away> we have 74 servers active... amazing 18:13:17 <Sacro> how many clients? 18:13:28 <TL|Away> dunno, the counter is broken for a long long time :) 18:13:34 <Sacro> oh right 18:14:30 <TL|Away> Someone should fix that... :p 18:14:31 *** Antitheus [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has quit [Client Quit] 18:14:38 *** |VillageIdiot| [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has quit [Client Quit] 18:14:42 *** |VillageIdiot| [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:14:43 <Sacro> yeah, i wonder who the dev is for that area... 18:14:53 <TL|Away> Currently? Nobody I guess... 18:15:04 <Sacro> but who runs the server? 18:15:07 <TL|Away> I do 18:15:18 <Sacro> then surely its your task :) 18:15:20 <MeusH> The sitiuation has changed 18:15:25 <MeusH> no it isn't... kinda 18:15:26 <TL|Away> I am sure it isn't :) 18:15:33 <TL|Away> I just host stuff :) 18:15:38 <TL|Away> I guess Darkvater should fix it :) 18:15:41 <TL|Away> he handles the webpage too.. 18:15:48 <Sacro> well thats true 18:15:57 <TL|Away> But the whole master-server should be revisted 18:16:02 <TL|Away> revisited 18:16:18 <Sacro> revised? 18:16:18 <TL|Away> I still vote for a central user-system :) 18:16:25 <Sacro> yeah, i like that idea 18:16:27 <TL|Away> That too, but mostly revisited :) 18:16:35 <TL|Away> Complete with a global score-system 18:16:38 <TL|Away> global ban-system 18:16:40 <Sacro> i was looking into it at one point, and now i have my pc running, i could have a go 18:16:45 <hylje> you mean a battle.net like system 18:16:53 <TL|Away> hylje: yeah, only a bit more open ;) 18:17:01 <hylje> integrate IRC into it while you're at it 18:17:09 <TL|Away> Sacro: client side is pretty much done ;) 18:17:23 <Sacro> TL|Away: it was server side that interested me 18:17:30 <TL|Away> hylje: I once suggested to launch a seperate IRC server for it, and let clients join the channel 18:17:37 *** Pipian [n=pipian@jacobi.stu.rpi.edu] has quit ["Client exiting"] 18:17:45 <TL|Away> Sacro: so then it is your lucky day, it is the only part that really needs to be done ;) 18:17:59 <izhirahider> Why is English, German and French the only alowed languages when you're creating a multiplayer game/server? 18:18:01 <TL|Away> Sacro: but I have no idea if the devs in here likes that or not 18:18:11 <hylje> could be useful to have useful chat tools while searching for game / in game 18:18:18 <TL|Away> izhirahider: I added those languages to show it is possible. The list should have been extended, but that somehow never happened... 18:18:20 <hylje> redundancy* 18:18:49 <izhirahider> TL|Away: Is it possible to filter other languages? 18:18:51 <Sacro> TL|Away: its to do with the server, rather than the game, so as long as its secure and it works, id say it was up to the server admins 18:19:04 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@81.213.70.16] has joined #openttd 18:19:15 <guru3> Patrick`: umm, you're welcome? 18:19:19 *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp85-141-200-95.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 18:19:32 <TL|Away> Sacro: ps, did you know you can cheat on servers that aren't advertised, but that you can't cheat on those who are advertised? :) 18:19:32 <Patrick`> does anyone know if it's possible to use svnadmin to mirror a repository on sourceforge? 18:19:37 <Patrick`> they only provision for rsync 18:19:46 <MeusH> TL|Away: do you know ELO system? 18:19:50 <TL|Away> SF and SVN / CVS is a no can do anyway :p 18:19:53 <TL|Away> ELO? No 18:19:59 <hylje> an awesome thing would be the ability to receive private messages while playing an internet game 18:20:06 <TL|Away> izhirahider: no, it isn't possible. It should be added... 18:20:07 <guru3> Patrick`: since when was there such interest in armagetron here? 18:20:14 <Patrick`> guru3: probably just me 18:20:19 <Patrick`> although I've not played for years 18:20:26 <guru3> it's gotten much better lately 18:20:37 <Patrick`> TL|Away: well exactly, I want to keep my own repo synchronised with them 18:20:48 <Patrick`> well, the other way around ideally 18:20:50 <MeusH> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system 18:20:55 <MeusH> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81rp%C3%A1d_%C3%89l%C5%91 18:20:56 <TL|Away> Patrick`: good luck ;) 18:21:06 <Patrick`> TL|Away: so it's difficult then? 18:21:07 <MeusH> read Elo_rating_system 18:21:22 <Patrick`> they provision for pulling out a backup via rsync, as I say 18:21:23 <MeusH> it is used on ESL internet sports, and it is pretty good 18:21:49 <TL|Away> MeusH: something like that yes :) 18:21:57 <TL|Away> Any scoring system will do in fact :) 18:22:11 <TL|Away> but I always wanted something like that :) Gives the game a more challanging aspect :) 18:22:16 <Patrick`> I recall that there used to be a svnadmin hotcopy setup for openttd? 18:22:21 <TL|Away> and you can have servers that requires a rating of 1500+ ;) 18:22:42 <TL|Away> Patrick`: we have had a mirror between 2 SVN servers, but that was a 100% custom made thingy :) 18:22:47 <Patrick`> damn 18:22:52 <Patrick`> rsync it is 18:23:14 <TL|Away> I suggest just not to use it ;) 18:23:24 <TL|Away> Patrick`: the other solution is what I did with something else for a while: 18:23:40 <TL|Away> make a post-commit script on your end, make a diff of the last commit, and send it to the other end like it was a new commit 18:23:43 <TL|Away> same log 18:23:45 <TL|Away> same author 18:23:53 <TL|Away> then it looks like they are kept in sync 18:23:58 <TL|Away> while in fact it is a re-commit 18:24:07 <TL|Away> downside is that it can break pretty easily :) 18:25:48 <Patrick`> son of a bitch 18:25:56 <Patrick`> I can't rsync on top of the sourceforge repositories 18:26:03 <Patrick`> it's a one-way rsync 18:26:17 <Patrick`> so if they get maliciously boned, it trickles back to me 18:27:14 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [i=johekr@p54B737B8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:27:15 <TL|Away> so use my post-commit idea ;) 18:27:22 <TL|Away> you can also do it on pre-commit level 18:27:38 <TL|Away> in fact, that last one was how our lovely svnmirror worked :) 18:27:38 * peter1138 ponders munging pools 18:27:44 <TL|Away> pools rules :) 18:27:49 *** ukdmbfan [n=mattward@cpc5-cbly1-0-0-cust331.glfd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 18:27:52 <TL|Away> reminds me, blathijs, how did your rewrite of them go? :) 18:28:00 <peter1138> TL|Away: adding a function pointer to clean up blocks 18:28:09 <blathijs> TL|Away: it's finished-ish, but broken 18:28:18 <blathijs> and probably needs a bunch of updating :-) 18:28:18 <peter1138> TL|Away: cos i'm naughty and use allocated memory in a pool 18:28:45 <TL|Away> peter1138: so free it yourself outside the pool ;) Hehehehe :p 18:28:49 <TL|Away> blathijs: why is it broken? 18:28:55 <Born_Acorn> peter1138, how close is newstations to completion? 18:29:09 <peter1138> TL|Away: it seems best to do it this way 18:29:17 <peter1138> TL|Away: then it gets freed when the pool is cleaned up 18:29:26 <TL|Away> peter1138: so add it :p 18:29:26 <blathijs> TL|Away: because it doesn't work ;-) 18:29:27 <TL|Away> hehehehe 18:29:32 <blathijs> haven't spent a lot of time debugging yet 18:29:34 <TL|Away> peter1138: abusing is always a way to go :) 18:29:42 <TL|Away> blathijs: hehe, k k :) Was just wondering :) 18:29:44 <peter1138> :( 18:30:01 <blathijs> peter1138: what are you doing then? 18:30:24 <TL|Away> peter1138: make it clean, and nobody will ever know :) 18:30:33 <TL|Away> We did that enough with pools :) 18:31:00 <Patrick`> how nice, a 403 when I commit 18:31:08 <peter1138> blathijs: something like Station *st; st->foo = calloc(bar, sizeof(*foo)); 18:31:24 <TL|Away> Patrick`: lol 18:32:10 <TL|Away> peter1138: an item-free-callback isn't a bad addition to the pool-system ;) 18:32:18 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-156-245.vodafone-net.de] has quit ["muss wech"] 18:32:47 <Patrick`> shower of idiots 18:32:50 <Patrick`> yes, yes, I'll just use http 18:32:53 <Patrick`> *https 18:32:58 <Patrick`> not, say, oh, I dunno, SSH 18:33:05 <Patrick`> like anyone with a fucking BRAIN 18:33:21 <TL|Away> Welcome to SourceForge 18:33:31 <TL|Away> we provide free services for OpenSource projects 18:33:35 <TL|Away> just we made it as hard as possible 18:33:42 <TL|Away> so we don't have to do that much work 18:33:44 <Patrick`> fuck it, I'll run my own 18:33:53 <TL|Away> take our layout, it is fucked, unclear, and you for sure get lost 18:34:04 <TL|Away> so don't talk about our CVS, which is as slow as my 100 MHz 18:34:13 <TL|Away> (maybe they host it on my 100 MHz :s) 18:34:27 *** egladil [n=egladil@duregladil.csbnet.se] has joined #openttd 18:34:29 <TL|Away> or don't even try to spell the world 'search', because we for sure supply you the worst interface EVAH! 18:34:32 <peter1138> TL|Away: hmm, i've done it as a block clean up 18:34:33 <Patrick`> ooi, know somewhere better? 18:34:38 <TL|Away> (sorry, I started to hate SF :)) 18:34:45 <Patrick`> I'm looking at berlios and freshmeat 18:34:45 <TL|Away> Patrick`: yeah, I host my own shit ;) 18:34:51 <peter1138> so the called function has a loop for all items in that block 18:34:54 <Patrick`> I'd do that but I got a hard cap on bandwidth 18:34:58 <peter1138> (same as allocation) 18:34:59 <TL|Away> berlios gives me the same layout as SF :p 18:35:01 <Patrick`> it's not like anyone'll check it out any time ever 18:35:05 <Patrick`> but still 18:35:10 <TL|Away> Patrick`: is it a free, open source, project? 18:35:47 <Patrick`> yep 18:36:33 *** tokai|mdlx [n=tokai@p54B84FE9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."] 18:37:08 <TL|Away> I can host some for you if you like 18:37:22 *** Scia [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:37:38 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B84FE9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:37:49 <Patrick`> I'm afraid I'd be a rather cantankerous and impossible client 18:38:05 <Patrick`> what I really want is a way to host it on my own machine on a dedicated fiber link 18:38:17 <TL|Away> fiberlink, lol 18:38:27 <TL|Away> I just took some servers and placed them in a rack around the AIX 18:38:30 <TL|Away> works nicely ;) 18:38:34 *** ukdmbfan [n=mattward@cpc5-cbly1-0-0-cust331.glfd.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 18:38:38 <Patrick`> oh, and they added another 7 revisions 18:38:39 <TL|Away> !whatis cantankerous 18:38:42 <Patrick`> for NO REASON WHATSOEVER 18:38:42 <jmp_ghli> >TL|Away> Cantankerous \Can*tan"ker*ous\, a. Perverse; contentious; ugly; malicious. -- , adv. -- , n. | The cantankerous old maiden aunt.--Thackeray. Cantar cantankerous adj 1: stubbornly obstructive and unwilling to cooperate; "unions...have never been as bloody-minded about demarcation as the shipbuilders"- Spectator 2: having a difficult and contrary disposition; "a cantankerous and venomous-tongued old lady"- Dorothy Sayers 60 Mo 18:38:56 <Patrick`> well, I use it in the context of grumbly 18:38:56 <TL|Away> hehehehehehe 18:39:00 <Patrick`> and difficult to please 18:39:09 <TL|Away> you won't be the first client ;) 18:39:10 <TL|Away> hehe :p 18:39:47 <TL|Away> I can offer you a VPS, with around 10 GB a month or something 18:39:58 <TL|Away> (100 kbit/sec on 95% rule, you do the math :p) 18:40:18 <Born_Acorn> a dictionary bot? :o 18:40:30 <TL|Away> !slap Born_Acorn 18:40:31 <jmp_ghli> >TL|Away> truelight gives Born_Acorn a t-shirt with a text printed on it: "i am a big red lollipop". 18:40:31 *** RichK67 [n=RichK67@194.164.100.143] has joined #openttd 18:40:35 <TL|Away> much more then a dictonary bot :) 18:40:36 <hylje> much else bot 18:40:38 <peter1138> hmm 18:40:41 <Born_Acorn> A big bot. 18:40:42 <peter1138> !newstations Born_Acorn 18:40:49 <TL|Away> !!truelight 18:40:51 <jmp_ghli> >TL|Away> I am truelight .|. 18:41:08 <Born_Acorn> no its peter1138! newstations! 18:41:11 <stillunknown> is there a place were it's listed which files should be map accessor free? 18:41:13 <peter1138> oh! 18:41:20 <RichK67> TL: i have those webpages ready, if DV is around to verify them 18:41:27 <Born_Acorn> and peter1138, how close is newstations to completion? I must know! 18:41:41 <TL|Away> RichK67: good! He knows how to add them, so ;) 18:41:50 <peter1138> well... 18:41:51 <Brianetta> I believe Peter said that it was 3K per station away 18:42:04 <TL|Away> !calc 100 * 3600 * 24 / 10 / 1024 18:42:05 <jmp_ghli> >TL|Away> 843.750000 18:42:17 <Sacro> thats not far at light speed 18:42:19 <TL|Away> hmmz, I can't calculate :( 18:42:19 <RichK67> hmm... thats maggie's cost 18:42:23 <Born_Acorn> !make me dinner 18:42:26 <Born_Acorn> :p 18:42:43 <hylje> !tentacles 18:42:47 <TL|Away> ah, forgot a factor 30 :) 18:42:47 <peter1138> TL|Away: hence the malloc ;) 18:42:52 <peter1138> so it's not 3KB every time 18:42:52 <TL|Away> 30 GB :) 18:43:13 <TL|Away> lol, 3kb per station 18:43:14 <Born_Acorn> Well....? 18:43:15 <TL|Away> anyway 18:43:17 <TL|Away> got to go :) 18:43:18 <TL|Away> bye all :) 18:43:20 <TL|Away> have fun! 18:43:22 <MeusH> cya 18:43:23 <Born_Acorn> bye! 18:43:25 <MeusH> !MeusH 18:43:25 <peter1138> exactly 18:43:32 <MeusH> !!MeusH 18:43:33 <jmp_ghli> >MeusH> Extra command !!MeusH is not registered. .|. 18:43:35 <Sacro> see you later TL 18:44:02 <Born_Acorn> exactly what? I must know! 18:44:26 <Born_Acorn> So I can finish the glass station for it. I am lazy also. 18:46:11 <Patrick`> what's the cool thing that lets you browse an svn repo graphically? 18:47:14 *** Eddi|zuHause [i=johekr@p54B76503.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:47:17 <Patrick`> and, can I also use that to let people check out over http? 18:47:23 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B84FE9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."] 18:48:03 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B84FE9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:48:31 <Patrick`> aga 18:48:37 <Patrick`> the answer is "yes" and "yes" 18:48:53 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4471 /trunk/ (12 files): - Pools: Add a facility for calling a custom function during pool block clean up. 18:51:16 <RichK67> wow - OTTD has done 1000 revs in just over 10 weeks 18:52:12 <Born_Acorn> Thats slow. A planes propellor does much much more than that in 10 minutes! 18:52:18 <MiHaMiX> wow 18:52:24 <MiHaMiX> Born_Acorn: lol :P 18:52:34 <Born_Acorn> :p 18:52:43 <RichK67> i created the last IN on 28/1 at r3464... we're now r4471 19:00:12 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B84FE9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."] 19:00:59 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B84FE9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:05:44 *** BJH_ [n=chatzill@e176099042.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 19:05:49 *** Aankhen`` [n=pockled@203.101.12.215] has quit ["Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers [Time wasted online: 11hrs 32mins 45secs]"] 19:06:55 <Darkvater> WHY OH WHY do people send me BMP?????!! screenshots? 19:07:04 <Darkvater> OMG he just sent them again but now in PCX 19:07:05 <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: same situation here :D 19:07:09 <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: LOL :D 19:07:13 *** Cyberjunkie [n=cyberjun@202.177.150.67] has joined #openttd 19:09:07 <Darkvater> 20:15 < TL|Away> I guess Darkvater should fix it :) 19:09:13 <Darkvater> you broke it ;) 19:09:30 <Vornicus> because that's how they're output by the thing, if you don't have libpng when you build. 19:09:46 <MeusH> Celestar, thanks for my new signature :D 19:09:51 <Vornicus> Actually I'm not sure but I think it's set to BMP when you install. 19:09:55 <Patrick`> argh 19:09:55 <MeusH> you rocked :D 19:10:00 <Patrick`> sourceforge, you bunch of wangler 19:10:32 <Darkvater> hehe my mother's awesome 19:10:58 <Darkvater> she's a total computer noob so I helped her out. She was surfing with opera and I tell her to scroll down on the webpage 19:11:16 <Darkvater> she asks, with what? So I tell her with the scrollwheel on the mouse 19:11:37 <Darkvater> at that point she starts to look intensively at the screen looking and looking, but not finding and she finally goes: 19:11:42 <Darkvater> "I can't find my mouse" 19:11:57 <Darkvater> I almost fell from laughing 19:12:03 <peter1138> :/ 19:12:27 <Darkvater> and just a note: she does know what a mouse is and how to operate it 19:12:50 <Darkvater> I think concentration somehow just disappeared 19:15:06 <peter1138> bollocks 19:15:22 <peter1138> forgot to save the updated newstationsgui 19:16:44 *** Cheery [i=Henri@a81-197-60-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:17:37 <Darkvater> did you delete them already? ;) 19:17:53 <Darkvater> cause I think if you did, we would be rid of Born_Acorn for good 19:18:01 <Darkvater> he'd drop dead on the spot from the shock 19:18:52 <peter1138> nah, got an older version, with the params in the window data 19:20:06 <RichK67> DV: hi 19:21:10 <izhirahider> Darkvater: Make PNG the default screenshot bitmap extension for OpenTTD? 19:21:27 <RichK67> izhira: i second that :) 19:22:35 <blathijs> isn't it already? 19:23:12 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176116132.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:23:21 <peter1138> right, newstationsgui updated and saved 19:23:28 <peter1138> now to combine 19:24:50 <RichK67> Darkvater: ping 19:25:36 <Brianetta> "Throbbing" is such a versatile adjective. Its meaning is the same, but what it emotes can vary wildly, depending on what is throbbing. 19:25:41 <Brianetta> "Throbbing head" - bad 19:25:47 <Brianetta> "Throbbing heart" - good 19:25:54 <Brianetta> "Throbbin loins" - sexeh 19:26:03 <Sacro> throbbing bankth - illegal 19:26:08 <Brianetta> (: 19:26:11 <RichK67> LOL 19:26:29 * Sacro is here purely to amuse 19:26:39 <Brianetta> That needs bashing 19:26:43 <valhallasw> to amuse or to be amused Sacro"? 19:26:48 * Brianetta goes to BASH it 19:26:52 <Sacro> valhallasw: bits of both 19:27:06 <valhallasw> I was stunned by the large amounts of people that react to ironic jokes 19:27:07 <Sacro> Brianetta: thanks for telling us all, but i thought u had a women there normally? 19:27:23 <valhallasw> in a complete warez channel, someone asked what xbox modchip was the best 19:27:30 <Brianetta> Sacro: Throbbing loins. 19:27:33 <valhallasw> so I reacted: "Does this look like a warez channel to you?" 19:27:53 <Darkvater> RichK67: . 19:27:55 <Brianetta> Bash'd - with my typo corrected (: 19:28:12 <Brianetta> http://bash.org/?641338 (once moderatoed) 19:28:13 <Sacro> valhallasw: does a warez channel look any different? 19:28:18 <valhallasw> :? 19:28:46 *** e1ko_ [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:29:02 <RichK67> hi DV... i have some web pages to support TL's compile farm build of the Mini IN... can you test them in the OTTD environment? (its basically the nighlty.php modified to do mini_IN instead) 19:29:08 *** e1ko_ [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 19:29:08 <Sacro> presumably everyones running illegal copies of mIRC 19:29:13 *** e1ko_ is now known as e1ko 19:29:20 <Darkvater> so what if openttd is built without PNG support? Doing it as default would most likely even crash the game 19:29:39 <Sacro> Darkvater: default to png if its available 19:29:40 <peter1138> yay, the pool clean up works :D 19:29:53 <peter1138> and so does the gui 19:30:02 <Darkvater> Sacro: too much work ;) 19:30:12 <RichK67> lol - peter1138 is the pool guy ;) 19:30:18 <blathijs> peter1138: what do you need the cleanup thing for? 19:30:24 <Darkvater> RichK67: gimme 10-15 19:30:29 <RichK67> np 19:30:30 <Darkvater> this requires taking a shower 19:30:33 <RichK67> ty 19:30:36 <peter1138> blathijs: newstations 19:30:42 <Darkvater> if 'test' shows up, redirect him to me please ;) 19:30:52 <vondel> complements for the persons doing the new pathfinding: it spotted an error 1000-1500 tiles away (no exit on the center railway of a 2x2 mainline) 19:31:07 <blathijs> vondel: ack :-) 19:31:12 <blathijs> ;-) 19:31:47 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has quit [] 19:32:04 <vondel> after a long time of no playing, i started playing the biggest size map 19:32:16 <vondel> lots of improvements 19:32:33 *** MrRexxie [n=rexxars@ti131310a080-5398.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 19:32:38 <stillunknown> i though YAPF wasn't rail yet, or do you mean NPF? 19:33:05 <vondel> btw: what's the best way to send around 200 trains to depots, so i can start upgrading the network to mono ? 19:33:23 <vondel> stillunknown: where can i see that? 19:33:25 <Sacro> vondel: patch in dev forum 19:33:58 *** DjViper [i=djviper@mishima-empire.h-nett.no] has quit ["Client Exiting"] 19:33:59 <vondel> i've not applied extra patches, it's r4454 from svn 19:34:07 <stillunknown> by the looks of your responce you mean NPF (patch option New Global Pathfinding iirc) 19:34:59 <vondel> new global pathfinding is toggled on, so you've guessed correctly 19:35:40 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@81.213.70.16] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:36:27 <vondel> but, is there an automated way to send everything (almost all trains are on the same big network) to the nearest depot ? 19:36:59 <Scia> not if you haven't applied a patch 19:37:13 *** DjViper [i=djviper@mishima-empire.h-nett.no] has joined #Openttd 19:37:19 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 19:37:31 <stillunknown> no, but there is a patch in the development forum which may do what you want 19:37:50 <vondel> k, then'll do it the oldfashioned way: place depots on the main routes, so they'll drive into the depots by themselves, and after a few minutes everyone is in a depot 19:38:02 <Scia> but you can make it fun by destroying all trains by letting them cash into each other :) 19:38:48 <vondel> that's the way i did it before drag-train-to-destroy-train 19:39:11 <vondel> get all trains in the same depot, and start pushing lots of 'ignore red sign' buttons :) 19:39:30 <Scia> :D 19:40:13 <peter1138> bah, why does it take so long to compile 19:41:22 <stillunknown> ottd? 19:41:47 <RichK67> peter1138: because when you fiddle with too many things, it has to think... "how the **** do i sort out this mess?" 19:41:57 <peter1138> troo 19:42:17 <RichK67> :) 19:45:54 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B84FE9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."] 19:46:03 *** Sionide [n=sphinx@cpc4-hem12-0-0-cust246.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 19:46:39 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B84FE9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:48:50 <MeusH> Developers: Is property 7 implemented? http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=431706#431706 19:49:07 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B84FE9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:50:05 *** Rexxie [n=rexxars@ti131310a080-5398.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:50:37 <peter1138> yes 19:50:44 <peter1138> mostly 19:50:57 <peter1138> oh 19:50:57 <peter1138> no 19:51:00 <peter1138> vehicle property 7, hehe 19:51:04 <peter1138> i was thinking action 7 19:52:55 <vondel> what's the 'close all windows' key ? 19:53:40 <peter1138> delete? 19:53:51 <peter1138> yeah 19:54:03 <Sacro> ctrl-c ? 19:54:03 <vondel> thanks 19:54:04 <RichK67> shift delete if you have some on sticky 19:54:12 <vondel> delete did the trick 19:55:13 *** DJ_Mirage [n=djmirage@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:56:10 <MeusH> Anyone, suggestions for measurement tool are welcome http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24551&start=20 19:56:17 *** MeusH is now known as MeusH[brb] 19:59:09 *** Scia [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:01:13 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has quit ["Odletam do paralelniho vesmiru..."] 20:02:44 <C-Otto> what is that? windows only? 20:02:50 *** Mucht|zZz [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit ["I'll be back!"] 20:05:48 <Darkvater> TL|Away: ping 20:07:49 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B84FE9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:10:38 *** tokai|noir is now known as tokai|tv 20:12:09 *** egladil [n=egladil@duregladil.csbnet.se] has quit [] 20:12:48 <MeusH[brb]> C-Otto: No, there is a patch also, isn't there? 20:12:50 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54946DFA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["n"] 20:12:56 *** egladil [n=egladil@duregladil.csbnet.se] has joined #openttd 20:12:58 *** MeusH[brb] is now known as MeusH 20:13:49 <C-Otto> ah, i see 20:13:51 <C-Otto> and what is that? :> 20:14:01 <C-Otto> ah, page 2 of 2. 20:14:30 <hylje> :> 20:16:27 *** Cipri [n=cipri@a47034.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [] 20:18:01 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-173-25.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:18:09 <Darkvater> he 20:18:14 <Darkvater> Tue Apr 18 22:18:00 CEST 2006 20:18:16 <Darkvater> for 20:18:24 <Darkvater> <binding name="translator" value="translator:date,pattern=dd MMMM yyyy"/> 20:18:29 <Darkvater> public Date getDate() throws Exception { 20:18:29 <Darkvater> return new Date(); 20:18:33 <Darkvater> } 20:18:46 <Darkvater> shit 20:18:48 <Darkvater> wrong window 20:18:56 <Patrick`> lol 20:18:57 <hylje> zOMG 20:19:38 <Patrick`> "Made insignificant cosmetic changes to cover up the previous commit message." 20:19:44 <Patrick`> aah, commit messages 20:19:55 <Patrick`> I migrated my personal-only svn repo to a sourceforge account 20:20:04 <Patrick`> for quite frankly batshit insane reasons 20:20:15 *** stillunknown [n=unknown@82-168-177-167.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [] 20:21:57 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has quit ["Whoopsy"] 20:22:53 <Celestar> hi peops 20:23:08 <Darkvater> 'ello 20:23:09 <MeusH> hi Celestar 20:26:34 *** |VillageIdiot| [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:27:09 *** MeusH is now known as MeusH[away] 20:30:14 *** kujeger_II is now known as kujeger 20:32:32 <Celestar> hmpf. 20:32:47 <Celestar> aviation-speek is sometimes worse than 1337-speak 20:33:25 <Celestar> "selection of ac ess feed push btn switch to altn, in accordance with ECAM SOP" 20:34:07 *** Qrrbrbirlbel [i=Q@p54A7E0B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:38:29 *** Qrrbrbirlbel__ [i=Q@p54A7D1CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:41:46 <hylje> jargon is fun 20:44:34 <Belugas> when doing : svn merge -r REV1:HEAD reference_dir, should REV1 be the last revision or the revision that branch was made from? 20:45:18 <Celestar> hm? 20:45:43 <Celestar> Belugas: if you do a merge from from R1:R2 then the next merge is from R2, not R2+1 20:45:54 <Celestar> because svn merge foo N:N does nothing. 20:46:18 <Celestar> hope that answers your question 20:46:50 <Belugas> Hu? Ok... Say barnch/32bpp. Last time it has been synched, it was with r4243. 20:47:07 <Belugas> So if I need to sych to trunk/head, 20:47:09 <Celestar> then you start with 4243. 20:47:27 <Belugas> That's what i've done... 20:47:36 <Belugas> Ok... So there must be something else 20:47:42 <Belugas> Thanks Celestar :) 20:47:48 <Celestar> maybe you missed stuff in the first merge? ;) 20:48:25 <Celestar> bah this MME"L" is a whole 300 pages 20:48:25 <Belugas> yeah, quite a possibility :) 20:48:45 <Belugas> but, for once, it would not be me :D 20:48:49 <Belugas> Or so i think... 20:48:49 <Celestar> lol 20:48:56 <Celestar> how are accessors doing?;) 20:49:20 <Belugas> I've got a new commit for industries coming, 20:49:29 <Celestar> nice 20:49:33 <Belugas> but i'm somehow taking a break on it 20:49:41 <Celestar> ah? 20:49:47 <Belugas> since I've promised peter1138 action 04 20:50:02 <Belugas> and we're dealing with this at the mometn 20:50:33 <Belugas> he needs this for a certain station project. But I don't know waht it is really for ;) 20:50:39 <Celestar> ok 20:50:55 <Celestar> I'll not do any openttd coding till next wednesday :( 20:51:05 <Belugas> that is tomorrow :) 20:51:31 <Belugas> shit... it is next week for you, since you're already wednesday :) 20:52:14 *** Qrrbrbirlbel_ [i=Q@p54A7E0B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:52:36 <glx> no we're still tuesday 20:52:51 <Celestar> yes we are 20:52:57 <Patrick`> mmm, tuesday 20:53:00 <Celestar> and I'm an aviator. I live UTC 20:53:05 <Belugas> ? 20:53:09 <Belugas> ho... true... 20:53:24 <Belugas> heheh..oups 20:53:36 <Celestar> cu 20:53:54 <Belugas> good week :) 20:57:16 *** Qrrbrbirlbel [i=Q@p54A7E0B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:57:53 *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone 20:58:08 <Belugas_Gone> Good night evryone 21:01:06 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 21:02:15 <peter1138> hello 21:02:28 <hylje> olleh 21:02:57 <peter1138> hmm 21:07:10 *** kujeger [n=kujeger@host-81-191-145-149.bluecom.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:11:31 *** MeusH[away] is now known as MeusH 21:11:55 <XeryusTC> why did i misread kujeger for "kut neger"? 21:14:19 <MiHaMiX> err... 21:14:22 <MiHaMiX> svn is down? 21:14:48 <Darkvater> works here 21:15:22 <MiHaMiX> hmm 21:15:23 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B84FE9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:15:26 <Darkvater> hmm r4470 is kinda incomplete 21:15:38 <Darkvater> where are the pointer changes for settings.c? 21:17:57 <CIA-3> miham * r4472 /trunk/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs): WebTranslator2 commit2 system precheck failed, fix in progress 21:18:37 <MiHaMiX> Total percentage: 21:18:44 <MiHaMiX> 87% 9153 bad strings out of 72576 strings (2592 strings / language) 21:30:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... someone screwed up with the german translation... 21:31:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> STR_UNITS_VOLUME_SHORT_SI has "m?" instead of "m³" 21:32:07 <MeusH> Anyone in commit mood? A bugfix I took this afternoon, discussed here 21:32:08 <MeusH> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/90 21:32:28 <MeusH> nosparks2.patch and nosparks3.patch are almostthe same 21:32:49 <MeusH> nosparks3 is more compatibile with future and more electrified railtypes 21:33:06 <MeusH> while _some_ may say that nosparks2 runs better on slower machines 21:33:23 <Patrick`> when was the last time we cared ;) 21:33:27 <MeusH> and this is next "short" patch from me 21:33:31 <MeusH> 2 lines 21:33:37 <MeusH> easy as pie, svn merge blah blah 21:33:39 <MeusH> :) 21:33:47 <glx> nospark3 is a general thing, nospark2 is electric specific 21:35:48 <MeusH> exacly 21:40:38 *** CobraA1 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:40:42 *** tokai|tv [n=tokai@p54B84FE9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."] 21:41:23 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.stb.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [] 21:41:50 *** CobraA1 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:42:51 <KUDr> hmm : <Darkvater> where are the pointer changes for settings.c? <-- what changes? 21:46:33 <MeusH> From tt-forums.net: 21:46:42 <MeusH> By Loop: Firstly one comment - OMG!!!111oneone - how many patches there are for OTTD! 21:46:58 <MeusH> Embarassing: From: Poznan, Poland 21:47:59 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-6310.bb.online.no] has quit ["Bunchie!"] 21:48:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> hehe ;) 21:52:30 *** Cyberjunkie is now known as Cyber|ZzZ 21:54:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> there is something odd with the "cannot find path" warning 21:54:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have some trains that are going almost all over the map 21:55:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> usually, because they are travelling that long, they cried that they cannot find path short before they arrived 21:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> i wanted to get rid of that message, so i built some waypoints inbetween, and assigned them to the trains' order list 21:56:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> but that warning is still shown, as if the waypoints are not counted for progress 21:56:58 <KUDr> Eddi|zuHause2: it probably counts from 'last station visit' 21:57:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but it should not... 21:57:20 <KUDr> heh 21:57:50 <KUDr> there are so many things that should work differently.. 21:58:05 <KUDr> like in real life 21:58:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> certainly ;) 21:58:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> but this has nothing to do with real life 21:58:55 <KUDr> it's simulator 21:59:06 <KUDr> so it is quite realistic 21:59:59 <TSC> Eddi: Do you mean the "train is lost" message? 22:00:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes... if that is what it is called in english ;) 22:00:36 <TSC> You can change how soon that appears 22:00:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> sure, but that is not the point 22:00:49 <KUDr> true 22:00:55 <MiHaMiX> ok 22:01:00 <MiHaMiX> good night folks 22:01:05 <KUDr> gn 22:01:34 <TSC> Counting the waypoints is a good idea too 22:03:20 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0/2006013012]"] 22:08:40 *** Cyber|ZzZ [n=cyberjun@202.177.150.67] has left #openttd [] 22:12:08 *** CobraA1 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:14:09 *** CobraA1 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:20:02 *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bed 22:20:09 <Xeryus|bed> gn 22:23:15 *** Qrrbrbirlbel__ [i=Q@p54A7D1CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["http://mir.ist-langweilig.de/oh_man.jpg/"] 22:23:38 <black_Nightmare> just wondering but why would the 'replace train' dialog not let me replace asiastar with an older unit (eg TIM) ? 22:23:38 *** meeps [n=Azio@host86-139-88-57.range86-139.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 22:25:15 <glx> can you buy a TIM in a depot 22:26:09 * Born_Acorn drops dead from shock 22:26:28 <Born_Acorn> just as Darkvater prophecised 22:26:29 <black_Nightmare> yeah and whats worst is the tim has much better reliability so I want use these instead :p 22:26:38 <black_Nightmare> (server map is set to normal breakdown so...it helps a lot) 22:26:49 <black_Nightmare> there's like 80 so difficult to do a manual replace at all lol 22:29:06 <Patrick`> it bloody well ought to 22:30:15 <TSC> The TIM is probably obsolete 22:30:40 <glx> but he can buy it manually in depot 22:30:52 <meeps> manual replace 22:30:52 <TSC> Oh ): 22:30:53 <meeps> ouch :D 22:31:04 <meeps> i wouldnt want to be the fat controller on that day 22:31:10 <meeps> :-) 22:32:48 <black_Nightmare> tsc.... 22:33:05 <black_Nightmare> the asiastar has 83% reliability and the tim has 97% 22:33:13 <black_Nightmare> I bloody want these 80 trains to be tim's instead :p 22:33:44 <black_Nightmare> weirdly is it'll let me select to replace asiastar with dash/sh125 .. but not EVEN with the sh40/tim units 22:34:06 <black_Nightmare> at least a few 'months' ago I killed one sh40 unit for a tim instead tho :p 22:34:45 <MeusH> cya 22:34:45 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit ["Goodbye"] 22:35:20 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498D37E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ciao"] 22:35:45 <RichK67> it sounds like it is a diesel only depot... try swapping the train in an electric depot 22:36:22 <black_Nightmare> I figured out why it was doing that meh.. 22:36:42 <black_Nightmare> I just had to 'stop replacing' on the greyed-out tim engine (left list) and finally had the option to replace asiastar with tim's 22:36:43 <black_Nightmare> weird 22:38:47 <RichK67> ah - that is to stop cyclical replacing... asia replaces tim replaces asia .... very expensive ;) 22:39:46 <glx> eh it was possible to do that before 22:40:10 <black_Nightmare> well anyway....trains seem to run better now (just a tad slower but doesn't matter) .. :-D 22:40:34 <black_Nightmare> 54 TIM and 34 AsiaStar so far... waiting for the 34 to go down to zero 22:41:45 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498D37E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:45:15 <Patrick`> I wonder how big a 4-way cloverleaf would be if you actually tried to adhere to realistic acceleration 22:46:16 *** jong [n=jong@flipflip.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:46:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> what's a cloverleaf? 22:48:09 <Born_Acorn> http://home.c2i.net/cecilieTT/clovrlif.jpg 22:48:31 <Born_Acorn> "four leaf clover" style. 22:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> ah... "kleeblatt" 22:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> who uses such a thing anyway? 22:49:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> it blocks like hell 22:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> wääääh... HEAD broke my savegame :( 22:50:54 <black_Nightmare> doesn't block...if you noticed the escape lanes 22:51:05 <black_Nightmare> train going into curve are already off any mainlines 23:00:56 <Patrick`> it's not that it blocks 23:01:02 <Patrick`> it's just that it has ass speeds 23:01:28 <Patrick`> plus, you need on-ramps that let your trains build up speed 23:01:37 <Patrick`> better just to make an untidy mesh of tunnels 23:01:50 <Patrick`> and then, perfect curves every time 23:02:00 <Patrick`> or only ever have half junctions 23:04:17 *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp85-141-200-95.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:06:49 <DaleStan> Belugas_Gone: Yes, but it probably won't have the desired result. The only thing the feature byte does for action 4s is to skip it if the associated new* is off. So the second definition will replace the first for all uses unless the new* corresponding to the second's feature byte is off. 23:07:30 <Belugas_Gone> thanks DaleStan :) 23:15:08 *** Osyluth [n=chatzill@majestic.anu.edu.au] has joined #openttd 23:22:10 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:27:22 *** jong_ [n=jong@flipflip.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 23:35:27 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-209-145.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 23:35:43 <Sacro> evening all 23:41:14 <RichK67> lo sacro 23:42:44 <Sacro> lo RichK67, up to much? 23:43:41 <RichK67> nah - im too tired tonite... started my ottd website tho :) 23:44:06 <RichK67> http://ottd.rkhosting.co.uk/ 23:44:49 <RichK67> i want to collect together all the Mini IN source patches, with short description, and link to authors 23:45:22 <RichK67> and of course, my patches will have fuller descriptions 23:46:20 <Patrick`> ooh, ooh 23:46:25 <Patrick`> do the signal gui 23:46:41 <Sacro> do what to it? 23:46:59 <RichK67> make it work with pbs? 23:48:06 <Sacro> hmm, i could have a go at something i suppose 23:48:22 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has quit ["<volcone> tycker inte man borde få idrotta i skolan, eftersom man springer så jävulskt mkt i wow"] 23:48:30 <RichK67> btw - sacro - what are your patches?? 23:48:55 <Sacro> ive only done a daylength patch, and updated the signal gui 23:49:02 <Sacro> oh, and looking into a loading patch 23:49:33 <RichK67> do you know original sig gui author? or have you picked up responsibility? 23:50:04 <Born_Acorn> wasn't it Hackykid? 23:50:10 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498D37E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:50:16 <Patrick`> yep 23:50:21 <Patrick`> and no 23:50:40 <Born_Acorn> Is he the newest Developer to fall off the face of the planet? 23:50:49 <Patrick`> Sacro: also, I think Celestar was doing a bit on the siggui, if you'd make sure you two aren't overlapping 23:50:53 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd ["bye"] 23:51:00 <Patrick`> I do so hate to see repetition 23:51:11 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498D042.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:51:16 <Born_Acorn> wasn't it Hackykid? 23:51:23 <Born_Acorn> Is he the newest Developer to fall off the face of the planet? 23:51:35 <Patrick`> yep 23:51:37 <Patrick`> he fell 23:51:45 <Patrick`> and it was his patch originally 23:51:58 <Born_Acorn> wasn't it Hackykid? 23:52:00 <Born_Acorn> Is he the newest Developer to fall off the face of the planet? 23:52:10 <Born_Acorn> (<Patrick`> I do so hate to see repetition) 23:52:42 <Patrick`> sheesh 23:52:53 <Patrick`> ok, the second time I just assumed it was 'cause I ignored you the first time 23:53:04 <Patrick`> I was intending to answer 23:53:11 <Patrick`> you derailed my sarcasm detectors 23:53:12 <Sacro> i dont recall celestar doing anything 23:53:23 <Patrick`> it was in irc 23:53:26 <Patrick`> I bugged him about it 23:54:00 <Born_Acorn> I remember screaming "REMIND" at Hackykid every day until he finished it. 23:54:01 <Sacro> oh 23:54:16 <Patrick`> Celestar: talk to Sacro about the signal gui 23:54:22 <Patrick`> Sacro: talk to celestar about the signal gui 23:54:30 <Patrick`> I'm off to sleep 23:54:43 <Sacro> lol 23:55:00 <Born_Acorn> Patrick`: talk to Celestar and Sacro about talking to Sacro and Celestar and the signal gui 23:58:52 *** Born_Acorn [n=bornacor@ACCA4282.ipt.aol.com] has quit []