Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:15 <lolman> Banshee or Rhythmbox...hmm 00:03:07 <Sacro> guile 00:03:27 <lolman> ... 00:04:43 *** Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-179-181.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 00:06:35 <Arkus> openttd related: does anyone have a pattern they use for building stupidly long continuous passenger train lines? 00:07:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> err... what? 00:07:43 <Arkus> basically i'm building a hugely long passenger train line (two terminus stations with a few dozen intermediate stations) 00:07:49 <Sacro> heh 00:07:56 <Arkus> and i just wondered if anyone had any best practises or similar 00:08:02 *** caladan [~caladan@161-be2-18.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:08:03 <Arkus> (other than don't do what i'm doing) 00:08:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> i generally go with what's more pretty 00:08:34 <lolman> Everyone's strategy is different 00:08:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> and my passenger trains have usually 3 or 4 stations 00:09:00 * Sacro goes for the 4-4-2 strategy 00:09:08 <lolman> Not football, Sacro 00:09:15 <Sacro> nope 00:09:16 <Sacro> not football 00:09:28 <Arkus> i'm sure that's code for something 00:09:30 <Arkus> 4 tile long trains? 00:09:37 <Arkus> or something? 00:09:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> 4-4-2... that is a strange engine ;) 00:09:56 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-164-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:10:22 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 00:10:27 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: yes, it is 00:10:28 <Arkus> i wouldn't know - i'm ignorant and love plastic trains ;) 00:10:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> who builds such things? 00:11:01 <Arkus> siemens desiros are pretty plastic (i follow the real things to an extent :$) 00:11:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> their tractive effort must head towards zero 00:11:01 * Sacro falls over laughing http://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/40700/1171920892.jpg 00:11:40 <Arkus> Sacro- nice:) 00:11:56 <Arkus> Eddi|zuHause2: the train company near where i live uses siemens desiro trains now, very much plastic interiors 00:12:00 <lolman> lol Sacro 00:12:45 <Arkus> Eddi|zuHause2: they accelerate at about 1m/s² for a 12 coach fully laden train though 00:12:47 <Arkus> so they pull ;) 00:13:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> Arkus: i meant a 4-4-2 engine 00:13:12 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-141-227-31.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:13:14 <Arkus> i'm sorry - didn't realise 00:13:20 <Arkus> thought you were talking about my reference to plastic trains 00:13:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> 4 undriven wheels (2 axles), 4 driven wheels (2 axles) and 2 undriven wheels (1 axle) 00:13:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> means 2 driven axles vs. 3 undriven axles 00:14:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> so only around 40% of the mass is useable for traction 00:14:38 *** tokai|3 [~tokai@p54B8087F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:14:47 <Arkus> hmm, not a massive amount - you want a high middle number do you? 00:15:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> all newer engines (that i know of) have all axles driven 00:16:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> (that is possible, because they are mounted on a turnable element) 00:17:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> on steam engines, the driven axles (usually) could not be turned, because they had to be connected by rods 00:17:37 <Arkus> ah ok 00:17:55 <Arkus> but seeing as we use motors rather than steam, we can mount them seperately? 00:18:10 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80502.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 00:18:14 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 00:18:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> then they had 1 or 2 undriven turnable axles in front of them, to a) make the engine longer (bigger boiler) and b) drag the engine into the curve direction, to remove pressure off the outer rail 00:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> it has not much to do with using motors 00:19:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> rather the system how to transfer the force changed 00:20:15 <Arkus> ok 00:20:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> from rods to gears 00:21:18 <Bjarni> hmm 00:21:41 <Bjarni> talking about train technologies, are we? :) 00:21:51 <Bjarni> that's the main issue here? 00:21:58 <Arkus> at the moment 00:22:08 <Arkus> although unfortunately i have to go now, out late tomorrow evening 00:22:12 <Arkus> and work at 830am :( 00:22:19 <Arkus> (8 hrs till i start) 00:22:39 <Arkus> hopefully see everyone again soon (bit of an irc noob, will have to get some practise!) 00:23:26 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> so only around 40% of the mass is useable for traction <-- no. Steam locomotives tend to have uneven distribution of weight, so the axle pressure aren't the same for all axles 00:23:52 <Bjarni> I know of a 2-6-2 engine with 10 tons on each powered axle and 4 tons on each unpowered axle 00:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, that's why i said "around" 00:25:01 <Bjarni> so 60% of the axles are powered and they have like 79% of the weight 00:25:08 <Bjarni> that's not "around" 00:25:15 <Bjarni> there is a noteworthy difference 00:26:19 <Bjarni> usually leading and trailing trucks are added to "catch" the rails (specially in curves) to make the engine drive more stable 00:26:47 <Bjarni> since their task is to follow the track, the pressure on them do not have to be great 00:26:48 <Arkus> cya everyone 00:26:55 <Bjarni> in fact it shouldn't be 00:27:00 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:27:16 *** Arkus [~danielark@82.152.149.14] has quit [] 00:27:26 <Bjarni> having an enormous weight on the front axle hurts the tracks big time 00:27:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:15-inch_gauge_4-4-2_locomotive.jpg <- that is around what i imagined when i heard "4-4-2"... a big toy ;) 00:29:45 <Bjarni> http://www.toltecimages.com/trains/2460.jpg <-- it's a big toy alright 00:30:30 <Bjarni> http://www.hals.org/imageeng/crenshaw2.jpg <-- LOL. I see your "toy" point of view now :D 00:31:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Die Atlantic ist eine Übergangsform zwischen der Bauart American (2'B) und der Pacific (2'C1') und ist nur in vergleichsweise geringer Stückzahl gebaut worden, weil die Zugkraft der zwei Kuppelachsen bald nicht mehr ausreichte." <- pretty much supports my tractive effort point 00:32:25 <Bjarni> not really 00:33:57 <Bjarni> the point is that say you has 20 tons on each driver, then you have a total of 40 tons on the drivers. Since steam locomotives have a max traction of 20% of the weight on the drivers, it can pull max 0,2*40=8 tons 00:34:36 <Bjarni> adding a new axle (4-6-2 pacific), you can increase the weight on the drivers to 60 tons and hence give a traction of 12 tons 00:34:53 <Bjarni> and there is a don't care for the weight on the other axles 00:35:41 <Bjarni> however they learned that the leading 2 axle unpowered truck in combo with a trailing 1 axle truck made the engine stable enough to go into high speed 00:36:50 <Bjarni> so the point about adding another powered axle is about total weight on drivers, not number of drivers compared to unpowered axles or weight on drivers compared to the weight on the unpowered axles 00:38:14 <Bjarni> having 3 axles joined by a rod added a new limit to how sharp curves the engine can handle, so it's a tradeoff 00:38:48 <Bjarni> not to mention it's more expensive to build, operate and maintain when you increase the weight and number of moving parts 00:38:58 <Nigel> wow 00:39:03 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl8-41-90.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:39:26 <Bjarni> wow? 00:39:41 <Bjarni> you get so impressed with physics that you go wow? 00:40:16 <Nigel> no, just a whole screen a text, let me read it 00:40:24 <Bjarni> :( 00:41:21 <Bjarni> the world really need more people to care about physics and you just got amazed by the number of lines, not the serious physical contents of them.... 00:41:22 <Nigel> quite interesting though 00:41:36 <Nigel> Bjarni: i actually know a little physics 00:41:46 <Bjarni> good 00:43:01 <Nigel> i actually didn't know that 00:43:29 <Nigel> i should so go through my old physics text books again :P 00:45:24 * Sacro loves physics 00:48:58 <Bjarni> Sacro: physics can hurt your head 00:49:13 <Sacro> Bjarni: indeed... i do astrophysics at college 00:49:19 <Sacro> Hubbles Constant hurts my head 00:49:58 <lolman> Gravity hurts my head when a conker falls on it 00:50:05 <Bjarni> actually I meant if you roll over in your sleep and leave the bed, physics would pull you downward (gravity) and you can crash your head into the floor 00:50:42 <Bjarni> damn lolman beat me to include the hurting gravity idea :s 00:50:48 <lolman> :) 00:51:03 <Bjarni> and I even planned it from when I wrote the first line about hurting Sacro's head 00:51:11 <lolman> Hehe 00:51:16 <Bjarni> lolman: NOW YOU SPOILED IT >_< 00:51:32 <lolman> Awww, poor Bjarni :P 00:52:29 <Bjarni> you can tell all sorts of interesting stuff based on physics 00:52:45 <lolman> The time, for example 00:53:01 <Bjarni> like if you go on a spacewalk without a spacesuit, you will not freeze to death or suffocate 00:53:33 <Bjarni> you will die from the air pressure around you (or lack hereof) before you have time to die from the other conditions 00:55:10 <Sacro> you implode dont you 00:55:30 <Bjarni> yeah 00:55:38 <lolman> As the air leaves you, yeah 00:56:05 <Bjarni> starting with weak spots that's full of liquid or air 00:56:06 <Sacro> note to self.. . don't sneeze 00:56:08 <Bjarni> like the eyes 00:56:18 <Nigel> physics hurt, because the train ran me over :P 00:56:20 <lolman> So you'd be blind too ;-) 00:56:50 <lolman> However...the eyes would explode... 00:56:55 <Bjarni> <Nigel> physics hurt, because the train ran me over :P <-- I have been under a train and damn it hurt 00:56:56 <lolman> The rest would implode 00:57:01 <Bjarni> those rocks are sharp :( 00:57:29 <Nigel> Bjarni: heh 00:57:56 <Nigel> oh yeah, is diesel trains in underground terminals actually such a rare event? 00:58:11 <Bjarni> not here 00:58:20 <Nigel> exactly 00:58:39 <Nigel> some people here were talking about Britomart 00:58:55 <Bjarni> we have an underground station that was built in the steam era. They moved to diesel during the 50s and 60s and put up catenary in 1984 00:58:58 <Nigel> saying that the diesel trains in Britomart (underground terminal), is hardly heard of 00:59:26 *** Neonox [~Neonox@p57B2C05E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: bin wech....] 01:03:12 <Bjarni> using diesel underground do result in issues 01:03:36 <Bjarni> so using good ventilation is a must 01:04:05 <Sacro> lolman: fancy lfs? 01:04:16 <Bjarni> also I know of at least two cases where the fire alarm started because of diesel locomotives in high RPM 01:05:49 <Nigel> Bjarni: Britomart had a fire evac the other day 01:06:00 <Nigel> the brakes was steaming too much 01:06:20 <Bjarni> :) 01:07:14 <Nigel> thats why there was the discussion 01:07:18 <lolman> Sacro: you're cracked... 01:07:25 <Nigel> but yeah, the ventilation is pretty good 01:08:15 <Nigel> biggest problem is when the locos startup, the vents aren't quick enough, but it clears within seconds 01:11:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> all underground systems i know are electric 01:12:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i don't know how many diesel trains are going there 01:13:20 <Nigel> i think Britomart was designed for electric, but the govt doesn't want to fund it 01:13:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> unelectrified tracks are usually minor routes through the countryside 01:22:16 <Nigel> Wellington is Electric, but Auckland sadly isn't 01:33:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> none of these names actually tell me anything 01:33:47 <Nigel> Wellington = Lower North Is, Auckland = Upper North Is where I live 01:34:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> ? 01:35:13 <Nigel> http://smaps.co.nz/nz/ 01:35:36 <Nigel> oh, and Britomart is central Auckland 01:42:05 <Nigel> woohoo, only 7 "train is delayed" messages today 01:46:34 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x535ca25f.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:52:01 *** Sacro [Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Server closed connection] 01:52:26 *** Sacro [Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 02:15:13 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:15:15 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 02:17:01 *** Tron [~tron@p54A3FD61.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:17:13 *** Tron [~tron@p54A3FD61.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:22:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r8827 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 02:22:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Cleanup of industry_cmd (Step-6). Implementation of IndustryTileSPec, the alter ego of IndustrySpec. 02:22:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: It offers identification of the different industry tiles in a more distinct manner, as well as regrouping scattered pieces of data across the sources. More to come 02:30:53 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B7588B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:33:29 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 02:36:28 *** Sacro [Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:36:57 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498EF16.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:37:17 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76043.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:37:36 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498EF16.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:51:13 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B7588B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:52:08 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B7588B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:28:12 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498EF16.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:28:58 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498EF16.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 03:51:41 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04:48 *** Osai 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(r7585): On load calculate the station rectangle for all savegames, not just savegames with at least version 27 08:32:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8829 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): 08:32:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix 08:32:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Remove translations which should not be empty 08:35:28 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:48:40 *** Maedhros_ is now known as Maedhros 08:49:11 *** Smoky555 [~Miranda@intmail.vgtz.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:49:28 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@212-182-130-7.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:50:35 <Darkvater> morning 08:52:05 <Maedhros> good morning 08:53:37 <Darkvater> :O 92 seconds needed to sell 50BMW's in Neiman Marcus's Christmas catalog 08:53:45 <Darkvater> there are too many rich people 08:54:39 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C3CB.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 08:58:38 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FFCE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:00:00 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:00:36 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@212-182-130-7.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 09:02:33 <peter1139> bah 09:03:02 <Darkvater> moin' 09:07:03 *** gass [~any@81.84.150.85] has joined #openttd 09:12:32 <peter1139> damn, cacti needs a fast system :/ 09:12:56 <Darkvater> use just a single cactus 09:22:44 *** Brianetta_again is now known as Brianetta 09:29:56 <TheMask96> lol :) 09:32:47 <Nigel> heh 09:33:20 <peter1139> o_O 09:34:20 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 09:40:07 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0FC26.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 09:40:26 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0FC26.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:44:28 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@d130050.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Server closed connection] 09:44:30 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@d130050.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:49:03 *** setrodox [~setrodox@85-124-40-225.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit 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timeout: 480 seconds] 12:43:08 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 12:45:01 *** setrodox__ [~setrodox@85-124-45-77.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 12:47:37 *** michi_cc [b50c9bca6b@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:52:31 *** setrodox_ [~setrodox@85-124-173-162.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:55:18 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:55:42 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 13:03:24 *** Tino|R152 [Tino@52N.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:20:36 <GoneWacko> I've never seen so much talking in this channel 13:20:58 <Sionide> last message at 09:33 GMT: <peter1139> o_O 13:21:11 <Sionide> HOW IS IT GOING GONEWACKO ! 13:21:17 <Sionide> played much ottd lately? 13:21:26 <GoneWacko> Can't say that I have 13:21:39 <GoneWacko> I'm too lazy to download nice GRF files :( 13:21:39 <Sionide> me neither, been busy 13:21:52 <GoneWacko> I'm busy waiting for my components 13:22:03 * GoneWacko assumes Sionide's been following planet tt-forums 13:22:25 <Sionide> sorta 13:22:28 <Sionide> new comp? 13:22:51 <GoneWacko> you could say that 13:23:12 <GoneWacko> muchos dineros 13:35:57 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC5C8D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:45:48 *** Jezral [~projectjj@nat.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Server closed connection] 13:45:55 *** Jezral [~projectjj@nat.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd 13:46:57 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:47:00 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:57:01 *** michi_cc [e29dd47457@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 14:07:07 *** michi_cc [e29dd47457@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Quit: michi_cc] 14:08:20 *** michi_cc [8fca6929c4@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 14:08:21 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 14:09:16 *** qfh [~qfh@static-ip-62-75-161-163.inaddr.intergenia.de] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:09:27 *** qfh [~qfh@static-ip-62-75-161-163.inaddr.intergenia.de] has joined #openttd 14:13:28 <Belugas> hello 14:20:14 *** Nigel [~nigel@202-154-145-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:20:26 *** Nigel [~nigel@202-154-145-102.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 14:23:11 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:36:11 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC5C8D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:40:43 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC78C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:51:42 *** mikk36[EST] [~mikk36@ip22.cab12.ktln.starman.ee] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:51:59 *** mikk36 [~mikk36@ip22.cab12.ktln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 14:52:31 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-71-63-8-186.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:52:42 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-71-63-8-186.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 14:55:39 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 14:56:39 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 14:57:36 *** _42_ [truelight@openttd.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:57:51 *** _42_ [truelight@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 14:59:03 *** mode/#openttd [+o _42_] by ChanServ 15:09:11 <Darkvater> hi Belugas 15:16:48 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:17:16 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 15:23:21 *** Smoovious [~smoovious@c-71-205-140-67.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 15:24:17 *** Smoovious [~smoovious@c-71-205-140-67.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 15:29:50 *** Wolfy [~wolf@a61145.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:34:56 *** mode/#openttd [-o _42_] by ChanServ 15:37:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v _42_] by ChanServ 15:41:21 <Belugas> mister Darkvater :) 15:41:26 <Belugas> i salute thee 15:45:56 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:46:06 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 15:54:08 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:54:13 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 16:19:25 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:38 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83E15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:36:36 *** Sacro [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 16:38:53 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B82FA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:38:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:42:07 *** TronBSD [~tron@p54A3E1C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:43:16 *** Tron [~tron@p54A3FD61.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:46:42 *** green-devil [~rendmig@0x5735f025.vgnxx6.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:48:59 * Sacro prods lolman 16:49:01 <Sacro> OH NOES 16:49:41 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has joined #openttd 16:50:08 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:51:19 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 17:09:08 * lolman prods Sacro 17:09:17 * Sacro sqeaks 17:10:51 *** lolman [~john@81.100.228.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:09 *** lolman [~john@81.100.228.56] has joined #openttd 17:11:27 <lolman> Hmm 17:13:22 <Sacro> indeed 17:13:27 * Sacro goes racing 17:14:54 <lolman> Sacro: you said last night you wanted to play LFS? 17:15:31 <Prof_Frink> LFS sounds like hard work to me. 17:15:46 <lolman> Live For Speed, not Linux From Scratch :) 17:16:13 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: ive done both 17:16:15 <Prof_Frink> :) 17:16:24 <Sacro> lolman: yes, i have been playing LFS 17:19:52 <lolman> What combo? 17:20:31 <Sacro> eh? 17:20:35 <lolman> Track/car 17:20:39 <Sacro> oh...err... 17:20:41 <Sacro> testing a few 17:20:47 <lolman> :) 17:20:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8830 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: 17:20:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: Stop loading and disable the current newgrf if a fatal error message 17:20:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: in Action B is encountered. Also be more strict on the values accepted. 17:21:52 <Maedhros> unfortunately for anyone using ttrs3 in trunk, you won't be able to use it anymore ;) 17:22:15 *** Arkus [~danielark@82.152.149.14] has joined #openttd 17:32:31 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 17:37:02 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-235-151.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:37:05 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-235-151.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 17:38:56 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host175-238-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:39:06 <Wolf01> hello 17:40:29 <Sacro> hey Wolf 17:45:21 *** lolman [~john@81.100.228.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:31 *** lolman [~john@81.100.228.56] has joined #openttd 17:51:38 <Wolf01> mmmm politicians in italy are more stupid than me 17:53:31 <Sacro> thats worrying 17:53:39 <Wolf01> yes 17:53:44 <Wolf01> that's really worring 17:53:47 <Wolf01> *y 17:54:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8831 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: 17:54:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: If an action 7/9 leads to skipping the rest of the file, disable the 17:54:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: newgrf if an action 8 hasn't been encountered yet. 17:54:52 <Wolf01> we might have berlusconi (the clown) again as first minister 17:59:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8832 /trunk/ (12 files in 2 dirs): 17:59:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Change: rewrite the solution file generator a little so it makes project files that look more like the ones generated by respectively MSVC2003 and MSVC2005. 17:59:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: For some reason the internal formatting of the XML between MSVC2003 and MSVC2005 differs, so adding a file in MSVC2005 would result in basically adding the entire openttd_vs80.vcproj to the diff. 18:03:35 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:12:46 *** lolman [~john@81.100.228.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:16:14 *** Tron_ [wywsI48E@nat-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:19:31 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 18:21:13 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CCB0.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 18:21:46 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5772982.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:22:03 *** Sacro [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:26:48 *** BJH2 [~chatzilla@e176126204.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:30:10 *** lolman [~john@81.100.228.56] has joined #openttd 18:33:56 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5772982.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:20 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5772982.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:36:54 *** HMage` [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 18:36:55 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:39:44 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:41:00 *** HMage` [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:23 *** setrodox__ [~setrodox@85-124-45-77.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:42:02 *** wonea [~wonea@wonea.demon.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:42:48 *** PandaMojo [~chatzilla@ip72-197-231-130.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox 1.5.0.9/2006120612]] 18:43:05 *** TronBSD is now known as Tron 18:45:47 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 18:46:55 *** wonea [~wonea@wonea.demon.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:51:57 <DaleStan> Belugas: Since you were asking, I just remembered two other things that Planeset 1.6 requires: mod flags bit 10 (var FE bit 10/var FF bit 2) and variable 48. 18:52:55 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:53:19 *** Sacro [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 18:54:36 <Born_Acorn> The Planset needs more explosions and narrators with deep voices. 18:54:55 <Born_Acorn> *COMING SOON to a GRFCrawler near you* 18:55:01 <Born_Acorn> *boom* 18:55:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> DaleStan: btw. checking existence of features by comparing a scalar will never work for features that are implemented in the future 18:55:17 <Darkvater> Rubidium: r8832? 18:56:13 <Belugas> DaleStan : noted 18:56:14 <Rubidium> people complaining about the fact that adding one file in MSVC2005 changes the complete file 18:56:34 <HMage> lf->crlf? 18:56:34 <Darkvater> Rubidium: yes is that fixed or introduced by r8832? 18:56:46 <Belugas> DaleStan, thanks, by the way :) 18:58:35 <Rubidium> most of it should be fixed by r8832, but it is impossible to fix everything, as for example the version number's decimal character seem to depend on the settings of the OS 18:59:20 <glx> and my 2005 likes to reorder configurations 18:59:25 <Rubidium> and it seems to order some the configurations differently with different versions of MSVC 2005 18:59:50 <Darkvater> yeah, every time I add a file to the project file internally and save it, the whole file is different 18:59:56 <Darkvater> so I just do it manually 19:00:14 <DaleStan> Eddi|zuHause2: Do you have better suggestion for support checks? Because checking for support for every single bit of every single variable seems absurd. (Obviously, I can't just check the variable as a whole, because most variables start out as byte-sized and later grow to two, three, or four bytes, and some variables gain bits one at a time.) 19:00:34 <Rubidium> now the differences should be much much less 19:03:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> DaleStan: sorry, i have no sensible solution for that, only that for every (tiny) change in the newgrf spec you set a bit in a bitfield... 19:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> then you could know exactly what part of the spec is implemented 19:05:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> but if you only check against a scalar value, you would have to predict at what point in the future a feature gets implemented, or you refuse to load no matter if it is actually implemented, and have to release an update when it is implemented 19:07:08 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl8-40-244.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 19:07:15 <Digitalfox> Hi :) 19:08:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> this second scenario especially implies that there is no testing case for the feature 19:09:17 <peter1138> well 19:09:24 <peter1138> the "ttdpatch flags" test is basically that 19:09:38 <Born_Acorn> peter1138! 19:09:43 <Rubidium> Darkvater: could you look at the problem of http://nightly.openttd.org/devs/logs/i686.nightly.error.log ? 19:09:43 <peter1138> Born_Acorn! 19:09:44 <Born_Acorn> Look everyone, peter1138 is here! 19:09:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah but it is obviously not complete 19:09:48 <peter1138> no i'm not 19:09:51 <Born_Acorn> Lies. 19:09:57 <Darkvater> STOP CHATTING BITCHES 19:09:57 <Digitalfox> Maedhros: To what point does openttd now blocks newgrf it does not recognize or is has incompatible paremeters?? Will give me and other persons problems with newgrf that isn't 100% compatible? 19:09:59 <Born_Acorn> I happen to know it to be true that you are. 19:10:05 <DaleStan> Except that it's not for what's supported, it's for what the user has chosen to enable. 19:10:09 <Darkvater> I cannot select Rubidium's text as it keeps scrolling up 19:10:13 <HMage> Darkvater: try +m :) 19:10:20 <Born_Acorn> it works, hardcore. 19:10:28 <DaleStan> If the user can't disable it, it doesn't get a bit in var 85. 19:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe that should be changed 19:11:42 <Maedhros> Digitalfox: no, this only makes openttd's newgrf support a little more compatible 19:12:18 <Maedhros> Digitalfox: this means that ttrs3 will now refuse to load in trunk because newhouses isn't available, which is what was intended by the grf's authors all along 19:12:22 <Darkvater> Rubidium: hmm, technically gcc is correct, but practically it isn't 19:12:48 <Darkvater> Rubidium: it'd be damn ugly to strdup() that string just to have it copied in the function itself and free the buffer 2 lines later 19:13:28 <Tron> static char[] = "foobar"; 19:13:43 <Darkvater> (char*)"bla"; 19:13:46 <Darkvater> made it shut up as well 19:13:48 <Digitalfox> Maedhros: So this was what Dalestan wanted ?? Newgrf that doesn't comply doesn't load ttrs 3 ? 19:13:56 <Digitalfox> like ttrs 3 19:13:58 <Maedhros> Digitalfox: no 19:13:58 <Tron> or why isn't the struct attribute a const char*? 19:14:27 <Maedhros> Digitalfox: grf's can supply error messages, and if they are fatal errors the grf is supposed to stop loading 19:14:34 <Maedhros> Digitalfox: they didn't before, but they do now 19:15:45 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-056-231-084.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:16:03 * Maedhros slaps himself for abusing apostrophes 19:16:07 <DaleStan> Eddi|zuHause2: Well, GRFs can only test at most 256 bits of the ttdpatch flags. And I'm sure that there have been more than 256 changes to the newgrf spec. 19:16:09 <dihedral> is being able to clear the password of a company from the console a bad thing? 19:16:21 <Darkvater> Tron: apparently you cannot free the pointer free((*config)->filename); 19:16:22 *** Ailure [Gamefreak@194.47.44.229] has joined #openttd 19:16:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> DaleStan: yeah, i said it was not sensible 19:16:59 <Darkvater> but all entries to GRFConfig are copied from the original 19:17:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> although this 256 bit limit sounds a little arbitrary 19:17:13 <Digitalfox> Maedhros: I see, now i have to forget for a while TTRS 3, since i was using it with trunk to see how roads and road buildings were showing, with my newgrf configuration, i was waiting for newhouses merge for using it... :( 19:18:09 <lolman> Digitalfox: when newhouses gets merged (if?) it should work...if I'm understanding the concept right 19:18:54 <Darkvater> Tron: is static char[] better or a char* cast? 19:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> doesn't ttrs3 have parameters to disable the buildings? 19:19:00 <DaleStan> The bit index is stored in a single byte. And there may be good reason for the current 00..7F limit (like x86's habit of sign-extending bytes, instead of zero-extending them). 19:19:14 <Belugas> lolman, forget the (if?) ;) 19:19:42 <lolman> ok ;) 19:19:43 <peter1138> right, homne 19:19:45 <peter1138> er 19:19:46 <peter1138> home 19:19:48 <Born_Acorn> homne 19:20:02 <Digitalfox> lolman: Yeah with newhouses it will work, the problem was i was using it with trunk for having my newgrf set's looking nice ( still i couldn't use houses, but roads and road buildings were working fine ):) 19:20:04 * lolman gets on with Computing project...damn VB >_< 19:20:12 <DaleStan> Digitalfox: No, I want Open to refuse to load ttrs3 because it doesn't know what an action B is, not because the action B says "don't load this file". 19:20:14 <peter1138> set's! 19:20:40 <DaleStan> Digitalfox: ... Rather poorly phrased, though. 19:20:54 <peter1138> very, it knows full well what an action B is 19:21:56 <Maedhros> it falls over a little bit if you give it a custom error message though 19:22:01 <lolman> In fact...what was I wanting to get done on this thing... 19:22:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> <DaleStan> The bit index is stored in a single byte. And there may be good reason for the current 00..7F limit (like x86's habit of sign-extending bytes, instead of zero-extending them). <- this sounds exactly like the reasoning of an assembler programmer ;) 19:22:37 <Digitalfox> Sorry if i'm having a hard time explaining my thoughts, but translating portuguese from my head to english is a bit hard sometimes :) 19:22:43 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23:40 <DaleStan> Well, NFO was designed by an assembly programmer, to be quickly and easily parsed by a program written in assembly. 19:23:42 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has joined #openttd 19:24:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, i understand that ;) 19:24:16 *** McHawk [~hawk@p5489F3C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:24:52 <Brianetta> NFO needs a compiler, from some higher language to NFO bytes 19:25:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> but then you should not complain if a C++ program interprets the spec a little more loosely 19:25:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> because it faces other kinds of limitations than assembly programs 19:25:45 *** lolman is now known as lolman|DamnVB 19:25:46 <DaleStan> It's welcome to be loose. It's not welcome to disobey the spec. 19:26:08 <Brianetta> Can it obey an earlier version of the spec? 19:26:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> there's no real difference between bending the rules and breaking them 19:26:55 <Wolf01> yeah, now i have the TI85 on my nintendo DS... i only miss ottd :P 19:27:11 <DaleStan> Can I determine which version of the spec is supported? 19:28:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is exactly what the problem is... the spec is not implemented linearly 19:28:15 <Brianetta> I have a HP49G on my Palm 19:28:16 <Tron> (like x86's habit of sign-extending bytes, instead of zero-extending them). <- this sounds exactly like the reasoning of an assembler programmer ;) <--- rather like somebody who can't tell the difference between movsbl and movzbl 19:28:44 <peter1138> oh yes, i was going home 19:28:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> so you cannot determine a "version" that is supported 19:29:31 <DaleStan> Tron: Good theory. Except that x86 cannot be convinced to zero-extended imm8s. 19:29:44 <DaleStan> If the spec doesn't say what value appears in the high three bytes of var 48, then failing to zero those three bytes is interpreting the spec loosely, albeit validly. But failing to set the low byte correctly is disobeying the spec. 19:32:01 <Born_Acorn> peter1138 must the the only person on the planet who forgets about going home after work. 19:32:12 <lolman|DamnVB> BBL ;) 19:32:41 <Brianetta> Born_Acorn: I forget, too, but the cleaners kick me out after a bit 19:32:53 *** Arkus [~danielark@82.152.149.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:33:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> the same kind of cleaners that pull the plug of The Server to plug in the vacuum? 19:34:55 <hylje> the classic WTF 19:46:22 <peter1138> W.T.F. 19:46:39 *** Desolator [~admin@86.126.43.192] has joined #openttd 19:46:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8833 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp station_map.h): 19:46:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix 19:46:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Split MakeRoadStop() into MakeRoadStop() and MakeDriveThroughRoadStop() for more clarity and less possibilities to use it incorrect 19:46:58 *** Desolator [~admin@86.126.43.192] has quit [] 19:47:20 <peter1138> DaleStan, what is your problem with var 48? 19:47:44 <peter1138> hmm 19:48:22 <DaleStan> I mentioned it because the documentation on whether or not it works properly is nonexistent. 19:49:10 <peter1138> feel free to document it 19:49:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8834 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: 19:49:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix 19:49:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Do not pass something to a function it better could figure out by itself 19:50:34 <Born_Acorn> Oi, aircraft_cmd.cpp, YOU SHALL NOT PASS. 19:50:39 * Born_Acorn gandalf 19:52:47 <Tron> got any problem? 19:53:27 <Maedhros> new patch, for showing action b errors in the gui: http://devs.openttd.org/~maedhros/show_grf_errors_in_gui.diff 19:53:37 <Maedhros> looks something like http://devs.openttd.org/~maedhros/show_grf_errors_in_gui.png 19:54:03 <Maedhros> if the grf text and error messages are long enough it overflows though :-/ 19:54:21 <Tron> + char *message = CallocT<char>(1024); 19:54:21 <Tron> + snprintf(message, 1023, msgstr[(message_id == 0xFF) ? lengthof(msgstr) - 1 : message_id], sevstr[severity], grf_load_string(&buf, len)); 19:54:21 <Tron> + 19:54:23 <Tron> *BZZZT* 19:54:37 <Tron> NEVER use a number in snprintf for buffer length 19:54:44 <Tron> also the number is one to low 19:55:15 <Maedhros> so what should i be using? (and i thought you had to leave space for the NUL byte in snprintf, ah well) 19:56:16 <Tron> also using calloc and then overwriting the content anyway is pretty pointless 19:56:41 <peter1138> grrr, bloody cisco 19:57:10 <Maedhros> ok, so malloc, and an enum for the size? 19:57:29 <peter1138> hehe, even the old planeset no longer works :D 19:57:54 *** lugo [~lugo@pD95810E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:57:58 <lugo> hi 19:58:04 <Tron> a simple const will do 19:58:30 <peter1138> Darkvater: is there any reason why loading a savegame with grf config also loads the newgame grf config? 19:59:29 <Maedhros> + const uint MESSAGE_SIZE = 1024; 19:59:30 <Maedhros> + char *message = MallocT<char>(MESSAGE_SIZE); 19:59:36 <Maedhros> better? 19:59:49 <Maedhros> bah, i forgot irc and tabs don't get along well together... 19:59:53 <Tron> and general hint: don't ever try to think. it doesn't work. billions have tried before you. 19:59:57 <Tron> just read the manual 19:59:57 *** Sacro_ [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 20:00:06 <peter1138> everyone understands the inverted I 20:00:46 <Born_Acorn> You forget the inverted u 20:00:49 <Born_Acorn> n 20:01:01 <peter1138> shut up[ 20:01:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> ^I gets interpreted as italic here 20:01:07 <Born_Acorn> Nevar 20:01:44 <peter1138> aircrafts! 20:02:18 *** Sacro [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:03:39 *** CaSpEr_59 [~sesimiz@85.101.85.205] has joined #openttd 20:03:48 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro 20:03:59 <CaSpEr_59> HeLLo 20:04:14 *** CaSpEr_59 [~sesimiz@85.101.85.205] has quit [] 20:04:44 <Born_Acorn> GoODBYe 20:04:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> sometimes i am amazed what kind of people manage to survive 20:05:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8835 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: 20:05:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix 20:05:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Remove dead code 20:06:09 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 20:08:23 <DaleStan> Maedhros: If you're using C++, why are you still using char*s and printfs, instead of strings and stringstreams? 20:09:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> probably because compiling c as c++ and using c++ features are two entirely different pairs of shoes 20:10:07 <Maedhros> i'm pretty sure the decision was that iostreams were ugly and weren't going to be used in openttd 20:10:10 *** MUcht [~Mucht@p57A0DEB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:10:30 <DaleStan> But templates (eg "CallocT<char>(1024);") are C++, not C. 20:10:45 <Maedhros> yes, but that's out of necessity (or something like that, anyway) 20:11:22 <peter1138> malloc works fine 20:11:27 <peter1138> you just have to (bleh) cast it 20:12:29 <DaleStan> strings and streams constitute at least 90% of the reason I prefer C++ to C. 20:13:56 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0FC26.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:24:09 <Darkvater> peter1138: when? 20:24:45 * Darkvater dislikes streams 20:25:25 <Darkvater> peter1138: I don't think there would be a reason to do so, did I do this? 20:25:50 <Tron> Darkvater: C++ has no implicit cast from void* to another type 20:26:07 <peter1138> Darkvater: i don't know, but it does it 20:26:23 <Darkvater> Tron: what did I do? 20:27:03 <Tron> oh, you didn't refer to the necessity to cast peter mentioned? then nvm 20:27:11 <Darkvater> hmm Tron static char[] bla = "aaaaa"; or (char*)"aaaaa" for the warning in oldloader.cpp? 20:27:15 <Darkvater> Tron: no, something else 20:27:33 <peter1138> mmm, prawn crackers 20:27:39 <peter1138> like skips but bigger 20:27:55 <Darkvater> Maedhros: perhaps allow a dodgy-grf mode? It's suboptimal to refuse loading sets that were (kinda) working because of small errors/warnings 20:29:45 <Maedhros> hmm, it's not because of small errors or warnings, it's because the grf author explicitly decided to disable it 20:31:00 <Maedhros> and for the change in 8831, it was happening anyway, but openttd wasn't telling you about it 20:32:22 <Darkvater> he, we can override what the author decides 20:32:41 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B82FA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:33:05 <Darkvater> peter1138: the issue you are talking about is that some recent change? 20:33:23 <Darkvater> or old? If it's recent I'm bjarnizing and didn't clear _grfconfig prior to appending 20:34:01 <peter1138> dunno 20:34:04 <peter1138> didn't look 20:35:18 <HMage> new term in vocabulary - bjarnization :D 20:35:38 <Sacro|Laptop> HMage: in other words... broken 20:35:42 <Sacro|Laptop> except in OSX 20:35:48 <Sacro|Laptop> though quite possibly there too 20:36:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm sure it should be bjarnisation ;) 20:36:05 <HMage> I know what that means :) it's just I realized that this word is common here now :) 20:36:14 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B8155F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:36:15 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 20:36:37 <HMage> Eddi: is that according to UK English rules? 20:37:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> at least that was the outcome of a recent discussion 20:37:32 <HMage> I see. 20:37:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> there was even a poll about it in the forums 20:37:45 * HMage adds "Bjarnisation" 20:37:55 <dihedral> let me try that again: 20:37:56 <dihedral> is being able to clear the password of a company from the console a bad thing? 20:38:10 <dihedral> talking about a dedicated server console 20:38:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> probably not... 20:38:35 <HMage> I think admin has all rights to control his game. 20:39:06 <HMage> so no, it's not a bad thing. 20:39:15 <HMage> imho 20:39:19 <dihedral> well - i had someone in today who forgot his password... came in as a spec 20:39:34 <dihedral> and asked if i was able to do something 20:39:47 <dihedral> as nobody else was playing i turned on autoclean 20:40:01 <dihedral> and turned it back off once his password was cleared 20:45:09 <dihedral> thanks 20:49:13 <peter1138> why is torcs so crap? 20:49:34 * Born_Acorn reverses the word into Scrot 20:49:41 <Born_Acorn> Which is the first bit of Scrotum 20:49:44 <Born_Acorn> hence, crap. 20:50:01 * Born_Acorn rests his case. 20:50:13 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:50:16 * peter1138 resets Born_Acorn 20:50:22 * Born_Acorn rests his case. 20:50:30 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-140-207-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 20:50:39 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CCB0.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.] 20:50:46 <Born_Acorn> hmm. Looks like we have a Critic in #openttd. 20:51:19 *** mojs_ [mojs@hhcrew.net] has joined #openttd 20:51:51 <SpComb> zomg openttd sucks rly bad 20:52:19 <Born_Acorn> No, thats moronic. I said Critic. 20:52:42 *** Netsplit osmotic.oftc.net <-> scorpio.oftc.net quits: ThePizzaKing, Frostregen, Brianetta, Osai, izhirahider, coronel, mojs 20:52:43 <Born_Acorn> Like, "Dear Sirs, I do so believe the current Space Travel abilities in OpenTTD to be poo. 20:52:52 *** Netsplit over, joins: Brianetta 20:52:56 *** izhirahider [~izhirahid@squareroot.divisionbyzero.net] has joined #openttd 20:56:04 <Belugas> anyone can read russian in here? 20:56:43 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB69CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:58:15 <Born_Acorn> I cannot. 20:58:26 <Born_Acorn> But I can pretend to and make up some words for you. 20:59:21 <Belugas> that is not exactly the answer i expected :S 20:59:23 <Born_Acorn> "Dear Mr Belugas. I like your trousers. Were they hand made by gypsies in cambodia? If so, where can I locate a similar pair? Yours sincerely, Sergej. 20:59:41 <Belugas> hehe 20:59:43 *** coronel [andreabl@login1.powertech.no] has joined #openttd 20:59:52 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-155-87.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 21:00:16 <Born_Acorn> Thats what he's been trying to ask this whole time. Everyone just misinterprets his attempts as showing off new 32bpp graphics for some reason. 21:02:06 <Rubidium> Born_Acorn, you forgot the part where he tell the number unique colors of the trousers that are shown in the copy of the screen of the trousers 21:02:13 <Rubidium> *tells 21:02:42 <Rubidium> yuck, seems I'm inheriting bad grammar from somewhere... 21:02:51 <Born_Acorn> "Dear Men from Cambodia (19 of you today), please, please tell me where I can get them from. PLEASE." 21:03:43 <Born_Acorn> Rubidium, or when he takes generic statements that are completely irrelevant as compliments about his choice of trousers. 21:07:13 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB69CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 21:08:56 <ln-_> who has a VIA Epia (C3 Nehemiah)? 21:09:06 <ln-_> and is running linux on it? 21:10:25 <Belugas> [16:03] <Rubidium> yuck, seems I'm inheriting bad grammar from somewhere... <--- I really wonder where ;) 21:11:36 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB69CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:12:53 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:26 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 21:14:31 <lolman|DamnVB> oh noes 21:15:13 <Sacro|Laptop> indeed 21:17:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> that stopped being funny after the 521556732nd time 21:17:03 *** lugo [~lugo@pD95810E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:56 <Sacro|Laptop> Eddi|zuHause2: ORLY? 21:18:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> YARLY! 21:18:29 <Sacro|Laptop> i rest my case 21:19:01 *** Desolator [~admin@86.126.43.192] has joined #openttd 21:21:35 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C3CB.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:23:21 *** Desolator [~admin@86.126.43.192] has quit [] 21:25:18 * Maedhros has been playing - http://devs.openttd.org/~maedhros/show_grf_errors_in_gui.png 21:25:51 <Born_Acorn> Ooh, pretty little error icon. :p 21:26:21 <Darkvater> Maedhros: :O 'error' yet it's still active? 21:26:32 <Maedhros> yeah, i don't quite know why... 21:27:21 <Maedhros> the stations don't show up in the game, so i can only assume the action 8 is loaded before the action 7 saying "panic!" 21:27:40 <Maedhros> so the stations aren't loaded, but the grf is still marked as active 21:29:22 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 21:29:48 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:34:14 <peter1138> oh, it's an "error" not a "fatal" ? 21:34:20 <Maedhros> yeah 21:34:26 <Maedhros> here's the diff, anyway: http://devs.openttd.org/~maedhros/show_grf_errors_in_gui.diff 21:34:41 <Maedhros> and the openttd.grf to go with it: http://devs.openttd.org/~maedhros/openttd.grf 21:41:30 <Maedhros> hmm, something's wrong there... first a segfault, and then a free(): invalid pointer 21:43:54 <Born_Acorn> Well, at least it's free. 21:44:03 <Born_Acorn> If it cost money, it'd be a pain. 21:45:43 <Maedhros> umm, what on earth is going on in newgrf_config.cpp:123 ? 21:45:54 <Maedhros> *c = *src; 21:45:55 <Maedhros> if (src->filename != NULL) c->filename = strdup(src->filename); 21:46:45 <peter1138> the joys of copying objects containing pointers 21:47:03 <Darkvater> what's src->filename? 21:47:15 <peter1138> "fred" 21:47:33 <Darkvater> peter1138: have you come up with any brilliant ideas lately for the sdl mixer? ;) 21:47:42 <peter1138> not touched it 21:47:55 <Darkvater> http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/openttd/dsound_v1.diff 21:48:20 <Darkvater> this might help, although 90% of int8_to_int16 is duplicated :s 21:48:24 <Darkvater> stupid volume thing 21:49:17 *** BJH2 [~chatzilla@e176126204.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]] 21:49:38 <peter1138> it would help if i was currently looking into it 21:50:00 <Darkvater> I've also added a comment of perhaps caching the int16 output stream... but it takes 4x as much space as the original 8-bit one 21:51:41 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-056-231-084.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120418]] 21:52:00 <peter1138> yeah 21:52:10 <peter1138> why can't the drivers handle the resampling... :( 21:53:10 <Darkvater> OMG 21:53:13 * Darkvater tries something 21:56:05 <Darkvater> OMG 21:56:10 <Darkvater> I am an idiot 21:56:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: KUDr * r8836 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_base.hpp: 21:56:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [YAPF] -Fix[FS#641]: Assertion: 'IsTileDepotType(depot_tile, TRANSPORT_ROAD)' failed (Karsten) 21:56:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -don't tell that we found destination if the best direction was only guessed 21:56:18 <Darkvater> directound can resample... 21:56:26 <Sacro> Darkvater: didn't you know that? 21:56:30 <Darkvater> why am I resampling it manually 21:56:34 <Darkvater> I knew it 21:56:46 <Darkvater> just soo damn focused on doing it that I totally forgot 21:56:50 <Darkvater> peter1138: you are a GENIUS 21:56:52 <peter1138> :D 21:56:58 <Darkvater> a fucking genius 21:57:43 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 21:59:53 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has quit [] 22:00:09 <HMage> actually, the formula is 20 * log10(), not 2 * log10() 22:00:48 <HMage> increasing the volume two times is 20 * log10(2) = 6.02059991327962 dB 22:00:49 <Darkvater> HMage: well 1000 * 2 or 100 * 20 doesn't really matter :) 22:01:03 <HMage> to be pedantic. Someone will forget that it's 2, not 20 22:01:44 <Darkvater> but very well 22:02:08 <Darkvater> now that peter reminded me the sound driver can remix...it's a lot easier 22:02:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8837 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#626]: drive through stations did not connect to neighbouring roads (mart3p). 22:02:32 <HMage> yup, but Vista will do that 100% in software. Though in XP if hardware buffers are available that'll be done in hardware. 22:03:10 <peter1138> vista users deserve what they get 22:03:12 <Darkvater> yeah well fuck vista 22:03:32 * HMage agrees with peter1138 and DaleStan 22:03:33 <Roel> that's the spirit 22:03:33 <HMage> er 22:03:35 <HMage> and Darkvater 22:03:50 <Darkvater> HMage: it's either mixed in openttd software or vista software. Doesn't make too much differencee, although probably openttd mixer would be faster 22:03:57 <Roel> but you need a pentium 7 to install vista, so the mixing in software is fast enough..:) 22:04:17 <HMage> Darkvater: actually, XP's kernel mixer is blazingly fast. 22:04:24 <HMage> vista's mixer is even faster. 22:04:50 <HMage> but we're ralking about 1% of modern CPU's, so big deal :D 22:04:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, to mix anything in hardware, it probably has to be AES-128 encrypted 10 times ;) 22:04:59 <Darkvater> I doubt it can be faster than a mixer written _only_ to mix 8bit-mono to 16bit-stereo 22:05:02 <HMage> (of modern CPU's load) 22:05:07 <Tefad> which is about 60MHz ; ) 22:05:33 <HMage> Darkvater: you won't believe, but it is :) 22:05:55 <HMage> that was the whole point of DirectSound before Vista. 22:06:10 <Darkvater> excluding hardware mixing 22:06:45 <HMage> in Vista, DirectSound is deprecated and everyone is encouraged to use XACT, due to political reasons everyone knows (Xbox:) 22:07:06 <Tefad> i heard EAX support is dropped, yes? 22:07:22 <Darkvater> peter1138: although I must say sdl_mixer is fairly crappy if it can't resample 22:07:31 <HMage> Tefad: it wasn't dropped, it's not supported in DirectSound3D. It's supported via OpenAL, for example. 22:07:32 *** dfox [~dfox@r4az242.net.upc.cz] has quit [Server closed connection] 22:07:45 *** dfox [~dfox@r4az242.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 22:07:45 <peter1138> yes it is 22:08:11 <Tefad> is OpenAL counterpart to OpenGL? 22:08:23 <HMage> nope 22:08:34 <HMage> it's Loki software's child 22:08:45 <HMage> I like it better than SDL_mixer 22:08:57 <HMage> but it's open source 22:09:04 <Tefad> it is or is not 22:09:11 <HMage> http://www.openal.org/ 22:09:20 <Tefad> i'm there 22:10:26 <Tefad> not sure what you meant by "but it's open source" 22:10:37 <Tefad> last i checked both openal and sdl are open source 22:10:42 <HMage> er, forgive me for my english. "and" 22:10:48 <HMage> instead of "but" 22:11:01 <Maedhros> any comments on http://devs.openttd.org/~maedhros/show_grf_errors_in_gui.diff ? (doesn't segfault any more) 22:11:04 <Tefad> oh : ) 22:11:18 <Tefad> and, but, or are key conjunctions 22:11:54 <Tefad> but usually counters a point 22:11:59 <Tefad> </english_lesson> 22:12:28 <HMage> Tefad: I know, it's just sometimes I fail at basic english grammar in moments I don't even realise. 22:12:31 <Darkvater> it's pretty stupid imho dropping HW directsound support...it would not have killed them to write a wrapper around it 22:12:52 <HMage> Darkvater: dunno. Seems like political gesture. 22:12:59 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5772982.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:00 <HMage> anyway, the way you upsample to double sample rate is _very_ wrong. 22:14:10 <Naksu> Darkvater: who+ 22:14:19 <HMage> Naksu: Microsoft. In Vista. 22:14:32 <Darkvater> what the? do you need special XACT audio files to use xact or something? 22:14:47 <Belugas> Maedhros, just a though... why do you need the new glyph? Simply putting it in red is not enough? 22:14:56 <HMage> Darkvater: you need very fresh directx redist to use XACT. 22:15:06 <Darkvater> HMage: I just copied the code from the current mixer. Probably the internal format is such 22:15:23 <Darkvater> HMage: I was just reading the docs out of interest 22:15:33 <Maedhros> Belugas: because otherwise you can't tell if there's a non-fatal error without looking through all the grfs 22:16:00 <Maedhros> e.g. the canadian stations have an error, but they aren't deactivated, so you can't tell without the icon 22:16:17 <Belugas> red, orange? i'm not againt it, it's just that it breaks alignment 22:17:02 *** guru3 [~guru3@90-227-129-150-no21.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 22:17:13 *** guru3 [~guru3@90-227-129-150-no21.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 22:17:16 <Maedhros> http://devs.openttd.org/~maedhros/show_grf_errors_in_gui.png 22:17:32 <Maedhros> ^^ you need to be able to tell if it's activated or not, as well as whether there's an error 22:18:19 <Maedhros> personally i'm not worried by the alignment breakage, but if others are... 22:18:45 <Darkvater> it did not bother me 22:18:46 <Belugas> i agree... it is easier that wway. 22:18:52 <Belugas> no other comments 22:18:55 <Belugas> ho... 22:18:55 <Belugas> yes 22:18:59 <Belugas> bravo 22:19:00 <Belugas> ;) 22:19:04 <Darkvater> and orange is already used for non-precisely-matching grf found 22:19:14 <Maedhros> hehe, thanks 22:19:46 <Maedhros> oh yeah, the one problem with it is that the grf info can extend beyond the bottom of the window 22:21:45 <Naksu> Darkvater: err 22:22:20 <Naksu> doesnt the vista directx9 emulation thingy provide directsound? 22:22:53 <Darkvater> Naksu: it's only software emulated, not hardware 22:22:57 <peter1138> yes "emulation" 22:25:33 <Wolf01> 'night all 22:25:38 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host175-238-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 22:30:02 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl8-40-244.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:30:39 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl8-40-244.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 22:33:03 <Belugas> good night all 22:39:28 <Maedhros> so, commit and fix the overflowing lines later? 22:41:28 <Darkvater> +const uint MESSAGE_SIZE = 1024; 22:41:31 <Darkvater> static const uint 22:42:15 <Maedhros> ok 22:43:19 <Darkvater> I doubt it needs to be that large, but ok 22:43:53 <Maedhros> hmm, the buffer in DrawStringMultiLine is only 512 bytes... 22:43:59 * Maedhros adjusts MESSAGE_SIZE 22:44:20 <Darkvater> even 512 is massive. 256 characters takes me ages to write ;p 22:45:20 <Maedhros> hehe, i can shrink it if you so desire ;) 22:45:33 <Maedhros> actually, it might be an idea to realloc it to the actual size of the string 22:47:18 <Darkvater> probably too much work 22:47:42 <Darkvater> you already know though what the maximum length can be 22:47:43 <peter1138> well 22:47:45 <Darkvater> which is 'len' 22:47:55 <peter1138> yeah, you know in advance how long it'll be 22:49:09 <Maedhros> true, although it'll get hairier when i finish support for custom messages 22:49:13 <Darkvater> hmm I wonder why the ottd mixer has support for non-11025 rates 22:50:29 <Darkvater> unless changed it's always 11025 22:50:43 *** Neonox [~Neonox@p57B2A5D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:50:46 <peter1138> it doesn't have to be though 22:50:50 <peter1138> with newgrf sounds 22:51:06 <peter1138> i have no idea how well they'll work though 22:51:49 <Darkvater> so it's still 1channel 8bit, but can have different rates? 22:54:19 <Darkvater> but 22:54:22 <Darkvater> gn all 22:54:38 <Maedhros> new alternative: http://devs.openttd.org/~maedhros/show_grf_errors_in_gui.diff 22:54:43 <Maedhros> night Darkvater 22:55:34 <lolman|DamnVB> Night all :) 22:55:36 *** lolman|DamnVB [~john@81.100.228.56] has quit [Quit: So Long, And Thanks For All The Fish] 22:56:13 <Sacro> woo yays! 23:07:31 <peter1138> Maedhros: heh, simpler :) 23:07:31 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B7588B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:07:31 *** green-devil [~rendmig@0x5735f025.vgnxx6.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [] 23:07:31 <Maedhros> :) 23:07:31 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Quit: HMage] 23:11:33 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B7588B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:18:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r8838 /trunk/ (9 files in 4 dirs): 23:18:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: Show newgrf error messages loaded in Action B in the newgrf gui 23:18:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: window. GRFs with an error have a warning symbol shown before the name. 23:18:34 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [] 23:18:50 <peter1138> woo 23:20:55 *** Sacro_ [Ben@87.102.80.3] has joined #openttd 23:24:26 *** Sacro [~Ben@87.102.80.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:25:21 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro 23:25:40 <peter1138> Maedhros: i think grfmsg(0, message); should be 1, not 0. 23:25:42 <peter1138> probably 23:25:48 <peter1138> no need to display it now 23:26:32 <Maedhros> mm, good point 23:30:32 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498EF16.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:33:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FFCE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:15 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498D2BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:37:42 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-61-130.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 23:40:23 <Maedhros> good night 23:57:46 *** KeeperOfTheSoul [~a@dyn-62-56-102-103.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #openttd