Config
Log for #openttd on 27th May 2009:
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00:00:52  *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAE9271.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd
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00:07:56  <z-MaTRiX> heheh found AI route fail already
00:08:40  <z-MaTRiX> (at lakeside)
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00:27:28  <SineDeviance> i still cant get this dedicated server to advertise
00:27:41  * SineDeviance bangs head against wall until blood spews out
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00:35:28  <Belugas> [20:30] * SineDeviance bangs head against wall until blood spews out  <--- that can take long... I've never seen a wall bleeding :S
00:37:47  <glx> lol
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00:44:06  <Eddi|zuHause> we have a saying in germany: "Der Kl?gere gibt nach" (about: "the smarter one gives in") :p
00:46:27  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: yexo * r16447 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix [FS#2922] (r16444): compiling on x86-64 failed
00:49:38  <fonsinchen> Can we use ONSF_NO_STOP_AT_INTERMEDIATE_STATIONS as default nonstop type for aircraft and ships? It describes better what they actually do and it would be nice for cargodist.
00:50:29  <Eddi|zuHause> there are non-non-stop orders for aircraft?
00:50:33  <SmatZ> intermediate stations?
00:50:37  <SmatZ> for aircraft?
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00:51:28  <fonsinchen> the nonstop flag is meaningless for aircraft and ships. It's just getting in the way.
00:51:57  <fonsinchen> At the moment it's set to ONSF_STOP_EVERYWHERE.
00:52:12  <fonsinchen> But only because that's incidentally 0.
00:52:45  <fonsinchen> I propose changing the order so that ONSF_NO_STOP_AT_INTERMEDIATE_STATIONS becomes 0 and modifying some checks accordingly.
00:53:02  <SmatZ> why?
00:53:46  <SmatZ> it would mean savegame bump
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00:53:50  <SmatZ> for no apparent reason
00:53:54  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like he wants to reduce the amount of special cases
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00:54:04  <SmatZ> simpler code?
00:54:16  <glx> how can this flag be a problem for cargodist?
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00:54:59  <Yexo> SmatZ: a savegame bump isn't necesary
00:55:24  <glx> Yexo: it is if flags order is changed
00:55:39  <fonsinchen> cargodist decides if an order is nondeterministic by looking at the nonstop flag
00:55:52  <fonsinchen> if an order isn't nonstop it's nondeterministic.
00:55:53  <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist, like cargodest, has general problems with non-non-stop orders, because it can stop at stations unknown to the link graph
00:56:07  <Yexo> why? All aircraft/ship orders can be fixed in AfterLoadGame (non-stop shouldn't be changeable for thsoe vehicle types anyway, so they should all be 0 now)
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00:56:26  <glx> aircraft and ships never stop on stations not in there schedule
00:56:44  <Yexo> exactly
00:56:48  <fonsinchen> Cargodist doesn't have problems with those orders. It just lets the vehicle load any cargo when it has a nondeterministic order.
00:56:50  <SmatZ> Yexo: true, but fonsinchen suggested changing values of flags :)
00:57:05  <Yexo> oh, that
00:57:08  <fonsinchen> glx: that's my point. We can as well express that in the nonstop flag.
00:57:10  <Yexo> that isn't a good idea indeed
00:57:36  <SmatZ> but you are of course thinking the right way ;)
00:59:01  <fonsinchen> We could also change the constructor of Order to set the nonstop to flag to ONSF_NO_STOP_AT_INTERMEDIATE_STATIONS.
00:59:52  <glx> fonsinchen: write a patch and submit it :)
01:00:01  <Eddi|zuHause> or you could simply change your check to "has non-stop flag or is aircraft/ship"
01:00:01  <fonsinchen> ok
01:00:26  <fonsinchen> Eddi: I could also do that, but I consider it a hack.
01:00:30  * SmatZ agrees with Eddi|zuHause
01:00:56  <SmatZ> fonsinchen: setting a flag that isn't used for that vehicle type isn't a hack?
01:01:20  <Eddi|zuHause> luckily i'm not in the position to decide that :p
01:01:22  <fonsinchen> Basically the flag is implicitly set to something stupid now.
01:01:35  <fonsinchen> I'd like to set it to something meaningfull.
01:01:39  <Yexo> no, the flag is unused
01:01:42  <Yexo> which is different
01:02:12  <glx> this change should be part of cargodist :)
01:02:20  <glx> if cargodist use it
01:02:30  <fonsinchen> the whole "type" field is explicitly set to 0 and the flag is checked in several places to be ONSF_STOP_EVERYWHERE for airplanes and ships.
01:03:20  <fonsinchen> like order_cmd.cpp:497, 563 ...
01:03:35  <glx> but as you need it, you can just write a patch and maybe we will accept it, else it will be a part of cargodist patch
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01:03:53  <glx> the result will be the same for you
01:03:54  <Yexo> fonsinchen: if you refer to line numbers, please refer to trunk lines
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01:04:34  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
01:05:02  <fonsinchen> oh, sorry. 443 and 509 then
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02:05:37  <SineDeviance> i finally figured out my problem
02:05:49  <SineDeviance> it seems it works when i reset my cable modem and router
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02:13:25  <SineDeviance> yeah it seems to be advertised
02:13:26  <SineDeviance> yay!
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03:50:18  <z-MaTRiX> hello
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04:43:19  <Pizen> good morning
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05:30:48  <z-MaTRiX> hi
05:31:03  <z-MaTRiX> :) interesting AI detected Jam
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06:19:57  <dihedral> haha
06:20:12  <dihedral> Sing a pore kid -> Sing a poor kid :-D
06:21:18  <petern> that's so 5 years ago
06:21:41  <dihedral> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=791627#p791627 <- lol
06:21:47  <dihedral> yes petern probably is :-P
06:24:42  <Singaporekid> oh you
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06:28:41  <Xaroth> dihedral: he's just being a git tbh
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07:23:29  <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=791635#p791635 <-- nice reply, dihedral :)
07:24:03  <dihedral> hehe :-)
07:25:06  <Forked> Comperende :\
07:26:03  <Forked> too early for the whoring of the forums.. coffeeee
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08:15:37  <Pizen> when making a patch, should I make it for the current revision, the latest nightly, the testing or the stable release?
08:18:17  <planetmaker> always head
08:18:34  <planetmaker> e.g. latest available version on the repository.
08:19:02  <Pizen> so 16447 for now?
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08:28:18  <Pizen> I'll take that as a yes
08:29:06  <dihedral> Pizen, svn up, THAT revision!
08:29:13  <dihedral> and of trunk
08:29:46  <Pizen> current HEAD is presumably 16447
08:29:49  <Pizen> trunk of course
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08:29:59  <Pizen> (that's what SVN tells me anyway)
08:30:08  <dihedral> then you have your answer
08:30:12  <Pizen> good then =)
08:30:20  <Pizen> just making sure I do not write stuff in vain
08:30:29  <dihedral> you already did
08:30:46  <Pizen> ...
08:30:50  <dihedral> and again!
08:30:51  <Pizen> I meant ... bleh =p
08:30:52  <dihedral> :-D
08:34:25  <Pizen> quick question
08:34:35  <Pizen> when were the strings changed?
08:34:39  <Pizen> (what rev?)
08:35:08  <dihedral> which strings?
08:35:10  <dihedral> langauge?
08:35:14  <Pizen> no, uh
08:35:21  <Pizen> just the removal of the explicit ID
08:35:44  <dihedral> i have no idea what you want :-P
08:35:59  <Pizen> well it isn't vital anyway, I just ...
08:36:28  <Pizen> well, I wanted to update the "buy land area" patch, but it used the old STR_5808_CAN_T_PURCHASE_THIS_LAND format
08:36:41  <Pizen> and as far as I can tell, that'd be STR_CAN_T_PURCHASE_THIS_LAND now
08:38:04  * Pizen compiles
08:38:18  <dihedral> you can search english.txt for that ;-)
08:38:22  <dihedral> if you find it, congrats
08:38:47  <Pizen> I didn't need to change the string, just find the correct enum to put in the source code
08:38:52  <Pizen> and I did, in strings.h
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08:40:29  <dihedral> well done!
08:40:55  <Pizen> well I missed the _ERROR part of the prefix, so I'll have to compile again - but thanks!
08:41:16  <dihedral> like i said - search in english.txt to get the id
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08:41:48  <Pizen> I don't need the ID
08:41:51  <Pizen> oh, OH
08:41:56  <Pizen> for when I develop stuff myself
08:42:03  <Pizen> I'll keep that in mind
08:42:14  <Pizen> thanks ^^
08:44:30  <Pizen> oh joy it works
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08:50:19  <Pizen> now, to update the cargodist patch
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08:53:51  <Pizen> what is the current view on patch "packs"?
08:54:02  <dihedral> they dont live long
08:54:06  <Pizen> that figures
08:54:14  <dihedral> you get a bunch of 'users'
08:54:25  <dihedral> and if you approach it like alain - they are very annoying
08:55:03  <Pizen> I'm packing them up for my own sake, just figured some other people might be interested - I realise the odds of my taste in patches probably doesn't match with that of many other people, though
08:55:30  <dihedral> if you are prepared to get a bunch of 'uh add this' and 'i want that'
08:55:36  <Pizen> I'm not
08:55:37  <dihedral> and keep your work up to date
08:55:38  <Pizen> =P
08:55:42  <dihedral> and post win32 bins
08:55:47  <dihedral> and fix bugs
08:55:55  <Pizen> well
08:56:07  <dihedral> and find out in which patch the bug was caused
08:56:15  <Pizen> as said, I'm not
08:56:16  <dihedral> and and and
08:56:20  <dihedral> aye
08:56:27  <Pizen> so I'll just leave it be and use it for friends and myself
08:56:34  <dihedral> :-)
08:57:28  <Pizen> in what way did alain approach it, though?
08:58:06  <dihedral> read the kgat thread
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08:59:19  <Pizen> I see
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09:08:02  <Pizen> do you mind all these questions?
09:11:48  <dihedral> if someone wants to make a patchpack he should not expect that amount of support in applying his first patch and being told how to compile
09:12:05  <dihedral> that person most likely has no clue of the code, or how to code
09:12:15  <dihedral> and therefore is just not the right person to make a patch pack
09:12:49  <dihedral> you can simply read that thread and understand
09:13:49  <dihedral> it's harsh - yes, but nobody here wants to constantly have to babysit such a person
09:14:06  <dihedral> then we might as well just do the work ourselves
09:15:01  <planetmaker> Pizen, if you are interested in some client-side only patches, I can recommend you to have a look at http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ottdbash/repository/browse/autostart/patches (It's a shameless plug, yes :P )
09:15:28  <dihedral> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=43723 <- lol
09:16:01  <Pizen> dihedral, well no, I agree
09:16:01  <dihedral> hehe planetmaker
09:16:04  <dihedral> :-P
09:16:16  <Pizen> planetmaker, I'll have a look at that
09:16:51  <dihedral> i loved it when alain mentioned he had tortoisesvn installed but did not find the 'compile' button :-D
09:16:58  <planetmaker> hehe. If you're interested in starting with a client-side only patch pack, you might start there :)
09:16:59  <Pizen> ... XD
09:17:00  <Noldo> I never really understood what the point of patchpacks is
09:17:01  <Pizen> also aww
09:17:06  <Pizen> that's kinda cute actually
09:17:16  <dihedral> hehe
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09:17:19  <dihedral> uh
09:17:22  <dihedral> hello Rubidium
09:17:22  <planetmaker> uh :)
09:17:26  <planetmaker> Hello Rubidium :)
09:17:31  <Pizen> I also read earlier someone asking about "where to put the patch file to make it work ingame"
09:17:34  <Rubidium> 'lo
09:17:38  <dihedral> how is you sir?
09:17:55  <Pizen> planetmaker, I'm not really that interested in patch packs
09:18:23  * Rubidium wonders how long it takes till he gets sent away again
09:18:43  <planetmaker> Pizen, sorry, didn't read whole backlog. I thought you considered to do one yourself - though only for you and a few friends :)
09:18:51  <planetmaker> hehe @ Rubidium :)
09:19:00  <dihedral> Rubidium, stay :-)
09:19:03  <planetmaker> ^^
09:19:17  <dihedral> the channel feels so empty without you :-)
09:19:44  <planetmaker> hm... it helps to have a newer hg version than 1.0.36
09:19:53  <planetmaker> no error on hg up anymore :)
09:19:59  <dihedral> :-P
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09:20:33  <Rubidium> looks like you can use a package manager that updates hg for you ;)
09:20:49  <Pizen> planetmaker, nah, I'm just applying a few patches and afterwards distributing the binaries to the friends I play with.
09:21:12  <planetmaker> well... Rubidium my packet manager didn't find a new one. But once I told it where to get it, it accepted it flawlessly :)
09:21:14  <dihedral> "but you English-speaking colleagues propably not to be a very celebrated" <- WHAT?
09:21:51  <planetmaker> but probably I didn't tell yast the proper repository source. So... nvm :)
09:22:15  <Pizen> yeah, about that ... there seems to be quite some problems with the English on the boards at times
09:22:17  <dihedral> "But to me, and so many helps you.." <- hehehe
09:22:37  <planetmaker> "what?"
09:22:39  <Pizen> not that I'd mind normally, but sometimes it reaches the point of no intelligibility
09:22:46  <dihedral> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=791668#p791668
09:22:57  <dihedral> Pizen, hehe might be a 'bug' in phpBB :-D
09:23:12  <Noldo> it's a feature
09:23:18  <dihedral> :-P
09:23:55  <planetmaker> he...
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09:25:10  <Pizen> well, cargodist seems to crash when somewhat directly applied to the newest rev. Seems like I have to get my hands dirty :/
09:25:42  <planetmaker> hehe. the patch is not like a clean solution afaik either
09:26:15  <Pizen> it's not just a diff of the cargodist mercurial to trunk?
09:26:30  <Rexxars> I was thinking about making an OpenTTD tshirt, to complete my geek tshirt collection.. wouldnt that be awesome? :D
09:26:32  <dihedral> i love the forum topic: " Help! Server!"
09:26:33  <planetmaker> oh, that might be, probably will be.
09:26:46  <planetmaker> ^ @ Pizen
09:27:03  <Pizen> then how would it not be a clean solution? unless you mean the actual implementation not being clean ^^
09:27:13  <dihedral> not implemented nicely?
09:27:18  <planetmaker> but doesn't mean that the patch intrinsically is a good solution to the problem it tries to solve :)
09:27:19  <dihedral> ^^
09:27:20  <Rubidium> Rexxars: I think someone already tried that
09:27:45  <dihedral> does orudge not have a shop?
09:27:51  <Pizen> nono, I get it. I thought you were talking about the patch not being the best way to get the code in there
09:27:52  <Rubidium> Rexxars: http://www.cafepress.com/openttd
09:27:53  <dihedral> i recall something like that
09:27:59  <planetmaker> Pizen, yes, I mean that. And not sure the approach of it is the desired solution to cargo destinations.
09:28:14  <Rexxars> cool.. not a big fan of cafepress tho, spreadshirt usually does a better job :)
09:28:19  <dihedral> thanks Rubidium :-)
09:28:26  <dihedral> was trying to remember that url
09:28:31  <Rubidium> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=39405&start=0 <- well, suggest it ;)
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09:29:21  <dihedral> Rubidium, a mug with the intro game on it could be fun :-D
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09:35:11  <Pizen> what makes TTDPatch interesting? ie. why is it still active (if it is)?
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09:35:35  <Rubidium> that you can disable everything*
09:36:08  <dihedral> * <- hehe
09:36:22  <dihedral> Pizen, why would it not be active?
09:36:23  <Rubidium> (* everything is not everything when you want to play under a Windows from the NT family, anything later than ME)
09:36:53  <Pizen> well, it just seems to me that TTDPatch is OpenTTD with less features. But I've never tried it
09:36:57  <Pizen> TTDPatch, that is
09:37:02  <Hirundo> ttdpatch still has some stuff openttd doesn't have (e.g. custom bridge heads)
09:37:03  <dihedral> ??
09:37:10  <Pizen> oh, I didn't know that
09:37:13  <dihedral> they are 2 different things Pizen
09:37:17  <Pizen> I know
09:37:26  <dihedral> then the one cannot be the other ;-)
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09:37:49  <Pizen> I didn't say it was. Just that my impression was that whatever TTDPatch has done, OpenTTD has also
09:37:52  <Rubidium> neither OpenTTD's features are a superset of TTDPatch's features nor are TTDPatch's features a superset of OpenTTD's features
09:37:54  <Pizen> that turned out to be untrue though
09:38:10  <Pizen> well, that answers my question quite well
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10:10:00  <Amr0d> hi
10:10:42  <Pizen> hi
10:10:57  <Pizen> hmm, what exactly is "moving average length" and "moving average unit"?
10:11:09  <Pizen> other than magic
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10:14:39  <Nester> morning peeps
10:15:53  <Nester> iam running @ the moment a server can some look fore it on the server list?
10:16:07  <Nester> **dutchBase** its namend
10:16:21  <Noldo> http://www.openttd.org/en/servers
10:17:31  <Pizen> not there
10:17:45  <Nester> well ist not on that servers list! how long does it takes untill the main server will see my server running
10:17:55  <jonty-comp> 0 seconds, usually
10:18:00  <jonty-comp> is it dedicated?
10:18:30  <Nester> its on my priavte computer!
10:18:40  <Nester> runnign mohaa on it  too
10:18:51  <jonty-comp> check firewalls and things then is all I can suggest
10:18:59  <jonty-comp> and check it's on internet mode and not lan mode
10:20:30  <Nester> well i restarted the game
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10:24:28  <Amr0d> I still need a 4 way 6 track junction
10:24:30  <Amr0d> :(
10:24:39  <Amr0d> But I am to stupid for that I think
10:29:38  <Yexo> do you really need such a big junctions? (do you already have trains running?
10:29:47  <Yexo> if not, try a 4 way 4 track junction first
10:31:00  <dihedral> Amr0d, you can look at the openttdcoop junctionary, it's in the wiki at www.openttdcoop.org
10:31:10  <Amr0d> yea I did
10:31:14  <dihedral> Nester, make sure you are forwarding the udp ports not just the tcp ones
10:31:23  <Amr0d> but there are no 6 track junctions
10:31:27  <Amr0d> only 2 and 4
10:31:51  <dihedral> style would be the same
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10:32:33  <Yexo> Amr0d: there you go http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/images/7/7d/Psg102_bbh01.png
10:32:57  <dihedral> hehehe
10:32:59  <Amr0d> errr......no
10:33:17  <dihedral> these openttdcoop junctions are insance :-)
10:33:22  <dihedral> errrr.....yes
10:34:03  <Yexo> http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/images/d/d0/SandboxGame35.png another one
10:34:39  <Amr0d> I want to know how long it takes to build such a junction
10:34:53  <Yexo> depending on the player from a few minutes up to an hour :p
10:35:03  <Amr0d> an hour?
10:35:12  <Amr0d> atleast two days here
10:35:12  <Yexo> I have no idea
10:35:18  <Amr0d> 3 with corrections
10:35:19  <Amr0d> ^^
10:36:10  <dihedral> Amr0d: then start smaller
10:36:21  <dihedral> or just waste the 3 days you need
10:36:23  <planetmaker> I think a full-style 4-way BBH with two tracks per direction will take me more than an hour. I rather think two.
10:36:24  <Amr0d> I did but it doesn't work
10:36:34  <planetmaker> I only start it, if I'm sure I want to spend the evening on it :)
10:36:37  <Yexo> you're far better off gettnig the techniques that were used to make the junction (split-before join, double bridges, etc.) then copying an exising junction
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10:37:00  * dihedral nodes at Yexo
10:37:03  <dihedral> *nods
10:37:04  <dihedral> hehe
10:37:07  <dihedral> nodes :-P
10:37:13  <planetmaker> and spending three days initially on it is no waste. It will teach you what works and what not
10:37:14  <Yexo> planetmaker: I had no idea, so I did a random guess
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10:37:31  <planetmaker> Yexo, there are people who build such things way faster than me.
10:37:51  <Amr0d> I could build a junction, thats not the problem but when I am finished it looks like puking rails all over the field
10:37:51  <dihedral> XeryusTC :-P
10:37:55  <planetmaker> I always exercise some kind of perfectionism :) E.g. not a single slightly slow curve etc ;)
10:38:04  <planetmaker> doubling every bridge / tunnel etc.
10:38:24  <dihedral> planetmaker, it's a game - sure it's a waste of time :-P
10:38:47  <planetmaker> Amr0d, you should really just get a couple of games from our archives and have a look there how different hubs were built.
10:38:52  <planetmaker> you might then get the hang of it.
10:38:56  <planetmaker> dihedral, yes, sure :)
10:39:58  <planetmaker> but can be an enjoyable waste :P
10:40:46  <dihedral> uh yeah it can :-P
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10:40:57  <dihedral> addicting
10:41:14  <dihedral> hehe - anonymous openttd addicts :-P
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10:49:09  <planetmaker> hehe
11:13:14  <Hirundo> hg.openttd.org gives http error 500 - internal server error
11:13:52  <Hirundo> git results in the same error, svn does work
11:18:26  <oskari89> 10000 lakes scenario in progress :)
11:18:59  <oskari89> Based on heightmap of Finland..
11:23:12  <oskari89> It _really_ has 10000 lakes :P
11:24:01  <SpComb> one boat in each lake
11:24:19  <oskari89> :P
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11:29:39  <dihedral> SpComb, you aint gonna get that far :-D
11:29:41  <dihedral> not with yapf :-P
11:30:02  <petern> shouldn't be a problem
11:30:06  <petern> if they don't have orders
11:30:31  <oskari89> Hmm, it's nice to test how ships go from place to another in this one ;)
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11:42:08  <planetmaker> he, that guy with the bus stuck on the pavement is actually right. I can re-produce that.
11:44:39  <planetmaker> FS#2909 ^
11:46:41  <Hirundo> I couldn't reproduce the pavement thing, but if I deleted a DTRS with a stopped bus inside, it wouldn't go anywhere afterwards
11:46:57  <planetmaker> It worked here :)
11:47:12  <planetmaker> it would then jump from the left pavement to the right and back, turning on each side.
11:47:25  <planetmaker> kinda teleporting over the road in between :D
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12:13:22  <Hirundo> What is the preferred variable name for a variable of type Train *, t or v?
12:13:44  <Yexo> currently it's all v
12:13:50  <Yexo> but maybe SmatZ want to change that
12:14:07  <Rubidium> I'd personally go for '*v' (Vehicle) as '*t' is used for Towns
12:14:49  <Hirundo> Thanks, I'll go for v now
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12:50:26  <Amr0d> wohey
12:50:35  <Amr0d> I did it
12:50:42  <Amr0d> build my own junction
12:50:53  <Amr0d> looks abit weird but it works
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13:10:25  <Belugas> hello all
13:16:27  *** mikk36|work [~mikk36@ntsrv.lakrito.ee] has joined #openttd
13:16:35  <mikk36|work> hey :)
13:16:53  <mikk36|work> it's nice to see that road vehicles station handling has been finally fixed
13:17:11  <mikk36|work> no pointless queueing for one single station when there are others available
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13:19:14  <Belugas> they have? darn... another thing been addressed withouth me noticing
13:19:40  <mikk36|work> 6 stations combined to one and buses share them just fine
13:19:46  <mikk36|work> no clogging up
13:20:38  <Ammler> mikk36|work: maybe you just have luck.
13:20:47  <Yexo> FS#1944, it's still not perfect, but the worst bug was fixed in r14703
13:20:48  <mikk36|work> several games in a row already
13:21:02  <mikk36|work> all 6 stations are rather equally used
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13:22:50  <Hirundo> Is gcc 3.4.5/MinGW supported by OpenTTD, or is it too old?
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13:24:22  <Yexo> I have that exact version working here
13:27:45  <Rubidium> it's the only 'stable' gcc for mingw :(
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13:51:20  <Eddi|zuHause> why do they have such big problems getting gcc4 running?
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13:52:02  <Belugas> gcc4 has still not received the shoes he ordered ;)
13:52:04  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: because you're trying to run it in a chroot with /dev and /proc ?
13:52:38  <Rubidium> the question is, which gcc4 ;)
13:53:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really understand what you just said
13:53:37  <Rubidium> s/with/without/ ?
13:56:07  <Rubidium> anyhow, gcc4.3, gcc4.4 and gcc4.5 work fine on my computer
13:59:49  <Eddi|zuHause> then what exactly is the holdup to declaring it "stable"?
14:00:39  <Rubidium> hmm, 'they' as in the mingw people ;)
14:01:28  <Rubidium> they complain about broken compilers and then they promised to release gcc4.2 'soon', which changed into release gcc4.3 'soon', which changed into release gcc4.4 'soon', which I don't trust anymore
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15:16:57  <PeterT> nobody talks?
15:17:24  <PeterT> whatever
15:17:27  *** PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-209-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:20:32  <Roujin_> who's PeterT? evil twin of petern?
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15:21:43  <Rubidium> a template of Peter
15:22:01  <Roujin_> :)
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15:29:39  <z-MaTRiX> hi
15:30:00  <nicfer> heya
15:31:09  <Belugas> funny...  nobody talks, and he quits...  Why didn't he started a conversation instead??
15:31:16  <Belugas> people... go figure...
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15:32:26  <z-MaTRiX> found bug in AI
15:32:44  <Eddi|zuHause> lucky you, keep it.
15:33:05  <Eddi|zuHause> hang it on the wall of your hunting chamber
15:33:15  <z-MaTRiX> "Your script made an error the index 'station_manager' does not exist"
15:34:07  <Eddi|zuHause> that is most likely known... refer to the AI's thread
15:34:39  <Yexo> yes, it's known
15:34:43  <z-MaTRiX> ok
15:35:13  <z-MaTRiX> is there a log file with AI-debug?
15:35:20  <Yexo> nope
15:41:42  <z-MaTRiX> was searching for it
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15:56:55  <XeryusTC> Amr0d> I want to know how long it takes to build such a junction <- depending on the junction from half an hour to half a day
15:58:32  <Amr0d> http://img29.imageshack.us/my.php?image=amr0dtransport10apr1945.png&via=tfrog
15:58:47  <Amr0d> after trying and trying I managed to build my own
15:59:02  <Amr0d> was pretty hard in my opinion but it works very good
15:59:33  <Amr0d> costs about 70m EUR :)
15:59:56  <Amr0d> most of it was spend to flatten the land
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16:01:18  <Eddi|zuHause> that's one of the reasons why i think such junctions are the wrong approach...
16:01:32  <Eddi|zuHause> why flatten the landscape if you can take it to your advantage?
16:02:20  <petern> urgh
16:02:21  <petern> how ugly
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16:02:40  <petern> and an attack of signals everywhere
16:03:06  <Amr0d> its my first one :)
16:03:09  <Amr0d> be patient
16:03:16  <Amr0d> I will build better ones
16:05:41  <Eddi|zuHause> we need a gameplay mechanism to thwart the whole signal-every-tile mess
16:06:14  <Eddi|zuHause> like limiting speed to 20km/h*signal distance
16:06:23  <petern> :D
16:07:34  <Eddi|zuHause> that would be so cool to force the coop people to a 15 tile distance when they want to go 300km/h :p
16:08:12  <Ammler> lol :P
16:08:16  <Amr0d> thats crap
16:08:45  <Amr0d> otherwise I couldn't send hundreds of trains on my rails
16:09:03  <Eddi|zuHause> it would add another dimension to deciding an optimal train length
16:09:08  <Ammler> a switch Be1ugas/Eddi mode
16:10:06  <Eddi|zuHause> why "switch"? in no place i used the "r"-word ;)
16:10:32  <Ammler> :-)
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16:14:13  <Ammler> well, that junction of Amr0d has nothing to do with coop.
16:14:33  <Amr0d> is there a difference?
16:14:42  <Eddi|zuHause> no, but it shows a certain direction
16:14:46  <Amr0d> aslong as it works it should be ok
16:14:47  <Ammler> except it is using the same game engine ;-)
16:15:36  <Ammler> that is more like a wiki.openttd.org junction :-)
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16:15:52  <Eddi|zuHause> and i wasn't referring to his junction specifically. i was formulating a new challenge to the "we take every challenge" people :p
16:16:13  <Amr0d> its my first one and i am lucky :)
16:16:20  <Amr0d> because it works
16:17:00  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: of course, it would be nice to find a way "around" :-)
16:17:03  <Eddi|zuHause> as in "i hereby challenge you to a (strict) 15 tile signal distance game"
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16:18:32  <Belugas> [12:12] <Ammler> a switch Be1ugas/Eddi mode  <--- that was sneaky!  It almost is good enough for a kick!
16:19:19  <Ammler> ah, I tried to make it secret from you, m?h, I failed :-D
16:19:35  <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, that would be part of a per-game config, a bit lke the goal stuff
16:20:14  <Belugas> Ammler, even if i do not pollute the channel with all the insanities laying in my head, i still read most of it when at work
16:20:17  <Belugas> :)
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16:21:44  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it could be a simple (mental) game restriction, but it could be useful to have a gameplay mechanism that enforces/encourages certain behaviour
16:22:00  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: btw, the 1st or 2nd cargodest coop game with celestar had signal gaps like that and most junctions were included to stations.
16:22:01  <Eddi|zuHause> like the physics simulator enforcing curve radius
16:22:18  <Ammler> (we are able to play that style)
16:22:25  <Ammler> just not many of us :-(
16:24:07  <Ammler> http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Dev_Server#.22Subrules.22_for_current_Pax.2FCargo_Destination_game
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16:25:27  <Ammler> "3) Block signals are every 15 tiles"
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17:05:25  <Eddi|zuHause> one thing i noticed with long signal distances is that the block length should be platform length + junction length, otherwise you increase the signal distance at stations
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17:12:52  <petern> um
17:12:58  <petern> you do?
17:13:44  <Eddi|zuHause> well, yes. you have one signal before the junction and one signal behind the platform
17:13:57  <Eddi|zuHause> inbetween are no safe waiting locations
17:17:14  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16448 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2909]: road vehicles ending up on the pavement when they are in a drive through station that got removed due to bankruptcy
17:19:00  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16449 /trunk/src/engine_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2924]: vehicle recolouring wasn't done for engine preview/news
17:22:22  <petern> heh, "Fix"
17:22:31  <petern> vehicles have never ever been recoloured in the news message
17:23:25  <Rubidium> why do it for the build vehicles gui and not there?
17:23:41  <petern> who knows
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17:27:06  <Chruker> Can the newgrf stations have layouts where the tracks turn or switch direction?
17:27:18  <petern> no
17:27:37  <Eddi|zuHause> they should have, but petern screwed it up :p
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17:29:11  <Belugas> liar liar, pants on fire
17:29:13  <Chruker> 2nd Q: Are the sounds in openttd the original ones? If so are there any projects aiming at replacing them?
17:29:31  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
17:29:35  *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B6FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
17:29:45  <Ammler> (and yes)
17:29:45  *** Muxy [~benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd
17:30:14  <Muxy> Kiss from Goulp
17:31:11  <Belugas> Lick from Belugas
17:31:22  <petern> Punch from Ammler
17:31:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i should sue this goulp guy for sexual harrassment
17:31:58  <Muxy> thanks men
17:32:47  <Belugas> who said we are men?
17:33:09  <Belugas> who said we were boys?
17:33:18  <Muxy> hum i suposed there's minimum one...
17:33:53  <Muxy> should i says, thanks shadocks
17:34:07  <Muxy> *say
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17:36:20  <Belugas> we are electronic entities floating on an eternal flux of strange and marvelous particles
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17:38:03  <Prof_Frink> charmingly strange.
17:38:47  <Sacro> who me?
17:40:10  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: translators * r16450 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:40:10  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-05-27 17:39:46
17:40:10  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 2 fixed by khaloofah (2)
17:40:10  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: danish - 2 fixed by ThomasA (2)
17:40:10  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: english_US - 2 fixed by WhiteRabbit (2)
17:40:11  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: indonesian - 2 fixed, 8 changed by anansboga (10)
17:40:13  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: romanian - 1 changed by CrystyB (1)
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17:58:23  <Wolf01> hello
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18:30:40  <Belugas> Goulp kissed you
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19:37:44  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16451 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r16449): crash when a spectator (or dedicated server) received news about new engine
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20:37:13  <EoD> hi
20:39:06  <Belugas> hi
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20:46:19  <Wolf01> 'night
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20:49:50  <Belugas> soooo  boringly vague... does not even deserve the usual Go Search answer -> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=43730
20:50:07  <Belugas> Mommy Mommy! Gimme Gimme!
20:50:38  *** FooBar_ [~chatzilla@ip56581491.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd
20:51:02  <z-MaTRiX> hey
20:51:24  <FooBar_> hi
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20:57:21  <Belugas> bye bye, time to hit the road
20:57:26  <Rubidium> yes Belugas, we know you want to go home ;)
20:57:32  <Belugas> :D
20:57:35  <Belugas> i want?
20:57:36  *** ctibor__ [~ctibor@gprs2.vodafone.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:57:38  <Belugas> i CRAVE!!!!!
20:57:38  <Rubidium> got to Mommy! :)
20:57:40  * Belugas is gnoe
21:02:42  <Prof_Frink> Are you my mummy?
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21:06:22  <FooBar_> is it always this of a ghost town around here?
21:06:35  *** Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Quit: Bitches.]
21:06:42  <FooBar_> I'd expect some more activity given the length of the user list and all...
21:06:45  <Rubidium> it is when there's nothing special to talk about or nbodoy to bash
21:06:57  <Prof_Frink> Where's Sacro when you need him?
21:07:20  <Rubidium> in Huhll?
21:07:27  <Sacro> zHm?
21:07:30  <FooBar_> you can try and bash me, but that might make me leave :P
21:07:53  <Rubidium> bash: FooBar_: No such file or directory
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21:07:59  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: you rang?
21:08:00  <Rubidium> sorry, it failed
21:08:06  <FooBar_> lol :)
21:08:25  * Prof_Frink bashes Sacro
21:09:08  <Sacro> ow :(
21:09:22  <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: There's no H in Ull
21:10:07  <FooBar_> There's two in Huhll ;)
21:10:16  <Rubidium> it's no unsigned long long, but a Huh long long
21:10:28  <Prof_Frink> Y'what, eh?
21:11:13  <EoD> hint64_t?
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21:12:53  <Prof_Frink> You're talking nonsenser!
21:13:36  <Rubidium> did I ever talk non-non-sense?
21:14:30  <Prof_Frink> No. But you're talking nonsenser than usual.
21:25:52  *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc
21:26:11  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: nonce sense?
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21:34:46  <welshdragon> if(nonsense=true)bash Sacro
21:35:09  <welshdragon> i have no idea if that makes any sense
21:35:23  <Eddi|zuHause> checking the result of an assignment, always great ;)
21:36:37  <Prof_Frink> welshdragon: while :; do bash Sacro; done
21:36:57  <welshdragon> hmm
21:37:19  <Eddi|zuHause> :(){ :|:& };:
21:37:22  <Prof_Frink> bash bashing.
21:37:23  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: I don't see the problem, just bash Sacro anyway :)
21:37:24  <Prof_Frink> ESOD!
21:37:39  <Yexo> I've no idea what that does, but I'm not going to try
21:37:50  <Prof_Frink> It's the Evil Smiley Of Death.
21:37:54  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: hmm I should really type that on my bash prompt, ideally as root
21:37:59  <SmatZ> just to see what it does
21:38:04  <Prof_Frink> Look up "Fork Bomb" on wikipedia
21:38:38  <Eddi|zuHause> the way i see it, ":" is a parallel-recursive function
21:38:52  <SmatZ> & doesn't even need to be there
21:39:00  <SmatZ> (at least last time I tried it ;)
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21:46:28  <welshdragon> i tried forkbombing my macbook
21:46:38  <welshdragon> they have forkbomb protection
21:46:52  * welshdragon goes to forkbomb his vista machine
21:48:13  <Prof_Frink> ulimit, iirc
21:48:25  <welshdragon> yep
21:48:56  <SmatZ> some linux distros have "rf -Rf /" protection
21:50:15  <Prof_Frink> alias rm='rm --preserve-root'
22:03:10  <Sacro> unlink /
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22:21:47  <Prof_Frink> Or just go for a good old fashioned dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sda
22:22:27  <SmatZ> will that work without bs= ?
22:23:01  <Prof_Frink> I don't know, and I'm not going to try.
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22:28:05  <Eddi|zuHause> it's using a default bs of 1024, or something
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23:03:20  <Chruker> is it just me or are the rail and road ai libraries on bananas outdated compared to what people have been posting on the forum?
23:04:00  <Yexo> there are newer versions on the forum, but they are still waiting on feedback before I'll upload those to bananas
23:04:07  <Yexo> at least I hope so
23:05:11  <Chruker> is it the licensing thingy you are waiting on feedback for?  or just whether or not the modified versions work?
23:06:03  <Yexo> no, whether everyone is ok with the modified version
23:06:03  *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
23:06:16  <Yexo> but it's quite some time I checked those thread, I'll do so now
23:07:11  <Chruker> Could also use a ship/canals pathfinder
23:07:22  <Yexo> feel free to write one ;)
23:07:44  <Yexo> I probably have some (old) code to help you get started if you want
23:07:55  *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-13-34-135.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tsch?ss]
23:08:29  <Chruker> It cant hurt :-)
23:09:24  <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/boatai.zip <- a ship ai I wrote quite some time ago
23:09:41  <Yexo> main function is problably only constructino lines between to random docks or so
23:09:51  <Yexo> but there is a working ship pathfinder in there
23:09:59  <Yexo> feel free to use any code under gpl
23:10:23  <Chruker> nice
23:11:43  <Yexo> and for updated pathfinder you can also look in the code for the available AIs
23:11:58  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16452 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: don't trigger station animations when the station was deleted in the same tick
23:12:01  <Yexo> as far as I know all of them are under gpl
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23:13:11  <oskari89> Station animations?
23:13:20  <oskari89> Is that possible? O_O
23:13:28  <oskari89> Hmm..
23:13:33  <Yexo> yes, several newgrfs already include them
23:13:47  <oskari89> Is station sound possible too?
23:13:57  <Yexo> quite possible, but I'm not sure about that
23:14:35  <Rubidium> oskari89: not on deleted stations ;)
23:14:57  <oskari89> Would be nice if, for example, electric catenary feeder station would have 50 hz buzzing stationary sound :)
23:15:22  <oskari89> Planned to Finnish Rail Infrastructure & Stations set.
23:15:27  <SineDeviance> hah i love waking up to my openttd game and having a billion dollars
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23:31:12  <oskari89> Yexo: Is it possible to have stationary sound on level crossing? Like relay ticking? :)
23:31:24  <Yexo> I don't think so, but again I don't know
23:31:32  <Yexo> ask frosch when he's around again
23:31:42  <oskari89> Okay :)
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23:35:46  <oskari89> Would be a blow on certain enthustians at Finland if it is possible ;)
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23:37:56  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: yexo * r16453 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix: Move some code around so a company is no longer used after deleting it
23:38:27  <Yexo> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=791401#p791401 How to do a discussion NekoMaster style:
23:38:39  <Yexo> He: OpenTTD is better then TTDPatch
23:38:47  <Yexo> someone else: but TTDPatch does ... better
23:38:52  <Yexo> he: I don't know about that
23:39:04  <Yexo> it's so easy discussing things that way :p
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23:40:20  <oskari89> :DD
23:40:53  * SmatZ has NekoMaster in his Foes list
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23:41:11  <Yexo> I dislike the foes list, since post from foes still mark a topic as unread
23:41:20  <SmatZ> yeah :(
23:41:25  *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
23:41:47  <Yexo> and when I used it, I read replies from other people,then ended up checking the reply from my foe anyway because I couldn't follow the discussion
23:41:54  <SmatZ> "invisable" "giuve" "simular" ... in one sentence :-x
23:42:01  <SmatZ> hehe
23:42:03  <SmatZ> true
23:42:42  * oskari89 is wondering how to draw this: http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiedosto:Liikenteenohjauskeskus_Pieks%C3%A4m%C3%A4ki.jpg
23:42:42  <SmatZ> and all his sentences look like this
23:42:45  <Yexo> normally I don't care about some spelling mistakes, it's more the contents of his posts I dislike
23:43:00  <SmatZ> that too :)
23:43:07  <SmatZ> there is a limit though...
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23:49:46  <Eddi|zuHause> oskari89: you start with one pixel, then put the next one next to it, then another one, and so on, until you have a satisfactory set of pixels
23:52:31  <SineDeviance> hey guys i have a question
23:53:13  <SineDeviance> what's the biggest map you could run stable and smooth on a dedicated server running on a 1500mhz athlonxp and 512meg of ram?
23:53:17  <SineDeviance> oh and winxp
23:53:30  <Yexo> that really depends on the amount of vehicles
23:53:38  <Yexo> but as always: just try and see what works
23:53:43  <SineDeviance> okay
23:53:51  <Yexo> the memory won't be the issue
23:53:59  <SineDeviance> yeah i'm running 512x512 right now with maybe 80 trains and 20 aircraft
23:54:04  <SineDeviance> it's running smoothly so far
23:55:24  *** Aali_ is now known as Aali
23:57:35  <Eddi|zuHause> back with miniin i had a game that was getting slow with about 120 trains
23:58:05  <Eddi|zuHause> but that had general speed issues, so a current trunk game should be better than that
23:58:12  <Eddi|zuHause> 1500mhz is plenty
23:58:16  <SineDeviance> okay
23:58:17  <SineDeviance> awesome
23:58:53  <SmatZ> openttdcoop is running ~512x512 games with >1000 trains
23:59:03  <SmatZ> and ~1.5GHz CPU is sufficient for that
23:59:07  <Eddi|zuHause> original TT was starting to get slow on a 60MHz computer with 80 trains
23:59:18  <SineDeviance> SmatZ, seriously? that's pretty amazing
23:59:26  <SmatZ> so unless you are going to have that many trains, you can play 1024x1024 maps :)
23:59:40  <SineDeviance> SmatZ, haha give me enough time and i could :D
23:59:48  <SineDeviance> the most i've ever had on a singleplayer game was 2800
23:59:52  <SineDeviance> 2048x2048
23:59:57  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: yexo * r16454 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqvm.cpp: -Fix (r16181, r16241): fix the try/catch bug fixed in r16181 and reintroduced in r16241 again, this time without breaking the regression test.

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