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00:03:32 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:06:22 *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@client-86-31-243-12.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Nice Scotty, now beam my clothes up too!] 00:08:57 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0afdb2.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:13:10 *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@client-86-31-243-12.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 00:22:47 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 00:24:46 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.9.250.146] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 01:00:10 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:09:15 *** zodttd [~me@24.144.92.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:16:02 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:06:17 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 02:06:56 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c636.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:10:51 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep] 02:11:46 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:17:50 <Vadtec> who here is responsible for managing the wiki? as in adding extensions n such 02:20:32 <PeterT> Rubidium / TrueBrain are the website personel 02:23:53 <Vadtec> ok, i wrote an extension to mediawiki that might be useful to openttd, was just gonna pass it along to them 02:24:54 <PeterT> if you don't mind me asking, what does the extension do? 02:25:11 <Vadtec> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TODOListProgressBar 02:25:26 <PeterT> also, it's 4 AM in Europe which is where they are residing. if you can, stay until the morning and give it to them when they get back 02:25:41 <Vadtec> and there are examples at http://wiki.collectiveirc.net/page/TODO_List_Progress_Bar:Example 02:25:57 <PeterT> interesting 02:25:59 <Vadtec> ah ok, i will be up for the next few hours, so ill try to catch them then 02:26:08 <Vadtec> please keep in mind 02:26:17 <Vadtec> the examples are out of sync with some of the features i added in today 02:26:28 <Vadtec> im currently updating them right now 02:32:16 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0ab294.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 02:36:35 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:4809:e833:97c2:49c8] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:10:09 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 04:14:41 *** Max| [~Max@c83-253-96-194.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:35:05 *** zodttd [~me@24.144.92.44] has joined #openttd 04:56:03 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75CF0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:56:21 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75EF0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:56:34 * Vadtec wonders what time Rubidium / TrueBrain usually wake/make their presence known 05:17:38 *** Max| [~Max@c83-253-96-194.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 05:47:46 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe32dc00-253.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:10:37 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:21:25 <planetmaker> Vadtec: and where does the wiki need a progress bar? 06:21:55 <Vadtec> im not saying it does 06:21:59 <Vadtec> its just a handy feature 06:22:04 <planetmaker> the usual ToDo lists on that wiki are usually quite useless 06:22:25 <planetmaker> created not by the person doing something but by someone who is interested in a feature 06:22:49 <Vadtec> you never know 06:22:51 <Vadtec> like i said 06:22:56 <Vadtec> its just a handy thing 06:23:11 <Vadtec> no harm in offering it to openttd 06:23:19 <planetmaker> given that I've not seen one progress-meeter which is current... yeah 06:24:25 <Vadtec> well, if Rubidium / TrueBrain want to use it, cool, if not, cool 06:24:35 <Vadtec> i wrote it because i have a need for it 06:24:41 <Vadtec> so its gravy for me either way 06:30:30 <planetmaker> try your luck then :-) 06:30:44 <planetmaker> I'd not hold my breath for each of them showing up today, though ;-) 06:31:03 <Vadtec> oh? 06:31:14 <Vadtec> well, whatever 06:31:33 <Vadtec> if i were hard up about it, i would have contacted them on the wiki already 06:31:44 <Vadtec> oddly or not, i havent done that yet :P 06:35:40 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:36:06 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:37:38 <Terkhen> good morning 06:38:31 <planetmaker> moin Terkhen (this time with tab completion ;-) ) 06:39:30 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:42 <peter1138> planetmaker, you heart the cake? 06:40:01 <planetmaker> yes, it's talking to me 06:44:03 <Terkhen> do cakes have interesting stuff to say? 06:44:14 <planetmaker> eat me! eat me! 06:44:34 <planetmaker> and it mumbles like "regret my calories", but I might have miss-heart 06:44:41 <planetmaker> heard? 06:44:52 <planetmaker> whatever 06:46:43 <planetmaker> irregular verbs suck even more than vaccum does 06:53:31 <peter1138> heh 06:53:43 <peter1138> you figured it out ;) 06:57:40 *** Sophira [~sophie@neo.theblob.org] has joined #openttd 06:57:50 <Sophira> Hiya. 06:58:17 <planetmaker> thanks for the subtle hint :-) 06:59:06 <Sophira> I'm really sorry for the irrelevancy to this channel, so I'll keep it short: Does OpenBVE have an IRC channel of its own? I'm looking for one but I can't find one. 06:59:34 * planetmaker has no idea what you're talking about 07:00:20 <Sophira> Okay. (It's a train simulator, not related to OpenTTD; I only tried asking here because Google suggests that at least some people in here know about it.) 07:03:52 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:05:41 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:07:01 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:16:45 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC678E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:17:31 <Sophira> I managed to answer the question I wanted. And now I'm installing OpenTTD, heh. (I'm trying out a few different simulators.) 07:18:12 <Sophira> Although I know they're different. 07:19:20 <Sophira> I might be back later :) 07:19:21 *** Sophira [~sophie@neo.theblob.org] has left #openttd [] 07:27:27 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.202] has joined #openttd 07:35:24 <peter1138> yeah, why do they put openttd in "simulation"? 07:38:50 <Wizzleby> I'm curious, where else would you put it? 07:42:56 <peter1138> strategy maybe 07:46:06 <Markk> Swedish Wikipedia: Strategy, English Wikipedia: "Business simulation game". 07:46:23 <Markk> Both are correct in it's own way. 07:55:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm really disagreeing with putting it in "strategy"... 07:56:00 <Markk> How come? 07:56:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd expect civilization-style games in strategy, but not sim city-style games [which includes OpenTTD] 07:56:59 <Markk> Hmm 07:57:37 <Markk> But you'll have to strategize to make it in OpenTTD. 07:57:48 <Eddi|zuHause> no... not at all... 07:58:32 <Eddi|zuHause> you can drop one single profitable line, and then build only for the beauty of it... 07:58:45 <Markk> Good point. 07:59:35 <Eddi|zuHause> plus, you get a great gameplay experience when you turn off competitors 08:00:10 <Markk> Mhm, when I'm playing on my own I always turn off competitors. 08:01:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but if it were a strategy game, removing competitors would also remove the need for 95% of the strategies 08:01:22 <Eddi|zuHause> which is not the case 08:01:26 <Sacro> Markk: when you turn off competitors you are playing on your own :P 08:02:30 <Markk> I meant single player mode. 08:07:02 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:08:07 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:11:19 *** heffer [~felix@mue-88-130-90-035.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 08:12:19 <peter1138> yes, it doesn't fit strategy very well 08:12:23 <peter1138> but it fits it better than simulation 08:13:18 <peter1138> "business simulation" is no better. it doesn't do that either. 08:13:47 <peter1138> also, chrome sucks :s 08:14:09 <peter1138> had to kill it as it was 700+200+100+25+25+25+20+15+15+15+15+15MB resident... 08:25:50 <Eddi|zuHause> simulation is a waaaaay better fit than strategy... 08:26:16 *** FloSoft [bouncer@www.siedler25.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:27:37 <peter1138> simulation implies realism 08:27:41 <peter1138> and we all know where that leads 08:28:18 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.25.99.137] has joined #openttd 08:31:09 <Ammler> every rpm distro does place openttd in strategy 08:31:24 *** FloSoft [bouncer@www.siedler25.org] has joined #openttd 08:31:36 <Ammler> and it is for sure no simulation :-) 08:32:37 <Ammler> well, maybe you can simulate car traffic with trains 08:36:03 <Ammler> you need strategy to become tycoon against others 08:42:19 <heffer> indeed :D 08:42:20 <heffer> Categories=Game;StrategyGame; 08:43:32 <Ammler> heffer: any idea, why you changed it? 08:43:48 <heffer> did I? 08:44:05 <heffer> i think i just copy over the desktop file 08:44:11 <heffer> lemme take a look 08:45:02 <Ammler> upstream desktop file only defines Game 08:46:57 <peter1138> probably nothing to do with the .desktop file 08:47:23 <heffer> Ammler, ah i remember why i did it: we have a package called games-menus which generates submenus for the games 08:47:36 <heffer> that doesn't work if the desktop file only specifies games 08:47:46 <heffer> well it would be placed in "Others" then 08:47:55 <heffer> and that's not what it deserves :D 08:48:11 <Ammler> peter1138: the Makefile does write the desktop file which default is Game; 08:48:36 <peter1138> 08:17 < Sophira> I managed to answer the question I wanted. And now I'm installing OpenTTD, heh. (I'm trying out a few different simulators.) 08:48:45 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3391.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 08:48:55 <peter1138> Ammler, and that implies it's nothing to do wtih the desktop file, because you wouldn't see it if you were just installing it 08:49:02 <peter1138> so it's in some package manager under simulation 08:49:43 <Ammler> yes, debian/ubuntu for example 08:49:58 <Ammler> no idea what Gentoo does 08:51:20 <Ammler> peter1138: if you install openttd, it does write the desktop file, where else is the group needed? 08:52:15 <peter1138> ? 08:52:33 <Ammler> imo, it is all about the desktop file :-) 08:52:44 <peter1138> i don't understand what you are asking 08:53:28 <Ammler> what else then the desktop file should it be related to? 08:53:50 <peter1138> you still make no sense 08:54:24 <Ammler> well, I just try to tell you that your "[10:46] <peter1138> probably nothing to do with the .desktop file" is wrong 08:54:39 <peter1138> it's not wrong 08:55:05 <Eddi|zuHause> one pressing reason against strategy is: there is no "victory condition" that you can work your strategy towards... 08:55:07 <peter1138> i was talking about how sophira found it under simulators in her package manager 08:55:08 <Ammler> what else? 08:55:28 <peter1138> and categories within a package manager will not have anything to do with .desktop files 08:55:43 *** heffer [~felix@mue-88-130-90-035.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:55:51 <peter1138> therefore, "probably nothing to do wtih the .desktop file" is correct 08:56:11 <Ammler> but the desktop file is what matters, imo 08:56:21 <peter1138> "simulation" isn't mentioned anywhere in the openttd sources except in the debian and os2 installtation stuff 08:56:45 <peter1138> Ammler, yes, it matters, AFTER it has been installed 08:56:46 *** heffer [~felix@mue-88-130-90-035.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 08:56:53 <Ammler> yep :-) 08:57:23 <peter1138> but afaik, it's not mentioned as "simulation" in any .desktop file 08:57:57 <Ammler> I guess, debian does that, dosen't? 08:57:58 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: but strategy appears even less... 08:58:02 <peter1138> Ammler, no. 08:58:18 <Ammler> ah ok, fedora and suse set that to strategy 08:58:52 <Ammler> as only "Game;" is "illegal" 08:59:18 <peter1138> debian has "Tag: game::strategy" in its package of it, heh 08:59:20 <Ammler> (there) 08:59:38 <peter1138> it's not illegal, it just means it ends up in Others, and somebody didn't like that 08:59:45 <heffer> so maybe upstream should settle on something there 09:00:02 <peter1138> we have, "Game" :p 09:00:07 <Ammler> on KDE, it has a ugly effect 09:00:19 <heffer> really? that being? 09:00:19 <peter1138> KDE *is* an ugly effect 09:01:14 <peter1138> 09:55 < Eddi|zuHause> one pressing reason against strategy is: there is no "victory condition" that you can work your strategy towards... 09:01:19 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, well, there is 09:01:29 <peter1138> it's called tycoon status... 1000 points 09:01:33 <Ammler> ah no, the "ugly" effect is that if you have only one App in a group, it shows up in the parent 09:02:00 <peter1138> Ammler, not my fault KDE is stupid 09:02:06 <Ammler> but with the icon of the parent group instead the icon of the app 09:02:24 <peter1138> report a bug against KDE i suppose 09:02:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a feature ;) 09:02:44 <Ammler> that was quite confusing :-) 09:03:47 <Ammler> peter1138: I like KDE because of the apps, I don't really care about the look and handling that much 09:04:35 <Ammler> rarely using the start menu 09:06:12 <Eddi|zuHause> my current start menu doesn't do this "collapsing" of menu categories anymore 09:06:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really know why 09:16:08 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:16:35 <planetmaker> hm... reading back the arguments "simulation" is a better fit than "strategy" 09:17:08 <peter1138> it's not 09:17:52 <peter1138> business simulation, okay 09:18:08 <planetmaker> which is obviously a sub-division of simulation ;-) 09:19:14 <Ammler> is there a argument for simulation already? 09:24:12 <Ammler> I read only arguments against strategy, none for simulation 09:25:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the argument was "which is closer to TTD: sim city or civilization" 09:37:36 <peter1138> hmm, openttd's network protocol isn't suited to realtime games :( 09:39:45 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:40:57 <peter1138> too much latency 09:40:58 <peter1138> hmm 09:42:16 <peter1138> 75ms is too much 09:48:03 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3391.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:48:36 <peter1138> what's a good system? :( 09:52:31 <Eddi|zuHause> zero-latency by quantum-entanglement 10:21:58 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@188.109.247.50] has joined #openttd 10:23:53 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: AS A VAGINA ONCE SAID: <yorick> SOMEONE BAN HIM] 10:24:32 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3391.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:28:22 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8dcfc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:31:32 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, how do you get the idea that that means zero latency? 10:32:08 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a joke, obviously... 10:32:24 <peter1138> negative latency :D 10:47:51 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.9.250.146] has joined #openttd 10:48:22 <heffer> i once listened to a guy talking about financial it systems and what latency requirements they must meet 10:48:58 <heffer> most of the financial it companies use fibre-optics as copper has too high latency :D 10:54:06 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 10:54:41 <peter1138> and nick leeson was on dial up 11:46:18 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8dc3b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:50:13 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DBEC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:52:31 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8dcfc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:58:57 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.9.250.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:01:37 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8dc3b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:05:32 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8dc3b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:06:25 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.9.250.146] has joined #openttd 12:08:28 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF85AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:13:54 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-110-101.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:16:59 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:5d6a:fbe6:e53f:4cd4] has joined #openttd 12:17:02 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:25:58 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.9.250.146] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:31:30 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 12:32:45 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3391.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:56 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.9.250.146] has joined #openttd 12:34:12 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 12:58:23 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 13:11:48 <Belugas> hello 13:23:39 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76BC4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:24:52 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75EF0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:25:07 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 13:30:50 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 13:37:01 *** snc [~snc@ip10.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37:02 *** welshdragon [~dragon@ip05.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:40:59 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has joined #openttd 13:42:39 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:57:59 *** heffer [~felix@mue-88-130-90-035.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 14:02:39 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@188.109.247.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:05:53 *** orudge_ [~orudge@75-149-149-225-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #openttd 14:12:44 *** snc [~snc@ip10.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 14:15:46 *** welshdragon [~dragon@ip05.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 14:31:26 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:48 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 14:41:35 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:43:08 *** MindlessTux [mindlesstu@mindlesstux-2-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #openttd 14:43:39 *** MindlessTux [mindlesstu@mindlesstux-2-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [] 14:43:49 *** MindlessTux [mindlesstu@mindlesstux-2-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #openttd 14:44:00 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF85AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:48:49 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@2001:1af8:fe2e:110::1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:05 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 14:55:03 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@2001:1af8:fe2e:110::1] has joined #openttd 14:59:56 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BE0B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:06:07 *** MindlessTux [mindlesstu@mindlesstux-2-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [] 15:15:43 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 15:16:04 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@77.106.157.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:21 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:30:41 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC678E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:31:18 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC365B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:00:48 <zachanima> which direction is regarded as north? 16:02:46 *** zodttd [~me@24.144.92.44] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:03:53 *** orudge_ [~orudge@75-149-149-225-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:20 <Belugas> if i'm not mistaken, it would be upper-left 16:13:32 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has joined #openttd 16:13:34 <Belugas> or 10:30h 16:13:41 <KenjiE20> officially it's straight up isn't it? 16:13:51 <Yexo> in the openttd code straight up is north 16:14:09 <Belugas> looks i don't remember that well 16:14:15 <KenjiE20> coop puts it top left 16:23:07 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: reboots..] 16:23:14 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has joined #openttd 16:30:06 *** zodttd [~me@24.144.92.44] has joined #openttd 16:31:34 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc43b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:41:59 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC365B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!] 16:42:29 <fjb> Quak frosch123 16:42:47 <frosch123> moin fjb :) 16:44:34 *** owenbnc [~owenbnc@yoda.zernebok.com] has joined #openttd 16:44:41 <planetmaker> KenjiE20: shall we push for a change? ;-) 16:46:40 * andythenorth andythenorth is north 16:46:47 *** owenbnc [~owenbnc@yoda.zernebok.com] has quit [] 16:46:53 *** orudge__ [~owenbnc@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 16:47:14 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:47:54 * planetmaker 's compass is failing ;-) 16:48:08 <planetmaker> andythenorth: geographic or magnetic? ;-) 16:48:25 <andythenorth> magnetic, definitely 16:48:36 <planetmaker> :-) 16:49:12 <planetmaker> frosch123: Featurette request: 'delete' button in the load game dialogue 16:50:20 <frosch123> ctrl+load? :p 16:50:38 <frosch123> deleting is stupid if there is no confirmation 16:50:47 <frosch123> confirmatio is stupid if you cannot select multiple items 16:50:53 <andythenorth> it would also be useful if ctrl+save quit the current game with no warning 16:51:35 *** orudge__ [~owenbnc@owenrudge.net] has quit [] 16:52:13 <planetmaker> frosch123: I don't necessarily subscribe to the last statement. But still 16:52:25 *** orudge` [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 16:52:25 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ 16:52:25 <planetmaker> it's true, that'd be the next featurette request ;-) 16:52:47 <planetmaker> but when one finds a broken savegame, it'd make sense to just hit delete straight away. 16:53:02 *** orudge` [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has quit [] 16:53:06 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:54:55 <frosch123> why should i delete useful testcases? :p 16:55:10 *** orudge` [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 16:55:13 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ 16:55:23 <planetmaker> :-P 16:55:34 *** orudge` [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has quit [] 16:55:41 <planetmaker> frosch123: indeed I keep around some broken ones, too. For that reason :-P 16:55:57 <planetmaker> andythenorth: http://img.openttdcoop.org/images/titlemenu.png <-- it also looks fine with a small border :-) 16:56:04 *** orudge` [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 16:56:07 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ 16:59:14 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:04:32 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF85AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:04:56 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:15:35 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@188.109.247.50] has joined #openttd 17:28:52 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:30:01 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF85AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:45:57 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r19988 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 17:45:57 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:57 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 12 changes by Hadez 17:45:57 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 12 changes by habell 17:45:57 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 11 changes by jpx_ 17:45:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 11 changes by alyr 17:45:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: irish - 44 changes by tem 17:47:10 <zachanima> Belugas, I was thinking in the naming of, say, stations 17:47:22 <zachanima> Belugas, regarding north 17:52:25 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 18:01:05 *** Max| [~Max@c83-253-96-194.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:02:02 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has quit [] 18:04:45 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 18:04:52 <Belugas> meeeee? 18:06:26 *** fjb is now known as Guest1007 18:06:27 *** fjb [~frank@p5485FF07.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:08:00 *** b_jonas [~x@dsl51B66BC6.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 18:10:34 <zachanima> Belugas, youuuuu 18:10:42 *** orudge` [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:10:53 *** orudge` [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 18:10:56 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ 18:11:08 <Belugas> whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy? 18:12:09 <zachanima> dunno 18:12:14 <zachanima> making a heightmap 18:13:41 *** Guest1007 [~frank@p5485D27A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:13:49 *** orudge` [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has quit [] 18:13:56 *** orudge` [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 18:14:52 <frosch123> i guess noone knows how deprecated the "industry type" of the AI-station-selection callback is since newindustries 18:18:00 <Yexo> is there any documentation for the values returned by GenericCallbackGetVariable ? 18:18:25 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ 18:18:25 *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ 18:18:28 *** mode/#openttd [+v orudge] by ChanServ 18:18:38 <frosch123> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Callbacks#AI_construction_purchase_selection_18_ and http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=IndustryTypes 18:18:43 <zachanima> with 16 height levels, do they span #000000 over #111111 to #ffffff ? 18:19:01 <frosch123> FE unknown (only for AI vehicle selection callback) <- no idea what that means 18:19:12 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has quit [Quit: Caught signal 15, Terminated] 18:19:16 *** orudge` is now known as orudge 18:19:23 <Yexo> ai wants to bulid a route but doens't know the source industry, or multiple source industries 18:19:46 <frosch123> either new industries always give fe, or they return the substitute type, or the callback spec is just broken/deprecated 18:20:54 <Yexo> cb18 is broken/deprecated 18:21:22 <frosch123> well for vehicles it is, but i did not notice it was also for stations :) 18:21:38 <Yexo> I didn't notice either till you brought it up now 18:23:00 <frosch123> well, someone on the forums asked about what industrytype to pass for towns :) 18:23:24 <Yexo> I know, but I couldn't find the documentation and forgot to check the callbacks page 18:23:49 <frosch123> i am at findindustrytype of newai.asm now :) 18:25:17 *** zodttd [~me@24.144.92.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:25:59 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3391.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:26:03 <__ln__> -12 18:26:27 <frosch123> ok, ttdp does the same as ottd. it just returns the global industryid. no substitute or other stuff involved. i.e. when newindustries are in use the variable is totally useless 18:26:56 <planetmaker> no, it must be an OpenTTD bug. The docu cannot be wrong ;-) 18:27:08 <frosch123> planetmaker: what docu? 18:27:32 <planetmaker> he :-) The newgrf wiki? I thought you checked there ;-) 18:27:44 <planetmaker> (as first, and only then the codes) 18:27:49 <Yexo> yes, but there doesn't exists any documentation for this case (cb 18 with newindustries) 18:27:58 <planetmaker> :-) 18:28:08 <frosch123> 83 B source industry type <- that is all :) 18:28:17 <Yexo> no documentation -> check how ttdpatch does it -> conclude both openttd and ttdpatch return useless values 18:28:21 <planetmaker> pretty obvious ;-) 18:28:38 * planetmaker hugs frosch123 and Yexo 18:28:57 <Yexo> returning the substitute industry type seems the most usefull, either that or return FE 18:29:24 <frosch123> yup, maybe we should start a topic at technical discussion to get no answer 18:29:42 <planetmaker> :-D 18:29:57 <Yexo> when we make such a topic now, they can't blame us for not trying when we chose an option in a month 18:30:12 <planetmaker> :-) 18:30:34 <frosch123> so, who wants to? 18:30:48 <Yexo> I'll write something up in a moment 18:39:07 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe32dc00-253.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 18:41:27 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:41:37 <frosch123> planetmaker: would you like to spent 20⬠for me on cake, anti-alcoholics and meat? or do you think you can spent more without someone of us bursting? 18:42:26 <frosch123> :p 18:42:37 <Yexo> you are coming to planetmakers this weekend too frosch123? 18:42:44 <frosch123> sure 18:42:50 <Yexo> :) 18:42:59 *** Zuu [Zuu@c-d2f1e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 18:43:25 <frosch123> i counted about 15 people, so quite crowded :) 18:43:42 <Yexo> that many? cool 18:43:50 <Zuu> at the partie? 18:44:38 <frosch123> or only 12? pm should know better 18:44:58 <planetmaker> I'm not 100% sure. I'm quite sure of 18:45:45 <planetmaker> Zuu, __ln__, frosch123 , Yexo , Alberth, Rubidium, TrueBrain, SmatZ, Eddi|zuHause 18:45:56 <planetmaker> I'm still not sure whether Ammler shows up :-) 18:46:01 <Zuu> I bought a new alarm clock which has the funny feature of requring both two AA batteries and an AAA battery to function. 18:46:06 * Zuu hopes Ammler shows up 18:46:07 <planetmaker> nor whether dih shows up 18:46:35 <planetmaker> ^ 18:46:36 <frosch123> i also counter planetmaker and fjb 18:46:52 <planetmaker> right :-) fjb has not a far drive :-) 18:47:02 <frosch123> and i thought there would be 5 dutch 18:47:13 <planetmaker> Hirundo said he couldn't make it :-( 18:47:18 <fjb> I will be there. 18:47:23 <planetmaker> great :-) 18:47:44 <planetmaker> let's hope the weather will be slightly better than the forecast 18:47:58 <Zuu> How's the forecast? 18:48:09 <planetmaker> occasional showers 18:48:19 <Zuu> ok 18:48:25 <planetmaker> ~18°C 18:48:32 <planetmaker> not very summer-like 18:48:41 <Zuu> All I miss in gore tex is just gloves and shoes. :-) 18:48:44 <fjb> German summer. :) 18:49:17 <planetmaker> he... forecast improved since this morning ;-) 18:49:25 <planetmaker> only 22% rain chance instead of 60% :-P 18:49:31 <planetmaker> tells how reliable it is ;-) 18:49:35 <Zuu> :-) 18:50:07 <Zuu> Bringing an unmbrella is probably a better way to keep the rain away than believing in the forecasts. :-p 18:50:10 <fjb> What do I have to bring along? 18:50:37 <planetmaker> haha @ Zuu . That's what I keep telling, too :-) 18:50:55 <planetmaker> fjb: maybe some cake and / or something for the BBQ? 18:51:06 <planetmaker> maybe you can make a nice salat or so? 18:51:09 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:51:17 * fjb thinks about buying a small English dictionary. 18:51:24 <planetmaker> :-) 18:51:24 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 18:51:28 <planetmaker> I've three around here 18:51:55 <fjb> Which day is the meeting? Saturday? 18:52:01 <Zuu> Yep 18:52:02 <frosch123> oh, i thought we would have three tables, for gemans, dutch, and the poor rest 18:52:20 * planetmaker bought today a "Bierzeltgarnitur" ;-) 18:52:36 * Zuu google translates.. 18:52:39 <planetmaker> So for 6 .. 8 people there's yet another table and seats :-) 18:52:42 <fjb> Is it usable without the beer? :-) 18:52:51 <planetmaker> fjb: maybe maybe... 18:53:09 <frosch123> Zuu: better use image search :) 18:53:12 <planetmaker> Zuu: party table + 2 benches 18:53:32 <Zuu> For some reason german -> english was the default on google translate. :-) 18:53:48 <planetmaker> http://www.roller.de/sortiment/detail/-/45/4508/1/-/-/rk/002105043900.html 18:53:52 <planetmaker> ^^ that exact one 18:55:09 <welshdragon> aah, #openttd 18:55:17 <planetmaker> always on topic 18:55:20 <planetmaker> :-P 18:55:22 <welshdragon> i forget i'm in here :P 18:55:35 <planetmaker> we do, too :-P 18:56:14 <planetmaker> but you returned :-) 18:56:21 <welshdragon> haha 18:56:56 <Zuu> Btw, is alcohol sold in regular drug stores (ammerican for the local place where you buy food, electronics etc etc)? Or do one have to visit a liquor store? 18:57:20 <welshdragon> i probably wouldn't have noticed if i gained ops either 18:57:56 <planetmaker> Zuu: you can get it basically everywhere 18:58:06 <planetmaker> groceries, gas stations... 18:58:12 <Zuu> Ok 18:58:24 <Zuu> Opposite of here then. 18:58:43 <planetmaker> yeah :-) But you need to have proof of age with you 18:58:50 <planetmaker> (if you look too young) 19:00:05 <Zuu> True, but a id-card is always usefull to have with you. 19:00:10 <planetmaker> yeah 19:00:48 <planetmaker> but honestly, you don't have to go shopping here for the beverages 19:01:19 <planetmaker> Make a small donation here ;-) 19:01:28 <Zuu> Ok :-) 19:01:52 <planetmaker> I'd only expect someone who comes by car to bring drinks or food 19:01:56 <planetmaker> (possibly) 19:02:02 <planetmaker> otherwise it's a real hassle 19:03:19 *** Max| [~Max@c83-253-96-194.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 19:05:05 <andythenorth> evening 19:05:37 <fjb> Moin andythenorth 19:06:23 <planetmaker> moin andythenorth 19:06:53 <Zuu> moin 19:07:38 <__ln__> "vielen Dank fÃŒr Ihre Online-Ticket-Buchung bei www.bahn.de." 19:07:39 <fjb> planetmaker: Where in Braunschweig do I find you? 19:08:20 <fjb> The DB is friendly online. :-) 19:08:33 * andythenorth should start BANDIT 19:08:33 <andythenorth> http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/big-lorry-blog/2010/06/wads-monster-aussie-roadtrain.html 19:09:00 <fjb> Cute truck. 19:09:50 <welshdragon> andythenorth: i thought you were having a break? 19:09:51 <Zuu> Nice, the germans are at least cleaver enough to use the ASL alphabet. 19:10:10 <andythenorth> I am...ish 19:10:18 <andythenorth> FIRS goes on.... 19:10:21 <andythenorth> ....endlessly 19:10:37 <andythenorth> I might get to 0.2 in the next few months 19:14:18 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 19:14:21 <frosch123> http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/big-lorry-blog/2010/06/06/Unloading%20Cattle.jpg <- looks interesting 19:14:39 <frosch123> but idoubt they also jump in like that :) 19:15:04 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:06 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/cb18.txt 19:15:12 <Yexo> did I miss anything important? 19:15:56 <planetmaker> [21:09] <Zuu> Nice, the germans are at least cleaver enough to use the ASL alphabet. <-- which one? 19:16:10 <planetmaker> or rather, what's the "ASL alphabet"? 19:16:14 <Zuu> pm: (Deutschschweizer GebÀrdensprache 19:16:25 <Zuu> http://www.sgb-fss.ch/r/d/abc_de.pdf <--- 19:16:41 <planetmaker> ah :-) 19:16:54 <frosch123> Yexo: looks fine 19:17:28 <Zuu> It's pretty much the same alphabet that they use in ASL which I learned last summer when I went to Canada. In Sweden about half of the letters are different. 19:17:53 <planetmaker> oh, that must suck, if it's so much different 19:18:53 <planetmaker> Yexo: reading that now... your proposal to return the substitute type seems reasonable 19:19:09 <planetmaker> it only is important for selecting this or that station type, right? 19:19:22 <Yexo> it's only used when an AI wants to build a newgrf station 19:19:23 <Zuu> http://home.swipnet.se/~w-84007/HANDALFABETET.GIF <-- the swedish one 19:19:32 <Yexo> in that case the newgrf selects which station to build 19:19:35 <frosch123> planetmaker: the callback also supplies the cargotype 19:20:21 <frosch123> so likely it is only used to match the graphics of specific industries, which fails in any case with new industries or opengfx 19:20:45 <frosch123> s/it/industry type/ 19:22:40 <planetmaker> why would it fail for OpenGFX? 19:23:07 <frosch123> the industries look different? so the station cannot match them 19:23:36 <frosch123> e.g. isr coal station looks like original coal mine 19:24:28 <planetmaker> well... but that's not an issue. At least I never found it one :-) 19:24:31 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 19:24:37 <planetmaker> It's a station. It may look different 19:24:48 <elho> the game mechanics page has train acceleration formulas giving km/h/day, are there ones that give topspeed at Nth tile? (or data needed for conversion like km/tile and h/day) 19:24:51 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [] 19:24:52 <frosch123> artits can come up with a lot non-issues :p 19:25:25 <Zuu> elho, yep it is possible to do the conversion though I don't remember where it is documented. 19:25:39 <Zuu> Other than in some SuperLib function. 19:26:54 <Zuu> http://noai.openttd.org/svn/lib-super/engine.nut 19:26:56 <elho> yeah, utsl always works, but might be the slowest solution ;) 19:27:09 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:27:29 <Zuu> It says "X km/h => X/27 tiles/day 19:27:29 <Zuu> " in a comment there. 19:27:38 *** zodttd [~me@24.144.92.44] has joined #openttd 19:28:29 <frosch123> Priavte <- i always wonder how people can misspell function names, and misspellt them the same on every occurence 19:28:55 <fjb> Cut and paste... 19:29:05 <Zuu> Or rather completion.. 19:29:06 <frosch123> must be :) 19:29:14 <Zuu> Thanks for the find though. 19:30:49 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3391.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:02 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-38-198.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:33:16 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-160-83.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 19:33:19 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 19:33:20 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC365B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:40:59 <elho> Zuu: thanks to that pointer searching for tiles/day i also found http://ftp.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=48512 19:42:31 <elho> and 1/(74*2*3/4/192/16) is about 27.676 19:52:07 <SpComb> lolwut, ftp.tt-forums.net 19:52:09 <SpComb> where did you get that 19:53:29 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 19:56:33 <elho> oh, heh. didn't even see that. blame google ;) 20:03:03 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF85AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:03:24 <elho> hmm, on the bottom of http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Vehicle_speeds , don't the table and picture contradict each other? the picture shows cl2 and a train going at 132 km/h, the table cl 2 is 111 km/h. or am i missing sth? 20:03:57 <elho> s/table/table sais/ 20:13:09 <Yexo> the table+text is not completely accurate, the actual function is to determine the max speed in curves is more difficult 20:14:37 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:15:15 <elho> has it been written down somewhere? 20:16:05 <Yexo> http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/3b01d0519d54/src/train_cmd.cpp#l327 <- in the code 20:16:26 <Yexo> I think it comes down to this: 20:16:37 <Yexo> num_turns = count the number of turns the vehicle makes 20:16:57 <Yexo> that is 4 in the image on that wiki page 20:17:21 <Yexo> then count the number of wagons between the first and last bend + 1 20:17:41 <Yexo> (there are 10 wagons, all between the first and last curve) 20:18:34 <Yexo> then commpute "value = num_wagon_between_curves / num_turns" rounded down to an integer value 20:18:58 <Yexo> in the image it'd be "value = 11 / 3 = 3" 20:19:09 <Yexo> <Yexo> num_turns = count the number of turns the vehicle makes <- actually substract 1 from the number of turns 20:19:17 <Yexo> then ues value as lookup in the table 20:19:26 <Yexo> value 3 -> 132 km/h for railroad 20:20:09 <Yexo> it'd be nice if you could write that down in a nice way on that wiki page 20:20:15 * Yexo quits spamming #openttd 20:22:19 *** Brianett1 [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:23:01 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23:11 *** Brianett1 is now known as Brianetta 20:23:21 <elho> ah, i also see where that 232 - .... formula from the coop guys comes from, the clamp part is what their wiki does not mention 20:25:30 <elho> Yexo: yes, i will note it down for myself anyway (i'm playing a few days a year and surely can not remember that during a longer pause ;)), so i'll be able to contribute it back :) 20:30:55 <elho> Yexo: my goel is to combine that with the acceleration formula, to get cl values that make sense on tiles after station and depot exits, where the required length is capped by the acceleration 20:34:31 <planetmaker> elho: you might also feel to fix the wiki :-) 20:36:04 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@89.246.207.181] has joined #openttd 20:42:16 <elho> planetmaker: <elho> [...] so i'll be able to contribute it back :) just said so ;) 20:42:38 <planetmaker> :-) sorry, missed it :-) 20:42:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@89.246.175.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:43:07 <fjb> Busy making the next planaet? :-) 20:43:16 <planetmaker> selective reading: first sentence, then last ;-) 20:43:33 <planetmaker> which reminds me... 20:43:37 <planetmaker> reading! 20:44:10 <planetmaker> I guess I'll resort to the same scheme: abstract and conclusions only ;-) 20:45:11 <frosch123> if they are the same, you do not need to read the rest :p 20:46:22 <planetmaker> :-) 20:46:22 <VVG> Is there a limit on how many different vehicles sets I can load in one game? I have quite a few train sets and many other grfs, and if I add US set, inside running game, my ships transfrom into some random sprites. I had same problem with George's long vehicles before, though I just gave up Lvs :( 20:46:26 <Zuu> hmm, good reminds me that I should make sure my conclusions are extra good well written in my thesis. 20:46:48 <planetmaker> VVG: then you ignored the big red warning box about changing newgrfs in a running game 20:46:58 <Zuu> And indeed, that's how I approach a long report as well. 20:47:13 <VVG> I sure did 20:47:17 <frosch123> and likely you did not enable support for multiple grf sets 20:47:22 <VVG> i did 20:47:30 <VVG> other sets are working fine 20:47:40 <planetmaker> the warning was there for a reason 20:49:23 <planetmaker> especially in the absense of "enable multiple newgrf sets" 20:49:51 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:55 <planetmaker> *newgrf engine sets 20:50:12 <planetmaker> then different sets may overwrite eachother 20:50:21 <planetmaker> which then results in basically a trashed game 20:50:42 <planetmaker> it's not a newgrf fault. It's not an openttd fault 20:51:08 <frosch123> night 20:51:14 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc43b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:19 <planetmaker> such destructive interferences may not be majore with two sets, but surely become more and more visible if there are too many 20:52:27 <planetmaker> but there's no hard limit 20:52:54 <planetmaker> it depends upon the individual newgrfs, what they define and expect to find 20:53:03 <VVG> seems i guessed right, it's a pity :( 20:53:16 <planetmaker> what did you guess? 20:53:33 <VVG> that it's a mix of grfs i have that is at fault here 20:53:39 <VVG> asked here to make sure 20:54:13 <Zuu> Night 20:54:18 *** Zuu [Zuu@c-d2f1e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:54:22 <planetmaker> you need to a) enable "multiple newgrf engine sets" from the main menu and b) select ALL newgrfs you want to use in the game and c) only then start the new game 20:54:38 <planetmaker> then you most probably won't have the problems, even with the very same newgrfs, that you have now 20:54:47 <VVG> they still can conflict :( 20:54:50 <planetmaker> it's all a matter of proper order 20:55:30 <VVG> proper order would be? 20:55:40 <planetmaker> a) b) and c) in that exact order 20:55:46 <planetmaker> you cannot fix your existing savegame 20:56:32 <planetmaker> one might try with reset_engines in the console, but not sure whether it'll help 20:57:51 <planetmaker> hm... maybe it's a good idea to allow changing newgrfs on an existing game only in debug mode :-) 20:58:41 <Ammler> everyone would run openttd in debug mode then :-P 20:58:59 <planetmaker> that's what I fear the result would be 20:59:29 <Ammler> I think, the red warning is more then enough. 20:59:42 <planetmaker> *should* be. 20:59:47 <VVG> They still can conflict, even with a,b and being true. :( 20:59:57 <planetmaker> Do they? 21:00:25 <planetmaker> Yes, they can conflict. But MUCH less likely 21:00:51 <VVG> i have two ships that look like info button icon 21:01:02 <planetmaker> a good guideline is though: one trainset, one, two, three road sets, one ship set, on plane set and that's it for vehicles 21:01:45 * elho is happy that he likes the stock gfx better anyway ;P 21:02:06 <planetmaker> VVG: maybe they look that way even without any other newgrf except your ship newgrf? 21:02:36 <planetmaker> and please give me your newgrf list, I'd like to see that :-) 21:02:39 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-160-83.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:03:04 <planetmaker> or maybe your savegame. easiest 21:03:05 <VVG> they look ok with just ship grf 21:04:10 <VVG> depending of grfs loaded stuff looks differently. I noticed such mix ups only with george' lvs (some time ago) and ships right now, though no idea, which ship set it is, i have both fish and newships 21:04:13 <VVG> wait a sec 21:05:08 <VVG> http://img808.imageshack.us/i/clipboard02x.jpg/ 21:05:24 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-16-59.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 21:05:27 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 21:07:17 <planetmaker> wow. 21:07:27 <planetmaker> And do you really use all those newgrf concurrently? 21:09:13 <VVG> trying to! :) 21:10:08 <Belugas> and i'm sure you are fully aware of wheat each and everyone of those grfs are adding to the game, don't you? 21:10:08 <planetmaker> can you give me the savegame? 21:11:09 <planetmaker> though I'm sure I don't have all those newgrs, but still 21:11:13 <Belugas> meanwhile, me goes home 21:11:17 <Belugas> bye all 21:11:27 <planetmaker> have a good evening, Belugas 21:11:32 <VVG> i mostly am, since i had to go through all the avaible grfs i have to pick them 21:12:22 <Ammler> nice list 21:13:07 <fjb> I suspect the problem is NewShips and NewShips ECS extension together with the multi vehicle sets feature. 21:13:27 <VVG> http://rapidshare.com/files/399063234/Campbell___Co.__17th_Oct_2127.sav.html 21:13:27 <fjb> Bye Belugas 21:14:10 <VVG> i once had some industry sprites morphed, after trying to fix long vehicles by trying various combinations of grfs in a running game 21:16:25 <Ammler> you should also try to start with fewer, adding newgrfs during game is quite easier than removing 21:17:55 <fjb> Best is not to change the grfs of a running game at all, unless you really know what you are doing. 21:18:14 <Ammler> in his case, he doesn't :-) 21:19:13 <VVG> hmm, added us set after newly loaded game, now ships look fine 21:22:19 <planetmaker> I don't see any info sprites either 21:23:00 <planetmaker> but indeed: removing newgrf is even worse than adding new ones, which is most often ok 21:23:01 <andythenorth> Brick Transport Tycoon: http://www.flickr.com/groups/1239848@N21/ 21:23:42 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:27:33 <VVG> here are george's lvs http://img813.imageshack.us/i/clipboard03.jpg/ 21:28:00 *** lllugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c47c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 21:32:19 <planetmaker> interesting. I get the same 21:32:29 <planetmaker> they glitch. heavily 21:33:29 <planetmaker> they didn't always do that... 21:33:49 <VVG> i removed spain set from that list, in a game last screenshot from, and they stopped glitching 21:33:52 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8dc3b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:31 <VVG> i guess not many people play with such a long grf list? 21:37:00 <planetmaker> VVG: long lists tend to create problems at one place or another 21:37:36 <planetmaker> But whether many use it or not... hard to tell 21:39:11 <fjb> Long lists are possible if you know what you are doing. Some experimenting and learning from that is helpful. And don't change too many things at once. 21:48:13 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.25.99.137] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:50:47 *** Yrol_Denjeah [~SomeOne@hmbg-5f775cae.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 21:56:20 <Guest282> hey-ho 21:56:49 *** Guest282 is now known as z-MaTRiX 21:59:29 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 22:05:18 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 22:11:27 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> tells how reliable it is ;-) <-- weather forecast beyond 3 days is as reliable as betting on a football game... 22:12:38 <fjb> Too many molecules in the air to get their habits sorted out. 22:12:57 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:13:36 <__ln__> I demand pure molecule-free air. 22:14:05 <fjb> Rent a place on moon. 22:14:22 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF85AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:16:20 <planetmaker> good night 22:27:58 <SmatZ> good night, planetmaker 22:28:30 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BE0B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:19 *** Macha [~macha@109.76.11.204] has joined #openttd 22:43:46 *** Macha [~macha@109.76.11.204] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:44:03 *** Macha [~macha@109.76.11.204] has joined #openttd 22:48:33 *** Macha [~macha@109.76.11.204] has quit [] 22:50:54 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC365B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!] 22:57:43 *** _Muddy [~muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has joined #openttd 22:58:09 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:01:12 *** Muddy [muddy@2001:470:1f09:682::1014] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:05:03 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DBEC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Regel Nr. 1: Jeder hört auf mein Kommando! - Regel Nr. 2: Jeder bleibt auf dem Weg! - Regel Nr. 3: ... ... Der, der blÀht, als hinterster geht!] 23:05:48 *** _Muddy [~muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:06:30 *** Muddy [muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has joined #openttd 23:08:00 <PeterT> interesting hostmask ;-) 23:13:29 *** PeterT is now known as PeterT` 23:13:36 *** PeterT` is now known as PeterT 23:14:16 *** Yrol_Denjeah [~SomeOne@hmbg-5f775cae.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:47:00 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:59:21 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ]