Config
Log for #openttd on 14th March 2011:
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00:04:09  <supermop> hello again
00:10:26  <supermop> If you were working in a locomotive works, would you prefer northen or southern light for natural illuminaation?
00:11:04  <supermop> thaat is, would you want the brightest light, or the most consistent light
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00:24:59  <confound> I've only played with the vanilla industries so far. what's a good first set of extra industries to try out?
00:26:27  <supermop> i like FIRS
00:27:18  <confound> I'd like some new stuff but I don't know if I want to also deal with limited cargo acceptance and stuffl ike that
00:29:53  <supermop> Firs doesn't have limited acceptance
00:34:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i like PBI, it has few new cargos, but acception limits and primary industries that run out
00:35:26  <Eddi|zuHause> FIRS is the opposite, it has lots of new cargos but no acceptance limits
00:36:11  <Eddi|zuHause> ECS has both, but also has many configuration options. use this if you want extreme micromanagement
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00:40:14  <confound> thanks
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06:45:13  <Terkhen> good morning
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07:37:13  <planetmaker> moin
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09:46:22  <Wolf01> hello
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09:57:28  <Stefano_Gig> hi ^^
09:57:50  <Stefano_Gig> !disconnect
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11:10:44  <George> Hi. Question about bananas. Is it possible to change version description without uploading the GRFs?
11:11:05  <George> I wrote 14 mar 2010 instead  of 2011 :(
11:17:25  <planetmaker> not without database hacking
11:17:37  <planetmaker> hello also :-)
11:24:53  <planetmaker> and the only person who can do so is Rb
11:41:59  <George> So you think I sould just leave it as is?
11:42:16  <George> Hello also :)
11:42:37  <planetmaker> Well, depends on how grave you consider this lapse.
11:43:19  <planetmaker> Personally I'd not consider it much important. But personally I also leave out the date from the versions
11:43:36  <planetmaker> as it in my eyes makes it harder to find the last one due to too many numbers in the version
11:44:08  <George> BTW, may be bananas can be improved to use GRF version ("INFO" -> "VRSN") instead?
11:44:31  <George> Then the only question would be to specify in GRF correctly
11:44:51  <planetmaker> That probably would be nice :-) even though it's an internal number only. And successive grfs may come without
11:45:02  <planetmaker> good ones, of course come with it ;-)
11:46:19  <George> Who should be contacted with this suggestion?
11:47:03  <planetmaker> good question. Probably the bug tracker, section bananas, is a good place
11:47:19  <Rubidium> The version is hardcoded in the filename of the tars, so changing that ain't possible
11:47:46  <planetmaker> http://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?project=4&do=index&switch=1
11:48:05  <planetmaker> ah, yes, forgot about that
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11:49:51  <George> Rubidium: the question is would be possible to make bananas read this value from GRF instead of manually putting it. Same way as GRFID
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12:05:25  <Pulec> anyone plays openttd on netbook here?
12:05:45  <Pulec> 1024x640 is quite small for all windows but its still ok
12:06:05  <Pulec> better then any most portable devices except those big tablets with 1366px
12:06:07  * planetmaker doesn't play on a netbook but often has a window smaller than that
12:06:14  <Pulec> hehe
12:06:30  <Pulec> one can learn on play on that small screen
12:06:36  <Pulec> its all about window managing
12:06:58  <planetmaker> well. when I occasionally need many windows (when?) I can still enlarge it.
12:06:59  <Pulec> but nothing stops to connect a bigger screen
12:07:26  <planetmaker> oh, sure things stop me. Like I don't move my big screen onto my lap when sitting comfortably on the couch
12:07:32  <Eddi|zuHause> remember when you only had 640x480 screens, which the game was designed for?
12:07:34  <Pulec> true that
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12:08:08  <Pulec> i can play comfortably in bed and even with very small touchpad that samsung nc10 has its still very playable and fun
12:08:33  <Pulec> hehe i played TTD on 15" screen
12:08:41  <Pulec> it was 800x600 maybe
12:08:55  <Eddi|zuHause> nope
12:09:16  <Pulec> but I cant really understand how OpenTTD can be playable on ppc or 480x320 devices
12:09:26  <Pulec> or smaller screens 320x240
12:09:29  <Pulec> its very limited...
12:09:51  <planetmaker> Pulec, 13" is sufficient and my full-screen size ;-)
12:10:13  <planetmaker> but much smaller is not nice indeed
12:10:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i only have a 27" monitor
12:10:29  <Pulec> 13" with what resolution?
12:10:30  <planetmaker> and often windows are not designed for smaller than 640x480
12:10:35  <Pulec> hehehe 27 :)
12:10:41  <planetmaker> Pulec, 13" with 1280x800
12:10:42  <Pulec> true
12:10:50  <Pulec> thats nice
12:10:55  <Pulec> macbook?
12:11:01  <planetmaker> yeah
12:11:26  <Pulec> good for playing Minecraft too
12:11:54  <planetmaker> two computer game obsessions are enough, no need to start a 3rd ;-)
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12:21:50  <gsaurus> hm
12:22:28  <DanMacK> Hey all
12:25:39  <gsaurus> Hi
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12:33:20  <planetmaker> heya
12:33:34  <gsaurus> sup?
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13:09:50  <Belugas> hello
13:09:59  <planetmaker> hi Belugas
13:10:15  <Belugas> hi planetmaker
13:20:56  <Eddi|zuHause> # Und fliegt das Kraftwerk in die Luft, fÀngt jeder an zu strahlen
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13:22:59  <planetmaker> Und aus dem Keller ertönt das eintönige GerÀusch der Bartwickelmaschine. ;-)
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13:26:52  <Ammler> evil
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13:28:09  <planetmaker> It's like "wir wollen lÀcheln und nicht strahlen"
13:31:00  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i just googled around... this "Bartwickelmaschine" phrase is really unknown here...
13:32:32  <planetmaker> :-)
13:32:48  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe only noble people can afford such a thing :p
13:32:53  <planetmaker> :-P
13:36:50  <Eddi|zuHause> "Wir hatten doch nÃŒscht damals!"
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13:56:21  <krinn> hi,
13:57:39  <krinn> i hit a strange error, anyone see a reason why
13:57:45  <krinn> local vehList = AIVehicleList();
13:57:51  <krinn> if (vehList.HasItem(veh))	vehList.RemoveItem(veh);
13:58:23  <krinn> endup with an error "the index 'RemoveItem' does not exist
13:59:24  <krinn> it's on openttd 1.0.5, AIAbstract list have the RemoveItem protected functions, and from doc AIVehicleList() is a AIAbstractList
14:12:44  <Yexo> protected functions are not exposed to squirrel
14:13:15  <Yexo> either do something like: local vehList = AIList(); vehList.AddList(AIVehicleList());
14:13:23  <Yexo> or update to 1.1
14:14:50  <krinn> this should works with 1.1 so ? now that AIList have the function itself, i suppose any list are AIList now ?
14:14:59  <Yexo> yes
14:15:12  <krinn> cool thanks
14:15:51  <krinn> i solve it with : .SetValue(veh,-1); vehList.RemoveValue(-1);
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14:40:59  <Hyronymus> yexo, can you have a read on the mod section of the forum
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14:44:01  <Yexo> done, your message if fine
14:44:39  <Yexo> I do expect more ranting, although I hope not
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14:48:40  <Hyronymus> we'll see
14:48:47  <Hyronymus> get your pacifiers ready :)
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15:48:21  <krinn> Yexo: is there a way to get the refit capacity of an engine without actually building it ?
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15:52:11  <krinn> Yexo, i mean you can have engine X with capacity 10 pass (AIEngine.GetCapacity) can be refit to mail (AIEngine.CanRefitCargo), but how can i know before building it that "mail capacity will be Z when refit"?
15:52:22  <Yexo> not possible
15:52:30  <Yexo> no support from the newgrf specs, so impossible to do for openttd
15:54:35  <krinn> this nearly render unusable the option for an ai
16:01:40  <Yexo> yes, buying a single wagon, refitting it and storing the capacity is the only way
16:02:36  <krinn> a fast buy/sell doesn't imply money lost ?
16:03:16  <Yexo> only a little
16:03:27  <krinn> hmmm, too hard :)
16:03:29  <Yexo> the value of a vehicle diminishes over time
16:03:54  <krinn> should buy every vehicle in game at start, refit them to any possible cargo they can be refit with, get the info and sell them
16:04:04  <krinn> big money lost
16:04:22  <Yexo> even that isn't completely failsafe
16:04:24  <krinn> and this is worst for new engine (not a proof the ai have the money to buy that engine when it came out to test that)
16:04:39  <Yexo> the amount of cargo after refitting can depend on a lot of things, for example the year you refitted the vehicle
16:05:14  <krinn> sad such great feature became nightmare for a "simple" missing query
16:05:47  <krinn> and i suppose some newgrf are also dumb like "10 capacity for pass, refit to mail with 1 capacity"...
16:06:09  <Yexo> I doubt any are as dumb as that
16:06:45  <krinn> never seen it before, but even human can't get the info
16:07:11  <krinn> funny i didn't notice that when playing
16:07:44  <krinn> i wonder how many players refit their engine :)
16:08:36  <planetmaker> krinn, I guess they mostly refit the whole train
16:09:16  <planetmaker> But different capacities for different cargos is around a lot.
16:09:17  <krinn> for train it's easy, not so many wagons to trys, but airplanes :p
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16:10:57  <planetmaker> what about airplanes?
16:11:26  <krinn> it's not really doable to buy an airplane to check it's refit capacity, airplane cost a lot, not like wagon
16:11:30  <planetmaker> possibly you can get a list of refittable cargoes. But capacities is something the player has to test, too
16:11:45  <planetmaker> krinn, why is that not possible? Of course it is
16:11:48  <Yexo> but you can buy/refit/sell within a few ticks, so most of the time you won't lose any money at all
16:11:49  <planetmaker> money is not an issue
16:12:10  <krinn> Yexo, just check, human have big refit cost
16:12:21  <Yexo> ah, didn't think of the refit costs
16:12:23  <planetmaker> and in order to create some initial money just setup a passenger air route half accross the map. Then you're set
16:12:55  <krinn> now looking at bakewell luckett: 200pass -> refit to any for 19,850, not something cheap
16:13:44  <planetmaker> well. But that's what you as player have to do, too
16:13:46  <krinn> i have money flow running planetmaker don't worry, it's just i was looking at the refit option
16:14:07  <planetmaker> krinn, yes. But if money is no issue, a bit refit cost doesn't hurt you either ;-)
16:14:20  <planetmaker> And you'd only test that, if you know you need to ship XY via air route
16:14:58  <krinn> it's a bit a pitty, you can passby good engine without knowing it
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16:15:31  <planetmaker> hu?
16:16:00  <krinn> say you have a "TT engine" doing 10pass refit to mail it could do 12 mail, better than many engine with less 12 mail capacity...
16:16:14  <planetmaker> well, I compare a new engine to the ones I'm running. And then I decide upon autoreplace or not
16:16:48  <planetmaker> and engine refit... I take it as bonus. Not as something to rely on
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16:16:59  <planetmaker> that's what I have wagons for
16:17:22  <krinn> might work for a human, but i'm speaking about an ai
16:17:39  <planetmaker> where's the difference?
16:17:56  <krinn> well, i suppose a human will give up after 3-4 trys
16:18:08  <krinn> the AI will give up after gone 0 money
16:18:14  <krinn> or end up all tests
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16:20:44  <planetmaker> krinn, why would an AI do that?
16:20:51  <planetmaker> It's up to you to stop after 3...4 tries
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16:21:04  <krinn> :p
16:21:25  <krinn> because you can't guess 3-4 trys will be enough to get the best engine you're looking for
16:21:53  <planetmaker> it depends on 'best'
16:22:03  <lugo> http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Lunar :o
16:22:08  <krinn> in that case, i just speak about capacity
16:22:15  <planetmaker> which might be any combination of power, TE, speed and running costs (from my POV)
16:22:31  <planetmaker> engine capacity is boring and irrelevant to me
16:22:36  <Yexo> krinn: for fun: the speed can depend on the current cargo type the vehicle is refitted too
16:23:00  <DanMacK> lugo, Interesting link...
16:23:02  <planetmaker> Yexo, but only in the first half of months in odd years ;-)
16:23:02  <krinn> ^^ Yexo
16:23:37  <lugo> DanMacK, :p
16:23:45  <krinn> planetmaker, of course capacity isn't all, but this value "should" always be in your heuristic decision
16:23:54  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: in non-leap-years ;)
16:24:13  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, in leap years, it's the 2nd half of months ;-)
16:24:14  <krinn> why whould you pickup an egnine that cost 1$ run at 304330434 miles/s with a 0 capacity
16:24:26  <planetmaker> krinn, because the engine pulls wagons
16:24:45  <planetmaker> an engine is an engine. And not a wagon. For me at least
16:24:49  <krinn> you can't live without trains in your head :)
16:25:43  <planetmaker> krinn, yes. No point to run only engines. Unless it's a rail bus ;-)
16:25:52  <krinn> lol
16:26:14  <Yexo> planetmaker: krinn is not only talking about train engines, but also about road vehicles/aircraft
16:26:22  <Yexo> where you only buy a single 'engine' and no wagons
16:27:03  <planetmaker> :-) I prefer to call that vehicle - even though I know it all has an 'engineID'
16:27:33  <krinn> well, i refer as the vehicle as a build engine :)
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16:37:12  * Terkhen also finds that link interesting
16:37:38  <Terkhen> I wonder if it will allow to disable stockpiling via parameter
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16:39:27  <lugo> DanMacK, :p
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16:39:32  <lugo> oops
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16:52:23  <planetmaker>    c->money = c->current_loan = 100000ll * _economy.inflation_prices; <-- that line reads wrong, Eddi|zuHause
16:55:44  <Hyronymus> what are the || for?
16:58:17  <planetmaker> ask Eddi|zuHause ;-)
16:58:29  *** Hyronymus is now known as Hyr|LeShave
16:58:38  <Hyr|LeShave> time to get rid of that 5 day beard
16:58:45  <planetmaker> :-D
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17:09:23  <Eddi|zuHause> the "ll" means "long long"...
17:09:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i found the actual error, though
17:11:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not entirely sure about the internal type-casting... i was putting the "ll" there to make sure things are treated as 64bit-int... which might or might not be the case
17:11:31  <Eddi|zuHause> it's definitely not wrong, though
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17:16:49  <planetmaker> he, I read it as || (logical or) and wondered
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17:17:06  <zydeco> greetings
17:17:06  <Eddi|zuHause> you need a proper font then ;)
17:17:17  <planetmaker> ;-)
17:17:49  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i'm gone... do with the patch what you want...
17:18:13  <Eddi|zuHause> imho it's a sensible idea, and it doesn't really change any gameplay
17:18:33  <Prof_Frink> \o/ Drowning babies!
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17:21:08  <Eddi|zuHause> PS: the real error was that i didn't guttenberg the other line properly :p
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17:31:53  <planetmaker> haha :-)
17:32:30  <planetmaker> I like that verb :-P
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17:48:16  <Zonta> Good Morning afternoon
17:48:52  <Zonta> I want to know if its possible to have a patch for my server to limit terraforming?
17:50:13  <Ammler> there is a setting
17:51:56  <Ammler> (construction.terraform_per_64k_frames and construction.terraform_frame_burst)
17:52:39  <Ammler> another alternative is using basecost mod to make terraforming quite expensive
17:53:21  <Zonta> Is the terraform option is available in the gui?
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17:58:47  <planetmaker> no
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18:03:19  <Ammler> Zonta, basecost mod has GUI :-)
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18:10:51  <CIA-7> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22251 /branches/1.1/ (. bin/data/opntitle.dat src/object_gui.cpp):
18:10:51  <CIA-7> OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk:
18:10:51  <CIA-7> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Object variable 0x48 was not available in callback 0x15C (r22231)
18:10:51  <CIA-7> OpenTTD: [1.1] -Update: the intro game (romazoon)
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18:18:49  <Zonta> this feature construction.terraform_per_64k_frames is available only in 1.1 or its good to use in 1.0.5?
18:20:25  *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:20:49  <frosch123> 1.1 only
18:21:16  <Zonta> That a problem
18:21:24  <Zonta> Ok well
18:23:16  *** Hyr|LeShave is now known as Hyronymus
18:24:23  <planetmaker> no problem ;-)
18:25:42  <Ammler> [19:03] <Ammler> Zonta, basecost mod has GUI <-- ;-)
18:25:54  <Ammler> but without gui on 1.0.5
18:27:02  <Zonta> yeah but i don't want to increase the price of the terraforming i just want to limit it :p
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18:27:12  <Zonta> like in this 1.1 option
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19:03:34  <CIA-7> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22252 /branches/1.1/ (46 files in 5 dirs):
19:03:34  <CIA-7> OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk:
19:03:34  <CIA-7> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not resort town, industry and signs list directly in
19:03:34  <CIA-7> OpenTTD: OnInvalidateData(). There might be a scheduled rebuild which needs execution
19:03:34  <CIA-7> OpenTTD: first. So, only set a trigger for resorting [FS#4546] (r22249, r22248, r22247,
19:03:35  <CIA-7> OpenTTD: r22246, r22245, r22244, r22243, r22242, r22241, r22236, r22228, r22227, r22226)
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19:25:47  <confound> is there a default keybinding to just close the last window opened rather than 'close everything'?
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19:26:10  <Yexo> no
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19:28:24  <Belugas> ctrl+alt+left shift + del
19:28:33  <Belugas> ho... no.. already taken
19:28:36  <Belugas> damned
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19:54:11  <Prof_Frink> Belugas: Emacs keybindings for ottd?
19:54:33  <Belugas> Emacs?  dunno
19:54:45  <Belugas> no iToy for me
19:54:52  <Belugas> or else..
20:06:30  <peter1138> Emacs, not iMacs :)
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20:11:34  <Rubidium> it's still a toy ;)
20:13:16  <peter1138> Emacs? yeah
20:13:22  <peter1138> Real coders use vim :D
20:14:52  <Belugas> and real administrators wine
20:14:59  *** welshdragon_ is now known as welshdragon
20:15:09  <Prof_Frink> 378.
20:16:35  <Belugas> that feels like a unix joke...
20:18:11  <Prof_Frink> No, it's a reference.
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21:11:28  <Belugas> night!
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21:15:00  <CIA-7> OpenTTD: frosch * r22253 /trunk/src/company_cmd.cpp: -Change: Apply the same inflation to the initial loan as to the maximum loan. Note that this is no change to the economy; it only saves players some clicks when starting companies in later years. (Eddi)
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21:22:34  <krinn> where can i found the name of internal game settings like this one ? AIGameSettings.GetValue("vehicle.max_trains"))
21:24:17  <Spoons> Read the openttd.c*nf.
21:24:20  *** Spoons is now known as FauxFaux
21:25:20  <krinn> thank you FauxFaux, looks like it is :)
21:26:04  <frosch123> or "list_settings" in console
21:26:06  <SmatZ> krinn: list_settings console command
21:26:11  <SmatZ> :(
21:26:12  <frosch123> :)
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21:27:08  <FauxFaux> krinn: Or you can use 'list_settings' in the console.
21:27:14  <SmatZ> :P
21:27:17  <frosch123> lol
21:27:36  <krinn> lol
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22:02:29  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... that was quick... why do people complain that their patches take years until they get included? :p
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22:03:51  <krinn> because the complainers are french, and it's a national sport here ?
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22:12:56  <Terkhen> good night
22:13:04  <krinn> good night
22:14:09  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: I would rather complain that your patches got too fast to trunk :-P
22:14:28  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: that is really not my fault.
22:14:51  <Ammler> that is true, I wouldn't blame you :-)
22:15:05  <Eddi|zuHause> plus, the "patch" you mean was neither my patch, nor my idea...
22:15:13  <Ammler> well, I have no idea about the current patch
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22:19:09  <Eddi|zuHause> it really does nothing.
22:19:43  <Ammler> yeah, my comment was just a generic comment to your question ;-)
22:21:02  <Ammler> patches, which change gameplay are bad for us as we can't revert those like you
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22:21:49  <Eddi|zuHause> OK. YOU HEARD HIM. STOP CHANGING GAMEPLAY NOW!!!
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22:23:02  <Ammler> I meant you
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22:23:56  <Ammler> I know, you don't take that serious, as you don't care about us poor MPlers :-P
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22:24:43  <CIA-7> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r22254 /trunk/src/settingsgen/settingsgen.cpp: -Codechange: Make settingsgen only update the output file if it actually changed.
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