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00:00:01 <frosch123> night 00:00:05 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f56fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:50 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 00:58:06 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c31:286:537c:6d70] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:26:33 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Juo] 01:33:17 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 02:11:30 *** makubi [~makubi@85-127-91-247.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 02:13:47 <makubi> Hi, I got a question. I am running openttd dedicated server on debian, but if I start it, it says that I have to install a graphic set. 02:14:11 <makubi> Do I really have to install an graphics set? I do not want to use an UI on this server. 02:22:06 *** makubi [~makubi@85-127-91-247.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:26:40 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-137-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:31:28 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-140-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:38:57 <fjb> You have to load it, even if you have no grphics display. 02:59:12 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.176.96] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75A17.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B72BD4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:27:49 *** fjb is now known as Guest3266 05:27:50 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFCAC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:28:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 05:30:38 <andythenorth> bonjour 05:31:09 <andythenorth> have openttd devs taken away any more of my freedoms since last night? 05:34:38 *** Guest3266 [~frank@p5DDFC974.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:57:32 <Rubidium> andythenorth: ofcourse 05:58:13 <andythenorth> omfg 05:58:17 <andythenorth> :P 05:58:35 <peter1138> oh dear 05:58:46 <peter1138> i read that as... openttd daves :S 05:59:07 <andythenorth> Rubidium: I don't wan't to be treated as cattle, I want to be free 05:59:24 <peter1138> wan't! 05:59:36 <andythenorth> don't tell me how to spell 05:59:40 <andythenorth> my spelling is free 06:00:22 <andythenorth> incidentally does the linux kernel do anything to prevent users unintentionally writing crap all over their data? 06:01:34 <andythenorth> can I just swap two modules that behave entirely differently but use the same memory location? 06:01:37 <andythenorth> with no probelms? 06:04:58 <Rubidium> andythenorth: kernel modules? written yourself? 06:05:12 <andythenorth> no downloaded from arbitrary third parties 06:05:18 <andythenorth> who may or may not be around 06:05:32 <andythenorth> and may or may not have a license that allows you to patch / maintain the module 06:05:47 <Rubidium> when you load something into the kernel all bets are generally off 06:06:26 <Rubidium> it could well be some sort of hostageware or so 06:06:38 <Rubidium> and then your data isn't safe 06:06:42 <andythenorth> and linux guis make that easy to do? 06:07:37 <Rubidium> I have no idea; don't know any GUIs that (re)load kernel modules 06:08:04 <andythenorth> unfree! 06:08:53 <andythenorth> it's a symptom of rising unfreedom that linux users can't reload kernel modules whenever they like 06:09:28 <peter1138> i bet he's the sort of person who uses computers as Administrator/root 06:09:41 <andythenorth> also 06:09:43 <andythenorth> file formats 06:09:47 <andythenorth> symptom of unfreedom 06:10:03 <andythenorth> I should be able to order my bytes however I want, at my own risk 06:10:19 <andythenorth> the enforcing of a format is unfree 06:10:46 <Rubidium> but you have chosen for the unfreedom by chosing to install said software 06:11:17 <peter1138> i'm reminded of John Gilmore 06:12:15 <__ln__> at least 80 people shot dead 06:12:32 <peter1138> wtf 06:13:00 <andythenorth> it's not a fun news day :| 06:22:52 <andythenorth> hmm 06:22:56 <andythenorth> openttd is quite like ms 06:23:05 <andythenorth> it has done embrace-and-extend to ttdp 06:24:10 <andythenorth> implement the same API, then subtly extend the API in non-compatible ways 06:28:43 <andythenorth> and by offering them features, openttd hides from users all the ways in which they are being had 06:28:55 <andythenorth> locking them in and exploiting them 06:29:13 <andythenorth> openttd is an exemplary evil entity 06:30:35 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 06:33:33 <andythenorth> the use of the GPL is another symptom of this proprietary mentality 06:34:50 <andythenorth> openttd developers are behaving like an evil empire, limiting the freedoms of people with a license that imposes nothing but control 06:35:13 <andythenorth> the license insists the software must be free. That's unfree! 06:35:53 <andythenorth> controlling users by giving them the right to modify the software in any way they choose. Unfree! 06:49:40 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:01:49 <KittenKoder> o.O 07:02:26 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-097-091-125.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:07:31 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-78-102-233-235.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:09:21 <planetmaker> moin 07:09:31 <planetmaker> to the channel of the un-free ;-) 07:09:47 <KittenKoder> >.> 07:10:07 <planetmaker> KittenKoder: it's reference to a certain forum thread 07:10:45 <KittenKoder> Oookaaaay .... haven't seen it. 07:12:36 <planetmaker> andythenorth: good actually that we have you. Your painting skills are dearly needed to paint over the stains slavery leaves behind ;-) 07:12:54 <flitz> a need an advice ... again :( 07:13:32 <KittenKoder> Hmm ... perhaps someone can link the forum thread that I might share in this inside joke? 07:13:59 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=55875 <-- obvious title, eh? 07:14:08 <KittenKoder> TY 07:14:12 <andythenorth> it's dumb 07:14:30 <flitz> If I do something like: Train *virt = (Train*)calloc(1, sizeof(Train)); I want this virt-Train to behave like a normal one. I can fill it with the necessary data field values but how could I call a Train:: member function on virt ? 07:14:41 <andythenorth> from "you can't change newgrfs" to "it's fascism" in less than 2 pages of a thread 07:15:15 <planetmaker> ha, andythenorth: I just missed the word 'godwin event' - but yes, I don't quite recall it either 07:16:27 <KittenKoder> You were right .... it's dumb .. but at least your joke now makes sense to me. 07:17:16 * planetmaker needs a way to specify a minimum colum width: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Bridges <-- looks ugly... 07:18:38 <KittenKoder> Aaaw pooh. 07:19:05 <KittenKoder> I think I figured out how to really boost FIRS profits even with all the "hard" settings. 07:19:28 <KittenKoder> Quick question, anyone know if there's a problem with ECS? 07:19:38 <andythenorth> decompile FIRS and change the cargo payment rates? 07:19:40 <flitz> hm, nobody ? 07:19:43 <andythenorth> :P 07:20:19 <KittenKoder> Initial loan paid off in 3 years .... bah, sandboxed again. 07:23:43 <andythenorth> KittenKoder: if you want to lose the game a lot, try YACD, TAI, UKRS 2, high costs, PBI + start in 1890 07:24:06 <andythenorth> I think it's impossible using a 0k initial loan 07:24:21 <KittenKoder> 1890 start would make it harder. 07:24:25 <andythenorth> no RVs 07:24:46 <KittenKoder> No RVs with FIRS is impossible. :p 07:24:58 <KittenKoder> If you have all industries capable of closing. 07:27:02 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@124-168-112-144.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:30:29 <V453000> duh, profits :) 07:33:42 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DA97.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:33:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:04:28 <Terkhen> good morning 08:06:41 <V453000> hi Terkhen :) 08:06:55 <planetmaker> mooooorning :-) 08:07:31 <V453000> hi :P 08:11:08 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2059.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:13:23 *** Sacro [~ben@82.113.183.190] has joined #openttd 08:15:07 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:19:21 <Rubidium> flitz: I guess you need to call at least the constructor so it sets up the vtables properly 08:20:16 <Sacro> grr, my first class seat is going backwards :( 08:20:57 <Rubidium> what? They don't turn around seats in the train? 08:21:03 <Rubidium> how uncivilised 08:22:29 <Sacro> I know :( 08:22:47 <Sacro> and the only free thing I get is tea/coffee or water or a fruit drink 08:22:53 <Sacro> oh and wifi and a comfy leather seat 08:23:03 <Sacro> but the seams are rather harsh 08:23:04 <flitz> you have internet during train rides ? I'm jealous ;) 08:23:22 <Sacro> ooh, this seat is adjustable 08:23:41 <Sacro> I think I just dropped a sachet of milk into an air vent :` 08:23:42 <Sacro> :\ 08:32:42 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:32:45 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:38:35 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 08:52:53 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 08:54:26 <flitz> "flitz: I guess you need to call at least the constructor so it sets up the vtables properly" << hooray for inlined functions ! 09:05:42 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d8225ee.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:39:42 *** Sacro [~ben@82.113.183.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:52 *** Sacro [~ben@82.113.183.190] has joined #openttd 09:44:00 *** Pixa [~Pixa@85.210.68.107] has joined #openttd 09:44:02 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0096b5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:55:29 <Eddi|zuHause> something isn't right, the wikipedia page for the 03.10 says 20bar, but for 01.10 it says 16 bar... why would the two be different? 09:57:27 <Alberth> oh noes, not all information at the internets is reliable! 10:01:58 *** Sacro [~ben@82.113.183.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:19:59 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DA97.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:34:53 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@124-168-112-144.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:37:10 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@124-148-172-73.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:42:28 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:45:15 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@124-148-172-73.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:46:20 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@124-170-62-15.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:50:24 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@124-170-62-15.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:55:21 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@124-149-81-190.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:56:05 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecj87.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:56:24 *** ar3k [~ident@ecj87.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 10:56:26 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 11:00:24 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecj87.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00:56 *** ar3k [~ident@ecj87.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 11:00:58 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 11:06:09 <planetmaker> oh, now it suddenly became boring. This HvS guy has no new arguments anymore and kinda re-plays the same old story again and again ;-) 11:06:38 <MNIM> sounds like a forum 11:13:59 *** Sacro [~ben@94.117.16.190] has joined #openttd 11:20:04 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-097-091-125.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: flitz] 11:27:02 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@124-149-81-190.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 11:27:06 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:27:09 *** Pixa [~Pixa@85.210.68.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:32:19 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DA97.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:34:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:35:06 <orudge> frosch123: Cite enabled. (Conveniently, that one does come with Debian :) ) 11:35:27 <frosch123> :) 11:35:38 <frosch123> btw. what did you do with the dumphtml? 11:35:54 <frosch123> is it enabled, and what does it do with the output, if it is 11:36:02 <orudge> DumpHTML is actually just a .php scripot 11:36:04 <orudge> *script 11:36:06 <orudge> it's not an extension per se 11:36:19 <orudge> also, it'll need some hacking to get it to recognise that we have multiple MediaWiki installations running out of a single directory 11:36:22 <frosch123> yeah, but could there be a daily cronjob creating a zip 11:36:24 <orudge> so, I'll have to look into that 11:36:28 <frosch123> which we can link from the main toc? 11:36:31 <orudge> and yes, that's the eventual intention 11:36:45 <frosch123> ok, thanks :) 11:36:53 <orudge> might have to wait until tomorrow or Monday though, as I'm heading away for the weekend shortly 11:38:13 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 11:47:39 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/GlobalVariables#Overview <- yay for footnotes 11:50:10 <andythenorth> if someone voids the warranty, do they get their money back 11:50:11 <andythenorth> ? 11:52:32 *** Sacro [~ben@94.117.16.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:52:41 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:55:12 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:01:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:01:49 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-165-72.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:02:03 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:592:29d5:b154:7483] has joined #openttd 12:02:06 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:06:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:18:08 *** ar3k [~ident@ebq139.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 12:25:23 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecj87.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:31:38 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:43:54 <andythenorth> do these look too similar? http://tt-foundry.com/misc/utility_vessel_med_2.png 12:44:01 <andythenorth> can you tell them apart? 12:45:55 <MNIM> well, one is bigger, du 12:46:55 <SpComb> one got the end chopped off 12:46:57 <MNIM> Id say a little bit more difference on the building would have 12:47:10 <MNIM> SpComb: one of 'em has higher boards too 12:47:24 <SpComb> yeah, the front is slimmer too 12:47:29 <andythenorth> the house is identical on both 12:47:36 <MNIM> perhaps give one of them a CC coloured chimney and one in black only? 12:47:36 <SpComb> quite 12:47:47 <andythenorth> MNIM: that's not a bad idea 12:47:51 <andythenorth> the bigger one is new 12:47:55 <andythenorth> work in progress 12:48:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.161.70] has joined #openttd 12:48:56 <MNIM> Id say give the bigger one the black chimney, as it already has it's CC visible enough without a CC chimney 13:11:04 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:14:13 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DA97.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:15:13 <planetmaker> anyone knows whether ttdpatch implements NewObjects, variable 0x48 (views) 13:16:39 * andythenorth needs to name that boat 13:21:17 <frosch123> planetmaker: r2355 13:21:30 <planetmaker> ok, thx 13:22:27 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-007-217.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 13:23:18 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:25:03 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 13:29:09 *** tulcod [~auke@83.160.115.167] has joined #openttd 13:36:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:44:34 *** Sacro [~ben@94.117.16.190] has joined #openttd 14:16:02 <michi_cc> planetmaker: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles/RoadVehicles look broken (and yes, I checked several browsers :) 14:16:50 <planetmaker> the numbers after a few of those version thingies? 14:16:59 <planetmaker> that's the NFO version, not a programme version 14:17:51 <michi_cc> Ah, you have a || instead of | in some of the templates, I'll fix that. 14:18:46 <michi_cc> The NFO version needs some better visual though, the way it is right now nobody will understand it. 14:18:58 <planetmaker> agreed 14:19:19 <planetmaker> oh, in that I fixed it already, yes, there slipped some erronous || through 14:20:06 <planetmaker> I wonder whether we should just kick out the NFO versions... 14:20:20 <planetmaker> who's interested in nfo v2 after all? OpenTTD cannot read it... 14:21:13 <Eddi|zuHause> NFO version is relevant in quite a few places 14:21:34 <Eddi|zuHause> most notably the change of language IDs from 6 to 7 14:22:05 <planetmaker> yes. But as now in the properties it's mostly useless 14:22:26 <planetmaker> and elsehwere it's hardly (ever?) mentioned. Except in that one case: languages 14:27:14 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:05 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: The Third Tiberium War - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 14:28:54 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 14:32:24 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:32:59 <michi_cc> planetmaker: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles/RoadVehicles 14:33:12 <michi_cc> Feel free to revert it if you don't think it's good this way. 14:33:35 <planetmaker> no, it's quite lovely :-) 14:34:00 <michi_cc> That indication might get more important if we ever do v8 :) 14:34:27 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... not entirely sure why, but these IDs are free: 135, 165, 368, 397, 398 14:34:49 <planetmaker> yup, then it might be more important 14:36:08 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, those are not included entries... 14:38:22 <Eddi|zuHause> 135 is a swiss engine that has a duplicate identifier... 14:38:55 <Eddi|zuHause> 165 is the E10.3 14:39:31 <Eddi|zuHause> 397 and 398 are the saxon narrow gauge engines 14:40:51 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-097-086-182.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:40:55 <Eddi|zuHause> and 368 is another duplicate identifier, this time for SBB 14:40:56 <flitz> hi 14:41:51 <flitz> when some (vehicle related) error message appears in an error msg box, the message can be (partly) defined within the newgrf too right ? 14:42:01 <flitz> rather than only in the english.txt 14:43:03 <planetmaker> depends 14:43:50 <flitz> I'm asking because I found one and can't find the related text in the english.txt file and think that I remembered something like this about the grf files 14:44:35 <planetmaker> I'm still no step further in my judgment wrt _your_ error message ;-) 14:45:15 <planetmaker> but things like 'caboose needed' or so must be newgrf supplied 14:45:49 <flitz> I don't care for the specific error :) In my case it is "can haul only high speed carriages" (from the UKRS2 set) 14:46:25 <flitz> I am actually looking for the piece of code that does this particular check 14:46:57 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=959279#p959279 <-- DaveW made quite a good point there. I'm surprised :-) 14:47:14 <planetmaker> flitz: it's the 'can attach wagon' callback 14:47:23 <Eddi|zuHause> flitz: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callbacks#Can_wagon_be_attached_.281D.29 14:47:43 <flitz> ah thanks 14:49:06 <planetmaker> hm, I'm quite happy, that we moved the NewGRF wiki 14:49:11 <planetmaker> It's getting better and better :-9 14:49:53 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Putting the CETS tracking table into docs/ is a bit misleading me thinks... :) 14:50:02 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: maybe 14:51:17 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: when i put it there, i wasn't quite sure how far the auto-generation will go ;) 14:51:26 <frosch123> michi_cc: planetmaker: i would not use the grf version tags to indicate when something was added. ottd and ttdp added stuff at different points so you cannot define it by the version. i thought those tags were only for differences when something changed 14:51:57 <flitz> hm, would there be an 'easy' way to do callbacks without having an actual Vehicle* at hand ? say if I only had the correct EngineID for example ? 14:52:28 <planetmaker> frosch123: You probably know better what the grf version tags mean... But I do not find everywhere an explanation related to them 14:52:31 <michi_cc> frosch123: It was this way in the old table, but that might have been wrong all along of course :) 14:52:56 <Eddi|zuHause> flitz: only the purchase list does that, afaik. and i don't think that you will get particularly useful results with that 14:53:16 <planetmaker> the 'can attach wagon' CB can only be called from an actual vehicle 14:53:19 <planetmaker> iirc 14:53:30 <frosch123> michi_cc: oh, ok, well, then it was ttdp only anyway :) 14:54:17 <flitz> I'm coming back to this problem time and time again, found some workarounds in some cases but overall it really hurts that I don't have access to many of those vehicle functions without an vehicle 14:54:55 <Eddi|zuHause> flitz: i told you that before ;) 14:55:00 <planetmaker> welcome to the lovely world of newgrfs, flitz ;-) 14:55:13 <flitz> :) 14:55:32 <planetmaker> it'll become even more fun, if you have a vehicle which allows being attached in February and every first week of the month only 14:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause> flitz: you'll find no way around creating vehicles 14:55:48 <planetmaker> ^^ 14:56:09 <flitz> my only alternative seemed to be to derive from Train* or so but then I would have stored my templatevehicles together with the normal vehicles and that would have brought even more problems (and less future compatiblity) 14:57:08 <Eddi|zuHause> flitz: i already gave the autoreplace code as reference, it builds a number of virtual vehicles first, before attempting the actual replace 14:57:34 <flitz> if I didn't miss anything, that didn't really help me 14:57:57 <flitz> you mean code like this ? "Train **old_vehs = CallocT<Train *>(num_units);" 14:58:09 <flitz> from the autoreplace_cmd.cpp 14:59:06 <Eddi|zuHause> not this particular one 15:00:27 <frosch123> take a look at articulated_vehicles.cpp, GetCapacityOfArticulatedParts() and stuff 15:00:46 <frosch123> but you won't be able to test the can-wagon-be-attached without a vehicle 15:01:31 <frosch123> for that you have to add some kind of "virtual train", which you can construct like a normal train, which costs nothing, but you cannot start or load it either 15:01:46 <frosch123> you would also need such a thing for template-based autoreplace :p 15:03:04 <flitz> ok, building a virtual train when creating a template should work 15:03:45 <flitz> thought, the autoreplacement worked for me without virtual vehicles, I did this already a while ago 15:04:24 <Eddi|zuHause> autoreplace builds the new train first, and then sells the old one only if it succeeded 15:04:29 <flitz> the creation and drawing of template vehicles gives me headaches though, as there are many things to check and make sure which is not possible if I only have engineIDs 15:05:59 <planetmaker> that's where creation of vehicles is also benefitial it seems :-) 15:06:32 <flitz> I tried that (at least for the drawing part) and failed :) 15:07:09 <flitz> one thing is that I don't know a tile to create a vehicle on in all generality, but maybe I don't need that (only if I want to use the cmd-functions) 15:07:50 <flitz> and then creating such a virtual train just for drawing a template (as like a whole list of them) is way too much overhead and produced some weird results 15:08:00 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 15:08:26 <flitz> I draw my templates now via the GetRailIcon() function, like the depot-gui, but even that doesn't work 100% 15:09:14 <flitz> because I only get a full sprite from this function and cannot determine the actual vehicle length (in sprite terms) from that, whereas real vehicles can do a callback for that 15:10:06 <flitz> the UKRS2 sprites for example have a lot of blue fluff to the left and right of them and determing the size of the actual drawable stuff works through a callback again 15:10:07 <Eddi|zuHause> that won't work as soon as the vehicle defines custom sprites for the purchase list 15:10:34 <flitz> custom sprites like the UKRS2 set ? 15:10:43 <flitz> I'm using that as reference 15:11:46 <frosch123> try nars for an extreme version of purchase list sprites 15:11:50 <frosch123> s/nars/2cc" 15:11:59 * frosch123 sigh 15:13:11 <flitz> a lot of additional conditions for composing trains there ? 15:13:27 <frosch123> no idea, i do not usally play with it 15:15:42 <planetmaker> there are at least some like MU / not MU 15:16:11 *** Juo [~Juo@31.6.18.178] has joined #openttd 15:16:58 <flitz> I think for creating a template I will use a virtual train, that should be easiest, only the drawing part (when no virtual train is around) is still meh 15:17:51 <frosch123> AIs would be happy about test-mode train construction as well :) 15:17:55 *** Juo [~Juo@31.6.18.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:27 *** Juo [~Juo@31.6.18.178] has joined #openttd 15:19:13 <flitz> maybe make it a more general thing ? ^^ 15:23:41 <Eddi|zuHause> flitz: you can store the sprite-IDs from the virtual train in your template 15:24:48 <flitz> hand -> head *bang* 15:25:17 <flitz> Eddi: of course, thanks, could have thought of that already 15:29:45 <tulcod> i gave pathzilla 50 million pound, and it now has 209 road vehicles and 39 million pound. wat the heck? 15:31:00 <frosch123> what do you expect from some random guy, if you give him money? 15:31:57 <tulcod> well not that it magically disappears 15:32:03 <tulcod> i'd expect him to buy something useless 15:32:12 <tulcod> but pathzilla didn't even buy something useless 15:32:16 *** Pixa [~Pixa@85.210.68.107] has joined #openttd 15:32:28 <Eddi|zuHause> road construction? 15:32:39 <planetmaker> it's an AI ;-) 15:32:51 <planetmaker> not an AS :-P 15:33:01 <tulcod> and i don't understand all the fuss about rondje om de kerk, it doesn't seem to be making much more profit htan the other AIs 15:33:11 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the differences are vague :p 15:33:14 <planetmaker> tulcod: it's a parasite 15:33:30 <tulcod> planetmaker: so i should build loads of crap first? 15:33:36 <planetmaker> no 15:33:52 <planetmaker> it waits for others to build the road an then uses that to compete with them there 15:33:58 <tulcod> .. wow... 15:34:09 <planetmaker> and kinda handling vehicles in a semi-cheat way 15:34:30 <tulcod> yeah, selling them on arrival, and then building a new depot at arrival to send the same vehicles back and sell them again 15:34:40 <tulcod> (cause that's what it's doing with bus stops) 15:35:58 <Eddi|zuHause> it makes more sense with trucks, because they don't need a way back at all 15:36:14 <tulcod> well yeah, and the advantage is... keeping the road free? 15:36:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that, and you constantly get the "new vehicle" bonus at the stations 15:36:35 <tulcod> pathzilla is down to 37 million btw 15:36:47 <tulcod> there's a new vehicle bonus? :P 15:36:53 <planetmaker> yes 15:37:20 <planetmaker> you'll find the details wrt station rating in the game mechanics page in the wiki 15:37:29 <planetmaker> thus maybe my knowledge is wrong ;-) 15:38:00 <Eddi|zuHause> the existence of google and wikipedia makes people forget things faster :p 15:38:20 <planetmaker> it does... 15:39:20 *** Juo [~Juo@31.6.18.178] has quit [Quit: goodbye] 15:40:16 <tulcod> does it? i forgot 15:42:32 *** Sacro [~ben@94.117.16.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:46:09 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you forgot facebook in the list 15:46:21 <frosch123> you do not have to remember what you did on the last party :p 15:46:39 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:50:28 *** LordAro [56951e1e@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 15:50:41 <LordAro> afternoonings 15:51:03 <LordAro> kvirc isn't working, so i'm on mibbit :( 15:52:26 <LordAro> Alberth: the readme viewer is progressing, but i need some help about malloc-ing and/or fread-ing. Hint? 15:53:11 <Alberth> is that not in some saved log of yours? 15:53:28 <Alberth> I seem to remember telling you how to do that, at least 15:53:28 <planetmaker> @log 15:53:43 <Alberth> lol 15:53:44 <LordAro> yes, but only mentioning that i need to use it, i've no idea how :L 15:53:58 <Eddi|zuHause> @logs 15:53:58 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 15:54:04 <Rubidium> so... do I read it right, Apple releases another version of Mac OS X and again video stuff magically doesn't work anymore 15:54:29 <Alberth> I doubt it is by magic 15:54:33 <LordAro> Rubidium: of course :) 15:55:17 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-097-086-182.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:56:14 <Eddi|zuHause> great, i swapped the template graphics, and get 40 thousand reports of pixels being white :p 15:56:21 <Alberth> LordAro: char *ptr = malloc(size); if (fread(ptr, 1, size, fp) != size) { /* read error */ } 15:57:04 <Alberth> and free(ptr) after you're done with the data, of course 15:57:20 <LordAro> Alberth: ok, where does 'size', '1', or 'fp' come from? 15:57:43 <Rubidium> char *ptr = MallocT<char>(size) is better 15:57:56 <Alberth> Fio<something-I-forgot>() 15:58:04 <Alberth> Rubidium: good point 15:58:05 <Rubidium> fp is the file pointer you got when you opened the file 15:58:33 <Alberth> and 'size' is the size of the data 15:59:03 <LordAro> and where would i get that from? (sorry, haven't ot much idea about this have i? :) ) 15:59:21 <Rubidium> i.e. size_t size; FILE *fp = FioFOpenFile(filename, "r", DATA_DIR, &size); 15:59:31 <LordAro> dammit, g2g in a min, carry on writing, and i'll get it from the logs 15:59:38 <LordAro> thanks Rubidium :) 16:04:38 *** LordAro [56951e1e@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 16:23:08 *** Pixa [~Pixa@85.210.68.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:24:39 *** worldfuture [~worldfutu@58.100.251.177] has joined #openttd 16:27:08 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d8225ee.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 16:30:12 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d8225ee.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:41:26 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:43:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:44:25 *** worldfuture [~worldfutu@58.100.251.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:47 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:47:01 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-097-080-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:49:48 <andythenorth> hola 16:50:08 <flitz> aloha 17:00:50 <__ln__> solamente inglés 17:02:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:06:43 <supermop> http://www.lynherdairies.co.uk/cheese-by-post.html 17:07:05 <supermop> i want a cheese based industry set 17:09:21 <planetmaker> convert toyland into the land of milk and honey and you're set ;-) 17:09:48 <planetmaker> also... the only way you can die by cheese it trying to carry too much :-P 17:10:06 *** planetmaker changed the topic of #openttd to: tt 17:10:13 <planetmaker> arg 17:10:47 <Eddi|zuHause> need the old topic? 17:10:53 <planetmaker> how did I set the topic title? I've no idea 17:10:56 <planetmaker> yes 17:11:01 <perk11> and what if you eat stale cheese? 17:11:20 <perk11> The topic is '1.1.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only' (set by ChanServ!services@s on 28 ÐÑÐœÑ 2011 г. 16:56:32) 17:11:50 <__ln__> well 'tt' is short and straight to the point 17:11:51 *** planetmaker changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.1.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only 17:12:39 <planetmaker> thx, perk11 17:12:54 <supermop> cheese, beer, pickles, whiskey, more cheese 17:19:09 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:20:51 <supermop> cheese mines, whiskey rig, 17:20:58 <supermop> pikle mill? 17:22:32 <flitz> "convert toyland into the land of milk and honey and you're set ;-)" << is anybody actually playing toyland ? 17:22:42 * planetmaker is 17:22:45 <flitz> I always thought it just hurts the eyes too much :) 17:23:07 <Eddi|zuHause> that was true, until opengfx introduced less painful graphics 17:23:27 <flitz> will try again some time 17:24:31 <supermop> what would be the best way to represent cottage industry? 17:25:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:25:45 <planetmaker> what industry would that be? 17:26:54 <supermop> in the early stages of the industrial revolution, much wool weaving was actually done in small batches in people's homes 17:27:28 <planetmaker> well, so you need to draw the typical rural 'industries' 17:27:43 <supermop> then collected, paid a certain rate, and shipped in bulk to cities or for export 17:28:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 17:28:25 <supermop> well, I am wondering if a town set with some houses that produce tiny amounts of goods would make sense 17:29:03 <Eddi|zuHause> compare http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/titlegame/round1/entry07-opengfx-0640x0480.png and http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/titlegame/round1/entry07-original-0640x0480.png 17:29:08 <Eddi|zuHause> flitz: ^ 17:29:20 <supermop> consider the modern american microbrew, and later craft brew movement 17:29:43 <planetmaker> supermop: that all depends on cargo payment rates, vehicles etc 17:30:12 <supermop> where some beers are made in spaces no larger than a shop or restaurant, although they still seem some shipping and distribution across the country and around the world 17:30:26 <supermop> *see, not seem 17:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: actually, in the above image, you see that the opengfx ship has wrong offset 17:30:58 <supermop> i always though of that sort of craft good as 'mail' in the TT world 17:32:19 <supermop> ie, if you order something direct from the producer and it comes via fedex or dhl 17:32:29 <supermop> that is sort of like the mail cargo 17:33:30 <supermop> so that 'craft' industry would exist in the backround of the 'heavy' industry that TT focuses on 17:34:52 <Eddi|zuHause> so what exactly is the issue now? 17:34:58 <supermop> but if i wanted a quaint set that excludes steel mills and coal mines, it might make sense to have distilleries, woodworkers, and other artisans 17:35:02 <supermop> nothing 17:35:37 <supermop> just wondering if it is better to have houses produce cargo, or just make very small industries that get built in towns 17:36:27 <planetmaker> houses come and go. Thus it's an unstable production site 17:36:43 <planetmaker> and a player could never found them 17:44:22 <supermop> yeah 17:44:27 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... movement looks slightly odd with the shorter wagons 17:44:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the turning point is not right ;) 17:45:23 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22683 /trunk/src/lang/italian.txt: 17:45:23 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:23 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv 17:48:27 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 17:49:50 <flitz> Eddi: "compare": yep, opengfx is definitely better 17:50:48 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DA97.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:03:24 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it's not quite shorter wagons; the wagons will still be the same length. They just let the next wagon follow closer 18:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i meant "shorter than one full tile" :p 18:07:22 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.153.138.66] has joined #openttd 18:11:20 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-097-080-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: flitz] 18:17:27 <michi_cc> frosch123: Where can I find which TTDPatch version r1816 corresponds to? Is that still 2.5 or are all rXXX 2.6? 18:20:47 <Rubidium> IIRC somewhere in the 2.6 alphas they got revisions, although... 18:21:30 <Rubidium> hmm, nope :( 18:21:50 <Rubidium> bbbb (build) SVN revision (from TTDPatch 2.5 beta 5 r418 on) 18:22:03 <Rubidium> nevertheless... just check http://svn.ttdpatch.net/trac/browser?rev=1816 18:22:17 <Rubidium> it gets added to trunk, so it must be 2.6 18:22:23 <Rubidium> as 2.5 is in branch/2.5 18:22:27 <frosch123> michi_cc: tons of stuff was devoped in 2.5 branch and backported to trunk 18:22:32 <frosch123> there is no easy way to tell 18:23:39 <michi_cc> I'm going to assume 2.6 according to the log of Rb then 18:26:29 <frosch123> yeah, not much happened in 2.5 branch after r1816 18:27:22 <Rubidium> even then, if the commit is after 2.5b9 just say 2.6. That's more honest 18:30:45 <frosch123> also true 18:34:47 <Rubidium> gheheh... 18:35:03 <Rubidium> the download page still says Mac OS X 10.3-10.5 (universal build) 18:35:16 <Rubidium> I'd almost say that we should keep it that way 18:35:41 <Rubidium> and blame everyone with 10.6 or 10.7 that has bugs for using a version of OpenTTD not meant for their OS 18:36:15 <Chris_Booth> 10.6 doesn't work properly? snow leopard is old now 18:36:51 <peter1138> if only we had a mac-maintainer... 18:37:49 <frosch123> does 10.7 allow installing custom software? 18:38:07 <Chris_Booth> I think it does it still has access to the console ETC 18:38:14 <Chris_Booth> just comes with the app store aswell 18:38:29 <Chris_Booth> it also still supports steam so it must allow custom code to be run 18:54:10 <V453000> what does a cargo decay actually mean? That I get 0 money for delivery if it is going for too long or that some part of cargo gets lost during long travel? 18:54:34 <V453000> regarding http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=54450&start=20 18:55:48 <frosch123> open the ingame graphs for income vs. traveltime 18:56:06 <frosch123> then image time running faster for the cargo in some conditions 19:01:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@87.113.231.50] has joined #openttd 19:25:50 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2059.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 19:29:04 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 19:29:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@87.113.231.50] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:37 *** andythenorth [~Andy@87.113.231.50] has joined #openttd 19:30:35 <planetmaker> Rubidium: we can call it with somewhat good concience 10.3 - 10.6 for what it's worth. But 10.7 definitely not 19:31:00 <planetmaker> After all 10.6 has not more bugs than the other versions. 19:32:40 <andythenorth> supermop: mod FIRS for cheese :P 19:32:51 <andythenorth> btw, DanMacK and I discussed early textile industry 19:33:10 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2059.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:33:51 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest3335 19:33:51 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:33:52 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 19:33:55 <andythenorth> ffs 19:34:06 <andythenorth> I have two wireless networks and 2 ADSL connections 19:34:09 <andythenorth> none are reliable 19:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you have to make them redundant 19:34:26 <andythenorth> can anyone recommend a decent wifi router? 19:34:43 <andythenorth> both of mine died recently 19:35:05 <andythenorth> in our office building, an apple wifi router goes three floors 19:35:13 <andythenorth> in my house it barely goes 8 feet 19:35:36 <tulcod> andythenorth: maybe power ethernet? 19:35:42 <andythenorth> ? 19:35:51 <andythenorth> my house is wired for ethernet ;) 19:36:02 <tulcod> so why are you on wireless? 19:36:34 <andythenorth> trailing a cable would be impractical for n minor reasons 19:37:15 * andythenorth wonders 19:37:22 <tulcod> andythenorth: okay, so maybe your pc's adapter is kinda shitty 19:37:33 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 19:37:40 <andythenorth> are old cast iron radiators likely to be creating dead zones? 19:37:47 <tulcod> no 19:37:59 <tulcod> well, unless you're sitting behind them 19:38:03 <andythenorth> I am 19:38:04 <tulcod> but not like microwaves do 19:38:13 <tulcod> well then yes 19:38:16 <andythenorth> between me and the router is one wall 19:38:26 <andythenorth> but on either side of the wall, two radiators 19:38:33 <andythenorth> in line of sight between me and the wifi point 19:38:35 <tulcod> try 802.11n then, it's said to make use of relfection 19:38:45 <andythenorth> interesting 19:38:56 <tulcod> and then get a MIMO one while you're at it 19:40:06 <andythenorth> hmm 19:40:12 <andythenorth> the old router had two ariels 19:40:33 <andythenorth> that might explain better coverage, even though it was plain old 802.1g 19:40:53 *** Guest3335 [~Andy@87.113.231.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:41:14 <andythenorth> the wifi is in a cupboard with the mains electricity switchboard, and a couple of transformer coils 19:41:20 <andythenorth> is that unhelpful? 19:41:59 <tulcod> meh 19:42:02 <tulcod> wouldn't matter much 19:42:22 <tulcod> so why not move your router? 19:42:47 <andythenorth> I moved it once to get better coverage 19:44:45 <andythenorth> I should just buy a proper router 19:45:21 <tulcod> a proper router won't penetrate a 3 inch metal wall 19:45:38 <andythenorth> yarp 19:46:03 <andythenorth> but then I can move the apple access point things back to where they should be for streaming music 19:46:12 <andythenorth> and stop relying on them for wifi 19:46:35 <andythenorth> and get a router with decent arials 19:46:45 <andythenorth> instead of whatever apple have put in a 3 inch white brick 19:48:21 <andythenorth> grrr 19:48:29 <planetmaker> you might just use a 'normal' router, andythenorth ;-) 19:49:09 <andythenorth> google tells me 'readers rate apple routers the most reliable and best overall' 19:49:13 * andythenorth disagrees 19:49:27 <Rubidium> tulcod: a proper router has the ability to connect antennae via cables, so you can put several antennae around the house for optimal coverage 19:49:49 <andythenorth> planetmaker: what's a 'normal' router? 19:50:04 <Eddi|zuHause> s/readers/fanatics/ 19:51:08 <andythenorth> apparently not just fanatics 19:51:15 <andythenorth> the airport extreme has good reviews :( 19:51:30 <andythenorth> they also reliably die about 10 days after warranty expires 19:51:33 <andythenorth> mine did 19:52:40 <Eddi|zuHause> that is perfectly industry standard nowadays :p 19:52:43 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> don't need apple for that :p 19:53:14 <V453000> frosch123: thanks :) that is... interesting :) 19:56:30 * andythenorth looks at routers with removable antenna 19:56:40 <andythenorth> wonder if they could be extended via ethernet? :o 19:56:48 <andythenorth> it's just wires right? 19:57:37 <__ln__> it's called planned obsolescence 19:58:02 <andythenorth> it's also called 'apple will replace a known bad part for free if I go to an Apple store' 19:58:07 <andythenorth> but apple stores are sinister 19:58:22 <supermop> what would a cheese industry set be called? Cheese Users Replacement Development? 19:58:45 <andythenorth> Cracking Cheese Grommit 19:58:56 <andythenorth> it would probably be Aardman themed 19:59:03 <__ln__> supermop: Lunar Mining Corporation 19:59:26 <Eddi|zuHause> they would mine meat, obviously. 20:01:58 *** LordAro [56951e1e@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:16:33 <supermop> just read about HSR crash in china 20:19:24 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d8225ee.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 20:19:24 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:13 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:23:40 <__ln__> how much coverage is the norway situation getting in US? 20:29:16 <Eddi|zuHause> "The Euro exchange rate is so bad for Switzerland, they start thinking about joining" <-- wth? 20:29:36 <andythenorth> did the US default on the dollar yet? 20:29:42 <andythenorth> that's going to be....interesting 20:29:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought they had something like 10 days left 20:29:59 <supermop> august 2nd 20:30:35 <LordAro> i agree, it's going to be very interesting when the world economy collapses... 20:30:42 <andythenorth> or when it doesn't 20:30:42 <supermop> thats not the day of a default, just the day that the debt reaches a limit we had told ourselves we wouldnt cross 20:31:03 <supermop> default or not happens separate from that 20:31:17 <supermop> when creditors do not get paid on time 20:31:18 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: that's exactly a "default". the point where you have no more money to spend 20:31:19 <andythenorth> LordAro: if you rationally believe the economy will collapse...have you bought gold? 20:31:25 <supermop> no 20:31:41 <andythenorth> the default happens when the first payments aren't met 20:31:43 <andythenorth> yes/no? 20:31:48 <supermop> default is when you borrow money, then say "oh, we actually will not be paying that part back" 20:31:48 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 20:32:08 <supermop> the debt ceiling has nothing to do with paymets 20:32:14 <LordAro> andythenorth: it's certainly worth thinking about, at least removing your money from a bank :L 20:32:33 <andythenorth> LordAro: do you think everyone should remove their money from banks? 20:32:44 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: you wouldn't talk about raising the debt limit, if there were no payments to be met 20:33:01 <LordAro> up to them, i'm no economist 20:33:03 <supermop> those payments are not to the creditors 20:33:12 <supermop> those are to things like the army 20:33:25 <andythenorth> LordAro: what happens if everyone removes their money from banks? :D 20:33:37 <andythenorth> supermop: won't the first step be a federal govt shutdown? 20:33:48 <supermop> not likely 20:33:57 <LordAro> oh, right. world economy collapses :) 20:34:09 <supermop> probably money will be borrowed under an emergency executive order 20:34:24 <Eddi|zuHause> we should have bank runs more often :p 20:34:34 <LordAro> i love all this positive thinking :p 20:34:47 <Eddi|zuHause> so the banks actually realize that it's a possibility 20:34:51 <supermop> which will be politically very bad, 20:35:06 <supermop> and hurt one of the parties at the next election 20:35:18 <supermop> depending on who best frames the other as responsible 20:35:33 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: how is that going to change anything? 20:35:36 <andythenorth> supermop: the impression from here - in the serious press - is that nobody realised quite how serious the Tea Party movement were about destroying the federal govt 20:35:38 <planetmaker> but the realization that the state will cover the debt, as they're too big to fail doesn't help either in the end 20:36:05 <andythenorth> it seems that a default + shutdown of Federal Govt is exactly what Tea Partiers are seeking 20:36:11 <supermop> the last times the republicans tried to force a shut down it destroyed their party leadership for about 3 years 20:36:30 <supermop> the tea parties are still not that large, but 20:36:39 <LordAro> "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." -- Winston Churchill 20:36:50 <supermop> at this point the republicans have become reliant on them for political identity 20:37:24 <supermop> the most important voting blocs are still non aligned moderates 20:37:27 <andythenorth> what will happen to the political right in the US if the dollar collapses as the world's reserve currency? 20:37:29 * andythenorth has no clue 20:37:38 <supermop> they wont care 20:37:56 <supermop> the far right don't see any currency other than gold as having value 20:38:07 <andythenorth> gold, guts, and guns :P 20:38:17 <supermop> as to default 20:38:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a race whether the euro or the dollar go down first 20:38:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the other will see a big shift in cash flow 20:38:53 <supermop> that hapes when treasury bonds mature and the owners do not get their money back 20:38:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and everything will be fine for the next 20 years 20:39:10 <Eddi|zuHause> or it'll look like a mad max movie. whatever. 20:39:37 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: but that happens all the time 20:39:42 <supermop> basically default is less about policemen not getting paid, and more about china losing out on its investment 20:39:51 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: it's a more or less continuous process 20:39:56 <supermop> which causes china to not want to buy our bonds any more 20:40:36 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not like it's china's fault 20:41:15 <supermop> is it your fault if you buy stock in a company that is going out of business? 20:41:46 <Eddi|zuHause> no, as long as every rating agency ever gave it an AAA+++ rating 20:42:06 * andythenorth wonders if the Renminbi will become reserve currency :P 20:42:08 <Eddi|zuHause> "there is no possible scenario ever that wou won't get your money back" 20:42:22 <supermop> not idf it does not appreciate to correct value andy 20:42:44 <supermop> people with current T-notes are still getting their money back 20:42:47 <supermop> but 20:42:53 <supermop> that could change 20:43:13 <supermop> not over night on august 2nd, but over the course of a few months 20:43:45 <andythenorth> someone should send the rogue republicans a wikipedia artilce 20:43:48 <andythenorth> article /s 20:43:55 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system#Great_Depression 20:44:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd send you http://alternativlos.org/16/ but it's in german 20:44:57 <supermop> andy: 20:44:58 <supermop> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Schlafly 20:45:07 <supermop> they would read that instead 20:45:26 <Eddi|zuHause> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money 20:47:23 <andythenorth> it's rare that you mean an Andrew who doesn't have strong and bizarre opinions 20:47:29 <andythenorth> mean / meet /s 20:48:00 <Eddi|zuHause> s/an Andrew/any person/ 20:51:42 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:56:41 <LordAro> conservapedia really is very funny :) 20:57:18 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:00:03 <Eddi|zuHause> err... "teacher of homeschooling classes" <-- that sounds like an oxymoron 21:01:12 * andythenorth makes boats 21:07:45 <supermop> i had an idea for boats last night, but now i have forgotten 21:11:26 <__ln__> are there plans for mines underwater? (i don't mean a naval mine but ore mining) 21:12:30 <supermop> rare earths in sea mud? 21:12:57 <__ln__> exactly 21:14:06 <andythenorth> dunno 21:14:14 <andythenorth> but I want to add a dredger to HEQS 21:15:28 <Terkhen> good night 21:20:31 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 21:25:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:26:53 *** LordAro [56951e1e@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:44:59 *** tulcod [~auke@83.160.115.167] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:52:50 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:25 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: The Third Tiberium War - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 22:03:33 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:05:13 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:05:26 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.153.138.66] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 22:05:29 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0096b5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:40 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 22:09:58 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:20:20 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:26:13 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-165-72.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:34:36 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:35:04 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-007-217.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... 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