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00:04:40 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-075-036.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:11:34 *** RichyB [~richardb@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:18:57 <Wolf01> night 00:19:00 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:22:15 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c83-253-89-11.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 00:27:51 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d082415.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 00:30:28 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 00:32:01 <drac_boy> hi chrill-not-chill 00:32:03 <drac_boy> heh heh 00:38:12 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-10.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 00:40:20 <Chrill> hi drac_boy not dracula! 00:40:29 <Chrill> chill really needs to change his name :O 00:40:35 <Chrill> chillax patchpack 00:40:39 <Chrill> sounds weird.. 00:41:48 <drac_boy> heh well its too late, its already out? :) 00:42:03 <drac_boy> how're you still? 00:42:08 <Chrill> im fine 00:42:09 <Chrill> you? 00:47:31 <peter1138> herpyderpy 00:48:11 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 00:50:12 <drac_boy> doing ok ty 00:51:56 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-86-172.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 00:55:23 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 00:57:14 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-19-217.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:03:19 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.193.109] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:06:01 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 01:42:31 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.169] has joined #openttd 01:42:32 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.8.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:42:50 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:00 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.8.169] has joined #openttd 01:49:16 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quit [Quit: bye] 03:15:33 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-97-92.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 03:38:54 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c83-253-89-11.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 04:47:53 *** KouDy [~KouDy@175.144.145.106] has joined #openttd 04:49:59 *** KouDy2 [~KouDy@2.43.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has joined #openttd 04:51:32 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B3FA.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 04:54:20 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.8.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:57:39 *** KouDy [~KouDy@175.144.145.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:57:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6DD33.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:25:44 *** telanus [~telanus@196-210-209-179.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 05:31:36 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67D43.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:31:51 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC6783F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:57:08 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:53:54 *** telanus1 [~telanus@196-210-209-179.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 06:56:48 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 06:57:34 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 06:57:42 *** telanus [~telanus@196-210-209-179.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:58:47 *** KouDy [~KouDy@2.43.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has joined #openttd 06:58:47 *** KouDy2 [~KouDy@2.43.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:01:36 *** KouDy [~KouDy@2.43.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:01:46 *** KouDy [~KouDy@2.43.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has joined #openttd 07:20:08 <NGC3982> herpy derpy 07:24:07 <peter1138> Yes and no 07:26:33 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 07:35:38 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:38:22 <NGC3982> I just noticed the parameter functions on ECS and 2CC. 07:38:47 <NGC3982> Quadroupled costs + No-industry-closing make a neat scenario. 07:38:56 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@f72217.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:45:23 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:52:37 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E8CC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:00:29 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E8CC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 08:00:29 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-044-063.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 08:05:58 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 09:15:56 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 09:17:22 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 09:20:58 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21:41 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 09:31:22 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-86-172.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:33:09 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-10.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 09:57:31 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:59:52 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 10:13:37 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-117-33.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 10:19:47 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-86-172.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:38:15 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1242499104.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 10:38:24 <drac_boy> hi 10:43:13 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 10:48:33 <Terkhen> good morning 10:49:08 *** tr [~tr@dsl78-143-210-81.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 10:49:19 <V453000> afternoon Terkhen :p 10:49:37 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has joined #openttd 10:49:44 <Wolf01> hello o/ 10:49:48 <Terkhen> it's morning for me :) 10:49:50 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 10:52:41 <drac_boy> V453000 its morning here as well :p 10:52:57 <V453000> well I guess it depends on how you declare morning 10:54:03 <drac_boy> anything from dawn to before noon :) 10:54:28 <Terkhen> nah, it is not "really" morning here, but it felt like morning for me 10:57:44 <V453000> that is what I mean :D 10:58:10 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:18:35 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: that doesn't apply, because it was after 12:00 when you joined 11:19:09 <drac_boy> its actually 06:43 now silly 11:19:21 <Eddi|zuHause> unless "noon" means "highest point of the sun", then that would put it at 13:00 in summer 11:19:33 *** telanus2 [~telanus@196-210-209-179.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 11:23:44 *** telanus1 [~telanus@196-210-209-179.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:44:36 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7d24.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:53:52 *** chester_ [~chester@95-25-103-30.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:18:53 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1242499104.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 12:22:00 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 13:07:21 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@119.234.1.226] has joined #openttd 13:13:27 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9d89:ce17:a4e:1bb4] has joined #openttd 13:13:30 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:46:00 <Belugas> hello 14:06:12 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-97-92.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:12:12 * Belugas is working on implementing threads for work@work. SQL queries through threads. Lovely 14:12:22 <Belugas> boss has so many crazy ideas... 14:17:27 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c83-253-89-11.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 14:25:44 <Rubidium> oh, one of those bosses that heard "threads" and/or "multi-core computing" and thus wants to add threads to an application 14:26:13 <Rubidium> good luck making it slower by doing the SQL query in another thread and waiting for that thread to complete before continueing 14:28:06 <frosch123> is threading in delphi still as broken as it was 10 years ago? 14:28:50 <frosch123> back then was: newer use the "synchronize" methjod, it locks up the application when exiting 14:29:49 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-117-33.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:30:00 <Rubidium> on the other hand, doing a SQL query on a database server offloads it to another thread ;) 14:31:12 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-117-33.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:32:59 <Belugas> well... i do not neet to fetch a result, it's an update/insert/delete stuff 14:33:26 <Belugas> the point was more to free up the program for not important immediate processing 14:33:45 <Belugas> idea is good, and Delphi 4 is diong the job fine, so far 14:37:33 <Belugas> synchronize is indeed to avoid for most usage. i go with CriticalSections instead. 14:38:00 <Belugas> tricky, i need to create my one TSession for each thread accessing BDE :S 15:14:31 <kais58> I hate SQL 15:14:48 <lilleman> I love SQL 15:24:31 <Belugas> I love SQL too. very effective 15:24:53 <Warod> map-reduce is nice too. :> 15:25:11 <Belugas> I guess you hate it when you don't either know it or use it or are good with it 15:25:52 <Warod> Or know too much of things done with it. 15:28:04 <Rubidium> for certain things SQL isn't very effective though 15:30:25 <Belugas> granted 15:30:29 <lilleman> SQL is not very good at cooking food :/ 15:30:51 <Belugas> but for a POS system/chain of stores management, it is quite effective 15:31:18 <Belugas> when on-time data is not required, as an example... 15:34:10 <Belugas> note that i might be tempted with a faster i/o based db system for cash sales and such 15:34:21 <Belugas> sometimes, it's a bit too much 15:34:48 <Belugas> robustness and speed sometimes clash 15:34:56 *** Lakie [~Lakie@cpc3-wals9-2-0-cust51.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:38:08 *** Lakie [~Lakie@cpc3-wals9-2-0-cust51.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 15:44:29 *** BenTrein [~bentrein@ppp-124-122-5-106.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #openttd 15:58:44 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has joined #openttd 16:03:02 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:08:04 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:10:21 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@119.234.1.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:30:33 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has joined #openttd 16:40:12 *** CornishPasty_ [users.158@id-158.hampstead.irccloud.com] has joined #openttd 16:41:26 *** CornishPasty [users.158@id-158.hampstead.irccloud.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:41:26 *** CornishPasty_ is now known as CornishPasty 16:42:42 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-10.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 16:42:49 <__ln__> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/freight/single-view/view/first-chinese-built-locomotive-shipped-to-an-eu-customer.html 16:43:57 <BenTrein> Time to learn Chinese fellows. 16:48:33 <Starlight> Doesn't look bad. 17:15:53 *** AD [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:56 *** AD [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has joined #openttd 17:16:30 *** AD is now known as Guest3021 17:22:22 <NGC3982> __ln__: GRF it! GRF it before it lay eggs! 17:29:09 <BenTrein> :D 17:31:21 <NGC3982> Does a town stop accepting water at some point in tropical climate? 17:31:40 <BenTrein> As long as it keeps it's watertower it should keep accepting it. 17:31:47 <BenTrein> Or are you talking ecs? 17:32:07 <NGC3982> ECS. 17:32:16 <BenTrein> Ah, sorry. I got no idea. :D 17:32:35 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:32:35 <NGC3982> I didnt really realize that i didnt have a water tower at all 17:33:18 <BenTrein> :) Maybe that helps. 17:35:47 *** BenTrein [~bentrein@ppp-124-122-5-106.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:37:07 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:59:12 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@82-170-153-183.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 17:59:26 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c83-253-89-11.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:20:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r24473 /trunk/src/lang/portuguese.txt: 18:20:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:20:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: portuguese - 1 changes by filipemsoares 18:21:26 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:25:06 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:27:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:28:19 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:31:02 <andythenorth> hola 18:31:17 <Terkhen> hi andythenorth 18:31:28 <andythenorth> hmm 18:31:37 <andythenorth> who here is familiar with Club-Mate? 18:39:38 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has joined #openttd 18:39:41 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:39:54 <andythenorth> Alberth: \o/ 18:40:07 <andythenorth> this stuff 18:40:09 <andythenorth> is goo 18:40:10 <andythenorth> d 18:40:11 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club-Mate 18:41:18 <Alberth> Man gewöhnt sich daran :) 18:42:25 <Alberth> so you're super hyper now with all that cafeine? :) 18:42:45 <andythenorth> not today 18:42:52 <andythenorth> today I am having caffeine crash 18:44:52 <NGC3982> I just love how i can deliver steel to a tinning factory and create food for a nearby town. 18:45:02 <NGC3982> It's like soylent transformers or something. 18:46:32 <andythenorth> this channel has a minor soylent obsession 18:46:38 <Belugas> better then caffeine trash 18:46:40 <andythenorth> :P 18:46:46 <Wolf01> http://englishrussia.com/2012/08/13/where-steam-trains-rest/ yeah, that's my ottd museum :D 18:52:55 <NGC3982> Wolf01: I love that. 18:53:11 <NGC3982> I so want to live in a place like that 18:58:45 <Rubidium> the heating bill will be horrible 18:59:20 <Belugas> may want to visit this one, NGC3982 : http://www.exporail.org/en/welcome-to-exporail/ 18:59:36 <Belugas> half an hour drive from my place :) 19:00:30 <Rubidium> just horrid accessibility from the main train station :( 19:04:14 <Belugas> quite 19:04:57 <Belugas> ho. did you tried to visit it? would you have wished? 19:05:09 * Starlight does have a minor shunting yard near by. :3 19:05:10 <Belugas> sorry, it did not cross my mind it would be interesting for you 19:05:26 <Belugas> make one in lego, Starlight :) 19:05:34 <Rubidium> when I saw the horrid connection there I chose not to go 19:05:46 <Rubidium> and do some other stuff, rather than sit 4 hours in transit 19:06:01 <Rubidium> especially since I've been to something similar in Cowgary 19:07:33 <Starlight> Ha. Well, considering where I live, I think it connects to multiple locations. I do have a freight line track right across the street. The train comes around at night carrying coal (I think?) and .. as OpenTTD would have; Iron Ore (again! I think?) to the Steel Mill. 19:08:12 <Starlight> All I know is, they are defiently coal hoppers from CSX. 19:08:21 <Belugas> true, Rubidium. so instead, we've sat for more then 4 hours in my car :D 19:08:41 <Belugas> plus, i assumed you have your share of trains in a yearly basis ;) 19:09:16 <Rubidium> yep, even "cattle class" ;) 19:10:24 <NGC3982> Belugas: ;) 19:11:16 *** glx_ [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9d89:ce17:a4e:1bb4] has joined #openttd 19:11:39 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 19:12:21 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AF23.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:12:43 <Rubidium> http://www.het-digitale-spoor.nl/2011/Foto/2011-006.jpg is pretty much cattle class ;) 19:12:50 *** Elu [Elukka@78-27-97-92.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:13:14 <andythenorth> is that in HEQS? 19:13:41 <Rubidium> I doubt that, neither in the Dutch train set 19:13:47 <Rubidium> although I didn't ask about that one 19:13:53 <andythenorth> how many PAX does it carry? :P 19:14:42 <Rubidium> it has "seats" for two (besides the drive) 19:14:48 *** Strid_ [~Strid@c-a1cfe455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 19:14:49 <Rubidium> comfort class: NaN 19:15:14 *** TinoDid|znc [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has joined #openttd 19:16:08 *** jstepien_ [~jstepien@galera.ii.pw.edu.pl] has joined #openttd 19:16:08 *** __ln___ [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-83-150-116-30.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 19:16:08 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has joined #openttd 19:16:11 *** Kjetil_ [kjetil@161.81-166-7.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 19:16:15 *** blathijs_ [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 19:16:38 *** Rawh_ [rawh@lennardk2.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 19:16:39 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> solenoid.oftc.net quits: @Alberth, chester_, __ln__, ^Spike^, Prof_Frink, Strid, Elukka, +glx, jstepien, dfox, (+7 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 19:16:39 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 19:16:39 *** TinoDid|znc is now known as TinoDidriksen 19:18:28 <Belugas> Rubidium, you didnot meant that type of cattle class, don't you? : http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MCuRuJvraI8/TfryPQg-69I/AAAAAAAAAoM/gC6jY97ruIk/s1600/R.C.%2BGift%2BCaricature.jpg 19:19:34 *** Pulec [pulec@2a02:2b88:2:1::ae5:4005] has joined #openttd 19:20:13 *** Netsplit over, joins: ^Spike^ 19:21:28 *** PierreW [~ttdlx@bnc.peterbox.net] has joined #openttd 19:23:54 *** Varazir_ is now known as Varazir 19:26:06 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has joined #openttd 19:27:28 *** dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #openttd 19:29:10 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has joined #openttd 19:29:13 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 19:31:00 * andythenorth tries Alberth's industry patch 19:31:20 <Alberth> (08:54:30 PM) Alberth: andythenorth: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1040765#p1040765 <-- shall I add indonesian.lng ? 19:31:34 <andythenorth> ok :) 19:32:27 <andythenorth> hmm 19:32:48 <andythenorth> using my leet shell skills, I should be able to pipe this output to a file 19:33:00 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:33:03 *** chester_ [~chester@95-28-179-114.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:33:56 <Alberth> ./openttd -d ind=4 >& tzelogvile 19:34:11 <andythenorth> the & helps :) 19:35:30 <Alberth> it's a bit blunt, it redicrects everything :) 19:36:18 <andythenorth> hmm 19:36:30 <andythenorth> the total number of +ve or -ve seems to be roughly balanced 19:36:55 <andythenorth> 1 too few currently 19:37:11 <andythenorth> I am deliberately testing an easy case - flat map, lots of space 19:37:23 <Alberth> yeah, it's pretty good at reaching the required number of industries :p 19:37:58 <andythenorth> not sure how often the cb is running 19:38:07 <andythenorth> I ffwed about 1 year of game time, and get 4 runs 19:38:14 <andythenorth> approx 19:48:25 <Alberth> it has been a few years, I don't have the details in my head any more. You could try to bulldoze a few industries, and see what happens 19:49:43 <frosch123> andythenorth: i think it depends on the map size 19:49:59 <frosch123> maybe once per month on 256x256 ? 19:55:52 <andythenorth> maybe I should add game month + year to the debug output 20:05:02 <andythenorth> hmm 20:05:51 <andythenorth> just got a scrap yard and steel mill in 1879 20:05:53 <andythenorth> available since 1873 20:06:42 <andythenorth> '1' is not a very large sample 20:06:54 <andythenorth> I would have to play a lot of games I guess 20:07:21 <andythenorth> hmm 20:07:39 <andythenorth> "Target count recalculated" 20:07:46 <andythenorth> followed by ""Scrap Yard" opened" 20:08:04 <andythenorth> changed from "1 too few" to "4 too few" 20:09:05 <Alberth> Target count recalculated means some industry availability or random probability changed, so it re-computes (with a random number generator) how many industries to make of each type 20:09:52 <Alberth> the use of the RG means that the numbers will change a bit every time 20:10:46 <andythenorth> ok, so it does listen to cb 22 20:10:49 <andythenorth> by some means 20:10:55 <Alberth> How do you make a callback? 20:11:09 <Alberth> of ocurse it listens to the newgrf :) 20:11:19 <andythenorth> I assume you mean 'how to add to ottd?' 20:11:21 <andythenorth> :) 20:11:40 <Alberth> yes, if you know that :) 20:11:45 <andythenorth> hmm 20:11:49 <andythenorth> one min 20:11:55 <Alberth> but I'd settle for a few NFO lines too :) 20:12:25 <Alberth> the newgrf specs are just horrible, they don't explain anything 20:12:38 <andythenorth> a patch does though :) 20:12:39 <andythenorth> one min 20:13:38 <andythenorth> Alberth: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3196/cb_15f.patch 20:13:47 <andythenorth> that was accepted so must be ok :) 20:15:00 <andythenorth> add it to a newgrf_callbacks.h, add to newgrf_debug_data.h 20:15:12 <andythenorth> (don't need debug if not trying for trunk inclusion) 20:15:18 <andythenorth> add code to industry_cmd.cpp to handle it 20:15:31 <andythenorth> then you'll need a test grf 20:15:42 <andythenorth> extending nml is trivial; grfcodec less so 20:16:06 <Alberth> grfcodec fails to just code what I tell it to? 20:16:14 <Alberth> *encode 20:16:19 <frosch123> andy means nforenum 20:16:22 <andythenorth> it or nforenum _might_ throw errors 20:16:43 <andythenorth> it's harder to take renum out of a FIRS nfo build than to fix nml :P 20:16:47 <andythenorth> anyway 20:16:52 <andythenorth> it's solvable 20:17:22 <Alberth> I would hope that nforrenum makes noise when using undefined cb's :) 20:17:29 <Alberth> -r 20:19:03 <Alberth> My problem is currently that I don't know which action to use for defining a cb. 20:19:29 <NGC3982> Im not understanding the ECS wiki 20:19:52 <NGC3982> I note that number of visits + full load is the best way to handle ECS vectors 20:20:00 <NGC3982> But i have no idea why. 20:20:03 <Alberth> NGC3982: you understand the newgrf specs wiki? maybe we can swap our problems :p 20:20:16 <andythenorth> Alberth: action in nml? nfo? or ottd? 20:20:32 <frosch123> what are you actually heading for? 20:20:39 <frosch123> i did not quite understand that :s 20:20:56 <NGC3982> Alberth: <not>. 20:21:20 <andythenorth> Alberth: adding a cb is deceptively easy :) 20:21:29 <andythenorth> that's why my patch got accepted :P 20:22:52 <Alberth> I was thinking to start with moving the total number of industries number into a newgrf cb. 20:24:43 <andythenorth> what return values are valid? 20:24:46 <andythenorth> byte or word? 20:24:52 <Alberth> word 20:25:26 <andythenorth> result is got from something like: 20:25:28 <andythenorth> uint16 res = GetIndustryCallback(CBID_INDUSTRY_PROD_CHANGE_BUILD, 0, 0, i, type, INVALID_TILE); 20:25:33 <frosch123> Alberth: a single callback for total amount? or per industry type? 20:25:39 <frosch123> the latter would be the same as cb22 20:25:47 <Alberth> total amount 20:25:57 <andythenorth> allowing values other than '55' :P 20:26:02 <frosch123> for a single callback independent of industry type, you want a so called "generic callback" 20:27:27 <frosch123> take a look at AmbientSoundEffectCallback for an example 20:27:45 <Alberth> and taking mapsize and industry density into account by the newgrf may make sense too 20:27:58 *** lilleman [~lilleman@h79-138-81-60.static.se.alltele.net] has left #openttd [] 20:29:13 * andythenorth is playing a FIRS game in 1870s and enjoying it 20:29:42 <andythenorth> setting 0 intro date for some more industries helps prevent broken chains in 1870 20:29:45 <andythenorth> = more fun 20:30:05 <andythenorth> but also my train set doesn't have trains until 1905 20:30:12 <andythenorth> so I only have steam trams and ships 20:30:16 <andythenorth> minimal = a little more fun 20:33:57 <Alberth> did you see the post about making a game script for FIRS andy? 20:34:03 <andythenorth> where's it to? 20:34:37 <Alberth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1040649#p1040649 20:34:44 <andythenorth> ta 20:35:25 <andythenorth> hmm 20:35:34 <andythenorth> well that will provide evidence at least 20:35:45 <andythenorth> I've given up again trying to solve GS and am sticking to the newgrf end :P 20:35:57 <andythenorth> I know zero about GS, so I'm incompetent there 20:40:05 <andythenorth> ugh 20:40:14 <andythenorth> I just found one of the reasons I hate FIRS 20:41:31 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c83-253-89-11.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 20:42:21 <andythenorth> gah I hate farms 20:42:24 <andythenorth> I've done them all wrong 20:42:29 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c83-253-89-11.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 20:43:00 <planetmaker> hello 20:43:59 <andythenorth> lo planetmaker 20:44:57 <planetmaker> what's 'all wrong' about farms, andythenorth? 20:45:14 <planetmaker> how they work? how they look? their overall existence? 20:45:23 <Alberth> they are too much left, otherwise they would be right :) 20:45:48 <andythenorth> they're fun with one cargo 20:45:52 <andythenorth> I like the clustering 20:46:01 <andythenorth> as soon as I want to ship both cargos and/or deliver supplies 20:46:07 <andythenorth> I either have horrible contention 20:46:15 <andythenorth> or I have to surround each farm with infrastructure 20:46:28 <andythenorth> which is (a) boring (b) dumb (c) doesn't look nice 20:47:38 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-36-54.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:47:54 <andythenorth> ach 20:48:00 <andythenorth> I want to do something evil 20:48:04 <planetmaker> :-) 20:48:12 <andythenorth> each farm cluster also gains a farm supply drop off industry 20:48:13 <planetmaker> or rather >:-O 20:48:29 <andythenorth> and industries can communicate :P 20:48:33 <andythenorth> which o/c they can't :P 20:49:09 <andythenorth> if I was using trains or boats I could use autorefit and backload supplies 20:49:22 <andythenorth> but serving all farms with trains or boats also looks stupid 20:49:46 <andythenorth> and HEQS trams shouldn't autorefit (they do, but then the game throws nice error messages :D ) 20:50:18 <andythenorth> in summary, I don't like unwinnable problems 20:50:27 <andythenorth> there's no win condition that can be reached here with the available tools :P 20:53:31 <planetmaker> what's wrong with using RV to supply farms from a nearby depot (=transfer station)? 20:54:40 <andythenorth> too many stations :) 20:54:58 <andythenorth> the problem isn't specific to farms really; it's specific to the number of cargos to pickup / dropoff 20:55:00 <planetmaker> one per farm? :-) 20:55:15 <andythenorth> it just looks stupid at farms, whereas at processing industries it looks correct 20:55:38 <andythenorth> pickup stations block, so waiting loops etc are needed 20:56:10 <andythenorth> I can't actually think of a good solution beyond complaining ;) 20:56:27 <andythenorth> I offered 'farms are one big industry' but it seemed unpopular 20:57:12 <andythenorth> I guess changing supplies algorithm might count as a fix 20:57:26 <andythenorth> one big delivery occasionally instead of trying to get small deliveries through the congestion 20:57:31 <planetmaker> for farms with short path to supply depot you can forgo the "full load" order and just use normal load. Thus won't block 20:58:11 <planetmaker> with road side stops it won't even really show much 20:58:22 <Alberth> give up on trying to get maximum amount of cargo from them? 20:59:00 <planetmaker> maybe :-P 20:59:32 <planetmaker> with really max production... it's difficult to use only one. But a few well-placed stops do. As one station 21:00:22 <andythenorth> hmm 21:00:46 <andythenorth> not using full load might be plausible if I can match vehicles to output better 21:01:13 <andythenorth> someone had a patch for something like 'wait in depot until station is free' or such 21:01:29 <andythenorth> would prevent blocking 21:01:32 <andythenorth> bit fiddly 21:02:20 *** telanus2 [~telanus@196-210-209-179.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:02:37 <planetmaker> station will be free, if you don't use full load 21:02:41 <planetmaker> or you really have too many vehicles 21:02:53 <andythenorth> what rules out the "load at least x%" idea that's suggested occasionally ? 21:02:53 <planetmaker> rather you need means to time schedule the vehicles properly 21:03:16 *** TrueBrain_ [~patric@ip82-139-83-21.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 21:03:54 <andythenorth> I should maybe match vehicles to output 21:04:02 <andythenorth> trams have 4x monthly output 21:04:06 <andythenorth> so take 4 months to load 21:04:41 <andythenorth> but travel time means more smaller vehicles would be needed 21:04:46 <andythenorth> and that's higher capital cost 21:05:33 <andythenorth> there's no obvious single cause or fix for this 21:05:50 <andythenorth> rv-wagons would allow a tram to have one supply vehicle at the end 21:06:02 <andythenorth> changing FIRS supplies would allow occasional large deliveries 21:06:25 <andythenorth> inter-industry communication would allow a completely different approach to supplies 21:06:40 <andythenorth> could do this as a town-effect cargo :P 21:06:40 *** TrueBrain [~patric@ip82-139-83-21.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:09:46 <frosch123> night 21:09:50 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7d24.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:05 <andythenorth> hmm 21:10:11 <andythenorth> my game is building missing industries 21:10:30 <andythenorth> Alberth: if the game had *lots* of missing types it might not play catchup so well? 21:10:40 <andythenorth> whereas if there are few it has a better chance? 21:10:54 <andythenorth> or does it adjust required amounts proportionally? 21:11:25 <andythenorth> ah, also frequency matters 21:13:06 <Alberth> the missing industry types that are forced to exist are separately handled from the random count, and take priority, except that there has to be missing industries 21:13:25 <Alberth> (as pointed out by Eddi) 21:14:39 <Alberth> I don't remember what happens exactly when it is up-to-date, it might just verify that the probabilities have not changed, and quit 21:14:44 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@82-170-153-183.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:16:59 * Alberth doubts the action 2 in the cb tut defines 133 loading stages :p 21:17:24 <planetmaker> hehe, rather not. iirc you can only have 4 21:17:59 <andythenorth> Alberth: ok, it's interesting to watch opening on a FIRS game 21:18:03 <andythenorth> it's not science :P 21:18:23 <andythenorth> I know have 0 slots, I think all available chains have at least one instance 21:18:31 <andythenorth> but some are in small proportion 21:18:46 <andythenorth> I need to try using cb22 to dump their probability to maximum maybe 21:19:07 <andythenorth> but to make that work I have to count industries to prevent spamming the map with the new type over 50 years or so :P 21:19:13 <andythenorth> and that needs map scaling too 21:19:46 <andythenorth> not tonight :) 21:20:04 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1242499104.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 21:20:14 <drac_boy> hi 21:20:35 <Alberth> http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/CallbacksTut#Example1:_using_Callback_33_.28new_sounds.29 <-- what's the 85 in sprite 13 ? http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action2/Vehicles says it's a num-loadtypes 21:20:46 <andythenorth> I have vehicles that will take >70 years to pay back their purchase cost :) 21:21:05 <Alberth> no sleep tonight thus :) 21:21:33 <andythenorth> 85? 21:21:39 <andythenorth> var size(?) 21:21:45 <andythenorth> I am no good with terms 21:21:48 <drac_boy> 70 years..why? 21:21:48 <andythenorth> that's a word 21:22:02 <andythenorth> k purchase, 0/year profit 21:22:30 <andythenorth> Alberth: that varaction2 is checking a word sized var 21:22:43 <andythenorth> the one above is checking a byte, hence 81 there 21:23:01 <andythenorth> you'll see the ranges in each are appropriately word and byte sized too 21:23:21 <andythenorth> you need varaction 2 spec, not action 2 spec 21:23:24 <andythenorth> ;) 21:23:37 <andythenorth> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2 21:24:02 <drac_boy> does it only carry like 1 or 2 tonnes of cargo? 21:24:41 <Alberth> how should I reach that conclusion? 21:25:11 <Alberth> drac_boy: or too close to make any useful profit, or too slow, or too high running cost, or ... :) 21:26:06 <andythenorth> it carries 4 crates 21:27:57 <Alberth> one thing that might be useful to change is to check the percentage of missing industries instead of the count. 21:28:59 <andythenorth> so try to build the idealised ratio according to probabilities? 21:29:27 <andythenorth> hmm 21:29:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6B3FA.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 21:29:46 <andythenorth> what's the actual issue I see? 21:30:10 <andythenorth> - num. industries matters where enough primaries are needed to supply a secondary with decent production 21:31:06 <andythenorth> - num industries slightly matters on larger maps, to avoid huge distances between supply / accept, but that could be solved by cb28 21:31:23 <andythenorth> second reason is a non-reason actually 21:31:54 <Alberth> right, so action 3 assumes variational action 2 instead of normal action 2? 21:32:14 <Alberth> grr, why didn't they give them a new action number 21:32:48 <andythenorth> action 3 is happy with an action 2 or varaction 2 21:33:21 <andythenorth> it's easier if you turn sanity checks off in your brain 21:33:28 *** avdg [~avdg@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:33:32 <andythenorth> nfo is completely fine (except stations) 21:33:35 <Belugas> that would make an excellent boy movie... it does not lack actions... 21:33:41 <andythenorth> but don't expect a nice design 21:33:46 *** avdg [~avdg@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:34:07 <Alberth> I always had the idea that computers did not do magic, but I must be too stupid 21:34:20 *** Xaroth_ [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 21:34:35 <Alberth> first issue should be solvable with correct industry probabilities 21:34:51 <andythenorth> plausible 21:34:52 <Alberth> assuming there is enough room for constructing industries 21:34:56 <andythenorth> assuming that 21:35:03 <andythenorth> things look better on my flat map 21:35:06 *** Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 21:35:08 <andythenorth> I usually play mountainous 21:35:22 <andythenorth> flat has plenty of space for new types etc 21:35:49 <andythenorth> btw, I learnt nfo by taking zephyris' uncommented one line sprites, and breaking them to multi-lines with comments 21:36:01 <andythenorth> turns out 50% of my comments were wrong, but code still worked :P 21:36:08 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:13 <andythenorth> understanding is not 100% essential for nfo :P 21:36:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B3FA.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:21 <Alberth> you probably need the terraforming fix to get more industries built 21:36:47 <Alberth> well, it helps a lot when you can find out what page to read :p 21:37:25 <Alberth> well, enough today, good night andy 21:37:41 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:38:47 * andythenorth bed too 21:38:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 21:39:11 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has left #openttd [] 21:39:40 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 21:39:57 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:42:23 *** chester_ [~chester@95-28-179-114.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:49:03 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:50:25 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:52:40 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:56:05 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 21:56:08 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 21:58:59 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 22:00:41 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 22:01:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-16-159.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 22:07:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:07:03 <andythenorth> flat docks please 22:07:06 <andythenorth> for use on rivers 22:07:09 <andythenorth> k thx bai 22:07:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 22:11:54 <Starlight> .. Little does he know that rivers are objects. :s 22:12:36 <drac_boy> Starlight yeah, wonder where he got that confused :) 22:13:19 <Starlight> Lol. I don't know the under laying workings of OpenTTD, but rivers can be blown up. :P 22:15:08 <Starlight> GRF just seems to be a headache to me.. and if I were to code anything, I have to make sure it's compatible with [insert cargo/trainset/tracks/roads/station here]. 22:18:30 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:20:05 <drac_boy> starlight I don't really see any need to..just make it generic, its rather simple 22:20:22 <Starlight> Hm. I might take a crack at it some day. 22:20:55 <drac_boy> although tracks do have a bit difficulity with different track gauge in term of pixels :/ (eg NG tracks need narrower platform clearances than SG ones) 22:21:22 <Starlight> Yeah, understandable. 22:21:42 * Zuu_ just posted yet another Game Script. 22:22:21 <Zuu_> Although in this case, it is actually not for players, but for people who want to write their own GS and might have use for my template GS. 22:26:01 <drac_boy> starlight mind you I'm sorta still debating the cargo labels in my slowly-coming-along grf yet :-s 22:26:37 <Starlight> Yeah. Was going to use ECS, but noticed it and NARS2 isn't too compatible at a certain year frame. 22:26:42 <drac_boy> at least the rolling stock list is almost finished..just some missing holes especially re no late goods wagons etc 22:26:59 <planetmaker> very nice idea, Zuu_ :-) 22:27:35 <drac_boy> starlight..mm I'm not planning to use any existing industries/cargos just yet tho.. 22:27:47 <Starlight> *nod* 22:29:39 <planetmaker> a cargo is a common name associated with a label and some properties which sort-of describe it like weight per unit and payment rates 22:30:47 <Zuu_> planetmaker: it have been staying around on my harddrive for several months now and SquireJames interest into creating a GS gave me the final push to tidy it up and publish for others to use too. 22:31:03 <planetmaker> :-) 22:32:05 <Zuu_> While I agree on the non-war wishes, I think that its better to let him experiment and do his thing and see what he may come up with. 22:32:59 <Zuu_> He could easily add a parameter to enable/disable war events as long as there are other events too. 22:33:02 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-36-54.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120808131812]] 22:33:21 <planetmaker> I must have missed that thread them. I concur with your view, though 22:33:34 <Zuu_> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=59277 <-- thread 22:34:46 <planetmaker> oh, I posted there :D 22:35:17 <planetmaker> 3 months 5 months ago... 22:50:07 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1242499104.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 22:50:40 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 23:17:22 *** TrueBrain_ is now known as TrueBrain 23:17:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AF23.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:49 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 23:19:25 <NGC3982> Im dissapointed. 23:19:36 <NGC3982> I have not yet seen a Curiosity GRF. 23:19:52 * NGC3982 taps his wooden leg on the floor, giggles and goes to slep. 23:19:54 <NGC3982> +e. 23:22:24 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-33-107.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 23:28:30 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-95-166.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:33:46 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:34:53 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1242499104.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 23:49:45 *** argoneus [~argoneus@ip-78-102-118-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 23:49:48 <argoneus> Hello 23:49:53 <argoneus> Can anyone here help me with AI development? 23:50:03 <argoneus> Or is this chat about the game only 23:54:09 <Terkhen> argoneus: this channel is for anything AI related 23:55:04 <Terkhen> but right now most of the usuals are sleeping already 23:55:06 <argoneus> I don't quite understand how lists here work 23:55:20 <argoneus> for example, I can't get it to print the list of towns alphabetically 23:55:32 <Terkhen> I don't know much about AI development myself, so I can't help you 23:55:35 <argoneus> I see 23:55:48 <Terkhen> you might want to give the AI development subforum a try 23:55:58 <Terkhen> and, IIRC, there are tutorials at the wiki 23:56:25 <argoneus> I'm following those 23:58:07 <planetmaker> argoneus: and you had a look at existing AIs as well? 23:58:23 <argoneus> planetmaker: yes, but they are extremely complex 23:58:26 <argoneus> for me anyway