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00:03:48 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:05:08 *** Strid_ [~Strid@c-9ac9e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 00:08:45 *** Strid [~Strid@c-a1cfe455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:10:49 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0e2f7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 00:13:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure i have seen code that prevents "conflicting" industries nearby 00:22:16 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.80.156] has joined #openttd 00:54:47 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 01:01:59 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-89-176-31-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 01:02:19 *** BadBrett [~Bad_Brett@90-227-32-82-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:03:01 *** BadBrett [~Bad_Brett@90-227-32-82-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 01:21:45 *** Wold [~Wold@93-152-170-93.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:22:03 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-239-112.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:22:11 *** Wold [~Wold@93-152-170-93.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #openttd 01:27:25 *** hmmwhatsthisdo [~hmmwhatst@h75-100-224-83.lactwa.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #openttd 01:27:44 <hmmwhatsthisdo> Is it possible to link airports? 01:27:58 <hmmwhatsthisdo> (e.g. through control-click or putting them next to one another) 01:40:20 <Supercheese> nope 01:45:53 <hmmwhatsthisdo> damn. 01:46:09 <Supercheese> yeah, would be nice, but not possible; same goes for docks 01:46:50 <hmmwhatsthisdo> yea... I currently have an intercontinental airport with planes flying in a holding pattern for... "weeks" 01:47:06 <Supercheese> International airport is technically more efficient than Intercontinental 01:47:08 <Supercheese> as strange as it sounds 01:47:14 <hmmwhatsthisdo> really? 01:47:18 <Supercheese> yeah 01:47:21 <Supercheese> lemme dig up the proof 01:47:24 <planetmaker> I see the need for ports - for eye candy reasons. But for airports...? SC is right, yes 01:47:46 <Supercheese> Here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=47279 02:00:29 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-224-131.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 02:06:17 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-28-183.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:41:59 <hmmwhatsthisdo> I'm finding a lot of stuff about modular airports, but all of it seems to be 3-4 years old. Did something happen with OpenTTD that stopped development of it all? 02:42:11 <Supercheese> I think development is just paused 02:42:46 <hmmwhatsthisdo> mmkay 02:42:56 <hmmwhatsthisdo> Is anyone even bothering with development anymore? 02:43:04 <Supercheese> with that specifically? 02:43:05 <Supercheese> I dunno 02:43:07 <Supercheese> in general? of course 02:46:09 <planetmaker> hmmwhatsthisdo, modular airports is a tricky issue with implications in many places. Especially the specs need to become sane... 02:46:35 <planetmaker> and sane specs for airports need still quite a bit of behind-the-scenes changes. 02:46:46 <planetmaker> It's not forgotten, not reject, but not yet done either 02:47:00 <hmmwhatsthisdo> yea, I read something about the system that would be needed to interact with the state machine (I'm guessing that's analogous to the Air Traffic Controller) would be diabolically hard 02:47:08 <planetmaker> and for what it's worth: it's a wanted feature 02:47:41 <planetmaker> well... kinda. airports have fixed movement patterns for how vehicles can move in them 02:48:13 <hmmwhatsthisdo> and the state machine makes those? 02:48:20 <planetmaker> or call it rules instead of pattern, if you want 02:48:27 <planetmaker> that *is* the state machine 02:48:30 <hmmwhatsthisdo> oh. 02:49:20 <planetmaker> but the problem with that kind of airports is even more fundamental... they need access to more scopes than currently are available; they can't interact with that many related objects as they need to 02:50:19 <hmmwhatsthisdo> so, in essence it would require way more work than it might seem? 02:50:51 <planetmaker> in essence: yes. Not would. But does. At least for a nice solution ;-) 02:52:29 <planetmaker> But still... we *will* get this nice solution. But not this year 02:53:11 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/Secondary_Related_Objects is kinda the pre-condition I talk(ed) about 02:53:40 <planetmaker> we're still missing colums 3,4 and 5 ;-) 02:54:18 <planetmaker> (yes, very technical, I know) 02:54:19 <hmmwhatsthisdo> ah 02:54:30 <hmmwhatsthisdo> yea... it's a little bit difficult to read 02:55:41 <planetmaker> it's intended as memo to devs of what makes sense / is wanted and needed... 02:57:31 <planetmaker> in any case... airports likely won't get modular by this. They just will be possibly defined via NewGRF. Thus many different ones become possible 02:57:45 <hmmwhatsthisdo> I wonder... 02:58:05 <planetmaker> in the same way like you now can define industries, houses or vehicles via newgrf 02:58:10 <hmmwhatsthisdo> Wasn't there a feature in RCT2 that allowed people to prefab rollercoasters then use them in-game? 02:58:43 <planetmaker> I don't know. Nor does it really matter ;-) 02:59:49 <hmmwhatsthisdo> Well, maybe instead of having truly modular airports that are built on-the-fly, there should be a method to prefab airports, have all the complicated stuff done beforehand, then save and use them in-game 03:00:17 <Supercheese> that's essentially what NewAirport grfs would do 03:00:31 <planetmaker> The method to come is to allow add-on authors define their own airports 03:00:47 <planetmaker> ingame by the players... not so likely 03:01:02 <Supercheese> ^ that 03:02:34 <hmmwhatsthisdo> mmk 03:20:02 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-68-173-32-121.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:53:06 <supermop> hi 03:53:40 <Supercheese> salve 03:53:56 <supermop> how's it going? 04:08:35 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c51c:55f9:c42a:b7ac] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:42:00 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 04:43:03 <Supercheese> was working a thermodynamics problem 04:43:31 <Supercheese> involving geothermal power plants; flash evaporator pressures vs. turbine power outputs 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67D09.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:56:02 <supermop> sounds like a good use of time 04:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66F1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:56:20 <Supercheese> took a while 05:01:12 *** hmmwhatsthisdo [~hmmwhatst@h75-100-224-83.lactwa.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:21:24 *** telanus [~telanus@196-215-153-66.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 05:29:55 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:49:38 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.10.233] has joined #openttd 05:50:45 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-68-173-32-121.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 05:51:16 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 05:59:40 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.10.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:06:46 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-112-81.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 06:08:49 *** Zuu 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quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:36:20 *** pm is now known as planetmaker 06:36:22 *** tneo [~tneo@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:39:57 <Supercheese> good night 06:40:30 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427]] 06:56:46 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-155-173-209.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 07:03:55 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 07:28:43 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:30:51 *** telanus [~telanus@196-215-90-156.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 07:35:32 *** telanus1 [~telanus@196-215-90-156.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:52:34 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.80.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:07:46 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.80.156] has joined #openttd 08:15:39 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 08:32:10 <|Terkhen|> good morning 08:32:42 *** |Terkhen| is now known as Terkhen 08:50:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:50:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 08:59:33 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 09:17:42 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.80.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:25:34 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.80.156] has joined #openttd 09:43:31 <Eddi|zuHause> is there a way to insert an action 0C in nml? 09:47:54 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 09:50:45 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.80.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:15:56 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, that option doesn't exist. Also it will be very hard to do as you cannot define a place really 10:16:31 <planetmaker> nml ordering need not refer to nml ordering except the things which absolutely need be in order 10:16:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i doubt it would really be hard 10:17:14 <planetmaker> not hard to add. but difficult to decide what it should refer to. 10:17:48 <planetmaker> i.e. it will be hard to do it in a way that produces the results which you might expect 10:18:01 <planetmaker> (and why do you need action 0x0C? 10:18:19 <Eddi|zuHause> well let's call it "debugging symbols" 10:18:53 <planetmaker> care to elaborate? 10:19:58 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, the idea was that i take each vehicle gnml and individually compile it to nfo/grf, then throw out everything to a "this is where headers end" marker, and combine that to a complete grf 10:20:29 <Eddi|zuHause> to avoid shoving the entire nml into nmlc, which it kinda barfs on 10:21:28 <planetmaker> I see. Shouldn't it rather be fixed to not barf on the entire NML? what happens if you comment in (or out) single vehicle files? 10:21:42 <planetmaker> (I know you want to use it to fix the entire thing) 10:22:18 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the sheer size of the parse tree that currently makes it close to unhandle-able 10:22:47 <Eddi|zuHause> python is not very memory efficient 10:23:43 <Eddi|zuHause> you could probably reduce it by factor 100-ish by implementing it in C++ 10:24:00 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-112-81.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 10:24:40 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:25:59 *** Thibit [~Thibi@50-39-251-253.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 10:26:23 <planetmaker> maybe, yes 10:27:49 *** Thibit [~Thibi@50-39-251-253.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [] 10:29:57 *** Wold [~Wold@93-152-170-93.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:30:35 *** Wold [~Wold@93-152-170-93.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #openttd 10:35:49 *** George is now known as Guest8870 10:35:53 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 10:39:54 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.80.156] has joined #openttd 10:41:42 *** Guest8870 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:52:30 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@wced-95-218-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 10:54:56 *** devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:54:56 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:55:01 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 11:15:55 <planetmaker> http://wiki.debian.org/TheFable is an awkward familiar story 11:26:31 <Pinkbeast> Dear Railworks / Train Simulator 2013, why why is getting the HUD right for steam engines so hard? 11:29:29 <planetmaker> topic? 11:31:31 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 11:35:20 <dada_> anyone know if there's a way to remove/delete companies from a single player savegame? console tells me that those commands are only available in a network game. 11:35:49 <Pinkbeast> Would it suffice to take them over with the cheat commands and bankrupt them? 11:35:57 <dada_> I guess I could do that. 11:36:52 <dada_> hm, this one has 200 million euros 11:36:56 <dada_> this will take a while 11:37:13 <Pinkbeast> Nope; raise and lower land in and out of the sea. You can chew up any amount of cash quickly. 11:37:45 <Pinkbeast> ... ISTR, no promises, that demolishing sea into land which then floods is also an efficient way to waste money. 11:38:09 <dada_> ah yeah that works too 11:38:52 <dada_> if you have money to burn that might be a nice way to bully your opponent's ships 11:40:36 <Pinkbeast> If you're going in for thank kind of cheese, stompifying his RVs is a lot less hassle. :-) 11:43:32 <planetmaker> good that there are even AI which detect that kind of sabotage ;-) 11:44:50 *** argoneus [~argoneus@ip-78-102-118-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:47:04 <dada_> ok, maximum loan, no income, no funds. guess it's just a matter of waiting now. 11:53:20 <Eddi|zuHause> dada_: there are two ways. if it's an AI company, use the stop_ai command, if it's a human company, save the game, start a multiplayer game (without anyone else joining) and use the multiplayer-only commands. 11:53:57 <dada_> I just got asked if I want to take over the company, so I guess I'm making progress (said no) 11:54:12 <dada_> Eddi|zuHause: thanks, I've gone the hackish way of bankrupting them instead 12:02:38 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@wced-95-218-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! 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15:09:05 <Pinkbeast> Nice to have. 15:09:32 <Pinkbeast> ... in practice I find autorefit tricky to make use of. 15:09:32 <supermop> same 15:09:49 <Pinkbeast> I might even incline to meh 15:10:45 *** Lord_Aro is now known as LordAro 15:11:29 <LordAro> hey all 15:14:48 *** LordAro_ [~LordAro@host81-155-169-162.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:16:09 * andythenorth might do a poll 15:18:09 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 15:18:38 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-89-176-31-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:19:07 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:19:12 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 15:19:13 <andythenorth> take a poll here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=62829 15:19:17 <andythenorth> click now! 15:19:20 <andythenorth> your views count! 15:19:28 <andythenorth> people died for your right to vote! 15:22:46 <supermop> it's really hard to motivate myself to draw anything again 15:23:26 <supermop> yet when i try to play ottd about twice a year, i am too unsatisfied that the things i want in my game are not there 15:23:30 <andythenorth> draw some blooody ships :P 15:23:43 <supermop> so i think i am drifting away from the game as a result 15:23:47 <andythenorth> happens 15:23:52 <andythenorth> no game lasts for ever 15:24:07 <andythenorth> played any GS games? 15:24:11 <supermop> nope 15:24:32 <andythenorth> total saviour of the game for me 15:24:49 <andythenorth> otherwise I'd have had to do the big flouncy "I'm leaving" thing 15:25:54 <supermop> saw a building in chinatown last night that would both be easy to draw and look good in game 15:26:25 <supermop> and match the general style of other buildings I have drawn 15:26:38 <andythenorth> with challenge GS all the 'game needs xyz' stuff disappears :) 15:26:49 <andythenorth> you're too focussed on meeting the goal to look at graphics ;) 15:27:04 <supermop> i like looking at little buildings 15:27:15 <supermop> i see the game as a metabolism simulator 15:27:30 <andythenorth> try a new way to make buildings: http://www.bricklink.com 15:27:31 <Pinkbeast> I realised I'd be vexed if it broke HEQS tram refitting, so I think there's no denying I'm "meh" about it. 15:27:56 <supermop> oh man andy 15:28:15 <supermop> about a year ago i was so pumped at planning out how to build the capsule tower in legos 15:28:27 <supermop> then i saw someone had already done it 15:28:37 <andythenorth> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=architecture&stype=dfic 15:29:30 <supermop> then whenever i start thinking about making toy buildings 15:29:46 <supermop> i remember i am an architect in a career rut 15:29:58 <supermop> and i should do something about that instead 15:30:59 <supermop> or i get side tracked by other hobbies like food coffee or records 15:31:09 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:31:27 <andythenorth> I wanted to be an architect 15:31:30 <andythenorth> then I didn't :) 15:31:35 <supermop> good choice 15:31:41 <supermop> most of us are out of work 15:31:56 <supermop> and at least in the us woefully underpaid 15:32:05 <andythenorth> I got really into Calatrava's stuff for a bit 15:32:17 <supermop> he's actually a civil engineer 15:32:44 <andythenorth> I know 15:32:48 <andythenorth> well he did both degrees 15:32:52 <andythenorth> I was studying C Eng. 15:32:57 <andythenorth> but that sucked so I stopped 15:33:14 <andythenorth> I was going to do C. Eng then architecture degrees 15:33:26 <andythenorth> but that would have been 8 years + 4 years to get chartered 15:33:34 <andythenorth> education is over-rated :p 15:34:18 <supermop> ha 15:34:30 <supermop> i'd stay in school forever if i could afford it 15:34:57 <supermop> speaking of getting sidetracked, 15:34:58 <Jake> University education certainly is, though, at least when it comes to finding a job. 15:35:03 <supermop> are you good with plants? 15:35:27 <supermop> i need to repot my jade 15:35:49 <supermop> living in chinatown there is no dirt on the ground so i have to go buy some 15:36:29 *** jack [~jack@c-71-236-228-67.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 15:37:10 <Jake> I'm sure the Parks & Rec department wouldn't mind you borrowing some if you'd rather not find a garden centre. 15:39:13 *** matts [518d1912@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 15:40:22 *** matts [518d1912@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [] 15:47:26 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:47:30 *** Jake_ [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:47:32 *** Jake_ is now known as Jake 15:51:33 <FLHerne> Heightmaps don't do rivers, do they? 15:51:36 * FLHerne forgot 15:55:26 <Elukka> i wish they did 15:55:34 <Elukka> that'd make them a million times easier to do 15:57:42 *** KenjiE20 is now known as Guest30 15:57:49 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 15:58:58 <planetmaker> heya 15:59:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth, don't you think you should ask your autorefit question in general openttd? 15:59:35 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has joined #openttd 16:00:12 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [] 16:00:20 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 16:01:03 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:01:33 *** Guest30 [kenjie20@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:11:05 <andythenorth> planetmaker: maybe 16:11:10 <andythenorth> I thought it was newgrf specific 16:11:14 <andythenorth> feel free to move it 16:11:36 <planetmaker> there are arguments for either forum. Your choice. I just wonder 16:11:53 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 16:17:25 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:52 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 16:18:12 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: goodbyte] 16:20:42 <andythenorth> 'meh' is winning for autorefit so far 16:20:45 <andythenorth> small sample size though 16:21:07 <planetmaker> that's why I was asking: exposure is small in that subforum compared to general 16:21:42 *** BadBrett [~Bad_Brett@90-227-32-82-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:21:51 <andythenorth> planetmaker: move the post ;) 16:21:58 *** BadBrett [~Bad_Brett@90-227-32-82-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 16:22:26 *** Guest8732 is now known as Fawksie 16:23:40 <andythenorth> I do wonder if autorefit is over-rated for gameplay 16:23:40 <planetmaker> andythenorth, done. 16:23:46 <andythenorth> thanks 16:23:52 <andythenorth> especially, we have no partial load orders etc 16:24:07 <andythenorth> and the cases where there is a useful backload may be limited 16:24:18 <planetmaker> andythenorth, autorefit available will load different cargos concurrently 16:24:20 <andythenorth> I have only used it a bit with UKRS 2 16:24:26 <andythenorth> ah yes 16:24:30 <planetmaker> which is helpful in some stations 16:24:40 <andythenorth> autorefit + YACD would have been significantly awesome 16:24:49 <planetmaker> very much so 16:24:53 <andythenorth> different cargos concurrently is no use for ships or RVs or planes though ;) 16:25:01 <planetmaker> that's true 16:25:19 <planetmaker> but still, like "load available" will take the most common cargo which can be good 16:25:26 <planetmaker> and ensure good rating for all of them 16:26:26 <andythenorth> would be more useful if ships had n holds :) 16:26:43 <planetmaker> would make sense from that perspective, yes. 16:27:39 <frosch123> planetmaker: autorefit is far more suitable for trains 16:27:53 <frosch123> not so much for other vehicles 16:28:08 <planetmaker> yes, of course 16:28:13 <frosch123> ah, andy said that already 16:28:21 <planetmaker> And I fully agree 16:28:53 <frosch123> though it should also work for small rv 16:29:03 <frosch123> i.e. when you have many of them 16:29:12 <planetmaker> well, it does, doesn't it? 16:29:35 <frosch123> in the only usecase i had for autorefit, i played nuts, and was not allowed to :p 16:29:52 <andythenorth> it's odd though, to have it for small rv, but not large :P 16:30:11 <frosch123> well, large rv are specialised 16:30:15 <frosch123> sell it as game balance 16:30:20 <frosch123> either big cheap stuff 16:30:22 <frosch123> or small universal 16:30:48 <frosch123> might give small vehicles some use :) 16:32:56 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Autorefit is awesome :D 16:33:17 <FLHerne> Now I can transport every mineral cargo in FIRS on one set of trains :p 16:37:03 <Nat_aS> I don't care as much about auto-refit, as the ability to mix cargos 16:37:09 <Nat_aS> esp on cargo planes to remote islands with farms 16:37:23 <Nat_aS> two planes won't make a profit, but there are two types of cargo 16:37:38 <Nat_aS> one plane would make a profit if it could hold both cargos 16:37:48 <Nat_aS> and then transport a mixture of food and goods back to the island. 16:38:14 <FLHerne> Nat_aS: Multi-cargo things without autorefit don't work properly :P 16:38:39 <Nat_aS> lol 16:38:46 <Nat_aS> well that's why I want auto-refit then 16:39:09 <Nat_aS> because airplanes have really tight cargo margins, that are suposed to be made up for by there superior flexibility 16:39:35 <Nat_aS> but they are less flexible because a train can cary more than one cargo, and a plane can't 16:39:45 <FLHerne> Well, they work but they never balance properly. So all you get is full load of one thing, and lots of space on the other side :-( 16:39:51 <FLHerne> 'planes can carry mail :P 16:40:09 <Nat_aS> adding empty cars to a train does little to reduce efficancy 16:40:28 <Nat_aS> so if you have long stations you can make a train that's half full both ways, but carrying two kinds of cargo 16:40:38 <Nat_aS> it's less of a problem than airplanes. 16:40:48 <FLHerne> Same happens for planes though. And that *is* inefficient :P 16:41:16 <FLHerne> Why would you make one train for two cargos? Why not just two separate ones of half the length? 16:41:21 <Nat_aS> less inefficant than having to buy a second airplane just to carry grain AND livestock 16:41:35 <Nat_aS> I really like the C130 in AV8 though 16:41:44 <Nat_aS> it's perfect for diamonds 16:42:50 * FLHerne hasn't tried airfreight much :P 16:46:47 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has quit [Quit: [RESET]] 16:52:07 <NGC3982> I so want to build a NewGRF with warpdrive 16:55:19 *** keoz [~keikoz@159.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 17:05:17 * FLHerne complains about error priority 17:06:41 <FLHerne> If I try to play a scenario containing no towns, it complains about GUI sprites (nightly) instead of mentioning the actually-serious issue 17:11:59 <planetmaker> FLHerne, as the missing gui sprites will be an issue in every game (update your opengfx) 17:12:10 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:00 <FLHerne> planetmaker: I have :P 17:13:20 <FLHerne> But a few missing gui sprites don't stop me playing :P 17:14:13 <planetmaker> FLHerne, the current bananas release of opengfx gives you that?! 17:15:14 <FLHerne> It does now :-) 17:15:20 <FLHerne> Very convenient :P 17:15:44 <FLHerne> Also, how come rivers can be overbuilt with canals, but not the opposite? 17:22:53 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:23:26 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 17:26:14 <frosch123> ah! 17:26:21 <frosch123> open the bottle before trying to drink 17:26:25 <frosch123> that's how it works 17:31:00 <andythenorth> orly? 17:31:07 <andythenorth> can you start a newsletter about that? 17:31:52 <andythenorth> so I await poll results 17:32:00 <andythenorth> but I would bet that autorefit is 'meh' 17:32:10 <frosch123> you mean something like a list of nak codes your mouth can send, and what they mean? 17:32:10 <andythenorth> and that will make BANDIT / HEQS so much easier 17:32:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:34:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:34:33 *** Guest8 is now known as Biolunar 17:34:36 <andythenorth> child fell over in the bath :P 17:34:44 <andythenorth> every time I mix irc and bathtime, something bad happens :P 17:35:06 *** Biolunar is now known as Guest45 17:35:24 *** Guest45 is now known as Biolunar 17:38:30 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Get a waterproof tablet :P 17:40:19 <andythenorth> bad for the child 17:40:24 <andythenorth> laptop, don't care about :P 17:40:52 <FLHerne> Keyboards are hard to make waterproof ;-) 17:42:02 *** jack [~jack@c-71-236-228-67.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:42:14 <andythenorth> so....rv-wagons 17:42:19 <andythenorth> would that improve gameplay? 17:42:29 <andythenorth> or is it lots more tedious clicking? 17:42:43 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.80.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:44:09 <frosch123> so...tile based airports 17:44:14 <frosch123> would that improve gameplay? 17:44:19 <frosch123> or is it lots more tedious clicking? 17:45:13 <andythenorth> yes 17:45:14 <FLHerne> andythenorth: The former yes, dunno about the latter 17:45:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24563 /trunk/src/lang (lithuanian.txt welsh.txt) (2012-10-01 17:45:14 UTC) 17:45:23 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:24 <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 8 changes by RunisLabs 17:45:25 <DorpsGek> welsh - 13 changes by kazzie 17:45:41 <andythenorth> frosch123: my or was OR not XOR 17:45:41 <FLHerne> I'd prefer the current airport system, but with newgrf-definable ones :P 17:46:15 <FLHerne> RV-wagons would be very good for trams :-) 17:46:31 <andythenorth> meh 17:46:36 <andythenorth> trams should just be a railtype 17:46:56 * andythenorth thinks everything should be a railtype 17:47:00 <andythenorth> it's a train game anyway 17:47:14 <andythenorth> if we remove the other types, that will improve performance right? 17:47:25 <andythenorth> and developers can spend time on codes for trains 17:47:28 <andythenorth> more effficient :P 17:47:43 <frosch123> i thought everything was a cargo :p 17:48:11 *** Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:48:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AFC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:48:50 <andythenorth> I thought you were working on that in a branch? 17:50:01 <andythenorth> using tile based airports, can I create 'roads' ? 17:50:11 <andythenorth> and a 'truck' that flies at 0 feet 17:54:19 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:55:57 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 18:00:19 <frosch123> yes 18:00:53 <frosch123> but they cannot have trailers 18:01:05 <andythenorth> can't I abuse the shadow? 18:01:34 <frosch123> new rotors :p 18:01:48 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:06 <andythenorth> NewRotors 18:06:42 *** Wold [~Wold@93-152-170-93.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:10:05 *** jack [~jack@c-71-236-228-67.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 18:16:14 <frosch123> hmm, someone knows whether the inflation is reset when starting a scenario? 18:24:12 <frosch123> @calc 2**(63-32) 18:24:12 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 2147483648 18:27:53 <frosch123> omg... 18:32:06 *** Wold [~Wold@93-152-170-93.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #openttd 18:53:57 <BadBrett> i'm beginning to hate FIRS... everytime i come up with a new idea, it's already there :p 18:54:18 <andythenorth> [shrug] 18:54:18 <andythenorth> :P 18:54:42 <BadBrett> at least i have 2-3 exclusive industries :p 18:54:59 <andythenorth> FIRS is just a copy of Railroad Tycoon 18:55:54 <BadBrett> well... that explains a lot... because i use RRT as inspiration as well 18:55:58 <BadBrett> :) 19:07:44 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:12:17 <andythenorth> so what does autorefit do with subtypes? 19:12:26 <andythenorth> preserve current? 19:12:35 <andythenorth> pick first? 19:15:05 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-26-128.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:17:02 *** devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:18:48 <andythenorth> I guess the code knows :P 19:21:26 *** devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:21:35 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 19:21:35 <FLHerne> andythenorth: New crazy idea? :P 19:21:47 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 19:22:01 <FLHerne> Just got back, the extractor fan was shorting everything out :-( 19:28:10 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 19:28:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:29:38 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24564 /trunk/src (economy.cpp saveload/afterload.cpp) (2012-10-01 19:29:31 UTC) 19:29:39 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5312] (r17433): Limiting the inflation did not quite work. 19:32:01 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24565 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2012-10-01 19:31:55 UTC) 19:32:02 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Stop both price and payment inflation if either of them has reached MAX_INFLATION. 19:33:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:33:35 <Kitty> I wish there was a way to merge two stations... 19:33:52 <frosch123> upon construction or later? 19:35:55 <Kitty> later 19:38:14 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24566 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2012-10-01 19:38:08 UTC) 19:38:15 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Reorder some code more intuitively. (Juanjo) 19:39:03 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24567 trunk/src/vehicle_cmd.cpp (2012-10-01 19:38:57 UTC) 19:39:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CF21.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:39:04 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5261]: Non-train vehicle lists were not resorted when vehicles were renamed. (Juanjo) 19:39:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.173.4] has joined #openttd 19:40:17 <andythenorth> where is autorefit in src? 19:40:32 <supermop> bought dirt 19:40:37 <frosch123> economy.cpp 19:40:45 <frosch123> iirc 19:42:25 <andythenorth> some stuff there yes 19:43:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24568 trunk/src/group_cmd.cpp (2012-10-01 19:43:10 UTC) 19:43:18 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: No need to resort the group GUI when toggling the autoreplace protection. (Juanjo) 19:43:27 <andythenorth> if I read it correctly, autorefit does try to use the subtype specified in orders 19:46:36 <frosch123> ignore that 19:46:39 <andythenorth> could the station refit menu gain a new cb? 19:46:44 <frosch123> subtype in orders makes no sense 19:46:53 <andythenorth> because...? 19:46:59 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-53-243.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:47:04 <frosch123> is broken, and probably needs removal for fs#3764 19:47:18 <frosch123> it only stores the numerical subtype index 19:47:28 <frosch123> which can mean totally different things for different vehicles 19:48:22 <frosch123> so it kind of only works for non-trains and when all vehicles are of the same engine 19:49:06 <frosch123> for fs#3764 i would anticipate that the subtype is dropped from the refit-order gui 19:49:19 <frosch123> and every vehicle tries to refit to the cargo while keeping the subtype 19:50:28 <frosch123> really setting a subtype in the refit order gui, would need some method to store the text it addresses in some way 19:50:32 <frosch123> i have not found such a way :p 19:50:35 *** chester_ [~chester@95-25-93-69.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:50:51 <andythenorth> how about this idea? 19:50:55 <andythenorth> "subtypes are broken" :P 19:52:05 <andythenorth> therefore rm them 19:52:34 * andythenorth is probably being too extreme, again 19:53:06 *** chester_ [~chester@95-25-93-69.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 19:56:25 <andythenorth> we haven't pissed off enough newgrf authors recently 19:56:35 <andythenorth> they have it too easy, what with this new fangled nml thing and such 19:56:44 <frosch123> did you manage to get banned from simuscape? :p 19:56:49 <andythenorth> didn't try 19:56:58 <andythenorth> I am happy with simuscape 19:57:05 <andythenorth> :) 19:57:12 <frosch123> ah, i thought you tried to piss them off, and was banned 19:57:14 <andythenorth> they're happy, we're happy, everyone's happy 19:57:17 <andythenorth> no no 19:57:32 <andythenorth> I thought better about being an idiot :P 19:57:49 <andythenorth> and there were apologies all round too 19:59:43 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-154-201.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 20:04:47 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-112-81.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:08:23 <andythenorth> frosch123: we should Overton Window the newgrf spec ;) 20:08:24 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window 20:09:08 <andythenorth> we propose a totally unacceptable change to newgrf spec 20:09:22 <andythenorth> newgrf authors then declare sky is falling 20:09:33 <andythenorth> then we announce we only change a small section of spec 20:09:44 <andythenorth> newgrf authors have small celebration party 20:10:51 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d173-183-158-32.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:11:30 <frosch123> aren't we more used to the door-in-the-face technique? which is linked from that page :p 20:13:17 <andythenorth> I have tried door-in-the-face on ottd devs, doesn't bloody work :P 20:13:22 <andythenorth> door goes in my face :) 20:14:00 <frosch123> yeah, you have to know the articulations 20:15:17 <andythenorth> he 20:15:47 <Knogle> hm, whats 'industry_platform = 1' in openttd.cfg, its not mention in the wiki 20:16:05 <frosch123> i would guess it is about terraforming 20:16:17 <frosch123> when a industry is build it sometimes tries to level some land 20:16:32 <Knogle> makes sense 20:16:43 <frosch123> maybe it levels industry_platform moretiles to make it look less weird 20:16:56 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:12 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:23:23 <supermop> haha "foot in the face" method 20:23:45 * andythenorth uses "foot in mouth" method too often :P 20:23:45 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 20:24:12 <frosch123> i try to get food in mouth every day 20:24:33 <andythenorth> better than feet 20:25:10 <frosch123> chicken feet? 20:25:37 <frosch123> likely more legs than feet, not sure about the anatomy 20:26:43 <supermop> i can get either here in chinatown 20:26:54 <dada_> you can eat the chicken's feet too 20:26:56 <dada_> never had it though 20:27:46 <andythenorth> frosch123: I dare you to remove subtypes ;) 20:27:56 <andythenorth> see what happens 20:28:25 <andythenorth> it's probably wise that andythenorth has no openttd commit rights 20:28:53 <frosch123> yeah, it already scared me that you got voice :p 20:29:29 <frosch123> i expected you would be able to flood #openttd, dev and devzone :) 20:30:55 <frosch123> i don't get the foot-in-face method 20:32:18 <frosch123> they say foot in face causes less harm than door in face though :) 20:32:55 <andythenorth> I don't want to test that :P 20:33:47 <frosch123> are there any rumours about the world ending when the 113th element spawns? 20:34:05 <andythenorth> probably 20:34:16 <andythenorth> there are rumours about world ending for so many things :P 20:34:24 <andythenorth> individually each one makes me quite worried 20:34:37 <andythenorth> taken together, worrying seems quite silly :P 20:34:51 <supermop> world ends when nml supports bridges 20:35:10 <frosch123> andythenorth: it would have the advantage that we no longer have to care about subtypes 20:35:24 <andythenorth> or autorefit 20:35:36 <andythenorth> and all tickets would be closed by default 20:35:44 <andythenorth> or at least "won't fix" 20:43:56 * andythenorth bed 20:43:57 <andythenorth> bye 20:43:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:44:55 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has joined #openttd 20:45:20 <Terkhen> good night 20:58:52 <frosch123> night 20:58:56 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4882.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:24 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has quit [Quit: [RESET]] 21:08:26 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has joined #openttd 21:08:42 *** keoz [~keikoz@159.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: keoz] 21:09:20 *** Beardie [~chatzilla@cpc8-pres13-2-0-cust118.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:13:37 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:17:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AFC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:38 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 21:29:50 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:30:52 *** Beardie [~chatzilla@cpc8-pres13-2-0-cust118.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 21:39:03 *** jack [~jack@c-71-236-228-67.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:42:23 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:47:10 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:13 *** Jake_ [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:47:15 *** Jake_ is now known as Jake 21:49:49 *** argoneus [~argoneus@ip-78-102-118-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:53:29 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:2dae:8fbf:fab2:3309] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:16 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:2dae:8fbf:fab2:3309] has joined #openttd 21:54:19 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 21:54:30 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:52 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 22:07:53 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-155-169-162.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:11:58 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 22:17:07 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:21:42 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 22:35:48 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-154-201.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:43:31 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:34 *** Jake_ [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 22:43:36 *** Jake_ is now known as Jake 22:54:59 *** KnogleAFK [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 22:54:59 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:07:21 *** jack [~jack@c-71-236-228-67.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:21:42 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:30:49 *** devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit []