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00:10:00 *** DDR [~kvirc@184.71.170.250] has joined #openttd 00:13:31 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 00:32:27 <Eddi|zuHause> http://devnull-as-a-service.com/home/ 00:35:13 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:37:57 <frosch123> there are already several /dev/random services 00:38:06 *** Japa [~Japa@117.214.60.71] has joined #openttd 00:38:54 <Wolf01> 'night 00:38:59 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:40:29 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 00:42:16 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.167] has joined #openttd 00:44:46 <frosch123> night 00:44:49 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00b091.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 00:45:48 *** DDR [~kvirc@184.71.170.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:49:12 *** Japa [~Japa@117.214.60.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:00:27 *** DDR [~kvirc@184.71.170.250] has joined #openttd 01:03:58 *** DDR [~kvirc@184.71.170.250] has quit [] 01:04:21 *** DDR [~kvirc@184.71.170.250] has joined #openttd 01:07:45 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:21 *** roadt_ [~roadt@36.7.145.39] has joined #openttd 01:12:25 *** DDR [~kvirc@184.71.170.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:22:50 *** treaki_ [6629e240d4@p4FF4A436.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 01:30:20 *** treaki__ [b0eee94a87@p4FF4BCB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:36:43 *** Japa [~Japa@112.79.36.47] has joined #openttd 01:54:46 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1910F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:41 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p57BD51B6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 02:02:43 *** sturmi [~Sturmi@pD9EB26C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 02:04:37 *** TrueBrain_ [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 02:06:55 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD51B6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:07:01 *** LordAro [~LordAro@sns61-83.york.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:07:42 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:08:15 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:10:56 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 02:32:38 *** mikegrb [~michael@mikegrb.netop.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 600 seconds] 03:08:43 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 03:21:21 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.214.60.71] has joined #openttd 03:23:21 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:28:07 *** mikegrb [~michael@mikegrb.netop.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 03:28:53 *** Japa [~Japa@112.79.36.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:30:55 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.214.60.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:12:21 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:12:43 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 04:29:34 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.167] has quit [] 04:30:21 *** JGR_ [~JGR@host81-129-111-99.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 04:30:47 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.167] has joined #openttd 04:31:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6B541.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:33:05 *** JGR [~JGR@host31-51-148-66.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:13:05 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:25:01 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:25:23 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 05:31:03 *** namad7 [aaaaa@pool-173-75-27-114.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:31:19 *** namad7 [~aaaaa@pool-173-75-27-114.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 05:37:22 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 05:45:53 *** kero [~keikoz@202.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: kero] 06:13:56 <LeandroL> hello all 06:14:11 <LeandroL> what helicopter can i use to transport oil from an oil rig to a refinery? 06:14:15 <LeandroL> and do i have to refit it? 06:14:28 <Supercheese> You should not use a helicopter, use tanker ships 06:20:10 *** roadt_ [~roadt@36.7.145.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:29:30 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.167] has quit [] 06:33:04 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.167] has joined #openttd 06:46:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD51B6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 06:46:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC662E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:59:08 *** Vadtec_ [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has joined #openttd 07:00:20 *** Speedy` [~speedy@the.wrong.domain.name] has joined #openttd 07:00:37 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@87.114.218.56] has joined #openttd 07:00:58 *** ivan` [~ivan`@000130ca.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:00:58 *** mindlesstux_ [~mindlestu@raspberrypi.mindlesstux.com] has joined #openttd 07:01:02 *** Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> weber.oftc.net quits: Prof_Frink, Xaroth|Work, mindlesstux, Vadtec, Speedy, imachine_ 07:01:02 *** Vadtec_ is now known as Vadtec 07:01:02 *** Speedy` is now known as Speedy 07:01:03 *** mindlesstux_ is now known as mindlesstux 07:01:07 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 07:01:21 *** Xaroth|Work [~XarothAtW@194.1.204.204] has joined #openttd 07:03:08 *** imachine [~imachine@2a00:dcc0:eda:3754:216:3cff:fe01:8973] has joined #openttd 07:08:09 *** ivan` [~ivan`@000130ca.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 07:15:02 *** Speedy` [~speedy@the.wrong.domain.name] has joined #openttd 07:15:02 *** Speedy [~speedy@the.wrong.domain.name] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:15:12 *** Speedy` is now known as Speedy 07:17:54 *** Pecio [~fgh@acdi101.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 07:18:58 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.167] has quit [] 07:18:58 *** Speedy [~speedy@the.wrong.domain.name] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:27:23 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.167] has joined #openttd 07:33:22 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-113-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 07:39:49 <LeandroL> Supercheese: how about airports that accept resources such as oil, iron ore, etc. 07:40:23 <LeandroL> those airports aren't adjacent to any other stations, i.e. they're just airports 07:40:51 <LeandroL> why do they display for example iron ore in their 'accepts' list? 07:41:25 <LeandroL> is it because you could potentially accept such resources if you join the airport to a station of some other kind? 07:41:41 <LeandroL> or is it actually possible to transport such resources with airborne vehicles? 07:41:55 <V453000> is if the aircraft set allows it 07:41:58 <V453000> e.g. av8 07:42:11 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.167] has quit [] 07:46:59 <Supercheese> Default airplanes should be refittable to most anything 07:47:10 <V453000> not quite 07:47:14 <Supercheese> But they are not suitable to transport large amounts of bulk freight 07:47:38 * Supercheese has not played with default vehicles in ages 07:47:47 <Supercheese> Perhaps they aren't refittable to anything 07:48:20 <Supercheese> or rather, all things 08:11:10 *** LordAro [~LordAro@sns61-83.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 08:12:26 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 08:16:37 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-113-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 08:36:58 <LeandroL> thanks for the tips 08:37:04 <LeandroL> ok another question 08:37:15 <LeandroL> i have 4 cities in a 128x64 map 08:37:32 <LeandroL> all my cities are growing every 4 days 08:37:48 <LeandroL> and yet, the world population is stuck at around 37,000 08:37:55 <LeandroL> and has been this way for the last 20 years 08:38:08 <LeandroL> and there's still plenty of space to grow all my cities 08:38:26 <LeandroL> any idea why this is happening and how to fix it? 08:38:45 <Supercheese> Make sure you minimize dead end roads, those can hurt house development 08:38:45 <LeandroL> i'd like to eventually have most of my map covered with houses/infrastructure 08:39:07 <Supercheese> http://wiki.openttd.org/Talk:Towns 08:39:17 <Supercheese> http://wiki.openttd.org/Towns#Tips_for_Town_Growth 08:39:28 <V453000> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/User:Mfb/Towns 08:39:37 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@zeroshell2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 08:39:42 <Supercheese> Even better 08:40:01 <V453000> ikr :P 08:41:26 <NGC3982> Morning. 08:46:57 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:46:58 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B82A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:49:54 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 08:51:39 <juzza1> 08:51 < LeandroL> is it because you could potentially accept such resources if you join the airport to a station of some other kind? 08:51:43 <juzza1> yes 08:52:31 <juzza1> the game doesn't check if there actually is a vehicle type (for example, a plane) for that station that can pick up the goods 08:56:24 <LeandroL> thanks juzza1 09:00:16 *** Nekrodes [~Nekrodes@LNantes-156-76-16-40.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:01:18 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.142.5] has joined #openttd 09:26:44 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:28:36 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.142.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:36:43 *** zeknurn` [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 09:36:52 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@zeroshell2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:38:31 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:39:25 *** montalvo [~montalvo@papc-ma276.st-andrews.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 09:47:14 *** ipewannasay [~eleanor.g@114.79.2.245] has joined #openttd 09:47:43 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@zeroshell2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 09:48:26 <ipewannasay> hello 09:48:42 *** zeknurn` [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:49:46 <ipewannasay> guys, i want to ask about btpro.nl, is the site down or something? 09:57:12 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 09:59:57 <Xaroth|Work> I doubt btpro is in any way, shape or form supported by openttd 10:00:06 <Xaroth|Work> so you should really ask them 10:00:06 <V453000> :D point 10:01:04 <Xaroth|Work> o/ V453000 10:01:55 <ipewannasay> oh 10:02:43 <ipewannasay> i thought you know something as it is one of the most multiplayer server :D 10:03:13 <ipewannasay> thanks anyway 10:04:19 <planetmaker> moin 10:05:16 <V453000> hi Xaroth 10:05:21 <planetmaker> ipewannasay, when did you last play on that server? I might be wrong, but I thought it's out-of-service for quite some time? 10:05:50 <planetmaker> but as said, contacting their admin staff is the right way, I'd say :-) 10:06:03 <ipewannasay> just got back yesterday after 1 year gone 10:06:04 <ipewannasay> XD 10:10:11 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.96.127.10] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:22:09 <planetmaker> ipewannasay, did you look at all at their website? 10:25:40 <planetmaker> (obviously I was wrong with it being down and mixed up server names) 10:29:05 <ipewannasay> sorry was afk :D 10:29:33 <ipewannasay> i can't open the whole website 10:40:46 <planetmaker> that's your end then, not the server 10:41:20 <planetmaker> I could browse their website just fine half an hour ago 10:41:56 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 10:44:16 <peter1138> Actually no, I had a look but it was down. 10:44:38 <Xaroth|Work> works here 10:44:39 *** montalvo [~montalvo@papc-ma276.st-andrews.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:44:49 <peter1138> Yes, it is working now. 10:46:03 <V453000> I didnt look but its fine 10:49:18 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 10:55:00 <ipewannasay> still not working for me haha 10:55:20 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:55:20 <ipewannasay> gotta check the proxy setting 10:55:24 <ipewannasay> thanks guy :D 11:00:54 *** ipe [~eleanor.g@114.79.0.137] has joined #openttd 11:03:28 *** ipe [~eleanor.g@114.79.0.137] has quit [] 11:07:38 *** ipewannasay [~eleanor.g@114.79.2.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:26:20 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@00013104.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 11:26:36 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@00013104.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:31:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B82A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36:38 *** Nekrodes 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[~johekr@p5DC662E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 13:27:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC662E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:28:47 *** Nekrodes [~Nekrodes@LNantes-156-76-16-40.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 13:33:15 *** Nekrodes_ [~Nekrodes@LNantes-156-76-16-40.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:35:37 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> resistance.oftc.net quits: tparker, eQualizer, Ttech, XeryusTC, Extrems, Eddi|zuHause, @Belugas, Xaroth, Stimrol_, Xaroth|Work, (+36 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 13:47:06 *** Netsplit over, joins: Nekrodes, Eddi|zuHause, HerzogDeXtEr, Supercheese, Japa, ivan`, sla_ro|master, yorick, Devroush, Pecio (+36 more) 13:48:01 *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ 14:05:20 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B82A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:12:24 *** Japa [~Japa@112.79.36.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:20:56 <Belugas> hello 14:25:02 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:38:50 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B82A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:29 *** Hendrick [~Hendrick@212.93.100.26] has joined #openttd 14:48:08 *** Pecio [~fgh@acdi101.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #openttd [] 14:51:52 *** Nekrodes_ [~Nekrodes@LNantes-156-76-16-40.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:58:15 *** Nekrodes [~Nekrodes@LNantes-156-76-16-40.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:05:50 *** egyptian [~OIRJH83HG@41.46.205.77] has joined #openttd 15:09:15 *** egyptian [~OIRJH83HG@41.46.205.77] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:51 *** Jomann [~abchirk@g231209190.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 15:13:47 *** Ristovski [~rafael@31.11.106.87] has joined #openttd 15:17:24 *** bn8735ghb [~kuyhbg879@41.46.205.77] has joined #openttd 15:17:40 <bn8735ghb> Do usa&Israel use chat &facebook 2 spy?!?!?!? 15:17:42 <bn8735ghb> Do they record &analyse everything we type?!?!?!? 15:17:42 <bn8735ghb> Do usa&israel use chat&social communicationprog(facebook&twitter) to collect informations,,,,can we call that spying!!!! 15:17:44 <bn8735ghb> Ù٠تستخد٠ا٠رÙÙاÙاسر؊Ù٠اÙ؎ات ÙاÙÙÙس ØšÙÙ ÙÙتجسس!Ø!Ø!Ø!Ø!Ø!Ø! 15:17:44 <bn8735ghb> Do usa&Israel use chat &facebook 2 spy?!?!?!? 15:17:46 <bn8735ghb> Do they record &analyse everything we type?!?!?!? 15:17:46 <bn8735ghb> Do usa&israel use chat&social communicationprog(facebook&twitter) to collect informations,,,,can we call that spying!!!! 15:17:48 <bn8735ghb> Ù٠تستخد٠ا٠رÙÙاÙاسر؊Ù٠اÙ؎ات ÙاÙÙÙس ØšÙÙ ÙÙتجسس!Ø!Ø!Ø!Ø!Ø!Ø! 15:17:48 <bn8735ghb> Do usa&Israel use chat &facebook 2 spy?!?!?!? 15:17:50 <bn8735ghb> Do they record &analyse everything we type?!?!?!? 15:17:50 <bn8735ghb> Do usa&israel use chat&social communicationprog(facebook&twitter) to collect informations,,,,can we call that spying!!!! 15:17:52 <bn8735ghb> Ù٠تستخد٠ا٠رÙÙاÙاسر؊Ù٠اÙ؎ات ÙاÙÙÙس ØšÙÙ ÙÙتجسس!Ø!Ø!Ø!Ø!Ø!Ø! 15:17:52 <bn8735ghb> Egyptian moslem 15:17:54 *** bn8735ghb [~kuyhbg879@41.46.205.77] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:17:59 *** abchirk_ [~abchirk@g229118160.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:18:01 *** bn8735ghb [~kuyhbg879@41.46.205.77] has joined #openttd 15:18:06 <frosch123> @kban bn8735ghb 15:18:07 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!~kuyhbg879@41.46.205.77] by DorpsGek 15:18:07 *** bn8735ghb was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [frosch123] 15:22:46 <V453000> lol 15:31:11 <LordAro> yes, probably 15:31:13 <LordAro> :p 16:14:40 *** Jomann [~abchirk@g231209190.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:17:35 *** bon [~461a04d4@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 16:17:51 *** andythenorth [~andytheno@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 16:17:54 *** andythenorth [~andytheno@194.168.185.226] has quit [] 16:22:59 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:36 *** Japa [~Japa@117.214.7.172] has joined #openttd 16:26:42 *** Hendrick [~Hendrick@212.93.100.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:33:36 *** Japa [~Japa@117.214.7.172] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:37:29 *** Japa [~Japa@112.79.36.78] has joined #openttd 16:47:36 <LordAro> so i have to write an essay on a "classic text" in CS, any ideas? 16:47:44 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:48:04 <frosch123> what's a classic text? 16:48:47 <LordAro> a famous, or ground breaking paper 16:48:57 <LordAro> something "well known" 16:49:12 <frosch123> any specific area of cs? 16:49:36 <frosch123> donald e knuth is classic by definition 16:49:50 <LordAro> no specific area 16:50:07 <LordAro> i'm currently looking at this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_important_publications_in_computer_science :L 16:59:13 <Eddi|zuHause> knuth, dijkstra, ... 16:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause> dijkstra's rant on "GOTO" is probably a "classic text" :) 17:02:09 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:02:12 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:02:46 <Alberth> moin 17:04:27 <frosch123> planetmaker: which vm is the rigth one to test fs#5793 ? 17:05:09 <frosch123> oh, there are more comments in flyspray 17:05:18 <Taede> the new ps 17:05:56 <frosch123> i guess that backtrace is sufficient 17:06:16 <Taede> :) 17:06:32 <frosch123> it also explains why reproducting it is luck :) 17:06:58 <frosch123> it depends on the random order your linker assmebles the ottd binary 17:07:47 <Taede> is it random per-machine, or per-compile? 17:08:28 <frosch123> i have no idea in which order the linker processes the object files 17:09:27 <frosch123> the effect depends on the initialisation order of global variables 17:09:36 <frosch123> s/global/static/ or whatever 17:10:22 <Taede> sounds random enough 17:11:55 *** bon [~461a04d4@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 17:12:56 *** Nekrodes_ [~Nekrodes@LNantes-156-76-16-40.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:39 <frosch123> Taede: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2761/ <- can you please try that one? 17:20:18 *** moki [~moki@rstk-4d061bee.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:23:28 *** montalvo [~montalvo@papc-ma276.st-andrews.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 17:23:59 *** montalvo is now known as montalBOOO 17:25:05 <Taede> trying now 17:27:41 <Taede> seems to fail as expected 17:27:46 <Taede> (as in, no more crashes) 17:28:03 <planetmaker> oi, nice :-) 17:28:30 <frosch123> ok, let's wait for fonsinchen, whether there is something critically skipped with that patch :) 17:32:56 *** DDR [~kvirc@184.71.170.250] has joined #openttd 17:36:14 *** alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 17:36:32 *** alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has quit [] 17:36:45 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@zeroshell2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:37:16 *** DDR 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*** Ristovski [~rafael@31.11.106.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:34:12 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:34:15 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:49:28 *** Jomann [~abchirk@g231209190.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:50:35 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:06 *** montalBOOO [~montalvo@papc-ma276.st-andrews.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 19:15:28 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:35:16 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25933 trunk/src/lang/swedish.txt (2013-10-31 18:45:10 UTC) 19:35:17 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 19:35:18 <DorpsGek> swedish - 13 changes by Joel_A 19:35:47 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 19:47:25 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:47:28 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 19:49:24 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 19:53:28 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-42-215.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:01:40 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 20:12:29 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host86-186-141-34.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:18:17 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-113-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 20:20:39 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:20:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:21:39 *** moki [~moki@rstk-4d061bee.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #openttd [] 20:53:28 <andythenorth> so I wasn't trolling about tech levels 21:01:16 <frosch123> ask V, he might do it for you then 21:02:10 <andythenorth> we'd need a newgrf spec addition? 21:02:27 <andythenorth> and a patch to the core game :P 21:02:45 <planetmaker> first it needs be clear what and how :-) 21:03:45 <andythenorth> of course :) 21:04:02 <andythenorth> so I think it's per company 21:04:04 <andythenorth> a single tech level 21:04:21 <andythenorth> no fine-grained 'train tech level', 'industry tech level' etc 21:05:57 <frosch123> you mean something like "date for engines"? 21:06:31 <frosch123> you could even solve daylength with that then, if people don't mind that diesel is invented in 2100 21:07:04 <andythenorth> yes 21:07:14 <andythenorth> oh you missed that discussion? o_O 21:07:19 <andythenorth> solves daylength 21:07:33 <frosch123> well, sometimes it is better to miss a discussion 21:07:42 <andythenorth> allows comparison across newgrfs when playing NoCarGoal type GS :) 21:07:46 <andythenorth> allows GS to control progression 21:08:06 <andythenorth> solved something else as well, I forget 21:08:08 <andythenorth> logs know :P 21:08:47 *** treaki [8ebeecad14@p4FDF6B07.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:08:51 <andythenorth> oh here http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/date/2013-10-29?page=3 21:09:24 <andythenorth> oh it also solves the silly problems with randomised vehicle intro dates 21:13:40 <andythenorth> vehicles could be introduced and expired against a tech level 21:13:48 <andythenorth> so expiry could be reliable 21:13:55 <fonsinchen> hi 21:14:00 <andythenorth> and vehicles could depend on other vehicles for availability 21:16:16 <Alberth> hi fonsinchen 21:17:46 <fonsinchen> frosch123: The patch looks good. 21:17:49 <fonsinchen> Thanks 21:18:12 <Alberth> fonsinchen: I was wondering about the following: 1. Patch GetVia to break when returning 0. 2. Start a new game, and build a further unused station as the first action 21:18:55 <Alberth> would that be useful to try? 21:19:18 <fonsinchen> About that game where you exhibited the bug with cargo to station 0? 21:19:40 <Alberth> yes, but there it would not work, as I use station 0 21:19:59 <fonsinchen> What are you trying to achieve? 21:20:16 <Alberth> catching GetVia in the act :) 21:21:01 <fonsinchen> Oh, I wouldn't worry too much about that bug from may. There were several other bugs in the mean time which might have had something to do with it 21:21:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25934 trunk/src/linkgraph/linkgraphjob.cpp (2013-10-31 20:31:10 UTC) 21:21:16 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5793]: Do not access items from other pools in pool item destructors during pool cleaning. 21:21:25 <fonsinchen> Remember the off-by-one error? That may also produce a 0 if the only flow is 1. 21:21:49 <Alberth> ok, was just pondering about it 21:26:44 <andythenorth> hmm 21:27:12 <andythenorth> so if I wanted a GS to be able to limit route construction (number of track pieces laid etc), that is already possible? 21:28:39 <frosch123> currently you can only "limit" by charging money 21:29:03 <frosch123> well, actually you could also bulldoze 21:29:12 <andythenorth> ok, so alongside a tech level (which I think would be uncontroversial)... 21:29:19 <andythenorth> ...I am wondering about a materials level 21:29:23 <andythenorth> which would be controversial :P 21:29:56 <frosch123> https://secure.openttd.org/wiki/Frosch/GS_Area_Control <- would that cover it? 21:30:10 * andythenorth reads 21:30:10 <frosch123> it does not count pieces of track or similar 21:30:14 <frosch123> but areas 21:30:47 <frosch123> status of that page is btw. that i cannot think of a gs idea that would interest me to code it :p 21:31:40 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:47 <andythenorth> frosch123: regions would achieve same idea as material count, different methods 21:32:16 <andythenorth> I was thinking e.g. town awards 500 tiles of track/road per year for good service 21:32:26 <andythenorth> regions might have same gameplay result 21:33:08 <andythenorth> I have been playing casual games with a lot of 'tinker with stuff, unlock levels and items' play 21:33:08 <frosch123> the idea of regions was that you can define map areas, assign various properties to it, and reference it in story book and goals 21:33:29 <andythenorth> yeah, I like them 21:33:40 <andythenorth> just don't have a GS idea I'm burning to make 21:33:43 <fonsinchen> frosch123: Actually, at the point where it crashes, the linkgraphjob destructor only accesses its own data. So, even though the fix is correct, it doesn't fix the actual problem ... or am I missing anything? 21:33:59 <frosch123> it shall also be deterministic 21:35:50 <frosch123> fonsinchen: where are the nodes stored? 21:35:55 <fonsinchen> In fact the real problem is that the number of nodes in the linkgraph differs from the number of nodes in the linkgraphjob 21:35:59 <fonsinchen> In two places 21:36:23 <fonsinchen> job->link_graph.nodes 21:36:29 <fonsinchen> job->nodes 21:36:55 <frosch123> i thought the problem is that the linkgraph is freed before the linkgraphjob 21:37:58 <fonsinchen> No, the problem is that LinkGraphJob::Init() may not have been called yet 21:38:49 <frosch123> can you adjust my comment in ~LinkGraphJob then? 21:39:02 <fonsinchen> We can only be sure that the numbers match if that is the case, so we might need a stricter criterion for stopping the constructor there. I'll check that. 21:39:17 <fonsinchen> *destructor 21:40:29 <frosch123> andythenorth: anyway, i don't like adding a random set of gs restrictions. i don't want gs to make the same mistake as newgrf, and adding random callbacks which affect stuf intranslaprently, causing desync trouble, ai trouble and user interface trouble :) 21:40:47 <andythenorth> he 21:40:49 <andythenorth> +1 :) 21:41:15 <andythenorth> I don't think tech level is a restriction btw 21:41:18 <frosch123> so, no callbacks, or events, just static properties 21:41:27 <frosch123> which a gs can assign, and other can read without side effects 21:44:10 <andythenorth> so put material count aside, because it would mean a crapload of quite intense changes to construction 21:44:23 <andythenorth> but tech level would be an int 0-(some large value) 21:44:34 <andythenorth> normalised against the default temperate game 21:44:55 <andythenorth> and we'd patch ottd to incremement tech level monthly by default (GS could modify) 21:44:57 <frosch123> i think of tech-level as an actual date 21:45:11 <andythenorth> and we'd patch vehicle availability to look at tech level, not date 21:45:20 <andythenorth> frosch123: one idea was simply to hide date :P 21:45:35 <frosch123> well, you need to dispaly something in the purchase list :p 21:45:46 <andythenorth> 'need' is a strong word :) 21:46:03 <frosch123> i assume you do not want to break the whole game 21:46:13 <frosch123> like economy window, graphs, news, ... 21:46:35 <andythenorth> not sure 21:46:40 <andythenorth> maybe I do want to break it all :) 21:46:42 <frosch123> you might also need to incorporate vehicle preview 21:47:10 <frosch123> like disabling the default preview, and instead use gs to assign previews to companies 21:47:24 <andythenorth> yup, that would be a smart move 21:47:25 <frosch123> gs can ask questions as well anyway 21:47:35 <frosch123> though not with the fance engine picture :p 21:47:40 <andythenorth> so I didn't think this was a quick patch 21:47:46 <andythenorth> but it might be a worthwhile one 21:48:00 <andythenorth> I think it's more interesting than most other ponies 21:48:23 <frosch123> i still have no seen an actual concept for a gs using it :p 21:49:06 <andythenorth> cart, horse 21:49:10 <andythenorth> chicken, egg 21:49:10 <andythenorth> etc 21:49:21 *** Hendrick [~Hendrick@212.93.100.26] has joined #openttd 21:50:11 <frosch123> you do need need an egg to make a concept of a chicken 21:50:21 <frosch123> you only need a pencil 21:50:30 <andythenorth> it's a perennial debate :) 21:51:41 <andythenorth> ok, so item (1), GS that simply manages tech level to allow for longer gaps between vehicle introductions - an alternative way to solve what most people think daylength is for 21:52:25 <andythenorth> item (2) a GS where you solve mini-challenges (deliver x amount cargo, please this town, buy 10 of engine ABC) - and the goal is solely to get tech level to ${some value} 21:54:17 <andythenorth> item (3) 'constant decline', your tech level will fall constantly, unless you meet certain goals. If you fail, you quickly fall into a death spiral (hmm, kind of Dwarf Fortress) 21:54:47 <fonsinchen> The real problem is that AfterLoadLinkGraphs may not be called from AfterLoadGame. Thus the threads aren't started and the jobs aren't initialized. Incidentally that also triggers a pool clean which resolves the situation 21:54:50 <andythenorth> item (4) GS where donating to OTTD increases your tech level :P 21:54:57 <fonsinchen> But maybe we shouldn't rely on that ... 21:55:42 <andythenorth> note to GS authors: we need a static property 'datetime of last donation' and 'amount of last donation' and 'total donated' 21:55:43 <andythenorth> :P 22:02:22 <frosch123> andythenorth: decreasing tech level is hard 22:02:50 <andythenorth> because vehicles have to disappear? 22:02:52 <frosch123> what would it do? retire new engines, reintroduced already retired ones? 22:02:58 <andythenorth> yes :) 22:03:03 <andythenorth> but I appreciate the probelm 22:03:08 <andythenorth> problem * 22:03:09 *** Zuu [~Zuu@gateway.sdr.org] has joined #openttd 22:03:09 <frosch123> it's hard because of the reintroduction/retirement 22:03:19 <andythenorth> ok 22:03:26 <andythenorth> so no dwarf fortress GS :P 22:08:07 <Zuu> I still think a Ticket to Ride inspired GS would be interesting. Giving the user a selection of quests, picking a few and if you complete them you gain points but if you didn't you lose points instead. 22:08:24 <frosch123> oh, zuu! 22:08:34 <Zuu> Hello 22:08:52 <Zuu> I noticed an interesting discussion on the logs :-) 22:08:53 <frosch123> Zuu: i added a patch to fs#5786, maybe you want to comment on the api :) 22:09:55 <Zuu> Didn't you commit the patch attached there? 22:10:12 <frosch123> no 22:10:20 <frosch123> i committed a fix 22:10:28 <Zuu> ah ok 22:10:29 <frosch123> there is stil an api extension 22:10:33 <frosch123> but actually also an api change 22:10:48 <frosch123> currently passing 0 to SetGrowthRate resets it to non-custom 22:10:56 <frosch123> but that is neither documented not unintuitive 22:11:18 <frosch123> so, i think of removing that 0 meaning, and add a different constant insterad 22:11:24 <Zuu> Is it possible with a GS wrapper in compat.nut to emulate the old behaviour? 22:11:25 <frosch123> while "0" would mean as fast as possible 22:12:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6A6DF.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 22:12:03 <frosch123> well, yes, it would be possible to retain the behaviour with compat.nut. but i actually think it's rather a bug 22:12:27 <Zuu> Given the many Town growth GS that we have, that hidden feature may be in use. 22:12:34 <frosch123> i don't think anyone uses it, but instead it is quite likely that someone uses a formular to compute a vaule and passes 0 without the intention to do what it does 22:13:07 <frosch123> i don't think any town growth gs wants to reset to normal behavior tbh :p 22:14:01 <Zuu> NAI have a in-game setting to do that. It follows the API documentation that you changed on how to make OpenTTD take back control over the towns. 22:14:46 <frosch123> what documentation? 22:14:49 <Zuu> IIRC, it removes all restrictions, set an advanced setting and then OpenTTD will from time to time manage towns and make town growth return to normal. 22:15:11 <frosch123> ah, that one, 22:15:22 <frosch123> well, i have no idea what that documentation meant 22:15:35 <frosch123> there is no trace in ottd which would do something remotely similar 22:16:51 <Zuu> It did seem to work when I tested the On/Off-button in NAI, but it may be that some of the steps that I do based on that documentation are not needed. 22:17:43 <frosch123> well, i'll take a look at nai 22:18:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B541.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:21:06 <Zuu> Hmm, NAI do use SetGrowthRate(id, 0), but with a comment that it is made on the purpose of setting growth to 0. 22:21:33 <frosch123> haha :p 22:21:58 <Zuu> town.nut:562 22:23:03 <frosch123> GSTown.SetGrowthRate(this.id, 365 * 1000); // grow every 1000 years <- 365000 is fairly out of range 22:23:03 <Zuu> Turning off NAI is initiated in main.nut:274 22:23:19 <frosch123> 16000 is max or so 22:24:47 <frosch123> ok, but apparantly NAI sets it to 0 with then intention to reset it 22:24:52 <frosch123> and give control back to ottd 22:25:30 <Zuu> So if OpenTTD takes back control too early, it is not a big problem here. 22:26:06 <Zuu> Your change will not break it as the code was written with the assumption that it works the way it will work after your patch is applied. 22:28:29 <frosch123> hu? 22:28:40 <frosch123> my patch removes the behaviour for "0" 22:28:43 <frosch123> so it breaks nai 22:28:55 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:29:26 <Zuu> hmm, oh, that line of mine that set it to 0, should set it to a large number. Its possible that I made a logic error there. 22:29:35 <Zuu> At least from how I read the comment. 22:30:18 <Zuu> It actually should set it to a large number and not zero. 22:30:20 <frosch123> yeah, the comment is weird 22:30:27 <frosch123> but i think the code does what it should :p 22:30:33 <Zuu> Yep 22:31:08 <frosch123> but my patch also breaks the 365000 22:31:08 <Zuu> So by mistake I did use a feature I didn't know exist :-) 22:31:27 <frosch123> previously the api function used a uint16, so 365000 was just casted 22:31:32 <frosch123> now the command would fail 22:31:56 <frosch123> so, how much of nai shall i break? :p 22:32:01 <Zuu> The 365000 thing is something that I'll have to fix if it is an overflow. 22:32:20 <frosch123> @calc 365000 & 65535 22:32:20 <DorpsGek> frosch123: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number. 22:32:25 <frosch123> @calc 365000 and 65535 22:32:25 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 65535 22:32:33 <frosch123> @base 10 16 365000 22:32:33 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 591C8 22:32:40 <frosch123> @base 16 10 91C8 22:32:40 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 37320 22:32:51 <Zuu> Well, I can easily upload a new NAI. 22:32:51 <frosch123> hmm, it should also have failed before 22:33:24 <frosch123> well, so, add the 0 thingie to compat.nut then? 22:34:13 <Zuu> Well, to use that code/feature that pass 365000, you need to toggle a setting in the GS and then place a sign on the town tile with a text documented in the readme. Eg. not many users will do this by mistake when just playing around. 22:35:16 <Zuu> The 0-thingie to compat.nut may be good. I can update NAI, but I don't know which other GSes that may be affected too. 22:42:46 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 22:45:40 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host86-186-141-34.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 22:50:54 <andythenorth> bye 22:50:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:51:07 *** alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:03 *** lugo [lugo@apple.bnc4free.com] has joined #openttd 22:59:25 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 23:01:20 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:08:22 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 23:23:26 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-113-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 23:25:12 *** Japa [~Japa@112.79.36.104] has joined #openttd 23:27:26 <planetmaker> g'night 23:31:27 *** Zuu [~Zuu@gateway.sdr.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:40:34 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.214.7.172] has joined #openttd 23:42:52 *** adf89 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 23:44:26 *** Japa__ [~Japa@112.79.36.104] has joined #openttd 23:45:35 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:47:49 *** Japa [~Japa@112.79.36.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:48:59 *** DDR [~kvirc@184.71.170.250] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 23:50:59 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.214.7.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]