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00:03:08 *** joho^_^ [~joho@takamachi.nanoha.se] has joined #openttd 00:04:53 *** joho [~joho@takamachi.nanoha.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:05:47 <Supercheese> Hope the devzone compiles my changeset 00:05:54 <Supercheese> ah crap 00:06:31 <Supercheese> forgot the sprite files 00:10:50 <Supercheese> excellent 00:16:10 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 00:17:48 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 00:44:43 *** guru3_ [~guru3@90-224-75-164-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 00:44:43 *** guru3 [~guru3@000128ea.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:49:44 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 02:02:47 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 02:24:20 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d088be1.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 02:31:18 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d0835fb.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:37:45 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.227.148] has joined #openttd 02:50:47 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 02:51:26 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:28:34 *** Skippern [~Skippern@91.188.7.108] has joined #openttd 03:39:30 *** Skippern [~Skippern@91.188.7.108] has left #openttd [Leaving...] 03:56:49 *** Pulec [~pulec@2a01:4f8:162:732f:468::6298] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17:43 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:51:20 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.227.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DA67C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DAB35.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:10:58 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.227.148] has joined #openttd 05:12:06 *** Sirenia [~sirenia@93.186.164.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:22:55 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:24:40 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 06:32:08 *** roidal [~roland@cm140-210.liwest.at] has joined #openttd 07:00:50 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 07:27:11 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Quit: :q!] 07:58:47 *** roidal [~roland@cm140-210.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2] 08:32:22 *** Nemoder [~quassel@63.142.210.189] has joined #openttd 08:33:59 <Nemoder> I think I found a bug, I had just enough money to buy a train depot but only enough for one of the rail connections, after I bought the 2nd track I got a desync 08:35:04 <Nemoder> when I reconnected the train on the track was much farther along, as if the 2nd track had always been there 08:39:32 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@71.12.36.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:44:22 *** Sirenia [~sirenia@93.186.164.51] has joined #openttd 08:44:55 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@71.12.36.79] has joined #openttd 08:47:42 *** supermop_ [~supermop@d210-49-164-110.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:50:27 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.227.148] has quit [Quit: If I go there will be trouble, if I stay it will be double. [www.adiirc.com]] 09:03:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Nemoder: bugs like this are almost impossible to fix without a way to reproduce them quickly 09:04:26 <Nemoder> understandable 09:06:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Nemoder: the cause for a desync was likely way before it was noticed 09:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Nemoder: so the desync wasn't related to building the depot at all 09:07:10 <Nemoder> possibly, but I was the only one connected and hadn't been doing anything else for quite some time 09:08:46 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:09:14 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust13.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 09:09:24 <Nemoder> I'd try to reproduce it but now I'm busy trying to build an empire :P 09:09:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. that makes things worse. because the less you do, the longer the desync will stay undetected 09:10:26 <Eddi|zuHause> at some point, the desync resulted in the server thinking you have more money than your client did, so the server built the additional rail right away, while your client didn't 09:10:43 <Nemoder> ya that makes sense 09:20:34 <Supercheese> good night 09:23:27 <planetmaker> Nemoder, a desync bug needs action by the server administrator. They need to enable desync debugging on the machine, load a savegame and then wait till it was reproduced by a player 09:24:25 <Nemoder> It's my server, but this was the first desync I've ever had on it. perhaps one of the mods isn't as happy with the new 1.5.1 09:24:28 <planetmaker> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6331 <-- this is a well-reported desync. And unfortunately with anything less, it's near-to-impossible to find and fix it 09:25:04 <planetmaker> mods? If you use faked revisions clients, then of course desyncs are likely 09:25:26 <planetmaker> we can only debug desyncs when both, server and client were built from the exact same source code 09:25:36 <planetmaker> In all other cases, desyncs are rather expected than not 09:26:03 <Nemoder> an not source mod, just newgrf stuff 09:26:10 <planetmaker> ah, sorry. 09:26:44 <planetmaker> They should not matter. But some NewGRFs maybe use a feature which is needed to trigger it. It's still an OpenTTD bug, though 09:26:46 <Nemoder> but ya, that's why I mentioned it casually here instead of proper bug report :) 09:27:12 <planetmaker> NewGRFs are an officially supported thing. They must not trigger bugs :) 09:27:15 <Nemoder> I'll just keep playing and see if it ever happens again 09:27:29 <planetmaker> Nemoder, if you want to see it fixed, enable desync debugging, if you can 09:27:52 <planetmaker> https://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTDDevBlackBook/Network/Desync_debugging <-- follow these steps 09:28:29 <Nemoder> ya, i'll see if it happens more than once then look into that 09:30:36 <planetmaker> it's worth to dig into it when you saw it once. The more seldom it occurs, the harder to find. And it's not like you can't simply continue to play and try find that desync with desync debugging enabled at the same time 09:31:09 <planetmaker> the only backdraw is that it costs performance on the server side and disk space there. But if nothing is found, simply clean all those savegames and the log file 09:32:12 <planetmaker> and yes, there sadly is really no other way than people who see it to produce the data and give it to us. There's so many variables we are unable to find it ourselves by simply looking and playing 09:32:32 <planetmaker> (and those which we do, are rather quickly fixed, but there's so many NewGRFs and playing styles...) 09:56:29 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has joined #openttd 09:58:22 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 10:07:06 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 10:38:45 <peter1138> me o'clock 10:52:30 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:31 *** LadyHawk- [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 11:22:53 *** LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:22:55 *** LadyHawk- is now known as LadyHawk 11:31:47 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:22 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 11:39:57 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:59:42 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 12:16:23 <supermop_> tried a new ramen place 12:29:27 *** supermop_ [~supermop@d210-49-164-110.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:38:35 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.227.148] has joined #openttd 12:50:40 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 12:52:44 <andythenorth> o/ 13:05:49 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause are the optimum lengths (in n/8 units) for trams in tram stops? 13:06:17 <andythenorth> I want to give trams a significant density advantage (capacity / length) compared to trucks, at the cost of lower speed 13:06:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's a huge difference in efficiency between 1.5 tiles and 2 tiles 13:06:58 <andythenorth> oops, I missed âwhatâ at the start of my question, sorry :| 13:07:03 <planetmaker> andythenorth, 'density' advantage is easiest done by giving it higher capacity. Not necessarily by making them longer. It's independent choices :) 13:07:37 <andythenorth> is 2x the capacity at 2x the length and advantage? 13:07:49 <andythenorth> are the two dimensions orthogonal? 13:07:56 <andythenorth> an / and /s 13:07:58 * andythenorth has typing troubles 13:08:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'd make between 1 and 1.5 tiles, probably 13:08:26 <andythenorth> 1 tile is 16/8? 13:08:30 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 13:08:38 <Eddi|zuHause> shorter than 1 has issues with overtaking at end stations 13:09:07 <Eddi|zuHause> because before the 1st one arrives and marks the platform as occupied, the 2nd one has already chosen a platform 13:09:09 <andythenorth> so 2 units at 8/8 13:09:33 <andythenorth> or 6/8 engine, 5/8 + 5/8 wagons 13:10:02 <Eddi|zuHause> and 2 or longer means you have to increase station size significantly for multiple units loading at the same time 13:10:09 <andythenorth> yeah, thatâs tedious 13:10:22 <andythenorth> the long refit for HEQS trams is annoying in practice 13:10:31 <Eddi|zuHause> this, however is most significant for passenger trams 13:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause> so i'd say 1.5 gives the optimum result 13:10:54 <andythenorth> long trams results in trams that behave like trains w.r.t to blocking, but donât have any signals etc to handle routing proably 13:11:02 <andythenorth> properly * 13:11:09 * andythenorth is going to go away and drink coffee 13:11:35 <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe 1.2 13:11:43 <andythenorth> 24/8 or 20/8 13:12:03 <Eddi|zuHause> 3x6/8 13:13:47 <andythenorth> hmm 13:13:57 <andythenorth> current vehicles are annoyingly 7/8 13:14:14 <andythenorth> but they need redrawing anyway 13:18:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i suppose 3x7/8 would work 13:18:26 <andythenorth> doesnât seem optimum though 13:18:51 <andythenorth> currently only 75t capacity for 21/8 length 13:19:31 <Eddi|zuHause> that depends on how exaggerated your truck capacities are 13:22:53 <andythenorth> approx 200% of RL 13:23:03 <andythenorth> as a rough guide 13:23:45 <andythenorth> 30t or 40t 13:23:55 <andythenorth> for the âbritâ and âeuroâ rosters 13:24:43 <andythenorth> typically that would be around 8/8 long 13:25:03 <andythenorth> 1 cab + 1 trailer 13:26:33 <andythenorth> (RL is no guide butâŠ) RL trams have axle loads of about 10t, so a 4 axle tram would be 40t gross 13:26:41 <andythenorth> of which about 50% would be payload 13:45:24 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 14:34:13 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 14:34:16 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 14:43:32 <planetmaker> Alberth, *prove* wrong ;) 14:44:12 <planetmaker> Alberth, and you could throw in https://www.openhub.net/p/openttd for reference - that both you and him underestimate the work ;) 14:47:14 <Alberth> hmm, website is failing for me 14:47:21 <Alberth> perhaps my provider 14:49:25 <planetmaker> it quotes 63 years of work for 241k LOC on OpenTTD using the COCOMO model 14:49:38 <planetmaker> the difference of 60k LOC is probably the comments 14:50:07 <planetmaker> and blanks 14:50:56 <planetmaker> anyway, I think your reply is a very nice one 14:51:09 <planetmaker> as was your original answer 14:51:37 <Alberth> thanks for the additions 14:52:34 <planetmaker> :) No worries 14:52:46 <Alberth> I doubt it will help, but it never hurts to try :p 14:53:19 <planetmaker> the answer probably won't sway the person you replied to. But is useful for nearly everyone else :) 14:54:05 * planetmaker --> shopping 14:59:48 <peter1138> BLACK DUCK OPENHUB 14:59:53 <peter1138> Because "ohloh" was too hard 15:00:39 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 15:04:55 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust13.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 15:05:10 *** shirish [~quassel@117.222.0.247] has joined #openttd 15:09:14 <Alberth> it wasn't 'open' enough :) 15:20:28 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 15:31:02 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.108.199] has joined #openttd 15:37:57 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:39:55 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:43:52 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.108.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:47:01 <Eddi|zuHause> "with decreasing Y-O-Y commits" <-- so they also agree, openttd is dying :p 15:47:09 <andythenorth> dead 15:47:10 <andythenorth> not dying 15:47:22 <andythenorth> all the problems are solved 15:50:21 *** shirish [~quassel@59.97.97.70] has joined #openttd 15:57:54 *** jottyfan [~jottyfan@p54B46A72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:58:29 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:48 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:24:27 <andythenorth> really? 16:24:30 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:24:38 <andythenorth> pissing contests about LoC count? :o 16:24:42 <andythenorth> :) 16:25:43 <planetmaker> :) 16:26:18 <andythenorth> everyone talking about LoC should go into management :) 16:26:28 <andythenorth> and pay programmers according to how many LoC they write :) 16:26:32 <andythenorth> that works well 16:27:14 <planetmaker> :D 16:27:27 <andythenorth> FIRS is 354958 LoC :P 16:33:17 <Alberth> I'll stop cleaning up code then :p 16:33:37 <andythenorth> does that reduce LoC? o_O 16:33:57 <Alberth> it happens yes 16:35:00 <Alberth> it's like the transfer problem, you think you need N, but later someone shows you can do with N-M :) 16:38:06 <andythenorth> has anyone done a linkgraph of dependencies in openttd? 16:38:23 <andythenorth> I can write 300k LoC to do things like generate web pages 16:38:26 <andythenorth> where nothing is connected :P 16:39:04 <Alberth> firs will have that too, I think 16:39:39 <andythenorth> _most_ of my newgrf compiles would have low-connectedness 16:39:50 <andythenorth> not all, but mostly I achieved it 16:39:57 <andythenorth> whereas OpenTTD is probably very connected 16:40:25 <Alberth> I would expect so :) 16:41:05 <andythenorth> eh 16:41:06 <andythenorth> also 16:41:29 <andythenorth> the estimates for âfrom scratchâ should figure in âbuild a community' 16:41:34 <andythenorth> or âdo all your own QA' 16:41:59 <andythenorth> as well as ânow you have to do support for players' 16:42:16 <andythenorth> ânow you need automated builds' 16:42:28 <andythenorth> ânow you need to maintain your cross-platform toolchain' 16:42:28 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d00d01c.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 16:42:33 <andythenorth> LoC is silly :) 16:42:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6BB33.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:48:24 <frosch123> read it as "lines of comments" and it is better :p 17:46:30 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:46:33 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:47:53 * andythenorth wonders about âlines of bugs' 17:49:46 <michi_cc> That's identical to lines of code, isn't it? :p 17:50:09 <frosch123> i have seen code with a ratio of 1 to 5 17:50:23 <frosch123> 1 easy to spot bug per 5 lines 17:51:57 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:54 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-69-219.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 17:53:28 <andythenorth> I aim for 1 per line 17:53:39 <andythenorth> more than that is not a good sign 17:55:40 <andythenorth> hmm 17:55:43 <andythenorth> this game might finally be over 17:55:48 * andythenorth played 1970-2050 17:55:54 <Alberth> :o 17:56:08 <andythenorth> BB has given me a run of boring goals :) 17:56:24 <andythenorth> either I win them automatically due to service provided already 17:56:26 <Alberth> it's trying to encourage you to stop :p 17:56:38 <andythenorth> or thereâs no convenient source for the required cargo 17:56:45 <andythenorth> and I made myself a âno fundingâ rule :P 17:56:49 <Alberth> hmm, there should be 17:57:07 <andythenorth> I could use planes :P 17:57:30 * andythenorth screenshots the whole map :P 17:59:23 <andythenorth> only 32MB 18:06:40 <andythenorth> wow 18:06:49 <andythenorth> OpenTTDâs screenshot compression is aggressive 18:06:57 <andythenorth> 865MB -> 32MB 18:07:00 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DAB35.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:08:30 <Alberth> :) 18:08:30 <andythenorth> photoshop is giving me OOM warnings about attempting to export the same image 18:10:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4D53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:10:57 <andythenorth> Alberth: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7369/Wafflebury%20Transport,%2007-02-2050%20export.png 18:11:07 <andythenorth> about 50% of the connections are due to BB goals 18:19:20 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18BCB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:26:23 <andythenorth> Alberth: any Bee features we should add? 18:26:27 * andythenorth is going to start a new game 18:27:23 *** sla_ro|master2 [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 18:31:08 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:38:43 <Alberth> download fails, I can't seem to connect to most of the internet this evening :( 18:47:07 *** Belugas [~belugas@00011985.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:47:11 <andythenorth> slow internet is slow :P 18:47:18 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.230] has joined #openttd 18:47:21 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 18:55:02 <Supercheese> I don't think I've ever bothered to obtain grfcodec source 18:55:09 <Supercheese> since I always use NML 18:55:33 *** sla_ro|master2 [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 18:56:11 <frosch123> who would want grfcodec :p 18:56:55 <Rubidium> Dale? 18:58:02 <Supercheese> pm suggested I also patch grfcodec to support a new animation trigger 18:58:09 <andythenorth> Iron Horse uses grfcodec 18:58:17 <frosch123> i doubt nforenum knows about animation triggers 18:58:18 <andythenorth> although that might be a dubious choice 18:58:49 <Supercheese> I don't entirely know what would be required 18:58:56 <Supercheese> NML just wanted a new global constant defined 18:59:13 <Supercheese> but just using bit 5 without the global constant was perfectly fine too 19:10:00 * andythenorth adventures in trams :P 19:10:38 <andythenorth> Alberth: do you have an opinion on trying to prevent repeating goals in BB? :) 19:11:01 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host213-53-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:11:04 <Alberth> yes 19:11:07 <Alberth> hi W 19:11:16 <Alberth> it should avoid them imho 19:11:20 <Wolf01> hi hi 19:11:30 <andythenorth> can we just track the destination-cargo pairs? 19:11:57 <Alberth> should be possible 19:12:03 * andythenorth has deadlocked flash games that way 19:12:06 <andythenorth> unclosed loop 19:12:16 <andythenorth> but eh, thatâs maybe not a problem here 19:12:17 <Alberth> but eventually you'll run out of goals then 19:12:23 <frosch123> the cheap method would be: decide for a goal, hide it for a while, and only if it is not completed within 3 months, actually annouce it as goal 19:12:29 <andythenorth> ha 19:12:51 <andythenorth> this is why andythenorth can be an engineer and product designer, but not a programmer :( 19:12:57 <andythenorth> I never think of things like that 19:13:19 <Alberth> it's experience :) 19:13:25 <andythenorth> nah, itâs brain 19:13:34 <andythenorth> I have more experience than lots of people here 19:13:50 <andythenorth> @calc (37-5)/37 19:13:50 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.864864864865 19:13:57 <andythenorth> 86% of my life :P 19:14:02 <Alberth> I am sure you can come up with neat tricks in engineering or product designs 19:14:14 <andythenorth> mostly I design things to try and avoid programming :P 19:14:37 <Alberth> do they work? 19:14:39 <andythenorth> mostly 19:14:43 <andythenorth> meta-programming :P 19:14:44 <Alberth> qed 19:15:20 <andythenorth> maybe I just âsolvedâ my tram roster 19:16:01 <andythenorth> gen 1 is steam engine + wagons 19:16:06 <andythenorth> gen 2 is this style http://eurotrams.eu/get_att.php?id=39333 19:16:25 <peter1138> just shove everything in 19:16:41 <andythenorth> gen 3 this style https://manxelectricrailway.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/cg_23_1984.jpg 19:16:46 <andythenorth> peter1138: no no no 19:16:58 <andythenorth> I have to shove it in, but pretend thereâs a rationale :P 19:17:25 <andythenorth> also I need to minimise drawing 19:19:17 <frosch123> maybe try making vehicles like industries 19:19:24 <frosch123> draw some partial vehicles 19:19:35 <frosch123> and recombine them into many vehicles 19:20:22 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:20:25 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 19:25:30 *** roidal [~roland@cm140-210.liwest.at] has joined #openttd 19:27:25 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:28:22 <andythenorth> frosch123: oddly enough⊠o_O https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7371/hog-bits-la-la-la.png 19:29:08 <frosch123> make some inclined vans 19:29:30 <frosch123> where the front part is higher than the rear part 19:29:41 <andythenorth> o_O 19:29:41 <frosch123> looks weird, but less regular 19:29:54 <frosch123> it even seems to be common for some tank wagons 19:29:57 <andythenorth> oh step-frame trailers? 19:30:38 <frosch123> https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTI7y1l3kewEcZny1UQren3xlDWSHbYvFxeGbNPQuMlZ0saslZnmg 19:30:58 <andythenorth> oh sloped :) 19:31:04 <andythenorth> in 8bpp? o_O 19:31:20 <andythenorth> at 1x zoom 19:32:56 <frosch123> https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQUc5uDfx2ifmbkZ9b47HVVlDn-qZ5O_g6yhcpviAEISX7JgdJdQw <- or some flatbed loaders with cargo on different levels 19:33:11 <andythenorth> yeah thatâs step-frame 19:33:16 <andythenorth> trucks in trucks :) 19:35:17 <frosch123> https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTO6aNo4C8Vl6fOjvpkbu_WJIxn3Cob77uyu-pPoyHtR0WdB7okuA <- hmm, i guess that glitches in ottd 19:36:05 <andythenorth> why? :) 19:36:31 <frosch123> trailer is above cabin, not purely behind it 19:36:40 <andythenorth> nah itâs a rigid truck ;) 19:36:47 <andythenorth> âovertaking permittedâ :P 19:37:09 <andythenorth> overlapping that way does work with trailers, but yeah, not perfect 19:37:35 <andythenorth> have to cut pixels out of the cab 19:39:38 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 19:40:34 <frosch123> anyway, i mean the trailers could be more irregular shaped 19:40:49 <frosch123> instead of rectangular 19:41:29 <andythenorth> agreed 19:41:49 <andythenorth> the set needs some feedback tbh 19:41:53 <andythenorth> I am a bit stuck with it 19:42:02 <andythenorth> and Nobody Uses RVs :P 19:43:30 <frosch123> i would use them, if they had some advantage over trams :) 19:44:08 <andythenorth> what qualifies as advantage? 19:44:13 <andythenorth> and which trams? :P 19:44:36 <frosch123> i use them for short distance feeder services 19:44:40 <frosch123> where other people station-walk 19:44:54 <frosch123> they do not need to be fast 19:45:02 <frosch123> but they need high capacity on little space 19:45:40 <andythenorth> how much is âhigh' 19:45:54 <andythenorth> looking at HEQS, the capacities are quite high 19:46:14 <frosch123> servicing 500 units per month using a single road stop 19:46:38 <andythenorth> 125t per tram? 19:46:47 <frosch123> usually i use the medium length 19:46:50 <andythenorth> yeah 19:46:51 <frosch123> 80t or so 19:47:27 <frosch123> so, maybe rv could be faster accelerating than trams 19:47:34 <frosch123> so they free the stop faster 19:47:41 <andythenorth> cheat the TE? 19:47:46 <andythenorth> hmm 19:47:57 <frosch123> big TE and big loading speed 19:48:01 <frosch123> and not too small capacity 19:48:17 <andythenorth> Road Hog trucks are 30-40t 19:48:20 <andythenorth> seems to work 19:48:52 <andythenorth> they struggle to reach top speed though :P 19:49:52 <andythenorth> so trams need to be 80t-150t or so 19:50:01 <andythenorth> within a 16/8 length 19:50:07 <andythenorth> or a 24/8 length 19:51:15 <andythenorth> so probably 40t per unit or so 19:54:01 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 20:02:46 <andythenorth> frosch123: 25mph / 35mph / 45mph? (3 generations 1860-1960) 20:02:49 <andythenorth> or so 20:03:48 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:05:53 <frosch123> @calc 45*1.6 20:05:53 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 72 20:06:09 <frosch123> @calc 120/1.6 20:06:09 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 75 20:06:22 <frosch123> add another generation 1990 with 75 mph? 20:06:51 <frosch123> hmm, maybe only 65 20:12:09 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust13.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:14:33 <andythenorth> oddly enough 20:14:41 <andythenorth> yes 20:14:51 * andythenorth hoped someone would suggest that 20:15:10 <andythenorth> now I just need the option for diesel trams :P 20:23:48 <andythenorth> ha 20:23:55 <andythenorth> the Baldyâs Boss bot is still posting :) 20:24:05 <andythenorth> whoever wrote that code has a good sense of humour 20:28:36 *** jottyfan [~jottyfan@p54B46A72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:41:55 <andythenorth> also 20:41:56 <andythenorth> bed 20:41:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 20:50:09 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has left #openttd [] 20:59:14 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust13.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 21:21:36 * planetmaker ponders the airplane landing trigger patch 21:24:25 <frosch123> it should pass something usefil in var18 21:24:29 <frosch123> just not sure what :p 21:24:43 <frosch123> not sure whether there is a runway id in the statemachine 21:24:59 <frosch123> and it should also trigger for heliports then 21:25:11 <frosch123> and likely also for taking off :) 21:26:05 <planetmaker> hm, taking off does not cause black stuff on the runway :) 21:26:18 <planetmaker> so it would need means to distinguish take-off and touch-down 21:26:31 <frosch123> yes, i think the current patch is over-specific 21:26:55 <frosch123> only triggering for planes is stupid, instead there should be a var which indicates that 21:27:40 <frosch123> something like runway/heliport id 21:27:47 <frosch123> and possibly a second trigger for takeoff 21:28:00 <frosch123> though not sure whether takeoff triggers at the start or end of takeoff 21:28:25 <frosch123> so, possibly touchdown only is better defined for now 21:33:28 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-69-219.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 21:37:23 *** roidal [~roland@cm140-210.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2] 21:37:49 <planetmaker> hm, yes... landings only. But all, both heli and plane 21:41:20 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 21:41:45 <frosch123> doesn't look like the runways are numbered in current state machines 21:43:19 <planetmaker> any numbering scheme would be arbitrary. And make any newgrf airports even more difficult :) 21:44:10 <frosch123> well, one could use the state number :p 21:44:24 <frosch123> but it has not been as constant in the past 21:44:31 <frosch123> people kept on changing the state machines 21:44:37 <frosch123> to make them more efficient 21:44:50 <frosch123> otoh, number of runways do not change :p 21:45:17 <planetmaker> but for really custom airports? Also, for the existing ones, how are the runways numbered? 21:45:57 <frosch123> whatever provides the graphics always has runways in specific positions ni mind 21:46:09 <frosch123> it does not matter whether the airports would be big entities, or tile based 21:46:22 <frosch123> the graphics would always be blocks 21:46:30 <frosch123> either one big, or multiple small ones 21:48:39 <planetmaker> I thought of providing the tile_pos in extra_callback_info2 (that's var 0x18, I think) 21:48:40 * frosch123 ponders adding a trigger byte to AirportFTAbuildup / AirportFTA structs 21:49:09 <frosch123> planetmaker: that's complicated wrt. rotations 21:49:22 <planetmaker> tile_pos relative to Northern tip... meh :P 21:50:15 <frosch123> but ok, a relative position in default rotation could also work 21:51:21 <frosch123> one byte for X, one byte for Y, one byte for the state change (takeoff start, takeoff end, land begin, touchdown, land end) 21:51:34 <frosch123> (... start loading, finish loading) 21:51:46 <frosch123> possibly all of the transitions states 21:51:51 <planetmaker> one *byte* for x and y? 21:52:05 <planetmaker> 7 bits each would definitely suffice 21:52:08 <frosch123> yes, airports are bigger than 16x16, aren't they? 21:52:22 <planetmaker> stations can't be bigger than 64^2 21:52:37 <planetmaker> and airports are not bigger than 16x16 (currently) 21:53:04 <planetmaker> biggest is 11x9 21:53:21 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Airport_Tiles#Relative_position_.2843.29 <- also uses YYXX 21:55:38 <planetmaker> I had been thinking of http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callbacks#Object_slope_check_.28157.29 21:56:59 <frosch123> well, there are either YX or YYXX formats 21:57:07 <frosch123> i would pick YYXX if there is enough space 21:58:10 <frosch123> might try something tomorrow 21:58:13 <frosch123> night for now 21:58:17 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d00d01c.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:59:12 <Wolf01> 'night 21:59:18 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:59:56 <planetmaker> g'night 22:00:02 <planetmaker> Also from here :) 22:07:06 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18BCB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:16 *** bigyihsuan [~bigyihsua@pool-98-109-156-253.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 22:08:33 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:08:44 <bigyihsuan> Hello all 22:08:56 <bigyihsuan> I'm assuming that this is in the game chat, yes? 22:09:33 <bigyihsuan> wait, never mind 22:09:46 <bigyihsuan> looking for /r/openttd channet 22:09:50 <bigyihsuan> *channel 22:10:27 *** bigyihsuan [~bigyihsua@pool-98-109-156-253.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has left #openttd [] 22:44:18 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:59:03 *** Rejf [rejf@nintendos.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:15 *** a_sad_dude [~virtuall@159.148.61.18] has joined #openttd 23:00:33 *** Rejf [rejf@nintendos.pl] has joined #openttd 23:10:23 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:10:52 <a_sad_dude> is there a place i can go to to spam my new server with weird rules? :) 23:11:45 <Eddi|zuHause> you're probably not going to reach a significant audience in here. and especially not at this hour :p 23:12:20 <Eddi|zuHause> "significant" meaning 1000 people reading it, so 1 of them will actually try it 23:15:24 <a_sad_dude> right :) it's just too hard to find someone to play with these days 23:17:15 <a_sad_dude> anyway, if anyone finds "payment for 20 tiles maximum, no time bonus" an interesting rule to play with, come to "ECS local service" server 23:44:40 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.227.148] has quit [Quit: Tired of mIRC? 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