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Log for #openttd on 28th July 2015:
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03:38:10  <Flygon> http://www.goodfood.com.au/good-food/food-news/nutella-shortage-sparked-by-melbourne-doughnut-craze-20150728-gilb29.html This is the part where we implement Nutella as an industry
03:56:45  <Supercheese> Yuck, Nutella is gross
03:56:54  <Supercheese> anything hazelnut is
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08:16:59  <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27344 trunk/src/viewport.cpp (2015-07-28 10:16:52 +0200 )
08:17:00  <DorpsGek> -Doc: Documenting the (Re)setObjectToPlace functions.
08:26:56  <planetmaker> \o/
08:28:08  <Alberth> just 3 functions, nothing really exciting :)
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08:31:09  <Supercheese> zounds
08:34:01  <planetmaker> yes, I saw the patches yesterday. Docs are useful, too :)
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10:11:04  <Alberth> hi hi
10:12:26  <Wolf01> o/
10:15:23  <Wolf01> now I have... no more space in my room :|
10:16:58  <Wolf01> it's filled with lego, and now I brought home the boxes I had at the workplace
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10:29:32  <Alberth> move out to the work place
10:29:51  <Wolf01> I just moved out from the work place
10:30:25  <Alberth> throw away old lego, or find a good home for it
10:30:59  <Wolf01> they are all new, I started to purchase them 2 years ago :D
10:31:49  <Alberth> you doubted that the lego factories could manufacture enough lego to fill your house?
10:32:12  <Alberth> hmm, maybe you can use the lego to enlarge your house?
10:32:22  <Wolf01> that was a project
10:33:09  <Wolf01> but I discarded it because I'm worried of rain coming down when I use some pieces for a moc
10:38:16  <Alberth> only one solution, stop collecting
10:38:48  <Wolf01> too late
10:59:26  <Wolf01> does anybody of you uses flixster?
11:05:18  <__ln__> *does anybody of you use
11:05:42  <Wolf01> I was expecting that, thank you ;)
11:05:46  <__ln__> unless you're talking bjarni english
11:10:34  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: btw they now say the uboat is from WWI
11:16:16  <__ln__> yeah they do. but it is russian like they suspected!
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11:42:43  <argoneus> guys
11:42:54  <argoneus> nevermind
12:21:59  <Eddi|zuHause> whenever anyone says that, i mind even more
12:23:16  <Wolf01> me too
12:25:46  * V453000 gives precisely zero shit
12:26:37  <Wolf01> me too... but I'm bipolar
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13:21:58  <Quatroking> what is the easiest way to figure out how much HP the engine of a train needs in order to pull its load without a lot of effort?
13:22:54  <planetmaker> build it and try
13:23:19  <__ln__> what it if need a lot of effort nevertheless, but it just looks easy because of the high HP?
13:23:25  <__ln__> *needs
13:23:59  <planetmaker> Quatroking, if it's unsatisfactorily, use auto-replace to change the engine to something better
13:24:14  <Quatroking> is there no formula used or something?
13:25:41  <planetmaker> there's so many variables, including how the vehicle behaves, how many wagons you have, what steepness you have, how big your slopes are, definition of 'lot of effort'...
13:26:01  <Quatroking> I guess that's true
13:26:02  <planetmaker> otherwise you can just take the steepness, the weight, the tractive effort, the horse power and do the normal physics
13:26:13  <planetmaker> but that's not necessarily 'easy' anymore :)
13:26:17  <Quatroking> then there's also wether I use realistic accerelation vs classic
13:26:40  <planetmaker> https://wiki.openttd.org/Tractive_Effort
13:28:25  <Alberth> don't forget about the track layout
13:29:07  <Quatroking> I try to keep my corners as wide as possible and I avoid slopes
13:30:01  <Alberth> ok, not everybody does that
13:38:32  <Quatroking> is it possible to have the "vehicle xxx made no profit last year" message ignore certain vehicles
13:38:50  <Quatroking> I have a boat that takes longer than a year to make a round trip
13:39:58  <Alberth> nope
13:40:04  <Quatroking> aww
13:40:25  <Alberth> tbh I am not sure it's bad not to have it
13:40:54  <Alberth> a year is an awful long distance
13:41:41  <Quatroking> It's a big ship that goes to fishing grounds, loads up 500 tons and then comes back
13:41:45  <Alberth> it makes sense to get some money from each vehicle each year
13:42:00  <Quatroking> it profits a couple thousand
13:42:07  <Alberth> yeah, but perhaps 500 tons is too big
13:42:26  <Quatroking> You mean replace it with smaller boats?
13:42:36  <Alberth> or you need to add more fishing grounds
13:42:45  <Alberth> smaller boats would work
13:43:28  <Alberth> less profit in total probably, but maybe you get more fish
13:43:38  <Alberth> as your delivery time is shorter
13:43:57  <Alberth> depends on the industry
13:45:01  <Terkhen> hello
13:45:13  <Alberth> hello T
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13:53:45  <Quatroking> Alberth, figured out a solution, I put a harbor on an island between the fishing grounds and the harbor and put a dock there
13:54:04  <Quatroking> ~5 boats now dump their load there for transfer, and it all gets picked up by a tanker
13:56:51  <Alberth> seems nice :)
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13:57:04  <Quatroking> Works pretty well so far
13:57:15  <Alberth> I often do that transfer at one of the fishing grounds :)
14:14:39  <Eddi|zuHause> that's problematic if multiple people load cargo :p
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14:24:28  <argoneus> man
14:24:39  <argoneus> I will never figure out how to make networks without making awkward terminus stations
14:24:51  <argoneus> when I look at ottdcoop saves, the map just flows with short trains
14:24:57  <argoneus> no awkward places
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14:25:44  <Alberth> when a professional it does, it always looks easy :)
14:25:47  <planetmaker> argoneus, those games are many many man-hours of network building and optimizing :)
14:26:04  <planetmaker> also, terminus are not necessarily awkward
14:26:10  <argoneus> I wish there were like
14:26:15  <argoneus> what is it called
14:26:22  <argoneus> like when you see progress update every 30 minutes
14:26:27  <argoneus> from the beginning
14:26:54  <argoneus> timelapse!
14:27:20  <Alberth> the important question is, is your current game improving over your  previous game?
14:27:35  <argoneus> I'm not sure
14:27:39  <argoneus> like my normal game is something like
14:27:50  <argoneus> find a good coal mine and a well-distanced refinery
14:28:10  <argoneus> connect them to make initial money with a 2track, then find another coal mine along the way and connect that to the railroad, then expand this network
14:28:25  <argoneus> then start hating myself because every train has to go all the way because I didn't make any feeder stations and terminus stations look weird
14:28:26  <Alberth> coal to refinery?
14:28:32  <argoneus> power plant*
14:28:46  <argoneus> then look up openttdcoop saves and see all the roros how it flows with short trains
14:28:50  <argoneus> then go here and whine
14:28:52  <argoneus> that's my usual flowchart these days
14:29:11  <Alberth> coop does hours and hours of pre-planning
14:29:24  <Alberth> they don't just jump in and build
14:29:35  <argoneus> this reminds me
14:29:48  <argoneus> there's a server where people race who can make most money in 3 years right
14:29:53  <argoneus> or 10 years or something like that
14:30:00  <argoneus> I could try finding recordings of that
14:30:33  <Alberth> I prefer to just start, like you, and do a lot of changes as the network expands
14:30:51  <Alberth> max amount of money doesn't sound like a nice goal to me, tbh
14:31:28  <Alberth> you considered just change the network when you don't like some part of it?
14:31:44  <argoneus> but I'm not sure -how- to change it
14:32:10  <Alberth> "I want a feeder station" seems pretty clear :)
14:32:11  <argoneus> like, it makes money and trains sometimes get stuck on it, but it works
14:32:18  <argoneus> but I don't know how to improve it
14:32:32  <argoneus> yeah but I don't know how to make a feeder station out of a junction
14:32:35  <argoneus> or if I should even do that
14:32:47  <argoneus> to be fair it's hard to "lose" at this game
14:32:58  <argoneus> I just want my networks to be pretty, but I can't figure out what it is that makes them pretty
14:33:05  <Alberth> the simplest way to find out is try it
14:34:06  <Alberth> I work at a very concrete level; I watch the trains, and decide they should behave differently at some point
14:34:19  <argoneus> what length trains do you generally use?
14:34:23  <argoneus> I use 7 but it looks weird af
14:34:27  <Alberth> then I figure out how to achieve that (hopefully), and just try it
14:34:31  <argoneus> I'm considering 3 or 5
14:34:42  <Alberth> my stations are mostly 5 tiles
14:34:58  <Alberth> for industries
14:35:15  <Alberth> 7 for pax, as you get much of those :)
14:35:40  <Alberth> but even at station length 5, my trains are usually shorter 3.5 - 4.5 or so
14:36:07  <argoneus> hmm
14:36:16  <argoneus> anyway, at ottdcoop they plan things out thoroughly before even placing anything?
14:36:24  <Alberth> yep
14:39:35  <Alberth> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Planning    this is about planning
14:40:06  <argoneus> hm
14:40:14  <Alberth> which is of course needed if you build with several people and want something that works as a whole :)
14:42:54  <planetmaker> argoneus, every map we play has a plan as to what we want to do with it. It decides on train length, the engines and tracks used and which (secondary) industries or towns will be services (approximately) in a sketchy way
14:43:18  <planetmaker> s/services/serviced/
14:43:38  <planetmaker> it also and especially decides where roughly the main tracks are about to go
14:52:06  <Alberth> did you ever try a game with BusyBee?
14:52:23  <Alberth> that script gives you lots of small transport goals
14:52:44  <argoneus> never heard of it
14:53:06  <Alberth> your network gets scattered over the map, and you connect things you normally would never do
14:53:17  <argoneus> isn't that bad when learning how to network?
14:53:21  <argoneus> when I can't even plan properly
14:54:24  <Alberth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=72498
14:54:40  <Alberth> well, it depends on how you want to play
14:55:05  <Alberth> indeed BB encourages you to gradually change and extend your network
14:55:25  <V453000> HENCE BAD :>
14:55:26  <Alberth> if you are more of the 'one big bang' type, then BB isn't for you
14:55:28  <V453000> :P
14:55:36  <argoneus> I just want to be able to make nice looking networks :(
14:55:44  <argoneus> I can make profitable networks, but they don't look nice
14:56:02  <V453000> I liked how YACD added destinations as industries were growing, but the existing lines were necessary as well
14:56:31  <Alberth> I had loads of trouble to survive with yacd
14:56:46  <Alberth> maybe it doesn't play well with industries
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14:59:42  <Alberth> I think to get further you have to get into more detail of what you don't like
14:59:58  <argoneus> well
15:00:13  <argoneus> my stations are usually terminus stations, where my trains go in and then go back to wherever they came from
15:00:38  <argoneus> but the ottdcoop style is like a loop of short quick trains moving constantly through the network without stopping or turning pretty much
15:00:41  <argoneus> like a swarm
15:00:47  <argoneus> but when I try to do that it's horrible
15:01:20  <Alberth> coop style requires very careful building
15:02:03  <Alberth> it's not something you 'just' do
15:03:02  <Alberth> can you point what is horrible?  if you can do that, you can think about ways to avoid the bad thing from happening
15:03:48  <argoneus> well, with my building style I usually end up with one huge overloaded super terminus that branches off to the entire map
15:04:02  <argoneus> there aren't really any traffic jams, but one train has to go from one end of the map to the other to unload
15:04:14  <argoneus> instead of gracefully balancing the load along the entire way somehow
15:04:28  <argoneus> I'm not sure how to explain
15:04:56  <argoneus> like I don't have anything like a main line, it's just a bunch of railroads branching out
15:05:16  <Alberth> why do you get a central terminus?
15:05:50  <argoneus> because when I have a power plant, it's easy to just connect coal mines to it
15:05:57  <argoneus> instead of trying to start another industry
15:06:44  <Alberth> make a rule, no more than 5 sources to an industry (or whatever number)
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15:11:04  <argoneus> and when I reach the limit
15:11:10  <argoneus> I want to branch the network out to another industry
15:11:10  <argoneus> ?
15:11:51  <Alberth> next source must go to a different destination
15:12:05  <Alberth> may go over existing track, imho
15:14:37  <Alberth> but even if you don't branch, at some point you run out of coal mines, right?
15:15:32  <Alberth> oh, maybe you play at normal industry density?
15:15:54  <Alberth> I tend to play low or very low or so
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15:17:06  <Alberth> which means you get industries mostly in the middle of nowhere
15:19:35  <argoneus> I play at high density
15:19:36  <argoneus> ._.
15:20:19  <Alberth> ah, no need to go across the map then :p
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15:50:56  <Alberth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=59689    argoneus  this may be fun too, connect all sources to all destinations. It's very tight though, complicated to do
15:51:44  <argoneus> ._.
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16:59:47  <__ln__> http://www.cnx-software.com/2015/07/27/new-fcc-rules-may-prevent-installing-openwrt-on-wifi-routers/
17:03:16  <Alberth> oh joy :(
17:09:50  <Wolf01> :(
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17:26:28  <Terkhen> and, by extension, in europe too
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18:17:11  <DanMacK> Hey all
18:17:18  <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth
18:17:18  <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 7 hours, 34 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <andythenorth> maybe not right now, but in 2 weeks, after holidays
18:18:07  *** DanMacK [~3fee8a84@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit []
18:19:07  <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27345 trunk/src/object_gui.cpp (2015-07-28 20:18:59 +0200 )
18:19:08  <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish: Hide selected view if no object selected.
18:21:00  <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27346 /trunk/src (3 files) (2015-07-28 20:20:54 +0200 )
18:21:01  <DorpsGek> -Feature: Make the object placement gui an independent window.
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18:58:56  <Danol> Hey
18:59:10  <Danol> Is there a way how to sell all my trains and rails? I want to totally rework my netowrk
19:02:24  <Hiddenfunstuff> theres command to stop AI companies..
19:02:32  <Hiddenfunstuff> But afaik that doesnt apply to the user owned ones
19:03:06  <planetmaker> AI companies are not owned by users... and yes, a server admin can also delete player companies when no player is inside them
19:03:09  <planetmaker> reset_company
19:03:20  <Danol> I want to keep the money
19:03:34  <planetmaker> well :) send them all to depots and then sell them.
19:03:47  <planetmaker> use the "send to depot" on the global vehicle lists so it's one click
19:03:54  <Danol> Okay
19:04:01  <Danol> but when I reset_company, does it keep my money?
19:04:10  <planetmaker> no
19:04:27  <planetmaker> it simply deletes the company and everything it owns
19:04:32  <Danol> Yep
19:04:35  <Danol> that would be the problem
19:04:36  <Danol> Hmm
19:04:46  <Danol> Or I guess I could add that money back by cheat? :P
19:04:53  <Danol> Also, I'd lose ratings in towns, right?
19:04:58  <planetmaker> well, use the 'send to depot' tactic, if you don't want to start anew and cheat money
19:05:15  <Danol> I want to delete all the rails, too
19:05:21  <Hiddenfunstuff> he got still probably shitload of rails
19:05:21  <planetmaker> reset_company makes the company non-existent
19:05:31  <Danol> Two shitloads
19:05:36  <planetmaker> yes, then start a new company and cheat money.
19:05:57  <Hiddenfunstuff> ratings in towns? who gives a damn about those? as long as you can bribe them back up
19:05:58  <planetmaker> or build a money-maker first: two airports, far apart adjacent to big cities
19:06:06  <Danol> Oh
19:06:08  <Danol> well
19:06:09  <Danol> hm
19:06:09  <Danol> mright
19:06:17  <Danol> well
19:06:19  <planetmaker> use station-walk to cover the entire town and you'll have big money in no time :)
19:06:20  <Danol> let's try it then
19:06:22  <Danol> sp
19:06:27  <Danol> How do I reset the company? :)
19:07:36  <Danol> Found it
19:07:43  <planetmaker> start the map in multiplayer... ok :)
19:08:31  <Hiddenfunstuff> Whats wrong with it? every game i play are multiplayer games.. even if they are local
19:10:14  <Danol> Now how do I add that money?
19:10:20  <Danol> in multiplayer
19:10:26  <Danol> (I am the server)
19:15:04  <Hiddenfunstuff> well thats an intresting question.. never through of it
19:15:27  <Danol> heh
19:15:37  <Danol> solved it by going into singleplayer and then cheating it in :D
19:16:03  <Hiddenfunstuff> lol
19:16:07  <planetmaker> yes, you can only cheat in SP
19:16:13  <Hiddenfunstuff> not even by console?
19:16:14  <Danol> Well, thanks guys :D
19:16:26  <Danol> Console offers only some commands
19:16:31  <Danol> Adding money seems not to be one of them
19:16:38  <Danol> I could kick myself, though
19:17:04  <Hiddenfunstuff> intresting
19:17:35  <Hiddenfunstuff> Iv mostly just told AIs to piss off from my tracks or plans if they build on them with the stop_ai
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19:38:30  <Danol> Hey
19:38:51  <Danol> One question about block entry pre-signal
19:39:08  <Danol> in the wiki, there's written: "If there is at least one green exit pre-signal, the entry pre-signal wil also show green."
19:39:56  <Danol> Does it mean that it will let the train go even if there's a train in the block?
19:42:59  <frosch123> no
19:43:39  <Danol> okay
19:44:22  <Danol> and in that way, does it work like a block signal or path signal? I mean, does it check if there's a path to the green exit signal, or does it go all red when there's train anywhere in the sectin?
19:45:47  <frosch123> "block entry pre-signal" says "block"
19:46:05  <Danol> okay
19:46:06  <Danol> thanks :)
19:49:37  <Danol> loll
19:49:43  <Danol> That was probably a stupid question
19:54:22  <frosch123> luckily andy is gone
19:54:34  <frosch123> otherwise he would troll the bros reddit thread
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19:57:40  <frosch123> "who's Dutch and where is his code?" <- wow
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20:17:32  * Rubidium is and in SCM ;)
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22:01:56  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:25:17  <tommy> dose any body knows to get vicals in the game openttd
23:26:33  <Sylf> What exactly are you trying to do?
23:29:37  *** Nathan1852_ [~Nathan185@p5DC117A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
23:29:39  <Sylf> If it's about getting started with openttd, including buying vehicles, you can see some tutorials at https://wiki.openttd.org/Tutorial
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