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00:02:35 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-108-6-12-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 00:05:19 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-109-233.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 00:23:19 <Wolf01> mmh night time 00:23:28 <Wolf01> 'night all 00:23:30 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 01:14:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6C0C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 01:20:46 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B210.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:41:39 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:53:04 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 02:24:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6C0C.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:59:52 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 02:59:55 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 03:06:07 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:37:01 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:07:27 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-108-6-12-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:39:46 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66802.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD56E0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:41:23 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 05:41:26 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 06:25:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:27:18 <andythenorth> o/ 06:27:20 *** roidal [~roland@62-46-140-15.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 06:28:30 <andythenorth> ha ha bitcoin currency 06:32:18 <Alberth> moin 06:37:23 <Supercheese> if you have 8 bitcoins, do you have a bytecoin? 06:46:58 <Alberth> sounds likely :) 07:04:30 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18F92.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:23:24 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:26:12 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:34:34 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 07:48:33 <andythenorth> such Bee 07:48:36 <andythenorth> so Busy 07:49:00 <Alberth> :) 07:49:06 <Supercheese> very Goal 07:50:47 <andythenorth> eh 07:50:57 <andythenorth> cdist should be renamed Cargo Flow 07:51:02 <andythenorth> itâs more accurate 07:51:44 <andythenorth> and (maybe this exists), I want an option to set demand ratio to 1/(number destination nodes) 07:52:04 <andythenorth> :P 07:52:17 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 07:52:50 <andythenorth> I donât know whether that would work well for routing at intermediate nodes 07:53:09 <andythenorth> but for source nodes, for freight cargos at least, it would make the most sense to me 07:56:37 <andythenorth> gah 07:56:38 <Alberth> disable distance influence? 07:56:47 <andythenorth> already done 07:56:57 <andythenorth> if I was a better programmer I would be able to solve this for myself 07:57:17 <andythenorth> but I have been programming for 32 of 37 years, and I only got marginally better in that time :P 07:58:04 <Alberth> too busy doing other things as well :) 07:58:29 <andythenorth> nah, I just miss some essential part of my brain that makes the difference between âgoodâ and âpassable' 07:59:23 <Alberth> the latter only exists for me due to time constraints 07:59:40 <Alberth> or other bigger fish that needs to be fried first 08:01:05 <Supercheese> ugh I hate people who post mods that look cool based on the sreenshots but don't have a damn readme.txt to explain exactly what the mod does 08:01:40 <Supercheese> seriously, take the time to explain what the devil you've done, users like that 08:01:54 <andythenorth> ? 08:01:57 <Supercheese> Factorio 08:02:07 <Supercheese> but also applies to other games 08:02:28 <andythenorth> rename this channel 08:02:34 <Supercheese> they've banned mods without licenses, but they should also ban mods without readmes 08:02:40 <andythenorth> #formerlyOpenTTDnowFactorio 08:03:24 <Alberth> no "hate" button? 08:03:55 <Supercheese> "description": "Various Things, related to Energy, Transformations" 08:04:04 <Supercheese> worst description ever 08:04:13 <andythenorth> hmm 08:04:19 <Alberth> nah, I can invent worse ones :p 08:04:41 <Supercheese> the graphics are gorgeous though, it's sad 08:04:54 <andythenorth> the goal I have in mind is entailed by âif I went to the planned view on a station, all destinations have same amount plannedâ 08:05:25 <Alberth> really? even if your lines are unbalanced wrt capacity? 08:05:49 <andythenorth> yes 08:05:51 <andythenorth> absolutely 08:06:19 <andythenorth> not for pax 08:06:24 <andythenorth> nor mail 08:06:27 <andythenorth> but for freight 08:07:48 <Supercheese> Ho, FIRS 2 has shown up in the screenshots forum already 08:07:58 <Supercheese> people are quick to update it seems 08:08:37 <andythenorth> if I can find the right place in the lingraph or station_cmd.cpp I can patch this 08:08:44 <andythenorth> but there are so many places capacity is considered 08:15:29 <andythenorth> eh 08:15:40 <andythenorth> whereâs the guard in cdist against positive feedback loop? 08:15:47 * andythenorth knows it must be there, but canât see it 08:16:34 <andythenorth> add more vehicles -> edge capacity is increased -> flow ratio to that edge increased -> more cargo waiting -> add more vehicles 08:17:06 <andythenorth> ach 08:17:11 * andythenorth must to the park with children 08:17:17 <andythenorth> bbl 08:17:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:13:33 <planetmaker> moin moin 09:14:24 <Alberth> o/ 09:14:35 <Alberth> just in time for some coffee 09:19:49 <TrueBrain> right; morning indeed :) 09:19:57 <TrueBrain> and the moving of VMs continue ... *is already tired of it* :P 09:20:19 <Alberth> #do the VM shuffle# 09:20:35 <TrueBrain> 7 done, 12 to go 09:22:52 <Taede> moin 09:24:42 *** roidal_ [~roland@62-46-140-15.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 09:24:48 *** roidal [~roland@62-46-140-15.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:31:10 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-73-050.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 10:39:59 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d008065.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 10:45:08 <frosch123> Alberth: any idea about fs#6370 ? 10:47:02 <Alberth> oh, it's a different window 10:47:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6C0C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 10:47:45 <Alberth> so likely, it needs the same kind of changes as the normal in-game toolbar 10:47:54 <frosch123> i am not sure whether fs#6372 is the same, when there is an assertion our tool gives no useful backtrace 10:48:52 <Alberth> does sound likely 10:58:19 <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pjjrukdrk 11:10:58 <TrueBrain> Binaries on openttd.org will be unavailable for ~5 minutes 11:11:03 <__ln__> oh no 11:13:06 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host15-216-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:13:26 <Wolf01> hi o/ 11:15:06 <frosch123> hola hi hoi 11:16:19 <frosch123> i wonder when we finally rename IMGBTN and TEXTBTN to TOGGLExxxBTN 11:16:34 <TrueBrain> I feel a patch coming up? :P 11:18:34 <TrueBrain> ugh, filecheck kicked in .. this will take a bit more time :D 11:23:45 <TrueBrain> okay, alive and kicking again 11:23:46 <TrueBrain> w00p 11:28:52 <TrueBrain> LDAP will be bye-bye for a few; authentication will fail :) 11:29:25 <frosch123> don't lock yourself out :) 11:29:37 <TrueBrain> hehe 11:30:02 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 11:31:07 <TrueBrain> and it is back online :) 11:33:37 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:34:12 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 11:38:19 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 11:41:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 11:44:21 *** wito [~wito@totlandweb.info] has joined #openttd 11:44:51 <wito> Good morning, fellers, I'm having an odd problem and was wondering if someone could help me out? 11:45:03 <wito> Is anyone familiar with font settings on Mac OS X? 11:49:39 <wito> I set small_font, and everything is groovy, but I set medium_font, and all the fonts are replaced with some other font, at all sizes. 11:55:15 <TrueBrain> MySQL server will go down for a few minutes; expect issues on all services 12:00:47 <Alberth> you also set fontsize? 12:00:57 <Alberth> no mac here, but iirc that was required too 12:01:22 <wito> Yeah, font-size too 12:02:07 <wito> Getting this: dbg: [freetype] CT-Font for en_US: American Typewriter 12:02:32 <wito> American Typewriter is the wrong font, also, the first font alphabetically, so I assume that's why it's selected. 12:02:50 <Alberth> sounds fair enough 12:03:06 <Alberth> so it may no be able to find your font? 12:03:10 <TrueBrain> MySQL is back up; it will take several minutes before all services notice it is :) 12:03:18 <wito> Finds it fine for small_font 12:03:35 <Alberth> added quotes around the font-name for the spaces? 12:03:48 <wito> No spaces in the font name. 12:03:56 <wito> dbg: [freetype] Requested 'Osaka', using 'Osaka Regular' 12:03:57 <Alberth> small_font is not much used 12:04:24 <Alberth> requested font exists in requested point size? 12:04:29 <wito> Hrm. 12:04:55 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27397 trunk/src/terraform_gui.cpp (2015-09-13 14:04:47 +0200 ) 12:04:56 <DorpsGek> -Fix(r27346)[FS#6370]: Fix object editing crash in scenario editor (based on work by adf88) 12:05:33 <wito> It is 12, so it should, but I can check 12:05:57 <Alberth> try the small font settings? 12:06:05 <Alberth> that should work at least 12:06:31 <Alberth> tbh no idea what's wrong, mostly just tossing ideas 12:06:47 <Alberth> frosch123: close #6372 too? 12:07:55 <frosch123> did the bug trigger that assetions? i did not check 12:08:11 <Alberth> hmm, assertion looks wrong nwid != NULL 12:09:16 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the point of an assertion to look wrong? 12:09:21 <wito> Okay, so setting the small font works, setting the large works. 12:09:36 <wito> But I set the medium, and everything falls back to American Typewriter. 12:10:23 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: it's wrong in the sense it's not one I expected :p 12:10:30 <Eddi|zuHause> wito: the question was whether it works if you set medium font size to the same as the small font size 12:11:52 <wito> Nope. If I set the medium font size to the same as the small and set the font, it falls back. 12:12:24 <wito> If I don't set the medium font, it uses the default default font. 12:13:26 <Alberth> typo? try searching for the font, it should hit at both places 12:13:44 <Alberth> case sensitive search :) 12:14:03 <wito> Search what for the font? 12:14:15 <Alberth> search the font name in the file 12:14:27 <Alberth> if you spelled it exactly the same, you get 2 hits 12:14:43 <Alberth> if you typoed, you get less then 2 hits 12:15:00 <andythenorth> eh 12:15:05 * andythenorth ponders a water mill in FIRS 12:15:09 <wito> The font name is spelled correctly. 12:15:23 <Alberth> do you use other fonts, andy? 12:15:24 <wito> It's copy-pasted, so would have to be. 12:15:36 <andythenorth> I only use the original TTD base set 12:15:44 <andythenorth> anything else looks wrong to me 12:15:54 <Alberth> :) 12:16:00 <andythenorth> I didnât know fonts could be changed :) 12:17:01 <Alberth> well, theoretically, it should be possible. Reality however seems to disagree currently :) 12:18:10 <wito> I'm going to have to dig into the source. 12:18:10 <Alberth> wito: tried setting only the normal font? maybe it breaks on having several different sizes at the same time 12:18:25 <wito> What's the command for checking out the SVN? 12:18:26 <Alberth> which would be weird too 12:18:33 <andythenorth> wito: use the git checkout 12:18:39 <andythenorth> http://git.openttd.org 12:18:55 <wito> Even better. 12:18:57 <andythenorth> or you can dig through the src tree online 12:19:07 <andythenorth> you want trunk.git usually 12:26:28 <wito> Hrm. 12:27:31 <wito> I think the problem might be in MissingGlyphSearcher::FindMissingGlyphs, but I'm not sure. 12:38:04 <andythenorth> hmm 12:38:17 <andythenorth> hazard of playing OpenTTD: I see things I want to change :| 12:44:55 <TrueBrain> FlySpray (bug-tracker) will be unavailable for a few minutes 12:47:56 <Xaroth|Work> OH NOES 12:47:58 <Xaroth|Work> the server is down! 12:48:10 <TrueBrain> @kick Xaroth|Work sod off 12:48:10 *** Xaroth|Work was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [sod off] 12:48:13 <TrueBrain> :D 12:48:23 *** Xaroth|Work [~XarothAtW@00017153.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:48:27 <TrueBrain> wb! 12:48:28 <Xaroth|Work> how rude 12:48:29 <TrueBrain> where did you go? 12:48:38 <TrueBrain> FlySpray is back on its feet 12:48:51 <wito> Yay! 12:48:55 <wito> I solved it! 12:49:06 <wito> Turns out Osaka actually was missing glyphs. 12:52:47 <andythenorth> :) 12:57:21 <andythenorth> hmm 12:57:51 <wito> Where is the mono font used? 12:57:55 <TrueBrain> and ... the wiki will be out playing for a bit 12:58:04 <Alberth> wito: probably the readme 12:58:11 <Alberth> of newgrfs 12:59:27 <andythenorth> ha ha 12:59:29 <wito> Bingo 12:59:45 <andythenorth> ctrl-drag a train to the groups panel in the train list 12:59:47 <andythenorth> who knew? 12:59:55 <andythenorth> thatâs a lot better than the alternative 13:01:47 <TrueBrain> and welcome back wiki 13:02:37 * andythenorth wonders about scaling station rating by era 13:02:52 <andythenorth> to account for slow vehicles 13:05:35 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:07:44 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-108-6-12-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 13:09:42 <supermop> morning 13:10:36 <planetmaker> o/ 13:11:01 <TrueBrain> almost done: all VCSes we host will be unreachable for ~5 minutes 13:14:32 <supermop> sounds like real work is going on 13:14:42 <supermop> hi planetmaker 13:19:08 <wito> Out of interest, what happened to random seeds in generating maps for single player? 13:19:10 <TrueBrain> and all VCSes are back on their feet too 13:19:19 <TrueBrain> the auto-boot didnt work on that machine, interesting .. 13:22:00 <frosch123> wito: it was made console-only 13:22:31 <wito> Well, I was more thinking 'why?' 13:23:23 <frosch123> because noone knows a valid usecase 13:24:20 <wito> I see. 13:26:05 <TrueBrain> all HTTP connections will be aborted and HTTP will be unavailable for ~10 minutes to openttd.org (for all services) 13:26:38 <andythenorth> hmm 13:28:20 <andythenorth> how can I make the station building UI panel always open on left of screen, not center? 13:29:26 <andythenorth> because it fills the screen centered, it always obscures the map area where Iâm trying to build 13:29:50 <TrueBrain> turn your screen 90 degrees; it will drop down to the left of your screen that way :D 13:30:26 * andythenorth tried it 13:30:28 <andythenorth> didnât work :( 13:30:32 <TrueBrain> awh :( 13:30:51 <andythenorth> all that happened is everything went weird and hard to read 13:30:54 <andythenorth> is that a bug? 13:31:07 <andythenorth> like, the writing went vertically 13:31:11 <andythenorth> is that expected? 13:31:14 <TrueBrain> wuth?! Omg :( 13:31:17 <TrueBrain> your screen is broken! 13:31:33 <wito> You could try setting the rotation settings as well. 13:31:38 <wito> Set the screen to vertical. 13:32:02 <wito> I don't know how well OpenTTD would actually work at 1080x1920, but it's worth a shot. 13:32:06 <andythenorth> ha 13:32:12 <andythenorth> I donât have that setting :P 13:32:14 <TrueBrain> as well as it works at 1920x1080 :) 13:32:59 <andythenorth> hmm, where are vehicle physics, or what should I search for? 13:33:08 * andythenorth thinks RVs have broken physics somehow 13:33:48 <TrueBrain> all HTTP should be restored now 13:33:53 <TrueBrain> only 7 minutes, dammit 13:33:56 <TrueBrain> I had 3 more minutes 13:34:33 <TrueBrain> I will have to do the same for all TCP/IP connections later today, but lets first take a break :) 13:34:45 <andythenorth> @seen Terkhen 13:34:45 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: Terkhen was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 1 day, 21 hours, 57 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <Terkhen> hello 13:34:50 <TrueBrain> its funny, all information is now received by MachA, forwarded to MachB to be processed, and then returned to MachA :D 13:34:52 <andythenorth> oh heâs in the channel :) 13:34:53 <TrueBrain> I love networking :) 13:35:03 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: what could go wrong? o_O 13:35:04 <andythenorth> nothing 13:35:32 <TrueBrain> I don't expect any issues with that move 13:35:45 <TrueBrain> but first I am going to give it some time to make sure nothing is broken as it is now :) 14:06:05 <andythenorth> does double-click on title bar do anything? 14:06:11 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-73-050.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:06:11 <andythenorth> and could it windowshade? o_O 14:08:03 <frosch123> scrollwheel does shade iirc 14:09:01 <andythenorth> so it does :) 14:09:02 <andythenorth> thanks 14:09:08 <andythenorth> "free featuresâ 14:09:33 <andythenorth> hmm, could station building UI have shade? 14:10:04 <frosch123> it's a picker window, so i guess no 14:11:33 <andythenorth> nvm :P 14:11:40 * andythenorth will keep dragging that window around 14:36:05 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has joined #openttd 14:48:14 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-73-050.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 14:56:11 <planetmaker> building FIRS tags seems to work again 14:57:10 <andythenorth> yay 14:57:41 <andythenorth> hmm 14:58:52 <andythenorth> so what is the correct method to get cdist to assign more cargo to a destination? 15:01:47 <andythenorth> maybe I have to spam another train at the route 15:03:49 <andythenorth> hmm no, the new train just sits waiting 15:04:55 <andythenorth> maybe if I force it to run the route? 15:09:29 <andythenorth> nah 15:10:04 <andythenorth> maybe I donât use full load? 15:12:02 <andythenorth> nah 15:16:59 *** Ttech [~ttech@00014919.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Este é o fim.] 15:18:04 <andythenorth> hmm 15:18:07 <andythenorth> well 15:18:12 <andythenorth> I am out of ideas :P 15:21:01 <andythenorth> what am I doing wrong? 15:26:29 *** Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has joined #openttd 15:26:45 <fonsinchen> andythenorth: The demand is calculated independently of capacity. That's the whole point of it. 15:27:03 <andythenorth> yay fonsinchen :) 15:27:08 <andythenorth> hi 15:27:12 <fonsinchen> If you disable influence of distance zou should get roughly equal demand for each destination 15:27:20 <fonsinchen> Not for each intermediate hop, though. 15:27:39 <fonsinchen> roughly means subject to accuracy 15:27:51 <fonsinchen> hi 15:28:05 <andythenorth> I have accuracy at 64, is that relatively high or low? 15:28:24 <andythenorth> also I have 1 day for recalculation, recalculating every 2 days, with distance at 0% 15:28:57 <fonsinchen> It will try to slice every supply into 64 chunks and distribute each of them independently (I think) 15:29:37 <fonsinchen> So if you have a supply of 64k it can be 1k off for some destination. 15:29:43 <andythenorth> hmm 15:29:47 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:30:24 <andythenorth> maybe thatâs a clue 15:30:45 <fonsinchen> but you better check demands.cpp and mcf.cpp for the details 15:31:05 <fonsinchen> I think I'm using the accuracy in multiple places and that may not be the whole story 15:31:30 <fonsinchen> also there is of course a minimum amount of 1 for each chunk. 15:31:48 <fonsinchen> Which in fact introduces more inaccuracy for small supplies. 15:32:50 <andythenorth> so the problem I have: secondary industry with station A, and two identical trains, one running A-B, the other running A-C, both with full-load orders. Distances A-B and A-C are near enough equal. Route A-C simply gets no cargo assigned at all, the planned view shows none is ever planned. But the link graph shows a link set up, unused. 15:33:04 <andythenorth> I have seen this numerous times now in games 15:33:13 <andythenorth> but *only* at secondary industries, not at primary 15:33:25 <fonsinchen> Show me a savegame and I can probably tell you the reason. 15:33:34 <andythenorth> yeah, my savegame has unreleased grfs :( 15:33:39 <andythenorth> but I could zip them happily? 15:33:45 <fonsinchen> fine with me 15:34:28 <andythenorth> wondering if this is somehow due to the way secondary industries move cargo to the station 15:34:36 * andythenorth zips the save anyway 15:35:46 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 15:36:22 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 15:41:39 <andythenorth> fonsinchen: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7468/cdist-oddity.zip 15:41:52 <andythenorth> there are two unreleased grfs in there, everything else is on bananas 15:42:00 * andythenorth hopes he got the right versions :P 15:44:26 <andythenorth> the station that is puzzling me is Sillyweed Valley, it wonât plan any cargo for Riddleweed 15:45:00 <andythenorth> I added a train, ran both the trains the length of the route, removed full load orders, ran the trains again, put the full load orders back 15:45:02 <fonsinchen> It should find grfs if I put them in .openttd/newgrf, right? ... 15:45:06 <andythenorth> should work 15:45:14 <andythenorth> I also waited plenty of time for the linkgraph to update 15:45:48 <andythenorth> there was some cargo routed in 1904 or so on that route, because the train had profit and the link graph showed green for âsaturatedâ 15:47:14 <andythenorth> umm 15:47:22 <andythenorth> EKeyboardAndChair? 15:47:43 <andythenorth> fonsinchen: ^ stupid user 15:48:33 * fonsinchen got it loaded now 15:48:46 <andythenorth> itâs goods 15:48:50 <andythenorth> and the town stopped accepting 15:49:04 <andythenorth> and I didnât check that because the issue looked like one I swear Iâve seen before 15:49:29 <andythenorth> âis it plugged in?â :( 15:49:36 <fonsinchen> Yes, riddleweed doesn't accept goods 15:50:06 <andythenorth> ok I built a hardware store, it should accept now 15:50:45 * andythenorth slightly ashamed :| 15:51:25 <fonsinchen> well, that was easy 15:51:30 <andythenorth> sorry :P 15:56:33 <andythenorth> fonsinchen: perhaps you could unconfuse me though: the calculations for vehicle capacity (e.g. in LinkRefresher() etc), are they used to assign cargo, or just to show the edge saturation in the linkgraph? 15:57:25 <andythenorth> I would like to be able to update the wiki page, because it seems that there is confusion about whether cdist actually assigns cargo in proportion to capacity, or not 16:08:29 <andythenorth> AIUI, if distance effect is 0%, for asymmetric distributiion, the cargo will be routed in the ratio 1/number-of-destinations, with a bit of noise and inaccuracy 16:08:41 <andythenorth> but I donât know if that is correct 16:53:06 <fonsinchen> andythenorth: Cargodist should not take capacity into account when calculating the demands. That's where it determines how much cargo should go to which destination 16:54:11 <fonsinchen> When it calculates the flows it tries to satisfy all the demands equally well. That is a second source of inaccuracy, so you might not get a perfect 1/n or even a fixed error of at most accuracy 16:54:38 <fonsinchen> Errors can happen when calculating the demands and when assigning the flows, but the capacity should not play a systematic role there. 16:55:26 <fonsinchen> andythenorth: The link refresher IIRC is for determining the capacity in the first place 16:58:20 <fonsinchen> Yes, given a vehicle consist with an order list and a current position the LinkRefresher will figure out which links the consist is going to visit in the future and set the capacities on those links to something greater than 0 16:58:39 <fonsinchen> So that if it is waiting for full load it doesn't wait forever. 17:01:37 <fonsinchen> andythenorth: That is link capacity, not vehicle capacity. 17:03:10 <fonsinchen> And when it assigns the flows, it will of course try to route the predetermined demand across links with enough capacity. So it does take capacity into account there, but it won't change the demand when doing so. It will rather overload the links. 17:04:04 <fonsinchen> That's what I meant when I said "Not for each intermediate hop" above. 17:32:02 <andythenorth> thanks :) 17:32:18 <andythenorth> and if distance effect is 0%, does anything else affect demand for asymmetric routing? 17:32:22 <andythenorth> or is it all flat? 17:33:36 <fonsinchen> It should be flat, except for inaccuracy. 17:34:00 <andythenorth> I will try and update the wiki page to explain this :) 17:34:19 <fonsinchen> I removed that effect where it counted the acceptance number, by popular demand... 17:34:22 <andythenorth> there is small repetitive FUD that link capacity somehow influences demand and routing 17:34:36 <andythenorth> maybe for historical reasons, or misunderstanding 17:35:03 <fonsinchen> I've always made very clear that this is not what I want to happen 17:35:15 <fonsinchen> Well, routing of course 17:35:18 <fonsinchen> but not demand 17:36:06 <fonsinchen> And there may be a bug somewhere, but in order to figure that out I need a savegame showing the behavior 17:36:18 <andythenorth> ok, so yes, my savegame earlier was useless :) 17:36:46 <andythenorth> I will try and reproduce the issue in this game 17:36:58 <andythenorth> or itâs a non-issue 18:15:59 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 18:18:30 * andythenorth thinking how to update https://wiki.openttd.org/Passenger_and_cargo_distribution 18:21:11 <andythenorth> so given routes A-B-C and A-D-C, link capacity would influence the ratio that cargo is routed via B or D. But the capacity on those links would not in any way affect how much cargo is routed A-E. The only factor on proportion of cargo with final destination as C and E is demand (currently modulated only by distance). Is this accurate, if I write a better version of it in the wiki? 18:25:09 <peter1138> ospf or bgp 18:29:11 <andythenorth> âcount-to-infinity problemâ :P 18:29:25 * andythenorth just learnt more about networking routing than he needed 18:29:48 <frosch123> [20:29] <andythenorth> âcount-to-infinity problemâ :P <- you are lucky if it is countable? :p 18:29:54 <andythenorth> oh no 18:30:02 <andythenorth> there is an equivalent of Godwinâs law in our office 18:30:20 <andythenorth> which states that if any developers start discussing countable and uncountable infinitity 18:30:25 <andythenorth> everyone else can go home 18:36:31 <fonsinchen> andythenorth: Pretty much correct if you're talking about asymmetric. 18:36:48 <fonsinchen> Otherwise the supply on the other side also influences demand. 18:36:49 <andythenorth> yup I am 18:37:37 * andythenorth wonders if there _should_ be a split on the distance-demand factor, handling pax/mail separately from other cargos 18:38:58 <fonsinchen> Does anyone but andythenorth use cargodist for anything but pax and mail? 18:39:01 *** roidal_ [~roland@62-46-140-15.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2] 18:39:06 <fonsinchen> ;) 18:41:13 <fonsinchen> If you look at the network servers you'll note that it seems to be pretty popular to use asymmetric for pax and mail. I'm always wondering why. 18:41:54 <andythenorth> misunderstandings? 18:42:23 <andythenorth> not using cdist is silly imo :P 18:42:36 <andythenorth> how can we make it better if we donât use it? 18:42:41 * andythenorth back in his box 18:42:52 <fonsinchen> Misunderstandings on several servers for months? 18:42:56 <frosch123> imigration is popular right now, so they likely consider asymmetric more realistic :p 18:43:50 <fonsinchen> frosch123 said he R word. Kick him! 18:43:59 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: ^ 18:44:03 <fonsinchen> s/he/teh 18:44:19 <frosch123> what? it's too early in the year to use the S word! 18:44:24 <andythenorth> I havenât tried asymmetric for pax, wouldnât have considered it 18:44:37 <frosch123> also, it's belugas' job :) 18:45:11 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:45:14 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:45:41 * andythenorth wonders what difference symmetric pax will make 18:45:49 <andythenorth> small towns might get more incoming cargo than currently 18:46:00 <andythenorth> perhaps stations will block less with pax for large cities 18:47:07 <andythenorth> âbut itâs unrealisticâ :P 18:48:12 * andythenorth wonders wtf the demand will look like for asymmetric pax in a highly-connected pax network 18:48:21 <fonsinchen> peter1138: The interesting thing about the classical routing algorithms is that they are inherently distributed. They expect each node to have its own CPU and nobody to have global knowledge. 18:48:24 <andythenorth> with distance currently set to 0 18:48:36 <fonsinchen> In openttd we have only one CPU and global knowledge 18:49:31 * andythenorth waits for âplannedâ to update at some stations in cities 18:49:40 <fonsinchen> andythenorth: All stations get the same amount of pax, no matter if they are in the center of a city or in a small village. 18:50:05 <fonsinchen> Maybe that's the whole point, relaxing the situation of bus stops in city centers. 18:50:20 <andythenorth> so âplannedâ values should be similar for all destinations with asymmetric + distance 0? 18:50:24 * andythenorth testing 18:50:33 <fonsinchen> yes 18:57:22 <TrueBrain> @kick andythenorth begging for a kick; sure thing :D 18:57:22 *** andythenorth was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [begging for a kick; sure thing :D] 18:57:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:57:41 <andythenorth> such lol 18:57:49 <TrueBrain> or did I misunderstand the conversation? :D :D :P 18:58:01 <TrueBrain> <3 andy 19:00:12 <andythenorth> I see no misunderstanding here 19:00:20 <frosch123> TrueBrain: what did you expect from an admistrator? 19:00:41 <frosch123> (i am bad with english puns, so i made a german) 19:01:11 <frosch123> uhm, i meant to direct that to andy :p 19:01:41 <andythenorth> itâs ok, itâs all net the same 19:01:43 <TrueBrain> I think you failed there :D 19:01:49 <frosch123> yup :) 19:01:50 <andythenorth> I got kicked, you messaged the wrong person 19:01:54 <andythenorth> balances 19:01:58 <andythenorth> ying-yang 19:02:23 <TrueBrain> :D 19:03:01 <frosch123> for some reason i was only kicked once from this channel. and in that case i kicked myself while trying to outsmart glx' script by attaching NBSP to banned words, and the script being smarter :) 19:03:07 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p57BD56E0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:03:18 <glx> hehe 19:03:27 *** [1]sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 19:03:37 *** smoke_fumus|2 [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 19:05:20 *** innocenat_ [sid8070@id-8070.ealing.irccloud.com] has joined #openttd 19:05:53 *** Arveen2 [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 19:06:07 <TrueBrain> you know that is easily fixed right? 19:06:19 <TrueBrain> or was that an open invite? 19:07:27 <andythenorth> eh, so symmetric pax, the planned amounts have levelled now 19:07:32 *** wito_ [~wito@totlandweb.info] has joined #openttd 19:07:34 * andythenorth watches the beast to see what it does next 19:07:39 *** snorre [~snorre@158-77-8.connect.netcom.no] has joined #openttd 19:07:52 *** argoneus_ [~argoneus@argoneus.com] has joined #openttd 19:08:05 *** jonty-co1p [~jonty@voyager.jontysewell.net] has joined #openttd 19:08:08 *** Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> graviton.oftc.net quits: KouDy, argoneus, jonty-comp, snorre_, DDR, innocenat, Flippy, Arveen, Guest643, smoke_fumus, (+9 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 19:08:08 *** [1]sim-al2 is now known as sim-al2 19:08:12 *** innocenat_ is now known as innocenat 19:08:15 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@250-193-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 19:08:26 *** Netsplit over, joins: KouDy 19:08:33 <cursarion> hmm 19:08:47 <cursarion> does 1.5.2 support a custom number for river generation? 19:08:48 *** Xaroth is now known as Guest1585 19:08:48 *** innocenat is now known as Guest1587 19:09:10 <cursarion> I sometimes find (in 1.5.0) that the "Few" option produces too many rivers for my taste 19:09:13 <andythenorth> * asymmetric pax 19:09:19 <cursarion> and that's the lowest option above None 19:09:24 <andythenorth> eh, all my pax trams are suddenly making money now 19:09:27 <andythenorth> which makes sense 19:09:40 <Wolf01> cursarion, there are only 2 options: none and insane 19:09:49 <andythenorth> they were routed to outlying stations which only supply 8 pax or so / month 19:09:57 <andythenorth> feeding the central station in the sity 19:09:59 <andythenorth> city * 19:10:12 <andythenorth> symmetric was killing them 19:10:59 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@c7815BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #openttd 19:11:03 *** jinks [~jinks@2602:ffe8:102:213::1c:34ac] has joined #openttd 19:11:12 *** dustinm` [~dustinm`@105.ip-167-114-152.net] has joined #openttd 19:11:16 *** Flippy [flippy@2a02:25b0:aaaa:5da:349:b7b6:5703:edf0] has joined #openttd 19:12:08 *** Pulec [~pulec@2a01:4f8:110:1463:127::2] has joined #openttd 19:12:16 <cursarion> Wolf01: pff 19:13:32 *** Arveen2 is now known as Arveen 19:13:55 <frosch123> cursarion: increase roughness 19:16:03 <cursarion> what exactly does it to, besides that? 19:16:26 <frosch123> it should add more slopes and make it harder to spawn rivers 19:16:44 <Wolf01> also it makes harder to build everything 19:18:56 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 19:19:50 <andythenorth> cargo flow overlay is neat 19:21:59 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@71.12.36.79] has joined #openttd 19:23:00 <andythenorth> eh, but where do all these pax go? 19:23:09 <andythenorth> Iâm dropping them off, and they just disappear 19:23:18 <andythenorth> 80 arrive, only 2 get back on 19:24:11 <frosch123> they were on a bicycle vacation, and used the train home because it started raining 19:24:23 <andythenorth> good answer 19:24:42 <andythenorth> eh symmetric / asymmetric pax 19:24:47 <andythenorth> itâs tomato / tomato 19:24:51 <andythenorth> or tomato / potato 19:24:53 <andythenorth> :P 19:25:16 <andythenorth> one makes low-population towns harder to serve economically 19:25:27 <andythenorth> the other has a weird disconnect with the R word 19:25:36 <frosch123> we are still waiting for tb to make a "tomato" feature 19:26:13 <frosch123> you can't imagine how hard we tried to find a name for gamescripts, that could be abbreviated to tomato :) 19:26:27 <andythenorth> ha 19:26:47 <Wolf01> try with ketchup 19:27:28 <frosch123> i am not a ketchup fan 19:29:48 <andythenorth> valid reason for a kick 19:31:04 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-108-6-12-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:34:15 *** jonty-co1p is now known as jonty-comp 19:38:49 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 19:43:00 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d008065.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 19:44:55 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:45:46 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:06 * andythenorth sets mail to asymmetric 19:46:13 <andythenorth> lots of spam by post :P 19:49:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6C0C.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:50:05 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 19:53:34 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:08 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:55:35 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 20:10:41 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 20:30:38 <TrueBrain> lol @ tomato :D 20:30:45 <TrueBrain> (a bit slow, but meh :P) 20:37:34 <peter1138> bah 20:41:19 <andythenorth> yes 20:46:36 <peter1138> now i really don't know what to get 20:49:19 <TrueBrain> Bitcoin as ingame currency ... 20:49:32 <TrueBrain> every day of gametime the exchange rate changes? 20:49:34 <TrueBrain> :D 20:49:47 <TrueBrain> how will you pay up till 20.. 14? 20:49:57 <TrueBrain> (random forum threads) 20:50:45 * andythenorth saw them 20:50:57 <andythenorth> specials 20:51:03 <Xaroth|Work> lol 20:54:28 <peter1138> dare i look 20:56:33 <Xaroth|Work> I'm amazed you don't already have a patch for that, peter1138 20:57:55 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-73-050.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 20:58:20 <andythenorth> he lost it 21:02:03 <Eddi|zuHause> well, we could introduce fractional exchange rates 21:02:22 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:02:47 <Eddi|zuHause> since it is only for display purposes, it could even use floats 21:04:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you just need to adapt all the display routines for a decimal value, and devise a system of determining how many digits to display 21:05:09 <Eddi|zuHause> (the latter could also be useful for currently really big numbers, honestly) 21:08:52 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d083864.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 21:17:48 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18F92.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:41 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:22:04 *** Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 21:22:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:25:27 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:28:52 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:34:59 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-108-6-12-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 21:52:08 *** Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:15:12 *** smoke_fumus|2 [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:20:27 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:20:22 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-108-6-12-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:30 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1613 23:23:32 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 23:29:30 *** Guest1613 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:34:40 <Wolf01> 'night 23:34:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:50:13 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd