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07:18:43 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:47:37 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 08:17:30 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:49:20 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 08:52:58 <frosch123> hoi 08:58:37 *** Samu has joined #openttd 08:58:41 <Samu> hi 09:30:09 <Alberth> hola 09:32:44 *** Gja has joined #openttd 09:35:58 *** Progman has quit IRC 10:31:30 <Milek7_> hm 10:31:45 <Milek7_> in squirrel assigning variable copies object or creates reference to it? 10:32:46 <Alberth> objects? always a reference 11:33:47 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 11:53:06 *** OsteHove` has joined #openttd 11:54:02 *** OsteHovel has quit IRC 12:07:36 *** Alberth has left #openttd 12:27:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 12:27:41 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 12:38:10 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 13:12:45 <Samu> 5 of 6 ai tests completed, waiting for AIAI aircraft to reach 2051 13:13:14 <Samu> AIAI v97 performed worse than v95 with road vehicles and trains 13:37:42 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 13:37:50 <Milek7_> it is possible in newgrf to read and perform math on vehicle properties set by other newgrf? 13:38:11 <Milek7_> for example shift every vehicle introduction date by 10 years 13:39:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 13:45:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 13:45:47 <Samu> Kogut crash reports are so short 13:46:10 <Samu> quote: "crash" 13:59:34 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 14:00:18 <Samu> nice, new RoadAI version on banana server 14:00:37 <Samu> time to test 14:12:12 *** CR7 has joined #openttd 14:13:17 *** TOMAS has joined #openttd 14:14:46 <Samu> started testing RoadAI 14:47:29 *** Arveen has quit IRC 14:55:45 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you can only check for presence of another newgrf, not what's in it 14:57:36 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 14:57:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 14:57:43 <Alberth> hi hi 15:03:17 *** Progman has joined #openttd 15:53:54 <Samu> I bet Grimes plays Path of Exile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQLvqvLvUIY 15:54:18 <Samu> there's even a song named Belly of the Beat 16:05:01 <Samu> there's a labyrinth garden, a door, a library, ruins, a mountain... call me crazy, but too much coincidence 16:05:31 <Samu> oh yeah.. statues, statues everywhere 16:06:00 <Samu> even a coliseum 16:06:10 <Samu> meh, nobody here cares :( 16:08:33 <Samu> even a lake 16:18:07 <Samu> woah, mirrors too 16:23:33 <Samu> if AIAI aircraft doesn't crash, then he's gonna beat AdmiralAI 16:23:55 <Samu> still 25 years away from goal and already ahead in company value 16:32:22 <Samu> https://youtu.be/DQLvqvLvUIY?t=2251 that settles it, statues! she plays poe 16:38:57 *** keoz has quit IRC 17:03:02 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 17:03:10 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:03:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:03:20 <Wolf01> It's a-me Wolfo! 17:03:46 <Alberth> hihi 17:06:09 <Wolf01> Pc is back from hospital, with a provisional motherboard, courtesy of the shop 17:09:02 <Eddi|zuHause> shouldn't it better be "wolfio"? 17:09:47 <Wolf01> As you want 17:11:09 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could do "WolfOI" :p 17:11:46 <Wolf01> Mmmmh, how do I update a git project from VS? 17:12:07 <Wolf01> Oh, found it 17:12:13 <Eddi|zuHause> VS knows about versioning now? 17:12:17 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 17:12:20 <Wolf01> In team explorer... fetch or pull? 17:12:31 <Wolf01> Yes, it does 17:12:53 <Wolf01> And does that so automagically I never noticed it until it asked for the password 17:13:28 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 17:15:32 <glx> there's a git plugin yes 17:15:54 <Wolf01> I think I don't even installed it 17:16:41 <Wolf01> I just opened a project from a git checkout and VS added it on the team explorer 17:17:08 <Alberth> smart software :p 17:18:12 <Alberth> git fetch just gets stuff from remote, pull also tries to merge it 17:18:46 <Alberth> always so useful to have hg od it just the other way around :p 17:18:51 <Alberth> *do 17:20:44 <Samu> what happened to your pc 17:21:22 <Wolf01> Poltergeist 17:29:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that 17:29:33 <Eddi|zuHause> 's basically why i never got warm with git, it uses all the wrong names for things 17:30:03 <Milek7_> i never used hg 17:31:36 <Eddi|zuHause> hg provides a much more natural/intuitive transition from svn, naming-convention-wise 17:31:45 <Wolf01> How do I set min_active_clients for a savegame in multiplayer? 17:32:10 <frosch123> pretty sure that's no savegame setting 17:32:16 <frosch123> so, set it on the server 17:32:30 <Wolf01> It doesn't give a fuck if I set it from console/openttd.cfg, when I load the save it starts 17:33:58 <Eddi|zuHause> when you try to learn git with svn background, you get a "why would they call it X when it does Y" feeling with every. single. command. 17:34:05 <Wolf01> Uhm, it can be that I'm hosting from client? 17:34:18 <Wolf01> And that only works with dedicated 17:34:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's only for dedicated 17:34:33 *** funnel has quit IRC 17:35:20 <Eddi|zuHause> (and even if it's not, the non-dedicated server counts as a client) 17:35:39 <frosch123> what if you join spectators? 17:36:03 *** funnel has joined #openttd 17:36:11 <Wolf01> I set 0 spectators, I need to rehost, but I'm doing it with dedicated now 17:36:48 <Eddi|zuHause> combine that "wtf" with every command with a community that when you ask "how do i do X" they don't tell you "do Y" but "you need to learn the basics" 17:37:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and your enthusiasm to learn git once and for all drops to 0 17:37:32 <Wolf01> True that, Eddi 17:39:03 <Milek7_> i can't imagine how some projects are still using svn 17:39:06 <Milek7_> it is terrible 17:39:56 <Alberth> it's an order of magnitude simpler than any distributed VCS 17:40:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure still the majority of projects don't use versioning at all 17:40:11 <frosch123> if not two magnitudes 17:40:53 <Alberth> distributed VCS is about the biggest gun you can find to solve the versioning problem 17:40:57 <frosch123> anything that requires merging first requires to learn about whitespace 17:44:01 <Alberth> and big guns come with big problems to handle 18:10:43 <Eddi|zuHause> well, if you're american, you might come with a mindset that ignores problems with guns :p 18:11:26 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you mean "the gun is not the problem, but the solution" 18:11:40 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 18:11:58 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: more like "if guns don't solve your problem, you're not using enough of them" 18:22:58 <Alberth> git does come with a model of how you should work, if you try to use it without the model it breaks badly 18:23:36 <Alberth> and it has a horrible user interface, although if you just stick to the simple elementary subset, it doesn't bother you much 18:23:49 <Alberth> except some stuff is a bit longwinded to do 18:25:01 <Milek7_> can command line tool can have user interface? :p 18:27:17 <Alberth> the command line is the user interface 18:28:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, there can be bad and good command line interfaces 18:28:14 <Alberth> it's fully correct in the technical sense, but total crap from a HCI 18:28:56 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, which makes it completely inaccessible from a non-technical approach 18:31:10 <Alberth> if you ignore the over-engineered bits, it's not so bad, the sequence of commands are just a bit longer :p 18:31:29 <Alberth> but it's not svn-like or hg-like at all 18:32:30 <Alberth> I am suspecting they deliberately picked different names for everything to avoid people trying to use git as a svn/hg system 18:32:57 <Alberth> which is not so bad, the system is really different 18:34:47 <Alberth> the big difference is that you can also have remote repos locally 18:35:03 <Alberth> they just have different labels 18:36:53 <Alberth> s/can// even, you have that as soon as you want to do anything with a remote repo 18:37:23 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 18:44:40 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:45:03 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 18:50:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a new project i'll never do: program a tool called "tig" that operates on the git data structures with a sane comman naming 18:50:45 <Eddi|zuHause> +d 18:51:46 <Wolf01> <Milek7_> can command line tool can have user interface? :p <- I made a web interface for SVN 18:53:23 <Wolf01> It was used to create the repositories and update the working copies on the staging server 18:54:11 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 18:54:18 <Milek7_> Eddi|zuHause: what's wrong with git command names? 18:55:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Milek7_: what's wrong with callind a table a chair, a boot a table, and a cell phone a modem? 18:55:33 <Wolf01> ^_^ 18:56:02 <Alberth> there are a couple of git-rename command projects :) 18:56:49 <Wolf01> In git you make a checkout with clone, and a... I don't even know what with checkout 18:56:49 <Alberth> but obviously they all break on the different model that git uses 18:57:03 <Milek7_> change branch 18:57:21 <Milek7_> or switch to specific commit 18:57:27 <Alberth> what you expect to do with git branch, but you can't 18:57:38 <glx> easier to just use github application ;) 18:58:29 <Eddi|zuHause> what i always meant to ask: is there an official way to pronounce the "g" in "git"? 18:58:33 <Alberth> yeah, it's so bad people actually layer a tool on top of it to avoid using the command line 18:58:54 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 18:59:00 <Eddi|zuHause> or is that like "gif" where there are two groups that are of opposite opinion and totally despise each other? 18:59:09 <Alberth> no doubt linus has an asnwer to that 18:59:10 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 18:59:44 <Wolf01> SVN uses checkout, update and switch (to branch/tag), the commands seem pretty explainatory to me, with git, I fail to do a checkout 2 times every 3 18:59:59 <Alberth> I find it a non-issue, as whatever you pronounce it, you still type "g" 19:00:43 <Eddi|zuHause> what i find weird is that my internal pronunciation of "git" and "gif" are not the same 19:01:00 <Alberth> Wolf01: don't try to push a svn or hg model onto git, it doesn't work 19:01:03 <Wolf01> I'm the only one which can read it different based on why writes it? (yes, I'm weird) 19:01:13 <Alberth> git has its own logic, separate from everything else 19:01:14 <Wolf01> *who 19:01:16 <Eddi|zuHause> by "internal" i mean the "sound" i make in my head while typing 19:01:41 <Alberth> well, perhaps the same as "apt-get" which I also constantly fail to understand 19:02:41 <Milek7_> apt is the worst packaging system that exists 19:03:03 <Wolf01> May I say NuGet? 19:03:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Milek7_: how is that statement different from "git is the worst versioning system that exists"? 19:03:41 <Eddi|zuHause> or "C++ is the worst programming language that exists"? 19:03:59 <glx> I'm with Wolf01 on NuGet :) 19:04:26 <Wolf01> No Eddi, that's PHP 19:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i don't think i ever used apt-get, and i have never heard of NuGet, which is probably understandable given the first fact 19:05:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: well, sure, but that's not stopping people making a statement like this :p 19:06:33 <Alberth> Milek7_: I think it's technically fully correct, the UI is just total crap 19:07:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: which is exactly what you said about git earlier :p 19:07:42 <Alberth> but some techies don't care about anybody but themselves 19:08:00 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I see a lot of parallels between both systems :) 19:08:32 *** Ethereal_Whisper has quit IRC 19:08:42 <Alberth> underlying technology is leading in the UI 19:08:53 <Alberth> instead of designing it from the top down 19:09:18 <Milek7_> i always have problems with dependecies with apt 19:09:37 *** CR7 has quit IRC 19:09:39 <Wolf01> I see a lot of parallels between everything, as everyone has his own preferred softwares and operational methods 19:09:52 <Wolf01> For example I love Windows 10 19:09:55 <Alberth> everything is connected! :) 19:10:03 <Milek7_> something like "Depends: X but it is not going to be installed" 19:10:47 <glx> Wolf01: I have a nice UI translation fail for french in windows 10 19:10:59 <Wolf01> I usually force the install of dependencies, I don't even consider apt doing what it wants 19:13:03 <Milek7_> windows 10 have good error messages 19:13:09 <Milek7_> "something happened" 19:13:11 <Milek7_> :D 19:13:46 <Eddi|zuHause> can't beat earlier windows versions reporting "Error: No Error" 19:14:00 <glx> "update history" is translated in 2 different ways on the same page, and 1 is totally wrong 19:14:48 <Wolf01> Use the feedback tool and report it? :D 19:16:41 <glx> oh they failed at "update settings" too it seems 19:20:35 <Eddi|zuHause> how many days until i can stop caring about an election in a far away country that i have no influence on? 19:21:21 <Samu> when america becomes poor 19:22:17 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:22:28 <Eddi|zuHause> some times i wish i could put stop-word filters on news sites 19:23:50 <glx> ho the translation error is already reported it seems 19:25:35 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 19:25:51 <Wolf01> Andy was scared 19:27:28 <Eddi|zuHause> is that unusual? 19:28:17 <Wolf01> No, it's common that cats get scared for nothing 19:33:38 <Milek7_> i showed you tetris over ipv6 traceroute? 19:35:29 <Wolf01> Yes 19:35:55 <Wolf01> You or Samu did that 19:38:49 <Samu> what did i do? 19:42:20 <Samu> speaking of translations, what's happening to the portuguese translation of openttd? 19:42:34 <Samu> so many typos and missing strings lately 19:42:54 <glx> feel free to apply as a translator :) 19:43:39 <Samu> ahm... well i could try fix the most blatant errors 19:44:15 <glx> https://translator.openttd.org/ 19:45:03 <Samu> i had an account there, let's see if i remember 19:46:15 <Samu> https://translator.openttd.org/translation/openttd-trunk/pt_PT Project Portuguese (pt_PT) OpenTTD trunk Start fixing 19:46:18 <Samu> is this it? 19:46:41 <glx> yes 19:47:12 <Samu> nice, got to run openttd in portuguese again for a while 19:51:01 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:51:08 <andythenorth> seaplanes! 19:53:04 <debdog> polar bears! 19:56:24 <Wolf01> o/ 19:57:15 <andythenorth> lo 19:59:15 <Supercheese> seaplane bears? 19:59:21 <Supercheese> bearplanes? 19:59:58 <andythenorth> bearoplanes 20:00:06 <andythenorth> sea zellepins 20:01:24 <Supercheese> already have sea zeps, for servicing those oil rigs 20:02:15 <Supercheese> also: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/penaeus/L23kapertRoyalbyAdolfBock_zps95bbe2b0.jpg 20:02:19 <Supercheese> sea zeppelin 20:04:00 *** ConductorCat has joined #openttd 20:07:28 <Wolf01> Mmmh, dedcated server stuck at "starting game" 20:10:03 <Samu> gs? 20:10:12 <Wolf01> No 20:10:15 <Samu> some gs's take time to launch :( 20:10:35 <andythenorth> zellepin of the sea 20:10:36 *** ConductCat has quit IRC 20:10:40 <andythenorth> Cat is gone 20:10:59 <goodger> prrrb 20:16:36 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:22:52 <Wolf01> Firewall says OTTD is using port 2780 to advertise on master server, shouldn't it be 3978? 20:23:21 <Eddi|zuHause> needs more context 20:23:35 <Wolf01> Can't advertise on master server 20:23:46 <Wolf01> NAT ok, firewall ok 20:23:48 <Alberth> @ports 20:23:49 <DorpsGek> Alberth: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 20:24:06 <Alberth> nn 20:24:12 <Wolf01> nn 20:24:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you can usually ignore outgoing ports 20:24:25 <glx> master server listen on 3978 20:24:44 <Eddi|zuHause> firewalls usually don't care about those 20:24:44 <glx> but it can be any port on your machine :) 20:25:19 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, for outgoing communication, source port is random 20:25:44 <Wolf01> I forwarded ports from 3977 to 3979 to the server IP (I moved it to another machine, here it worked) 20:26:17 <Eddi|zuHause> you forwarded both TCP and UDP? 20:26:22 <Wolf01> Yes 20:26:42 <glx> master server must be able to reach your server on the port your server tells it it is listening (3979 by default) 20:27:30 <Wolf01> I know that 20:27:33 <Eddi|zuHause> when you say "here it worked", were you running the server on the router before? 20:28:17 <Wolf01> I have 2 pc, and I want to use the other one for dedicated server, as it's always on 20:28:20 *** ConductorCat has quit IRC 20:28:43 <Eddi|zuHause> and from where to where are you redirecting the route? 20:29:01 <Wolf01> On this pc I'm on now, I used to run the UI client to host the game 20:29:24 <Wolf01> Now I changed the IP on the router's NAT to point to the other pc 20:29:45 <Eddi|zuHause> for both TCP and UDP? 20:29:52 <Wolf01> Yes, everything 20:30:00 <glx> usually I just add the machine on a different port :) 20:30:10 <Eddi|zuHause> if you're sure it's not the router, it's the firewall on the server 20:30:10 <Wolf01> I think I sould do that too 20:30:33 <glx> you rebooted the router after the change ? 20:30:44 <Wolf01> The firewall on the server already allos all activity (both tcp and udp) for the entire application, doesn't matter whichc pot 20:30:46 <Wolf01> *port 20:30:57 <Wolf01> No, I didn't 20:30:58 *** Arveen has quit IRC 20:30:58 <Eddi|zuHause> rebooting should not be necessary for any sane router 20:34:01 <Wolf01> Changed back the IP to this pc, it advertises succesfully, I'm adding a new forwarding rule with different ports 20:34:42 *** Flygon has quit IRC 20:34:43 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:35:08 <Wolf01> Ok, with different ports works, so I think glx is right 20:35:15 <Wolf01> I should reboot the router 20:35:39 <glx> no need if it works on a different port :) 20:35:54 <Eddi|zuHause> just leave the different port in 20:36:13 <Wolf01> Yes, but now I know that if I change the IP I need to reboot the thing 20:36:38 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a bug 20:37:13 <Wolf01> This poor thing has 10 years and don't have updates since 2009 20:37:22 <Samu> Error: String command for position 0 is wrong, base language uses {STRING}, the translation uses {STRING1} 20:37:27 <Samu> what does that mean? 20:37:49 <Samu> Base lang string: (travel for {STRING1}, not timetabled) 20:37:59 <Samu> I don't get the error 20:38:12 <Samu> (viajar durante {STRING1}, sem programação) 20:38:45 <glx> IIRC translations can only use {STRING} 20:39:12 <Samu> but base lang got {STRING1} 20:39:24 <glx> what's the string name ? 20:39:36 <Samu> STR_TIMETABLE_AND_TRAVEL_FOR_ESTIMATED 20:39:45 <Eddi|zuHause> translations must use {STRING}, strgen will fill in the {STRINGn} from the master language (english) 20:41:29 <glx> yes only use {STRING} in translation 20:50:42 <Wolf01> Oh, lol, now the server's firewall is blocking this pc because it's thinking I'm trying to attack it on a specific port 20:51:00 <glx> stupid firewall 20:51:04 <Wolf01> Really 20:51:35 <Wolf01> And seem there isn't a way to tell it to let this ip pass no matter what 20:55:38 <Samu> how the heck do you translate things such as "Perlin noise" 20:55:49 <Wolf01> It's a name 20:56:00 <Wolf01> You don't translate names usually 20:56:14 <Wolf01> Except if you are italian 20:56:27 <glx> check how it's done on wiki ;) 20:58:02 <FLHerne> Samu: You could translate 'noise', if there's a suitable term 20:59:16 <Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> Except if you are italian <-- well, there are some examples of books that were translated into german, and it also changed place names, like "london" into "berlin" 20:59:40 <Wolf01> That's a lot of kilometers ;) 21:00:21 <glx> hehe they used to relocate anime in france in 80's 21:00:39 <Samu> Ruído de Perlin 21:00:41 <glx> changing all names 21:00:44 <Samu> lel 21:00:46 <Wolf01> Usually here they change anime chars names to something more recognisable, like Giovanni or Lucia or Mario 21:00:59 <Samu> sounds so retarded, but i'll use this 21:01:15 <Eddi|zuHause> usually, there are also later translations of the same book, with the original place names 21:01:52 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you're picking up old books, you sometimes need to make sure which version it is 21:02:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember that aldous huxley's "brave new world" was one such example 21:05:17 *** keoz has joined #openttd 21:14:50 <Samu> adviser or advisor? 21:19:36 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 21:19:39 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and there are also names which have actual translations, like Charles -> Karl, Henry -> Heinrich 21:20:39 <Eddi|zuHause> which you come across fairly often when talking about medieval kings and stuff 21:24:33 <Samu> Base lang string: Landscape: {STRING2} -> Cenário: {STRING2} Error: String command for position 0 is wrong, base language uses {STRING}, the translation uses {STRING2} 21:24:52 <Samu> i use {STRING} again? 21:26:19 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd 21:26:23 <Wolf01> Could I use the scrollto command to make a client scroll to that position? 21:27:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so, but maybe a gamescript can do that? 21:27:30 <Wolf01> It would be more useful a command on the client list 21:27:54 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:32:06 *** Eddi|zuHause has left #openttd 21:32:28 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 21:44:50 *** Gja has quit IRC 21:58:33 <glx> Samu: always use {STRING} 21:59:02 <glx> all STRINGx are STRING in translations 22:00:32 <Samu> timetable translation is too confusing without watching the final result 22:05:30 <Samu> YESH! 0 strings missing, I win 22:05:38 <Samu> was already getting bored 22:10:43 <Samu> tomorrow i'll take a better look at this translation thing 22:20:18 <Samu> AIAI aircraft server ending in 3 years :)~ 22:33:17 *** keoz has quit IRC 22:36:22 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:51:09 <Wolf01> 'night 22:51:13 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:15:39 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 23:23:04 *** ConductorCat has joined #openttd 23:26:51 <Samu> AIAI finished 23:27:11 <Samu> woah, almost doubled AdmiralAI which was the current no.1 23:56:16 <Samu> a quick fast forward game of roadai shows that the new version is performing worse t.t