Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:14 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: holy shit 00:02:15 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 00:03:28 <supermop> i knew i was being dumb, but i am surprised at just how dumb 00:03:58 <supermop> though to be fair, the name of that variable is so long, why bother saving the e 00:04:22 <Eddi|zuHause> supposedly consistency with the already existing variables 00:04:42 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno who thought this up in the first place 00:05:03 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 00:05:29 <supermop> well pikka doesn't sleep that much 00:05:58 <Pikka> only sometimes 00:08:24 <Pikka> also, no inconsistency in variable names in nfo ;) 00:09:25 <Supercheese> just hex 00:09:37 <Supercheese> so inscrutable rather than inconsistent 00:09:59 <Pikka> somewhat 00:10:48 <Eddi|zuHause> so the original curv_info variables date very very early in nml history 00:11:16 <Eddi|zuHause> commit by yexo, april 2010 00:11:30 <Supercheese> whew 00:12:56 <Eddi|zuHause> also, it's not actually an abbreviation of "curve", but "curvature" 00:23:24 <jinks> Mikro ist mal wieder sehr leise... ca. 50% der Musik 00:23:35 <Pikka> oui 00:23:47 <jinks> sorry, wrong tab :( 00:38:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 01:00:47 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:15:34 *** Compu has joined #openttd 02:32:46 *** supermop has quit IRC 03:40:40 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 03:40:57 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 05:21:41 *** Cubey has quit IRC 06:28:00 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 06:33:42 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:35:24 <andythenorth> huzzah 06:35:59 <andythenorth> Pikka: solved it all? o_O 06:36:23 <Pikka> mostly 06:38:17 <Pikka> road hogs are really expensive. :P the poor ai struggles. 06:52:26 <andythenorth> really? 06:52:31 <andythenorth> I thought I made it too cheap 06:53:02 <andythenorth> I have costs on 'medium' eh 07:07:06 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 07:07:21 <Wolf01> Moin 07:24:15 <andythenorth> lo Wolf01 07:26:45 <andythenorth> Pikka: expensive to run, or expensive to buy? 07:31:39 <Pikka> to buy, mostly. but it's being conservative about money reserves, I can loosen it up a bit 07:39:03 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 07:43:46 <andythenorth> yeah ok 07:43:53 <andythenorth> compared to Horse, Hog is expensive to buy 07:44:03 <andythenorth> train will repay within 1-2 years on a good route 07:44:21 <andythenorth> trucks are 5-10 years 07:55:42 <andythenorth> livery remap for alcohol tankers? o_O http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OHEMfVLFX3o/TpyRa9anzqI/AAAAAAAAExo/x9RvTH9OcNk/s1600/Heineken+truck.jpg 08:09:58 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:55:11 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: only if you get payment from the respective brand 09:27:57 <andythenorth> 8 year old wants ship tunnels 09:28:02 <andythenorth> he has made an extensive pitch 09:29:26 <Pikka> aircraft tunnels, doesn't it 09:31:30 <andythenorth> through mountains though 09:40:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 09:45:09 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 09:46:16 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 10:01:27 <andythenorth> quak 10:01:28 <andythenorth> etc 10:02:12 <frosch123> hoin 10:04:31 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 10:06:32 *** debdog has joined #openttd 10:18:16 <TrueBrain> hmm ... how do I get a graphics set via the command line for regression check ... 10:21:02 <TrueBrain> the GUI can, but you can't via command line? 10:21:05 <TrueBrain> what is this bullshit? :P 10:21:24 <LordAro> wget? 10:21:47 <TrueBrain> that means that I also have to figure out both the URL and the place to wget it to 10:21:57 <TrueBrain> not ideal for a Docker regression-checker :) 10:22:48 <LordAro> mm, maybe 10:22:49 <TrueBrain> and installing the openttd-opengfx via Debian is not sufficient ... lol 10:23:42 <TrueBrain> where does it expect this to be .. 10:24:39 <TrueBrain> baseset is now in /usr/share/games/openttd 10:24:41 <TrueBrain> but .. hmmmmmm 10:24:52 <TrueBrain> haha, local 10:24:53 <TrueBrain> ugh 10:27:23 <TrueBrain> I always found it weird that the game depends on gfx files in order to run 10:27:25 <TrueBrain> I know why etc etc 10:27:27 <TrueBrain> still weird :P 10:29:40 <frosch123> the win installer has some openttd.org address for download 10:29:57 <frosch123> https://www.openttd.org/en/download-opengfx 10:30:31 <frosch123> but i remember that something also used to wget nogfx 10:31:03 <frosch123> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/798/nogfx-nogfx.tar 10:31:16 <frosch123> ^^ only 270kB 10:31:41 <TrueBrain> why is that tar not something official? :) 10:31:48 <TrueBrain> but I was also puzzled where I should put that file 10:31:57 <TrueBrain> nothing really helped me in any indication wher eI could put it .. 10:32:02 <TrueBrain> been a while since I knew :P 10:32:12 <frosch123> readme 4.2 :p 10:32:16 <TrueBrain> yes .. didnt help 10:32:21 <TrueBrain> as it says: /usr/share 10:32:26 <TrueBrain> but by default, prefix is /usr/local 10:32:29 <TrueBrain> so .. yeah .... 10:32:38 <frosch123> blame lordaro 10:33:09 <TrueBrain> I would think that for dedicated servers, you could also have a command-line option that auto-downloads a gfx 10:33:11 <TrueBrain> just like the GUI 10:33:34 <frosch123> i would rather get rid of the stupid gfx requirement :) 10:33:49 <TrueBrain> works for me as well :) 10:34:01 <TrueBrain> either way, I now just installed openttd-opengfx from debian-stretch 10:34:06 <TrueBrain> and set the prefix-dir to /usr 10:34:10 <TrueBrain> now regression works 10:36:45 <TrueBrain> easiest way to get rid of it might be to include that above tar in the repo :P 10:37:16 <TrueBrain> btw, frosch123, something for another day, but after OpenTTD moves to github, we also have to move stuff like grfcodec, etc etc (the extra folder) 10:37:20 <TrueBrain> that is not in scope for me atm 10:37:27 <TrueBrain> (not sure if I already said that :P) 10:39:53 <TrueBrain> okay, all linux dockers seem to work; later today I hope to tackle OSX dockers .. 10:43:14 <LordAro> frosch123: rude 10:45:20 <andythenorth> nice TrueBrain :) 10:45:50 <TrueBrain> I also replaced zesty with something with an a 10:45:53 <TrueBrain> (17.04 -> 17.10) 10:46:26 <LordAro> if you wait a few days, you'll be able to use 18.04 LTS 10:46:48 <TrueBrain> yeah ... we just add that when it gets there :) 10:46:54 <TrueBrain> its as easy as adding an entry to Makefile :) 10:47:28 <TrueBrain> LINUX_RELEASE_TARGETS += ubuntu-<whatever>-amd64 ubuntu-<whatever>-i386 10:47:30 <TrueBrain> :P 10:47:42 <LordAro> :) 10:47:55 <TrueBrain> owh, and for autobuilds, you need to add the tag in the docker hub account .. 10:48:13 <TrueBrain> still not sure if I want to use their autobuild .. it is nice, but another place to maintain stuff .. 10:48:27 <andythenorth> how can I draw a neutral dock? 10:48:35 <andythenorth> the CHIPS one is asphalt / concrete 10:48:42 <andythenorth> and has to be used with concrete station tiles 10:48:48 <frosch123> what makes a dock neutral? 10:48:59 <TrueBrain> Austria owns it 10:49:27 <frosch123> ask wolf to return venecia then 10:49:39 <andythenorth> frosch123: looks good with all CHIPS station tiles 10:49:49 <andythenorth> and all FIRS harbour industries 10:50:07 <Wolf01> What? 10:50:21 <frosch123> Wolf01: austria needs a port 10:50:34 <Wolf01> Take Trieste 10:51:05 <LordAro> TrueBrain: Switzerland, surely? 10:51:24 <LordAro> TrueBrain: what does autobuild entail? 10:52:44 <TrueBrain> LordAro: nah, that would be to political correct 10:52:54 <TrueBrain> hub.docker can autobuild a GitHub repo into Docker images 10:52:59 <TrueBrain> so you point it to a repo with a Dockerfile 10:53:02 <TrueBrain> when-ever you push there 10:53:06 <TrueBrain> he builds a new image 10:53:30 <TrueBrain> but I guess I can just make our Bamboo do the same .. gives a bit more flexibility I guess 10:53:51 <andythenorth> maybe time for newgrf docks? 10:53:53 <TrueBrain> their autobuild also cannot do Windows .. 10:54:08 <TrueBrain> *shrug* .. not sure .. lets first get the GH migration done :) 10:59:03 <TrueBrain> Debian is cool .. they are creating 'slim' images for Docker .. removing shit you most likely won't be needing 10:59:29 <TrueBrain> I now have images < 200 MiB that can build OpenTTD 10:59:33 <TrueBrain> including all main dependencies 10:59:35 <TrueBrain> (like ICU) 10:59:51 <andythenorth> :) 11:00:01 <TrueBrain> well, more like 300 MiB 11:00:07 <TrueBrain> the ubuntu, in contrast, are 700 MiB 11:03:04 <TrueBrain> that stupid Makefile requirements that it needs tabs ... it keeps screwing me over 11:10:26 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:15:11 <LordAro> TrueBrain: tabs 4 lyfe 11:24:31 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 11:43:02 <andythenorth> Pikka: is it wagon speed limits? or not? 11:43:28 <Pikka> I think so 11:44:16 <Pikka> it's "realism", and it makes the fastest express engines not the ideal choice for literally everything 11:44:58 <andythenorth> same here 11:46:33 <Pikka> when I get around to doing industries again, I think I'll try an experimental cargo payment setting which ignores time in transit, see if that improves the game 11:46:52 <andythenorth> such industry 11:46:55 <andythenorth> 2x zoom? 11:47:02 <Pikka> TTD's time/distance payment model is dumb. faster vehicles already have an advantage in that they can make more trips, they don't need to be paid more too. 11:47:23 <Pikka> very zoom 11:47:28 <andythenorth> lawks 11:49:38 * andythenorth double tracks some canals 11:53:49 <andythenorth> should I random cabeese? 11:55:16 <andythenorth> they are all this sort of thing currently http://www.locomotionmodels.com/content/bachmann-38-551-midland-brake-van-br-grey-without-duckets~1350.jpg 11:55:24 <frosch123> add cabbage as cargo 11:55:46 <andythenorth> well 11:55:51 <andythenorth> I could 11:56:02 <andythenorth> 'Veg' is missing mostly from FIRS 11:56:08 <andythenorth> also this kind of cabeese https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/IMG_6789.jpg?preset=large 11:57:06 <andythenorth> not sure how useful random is :P 11:58:07 <andythenorth> ha ha also I deleted all the code for random graphical variants :D 12:00:30 <Pikka> brakevans kind of feel like the one thing that should be fairly consistent 12:00:47 <Pikka> unless you want to do different graphics per company, which is real BAD FEATURES 12:01:45 <andythenorth> I have 2 to choose from anyway 12:01:54 <andythenorth> maybe random sprites are blah 12:29:36 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 12:30:37 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 12:36:15 <Thedarkb-X40> I was going to build an OpenTTD package for TinyCore Linux but I couldn't get it to cooperate with Xvesa 12:37:01 <Thedarkb-X40> My TinyCore machine has no Linux graphics drivers so sacrifices must be made. 12:55:21 <Pikka> hmmmm 12:56:16 <Pikka> andythenorth, your courier trucks are confusing my AI 12:56:39 <andythenorth> oops 12:56:44 <andythenorth> what haps? 12:56:54 <Pikka> different capacities for different cargos :) 12:57:29 <andythenorth> is proper no? :P 12:57:47 <andythenorth> can I provide any hint? o_O 13:00:29 <Pikka> hmm 13:02:03 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 13:02:49 <Pikka> well, I could give it a hint... maybe make it prefer vehicles which carry goods by default 13:02:56 <Pikka> when it's looking for a big goods truck 13:06:01 <andythenorth> if default cargo is mail? o_O 13:06:03 <andythenorth> ignore? 13:06:27 <Pikka> something like that 13:10:12 <Pikka> there we go, Rattlebrooks away 13:16:18 <Wolf01> andythenorth: do you how to make a hinge which allow an active axle to pass with an angle >90°? 13:20:35 <andythenorth> Wolf01: bevel gears 13:20:58 <Wolf01> Max 90-100° 13:22:28 <andythenorth> I need non-electric trams in my game 13:22:31 <andythenorth> :( 13:23:01 <Wolf01> Draw tem without pantograph 13:23:04 <Wolf01> *them 13:24:04 <andythenorth> I need to hide the catenary 13:24:10 <Wolf01> Use NRT 13:24:16 <andythenorth> maybe I could patch to not show catenary? o_O 13:25:45 <Wolf01> Mmmh, double elbow... I will kill myself trying to get it together, but it might work 13:27:05 <andythenorth> still making robot arms? 13:28:08 <Wolf01> Yes 13:54:59 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 13:55:22 *** gelignite has quit IRC 13:58:13 <Wolf01> Double elbow won't work 14:08:59 * andythenorth lunch 14:15:11 <andythenorth> cargo loading sprites :( 14:48:20 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 14:59:54 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:01:36 *** Gja has joined #openttd 15:16:16 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 15:37:28 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:04:17 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 16:49:48 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 16:55:30 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 17:21:08 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 17:23:09 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:58:57 <Thedarkb> I'm not as good on FIRS as I'd like to be. 18:06:42 <andythenorth> ? o_O 18:08:56 <LordAro> people actually play with firs? 18:09:13 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 18:13:23 <andythenorth> at least one 18:14:36 <Thedarkb> What's wrong with FIRS 18:14:44 <Thedarkb> I used to love Heart of Darkness. 18:19:14 <Thedarkb> LordAro, What industry replacement do you recommend? 18:36:43 <LordAro> firs, probably 18:36:55 <LordAro> i haven't played in ages 18:43:59 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:14:47 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 19:20:25 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 19:22:55 *** debdog has quit IRC 19:27:51 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 19:31:05 *** cHawk has quit IRC 19:39:13 <Wolf01> So, andythenorth: I think I've finished the robotic arm. Even without motors everywhere (there's only one motor at the base) and trying to keep it light as possible it weights a lot and doesn't work really well :( 19:41:15 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 19:42:06 <andythenorth> :P 19:42:17 *** debdog has joined #openttd 19:47:13 *** debdog has quit IRC 19:51:55 *** debdog has joined #openttd 20:04:11 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 20:06:50 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 20:10:55 *** circ-user-ELLc8 has joined #openttd 20:11:08 *** circ-user-ELLc8 is now known as supermop_work 20:14:26 <supermop_work> yo 20:15:16 <andythenorth> lo mop 20:19:03 <Thedarkb> Why do previously profitable routes become unprofitable? 20:20:42 <andythenorth> inflation? 20:20:54 <andythenorth> if inflation is on, turn it off 20:20:56 <andythenorth> it's broken 20:21:22 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 20:35:41 *** Gja has quit IRC 20:36:11 *** cHawk has quit IRC 20:43:37 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:51:56 <Pikka> Chris Sawyer, master of BAD FEATURES 20:54:16 <LANJesus> lol. 21:04:07 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:04:31 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 21:05:21 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 21:12:47 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 21:19:52 <Wolf01> 'nihgt 21:19:57 <Wolf01> 'night also 21:20:01 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:41:30 *** bwn has joined #openttd 21:54:09 <Thedarkb-X40> Yeah I'll turn off inflation 21:56:37 <supermop_work_> still think it would be worth 'fixing' inflation somehow, or making it controllable by GS or new grf 21:57:27 <supermop_work_> even if revenue and costs scale 1:1, it would at least reduce the real value of giant cash piles 22:03:43 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 22:06:10 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 22:17:56 <Thedarkb-X40> Will my server re-read the openttd.cfg when it restarts in 2100? 22:20:36 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 22:20:59 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:24:45 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 22:31:12 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:42:02 <Eddi|zuHause> what i always found odd was that the bank loan interest is so low 22:42:31 <Eddi|zuHause> in games like railroad tycoon you can easily go bankrupt from maxing out your loan 22:45:45 <Thedarkb-X40> What's inflation called in the .cfg 22:45:58 <Thedarkb-X40> nvm 22:45:59 <Thedarkb-X40> found it 22:46:04 <Thedarkb-X40> Had a typo in my search 22:49:50 <Thedarkb-X40> Oh yeah, how do I turn up the connection timeout time? 22:49:53 <Thedarkb-X40> I have a slow PC 22:54:56 <Eddi|zuHause> the timeout is a server setting 23:00:11 <Thedarkb> I know, I own the server. 23:00:42 <Thedarkb-X40> Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Ubuntu "artful" 17.10 • CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.40GHz (1.30GHz) • Memory: Physical: 1.2 GiB Total (727.5 MiB Free) Swap: 945.3 MiB Total (888.2 MiB Free) • Storage: 12.3 GB / 31.8 GB (19.5 GB Free) • VGA: Intel Corporation 82852/855GM Integrated Graphics Device @ Intel Corporation 82852/82855 GM/GME/PM/GMV Processor to I/O Contr 23:00:42 <Thedarkb-X40> oller • Uptime: 2d 23h 58m 9s 23:00:50 <Thedarkb-X40> She's not exactly a spring chicken. 23:03:11 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 23:09:56 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 23:10:50 <Thedarkb-X40> Would it be possible to put interest and inflation under the control of a NewGRF? 23:13:51 <Eddi|zuHause> no 23:15:28 <Supercheese> Too bad, that's an... interesting idea. 23:31:04 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 23:36:28 *** rocky1138 has joined #openttd 23:36:46 <rocky1138> congrats on the 1.8.0 release 23:37:09 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 23:40:14 <Thedarkb-X40> Shit, it released? 23:42:35 <Pikka> mmmm, "expression expected" at EOF 23:43:04 <Pikka> silly curly brackets 23:43:43 <Pikka> the release is always april 1, Thedarkb-X40 :) 23:44:02 <Supercheese> An ancient tradition 23:44:36 <Pikka> EOF errors or OTTD releases, Supercheese? :P 23:44:45 <Supercheese> Yes.