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00:03:12 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 00:05:16 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:17:47 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 00:27:13 *** APTX_ has quit IRC 00:27:22 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 02:22:47 *** DuckDuckPenis has joined #openttd 02:29:33 *** glx has quit IRC 02:29:56 *** DuckDuckPenis has left #openttd 02:34:31 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 02:34:48 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 02:47:03 *** Laedek_ has joined #openttd 02:50:26 *** Laedek has quit IRC 02:51:07 *** muffindrake4 has joined #openttd 02:52:57 *** muffindrake3 has quit IRC 02:58:35 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 03:12:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 03:18:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 03:28:06 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 04:06:55 <Eddi|zuHause> ah you gotta love windows update... "something didn't work" 04:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> with no information what 04:43:39 <Eddi|zuHause> also fun is how the windows versions apparently use different versioning system 04:44:57 <Eddi|zuHause> "the running version is 14393, the running version is 16299"... what happened to versions 1607,1709 etc? 05:10:19 <Eddi|zuHause> nope... update still stopping halfway through 05:47:47 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 05:58:12 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:05:16 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 06:10:17 *** Cubey has quit IRC 06:18:39 *** som89 has joined #openttd 06:22:56 *** som89__ has joined #openttd 06:25:57 *** som89_ has quit IRC 06:26:42 *** som89 has quit IRC 07:01:02 <V453000> cat 404? 07:04:02 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 07:04:25 <andythenorth> 503 07:25:25 <Arveen> the 5 digit numbers is the build number, the 4 digit one the release name 07:28:34 *** rellig has quit IRC 07:33:33 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:41:13 <Eddi|zuHause> sure... but why? i have no clue which is which... 07:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause> and surely 99.9999% of users neither 07:41:54 <Eddi|zuHause> but whatever, apparently consistency is too much to ask 08:02:54 <LordAro> marketing reasons mostly, aiui 08:12:32 *** Cybertinus has left #openttd 08:13:48 <blathijs> LordAro: peter1138: TrueBrain: ICU Debian maintainer replies, without any real solutions (he does suggest that icu-le-hb is potentially buggy and not really maintained, though): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=894159#50 08:17:49 *** sla_ro|master2 has joined #openttd 08:23:02 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 08:32:31 <peter1138> So direct harfbuzz? 08:32:50 <peter1138> Until that gets dropped :p 08:33:34 <peter1138> libreoffice uses harfbuzz, to answer one of the questions in that bug. 08:35:57 <peter1138> http://mces.blogspot.co.uk/2009/11/pango-vs-harfbuzz.html# 08:47:22 <Arveen> http://www.microsoft.com/de-de/itpro/windows-10/release-information <- has all the infos what build is which version - and what patch level is current 08:49:10 <Arveen> 1803 / 17134.5 is not listed yet, but will be added soon I guess 08:55:48 <blathijs> peter1138: The problem is that, AFAIU, harfbuzz only offers layouting, not wordwrapping 08:56:51 <blathijs> peter1138: I saw that post before, it also says that harfbuzz doesn't do wrapping (and looking at harfbuzz's site, I don't think that changed since then) 08:57:35 <blathijs> I can imagine Libreoffice and others implement their own word-wrapping on top of harfbuzz, since the layouting is probably the tricker part of the two problems (though looking at the ParagraphLayout code, wordwrapping isn't entirely trivial either) 09:16:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Arveen: the existence of that page is completely pointless, since it's not accessible from the "everyone should understand this" updater program 09:18:23 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 09:19:01 <Arveen> that is true 09:19:36 <Arveen> but that's why we have "something didn't work" blue screens - so everybody understands what's going on :D 09:25:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:25:10 <andythenorth> moin 09:26:07 <Arveen> moni 09:32:07 <andythenorth> Pikka: so 1200hp small engine then :P 09:32:18 <Pikka> yes 09:32:30 <andythenorth> I've brought back the Little Bear 09:32:34 <andythenorth> it was kind of iconic for the set 09:32:36 <Pikka> o/ 09:33:11 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9026/little_bear.png 09:33:21 <andythenorth> I tried an 8/8 edition but it looks a bit weird 09:36:53 <Pikka> :D 09:46:46 <andythenorth> ok subject to play-testing, horse engines all done 09:46:51 <andythenorth> I said that twice before :P 09:49:51 *** sla_ro|master2 has quit IRC 10:07:47 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 10:52:17 <peter1138> Hi 10:53:02 <peter1138> Hmm, should I make a 2x/4x gui set? 10:53:19 <peter1138> Or are the doubled-up pixels "cute"? 10:53:28 <andythenorth> I like them 10:53:37 <andythenorth> the original base set scales up fine at 2c 10:53:38 <andythenorth> 2x 10:53:47 <peter1138> I always get annoyed by the alignment errors :( 11:12:07 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 11:26:26 <peter1138> Bollocks, I edited the wrong text field :p 11:36:33 <FLHerne> I thought there was an EZ gui already 11:37:18 <peter1138> Unless it's been updated, it's from before GUI zoom was implemented, and so the sizes are wrong. 11:38:07 <FLHerne> Yes, just discovered that 11:38:29 <FLHerne> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=50095 11:38:41 <FLHerne> Presumably you could steal the actual sprites 11:41:05 <FLHerne> Hm, https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=77288 says the 2x sprites from that set are in the baseset already... 11:48:30 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 11:48:35 <Wolf01> o/ 12:03:59 <peter1138> They're not. 12:06:14 <peter1138> They may be in OpenGFX. But I don't use that. 12:35:57 *** MPAAA3X6 has joined #openttd 12:45:09 *** LorenzoDV has joined #openttd 12:45:44 <LorenzoDV> hi there 12:45:53 <Wolf01> Hi 12:46:32 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:46:39 <LorenzoDV> do you know if nightlies are being built from the new git repo? 12:46:51 <Wolf01> Yes, they are 12:46:51 <andythenorth> not AFAIK 12:46:57 <LorenzoDV> at https://www.openttd.org/en/download-trunk I only see the last SVN build from the first days of april 12:47:24 <Wolf01> What are we building? 12:47:50 <andythenorth> last trunk was https://www.openttd.org/en/download-trunk 12:47:56 <andythenorth> oh I am behind :P 12:48:09 <andythenorth> I might be spreading FUD 12:48:20 <LorenzoDV> :) 12:48:26 <andythenorth> I thought binaries were coming from existing CF, and they'll be building last rev from svn 12:48:53 <andythenorth> it's wavey hands though, I am not canonical :P 12:49:25 <Wolf01> I'm too much used to compile it by myself 12:50:39 <peter1138> They're not being built yet. 12:51:25 <peter1138> CI is making builds just to make sure it compiles, they're not published though. 12:51:33 <Wolf01> Oh 12:51:51 <LorenzoDV> ok... I'll finally have to set up my built environment then! 12:54:04 <peter1138> What OS? 12:54:29 <LorenzoDV> @peter1138: yes, in fact I just found the Jenkins server dashboard doing CI, but no artifacts 12:54:44 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 13:00:24 <blathijs> peter1138: LordAro: TrueBrain: Just compiled OpenTTD 1.8.0 against ICU60 and icu-le-hb (latter two were prepared by the Debian ICU maintainer in experimental, so no changes to OpenTTD required) and that seems to work. However, AFAUI this approach is fragile, potentially buggy and not really maintained, so it might still be worthwile to look for an alternative. 13:00:54 <peter1138> We've got a ton of ICU-related crashes in the bug reports too. 13:01:45 <blathijs> Would we still need ICU if we switch to Harfbuzz + some word-wrapping implementation? Or does Harfbuzz do everything we need from ICU? 13:02:08 <peter1138> I'm not sure. 13:04:49 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 13:05:46 <LordAro> ICU is also used for unicode sorting 13:07:12 <peter1138> So collation. Hmm./ 13:08:16 *** LorenzoDV has quit IRC 13:08:56 <LordAro> as far as i know, there have been no issues with that and it's not deprecated :p 13:14:15 <blathijs> Yeah, and string splitting (in words and characters) it seems (curiously guarded by WITH_ICU_SORT) 13:15:59 <blathijs> It also links against LEFontInstance, but that is probably layout-related and provided by Harfbuzz as well 13:17:06 <blathijs> Here's the list of used symbols: https://gist.github.com/matthijskooijman/0bb6ef88d086b7dd2e01f669f75699a1 13:19:16 *** hi has joined #openttd 13:32:03 <blathijs> But it would probably be fine to use both ICU and Harfbuzz side by side (I believe Harfbuzz even has some optional ICU integration, though I can't find anything specific about this just now0 14:03:55 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 14:03:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 14:04:03 <Alberth> o/ 14:11:59 <peter1138> Hi 14:16:43 <LordAro> hI 14:19:00 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:22:29 <MPAAA3X6> hello charles 14:22:49 <MPAAA3X6> are you THE Charles? 14:26:23 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 14:35:12 *** Lejving__ has joined #openttd 14:42:03 *** Lejving_ has quit IRC 14:48:47 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 14:53:59 <supermop_work> yo 14:54:39 <Alberth> oi 14:56:42 <Pikka> oioi 14:58:21 <andythenorth> seems I've added this to Horse https://farm8.static.flickr.com/7239/7197292794_cf8c8847cf_b.jpg 14:58:25 <andythenorth> by accident 14:58:39 <andythenorth> more retconning :P 14:58:47 <andythenorth> retcon was my word of 2017 :P 15:05:50 <Alberth> rediscovering your own hidden vehicles? :) 15:06:08 <Pikka> does AI brakevan, andythenorth? 15:06:08 <andythenorth> not exactly :) 15:06:20 <andythenorth> Pikka: do you mean 'should it', or 'empirically'? 15:06:31 <Pikka> should it 15:06:50 <andythenorth> if it can 15:06:59 <andythenorth> I do 15:07:24 <Pikka> hmmmm 15:08:02 <andythenorth> Alberth: one of the reasons Horse exists is because pikka wouldn't add that engine to UKRS 2 :) 15:08:13 <andythenorth> but I'd entirely forgotten about it 15:08:16 <Pikka> loco + tender + brakevan is a lot for a TL3 though 15:08:37 <andythenorth> it is 15:08:41 <Alberth> cargo transport is optional :p 15:08:46 <andythenorth> how do you detect brakevan? 15:08:47 <andythenorth> also 15:09:42 <Alberth> and an add-on was a too simple solution, I guess, andy? :) 15:10:27 <andythenorth> well 15:10:30 <Pikka> by assuming any wagon with 0 capacity is a brakevan, naturally :) 15:10:48 <andythenorth> Alberth: something something 'limited roster of trains' 15:11:05 <andythenorth> can't remember whose idea Horse was :) 15:11:10 <Alberth> before the pixels exploded thus 15:11:39 <Alberth> I think it was a good idea anyway :) 15:13:42 <andythenorth> "DanMacK Tue Sep 03, 2013: Ideas for KISS train Set" 15:16:23 <andythenorth> I think we tried 8 trains originally 15:16:27 <andythenorth> not wise :) 15:16:46 <andythenorth> supermop_work: want to play "name that train"? 15:16:56 <supermop_work> ha 15:17:00 <andythenorth> I need a name that's like Janus, the two headed god 15:17:04 <andythenorth> but isn't Janus 15:17:08 <andythenorth> that's an actual UK engine 15:17:13 <andythenorth> and it can be mythical 15:17:24 <andythenorth> I also have Chimera and Phoenix in UK Horse now 15:17:49 <andythenorth> oh I need names for GWR-style railcars too 15:18:02 <andythenorth> 'Banana' and "Bananagram" are placeholder :P 15:18:55 *** synchris has joined #openttd 15:22:51 *** tokai has joined #openttd 15:22:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 15:23:18 <Alberth> fruity vehicles 15:23:47 <supermop_work> how many heads does cerberus have? 15:24:04 *** MPAAA3X6 has quit IRC 15:24:07 <andythenorth> maybe two 15:29:47 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 15:54:51 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:55:18 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 15:57:07 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 16:19:12 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 16:22:29 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> by accident <- how do you add a diesel engine by accident? 16:23:10 <Wolf01> Meh... he's blinking again 16:23:14 <Wolf01> Also quak 16:23:19 <frosch123> hoi 16:23:34 <frosch123> now even the last one should figure out, that andy is the author of xkcd 16:23:41 <LordAro> quak 16:29:30 <Wolf01> Now I understand why the characters of xkcd sometimes resemble some of this chat people :D 16:30:36 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:33:55 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:34:07 *** beno has joined #openttd 16:38:30 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 16:38:30 <andythenorth> supermop_work: "Big Keith"? o_O 16:38:31 <andythenorth> http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/scunthorpesteel/h69F35E24 16:38:35 <andythenorth> it replaces "Little Bear" 16:47:37 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 16:49:10 <frosch123> LordAro: 6770 does not add any warning for gcc6 or clang3.8. do you have other compilers for testing? 16:49:38 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1340 16:49:39 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:49:42 <LordAro> gcc7 is the one that introduced all the warnings 16:49:46 <LordAro> i'll test when i get home 16:50:28 <frosch123> ok, thanks :) 16:52:37 *** Guest1340 has quit IRC 16:52:40 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 16:59:13 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:59:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:01:37 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:04:22 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 17:10:07 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 17:17:43 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:21:39 <Wolf01> https://xkcd.com/1987/ XD 17:26:05 <andythenorth> Wolf01: it's worse than that 17:26:17 <Wolf01> I suspected :P 17:26:26 <andythenorth> they missed Apple Python 17:26:37 <andythenorth> python.buildout (which actually solves all this btw) 17:26:41 <andythenorth> buildout 17:26:45 <andythenorth> bootstrap.py 17:26:52 <andythenorth> setuptools 17:26:54 <andythenorth> another setuptools 17:27:01 * andythenorth spamming the channel, oops 17:27:32 <andythenorth> they missed this "export PATH=$PY:$PY26:$PY24:$PY27:$PY32:$PY33:$PY34:$PY35:$PY36:$PYPY3:$PATH" 17:28:22 <frosch123> i feel dirty now 17:28:46 <andythenorth> it's all basically fine 17:28:54 <andythenorth> AS LONG AS YOU NEVER PASTE THINGS FROM STACK OVERFLOW INTO SHELL 17:29:01 <andythenorth> which is a good rule for life anyway 17:33:43 <andythenorth> hg st 17:33:44 <andythenorth> oops 17:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: even more dirty than trying to make sense of a windows installation that a completely computer-illiterate person used for 2 years? 17:34:56 <andythenorth> just reinstall every year or so 17:35:00 <andythenorth> :x 17:35:03 <glx> first step: remove all browser toolbars 17:35:09 <andythenorth> from python? :o 17:35:16 <andythenorth> things are worse than I though 17:35:18 <andythenorth> t 17:35:29 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that involves personal contact, so it depends on the person 17:36:31 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it's a close relative, that you don't have any feud with 17:36:59 <frosch123> i probably do not even know them 17:37:17 *** beno has quit IRC 17:37:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i was speaking hypothetically 17:37:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i hope you do know some of your relatives :p 17:38:26 <andythenorth> your close relatives aren't allowed to use Windows? 17:46:07 <TrueBrain> right, nightly releases .... I have to change a Jenkins plugin for that ...NOT looking forward to that :( 17:46:11 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 17:47:53 <TrueBrain> *pokes andythenorth about #6753* :D 17:50:23 <frosch123> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD-git-hooks/pull/6 <- any opinions on that? should we enforce the traditional coding style, or switch to something more modern? 17:51:04 <frosch123> (# in first column being the CERT recommendation to work around bugs of 30 year old compilers) 17:51:24 <frosch123> (# indented being easier to explain) 17:51:45 <TrueBrain> no opinion here; dont give a hoot :) 17:51:51 <nielsm> indentation after # is what I'm most used to seeing 17:54:24 <glx> means openttd source code itself will be rejected 17:55:02 <frosch123> glx: we have both 17:55:31 <frosch123> tb's beos pr was rejected because it indented after # :) 17:56:44 <TrueBrain> and you dont write pre-commit-hooks for what is in source; but what is added to it :P 17:58:01 *** beno has joined #openttd 17:58:23 <andythenorth> hmm 17:58:48 <andythenorth> all the trains for 1950-2050 should be visible in the buy menu at once 17:58:49 <andythenorth> they're not 17:59:00 <andythenorth> the 2 I just added don't fit, I should delete them 17:59:28 <andythenorth> 'designing for specific screen sizes' :P 18:04:00 *** ericnoan has quit IRC 18:08:54 <frosch123> ok, even google code style says "do not indent preprocessor" stuff 18:09:08 <frosch123> now i only need someone to press "approve" :p 18:09:45 <TrueBrain> did NOT read the patch :P 18:13:42 <TrueBrain> guess that means I have to do a riddle again too ... 18:17:21 *** ericnoan has joined #openttd 18:20:41 <frosch123> thanks :) 18:20:55 * Wolf01 > avengers 18:21:31 * andythenorth reads how to checkout PRs .... again 18:21:42 <frosch123> i made a git alias 18:21:59 <frosch123> fetchpr = !sh -c 'git fetch pull//head:pr' - 18:23:24 <andythenorth> hmm 18:23:29 <LordAro> does that need sh? 18:23:33 <andythenorth> 6753 is tricky for me, but I'll test 18:23:35 <TrueBrain> updated commit-checker on CI; but we should also make a PR to update it .. couldnt be bothered to follow the right way :P 18:23:42 <frosch123> LordAro: everything with args needs sh afaik 18:23:46 <andythenorth> I turn off all the trackpad gesture shit on the mac 18:23:48 <LordAro> ah right 18:23:49 <andythenorth> except rotate :P 18:23:49 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: the main question is IF that is expected :P 18:23:58 <andythenorth> I'd have to turn it on and test 18:24:02 <andythenorth> let me see 18:24:10 <andythenorth> I'd have to use some Apple apps too 18:24:12 <TrueBrain> none of us use OSX enough to know how other apps do that :P 18:24:14 <TrueBrain> :D 18:24:18 <TrueBrain> you are awesome, tnx :) 18:24:26 <andythenorth> I don't use any of that stuff either 18:24:32 <andythenorth> it just breaks 18:24:41 <frosch123> TrueBrain: we have a second pr, i couldn't be botherer to make separate updates :p 18:24:51 <TrueBrain> we will wait for that :P 18:25:08 <andythenorth> also my compile is really slow, can we fix that, thx :P 18:25:39 <andythenorth> it's more than 2 mins 18:26:32 <andythenorth> wow scroll map on scrollwheel would be really nice 18:27:17 <andythenorth> why did I turn it off? 18:27:26 <TrueBrain> because you are weird 18:27:51 <andythenorth> oic it was broken 18:27:54 <andythenorth> I made a video 18:35:26 <andythenorth> TB notification incoming :P 18:35:52 <TrueBrain> still not the answer to the question we asked :D 18:35:58 <TrueBrain> IS THIS WHAT OTHER OSX APPS DO :P 18:36:09 <TrueBrain> and tnx; that was pretty quick tbh :) 18:36:23 <andythenorth> just reword this in your head 18:36:24 <andythenorth> "pinch-to-zoom confirmed now works per macOS conventions" 18:36:32 <andythenorth> until it answers your question :P 18:36:44 <TrueBrain> totally read over the last part of that sentence 18:36:46 <TrueBrain> haha :D 18:36:47 <andythenorth> I hate 'macOS' name it's ugly as fuck 18:36:47 <TrueBrain> *feels bad* 18:36:57 <TrueBrain> Mac OS X 18:36:59 <TrueBrain> much worse 18:37:03 <andythenorth> it even violates there brand guidelines 18:37:08 <andythenorth> it's "Mac" with capital M 18:37:20 <andythenorth> their * 18:38:07 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: child A tested the CF binaries at the weekend btw 18:38:20 <TrueBrain> tell me you didnt do A/B testing :P 18:39:24 <andythenorth> nope 18:39:41 <andythenorth> interesting concept though 18:39:51 <TrueBrain> but what was his/her ruling? 18:39:54 <andythenorth> I have crash logs, but they're on a mac somewhere else 18:40:01 <andythenorth> I'll dig them out 18:40:09 <andythenorth> GS crashed 18:40:16 <andythenorth> but soft 18:40:19 <andythenorth> and multiple hard crashes 18:40:25 <TrueBrain> bah 18:40:28 <TrueBrain> sounds terrible 18:40:31 <andythenorth> but always the same 'const char tried to fill' shit 18:40:34 <andythenorth> which is ICU no? 18:40:36 <TrueBrain> was it more stable, ignoring the crashes? 18:40:48 <andythenorth> yes, ignoring the crashes it was stable :P 18:40:59 <andythenorth> oh and AIs OOMing 18:41:06 <andythenorth> the cursor artefacts are gone 18:41:15 <TrueBrain> that is good news at least 18:41:19 <TrueBrain> AIs OOMing is just silly 18:41:57 <andythenorth> I have a cursor bug in on macOS 10.12 which wasn't in the binaries child A was playing on 10.13 18:42:04 <andythenorth> but is for the new CF binaries 18:42:14 <andythenorth> cursor locks to left-side of screen 18:42:21 <andythenorth> making game unplayable 18:42:29 <TrueBrain> sounds terrible 18:42:31 <andythenorth> I keep trying to video it 18:42:37 <andythenorth> but as soon as I click, it resolves 18:42:48 <TrueBrain> sounds like you solved it :P 18:42:53 <TrueBrain> you enable an auto-clicker! 18:42:58 <andythenorth> sometimes I wonder if we should just drop the game cursor and use the OS 18:43:03 <andythenorth> there's a FS request about it 18:43:19 <TrueBrain> FS? 18:43:25 <andythenorth> well it was in Flyspray 18:43:27 <TrueBrain> :P 18:43:32 <andythenorth> and now is probably in GH somewhere 18:43:38 <andythenorth> but we probly closed it 18:43:38 <TrueBrain> and closed, most likely :P 18:44:12 <andythenorth> macOS hates custom cursors 18:44:19 <andythenorth> and seems some WIndows does too 18:44:45 <andythenorth> oh medal emojis 18:44:47 <andythenorth> more of those 18:45:25 <TrueBrain> Subject: LAST & FINAL WARNING NOTICE!!! 18:45:32 <TrueBrain> so many things wrong 18:45:42 <TrueBrain> last and final ... how is that different? This is your last, but not your final! 18:45:45 <TrueBrain> and how many !!!!!!! 18:46:08 <TrueBrain> This settlement is about unpaid bequest and last warning notice 18:46:10 <TrueBrain> to you regarding the death of my Late client Edward and his 18:46:11 <TrueBrain> family while on holiday at New Orleans Louisiana USA in the 18:46:13 <TrueBrain> August 2005 Atlantic hurricane Katrina disaster. 18:46:14 <TrueBrain> what the hell is written here ... 18:46:17 <TrueBrain> bequest? 18:47:50 <andythenorth> you're rich TB 18:47:55 <andythenorth> buy AWS time with it 18:48:01 <TrueBrain> I should tell him that 18:48:07 <TrueBrain> reply: pay my AWS with that money! 18:48:39 <andythenorth> tell him: file a PR 18:50:41 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 18:55:20 <andythenorth> such Horse http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9027/such_horse_now.png 18:56:24 <andythenorth> I think that's enough of those 19:10:32 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 19:26:38 <V453000> cat found? 19:27:06 <peter1138> Well, we should use OS cursor where it's possible to update the image for it? 19:27:13 * V453000 finally finished his awesome drag&drop tool for spritesheets and 8bpp converting :) 19:27:18 <peter1138> Even webpages can do that these days :S 19:29:06 <nielsm> andythenorth you don't have any "wardrobe"(?) style shunters? 19:29:11 * nielsm finds those cute 19:29:40 <nielsm> like this: http://www.jernbanen.dk/motor_solo.php?s=9&lokid=44 19:30:08 <andythenorth> oh those 19:30:11 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:30:14 <andythenorth> I thought you meant :) https://locoyard.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/084-2014-watercress-railway-ropley-class-08-08032-gronk.jpg 19:30:37 <peter1138> Yay, got my compile warnings being tracked properly now. Had to write a script to munge the log file as it didn't have full paths, so Jenkins couldn't show the source files. 19:31:20 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 19:31:54 * andythenorth should read src to see if we use https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nscursor 19:32:32 <andythenorth> the system cursor appears and disappears frequently on OS X build 19:32:45 <andythenorth> nielsm: the challenge of little engines like that is....why? :) 19:32:59 <andythenorth> even if I give them OP stats, they have no gameplay role 19:33:07 <nielsm> yeah :( 19:33:47 <peter1138> Do it anyway. 19:33:50 <peter1138> With real stats. 19:33:54 <andythenorth> HEQS includes this http://www.zwiehoff.com/en/products/shunting-technology/unimog-up-to-1000t/ 19:34:00 <andythenorth> with real-ish stats 19:34:07 <peter1138> Then when someone(TM) implements shunting, you'll be there for it. 19:34:11 <andythenorth> yay 19:34:17 <andythenorth> it's easy to do anyway 19:34:27 <peter1138> Yeah, exactly. 19:34:35 <nielsm> a tiny short railway extending a dock's range to a slightly inland industry 19:34:45 <nielsm> and wanting as short as possible trains 19:34:54 <andythenorth> I should add rope-haulage :P 19:35:20 <nielsm> have anyone made horse-drawn trains? 19:35:33 <andythenorth> not afaik 19:35:36 <andythenorth> horse trams though 19:35:41 <supermop_work> i find horses are not that good at drawing trains 19:35:53 <nielsm> they can't hold the pencil? 19:35:55 <supermop_work> they can't hold the pen in their hooves 19:36:07 <andythenorth> supermop_work: you should be kbanned :P 19:37:53 <peter1138> Funicular? 19:38:15 <supermop_work> gondolas 19:38:49 <andythenorth> conveyors 19:38:56 <andythenorth> mornington crescent also 19:39:07 <peter1138> soylent green 19:40:42 <andythenorth> is that a livery colour? 19:41:28 <peter1138> I should finish some patches :p 19:43:10 <Pikka> andythenorth, where are the superchinooks? :D 19:43:53 <andythenorth> Pikka: considering them :P 19:44:20 <andythenorth> I like this one https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5021/5596467290_009b7e8743_b.jpg 19:48:56 <Pikka> yikes 19:49:35 <V453000> OH COME ON IT'S JUST A TRAIN 19:49:37 <V453000> :> 19:49:56 <andythenorth> LIES V453000 19:59:31 <andythenorth> can't let my kids see this Wolf01 http://anjsbrickblog.blogspot.co.uk/2018/03/lego-city-june-2018-set-images-reveaed.html 19:59:49 <andythenorth> we still have an issue because he didn't get the Arctic ship last time round 19:59:57 <andythenorth> 'collection is not complete' :x 20:01:41 <frosch123> how many hours do they have to test iron horse until they get something like that? 20:06:06 <andythenorth> lots 20:06:16 <andythenorth> shall I train them to respond to feature requests also? 20:06:19 *** Gja has joined #openttd 20:06:34 <frosch123> respond how? closing? 20:06:42 <andythenorth> politely 20:06:49 <frosch123> sounds reasonable 20:06:52 <andythenorth> or verifying they're valid also 20:08:54 <peter1138> andythenorth, why is it still "LEGO CITY" 20:09:15 <peter1138> All those arctic cities... 20:09:50 <andythenorth> also volcanoes 20:13:24 <peter1138> Some Jungle theme... 20:13:29 <peter1138> Jungle cities. 20:13:47 <andythenorth> so much wrong 20:13:50 <andythenorth> but eh toys 20:14:10 <nielsm> it feels silly waiting for all the linux and osx builds for a patch that only affects win32 :( 20:14:50 <andythenorth> anyone want to write a web-based HP-per-ton calculator for ottd train physics? :P 20:14:54 <andythenorth> or I just test in game 20:15:23 <frosch123> you would just put the formula into python 20:15:28 <frosch123> so no need for web stuff 20:16:45 <andythenorth> fair 20:17:26 <andythenorth> so I could just set the speed a 250t train should go? 20:17:36 <andythenorth> and then the HP is calculated automatically for the newgrf 20:18:32 <frosch123> i guess you could set uphill speed, and time to accelerator to max speed on flat track 20:19:06 <andythenorth> might be over-engineering it :) 20:19:36 <andythenorth> I could just OP all trains 20:19:45 <andythenorth> then there's no need to worry 20:19:51 <andythenorth> "HP: more than enough" 20:22:38 <glx> <nielsm> it feels silly waiting for all the linux and osx builds for a patch that only affects win32 <-- and windows builds are not even tested ;) 20:23:52 *** beno is now known as Thedarkb 20:24:34 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:27:49 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Try http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/osx_mouse.diff please? 20:28:15 <andythenorth> michi_cc: what fix am I testing? o_O 20:28:39 <michi_cc> Mouse cursor getting stuck. 20:28:59 <michi_cc> Silly coding error. 20:29:02 <andythenorth> ok cool 20:29:15 <andythenorth> it's hard to trigger, but I am running a game right now anyway 20:29:21 <andythenorth> testing grf 20:30:08 <andythenorth> I should raise a bug report 20:30:12 <andythenorth> so you can do a PR against it :P 20:30:25 <michi_cc> Right click scrolling, mouse out of the window to the left, mouse back in was very triggery for me. 20:31:05 *** rocky1138 has joined #openttd 20:31:12 <andythenorth> k 20:33:56 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 20:36:21 <andythenorth> michi_cc: can't trigger it so far, but really brief test 20:38:40 *** Progman has quit IRC 20:41:45 <michi_cc> LordAro: Compiler name detection is still not complete, real OSX gcc --version gives https://gist.github.com/michicc/f26844cd9b62ccdd07ddf203520939f5 20:42:05 <michi_cc> LordAro: Which makes $compiler become 'Apple' 20:42:17 <LordAro> of course it does 20:42:19 <LordAro> bleh. 20:43:04 <LordAro> wonder if it'd just be easier to see what defines are present 20:44:38 <michi_cc> Is there a pure sh grep equivalent? Then you could check if the first output line contains clang *somewhere*. 20:45:28 <LordAro> not sh 20:45:31 <LordAro> bash can do regex 20:48:09 <LordAro> it's also a bit moot if TrueBrain is redoing the build system with cmake 20:48:18 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:51:13 <michi_cc> For completeness, this is an older (real) apple gcc: https://gist.github.com/michicc/bdd04cd665f973e888345340ad2f6d88 20:53:46 <nielsm> hmm yeah integrating dosbox's opl2 emulation in ottd and decoding the dos version fm music through it is probably fine 20:54:18 <nielsm> I'm comparing dosbox playing the music to old recordings from an actual hardware fm synth and they sound pretty much identical 20:54:27 <nielsm> good job, dosbox people (and ken silverman) 20:56:05 <nielsm> ahh yes the classic AI <3 http://0x0.st/s1Xq.png 20:56:23 <LordAro> :D 20:57:06 <glx> I guess it's a line between those airports 20:57:24 <nielsm> it is 20:59:04 <nielsm> and it's put "full load" orders on both stops 20:59:15 <nielsm> so it takes forever to load on the left of them 20:59:28 <LordAro> of course 21:01:17 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 21:06:06 <nielsm> this is also the version of the game where you servicing an industry is an almost-certain death sentence for the industry 21:06:32 <nielsm> if you play with "disasters" on, as the Medium and Hard difficulties have 21:09:26 <andythenorth> :) 21:10:36 *** synchris has quit IRC 21:14:26 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: why on earth does OSX not have __BYTE_ORDER ... its POSIX since 2001? Ugh 21:14:37 <LordAro> much OSX 21:15:03 <TrueBrain> (and why did it work on the CI .. :P) 21:15:20 <glx> cross-compiler 21:15:28 <TrueBrain> with the SDK of OSX 21:15:42 <TrueBrain> it cannot use the headers of the host system 21:15:51 <TrueBrain> bit surprised, but also a potential issue 21:15:56 <michi_cc> It might come from a compiler header and not a SDK header. 21:16:11 <TrueBrain> owh well .. chances of hitting a BE system are ..... well .. low 21:16:34 <glx> could be a compiler define too 21:16:43 <michi_cc> Don't expect an Apple clang to come with real clang headers :) 21:17:02 <TrueBrain> because why would they ... 21:17:18 <glx> it even doesnt come with the original compiler name 21:17:24 <TrueBrain> also just a prefix with DARWIN .. so silly ... 21:17:35 <TrueBrain> but I am happy you fixed it michi_cc :) 21:18:18 <michi_cc> Bit hard to find any other compiler errors if you get about 8 lines of warnings for every single source file :) 21:18:39 <TrueBrain> I was hoping the CI represented the real thing a bit more, but meh 21:18:44 <TrueBrain> also didnt check for warnings tbh 21:18:47 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 21:18:50 <glx> indeed __BYTE_ORDER seems to be a compiler macro, so not related to SDK 21:19:20 <glx> makes sense for it to be absent from apple "custom" compiler ;) 21:20:00 <TrueBrain> the clang is compiled against something in the SDK 21:20:06 <TrueBrain> without an SDK I cannot make the clang work for OSX 21:20:12 <TrueBrain> so I was hoping for a bit more realistic 21:20:17 <TrueBrain> guess I was hoping wrong 21:20:21 <TrueBrain> but what more issues does it present .. 21:20:23 <TrueBrain> owh well 21:23:18 <FLHerne> Why is train weight "0..1279 tons" ? 21:23:28 <FLHerne> (in NML) 21:24:14 <TrueBrain> the question you should be asking .... why not?! 21:24:16 <FLHerne> In the NFO spec it's defined as "prop.24*256+prop.16", where both are one byte, so why doesn't it go up to 65k? 21:24:38 <FLHerne> (not that I particularly /want/ a train to weigh 65 kilotons 21:25:35 <michi_cc> LordAro: I was a tiny bit evil :p 21:25:36 <FLHerne> (and yes, that definitely says it's in tons and not silly multiplied units) 21:26:16 <LordAro> ono 21:26:48 * LordAro reassigns to TB 21:26:59 <TrueBrain> unassigned 21:27:39 <TrueBrain> s/ed/s/ 21:29:35 <FLHerne> Hm, and in the NML source it's just `two_byte_property(0x16, 0x24, {'unit_type': 'weight'}, {'unit_type': 'weight'})` 21:29:47 <FLHerne> So where does the 1279 come from? 21:30:45 <FLHerne> Prop24 would have to be limited to only two bits, which doesn't make much sense 21:30:45 <TrueBrain> LordAro: why did you need to know if it was clang or gcc again? Don't defines do? 21:31:02 <peter1138> So we have this option in settings for "scrollwheel scrolls map" 21:31:04 <peter1138> But... 21:31:12 <peter1138> It's only implementedd for OSX. 21:31:32 <LordAro> TrueBrain: different set of flags 21:31:45 <TrueBrain> ah .. thought they were compatible 21:31:48 <TrueBrain> okay, that is annoying 21:32:20 <LordAro> config.lib:1450 21:32:46 <LordAro> wait, not there 21:33:06 <LordAro> 1175 21:33:22 <TrueBrain> just surprised clang is not compatible with gcc parameters :P 21:34:01 <andythenorth> peter1138: is that a good or bad thing? o-O 21:34:18 <peter1138> andythenorth, it's code I didn't really know about, and can't test anyway. 21:34:39 <andythenorth> :| 21:36:25 <LordAro> TrueBrain: it's basically compatible, but different versions with different warning flags and so on 21:36:34 <TrueBrain> makes sense 21:36:58 <TrueBrain> the reason I guess cmake just compiles a few applications to detect all kinds of shit 21:37:07 <TrueBrain> (they dont run it; they inspect the resulting binary) 21:40:28 *** Gja has quit IRC 21:40:46 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 21:42:08 <peter1138> Damn, accidentally did a rebuild :( 21:42:30 <TrueBrain> guess the CI queues on a monday are also in the order of hours :P 21:42:48 <TrueBrain> main issue to fix that, is that the GitHub plugin Jenkins has, forces a Jenkinsfil in the repo 21:42:53 <TrueBrain> which is a very insecure way ... 21:44:14 <LordAro> hmm? 21:45:13 <TrueBrain> where did your parser fail? 21:47:01 <FLHerne> Hm 21:47:15 <FLHerne> Is it me, or does the NML example_train grf not build? 21:47:27 <LordAro> TrueBrain: why are the CI queues busy? 21:47:36 <FLHerne> It uses shorten_vehicle, which according to the changelog hasn't existed since 0.3 21:47:38 <TrueBrain> because people keep making PRs? :P 21:47:40 <LordAro> or, why is them being busy relevant to us? 21:47:56 <TrueBrain> because our PRs take for ever to validate? 21:48:12 <TrueBrain> well, maybe not relevant to you, as you don't have a PR :D 21:48:47 <LordAro> oh, they take that long? 21:48:50 <LordAro> i hadn't realised 21:49:01 <LordAro> that seems excessive, even for running 3 separate builds 21:49:09 <TrueBrain> huh? 21:49:42 <LordAro> 6772 is on 50minutes 21:49:53 <TrueBrain> yeah, had to wait 30 minutes for a slot 21:49:59 <TrueBrain> build takes ~20 minutes 21:50:09 <LordAro> ah ok, that's less bad 21:50:21 <TrueBrain> just too many people push stuff :D 21:50:22 <LordAro> needs more builders :p 21:50:37 <TrueBrain> which is not possible without altering the GitHub plugin of sorts 21:50:39 <TrueBrain> not sure how yet 21:50:53 <TrueBrain> or maybe I should just do the VCS commands myself .. hmm 21:50:53 *** Gja has joined #openttd 21:51:09 <LordAro> why is it not possible? 21:51:31 <TrueBrain> it needs to load the Jenkinsfile from the VCS (for what-ever stupid reason); I cannot force one 21:51:38 <TrueBrain> so I want to run that in a Docker for obvious reasons :D 21:51:56 <TrueBrain> and then you get in a bit of a silly shit, that multiple jobs can starve the CPU 21:52:16 <TrueBrain> I rather have that I can force a Jenkinsfile, and not have the initial job run in a Docker 21:52:22 <TrueBrain> than the normal Jenkins max executor can do its thing 21:52:24 <nielsm> hmm random useless measurement: a full release build for win32 on my desktop takes about 3 minutes 21:52:25 <TrueBrain> solving the whole mess 21:52:29 <LordAro> why would you need to force a jenkins file? 21:52:42 <TrueBrain> would you trust a random Jenkinsfile from a random PR? 21:52:46 *** Gja has quit IRC 21:52:54 <LordAro> well no, but that's why docker, right? 21:52:58 <peter1138> Yeah, that's a bit of a design flaw :S 21:53:13 <TrueBrain> that is why I have to load the initial Jenkinsfile in a docker 21:53:14 <LordAro> could have some sort of "needs validation if jenkinsfile modified" thing 21:53:26 <TrueBrain> that would be possible .. but then I need a feedback system 21:53:32 <TrueBrain> so that means a bot on GitHub 21:53:37 <TrueBrain> which is going to happen sooner o rlater anyway .. 21:53:43 <peter1138> Uh oh 21:53:47 <TrueBrain> but same issue, different solution .. still shitty :P 21:53:48 <LordAro> hehe 21:54:06 <TrueBrain> yeah, I want to be able to do something like: @DorpsGek: create release 21:54:16 <TrueBrain> and he gives 1 hour later URLs to download release binaries 21:54:20 <TrueBrain> as some PRs I would really like to test 21:55:13 <TrueBrain> also I noticed that it would be nice if you can say: @DorpsGek: autoclose 1 month 21:55:22 <TrueBrain> and that after a month of no activity, he closes the issue :P 21:55:27 <TrueBrain> as fuck, I am not going to be able to track that :D 21:56:14 <TrueBrain> and DorpsGek needs replacement too .... so yeah .. 21:56:17 <TrueBrain> either way, first the CI 21:57:20 <TrueBrain> just shitty those plugins force you in 1 way 21:57:25 <TrueBrain> when ever was 1 way the correct way for any CI 21:57:35 <TrueBrain> their solution is: only trust contributors 21:57:44 <TrueBrain> like .... that is shitty :P 21:59:47 <glx> you are lucky nielsm 22:00:08 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:01:18 <TrueBrain> off to bed! Night! 22:06:22 *** markyisri has joined #openttd 22:06:35 <markyisri> hello 22:07:11 <nielsm> glx: build speed? I don't consider my machine impressive at all, though... 22:07:52 <glx> linking is slow 22:08:29 <nielsm> well yes, especially with LTCG 22:08:41 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> your close relatives aren't allowed to use Windows? <-- that wouldn't exempt you from supporting those computers either 22:08:58 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, person was really happy about "boah this computer is fast now" 22:09:30 <markyisri> I recently started playing OpenTTD (yesterday). It has taken me a while but I seem to have finally gotten off the ground in regards to profit vs debt. I was trying to make a dead-end station with two tracks coming off of it but I can't get the signalling right. 22:09:39 <glx> of course after you removed all the useless stuff auto installed by crappy apps downloaded from internet 22:10:17 <nielsm> markyisri, can you share a screenshot? 22:11:18 <nielsm> you can find a lot of guides on signalling out there, but for a wholly new player I'd recommend just learning to use path-based signals from the beginning, they make things simpler in the long run 22:11:30 <markyisri> Not right now as I am not on the computer with OpenTTD. It's a single track station with one dead end and the other with a short straight rail followed by a split into two different lines that are unconnected in any way. 22:11:36 <markyisri> I tried path based signals 22:11:38 <nielsm> (PBS also matches real-world signalling better, in most cases) 22:11:58 <glx> first rule for PBS, place signals only where it's safe to wait 22:12:12 <markyisri> I tried protecting each branch where they join the mainline. 22:12:24 <nielsm> oh, the two platforms on your station are not "equal"? 22:12:46 <nielsm> (could a train ever pick the wrong platform to not be able to continue?) 22:13:01 <glx> and more important, a junction should never be blocable by a signal 22:13:37 <glx> else a train will fataly stops in the middle of the junction 22:13:50 <nielsm> yes: 1) place signals before the entry to danger points 2) do not place signals so a train waiting at it would block crossing trains 22:14:36 <nielsm> (and as a corollary, do not place signals at exits from danger points) 22:14:56 <markyisri> I can send a mockup picture that I made. How do I attach pictures? 22:15:04 <glx> usually for platforms you place one way signals with lights facing the platform 22:15:32 <glx> trains can pass signals from the wrong direction 22:15:32 <nielsm> irc chat doesn't really have picture sharing built-in, you can upload it to imgur.com or similar and share the link 22:16:08 <markyisri> https://imgur.com/a/Nsru0R6 22:16:12 <markyisri> Please excuse the quality 22:16:16 <markyisri> I hand-drew it for the most part 22:16:19 <markyisri> with a mouse 22:16:45 <nielsm> looks right 22:17:22 <FLHerne> Which way are the signals facing? 22:17:29 <markyisri> The ^ symbol shows which way 22:18:11 <glx> so both tracks are 2-way ? 22:18:43 <glx> usually you want two 1-way tracks, one for each direction 22:18:46 <markyisri> Yes. A train arrives coming down the picture and enters the station. Shortly after, the second train arrived coming down the picture and obstructed the junction, preventing the first train from leaving the same way it came. 22:18:53 <markyisri> Ah. 22:19:05 <markyisri> So I cannot do a dead-end run back and forth with the train turning around each time? 22:19:20 <markyisri> I ask because it is cheaper than constructing more rails. :) 22:19:21 <FLHerne> You can 22:19:36 <glx> you can, just put signal on the arriving track 22:19:49 <markyisri> where would I place the signal on my picture? 22:19:53 <FLHerne> Where did the second train stop? If the signals face in the direction shown, it shouldn't be possible for the second train to get a path approaching the station at all 22:20:17 <markyisri> I think I may have added another path signal immediately following the junction. 22:20:20 <FLHerne> (I assume that ^ means 'for trains heading 'north' ') 22:20:20 <markyisri> But I can't remember. 22:20:25 <markyisri> no 22:20:32 <markyisri> It shows the way that the signal light is shining 22:20:37 <nielsm> http://0x0.st/s1Xx.png 22:20:47 <nielsm> I think that's what you want 22:21:00 <FLHerne> A screenshot would be clearer 22:21:12 <FLHerne> Yes, that should work if you have a single train on each branch 22:21:49 <markyisri> nielsm: there is no need for a signal facing the other direction for the train in the platform? 22:21:56 <FLHerne> If you have more than one train using the same branch, you'll need a passing loop to avoid the problem with trains being blocked from leaving 22:22:11 <markyisri> FLHerne: I see what would happen. 22:22:20 <nielsm> not if it's end of line, no 22:22:28 <nielsm> but otherwise yes this is also fine: http://0x0.st/s1X3.png 22:22:36 <glx> if you place a signal on the platform you'll get a train waiting in the junction 22:22:52 <markyisri> glx: Which is exactly what I don't want 22:22:59 <markyisri> I want it to wait before obstructing the junction 22:23:16 <glx> but as nielsm placed it it's ok 22:23:22 *** markyisri has quit IRC 22:24:05 *** markyisri has joined #openttd 22:24:10 <markyisri> sorry 22:24:16 <markyisri> lost internet 22:24:28 <FLHerne> Something like this will work with multiple trains per branch: http://www.flherne.uk/files/ttd_passing_loops.png 22:25:04 <markyisri> That looks like it will work when I expand service in the future (after getting out of debt) 22:25:20 <markyisri> Speaking of which, any suggestions on how to pay off the loan faster? 22:25:20 <FLHerne> (it's important that there are at least as many 'safe' places to wait (including platforms at the other end) as trains using the line 22:25:27 <FLHerne> ) 22:25:31 <glx> be prepared to always modify your tracks ;) 22:25:33 <nielsm> remember, sometimes it's better to take on more debt to expand service 22:25:40 <nielsm> :) 22:25:47 <markyisri> I currently owe 0,000 US 22:25:51 <nielsm> because of network effect 22:26:09 <glx> for easy money transport coal :) 22:26:31 <FLHerne> markyisri: Note: nielsm's picture with the circle /will/ stick if each branch has more than one train 22:26:40 <Eddi|zuHause> <glx> of course after you removed all the useless stuff auto installed by crappy apps downloaded from internet <-- luckily, person is very conservative about "i'm too scared to install anything" 22:27:13 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:27:13 <glx> oh so not an IE with 5 search bars ? 22:27:15 <markyisri> I transport large amounts of coal already. In fact one of those branches runs a 5-6 car coal train back and forth to a power station and a coal mine 22:27:27 <markyisri> I'm transporting pretty much all the mine has to offer 22:27:39 <markyisri> I'm also running a 64x64 map because larger maps seemed to be unmanageable 22:27:50 <FLHerne> markyisri: Longer distances tend to be more profitable 22:28:06 <markyisri> FLHerne: So you recommend that I run a larger map? 22:28:06 <nielsm> 64x64 you very quickly fill out 22:28:15 <glx> the best thing to do is to have an empty train entering the loading station as soon as the full train leaves 22:28:24 <FLHerne> Or from one side to the other of your 64-tile one ;-) 22:28:45 <glx> but 64x64 is better with trucks ;) 22:28:51 <FLHerne> Cargo payment is based on the distance travelled, and to some extent on the average speed 22:29:17 <markyisri> In OpenTTD it is better to be less efficient with distance? 22:29:21 <markyisri> In terms of cost 22:29:22 <nielsm> recently I tried a no-industries 64x64 game with the goal of filling the entire map with city :P https://0x0.st/sBlR.png 22:29:36 <nielsm> (that's year 2011 progress) 22:29:49 <FLHerne> Average speed is higher for long distances, because you spend less time sitting around in stations and accelerating, and resource utilisation per unit-cargo-distance is also better 22:29:55 <nielsm> (and yes eventually did fund a few industries) 22:30:01 <markyisri> FLHerne: I understand 22:30:21 <markyisri> nielsm: If I run a no-industries map it's based solely on transporting passengers/mail. Correct? 22:30:37 <nielsm> yes 22:30:56 <nielsm> it's harder to get off the ground, because cities start small 22:31:14 <nielsm> but when cities start growing everything balloons 22:31:22 <markyisri> nielsm: Which of these types is easier for a beginner like me? 22:31:38 <FLHerne> Industries; passengers are a nuisance 22:31:39 <markyisri> A more general question would be what size/type of game would you recommend for a beginner? 22:31:52 <glx> passengers are not the easy way at start 22:31:54 <nielsm> a flat 256x256 game with lots of industries 22:31:56 <Eddi|zuHause> if you're playing larger than 64x64, passengers is easier, because you tend to find two larger cities quite close to each other 22:32:06 <glx> then you get way too much passengers 22:32:16 <Eddi|zuHause> which can easily sustain full passenger trains both ways 22:32:19 <markyisri> nielsm: I should give that a try then 22:32:40 <markyisri> Unfortunately I have to leave this chat 22:32:43 <FLHerne> The problem with passengers is the bidirectionality and fuzzy supply area, it's hard to move them in a controlled way 22:32:45 <markyisri> But thank you for the advice 22:32:47 <nielsm> also play with breakdowns turned off 22:32:52 <nielsm> if you aren't already 22:33:00 <FLHerne> (without cargodist, which creates its own confusions) 22:33:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and with cargodist on :) 22:33:01 <markyisri> nielsm: I have not turned them off. I will tonight. 22:33:20 <glx> oh and build a bus line with 4 stations in cities you want to grow 22:33:21 *** markyisri has quit IRC 22:33:35 <FLHerne> Of course, that's also what makes them fun once you've figured it out :P 22:34:26 *** markyisri has joined #openttd 22:34:27 <markyisri> glx: thank you 22:34:29 <markyisri> for that tip 22:34:32 *** markyisri has quit IRC 22:34:37 <nielsm> heh 22:34:41 <nielsm> pop in and out 22:34:58 <glx> yeah webchat is not ideal :) 22:35:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't really understand why he "had to leave"? 22:35:31 <ST2> he'll come back when next doubt appears xD 22:35:32 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 22:36:02 <Eddi|zuHause> some headlines make you scratch your head... "the town of Vittel is running out of water, because Nestle sells too much" 22:36:13 <glx> lol 22:37:19 <glx> people of Vittel don't buy bottles 22:39:42 <nielsm> better get some sleep here too, gn 22:40:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but either Nestle needs to stop producing water bottles, or they need to build pipelines from elsewhere that brings the non-nestle water 22:47:47 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:49:11 *** Progman has joined #openttd 22:55:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 23:01:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 23:30:22 *** Pikka has quit IRC 23:36:56 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:41:05 <Wolf01> 'night 23:41:08 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:58:57 *** FLHerne has quit IRC