Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:22:12 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 00:29:29 <Hazzard> How far out will sub tropical lumber mills search for wood :s 00:35:16 <Hazzard> damn its huge 00:37:10 <Hazzard> 20 tiles in each direction 00:41:47 <Beerbelott> glx: Already knew the doc you pointed out... but I'm somehow struggling at resconstructing the binary chain to send for RCON client (authenticated) commands... 00:41:58 <Beerbelott> Trying to read the code of some lib. Not an easy task. 00:45:40 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 02:13:59 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:15:26 *** Beerbelott has quit IRC 02:23:48 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... so i have backups of all the partitions that used to be on the broken SSD (made before it broke), but not of the partition table... and i can't seem to make a partition table so it actually boots from this USB device 02:25:00 *** Beerbelott1 has joined #openttd 02:32:39 <Beerbelott1> It seems www.openttd.org is inaccessible 02:33:06 <Beerbelott1> openttd.org is, redirecting to www.openttd.org w/ HTTP 301 02:34:11 <Eddi|zuHause> works here 02:58:49 <Beerbelott1> Tested from my server too, which sits in a remote location 02:59:03 <Beerbelott1> * Connected to www.openttd.org (2a03:b0c0:2:d0::dc6:7001) port 80 (#0) 02:59:03 <Beerbelott1> > GET / HTTP/1.1 02:59:03 <Beerbelott1> > Host: www.openttd.org 02:59:03 <Beerbelott1> > User-Agent: curl/7.52.1 02:59:03 <Beerbelott1> > Accept: */* 02:59:05 <Beerbelott1> > 02:59:05 <Beerbelott1> * Recv failure: Connection reset by peer 02:59:30 <Eddi|zuHause> does that do https? 02:59:46 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it's an IPv6 issue? 03:00:20 <Eddi|zuHause> there maybe was a thing where a thing needed to be updated manually every now and then 03:00:21 <Beerbelott1> Ahhh IPv6 03:00:24 <Beerbelott1> Totally possible 03:00:28 <Beerbelott1> lemme test for that 03:00:49 <Beerbelott1> Yup 03:00:54 <Beerbelott1> IPv4 works fine 03:01:08 <Beerbelott1> IPv6 pb on your box 03:01:13 <Beerbelott1> Lemme guess... Hetzner? 03:01:25 <Eddi|zuHause> don't think so 03:01:46 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, there is probably nobody around who can fix it right now 03:01:57 <Beerbelott1> OK. Often when that happens there is a correlation w/ that hoster ^^ 03:02:04 <Beerbelott1> Well, bad call there, but it's IPv6 indeed 03:02:17 <Beerbelott1> Well, it's not "critical" I suppose 03:02:45 <Beerbelott1> It's a lil bit weird dual-stacks don't test both version when available... DNS answers both addresses alright 03:03:13 <Beerbelott1> OK off to bed now 03:03:17 <Beerbelott1> C ya 'round 03:03:19 *** Beerbelott1 has left #openttd 03:15:55 *** Samu has quit IRC 03:28:00 <glx> yup ipv6 fails here too, probably the proxy 03:29:42 *** glx has quit IRC 03:58:08 <reldred> right, I've finally got what I was wishing for, NRT in jgr's patch pack, I've got my custom made tree set all ready to go for that sweet sweet diferentiating folliage, I've got a few custom tweaked building sets all playing nicely together, 03:58:21 <reldred> and do you think I can maintain attention span long enough to actually PLAY it, no. 04:01:05 <Eddi|zuHause> depends how big of a map you play? 04:01:42 <reldred> been hovering around 2048x1024 or 2048x512 04:02:31 <reldred> nah my add has been legit playing silly buggers lately. I can get really engrosed in some stuff and the others I can't get 5mins in 04:03:33 <Eddi|zuHause> my experience is if i don't get interrupted by work problems or game breaking bugs, i can get about a month out of a game 04:04:32 <reldred> About the best I can get is around 5days 04:04:57 <reldred> And at the present moment it's about 5 mins 04:05:54 <Eddi|zuHause> currently i'm bugged with system instabilities, where about once per day the system freezes up 04:06:02 <reldred> Bugger 04:06:48 <reldred> Yeah I was expecting my self-compile of jgr's nrt branch to be buggy as hell but I've not managed to break it yet 04:08:03 <reldred> Can't get that updated rainfall patch to compile, seems to be drawing on a bunch of includes common in linux systems but not windows 04:09:29 <Eddi|zuHause> can you compile the original? 04:09:38 <reldred> Yup, and jgr's patchpack 04:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean the unupdated patch 04:10:07 <reldred> it was apparently a long way behind master 04:10:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you'd have to check out an old version 04:10:40 <reldred> Yeah I didn't go that far into it 04:11:02 <reldred> the old version was pre NRT so I wasn't terribly interested. 04:11:53 <reldred> Now that does remind me, now that I do have a working build environment there was some other things I was going to start poking around with 04:44:49 *** APTX has quit IRC 04:59:43 *** APTX has joined #openttd 05:19:30 <Hazzard> some of this code is wack :D 05:22:36 <Hazzard> Does anyone know if the percentages (of 256) are rounded or truncated? 05:22:43 <Hazzard> for UI display 05:46:50 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 06:12:16 *** Laedek_ has quit IRC 06:12:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 06:12:51 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 06:30:44 <reldred> oh custom bridgeheads, how I've missed you 06:31:51 <peter1138> WHAT 06:31:56 <peter1138> Oh, in JGR? 06:32:01 <reldred> yup 06:32:07 <reldred> I finally compiled his nrt branch 06:32:13 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:32:16 <peter1138> I keep meaning to try porting that to master but... map arrays and savegame changes :/ 06:32:50 <reldred> jgr's branch also has some magic buttons that handle all that scheduling nonsense that I don't understand 06:32:57 <peter1138> Also I thought my milk was curdling but turns out the fridge is so cold it's just partially frozen o_O 06:33:03 <reldred> lol 06:33:23 <peter1138> I suppose at least it'll keep fresh for longer :D 06:33:42 <peter1138> It's raw unpasturised milk. 06:34:24 <reldred> and improved breakdowns! *swoon* 06:34:32 <peter1138> Improved how? 06:34:52 <reldred> more failure states, they don't just break and sit there they can limp along, etc. 06:35:06 <reldred> reduced output, etc. 06:35:06 <peter1138> Hmm. 06:36:39 <peter1138> Definitely not off, it still tastes really good (despite being a week old!) 06:37:39 <reldred> nekminnit brain worms 06:38:02 <peter1138> Probably. 06:39:15 *** Progman has joined #openttd 06:40:36 <reldred> huh, I never noticed the extended zoom out options 06:44:09 <peter1138> Oh dear, I just looked at today's planned ride. To a Café Nero. I really can't be arsed with that. 06:44:26 <reldred> push bike? 06:44:37 <peter1138> Yeah. 06:45:04 <peter1138> And the leader is kinda annoying, slows down or speeds up randomly. 06:45:27 <reldred> I should buy a new push bike 06:45:44 <reldred> since I won't be running any time soon with the arthritis 06:45:52 <peter1138> Oof. 06:46:00 <reldred> yeah doc reckons I have RA 06:46:01 <peter1138> Yeah, cycling is at least low impact. 06:46:16 <peter1138> Anyway, I should have a day off from cycling, I've ridden all week. 06:46:40 <reldred> The problem is my idiot ass would go and buy a hard tail with small wheels and do dumb things on concrete with it. 06:46:52 <peter1138> Hard tail with small wheels... 06:46:54 <peter1138> So a BMX. 06:46:57 <reldred> Not quite 06:47:11 <reldred> BMX's are too small for me, I smash my knees something chronic 06:47:30 <reldred> But yeah drop the wheels a few inches, nothing too wild and they do well on concrete 06:47:41 <reldred> single speed 06:47:50 <peter1138> Other than folding bikes, I don't know what other bikes have small wheels. 06:48:03 <reldred> oh not small small 06:48:07 <reldred> but small for a mtb 06:48:37 <reldred> I _could_ do with a decent folder for sticking in my truck though 06:48:38 <peter1138> So, er, there's 26, 27.5 or 29 generally. 06:48:41 <reldred> or get that bmx replaced 06:48:58 <reldred> s/replaced/repaired/ 06:49:32 <reldred> bought that bmx off a very crazy lady in coastal nsw when I was driving to adelaide from queensland 06:49:39 <reldred> just a lazy 3000km drive 06:49:42 <reldred> or thereabouts 06:49:48 <peter1138> I just want more bikes :/ 06:50:14 <peter1138> Like I keep thinking a Brompton would be useful... but kinda wasteful. 06:56:49 <Hazzard> Reading the industry source code, is it only possible for industries with multiple types (farms, oil rigs) to close if both their productions reach zero? 06:56:50 <Hazzard> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/1.9.2/src/industry_cmd.cpp#L2570-L2619 06:57:14 <peter1138> If you've just read the source you probably know more than anyone else ;) 06:58:07 <nielsm> yeah by default rules a multi-output primary industry can only close when all of its outputs are at minimum 06:58:32 <nielsm> also note that that's for smooth economy, not classic economy 06:59:00 <nielsm> and newgrf industries can override the closure rules with the production change callback 06:59:37 <Hazzard> Hmm neat, thanks nielsm 07:01:47 <Hazzard> source code is a bit hard to read, not confident 07:02:19 <reldred> Ahah. The only foul up I've managed to find in jgr's nrt, custombridgeheads plus nrt plus stations underneath are all fine, until a train is in said station and a tram goes over the top and then the poor sprite sorter loses its goddamn mind. 07:02:21 <Hazzard> I guess the clamp means the production never actually shows up as zero 07:02:30 <reldred> So situation normal then. 07:02:31 <nielsm> it's features layered on features with years of special exceptions added 07:03:00 <nielsm> very much spaghetti 07:03:08 <peter1138> Bridges over stations is a feature I didn't add (after writing it) about 10 years ago, for that very reason. 07:03:52 <reldred> It's fine, and even fine with a train at the station, it's just once a tram goes accross the pylons and everything has a fit. 07:04:10 <reldred> Overall not too bothered, if anything I've been surprised how stable this branch has been. 07:05:12 <reldred> I was thinking the reason he didn't post binaries was because it was unstable but so-far so-good. 07:07:23 <Eddi|zuHause> reldred: sprite sorter is a bit useless if bounding boxes overlap 07:07:37 <reldred> yu 07:07:39 <reldred> yup 07:08:01 <reldred> I have fond memories of coaxing behavior out of the sprite sorter when making stations with overpasses, etc. 07:08:06 <Eddi|zuHause> might need a better heuristic to resolve that case, but solving it one way usually creates more problems elsewhere 07:08:13 <reldred> and by fond I mean painful 07:09:19 <reldred> it's that one thing alone that's probably singlehandedly stopped the suburban stations rework dead in its tracks 07:09:31 <reldred> laid out all the sprites then went fuck now I have to actually code it 07:12:23 <peter1138> Urgh, as much as I like my CH yoke, the 8-bit sampling on the analogue axes is kinda frustrating :/ 07:12:48 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the game should throw error messages for bounding box overlaps, if in newgrf-developer-mode? 07:13:41 <reldred> peter1138: it's only 8bit? :O. I was pondering getting a yoke for star citizen since I mainly fly big ships when I do play it. 07:14:04 <peter1138> Yes, the CH hardware is pretty ancient. 07:14:27 <peter1138> Thinking about swapping the circuitry for a Leo Bodnar thing. 07:15:58 <peter1138> Technically it's enough. 07:16:10 <peter1138> But it feels wrong when you can see the steps in movement. 07:20:33 <peter1138> Hmm, seems there is a bit of a deadzone too :/ 07:20:42 <peter1138> Wonder when that started. Hmm. 07:21:23 <peter1138> I tried using yoke & rudder in Elite Dangerous but... Elite's yaw pitch is so crap anyway... 07:21:31 <peter1138> PITCH? 07:21:33 <peter1138> yaw axis.. 07:23:34 <peter1138> Hmm, problem with OrbX TrueEarth UK is... the UK is mostly flat :p 07:23:59 <peter1138> There's a bit up north where mountains are visible but when you're at 4-5000 ft it all looks very tame. 07:26:00 <Hazzard> @logs 07:26:00 <DorpsGek> Hazzard: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd 07:40:47 *** APTX has quit IRC 07:47:54 <peter1138> I think the G27 pedals are probably 8 bit too, but that hardly matters either. 07:48:25 <peter1138> I did buy some hall-effect sensors to replace the pots with but never go around to doing it. And then lost them. 08:06:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:08:29 <andythenorth> o/ 08:14:01 *** Progman has quit IRC 08:15:23 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 08:23:58 <peter1138> o\ 08:24:32 <peter1138> Uh, what, to change my callsign I have to... edit the plane? o_O 08:27:47 <andythenorth> o_O 08:27:54 * andythenorth wonders 08:28:15 <andythenorth> in the cheat window, for game date, why does the '<' arrow incremement game date? 08:28:31 <andythenorth> I thought I was mis-clicking, but I'm not 08:28:57 <andythenorth> in fact all the '<' arrows are broken 08:29:01 <andythenorth> super :) 08:30:06 * andythenorth wonders if James103 will file an issue about it :) 08:33:01 <andythenorth> hmm, not all, maybe just date and max height 08:38:55 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] michicc opened issue #93: IPv6 broken again https://git.io/fjX8Z 08:39:50 <peter1138> UI scaling issue? 08:41:02 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 08:43:07 *** Flygon has quit IRC 08:45:25 <reldred> we need more tree sets 08:45:41 <reldred> I should do something about that 08:47:08 <andythenorth> could be UI scaling issue 08:47:23 <peter1138> andythenorth, difficult to test, eh? 08:47:44 <andythenorth> I can only repro it in the cheat window 08:47:52 <andythenorth> can't trigger it in settings 08:48:01 <peter1138> Reproduce it with different UI scales. 08:48:10 <andythenorth> ok 08:48:21 <peter1138> They're separate windows, so... that's likely. 08:49:21 <andythenorth> yeah it triggers at [1x zoom, 2x font] and at [1x zoom, 2x font] and [2x zoom, 2x font] 08:49:42 <andythenorth> how do I record an animated gif? :P 08:51:00 <peter1138> 1x 1x? 08:51:10 <peter1138> No need to record, surely? 08:51:17 <peter1138> Or are you unable to describe things clearly these days? 08:53:06 <andythenorth> the video is just way less verbose :P 08:53:58 <peter1138> Less verbose is less useful. 08:58:32 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened issue #7655: Cheat window date '<' arrow incremements date https://git.io/fjX84 09:00:29 <andythenorth> I added an extra note, moving the mouse further left does get the expected result 09:05:14 <nielsm> the docs on ClickChangeDateCheat does not match the actual code... 09:05:45 <nielsm> "p1 unused" (appears to contain modified year), "p2 +1 (increase) or -1 (decrease)" (is not used at all) 09:05:54 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 09:11:21 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7655: Cheat window date '<' arrow incremements date https://git.io/fjX8w 09:13:38 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7655: Cheat window date '<' arrow incremements date https://git.io/fjX8o 09:19:24 * andythenorth BBL 09:20:25 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:23:00 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain closed issue #93: IPv6 broken again https://git.io/fjX8Z 09:23:01 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #93: IPv6 broken again https://git.io/fjX8H 09:48:40 *** debdog has joined #openttd 09:51:59 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 10:01:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 11:06:25 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:20:45 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 11:25:28 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper updated pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI https://git.io/fjXmK 11:39:46 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 11:43:18 <andythenorth> Horse 91% 11:47:01 <nielsm> reaching dangerous levels of completedness 11:57:29 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper updated pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI https://git.io/fjXmK 11:57:41 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] michicc updated pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019 https://git.io/fjZhM 11:58:04 <michi_cc> Quick poll: First or second option for layout: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/dp_layout_1.png ? 12:06:48 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7560: Make GSGoal.QuestionClient work correctly at least for clients with ID < 2**16 https://git.io/fjXBD 12:08:28 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] michicc commented on issue #93: IPv6 broken again https://git.io/fjXBS 12:12:59 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #93: IPv6 broken again https://git.io/fjXBH 12:16:07 <michi_cc> andythenorth, LordAro: First or second layout option in http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/dp_layout_1.png 12:20:24 <andythenorth> I vastly prefer the first option 12:20:29 <andythenorth> michi_cc ^ 12:20:48 <michi_cc> okay 12:28:40 <LordAro> michi_cc: definitely first 12:28:58 <LordAro> possibly with a little more spacing after the paragraph 12:31:43 <michi_cc> The formatting is just a markdown change, but the spacing would be css messing I think. 12:32:05 <andythenorth> Horse 92% 12:32:11 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7560: Make GSGoal.QuestionClient work correctly at least for clients with ID < 2**16 https://git.io/fjZjH 12:32:12 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #7534: GSGoal.QuestionClient sends message to wrong client https://git.io/fj3Uq 12:32:30 <LordAro> michi_cc: we can worry about that later then 12:32:42 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] michicc updated pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019 https://git.io/fjZhM 12:33:09 <michi_cc> Please note that the GitHub preview renders differently to our site. 12:35:56 * LordAro spots 2 typos 12:37:30 <michi_cc> You may push changes anytime. 12:38:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper updated pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI https://git.io/fjXmK 12:39:27 <Eddi|zuHause> so, anyone know how one would select the boot partition with gpt? 12:40:10 <Eddi|zuHause> or, where i would get a windows bootloader from? 12:40:47 <nielsm> UEFI or BIOS boot? 12:42:15 <LordAro> michi_cc: i feel the "extension" explanation is unnecessary, given we're assuming people are already familiar with source code 12:42:25 <LordAro> can i remove? 12:43:08 <michi_cc> Our use of both .h and .hpp is not common, if that is in, leaving .cpp out looks wiered. 12:43:41 <LordAro> mm, perhaps 12:44:06 <LordAro> though our differences between hpp & h are usually fairly arbitrary :p 12:44:13 <michi_cc> I.e. both extension are commonly used, but don't have any set meaning. 12:45:45 <michi_cc> And purely from a didactical point of view, IMHO if you split something into parts, simply not saying anything about one part is wrong. 12:48:04 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: not entirely sure, but i assume UEFI 12:48:23 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro updated pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019 https://git.io/fjZhM 12:48:28 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: i have a windows partition and a boot partition, but the partition table stuff got lost 12:48:47 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: and when i create a partition table and move the partitions in, it won't boot from the disk 12:49:05 <LordAro> probably merge it now so we can see it on staging, then tweak anything else 12:49:25 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019 https://git.io/fjXRf 12:50:43 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper updated pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI https://git.io/fjXmK 12:50:44 <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause: if you have the windows boot partition (typically a 500 mb FAT32 thing) then you should just be able to point your firmware at the disk and it should auto-detect the boot partition and run the bootloader 12:51:25 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7654: Change: Update for French town name "Beaujolais" https://git.io/fjXRk 12:51:35 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: did i put them in the wrong order? 12:52:21 <nielsm> order shouldn't matter afaik 12:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still thinking i'm missing some "this is the boot partition" flag 12:52:59 <Eddi|zuHause> but i've never worked with gpt partitions before 12:53:10 <nielsm> have you tried booting from a windows install usb/dvd and see if the repair boot option can detect the install? 12:53:30 <nielsm> and bbiab, need to take care of laundry 12:53:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i've not, but that should probably be my next try 12:53:53 <michi_cc> LordAro: Should look okay, I even installed jekyll to check. Will still merge though. 12:54:48 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] michicc merged pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019 https://git.io/fjZhM 12:54:52 <Eddi|zuHause> "Win 10 1703" iso.. that should work, if i just dd it on a stick, right 12:55:07 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI https://git.io/fjXRq 12:56:31 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7654: Change: Update for French town name "Beaujolais" https://git.io/fjXRY 13:10:04 *** Samu has joined #openttd 13:15:06 <andythenorth> Horse 93% 13:21:31 <nielsm> what will happen if that number reaches 100% ? 13:23:47 <michi_cc> Anything looking wrong in https://www.staging.openttd.org/news/2019/07/14/monthly-dev-post.html ? 13:26:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI https://git.io/fjXRz 13:31:35 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 13:33:19 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: that will never happen 13:38:17 <andythenorth> it's true 13:38:32 <andythenorth> well, strictly, it's just counting sprites marked as complete 13:38:46 <andythenorth> it doesn't deal with design issues, codebase issues, bugs 13:47:12 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI https://git.io/fjXR1 13:48:57 *** Gumle2 has quit IRC 14:32:33 <Samu> gi 14:33:41 <Samu> scoring the last 6 rounds atm 14:35:54 <andythenorth> Horse 93% 14:36:00 <andythenorth> :P 14:36:18 <Eddi|zuHause> weren't we there like an hour ago? :p 14:36:24 <andythenorth> 351 trains :P 14:36:34 <andythenorth> each 1% is a few trains to draw :P 14:37:03 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should switch metrics? :p 14:37:07 <andythenorth> might be time 14:37:33 <Eddi|zuHause> 90% done, time for the other 90% 14:38:10 <andythenorth> @calc 24 * 6 14:38:10 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 144 14:38:16 <andythenorth> @call 144 + 351 14:38:24 <andythenorth> @calc 144 + 351 14:38:24 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 495 14:38:38 <andythenorth> soon it will get worse :P 14:38:59 <andythenorth> 500 trains seems like a lot for one roster eh :P 14:39:17 *** gelignite has quit IRC 14:39:22 <Eddi|zuHause> if we add views, your whole project will collapse under its own weight :p 14:39:44 <andythenorth> we probably won't though 14:39:54 <andythenorth> at some point compile time inhibits additions 14:39:57 <andythenorth> also 14:41:01 <andythenorth> "Iron Horse is a minimalist train set" 14:41:06 <andythenorth> not 14:41:55 <Eddi|zuHause> "perfection is not achieved when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove" 14:42:21 <andythenorth> that 14:42:53 <andythenorth> it's a very subtle quote 14:43:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i probably mangled it a bit 14:44:02 <andythenorth> if I could find a way, I'd remove one whole generation 14:44:13 <andythenorth> but I tried it and it doesn't quite make sense 14:44:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that's your problem 14:45:53 <andythenorth> unusually I don't have many problems with Horse 14:46:07 <andythenorth> I just like deleting things :P 14:46:46 <andythenorth> I could remove some coach / freight wagons 14:47:01 <andythenorth> 'mistakes were made' 14:47:30 <andythenorth> I misunderstood cargo aging, so the wagon design is a little flawed 14:51:50 <Eddi|zuHause> ButRealism(tm) 14:52:25 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI https://git.io/fjX07 14:53:02 <andythenorth> strictly speaking, there are 6 luxury passenger coaches that could be deleted 14:53:10 <andythenorth> each with 4 graphical variants 14:53:12 <andythenorth> but eh 14:53:36 <andythenorth> it's also not clear that every generation needs 4 mail wagons :P 14:53:56 <andythenorth> hmm 6 mail wagons actually 14:54:23 <Eddi|zuHause> how many length paddings do you need? 14:54:50 <andythenorth> 'some' 14:56:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i think in CETS i have mail vans for passenger trains and mail vans for freight trains (what in other countries would be a caboose) 15:01:26 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency https://git.io/fhho4 15:01:45 <nielsm> still need to find a way to measure days (or ticks) spent waiting at a signal... 15:02:08 <nielsm> that works reliably and equally for block and path signals 15:02:45 <LordAro> something horrendously inefficient, like a counter per signal 15:02:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i wanted to add a few flags for which speed limit affects a train, you could incorporate that there (signal would impose a speed limit of 0) 15:03:47 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: the signal doesn't know whether a train is waiting on it 15:04:28 <nielsm> I still haven't understood the actual code path taken to pathfind a train past a signal 15:04:31 <LordAro> but what if it did? :p 15:04:44 <nielsm> it seems that for one of the types it needs to run through the code twice for some reason? 15:05:21 <nielsm> and the VRF_TRAIN_STUCK flag is only set for one of the types? 15:05:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i have some vague memory of dealing with that issue years ago with my "stuck trains" hack 15:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i should dig that up 15:06:25 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 15:06:59 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 15:07:01 <Eddi|zuHause> did i ever post that in the forum? 15:07:21 <nielsm> I don't know 15:08:37 <nielsm> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7353/commits/412d517ed2fdb4e6984cbd977a04a770fea86436 15:08:55 <nielsm> specifically Train::wait_counter increases at double speed for one signal type 15:09:00 <nielsm> (signal class?) 15:09:47 <nielsm> also that commit subtly changes something else that it shouldn't, see if you can spot it 15:17:29 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 15:21:58 *** APTX has joined #openttd 15:22:34 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 15:34:21 *** Samu has quit IRC 15:46:17 *** Gumle2 has quit IRC 15:46:21 *** Samu has joined #openttd 15:46:42 *** Samu has quit IRC 15:58:02 *** Samu has joined #openttd 15:58:51 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:59:20 *** APTX has quit IRC 15:59:30 *** APTX has joined #openttd 16:00:28 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:02:32 <nielsm> time for some testing! https://0x0.st/z9u6.jpg 16:02:56 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 16:04:47 <nielsm> okay this is probably "good enough" https://0x0.st/z9uI.jpg 16:05:14 <nielsm> after waiting at different types of signals for several months there is a slight difference between penalty accrued 16:05:18 <nielsm> but not a major difference 16:05:31 <andythenorth> Horse 94% 16:05:48 <nielsm> (the dark blue number below the "efficiency this year" line is the raw "potential cargotiles delivered" value) 16:07:12 <andythenorth> o_O 16:07:15 <andythenorth> very interesting 16:07:25 <andythenorth> feel like adding lifetime earnings? :P 16:07:28 <andythenorth> and ROI? :P 16:07:38 <nielsm> those could be interesting yes :) 16:08:13 <nielsm> even just a display of "earnings this year" in addition to the "profit this year" could be useful 16:09:51 <michi_cc> nielsm: short-circuited if statements with side effects, how nice :p 16:10:01 <nielsm> michi_cc yeah 16:10:17 <nielsm> well after some more analysis the side effect can safely be moved to the line above 16:10:34 <nielsm> nothing depends on the value apart from that code itself 16:11:01 <nielsm> iow. it's okay for the wait_counter to increment even for "wrong" settings of reverse_at_signals 16:14:49 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency https://git.io/fhho4 16:15:46 <Samu> 2 rounds remaining 16:15:58 <Samu> 1st and 2nd places are not yet decided :p so exciting 16:17:25 <nielsm> michi_cc: any opinions on this UI? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7353#issuecomment-487289027 16:20:05 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] michicc opened pull request #94: Create 2019-08-01-monthly-dev-post.md https://git.io/fjXEu 16:22:16 <michi_cc> nielsm: Make the vehicle text into two lines and combine the group stats to "Efficiency this (last) year: 76% (73%)" maybe? 16:26:35 <nielsm> can try that 16:26:40 <nielsm> how about the vehicle list itself? 16:36:03 <Samu> last round remaining, the round that was generated via random.org 16:36:13 <Samu> should pose some surprises 16:45:12 <andythenorth> 18 trains left to draw 16:48:11 <andythenorth> jenkins hates me :) https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/iron-horse/ 16:49:10 *** Gumle2 has quit IRC 16:51:51 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:51:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:53:38 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 16:53:39 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency https://git.io/fjXue 16:54:34 <Samu> round 47 completed 16:54:41 <Samu> and the tournament winner is... 16:55:05 <Samu> NoNoCAB !!!!!!!!! 16:55:22 <Samu> lies 16:55:25 <Samu> AIAI !!!!!!! 16:55:43 <michi_cc> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=85573 16:55:47 <Samu> AIAI v97 2407 16:55:47 <Samu> ; NoNoCAB v6 2377 16:56:03 <Samu> AIAI with 2407 points, NoNoCAB 2nd with 2377 points 16:57:53 <Samu> last place is WmDOT 16:58:05 <Samu> with 120 points 16:58:19 <nielsm> Samu: suggestions for next time: decide on a time limit per game ahead of time, so your running time isn't unbounded (maybe 50 or 100 years), decide on some fixed scenarios ahead of time and test each AI pairing in several different scenarios (doesn't have to be "scenario scenarios", just config and map) so the results are properly comparable 16:58:54 <nielsm> and decide on scoring rules before you begin the testing and figure out if you can make your GS collect some more interesting statistics during each game 17:00:10 <nielsm> maybe plan your scenarios so different qualities of AIs are tested, e.g. how well they perform on small maps, large maps, maps with lots of prebuilt roads, maps with lots of water, mountaneous maps, etc. 17:00:34 <nielsm> few/many industries 17:01:17 <Samu> i tried to diversify the worlds as most as I could 17:01:24 <Samu> the worlds generated 17:01:46 <nielsm> yes but if you test combination A vs B on a different scenario than combination A vs C, they the results of the two tests aren't really comparable 17:02:33 <nielsm> maybe A has an advantage in the first and a disadvantage in the second due to scenario differences, and you couldn't tell if A wins first and loses second because it's better or worse than B or C, or because of the different scenarios 17:03:15 <Samu> I know :( but then i'd be repeating the same config 17:03:22 <nielsm> yes 17:03:27 <nielsm> why is that bad? 17:03:39 <nielsm> it makes your comparison actually usable 17:03:56 <Samu> there isn't a single config that suits all ais properly 17:04:10 <nielsm> no of course not 17:04:12 <nielsm> that' 17:04:19 <nielsm> and that's something your testing can uncover 17:04:36 <nielsm> what configs and map types are well suited and poorly suited for each type 17:04:55 <Wormnest> Nice to see that NoNoCab did wel Samu :) 17:05:18 <Samu> Wormnest, WormAI on the other hand... 17:05:58 <Samu> 14th place with 1480 points 17:06:38 <Samu> the scoring rules wasn't something I planned ahead of time 17:07:07 <Samu> i had an idea how I would score them before I started, but then I realise my initial ideas wouldn't be too fair 17:07:09 <Wormnest> Oh well, I know it has its weaknesses and it doesn´t do all vehicle types yet 17:07:17 <Samu> that was in the middle of my 10th or so round 17:10:03 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ptfzehexg - final score, i have an excel file of all of this with more details, it's just that it's an online file, dont know if u can open it 17:11:31 <Samu> https://1drv.ms/x/s!Ah9vX-Q9n7IjigjxGip1K_SgIilv 17:13:22 <Samu> my AI finished 3rd place which makes me wonder how biased were my configs... 17:14:31 <Samu> who wants to download 730 MB of savegames? 17:15:45 <Wormnest> Any config will be biased 17:18:17 <Samu> nielsm, I'm quite surprised about EmotionAI and SimpleAI scores 17:18:32 <nielsm> Wormnest yeah, that's why my suggestion is to run every AI pairing on multiple configs and maps 17:18:37 <Samu> regarding the different combinations you mentioned 17:18:51 <Samu> they ended right where they should end 17:18:56 <Samu> next to each other 17:19:01 <Samu> they're basically the same AI 17:19:43 <Samu> I was kind of worried they'd be far apart from each other in the end, turns out they didn't 17:21:58 <Samu> as I was scoring this, the battle for first and 2nd places were always between AIAI and NoNoCAB 17:22:25 <Samu> it would be either of the two who would win 17:22:38 <Wormnest> nielsm Yes, but still there´s so many settings that you can´t test all combinations 17:23:54 <Samu> Terron initially was seen as not a real contender, but it managed to reach 3rd place near the end 17:24:13 <Samu> my AI took that place in the last round, lucky 17:24:30 <Samu> my AI was mostly on 4th and 5th places 17:24:37 <Samu> turns out it ended 3rd 17:24:56 <Wormnest> In most of my tests Terron did fairly well so I´m not surprised 17:25:14 <Samu> it didn't start that well 17:25:29 <Samu> i mean 7th 8th and such, not really that high 17:25:44 <Samu> for me it was the big surprise 17:25:47 <Samu> Terron 17:26:41 <Samu> trAIns surprised me a big negatively 17:26:48 <Samu> I honestly expected more 17:27:28 <Samu> turns out the great times it was pulling out, were after a bankrupt 17:27:39 <Samu> had I not changed the scoring rules 17:27:45 <Samu> it would probably rank higher 17:33:58 <Samu> @calc 70 * 47 17:33:59 <DorpsGek> Samu: 3290 17:34:12 <Samu> @calc 2407/3290 17:34:12 <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.731610942249 17:35:57 <Samu> do I post the savegames, I mean is there any interest? 17:36:10 <Samu> 730 MB to the forum seems massive 17:36:26 <peter1138> I don't think anyone cares, no. 17:37:20 <nielsm> you can put them in a google drive or onedrive shared folder and link that 17:38:56 <peter1138> Ever the pragmatist :D 17:44:50 <Samu> synchronizing 17:44:54 <Samu> to onedrive 17:47:01 <Samu> how do i share folders with onedrive 17:48:32 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Ben79487 commented on issue #7655: Cheat window date '<' arrow incremements date https://git.io/fjXzI 17:48:35 <Samu> nielsm, https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah9vX-Q9n7IjjCp_bPR1lURTE6dA?e=X7rVOa 17:48:39 <Samu> does this link work? 17:49:02 <nielsm> I can open it and list the files 17:49:17 <nielsm> and download a random file from it too 17:49:25 <Samu> it's still syncing 17:50:40 <nielsm> so yes that works 17:50:49 <Samu> thx 17:51:56 <Samu> i should post the OneNote file too 17:52:04 <Samu> has some additional detains 17:52:06 <Samu> details 17:52:13 <Samu> like who vs who in each round 17:54:18 <Samu> hmm how do i share one note stuff? 17:55:20 <Samu> can only share via email? that sucks 17:57:50 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:59:33 <Samu> nielsm: can u try this link? https://1drv.ms/o/s!Ah9vX-Q9n7IjhHheJyvAuHltAA-5 17:59:48 <nielsm> error 18:00:05 <Samu> t.t 18:00:28 <Samu> https://1drv.ms/o/s!Ah9vX-Q9n7IjhHheJyvAuHltAA-5 18:00:41 <nielsm> same 18:00:55 *** Gumle2 has quit IRC 18:01:04 <Samu> okay, must think 18:02:32 <Samu> Edit link: https://1drv.ms/o/s!Ah9vX-Q9n7IjhHgGPNqMh69THrk8 plz dont change anything 18:02:42 <Samu> View link: https://1drv.ms/o/s!Ah9vX-Q9n7IjhHheJyvAuHltAA-5 18:02:53 <Samu> if neither works, i dunno what to do 18:12:39 <Wormnest> All of those OneNote links work for me 18:31:24 *** Smedles_ has quit IRC 18:32:47 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 19:03:34 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 19:05:59 <Samu> topic: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=85575 19:06:42 <Samu> one final thing I wanna do, count all victories/losses, regardless of score 19:11:43 <nielsm> look at my beautiful art: https://0x0.st/z9QY.jpg 19:11:54 <nielsm> (station window ideas) 19:16:25 <Samu> :) 19:16:35 <Samu> use paint 19:17:19 <nielsm> that only works when I already have a very good idea of what I want, I put too much work into details then 19:17:35 <nielsm> hand drawn lets me focus more on form 19:19:34 <andythenorth> sketch ftw 19:19:45 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7540: Change: New layout for the Station view window https://git.io/fjXzH 19:34:32 <Samu> most first places 19:34:35 <Samu> haha 19:34:37 <Samu> my AI wins 19:58:37 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 20:08:38 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 20:09:15 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 20:26:11 <Samu> AIAI v97 2407 66 70 68 46 68 66 66 58 42 64 66 56 18 1 66 64 2 15 52 54 70 36 50 66 2 16 46 70 62 15 66 62 58 62 2 64 62 70 12 66 66 68 60 70 48 68 62 20:26:16 <Samu> hmm 20:31:17 <Samu> how do I create cells on the forum? 20:31:53 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:34:07 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gymnasiast commented on pull request #7540: Change: New layout for the Station view window https://git.io/fjXgn 20:34:29 <andythenorth> nielsm: picture tells 1000 words? :) 20:36:48 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:06:21 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:37:48 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 21:38:12 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 22:03:25 <Samu> just noticed something 22:03:48 <Samu> @calc 12 + 1*23 22:03:48 <DorpsGek> Samu: 35 22:04:02 <Samu> @calc 70 - 2*23 22:04:02 <DorpsGek> Samu: 24 22:05:09 <Samu> if all games are bankruptless, score goes from 70 to 24 22:05:26 <Samu> if all games are bankrupted, score goes from 35 to 12 22:05:36 <Samu> there's a small overlap there 22:06:47 <Samu> too late to change the scores now, i guess it's fine anyway 22:07:35 <Samu> just found an AI which had 24 points twice, but one was from winning bankruptless, the other was from winning with bankrupt 22:10:01 <Samu> probably there were so many bankrupted victories in that round, 13+ 22:10:19 <Samu> 12 + 1*12 22:10:28 <Samu> @calc 12 + 1*12 22:10:28 <DorpsGek> Samu: 24 22:10:42 <Samu> yeah, 13 22:20:44 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:47:11 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:20:29 <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=85575&p=1223464#p1223464 23:20:41 <Samu> how do i make the code part show entirely?