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joined #openttd 07:51:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 07:59:56 *** ookfof[m] has joined #openttd 08:00:04 *** leward[m] has quit IRC 08:00:20 *** gretel[m] has quit IRC 08:00:37 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:01:02 <andythenorth> 'while' in nml 08:01:03 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Main 08:01:12 <andythenorth> curious how that could ever be a thing 08:01:25 * andythenorth proposes deleting the wiki entry 08:13:23 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:44:21 <peter1138> Reimplement NewGRF in 6502. 08:47:40 <andythenorth> is that an XML namespace? 08:54:18 <dwfreed> not sure if trolling or serious 08:59:14 *** erle- has joined #openttd 09:02:10 *** phil[m] has joined #openttd 09:02:27 *** jeeg[m] has joined #openttd 09:02:37 *** ciet[m] has joined #openttd 09:02:48 *** paulus[m] has joined #openttd 09:10:45 *** cacheerror[m] has joined #openttd 09:14:45 *** hamstonkid[m] has joined #openttd 09:20:12 *** blikjeham[m] has joined #openttd 09:20:50 <LordAro> reimplement newgrf in 68k 09:28:18 <andythenorth> reimplement newgrf as AWS lamda 09:28:30 <andythenorth> LAMBDA 09:28:34 * andythenorth always gets it wrong 09:31:34 *** rudolfs[m] has joined #openttd 09:32:03 *** glothit7ok[m] has joined #openttd 09:32:44 <_dp_> reimplement newgrf in openttd train logic :p 09:34:54 <andythenorth> reimplement in MPEG 2 09:36:04 *** guru3_ has quit IRC 09:36:19 *** guru3 has joined #openttd 09:37:00 *** ist5shreawf[m] has joined #openttd 09:41:15 <LordAro> https://twitter.com/joshgiersch/status/1367586729033486342?s=19 09:43:31 *** igor[m]2 has joined #openttd 09:48:06 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 09:48:27 *** rptr_ has joined #openttd 09:51:38 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:01:56 *** TrueBrain has quit IRC 10:01:59 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd 10:07:20 *** dag[m] has joined #openttd 10:10:03 *** jjavah0lic has quit IRC 10:13:56 *** lastmikoi has quit IRC 10:14:57 *** lastmikoi has joined #openttd 10:27:24 *** linda[m] has joined #openttd 10:35:48 *** dekeract[m] has joined #openttd 10:36:47 *** amal[m] has joined #openttd 10:37:29 *** fiddeldibu[m] has joined #openttd 10:37:58 *** hylshols7qui[m] has joined #openttd 10:40:52 *** Xaroth has quit IRC 10:41:14 *** Xaroth has joined #openttd 10:44:31 *** menelaos[m] has joined #openttd 10:46:44 *** moll has quit IRC 10:46:45 *** moll has joined #openttd 10:48:13 *** freu[m] has joined #openttd 11:00:13 *** josef[m]1 has joined #openttd 11:02:51 *** johanna[m] has joined #openttd 11:08:23 *** magdalena[m] has joined #openttd 11:17:13 *** elliot[m] has joined #openttd 11:20:43 *** leward[m] has joined #openttd 11:20:48 *** gretel[m] has joined #openttd 11:55:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] silpol opened pull request #28: Add: Polish (pl_PL) and Finnish (fi_FI) translations ( OpenTTD/OpenSFX#3 ) https://git.io/JqJp8 12:03:30 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 12:03:43 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 12:04:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] orudge commented on pull request #28: Add: Polish (pl_PL) and Finnish (fi_FI) translations https://git.io/JqJpA 12:07:58 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 12:11:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] silpol commented on issue #3: Documenting original license of sounds https://git.io/JtnIN 12:19:31 *** Wuzzy has joined #openttd 12:21:40 *** CornsMcGowan[m] has quit IRC 12:21:43 *** CornsMcGowan[m] has joined #openttd 12:34:38 *** CornsMcGowan[m] has quit IRC 12:34:38 *** Xaroth has quit IRC 12:34:38 *** lastmikoi has quit IRC 12:34:38 *** guru3 has quit IRC 12:34:38 *** rudolfs[m] has quit IRC 12:34:38 *** ciet[m] has quit IRC 12:34:38 *** erle- has quit IRC 12:34:38 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:34:38 *** ookfof[m] has quit IRC 12:34:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 12:34:38 *** Aileen[m] has quit IRC 12:34:38 *** Heiki[m] has quit IRC 12:34:38 *** udo[m] has quit IRC 12:34:38 *** jact[m] has quit IRC 12:34:38 *** ket has quit IRC 12:34:38 *** joey[m] has quit IRC 12:34:49 *** erle- has joined #openttd 12:34:52 *** guru3 has joined #openttd 12:35:01 *** Xaroth has joined #openttd 12:35:02 *** lastmikoi has joined #openttd 12:35:28 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:35:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 12:39:51 *** ket has joined #openttd 12:42:29 *** ookfof[m] has joined #openttd 12:43:52 *** joey[m] has joined #openttd 12:46:48 *** udo[m] has joined #openttd 12:52:54 *** jact[m] has joined #openttd 13:08:31 *** rptr_ has joined #openttd 13:09:35 *** Heiki[m] has joined #openttd 13:15:45 <peter1138> SALAD TIME 13:16:36 *** Cursarion has quit IRC 13:16:38 *** Cursarion has joined #openttd 13:17:12 *** CornsMcGowan[m] has joined #openttd 13:19:00 *** argoneus has quit IRC 13:19:08 *** argoneus has joined #openttd 13:20:37 *** Aileen[m] has joined #openttd 13:25:06 <andythenorth> YES 13:25:12 *** rudolfs[m] has joined #openttd 13:33:59 <peter1138> I supplemented it with a non-Ginster's Cornish pasty. 13:34:08 <peter1138> (i.e. it as good) 13:34:11 <peter1138> +w 13:34:56 <andythenorth> hmm 13:35:00 <andythenorth> or macaroni cheese 13:35:02 * andythenorth considers 13:38:18 <peter1138> Do it. 13:41:32 <andythenorth> thanks 13:41:34 <andythenorth> I shall 13:42:11 *** ciet[m] has joined #openttd 13:49:40 *** jeremy[m] has quit IRC 13:49:56 *** einar[m] has quit IRC 13:51:29 <andythenorth> ok I did 13:51:37 <andythenorth> seems to have worked 14:03:10 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:12:26 <TrueBrain> how did it make you feel? 14:25:40 *** Tulitomaatti has quit IRC 14:25:53 *** Tulitomaatti has joined #openttd 14:26:30 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 14:26:48 <andythenorth> happy 14:30:18 <FLHerne> andythenorth: It does exist in nmlc, but I have no idea if anyone's used it... 14:30:41 <andythenorth> what does it do? :o 14:33:11 <FLHerne> Well, it's a `while` loop, you can loop on a parameter and increment it or whatever to execute some statements repeatedly 14:33:30 * FLHerne tries to determine what statements can be put in a loop and if those can do anything useful there 14:37:40 <FLHerne> It looks like you can put most statements in it, but most of the useful ones will fail if the loop executes more than once because you can't use the same ID twice :p 14:38:11 <FLHerne> I suspect there was some plan to make this useful 14:51:41 <dihedral> hey hey 14:52:21 <peter1138> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-56286719 14:54:53 *** jeremy[m] has joined #openttd 14:54:58 *** einar[m] has joined #openttd 14:57:52 <FLHerne> Wrong sprite offsets 15:16:36 *** ircer[m] has quit IRC 15:16:44 *** ircer[m] has joined #openttd 15:16:54 <andythenorth> yeah 15:17:00 <andythenorth> or sprite sorter issues 15:18:47 <Timberwolf> Needs a large bar of solid white off to the side for the full effect. 15:33:51 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:44:18 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 15:46:54 <andythenorth> someone should turn the bounding boxes on 15:46:55 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 15:48:49 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 15:58:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i hate you. 15:58:46 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: also, i'm 25 puzzles into https://www.janko.at/Raetsel/Zeltlager/001.a.htm 16:00:31 <Wolf01> I still prefer winmine :P 16:06:09 <peter1138> Rule 3: "Tents are neither orthogonally nor diagonally adjacent one tree;" 16:06:26 <peter1138> Should that not be "... another tent"? 16:08:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never read the english rules 16:09:20 <Eddi|zuHause> but yes, sounds like that should be "tent" 16:12:36 *** ad5twoknebor[m] has quit IRC 16:12:47 *** ad5twoknebor[m] has joined #openttd 16:27:16 *** labs[m] has quit IRC 16:27:18 *** labs[m] has joined #openttd 16:27:32 *** dude[m]1 has quit IRC 16:27:40 *** dude[m]1 has joined #openttd 16:29:24 *** albert[m] has quit IRC 16:29:32 *** albert[m] has joined #openttd 16:41:05 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause that was LordAro 16:41:14 <andythenorth> I deleted tents and trees, annoyed me 16:48:04 *** christoph[m]2 has quit IRC 16:48:09 *** christoph[m]2 has joined #openttd 16:59:34 *** didac has joined #openttd 17:01:21 *** didac has quit IRC 17:01:50 <peter1138> Turns out I already had a version installed, it's in Simon Tatham's puzzles, of course... 17:02:37 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:08:36 *** aperezdc has quit IRC 17:08:41 *** aperezdc has joined #openttd 17:11:47 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 17:13:25 *** rptr_ has joined #openttd 17:27:23 <FLHerne> Timberwolf: nmlc ought to warn you about the solid white :p 17:31:14 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:31:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:35:14 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:43:32 *** Westie has quit IRC 17:44:04 *** Westie has joined #openttd 17:45:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #153: [is_IS] Translator access request https://git.io/JqfBq 17:52:39 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 17:52:39 *** albert[m] has quit IRC 17:52:39 *** dude[m]1 has quit IRC 17:52:39 *** labs[m] has quit IRC 17:52:39 *** ad5twoknebor[m] has quit IRC 17:52:39 *** ircer[m] has quit IRC 17:52:39 *** rudolfs[m] has quit IRC 17:52:39 *** argoneus has quit IRC 17:52:39 *** Heiki[m] has quit IRC 17:52:39 *** jact[m] has quit IRC 17:52:39 *** udo[m] has quit IRC 17:52:39 *** joey[m] has quit IRC 17:52:39 *** ookfof[m] has quit IRC 17:52:45 *** argoneus has joined #openttd 17:53:00 *** rptr_ has joined #openttd 17:57:23 *** ookfof[m] has joined #openttd 18:00:44 *** udo[m] has joined #openttd 18:02:49 *** joey[m] has joined #openttd 18:03:36 *** Heiki[m] has joined #openttd 18:06:16 *** jact[m] has joined #openttd 18:10:13 *** rudolfs[m] has joined #openttd 18:11:48 *** tonyfinn[m] has quit IRC 18:19:16 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:20:04 *** LordAro has quit IRC 18:20:05 *** LordAro has joined #openttd 18:27:12 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 18:27:34 *** rptr_ has joined #openttd 18:37:24 *** yur3shmukcik[m] has quit IRC 18:44:43 *** ircer[m] has joined #openttd 18:48:50 <TrueBrain> "April 1 joke for sure; a game from 2004 will be released on steam April 1. April 1 joke for sure" 18:49:03 <TrueBrain> guess it is easier to comment on Steam than to do some bare minimum research :D :D 18:51:28 <dwfreed> I mean, I would still never release on April 1 18:51:35 <dwfreed> Day is cursed 18:51:56 *** albert[m] has joined #openttd 18:52:04 *** ad5twoknebor[m] has joined #openttd 18:52:09 <TrueBrain> same with any Friday the 13th? :P 18:52:30 <andythenorth> what does Reddit think? 18:55:25 <TrueBrain> the problem with that question, it is like dividing by zero 18:55:35 <TrueBrain> every answer becomes valid all at once, while yet none of them really are 18:58:14 *** dude[m]1 has joined #openttd 18:58:29 *** labs[m] has joined #openttd 19:00:07 <frosch123> february 29th is a funnier date 19:00:20 *** tonyfinn[m] has joined #openttd 19:00:25 <TrueBrain> releasing once every 4 years ... would make release cycles easier 19:01:40 *** nartir[m] has quit IRC 19:02:32 <frosch123> there was an elementary school teacher who got annoyed about the children always asking about her birthday, so she tried to wave them off by naming the 29th, because there was none in that year... turns out the children prepared a present for 1st of march :p 19:03:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JqUzE 19:03:03 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 19:03:19 <frosch123> but well, i actually know two people born on 29th my now 19:03:32 <frosch123> *by 19:05:32 *** ookfof[m] has quit IRC 19:05:35 <TrueBrain> I know none :P 19:06:18 <TrueBrain> hmm .. can you change video-drivers while the game is running, or does it need a restart? Wondering about making a "Video" setting GUI that allows you to select video-driver, blitter, etc .. just so people can use non-OpenGL if that works better for them 19:06:32 <frosch123> i was clever, i waited until someone else made the "it's your 10th birthday" joke, just to see how annoyed they are about that reoccuring joke after 40 years 19:06:48 <frosch123> TrueBrain: ottd can switch blitters 19:06:57 <TrueBrain> blitters I know, but complete video drivers? 19:07:04 <frosch123> fullscreen toggle mostly does a full reset of the video driver 19:07:06 <TrueBrain> I guess none have a shutdown routine, not really 19:07:20 <TrueBrain> but it should be doable, I guess 19:07:30 <TrueBrain> pretty sure I won't get that done for 1.11, but maybe good for UI rewrite :P 19:07:43 <michi_cc> Many commercial games solve similar problems with a full restart (possibly in conjunction with some loader). 19:07:58 <TrueBrain> yeah, that needs a secondary loader most of the time 19:08:06 <frosch123> i think even factorio has settings that only take effect after restart 19:08:13 <frosch123> stuff like video memory usage 19:08:15 *** yur3shmukcik[m] has joined #openttd 19:08:25 <TrueBrain> well, on Steam we can offer settings on startup 19:08:44 <frosch123> also windows users are used to haveing to restart for every silly thing 19:08:45 <TrueBrain> but I think we mostly can change videodrivers, I am just not sure if we have code in all to destroy the main window :P 19:08:57 <nielsm> yeah switching drivers without a full restart isn't going to work right now 19:08:57 <peter1138> So, er, do I get a takeaway, or just continue to eat biscuits? 19:09:03 <frosch123> openttd does not need a reboot for anythign 19:09:03 *** tokai has joined #openttd 19:09:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 19:09:19 <nielsm> I tried implementing switching music driver at runtime a good while back, and had massive problems with it 19:09:25 <TrueBrain> I think it mainly involves: delete main window, and restart video driver 19:09:27 <nielsm> video driver would be even worse 19:09:33 <TrueBrain> nielsm: problems like? 19:09:42 <peter1138> In-game font setting when? 19:10:04 <nielsm> uh I don't even remember, just lots of crashes with invalid pointers 19:10:22 <TrueBrain> video-drivers are now rather clean .. so not sure they would have that problem honestly 19:10:38 <andythenorth> peter1138 deliveroo happened here 19:10:39 <andythenorth> burgers 19:10:41 <TrueBrain> but ... I guess we just have to try to really know :D 19:10:41 <nielsm> it really didn't like replacing or re-initing the active driver 19:10:57 <TrueBrain> switching from Windows to SDL might be painful 19:11:06 <peter1138> I had a burger last night, though it was an M&S burger. 19:11:09 <TrueBrain> possibly win32 to win32-opengl and back might be much easier 19:11:16 <frosch123> msvc released asan this week, so you can easier hunt dangling pointers now :) 19:11:38 <TrueBrain> are you suggesting I use MSVC for development?! THE INSULT! :P 19:11:56 *** udo[m] has quit IRC 19:11:58 <frosch123> you were born in the 80s, so it's possible 19:12:12 <TrueBrain> I am happy with WSL2 :P 19:12:36 *** pothyurf[m] has quit IRC 19:12:48 <frosch123> i developed a new strategy for msvc. when the code does not compile, i put the offending code snipped into godbolt, to get a helpful compilation error 19:12:52 *** bkilm[m] has quit IRC 19:12:57 <TrueBrain> anyway, it might be worth adding the ability to switch, just so those AMD GPU users can have a faster game :P 19:13:10 <TrueBrain> frosch123: that ... is just sad :P 19:13:13 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 19:13:16 *** nartir[m] has joined #openttd 19:13:47 <TrueBrain> but yeah, adding fonts and font-sizes might not be a bad idea either tbh 19:14:02 <frosch123> in my 11 years of linux-only i had some popcorn when people argued whether gcc or clang have better diagnostics 19:14:09 <frosch123> then i learned how far behind msvc is :p 19:14:14 <TrueBrain> :D 19:14:24 <peter1138> There was a UI patch many moons ago. Not from me even. 19:14:42 <TrueBrain> I did the SDL-OpenGL via MSVC (well, in Visual Studio Code, via MSYS, but it was using MSVC compiler in the backend) 19:14:46 <TrueBrain> the errors were pretty clear to me 19:14:49 <TrueBrain> even the template ones 19:14:55 <TrueBrain> that is where GCC loses me ... template errors are the worst 19:15:06 <TrueBrain> like .. the error is on top .. followed by 2000 lines of random blablabla lines 19:15:12 <TrueBrain> I need to scroll back fucking GCC 19:15:30 <TrueBrain> never understood why compilers do not understand we only care about the first error 19:15:32 *** ookfof[m] has joined #openttd 19:15:35 <TrueBrain> the rest is most often just a result of that 19:16:01 <TrueBrain> but the intellisense or what you call it in VSCode is rather good for C++ 19:16:14 <TrueBrain> warns you in the code already about many issues before you even compile :D 19:18:52 *** udo[m] has joined #openttd 19:19:14 *** pothyurf[m] has joined #openttd 19:19:24 *** bkilm[m] has joined #openttd 19:20:28 *** jact[m] has quit IRC 19:20:55 *** rptr_ has joined #openttd 19:23:00 *** jact[m] has joined #openttd 19:24:52 *** didac has joined #openttd 19:25:16 *** rudolfs[m] has quit IRC 19:25:18 *** rudolfs[m] has joined #openttd 19:50:25 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/JGRennison/OpenTTD-patches/releases/tag/jgrpp-0.40.3 <- seems JGRPP is using the GHA workflows to produce binaries for all targets now :) 19:53:43 *** Markk has quit IRC 20:06:57 <andythenorth> hurrah 20:07:01 <andythenorth> circle of life is complete 20:08:01 <TrueBrain> too bad we cannot delegate secrets to forks, as that would allow him to sign the binary via our account :D 20:09:20 <TrueBrain> +macOS, somewhere in that sentence 20:10:17 <TrueBrain> LordAro: would you have some time this weekend to track that weird issue you described about the game stopping for a bit of time every so often? 20:10:28 <TrueBrain> requires a bunch of TICC/TOCC to find out what is going on 20:10:41 <glx> <TrueBrain> but the intellisense or what you call it in VSCode is rather good for C++ <-- it has some issues with mingw headers (and gcc) 20:11:01 <TrueBrain> glx: it is far from perfect; but it picks up .. 70% of my mistakes lately 20:11:05 <TrueBrain> 2 months ago it was like 20% 20:11:08 <TrueBrain> so it improved :D 20:13:42 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i get my bike back tomorrow, so depends entirely on the weather :p 20:14:09 <glx> and I'm talking about MSVC intellisense, but IIRC it's shared with VSCode 20:14:24 <TrueBrain> LordAro: haha, good priorities :D 20:17:26 *** arikover has joined #openttd 20:19:51 <andythenorth> hmm 20:19:55 <andythenorth> I played enough blitz 20:19:57 <andythenorth> now what? 20:20:18 <andythenorth> I have like 67% WR today, way above average, it can only get worse if I keep playing :P 20:22:13 *** arikover` has joined #openttd 20:23:32 *** orudge has quit IRC 20:23:32 *** orudge has joined #openttd 20:24:10 *** arikover has quit IRC 20:29:10 *** didac has quit IRC 20:41:08 *** _dp_ has quit IRC 20:41:37 *** dP has joined #openttd 20:41:38 *** dP is now known as _dp_ 20:51:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] silpol updated pull request #28: Add: Polish (pl_PL) and Finnish (fi_FI) translations https://git.io/JqJp8 20:52:36 *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC 20:53:00 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd 20:53:20 *** Soni has joined #openttd 20:53:27 <Soni> does openttd support wasm? 20:55:22 <frosch123> https://preview.openttd.org/pr8706/ <- does that answer your question? 20:56:17 <dwfreed> "the currently selected base graphics set is missing 2 sprites" 20:56:19 <dwfreed> lol 20:56:35 <frosch123> they were added last week, release is pending 20:56:50 <dwfreed> heh 20:58:37 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 21:00:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] silpol updated pull request #28: Add: Polish (pl_PL) and Finnish (fi_FI) translations https://git.io/JqJp8 21:03:42 <Soni> frosch123: sorry what? 21:03:56 <Soni> oh 21:03:58 <dwfreed> click the link :P 21:04:00 <Soni> frosch123: no like, for plugins 21:04:05 <dwfreed> no 21:04:16 <dwfreed> it's either all wasm or no wasm 21:05:11 <Soni> ah well, it was worth asking :/ 21:05:37 <andythenorth> wasm PR incoming when? 21:05:38 <TrueBrain> dwfreed: nah, that is not true :) 21:05:48 <TrueBrain> we could have made the scripting languages WASM too :P We didn't :D 21:05:53 * andythenorth wonders what exciting plugin vulns we could have 21:06:25 <TrueBrain> lua would have been a better fit 21:06:28 <TrueBrain> but owh well :D 21:07:45 <Soni> lua has exploits, wasm doesn't (yet) 21:07:52 <dwfreed> [citation needed] 21:07:54 <TrueBrain> that is a weird thing to say 21:08:19 <Soni> kinda hard to have exploits when you have no bindings 21:08:31 <Soni> lua has bytecode loading exploits 21:08:34 <TrueBrain> eeueuuuhhhhhhh .. wuth? 21:08:38 <TrueBrain> that makes little to no sense :) 21:08:42 <Xaroth> What have you been smoking? 21:08:53 <Soni> wasm is just a bytecode format/VM. it doesn't have bindings. 21:10:00 <Soni> WASI is meant to be the bindings of choice for many tasks but it's... not yet finished and no browser is gonna support it. (emscripten provides an WASI snapshot implementation in JS) 21:10:19 <andythenorth> time to port newgrf 21:11:46 <Soni> it's up to the embedder to not read past the wasm memory and stuff, but wasm itself is fully sandboxed 21:12:56 <Soni> anyway, is there such a thing as an OpenTTD-based mars exploration game? 21:13:20 <Soni> with a story 21:18:33 <andythenorth> Factorio? 21:18:52 <nielsm> as far as I know, nobody have made (and completed) anything with an actual story based on openttd 21:19:43 <nielsm> assuming you mean something with an authored story that gives objectives to the player, and advances the story when the player completes the objectives 21:20:18 <frosch123> Soni: https://www.unibw.de/patch/papers/usenixsecurity20-wasm.pdf 21:20:19 <nielsm> actually why did I reach for "story" there 21:21:09 <nielsm> but look for the Wasteland set of mods 21:21:43 <frosch123> nielsm: "silicon valley" has a "story" :) 21:21:50 <nielsm> it tries to build a post-apocalyptic world with some (implicit) reconstruction goals 21:21:55 <frosch123> or, let's call it a "prologue" 21:22:27 <Soni> frosch123: just because you can exploit things running inside wasm doesn't mean you can exploit things outside of wasm 21:22:35 <Soni> so it does provide a sandbox/security barrier 21:22:42 <Soni> and that's all that matters 21:22:44 <nielsm> Soni: I've aired the idea to completely rework all the modding features of ottd in wasm once or twice before, but it would be a gigantic task 21:22:51 <Soni> don't trust the wasm more than you have to :) 21:23:00 <frosch123> Soni: yes, just as much as a cpu protects your code from accessing your toaster 21:23:23 <Soni> "deleting your in-game currency" is an acceptable failure mode, "ransoming your hard drive" isn't 21:23:38 <TrueBrain> nielsm: always the question what benefit it adds; I wondered the same with moving to lua :) 21:23:49 <frosch123> wasm provides no security within the vm, so it provides no security for add-ons using your openttd as bit-coin miner, or stealing your game-internal passwords, and more 21:23:55 <Xaroth> wasm is not a magical unicorn, Soni. 21:24:16 <Soni> frosch123: the key here is "within the VM" 21:24:32 <Soni> don't shove your passwords into the VM. don't expose networking to the VM. 21:24:42 <frosch123> exactly, but "within the VM" is pointless if you have everythign inside the vm 21:24:48 <Soni> have multiple VMs. 21:25:31 <Soni> wasm definitely provides the security barrier so misbehaving software can't affect things in the outside world 21:26:20 <Soni> you can't just increase your code's security by running it in wasm, but you can increase it by running wasm in it (i.e. embedding wasm) instead of using a custom bug-ridden implementation of lisp 21:26:20 <Xaroth> They thought that of CPUs as well, yet there have been exploits there too... 21:26:33 <TrueBrain> they said the same about VMWare, XenServer, Hyper-V, .... pretty sure that is just true till someone exploits it :D 21:27:03 <Xaroth> It's not "It's exploit-free", it's "They've not YET found any exploits" 21:27:17 <Soni> TrueBrain: eh, well, Bochs doesn't have unpatchable exploits at least 21:27:30 <Xaroth> YET. 21:27:32 <Soni> unlike things that rely on the hardware to be patchable 21:27:34 <Xaroth> keyword "Yet" 21:27:35 <TrueBrain> that just means people are not trying hard enough :D 21:28:10 <andythenorth> lol, it's a different argument, but I remember how many web-devs said 'but docker containers are secure' 21:28:11 <andythenorth> lol 21:28:27 <Soni> well, Bochs is an emulator. you can probably find a 0day or two but you're not gonna require someone to buy a new CPU to fix it 21:28:55 <andythenorth> anyway WASM for newgrf 21:28:56 <andythenorth> profit 21:28:57 <TrueBrain> so happy they invented microcode ... in the 80s :P 21:29:20 <Soni> TrueBrain: and yet... [insert spectre, meltdown, friends, etc] 21:29:29 <TrueBrain> and yet ... microcode updates! 21:29:38 <Xaroth> ^ 21:29:39 <Soni> don't solve the problem 21:30:04 <Soni> (not always/not fully) 21:30:31 <Soni> the best way to sandbox code is to lie about the environment 21:30:51 <Soni> a la Bochs and wasm 21:31:08 <Soni> luckily nobody's throwing DRM at wasm yet... 21:34:39 <Soni> (running DRM *in* wasm would be a good idea tho) 21:50:40 * andythenorth plays OpenTTD 21:50:57 <TrueBrain> could you please not? we talked about that andythenorth :P 21:51:06 * andythenorth plays Factorio 21:51:16 <TrueBrain> much better 21:51:21 <frosch123> noone believes you that 21:51:34 <frosch123> TrueBrain: don't believe people on the internet 21:52:05 <andythenorth> so what does maximum height do? 21:52:08 * andythenorth starting a game 21:52:12 <andythenorth> I want a map of Cornwall 21:52:14 <andythenorth> but from TGP 21:52:19 <andythenorth> 128x128 21:52:30 <frosch123> set it to 64, be done with it 21:52:30 <TrueBrain> try arctic 21:53:32 <andythenorth> I heard it's too flat 21:53:33 <andythenorth> hmm 21:53:44 <andythenorth> did the game always return to title screen whilst generating map? 21:53:50 <andythenorth> I don't remember that 21:54:28 <frosch123> no, it shows the map while generating 21:55:17 <frosch123> yeah, there is something weird new 21:55:28 <TrueBrain> who broke what?! 21:55:48 <frosch123> i recently noticed it when loading a game, but assumed it was always like that 21:56:04 <frosch123> TrueBrain: it's not really broken, it's just unusual, and slightly confusing 21:56:19 <TrueBrain> the "what" is not that clear to me :D 21:56:35 <TrueBrain> ah, no, I know what you mean 21:56:41 <frosch123> when you load a game or generate map, ottd will close the load game window/mapgen window 21:56:44 <TrueBrain> the bootstrap fix broke other stuff agian :P 21:56:51 <frosch123> block for a while, and then continue 21:57:05 <TrueBrain> it should freeze the screen on the last you saw 21:57:10 <TrueBrain> but it does 1 more window update :P 21:57:10 <frosch123> it's confusing because there is a split second, when you think it aborted your action 21:57:26 <andythenorth> oh I can't gist an m4v 21:57:27 <andythenorth> lame 21:57:28 <TrueBrain> yup 21:57:40 <TrueBrain> the "prober" fix is to show a new window "loading..", "aborting.." etc I think 21:57:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production and transported with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JLHah 21:57:43 <TrueBrain> but for now, we lock the screen :D 21:58:10 <TrueBrain> no clue why the code doing that broke again 21:58:14 <frosch123> it may also look fine, if the intro window is hidden 21:58:38 <frosch123> just in case that is easier to achieve :p 21:58:48 <TrueBrain> nah, there was already code taking care of this 21:58:52 <TrueBrain> just need to figure out why it broke again 21:58:52 <andythenorth> hmm alpinist means I don't get industries in the right places 21:58:54 <andythenorth> lol maps 21:58:55 <TrueBrain> I suspect the bootstrap fix 21:59:01 <TrueBrain> will check it out this weekend :) 21:59:36 <TrueBrain> same issue is when aborting a game btw 22:00:41 <andythenorth> towns build tunnels now? :) 22:01:21 <andythenorth> this is cool, it means they extend into nearby valleys 22:01:24 <frosch123> ah, tunnels... i wondered about a combined spec for NewBridges and NewTunnels 22:01:30 <frosch123> tunnels with speed limits 22:01:44 <andythenorth> o_O 22:02:02 <frosch123> it's weird that tunnels have no speed limits, isn't it? 22:02:38 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 22:02:58 <frosch123> so, i considered allowing to define new tunnel types with different length and speed limits 22:03:34 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 22:03:35 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046 22:03:40 <frosch123> bridges are not part of road/rails, so imo tunnels shouldn't either 22:04:55 <LordAro> what an odd conversation 22:05:03 <LordAro> OTTD doesn't use lua either 22:05:20 <frosch123> i hate lua :p we had that conversation multiple times 22:06:41 <TrueBrain> is that why I keep bringing it up? :D 22:06:45 <TrueBrain> <3 22:07:06 <frosch123> i need a bot. when someone says "lua", it replies with "ruby" 22:07:38 <andythenorth> oops I hit fast forward 22:07:48 <TrueBrain> frosch123: NOOOO, that will be evil 22:07:48 <frosch123> new game disaster? 22:09:38 <andythenorth> frosch123 does that unpick the NRT tunnels headache? :P 22:09:40 <andythenorth> oof 22:10:36 <frosch123> it's a merger of nrt tunnels and someone trying to add old-style-bridge support to nml 22:13:45 <glx> let's readd gpmi :) 22:13:56 <TrueBrain> now you just want to hurt me :'( 22:13:59 <TrueBrain> :D 22:14:02 <TrueBrain> it supported TCL! 22:14:05 <TrueBrain> now that was a scripting language! 22:14:20 <TrueBrain> cleanest embedded language I ever worked with .. 22:14:23 <TrueBrain> Python being the worst :P 22:18:14 *** Samu has quit IRC 22:19:13 <frosch123> andythenorth: oh, also did you see that newgrf that uses railtype to implement dragable objects :p 22:19:25 <andythenorth> no what? :P 22:19:43 <andythenorth> that sounds like a comedic hack 22:21:38 <frosch123> aw, my ipv6 is broken again, content download takes ages again 22:21:53 <frosch123> we need c++23 22:22:30 <nielsm> will C++23 fix your ipv6? 22:22:36 <TrueBrain> snap 22:23:00 <frosch123> it may add asyncio for properly resolving dns in parallel 22:23:01 <TrueBrain> it is surprising how poorly IPv6 works worldwide still .. 22:23:54 <frosch123> i could reboot my router, but then i am offline in that time :p 22:24:03 <TrueBrain> WHAT TO DO WITH THOSE 2 MINUTES! :P 22:24:04 <TrueBrain> :D 22:25:29 <frosch123> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1237666&sid=514a17fd087e71a65e9be34f9d71c95e#p1237666 <- andythenorth: those are implemented as tracktypes 22:25:40 <frosch123> so clearly people will now request 64k railtypes 22:25:50 <andythenorth> oic 22:25:53 <andythenorth> yes that has happened 22:26:02 <andythenorth> it was discussed on discord this morning 22:28:43 <frosch123> they allow building bridges which are covered with ground tiels 22:28:55 <frosch123> so you can probably fake underground rail with them 22:29:25 <_dp_> did anyone implement power lines as tram types already? 22:29:36 <frosch123> which leads to "houses on bridges" or so... 22:32:16 <andythenorth> https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/peterjackson.jpg 22:36:01 <supermop_Home> houses on log flumes 22:37:29 * andythenorth tries playing FIRS Basic 22:37:35 <andythenorth> not very interesting 22:37:50 * peter1138 playing Trees. Damn it. 22:37:52 <frosch123> play XIS instead? 22:38:50 <andythenorth> hmm 22:38:56 <supermop_Home> andythenorth im playing firs arctic basic n a 64x64 map to try to get cute RV pictures 22:38:56 * andythenorth avoided Trees 22:39:11 <andythenorth> I'm playing temperate basic on 64x64 to test my attention span 22:39:18 <andythenorth> turns out my attention span is 3 trains 22:39:42 <supermop_Home> i have 0 trains and 1 ship so far 22:39:48 <supermop_Home> all the rest trucks 22:42:11 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:42:34 <andythenorth> frosch starts a trend 22:42:35 * andythenorth naptime 22:42:37 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:42:39 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:44:11 <supermop_Home> well i just opened a beer 22:44:31 <supermop_Home> but i have a good 5 hours to catch up to you guys 22:57:06 <peter1138> :D 23:08:39 *** arikover` has quit IRC 23:16:55 *** gelignite has quit IRC 23:22:25 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:31:57 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 23:36:25 <supermop_Home> do i open another hazy ipa? or a different hazy ipa? or a winter ipa? or a sour? 23:36:39 <supermop_Home> i don't every really like ipas