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Spread I guess. 10:37:00 <dP> yeah, pretty much the same as it was before #7235 10:42:42 <Samu> should I post an issue? 10:49:13 <LordAro> Samu: no 10:49:15 <LordAro> it's a limit. 10:49:41 <Samu> it was reached :( 10:50:12 <Samu> companies made about 2000/2200 ships each when it was reached 10:50:25 <LordAro> your point? 10:53:18 <Samu> can't realize my dreams 10:53:20 <Samu> :p 10:53:34 <LordAro> use fewer bouys 10:53:38 <LordAro> buoys* 10:54:03 <LordAro> assuming that's what is causing you to bump against the limit 10:54:06 <Samu> i place buoys every 20 tiles 10:54:17 <LordAro> that's super close 10:54:28 <LordAro> you could even make them clever and reuse buoys 10:54:41 <LordAro> nothing stopping you from using another company's buoys, afaik 10:56:42 <Samu> using another company's buoys, I considered it in the past, but ended up not pursuing it for some reason I can't recall now 10:56:51 <dP> do buoys use as much ram as stations btw? 10:57:02 <dP> I remember stations gobbling it like crazy 10:57:26 <Samu> something to do with how the other company manages the buoys 10:57:46 <dP> so increasing station pool may not be a good idea just for the ram 10:58:07 <Samu> and the possibility of momentaneously 0 ships using the buoy and that buoy being cleared 10:58:20 <Samu> only to be used a moment later 10:58:36 <Samu> but now not existing, would cause order issues 10:58:41 <LordAro> Samu: sure, you'd need to periodically check that all ships have a "good" set of orders, but not too difficult 10:58:54 <LordAro> besides, ~50 tiles should be fine, imo 10:59:40 <Samu> you're assuming the pathfinder can handle that distance, you'd be surprised 10:59:47 <Samu> but i can try 10:59:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #9536: Change: Deliver cargo to the closest industry first https://git.io/Jzn43 11:07:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #9536: Change: Deliver cargo to the closest industry first https://git.io/JznRw 11:08:36 *** Etua has quit IRC 11:10:48 <Samu> savegame with the limit reached, says about 4000 buoys for each company 11:11:07 <Samu> @calc 4000*15 11:11:08 <DorpsGek> Samu: 60000 11:11:24 <Samu> yeah, the rest is stations 11:11:37 <peter1138> I don't bother with buoys and my ships still get where they need to go. 11:14:09 <Samu> about 6-7 buoys per route 11:14:40 <Samu> you're lucky :) 11:14:52 <Samu> gonna try 50 distance between buoys 11:15:36 <LordAro> make sure your pathfinder is actually set to YAPF, i know you've fiddled with that in the past 11:22:28 <Samu> it is YAPF 11:23:01 <Samu> now running with 50 between buoys, 14 AI companies, will take the entire day 11:23:15 <Samu> let's see what happens 11:23:46 <peter1138> Testing the limits and you encounter the limits. Surprise. 12:05:14 *** glx has joined #openttd 12:05:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 12:08:20 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 12:19:01 *** Etua has joined #openttd 12:19:46 <Timberwolf> I would like to test a limit and encounter exactly the limit I expect, for the reason I thought. 12:23:18 <Samu> the test is to know if the limit is sufficient and not reach it 12:23:22 <Samu> :( 12:24:10 <LordAro> the limit is not a "you should never be able to reach this", it is a "it should be very hard to reach this" 12:25:06 <Samu> is there a quick way in code to count how many stations have been used so far? 12:25:13 <Samu> station id 12:25:25 <glx> the limit won't be increased just because one person reached it :) 12:25:51 <LordAro> OTTD is not Samu's personal playground 12:26:05 <LordAro> though Samu's personal playground is OTTD 12:26:07 <LordAro> ;) 12:27:28 <glx> the only way I see to count station is a station loop and a counter 12:28:13 <LordAro> current pool size? 12:28:17 <LordAro> _stations->size() or whatever? 12:32:08 <Samu> i can look at _station_pool->items? 12:32:36 <Samu> i'll figure it out 12:32:49 <glx> GetNumItems 12:33:02 <glx> don't directly access the field :) 12:33:41 <glx> Station::GetNumItems() 12:35:40 <glx> of course waypoints are included 12:36:56 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 12:37:38 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 12:40:42 <Samu> BaseStation::GetNumItems() 12:50:56 <Samu> 20757 with 1000 ships, already a bad sign :( 12:51:16 <Samu> i swear i increased the distance between buoys 12:53:24 <Samu> 301 water routes with 1223 buoys 12:53:29 <Samu> that's 602 docks 12:56:54 <Samu> got a savegame with a single company with 5000 rvs, 5000 ac, 5000 ships, it's using 5543 StationIDs 12:57:04 <Samu> @calc 5543 * 15 12:57:05 <DorpsGek> Samu: 83145 12:59:27 <Samu> the era is before hovercraft, so using slow ships, shorter routes, less buoys 13:01:32 <Samu> 3263 buoys, that's 5543-3263 = 2280 real stations 13:01:49 <Samu> that's for airports, mail trucks and buses 13:01:53 <Samu> and docks 13:02:08 <Samu> there's more buoys than all real stations together 13:50:15 *** roadt_ has quit IRC 13:50:57 *** roadt_ has joined #openttd 13:56:26 *** Wuzzy has joined #openttd 13:59:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] bsuseno opened issue #255: [id_ID] Translator access request https://git.io/JzcLX 14:20:29 <Samu> 38k stations and ~1900-2000 ships each company 14:21:04 <Samu> so far 14:36:10 <Samu> have yet to see if there are lost ships 14:36:38 <Samu> 50 between tiles doesn't inspire confidence on me 14:58:31 *** Etua has quit IRC 15:01:33 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 15:06:23 <Samu> this bug annoys me to no end https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9540 15:10:28 <Samu> i can't load a save and restart 15:28:19 <Samu> found some lost ships, suspicious of 50 not being enough 15:29:23 <Samu> 3 lost ships out of 30k 15:30:17 <Samu> and 2 other lost ships for something I caused, a bug in the AI, the route isn't 100% connected for some reason 15:30:51 *** ioangogo_ has joined #openttd 15:30:59 *** ioangogo has quit IRC 15:37:01 *** ioangogo has joined #openttd 15:40:24 *** ioangogo_ has quit IRC 15:44:41 *** ioangogo_ has joined #openttd 15:45:34 *** ioangogo has quit IRC 16:56:54 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 16:59:30 <nielsm> hmm... not a single submission for the title screen yet 17:02:48 <TrueBrain> Too complex? Too invisible? 17:03:00 <TrueBrain> You can ask the regulars if they will participate? 17:30:20 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:40:34 <Samu> omg, yapf sometimes surprises me https://i.imgur.com/YP3DUKc.png 17:40:43 <Samu> that ship is lost 17:42:09 <Samu> can't find a way from Dahill Buoy #2 at the top right of the image to Great Franingpool Central at the bottom left 17:42:28 <Samu> it went into a dead end and can't get out of there 17:43:07 <Samu> that's with 50 tiles distance between buoys 17:43:14 <Samu> LordAro, 17:44:50 <Samu> btw, I'm finding "vehicle lost" actually really useful 17:44:56 <Samu> that warning indication 17:52:02 <peter1138> What are those hovercraft doing on that river... 17:52:18 <peter1138> Does the side of the canal lock confuse it? 17:58:32 *** Flygon has quit IRC 18:39:59 <Samu> i think the issue is the curve penalties, mainly the 90 degrees one 18:40:29 <Samu> 60456 StationIDs used, almost at the limit 18:48:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JzCTc 18:48:08 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:57:30 <Samu> it perplexes me how some ships end up lost 18:58:16 <Samu> they probably end up in a canal lane when attempting to return back to the other destination 18:58:23 <Samu> lane leading to nowhere 18:58:42 <Samu> leading to open sea actually, and then they can't find their way back 19:31:33 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 19:41:43 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:51:16 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:56:33 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 19:56:35 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 19:56:35 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046 20:02:24 <Samu> limit has been finally reached! https://i.imgur.com/eY489m0.png 20:03:20 <Samu> 2800-3100 ships each company 20:36:46 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 20:41:35 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 20:41:35 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046 21:05:05 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:07:20 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:10:34 <nielsm> Samu: you may be interested in this https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...nielsmh:drawpf 21:11:13 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:11:14 <nielsm> it doesn't work properly in any other zoom than max, I don't understand why the drawing/zooming code scales things weirdly, and also I probably hooked into the wrong places to get the best possible info from the pf 21:11:28 <nielsm> but it might work as a framework to understand what goes on 21:21:24 <Samu> I'll take a look at it tomorrow, got no time today 21:24:18 <nielsm> but I can tell you right now that the pathfinder costs ("penalties") for tiles do not affect pathfinder being able to find or not find a destination, unless they're set so crazy that it leads the pf down completely wrong branches 21:24:56 <nielsm> but increasing pf.yapf.max_search_nodes from the default of 10k up to 100k made my test ship find its way 21:25:38 <FLHerne> well, the problem is that oceans are big and full of passable tiles with every possible track bit 21:25:40 <nielsm> I don't know why it needs that many node visits however, it seems either something is counting wrong, or it visits the same nodes/tiles too many times 21:25:57 <FLHerne> so even a small penalty on the 'right' path increases the number of nodes massively 21:26:38 <FLHerne> because it fills potentially hundreds of tiles on each side of the route, to the width that makes up for the penalty, before continuing the right way again 21:26:51 <glx> too many possible path on each water tile 21:28:38 <glx> I'm not even sure if crossing a visited tile from a different direction is detected (I hope it is) 21:29:58 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/-3xv.png the ship considers the tile area I've circled with red, to find the orange path 21:30:06 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:30:43 <nielsm> I guess because a tile can be visited from many directions it can count towards max nodes many times 21:32:29 <TrueBrain> Nodes are a tuple of tile and trackdir 21:32:35 <TrueBrain> Which doesn't really make sense for ships 21:32:59 <TrueBrain> Tile alone should be sufficient 21:33:13 <TrueBrain> I tried to fix that .. YAPF didn't like that :p 21:35:36 <glx> using exitdir alone could be better than trackdir, as many trackdir leads to the same exitdir 21:37:08 <glx> (but I don't really know the implementation) 21:37:30 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:40:28 <nielsm> hmm, my test ship here will find its way at 17k max search nodes but only after being lost for a third the way 21:41:24 <nielsm> I don't entirely understand how a non-solution is chosen as partial potential path when some other cases leads to it just circling around 21:42:24 <glx> final tile closer to destination ? 21:42:31 <TrueBrain> If it can't find a path, it just moves towards the target for a while 21:43:21 <nielsm> nah in my case here it didn't find a path (kept reporting as lost), but it was still choosing a path around the obstacle 21:43:40 <glx> moving toward the target might be the worst choice is some situations 21:43:55 <nielsm> I guess maybe it did find a node closer to the destination than the origin? 21:45:07 <nielsm> hmm... might it make sense to have a dynamic search range on ships? gradually increase the max nodes searched every time pathfinding fails, up to some hard max 21:45:25 <nielsm> actually no it won't 21:45:33 <nielsm> beause either it finds a path or it doesn't 21:46:51 <TrueBrain> Guess the only real solution is a proper ship PF .. or someone really understanding YAPF :p 21:49:11 <glx> maybe pf could draw a rail track on the tile when it runs 21:49:34 <glx> so we can see what it does 21:53:04 <TrueBrain> Chaosssss 22:02:40 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/-3xR.jpg what my above branch draws when zoomed all the way in 22:03:01 <nielsm> basically tile transitions considered and the lowest cost found for each tile 22:04:00 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/-3x7.jpg what it draws when not zoomed all the way in, basically the same except in the wrong place and with weird clipping effects 22:13:03 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:22:58 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:25:13 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:25:58 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:45:38 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 23:32:58 *** Wuzzy has quit IRC 23:38:40 *** Wormnest has quit IRC