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00:38:22 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 07:45:44 <andythenorth> hi hi 07:45:50 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:46:59 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:27:50 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 09:06:31 <planetmaker> grrr.... Ammler did something with redmine change? 09:07:11 <planetmaker> When I try to update (OpenGFX) issues, I get "Invalid form authenticity token" error after hitting 'send' instead of a confirmation of successfully updating an issue 09:15:00 <Ammler> and you are sure, your session is valid? 09:20:40 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:20:57 <planetmaker> I loged out and in anew. Same thing 09:21:00 <planetmaker> That was my first thought 09:22:25 <planetmaker> it's not like it's fast atm, either... :S 09:23:19 <planetmaker> anyway... seems to have been a transient phenomenon 09:23:23 <planetmaker> it's gone. Why ever. 09:23:41 <planetmaker> I didn't change anything since my last try. Just chatted up a few guys here on IRC ;-) 09:23:48 <planetmaker> s/up/with/ 09:23:50 <planetmaker> :-O 09:26:12 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Feature #885: Groundtile brack land (Toyland?) <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/885#change-2394> 09:26:29 <Ammler> planetmaker: ^ you code that in, I have no idea about that sprite 09:30:43 <planetmaker> he 09:30:46 <planetmaker> your sprite? 09:41:11 <Ammler> no that sand thing 09:41:26 <Ammler> the original looks quite other 09:41:29 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Feature #883: Office building improvement <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/883#change-2395> 10:12:03 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 10:14:53 * Ammler thinks, revision forced rebuild is worse than before 10:15:52 <planetmaker> well... but it's needed. 10:16:03 <planetmaker> If you hg up and you change the version string, you need to re-compile 10:16:11 <planetmaker> (or if you commit) 10:16:59 <Ammler> but only because of the version string in the newgrf? 10:17:36 <Rubidium> it changes the resulting nfo 10:17:44 <Rubidium> as such it gets compiled again 10:17:50 <Rubidium> the same happens with OpenTTD 10:17:56 <Ammler> Rubidium: no it doesn't 10:18:02 <Ammler> planetmaker: forces the rebuild 10:18:08 <Rubidium> okay, there is only influences rev.cpp, but still it has to recompile and link that 10:18:14 <planetmaker> Ammler: no, I only do, if the version changes 10:18:28 <planetmaker> and then I say "rebuild forced". 10:18:33 <Ammler> yep 10:18:34 <planetmaker> I don't force it always 10:18:47 <planetmaker> Only when needed 10:19:02 <Ammler> well, you force it only every update, also for non newgrfs 10:19:11 <Ammler> or where the version string has no influence 10:19:16 <planetmaker> but yes, it's more often than before. But that's where the old one failed 10:19:45 <planetmaker> there are 5 grf files where I could skip a re-build, that's opengfx base grfs. 10:20:07 <planetmaker> But how to know that it's not a newgrf which does need re-building (like the extra grf of opengfx)? 10:20:23 <Ammler> hmm, maybe we can disable that for opengfx? 10:20:28 <planetmaker> no 10:20:47 <planetmaker> Or we'll have a wrong extra newgrf at some stage. 10:20:52 <Ammler> no 10:20:55 <planetmaker> OpenGFX was the main reason I reworked it. 10:21:05 <Ammler> you could run make remake for example 10:21:45 <planetmaker> that has the same effect 10:21:50 <Ammler> releases and nightlies are made from fresh clones, so there is no influence either 10:22:09 <planetmaker> releases were always made by me or foobar... 10:22:29 <Ammler> so the only usage is for developing, where it does slow down 10:22:49 <Ammler> and while dev, you don't care about the version string 10:23:16 <planetmaker> I actually do... Or not the newest incarnation of OpenGFX might be selected 10:23:44 <Ammler> ? 10:24:00 <planetmaker> version string = version = selection of which is the latest base set 10:24:16 <Ammler> IMO, it is stupid, if I mod a house and make does rebuild the whole baseset... 10:24:56 <planetmaker> it does that only, if you had previously an unmodified baseset 10:25:05 <planetmaker> if you mod it again, it doesn't do that 10:25:15 <Ammler> obviously, when don't you have that? 10:25:34 <planetmaker> I usually have a modified opengfx here :-P 10:26:28 <Ammler> so you mod soemthing, pull changes from repo, it doesn't force? 10:26:57 <Ammler> I am quite sure, you do also rebuild the whole set every time :-) 10:27:44 <planetmaker> I re-build every time the version changes, yes. 10:27:47 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: #openttdcoop - Document: Proposals for NFO version 8 <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/documents/15> || #openttdcoop - nfov8.txt <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/649/nfov8.txt> 10:27:59 <planetmaker> But it doesn't re-build as long as I work on a single changeset. 10:28:13 <planetmaker> then it only re-builds the parts which I modified 10:28:20 <planetmaker> And all is like it works by design 10:28:58 <planetmaker> a changed version should always trigger the grf to be built anew. 10:29:19 <planetmaker> or you would see for every newgrf project another version in your newgrf selection that what you expected 10:29:24 <planetmaker> very confusing and bad 10:30:00 <planetmaker> make must produce the version the repo shows and only report "nothing to do" when that is actually true 10:31:39 <Ammler> yep, but only where the version is showed 10:32:03 <planetmaker> which is basically every file ending with *.grf 10:32:22 <Ammler> hmm, stupid KDE exactly when I need zooming, it has disabled compositing 10:36:40 <Ammler> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/883#note-3 <-- any difference? 10:37:55 <Ammler> the alignment is worse 10:38:44 <Ammler> planetmaker: if the version string is in the name for example 10:38:56 <planetmaker> slightly worse alignment, yes 10:39:07 <planetmaker> Ammler: for example, yes. But also in action8 10:39:40 <Ammler> you mean for upcoming nfov8? 10:39:55 <planetmaker> uhm, no. For all our newgrfs :-) 10:41:53 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/StaticGRFInfo.txt <-- his treatise on that 10:42:18 <planetmaker> oh, and please either tell or amend what I missed in that list :-) 10:43:01 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Feature #883: Office building improvement <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/883#change-2397> 10:43:31 <Ammler> If I generate a new map, I have no single town with that house 10:43:45 <planetmaker> always? 10:43:52 <planetmaker> Maybe it's limited to another date 10:44:14 <Ammler> do we have a coop save with big arctic towns? 10:46:22 <Ammler> well, that is the disadvantage of template, you can't adjust the alignment 10:46:54 <planetmaker> yes, you have to do the alignment in the pcx. 10:50:10 <planetmaker> hm... most small arctic houses are a bit too noisy for my taste 10:51:06 *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:56:08 <Ammler> you should not mention features, which don't need bump 10:56:21 <Ammler> those could be added anytime, can't? 10:56:59 <Ammler> like railtypes 10:57:22 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:00:51 <Ammler> loading different version for debug should also somehow be possible 11:08:26 <planetmaker> you can re-load newgrfs. If you just replace the file, you can compare 11:09:00 <Ammler> not with base sets :-) 11:09:06 <Ammler> or is that possible too? 11:09:23 <planetmaker> I didn't yet extensively test. I *think*, though, not 11:09:27 <Ammler> omg, maglev trains in 0.2.3 are quite ugly 11:09:58 <Ammler> did you change something int that respect lately? 11:11:08 <Ammler> pax engine and wagons are quite much misaligned 11:11:58 <Ammler> http://img.openttdcoop.org/images/arctictown.png 11:12:43 <Ammler> http://img.openttdcoop.org/images/arcticuyu.png 11:12:59 <Ammler> any difference (the office house) 11:20:38 <andythenorth> planetmaker: lumber mill might be the reason... 11:20:52 <andythenorth> have a look in checks.pnfo 11:21:17 <planetmaker> I looked. I tried. It's not 11:21:28 <planetmaker> Only v1 of Lumber Mill is a reason. Not v2 11:21:47 <planetmaker> Ammler: yes, I'm responsible :-( 11:22:42 <andythenorth> planetmaker: yup you're correct :) 11:22:42 <Ammler> well, the issue is, that you and me aligning vehicles differently 11:22:49 <Ammler> and you only replaced waggons :-) 11:22:58 <planetmaker> but I wonder why it is so damn difficult to follow even detailed instructions I gave in order to report the error :-( 11:23:16 <planetmaker> Ammler: yes, the engines are not yet pikka-fied, I think 11:23:32 <Ammler> personally, I like my alignment more :-P 11:23:44 <planetmaker> on monorail it looked quite a bit off 11:23:48 <Ammler> your trains look like flying 11:25:21 <Ammler> planetmaker: which error? 11:25:31 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I wonder if my focus for FIRS 0.2 should be on sorting out error texts and manual and such? 11:25:46 <planetmaker> Ammler: the probs a noob has with FIRS. tt-forums 11:26:03 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it's not like the error texts are bad 11:26:03 <andythenorth> FooBar was very diligent about that stuff 11:26:07 <planetmaker> People just don't look. 11:26:40 <planetmaker> Though it might make sense to possibly give individual error messages. It's not too much effort 11:26:52 <andythenorth> displaying which set(s) are incompatible would be better 11:26:55 <andythenorth> a bit map would do it 11:27:08 <planetmaker> uhm... 11:27:18 <planetmaker> maybe 11:27:34 <planetmaker> But usually you de-activate on the first one you find incompatible 11:29:37 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #887 (New): Recolor US Set wagons to provide FIRS support <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/887> 11:30:17 <andythenorth> planetmaker: that would work too :) 11:32:07 <planetmaker> hm... can a grf parameter be a string? 11:34:36 <Ammler> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs <-- no forum link? 11:34:50 <Ammler> the homepage is the forum, ok 11:43:07 <planetmaker> hm, let's test the detailed error description thingy 11:45:13 <planetmaker> andythenorth: http://img.openttdcoop.org/images/unbenannt0.png <-- like that? 11:45:20 <planetmaker> If so, I'll finish it and commit 11:45:23 <planetmaker> It's no biggy 11:45:39 <planetmaker> (sorry in German, but you get the drift, I think) 11:45:43 <andythenorth> planetmaker: works for me 11:45:58 <andythenorth> This 'consult read me' bothers me though 11:46:06 <planetmaker> Why? 11:46:07 <andythenorth> (1) readme is not very up to date :) 11:46:11 <planetmaker> Well, can be changed ;-) 11:46:17 <planetmaker> or removed. But still. 11:46:26 <andythenorth> (2) we discussed before...I am a bananas user....where is the read me again? 11:46:33 <andythenorth> I think it's kind of broken 11:46:43 <planetmaker> in the release dir of firs on bundles.openttdcoop.org 11:46:49 <planetmaker> I could link there. Good idea 11:47:06 <Ammler> btw, that guy in forums is using a test grf lumber mill 11:47:08 <andythenorth> so how do us a bananas user get to there :P 11:47:16 <andythenorth> does /s 11:47:26 <Ammler> (suffix PS) 11:47:28 * andythenorth has some grumbles about bananas 11:47:28 <planetmaker> by writing the http:// link in the error message 11:47:44 <andythenorth> text is not selectable though :| 11:48:00 <planetmaker> but people can read. If not, they won't get helped whatever you do 11:48:47 <andythenorth> do the commit :) 11:48:55 <andythenorth> I/we can improve other things later 11:50:16 <planetmaker> I add the http link to the error message. I still need to re-write those for other errors than incompatible. But no big deal. I'm right on it :-) 11:50:38 <andythenorth> thanks :) 11:50:41 <andythenorth> 0.1.3? 11:51:02 <planetmaker> well... not sure that it is worth. 11:51:15 <planetmaker> it's a feature, not a bug fix 11:51:36 <planetmaker> but well. Your choice :-) 11:51:41 <andythenorth> I like releasing :) 11:51:58 <andythenorth> but I don't like the work to do a release :o 11:54:01 <planetmaker> :-P 11:54:15 <planetmaker> I noticed ;-) 11:55:46 <Ammler> :'-( 11:56:51 <Ammler> well, what is bad about people using nightlies? 11:57:33 <planetmaker> indeed. It's no big deal to (also) upload a nightly to bananas. 11:58:03 <Ammler> well, bananas is worth a release then 11:58:09 <Ammler> also no big deal anymore 11:58:51 <Ammler> or do you fear work for readme and changelog? 11:59:38 <andythenorth> FIRS has no changelog :) 11:59:50 <Ammler> :-o 12:00:02 <Ammler> release without changelog, how is that possible? 12:00:19 <Ammler> :-P 12:08:15 <planetmaker> hm... devzone down :S 12:12:01 <planetmaker> hm... recovered 12:18:13 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 767: Feature: Make error messages about incompatible New... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/767> 12:27:32 <planetmaker> The whole multi-newgrf compatibility needs now testing. 12:28:16 <planetmaker> anyway... all such messages should now be quite verbose 12:28:43 <planetmaker> viva la define: #define INCOMPATIBLE_GRF(x) -1 * 0 0B 03 7F FF "EE01: Incompatible set: "x"Consult FIRS ReadMe: E\0Dhttp://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/readme.txt" 00 12:30:41 * andythenorth thinks it would help to test with the nightly, not 0.1.2 m( 12:33:17 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 769: Cleanup: Remove now unused jump labels <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/769> || FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 768: Feature: Also make the load errors due to incompati... <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/768> 12:35:15 <andythenorth> planetmaker: my (not very rigourous) testing shows that it works so far 12:36:53 <planetmaker> not very vigerous testing was what I did here, too ;-) 13:57:47 <andythenorth> so what reasons should I use to decide major / minor / point version releases? 14:06:00 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #888 (New): Change aluminium mill to use combinatory cargos <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/888> 14:07:09 <Ammler> minor versions are mainly bugfix releases 14:14:44 <andythenorth> Ammler: for RVs, "go non-stop via" means the vehicle shouldn't stop in the station? 14:20:58 <Ammler> yes 14:21:13 <Ammler> via is like waypoint 14:22:47 <andythenorth> not in my game 14:22:56 <andythenorth> goes to the station, starts loading 14:23:04 <andythenorth> ho hum 14:23:14 <Ammler> hmm, please post a save 14:24:10 <andythenorth> where to? 14:24:40 <Ammler> where every you want :-) 14:24:45 <Ammler> you can use the devzone 14:24:55 <Ammler> -y 14:28:20 <andythenorth> Ammler: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/Ganway%20Transport%2C%204th%20Apr%201946.sav 14:28:29 <andythenorth> devzone was 'stuck' for file uploads :o 14:28:34 <andythenorth> you might need some grfs from me 14:30:48 <Ammler> worleysidings, but that might not be important 14:31:20 <andythenorth> it can be found on the forums anyway :) 14:31:35 <andythenorth> look at road vehicle 8 14:31:37 <Ammler> hmm, i have wrong heqs 14:32:00 <Ammler> 0.5c 14:32:29 <andythenorth> build the nightly, or I'll send you something.... 14:32:37 <Ammler> well 14:32:50 <Ammler> 0.6 wuold be on bananas, dosn't that fit? 14:32:58 <andythenorth> no, the trams are unreleased 14:32:58 <Ammler> that is silly 14:33:07 <Ammler> I can't download that either 14:33:18 <Ammler> did you change GRFID? 14:33:31 <andythenorth> not IIRC 14:33:34 <Ammler> then I use the nightly 14:34:46 <Ammler> nothing is running, but still quite slow 14:35:02 <Ammler> might be local... 14:38:25 <Ammler> andythenorth: are you able to browse bundles.openttdcoop.org? 14:38:45 <Ammler> everything takes ages here 14:39:09 <andythenorth> very slow 14:39:13 <Ammler> there is no server usage 14:39:18 <andythenorth> hmmm 14:39:23 <Ammler> no lots of memory usea 14:39:39 <andythenorth> just got fast again 14:39:47 <Ammler> that is just silly vps, I fear :-( 14:39:59 <andythenorth> we talked about paying for a dedicated box? 14:41:32 <Ammler> \o/ road trains :-) 14:41:42 <Ammler> yes, we did that too late 14:41:57 <Ammler> we bought the vps at that time already 14:42:04 <Ammler> but next box might be one 14:42:56 <Ammler> oh 14:43:00 <Ammler> got assert :-) 14:43:51 <Ammler> cloning repo and make heqs 14:44:51 <Ammler> why do you use such an old ISR? 14:45:19 <Ammler> or could you post your ISR somewhere? 14:45:49 <andythenorth> yup 14:45:57 <andythenorth> I'll pm 14:46:52 <Ammler> any reason, you don't use bananas version? 14:47:10 <andythenorth> inertia.... 14:47:12 <andythenorth> pm sent 14:47:31 <Ammler> this isr version isn't even in our obsolete archive :-) 14:49:43 <Ammler> martp does use a quite strange development envirnonment, so the IDs change on every release 14:49:46 <andythenorth> it was private release 14:49:54 <Ammler> I see beta3 :-) 14:50:12 <Ammler> unpause works \o/ 14:50:58 <Ammler> which veh shall I watch? 14:51:19 <Ammler> so cute :-) 14:52:07 <andythenorth> rv number 8 14:53:07 <Ammler> you are using 2 times the same station 14:54:10 <andythenorth> so I add another one... 14:54:11 <andythenorth> ok 14:54:30 <andythenorth> hmm 14:54:38 <andythenorth> I don't have a spare tile for that. 14:54:42 <andythenorth> maybe with some demolition... 14:57:27 <andythenorth> It's a nice eye candy game though :) 14:57:58 <Ammler> looks like you screwed your penalties 14:59:14 <andythenorth> meaning 'lots of things are losing money'? 14:59:51 <Ammler> no, meaning rvs don't avoid road stops not in the order list 15:00:13 <Ammler> or it is a new bug... 15:00:27 <Ammler> penalties should really get a gui 15:00:34 <andythenorth> I haven't changed any pf settings in config 15:02:09 <Ammler> :-( 15:02:12 <Ammler> it might be 15:02:36 <Ammler> yapf has only penatlty for occupied stops anymore 15:05:32 <Ammler> andythenorth: you should also use non-stop per default 15:05:49 <andythenorth> any reason? 15:05:56 <Ammler> I can't think of any use of no non-stop except maybe some s-bahn config 15:06:15 <Ammler> it wouldn't stop at stations, it doesn't need 15:06:52 <andythenorth> I use it for passenger services 15:07:20 <andythenorth> with maybe five stations on an A<->B<->C<->D<->E kind of line 15:08:19 <Ammler> http://imagebin.ca/view/VSQuWW.html <-- how I would make such a station :-) 15:08:20 <Webster> Title: plasma-desktopAw4843.jpg (at imagebin.ca) 15:08:40 <Ammler> andythenorth: yes, but you don't have such rows a lot 15:08:56 <Ammler> so you can still change the stop behaviour for such rarly configs 15:09:15 <andythenorth> ok that makes sense 15:09:44 <Ammler> I didn't say, I shouldn't use it, just I would change the default :-) 15:09:54 <Ammler> you shouldn't* 16:18:40 *** Seberoth has quit IRC 16:18:44 *** Seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:59:13 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 18:07:45 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:33:41 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 18:40:34 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:05:24 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:40:38 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FISH - Revision 300: Change: prepped Medium Coaster psd for loading and tanker sprites <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/300> 19:55:51 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: FISH - Revision 301: Change: prepped Small River Boat psd for loading and tanker sprites <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/301> 20:56:00 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 22:44:17 *** ODM has quit IRC 23:37:28 <Webster> Latest update from devactivity: OpenGFX - Feature #885: Groundtile brack land (Toyland?) <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/885#change-2399>