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00:36:59 *** Lakie` has quit IRC 00:47:42 <Brot6> Indonesian Town Names - Revision 38:95445a1baadf: Fix #1704: Need to declare min. compatible vers... (fanioz) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/indonesiantowns/repository/revisions/95445a1baadf 00:47:42 <Brot6> Indonesian Town Names - Bug #1704 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (fanioz) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1704#change-4486 01:04:23 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 01:15:34 *** thgergo has quit IRC 01:22:28 *** Levi has quit IRC 02:22:45 *** PeterT has quit IRC 02:22:45 *** Rubidium has quit IRC 02:22:46 *** orudge has quit IRC 02:22:46 *** Yexo has quit IRC 02:22:46 *** michi_cc has quit IRC 02:22:46 *** dihedral has quit IRC 02:22:46 *** Ammler has quit IRC 02:22:46 *** Brot6 has quit IRC 02:22:46 *** Guest1374 has quit IRC 02:22:46 *** OwenS has quit IRC 02:22:46 *** Terkhen has quit IRC 02:22:46 *** Hirundo has quit IRC 02:22:46 *** Guest1157 has quit IRC 02:22:46 *** seberoth has quit IRC 02:22:46 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 02:22:46 *** Twigman has quit IRC 02:23:52 *** PeterT has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:24:49 *** orudge has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:24:49 *** Rubidium has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:25:07 *** Yexo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:25:07 *** michi_cc has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:25:07 *** dihedral has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:25:07 *** Ammler has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:25:07 *** Brot6 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:25:07 *** OwenS has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:25:07 *** Guest1374 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:25:07 *** Hirundo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:25:07 *** Terkhen has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:25:07 *** Guest1157 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:25:07 *** seberoth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:25:07 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 02:25:07 *** Twigman has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 04:58:01 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 957:e1b217f0a156: Codechange: Make TRANSPARANT a normal constant. (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/e1b217f0a156 04:58:01 <Brot6> NFORenum - Feature #1746: improve warning text (George) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1746#change-4487 05:32:28 <Brot6> Bundles Update: g7e9b5cdd 2010-11-01 cargodist (http://finger.openttdcoop.org) 06:20:47 *** Webster has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:18:29 *** pm has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:18:57 *** pm is now known as Guest1449 07:20:03 *** Guest1449 is now known as planetmaker 07:20:31 <planetmaker> moin 07:21:14 <Rubidium> moi 07:28:57 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:40:52 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 07:42:29 <Ammler> mor 07:43:00 <Rubidium> in which language is that hello? 07:44:40 <Ammler> oh, that is truncated morgen 07:45:08 <Rubidium> tss... you think mine is a truncated moin? 07:46:27 <Ammler> hehe, I thought so :-P 07:47:01 <Rubidium> 'Finnish and Gronings Moi is mostly used as greeting like "hi" in English' 08:06:02 <dihedral> planetmaker, what are you doing up already - it's a bank holiday ^^ 08:06:56 <dihedral> or should i call you fred :-) 08:08:10 <Ammler> it's "Aller Heiligen" 08:08:23 <planetmaker> which is oficial holiday only South of Frankfurt or so 08:08:27 <planetmaker> :-( 08:08:50 <dihedral> oh really? lucky me then :-D 08:09:01 <dihedral> how are you with your new nickname? :-D 08:09:03 <Ammler> cantons which don't have free on Mai 1st, have free today 08:09:24 <Ammler> oh, is pm the "fred"? 08:09:31 <planetmaker> :-D 08:09:37 <planetmaker> some call me that way 08:09:40 <dihedral> read 'big-sig' :-P 08:09:53 <Ammler> lol 08:10:02 <planetmaker> I especially like the answer in the pensylvania town names thread to that ;-) 08:13:15 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=50781 <-- for your enjoyment, Ammler ;-) 08:13:17 <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums • View topic - Pennsylvania Town Names [stalled] (at www.tt-forums.net) 08:15:20 <Terkhen> :D 08:22:50 <dihedral> HEHEHE - i think he means "Fred has done this a time or two for me when I was having issues" 08:23:36 <dihedral> that's probably adding some chemistry the boy will not like :-D 08:24:43 <Ammler> and that is the ottdmaster in #openttd? 08:24:45 <planetmaker> that's the best sentence indeed ;-) - though technically I didn't upload things for kamnet really. But he's a nice guy and not demanding ;-) - and perfectly willing to work himself and take the aid given 08:24:56 <planetmaker> Ammler: no, that's another 08:25:35 <Ammler> ah no, who was the nick, someone here liked to ignore? 08:26:01 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:26:10 <planetmaker> the 'fred' author is on many people's ignore, including mine 08:26:32 <planetmaker> rather the one calling me fred ;-) 08:27:01 <Ammler> frenchtowns is btw. a very outdated nml project 08:27:36 <Ammler> currently there is no nml town name project on the devzone which works 08:27:50 <planetmaker> many nml projects don't work currently ;-) 08:28:09 <Ammler> :-) 08:29:06 <Ammler> hmm, not worth to answer on this thread? 08:29:47 <planetmaker> not at all 08:30:13 <planetmaker> talking to that guy nearly put me on ignore lists of people whom I value a lot 08:30:51 <Terkhen> is there any openttdcoop game with a lot of ships? 08:31:18 <planetmaker> it probably depends on the definition of 'lots'. There are a few with some 08:31:48 <Terkhen> enough ships to slow down the game noticeably 08:31:52 * planetmaker goes looking 08:32:09 <Terkhen> I'm just searching for "ship" at the archives with not much luck 08:32:17 <planetmaker> the problem is: we transiently sometimes have. But as the game nears completion they get removed. For exaclty that reason 08:32:49 <Ammler> planetmaker: you remember the game with a big eyecandy harbor in the middle of the map? 08:33:02 <planetmaker> yes, I do. That's what I'm looking for 08:33:07 <Ammler> ok :-) 08:33:31 <Ammler> around 110-120 I would guess 08:34:26 <Ammler> this guy is stupid, he doesn't care about license but doesn't like to use gpl? 08:35:30 <planetmaker> Terkhen: psg 169 08:36:01 <Terkhen> great, thank you :) 08:36:20 <Ammler> oh wow 08:36:25 <Ammler> so new? 08:36:32 <planetmaker> 54 ships 08:36:44 <planetmaker> but it's another game, Ammler 08:37:16 <Ammler> that thread is really funny, you are so mean 08:37:37 <Ammler> is that since you became part of the dev team? :-P 08:39:03 <planetmaker> :-P I hope not 08:39:10 <planetmaker> But I didn't even reply there ;-) 08:39:39 <planetmaker> And I spend hours literally explaining this guy. But I won't do the pampers for him 08:41:30 <planetmaker> Also there's a big difference how and for what purpose people ask for help. In this case I have the strong feeling that it's unwillingness on his part I shall cover. Not something I feel inclined 08:43:29 <planetmaker> Terkhen: psg #90 is worse: 114 ships 08:43:30 <Brot6> planetmaker: Terkhen: #90 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/90 "Infrastructure Sharing - Feature #90: Train station access - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 08:44:02 <planetmaker> and it's the game Ammler and I initially thought of :-) 08:45:01 <planetmaker> wow... that's really a quite untypical coop game: 655 trains, 244 RV, 69 aircraft, 114 ships 08:45:07 <Terkhen> thanks, I'll check that one too... since I'm already setting up everything for profiling the realistic acceleration patches I'm going to try if I can optimize ship acceleration a bit too 08:45:18 <planetmaker> :-) 08:45:39 <planetmaker> then psg 90 is the game for you ;-) 08:45:45 * Terkhen never had problems finding testing games with a lot of trains 08:46:01 <planetmaker> well, but it has all, RV, ships, trains :-) 08:46:30 <planetmaker> and it's a beautifuly eye candy game, too. As such a beauty to watch :-) 08:46:48 <Terkhen> yes, seems to be the best one to have around for testing every vehicle 08:46:52 <planetmaker> imho one of the nicest looking ones 08:47:35 <planetmaker> it could also serve as example for testing groups ;-) 08:47:45 <Ammler> else the member game 8 08:47:57 <Ammler> wd1 08:48:33 <planetmaker> hm... psg90 has signs like "made even messier /pm" :-P 08:48:55 <Ammler> you were young :-P 08:49:03 <planetmaker> :-) 08:49:13 <Ammler> maybe one of your first games? 08:49:25 <planetmaker> psg 73 was my first IIRC 08:50:36 <planetmaker> the problem where that sign is was to build a 4-way hub on a 10x10 tile island 08:50:40 <Rubidium> why am I always trying to work on this NewGRF specs "puzzle" when there are TTDPatch devs around? :( 08:50:59 <planetmaker> *no TTDPatch devs around"? 08:51:20 <Rubidium> hmm, yeah... the "no" is needed 08:51:53 <Rubidium> it's easy when I don't care about old versions of OpenTTD/TTDPatch 08:51:58 <planetmaker> a14 gender / case / plural? 08:52:18 <Rubidium> that's the easy part; it's just adding data that is ignored by the old versions 08:52:40 <Rubidium> getting stringcodes, and getting them properly ignored when they're not understood is the tricky thing 08:53:02 <planetmaker> well a14 seems to bother ttdp for anything slightly old. Maybe we should sweet talk Lakie to release a TTDP 2.5 08:53:20 <planetmaker> it'd put some people's mind to peace 08:53:56 <Rubidium> A14 isn't the problem 08:53:58 <planetmaker> how does OpenTTD complain about unknown string codes? 08:53:58 <Rubidium> A4 is 08:54:25 <Rubidium> with a small message (debug level 1) 08:54:29 <Rubidium> and then continues with the rest 08:55:35 <planetmaker> so... not a problem, just ignored? 08:56:36 <Rubidium> which is kinda troublesome as that means that all "data" of the {P a b c} and {G a b c} like number of strings, lengths of strings and the actual strings are tried to be drawn 08:56:49 <Rubidium> with funny effects all over the place 08:57:36 <planetmaker> oi 08:57:53 <Ammler> dihedral: btw. the recent console changes broke ap+ chat bridge, any idea how to fix? 08:58:09 <Rubidium> like wrongly decoding stuff, reading over the string terminator, or terminating the string upon the first {P or {G or setcase 08:58:33 <planetmaker> hmm... 08:58:55 <dihedral> Ammler: which recent console changes?? 08:58:58 <Rubidium> which means it'd be effectively not backwards compatible in any way 08:59:26 <Rubidium> i.e. it's more NewGRF v8 material, which is sad 08:59:30 <Ammler> dihedral: he, pm guessed something with color codes 08:59:49 <planetmaker> random guess ^ 08:59:50 <dihedral> colour codes are not printed on the dedicated sercer console 09:00:15 <Ammler> for me, the stable console and trunk console looks still the same 09:00:15 <dihedral> and define "breaks the chat bridge" please :-) 09:00:30 <Ammler> it doesn't forward ingame chat anymore 09:00:34 <dihedral> ah :-) 09:00:35 <planetmaker> Rubidium: well. But maybe it's indeed time to go for v8. We should talk it through with frosch's list of ideas 09:00:37 <dihedral> interesting 09:00:47 <dihedral> do you have timestamps enabled all of a sudden? 09:00:56 <Ammler> yes 09:01:06 <Ammler> but that isn't something new 09:01:27 <Ammler> hmm 09:03:06 <dihedral> but the other way round works? 09:03:15 *** thgergo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:42:47 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:54:34 *** planetm4ker has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:07:19 *** planetm4ker is now known as ingo 10:07:42 *** planetmaker is now known as Guest1468 10:07:42 *** ingo is now known as planetmaker 10:07:54 *** Guest1468 has quit IRC 10:32:17 *** Twigman has left #openttdcoop.devzone 10:46:49 *** thgergo has quit IRC 11:16:44 <Ammler> planetmaker: I meant xiong 11:17:02 <planetmaker> what, where? 11:20:46 <Terkhen> with openttdcoop newgrf package 8.0 + grfs from bananas I should be able to open any game from the archives, right? 11:21:04 <planetmaker> basically yes 11:21:11 <planetmaker> if not, please complain :-) 11:21:19 <Ammler> yes 11:21:28 <planetmaker> But you'll experience of course the use of compatible versions 11:23:08 <Terkhen> I'm missing three GRFs for #90, but one of them does not have a replacement (ottdc_grfpack/4_infrastructure/) 11:23:08 <Brot6> Terkhen: #90 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/90 "Infrastructure Sharing - Feature #90: Train station access - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 11:24:36 * Terkhen wonders if the name makes any sense, as it seems to be a folder 11:25:53 <planetmaker> hm, that seems to be a folder indeed 11:26:04 <Terkhen> oh, the name does not appear at "Find missing content online" for some reaseon 11:26:14 <Terkhen> but it does appear in the list: total_bridges.grf 11:26:24 <Terkhen> s/reaseon/reason/ 11:27:57 <planetmaker> you need tbrs 1.12 11:28:04 <Terkhen> it's the only one missing, after downloading it the game loads fine 11:28:30 <planetmaker> yes, the grf pack assumes you have all possible downloads from bananas. Kind of 11:28:44 <planetmaker> as we can't point to a compatible download on bananas 11:29:06 *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:29:16 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:29:19 <Ammler> we can't? 11:29:25 <Ammler> we don't need to 11:29:32 <Ammler> but bananas should 11:30:03 <planetmaker> Ammler: if there's a missing grf, the content download will only look for exact matches 11:30:36 <Ammler> oh, I see 11:30:53 <Terkhen> the center station is indeed incredible :) 12:35:08 *** Lakie has quit IRC 12:40:06 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:20:53 <dihedral> ODM, how much time do you have this week? 13:21:49 <ODM> i have some, but should also be studying:P 13:21:51 <ODM> exams next week 13:22:23 <ODM> actually i have 168 hours:D 13:22:31 <dihedral> :-P 13:22:49 <dihedral> i will try to get some stuff committed, either today or tomorrow 13:22:57 <ODM> nice 13:23:06 <dihedral> ap+ has reached an end and openttdcoop needs something workable 13:23:13 <dihedral> and i am only around for 1.5 weeks ^^ 13:23:21 <dihedral> going to brazil for 3 weeks :-P 13:23:21 <ODM> going away?:) 13:23:24 <ODM> wow nice 13:23:34 <ODM> guess after that its on my shoulders uh oh:D 13:23:42 <Ammler> hehe 13:24:07 <ODM> mm brazil sounds warmer 13:24:19 <Ammler> does the Admin Interface already support command logging? 13:24:21 <dihedral> if you feel like it, you can think of a possible way of handling Economy data in joan ^^ 13:24:37 <dihedral> Ammler, no, but the patch would be something like 30-40 lines 13:24:41 <dihedral> and take me max one hour 13:25:02 <dihedral> just want to have a look at the current implementation 13:25:23 <ODM> dihedral, what do you mean with economy handling? like new industries etc? 13:26:12 <dihedral> ADMIN_PACKET_SERVER_COMPANY_ECONOMY 13:26:28 <dihedral> have a look at the RECEIVE command in org.openttd.network.NetworkClient 13:26:29 <dihedral> :-) 13:26:38 <dihedral> around line 320 13:26:49 <dihedral> i'll be back in a bit ^^ 13:27:20 <ODM> cya 13:30:29 *** Guest1157 has quit IRC 13:33:13 <ODM> aah thats what you mean with economy:O 13:35:31 <ODM> is that company economy packet sent every X time? or on request? hope not on every change:P 13:36:13 <ODM> if it is sent at the end of every month (or 3 months) you could keep a history of how the game developed, with history_economy 13:38:03 <ODM> Some comments might really be useful^^ 13:38:45 <ODM> btw, i am not a dev on joan, so cant change when you are gone 13:39:54 <Rubidium> IIRC you can schedule that packet to be sent every X amount of time or query for it 13:40:53 <ODM> cheers 13:41:07 <ODM> so you can keep a history, and if someone wants current info, you can ask for an update 14:17:21 <dihedral> yes :-) 14:17:50 <dihedral> you can either poll for it, or have it sent at weekly monthly quarterly or anually frequencies 14:30:45 *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:58:56 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:03:24 <ODM> and that is a setting in openttd itself? 15:05:11 <planetmaker> that's a thing you can configure as that bot via command 15:05:33 <planetmaker> you define how often you want to get notifications. IIRC 15:07:02 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:07:26 <ODM> aight:) 15:08:19 * Rubidium smells a hint of Dvorak 15:08:57 <ODM> im guessing that is packet ADMIN_UPDATE_FREQUENCY 15:09:18 <ODM> aah indeed:) 15:09:49 <ODM> hmm i dont smell anything 15:11:04 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 15:11:54 <dihedral> ODM, you can request certain updates to be sent at certain intervals, that way each bot only gets what they asked for 15:12:04 <dihedral> "Eat that bitch, you asked for it" :-P 15:12:27 <dihedral> and a history would be kinda cool :-) 15:12:47 <dihedral> though i am not sure how a good way would be to handle the history 15:16:07 <planetmaker> dihedral, piping it to a file to be viewed via web interface :-P 15:16:26 <dihedral> ... 15:16:32 <dihedral> not for joan no 15:16:57 <dihedral> joan should simply provide the handling of the network and storing stuff in objects respectively 15:17:11 <planetmaker> surely not in the lib, yes. I thought you meant grapes 15:17:21 <dihedral> nah ^^ 15:17:36 <planetmaker> Joan Grapes. Sounds like a nice name, something to meet ;-) 15:17:48 <planetmaker> or someone? :-P 15:18:19 <ODM> an android! 15:18:59 <planetmaker> nah, that's in my desk's drawer 15:19:02 <planetmaker> :-P 15:23:02 <dihedral> mine is newer :-P 15:23:38 <planetmaker> hehe 15:23:43 <ODM> mine's not there:P 15:48:08 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:51:47 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 16:06:12 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:18:53 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 16:32:30 *** tneo_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:33:22 *** tneo_ is now known as tneo 17:09:54 <Brot6> nml: update from r970 to r973 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/r973 17:19:26 <Ammler> [15:19] <Ammler> I might do it with a http proxy 17:19:27 <Brot6> indonesiantowns: update from r37 to r38 done (1 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/indonesiantowns/nightlies/r38 17:19:28 <Ammler> ah 17:19:49 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r635), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r71), airportsplus (r64), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r7), comic-houses (r71), firs (r1483), fish (r415), frenchtowns (r4), grfcodec (r785), heqs (r479), manindu (r5), metrotrackset (r56), newgrf_makefile (r220), nml (r973), nutracks (r117), ogfx-trains (r86), ogfx-trees (r41), opengfx (r554), openmsx (r97), opensfx (r97), smts 17:19:49 <Brot6> (r19), snowlinemod (r45), swedishrails (r187), swisstowns (r20), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r23), worldairlinersset (r667) 17:19:53 <Ammler> nmlc: "input", line 3: Unknown item in GRF-block: min_compatible_version <-- how shall I fix it now? 17:20:22 <Brot6> airportsplus: compile of r64 still failed (#1741) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/airportsplus/nightlies/ERROR/r64 17:21:41 <Yexo> Ammler: where do you get that error? 17:21:43 <Yexo> which project? 17:21:48 <Brot6> manindu: compile of r5 still failed (#1742) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/manindu/nightlies/ERROR/r5 17:21:52 <Ammler> ah 17:21:58 <Ammler> I might need to update the nml first 17:22:05 <planetmaker> :-P 17:22:23 <planetmaker> nml changed A LOT recently 17:23:45 <Brot6> swisstowns: update from r20 to r21 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/swisstowns/nightlies/r21 17:23:53 <Ammler> hehe 17:23:54 <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: belarusiantowns (3 errors) (Diffsize: 21), frenchtowns (4 errors) (Diffsize: 9), ogfx-trains (1 errors) (Diffsize: 12), swedishrails (Diffsize: 6) 17:24:21 <frosch123> planetmaker: just do it like me. if compilation of your grf fails, request reverting :p 17:24:43 <planetmaker> :-P 17:24:43 <Brot6> Swiss Town Names - Revision 21:543e84eb19f0: Fix #1705, fix the nml bug here ;-) (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swisstowns/repository/revisions/543e84eb19f0 17:24:43 <Brot6> Swiss Town Names - Bug #1705 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1705#change-4489 17:25:27 <planetmaker> if that only were helpful ;-) 17:25:30 <Ammler> at least one town names grf working again 17:25:42 <planetmaker> :-) 17:26:57 <Ammler> IMO, that could easy use 0 as default, no need to require it 17:27:22 <planetmaker> require what? min_compatible_version? 17:27:26 <Ammler> yes 17:27:33 <planetmaker> It defaults to the current version 17:27:40 <Ammler> I have no newgrf, which would require something else 17:27:44 <planetmaker> requiring it is NML. But thus it makes sense 17:27:51 <planetmaker> It forces people to think about it 17:28:06 <Ammler> which is the wrong way, but that is discussed already 17:28:18 <Ammler> should be on grf level 17:28:25 <planetmaker> it is. 17:28:47 <Ammler> maybe you just assume, nml coders are more lazy then nfo coders, dunno, if that is true :-) 17:29:22 <planetmaker> where's the problem to require a minimum version? 17:29:31 <Ammler> also silly is that the same people which code a14 and nml do it different :-) 17:29:46 <planetmaker> No, it adds up perfectly: 17:29:56 <planetmaker> by default nothing is compatible - unless you tell. 17:30:06 <Ammler> planetmaker: the problem is that grf/openttd doesn't require it, so it is a bit confusing 17:30:06 <planetmaker> And then we use NML to make authors aware of it - and think about it 17:30:34 <planetmaker> Why shall we require it? It's not needed. 17:30:48 <planetmaker> But it helps to sort out compatibility issues 17:31:00 <Ammler> yeah, it is fine, it should just not fail the whole building 17:31:15 <planetmaker> it should - so that you think about it 17:31:44 <planetmaker> the only alternative is to make it optional in NML, too. But why? 17:31:49 <Ammler> setting it to 0 is not really thought about :-P 17:32:32 <planetmaker> but otherwise you leave it out - and then file a bug report that your next version newgrf is not considered compatible to the previous version 17:32:41 <planetmaker> which it would 17:32:49 <Ammler> which would be a bug 17:32:54 <Ammler> default should be 0 17:32:55 <planetmaker> in your newgrf 17:33:14 <planetmaker> the default is no compatibility 17:33:26 <Ammler> default should be like no a14 17:33:26 <planetmaker> that's the save assumption 17:33:31 <planetmaker> yes. 17:33:32 <planetmaker> it is 17:33:52 <Ammler> hmm, but then every grf with same id is compatible, isn't? 17:33:56 <planetmaker> ok, I stop it here. And now 17:33:59 <planetmaker> it's pointless 17:34:03 <Ammler> ok 17:34:17 <planetmaker> action14 should be used from now on. Not requiring it is just legacy 17:34:41 <planetmaker> v8 for grfs should require it 17:34:53 <Ammler> well, but it should require those vars also for non nml, that is what I have troubles with 17:35:22 <Ammler> I think the check is done on the wrong side 17:36:18 <planetmaker> requiring action14 removes EVERY newgrf older than 2 months from the list of acceptable newgrf. Do you want that? 17:36:24 <Ammler> nono 17:36:28 <planetmaker> you said so 17:36:35 <Ammler> if a14 is in, the vars should be required 17:36:39 <Ammler> not that a14 is required 17:39:43 <Ammler> if it wouldn't be the same people, I would report it as bug :-) 17:39:57 <Ammler> as nml devs don't respect the grf spec 17:40:05 <planetmaker> they do 17:40:36 <planetmaker> they just enforce good grfs which make it easier for noob players 17:40:52 <Ammler> and why can't that be done on grf level? 17:40:59 <Rubidium> oh, so GCC devs don't respect the assembly specs? 17:41:03 <planetmaker> the C compiler also doesn't compile every possible thing I can write in assembler. Think about it 17:41:14 * planetmaker hugs Rubidium :-) 17:42:06 <Ammler> Rubidium: I have no idea about that 17:42:07 <planetmaker> Ammler, OpenTTD has to read _all_ grfs, also those which write correct according to the specs, but bad with respect to nice usability for players 17:42:12 <planetmaker> we want to enforce the latter, too 17:42:47 <planetmaker> not enforce. Want to avoid 17:43:11 <Ammler> you still didn't tell me why not 17:43:24 <Ammler> why does openttd need to support "bad" a14? 17:43:42 <planetmaker> a14 is always optional 17:43:51 <planetmaker> it's means to provide meta information. 17:44:12 <Ammler> oh well, but if you use a14, you could do it right 17:44:15 <Ammler> like nml forces 17:44:32 <Ammler> why does it allow "bad" a14? 17:44:34 <planetmaker> then it wouldn't be as flexible as current a14 17:44:54 <Ammler> it is just silly :-) 17:44:56 <planetmaker> then it would have just been an action8b 17:44:58 <planetmaker> or so 17:45:10 <Ammler> you don't get me 17:45:18 <planetmaker> this action14 is much more future - proof 17:45:29 *** ODM has quit IRC 17:45:31 <planetmaker> like min_compatible_version was only added much later 17:45:57 <planetmaker> and we can think of other things to add the same way. Maybe grf-author-supplied meta info on the category. Or stuff like that 17:47:25 <Ammler> the main problem is that because nml builds fail because of such "unneeded" errors, you might hide real faults 17:48:29 <Rubidium> Ammler: so you want NML to support the old way of ignoring it for a long time and then just before 0.1.0 ditch *everything* they don't really want to support? 17:48:42 <Ammler> no, it could warn 17:49:13 <Ammler> there isn't need to fail completely because of something which is allowed from openttd 17:49:17 <planetmaker> why? There's no legacy needed in NML 17:49:55 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:49:55 <planetmaker> Ammler, it's allowed. But we don't want it. We just have to allow it as we cannot shut down all existing newgrf 17:50:29 <Ammler> and you think as warning, it would be ignored? 17:50:41 <planetmaker> why not enforce what we want? 17:50:45 <planetmaker> for _new_ stuff? 17:50:55 <Ammler> because you might hide real errors 17:51:16 <planetmaker> which error? 17:51:36 <Hirundo> Isn't it the responsibility of the user to keep his projects up to date? 17:51:44 <planetmaker> we should fail on less errors so that other errors are more prominent? 17:52:21 <planetmaker> Ammler, from NML 0.1.0 onward - then I'd agree with you. But we're not there yet 17:52:33 <planetmaker> NML has no backward compatibility 17:52:35 <Ammler> it wouldn't be the first time, NML regression succeeded, but a nml project failed because of a fault in nml 17:52:54 <planetmaker> All code in NML is subject to be broken without notice 17:53:06 <planetmaker> till 0.1.0 17:53:18 <Ammler> pm, I think, it could be forced from 0.1.0 on 17:53:23 <Ammler> but it should while dev 17:53:26 <Ammler> n't 17:54:01 <Ammler> I don't care, if my project doesn't build anymore 17:54:12 <planetmaker> honestsly, it's a very small change to make 17:54:18 <Ammler> but I thought, it could be helpful as a kind of extended regression test 17:54:47 <planetmaker> why don't you care? If you update your project you keep helping NML by continuing to provide regression tests 17:55:02 <planetmaker> especially this case is not that difficult, is it? 17:55:37 <frosch123> Ammler: please do not make nml to have to provide a compatibility mess like grfcodec 17:55:57 <frosch123> just like a look at grf version 1 to 6 17:56:11 <frosch123> they are only mess, it would have been better to trash support 1 to 5 17:56:19 <Ammler> you all take my comment from the wrong side 17:57:04 <planetmaker> I think I _meanwhile_ got what you say: keep the regression tests of the other existing newgrfs by making it an option (for now) 17:57:32 <planetmaker> but I'm not sure it's really that much of a good choice: doing that over and over would complicate code needlessly 17:57:58 <planetmaker> e.g. it'd require to do *something* about the min_compatible_version when it's not there. 17:58:09 <planetmaker> instead of just writing the whole block as-is 18:43:35 *** Levi has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:09:55 <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r21068 to r21072 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-ez-patches/testing/r21072 19:10:34 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:10:41 *** Levi has quit IRC 19:13:22 <andythenorth_> evening 19:13:34 <planetmaker> :-D 19:16:00 <andythenorth_> Terkhen: any changes on your rv speed patch since yesterday? 19:16:09 <andythenorth_> I'll compile now if not... 19:18:27 <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r21068 to r21072 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/clientpatches/testing/r21072 19:19:30 <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r21072 still failed (#1658) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/serverpatches/testing/ERROR/r21072 19:22:02 <andythenorth_> hmm 19:22:23 <andythenorth_> my RV has a nominal top speed of 318mph, but will only reach 68mph in game 19:22:32 <andythenorth_> needs....more power :D 19:37:44 <andythenorth_> planetmaker: I want to reply to certain things on the FIRS thread 19:37:49 <andythenorth_> waste of time? 19:37:55 <andythenorth_> :P 19:41:24 <planetmaker> Depends on what :-) 19:41:43 <planetmaker> But _you_ shouldn't bother about how things are translated ;-) 19:42:00 <planetmaker> Eddi's latest suggestions concerning farms is what makes most sense 19:42:13 <planetmaker> or something else? 19:42:34 <andythenorth_> "ill conceived" 19:42:40 <andythenorth_> I think it deserves a rebuttal :) 19:42:59 <andythenorth_> I didn't do an instant reply - didn't want to be grumpy and flamey 19:43:09 <andythenorth_> but I've thought about it and I don't think it should pass :P 19:43:13 <planetmaker> Whatever suits you. I meanwhile chose to spare my energy and put it to more productive uses 19:43:19 <andythenorth_> :D 19:43:51 <planetmaker> But indeed it's an insult. The question is whether it's worth to reply to insults or sleights like those 19:44:15 <andythenorth_> I shall find out empirically :P 19:44:30 <andythenorth_> I have nothing I can work on seriously anyway 19:44:49 <andythenorth_> I am waiting on Terkhen's patch for HEQS 0.9.0 19:44:58 <andythenorth_> and I don't have time to do anything bigger today :) 19:45:03 * planetmaker found out by empirical results, that rather not ;-) 19:45:11 <andythenorth_> we could try and figure out consists more 19:45:20 <andythenorth_> no alberth though :( 19:45:58 <planetmaker> andythenorth_, you might test mich_cc's patch - though not sure whether Terkhen 's is nower or to what extend bysed on it. 19:46:11 <andythenorth_> I tested it as much as I could 19:46:28 <andythenorth_> it penalises HEQS vehicles somewhat :P 19:47:17 <planetmaker> that's ok - you can adopt 19:47:30 <planetmaker> it would then be the same on ttpd and ottd. or very similar 19:47:38 <andythenorth_> brr 19:47:52 <andythenorth_> so I have to choose whether to be compatible before or after a certain commit :P 19:48:19 <planetmaker> the future is 1.1 19:48:31 <planetmaker> and you'd just make them accelerate faster on 1.0.x 19:48:38 <planetmaker> that's not the worst 19:48:45 <planetmaker> Worse would be for you the other way around 19:54:44 <andythenorth_> yes 19:54:53 <andythenorth_> well if it makes trunk, I'll update HEQS 19:55:12 <andythenorth_> michi_cc: ^^ 19:56:32 <michi_cc> andythenorth_: It's not clear it'll hit trunk, but thanks anyway :) 19:56:45 <andythenorth_> if it does, let me know 19:56:50 <andythenorth_> I don't see every trunk commit 19:57:07 <andythenorth_> a HEQS bug tracker ticket would be good 19:57:34 <michi_cc> Compared to eGRVTS and GermanRV HEQS does seam a bit too weak (those two could even do with an even "harder" acceleration) 19:57:50 <andythenorth_> yes 19:58:32 <andythenorth_> but I am quite happy to have some troubles on steep grades 19:58:50 <andythenorth_> otherwise road vehicles gain quite an advantage versus trains 20:06:07 <planetmaker> michi_cc, at least you got the approval by the German faction ;-) 20:08:14 <frosch123> is that good or bad? 20:10:31 <planetmaker> depends :-) 20:11:13 <planetmaker> as michi_cc's argument is along the lines, "if realistic, then properly, I don't care what TTDP does, test this" - it's ok :-) 20:11:43 * andythenorth_ wonders what reply will come to FIRS thread :P 20:13:22 <Terkhen> uwe posted saying that michi_cc's patch fits with TTDPatch too 20:14:52 <planetmaker> andythenorth_, "...until FIRS 1.0 is released..."? 20:14:58 <planetmaker> instead of HEQS? 20:15:32 <andythenorth_> :) 20:15:35 <andythenorth_> fixed 20:15:50 <planetmaker> :-) 20:15:55 <planetmaker> decent reply 20:16:21 <andythenorth_> he has to acknowledge it decently, reply, or he's trolling :P 20:16:31 <andythenorth_> or he can ignore it :) 20:30:36 *** OwenS has quit IRC 20:47:41 *** Webster has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 21:12:42 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 21:22:05 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 21:51:09 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:06:20 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 22:28:42 *** ODM has quit IRC 23:00:48 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 955:6f12b0c7592b: Codechange: Generalize the register / resolve s... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/6f12b0c7592b 23:04:08 * planetmaker ponders what that change might imply for my newgrfs :-) 23:05:48 * Hirundo ponders what the changes in his patch queue mean for pm's newgrfs 23:07:17 <planetmaker> :-) 23:10:59 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 974:8a2521f7cc8c: Fix: frames != frame (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/8a2521f7cc8c 23:13:20 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Airports - Revision 65:833ecf9519d5: Change: Use the new syntax for animation information (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/airportsplus/repository/revisions/833ecf9519d5 23:19:26 <Hirundo> planetmaker: What about ANIMATION_LOOPING ? 23:20:47 <planetmaker> probably better 23:22:10 <planetmaker> though strictly speaking not needed 23:22:20 <planetmaker> but you know that ;-) 23:26:05 <planetmaker> regression test has it 23:26:09 <planetmaker> :-) 23:26:24 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 975:b87e774bbdd9: Add: Regression for basic airport tiles, includ... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/b87e774bbdd9 23:26:35 <Hirundo> Ah nice :) 23:27:17 <Hirundo> Strictly speaking, you can use CC_EXPRESS + CC_REFRIGERATED as max speed for a train 23:27:30 <planetmaker> loool :-) 23:27:42 <planetmaker> even as bitmask 23:28:21 <planetmaker> bitmask(CC_express+cc_refrigerated,cc_bulk) * ANIMATION_LOOPING 23:28:26 <planetmaker> :-P 23:28:52 <Hirundo> that reminds me of something *searches* 23:29:09 <planetmaker> one could then argue slightly that the readibility might not be enhanced by such use ;-) 23:30:22 <Hirundo> http://www.motivationalposter.us/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/unique.jpg 23:32:58 <planetmaker> :-D 23:33:04 <planetmaker> indeed 23:34:55 <Hirundo> goodnight 23:35:19 <planetmaker> good night Hirundo