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00:00:16 <Ammler> time to go 00:12:37 <planetmaker> good night 00:37:12 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 01:36:17 *** thgergo has quit IRC 05:33:24 <Brot6> Bundles Update: g372143bc 2010-12-11 cargodist (http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/cargodist) 06:59:50 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 569:b993bf495f61: Codechange: Add a few more blank lines in order to make the ... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/b993bf495f61 08:37:20 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:42:42 <dih> re-licensing a project with multiple devs is complicated anyway 08:44:04 <dih> for my part i am looking for some possibility to not be limited 5 years time 08:46:23 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:55:39 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:59:03 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2010: New Taurus graphics (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2010#change-5003 09:01:39 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:42:21 <andythenorth> mornings 09:42:39 <Terkhen> good morning andythenorth 09:43:17 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:43:21 <andythenorth> quak 09:43:35 <frosch123> morning :) 09:43:58 <planetmaker> moin folks :-) 09:44:40 <planetmaker> andythenorth: http://www.openttd.org/en/download-trunk <-- I support your lazyness ;-) 09:45:17 <andythenorth> yay 09:45:26 <andythenorth> what, I should now lurk in coop games? 09:45:51 <planetmaker> you're welcome, but you need do nothing :-) 09:46:15 <andythenorth> oh I misread :o 09:46:23 <andythenorth> I thought that was 1.0.5 09:46:27 <andythenorth> :) 09:46:38 <planetmaker> nah, not 1.0.5 09:46:51 <frosch123> euh, what did i miss :o 09:46:54 <andythenorth> well, it's nice anyway 09:47:08 <planetmaker> I don't think you missed anything, frosch123 ;-) 09:47:10 <frosch123> planetmaker: what's your plan for the wiki? 09:47:35 <planetmaker> You mean my edits today on the openttd wiki? 09:47:47 <frosch123> yes 09:47:57 <planetmaker> well... the history and the diffs of the tikiwiki are... sub-optimal 09:48:06 <planetmaker> And it's another account also. 09:48:29 <planetmaker> So I thought I try how easy or not it'd be to get the newgrf wiki into the openttd wiki 09:48:42 <frosch123> so, it's a test? 09:48:49 <planetmaker> In a way, yes 09:49:01 <frosch123> ok, because duplicate specification is the worst of all :) 09:49:02 <planetmaker> What would your stand on such a move be in principle 09:49:10 <planetmaker> No, it's nothing official 09:49:11 <planetmaker> yet 09:49:22 <planetmaker> It definitely needs discussion. 09:49:41 <planetmaker> But not worth to discuss things when the other options are a pain, too 09:50:11 <frosch123> anyway, i would prefer a separate wiki instead of the ottd manual 09:50:11 <planetmaker> It's not up to me to make such decision anyway. 09:52:05 <planetmaker> The argument for keeping it separate certainly is that chances that noobs edit it, are much much smaller 09:52:34 <planetmaker> The argument for adding it to the development section of the existing wiki is that no-one edits it there anyway, too ;-) 09:52:57 <planetmaker> but information would be easier found for new people 09:53:20 <planetmaker> things would be a bit better integrated 09:54:04 <frosch123> different topic, what do youi think, should one of us volunteer for the 120 page printed ottd manual? :o 09:54:04 <planetmaker> probably what I would prefer is a section of the openttd wiki which is only editable by somehow registered newgrf authors 09:54:12 <frosch123> *for test-reading 09:54:30 <planetmaker> I guess I did that already as I mailed with that person from the beginning 09:54:38 <frosch123> ok :) 09:54:41 <planetmaker> months before that posting at tt-ms 09:54:50 <planetmaker> :-) 09:55:19 <planetmaker> I think he mailed initially alberth - because of his so-German-sounding name ;-) 09:55:32 <frosch123> yup, i know that :) 09:56:24 <frosch123> euh, though the table of contents puts "newgrf configuration" into the stuff of ingame- settings :s 09:56:24 <Rubidium> *if* you're going to make a new NewGRF specs wiki I think it's better to split it off OpenTTD's wiki as well, i.e. a new wiki 09:57:37 <Rubidium> we could even consider redirecting giving it newgrf.openttd.org / newgrf.openttdcoop.org / newgrf.ttdpatch.net as DNS names 09:57:53 <planetmaker> hm, ok 09:57:56 <Rubidium> then nobody would (really) be the wiser 09:58:06 <Rubidium> after all, it happens with the ttdpatch nightlies as well 09:59:22 <andythenorth> what's the need for moving control of newgrf wiki? 09:59:28 <andythenorth> reduced point of failure? 09:59:30 <andythenorth> or politics? 09:59:39 <planetmaker> I'm not yet really that into media wiki setup. From the pm wiki I know the concept of wiki farms 10:00:19 <planetmaker> (that pm has nothing to do with my name ;-) http://www.pmwiki.org/ ) 10:00:21 <Webster> Title: PmWiki | PmWiki / PmWiki (at www.pmwiki.org) 10:01:02 <planetmaker> andythenorth: the history and alike of the tikiwiki are quite bad. 10:01:10 <frosch123> andythenorth: just that tikiwki is a pain and lacks a lot of featueres of tikiwki 10:01:12 <planetmaker> try to look what one person changed 10:01:20 <andythenorth> ok 10:01:22 <planetmaker> just as one example ;-) 10:01:51 <frosch123> andythenorth: e.g. try to add a ottd 0.5, 0.6, 0.7, 1.0, 1.1, ttdp 2.0, 2.5, 2.6 logo after every property/varaible/callback/whatever :p 10:02:16 <planetmaker> or adding a new feature at the main page 10:04:01 <planetmaker> hm, I guess I could try to setup a test wiki in a VM on the devzone 10:34:16 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:45:45 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #2011 (New): Change forge -> Ironworks + Blacksmith (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2011 11:52:19 *** Webster has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:52:50 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2010: New Taurus graphics (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2010#change-5005 12:02:26 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2010: New Taurus graphics (Ammler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2010#change-5006 12:22:26 *** thgergo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:23:08 *** thgergo has quit IRC 12:30:51 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:31:01 *** ODM has quit IRC 14:46:50 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:15:31 *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:22:40 *** Lakie has quit IRC 15:26:23 *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:43:13 *** Lakie has quit IRC 17:08:40 <Brot6> grfcodec: update from r811 to r815 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/grfcodec/nightlies/r815 17:09:57 <Brot6> nml: update from r1089 to r1091 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/r1091 17:13:40 <Ammler> planetmaker: why not using the devzone wiki instead? 17:13:48 <Ammler> e.g. project grftools 17:16:23 <Ammler> also some parts should be merged with nml spec 17:18:08 <Brot6> firs: update from r1582 to r1584 done (1 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/r1584 17:19:12 <Brot6> opengfx: update from r568 to r569 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/nightlies/r569 17:19:18 <Brot6> Following repos didn't need a nightlies update: 2cctrainset (r686), 32bpp-extra (r39), ai-admiralai (r75), airportsplus (r70), basecosts (r22), belarusiantowns (r8), bros (r40), comic-houses (r71), fish (r423), frenchtowns (r6), grfcodec (r815), heqs (r553), indonesiantowns (r39), manindu (r6), metrotrackset (r56), newgrf_makefile (r238), nml (r1091), nutracks (r120), ogfx-rv (r78), ogfx-trains (r199), ogfx-trees (r41), openmsx (r97), 17:19:18 <Brot6> opensfx (r97), smts (r19), snowlinemod (r45), swedishrails (r193), swisstowns (r22), transrapidtrackset (r15), ttdviewer (r26), ttrs (r23), worldairlinersset (r669) 17:20:48 <Ammler> andythenorth: the error in firs looks fixeable, doesn't? 17:21:32 <Brot6> comic-houses: rebuild of r71 done (2 errors) (Diffsize: 14) (DiffDiffsize: 7) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/comic-houses/nightlies/r71/log 17:22:05 <andythenorth> Ammler: it's just a boring 'unused set' error 17:22:41 <andythenorth> yes I could fix it 17:23:16 <Ammler> maybe I should also create bug ticket of such errors 17:23:46 <Ammler> what are those Escapes list for in the nfo header? 17:24:38 <Ammler> are they needed by grfcodec? 17:25:06 <Brot6> smts: rebuild of r19 done (Diffsize: 8) (DiffDiffsize: 12) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/smts/nightlies/r19/log 17:25:48 <Brot6> 2cc train set - Feature #2010: New Taurus graphics (Voyager1) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2010#change-5007 17:26:06 <Brot6> transrapidtrackset: rebuild of r15 done (Diffsize: 12) (DiffDiffsize: 7) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/transrapidtrackset/nightlies/r15/log 17:26:33 <Ammler> hmm, smts has also a silly diff 17:26:39 <Brot6> ttrs: rebuild of r23 done (7 errors) (Diffsize: 1324) (DiffDiffsize: 1328) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ttrs/nightlies/r23/log 17:27:22 <Ammler> frosch123: any idea, why grf2html has new png output? 17:27:24 <Brot6> Following repos rebuilds successful without any difference to earlier nightlies builds: 2cctrainset (8 errors), 32bpp-extra (Diffsize: 1), airportsplus (Diffsize: 6), basecosts, belarusiantowns, bros, fish (4 errors), frenchtowns, heqs, indonesiantowns (1 errors), manindu, metrotrackset (Diffsize: 1), nutracks (2 errors), ogfx-rv (1 errors), ogfx-trains, ogfx-trees, snowlinemod, swedishrails, swisstowns, worldairlinersset 17:31:30 <frosch123> Ammler: maybe palette? 17:31:35 <planetmaker> [18:13] <Ammler> planetmaker: why not using the devzone wiki instead? <-- it is also an ugly wiki 17:31:56 <planetmaker> And the NewGRF specs are probably best kept as a separate entity 17:32:26 <Ammler> ugly in which way? :-o 17:33:54 <planetmaker> I don't like its syntax 17:34:34 <planetmaker> and it's in comparison also quite limited. Moving from TikiWiki to the Redmine wiki IMHO doesn't warrant the effort 17:35:05 <frosch123> can it join cells in tables? 17:35:59 <planetmaker> Dunno... I didn't find tables directly straight forward there ;-) 17:36:31 <planetmaker> And importing an existing wiki into a new wiki is quite a bit easier than importing it into the redmine wiki ;-) 17:37:10 <Ammler> oh, so you like to use tikiwiki or how that is called? 17:37:28 <planetmaker> No, that I like even less 17:37:45 * Rubidium wonders whether that's tikwiki's fault, or tikiwiki's version's fault 17:37:59 <planetmaker> It's uglyness is the main reason. E.g. you cannot see any diff there between versions 17:38:16 <Ammler> hmm, you can 17:38:29 <Rubidium> 1.9.2, they're at 6 something now 17:39:32 <Ammler> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=Action0Industries&diff_style=mininlinediff&compare=compare&newver=0&oldver=41 17:40:04 <Ammler> with the history view 17:40:19 <planetmaker> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-pagehistory.php 17:40:27 <Rubidium> Ammler: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=Action0Railtypes who did version 30? 17:40:31 <planetmaker> hm... 17:40:43 <Rubidium> or version 28? 17:41:15 <Ammler> you? 17:41:24 <Rubidium> no, I didn't 17:41:36 <Rubidium> just take a look at the dates of the versions 17:41:44 <Rubidium> 31-26 17:41:46 <Ammler> Rubidium - Fri 30 of Jul, 2010 [13:25] 17:42:14 <Rubidium> 31: 09-12 17:42:17 <Rubidium> 30: 30-07 17:42:21 <Rubidium> 29: 09-12 17:42:24 <Rubidium> 28: 30-07 17:42:30 <Rubidium> 27: 08-12 17:42:34 <Rubidium> 26: 30-07 17:42:36 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 1585:559711e0b950: Fix: removed unused ground sprite in ... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/559711e0b950 17:42:38 <Rubidium> all in 2010 17:42:45 <andythenorth> Ammler: ^^ 17:42:48 <Rubidium> kinda odd ordering of versions, ain't it? 17:43:02 <Rubidium> and the same date + user + comment for three changes? 17:43:14 <Ammler> indeed :-) 17:43:21 <frosch123> Rubidium: those were reverts by an admin 17:43:29 <planetmaker> we know that 17:43:33 <Ammler> frosch123: and why as "Rubi"? 17:43:46 <Rubidium> Ammler: also, what's the diff between version 20 and 19? 17:43:53 <frosch123> anyway, i looked up the join-multiple-cells issue a year ago or so, and back then even a up-to-date tiki was not able to di it 17:44:19 <frosch123> Ammler: because it was reverted to that last version of rb 17:44:53 <frosch123> Ammler: btw. seems like the bounding-box previews have different palettes 17:44:54 <Ammler> ah, that makes sense 17:45:10 <frosch123> they only use 3 palette entries, and it looks like the other ones are filled randomly 17:45:32 <Ammler> well, not sense in kind it is good, just why Rubi is abused :-) 17:45:49 <frosch123> not sure whether i can force the freepascal library to zero the palette 17:51:19 <Ammler> frosch123: so the problem is caused by a libpng update in the mingw repo? 17:51:33 <frosch123> no, looks like it is my fault 17:52:17 <frosch123> the preview sprites have 256 palette colours, but the previews need only 3 colours. the other entries are left uninitalised 17:52:37 <frosch123> so the output is only semantically the same, but not binary :) 17:54:06 <Ammler> andythenorth: you don't do that for me :-P 17:56:13 *** thgergo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 17:56:37 <andythenorth> Ammler: I do it for the good of all :) 17:56:43 <andythenorth> but it saves you opening a ticket 17:56:44 <Ammler> yes :-) 17:57:09 <Ammler> well, I was thinking about the compile script doing it... 17:57:25 <Ammler> like if the build fails 17:57:26 <planetmaker> Ammler: about warnings? 17:57:37 <Ammler> just with normal prio 17:58:03 <planetmaker> critical failures are good. Just a warning... Dunno 17:58:42 <Ammler> hmm, if you don't want the error you can silence it in the nfo 17:58:53 <planetmaker> Not always 17:59:20 <Ammler> but ignoring a error is bad, imo 17:59:22 <planetmaker> Like I can't compile OpenTTD without 6 warnings 17:59:44 <planetmaker> they're pointless compiler insufficiencies, but that's it 17:59:47 <Ammler> try make 2>/dev/null 18:00:51 <andythenorth> not all newgrf errors are useful 18:00:53 <Ammler> yeah, openttd produces a lot compile warnings 18:01:22 <Rubidium> show me one that isn't a broken compiler 18:01:30 <andythenorth> to 'fix' the error in FIRS just now I deleted harmless unfinished code which I'll have to re-write at some point 18:01:42 <andythenorth> or I could add suppression, but that's more cruft... 18:02:20 <frosch123> or comment it out :p 18:03:02 <Terkhen> #if 0 18:03:06 <Ammler> https://build.opensuse.org/package/live_build_log?arch=i586&package=openttd&project=home%3Aopenttdcoop&repository=openSUSE_11.3 18:03:11 <Ammler> all broken gcc? 18:03:33 <Rubidium> yes 18:03:52 <Rubidium> all the same error 18:04:04 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 18:04:16 <Ammler> andythenorth: in that case, I wouldn't have fixed it 18:04:18 <Rubidium> also documented in OpenTTD's readme.txt 18:04:28 <Ammler> I would add a comment about 18:04:28 <andythenorth> Ammler: no errors is not a bad thing 18:04:36 <andythenorth> makes errors stand out when they are introduced :P 18:04:36 <Ammler> or disable the error in that region 18:04:54 <planetmaker> nah, it's cleaner to take it out 18:05:01 <Ammler> andythenorth: ^ that was my initial thought about 18:05:03 <planetmaker> The VCS will remember it when it's needed 18:05:05 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:05:18 <andythenorth> it's only a real sprite in this case 18:05:28 <Rubidium> Ammler: are you talking to me that we should add a comment about that warning? 18:05:38 <Ammler> no, to andy 18:06:06 <Rubidium> good, otherwise I would've slapped you with blob.hpp:318 18:06:10 <Ammler> I just wondered about the many compile errors as I committed openttd to the obs repo 18:06:19 <Rubidium> /* In case GCC warns about the following, see GCC's PR38509 why it is bogus. */ 18:07:43 <Ammler> I setup a whole obs on a vm yesterday, but that thing uses 2GB ram alone 18:07:54 <Ammler> so I am not sure to really use it 18:09:35 <Rubidium> that's quite a lot... but do you really need to allocated 2GB to that VM? 18:09:56 <Rubidium> most of OpenTTD's compilers run happily with 384, IIRC Windows need a whopping 512 18:10:33 <frosch123> Rubidium: you can celebrate it's second birthday tomorrow 18:13:36 <Ammler> it complained about ram as I gave it 512/512 mem/swap 18:13:47 <Ammler> so I rised it to 1024/1024 18:14:24 <Ammler> they use lighty as webserver 18:16:12 <Rubidium> Ammler: and actually, that warning is only shown when assertions are disabled :) 18:17:00 <planetmaker> the obs does release builds, Ammler ? ^ 18:17:03 <Ammler> he, possible that is why I don't have so many on local trunk builds 18:17:21 <planetmaker> hm? 18:17:27 <Brot6> FISH - Revision 424:b23f93969a24: Change: add ferry graphics to Utility Vessel (Dan MacK) (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/b23f93969a24 18:17:27 <Brot6> FISH - Revision 425:958201c62041: Add: png version of utility vessel (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/958201c62041 18:17:27 <Brot6> FISH - Revision 426:de1cdd70d8e0: Feature: Utility Vessel has graphics for Passenger refit (Dan M... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/de1cdd70d8e0 18:18:28 <Ammler> planetmaker: currently we use osc, a cli tool to build our packages, this loads the packages from build.opensuse.org 18:19:20 <Ammler> we could also run our own obs, so we would be independent from opensuse.org 18:20:43 <Ammler> and obs would also care about the whole building infrastructure... 18:23:15 <Ammler> hmm, hypervisor upgrade 18:23:54 <planetmaker> Ammler: can you set mime-type for obm on bundles to txt? 18:25:02 <Ammler> hmm, is obm wrapped with download.php? 18:25:30 <Ammler> looks more like a debug file 18:27:22 <planetmaker> obm is part of openmsx 18:27:38 <planetmaker> thus one cannot view the obm file in the browser 18:30:01 <Ammler> how are the other 2 called? 18:30:02 <Brot6> FISH - Revision 427:60c4fc61b9e9: Change: suppress smoke for larger Ferries (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/60c4fc61b9e9 18:30:30 <Ammler> obg and obs, irght? 18:30:40 <planetmaker> obg and obs 18:31:21 <Ammler> ok, those should now open in the browser 18:31:29 <planetmaker> :-) Thanks you 18:32:41 <Ammler> what is the "cleanest" way to run a script (deamon) on the background? 18:32:45 <Ammler> currently I use screen 18:41:05 <planetmaker> you could use NOHUP signal 19:02:49 <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: update from r21450 to r21469 done (4 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-ez-patches/testing/r21469 19:05:19 <Brot6> clientpatches: update from r21450 to r21469 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/clientpatches/testing/r21469 19:05:51 <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r21469 still failed (#1965) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/serverpatches/testing/ERROR/r21469 19:08:27 <Brot6> FISH - Revision 428:35c8c373e5d8: Change: update changelog ahead of 0.7.0 release (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/35c8c373e5d8 19:08:27 <Brot6> FISH - Revision 429:ab713e26c9b1: Added tag 0.7.0 for changeset 35c8c373e5d8 (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/revisions/ab713e26c9b1 19:09:30 <Brot6> fish: update from 0.6.2 to 0.7.0 done (4 errors) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/fish/releases/0.7.0 19:10:57 <andythenorth> it did build for me :) 19:11:13 <planetmaker> oh. fresh fish 'n ships ;-) 19:12:24 *** Lakie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:17:47 * andythenorth refreshes bananas obsessively waiting for first download :P 19:24:18 <andythenorth> yay 19:24:25 <frosch123> 3? 19:24:43 <andythenorth> indeed 19:24:48 <andythenorth> 4 :P 19:24:52 <andythenorth> this is a pathetic game :D 19:25:05 <andythenorth> I should do something better 19:25:39 <andythenorth> planetmaker: what is HEQS stuck on? I didn't get my head around the problem cause :o 19:25:48 <andythenorth> anything I can do? 19:26:13 <planetmaker> it's stuck on the silly parameters not working like they should 19:27:10 <planetmaker> I don't quite know why 19:27:30 <andythenorth> ho 19:27:34 <andythenorth> ho well 19:27:50 <andythenorth> something we've misunderstood? 19:29:33 <planetmaker> http://pastebin.com/e9m4JUaW <-- this is what it shows here currently 19:31:27 <planetmaker> which basically is: a) make sure the (user) parameters have a value 19:31:41 <planetmaker> b) read the value of the user parameters into our own internal parameters 19:32:21 <planetmaker> c) apply the default offset to those internal params 19:32:36 <planetmaker> d) write the param into the purchase costs 19:32:44 <planetmaker> e) write the other param into the running cost 19:33:19 <andythenorth> which should all be fine... 19:33:21 <planetmaker> and the very first line skips the whole stuff for the stages which need it 19:37:09 <planetmaker> what I'm most suspicious about is the very first line. But I *think* it's correct... 19:48:59 <Ammler> oh, I still miss an answer to what is the Escapes in the nfo header for? 19:50:12 <frosch123> it's the defaultheader 19:50:20 <frosch123> you can define your own escapes 19:50:36 <Ammler> needed for grfcodec? 19:50:55 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'm stumped by what could be wrong wrt parameters 19:50:57 <frosch123> renum adds the default values, if there is no "escapes" yet 19:51:01 <Ammler> it is just a bit useless, imo 19:51:13 <andythenorth> only thing I can think to try is isolate bits of code to see what's working / not 19:51:19 <Ammler> nobody has those Escapes in the source 19:51:21 <frosch123> Ammler: renum also adds the other headerlines, if they are missing 19:51:36 * andythenorth afk 19:51:37 <frosch123> you think "do not modify, autogenerated by grfcodec" is useless? 19:51:39 <frosch123> well, yes :p 19:52:31 <Ammler> frosch123: I think, grfcodec could use the default if no Escapes are defined 19:52:39 <frosch123> it does 19:52:44 <Ammler> but renum should not write those to the nfo 19:52:54 <frosch123> sure, it should 19:53:00 <Ammler> what for? 19:53:05 <frosch123> so you can edit them 19:53:10 <Ammler> you just said, grfcodec can handle it without? 19:53:25 <frosch123> grfcodec can also handle wrong spritenumbers 19:53:29 <frosch123> still renum fixes them 19:53:29 <Ammler> frosch123: it is the processed nfo 19:53:34 <Lakie> It needs the first 3 commented lines, iirc 19:53:46 <Lakie> The escapes and such are optional 19:53:50 <Ammler> nobody edits a nfo then anymore 19:53:52 <frosch123> Ammler: what's your problem with those lines? 19:54:23 <Ammler> the non grf2html rebuild errors are because of those 19:54:50 <frosch123> oh, only about the compile diff? so, if we add a new warning we shall disable it by default? that is silly 19:55:08 <Ammler> no, you don't need to add those as they are completely useless 19:55:14 <frosch123> no, they are not 19:56:14 <Ammler> hmm, so it doesn't write there what grfcodec uses per default? 19:57:26 <Ammler> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/newgrf_makefile/file/c6c40f2df142/scripts/nfoheader.nfo <-- no Escapes there 19:57:32 <Ammler> but it works 19:57:55 <Ammler> that should btw be pnfo, planetmaker ^ 19:58:36 <planetmaker> not quite. It's not pre-processed 19:58:51 <planetmaker> it's just copied as the header of the future nfo file 20:00:52 <Ammler> planetmaker: seems not like, there are some useless Escapes lines added ;-) 20:03:05 <Ammler> also nfo is ignored by the repo, isn't? 20:04:38 <Ammler> frosch123: just confimed: 20:04:41 <Ammler> 65fde2877b1454a76ca1a3b07a457d79 ogfxe_extra.grf 20:04:42 <Ammler> 65fde2877b1454a76ca1a3b07a457d79 ogfxe_extra_no_esc.grf 20:05:02 <Ammler> both nfos give same grf, so those Escapes are really useless 20:06:42 <Ammler> (speaking about the header lines only) 20:08:13 <frosch123> then use a old renum, disable the regression or whatever 20:08:30 <Ammler> hmm, don't get it 20:08:30 <frosch123> but relying on renum's output to stay the same forever is bolluks 20:09:47 <Ammler> is it possible to disable it? 20:10:14 <frosch123> use info version 6, that disables all escapes 20:10:25 <Ammler> we do the rebuild as a kind of regression test for nforenum 20:10:26 <planetmaker> what's the issue with the escapes and the header? 20:10:42 <planetmaker> even if the escapes are not needed they don't hurt. Or what? 20:10:43 <Ammler> they are useless and cause false errors 20:10:56 <Ammler> check the errors on the rebuilds 20:11:18 <planetmaker> I see no errors due to the header 20:11:38 <Ammler> then tell me what is the difference other than nfo header? 20:13:03 <Ammler> those might make sense, if someone defines his own escapes 20:13:25 <planetmaker> I've no idea which actual failure you complain about. And I know none 20:14:22 <Ammler> tell me why the compiler complained about comic-houses 20:14:42 <planetmaker> because it was never updated and might not even have that file 20:15:21 <Ammler> check the diff :-) 20:15:26 <Ammler> (is that really that hard) 20:15:47 <Rubidium> Ammler: so you're against any type of improvements of NFOrenum that change the "output" format of the file? 20:16:03 <Ammler> Rubidium: what does that improve? 20:16:06 <Rubidium> because it makes the compiler complain that the intermediate file changed? 20:16:38 <Ammler> i just confirmed with ogfx extra, the grf is the same, so it doesn't have any impact 20:16:49 <Rubidium> IIRC this case it fixes a "misalignment" of the escapes 20:17:11 <planetmaker> Ammler: comic_houses is not a good argument. It's unmaintained currently 20:17:19 <Rubidium> Ammler: and yes, escapes for OpenGFX generally don't have much of an influence because you're basically using NONE of them there 20:17:23 <Ammler> the whole escapes are useless, not improvments of it 20:17:32 <Rubidium> doesn't mean that *most* other ones do use escapes 20:17:33 <planetmaker> Ammler: they once were required 20:17:36 <Ammler> (default escapes in the header) 20:18:41 <frosch123> they add compatiblity 20:18:56 <frosch123> you can also use newer default escapes with older grfcodec 20:18:59 <Rubidium> *also*, since OpenGFX does (occasionally) use escapes it *must* have those escapes in the header otherwise it'll become a mess when compiling with "too old" GRFCodecs 20:20:05 <Rubidium> or is missing nforenum a "failure" event? 20:30:40 <Lakie> I'm unsure it is also applies to OpenTTD (or it got changed), but if I use maketempscreenblock, do I need to do anything before I can call it again to create a new one? 20:31:54 <frosch123> what does "maketempscreenblock" do? :) 20:32:03 <frosch123> we have different function names 20:32:23 <frosch123> maybe setting the clipping-rectangle? 20:34:43 <Lakie> I think so 20:35:08 <frosch123> the active clipping rect is stored in some global variable 20:35:25 <frosch123> you have to save that, and restore it afterwards 20:35:30 <frosch123> (at least in ottd :) 20:35:55 <Lakie> Heh, ok 20:36:37 <Lakie> Sounjds like it got nicely renovated for OpenTTD. :) 20:43:36 <Ammler> hmm, you don't get me :'-( the escapes are not in the nfo from ogfx, those are added on building the grf, else of course, it wouldn't be useless and also wouldn't produce false error 20:45:02 <Brot6> Grf2Html - Revision 232: Fix: Zero unused palette entries in bounding box preview images. (frosch) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grf2html/repository/revisions/232 20:48:54 <planetmaker> Ammler: Yes. But _earlier_ grfcodec versions needed that header 20:49:05 <planetmaker> or (nfo)renum 20:49:39 <planetmaker> I added that funky header file only as it didn't work without 20:49:51 <Ammler> well, I give up, I am not able to explain it understandable... 20:50:16 <Rubidium> Ammler: your problem is that NFORenum does add something that is not needed for the current GRFCodec 20:50:41 <Ammler> s/your/the/ 20:50:42 <planetmaker> Rubidium: my makefiles explicitly supply those escapes 20:50:57 <planetmaker> independent of nforenum. 20:51:26 <planetmaker> as I had at one stage troubles without having such header. 20:51:27 <Ammler> maybe you guys aren't aware the grfcodec and nforenum are in the same package now 20:51:38 <planetmaker> yes? 20:52:03 <planetmaker> Ammler: show me: what. is. your. problem? 20:52:31 <Rubidium> Ammler: that doesn't mean that people use the same version of both 20:52:37 <planetmaker> it must definitely something which I can't reproduce here and which also doesn't show when I check my logs from the CF 20:52:38 <Ammler> hmm, indeed, it seems to be my problem only. So never mind. 20:52:45 <Rubidium> and that also doesn't mean that someone nforenums they nfo and then distributes that 20:53:13 <planetmaker> or we look at the same and you see something else than I do. 20:53:25 <planetmaker> I _really_ don't know what 'error' you keep complaining 20:53:27 <planetmaker> about 20:53:45 <Ammler> it is fine to have custom Escape in the header, it is just stupid to add default escapes with renum 20:54:17 <planetmaker> Ammler: also with an old nforenum? 20:55:13 <Ammler> planetmaker: the rebuild error of comic houses is just because of those escape lines, which are added from nforenum, not from the project itself 20:55:20 <Ammler> you really don't see that? 20:55:22 <frosch123> Ammler: let's say "specifying escapes is mandatory" 20:55:47 <Ammler> frosch123: it isn't, I proved that with ogfx extra 20:55:56 <planetmaker> Ammler: I don't look at its compile logs 20:55:58 <Ammler> both grfs are the same, how is that possible? 20:55:59 <frosch123> fine, shall i remove support for grfcodec defaults? 20:56:13 <frosch123> grfcodec supports the defaults _only_ for compatibliity 20:56:14 <planetmaker> or hardly 20:56:21 <Rubidium> where is that quote when you need it... 20:56:31 <Ammler> :-) 20:56:44 <Rubidium> "be strict with what you send and lenient with what you receive" (something like that) 20:56:57 <Ammler> I see it might be needed, if you build with pre 5.0 20:56:57 <planetmaker> Ammler: are you happy when I disable nightly compiles for comic houses? 20:57:11 <Ammler> planetmaker: please don't be silly 20:57:30 <Ammler> comic houses is just an example, it happens quite often 20:57:43 <planetmaker> well. The issue seems to be that the current comic houses have an old version of everything. 20:57:47 <Ammler> rebuild error just of useless escape lines in the header 20:57:54 <Rubidium> "be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from 20:57:56 <planetmaker> When they get updated the error would vanish 20:58:00 <Ammler> planetmaker: no 20:58:04 <Rubidium> others" [September 1981] 20:58:21 <Rubidium> (rfc793) 20:58:30 <planetmaker> he :-) 20:58:33 <planetmaker> good quote 20:58:54 <Rubidium> GRFCodec and NFORenum use that same robustness principle as TCP does 20:59:04 <Ammler> Rubidium: I hoped you can give me a example where it is useful to have those escapes headers generated on building 20:59:54 <planetmaker> Ammler: IMHO this is a clear case of "new compiler complains about old code". Obviously the CF doesn't complain about existing, maintained projects 21:00:07 <Ammler> planetmaker: no 21:00:09 <Rubidium> you have a NFO, which you run through NFORenum and then (together with some PCXes) distribute 21:00:15 <Ammler> new compiler doesn't complain about it 21:00:52 <Brot6> WebOTTD - Revision 75:f12d77d707a9: Codechange: merge the news section with index.php and remove ... (avdg) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/webottd/repository/revisions/f12d77d707a9 21:00:59 <Rubidium> then *even* people with older GRFCodecs, that did not know about those (new) default escapes you're using can still compile the nfo + pcx into a grf 21:01:00 <Ammler> it is the difference which failes, which is fine useally, just in this case, it is simply stupid 21:01:30 <Ammler> Rubidium: but then, they have that lines in the nfo 21:01:36 <Ammler> which is not the case here 21:01:46 <Ammler> that is the whole point, menno :-P 21:02:19 <Rubidium> Ammler: but... you're using escapes in that NewGRF 21:02:27 <planetmaker> we agree that it's stupid. yes. But this difference is that the output is different with an old tool chain from our new tool chain. 21:02:29 <Rubidium> which you do not declare 21:02:37 <planetmaker> I consider that not bothersome, but quite normal 21:02:43 <Ammler> Rubidium: yes 21:02:47 <Ammler> exactly 21:03:03 <Ammler> now you add defaults to the header, which might be wrong, how useful is that? 21:03:28 <planetmaker> Ammler: the defaults for the escapes changed 21:03:43 <planetmaker> Thus the output from July and from now differs 21:03:55 <Ammler> yes, and your nfo is based on the old 21:03:56 <planetmaker> thus the rebuild detects a difference 21:04:05 <Ammler> now you renum your nfo with newer renum 21:04:08 <planetmaker> yes. See. Old code, new tools. --> Complaints 21:04:23 <planetmaker> the logical thing would be to update the code. Comic houses 21:04:42 <Ammler> yes, and now tell me why it is useful to add those new wrong specs? 21:04:58 <planetmaker> if I compile OpenTTD 0.5.0 now the binary also looks different than the one compiled back then 21:05:02 <planetmaker> Nothing wrong with that 21:05:14 <Ammler> yes, then nforenum should complain about missing escapes definition, not just add defaults 21:05:34 <frosch123> Ammler: just update the regression 21:05:48 <Ammler> frosch123: just don't add wrong escapes lines 21:05:48 <frosch123> noai regression is also updated when we change something 21:05:58 <planetmaker> which means to update the nfo stored from comic_houses 21:06:01 <frosch123> Ammler: damn, they are mandatory, you have to add them 21:06:08 <Ammler> now after this chat, I can consider it as bug :-) 21:06:14 <Ammler> before it was just useless 21:06:21 <frosch123> shall we add a warning: your code does not supply a escapes line, we are not going to encode it 21:06:22 <Rubidium> robustness principle... 21:06:28 <Ammler> frosch123: but we don't 21:06:36 <Ammler> nforenum does add those 21:06:51 <Ammler> which is what I try to tell you since? 21:07:20 <frosch123> Ammler: i hope you will never complain if nml learns some optimising and the resulting grf changes 21:07:34 <Ammler> frosch123: you don't get it 21:07:40 <frosch123> no, you don't get it 21:07:43 <Ammler> :-D 21:08:10 <Rubidium> Ammler: you say NFORenum must not be adding *anything* that isn't in the original nfo? 21:08:14 <frosch123> the regression is for grfcodec/nforenum 21:08:18 <frosch123> not the other way around 21:08:39 <Ammler> Rubidium: no, did I? 21:08:57 <frosch123> yes, you did 21:09:17 <Ammler> I said, it should not add wrong escape definition 21:09:32 <Rubidium> they are *not* wrong 21:09:39 <Ammler> I only spoke about those escape lines in the header added by nforenum 21:10:09 <Ammler> why do you now spread that to the whole nfo? :-P 21:10:20 <frosch123> oh, well 21:10:21 *** frosch123 has left #openttdcoop.devzone 21:10:39 <Ammler> yes, good night from my side too 21:10:53 <Ammler> anyway :-) 21:12:18 <planetmaker> :-( 21:12:50 <planetmaker> my goodness 21:25:12 <planetmaker> 1 1/2 Stunden ... alle Leute sind frustriert. Und das nur, weil alter Code mit neuen Tools Warnungen produziert :-( 22:23:08 *** michi_cc has quit IRC 22:39:25 <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Bug #1956: Bundles Folders Dates not updated (athanasios) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1956#change-5008 22:42:37 <Brot6> #openttdcoop - Bug #1956: Bundles Folders Dates not updated (athanasios) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1956#change-5009 22:52:51 *** michi_cc has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 23:07:23 <V453000> andythenorth: lol :D heqs has a train ? :D 23:07:25 *** thgergo has quit IRC 23:07:48 <andythenorth> yes 23:08:07 <andythenorth> it's kind of small :) 23:08:29 <V453000> will there be more? 23:09:38 <andythenorth> there might be some wagons for it 23:09:41 <andythenorth> small ones 23:09:55 <V453000> I see 23:12:40 *** thgergo has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 23:15:25 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 23:19:36 *** michi_cc has quit IRC 23:19:38 *** michi_cc has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 23:39:16 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Revision 570:cbac5b0faa4e: Feature #1959: Red-nose for Ploddyphut bus and sugar truck (... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/revisions/cbac5b0faa4e