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00:35:44 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 00:56:04 <Brot6> British Rail OpenTTD Set - Support #2574 (Resolved): Coder AWOL (welshdragon) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2574#change-8530 01:59:19 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #3105: Länderbahn electric engines and MUs (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3105#change-8533 06:29:20 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:43:50 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:00:54 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:44:53 *** ODM has quit IRC 09:52:36 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:59:49 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:17:56 *** hanf has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:47:46 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:58:03 *** hanf has quit IRC 11:21:51 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 11:27:19 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:38:02 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 11:39:08 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:51:47 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 12:06:32 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:16:00 *** ChillCore has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:16:11 <ChillCore> Good day all. 12:16:52 <planetmaker> hello ChillCore 12:18:22 <ChillCore> hello planetmaker. 12:20:10 <ChillCore> Have anyone read my last post the mhl thread? Just wondering if I did not say too many stupid stuff? 12:21:10 <ChillCore> s Have/Has note to self ... type at slower rate. 12:23:18 <planetmaker> not thoroughly. But one thing: the MIN_DESERT_HEIGHT would need to be 1 12:23:39 <planetmaker> the settings.ini stores the absolute minimum and maximum of the variable. And the default 12:24:05 <planetmaker> And abs. min and max would need to be IMHO the same as MAX_HEIGHTLEVEL. Or maybe a bit lower for the desert, but I don't see why 12:24:22 <planetmaker> min of course 0 or 1 12:26:09 <ChillCore> But current trunk uses 4 for upper desert line as it is. The patch allows to mody that. lower desert line is handled differently (tiles from shore) and this is not changed. 12:26:43 <ChillCore> s mody/modify 12:27:03 <planetmaker> ah, yes, the upper desert line. But... well. Maybe I mis-read. The minimum IMHO should, if it becomes a variable, be 1 12:27:10 <planetmaker> default could still be 4 or so 12:27:37 <planetmaker> maybe one is a bad idea, though. Not sure. But... it'd just give a different map. And doesn't hurt much 12:28:13 <ChillCore> If max desert line is the same as MAX_HEIGHTLEVEL then it is possible to create games without rainforest. (except for the tiny bit that reamins at the shores) 12:28:36 <planetmaker> and next to rivers 12:29:03 <ChillCore> I did not yet test that as the patch I gave ic111 is from before rivers 12:29:23 <planetmaker> rivers always have grass adjacent 12:29:59 <planetmaker> anyway, I don't see a need to forcefully limit it to 4. Might not give good maps, but some scenario makers might like it 12:30:27 <planetmaker> Or is there any reason other than "little desert" or "little rainforest" to disallow any height for either min or max? 12:30:44 <ChillCore> rivers are generated before or after desert generation (rainforest is generated after desert)? 12:30:44 <planetmaker> After all we also allow snowline height of 255 12:30:57 <planetmaker> rivers are generated after. but then change the tiletype 12:31:35 <planetmaker> dunno the other 12:32:58 <ChillCore> industry generation might fail? True snowline goes down to level 2 too (snowline if from top down to snowline -> inverse) 12:33:50 <ChillCore> and limit is MAX_HEIGHTLEVEL - 2 12:34:02 <ChillCore> ^^^ upper 12:36:23 <ChillCore> as for desert you may not set the upper limit lower than the lower limit ... I think this would cause trouble on mapgeneration (read: "lower" line is tiles from shore which could be higher then 1.) 12:36:36 <ChillCore> not sure though. 12:39:50 <ChillCore> s limit/line * 2 12:40:41 <frosch123> is the desert-height setting really a good idea? 12:40:54 <frosch123> i would leave everything to a single map-gen setting "max height" 12:41:05 <frosch123> so, desert-height = max-heigth / 4 or so 12:41:24 <frosch123> also, i think the max-height must be fixed at map generation, any may not be altered in gmae 12:41:43 <frosch123> e.g. i would expect the snowline to jump :p 12:42:25 <ChillCore> I sugested to clamp it according to max_height selected and before I sugested to do maxheight / 4 but he made it 255 in his patch. 12:42:49 <ChillCore> frosh: are you working an an all climates patch? :P 12:43:00 <frosch123> well, imo a desert setting depending on height is confusing at best, and makes no sense 12:43:07 <ChillCore> snow - desert in the same game? 12:43:39 <frosch123> if there would be a desert-amount setting it should be like the other map gen settings "few"..."much" 12:44:01 <frosch123> ChillCore: all climate always looked damn ugly to me, so no :p 12:44:33 <frosch123> also the use-case for all-climate seems to be restricted to 2kx2k maps representing the worldmap 12:44:42 <frosch123> while there is no use in a random generated map 12:44:56 <frosch123> you cannot mix tilesets in other games either. it just makes no sense 12:45:57 <ChillCore> As I sugested it now player could still select both max height and desertline but desert line could not be higher than max_height / 4 * 3 to preserve some rainforest in the game 12:46:29 <frosch123> well, for mhl i would suggest to not add a setting for desert 12:46:33 <andythenorth> frosch123: snow-rainforest-desert :) 12:46:38 <frosch123> just fix it at max-height / 4 12:46:42 <frosch123> everything else is a different patch 12:47:12 <frosch123> and imo, a desert height makes no sense. it should be "few" or "many" etc, and not only related to height 12:47:25 <ChillCore> I was joking about the all climates .... as you mentioned snowline. 12:47:54 <frosch123> andythenorth: yeah, lots of code for a single "kilimanjaro" scenario 12:47:55 * andythenorth thinks it would be witty to have snow as a height feature, rather than limited to a specific climate 12:48:40 <ChillCore> frosh: just fix it at max-height / 4 <- "+ leave out the gui stuff" was my first suggestion 12:49:05 * andythenorth ponders reading the code for tile bits :P 12:49:16 * andythenorth does real work instead 12:49:37 <frosch123> anyway, i took a look at mhl last night 12:49:49 <ChillCore> but ic111 has his way of coming up often with something entirely different then suggested at times. 12:49:49 <frosch123> most code seems to be about creating virtual heights outside of the map 12:50:06 <frosch123> which i really wonder why that is required and cannot be done easier ... :s 12:50:14 <ChillCore> that has to be handled too unfortenatly. 12:50:29 <ChillCore> -> glitches 12:50:40 <ChillCore> and crash with aircraft 12:50:53 <frosch123> well, yes, but he seems to draw black tile sprites 12:51:12 <frosch123> why can't he just draw black rectangles without any sprite? 12:51:17 <ChillCore> unselectable industries and towns etc. 12:51:49 <frosch123> yes, he might need better start value for the fix-point iteration 12:52:56 <ChillCore> bounding box in regards of drawing outside the map IIRC. in reply to your question. 12:53:15 <ChillCore> current trunk that is. 12:53:35 <ChillCore> and at level zero. 12:55:25 <ChillCore> trunk assumes that past a certain point nothing has to be drawn anymore. tile (1,1,0) + 15 levels + some more and then it stops -> glitches 12:56:09 <ChillCore> so that is why he draws the black tiles ... other reasons you may have to ask him. 12:56:40 <ChillCore> + handles things outside the map too 12:59:31 <ChillCore> I am sure you know that OpenTTD is a chessboard game ... all the rest is an illusion :P 13:06:26 <V453000> checkmate 13:06:40 <ChillCore> So, yes there is a lot of code that handles the virtual heights outside the map. But only because else there would not be mhl to start with. 13:06:59 <ChillCore> lol V45300 :p 13:07:08 <ChillCore> +0 13:07:56 <planetmaker> learn to use auto-completion, ChillCore ;-) 13:08:03 <planetmaker> (for me tab auto-completes nicknames) 13:08:41 <V453000> :PP 13:09:07 <ChillCore> Maybe it could be handled differently but I would not now how, I do not think ic111 will be willing to restart unless it is just changing something simple in trurnk and leaving out chunks of code in mhl. 13:09:10 <V453000> particularly useful for some stupid nicknames as mine :P 13:09:25 <ChillCore> planetmaker: it works thanks. 13:09:44 <V453000> back to school ... have a nice day 13:09:52 <ChillCore> you too. 13:14:27 <ChillCore> Also IIRC ic111 tried a few different things when he started and current implementation was the least resource demanding. 13:28:52 <ChillCore> Should I tell ic111 that it is prefered to set desert line at maxheight / 4 and forget about letting the player choose? I think that he will easier accept if a Dev told him. 13:29:23 <planetmaker> you could quote the IRC discussion 13:29:47 <planetmaker> (the relevant part thereof) 13:30:00 <ChillCore> It should not be too big of a problem as it is his top patch and would not have conflicts to solve in the others because of changing this. 13:30:32 <ChillCore> planetmaker: I could do that but I thought "what happens on IRC ... " 13:30:49 <planetmaker> hu? 13:30:57 <planetmaker> @logs 13:30:58 <Webster> #openttdcoop IRC webstuff - IRC Log Viewer - http://webster.openttdcoop.org/ 13:31:36 <ChillCore> If it is ok to frosh I will qoute him on that. 13:32:03 <planetmaker> I'd cut out the relevant part manually and post / paste in the forum that 13:32:17 <planetmaker> Easier to follow a discussion that way :-) 13:33:18 <ChillCore> Ah logs thanks... about hu? I have read some remarks (elsewhere) that said: "what happens on irc stays on irc" so I thought it would not be appreciated. 13:33:18 <planetmaker> and reading IRC logs usually is not fun anyway ;-) 13:33:31 <planetmaker> well. In principle that's right 13:33:45 <planetmaker> but many openttd channels have logs 13:34:20 <ChillCore> ^^^ I know ... they are fun browsing .... sometimes 13:34:50 <ChillCore> http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd hehe 13:34:54 <planetmaker> yeah 13:35:19 <planetmaker> maybe not quote his channel's log URL :-) 13:35:25 <planetmaker> I like it to be a bit "private" :-) 13:35:26 <ChillCore> Big brother is watching you ... 13:35:33 <ChillCore> I understand 13:35:47 <ChillCore> that is why I was hesitant 13:36:05 <planetmaker> but quoting from IRC by paste.. oh well :-) especially not if it's on-topic 13:36:11 <planetmaker> *not a problem 13:36:26 <ChillCore> stuff blabbed out here might not be official point of view :P 13:36:37 <planetmaker> lol 13:36:50 <Yexo> ChillCore: there is no "official point of view" 13:37:06 <planetmaker> fun fact is, there's no official "OpenTTD view". There's only the individual views of people. Some might be developers 13:37:14 <ChillCore> people might take it that way. 13:37:39 <planetmaker> they might. Doesn't make it necessarily right, though :-) 13:37:54 <planetmaker> sometimes that mis-conception isn't too bad, though ;-) 13:38:12 <ChillCore> I think too far ahead ... I know .... story of my life. 13:38:13 <planetmaker> And in a surprising number of things "we" devs naturally agree 13:38:41 <Yexo> ^^ or don't care :) 13:38:42 <planetmaker> but as we say here "We also only cook with water" 13:38:47 <planetmaker> or that ;-) 13:39:10 <Yexo> and it's not that surprising 13:39:13 <ChillCore> :) 13:39:24 <Yexo> someone who constantly disagrees over what or how things should be done is unlikely to become a dev 13:39:36 <planetmaker> :-) 13:39:42 <planetmaker> also that, yes 13:39:51 <ChillCore> so max_height / 4 no gui it is then. 13:40:39 <planetmaker> I won't disagree :-). And if it would be needed anytime, it can be a patch anytime later, completely independent. 13:41:02 <ChillCore> lol I thought it was still frosh talking instead of Yexo ... hi Yexo 13:41:10 <planetmaker> hehe 13:41:28 <planetmaker> frosch and y3xo have different colours here. But you and frosch have the same... 13:41:40 * ChillCore rubs dirt out of eyes 13:42:07 <ChillCore> I did not even pay attention. 13:42:26 <ChillCore> slow morning ... too much beer yesterday 13:43:13 <ChillCore> only a little too much though. it's not like I emptied a case 13:55:42 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:21:32 <ChillCore> planetmaker: Ok like this? http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/759/ 14:21:49 <ChillCore> Just thinking ... better safe than sorry 14:29:29 <frosch123> it is missing the context 14:29:49 <frosch123> hmm, or does "patch 240" say enough? :) 14:31:41 <ChillCore> For ic111 yes, unless he forgets fast , but I may add it for other people to be able to follow. I did that too in my last post. :P 14:32:24 <ChillCore> And I think I saw him do the same before ... think is the keyword 14:32:40 <ChillCore> Do I add something else before posting. 14:33:37 <ChillCore> or remove something ... like your nick for example? 14:34:25 <ChillCore> It does not really matter who said it ;) 14:34:55 <frosch123> maybe drop the that last thing about the virtual heights 14:35:02 <frosch123> i did not look into the details too much 14:35:37 <frosch123> and requesting a general explanation for unspecific stuff is more work for him, and use for anyone else 14:36:48 <ChillCore> Ok no prob, still I would like to know what exactly he tried before ... I can always ask him later. 14:43:23 <ChillCore> posted ... just let me know if I need to edit or add something. 14:49:42 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 15:08:18 <frosch123> does nml set the "32px vehicle length" thingie by default? 15:09:21 <planetmaker> not afaik 15:09:36 <frosch123> so, i blame fs#4839 to not set it 15:09:51 <frosch123> do you know out of you head what he has to set? 15:11:04 <planetmaker> train_width_32_px http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:General#General_variables 15:11:20 <planetmaker> but not known by heart, admittedly 15:12:11 <frosch123> :) 15:12:20 <frosch123> wanna link to that from the task? 15:12:43 <planetmaker> I thought you were already answering it. But I could do so, too 15:14:06 <planetmaker> replied to it 15:14:41 <planetmaker> but maybe it should be the default for NewGRFs? 15:15:01 <planetmaker> And NML should introduce a variable like 29px_in_depot ? :-) 15:18:19 <Yexo> train_width_32_px = 0; <- that already works 15:18:33 <Yexo> I'm not in favour of changing the default however 15:19:17 <planetmaker> of course that works. But... I doubt there's any train NewGRF which has that flag NOT set 15:19:28 <planetmaker> But it might pose a problem for OpenGFX 15:19:50 <Yexo> more trouble than it's worth to change 15:19:55 <Yexo> every set should just set it 15:20:13 <planetmaker> Well. Then it could be NML's default, couldn't it? And only OpenGFX sets it = 0 15:21:16 <Yexo> that means either nml has to detect if any trains are used, or would set that flag even for industry sets 15:21:42 <planetmaker> it only makes sense in the first scenario, sure 15:22:10 <planetmaker> And no, it's nothing I'd personally attribute high priority to. But it's one of those small little foot traps 15:22:14 <frosch123> the flag is grf-local in ottd 15:55:52 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/swedishrails-r213M.zip <-- V453000 could you please test whether the tunnel parameter works again for you as it should? 15:57:42 *** hanf has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:58:34 <V453000> sure, not right now, but in 1 hour 15:58:40 <planetmaker> sweet :-) 16:06:30 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #3105: Länderbahn electric engines and MUs (Eddi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3105#change-8534 16:25:38 *** hanf has quit IRC 16:37:50 <Brot6> Central European Train Set - Feature #3105: Länderbahn electric engines and MUs (oberhuemer) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3105#change-8535 17:19:59 <Brot6> heqs: update from r712 to r713 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/heqs/nightlies/r713 17:23:09 <Brot6> vactrainset: compile of r1 still failed (#3044) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/vactrainset/nightlies/ERROR/r1 18:11:12 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:12:04 <planetmaker> uhm, frosch123, was there ever a grf2html repo on the DevZone? 18:12:43 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 18:13:14 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:14:11 <planetmaker> ah, no 18:15:42 <planetmaker> though... the svn seems dead or unreachable 18:17:30 <planetmaker> as such I guess the issue why I don't have it is availability of binary 18:18:44 <frosch123> orudge: grfmaker.zernebok.net does not reply to ping 18:19:15 <frosch123> though maybe we could move it to hg anyway 18:19:48 <planetmaker> unavailability of a svn repo shows how much "better" dvcs are :-) 18:22:50 <V453000> planetmaker: works :) thanks 18:31:42 <planetmaker> hm, it does? Funny. Doesn't for me :-O 18:38:20 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:53:34 *** orudge has quit IRC 18:53:36 *** orudge has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:55:20 <V453000> :D how come? 18:55:52 <planetmaker> *that* I'd like to know :-) 18:57:19 <Rubidium> planetmaker: svn is so much better for my work ;) 18:57:35 <planetmaker> which of your work? 18:57:38 <Rubidium> how often people "forget" to commit stuff, well I wouldn't want to add the step of pushing as well 18:57:43 <Rubidium> planetmaker: paid work ;) 18:58:18 <Rubidium> especially when it's binary files with non-existent to imaginary merge support 18:58:26 <planetmaker> ok :-) 18:58:48 <Rubidium> though I like OpenTTD's hybrid ;) 18:58:56 <planetmaker> yes, that works very well 18:59:14 <planetmaker> but I'd not like see the dvcs option gone 18:59:31 <planetmaker> having one svn as authorative... well, that's ok :-) 19:02:45 <Brot6> clientpatches: compile of r23229 still failed (#2964) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/clientpatches/testing/ERROR/r23229 19:04:46 <Brot6> serverpatches: compile of r23229 still failed (#2966) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/serverpatches/testing/ERROR/r23229 19:06:53 <Brot6> 32bpp-ez-patches: compile of r23229 still failed (#2446) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-ez-patches/testing/ERROR/r23229 19:14:11 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:14:47 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:46:17 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 19:48:33 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:52:16 <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - trams_offsets.png (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2092/trams_offsets.png 19:57:54 <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - tram_offsets_2.png (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2093/tram_offsets_2.png 20:35:49 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:36:38 *** hanf has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:37:18 *** JVassie has quit IRC 20:46:58 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1629: Review conversion for speed property (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1629#change-8536 20:48:56 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 20:50:39 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #1629: Review conversion for speed property (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1629#change-8537 20:54:08 *** JVassie_ has quit IRC 20:58:52 <Ammler> planetmaker: then you could use hgsubversion which openttd should anyway 20:59:15 <planetmaker> then? 20:59:34 <planetmaker> oh, you mean with grf2html? 20:59:38 <planetmaker> yes 20:59:53 <Ammler> no, with openttd removes his silly "official" hg repo 21:00:39 <Ammler> it should use a hg repo which is bidirectional 21:06:53 *** hanf has quit IRC 21:18:26 *** hanf has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 21:51:27 *** LordAro has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 21:51:58 *** ODM has quit IRC 21:55:12 *** LordAro has quit IRC 22:00:37 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 22:03:59 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:13:25 <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #3247 (New): Tram offsets need to vary according to drive side (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3247 22:15:21 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 22:17:05 <Brot6> HEQS "Heavy Equipment" Set - Bug #3247 (New): Tram offsets need to vary according to drive side (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3247 22:17:51 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:52:40 *** welshdragon has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 23:22:30 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 23:43:13 *** JVassie has quit IRC