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00:11:42 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3563: Road depot variants for arctic and tropic (athanasios) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3563#change-9275 00:12:03 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 00:54:16 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #1348: Bridge support (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1348#change-9276 04:05:11 *** MinchinWeb has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 04:05:53 <MinchinWeb> how do I get nmlc to run (on Windows)? 04:06:32 <MinchinWeb> I need getting an error "Error: only a single nml file can be read per run" 04:06:43 <MinchinWeb> I kept getting that error, rather 04:14:29 <MinchinWeb> or nmlc seems to go into a infinite loop (it never finishes) 04:28:09 <MinchinWeb> (I'm running r1788 on Windows...) 05:11:24 *** MinchinWeb has quit IRC 08:10:33 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:40:15 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest146 08:40:16 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:40:16 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 08:43:59 <Brot6> DACH Trains - Feature #3525: ÖBB City Shuttle double deck control car (officercrockey) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3525#change-9277 08:45:45 <Brot6> DACH Trains - Feature #3535: ÖBB City Shuttle control car (officercrockey) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3535#change-9278 09:10:24 <Brot6> DACH Trains - Feature #3535: ÖBB City Shuttle control car (Yoshi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3535#change-9279 09:11:41 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:12:07 *** Zuu has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:20:24 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:23:33 <Brot6> DACH Trains - Revision 41:9a38071c2501: added SBB IC2000 (officercrockey) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dach/repository/revisions/9a38071c2501 09:23:33 <Brot6> DACH Trains - Feature #3532 (Closed): SBB IC2000 coaches (officercrockey) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3532#change-9285 09:24:44 <Brot6> DACH Trains - Feature #3535: ÖBB City Shuttle control car (officercrockey) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3535#change-9286 09:34:15 <Brot6> DACH Trains - Revision 42:c194e92cb87d: added SBB IC 2000 control car (officercrockey) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dach/repository/revisions/c194e92cb87d 09:34:15 <Brot6> DACH Trains - Feature #3533 (Closed): SBB IC 2000 control car (officercrockey) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3533#change-9287 10:01:52 <Brot6> DACH Trains - Revision 43:531ebc1261d6: push-pull for IC 2000 (with Re 460) (officercrockey) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dach/repository/revisions/531ebc1261d6 10:02:20 <Brot6> DACH Trains - Feature #3550 (Closed): push-pull for SBB IC2000 (officercrockey) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3550#change-9288 10:07:07 <Brot6> DACH Trains - Revision 44:f6b12a1b4922: updated additional text of TRAXX (officercrockey) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dach/repository/revisions/f6b12a1b4922 10:25:30 *** ODM has quit IRC 10:36:06 <Brot6> OpenGFX BigGUI - Feature Request #3568 (New): x1.5 sized GUI (Yoshi) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3568 10:58:54 <Brot6> BANDIT - Feature #3567 (Closed): Set fixed IDs (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3567 10:58:54 <Brot6> BANDIT - Revision 123:22a5eb7a4945: Change: set numeric IDs for vehicles (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/revisions/22a5eb7a4945 10:58:54 <Brot6> BANDIT - Feature #3567 (Closed): Set fixed IDs (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3567#change-9289 11:00:10 <Brot6> BANDIT - Feature #3400 (Closed): Consider templating spritegroups / spritesets (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3400#change-9290 11:00:46 <Brot6> BANDIT - Feature #3569 (New): CMS template needs to handle truck_type (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3569 11:03:28 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Feature Request #3570 (New): highway and speed signs in combination with a... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3570 11:07:36 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #3571 (New): default cargo (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3571 11:43:17 *** JVassie has quit IRC 11:43:38 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:48:20 <Brot6> DACH Trains - Revision 45:4b5ee9d9cb7b: added BLS RABe 535 (officercrockey) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dach/repository/revisions/4b5ee9d9cb7b 11:55:05 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 11:58:08 <Brot6> DACH Trains - Revision 46:89813f943798: fixed BLS 535 offset (officercrockey) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dach/repository/revisions/89813f943798 12:00:46 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 12:00:52 <Brot6> BANDIT - Revision 124:009c5a3624e4: Change: set intro dates (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/revisions/009c5a3624e4 12:02:00 *** JVassie has quit IRC 12:03:52 *** JVassie_ has quit IRC 12:04:17 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #1348: Bridge support (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1348#change-9291 12:04:55 <Brot6> OpenGFX BigGUI - Revision 3:7cde98b9618e: Fix: Order of rail tool icons was partially erronous (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-biggui/repository/revisions/7cde98b9618e 12:04:55 <Brot6> OpenGFX BigGUI - Revision 4:92c0618f470e: Add: Parameter and sprites to allow choosing 1.5x zoom ... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-biggui/repository/revisions/92c0618f470e 12:12:02 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Feature Request #3572 (New): median with light posts (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3572 12:25:05 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #1348: Bridge support (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1348#change-9292 12:25:10 <Brot6> OpenGFX BigGUI - Revision 5:ac5678b0167b: Fix: Glyphs must have palette index 0 and 1 only. Colou... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-biggui/repository/revisions/ac5678b0167b 12:53:26 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Feature Request #3079 (Rejected): Medians with no central tile (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3079#change-9293 13:13:26 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Bug #3573 (New): overbuildable object are also overbuilt by town owned hou... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3573 13:13:26 <Brot6> Dutch Road Furniture - Bug #3574 (New): shoulder ends don't recognize all relevant other objects ... (foobar) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3574 13:14:33 <Brot6> BANDIT - Revision 125:1044ee84c752: Change: set various vehicle properties (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/revisions/1044ee84c752 13:16:29 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:46:21 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 13:51:57 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:06:26 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Feature Request #3575 (New): Wind turbine orientations (PaulC) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3575 14:09:23 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Feature Request #3575: Wind turbine orientations (PaulC) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3575#change-9294 14:19:34 <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 21:43bedcadf035: Updates to english.txt by Pingaware (Zuu) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial/repository/revisions/43bedcadf035 14:19:34 <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 22:eee49e9af527: Fix: wrong comment (Zuu) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial/repository/revisions/eee49e9af527 14:29:03 * Hirundo installs Debian VM 14:29:44 <planetmaker> do we get back a dev'ing Hirundo? :-) 14:35:14 <Hirundo> perhaps ... ;-) 14:38:57 <Ammler> why else should he announce it here? :-P 14:39:14 <Brot6> DACH Trains - Feature #3521 (Closed): BLS Rabe 535 Lötschberger (officercrockey) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3521#change-9295 14:46:26 <Hirundo> I'm not sure I'll have much time to develop large features, but bug fixes and small features should work 15:16:17 <Ammler> planetmaker: the mail is a bit confusing, but there is a extra ttdp thread to discuss such things 15:16:58 <Ammler> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=44560 15:16:59 <Webster> Title: Transport Tycoon Forums View topic - [TTDP] OpenGFX 0.4 for TTDPatch (at www.tt-forums.net) 15:22:14 <Brot6> BANDIT - Revision 126:6be28b5b605d: Fix: correct capacity refit for fifth wheel trucks (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/revisions/6be28b5b605d 15:35:41 <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 23:149def4d7467: Add: ConditionalStep (Zuu) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial/repository/revisions/149def4d7467 15:35:41 <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 24:39fd1e9c791f: Add: If quick_goto is off, tell the user to click on the GoT... (Zuu) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial/repository/revisions/39fd1e9c791f 15:48:55 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/CargoMagic12traditional.dot.png http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/CargoMagic12newmultiplier.dot.png <- better? 15:49:08 <frosch123> ( http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/newcapacity/50_cargoprop.diff http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/newcapacity/60_engineflag.diff ) 15:49:24 <andythenorth> frosch123: less spaghetti 15:49:37 <andythenorth> you don't like all that spaghetti? :P 15:49:44 <andythenorth> it makes creating vehicles such fun too :P 15:49:54 <frosch123> he, i could put them in one graph 15:50:25 <frosch123> i could also add grfv8 :p 15:51:11 <frosch123> replaced cargoslot with cargotype, so it applies to both v7 and v8 :p 15:51:26 <andythenorth> I have no idea if it's accurate :D 15:55:17 <frosch123> why is eddi not in this channel, it is also meant for cets 16:02:06 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:03:34 <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 25:eaf08f388fd0: Version 5 (Zuu) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial/repository/revisions/eaf08f388fd0 16:15:25 <Brot6> BANDIT - Revision 127:f34ca7c6d7ef: Change: split capacity of fifth wheel trucks over truck and f... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/revisions/f34ca7c6d7ef 16:16:11 <Brot6> BANDIT - Feature #3569 (Closed): CMS template needs to handle truck_type (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3569#change-9296 16:16:41 <Brot6> BANDIT - Feature #3576 (New): Don't offer subtype refits for fifth wheel trucks with 1 trailer (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3576 16:20:17 <Brot6> BANDIT - Feature #3576 (Closed): Don't offer subtype refits for fifth wheel trucks with 1 trailer (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3576 16:20:18 <Brot6> BANDIT - Revision 128:53feb65017dd: Change: don't offer subtype refits for fifth wheel trucks wit... (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/revisions/53feb65017dd 16:20:18 <Brot6> BANDIT - Feature #3576 (Closed): Don't offer subtype refits for fifth wheel trucks with 1 trailer (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3576#change-9297 16:29:36 <Hirundo> frosch123: looks sane 16:30:17 <frosch123> i hope it does not break everything :p 16:31:27 <Hirundo> In NML, it would be preferable if that flag always applied w/o user intervention 16:31:42 <Hirundo> Since users tend to mess up such things, then complain when it doesn't work 16:31:52 <frosch123> for vehicles carrying a single cargo, it is more useful if it is not set 16:32:20 <frosch123> e.g. armored vehicles 16:32:34 <frosch123> that's why i did not include it in grfv8 :) 16:32:49 <frosch123> nml might set it, if a vehicle is refittable 16:32:59 <frosch123> but it would break compatiblity 16:33:53 <Hirundo> currently I have to tell users to always set the 'cargo_capacity' callback to avoid capacity multiplier mess 16:34:30 * andythenorth ponders 16:34:35 <andythenorth> should I be setting the flag? 16:34:49 <Hirundo> multipliers are 2 for mail/goods, 4 for pax and 1 for others, right? 16:35:02 <Hirundo> or 2 for gold also? 16:35:08 <frosch123> yes, the definition is kind of "capacity is always in tons of coal" 16:35:23 <frosch123> 2 for mail/goods, 4 for pax 16:35:46 <frosch123> i would imagine that industry sets would use other multipliers for other cargos 16:35:53 <frosch123> so i want to fix it on "coal" :) 16:35:59 <andythenorth> multiplier for mail is 2? 16:36:11 <frosch123> depends on the vehicle type :p 16:36:16 * andythenorth thinks not for RVs :P 16:36:17 <Hirundo> e.g. 1/4 or so on FIRS vehicles, right? 16:36:27 <andythenorth> 18/13 16:36:47 <andythenorth> 1.4 for RVs 16:36:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: a rv can transport 2 bags of mail if it can transport 1 ton of coal 16:36:58 <andythenorth> bizarre 16:37:03 <andythenorth> frosch123: that's not true :) 16:37:13 <frosch123> then you used cb 15 16:37:23 <andythenorth> not intentionally :P 16:37:27 <andythenorth> cb36 afaik 16:37:36 <andythenorth> whatever nml uses 16:38:05 <andythenorth> hmm 16:38:07 <Hirundo> From an NML perspective, I'd like if a user could say "apply capacity multipliers" and "don't apply capacity multipliers" 16:38:13 <andythenorth> varies for articulated / non articulated 16:38:20 <Hirundo> With proposed patch, I can do a), but b) not quite 16:38:41 <frosch123> b) would be use cb15 unconditionally 16:38:48 * andythenorth wonders if this is a bug in BANDIT 16:38:56 <andythenorth> but I do nothing with cargo types 16:38:59 <andythenorth> maybe that's the bug 16:39:00 <Hirundo> I'd like to be able to do that w/o callbacks 16:39:16 <frosch123> imo that makes no sense :p 16:39:31 <frosch123> a vehicle is never refittable to the same amount for all cargos 16:39:50 <andythenorth> eddi had a proposal for this 16:39:53 <andythenorth> but he's not here :P 16:40:24 <frosch123> the intention is, that control freaks can use cb15 to set specific capacities for specific cargos, while everyone else can just set the capacity for coal and not care about cargos 16:41:02 <frosch123> i.e. capacity is then controlled by the cargo definition 16:41:04 <andythenorth> frosch123: I should be setting this new flag then? 16:41:17 <andythenorth> currently a lead part of RV consist has mail = 2 x coal 16:41:24 <andythenorth> but trailing parts have mail = 1x coal 16:42:41 <Hirundo> frosch123: Let's say I have basic a vehicle refittable to gold and goods and I'd like to have an equal capacity for both 16:43:28 <Hirundo> IMO that should be possible without using callbacks 16:43:58 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:45:07 <frosch123> if you set the refittable cargos so specific, you can as well use specific callbacks 16:45:40 <frosch123> if you are control freak enough to set two explicit cargos instead of cargos, you must control capacities as well 16:45:42 <Hirundo> or gold and mail, whatever, that'd be bitmask(CC_ARMOURED, CC_MAIL) 16:46:11 <frosch123> if you use cargo classes, you already claim that the cargo defining grf shall define the refiittablity 16:46:19 <frosch123> so, the cargo grf shall also define the capacity 16:47:39 <Hirundo> That's annoying for stuff like pax 16:47:46 <frosch123> i do not understand the intention of giving the same capacity to mail and gold. it seems like the author would not be happy with the multipliers of the default cargos. but then he shall write a cargo grf to change the cargos 16:48:01 <Hirundo> So for a bus, you'd not set that flag 16:48:20 <frosch123> yes, not for a bus 16:48:44 <frosch123> so, the pax multiplier applies to the default capacity 16:48:51 <frosch123> but tourists would still be affected 16:49:15 <Hirundo> Tourists are a bad invention... did I mention that yet ;-) 16:49:58 <andythenorth> capacity should be set by the cargo imho 16:50:01 <frosch123> they are express, so meant for maglev or air cargo :p 16:50:16 <andythenorth> if a vehicle author wants to vary capacity, use cb36 checking cargo label from ctt 16:50:27 *** JVassie_ has quit IRC 16:50:28 <frosch123> andythenorth: s/cb36/cb15/ 16:50:38 <andythenorth> could do maths inline :P 16:50:41 <andythenorth> you should see my code :P 16:50:57 <andythenorth> anyway, the only thing that bothers me is that the multipliers are pot luck :P 16:51:30 <andythenorth> also...I should fix the mail problem with trailing parts in BANDIT, or wait for some upstream fix? 16:51:53 <Hirundo> Currently the 'cargo_capacity' callback in NML is used for both cb36 and cb 15 16:52:08 <Hirundo> So if a user uses the callback, he always gets the exact capacity 16:52:09 <frosch123> andythenorth: i am not aware of any code distinguishing front/trailing parts :p 16:52:25 <Hirundo> If he doesn't capacity multipliers apply 16:52:27 <frosch123> Hirundo: both? what do you mean? 16:53:18 <Hirundo> The callback is internally mapped to both cb36->capacity and cb15 16:53:29 <Hirundo> so both callbacks end up calling the same switch chain 16:55:56 <Hirundo> That'd have to be changed, else your proposal makes no difference (except for ships) 16:56:44 <frosch123> ideally you would be able to return either "15" or "15 * multiplier" 16:57:02 <frosch123> i.e. something like adding a unit to the capacity 16:59:52 <Hirundo> perhaps add some variable that checks (cb == 15) 17:00:01 <Hirundo> or split the callback back into two callbacks 17:01:55 <Hirundo> Still, I'd like to suggest an additional flag 'NO_CAPACITY_MULTIPLIERS' that disables all usage of multipliers w/o resorting to cb 15 17:02:30 <Hirundo> <away for 10 minutes or so 17:02:56 <andythenorth> frosch123: front part uses action o prop, trailing part uses [nml] capacity cb 17:03:11 <andythenorth> I could switch front part to use capacity cb also 17:04:29 <frosch123> i still thing that using cb15 without multipliers should be a rare case 17:04:40 <frosch123> vehicles no using capacity multipleirs is mo the wrong way 17:04:46 <frosch123> which should not be supported 17:06:35 <frosch123> so nml should probably also add two callbacks, like "general_capacity" and "explicit_cargo_capacity" 17:21:04 <Brot6> ogfx-trains: update from r292 to r295 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trains/nightlies/r295 17:22:37 <Brot6> bandit: update from r119 to r128 done (248 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/bandit/nightlies/r128 17:24:37 <Hirundo> Important consequence of flag bit 5 would be, that cap. multipliers are based on coal instead of default cargo 17:24:42 <Brot6> OpenGFX BigGUI - Bug #3577 (New): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3577 17:25:03 <Hirundo> IMO a good thing, as default cargo is messy enough already w/o other things depending on it 17:25:17 <Hirundo> PITA to document, though 17:25:31 <Brot6> dach: update from r39 to r46 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/dach/nightlies/r46 17:28:44 <michi_cc> frosch123: Is it even possible to specify the capacity multiplier for custom cargoes? Source very much looks like hardcoded to me. 17:29:24 <frosch123> michi_cc: that's 50_cargoprop.diff 17:29:59 <michi_cc> Ah, didn't see that. 17:30:16 <frosch123> (10 - 40 were already committed months ago btw) 17:31:05 <Brot6> OpenGFX BigGUI - Revision 6:ab2479cd83bc: Change: Notify user that zoom level 1x has no effect (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-biggui/repository/revisions/ab2479cd83bc 17:31:06 <Brot6> OpenGFX BigGUI - Revision 7:23ded9b21794: Fix: Also add the source file for the 1.5x zoom (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-biggui/repository/revisions/23ded9b21794 17:31:06 <Brot6> OpenGFX BigGUI - Revision 8:cc51998127ed: Fix: Action colours in the wrong places (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-biggui/repository/revisions/cc51998127ed 17:31:07 <Brot6> OpenGFX BigGUI - Revision 9:af337512cea7: Add: 1.5x and 2x zoom for the eight newest OpenTTD GUI ... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-biggui/repository/revisions/af337512cea7 17:31:11 <Brot6> OpenGFX BigGUI - Bug #3577 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (compiler) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3577 17:31:14 <Brot6> OpenGFX BigGUI - Bug #3577: DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3577#change-9298 17:32:02 <Brot6> OpenGFX BigGUI - Bug #3577 (Closed): DevZone compile failed (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3577#change-9298 17:33:30 <Brot6> ogfx-biggui: update from r2 to r9 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-biggui/nightlies/r9 17:51:47 <Hirundo> OK, I've got my debian VM up and running and NML installed 17:52:25 <Hirundo> Now when I run regression test, it works as root, but I get warnings about .hg/hgrc being from an untrusted user (myself) 17:53:20 <Hirundo> when I run regression as a normal user, I get an error in python regarding missing permissions 17:53:44 <Hirundo> it can't create parsetab.py (parser output) 17:53:55 <Hirundo> How do I fix that? 17:54:17 <andythenorth> Hirundo: I had a similar issue when I installed nml 17:54:28 <andythenorth> for some reason, I recall having to fiddle a shebang 17:54:34 <andythenorth> but that might be misremember 17:56:36 <Ammler> Hirundo: never use root 17:57:10 <Hirundo> andythenorth: line 1 of nmlc is #! usr/bin/env python, did you change that? 17:57:30 <andythenorth> don't think so 17:57:33 <andythenorth> let's see 17:57:44 <Ammler> why should he, it would be wrong 17:58:19 <andythenorth> the shebang is set to specific python version, but that's a local thing to me 17:58:23 <Ammler> isn't there a "/"? 17:58:36 <Ammler> #!/usr/bin... 17:58:38 <andythenorth> yes mine has a leading / 17:59:34 <Hirundo> Yes there is, I mistyped 18:00:07 <Ammler> Hirundo: you should checkout and build (not needed) as user 18:00:15 <Yexo> Hirundo: in which directory did you install nml? 18:00:19 <Yexo> did you install it as root? 18:00:24 <Hirundo> ~/nml 18:00:47 <Hirundo> yes I did, NMLTutorial told me :-) 18:02:01 <planetmaker> Hirundo: I have a symlink from ~/ottd/grfdev/nmlc to /usr/local/bin/nmlc 18:02:08 <Yexo> what is the exact error message you get? 18:02:28 <Hirundo> I redownloaded as user, now it works 18:02:58 <Hirundo> at least, regression tests 1-14 have compiled so far 18:03:03 <Yexo> that's basically what the tutorial says, although it's not very clear 18:03:20 <andythenorth> took me ages to install nml :) 18:03:29 <Hirundo> "Also this time you need the terminal as superuser" 18:03:29 <andythenorth> worth it though 18:03:44 <Ammler> planetmaker: on linux, ~/bin is also part of $PATH 18:03:49 <Ammler> so no need to use root 18:03:54 <Yexo> Then change directory to the (extracted) NML source <- you need to have the nml source extracted before you change to superuser 18:04:11 <Brot6> OpenGFX BigGUI - Revision 10:f683f0092597: Add: Window layout change and debugging buttons for 1.... (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-biggui/repository/revisions/f683f0092597 18:04:22 <Yexo> Ammler: not for me 18:05:49 <Ammler> well, then you can still add it ot ~/.bashrc or whatever 18:07:30 *** Hirundo_vm has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 18:08:01 <Hirundo_vm> this should save some real machine<>VM switching :-) 18:11:25 * andythenorth tests something 18:13:18 <andythenorth> do any of the nml devs try the 'clean sheet of paper' nml install occasionally? 18:13:29 <andythenorth> it's the most important thing for making nml easy to use now 18:14:17 <Yexo> I've used it not too long ago: no trouble at all 18:15:28 <andythenorth> I don't have a vm to test it 18:15:41 <andythenorth> and I don't much fancy blitzing whatever it is that causes mine to work :P 18:15:47 <planetmaker> I guess we now have all GUI icons in 2x and 1.5x zoom levels :-) 18:16:03 <andythenorth> Ammler: you should have a 'fresh state' vm build nml every now and then ;) 18:16:58 <Yexo> andythenorth: Ammler already builds suse packages from nml, and the stable release will be packaged in debian too 18:17:13 <Yexo> that will make it really easy to use on various linux platforms 18:17:21 <Yexo> for windows we already have the zip with an exe inside 18:17:59 <andythenorth> hmm 18:18:01 <Ammler> the build environment is every day made from clean env 18:18:18 <andythenorth> I just tried a buildout on a 'clean' OS X user 18:18:22 <andythenorth> not the same as a vm though 18:18:32 <andythenorth> it worked first time, and all tests passed :o 18:18:52 <Yexo> great :) 18:18:52 <andythenorth> but I'm never sure if that's because my system already has awkward deps like PIL 18:18:58 <Yexo> the buildout part was actually untested :p 18:19:01 <andythenorth> afaik buildout is supposed to be a sandbox, but I'm not sure 18:19:09 <Yexo> it probably is, you'll always need to install those dependencies first 18:19:18 <andythenorth> nah, buildout will do it for you 18:19:25 <Yexo> oh, right 18:19:30 <andythenorth> with a set of eggs local to the dir 18:19:37 <andythenorth> so you don't mess with the rest of your system 18:19:45 <Ammler> imo, dependency of buildout is not really nice 18:19:45 <andythenorth> similar idea to virtual-env 18:20:00 <andythenorth> Ammler: it's only not nice because none of us understand it :P 18:20:05 <Ammler> since it could be done with setup.py only 18:20:12 <andythenorth> good luck with that :) 18:20:21 <Ammler> well, you have 2 dependencies 18:20:30 <Ammler> how much luck would that need? 18:20:43 <Ammler> but now, setup.py alone doesn't work 18:20:58 <Ammler> and buildout is too complicated for everyone 18:21:02 <andythenorth> +1 18:21:15 <andythenorth> buildout is complicated for maintainers, of which we have none 18:21:19 <andythenorth> for users it's easy 18:21:31 <Ammler> it is useless for packagers 18:21:36 <andythenorth> +1 18:21:40 <Ammler> but a good setup.py would be nice 18:21:53 <Yexo> setup.py just doesn't install dependencies, but that's something a package manager should do anyway 18:22:20 <andythenorth> will setup.py also create a virtual-env? 18:22:22 <Ammler> but setup.py could define require 18:22:34 <Ammler> then pip or easy_install would do it 18:22:57 <Yexo> I'm not too familiar with either of those, and I'm not going to spent time figuring it out 18:23:21 <andythenorth> will pip also run the tests? 18:23:28 <Ammler> e.g. there are scripts which converts setup.py scripts to rpm specs 18:23:37 <Ammler> which are useless for nml 18:24:34 <andythenorth> pip seems well liked 18:24:45 <andythenorth> it appears to be able to create virtual-env 18:25:13 <andythenorth> here's an interesting blog post about pip vs. other others like buildout etc http://www.b-list.org/weblog/2008/dec/15/pip/ 18:25:14 <Webster> Title: Why I like pip (at www.b-list.org) 18:25:20 <Hirundo_vm> hmm... It seems if I modify nml .py files, the updated files are not used 18:25:32 <andythenorth> make? 18:25:36 <Ammler> pip install nml pil ply should already work 18:25:52 <andythenorth> Ammler: you don't want it to go into a virtual-env? 18:26:11 <andythenorth> most of the python world I know either uses virtual-env or buildout to isolate projects 18:26:14 <Ammler> as linux user, you usually do not need 18:26:16 <andythenorth> otherwise madness happens 18:26:29 <Ammler> as you have binaries available for your distro 18:26:58 <Ammler> but it might make sense for people like you who run different versions 18:27:21 <Ammler> no, clue if such things works on windows at all 18:27:31 <andythenorth> it's pretty common to isolate 18:27:42 <andythenorth> you might need to try out a development version of a package for example 18:27:48 <Yexo> Hirundo_vm: if you installed nml, indeed, that's what happens 18:27:48 <Yexo> the installed files are used 18:27:48 <Yexo> deinstall, create a simlink from a directory in your path to nmlc and it should work 18:27:52 <Ammler> at least windows isn't able to create hard links so it would need to waste space for every fresh environment 18:28:09 <Yexo> or put NMLC=/path/to/nmlc in Makefile.local for the makefile-based newgrf projects 18:28:38 <planetmaker> that's much more tedious, though ;-) 18:28:41 <andythenorth> Ammler: out of interest, do you have a clean vm you could test the buildout on 18:28:46 <andythenorth> with only python 2.6 installed 18:28:48 <andythenorth> no deps 18:29:00 <Ammler> which os? 18:29:01 <Hirundo_vm> where are installed files put? 18:29:24 <Yexo> I'd guess something like /usr/lib/python/sites-packages/ 18:29:42 <Ammler> /usr/local 18:29:53 <andythenorth> Ammler: any OS ;) 18:29:54 <Ammler> else you have already screwed your system :-) 18:30:17 <Yexo> hence the "something like" :p 18:32:06 <Ammler> andythenorth: the devzone does everytime setup a clean environemnt to install nml 18:32:37 <Ammler> you can check the logs, how it is setup, which packages are installed etc. 18:33:07 <Ammler> based on the spec in .devzone/build 18:38:50 <andythenorth> Ammler: how does that build? 18:39:00 <andythenorth> you've packaged it? 18:39:59 <Brot6> OpenGFX BigGUI - Revision 11:575d3bcd50c9: Fix: one row of pixels was missing in the 2x bug icon (planetmaker) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-biggui/repository/revisions/575d3bcd50c9 18:44:14 <andythenorth> hmm 18:44:20 <andythenorth> buildout fails on my wife's laptop 18:46:55 <Yexo> what error messages do you get? 18:47:23 <andythenorth> bootstrap needs a newer setuptools 18:47:44 <andythenorth> if I easy_install -U setuptools, I don't have sufficient permissions 18:47:50 <andythenorth> which is a dead end for most users 18:47:55 <andythenorth> :/ 18:48:22 <andythenorth> installing an app shouldn't require use of sudo 18:48:28 <andythenorth> and many users don't know how to sudo 18:50:14 <andythenorth> for example...if you don't know your wife's password, in this case :P 18:50:41 <Yexo> but that's quite unrelated to nml 18:51:08 <andythenorth> indeed 18:51:22 <andythenorth> but it's an out-of-the-box issue for new users 18:51:56 <Yexo> majority of users will use windows, and they have a zip with an exe inside that "just works" 18:52:58 <andythenorth> \o/ 18:56:16 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1790:5ccc2602ac20: Fix #3450: Add NML output for replacenew-block (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/5ccc2602ac20 18:56:16 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Bug #3450 (Closed): nml output for replacenew (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3450#change-9299 18:56:16 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1791:42938761281f: Add: regression test for replacenew-block (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/42938761281f 18:58:26 <Hirundo_vm> Last commit was 26 aug, acc. to log 19:06:22 <planetmaker> ogfx+biggui is a big regression test for that ;-) 19:09:37 <Hirundo> I used the one-way roads, that's only 6 sprites 19:12:10 <andythenorth> ok 19:12:12 <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 26:149f7b72071c: Add: parameter for if script should allow loading older vers... (Zuu) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial/repository/revisions/149f7b72071c 19:12:12 <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 27:a853712b7232: Add: Script to update GS version reference in the scenario t... (Zuu) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial/repository/revisions/a853712b7232 19:12:27 <andythenorth> I found my wife's password, found the bootstrap fails with python 2.5 19:12:32 <andythenorth> installed python 2.6 19:12:41 <andythenorth> bootstrap is fine, but there's no gcc on the box :P 19:12:46 <andythenorth> so PIL won't build 19:14:47 <andythenorth> no solution to that one 19:15:28 * andythenorth blitzes PIL from his own system to see what happens 19:18:02 <andythenorth> bad 19:18:44 <Zuu> sorry planetmaker I worte a python script instead of making a Makefile :-) 19:19:18 <planetmaker> hm? 19:19:18 <Zuu> You even need to edit it manually to set your own path to openttd(.exe) before using it. 19:19:29 <Zuu> @r27 of the turorial 19:19:32 <planetmaker> ah 19:20:04 <planetmaker> Oh, I don't mind. 19:20:15 <planetmaker> Make is also just means to chain commands ;-) 19:21:42 <planetmaker> and important is that it works 19:21:55 <Zuu> indeed 19:22:05 <planetmaker> but granted, a hardcoded path to openttd is... bad ;-) 19:22:11 <andythenorth> hmm 19:22:21 <andythenorth> PIL 1.1.7 throws epic amount of build errors 19:22:33 <Zuu> though, I don't think that many people will need it unless they plan to do their own relaess :-) 19:23:00 <Zuu> /releass/releases/ 19:23:05 <planetmaker> uh. it hardcodes the .exe :-( 19:23:20 <planetmaker> well, indeed 19:23:56 <Zuu> And it still needs some glue on the OpenTTD side that doesn't yet exist. :-) 19:24:05 <Zuu> (namely save_scenario) 19:25:14 <andythenorth> ho 19:25:16 <andythenorth> I broke ply 19:30:36 <andythenorth> ok 19:30:43 <andythenorth> so I'm now a good test case for installing nml 19:30:48 <andythenorth> as I have broken it 19:30:51 <andythenorth> and can't fix it 19:31:38 <andythenorth> ImportError: No module named ply.lex 19:33:50 <andythenorth> so.. 19:33:57 <andythenorth> what do I do? 19:37:36 <andythenorth> nvm 19:37:39 <andythenorth> installed the deps manually 19:37:52 <andythenorth> note: macports does *not* work for these deps 19:37:58 <andythenorth> despite reporting they installed ok 19:45:52 <andythenorth> ok 19:45:59 <andythenorth> so for OS X: 19:46:05 <andythenorth> > python 2.6.x 19:46:10 <andythenorth> > setuptools 19:46:38 <andythenorth> > manually install PIL following build instructions in PIL readme 19:47:06 <andythenorth> > manually install ply-lex, using python setup.py install 19:47:19 <andythenorth> > make nml 19:47:29 <andythenorth> > cd /opt/local/bin 19:47:49 <andythenorth> > ln -s PATH-TO-NML/nmlc nmlc 19:49:06 <andythenorth> worth a wiki note? 19:51:44 <Brot6> OpenGFX - Bug #3578 (New): Font update (PaulC) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3578 19:53:15 <Hirundo> To what extent are the recommendations stated here (http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Cargos#CargoClasses_.2816.29) actually used in practice? 19:53:50 <andythenorth> currently? 19:53:54 <andythenorth> or in an ideal world? 19:54:08 <Hirundo> currently 19:54:29 <andythenorth> we recently reworked FIRS cargos in light of those 19:54:29 <Hirundo> ideal worlds exist only in the imagination and even those are often flawed 19:54:39 <andythenorth> we found we couldn't comply with them in all cases 19:55:03 <Hirundo> for hysterical raisins? 19:55:24 <andythenorth> yup 19:55:40 <andythenorth> or because we couldn't agree with them...or each other :) 19:55:49 <andythenorth> planetmaker: ^^^ your opinion? 20:26:16 <Brot6> Japanese Trains - Revision 51:72c2f4337d25: Fix some more trains weights (Toni) (dandan) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/jptrains/repository/revisions/72c2f4337d25 20:28:02 <Brot6> Japanese Trains Addon - Revision 11:f7effa12467c: Fix some more trains weights (Toni) (dandan) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/jptrainsadd/repository/revisions/f7effa12467c 20:37:41 <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 28:1cfcb0fb7057: Add: tutorial scenario (Zuu) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial/repository/revisions/1cfcb0fb7057 20:37:41 <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 29:1b0fb2b49072: Add: Progress tutorial when the user adds an goto station or... (Zuu) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial/repository/revisions/1b0fb2b49072 20:37:41 <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 30:2cbd6513b4a3: Change: Be more specific about the station window (Zuu) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial/repository/revisions/2cbd6513b4a3 20:37:42 <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 31:ab273277ac77: A change to STR_AIRPLANES_1_3_5_ORDERS was lost when the cha... (Zuu) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial/repository/revisions/ab273277ac77 21:12:46 <Hirundo_vm> NowI want so symlink nmlc so I can use it from any directory 21:12:58 <Hirundo_vm> I should place the symplink in /usr/local/bin, right? 21:13:08 <frosch123> mine are there :) 21:13:43 <Hirundo_vm> Now it won't let me do so, should I log in as root to fix that (which, I was told, is bad) ? 21:14:16 <planetmaker> Hirundo_vm: don't login as root. Use sudo 21:14:27 <Hirundo_vm> sudo won't let me 21:14:33 <planetmaker> hu? 21:14:51 <planetmaker> you might need to allow yourself to use sudo 21:15:03 <Hirundo_vm> " not in the sudoers file" 21:15:10 <Hirundo_vm> now how do I do that? 21:15:19 * Hirundo_vm feels dumb 21:15:21 <planetmaker> yeah. then you need to allow yourself to access sudo for that. How... hm.. 21:15:48 <Hirundo_vm> "sudo allow-access sudo" sounds like catch-22 to me :-) 21:16:19 <planetmaker> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/allow-a-normal-user-to-run-commands-as-root.html <-- does that help? 21:16:20 <Webster> Title: Allow A Normal User To Run Commands As root Under Linux / UNIX Operating Systems (at www.cyberciti.biz) 21:16:28 <planetmaker> and yes, you might need to login as root at least once ;-) 21:19:06 <^Spike^> root is where the real men are separated from the boys ;) 21:19:10 <^Spike^> the boys use sudo ;) 21:21:04 <andythenorth> Hirundo: installing nml made me feel dumb too 21:21:37 * andythenorth wonders if the buildout should be removed 21:21:39 <andythenorth> it doesn't work 21:22:49 <andythenorth> I think it's failing to call step for setup.py install 21:23:19 <Hirundo_vm> worked :-) 21:24:20 <Hirundo_vm> Thanks to the 'vi in 10 minutes' tutorial for telling me how to save and close a file ;-) 21:24:44 <andythenorth> hmm 21:24:52 * andythenorth just tried following the instructions in nml readme 21:25:05 <andythenorth> "NML uses buildout for packaging / installation. To install NML run: 21:25:05 <andythenorth> python setup.py install" 21:25:14 <andythenorth> that's not related to buildout 21:25:27 <andythenorth> and that also fails on the mac 21:27:06 <andythenorth> does anyone know if toni babeloni got his nml working? 21:27:17 <Hirundo_vm> Is there any reason to keep the xor refit-mask property? 21:27:30 <andythenorth> in nml? 21:27:39 <Hirundo_vm> Except hysterical reasons 21:27:40 <andythenorth> I'd recommend binning it 21:27:41 <Hirundo_vm> andythenorth: yes 21:27:43 <andythenorth> it sucks 21:27:53 <andythenorth> it's flawed by design 21:28:30 <andythenorth> a remarkably bad piece of design with a crippling logical flaw 21:28:35 <andythenorth> but we all do that :) 21:29:29 <Hirundo_vm> Probably it needs some grace period to allow grf authors to switch over 21:30:37 <planetmaker> nml 0.3 might deprecate it, 0.4 might remove it ;-) 21:32:28 <Rubidium> 0.3 is still "trunk" right? 21:32:40 <Rubidium> so just add the deprecation to 0.2.x and bin it even earlier ;) 21:32:41 * andythenorth reads about PILlow 21:32:41 <andythenorth> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Pillow#id2 21:32:42 <Webster> Title: Pillow 1.7.6 : Python Package Index (at pypi.python.org) 21:34:49 <Ammler> Hirundo_vm: you could symlink to ~/bin which doesn't need root 21:34:55 <Hirundo_vm> climate variable is useless now right? Climate cheat got banned, so we can read the value via action6/D 21:35:18 <planetmaker> yes, Rubidium. Feasible 21:35:46 <Ammler> you might need to add ~/bin to your $PATH 21:35:50 <Hirundo_vm> Ammler: My system didn't come with a ~/bin, though I could add that 21:35:53 <Brot6> BANDIT - Feature #3579 (New): CMS needs to insert trailer graphics files (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3579 21:36:12 <^Spike^> you can create that folder freely 21:36:25 <^Spike^> just need to log out and back in again to get it active if i'm right 21:37:12 <Ammler> well, if there is no ~/bin, it isn't part of $PATH either, most probably 21:37:31 <Hirundo_vm> it's indeed not 21:37:40 <Hirundo_vm> though the discussion is moot now 21:37:41 <Ammler> so you need to add that via .bashrc or however you intialize your shell 21:39:10 <Ammler> not using root does not mean using sudo :-P 21:39:26 <Hirundo_vm> I don't know how my shell is initialized 21:39:47 <andythenorth> me neither 21:39:52 <Ammler> check your dotfiles 21:39:59 <andythenorth> how can we make this better? 21:40:08 <Ammler> andythenorth: this is for devs only, anyway 21:40:20 <andythenorth> installing nml is for devs only? 21:40:25 <Brot6> BANDIT - Feature #3580 (New): CMS needs to insert truck and trailer lengths (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3580 21:40:25 <Ammler> this way, yes 21:40:38 <Ammler> others use the installer 21:40:41 <Hirundo_vm> This has not much to do with installing nml 21:40:52 <Ammler> exactly 21:40:52 <andythenorth> which installer? 21:41:08 <Ammler> setup.py or whatever :-) 21:41:12 * andythenorth contemplates breaking nml again to test the installer 21:41:49 <Ammler> symlinking to the repo is that you can use the script directly from repo 21:41:52 <Hirundo_vm> Basically I needed a linux VM to work on NML as cygwin sucks monkey testicles, but I suck monkey testicles at using linux 21:42:58 <planetmaker> mingw maybe? 21:43:01 <andythenorth> we should remove the buildout 21:43:05 <andythenorth> it's broken and adds cruft 21:43:12 <Hirundo_vm> I have grown up with buttons to click on instead of commands to type, nothing can fix that 21:43:32 <planetmaker> that surprises me a bit to hear, Hirundo_vm :-) 21:43:47 <Rubidium> ghehe... 21:43:47 <andythenorth> the installer is setup.py? 21:43:51 <Ammler> sorry, but who the hell told you to start using linux with debian? 21:44:00 <Rubidium> guess I'm then just old enough and started young enough with computers 21:44:19 <Hirundo_vm> Ammler: I'm surprised at how well it works actually 21:44:22 <Rubidium> though back when I started with Linux it was even more a hell to start with 21:44:34 <Hirundo_vm> I just dug up some tutorial and worked through it 21:44:53 <andythenorth> anyone mind if I remove the buildout and commit it? 21:45:07 <Ammler> andythenorth: it isn't just that file 21:45:09 <Hirundo_vm> Actually when I take the time to study cli stuff, I can work with itquite well, hg for example 21:45:16 <Ammler> afaik, there is also other parts related to it 21:45:20 <andythenorth> Ammler: I know which files to remove 21:46:45 <andythenorth> bootstrap.py buildout.cfg docs/zpl-2.1.txt 21:46:54 <andythenorth> and update readme to remove (incorrect) references to buildout 21:47:16 <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 32:d0889c0b673d: Add: Detect if OpenTTD is too old (Zuu) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial/repository/revisions/d0889c0b673d 21:47:16 <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 33:61f1fdbb5adc: Add: Script to make tar file (Zuu) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial/repository/revisions/61f1fdbb5adc 21:47:16 <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 34:0475c584077d: Version 6 (Zuu) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial/repository/revisions/0475c584077d 21:47:17 <Ammler> maybe add pil and ply as requires to setup.py 21:47:29 <andythenorth> that won't work 21:47:36 <andythenorth> PIL is not setuptools compatible 21:47:46 <andythenorth> PIL is barely-anything compatible 21:47:51 <Ammler> hmm, true 21:48:06 <andythenorth> if we want to automate installing the deps, we need buildout or pil 21:48:11 <andythenorth> pil / pip /s 21:48:18 <andythenorth> pip seems more widely liked 21:48:36 <Ammler> yes, pip reads setup.py 21:48:39 <andythenorth> if all the deps are python there is no gain from buildout 21:48:52 <Ammler> at least, it could alert, if there is no pil 21:50:25 <andythenorth> I really wanted to remove the need to screw your system 21:50:35 <andythenorth> pip coud do that with a virtual-env 21:50:44 <andythenorth> but virtual-env is yet one more dependency 21:51:22 <Ammler> andythenorth: the issue with pil is that it needs building 21:51:30 <Ammler> with gcc and such stuff 21:51:31 <andythenorth> buildout builds it 21:51:40 <andythenorth> yes it needs gcc as I found earlier 21:51:45 <Ammler> it's not a simply python script 21:51:51 <andythenorth> gcc is a significant dependency 21:52:09 <Ammler> so you can't expect someone able to build it 21:52:17 <Ammler> people need to have it on their system already 21:52:38 <andythenorth> PIL or gcc? 21:52:43 <Ammler> PIL 21:53:11 <andythenorth> I can't see a way around that no 21:53:18 <andythenorth> it's annoying though 21:53:39 <Ammler> well, it should not be a issue of nml 21:53:43 <Ammler> nml simply requires it 21:55:06 <andythenorth> it's an issue for adoption of nml 21:56:16 * andythenorth wonders if the buildout works, but has path issues 21:56:20 <Ammler> for linux, installing nml is no issue 21:56:26 <andythenorth> that's lovely 21:56:32 <andythenorth> let's all switch to linux :P 21:56:40 <Ammler> maybe for osx, it would be an idea to use maxports or how that is called 21:56:48 <andythenorth> macports fails for this case 21:57:04 <andythenorth> it doesn't install ply-lex or pil correctly 21:57:06 <andythenorth> I tested 21:57:10 <Ammler> and windows use the exe from nightlies 21:59:53 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Revision 1792:901b872dfd98: Cleanup: Remove now-redundant climate action2 ... (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/revisions/901b872dfd98 22:00:09 <Ammler> hmm, what about building e mac exe too? 22:00:36 <Ammler> at least including the binary for pil? 22:02:07 <Ammler> or couldn't the openttd compile farm build nml? 22:08:58 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest187 22:08:59 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:09:01 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 22:09:12 <Hirundo_vm> planetmaker: Yexo: Do you agree with deprecating the xor refit mask? And removing it in a month or so 22:09:17 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:09:27 *** Guest187 has quit IRC 22:09:29 <andythenorth> does the .exe eliminate all deps? 22:09:54 <planetmaker> I'd not be that fast with it, Hirundo_vm 22:09:57 <planetmaker> but yes 22:10:00 * andythenorth reads docs for answer 22:10:26 <andythenorth> so windows is sorted 22:10:40 <andythenorth> linux is trivial 22:10:40 <andythenorth> just OS X is problematic 22:10:44 <andythenorth> it seems 22:11:19 <Hirundo_vm> planetmaker: For now, I just wanted to add a generic.print_warning upon usage 22:12:06 <planetmaker> yes, that's fine with me. But... Yexo will need to agree, too :-) 22:12:14 <andythenorth> do we have OS X users for nml? 22:14:21 <Hirundo_vm> Do we have OS X users for openttd? 22:14:55 <andythenorth> yes 22:15:54 <Rubidium> hmm... andy isn't using OSX anymore? 22:16:32 * andythenorth wonders if OS X users should just buy Crossover and use the nmlc.exe 22:16:48 <andythenorth> Crossover is a packaged Wine 22:16:48 <Rubidium> might be better for OpenTTD as well 22:17:06 <andythenorth> I tested OpenTTD with it when OS X support was deprecated 22:17:23 <andythenorth> it works adequately. It noticeably lags only occasionally 22:17:32 <andythenorth> CPU use is higher than for the OS X binary 22:17:49 <andythenorth> I used crossover for grfcodec and renum for a long time 22:17:50 <Rubidium> well... OS X support lags noticeably ;) 22:18:39 <andythenorth> crossover is £26 22:18:39 <andythenorth> they should just buy that and use the .exe 22:18:52 <andythenorth> the alternative is: 22:19:02 <andythenorth> - install Apple Developer Tools (or build your own gcc) 22:19:06 <andythenorth> - install python 22:19:09 <andythenorth> - install PIL 22:19:13 <andythenorth> - install ply 22:19:25 <andythenorth> - make a symbolic link 22:19:37 <andythenorth> all the time typing 'sudo' which you are conditioned to never do 22:19:42 <andythenorth> it's just not going to work 22:21:00 <Rubidium> that's pretty easy isn't it? 22:21:28 <andythenorth> it is if I write down all the instructions in steps 22:21:34 <Rubidium> just get genius from the app(le) store 22:25:11 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #3581 (New): Consider removing buildout (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3581 22:28:57 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #3582 (New): Write instructions for installing on OS X (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3582 22:31:52 *** andythenorth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 22:32:13 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #3581: Consider removing buildout (andythenorth) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3581#change-9301 22:32:43 <Brot6> Tutorial - Revision 35:765cb2c0d384: Update: string updates by Pingaware (Zuu) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/gs-tutorial/repository/revisions/765cb2c0d384 22:33:01 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:38:43 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:42:45 <Brot6> NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #3583 (New): deprecate / remove refittable_cargo_types (Hirundo) @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3583 22:43:11 <Hirundo> Close inspection of openttd code taught me that 'just' emitting a warning has issues 22:43:43 <Hirundo> Leaving properties unset can cause bizarre issues in some cases, this is one of them (see #3583) 22:43:43 <Brot6> Hirundo: #3583 is http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/show/3583 "NewGRF Meta Language - Feature #3583: deprecate / remove refittable_cargo_types - #openttdcoop Development Zone" 22:44:27 *** JVassie has quit IRC 22:49:36 *** Hirundo_vm has quit IRC 22:50:50 *** JVassie has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:55:57 *** JVassie_ has quit IRC 22:59:01 *** ODM has quit IRC 23:14:24 *** JVassie has quit IRC 23:29:34 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 23:29:55 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 23:29:57 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 23:36:13 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 23:57:04 *** Zuu has quit IRC