Log for #openttd on 5th July 2006:
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00:25:02  <k-man_> how come path based signaling isn't in openttd?
00:25:07  <k-man_> (according to the wiki)
00:25:27  <Sacro> k-man_: because some people had...issues with it
00:25:33  <k-man_> oh
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00:25:35  <k-man_> ok
00:25:44  <Sacro> i loved it, still use it
00:26:27  <k-man_> sacro, what were the issues? and is it likely to be fixed any time soon?
00:26:38  <k-man_> also, whats thew new AI and is it safe to use it?
00:26:56  <Sacro> k-man_: its quite easy to create huge train crashes with it
00:27:10  <Sacro> usully just by people editing a live junction
00:27:17  <k-man_> right
00:27:19  <Sacro> the new AI is safe to use, however its pants
00:27:28  <k-man_> its pants?
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00:28:30  <k-man_> also, is there a feature to automaticaly renew loco's when they reach their age limit?
00:28:41  <k-man_> as opposed to replacing them with new models?
00:30:23  <Frostregen> yes, in patches->vehicles
00:30:30  <k-man_> oh
00:30:30  <k-man_> ok
00:30:35  <k-man_> couldn't find it
00:30:42  <k-man_> ill look again tonight
00:31:48  <Frostregen> it IS tonight ;)
00:32:10  <Sacro> Frostregen: its tommorow morning here
00:32:22  <Frostregen> [02:34:13] <Sacro> Frostregen: its tommorow morning here
00:32:46  <Sacro> [01:35] <Frostregen> [02:34:13] <Sacro> Frostregen: its tommorow morning here
00:33:11  <Sacro> its an hour ago here :P
00:33:19  <Frostregen> lucky you
00:33:26  <Sacro> heh
00:34:26  <Sacro> my mate downloaded and burnt ubuntu, and i havent heard from him im 15 mins...
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03:19:54  <Stixsmaster> hey all i was told by sumone in forums that the nightly version of OTTD is more stable and better and i got it and now i can use more sprites which is nice
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04:15:43  <Stixsmaster> hey all
04:16:07  <lws1984> howdy
04:16:09  <Stixsmaster> anyone here play the latest nightly version of OTTD online?
04:16:38  <Frostregen> look at
04:17:52  <Stixsmaster> i know how to play it online its just that when i search for a server to join there are none really that use a the latest nightly version
04:18:23  <Frostregen> this is one server, which is up to date with nightlys
04:19:32  <Stixsmaster> cool do you play on it a lot?
04:19:38  <Frostregen> yes
04:20:01  <Frostregen> it uses a bunch of newGrfs
04:20:23  <Frostregen> (new trains, stations, etc..)
04:20:39  <Frostregen> and good patch settings ;)
04:20:44  <Stixsmaster> cool
04:21:36  <Stixsmaster> im gunna join it soon as soon as i get the necessary grfs and installed
04:21:57  <Frostregen> there's a link to a zipfile on the page
04:22:05  <Frostregen> easiest way to get them all
04:22:38  <Frostregen> even the newgrf section you may just copy&paste into your cfg
04:23:29  <Stixsmaster> yea i know
04:23:34  <Frostregen> k ;)
04:24:48  <Stixsmaster> ok im going to join now
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04:24:56  <Frostregen> hf ;)
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06:58:03  <CIA-3> miham * r5461 /trunk/lang/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
06:58:03  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-07-05 08:57:43
06:58:03  <CIA-3> afrikaans - 79 fixed by TrueTenacity (79)
06:58:03  <CIA-3> bulgarian - 317 fixed, 13 changed by kokobongo (10), groupsky (320)
06:58:03  <CIA-3> finnish - 48 changed by lauri.kajan (48)
06:58:59  <MiHaMiX> Total I18N status: 95% - 3427 bad strings out of 73528 strings
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07:03:45  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: :)
07:04:55  <peter1138> hello
07:04:56  <peter1138> and bye
07:05:46  <MiHaMiX> ? :)
07:05:50  <MiHaMiX> going to work?
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08:45:16  <TL|Away> tokai: yeah, morphos compiled again :)
08:45:34  <TL|Away> just 5 days it didn't, not bad, not bad at all :)
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09:16:55  <peter1138> nobody uses it anyway ;)
09:24:05  <tokai> peter1138: in % system user rarte vs. OpenTTD user rate MorphOS beats a sh*t out of all other OSes. So be careful with your jokes ;)
09:24:25  <peter1138> joke?
09:24:48  <tokai> sure.
09:25:15  <tokai> peter1138: or do u really believe noone is usng the morphos version besides me?
09:25:54  <peter1138> no
09:25:58  <peter1138> there's probably one other
09:26:46  <tokai> sigh.. do u really think 2 ppl are crazy enough to start downloading openttd again and again to fake the download stats? :)
09:26:59  <TL|Away> tokai: now you mention it: yes :p
09:27:32  <TL|Away> 271 downloads
09:27:33  <TL|Away> lol
09:27:50  <TL|Away> os2 is even downloaded 425 times :o :o
09:27:55  <TL|Away> OSX 4000 times
09:27:56  <TL|Away> amazing :p
09:28:09  <tokai> osx has >9million user base
09:28:17  <tokai> morphos has around 2000 user
09:28:19  <TL|Away> (Against the 80000 who downloaded the windows version :p)
09:28:56  <tokai> i have no idea how many os2 users are out there... 300-4000 maybe?
09:29:01  <tokai> +0
09:29:04  <peter1138> 2
09:29:05  <TL|Away> less and less :p
09:29:07  <peter1138> osrudge
09:29:09  <peter1138> er
09:29:10  <peter1138> orudge
09:29:11  <peter1138> and
09:29:13  <peter1138> orudge somewhere else
09:29:24  <TL|Away> orudge has just a emulator running for it I believe :p
09:29:31  <TL|Away> he got the system from some freak to port it :)
09:30:04  <hylje> :o
09:30:14  <tokai> anyway.. such freak systems are more fun than any of the big OSes :)
09:30:30  <TL|Away> yeah, more bugs :
09:30:30  <TL|Away> p
09:30:36  <TL|Away> less support :)
09:30:55  <peter1138> crappy old c compilers
09:30:56  <tokai> more bugs?
09:30:59  <hylje> port ottd to symbian already
09:31:01  <tokai> TL|Away: i doubth that :)
09:31:01  <peter1138> (as opposed to crappy new c compilers)
09:31:25  <tokai> peter1138: gcc4 can't even compile quake properly for x86 ;)
09:31:36  <tokai> now tell me something about crap compilers :)
09:31:40  <hylje> :>
09:31:46  <TL|Away> compilers, or source code?
09:32:07  <tokai> it creates broken machine code
09:32:21  <TL|Away> haha
09:33:20  <tokai> with gcc 2.95.x you know at least where the bugs are and how u can workaround them in your source. with new gccs is playing lottery :)
09:36:00  <TL|Away> I believe that is the best argument to tell people to use 2.95 and not 4.0... progress is bad! And any bugs coming with it, it BAD! Don't solve them, use the old stuff :p
09:36:00  <TL|Away> haha
09:36:06  <TL|Away> reminds me of my ISP: they have 2 kinds of internet
09:36:12  <TL|Away> one via ultra-fast university connection
09:36:16  <TL|Away> and one ADSL alike of their own
09:36:23  <TL|Away> now the university connection is failing the past 6 months
09:36:26  <TL|Away> packetloss of 30%
09:36:32  <TL|Away> so now they are telling people to switch to their own
09:36:39  <TL|Away> almost sounds like the perfect marketing ;)
09:36:56  <peter1138> heh
09:37:31  <TL|Away> so never solve your problems, always switch to the thing you know works ;)
09:37:33  <peter1138> indeed
09:37:38  <TL|Away> I guess that is why people still use Win3.11 :)
09:37:38  <peter1138> bugs should not be worked around
09:37:41  <peter1138> they should be solved
09:39:04  <tokai> peter1138: well.. i heard gcc maintainers are sometimes a bit weird and don't accept patches to go in even if they solve problems, so f.ex. many patches by apple are still not in the main gcc tree.
09:39:20  <TL|Away> tokai: yes, apple always complains about that
09:39:25  <TL|Away> did you ever opened a patch from apple?
09:39:32  <TL|Away> a) rarely follows the coding guidelines
09:39:37  <TL|Away> b) mostly introduces tricky code
09:39:43  <TL|Away> c) mostly makes possible bugs on other places
09:39:46  <TL|Away> no wonder they are mostly refused
09:40:32  <tokai> dunno, but their ppc gcc works better than a main tree ppc gcc obviously.
09:40:42  <TL|Away> not that strange :P
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09:40:47  <TL|Away> compare the 2 versions and be amazed
09:40:58  <TL|Away> the apple gcc can't compile i386 x86 code for example
09:41:00  <TL|Away> totally broken
09:41:27  <TL|Away> I believe the story was, Apple tried 3 or 4 patches sending to GCC (big ones)
09:41:29  <TL|Away> they got refused
09:41:35  <TL|Away> so they said: fuck GCC, we start our own version
09:41:42  <TL|Away> and fuck all other versions and options, we just do what we need
09:41:45  <TL|Away> and break most of the other code
09:41:52  <tokai> i probably would do the same:)
09:41:53  <TL|Away> they did notice that problem while adding x86
09:42:03  <TL|Away> yeah, me 2, but that is besides the point :p
09:42:12  <TL|Away> now we have official GCC with bad PPC and darwin8 support
09:42:23  <TL|Away> and now we have apple GCC, with bad anything besides those 2 support :p
09:43:21  <hylje> :P
09:44:13  <TL|Away> (that in fact is the reason I hate branching like this)
09:47:39  <peter1138> apple liked to send massive changes with seeming irrelevant changes
09:47:47  <peter1138> like some patches for ottd ;p
09:48:47  <hylje> :>
09:51:44  <tokai> <- can someone test this patch if it works for other systems?
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10:19:59  <black_Nightmare> any of you know what the command was to tell a server to recount clients?
10:21:12  <hylje> rm -rf /etc/
10:21:45  <black_Nightmare> doesn't work..server still stays paused :p .. heh
10:21:49  * black_Nightmare chuckles
10:22:21  <Sacro> recount_clients?
10:22:25  <Prof_Frink> Sorry, it's rm -rf /usr/
10:22:33  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: PEBCAK?
10:22:51  <Sacro> chmod 666 `which chmod`
10:22:57  * black_Nightmare whacks prof to quit the linux commands and give me the real openttd command
10:22:59  <black_Nightmare> :p
10:23:13  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: there isnt one, its brianettas autopilot i think
10:23:19  <black_Nightmare> sacro...akalam's server seem to be paused..I was just checking if it was counting clients right
10:23:19  <hylje> chmod -x chmod
10:23:23  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: have you tried "list_cmds"
10:23:25  <black_Nightmare> sacro...oh .. :-/
10:23:28  <black_Nightmare> hmm let me see
10:23:55  <Sacro> errm, i seem to be alone in #tycoon
10:24:06  <black_Nightmare> hm 'unpause' is only for the server owner to use
10:24:12  <Sacro> yep
10:24:12  <black_Nightmare> guess I'll just have to wait for akalam
10:24:21  <Sacro> log off and log back in]
10:24:58  <black_Nightmare> hmm..didn't think of moment
10:25:38  <black_Nightmare> says 'game unpaused (client connected)' but its still paused
10:25:43  <black_Nightmare> he must have done that
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10:29:30  <Sacro> hmm
10:29:38  <hylje> YARRR
10:29:58  <hylje> black_Nightmare: yeah if game is paused when you join it wont unpause
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10:42:46  <Sacro> hmm, what server OS, centos 4.3, or FC5
10:42:58  <hylje> gentoo
10:43:26  <Sacro> hylje: nooo
10:43:30  <Sacro> ubuntu :P
10:44:42  <hylje> debian
10:45:57  *** mode/#openttd [+o TL|Away] by ChanServ
10:46:03  <TL|Away> Let's make this clear: shut up you 2
10:46:05  <TL|Away> k?
10:46:06  <TL|Away> :p
10:49:00  <hylje> :<
10:49:05  <Sacro> slak!
10:49:15  <TL|Away> good, we have an understanding :)
10:49:21  *** mode/#openttd [-o TL|Away] by ChanServ
10:49:46  <Sacro> ah, best get ready to go out :( bbl
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10:49:48  * black_Nightmare would rather go bsd if it wasn't windows ;)
10:56:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> am i starting to imagine things or did sacro just say he is leaving the house? ;)
10:56:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> s/is/was
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10:57:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> english is a strange language...
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11:04:17  <Brianetta> hngrargh
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11:11:33  <ammler> Hallo
11:12:00  <roboman> hello
11:12:10  <ammler> Ich habe nun endlich openttd auch auf meiner Linuxkiste compiliert
11:12:22  <ammler> Sorry, englich
11:12:41  <ammler> I have already installed openttd on my linuxbox
11:12:55  <ln-> that wasn't the same sentence
11:13:26  <hapo> well, but the main point got delivered anyway :)
11:13:32  <hylje> :D
11:13:38  <hylje> this point delivers
11:13:55  <ammler> Did take the last trunk, my version is r5461
11:14:19  <ammler> is it possible to give a lover version or have I to install this seperatly
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11:15:17  <ammler> I like to play multiplayer
11:15:38  <hylje> you have to install it separately
11:16:00  <ammler> ok, thx
11:16:08  <hylje> its simple enough tho
11:16:13  <hylje> since ottd can be self-contained
11:16:42  <ammler> self-contained?
11:17:47  <hylje> not modifying things outside its directory
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12:32:11  <black_Nightmare> hey sacro :p ... you really need to upgrade your four very old ED1 2-6-2T's :))
12:32:23  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: bah :P
12:32:40  <roboman> on where
12:33:00  <black_Nightmare>'s a hint..your oil station is barely holding average 50% rating .. the oilwell is doing 477000 litres now
12:33:05  <black_Nightmare> :p
12:33:21  <Sacro> :O
12:33:23  <black_Nightmare> roboman....get the nightly build and look on the online server..there's one that isn't brianetta's..thats the one :p
12:33:34  <black_Nightmare> either upgrade it or someone else will ;)
12:34:00  <Sacro> im kinda at work
12:34:05  <black_Nightmare> fair enough
12:34:33  <Brianetta> Akalamanaia's trpoical server
12:34:41  <peter1138> hmm
12:34:49  <peter1138> anyone know how to install cygwin without a network connection?
12:35:01  <hylje> no
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12:39:27  <Sacro> peter1138: yep, just download the files and do "install from local directory"
12:40:03  <Sacro> or there is the major point that they are only compressed, just unzip/tar/bzip2/gzip/whatever and run any scripts they have
12:41:52  <peter1138> "download the files"
12:41:52  <peter1138> which?
12:41:57  <peter1138> they're massive...
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12:43:39  <Sacro> peter1138: depends what you want
12:43:43  <Sacro> get ubuntu and vmware
12:43:58  <peter1138> er... what?
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12:50:59  <Sacro> peter1138: im not sure how the dependancy tracking works
12:54:57  <roboman> gnight
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12:56:09  <peter1138> fairly sure ubuntu and vmware isn't a solution :P
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13:04:00  <Sacro> peter1138: if linux isnt the solution, your asking the wrong question
13:04:44  <peter1138> riiight
13:04:49  <Sacro> :)
13:05:09  <peter1138> obviously you're not in the real world
13:05:17  <peter1138> where you can't just change the OS of a running system on a whim
13:05:58  <Sacro> im attempting to do that now :)
13:06:01  <Sacro> what are you wanting to do?
13:06:35  <peter1138> i only want rsync, heh
13:06:49  <Sacro> is there not a win32 version?
13:06:50  <peter1138> (it has a network connection, but no internet connectivity
13:06:52  <peter1138> )
13:06:54  <peter1138> yes, via cygwin
13:07:14  <Sacro> right, well surely you just need the exe, and all associated libraries
13:07:45  <Sacro> according to ldd `which rsync` is only needs glidbc
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13:10:30  <peter1138> hmm
13:11:11  <Sacro> can i connect to 2 access points at once for double the speed?
13:11:51  <Noldo> with 2 cards maybe
13:12:17  <SpComb> hmm
13:12:30  <SpComb> has anyone written PHP code for querying OpenTTD servers?
13:12:31  <Sacro> Noldo: no, i only have the one
13:12:54  <Sacro> though i could plug eth0 into our router, and use wlan0 for Subway's wireless
13:13:06  <SpComb> Sacro: your WLAN card uses a specifc frequency range, and that frequency range is only so wide and so fast
13:13:15  <Sacro> SpComb: i know
13:13:30  <SpComb> then you shouldn't have asked that question :)
13:13:36  <MiHaMiX> SpComb: someone must have, since I've seen pages offering such data
13:14:08  <SpComb> I was just considering writeing some nice class for it, so I could do a bit of socket work and binary manipulation
13:14:11  <Sacro> SpComb: i just wondered if it was do-able
13:14:17  <SpComb> certainly
13:14:26  <Sacro> SpComb: yes, ask Brianetta, i think he's done it
13:14:36  <Sacro> actually, check the masterserver!!!
13:14:40  * SpComb pokes Brianetta to give him the source code
13:14:46  <SpComb> well,
13:14:48  <SpComb> or whatever it was
13:15:08  <mikl> Brianetta has written some rather cool code for interfacing with OTTD, but I think it's all in TCL :/
13:15:09  <Sacro> yeah, that uses PHP
13:15:12  <Brianetta> huh?
13:15:23  <Sacro> oh noes!*hides*
13:15:24  <Brianetta> The PHP stuff is form the SVN server
13:15:24  <SpComb> have you written PHP code for accessing OpenTTD servers?
13:15:27  <Brianetta> website branch
13:15:32  <SpComb> aha
13:15:40  <Brianetta> Stolen from the main web site code
13:16:00  <mikl> IP-theft'r'us :)
13:16:10  <Brianetta> It's guppled
13:16:22  <Sacro> thats an ace word
13:16:27  <Brianetta> (:
13:16:59  <SpComb> svn: URL 'svn://' refers to a file, not a directory
13:17:01  <SpComb> hrmph
13:17:09  <SpComb> I guess you can't store a .svn dir inside a file :)
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13:17:39  <mikl> SpComb: easily, you just need to tar it first :)
13:17:46  <SpComb> unlikely
13:18:01  <Sacro> dare anyone to make a file called "C:\Program"
13:18:03  * SpComb idly wonders how the openttd website is designed
13:18:15  <Sacro> SpComb: it uses Smarty afaik
13:18:37  <hylje> :o
13:19:37  <SpComb> yes, it does
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13:21:06  <Sacro> i think OpenTTD should output stuff using streaming XML
13:21:09  <SpComb> hmmmm, the master server uses mysql?
13:21:13  <SpComb> I don't
13:22:05  <Sacro> yeah, probably does use mysql
13:22:09  <Sacro> :O 73C
13:22:42  <SpComb> hmm, servers.php and server_detail all just query from the db
13:23:21  <Sacro> its a lot easier for the game to do an insert on the db
13:23:28  <Sacro> and then for the php to select it
13:24:07  <SpComb> hmm, the .php-file-per-page-and-then-a-shared-smarty-template design must be quite common
13:24:20  <SpComb> so the master server keeps the db up to date?
13:25:05  <Sacro> i presume so
13:25:14  <SpComb> ERROR 1130 (00000): Host '' is not allowed to connect to this MySQL server
13:25:23  <SpComb> still, a bit risky to have the sql passwords in the svn repo
13:25:50  <hylje> kind of
13:25:50  <Sacro> SpComb: what are you doing?
13:25:58  <hylje> Sacro: haxoring, dont you see
13:26:06  <Sacro> well, if the sql server only accepts localhost connections
13:26:09  <hylje> he clearly intends to blow our comps up
13:26:50  <Sacro> j00 b3 l33t h4xx0r?
13:28:47  <hylje> hey
13:28:54  <Sacro> there
13:29:02  <hylje> why cant i clone vehicles from the vehicle listing
13:29:24  <Sacro> i know, it'd be nice
13:29:36  <Sacro> as well as when viewing all trains linked to a station
13:30:09  <hylje> thats vehicle listing
13:30:31  <Sacro> yup :)
13:31:24  <SpComb> Sacro: I could imagine that that protection could be circumvented
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13:31:33  <SpComb> Sacro: for instance, if I manage to upload/eval a php script
13:31:59  <SpComb> although, I could probably read the sql config file that way anyways :P
13:31:59  <Sacro> SpComb: quite possibly
13:32:18  <Sacro> it most likey wont allow you access to much more though
13:32:21  <SpComb> dunno, but security does increase if you hide them
13:32:26  <SpComb> hmm?
13:32:40  <SpComb> I could make it donwload and execute a php script that acts as a port forwarder
13:32:41  <SpComb> say
13:33:04  <SpComb> or a C program, for that matter
13:34:26  <SpComb> ugh, giving some useage examples for your program might be a good idea
13:34:29  <SpComb> *class
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13:37:20  <SpComb> however, yes, a PHP class for accessing OpenTTD servers exists
13:37:21  <Brianetta> port forwarder?
13:37:36  <SpComb> opens a socket and pipes data to mysql
13:37:41  <Brianetta> Use ssh
13:37:44  <Sacro> hmm
13:37:51  <Sacro> Brianetta: he's hacking the masterserver
13:37:52  <SpComb> I'm talking about the server ^^
13:37:53  <Brianetta> look at the man page for -L
13:38:03  <SpComb> the fact that the mysql stuff is in the svn repo
13:38:19  <Brianetta> surely not the passwords?
13:38:29  <SpComb> yes
13:38:32  <SpComb> all of them
13:38:40  <SpComb> includes/ or so
13:38:51  <Brianetta> They should be in an include file, which only sets those variables, and isn't svn controlled
13:38:54  <SpComb> hmm
13:39:04  <SpComb> well, it has *some* mysql data in it
13:39:13  <Brianetta> and *is* documented elsewhere, so that others can make one for themselves
13:39:15  <SpComb> dunno how old o it is
13:39:29  <SpComb> I mean the OpenTTD class for PHP
13:40:11  <SpComb> svn cat svn://
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13:45:59  <Sacro> arrrrgh tis a gigajum
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13:46:11  <gigajum> Sacro?
13:46:29  <Sacro> hellooooooooo
13:46:37  <gigajum> :D
13:46:53  <Sacro> heh, just had a call "help, my internet isnt working", could be something to do with their router sat on my desk
13:47:26  <gigajum> :)
13:47:31  <gigajum> mine is working fine
13:47:51  <Sacro> yeah so's mine
13:48:02  <Sacro> and so is they guy who calleds
13:48:12  <Sacro> it just needs taking round and connecting
13:48:18  <SpComb> you lazy
13:48:26  <SpComb> depreiving the poor helpless users of their net!
13:48:34  <SpComb> how can they su... work without it!
13:49:12  <Sacro> they work better without it, belive me
14:10:14  <mikl> bah, why does windows suck so much...
14:10:44  <SpComb> because it's designed for idiots and most of the reasoning starts with "most people"
14:10:51  <SpComb> and it's also widely used
14:11:12  <SpComb> hard to keep it useable for computer-literate people while keeping it possible for novices to use it
14:11:16  <mikl> painfully so...
14:11:24  <SpComb> MS hasn't done such a bad job at it
14:11:28  <SpComb> but it's just unfortunate
14:11:33  <SpComb> supposedly Pro is better
14:11:43  <SpComb> consider that the Pro might come from the user....
14:11:48  <SpComb> interesting thought, I wonder if that's true
14:12:13  <SpComb> Home == for novices, Pro = for professionals
14:12:32  <hylje> yes
14:12:35  <mikl> well, i run Pro, and there's no real difference
14:12:43  <hylje> home is for novices because they dont realize how much it sucks
14:12:47  <mikl> appart from beein able to run Rdesktop and IIS
14:14:52  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
14:16:43  <Brianetta> Home is for cheapskates like me who only wanted XP in order to run a couple of games
14:16:55  <Brianetta> Why pay for Pro when I'm in Linux for 90% of the time?
14:17:55  <Sacro> can you install Windows without a cd drive?
14:18:16  * Sacro runs Corporate
14:18:30  <Sacro> its like Pro, except it has the wonderful advantage of not needing activation
14:19:28  <Brianetta> My copy of home came with the system for £60
14:19:43  <Sacro> this laptop came with a copy of home, but i dont use it
14:19:46  <mikl> Brianetta: I don't own XP myself - but my employer does... :/
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14:20:06  <Sacro> my desktop i built myself, and that has a copy of XP on it, purely cos i dont see the expense as been worthwhile
14:20:08  <Brianetta> mikl: My employer owns a whole site license, but I still have Linux on this machine at my desk
14:20:44  <Brianetta> XP is overly expensive
14:20:55  <Brianetta> although it was only as much as two games
14:21:06  <hylje> "only"
14:21:10  <Brianetta> that was an OEM bundle price, and it's not legal if I change computers
14:21:13  <mikl> Brianetta: so do I, but until someone ports Microsoft Business Solutions to linux or we get to change software, I have to use Windows from time to time :/
14:21:13  * Sacro wants X² for linux
14:21:26  <hylje> its infinitely more expensive when compared to ottd
14:21:27  <hylje> :<
14:21:32  <Brianetta> mikl: I do too, but I use rdesktop and do it from somewhere else.
14:21:41  <Brianetta> ottd isn't free
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14:22:07  <mikl> Brianetta: yes, but I have the sorry job of maintaining the windows-boxes as well :(
14:22:18  <Brianetta> mikl: As do I
14:22:30  <Brianetta> We've just gone from NT4 to AD
14:22:42  <Brianetta> I had to upgerade my Linux machine in order to join it to the AD
14:22:45  <Sacro> AD?
14:22:50  <Brianetta> Active Directory
14:22:55  <mikl> which caused my earlier comment about windows sucking, since I can't get this machine to eat the monitor drivers...
14:23:16  <Brianetta> mikl: Stick Linux and Samba on it.  It'll be weeks before the user notices.
14:23:22  <mikl> lol :)
14:23:46  <mikl> thankyfully, GNOME has no wizards...
14:24:07  <mikl> oooops, I really need a spell-checker for irssi
14:26:50  <Sacro> heh, i have one in X-Chat, but i ignore it
14:30:45  <Brianetta> $ ./loadsettings.tcl
14:30:45  <Brianetta> My name is autopilot
14:30:45  <Brianetta> My music player is timidity
14:30:45  <Brianetta> The missing setting is
14:30:45  <Brianetta> The nearly totally missing setting is
14:30:46  <Brianetta> The totally missing setting is
14:30:52  <Brianetta> My landscape might be arctic
14:30:54  <Brianetta> Woot. (:
14:31:05  <Brianetta> My openttd.cfg parser works.
14:31:30  <MiHaMiX> :)
14:31:46  <MiHaMiX> Brianetta: I used to code in tcl a few years ago :)
14:32:07  <Sacro> [15:33] <Brianetta> My landscape might be arctic <- it doesnt seem sure
14:33:14  <Brianetta> It isn't
14:33:31  <Brianetta> It read the config, but as yet it doesn't know if it's going to load a different game
14:34:12  *** Sacro [n=ben@] has quit ["Gone"]
14:38:42  <eQualizer> Is there a simple way to convert more than one train from one railway type to another in a one depot?
14:38:56  *** Sacro [n=ben@adsl-213-249-245-205.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
14:39:50  <Brianetta> eQualizer: FAQ.  Answer is not at all.
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15:06:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> [2006-07-05 16:17] <Sacro> can you install Windows without a cd drive? <- i once installed Win95 that way, copied the files from the cd to (overformatted to 1.7MB) disks, and installed it from them
15:07:13  <valhallazzzw> erm
15:07:34  <valhallazzzw> I have got win95 on floppy disks.. upgrade for win3.1
15:07:39  <valhallazzzw> 13 disks :o
15:07:48  <valhallazzzw> (ah, and windows3.1 is three disks iirc)
15:08:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> win 3.1 was 7 disks
15:08:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> (at least my version)
15:08:10  <mikl> valhallazzzw: you an archaeologist?
15:08:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have win 3.11 on CD
15:08:24  <valhallazzzw> no, a physicist
15:09:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> "Windows for Workgroups 3.11 and Works for Windows 2.0"
15:09:54  <valhallazzzw> :O
15:10:02  <peter1138> n
15:10:08  <valhallazzzw> I've got wordstar somewhere
15:10:10  <valhallazzzw> and erm
15:10:16  <valhallazzzw> symphony
15:10:21  <peter1138> any bots in the channel? heh
15:10:24  <peter1138> !seen tron
15:10:31  <peter1138> guess not
15:11:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> grep tron *.log ;)
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15:12:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have never used that works...
15:12:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> as long as i can think back, i have been using WordPerfect
15:13:19  *** Eddi|zuHause3 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
15:15:40  *** kinnaz [] has joined #openttd
15:16:12  <kinnaz> hi i have question, do i or don't i get the money when i drop smt at the station and it says Transfer: 100.000.000
15:16:12  <kinnaz> or smt
15:17:10  <glx> theorically you get money, but transfert is quite buggy
15:17:20  <kinnaz> when i get the money ?
15:17:25  <kinnaz> when i drop the goods at last location ?
15:17:25  <Belugas> nope, in other words :)
15:17:31  <Belugas> yes
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15:17:41  <kinnaz> okey
15:17:45  <kinnaz> that was what i tought
15:17:55  <Belugas> but only for the last part of the trip...
15:17:59  <kinnaz> i know..
15:18:01  <kinnaz> sadly..
15:18:09  <kinnaz> so is this system going to fixed ?
15:18:15  <kinnaz> or it's out of priority list
15:18:57  <glx> the fix needs cargo origin memorisation, and this doesn't exists yet
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15:19:28  <Belugas> so many things to do with cargo.... :(
15:19:35  <Belugas> never ending cargo
15:19:41  <kinnaz> okey:P
15:20:09  <kinnaz> does openttd force version ?
15:20:16  <kinnaz> or i can play with nightly builds
15:20:19  <kinnaz> aswell in network
15:20:28  <kinnaz> with other non nightly build guys ?
15:20:41  <glx> you can only play using same version as the server
15:20:50  <kinnaz> toobad
15:21:22  <glx> and if you use newgrf, you need to use the same files in the same order in openttd.cfg
15:22:36  <kinnaz> hmmmz
15:22:44  <kinnaz> haven't heard about the newgrf
15:22:48  <kinnaz> just checked the wiki site
15:22:51  <kinnaz> will check that
15:23:05  <kinnaz> stations are quite fancy
15:23:33  <glx> newstations are noly in nightlies
15:23:44  <glx> s/noly/only
15:24:04  <kinnaz> oeh okey
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16:03:18  <black_Nightmare> any of you know about the intercontinental airport?
16:08:23  *** SchAmane [] has joined #openttd
16:12:47  <Belugas> it is in nightly, it is good looking and is done by richk67 :)
16:13:02  <black_Nightmare> well one question I got was...
16:13:44  <black_Nightmare> are the runaways like arrival-departe-(airport)-departe-arrival?
16:15:07  <Belugas> i think so, yes
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16:15:35  <Belugas> i've played with it once or twice, but as I remember, this is how it goes
16:16:27  *** Rens2Sea [n=Rens2Sea@] has joined #openTTD
16:20:14  <mikl> heh, I wonder how long it will take before someone makes an airåport with 6 runways
16:21:33  <black_Nightmare> belugas...ty anyhow
16:21:41  <black_Nightmare> mikl....don't think anyone really need that
16:21:52  <black_Nightmare> considering how much space the international airport already takes up
16:22:08  <Belugas> as soon as newairports trough newgrf is done, anyone would be able to do so.
16:22:20  * black_Nightmare sticks to 2 runaways usually
16:22:47  <black_Nightmare> if planes keeps circling you have poor planning :p (usually no trains as I've noticed of other players)
16:23:47  <hylje> :o
16:24:15  <hylje> mikl: 8 imo, 2 each side :D
16:24:16  <black_Nightmare> I usually only add airports when there's a train route existing
16:24:31  <black_Nightmare> (unless its for goods-carrying planes which then sometimes have no shared rail stations at all)
16:25:14  <mikl> black_Nightmare: goods carrying airplanes is perhaps the biggest cash cow possible :)
16:26:12  <black_Nightmare> mikl..not true
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16:27:59  <mikl> well, it is certainly much easier to accomplish than building a trans-continental railroad :)
16:28:53  <black_Nightmare> forgot one thing if you will
16:29:03  <mikl> well?
16:29:10  <black_Nightmare> being able to share routes even mid-way between two main stations :p
16:29:26  <black_Nightmare> planes can't transfer to another in midair so have to hastle with more airports/etc
16:42:36  <mikl> nettwork add -autosendcmd "/^msg nickserv ident 123579;wait 2000" OFTC
16:42:41  <mikl> duh
16:42:42  <mikl> :)
16:44:27  <peter1138> hmm
16:44:31  <peter1138> how did you guess my password?
16:44:50  <hylje> :o
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16:51:26  <Wolf01> yo
16:51:37  <black_Nightmare> lol peter :P
16:52:02  <black_Nightmare> *wishes someone could see how my network had came to so far* hehe :p
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16:58:25  <Bjarni> <black_Nightmare>	*wishes someone could see how my network had came to so far* <-- make a few spelling mistakes on purpose in that line and it will be an unguessable password :)
17:00:35  <black_Nightmare> *pokes bjarni* :))
17:00:42  * black_Nightmare has 100% electric engines too
17:04:24  <peter1138> boring
17:05:05  <TL|Away> yup
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17:06:21  <black_Nightmare> same here...I dunno what to do..even in both ttdpatch and this online openttd server ^_^
17:06:26  <black_Nightmare> going have lunch soon tho anyhow
17:10:29  <Wolf01> who has the idea to autoreplace a vehicle/wagon with the same vehicle/wagon?
17:11:35  <Bjarni> Wolf01: well, it's called autorenew and is done when the vehicle is getting old
17:11:43  <Bjarni> that is, if you enable that feature
17:12:18  <Wolf01> no, the autoreplace itself, you can't select the same vehicle to make a loop
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17:12:28  <Bjarni> ahh
17:12:44  <Bjarni> I coded it like that before the first version got committed
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17:13:42  <Bjarni> this was because engineIDs at that time was 8 bit, and since we already had 256 engines, the engine had to point to itself to turn autoreplace off
17:14:37  *** black_Nightmare [] has left #openttd ["bye"]
17:15:02  <hylje> hackish
17:15:19  *** |AciD| is now known as AciD
17:15:38  <Bjarni> well, it was the only way to get a byte to give you 256 different settings
17:15:41  *** Arkus [] has joined #openttd
17:16:02  <Bjarni> now we got 16 bit engineIDs, and the off setting is now 0xFFFF
17:16:03  *** Hallo [] has joined #openttd
17:16:19  <Bjarni> but nobody added code to replace engines to their own type
17:16:20  <Wolf01> i thought about a little improvement to it: you build a train A with  i say 5 wood wagons, then you make it autoreplace with 5 goods wagons and again autoreplace it with 5 wood wagons
17:16:29  <Bjarni> I see no reason for such an addition
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17:17:07  <hylje> well
17:17:11  <anboni> probably to use the same engine for both wood dropoff and goods pickup
17:17:14  <Bjarni> that would not work
17:17:16  <Bjarni> we would need special code for that
17:17:24  <hylje> ie. hack
17:17:30  <Wolf01> so you can schedule it so:
17:17:30  <Wolf01> forest (load)
17:17:30  <Wolf01> sawmill
17:17:30  <Wolf01> depot (autoreplace)
17:17:30  <Wolf01> sawmill (load)
17:17:31  <Wolf01> city
17:17:33  <Wolf01> depot (autoreplace)
17:17:57  <Bjarni> I get the idea
17:17:59  <anboni> but as far as realism goes, that'd mean you'd have wood cars pile up at the sawmill and goods cars pile up at the city
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17:19:07  <Bjarni> the question is if autoreplace would be the right thing use. It should more likely be an order flag(s)
17:20:02  <anboni> and from a realism point of view, it should be refitting.. not replacing.. and that refitting would be limited to specific choices.. so no oil to goods refit
17:21:43  <hylje> or just wagon swapping
17:22:06  <hylje> then you could have another train pulling the wagons back to where they came
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17:27:06  <Bjarni> bad idea
17:27:24  <Bjarni> well the idea itself is not bad, but it's impossible to implement in a good way
17:27:43  <Wolf01> why?
17:27:53  <Bjarni> since we don't have schedules, we risk shortages of wagons in certain depots
17:28:18  <Bjarni> and the user can't prevent it because we don't have time in the orders
17:28:22  <Bjarni> they just show up at random
17:28:25  <Bjarni> times
17:28:37  <hylje> so.. implement scheluding?
17:29:06  <Wolf01> should be possible to add wagons instead cut off them if they are too much to fit the station
17:29:31  <Bjarni> what do you mean?
17:30:12  <Wolf01> i meant to add more autoreplace options
17:30:32  <Wolf01> and maybe train side instead depot side
17:32:17  <Bjarni> it's not really depot side
17:32:26  <Bjarni> it's global
17:32:58  <Wolf01> yes is global, but if you have a vehicle side autoreplace you can schedule it in the orders
17:33:16  <Wolf01> and each train can have a different schedule
17:33:52  <Bjarni> it should be added to the orders, and then it would be order sided, not train sided
17:34:00  <Wolf01> if two trains need the same schedule, just clone it like order cloning
17:34:00  <Bjarni> also, it would apply to all vehicle types
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17:44:49  <Bjarni> I just looked at the orders and searched for free bits. I think I got an idea to refit in the depots, but the space is so limited that we need to allocate way more memory to the orders if we want the orders to autoreplace vehicles
17:45:06  <hylje> zomg :(
17:45:58  <Bjarni> the problem is that we only got 2 bytes and they are already partly in use
17:49:32  *** Osai [] has quit []
17:50:00  <Wolf01> how much bits do you need?
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17:54:47  <CIA-3> miham * r5462 /trunk/lang/ (french.txt italian.txt unfinished/bulgarian.txt):
17:54:47  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-07-05 19:54:20
17:54:47  <CIA-3> bulgarian - 218 fixed, 79 changed by quicksilverbg (20), kokobongo (203), groupsky (74)
17:54:47  <CIA-3> french - 1 changed by glx (1)
17:54:47  <CIA-3> italian - 14 changed by sidew (14)
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18:07:30  <Sacro> Wolf01: many :)
18:07:41  <Wolf01> :)
18:08:00  <Wolf01> use the unused bits from the transparency and daylength patches XD
18:08:00  <Sacro> how much = good, how many bits = good
18:08:09  <Sacro> daylength doesnt use any bits
18:08:47  <Wolf01> uhm not all true, it uses 2 or 3 variables
18:10:54  <Bjarni> back (dinner)
18:11:18  <Wolf01> i know that using a byte for each vehicle can take more memory, but i think that 1 or 2 MB can be spent for new features, we are not using 386 with 16MB of ram
18:11:40  <Bjarni> <Wolf01>	how much bits do you need? <-- for proper autoreplace, 16 bit for original engineID and 16 bit for new engineID for each wagon type, that needs to be replaced
18:12:32  <Bjarni> if we add more memory to the orders, then we will need to save this. By keeping the current structure, we don't have to mess with the load/save code
18:12:40  <Bjarni> saves time
18:12:53  <Wolf01> yes i know
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18:14:00  * Bjarni just got an idea
18:14:02  <Wolf01> Bjarni... multiplexing XD
18:14:12  <peter1138> uh oh
18:15:11  *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AFK
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18:16:12  <Bjarni> if we add a pointer from the orders to a "unit" in the autoreplace pool (containing current and new engineIDs), we can just add an index in the savegame
18:16:48  <Bjarni> and we got dynamically allocated storage to autoreplace more than one engine type at a single stop in a depot if we like
18:16:53  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
18:17:27  <Bjarni> the tradeoff is that we add memory for a pointer in each order... well not even in each order, but in each line in the orders
18:17:41  <Bjarni> that's a whole lot of NULL pointers
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18:18:35  * peter1138 NULLs Bjarni
18:19:27  <Bjarni> agreed
18:19:38  <Bjarni> no more about that idea
18:19:41  <Bjarni> it actually sucks
18:19:50  <Bjarni> at least from a memory point of view
18:19:57  <peter1138> memory?
18:19:58  <peter1138> what's that?
18:19:59  <MiHaMiX> grrr
18:20:14  <Bjarni> that's the thing we only need 640k of
18:20:24  * peter1138 forgets
18:20:29  <peter1138> sup mihamix?
18:20:56  *** Sacro [n=ben@adsl-212-50-170-88.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:21:15  <Bjarni> *	peter1138 forgets <-- and that feature is called a memory leak
18:21:34  *** Sacro [n=ben@adsl-212-50-170-88.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:21:48  <peter1138> nah
18:21:54  <peter1138> a memory leak is when you *don't* forget
18:22:23  <Bjarni> you didn't, but you don't have access to your memory either
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18:40:26  <Wolf01> who knows very well how the catchement areas code works?
18:41:06  <Sacro> oh noes! its a brianetta
18:41:08  <Wolf01> (and if the same guy has time to spend to explain it to me)
18:41:15  <Sacro> Wolf01: change it according to daylength?
18:41:21  <Sacro> :O TIS RAININ
18:41:40  <Wolf01> sacro... how i change the catchement areas according to daylength?
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18:41:54  <Wolf01> i can't find a common point :|
18:41:58  <Sacro> Wolf01: im not sure how, and not sure you'd want to
18:42:17  <Wolf01> i simply want to add a "show catchement area" button to a station
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18:42:54  <Sacro> ahh
18:43:00  <Sacro> check the drawing code
18:43:15  <hylje> lets draw code!
18:43:41  * Sacro draws a sword
18:44:03  <hylje> thats a fine sword you drew
18:44:55  <Sacro> yes, would you like to feel how sharp it is
18:45:40  <Wolf01> o---(=======> fight!
18:46:02  <Bjarni> <Sacro>	yes, would you like to feel how sharp it is <-- you figured out how to code C#?
18:46:16  <Wolf01> lol
18:46:45  <Bjarni> finally I have seen something C# is good at
18:46:47  <Sacro> Bjarni: D#, tis better
18:46:48  <hylje> ambiguousness ftw
18:46:54  <Bjarni> compile your own weapons
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18:47:09  <Sacro> ambiguousnes ft
18:47:39  <Bjarni> Sacro: I'm too used to smilies... I read your line as :D# and I wondered why did you show your shirt?
18:47:54  <Wolf01> a C# compiler
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18:48:55  <hylje> :E
18:48:56  <Bjarni> Wolf01: it's more like an optimiser. It increase efficiency and reduces execution time
18:48:59  <hylje> compiler hardware..
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18:50:28  <Bjarni> bbl
18:50:34  <Wolf01> bye
18:50:47  <Wolf01> mmm C&C time
18:51:14  *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AFK
18:51:51  <hylje> o no
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19:16:02  <Arkus> Hey guys, any reason why I couldn't ask for some tips in here, or is there another channel for that?
19:17:12  <hylje> tips regarding ottd?
19:17:13  <hylje> why not
19:17:41  <Sacro> we give out all kinds of tips in here
19:17:45  <Sacro> Never eat yellow snow
19:17:46  <lws1984> even women tips!
19:17:56  <lws1984> never try to compliment a woman while drunk
19:18:00  <Sacro> lws1984 is not a woman, no matter what your told
19:18:08  <Sacro> lws1984: her, or you?
19:18:24  <lws1984> wtf???
19:18:26  <Arkus> lol it's ok, I'm gay, but thanks anyway ;) I'm trying to improve my building technique in ottd, and I have a bit of an issue with efficiency. My railways always seem to jam up no matter how many signals and stuff I put in
19:18:41  <Arkus> So i've been looking at the tracks on the #openttdcoop sandbox server
19:18:48  <SpComb> "wow, you look a lot nicer today than what you looked yesterday!"
19:18:51  <hylje> those are good practise
19:18:59  <hylje> and work quite well
19:19:00  <Arkus> And I understand from that that a structure such as LLL_____RRR are better than the LR i am used to
19:19:09  <Arkus> However I can't fathom how I am meant to start such a construction
19:19:15  <Sacro> SpComb: but then youve just inferred that yesterday she didnt ACTUALLY look that good
19:19:27  <hylje> well
19:19:34  <Arkus> If I start the mainline straight away at the start of a game, I have a massive cost associated with construction that I can't afford in 1950
19:19:44  <Arkus> Yet if I leave it until later on, I have already linked a number of industries together
19:19:44  <hylje> you do first the normal lines you do
19:19:48  <Sacro> hmm, i personally dont like co-op styles of play
19:19:54  <hylje> then you do big mainlines parallel to them
19:20:01  <hylje> and divert traffic to them
19:20:09  <SpComb> Sacro: say she has the same clothes as yesterday (ignore the fact that the previous statement is never true)
19:20:10  <hylje> eventually you can remove the old lines
19:20:13  <Arkus> So phase them out and then replace them wit the big mainline?
19:20:18  <hylje> yes
19:20:25  <Arkus> Ok
19:20:37  <Arkus> I typically use LR to start with - is that ok for branch lines?
19:20:39  <hylje> yes
19:20:54  <Sacro> Arkus: makes more sense then RL
19:21:17  <hylje> then start doing big mainlines to your big dropoffs when the LRs start jamming
19:21:27  <Arkus> (I'm British so LR is good :))
19:21:44  <peter1138> Sacro: i want to play co-op, but not in the mass-organised way they do
19:21:46  <Arkus> And am I right in my understanding that a station should connect only to the mainline, and then only via a branch line?
19:21:55  <Sacro> hehe, i suppose RL is more the Australian way
19:22:03  <Sacro> peter1138: me too, why not start a UKRS MiniIN server :D
19:22:04  <Brianetta> LR is drive-on-right with #openttdcoop
19:22:17  <Brianetta> RL would be British
19:22:25  <hylje> Arkus: yes, branchs connect to MLs
19:22:28  <hylje> branches*
19:22:37  <Brianetta> since the majority of the planet see drive-on-left as backwards
19:22:41  <hylje> yes
19:22:42  <hylje> :>
19:22:42  <Arkus> And stations should not join to each other without going on the mainline?
19:22:53  <hylje> unless the stations are close by, no
19:23:20  <Arkus> Do you recommend picking one conveniently located drop off industry (factory, steel mill etc...) and bringing everything to one place to get the massive output going on?
19:23:22  <Brianetta> I hope you're not talking about sandbox
19:23:25  <Arkus> Or is it better to use a few such drop off industries
19:23:29  <Brianetta> [20:22] <hylje> unless the stations are close by, no
19:23:31  <Brianetta> You meant "no"
19:23:41  <hylje> Brianetta: yeah i was a bit confused there
19:24:01  <Brianetta>
19:24:13  <Brianetta> Arkus: Your questions might all be answered there
19:24:52  <Sacro> Brianetta: drive backwards on the left...that could be fun
19:25:09  <hylje> ::D
19:25:14  <Brianetta> Sacro: We do, though (L
19:25:40  <Arkus> Current train length on sandbox is 3 tiles ya?
19:25:56  <Brianetta> I believe so
19:25:57  <Sacro> Brianetta: no, i mean pull over to the left, engage reverse, beats 3 point turns
19:26:31  <peter1138> Sacro: cos. uh. hmm.
19:29:08  <peter1138> cos i'm playing ut. or something./
19:29:52  <hylje> zomg
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19:42:57  <Brianetta> I need a Windows test subject
19:43:05  <Brianetta> Do I have a willing victim?
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19:43:34  <Arkus> depends what i'm doing!
19:45:22  <Brianetta> Right
19:45:25  <Brianetta> What I want
19:46:04  <Brianetta> is somebody with a copy of autopilot, Tcl for Windows with Expect (such as ActiveTcl), Windows and openttd
19:46:18  <Arkus> that's me screwed then
19:46:20  <Brianetta> somebody with all that who doesn't mind editing a file and trying a couple of things
19:46:36  <Brianetta> Arkus: It's all free stuff
19:46:44  <Arkus> i have a bandwidth cap in force
19:46:49  <Brianetta> ew
19:46:50  <Arkus> my download rate is around 4kb/sec atm :(
19:46:53  <Arkus> changing ISP soon
19:47:04  <Brianetta> Anybody else:
19:47:13  <Brianetta> You could be the one who allows autopilot to run on Windows
19:47:42  <Sacro> Brianetta: i suppose i could...
19:48:01  <Brianetta> Check the license agreement
19:48:04  *** lws1984 is now known as lws|Away
19:48:08  <Brianetta> just in case you despise its terms
19:48:36  <Sacro> i see no licence
19:48:51  <Brianetta> It's in the menu on the right of the page I linked
19:48:55  <Sacro> lets face it, if its like the microsoft EULA ill just breeze past
19:49:00  <Brianetta> It's not
19:49:13  <Brianetta> It allows free-of-charge commercial and non-commercial use
19:49:21  <Sacro> sounds good to me
19:49:45  <Brianetta> You do need to register, though, to download it from them
19:49:53  <Brianetta> "ActiveTcl now includes Expect for Windows; a license is no longer required."
19:49:57  <Brianetta> That's the best bit
19:50:06  <Sacro> well i have an hour to kill before CentOS finishes downloading
19:50:10  <Brianetta> heh
19:51:33  <Sacro> sooo...what files to get?
19:52:45  <Sacro> ActiveTCL for windows sounds good
19:52:55  <Brianetta> Yes
19:52:57  <Brianetta> That's it
19:53:03  <Brianetta> It comes with Expect and tcllib
19:53:21  <Brianetta> Doesn't come with mysqltcl, but that's no hazard
19:53:22  <Sacro> hmm, its incomoing now
19:53:35  <Brianetta> Do you have autopilot-irc ?
19:53:45  <Brianetta> or any older autopilot
19:54:05  <Sacro> nope
19:54:13  <Brianetta> right
19:54:18  <Brianetta> grab the old one from the forum
19:54:33  <Sacro> considering hijacking the centos server im setting up though, and using it for my own dastardley server when nobodys looking
19:54:37  <Brianetta> it's simplest, and most likely not to bomb with an error because something isn't installed
19:54:46  <Brianetta> Sacro: UML
19:54:54  <Brianetta> Server within a server
19:55:29  <Sacro> UML?
19:55:33  <Sacro> ah yes :)
19:55:36  <Sacro> either that or Xen
19:56:04  <Sacro> what is simpleist?
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19:56:48  * Brianetta shrugs
19:57:10  <Sacro> heh, CentOS?
19:57:29  <Brianetta> I prefer Fedora
19:57:53  <valhallazzzw> debian \o/
19:57:53  <Sacro> well i was looking at that, but it seemed that CentOS was quicker with security fixes
19:58:02  <Sacro> valhallazzzw: dselect scared me
19:58:29  <Arkus> :O I have found a bug in ottd i think
19:58:31  <Sacro> if it did a base install with no fuss, and then allowed you to build from there, it'd be an awful lot easier
19:58:36  <Sacro> Arkus: doesnt surprise me
19:58:47  <Sacro> Brianetta: autopilot 1.3?
19:59:04  <Arkus> I am building a pretty coal unloading station and one of the pieces of track is facing the wrong way
19:59:10  <Brianetta> yes
19:59:18  <Sacro> Arkus: known newstations bug
19:59:23  <Brianetta> You might need to rename it autopilot.tcl
19:59:45  <Arkus> Will my trains still use the dodgy platform?
19:59:50  <hylje> no
19:59:54  <Arkus> darn
19:59:58  <Arkus> good job i only need 2 platforms then ;)
20:00:10  <Sacro> Brianetta: done, bbs, got to move
20:00:12  <Sacro> Arkus: yes
20:00:16  <Sacro> will use it fine
20:00:22  <Sacro> AFAIK its just a display glitch
20:00:32  *** Sacro [n=ben@adsl-212-50-170-88.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:02:00  <peter1138> hmm, yeah
20:02:04  <peter1138> maybe i should look at that, heh
20:02:18  *** lws|Away is now known as lws1984
20:02:57  <hylje> yes you should
20:10:22  *** lws1984 [] has quit ["Quit"]
20:10:37  *** Sacro [n=ben@adsl-212-50-170-88.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
20:10:57  *** paulstuffins [] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:11:13  <Sacro> Brianetta: im back :)
20:11:59  <Brianetta> two secs
20:12:01  *** XeryusTC [] has quit ["So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish"]
20:12:02  <Brianetta> Helen demands tea
20:12:18  <Sacro> ahh, just glad its not the other way around :S
20:12:58  <Brianetta> OK, kettle's on
20:13:08  <Sacro> nice, ActiveTCL has just installed
20:13:14  <Brianetta> Good.
20:13:27  <Brianetta> It probably whinges like a kid about autopilot
20:13:42  <Sacro> heh, it'll be fun to try
20:13:49  <Brianetta> you need to make a single change
20:14:02  <Brianetta> add this line near the top:
20:14:06  <Brianetta> package require Expect
20:14:35  <Sacro> hang on, misplaced it :S
20:14:44  <Brianetta> heh
20:14:49  <Brianetta> It needs to be in your openttd directory
20:15:40  <Sacro> ill download the nightly now
20:17:58  <Sacro> Brianetta: right, ready
20:18:45  <Brianetta> Excellent.
20:18:51  <Brianetta> Run autopilot (:
20:18:55  <Sacro> r5462 sat ready
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20:19:21  <Sacro> ...\openttd.exe' is not a valid win32 application
20:19:28  <Brianetta> I expected that.
20:19:37  <Brianetta> This is exactly the problem we're trying to fix.
20:19:42  <Sacro> need $(EXE)
20:19:47  <Brianetta> Can you edit the autopilot
20:19:59  <Sacro> yep
20:20:03  <Brianetta> wait
20:20:06  <Brianetta> [21:19] <Sacro> need $(EXE)
20:20:07  <Brianetta> What's that?
20:20:10  * Sacro hugs Scite
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20:20:18  <Sacro> ah its used in makefiles
20:20:29  <Brianetta> hmm
20:20:30  <Sacro> you set it to ".exe" when building for windows
20:20:47  <Brianetta> ok
20:20:54  <Brianetta> so, you editing the autopilot?
20:21:01  <Sacro> yep
20:21:13  <Brianetta> find the first line with spawn in it
20:21:48  <Sacro> exp_spawn ./openttd -c $config -D -g $arg2
20:21:52  <Brianetta> yey
20:21:56  <Sacro> guessing a s/openttd/openttd.exe is needed
20:22:07  <Brianetta> try that first
20:23:15  <Sacro> nope
20:23:20  <Brianetta> actually, best if we're editing the third spawn line
20:23:22  <Brianetta>    exp_spawn ./openttd -c $config -D
20:23:25  <Sacro> could it be because theres a space in the pwd?
20:23:28  <Sacro> yep, i figured that
20:23:33  <Brianetta> since that's the one that is run if there's no args
20:23:36  <Sacro> line 53
20:23:43  * Brianetta starts counting
20:23:53  <Brianetta> I have it open in a browser
20:24:07  <Sacro> heh
20:24:13  <Sacro> its the 3rd one down
20:24:29  <Sacro> "exp_spawn ./openttd.exe -c $config -D"
20:24:35  <Brianetta> Try it
20:24:41  <Sacro> nope, it fails
20:24:51  <Sacro> its thinking its a win32 console app
20:24:59  <Brianetta> OK, try changing it to this:
20:25:05  <Brianetta> exp_spawn cmd /c ./openttd -c $config -D
20:25:24  <Brianetta> exp_spawn cmd /c ./openttd -c $config -D
20:25:28  <Brianetta> highlighted the addition
20:26:03  <Sacro> zonealarm queries it
20:26:11  <Brianetta> Let it through
20:26:15  <Brianetta> It's a dedicated server
20:26:25  <Brianetta> It might get listed on the master server (:
20:26:41  <Brianetta> Did it run?
20:26:53  <Brianetta> Doesn't matter at this point whether it works properly
20:27:01  <Sacro> write(spawn_id=]: broken pipe while executing "exp send_"debug_level net=0\n""
20:27:03  <Brianetta> only that the dedicated server is started
20:27:12  <Brianetta> drat
20:27:15  <Sacro> line 71
20:27:35  <Brianetta> yeah, the first time it tries to type anything, it's not htere
20:27:50  <Sacro> seems like that
20:28:09  <Sacro> i wonder how high i can cap CentOS before my brother notices
20:28:10  <Brianetta> right
20:28:29  <Brianetta> Looks like this isn't going to be solved quickly - thanks for your help
20:28:33  <Brianetta> one more thing
20:28:38  <Brianetta> can you run tclsh
20:28:40  <Sacro> im here all night
20:28:48  <Brianetta> and then tell me what this command says:
20:28:48  <Sacro> yes :)
20:28:55  <Brianetta> puts $tcl_platform(platform)
20:28:55  <Sacro> %
20:29:13  <Sacro> windows
20:29:17  <Brianetta> Excellent.
20:29:27  * Sacro imagines a mr burns kind of voice
20:29:46  <Brianetta> More of a series 1 Mr. Burns
20:29:55  <Sacro> oooh
20:30:00  <Brianetta> % puts $tcl_platform(platform)
20:30:00  <Brianetta> unix
20:30:37  <Sacro> hmm, my laptop says that too
20:31:06  <hylje>
20:31:54  <Brianetta> afk for  a bit
20:33:20  <Sacro> hylje: hehehe
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20:42:42  <Sacro> hmm, say ive downloaded the CentOS dvd, and i want to use 3/4cd's instead, is there a way to split it?
20:42:52  <Sacro> or do i have to do a USB/ftp install
20:43:01  <hylje> not sure
20:43:55  <Sacro> neither
20:47:18  <Sacro> ah well :) gonna be fun
20:47:25  <Sacro> ill mount it, and make a USB key, and do it over NFS
20:47:32  <Sacro> i wish it had samba install though
20:50:27  <Sacro> ah, http install, thats easier
20:52:39  <peter1138> Need for speed!
20:53:02  <hylje> :E
20:53:05  <Sacro> peter1138: ?
20:53:13  <peter1138> nfs heh
20:53:14  <hylje> Network FileSystem: Underground
20:53:18  <peter1138> lol
20:56:12  <Brianetta> Back soon
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21:02:37  <Sacro> :O is him
21:02:50  <hylje> :O
21:03:39  <orudge> Run for the hills!
21:04:07  <Sacro> arrrrrrrrgh ITS AN ORUDGE
21:04:21  <hylje> HIT ITS WEAK SPOT
21:04:21  <Sacro> orudge: dont you live in the hills?
21:04:40  <hylje> FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE
21:05:02  <Sacro> boom - hedgehog
21:05:06  * orudge eats the hills for breakfast
21:05:27  <Sacro> run away from the hills! and if you see anymore, run away from them!
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21:27:06  <Brianetta> OK, whos daft idea was it to give the openttd dedicated server a text window instead of just letting it be a console application?
21:27:16  <Brianetta> (win32 version)
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21:34:39  <Frostregen> hmm, never seen it different
21:35:10  <Brianetta> It's never been different
21:35:17  <Brianetta> but you rnu openttd -D in a command window
21:35:22  <Brianetta> and you get... another window!
21:35:25  <Brianetta> yey
21:35:26  <Frostregen> yup
21:35:32  <Brianetta> shame it's impossible to autopilot that
21:35:40  <Brianetta> and it's *only* Windows
21:35:57  <Brianetta> For every other platform, openttd does it properly
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21:38:00  <Frostregen> hmm
21:40:06  <Brianetta> need a patch, I suppose
21:40:24  <Frostregen> just looking into the code
21:40:50  <Frostregen> #if defined(WIN32)
21:40:50  <Frostregen> 				//CreateConsole();
21:40:50  <Frostregen> #endif
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21:47:54  <ln-> what's the status of München maglev?
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21:48:51  <Sacro> ?
21:48:53  <Sacro> brb
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21:52:45  <hylje> gief
21:53:02  <Sacro> back
21:53:27  <Brianetta> Looks like it
21:53:27  <Sacro> feig?
21:53:43  <Sacro> install CentOS without a cd drive
21:53:46  <Brianetta> Frostregen: I don't suppose you can compile it without that line?
21:53:52  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
21:53:55  <Sacro> and a distinct lack of NFS
21:55:03  <Brianetta> Anybody with a working Win32 dev environment, please tell me if openttd dedicated server works if openttd.c line 364 is removed
21:55:18  <Brianetta> It's a stupid line and not deserving of being there
21:55:40  <Frostregen> it starts
21:55:45  <Frostregen> without anything
21:55:46  <Frostregen> =)
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21:55:58  <Brianetta> #if defined(WIN32)
21:55:58  <Brianetta>     BreakAutopilot();
21:55:58  <Brianetta> #endif
21:56:25  <Frostregen> the correct line is in dedicated_v.c 122
21:56:28  <Brianetta> Perhaps CreateConsole needs adjusting
21:57:27  <Sacro> Brianetta: i would...however im just installing CentOS for work
21:57:55  <Frostregen> if so, i don't know how
21:58:13  <Brianetta> It creates a window and redirects stdio to/from it
21:58:41  <Brianetta> It's in win32,c
21:59:17  <Eddi|zuHause> so you want it to use the existing console instead?
21:59:23  <Brianetta> Of course
21:59:26  <Brianetta> like every other OS
21:59:41  <Brianetta> Otherwise, autopilot remains a tool for the minority
22:00:11  <Brianetta> There is literally no way at all that any autopilot-like application can be made with that window stealing the console
22:00:24  <Brianetta> It also means you can't run a dedicated server via telnet (:
22:00:41  <Brianetta> um, not that I'd endorse that
22:00:44  <hylje> who runs dedicated o  windows anyway
22:00:50  <Brianetta> hylje: Several
22:00:57  <Brianetta> I've had requests for Windows support
22:01:00  <hylje> k
22:01:04  <Brianetta> but I can't provide it
22:01:34  <valhallazzzw> cygwin should work ;)
22:01:47  <Brianetta> That's the other way
22:02:11  <Sacro> force USB boot...
22:02:20  <Brianetta> It just seems so daft that there's a special case for Windows that needn't be there
22:02:24  <Sacro> bums
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22:23:07  <Frostregen> hmm, can't find a way to change it to console
22:30:34  <Sacro> what?
22:33:50  <Brianetta> dedicated server
22:34:01  <Brianetta> Sacro: autopilot for Windows is impossible
22:35:24  <Sacro> Brianetta: shame
22:35:32  <Sacro> seems that so is installing CentOS without a CDROM or USB key
22:35:55  *** roboman [] has joined #openttd
22:36:14  <Brianetta> You need a boot device
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22:37:43  <Sacro> Brianetta: PXE is my last hope
22:38:04  <Sacro> followed by "extracting" its hard drive
22:38:07  <roboman> hello
22:38:28  <Brianetta> roboman
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22:45:02  <Wolf01|AFK> 'night
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23:01:25  <Stixsmaster> hey in the nightly build, it doesnt let me build anything as soon as i start a new scenario and i was wondering how do you get the build what ever option to work?
23:01:50  <Eddi|zuHause> check your start date
23:02:10  <Eddi|zuHause> with the normal trainset, you should not start before 1950
23:02:39  <Stixsmaster> why?
23:03:11  <Eddi|zuHause> because there is nothing to build ;)
23:03:45  <Stixsmaster> ahh ok well thx for the help and well that is good to know
23:04:13  <Eddi|zuHause> you can use alternative trainsets (by installing newgrfs)
23:04:39  <Eddi|zuHause> then you can do early starts
23:04:39  <Eddi|zuHause> like 1920
23:04:47  *** Tobin [] has joined #openttd
23:04:53  <Stixsmaster> yea i got sum new ones to join the briennetta server and i  have no clue if i spelled the server name correct
23:07:10  <Stixsmaster> well off to play openTTD the latest nightly build
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23:29:02  <Stixsmaster> ok i have taken eddi's advice on the start date and still i cant build sh*t so yea now what?
23:29:18  <Zavior> Reinstall everything
23:29:59  <Stixsmaster> on everything do you mean just reinstall all of OTTD?
23:31:13  <Zavior> .. ootd :>
23:31:28  <Stixsmaster> huh?
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23:34:25  <Zavior> ottd.
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23:36:20  <Stixsmaster> ok i reinstalled everything and still same thing...the build option is not available
23:36:38  <Stixsmaster> everything else works
23:37:54  <Zavior> Have you edited the config file?
23:38:17  <Stixsmaster> the openttd.cfg yea
23:39:47  <Stixsmaster> i just added newgrf
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23:43:47  <Stixsmaster> ok nvm i figured out the problem i just wasnt building the proper building...jeeses crist im a dumbass
23:44:21  <Stixsmaster> well thx for the help anyways
23:44:43  <Stixsmaster> if i really like this chatroom because soo many ppl like you guys help out alot
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