Log for #openttd on 13th November 2006:
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00:41:18  <Born_Acorn>
00:41:19  <Born_Acorn> :o
00:43:06  <jez> hahaha
00:43:15  <jez> playing against humans sucks
00:43:18  <jez> i've always said it
00:44:10  <Sionide> i only LAN against people i know because i go across the room and smack 'em one if they try anything stupid
00:54:37  <BFM> haha
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07:48:17  <Zevensoft>
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08:05:32  <Rubidium> Zevensoft, about that patch: video/sdl_v.c does not compile. Did you try to replace all the [xy]factor with vfactor?
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08:10:02  <Zevensoft> yeah
08:10:12  <Zevensoft> I might have stuffed it
08:10:14  <Zevensoft> hang on
08:10:45  <Zevensoft> ok yeah, I forgot to change the initialization
08:11:00  <Zevensoft> I'll repatch and upload
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08:15:23  <Zevensoft> ok done
08:18:35  * peter1138 wonders who it is who keeps cloning trains but not sharing orders
08:18:56  <peter1138> it's a pita when you've got a couple of dozen trains all with the same route...
08:21:40  <Patrick_> it's an easy mistake to make
08:21:46  <Patrick_> I reckon clone should be share by default
08:21:55  <peter1138> not every time...
08:21:57  <Patrick_> even if it's inconsistent with goto behaviour, it makes more sense
08:22:20  <Patrick_> although I guess it could cause more mayhem in the hands of the uneducated
08:22:34  <Patrick_> as in, make a 40-train route, then clone one off and change its orders, suddenly they all stop
08:22:45  <peter1138> yeah
08:25:39  <Rubidium> Zevensoft: InitColorDist is taking way too much time, 7.5 seconds on my machine to be precise
08:25:57  <Zevensoft> yeah I know
08:26:12  <Zevensoft> its because of 3 nested loops
08:26:25  <Zevensoft> does the palette ever change?
08:26:51  <Zevensoft> (I dont mean animate, I mean change completely)
08:27:01  <Zevensoft> if not, I could use a table instead
08:27:05  <Zevensoft> like a 64kb file
08:28:50  <Zevensoft> all that just for a bilinear filter :)
08:29:59  <peter1138> it does for some climates
08:30:27  <Zevensoft> damn
08:32:12  <Rubidium> the nested loops can be made shorter as the tables should be symmetrical, right?
08:32:33  <Zevensoft> hrm thats true
08:33:51  <Rubidium> and if you're at it, add gfxfilter.c to Makefile
08:34:30  <Zevensoft> k
08:36:06  <Rubidium> and I would make the whole table-filling dependant on whether the bilinear filter has been chosen/selected
08:36:19  <Zevensoft> hrm another good idea
08:37:38  <Celestar> morning >:(
08:43:51  <Rubidium> morning Celestar
08:45:17  <Celestar> lots my HDD in the notebook :(
08:45:25  <Celestar> so no comp @ home
08:47:17  <Rubidium> that's not so good
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08:59:46  <Celestar> morning
09:00:48  <peter1138> lots = lost?
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09:04:50  <Celestar> lost
09:05:05  <Celestar> can boot knoppix from CD
09:05:18  <Celestar> sees the disc, but not the partition table
09:05:24  <Celestar> ==bad
09:05:47  * Celestar considers the disc and the data lost
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09:25:53  <Darkvater> morning
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09:28:30  <peter1138> hello mr vater
09:31:23  * Prof_Frink varts in peter1138's general direction
09:33:30  <Darkvater> Celestar: any luck on the minimap scrolling?
09:34:09  <Darkvater> on a slightly different topic: I worked on _z_windows yesterday; using a seperate array for the window-z positions, instead of shuffling the windows themselves around, resulting in possible crashes
09:35:02  <Darkvater> now my question is: there are a ton of places that loop the window array until the last (active) window. This is impossible with the lookup array as since the _windows[] themselves don't move around, you can have "gaps" in them, etc.
09:35:38  <Darkvater> so which one would be preferrable? 1. loop WHOLE _windows or 2. loop _z_windows and use extra referencing to get to the actual pointer(s)
09:36:22  <Darkvater> 2. also means _z_windows and _last_z_window needs to be visible externally to windows.c which I am not too happy about; however 1. always loops the whole windows array even if there are 2-3 windows open
09:37:04  <peter1138> hmm
09:37:35  <Darkvater> of course any other suggestion is welcome
09:48:03  <Darkvater> hehe
09:48:08  <Darkvater> I value your input people :D
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09:55:58  <peter1138> no idea
09:56:15  <peter1138> so do you think i need to convert those characters?
09:56:59  <Darkvater> aren't you already? it's encoded to utf8, isn't it?
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09:57:17  <Darkvater> I mean the _name_array patch encodes it
09:57:30  <peter1138> it encodes it, but it doesn't convert the characters that are different
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09:57:45  <peter1138> utf-8 below 256 is pretty much latin-1
09:57:48  <Darkvater> hmm, i thought we only used single-byte characters
09:57:52  <peter1138> we're latin-15
09:58:06  <peter1138> so there are half a dozen chars that need mapping
09:58:16  <peter1138> but only if they were usable in the first place
09:58:47  <Darkvater> I think I am missing something...
09:58:54  <peter1138> hmm
09:58:57  <peter1138> yes?
09:59:06  <Darkvater> if we have u' for example you just read it and convert, no?
09:59:22  <peter1138> yesh
09:59:25  <Darkvater> or you need to map that to unicode and convert?
09:59:31  <peter1138> correct
09:59:38  <Darkvater> ah :)
09:59:40  <peter1138> fortunately most characters are the same, so need no mapping
09:59:55  <Darkvater> would be the nice thing todo
10:00:04  <Darkvater> just a small lookup table and you're done
10:00:07  <peter1138> 0xA4 -> 0x20A4 iirc
10:00:11  <peter1138> well, there are 7
10:00:16  <peter1138> so i just did a switch block
10:00:20  <peter1138> however... i left it at home
10:00:45  <Darkvater> switch works as well
10:00:46  <peter1138> !seen bjarni
10:00:47  <_42_> peter1138, Bjarni ( was last seen quitting #openttd 1 day 21 hours 41 minutes ago (11.11. 12:19) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 18 hours 17 minutes there.
10:00:53  <Darkvater> he's on the forums
10:00:57  <peter1138> yeah, i know
10:01:06  <Darkvater> probably doesn't dare to show up here
10:01:13  <peter1138> i keep forgetting what i want to talk to him about
10:01:20  <Darkvater> fearing we'd expose yet another programming bug of his
10:01:21  <peter1138> oh yes, i know
10:01:29  <Darkvater> what is it?
10:01:35  <peter1138> the engines and wagons only filters are broken
10:01:51  <peter1138> in the train purchase list
10:01:59  <peter1138> click on engine only
10:02:18  <peter1138> then click on an item in the blank area of the matrix
10:02:27  <peter1138> listbox, whatever
10:02:36  <Darkvater> no shit..I know
10:02:47  <Darkvater> that is the next thing on my todo list after _z_windows
10:02:48  <peter1138> if lucky, you'll get a wagon, if unlucky it'll crash
10:03:11  <Darkvater> but I wanted window-z fixed first as that's more serious
10:03:13  <peter1138> strangely it works fine for aircraft
10:03:14  <peter1138> heh
10:03:20  <peter1138> i don't think it is actually
10:03:44  <peter1138> it's a problem that can be worked around, and it isn't user visible
10:04:07  <peter1138> bjarni bjarni bjarni
10:04:13  <Darkvater> I think it can be the cause of some of the really obscure bugs
10:04:15  * peter1138 attempts a summonses
10:04:24  <Prof_Frink> peter1138: mushroom?
10:04:32  <Darkvater> you never know if your window* pointer is valid after *ANY* function call in wndproc
10:04:41  <Darkvater> if you are lucky it is, if you aren't it isn't
10:04:52  <Darkvater> you can change the data of other windows without any visible effects
10:04:57  <Darkvater> very dangerous imho
10:05:26  <Darkvater> or just crash of course, but that's the good part
10:05:30  <peter1138> :)
10:05:48  <Darkvater> so that's why input would be nice :)
10:05:53  <Darkvater> or at least ideas
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10:06:33  <peter1138> cheat
10:07:02  <peter1138> hmm
10:07:25  <peter1138> do you need two arrays?
10:07:51  <peter1138> hmm
10:07:54  <peter1138> (c) me
10:08:02  <Darkvater> I can also store the z-index inside the window struct, but that'd suck for performance
10:08:15  <peter1138> yeah
10:08:24  <peter1138> don't do that
10:08:28  <Darkvater> I can use std::list
10:08:29  <Darkvater> ;p
10:08:32  <peter1138> bah
10:08:41  <peter1138> bloody forums have decided that every post is read :(
10:08:52  <Darkvater> he
10:08:59  <Darkvater> there were only 2 good posts today
10:09:17  <Darkvater> one about a guy complaining he got banned and villifying all admins and players
10:09:35  <peter1138> hehe
10:09:43  <Darkvater> and another one who made some maxiIN, where immediately people started attacking him on source/diff and license of include grf files
10:09:52  <peter1138> yup
10:09:56  <peter1138> i've read that lot already
10:10:12  <peter1138> russians, eh?
10:10:15  <Darkvater> :)
10:10:29  <peter1138> i wonder what they get up to
10:10:37  <peter1138> doing all that shit with 32bpp
10:10:57  <peter1138> i wonder how long they've keep the russianified version after utf8...
10:11:14  <peter1138> *they'll
10:11:23  <Darkvater> so anyways, I've made a Window *_z_windows[] array which holds the z-indices
10:11:33  <peter1138> yes
10:11:40  <peter1138> holds?
10:11:49  <peter1138> hmm
10:11:56  <Darkvater> donnu. do all cyrillic chars fit into the sprite-alphabet?
10:12:04  <Darkvater> holds pointers to windows of _windows[]
10:12:24  <ln-> is the evaluation order of   a = b() | c() | d();  guaranteed to be something?
10:12:57  <Darkvater> you're orring
10:13:16  <ln-> i know
10:13:19  <mikl> he's an orringo :)
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10:13:56  <Darkvater> wb Tron_, or if you weren't around welcome
10:15:26  <ln-> well, more precisely, the situation is like this: a = (buf[n++] << 1) | (buf[n++] << 2) | (buf[n++] << 3);  -- is there a risk the expressions will be evaluated from right to left?
10:16:47  <Darkvater> well if you are unsure buf[n]|buf[n+1]|buf[n+2]
10:17:11  <Darkvater> but I think it's always left-to-right, at least that's what we've assumed in openttd all along and that seems to work
10:18:08  <Tron_> DO NOT DO THIS
10:18:17  <Darkvater> or look at assembly code ;)
10:18:22  <Tron_> no
10:18:23  <Tron_> DON'T
10:18:29  <Tron_> the result is plain undefined
10:18:52  <Tron_> never modify an lvalue more than once between two sequence points
10:20:35  <Tron_>  <Darkvater> but I think it's always left-to-right, at least that's what we've assumed in openttd all along and that seems to work <--- to make it /very/ clear: this is nonsense
10:20:38  <Celestar> .
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10:21:29  <Celestar> Darkvater: "man operator" ?
10:21:40  <ln-> i wouldn't do that, but i have some code here that does, and i wondered how seriously broken it is.
10:21:51  <Tron_> ln-: in ottd?
10:21:51  <Tron_> where?
10:21:55  <Celestar> ln-: what's the exact line?
10:22:11  * Darkvater doesn't think it's openttd
10:22:31  <Celestar> I meant "paste it here"
10:23:13  <Darkvater> Celestar: minimap? ;)
10:23:14  <ln-> Tron_: fortunately not in ottd.
10:23:27  <Celestar> Darkvater: I lost my HDD this weekend, so I was stuck without a computer :S
10:23:48  <Celestar> called IBM support 20 minutes ago, replacement HDD comes tomorrow morning.
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10:23:50  <Darkvater> how does one lose a HDD?
10:23:52  <Tron_> Celestar: look inside your computer. The chance is pretty good that it's there
10:23:55  <Darkvater> oh dead...hehe
10:24:01  <Darkvater> I thought it has gone missing or something
10:24:15  <Celestar> Darkvater: sorry "lose" is a pilot expression for going inoperational.
10:24:30  <Celestar> "I've lost an engine" doesn't usually mean it that dropped off the wing :P
10:25:42  <Darkvater> :)
10:26:04  <Celestar> even tho that happened once or twice
10:26:13  <Prof_Frink> Celestar: Have you looked down the back of the sofa?
10:26:18  * Celestar imagines a GE-90 engine dropping in his backyard
10:26:28  <peter1138> heh
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10:36:50  <peter1138> hello
10:37:16  <Brianetta> hello
10:38:24  <Prof_Frink> hello
10:38:42  <Darkvater> hi
10:40:16  <KUDr> Darkvater, peter1138: 'optional_elrails' seems to work. Was running for whole night in MP. Do you have something else for me to do?
10:40:31  <Darkvater> bake me a cookie :)
10:40:39  <KUDr> ok
10:40:48  <Darkvater> KUDr: good morning, and great. I will have a look at it at home
10:40:54  <KUDr> my wife will do that
10:41:12  <KUDr> gm master :)
10:41:22  <peter1138> cookies :D
10:41:28  <Darkvater> hehe
10:41:48  <Darkvater> welll the list is up at todo 0.5
10:42:08  <KUDr> items withou name are still unassigned?
10:42:14  <Darkvater> but only if it doesn't interfere with your actual work and are eager to do something :)
10:42:36  <KUDr> i stayed at home - feel sick
10:42:52  <peter1138> i went to work, but feel sick
10:42:53  <Darkvater> I'm having a go at the windows thing #13 and also #06,#07
10:43:20  <Darkvater> the others are up for grabs; some are clearly peter's cake as it's newgrf, or seems to be newgrf
10:43:39  <peter1138> i'll be known forever as the guy who just did newgrf
10:43:39  <Darkvater> celestar said somethinga bout #09, but the HDD just got lost
10:44:03  <Darkvater> #24,#25 are probably mine as well
10:44:13  <Darkvater> peter1138: and utf8
10:44:21  <KUDr> 06 -  [FS#367] [Build vehicle GUI] remove filters << seriously?
10:44:32  <Darkvater> you're better off than me...what am I known for? nothing :(
10:44:32  <peter1138> they're broken anyway
10:44:41  <peter1138> Darkvater: being 'the boss' ;p
10:44:45  <KUDr> what about to repair them?
10:45:42  <Darkvater> you do not want to look at that code...
10:45:59  <Darkvater> they're broken, ugly an undesired
10:46:19  <KUDr> i can try it
10:46:29  <KUDr> hopefully i can understand it
10:46:48  <KUDr> if i will be able to repair it, would it be better than remove?
10:47:09  <Darkvater> I still opt for removal
10:47:30  <KUDr> only filter buttons or also sorting?
10:47:41  <Darkvater> no just filter
10:48:23  <KUDr> ok, have somebody else different opinion? << removing should be simpler
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10:48:46  <Darkvater> the sorting...while also a bit overkill is ok
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10:49:57  <KUDr> you are real master - you tell and nobody tries to disagree
10:50:00  <KUDr> :)
10:53:04  <Darkvater> LOL
10:53:29  <Darkvater> people do disagree...but a kick/ban usually fixes that ^_^
10:54:56  <KUDr> i agree with you for the same reason too
10:58:32  <peter1138> Darkvater's mind tricks are on top form today
10:59:19  <Darkvater> I had a whole weekend of mental rest
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11:05:20  <roboboy> gnight
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11:09:11  <Darkvater> hi there new souls
11:09:34  <Darkvater> peter1138: is newgrf-saving finished, just waiting for free time?
11:11:58  <peter1138> free time needed for some tweaking
11:12:37  <Darkvater> kk
11:12:48  <Darkvater> where was the utf todo list again?
11:13:09  <peter1138>
11:13:11  <peter1138> err
11:13:13  <peter1138> http://
11:14:47  <Darkvater> ok, not too much
11:15:14  <Darkvater> I could do some of the menial things
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11:16:01  <Darkvater> A merge would be good asap so it could get some testing before putting it into RC
11:16:39  <peter1138> well i could rewrite the latin-15 -> utf-8 conversion...
11:17:06  <Darkvater> some windows users might even bitch about why their savegames are unreadable in windows explorer and we should see if that is an issue to do before or after 0.5 (WCHAR, UNICODE)
11:17:15  <Darkvater> peter1138: that was a joke, right?
11:18:16  <peter1138> ...
11:18:22  <peter1138> it's a 7 line switch block ;p
11:18:30  <Darkvater> oh that heh
11:18:37  <Darkvater> I thought the whole UTF8 branch
11:19:10  <peter1138> noo
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11:26:53  <peter1138>
11:26:59  <peter1138> a bit NIH
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11:28:07  <Darkvater> not found
11:29:56  <Darkvater> a1
11:31:09  <Darkvater> < LUNCH
11:31:12  <Darkvater> -caps-lock
11:33:23  <peter1138> oh
11:33:29  <peter1138>
11:37:24  <Celestar> wee
11:37:37  <Celestar> I have rescued my data \o/
11:40:34  <Tron_>  <peter1138> <--- iconv -f ISO8859-16 -t CP1250 ?
11:40:40  <Tron_> s/16/15/
11:41:18  <Tron_> or is it UTF-16?
11:42:48  <peter1138> well, ISO8859-15 -> unicode -> UTF-8
11:43:03  <peter1138> indeed, NIH-symdrome
11:43:03  <Tron_> ?!
11:43:09  <peter1138> what?
11:43:37  <Tron_> i'm probably missing context
11:43:41  <Tron_> what is it good for?
11:43:53  <peter1138> converting custom strings in old save games
11:44:10  <peter1138> which are (mostly) latin-15
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11:44:53  <Tron_> user modified town names/vehicle names etc.?
11:45:42  <peter1138> yes
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12:04:28  <Brianetta> MiniIN ---> MaxiIN with Quark...
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12:12:03  <peter1138> < cry
12:12:32  <SpComb> what a silly station
12:13:56  <peter1138> eurostars carrying coal too
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12:17:04  <Darkvater> back
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12:19:16  <peter1138> wb
12:20:32  <peter1138> won't you be my wagon wheel?
12:20:41  <Darkvater> eek
12:20:42  * Darkvater runs
12:22:36  <peter1138> o_O
12:22:52  <peter1138> so, yeah, that's the conversion diff
12:24:23  <Darkvater> kept with the + char tmp[32];?
12:25:30  <Tron_> the 32 should probably be sizeof(*_name_array)
12:25:47  <Darkvater> I'm glad we agree Tron_ :)
12:25:48  <Tron_> and strfrom const char*
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12:27:21  <peter1138> oh
12:27:34  <peter1138> yeah, changes i made at home and left there
12:28:18  * peter1138 updates diff
12:29:48  <Tron_> tmp should be places in the outer loop
12:30:41  <Darkvater> it is in the outer loop
12:30:59  <Darkvater> or the variable decleration you mean?
12:31:03  <peter1138> it's outside the outer loop
12:31:34  * Darkvater puts 'approved by darkvater stamp on diff'
12:31:42  <Darkvater> Tron_: what do you mean?
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12:31:51  <Tron_> s/places/placed/
12:31:56  <peter1138> inside the outer loop instead of outside, heh
12:32:08  <Tron_> Darkvater: it's outside of the outer loop
12:32:10  * KUDr found the problem with 'lost input events' < whole concept is wrong - instead of event queue we have only _pressed_key, _right_button_down, and so on global variables
12:32:17  <Darkvater> for (i; i != lengthof(); i++) {char tmp[23]; char* to=tmp...] ?
12:32:20  <KUDr> why is that?
12:32:23  <Tron_> KUDr: old news is old
12:32:35  <Darkvater> KUDr: hehe, because that is how it was written :(
12:33:05  <peter1138> doesn't mean it can't be changed
12:33:09  <KUDr> if we want to fix it properly, it must use queues
12:33:09  <peter1138> if you're volunteering ;)
12:33:19  <KUDr> yes, i can
12:33:21  <KUDr> but
12:33:26  <peter1138> big job?
12:33:33  <KUDr> how much time we have before 0.5?
12:33:35  <Darkvater> it definitely does NOT have to stay as it is with global variables
12:33:39  <Tron_> KUDr: or handle input events directly instead of accumulating them
12:33:43  <Prof_Frink> KUDr: 5 mins
12:34:06  <Darkvater> KUDr: plan was RC1 by the end of November
12:34:10  <KUDr> Tron_: can work but i am not sure
12:34:27  <KUDr> huh 2 weeks
12:34:41  <KUDr> i can try, we will see
12:34:51  <Darkvater> but I donnu if that can be done...not much has happened since that date was set 2 weeks ago
12:35:03  <Darkvater> people keep getting "distracted" it seems
12:35:10  <Darkvater> or plain lost
12:35:20  <Tron_> hm? did you say anything? I didn't pay attention
12:35:24  <KUDr> yes
12:35:30  <KUDr> so what do you recommend?
12:35:53  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7135 /branches/utf8/ (functions.h misc.c openttd.c saveload.c): [utf8] -Codechange: Add conversion of custom names from iso8859-15 to utf-8, with a savegame bump (to 37)
12:36:24  <peter1138> Darkvater: not lost, just stuck on the forums ;)
12:36:35  <Darkvater> ;P
12:36:56  * Prof_Frink admits to putting superglue on some of the topics
12:37:31  <Darkvater> KUDr: hmm good question; donnu actually
12:38:09  <Darkvater> I think it would be hard to handle for example dragging directly from the inputloop
12:40:11  <KUDr> we need our queue i guess
12:40:29  <peter1138> how do you decide to send mousedown -> mouseup or mouseclick?
12:40:33  <Darkvater> donnu what other people think?
12:40:37  <peter1138> or is that higher level...
12:40:40  <peter1138> hmm
12:40:51  <KUDr> peter1138: 3 events
12:41:03  <peter1138> fucking outlook
12:41:13  <Darkvater> we don't have a notion of 'mouseclick'
12:41:18  <Darkvater> buttondown is click
12:41:25  <KUDr> ohh yes
12:41:25  <peter1138> well... WE_CLICK
12:41:30  <Darkvater> which would be good to have changed :)
12:41:30  <peter1138> hmm
12:41:33  <peter1138> true
12:41:33  <Darkvater> but that is another topic
12:41:38  <peter1138> yes, it would
12:42:03  <peter1138> so what else do i need to do for utf8... hmm...
12:42:34  <Darkvater> utf8-commands.txt :)
12:42:35  <Darkvater> eh
12:42:37  <Darkvater> comments
12:43:00  <KUDr> simply each input event can be queued when detected and in InputLoop() we will read the queue and process it
12:43:32  <Tron_> this sounds a /bit/ odd
12:43:39  <Tron_> all events are already in a queue
12:43:54  <KUDr> true
12:44:48  <KUDr> then it would need 3 different GetEvent() implementations - SDL, cocoa, win32
12:45:32  <KUDr> and we can handle them by get and handle loop
12:46:45  <KUDr> but then it would be a big change
12:48:00  <peter1138> the loop is a bit strange...
12:48:19  <peter1138> for sdl anyway... PollEvent()
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12:48:26  <peter1138> returns -1 if a key is pressed
12:48:31  <Tron_> what exactly makes it bigger than putting deque-event-from-system-specific-queue-enque-event-in-ottd-queue handling in each backend?
12:49:19  <KUDr> 	Win32GdiStart,
12:49:19  <KUDr> 	Win32GdiStop,
12:49:19  <KUDr> 	Win32GdiMakeDirty,
12:49:19  <KUDr> 	Win32GdiMainLoop,
12:49:19  <KUDr> 	Win32GdiChangeRes,
12:49:20  <KUDr> 	Win32GdiFullScreen,
12:49:35  <KUDr> ang the same for cocoa
12:49:38  <KUDr> and SDL
12:49:45  <Tron_> pardon?
12:50:18  <KUDr> 3 differenmt systems how events are obtained
12:50:28  <KUDr> from OS
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12:52:05  <peter1138> hmm, pollevent returns -2 or -1
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12:52:12  <peter1138> magic values for no reason? heh
12:52:27  <Tron_> KUDr: yes, sure, we know that. your point is?
12:52:35  <Darkvater> KUDr: what with the video-driver functions?
12:53:19  <KUDr> i dunno what you mean (both)
12:54:02  <Tron_> exactly that's my problem
12:54:07  <Tron_> i don't know what you mean
12:54:16  <Darkvater> yaay, babel!
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12:55:03  <KUDr> Tron_: how would you dod that? calling event handlers from 	_video_driver->main_loop();
12:55:06  <KUDr> ?
12:55:37  <peter1138> that's how's done currently
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12:56:22  <peter1138> do these 'missed key' problems happen for win32 or cocoa?
12:56:35  <Darkvater> i CAN H
12:56:36  <Darkvater> EH
12:56:41  <Darkvater> I can confirm win32
12:57:08  <Darkvater> I have to type reeeaaallly slooooowly to get my text to fully appear in the console
12:57:30  <Darkvater> when CPU load is 100% (big games, debug build)
12:57:51  <Darkvater> typing 'exit' usually results in 'et' or something, or just 'x'
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13:00:14  <peter1138> that's a yes then :P
13:01:44  <KUDr> <peter1138> that's how's done currently << no - events are processed by storing in the global vars and then InputLoop() looks there and calls handlers
13:02:34  <KUDr> so Tron probably meant to process them directly, not via global vars
13:02:44  <KUDr> which i agree would be the best
13:03:02  <Tron_> well
13:03:05  <Tron_> you want to do
13:03:25  <peter1138> call HandleKeypress directly?
13:03:40  <Tron_> GenericLoop() { ev = PopEvent(generic_queue); switch (ev) {} }
13:03:50  <peter1138> heh
13:04:30  <Tron_> and in the backends: SDL_Stuff() { SDL_ev = PopSDLEvent(); PushGenericEvent(TranslateEvent(SDL_ev); }
13:04:51  <Tron_> i think that's overcomplicated
13:05:02  <Tron_> why not just have:
13:05:19  <KUDr> peter1138: yes, from event loops (different in each driver)
13:05:20  <Tron_> GenericLoop() { ev = PopEvent(); switch (ev) {} }
13:05:35  <Tron_> and every backend implements PopEvent()
13:06:01  <KUDr> Tron: PopEvent() <- must be implemented 3x
13:06:11  <KUDr> or 4x (with dedicated)
13:06:28  <KUDr> And i can do only 1 (win32)
13:07:09  <KUDr> but change storing value into global vars to storing into queue is simpler
13:07:22  <Nigel_> openttd is adictive
13:07:28  <KUDr> because all handlers are already there
13:07:36  <Nigel_> on that note, i'm off to bed
13:07:44  <Darkvater> so Popevent() would be OS-specific?
13:07:47  <KUDr> (OS based handlers)
13:08:00  <Darkvater> Nigel_: cheat!
13:08:14  <KUDr> i think that PopEvent() must be OS specific in Tron's case
13:09:16  <KUDr> so i would rather call HandleKeypress() directly from the OS specific driver->loop()
13:09:46  <KUDr> instead of storing events into global vars
13:09:59  <Tron_> KUDr> Tron: PopEvent() <- must be implemented 3x <--- poping events from the specific queues and reinserting them into the generic queue, too
13:10:25  <KUDr> this code is there already
13:10:29  <Darkvater> so what would PopEvent() actually do? Get the unhandled event queue from the OS (if it has such a facility) and process that?
13:10:52  <KUDr> so i need to replace _event = blabla with HandleEvent(blabla)
13:10:57  <KUDr> nothing else
13:11:27  <KUDr> Darkvater: unhandled event (one)
13:11:46  <KUDr> and yes, process it
13:11:55  <KUDr> or return it
13:12:03  <KUDr> in Tron's case
13:13:16  <KUDr> Tron: 'reinserting them into the generic queue' << you are right here so i would suggest to handle them directly
13:13:34  <KUDr> by calling handlers from OS specific loops
13:13:35  * Darkvater is probably too stupid to understand it at this point
13:14:02  <KUDr> The only problem is that those loops are now in OS-specific code
13:14:22  <KUDr> so we now call this OK specific loop
13:14:55  <KUDr> and then we handle some of the events stored by this loop
13:15:04  <KUDr> and some of the we miss
13:15:49  <KUDr> heh: OK specific <- OS specific
13:19:29  <peter1138> hmm
13:19:46  <peter1138> iso8859-15 -> utf-8 diff: 6.5MB
13:20:09  <peter1138> 68k lines
13:20:29  <KUDr> biggest patch ever :)
13:20:31  <Darkvater> commit #1 after merge
13:20:44  <Celestar> commit after merge?
13:20:53  <Darkvater> yes
13:22:41  <Celestar> what merge?
13:23:04  <Darkvater> guess :)
13:23:07  <Darkvater> 14:19 < peter1138> iso8859-15 -> utf-8 diff: 6.5MB
13:23:23  * Darkvater thinks Celestar is lost as well
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13:30:21  <peter1138> hmm
13:33:12  * Celestar punches Darkvater
13:33:12  <Celestar> :P
13:33:38  <Celestar> hm
13:33:48  <peter1138> now that wasn't very nice
13:34:01  <Celestar> this Ares V is quite big a launch vehicle :o
13:34:41  <peter1138> why do people want to be able to build cities ingame?
13:34:49  <Celestar>
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13:34:59  <Celestar> peter1138: maybe they ought to play Civ?
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13:36:22  <Celestar> the shuttle really looks tinyish
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13:42:22  <Brianetta> Orion++
13:42:38  <Brianetta> Shame they're using SRBs
13:42:40  <Celestar> Orion is only the capsule
13:42:49  <Brianetta> Celestar: Only Orion is interesting
13:42:52  <Celestar> well, the SRBs are not really elegant, but proven
13:42:58  <Brianetta> SRBs are reliable, but bumpy
13:43:15  <Brianetta> and their only abort mode is ka-boom
13:43:19  <Celestar> There is the option of developing LRBs later on
13:43:38  <Brianetta> It'll only ever be an option
13:43:41  <Brianetta> cost...
13:44:06  <Brianetta> cheaper to build a container with suspension
13:44:14  <Celestar> Constellation is not about development, constellation is about exploration
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13:44:30  <Celestar> Orion is Apollo on steriods :P
13:44:42  <Brianetta> Apollo with wings!
13:44:48  <Brianetta> and passenger seats!
13:44:49  <Celestar> there will be no wings
13:44:52  <Brianetta> and autpilot!
13:45:03  <Brianetta> solar wings
13:45:07  <Celestar> Wings are the single most stupid thing to bring to space.
13:45:27  <Zevensoft> not really
13:45:27  <Brianetta> Most stupid thing to attach to a house, too
13:45:31  <Brianetta> but houses can have wings
13:45:33  <Zevensoft> if you put solar panels on them
13:45:44  <Zevensoft> ;)
13:45:54  <Brianetta> Zevensoft: ...which is what they're doing
13:45:57  <Celestar> Zevensoft: that is a solar panel. a Wing generates lift.
13:46:04  <Celestar> when there's air around ....
13:46:07  <Zevensoft> not all wings do
13:46:08  <Brianetta> Celestar: No.  There is more than one definition for that word.
13:46:19  <Brianetta> Like the house example I just gave
13:46:30  <Brianetta> Ew, this tea's frigid
13:46:38  <Zevensoft> I never saw the point in long stations
13:46:41  <Celestar> I'm talking about airplane wings.
13:46:44  <Zevensoft> isnt there a station speed limit?
13:46:46  <Celestar> like the shuttle has.
13:46:49  <Brianetta> Celestar: I wasn't, and I started this
13:47:06  <Zevensoft> the shuttle has them for landing
13:47:27  <Celestar> Zevensoft: the shuttle mainly has them for RTLS and AOA, NOT for landing.
13:47:36  <Celestar> the landing was just a "nice to have" feature
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13:48:06  <Brianetta>
13:48:10  <hylej> Zevensoft: you can run full speed through a station
13:48:14  <Celestar> and RTLS and AOA are totally stupid (plus have never been used)
13:48:35  <hylej> regarding that, when do we get bendy stations?
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13:48:55  <Celestar> hylej: when you code them
13:48:59  <Zevensoft> I reiterate, the shuttle has them for landing
13:49:21  <Brianetta> I think the Shuttle would have trouble landing safely without its wings...
13:49:26  <Zevensoft> Angle of attack = involved in landing
13:49:26  <Celestar> well
13:49:46  <Celestar> Yet you can return safely to earth without wings. It's been done iirc
13:50:08  <Brianetta> Of course - a capsule and a parachute are enough
13:50:20  <Brianetta> It just couldn't be done with a shuttle
13:50:21  <Celestar> and weigh less and are much more reliable
13:50:27  <Zevensoft> you can reuse a shuttle
13:50:35  <Celestar> you can reuse a capsule as well
13:50:36  <Brianetta> Zevensoft: Doesn't make it cost effective
13:50:39  <Zevensoft> not for takeoff
13:50:41  <Celestar> Orion will be reused
13:50:48  <Brianetta> Orion is designed to be reused five to ten times
13:50:58  <Celestar> possibly more even
13:51:08  <Brianetta> Possibly.
13:51:14  <Brianetta> Depends how shaken up they get.
13:51:21  <Celestar> yah
13:51:31  <Brianetta> I imagine the frames will be stressed beyond what they consider safe
13:51:37  <Brianetta> certainly for the first few
13:51:53  <Zevensoft> they need alternate launch methods
13:51:59  <Celestar> Zevensoft: options?
13:52:03  <Brianetta> Shenzhou is looking like the best ting
13:52:13  <hylej> teleport the stuff to space
13:52:17  <Brianetta> Orbital module can be left autonomously powered after return
13:52:27  <Brianetta> Space elevator (:
13:52:31  <Zevensoft> the whole rocket from ground zero puts too much stress on the frame
13:52:37  <Brianetta> Arthur C. Clarke ++
13:52:42  <Celestar> we need Scramjets
13:52:42  <Zevensoft> hehe space elevator
13:52:53  <Celestar> but that will not happen quickly
13:52:58  <Brianetta> If ever
13:53:08  <Brianetta> It's too much like a good idea
13:53:14  <Zevensoft> we have scramjets though, just only on military planes
13:53:16  <Brianetta> like fuel cell cars
13:53:39  <Celestar> Zevensoft: we have them on military rockets
13:54:28  <Celestar> they not really reliable and not really what I would want on a man-rated vehicle (yet)
13:54:55  <Zevensoft> there are worse things to have on a man-rated vehicle surely
13:55:09  <Celestar> yes. Wings.
13:55:26  <Zevensoft> lol when you said that I thought of a car with wings for some reason
13:55:35  <Celestar> he he
13:55:44  <Celestar> the Shuttle was one big Air-Force-brainfart
13:56:01  <Zevensoft> the shuttle is a good make believe idea
13:56:10  <Zevensoft> "lets build a plane to go to space!"
13:56:24  <Celestar> the Shuttle was planned for 50 launches a year
13:56:27  <Celestar> not 4
13:56:57  <Zevensoft> then they let feature creep in, and ended up strapping a dud hull in the shape of a funny plane to a massive fuel tank and booster rockets
13:57:43  <Zevensoft> "we now have a plane that goes to space yay"
13:58:12  <Zevensoft> "what do you mean 'how could someone with this idea go to the moon?'?"
14:00:43  <Celestar> he he
14:01:44  <Zevensoft> I find it funny that they "cant go to the moon with todays technology"
14:01:51  <Celestar> well they can
14:01:58  <Zevensoft> how does a company go backwards
14:02:03  <Celestar> but NASA seems to have misplaced the Saturn V blueprints
14:02:08  <Zevensoft> lol
14:02:16  <Celestar> at least, no one knows where they are
14:02:22  <Zevensoft> saturn V's were cheaper to send up in fuel
14:02:31  <Celestar> Fuel IS cheap
14:02:52  <Zevensoft> unlike bananas
14:03:00  <Celestar> I mean an RS-68 engine is e6
14:03:09  <Celestar> and the Ares V has 5 of them
14:03:10  <Zevensoft> not that expensive really
14:03:11  <Brianetta> Celestar: Not to mention all the staff have retired...
14:03:20  <Zevensoft> 0 mil is pretty cheap
14:03:25  <Celestar> so you care little about what the fuel costs
14:03:36  <Zevensoft> hrm
14:03:52  <Zevensoft> I'm surprised australia hasnt got a space program if its that cheap
14:04:00  <Zevensoft> no need I suppose
14:04:27  <Prof_Frink> Zevensoft: Kangaroos can't jump *that* high...
14:04:35  <Celestar> the most expensive stuff about space flight is manpower
14:04:42  <Celestar> what amazed me
14:04:59  <Brianetta> I think the most expensive part is tendering to commercial ventures
14:05:06  <Celestar> The Apollo missions needed 9 man in Mission Control for two vehicles.
14:05:21  <Patrick_> no, the expensive part is the billion dollars on materials
14:05:30  <Celestar> The shuttle needs 3 times as many, then tho it is only one vehicle and IT support in infinetly more capable.
14:05:37  <Celestar> Patrick_: materials are cheap
14:05:41  <Celestar> men are expensive
14:05:45  <Zevensoft> Celestar: back then people were smart, technology was dumb
14:05:54  <Zevensoft> these days its the opposite :(
14:05:59  <hylej> smart people in front of dumb terminals...
14:05:59  <Celestar> The shuttle workforce is 44000 people at the present time
14:06:05  <Celestar> hylej: yeah ...
14:06:05  <Patrick_> hmm, I guess you're right
14:06:09  <Patrick_> it's all design
14:06:09  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
14:06:18  <Patrick_> but some parts are custom-made, etc
14:06:23  <Patrick_> but that's again manpower
14:06:27  <Brianetta> Buran++
14:06:35  <Zevensoft> human error is the funniest catchphrase in space exploration :D
14:06:40  <Brianetta> It looked like the shuttle, but it was better thought out
14:06:51  <hylej> ejector seats
14:06:58  <Brianetta>
14:07:03  <Zevensoft> "hrm why did the mars <probe name> crash?" "human error."
14:07:05  <Brianetta> Buran could fly unmanned
14:07:22  <Brianetta> and it didn't lift iself, requiring a huge fuel tank, which required in turn a couple of SRBs.
14:07:42  <Zevensoft> I liked that brittish lander, that was designed to crash land (it inflated giant baloons to bounce to safety)
14:07:42  <Brianetta> It was strapped to an Energia launch vehicle, which could be used alone for much heavier payloads.
14:07:55  <hylej> Zevensoft: beagle 2?
14:07:56  <Zevensoft> they ended up misguiding it by a few meters, and it hit a cliff face
14:08:01  <Zevensoft> maybe
14:08:15  <Zevensoft> turns out cliff face = not what its designed to crash into hehe
14:08:15  <Brianetta> Don't diss the Beagle
14:08:26  <Brianetta> The guy with a beard who invented it was crying
14:08:34  <Zevensoft> yeah it was an awesome idea
14:08:39  <Brianetta> He's from the South West somewhere
14:08:56  <Celestar> well Orion will have "airbags" as well.
14:09:00  <Zevensoft> come in at a shallow angle and crash it with decent cushions
14:09:22  <Brianetta> I think they should try to land it on an arrestor cable with a hook
14:09:32  <Brianetta> The cable would have to be high
14:09:37  <Brianetta> to avoid bottoming out
14:11:26  <Zevensoft> hrm the 32bpp branch seems to be dedicated 32bpp :(
14:11:36  * Brianetta has Buran as his wallpaper, and a toy Comumbia / Eagle duo on top of his computer
14:11:52  <Brianetta> Columbia, even
14:11:55  <Brianetta> Apollo 11
14:11:59  * Celestar has an A380 model
14:12:11  <Celestar> maybe it'll have EIS one day
14:12:12  <Brianetta> Boo, that can't escape Earth
14:12:48  <Celestar> well it can't even leave factory :P
14:12:57  *** Netsplit <-> quits: Born_Acorn, Ailure, helb
14:12:57  <glx> lol
14:12:58  <Brianetta> Doors too small?
14:12:58  * Prof_Frink used to have an Airfix Saturn V
14:13:15  <peter1138> Zevensoft: you want both?
14:13:21  <Celestar> Brianetta: no, cable length problems
14:13:48  <Brianetta> Perhaps they should use Pikka's AV8 set
14:14:22  <Celestar> Apparently it was an IBM/Dassault problem
14:14:32  <Celestar> two different CATIA versions at different places
14:14:32  <Zevensoft> well I dont see why it cant choose between them
14:15:16  <Brianetta> I still think bigger aircraft is lunacy
14:15:25  <Zevensoft> I'll look into it more
14:15:26  <Brianetta> lighter than air is the sensible route
14:15:29  <Celestar> Brianetta: ask Heathrow.
14:15:33  <Brianetta> but, like so much, it's too much like a good idea.
14:15:35  <Prof_Frink> ...bigger?
14:15:35  <peter1138> airships :D
14:15:44  <Prof_Frink> giant catapults.
14:15:50  <Brianetta> Airships.
14:15:53  <peter1138> vacuum tubes
14:16:14  <peter1138> futurama style
14:16:21  <Brianetta> If they run out of fuel, they don't require a god-like effort of piloting to get to Earth safely.
14:16:29  <hylej> flying aircraft carriers
14:16:31  <Brianetta> They're quiet
14:16:38  <Prof_Frink> hylej: Cloudbase!
14:16:50  <Brianetta> They are very fuel efficient - no work is required to lift them
14:17:05  <Brianetta> Well, the work is done by the atmoshpere
14:17:21  <Zevensoft> true
14:17:32  <peter1138> and av8 has one :D
14:17:40  <Brianetta> AV8 needs futuristic ones
14:17:44  <Brianetta> Pikka uses future steam
14:17:51  <hylej> future steam!
14:17:51  <Brianetta> so should have seen future airships
14:18:03  <hylej> is it any different from past steam?
14:18:06  <Brianetta> hylej:
14:18:13  <Brianetta> It certainly is
14:18:24  <Brianetta> The driver gets a comfortable cab, for starters
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14:19:03  <Zevensoft> diesels need more exposure damnit
14:19:13  <Brianetta> Why?
14:19:22  <Zevensoft> because they're more prevalent in real life
14:19:29  <Brianetta> Bombardier's making a big enough impact with the Voyager
14:19:30  <Zevensoft> and people go straight for the Sh40s
14:19:49  <hylej> because in ottd elrails are cheap
14:19:49  <peter1138> people also use eurostars for freight
14:20:01  <hylej> cough. enforced wagon speed limits.
14:20:02  <Prof_Frink> Zevensoft: Nah, 125
14:20:03  <Brianetta> Well, just wait until the electrified tracks cost more
14:20:20  <Zevensoft> anyone here tried the css global market beta?
14:20:32  <Brianetta> the what now?
14:20:37  <Prof_Frink> Does IE7 support it?
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14:20:45  <Zevensoft> counter strike source beta with global economy
14:20:51  <Brianetta> oh
14:21:01  * Brianetta is not enlightened by the explanation
14:21:06  <Zevensoft> basically the price of weapons in the game changes with the global economy
14:21:09  <Prof_Frink> We really need fewer things called css.
14:21:14  <Zevensoft> yah D:
14:21:27  <hylej> cs:source abbreviation is cs:s
14:21:28  <hylej> use it
14:21:33  <Zevensoft> like what microsoft think is css and what w3c know css is
14:21:39  <Zevensoft> :P
14:21:44  * Brianetta is off this evening to see a lecture by Hinksey and Bonners (:
14:21:49  <Brianetta> I can't wait
14:21:58  *** Turski [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
14:21:59  <Brianetta> Those guys are, like, superstar celebs
14:22:05  <Zevensoft> we should use an economy system for buying vehicles in ottd (patch toggle of course)
14:22:06  <peter1138> who?
14:22:22  <Brianetta> Hinksey
14:22:23  <Brianetta> and Bonners
14:22:55  <Brianetta> ...
14:22:57  <Brianetta> Alan Hinkes and Chris Bonnington
14:23:07  <Prof_Frink> Zevensoft: MS css is Content Scrambling System
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14:24:24  <Zevensoft> lol :)
14:24:31  <hylej> Zevensoft: o ya, the best locos get reaaaally expensive
14:24:31  <Zevensoft> so true
14:26:00  <Celestar> wow
14:26:33  <Celestar> Mercedes-Benz just offered me one year free insurance :o
14:26:42  <Patrick_> neat
14:26:44  <Patrick_> why?
14:27:03  <Celestar> because my car comes late, and I would like to switch from another insurance company to them.
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14:39:47  <peter1138> oh no, it's the corn baron
14:41:35  <Darkvater> eek
14:45:37  <peter1138> indeed
14:48:13  <Darkvater>
14:48:19  <Darkvater> why did I miss out on this thread?
14:48:24  <Darkvater> awesome stationes
14:48:25  <Darkvater> -e
14:49:12  <Darkvater> \o/
14:49:48  <hylej> fairly coo
14:50:00  <Patrick_> nice
14:50:15  <Patrick_> what about making those little undergroundy bits proper tunnel entrance/exits?
14:50:30  <Patrick_> it wouldn't be massively unbalancing because nobody cares about roads >:)
14:50:44  <hylej> nah, id rather have freeform tunnels
14:50:58  <peter1138> Darkvater: bahhh. it's a mockup :(
14:51:38  <Darkvater> that does not cut down on the wow-factor
14:51:49  <peter1138> true
14:52:40  <Darkvater> so strange that for years MB was the only newgrf artist, and how many there are now
14:53:18  <hylej> what
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14:54:07  <peter1138> hmm
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14:54:43  <Zevensoft> woah
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15:09:45  <Zevensoft>
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15:15:23  <Patrick_> chocolate covered bacon.
15:15:25  <Patrick_> my life is over
15:15:28  <peter1138> o_O
15:15:29  <Sacro> :O WHERE
15:15:57  <peter1138> "This was great, mainly because tar is much cooler than grf"
15:15:58  <peter1138> wtf?
15:16:08  <Zevensoft> ?
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15:19:46  <Darkvater> :O these bank people...I wonder what they do at work
15:20:06  <Darkvater> I just got an email from someone over at asking about openttd and pocketpc support
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15:24:06  <peter1138> heh
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15:25:04  <Darkvater> !openttd commit
15:25:09  <_42_> Commit by peter1138 :: r7135 /branches/utf8/ (4 files) (2006-11-13 12:35:48 UTC)
15:25:11  <_42_> [utf8] -Codechange: Add conversion of custom names from iso8859-15 to utf-8, with a savegame bump (to 37)
15:25:25  <Darkvater> < home-bound
15:26:49  <peter1138> and then what?
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15:30:53  <Zevensoft> hrm a table I use for bilinear filtering would be useful for 8bpp AA in medium zoom mode
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15:32:08  <peter1138> uh oh ;p
15:33:29  <peter1138> it's easy to modify the freetype routine to output 8 bit greyscale glyphs...
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15:58:21  <Zevensoft>
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16:28:22  <xyz> hi
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16:28:47  <xyz> is it possible to set a massive replacement for AI payers vehicles?
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16:35:42  <Darkvater> /dev/sda7              58G   58G     0 100% /public
16:35:45  <Darkvater> ok, not good
16:36:07  <Darkvater> peter1138: then I'm home
16:36:19  <Darkvater> I know, mind-boggling, isn't it?
16:36:45  <peter1138> hmm
16:37:07  <Darkvater> (c)
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16:38:21  <Darkvater> xyz: what do you mean?
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16:47:36  <xyz> i didn't do any documentation on it, but i have an idea on how to make the AI update his vehicle using masive replace
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16:48:26  <xyz> and i was wandering if i can use it foe AI players
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16:49:47  <peter1138> well, autoreplace should work for the AI too
16:49:57  <peter1138> whether the AI understands what's going on is another matter
16:50:14  <Darkvater> see ^
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16:55:15  <xyz> i'm gona try to teach him
16:56:12  <xyz> :) my AI is carying livestock with buses
16:56:44  <Patrick_> moooooo! beep beep
16:56:52  <Patrick_> I assume it's failing
16:57:47  <Naksu> tauren passengers
16:57:56  <hylej> :o
16:58:28  <peter1138> xyz: ....
16:58:32  <xyz> it is refiting a bus from the long vehicle grf
16:58:33  <peter1138> xyz: in trunk or with a patch?
16:58:57  <peter1138> oh, with newgrf
16:59:05  <xyz> iep
16:59:31  <Naksu> AI belongs on the short bus
17:00:03  <hylej> :D
17:00:08  <hylej> bus refitted for livestock
17:00:09  <hylej> baa.
17:04:59  <peter1138> should be fixed with the newcargos support i have here
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17:08:34  <Sacro> its as bad as using TANKERS for livestock (points at peter1138)
17:09:31  <peter1138> tankers full of MILK
17:09:39  <hylej> ha
17:09:44  <Zevensoft> milk and win
17:09:49  <Patrick_> hehe, I remember during the testing of the refit code
17:09:51  <peter1138> milk comes from cows, you know
17:10:02  <peter1138> it's fatty sweat
17:10:03  <Patrick_> before certain ... restrictions were introduced, I remember people using planes to carry coal
17:10:04  <hylej> buses refitted to carry oil
17:10:06  <peter1138> and we love it
17:10:17  <peter1138> Patrick_: and now they complain they can't
17:10:20  <Patrick_> concorde! with, uuh ... a steam engine
17:10:20  <hylej> Patrick_: why restricted
17:10:26  <Patrick_> hylej: it's retarded ...
17:10:30  <hylej> how so
17:10:47  <hylej> if you want to move coal with planes.. why the hell not
17:11:33  <Patrick_> in reality, the limits on planes are mass.
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17:11:42  <Patrick_> a pax is economical per unit mass.
17:11:44  <Patrick_> a ton of coal isn't
17:11:55  <Patrick_> you're effectively carrying over 10x as much for the same return
17:12:19  <Patrick_> for trains, we gloss this over since support equipment brings the carriage weight up to about right
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17:21:46  <Sionide> hmm small eye candy thing... how about doing a helicopter icon for the "<Heliport Name><icon>" bit?
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17:38:03  <peter1138> right
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17:46:33  <Wolf01> ello
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17:47:20  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7136 /branches/utf8/misc.c: [utf8] -Fix (r7135): Euro is 0x20AC, not 0x20A4
17:47:40  <Darkvater> Belugas: ping of life
17:48:24  <Wolf01> mmm what happened to the svn site?
17:48:50  <Darkvater> buggy
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18:20:41  <Wolf01> there is a way to execute a script in a linux shell without the sh or ./ ???
18:21:10  <glx> add . to path
18:21:33  <peter1138> there's a reason . isn't in your path by default, heh
18:21:36  <Wolf01> now i use "sh script parameter"
18:22:07  <Patrick_> peter, it's a bad idea
18:22:27  <Patrick_> don't ever do it as root, security risk
18:23:16  <Belugas> Darkvater: pong from OutSideWalk
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18:45:21  <Wolf01> can somebody give me an hand with a simple script?
18:45:21  <Wolf01> i need to list the music folder without write all the path, and if i specify a song name with the same script as a parameter it runs the madplay with the full path of the song...
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19:11:09  <Nigel_> Darkvater, i'm no cheat ;)
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19:13:27  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
19:13:39  <Bjarni> hi lunatics
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19:14:30  <Bjarni> lws1984: you are 13 sec late
19:14:46  <lws1984> Bjarni: hm?
19:14:57  <SpComb> Logs:
19:14:57  <Bjarni> !logs
19:15:13  * Bjarni hides
19:15:28  <lws1984> aah
19:15:29  <lws1984> :p
19:15:43  <lws1984> btw, Bjarni, did you see my compiling issue in the MiniIN thread?
19:16:03  <Bjarni> I don't think so
19:16:24  <lws1984> just wondernig, as i'm not entirely sure why it fails there
19:16:30  <Darkvater> OMgz he's back
19:16:36  <Bjarni> who?
19:16:38  <Darkvater> hmm why is win32 release mode broken?
19:17:41  <Bjarni> lws1984: looks like a borked makefile
19:17:47  <Darkvater> Error	1	error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol __station_pool	newgrf_engine.obj
19:17:50  <lws1984> Bjarni: uhoh
19:17:51  <Darkvater> this smells of a tron
19:17:54  <lws1984> hmm..
19:18:18  <Bjarni> this should be somewhat easy to fix (hopefully)
19:18:45  <lws1984> welll, it'll have to wait a bit
19:18:47  *** lws1984 is now known as lws|Away
19:18:57  <lws|Away> thanks, though
19:20:22  <Darkvater> hmm /me rebuilds project
19:23:49  <Wolf01> if i do "ls folder > file" there is an option to show also the file list
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19:24:08  <Darkvater> there, better
19:24:29  <Bjarni> lws|Away: MiniIN compiles just fine here. It looks like a user error :P
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19:25:35  <Bjarni> Darkvater: when do we plan to release?
19:25:37  <Bjarni> I forgot :(
19:26:20  <Darkvater> when the moon goes blue
19:26:24  <Bjarni> and I need to do something about the build windows (though I'm pretty sure I don't have time to do everything I planned to do before a release)
19:26:49  <Darkvater> hmm, leave the build windows, I'm sorting them out :)
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19:27:00  <Bjarni> ok, maybe I can make time to finish it before we release :P
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19:27:27  <Darkvater> if you want though, Bjarni, you can come up with GUI concepts for #7 in
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19:27:45  <Darkvater> orudge: !
19:27:50  <Darkvater> orudge: KUDr  :)
19:28:46  <Bjarni> hmm
19:29:21  <Bjarni> a "build" window without a build button, but with a dropdown menu for track selection/vehicle type selection
19:30:06  <Darkvater> Bjarni: that is supposed to be the 'vehicle list' window
19:30:26  <KUDr> Darvater
19:30:45  <KUDr> Darkvater :)
19:30:53  <orudge> Darkvater!
19:30:56  <orudge> I did that.
19:31:00  <Darkvater> good!
19:31:01  <orudge> I gave KUDr the title yesterday
19:31:02  <orudge> or earlier
19:31:03  <orudge> or whenever
19:31:04  <orudge> yesterday, iirc
19:31:11  <Darkvater> why wasn't I informed?
19:31:17  * Darkvater is very cross at someone
19:31:20  <Darkvater> orudge: OS/2!
19:31:25  <Darkvater> orudge: cookies!
19:31:25  <KUDr> orudge: thanks, but still not in group ;)
19:31:50  <orudge> KUDr: No, I never said you would be, Darkvater asked for a title
19:31:54  <orudge> I'd prefer not to have toooo many moderators
19:32:07  <KUDr> ok
19:32:10  <orudge> Darkvater: hm, I need to get Virtual PC set up for that
19:32:13  <orudge> Darkvater: cookies? yum
19:32:20  <Darkvater> orudge: virtual pc!
19:32:49  <orudge> Yes. That's how I did all the OS/2 stuff :p
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19:32:57  <lws|Away> Bjarni: actually it's working now after I re-svn'd it
19:33:01  *** lws|Away is now known as lws1984
19:33:34  <Bjarni> lws1984: ok, you just wanted me to waste time updating my ancient checkout and recompile it :P
19:34:16  <lws1984> Bjarni: no, sorry, it's just that it wasn't done compiling at the time and it had frozen right at where it failed last time
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19:34:33  <lws1984> so i went to get my lunch
19:34:39  <lws1984> and came back to a finished OpenTTD
19:35:42  <Darkvater> orudge: lol
19:35:53  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r7137 /trunk/video/win32_v.c:
19:35:53  <CIA-1> -Codechange: [win32] Use windows function in main loop to check if we have pressed ALT
19:35:53  <CIA-1>  (for ALT+TAB) instead of magic global _pressed_key from input-loop. (KUDr)
19:35:57  <Darkvater> orudge: the only guy with Os/2 and even he doesn't use it, only from vm
19:36:17  <orudge> No, not the only guy
19:36:22  <orudge> RobC has it, and uses it as his primary system ;)
19:36:26  <orudge> I only really ported it for him
19:36:28  <orudge> and out of interest
19:36:32  <Bjarni> oh btw, I closed a bug report. It was for 0.4.8 and it's fixed in svn, so it was likely the fastest bug report I ever closed ;)
19:36:38  <orudge> I build it on Windows, and test it on Virtual PC :p
19:37:15  <Darkvater> ottd must be the friendliest program ever; porting it (officially) for one person only
19:38:11  <Bjarni> that was my original plan when I went into developing
19:38:20  <Bjarni> porting it locally for myself
19:38:31  *** Purno [] has quit [Quit: Purno has spoken]
19:38:42  <Bjarni> then ludde said: give me a patch and I will make you the porter
19:38:56  <Bjarni> and look how many hours that cost me :s
19:39:01  <Bjarni> :P
19:39:08  <Darkvater> haha, poor sod ;p
19:40:31  <Bjarni> hmm
19:40:47  <Bjarni> #391.... I don't really get what the problem is
19:42:23  <Darkvater> just load the guy's game
19:43:52  <Bjarni> I was about to, but then I checked my working dir for local modifications and decided that they take priority. It's a fix (almost finished) for a rare crash related to not closing all windows belonging to a player, that leaves the game
19:44:16  <Bjarni> I think that one should be added before a release even though it's not in the list
19:44:47  <Darkvater> I've never heard of that bug
19:45:00  <Bjarni> pretty rare
19:45:08  <Darkvater> FS#?
19:45:16  <Bjarni> not on flyspray
19:45:19  <Darkvater> SF#?
19:45:22  <Bjarni> too rare for people to notice :P
19:45:53  <Bjarni> not on SF either
19:46:18  <Darkvater> when does it happen?
19:47:08  <Bjarni> open a vehicle list window for another player (not the general one, but a station one or something, just not the general one) and wait for that player to go bankrupt while the window is still open
19:47:42  <Bjarni> I think I finished the fix. Now I just need to verify it
19:48:11  <Darkvater> ah, a bug introduced by you :)
19:48:39  <Darkvater> or perhaps not...
19:48:41  <Darkvater> hehe
19:49:03  <Bjarni> I think it have been there since the station vehicle lists were introduced
19:49:49  <Darkvater> what does it crash on?
19:49:54  <Bjarni> not sure though. I consider it more important that it's there now and that it should be fixed now. A revision number for when it was introduce makes little interest once it's fixed
19:50:20  <Bjarni> accessing the player in question for the window and since that player is no more...
19:50:37  <Darkvater> please do find the revision it got broken in if possible, and put that in the commit log. It makes it that much easier to update changelog.txt
19:50:39  <Bjarni> the bug is actually failure to close window when it should close all the windows for that player
19:52:17  <Darkvater> he, gotta go, bbl
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20:29:19  <lws1984> Bjarni: you still here? turns out the compile failed the same way
20:29:57  <peter1138> hmm
20:30:18  <Bjarni> hmm
20:30:34  <Bjarni> something is not right here
20:30:36  <Bjarni> Transmitting file data .....
20:30:40  <lws1984> my friend closed the compile window after the error >:(
20:30:45  <Bjarni> it said that for the past 3 minutes now :(
20:30:54  <Bjarni> lws1984: :P
20:31:07  <Bjarni> lws1984: what do you do to compile?
20:31:12  <Bjarni> "make" should do it
20:31:13  <lws1984> Bjarni: well, not so much "friend" as it was "boss"
20:31:19  <lws1984> Bjarni: yes, i do the svn bit, then make openttd
20:31:22  <Bjarni> no arguments should be used at all
20:31:39  <lws1984> none at all?
20:31:43  <Bjarni> no
20:31:46  <lws1984> hmmm..
20:31:47  <Bjarni> just make
20:32:07  <lws1984> ah, k then
20:32:11  <Bjarni> then it will use the first one it finds, which happens to be "all"
20:33:15  <lws1984> aha, that appears to work now
20:33:17  <lws1984> adding data files..
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20:33:59  <CIA-1> bjarni * r7138 /trunk/ (economy.c player.h players.c window.c window.h):
20:33:59  <CIA-1> -Fix: [vehicle list windows] fixed a rare crash where having some (not all) vehicle list windows open for a player, that goes bankrupt would crash the game
20:33:59  <CIA-1> -Codechange: closing all windows for a player will now loop all windows and close those, which got the player as caption instead of having a list of windows to close
20:34:06  <Bjarni> finally
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20:35:12  <lws1984> aha, it works
20:35:13  <lws1984> thanks
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21:02:47  <peter1138> erk
21:02:54  <peter1138> 2000hp engines carrying 950t
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21:03:50  <peter1138> 500t of wood, 450t of train
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21:16:05  <Born_Acorn> Yay ise wins
21:16:30  *** ChrisM87 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:17:11  <peter1138> what does it win?
21:19:02  <Born_Acorn> A prise!
21:19:18  <Born_Acorn> :p
21:19:39  <peter1138> yay
21:21:33  <Born_Acorn> peter1138s of Rohan! what news is there from the newgrfmark?
21:25:11  <peter1138> newgrfmark?
21:25:26  <Noldo> drop mark
21:25:39  <Born_Acorn> High water level mark.
21:26:06  <Noldo> how high's the water mamma
21:26:17  <Tron> peter1138: he has been reading to much LotR
21:26:26  <Tron> s/to/too/
21:26:27  <Born_Acorn> Howhigh is a Chinaman.
21:26:34  <Born_Acorn> bah. Doesn't work in text.
21:26:38  <Born_Acorn> :p
21:26:50  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7139 /branches/utf8/fontcache.c: [utf8] -Codechange: functionize loading of freetype fonts
21:27:04  <Born_Acorn> See, Tron is smart and got the reference!
21:27:24  <peter1138> i'm dumb and didn't :(
21:28:08  * Born_Acorn reassures peter1138 that he can do better next time.
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21:30:59  *** Jhs [] has quit [Quit: cya]
21:32:08  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7140 /branches/utf8/fontcache.c: [utf8] -Codestyle: prefix globals with underscore, and fix a typo in a comment
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21:34:10  <Bjarni> <peter1138>	2000hp engines carrying 950t <-- it's somewhat better than a 500 hp engine pulling 950t
21:34:47  <peter1138> that's true
21:36:25  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
21:36:36  <Belugas_Gone> night all
21:39:46  <Born_Acorn> peter1138. news with newcargos and newindustries? Any screens?
21:39:48  * Born_Acorn must know!
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21:40:55  <smeding> i saw the reference but i'm lazy
21:40:59  <peter1138> newcargos is currently sat at 53KB
21:41:04  * Bjarni informs Born_Acorn
21:41:11  <Bjarni> now you know
21:41:16  <peter1138> which is quite large, really
21:41:33  <Bjarni> oh no
21:41:37  <Born_Acorn> Optimisation needed?
21:41:41  <peter1138> splitting
21:41:43  <Born_Acorn> Or a rewrite?
21:41:44  <Bjarni> peter1138 got a huge change to give us
21:41:48  <Born_Acorn> Splitting. ah.
21:41:54  <Bjarni> now he needs to burn DVDs and mail them to us :(
21:41:54  <peter1138> Bjarni: yes, but not that
21:42:17  <peter1138> Bjarni: full conversion to utf8 is 6.5MB
21:43:14  <Bjarni> well, changing the string system really touch a lot of the code
21:44:07  <Born_Acorn> Even the "don't touch me" parts?
21:44:19  <peter1138> Bjarni: not really
21:44:22  <peter1138> that's just the langs ;)
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21:51:02  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r7141 /branches/utf8/ (53 files in 5 dirs): [utf8] -Sync with r7087:r7140 from trunk
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21:58:40  <peter1138> hmm, 109KB
22:09:02  *** Smoovious [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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22:10:56  <Bjarni> at this rate, it will be too big for my HD in only 195 years
22:11:02  <Bjarni> you are developing too fast :(
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22:16:30  <Born_Acorn> 109KB! Oh noes!
22:16:49  * Born_Acorn only has 108KB left until computer explosion!
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22:20:13  <peter1138> nod
22:20:29  * peter1138 hmms at bdf fonts
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22:42:01  <kampasky> My my, yet another IRC network? :)
22:42:03  <kampasky> Hi.
22:43:30  <kampasky> peter1138: Did you try getting csdset to work? Multiple vehicles there seem to crash openttd. :-(
22:44:15  <kampasky> My INF skills are already somewhat rusty and I want to avoid my usual situation that when wanting to get some relaxation and play a game I end up hacking it so that it works properly. ;-)
22:44:37  <kampasky> But I suppose I have little choice...
22:45:26  <kampasky> Is there already something cooler for decompiling GRFs than my hack?
22:45:43  <glx> grfcodec ?
22:46:30  <kampasky> oh, so yes, cool
22:48:42  <kampasky> seems like there's no huge leap since 0.9.6 though
22:51:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Darkvater> when the moon goes blue <- FYI, the next "blue moon" is on 30th june 2007 ;)
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22:52:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> ("blue moon" being the 2nd full moon in one month)
23:00:25  <Smoovious> it'd be cool if it really turned blue
23:04:13  <Bjarni> Smoovious: well, if you do drugs, it might turn blue, but I would not recommend a field test
23:04:23  <peter1138> kampasky: url for the set?
23:04:30  *** Zevensoft [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:05:43  <Vikthor> kampasky: Isnt it this one?
23:09:02  <kampasky> Vikthor: yep
23:09:38  <kampasky> I'm now using 1.4.1, it's bad too; 1.3 looked good but crashed later in the game
23:09:55  <kampasky> peter1138:
23:10:38  <kampasky> seems like they do something ultra-weird with tenders
23:10:44  <Smoovious> doesn't turn blue... just gets blurry
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23:11:08  <peter1138> why can't they just use artic engines like everyone else...
23:12:06  <kampasky> well I'm playing temperate
23:12:39  <glx> artic != arctic :)
23:12:53  <glx> articulated engines
23:12:57  <kampasky> ah :)
23:13:18  * kampasky has no clue about those, either it's too new or (more likely) he already happily forgot
23:13:26  <kampasky> what message tag to use when committing trivial typo fixes in comments? :)
23:13:29  <Sacro> does OpenTTD have artics yet?
23:13:45  * peter1138 slaps Sacro
23:13:55  <peter1138> just how long have you been playing ukrs?
23:14:01  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish]
23:14:07  <Sacro> peter1138: about a year
23:15:55  <peter1138> this set will never work in ottd
23:16:29  <kampasky> are you challenging me? :-)
23:16:33  <peter1138> no
23:16:37  <peter1138> the 387.o is fine
23:16:43  <peter1138> that uses articulated parts
23:17:01  <peter1138> and the 498.o
23:17:10  <peter1138> and, indeed, the 475.1
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23:17:51  <peter1138> 365.o is good to
23:17:53  <peter1138> +O
23:17:58  <kampasky> 434.2 is likely problematic
23:18:09  <kampasky> when the game doesn't crash in build vehicle dialog, it shows noise around this menu item
23:18:35  <peter1138> yeah
23:18:42  <peter1138> all the other steamers abuse dual head
23:19:21  <peter1138> ottd will force the wagons to be between the heads
23:19:41  <peter1138> because that's how dual head engines are supposed to be laid out...
23:20:18  <kampasky> so how comes ttdpatch works?
23:20:37  <kampasky> are there hooks for reordering the vehicles?
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23:21:08  <peter1138> afaik ttdpatch doesn't enforce dual head engine positions
23:21:09  <kampasky> I think there is some callback for attaching a wagon to a vehicle
23:21:21  <peter1138> no
23:21:27  <peter1138> there is an articulated engine callback
23:21:36  <peter1138> that adds extra parts to an engine
23:21:49  <peter1138> and works fine with ottd
23:21:59  <peter1138> the E479.1 is fucked up too
23:22:08  <Smoovious> hey... I haven't tried multi-heading, but last time I tried ttdpatch, the extra engines didn't generate smoke... do they show proper smoke in OTTD?
23:23:06  <peter1138> should do
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23:24:31  <Darkvater> back
23:24:38  <peter1138> mr vator
23:25:37  <Darkvater> I just love how bjarni manages to turn a one-line fix into a full recompile
23:25:47  *** Zahl [] has quit [Quit: YOU! It was you wasn't it!?]
23:25:55  <peter1138> hmm?
23:25:58  <Bjarni> ?
23:27:21  <kampasky> peter1138: still, AIUI if there's a difference in dualhead handling it'll just mean the tender is going to be always the last wagon? it's a bit silly but I don't really care particularily, but it shouldn't crash
23:27:22  <Darkvater> Bjarni: what happened to atomic commits? You did 2 completely different things in that commit
23:27:43  <peter1138> kampasky: it's not the dual head that's crashing
23:27:51  <peter1138> it's the preview sprite
23:28:17  <peter1138> the grf defines a forward facing view but not a rear facing view for the preview
23:28:24  <peter1138> dual head requires both
23:28:45  <peter1138> anyway, it's oob access, so i guess i should fix...
23:30:27  <Smoovious> would be nice to see A/B units too eventually...
23:30:51  <peter1138> hmm?
23:31:00  <Smoovious> maybe push/pull operation would be too much tho?
23:31:09  <Bjarni> 	<Darkvater>	Bjarni: what happened to atomic commits? You did 2 completely different things in that commit <-- no, the codechange was needed to catch all the windows, that needed to be closed
23:31:23  <Smoovious> um... trying to remember the model of the engine that used them... diesel... had the streamlined nose?
23:31:37  <Darkvater> Bjarni: and ChangeWindowOwner was needed because?
23:31:39  <peter1138> push/pull is possible, ukrs uses it
23:31:42  <Smoovious> the A units had a cab, the B units didn't
23:31:50  <peter1138> (ottd doesn't support it, but that's not the point, heh)
23:32:35  <Smoovious> well, push/pull isn't that important... tho I suppose for realism, don't allow flipping direction, and have trains have to go through a wye to turn around or something... :)
23:32:43  <helb> gn
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23:32:52  <kampasky> peter1138: still I don't get it why ttdpatch handles it
23:33:47  <Darkvater> Bjarni: and why was ChangeWindowOwner changed?
23:34:14  <Bjarni> <Darkvater>	Bjarni: and ChangeWindowOwner was needed because? <-- stuff like vehicle windows change caption colour instead of being closed. Since it now works on caption colours, this change needs to be done before closing the windows
23:34:36  <Darkvater> wit the change they do NOT change caption colour
23:34:40  <Darkvater> you continue;
23:35:42  <glx> Darkvater: what do you think about and ?
23:36:12  <Bjarni> they do. I made a list of windows, that should NOT change colour (like window types, that needs to be closed)
23:36:26  <Darkvater> glx: what do they do?
23:36:38  <Darkvater> so why woudln't WC_FINANCES not change colour?
23:36:49  <Darkvater> eh -2nd not
23:37:05  <glx> first diff remove redondancy in saveload dialogs
23:37:32  <glx> 1 load and 1 save instead 3 load and 2 save
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23:38:15  *** lws1984 is now known as lws|Dinner
23:38:18  <glx> second diff disable clone button in vehicle view for not owned vehicles (like for trains)
23:38:36  <Bjarni> <Darkvater>	so why woudln't WC_FINANCES not change colour? <-- because say you are company 0 and you are looking at company 4's finance window and you buy that company, that window should not magically change to your finance window
23:38:39  <Darkvater> ah first only sets the caption
23:38:56  <Darkvater> Bjarni: so what does it do?
23:39:23  <Darkvater> the company is no longer valid, thus it should be closed
23:39:36  <Darkvater> but if it's getting closed nobody gives a fuck what colour it is
23:39:52  <Darkvater> so you can just as well change its colour
23:41:20  <Darkvater> glx: it might be better to set the caption if the default load dialog to STR_NULL to really show you are dynamically changing it
23:41:32  <glx> ok
23:42:02  <Darkvater> and check for out-of-bounds _saveload_caption[] access
23:42:16  <Darkvater> it's caption, not title
23:42:44  <Bjarni> first it change the colours of some windows (vehicle view windows and so on) to the new owner, if any and then it closes all other windows with the closing company set as caption colour
23:43:20  <Bjarni> remember this is called both when you buy a company and when it goes bankrupt
23:43:49  <Darkvater> so now you need 2 functions depending on eachother instead of being independent
23:43:51  <Darkvater> good job
23:44:24  <Bjarni> if the company closes, the changing of colours will not be called
23:45:58  <Darkvater> glx: and what does the second do? only change is_local_player boolean instead of calcing it each time?
23:46:39  <Darkvater> glx: what is the additional widget 11?
23:46:47  <glx> clone button
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23:47:15  <Darkvater> that wasn't disabled?
23:47:16  * Brianetta sighs
23:47:27  <glx> it was only for trains
23:47:40  <Brianetta> That poll on randomi[sz]e just lets us know how ignorant people are of their own language.
23:47:47  <Brianetta> Never mind, eh
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23:48:22  <Vikthor> good night
23:48:49  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:48:53  <Darkvater> glx: is that a bug introduced with xtdwidgets? in 0.4.8 they're disabled
23:49:38  <glx> possible I didn't check 0.4.8
23:51:39  <glx> hmm no only disabled for trains in 0.4.8
23:52:21  <Darkvater> glx: vehicles inside a depot, right?
23:53:07  <glx> yes
23:53:12  <Darkvater> I'm looking at a game in HEAD, following a competitor's bus, but the button doesn't turn enabled when it is inside a depot
23:54:19  <Darkvater> ah there we go
23:54:24  <Darkvater> AI was not a good subject :)
23:54:40  <glx> "goto depot" and "refit" are not the same button :) (just at the same place)
23:55:26  <Darkvater> change's good then
23:55:31  <Darkvater> although it's just cosmetic
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