Log for #openttd on 29th June 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:00  <Bjarni> ln-: I wonder if this can explain the crash on Intel Core 2 Duo (OSX port) that I can't reproduce and that makes no sense
00:01:20  <Bjarni> it breaks when switching resolution or something
00:01:39  <Sacro> ye[
00:01:41  <Sacro> *yep
00:01:47  <Sacro> the opening screen shows 2 bugs
00:01:52  <Sacro> 1 in nightly 1 in RC1
00:02:53  *** mode/#openttd [-b Sacro!*@*] by Bjarni
00:02:58  <Sacro> wtf?
00:03:01  <Sacro> when was that placed?
00:03:19  <Bjarni> we wondered if you left or something
00:03:28  <Sacro> :(
00:03:30  * Sacro gives up
00:03:52  <Bjarni> gives up what?
00:03:58  <Sacro> with everything
00:04:00  <ln-> Sacro: do you think one needs to place a ban before removing it?
00:04:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> do i hear suicidal tendencies?
00:04:34  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: had them for ages
00:09:14  <Bjarni> now he stopped talking
00:09:29  <Bjarni> maybe he is following his tendencies
00:09:40  <strstrep> I love the new loading indicators, by the way.
00:09:44  <Bjarni> that would be bad
00:09:45  <eekee> ohnoes!
00:09:54  <eekee> strstrep: yeah, me too ^_^
00:10:07  <strstrep> Hearty thanks from me.
00:10:41  * Sacro dies
00:10:57  * eekee attempts a resurection... botches it :/
00:11:22  * Smoovious sets mode: +b Sacro!*@*
00:12:40  <Bjarni> Smoovious: he just died
00:12:40  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has left #openttd [fine]
00:12:48  <eekee> awww
00:12:53  *** setrodox [] has quit [Quit: Hapiness ;D]
00:12:53  <Bjarni> isn't it too early to bury him?
00:12:53  <Smoovious> he won't complain then
00:13:04  <Smoovious> too late, I'd say
00:13:38  <Bjarni> maybe we played a bit too much with him tonight
00:13:51  <Smoovious> nah, he'll be back
00:14:02  <Bjarni> I wonder if he ever figures out when he was banned and why
00:14:22  <Smoovious> or if he was banned. :)
00:14:33  <eekee> :D
00:15:03  *** mode/#openttd [-b D!*@*] by Bjarni
00:15:04  <Jerub> wow
00:15:12  <Jerub> your banlist is empty
00:15:21  <Bjarni> yeah
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00:15:30  <Jerub> I've run out of space on the banlist in #python before.
00:15:42  <eekee> Hallo stranger
00:15:47  <Bjarni> Sacro has returned from the grave
00:15:49  <Jerub> I've literally had to prune the list first before being able to ban an annoying person.
00:15:49  <strstrep> Python is a slightly larger project. ;-)
00:16:07  <Bjarni> no it's not
00:16:08  <Bjarni> well
00:16:14  <Bjarni> it's not as important as this one
00:16:21  <Jerub> that's certaintly true.
00:16:29  <strstrep> I didn't say anything about importance ;-)
00:16:29  <Jerub> this project is far more important.
00:16:38  <Sacro> i know i wasn't baned
00:16:42  <Bjarni> at one time we banned Diablo-D3 and forgot about it for months
00:16:48  <Bjarni> so much for a temp ban
00:16:48  <Sacro> i grokked the logs for +b
00:16:51  <strstrep> I use this a whole lot more than Python.
00:17:37  <glx> <@Bjarni> at one time we banned Diablo-D3 and forgot about it for months <-- each time he comes here, he does everything to get banned :)
00:17:40  * Smoovious grins.
00:18:02  <Bjarni> glx: yeah... it's much faster just to keep the ban
00:18:12  <eekee> hehe
00:18:17  <Smoovious> I extremely rarely put on a perma-ban... 97% of the time I add an expire time
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00:18:53  <strstrep> Ahh... the politics of IRC.
00:18:59  <Bjarni> I never bothered to figure out how to set time limits on the bans. I ban people so rarely that it's not a hard task to unban them manually
00:19:12  <Jerub> Smoovious: how do you add an expire time?
00:19:29  <Bjarni> that is what I was about to ask
00:20:21  <orudge> tis a client-side feature
00:20:24  <Smoovious> well, I don't know if IRC allows expire times, although services should... but the /ban command in mIRC has a switch for # of seconds
00:20:35  <Jerub> interesting.
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00:21:07  <Jerub> I used to op on austnet, where an op could jus tdo `ban foo -expires never
00:21:08  <Jerub> or something
00:21:21  <Jerub> it's been a fair few years since then.
00:21:46  <Smoovious> that would probably be services handling the ban
00:22:05  <Jerub> oh, yes, it was the services that actually did the ban.
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00:22:21  <Jerub> kinda neat because you just had to be identified, not wearing your @
00:26:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10383 /branches/0.5/train_cmd.c: [0.5] -Fix (r10373, FS#958): v->z_pos was wrong for trains on bridge
00:27:28  <Sacro> glx: does that sort out the opening screen?
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00:28:03  <glx> what is the problem in intro?
00:28:22  <Sacro> glx: watch the train coming out the tunnel at the top right
00:29:13  <NukeBuster> broken down?
00:30:03  <Sacro> NukeBuster: keep watching... :p
00:30:24  <benc_> it lost its head :(
00:30:51  <Sacro> benc_: indeed :(
00:30:53  <Sacro> its quite sad...
00:32:10  <glx> which train exactly?
00:32:15  <glx> the food train?
00:32:30  <NukeBuster> hmm... i don't see it...
00:32:53  <Sacro> glx: yes
00:32:58  <Sacro> NukeBuster: 0.5.3-RC1?
00:33:21  <benc_>
00:33:21  <NukeBuster> hmm... watching trunk...
00:33:25  <benc_> train is going "under" the bridge
00:33:38  <Smoovious> load up the opening screen as a saved game... and look at the newgrf list... on my end, it looks like it had a grf loaded...
00:33:39  <glx> yes I just fixed that
00:34:03  <benc_> cool.
00:34:09  <glx> Smoovious: color of icon?
00:36:12  <SmatZ> glx: i fixed that too :D but in a different way :)
00:36:17  <Smoovious> it may have been my fault too, now that I think about it...  ruling that out
00:36:36  <Bjarni> goodnight
00:36:40  <Smoovious> yeah, nvm... it seems to have been my own fault
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00:37:03  <glx> SmatZ: your fix was similar :) (but the comment style is wrong)
00:37:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> the title screen is like savegame version 4 or something, it cannot have been saved with newgrfs
00:37:38  <Smoovious> ok... hang o n
00:37:57  <SmatZ> glx: yes, it is wrong, I just reverted what was removed :)
00:38:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> more likely is that the game automatically loaded the grfs from the .cfg
00:38:29  <Smoovious> I ran trunk, and loaded it, no grf's... then I ran 0.5.2, and loaded the opening screen that came with it, and it shows US Train Set with a green  icon
00:38:42  <strstrep> It needs to have one of the savegames from #openttdcoop --- bring the game to its knees on the title screen.
00:38:54  <Smoovious> it shouldn't  automatically add newgrf's with a saved game, should it?
00:39:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, with savegames from before the newgrf information it should load the grfs from the default config
00:39:49  <Smoovious> icky
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01:27:23  <Elvis_Cooper> hi there
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01:53:40  <elmz> what exactly does Giant screenshot do? :P
02:02:44  <Tobin>  It takes a giant screenshot.
02:02:55  <Tobin> :)
02:03:25  <Tobin> The image you'll get using the giant screenshot command covers the entire map.
02:03:43  <elmz> hehe
02:04:22  <elmz> 541 MB
02:04:42  <elmz> and the game froze for god knows how long :P
02:05:13  <elmz> 2048x2048 map ^^
02:06:39  <elmz> 4 am.....maybe I should stop playing ottd and get to bed?
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02:21:58  <gerrh> hi, i got disconnected, so i'll dare repeat what i said in case i timed out before it got transmitted
02:22:00  <gerrh> lads, another question. i've been toying around with the [news_display] section in openttd.cfg, trying to set some values to "none" without any luck. they simply get set back to full when the i end the server
02:22:03  <gerrh> anyone know what the correct value would be in order to turn off the news spam?
02:25:55  <NukeBuster> see:
02:27:12  <gerrh> haha
02:27:15  <gerrh> off!
02:27:32  <gerrh> probably the only variation of the term "turn this off" i havent tried
02:27:34  <NukeBuster> what did you put there?
02:27:40  <gerrh> none, false
02:27:41  <NukeBuster> gehehe
02:27:42  <gerrh> low
02:27:42  <gerrh> etc
02:27:50  <gerrh> :D
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07:26:39  <Smoovious> do I need a newgrf to have trams in trunk, or are there some that are default?
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07:28:11  <Rubidium> yes, no
07:28:14  <hylje> thou need a newgrf
07:31:18  * Smoovious nod.
07:31:21  <Smoovious> thany
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07:32:41  <dihedral> morning ladies :-)
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08:18:34  <Luukland> Heya, Is there a max. number of industries set in OTTD?
08:18:49  <Luukland> or can i add as many i like in my scenario?
08:19:41  <peter1138> no. yes.
08:19:49  <Luukland> :)
08:20:12  <Luukland> also no max. number of towns? ^^
08:20:26  <Rubidium> peter1138: lies... there is a maximum number of towns and industries
08:20:34  <Luukland> Whahaha :P
08:20:38  <Rubidium> for example towns can't be closer than 10 tiles or so from eachother
08:20:53  <Rubidium> on a map of 2048x2048 this limits the number of towns to 4096 ;)
08:21:15  <Luukland> :P
08:21:23  <Rubidium> and for industries
08:21:27  <Luukland> yeah?
08:22:06  <Rubidium> if you've got the multiple industries per town not enabled it's something like 44000 (11 industries per town)
08:22:18  <Luukland> ok
08:22:27  <Rubidium> or 65535 because the variable that holds the index doesn't hold more
08:22:42  <Rubidium> so yes, there is a maximum
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08:22:46  <Luukland> well that should be enough to add a lot into my scenario
08:22:57  <Rubidium> but I guess you won't reach that maximum
08:23:02  <Luukland> hmmm
08:23:05  <Luukland> maybe :)
08:23:31  <Luukland> Working on 2056 x 2056 -> UK + Ireland + Calais :)
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08:24:22  <Rubidium> odd map size ;)
08:24:50  <Luukland> i know it is sick :)
08:25:06  <Luukland> But you can build everything from your dreams in England :P
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08:25:39  <Luukland> Gigantic Railwaynetworks, from Thurso to Calais (north-south)
08:26:15  * Rubidium thinks Luukland didn't get it ;)
08:26:17  <Phazorx> gigantic wont be realistic probably
08:26:44  <Luukland> Phazorx maybe
08:26:44  <Phazorx> Rubidium: only programmers know at least 16 powers of 2 by heart :)
08:26:48  <Rubidium> ofcourse, as long as you flood large parts of it ;)
08:27:12  <Luukland> Rubidium i guess 50% is flooded (not very usefull)
08:27:25  <Rubidium> Phazorx: but everyone playing large maps should now it is 2048x2048
08:27:44  <Smoovious> well, I suppose you could hit t he max industries, with multiple-per-town enabled, and the  theorhetical maxiimum of 4096 towns...
08:28:41  <Smoovious> laying track would be a problem after  a whilie tho
08:28:45  <Phazorx> Rubidium: does map size itself directly defines server load?
08:29:06  <Phazorx> ot it is indureies, towns and result of player activity only?
08:29:42  <Smoovious> yes, yes, yes, and yes
08:30:07  <Phazorx> that was "or" question
08:31:04  <Luukland> :P
08:31:26  <Smoovious> oh... in that case...
08:31:37  <Smoovious> ERR: Invalid Input
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08:32:03  * Phazorx thinks Smoovious is being femaleish
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08:33:20  <peter1138> Phazorx: "is it hot or cold?" "yes"
08:33:26  <peter1138> perfectly valid answer
08:33:46  * Smoovious thinks Phazorx incorrectly assumes that is actually insulting to Smoovious
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08:34:22  <Phazorx> in human conversation answer is something that provides information rather than validates the input peter1138 :)
08:34:41  <Phazorx> Smoovious: that was just statement based on behavioral similarities :)
08:34:44  <Smoovious> it did provide information
08:35:04  <Chris82> peter, or any other dev, do you have some suggestions for me what I can change with daypatch to get it eventually in trunk :D ?
08:35:21  <Smoovious> the question itself was invalid... it assumes XOR which didn't apply.
08:35:26  <Chris82> I've rewritten the whole patch to make it work with an inline function already which should've have helped at least a little
08:36:04  <Smoovious> er... logical OR... not XOR
08:36:11  <Phazorx> it assumed or
08:36:55  <Phazorx> however that's all spemantics... i wonder what exactly does server do with the map then
08:36:58  <Luukland> ......... >_<
08:37:07  <Luukland> Who started this silly discussion?!
08:37:24  <Luukland> Pfff... Don't you have better things to do :P
08:37:26  * Smoovious points to Phazorx
08:37:42  <peter1138> bitwise operators are great; 1 or 2 equals 3. 1 and 2 equals 0.
08:38:08  <peter1138> Phazorx: grow trees, change farm fields, flood water...
08:38:32  <dihedral> Chris82: how did it work out yesterday - you got my email?
08:38:57  <peter1138> every tile is periodically updated. more tiles, more updates.
08:39:19  <Phazorx> trees and flood does apply... i was kinda hoping that animation is client side only
08:39:46  <Smoovious> everything calculated on one side, is identically calculated everywhere else
08:39:54  <Phazorx> peter1138: so in order to grow trees - all map is analyzed rather than something added randomly?
08:39:56  <peter1138> nope, everything has to be synchronised
08:39:59  <Smoovious> or... DESYNC
08:40:12  <Smoovious> it is added randomly
08:40:29  <Smoovious> all computers would add it randomly together
08:40:44  <Phazorx> peter1138: i dont see muhc point in sinchronizing tidal tiles or state of any particular field, or lights sequence of thaetre animation
08:41:08  <peter1138> well palette animation isn't synchroized
08:41:15  <peter1138> even with an n
08:41:57  <Phazorx> but farms tiles actuly have differen type?
08:42:08  <peter1138> yes, of course.
08:42:09  <Smoovious> yes
08:42:15  <Phazorx> i had hoped that it is jst client animatioon... sound very useless for server
08:42:34  <Phazorx> kinda representational matter only
08:42:38  <Smoovious> but then again, you have no idea how i t works
08:42:45  <Smoovious> no, it  isn't
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08:42:56  <Phazorx> what difference does it make for the server?
08:43:28  <Phazorx> peter1138: how does tree growing works?
08:43:31  <Smoovious> the different stages of farmland are different sprites... different type of land...
08:44:07  <Phazorx> Smoovious: that is representation which is only visualy visible as different element rendederd on client side, has no influence on game logic of the server
08:44:22  <Smoovious> if it isn't identical on the server and client, the map desyncs because they're different... they need to be i denticaal as different swatches of farmland are periodically placed around the farm... and farmland costs more to clear
08:44:30  <Smoovious> no, it isn't
08:44:53  <Smoovious> Phazorx... you know what a random seed is, right?
08:45:06  <Phazorx> is the cost of clearing farm tile type 1 is different from farm tile 2 ?
08:45:20  <Phazorx> Smoovious: i know how randomization works within ottd
08:45:37  <Phazorx> my point is - in this particular case it is not necesasry to cunch that information
08:45:38  <Smoovious> sure about that?
08:45:46  <Smoovious> yes, it is
08:45:47  <Phazorx> whether it does it now or not that is different
08:46:18  <Phazorx> Smoovious: please, explain why server should care if it is grteen field or brown?
08:46:20  <Smoovious> as I just said... they're d ifferent sprites, with different land identifications... that isn't  palette animation... it is changing  one kind of tile, to another...
08:46:26  <peter1138> trees are important :)
08:46:29  <Smoovious> I did... twice
08:46:38  <peter1138> they have to be synchronised
08:46:52  <Phazorx> Smoovious: you are only stating how it is now, not explaining why is it needed
08:46:59  <Phazorx> peter1138: trees are, indeed
08:47:01  <Phazorx> but not farms
08:47:02  <Smoovious> everything the client does, the server and other clients also have to do, at t he same moment
08:47:05  <Smoovious> yes, we are
08:47:14  <Smoovious> you're just not listening
08:47:23  <peter1138> and how much processing time would you save by skipping field updates?
08:47:29  <peter1138> i'd say none
08:47:36  <Phazorx> Smoovious: why does server not syncronizing screen sizes of all client, or which windows are opened
08:47:45  <peter1138> well, not none, but negligable
08:47:45  <Phazorx> or location of map view point?
08:47:47  <Smoovious> quite a bit, s ince the clients would desync  quite often
08:48:01  <Smoovious> cuz the screen  sizes have nothing to do with game play or the state of the map
08:48:04  <Phazorx> peter1138: on 4096x4096 it could be quite a bit
08:48:14  <peter1138> 4096x4096 isn't possible
08:48:38  <Phazorx> peter1138: that wasnt my point
08:48:42  * dihedral slaps Chris82
08:48:42  <Phazorx> read big map
08:49:00  <peter1138> you should profile it.
08:49:11  <peter1138> updating a farm field is a tiny amount of work
08:49:16  <Phazorx> Smoovious: type of particular farm tile has nothign to do with gameplay either
08:49:37  <Rubidium> no, but whether a tile is "brown" or "green" or a "farm" tile does
08:49:39  <Phazorx> peter1138: it is nothign compared to yapf, indeed but perhaps there are other things liek that
08:49:42  <Smoovious> the different farm tiles, are different sprites... as I already said now, three times...
08:50:02  <Phazorx> sprites matter only for rendedr Smoovious, which server lacks
08:50:09  <Smoovious> they have different tile #'s... when h ashed, the map  hashes, would be different from client to server...
08:50:14  <Smoovious> which desync's...
08:50:17  <Rubidium> oh, the state of the farm tiles matters too
08:50:20  <Smoovious> no, they don't
08:50:24  <blathijs> Smoovious: What would be the gain of not synchronizing farm land types?
08:50:31  <Phazorx> Smoovious: you seem to miss my poiont.. i know how it is now... but it makes very little sense to me
08:50:39  <Smoovious> blathijs pardon?!
08:50:44  <Phazorx> Rubidium: how
08:50:47  <Rubidium> because they get removed when the farm stops producing, but only after it is "fully" grown
08:51:03  <blathijs> Smoovious: Why would we want to not synchronize it?
08:51:04  <Smoovious> I get your point, Phazorx...  you just won't listen to why peter1138 and I are telling you, your point is flawed
08:51:13  <Rubidium> and *if* the server didn't do it, it would get different cost for destroying the tile -> boom
08:51:13  <Phazorx> Rubidium: really ?
08:51:16  <Smoovious> blathijs... pardon?
08:51:22  <Phazorx> and rest just keeps fruiting till then?
08:51:30  <Smoovious> blathijs... please scroll back and catch up with the convo
08:51:41  <Phazorx> Smoovious: untill Rubidium meantying this peter1138 was in agreemenet with me
08:51:57  <Phazorx> *mentioned
08:52:03  <Smoovious> Phazorx... you and I must have very different i deas of 'in agreement'
08:52:47  <Phazorx> perhaps you are still stuck at synchronization matter rather than moved on to question why is it necesary to do it in this partiular case :)
08:52:52  <stillunknown> uint8 cached_veh_length;  // length of this vehicle in units of 1/8 of normal length, cached because this can be set by a callback
08:53:06  <blathijs> Smoovious: So, only to reduce the load on a dedicated server?
08:53:12  <stillunknown> Is this actually correct, it's more like normal units.
08:53:12  <Phazorx> Rubidium: i guess it adds to eyecandy
08:53:14  <Smoovious> and we've told you 3 times now why it i s necessary
08:53:14  <Rubidium> and the whole palette animation is done client side *if* enabled, all other animation isn't
08:53:29  <peter1138> stillunknown: 1/8th of a train length happens to be 1 normal unit
08:53:42  <Smoovious> but farm tiles, are not done by palette animation
08:53:48  <Smoovious> they're different sprites
08:54:03  <Phazorx> Rubidium: i was just thinking of clear separatio between gamelogic relevant and rendeder relevant parts
08:54:22  <Rubidium> the farm fields are part of the game logic
08:54:44  * Smoovious nods.
08:54:48  <Rubidium> because they cost more to destroy
08:55:00  <Smoovious> which  I already mentioned
08:55:04  <Phazorx> Rubidium: i see that now, i didnt know that there are conditional removal of particular type only at farm death
08:55:23  <stillunknown> peter1138: Is it possible that cached_veh_length is not always correct?
08:55:24  <Phazorx> Rubidium: that wasnt my point, difference between farm tile types was
08:55:46  <Smoovious> they're  different sprites... different land ID's...
08:55:48  <peter1138> stillunknown: under what circumstances?
08:56:08  <Smoovious> if t hey aren't i dentical between server and all clients, they desync
08:56:08  <Rubidium> Smoovious: the fact that they are different sprites has *NOTHING* to do with the fact that it affects the game logic
08:56:37  <Smoovious> and has nothing to do witht hashing the map?
08:56:39  <Phazorx> back to trees... i was wondering how tree growing wroks... as peter said it is proportional to map size... is it analysing every tile or picks them randomly?
08:56:41  <stillunknown> peter1138: always
08:56:50  <stillunknown> peter1138: when a train is moving
08:56:56  <peter1138> stillunknown: you're saying it's not always correct always?
08:57:13  <peter1138> what value have you got, and what did you expect?
08:57:35  <Rubidium> Phazorx: it's done in the tile loop stuff; clear tiles randomly place trees, whereas tree tiles randomly upgrade/downgrade trees
08:57:42  <peter1138> Smoovious: what is this "hashing the map" you talk of?
08:58:08  <stillunknown> Let me put this way, all the cars align perfectly(various size cars), except the tender is sticking half way in the train, which suggests a newgrf error (hopefully).
08:58:31  <Smoovious> peter1138... like... for the hashes that are compared to check for desync's? I seem to remember that was an issue in 0.4.8
08:58:35  <peter1138> most likely
08:58:57  <Phazorx> Rubidium: i mean is it based on analyzyz of all tiles or engine randonmly picks some to update?
08:58:59  <Rubidium> hashes used for desync? that's new for me
08:58:59  <peter1138> Smoovious: random seeds are checked, there is no hash checking
08:59:22  <Rubidium> Phazorx: it iterates over all tiles and then randomly places a tree
08:59:32  <Phazorx> Rubidium: ocuh :)
08:59:42  <Smoovious> then I misunderstood the convo about it back then... and stand corrected
09:00:03  <peter1138> Phazorx: you need to understand how the tileloop process works :)
09:00:37  <Phazorx> peter1138: perhaps... but in grame scale of things that can be omitted
09:00:41  <peter1138> iterates over all tiles does not mean every tile every tick
09:00:53  <Phazorx> peter1138: what does it mean then ?
09:01:10  <peter1138> it means what it say
09:01:12  <peter1138> +s
09:01:17  <Rubidium> that every tile gets a tileloop tick every X game ticks
09:01:31  <Rubidium> and not all tiles get that tick at the same time
09:01:33  <stillunknown> I wonder how anyone ever programmed ttd.
09:01:33  <blathijs> We could probably refrain from synchronizing different farm types and other presentation-only aspects, but since we're only comparing random seeds it won't cost anything to do it, and it would require some way to clearly distinguish between things that are and are not synchronized
09:02:13  <Rubidium> blathijs: farm types aren't presentation only
09:02:26  <blathijs> then we couldn't :-)
09:02:50  <peter1138> stillunknown: chris sawyer clearly has armies of gnomes
09:02:57  <blathijs> Rubidium: Or we could make them presentation only :-p
09:02:58  <Rubidium> when you delete a farm, all farm tiles continue to grow except the one that "restarts" the farm growth (that one removes the farm tile)
09:05:22  <peter1138> anyway
09:05:32  <peter1138> handlelocomotivesmokecloud ;)
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09:08:47  * dihedral slaps Chris82 with a fish
09:08:54  <dihedral> this is fun :-P
09:10:18  <stillunknown> I know understand what bitch custom bridge heads must have been.
09:10:21  <stillunknown> *I now
09:10:29  <stillunknown> *what a bitch
09:10:57  * Chris82 slaps dihedral around a bit with a large trout
09:10:59  <Chris82> :p
09:11:19  <Chris82> hmmm inflation seems a bit insane in long games
09:11:24  * dihedral dunks Chris82 in fish&chip batter
09:11:30  <Chris82> I have a test game running which is at 2113 right now
09:11:38  <Chris82> and a Lev 4 Chimera costs 209 million :D lol
09:11:45  <dihedral> lol
09:11:56  <peter1138> cool
09:12:03  <Chris82> whoa :o
09:12:09  <Chris82> building a coal mine costs 9,2 billion lmfao
09:12:12  <peter1138> inflation works then
09:12:21  <peter1138> although i thought it was supposed to stop
09:12:46  <Chris82> well I can't say I have too much money :D I only have 2,2 billion but I also only have like 40 road vehicles
09:12:53  <Chris82> the game is very unstable though
09:13:05  <dihedral> lol
09:13:09  <Chris82> world population is 6,7 million and there are around 3000 vehicles in the game (waggons not counted)
09:13:18  <Chris82> the game crashes every few minutes
09:13:20  <dihedral> Chris82: how did you get along yesterday evening?
09:13:32  <Chris82> I just unpacked your stuff and try it now :)
09:13:43  <dihedral> ah
09:13:48  * dihedral is curious :-)
09:13:54  <Chris82> hehe
09:14:09  * dihedral slaps Chris82 just for the fun of it
09:14:12  <Chris82> I was actually testing longtime stability of the game with this ultra long game
09:14:23  <dihedral> nice idea :-)
09:14:35  <Chris82> the largest city is almost 100k :D lol
09:14:48  <Chris82> but I said the game has become pretty unstable since around 2110
09:14:55  <Chris82> but as*
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09:16:32  <peter1138> Chris82: got a save? :p
09:16:35  <Chris82> but inflation is really crazy, is it a hard coded percentage?
09:16:40  <Chris82> yeah but you need my ChrisIN to load it
09:16:46  <peter1138> ahh
09:16:55  <peter1138> no wonder ;)
09:17:11  <Chris82>
09:17:24  <Chris82>
09:17:53  <Chris82> 26th Mar 2113, I can't get any further
09:18:07  <Chris82> time to start a game with r10383-trunk and see how far it goes :D
09:18:22  <dihedral> Chris82: can you actually get .htaccess files to work with the windows webserver?
09:18:40  <Chris82> there is a tool that enables .htaccess files on IIS yes
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09:18:58  <dihedral> another question: why do you use IIS and not apache2? :-D
09:19:22  <Chris82> ewwww Apache sucks
09:19:27  <dihedral> lol
09:19:31  <Chris82> :p
09:19:38  * dihedral likes apache2!
09:19:47  <Chris82> I am using 64-bit IIS6 and I am pretty happy with it
09:19:53  <dihedral> ah
09:19:55  <dihedral> well then
09:19:59  <Chris82> I am alos already testing IIS7 which has superior performance to Apache2
09:20:08  <hylje> iis6 is nice but unfortunately it locks you in to windows
09:20:30  <hylje> kernel mode webserver, heh
09:22:05  <Chris82> dihedral: htscanner will support htaccess on IIS but that's not the tool I meant actually
09:22:12  <Chris82> I have too many favorites to find it right now :p
09:22:23  <dihedral> nvm
09:22:27  <dihedral> was just being curious
09:22:41  <dihedral> because you can set the include path in .htaccess files
09:23:13  <dihedral> with a php_val include_path ".:pear" instead of what i did, setting it at the top of php files
09:23:45  <Chris82> I don't like such behaviour on websites though
09:23:50  <dihedral> hehe
09:24:00  <Chris82> I don't feel save when a site I host has access to a folder not available to the public
09:24:05  * dihedral thinks that's worth a slap :-D
09:24:10  <Chris82> lol
09:24:32  <dihedral> j/k
09:24:59  <Chris82> just started a r10383 unpatched game on fw :D let's see if it beats my IN in long time stability *ggg*
09:25:01  <dihedral> i have setup apache2 in a way that i never have to revonfigure/restart apache even if i start hosting another domain
09:25:13  <hylje> Chris82: might you have thought of private space? like settings files..
09:25:34  <Chris82> what do you mean by private space?
09:25:37  <dihedral> hehe, hylje: what about virtual machines :-)
09:25:46  <hylje> things a site may use that is not public
09:26:19  <Chris82> well one security hole in there and you never know what happens
09:26:29  <Chris82> I don't tend to use features that I don't really need
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09:26:43  <Chris82> bad enough that PHP is enabled *g* :p
09:26:52  <dihedral> lol
09:27:15  <Chris82> a few other people have their sites on my server and one guy made a pretty flawed PHP contact script which I had to take off
09:27:19  <dihedral> once you start hosting a lot of other peoples stuff you tend to have a bunch of stuff
09:27:26  <Chris82> because it could be misused to send mail to foreign domains
09:27:54  <Chris82> and since the mails were not going through my ASSP proxy I couldn't block it
09:28:30  <dihedral> Chris82: i tend not to continue hosting such people's stuff
09:28:48  <hylje> why do you assert having a non-public part of a site being a security hole moreso than the public part?
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09:32:38  <Chris82> because PHP apps often have security issues
09:32:50  <Chris82> and therefore I don't want a PHP script to access anything on C:
09:32:56  <Chris82> all websites are on a different hd
09:33:28  <hylje> why would a non-public script access /C when a public doesnt?
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09:35:02  <Chris82> dunno you just sometimes read stuff like a php script had includes lying on c and because the script was badly coded through a security hole in php you could access to the drive where the includes were residing
09:35:52  <hylje> so actually your settings or php itself just suck
09:36:26  <Chris82> yeah thus I don't allow much to php scripts
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09:38:52  <dihedral> chroot the webserver :-)
09:40:18  <dihedral> personally i think that works great :-)
09:40:30  <dihedral> + chroot of ssh logins :-)
09:40:45  <Chris82> I obviously don't use SSH tho :p
09:40:50  <dihedral> well
09:40:53  <dihedral> ftp then
09:41:05  <dihedral> you can though install an ssh server on windows :-D
09:41:10  <Chris82> you mean rdp?
09:41:11  <Chris82> not ftp?
09:41:28  <dihedral&