Config
Log for #openttd on 24th September 2007:
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00:15:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> man, i want a feature to switch engines at a station
00:15:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> so i can actually switch between steam and electric
00:16:11  <ln-> but that probably can't be done without rewriting half of the game.
00:17:54  <Sionide> .
00:19:53  <Bjarni> looks like Sionide got a point
00:20:04  <Nite> acn you actually run atrain with steam/diesel AND electric loco on it (doubleheded) ?
00:20:26  <Nite> . .
00:20:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but that is stupid (from my point of view)
00:21:01  <Bjarni> stupid, but possible
00:21:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> the electric engine will be disabled during non-electric travel
00:21:57  <Bjarni> maybe acn isn't aware of this
00:22:01  <Bjarni> anyway time for bed
00:22:05  <Bjarni> goodnight
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00:24:11  <ln-> so when do we code a new ttd-style game from scratch?
00:24:28  <AmiXwoktest> hehe
00:24:34  <AmiXwoktest> isnt openttd fine?
00:24:37  <ln-> no.
00:25:32  <ln-> it is not extendable, it is not maintainable.
00:26:07  <ln-> it heavily depends on commercial files that are hard to obtain legally.
00:28:01  <ln-> if it was extendable, it would be a matter of hours to add support for e.g. underwater tunnels.
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00:39:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> or shunting :p
00:39:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> or PBS :p
00:39:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> or The New Map Array (R)
00:45:23  <Nite> will it realy disabel? wil its % age decay ?
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02:03:10  <Sacro> zomg an orudge
02:06:02  <orudge> lies
02:06:24  <Sacro> i spotted leuchars in the guess the brittish station thread!
02:19:29  <SpComb> lies
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03:09:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11153 /branches/0.5/lang/slovak.txt: [0.5] -Fix [FS#1251]: incorrect usage of {G} tag in slovak translation
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03:20:32  <Phazorx> anyone alive on this planet?
03:20:50  <glx> I am but not for long ;)
03:22:24  <Phazorx> glx: a server refuses to load a game
03:22:38  <Phazorx> comes up with pregenerated althoug i use -g switch
03:22:50  <Phazorx> what do i need to turn on in debug to figure out why it fdoes it ?
03:22:51  <glx> where is the game ?
03:22:56  <Phazorx> local
03:23:04  <Phazorx> ./save/game65.sav
03:23:24  <glx> -g with full path fails ?
03:23:38  <Phazorx> have only tried relative
03:23:38  <glx> I mean -g save/game65.sav
03:23:42  <Phazorx> nothing realy fails
03:23:50  <Phazorx> it just loads a generated one
03:24:12  <Phazorx> ./openttd -G save/game65.sav -D 0.0.0.0:3980 -d 2
03:24:18  <glx> it's -g
03:24:19  <Phazorx> well small g
03:25:02  <Phazorx> how do i scroll up in screen session :/
03:25:09  * glx checks source (I think order matters)
03:25:21  <glx> shift-pageup I think
03:25:33  <Phazorx> that's console screen
03:26:01  <Phazorx> oh... it did not find one grf
03:26:04  <Phazorx> could that be it ?
03:26:14  <glx> maybe
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03:28:39  <glx> are you sure it's a generated game when it fails?
03:28:46  <glx> it should be intro game
03:29:25  <Phazorx> if i use autopilot it is intro
03:29:32  <Phazorx> i got a generated one once too
03:29:48  <Phazorx> i think it is intro if i dont misspell anything
03:31:01  <glx> -G is for the seed
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03:31:37  <Phazorx> that's what  i mean by mispeling
03:31:39  <Phazorx> i think it is grf
03:31:42  <Phazorx> reloading map
03:32:59  * glx goes to sleep
03:33:07  <glx> good night
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11:56:31  <Brianetta> I have stumbled upon a freakish coincidence
11:56:59  <Brianetta> The world population at the UNIX epoch
12:06:33  <blathijs> was what?
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12:35:16  <Tefad> i'm going to guess 4.3 billion
12:35:29  <Tefad> but that's just a hunch
12:47:19  * Phazorx pings Brianetta
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13:57:40  <skidd13> hi
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14:17:52  <skidd13> Any dev comments to FS1090?
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14:29:18  <Belugas> +	"cleaner_town_growth",
14:29:18  <Belugas> +	"mod_road_rebuild",
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14:29:27  <Belugas> Yo need otiopns?
14:29:27  <hylje> :o
14:29:31  <hylje> yo
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14:30:30  <skidd13> Hmm. I prefer to split modifications from the original code
14:33:17  <Belugas> personally, i'm not much in favor of splitting.  The option panel is quite populated, imho.  If it is a fix, it might as well be an inclusive one.  Or maybe attach it to any of the non-original towd road patter maybe?
14:33:28  <Belugas> after all, those are non-original behaviours ;)
14:34:57  <skidd13> If you prefer it this way.
14:35:37  <Belugas> as i said, it is myu opinion.
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14:35:44  <Belugas> I do not know what the others think of it
14:36:02  <Belugas> and i'm not only speaking of th other devs ;)
14:36:09  <Belugas> so question is raised
14:36:20  <Belugas> and i'm not going to make a poll :D
14:36:40  * Belugas resumes reading
14:37:07  <skidd13> For +	"cleaner_town_growth" I can agree
14:37:07  <skidd13> +	"mod_road_rebuild", is a more difficult thing cause it changes the meaning of the RoadReconstruction
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15:07:37  <Belugas> could be skidd13.  Justnot there yet.  work@work is a nightmarish thing today
15:11:15  <skidd13> work@work/uni is a nightmare here too ;)
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16:26:47  <Belugas> DaleStan, on var 45 of industry (the player info), what return would be required if we're dealing with no owner?
16:27:35  <Belugas> in vehspri.asm:1704, you jump out of the var if it is the case (cmp al,7).
16:28:13  <Belugas> note that i could simply prohibit the callback to be lunch if it is the case, might be easier.  Just wondering
16:28:25  <Belugas> err.. callback 1A4, that is...
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16:33:34  <DaleStan> Currently the no-owner return is unspecified. Actual value is 000000010. The low byte is unlikely to change, but the rest may, as some parts are normally dependent on [curplayer], not [esi+<foo>.owner]
16:34:12  <DaleStan> Do not disable callback 14A. Some industries may want to select between some subset of the available colors.
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16:44:26  <Belugas> Thanks DaleStan.  In the case of an owner none, though, c and C could be simply 0?
16:44:26  <Belugas> or does ttdp have some values for it?
16:44:28  <Belugas> (player info 43 for  vehicles)
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16:49:08  <DaleStan> The only other defined thing Patch could do would be to return the corresponding color for [curplayer] and/or [human1], but the former isn't always reliable, and the latter is not particularly useful. (There's lots of dont-look-at-it-or-you'll-break-it type magic to make vehicle 43 work properly in the purchase window, without using [curplayer].)
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16:49:19  <Wolf01> hello
16:51:53  <Belugas> hello Wolf01
16:51:53  <Belugas> DaleStan, that is exactly waht i want to be sure of, for the whole callback system
16:52:31  <Belugas> since var 45 is based on ver 43, that is...
16:53:27  <Wolf01> we Belugas
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16:59:42  <DaleStan> indu 45 requires a structure, and is not defined if the owner is not a player. veh var 43 is always available, with or without a structure, and vehicles always have a player-owner.
16:59:56  <DaleStan> And now I'm way late leaving.
17:00:32  <Belugas> so you can stay then :D
17:00:35  <Belugas> thanks
17:03:15  <SpComb> masterserver / servers.openttd.org down?
17:06:21  *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489D183.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:07:06  <Rubidium> looks like it
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17:14:32  <SpComb> according to XeryusTC it's been down since yesterday?
17:14:46  <XeryusTC> yes
17:14:52  <XeryusTC> well
17:14:59  <XeryusTC> i heard the devs say it was down yesterday too :P
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17:17:36  <orudge> It's not been down since yesterday
17:17:42  <orudge> it just happened to go down yesterday. And conveniently just now, too.
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17:21:06  <orudge> hmm
17:21:07  <orudge> DOS attack
17:21:24  <SpComb> against openttd.org specifically?
17:22:07  <orudge> no
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17:22:38  <SpComb> ICMP pings get through fine, but HTTP and the UDP master-server queries don't
17:22:56  * SpComb heads to the store
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17:43:50  <orudge> I think that's it under control
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18:17:51  * Purno pokes scia in the eyes
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18:25:31  <boekabart> Purno: How is DutchSet coming along?
18:25:36  <boekabart> getting close?
18:26:30  <Purno> boekabart , nopes, progress is on halt
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18:27:05  <boekabart> ow?
18:27:08  <boekabart> how come
18:27:26  <Purno> because the full coding team (hyro and me) have other hobbies to spend times on nowadays
18:27:49  <boekabart> shame... so much work 'lost' on hold :(
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18:30:00  <Purno> yep, but if you're volunteering to continue... ;)
18:30:34  <Phazorx> !was thre a nighty released already today?
18:31:03  <boekabart> Purno: depends what needs to be done
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18:31:16  <boekabart> grf-coding is not my specialty (as in, never done it :) )
18:31:38  <Rubidium> Phazorx: how hard is it to find out yourself?
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18:31:59  <Phazorx> considering i just woke up - very :)
18:32:06  <Purno> boekabart , we use GRF Maker
18:32:08  <Purno> it's not that hard
18:32:12  <Phazorx> timezone maths will not compute at this time with me
18:32:24  <Purno> but it's mainly coding which needs to be done
18:33:10  <Rubidium> Phazorx: just type nightly.openttd.org in "random" browser
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18:36:54  <boekabart> Purno: what does the coding consist of?
18:37:17  <Purno> it's mainly drag and drop interface where you fill in some fields
18:37:42  <Purno> you still have to know some NFO tricks, but I'm sure you can find help with that.
18:37:51  <Purno> actually, most of the special tricks already have been done
18:37:55  <Purno> so there's already examples in the file
18:38:05  <Purno> it just needs to be combined and copied for other trains
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18:38:43  <Purno> e.g. combining a year depenant livery like train A has with a consist depenandent livery like train B has for train C.
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18:40:40  <Bjarni> I just had the worst timing ever. Some guy PMed me a moment after I left the computer, waited 40 minutes for a reply and left 3 minutes before I returned :(
18:40:54  <hylje> haha
18:41:03  <hylje> serves you right for being afk
18:41:25  <Bjarni> now I guess I have to call him
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18:43:05  <Phazorx> Rubidium: i got one for ya
18:43:11  <Phazorx> another coopers desync
18:43:20  <Phazorx> on r11118
18:44:27  <Phazorx> this time guaranteed in 6 days from save start
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18:47:17  <Bjarni> save that savegame well
18:47:23  <boekabart> Purno: wellaa...
18:47:29  <boekabart> how could i get started?
18:47:35  <Bjarni> I mean... make sure you don't accidentally overwrite it
18:47:45  <Purno> boekabart , what do you know about dutch trains?
18:48:01  <Phazorx> http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/phazorx/desyncs.at.February.5th.sav
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18:50:24  <boekabart> Purno: a lot
18:50:44  <boekabart> about the passenger ones, more than about freight ones
18:51:07  <boekabart> although i just moved and now have a good view of the 4 track line departing from eindhoven north
18:51:22  <boekabart> so I see (and hear) my share of freight trains now
18:51:25  <Purno> boekabart , awesome
18:51:48  <Purno> I guess I could just send you the file and you can install GRF maker and try some thingies with it :)
18:51:55  <boekabart> good plan
18:52:19  <boekabart> yesterday I went to den bosch - the IRM to tilburg went side-by-side all the way until after boxtel - awesome view
18:52:47  <Bjarni> heh
18:53:19  <Bjarni> it's always nice to have a good view
18:53:26  <Bjarni> while driving
18:56:09  <boekabart> actually 'my
18:56:15  <boekabart> driver didn;t see it
18:56:27  <boekabart> the tilburg one was about 1 car behind
18:56:30  <hylje> heh
18:57:27  <Bjarni> I was once in a train, that overtook the train I was suppose to get on (hence I switched at the next station)
18:57:38  <hylje> heh
18:57:47  <hylje> i dont get that much
18:57:53  <Bjarni> kind of funny to see our own train driving while I drove like 10 km/h faster
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18:58:10  <hylje> i dont get that good schedules when it comes to overtaking
18:58:52  <Bjarni> it was kind of a rare moment... you see it was the short distance where two lines are right next to each other
18:59:31  <hylje> heh
18:59:44  <hylje> here it's LRRL all the way
19:00:30  <Purno> boekabart , you got a PM at the forums
19:01:17  <hylje> you silly danes have your rails all over the place :>
19:01:48  <Bjarni> no
19:01:55  <Bjarni> just in the Copenhagen area
19:02:36  <Bjarni> go to Jylland and if you find some rails, then it's most likely single tracked without catenary
19:03:08  <Bjarni> and without block signals, so there are no signals outside the stations, hence long distance between the trains
19:03:36  <boekabart> Purno: thx
19:04:01  <hylje> oh noes :p
19:05:00  <Sacro> oh noes?
19:07:21  <hylje> lack of block signals!
19:07:39  <Bjarni> well
19:07:45  <Bjarni> they have a bunch of stations
19:08:51  <Bjarni> even stations without platforms
19:09:25  <hylje> !
19:11:10  <Bjarni> in railroad terms, a station is a place with an entrance and an exit signals
19:11:18  <Bjarni> and usually switches as well
19:11:43  <SpComb> yes! The username.myottd.net/servername urls now actually work ;)
19:11:44  <hylje> what about a location where a train usually stops to take and drop cargo
19:11:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11154 /trunk/src/music/win32_m.cpp: -Fix [FS#1239]: MIDI failing to play under Windows 95, 98 and ME.
19:12:08  <Bjarni> a "station" without signals is just a platform outside a station (we have a name for it... one I'm not sure how to translate)
19:12:21  <SpComb> having the username as a subdomain is great, the myottd servers don't cluster together in the server list anymore, and the first thing that hits the eye is the username, which is better than having them all be "MyOTTD"
19:12:24  <Phazorx> Rubidium: please take a look at that save
19:12:52  <Rubidium> since which revision is it desyncing?
19:13:07  <Phazorx> well i'd assume it is a oneoff of some kind
19:13:16  <Phazorx> since this is 3rd game we have with same rev
19:13:29  <Phazorx> but it started desyncing suddenly in a middle of it
19:13:37  <Phazorx> there are only 60 trains
19:13:52  <Phazorx> and i tried restarteign server - but that has no affect
19:13:58  <Rubidium> then it's probably a train you haven't used in the previous games
19:14:11  <Phazorx> we have diff trainset
19:14:15  <Bjarni> you can desync with just one train if that train can trigger the desync
19:14:36  <Phazorx> Bjarni: obviously, but usualy it takes much large game to show
19:14:53  <Phazorx> cuz some things are statistical by nature
19:14:58  <Phazorx> and more vehicles means more chances
19:15:02  <Bjarni> more trains: higher probability of one of the trains to trigger the issue
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19:15:07  <Phazorx> exactly
19:15:34  <Bjarni> but for all we know, the desync could be caused by something else, like a town growth or similar
19:15:53  <Phazorx> well, my Q is - can it be looked at and mitigated
19:16:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11155 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp:
19:16:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1253]: work around a nasty MS CRT 8 SP1 bug making it virtually
19:16:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: impossible to debug 32bpp games under MSVC
19:16:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: (http://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=257606).
19:16:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Patch by boekabart.
19:16:28  <hylje> windows workarounds ;_;
19:16:33  <Phazorx> given that there is only 6 days and 60 trains, should be not that hard to dig through log
19:16:46  *** DeGhosty [~c4co