Log for #openttd on 19th October 2007:
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07:45:03  <dihedral> morning :-)
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09:36:51  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: truelight * r11294 /branches/noai/ (9 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIIndustry::IsCargoAccepted + Valuator (on request by Kilinich)
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10:27:02  * dihedral greets TrueBrain
10:32:22  <dihedral> TrueBrain: can you pin 2 threads for me?
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10:39:51  <Ammller> dihedral: pin the 1. thread and link there to the 2.
10:40:43  <dihedral> the second thread is in the graphics section
10:40:59  <dihedral> 2 different groups of people we are getting hold of
10:41:14  <Ammller> ah, ok
10:41:18  <dihedral> :-)
10:41:25  <Ammller> thought, they are in the same group :)
10:41:29  <dihedral> kinda ;-D
10:42:25  <TrueBrain> dihedral: maybe it is time for you to ask an other moderator, as you start to annoy me by how many times you can ask the same question over and over and over
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10:47:42  <dihedral> TrueBrain: i asked you yesterday and all you said was you had no time
10:47:48  <dihedral> that is not a yes or a no
10:48:04  <dihedral> but none the less - sorry for annoying you
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10:55:37  <dihedral> TrueBrain: if you still feel like it ;-) 34429 and 34514
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11:32:45  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: truelight * r11295 /branches/noai/ (10 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: put Engine things in AIEngine, and rename functions as such. Most noticable: FindBestXXXVehicle -> FineBestXXXEngine
11:46:48  <TrueBrain> bah, I can't remember my myottd login :p
11:46:49  <TrueBrain> lol
11:47:43  <SpComb> and it doesn't know your email
11:47:54  <TrueBrain> poor poor system :p
11:47:55  <SpComb> nor are you able to change your own password
11:48:05  <SpComb> yeah, I haven't had the time to make it a good system
11:48:12  <TrueBrain> I just can't remember what I filled in :p
11:48:18  <SpComb> used my time to concentrate on other features
11:48:33  <TrueBrain> somehow/...
11:48:35  <TrueBrain> I am now logged in
11:48:36  <TrueBrain> :s
11:48:39  <SpComb> if you tell me what password you want it to have, I can change it for you manually
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11:48:56  <TrueBrain> nevermind
11:49:00  <TrueBrain> I wonder, I stopepd my server
11:49:02  <TrueBrain> but now it is running
11:49:02  <TrueBrain> weird
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11:49:20  <SpComb> I only fixed the stopping/starting somewhat recently
11:49:44  <TrueBrain> you still need to start it before you can change settings :p
11:49:52  <SpComb> indeed
11:50:18  <TrueBrain> you made a nice system :)
11:50:58  * SpComb started the rewrite of the part that would make it possible to configure it properly
11:51:20  <SpComb> i.e. you can change the server name and password at runtime, and it doesn't try and store all the configuration in the database anymore
11:51:55  <SpComb> the current issue is how I'd need to store the configuration in two places, in OpenTTD itself, and in the config file
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12:07:38  <dihedral> SpComb: you might like
12:08:47  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: truelight * r11296 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_vehicle.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: typo in comment of AIVehicle::GetName
12:09:37  <SpComb> I was thinking more in terms of making openttd.cfg just to means to persist the settings across server restarts, and also for use when the server itself is off
12:10:15  <SpComb> either via having OpenTTD write out the config every time it's changed, or doing that in python
12:10:44  <SpComb> so if I change some settings, then I simply modify them inside OpenTTD, and write out to the config file. If I want to know what the value for some setting is, I ask OpenTTD
12:11:22  <SpComb> I'm pretty sure that I'll write some kind of more useable control interface for OpenTTD to replace the console
12:11:55  <SpComb> packed binary data via stdin/out, with some kind of proper command/response/event protocol
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12:16:38  <dihedral> SpComb: will that not in some cases fail if the game e.g. is running?
12:17:08  <SpComb> depends on what settings you change, you can't change everything, of course
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12:18:28  <dihedral> say you want to set the difficulty :-)
12:19:05  <SpComb> I'm not really familiar with how all of the settings work, but e.g. server name and password can be changed at runtime
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12:27:41  <dihedral> yes, but port, diff level and some others cannot :-)
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13:03:31  <sdziallas> hi! i'm working for the german computer magazine c't and we are currently preparing are cd with games on it
13:04:01  <TrueBrain> welcome sdziallas
13:04:12  <sdziallas> hi!
13:04:18  <sdziallas> i would like to ask you whether it would be possible to put openTTD on it
13:04:58  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD is GPL, so you are free to distribute it, as long as you tell people where to find the source-files (which isn't a problem if you use our official binaries)
13:05:05  <TrueBrain> the main problem would be the original TT graphics
13:05:15  <TrueBrain> which you can not distribute, as that is licensed to Micropose
13:05:26  <glx> Atari now
13:05:35  <sdziallas> ok! thank you! i only thought it would be better to ask the authors first
13:05:42  <TrueBrain> It is very kind of you :)
13:05:51  <TrueBrain> and of course we would love to get a (free) copy of it ;)
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13:06:52  <sdziallas> ok!
13:06:59  <sdziallas> i will talk to one of the other editors
13:07:00  <mikl> Wasn't there an upgrade screen somewhere for trains - replace model X with Y...?
13:07:08  <sdziallas> but i think this woon't be a problem
13:07:14  <mikl> Can't find it in r11235
13:07:27  <TrueBrain> mikl: check the wiki, but it is in your vehicle-overview window
13:07:36  <glx> mikl: vehicle list, manage list
13:07:41  <glx> you can't miss it
13:07:59  <TrueBrain> sdziallas: :)
13:08:46  <mikl> ah, yes...
13:08:54  <mikl> I must be blind :)
13:09:16  <sdziallas> TrueBrain: again thank you, i will organize some things and contact you soon.
13:09:41  <TrueBrain> sdziallas: no problem :) To more people play OpenTTD, the happier we become :)
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13:10:40  <sdziallas> TrueBrain: that somehow logic - but since it is a great game - we would like to bring it to the people :-)
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13:14:44  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: truelight * r11297 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: in AIEngine, added: GetName, GetCargoType, GetCapacity, GetReliability, GetMaxSpeed, GetVehicleType, and GetPrice (on request by Kilinich)
13:15:58  <dihedral> TrueBrain: you are really doing quite a lot of noai stuff recently
13:16:17  <TrueBrain> dihedral: just a bunch of copy/paste work, where people request functions
13:16:25  <dihedral> still
13:16:35  <dihedral> it's nice to see
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13:27:12  <TrueBrain> tnx :)
13:27:16  <dihedral> do water colors in the grf's cycle on their own, or does that need to be coded in the grf?
13:27:30  <TrueBrain> colours in general cycle
13:27:34  <TrueBrain> nothing you can do about that
13:27:38  <TrueBrain> a completely different subsystem of the game :)
13:27:48  <dihedral> AntB just wanted to know
13:27:57  <TrueBrain> he can ask for himself, not? :p
13:28:05  <dihedral> he asked in the forums :-)
13:28:05  <AntB> i did on TTforums
13:28:10  <TrueBrain> ah :p
13:28:16  <dihedral> :-P
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13:28:52  <TrueBrain> hmm, I can't find the image 1-2-3
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13:29:00  <TrueBrain> but colors 216-250 or something animate
13:29:51  * AntB will try it anyway
13:29:58  <frosch123> see docs/ottd-colour-palette.gif
13:30:09  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I was trying to find an online version.. .:p
13:30:37  <frosch123> Upload it to the wiki
13:30:55  <TrueBrain>
13:31:07  <TrueBrain> 217-244
13:31:24  <AntB> and its animated! thx! :D
13:31:24  <TrueBrain> you should be able to load your own animation via a newgrf
13:31:56  <TrueBrain> but I don't know enough about newgrf to tell you more about that :p
13:32:23  <AntB> I haven't got a clue myself, but anything is worth a shot :D
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13:40:41  <Belugas> simple: start at
13:40:46  <Belugas> the rest is easy ;)
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13:47:06  <Phazorx> << candidate for #wwottdgd map :o)
13:47:23  <Roujin> ooo
13:47:35  <Roujin> thats beautiful :>
13:47:41  <hylje> :> :>
13:47:48  <TrueBrain> very nice
13:47:57  <Roujin> 2048^2?
13:48:00  <Phazorx> yup
13:48:00  <TrueBrain> <- play on this! :p
13:48:15  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: wheres the rest of europe?
13:48:24  <TrueBrain> the rest of europe isn't important!
13:48:46  <dihedral> lol
13:48:50  <dihedral> too much water
13:48:52  * dihedral coughs
13:49:12  <TrueBrain> <- lol, poor quality :p
13:49:41  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: that map misses black sea
13:49:50  <Phazorx> somehow...
13:49:52  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: is above sea-level
13:49:56  <TrueBrain> it is a heightmap
13:49:58  <Phazorx> really ?
13:50:12  <TrueBrain> the sea-level on those images is pushed 3 meters lower btw
13:50:13  <TrueBrain> but okay
13:50:39  <Phazorx> i know what height map is... but last time i checked water from black seas isnt that much higher there
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13:52:05  <Vikthor> Is it only me, or is Rhein connected with Rhone in the middle of Switzerland on that map?
13:52:26  <Phazorx> Vikthor: it is
13:52:47  <Phazorx> this isnt my map actualy
13:53:01  <Phazorx> i only shaved it and reset industries/cities
13:53:08  <dihedral> Vikthor - if you dont mention it no one will notice :-_
13:53:10  <Phazorx> as well as propered some rivers
13:53:27  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: I think it is a fun map to play on :)
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13:54:00  <Vikthor> dihedral: I doubt that, if I noticed, than why would not somebody else?
13:54:13  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: yeah we are debating on how #openttdcoop will chime in with all the rest on there
13:54:16  * dihedral was just kidding
13:54:22  <Phazorx> Vikthor: any suggestions on how to make it look better ?
13:56:04  <Vikthor> Well, I do not know, maybe make Rhein start in the Bodensee and the Rhone in Lac Leman?
14:00:31  <Phazorx> hmm... is como another name for lugano ?
14:02:15  <TrueBrain> we really need the border-patch for this kind of maps :)
14:02:42  <dihedral> can someone trun this tar into a grf for us
14:02:55  <dihedral> related post:
14:03:06  <dihedral> it's a 32bbp sprite
14:03:12  <dihedral> and we need a grf
14:03:26  <dihedral> aim is to replace the transmitter
14:03:40  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: truelight * r11298 /branches/noai/ (10 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added EngineList + Valuators for all common functions. This should replace all FindXXXEngine, which will be removed soon
14:04:29  <Phazorx> border patch?
14:04:41  <TrueBrain> Phazorx: it disallowed people to build things outside their border
14:04:51  <Phazorx> ahh is there patch liek that already?
14:05:17  <TrueBrain> I made some initial patch for it
14:05:30  <TrueBrain> head-to-head patch contains most code
14:05:39  <TrueBrain> but a reduced version of it, is enough
14:05:47  <TrueBrain> downside is that it only allowed rectangle borders currently
14:05:58  <TrueBrain> non-rectangle needs _m bits :)
14:06:01  <Phazorx> ahh... that isnt too good for this case
14:06:24  <Phazorx> so i'm off to set "transmitters aka border poles" eveywhere then
14:06:54  <dihedral> :-P
14:06:54  <TrueBrain> enjoy
14:07:03  <TrueBrain> what would be cool too, is the toll-port patch :)
14:07:08  <TrueBrain> it allowed one company to make long tracks
14:07:16  <TrueBrain> and via toll-ports, access for other companies on those tracks :p
14:08:33  <Phazorx> TrueBrain: can you capture their trains tho?
14:08:34  <dihedral> does it work stable?
14:08:43  <TrueBrain> dihedral: no, it is based on r4533
14:08:44  <TrueBrain> lol :p
14:09:06  <dihedral> ouch
14:09:09  <dihedral> where is it?
14:09:15  <TrueBrain> in my patch vault
14:09:24  <dihedral> i could try to change the patch to the current r
14:09:27  <TrueBrain> haha
14:09:29  <TrueBrain> no way :)
14:09:41  <dihedral> "no way" it's too big
14:09:48  <dihedral> or too complicated for dih?
14:09:50  <TrueBrain> no, the code changes a bit too much :p
14:10:27  <glx> just 2 deleting patches revs :)
14:10:35  <glx> c->c++ and makefile rewrite
14:10:57  <TrueBrain> but it might be nice to restart it
14:11:05  <TrueBrain> it was just that on a normal game, it rarely is useful
14:11:05  <dihedral> would i not just have to understand what the patch does, and 'rewrite' it for the current r?
14:11:25  <TrueBrain> dihedral: it needs a bit more advanced logic :p
14:11:36  <TrueBrain> anyway, I can't find the patch (only the description)
14:11:42  <dihedral> uh
14:11:44  <dihedral> k
14:11:47  <dihedral> nvm then
14:11:48  <TrueBrain> but okay, I have 1500 patches
14:11:50  <TrueBrain> so no wonder :p
14:11:52  <dihedral> LOL
14:12:06  <dihedral> grep for something that might be in the comments :-D
14:12:17  <Phazorx> and there is a city of "genf" where geneva is supposed to be here...
14:12:23  <Phazorx> where is that damn swissman
14:12:40  <dihedral> genf == geneva
14:12:44  <TrueBrain> anyway, the patch really didn't work out how I wanted it too
14:12:49  <Vikthor> Phazorx: Genf is german name fo Geneva
14:12:54  <TrueBrain> nobody wants to pay you to use your tracks
14:12:57  <dihedral> lol @ Phazorx
14:12:57  <TrueBrain> they rather lay down their own
14:12:59  <Phazorx> Vikthor: ahh...
14:13:02  <TrueBrain> as they don't trust you..
14:13:08  <Phazorx> i;d raver have it as geneva tho
14:13:25  <Phazorx> is camo german for lugano then?
14:13:52  <dihedral> Phazorx: why not use the original names
14:14:08  <Phazorx> dihedral: hard to coordinate with unsuaual names
14:14:13  <dihedral> all the asian counties aint on the map, so typing them should not be a prob :-D
14:14:25  <ammler> [16:12]	<Phazorx>	where is that damn swissman \o/
14:14:28  <Phazorx> i know where geneva is or milano... no idea where mailand or genf are
14:14:32  <Phazorx> ammler:
14:14:33  <dihedral> ammler: :-)
14:14:34  <ammler> genf=geneva
14:14:42  <Phazorx> that i know already
14:14:43  <Phazorx> and camo?
14:15:00  <ammler> we have 4 different languages in our country
14:15:05  <Vikthor> Phazorx: If so should not it be Geneve (French spelling I believe?)
14:15:24  <Phazorx> ammler: i know that but each canton should call their towns as they are
14:15:27  <TrueBrain> Gen`eve is Dutch spelling :p
14:15:37  <ammler> yes, GenÚve is best
14:15:39  <Phazorx> Vikthor: Geneve is the one i put
14:15:45  <Phazorx> Geneva is cyriilic
14:16:09  <ammler> hmm, Umlauts should be possible, no?
14:16:16  <dihedral> genf rhymes with senf
14:16:17  <ammler> and don't forget Amden :P
14:16:23  <Phazorx> ammler: there is some place named "camo" where lugano is suppsoed to be
14:16:27  <Phazorx> is that normal?
14:16:34  <Phazorx> and umlautsa are fine
14:16:39  <Phazorx> ammler: where is it , lol ?
14:16:58  <Phazorx> any other requests while i am on it ?
14:17:08  <dihedral> i want Obernhof in the game
14:17:12  <dihedral> it's on the lahn
14:17:17  <dihedral> between Limburg and Koblenz
14:17:27  <ammler> camo is a border village
14:17:28  <Vikthor> Just out of interest how does the spelling of Czech cities look like?
14:17:30  <dihedral> very small town
14:17:34  <Phazorx> give me location as intersection of lines between any major cities
14:17:40  <ammler> somewhere in italian side
14:17:57  <AntB> Can you not just put town names in their native language?
14:18:08  <dihedral> mossel ---|rhein|---- lahn
14:18:13  <Phazorx> Vikthor: "Pilsen" "PRag" "Budweis"
14:18:20  <hylje> AntB: some towns have several
14:18:23  <Vikthor> thats actually German
14:18:26  <dihedral> i was assuming you might have those towns on the map that i mentioned
14:18:38  <Phazorx> Vikthor: author was german then
14:18:46  <Vikthor> Probably
14:18:49  <AntB> Primary language then.. (that'll be a laugh for Wales!)
14:19:01  <dihedral> LOL
14:19:19  <Roujin> does it have llanfair ... you know what in it? ^^
14:19:24  <Phazorx> dihedral: bigger ones please
14:19:26  <dihedral> lets add a TS server and hear how people try to pronounce those towns ?
14:19:35  <Phazorx> liek karlsruhe :)
14:19:39  <hylje> Liek
14:19:42  <Roujin> llanfairpwylksjgaejrhlkaeasdngbjkwaensomething ;) you know what i mean
14:19:48  <AntB> anyone wanna try making Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch village ;)
14:19:53  <Vikthor> Phazorx: Correct ones are : "Plzeň" "Praha" "Budějovice" (more correctly "České Budějovice")
14:19:55  <Phazorx> ammler: i'll put amden if you tell me where it is
14:20:15  <Vikthor> But you can go without the extra diacritical marks
14:20:34  <ammler> hmm, not needed, is too small... :)
14:20:47  <ammler> and I miss our lage
14:20:50  <ammler> lake
14:21:06  <ammler> I will wait until the river patch
14:21:23  <Phazorx> heh okay
14:21:29  <Phazorx> dihedral: where is your town?
14:21:43  *** Deathmaker [] has quit [Quit: ...]
14:22:10  <AntB> anyone got any suggestions for drawin newGRf people?
14:22:31  <Phazorx> Vikthor: i broke rhone/rhine at lugano-bern line :)
14:22:40  <ammler> AntB looking at existing ones
14:22:58  <AntB> which GRF has people in?
14:23:13  <Phazorx> Vikthor: and ě/ň arent really possibkle :(
14:23:20  <dihedral> Wolf01 is working on people...
14:23:24  <dihedral> you could ask him
14:23:24  <ammler> ie. if you like to make new road sprites for wwottdgd, take comboraods
14:23:33  <ammler> or NARoads
14:23:57  <ammler> you can read them best with GRF2Html
14:24:06  <AntB> I was looking at NARoads for new lighting
14:24:23  <Vikthor> Phazorx: Yeah I know thats why I said you go without diacritical marks
14:24:32  <ammler> and of course the wiki of ttdpatch
14:25:10  <Vikthor> And in fact they are possible you just need either unifont.grf or specify system font that is capable of showing them
14:25:51  <ammler> can we force clients to use 32bpp?
14:26:06  <dihedral> i would rather not
14:26:21  <dihedral> and it does not make sense to add ONE 32bbp thing to the grf pack
14:26:48  * AntB doesn't like 32bpp
14:27:30  <Phazorx> Vikthor: i think slovakian would need corrections too
14:28:26  <SmatZ> hmm yes, µ is not in unifont.rf
14:28:54  <Vikthor> Phazorx: Ok, tell me I think I know the Slovakian names too
14:29:16  <Phazorx> hmm.. bielsko-biala ?
14:29:23  <Phazorx> zilina
14:29:28  <Vikthor> Åœilina
14:29:30  <Phazorx> ostrau
14:29:53  <Vikthor> but Biielsko-biala is polish  I believe
14:30:01  <Phazorx> cant find bratislava here
14:30:09  <Phazorx> Vikthor: yeah... but same region :)
14:30:09  <Vikthor> And Ostrau -  Ostrava is Czech
14:30:30  <Phazorx> Oppeln?
14:31:02  <Phazorx> Kaschau - that's romanian?
14:31:30  <Phazorx> and correct spelling for bratislava ?
14:31:34  <Phazorx> it's breslau here
14:31:35  <Vikthor> Bratislava
14:31:39  <dihedral> perhaps that town stuff should move to #wwottdgd, to not flood this channel :-)
14:31:43  <Phazorx> same as russian then
14:31:44  <Vikthor> OK
14:32:03  * dihedral slaps himslef for not doing so himself in the past
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14:34:23  <Sacro> eek tis him
14:35:26  <Bjarni> I don't this this language. Please speak English
14:35:49  <hylje> gibberish
14:36:37  <Sacro> this this?
14:36:52  <glx> like this :)
14:39:14  *** SmatZ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:41:01  <Bjarni> <-- Lego will never be the same again o_O
14:41:24  <Sacro> holy...
14:41:51  <Vikthor> Now I wonder wheter Tr..Bra.n is around :)
14:42:02  <Bjarni> I don't
14:42:46  * AntB would like to point the "YouTube link == Ban" part of the topic
14:43:09  <Bjarni> I know
14:43:10  <Sacro>
14:43:27  <Bjarni> I just don't care when it involves Lego™
14:44:35  <Sacro>
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14:50:16  <Phazorx> any poles around?
14:51:13  *** ufoun [~ja@] has joined #openttd
14:51:13  *** Roujin [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:51:16  * Sacro has a wooden pole
14:51:49  * dihedral does not want to know
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14:53:21  <Sacro> !seen Meush
14:53:22  <_42_> Sacro, I don't remember seeing Meush.
14:55:27  <Bjarni> @seen Meush
14:55:27  <DorpsGek> Bjarni: Meush was last seen in #openttd 9 weeks, 3 days, 5 hours, 49 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <MeusH> hey Wolf01 :)
14:55:40  <Sacro> hmmm
14:55:43  <Sacro> Tesco vs Denmark
14:56:30  <Sacro> :o
14:56:32  <Sacro> its a war!
14:56:37  <Bjarni> what?
14:56:56  <Sacro>
14:58:42  <hylje> lego trains
14:59:48  <Bjarni> wow
14:59:50  <Bjarni> just wow
14:59:59  <Bjarni> finally somebody who understands Danes
15:00:06  <Bjarni> listen to what Stu says
15:00:19  <Bjarni> and don't try to prevent our actions :D
15:01:59  <Bjarni> <-- Lego trains
15:02:20  <Bjarni> almost as many as I (would like to) have
15:03:05  <Phazorx> is it like walmart in states?
15:03:09  <hylje> so when you've conquered the world you'll spend your time at doing that
15:04:48  *** gule [] has left #openttd []
15:07:21  *** skidd13 [] has joined #openttd
15:07:37  <skidd13> Hi
15:08:39  <dihedral> hello
15:11:44  <skidd13> dihedral: Buyed a Lart for the BDUs yet? :D
15:12:51  <dihedral> :-D
15:12:57  <dihedral> i'll make one myself
15:13:35  <TrueBrain> Sacro / Bjarni: you both did read the topic, not?
15:15:42  * dihedral was thinking of the topic, just did not want to say anything
15:16:00  <dihedral> TrueBrain: go for it, just for the fun of it :-D
15:16:07  <TrueBrain> okay, because you request it
15:16:33  <TrueBrain> @ban Bjarni No Youtube links
15:16:38  <TrueBrain> I should learn him to understand @ban
15:16:39  <TrueBrain> @op
15:16:40  *** mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
15:16:44  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*] by TrueBrain
15:16:44  *** Bjarni was kicked from #openttd by TrueBrain [Bjarni]
15:16:51  <TrueBrain> now I feel much better :)
15:16:58  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!*] by TrueBrain
15:17:12  <dihedral> lol
15:17:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Phazorx> it's breslau here <- breslau is something entirely different... that's in "Oberschlesien" (Poland)
15:17:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> the german name of Bratislava is "Preßburg"
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15:18:28  <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: thanks for correcting...
15:18:34  <ln-> hmm, is there a german name for Firenze?
15:18:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> Florenz?
15:18:48  <ln-> (i.e. Florence in english)
15:19:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah
15:19:09  <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause2: We have settled on Bratislava, but thanks for corrction anyway
15:19:10  <Phazorx> well
15:19:10  <ln-> ok, quite much as unobvious.
15:19:15  <Phazorx> double mistake on authors acount
15:19:24  <Phazorx> cuz it was named breslau
15:19:34  <Phazorx> but was on danube
15:19:41  <Phazorx> so it is bratislava actualy
15:19:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> Breslau should be further north
15:19:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd help with that stuff, but i have to go now
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15:25:34  <Sacro> TrueBrain: he started it
15:25:49  <TrueBrain> Sacro: reason I didn't ban you :)
15:27:51  <hylje> TrueBrain: banned for being trolled successfully! :P
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15:28:36  <SpComb> Logs: (old: )
15:28:36  <Bjarni> !logs
15:28:45  * SpComb notes that OpenTTD isn't very playable over GPRS
15:28:53  <TrueBrain> SpComb: dah? :p
15:29:04  <SpComb> I'd say it fared better than BF1942, though
15:29:40  <SpComb> but I tried to zoom out, seized up for a minute, bunch of news messages came up, and then network synch error or whatnot
15:29:58  <TrueBrain> don't zoom out :p
15:30:15  <SpComb> loading the map from the server takes about five minutes
15:30:21  <hylje> haha
15:30:33  * SpComb is bored in a car
15:30:41  <Bjarni> TrueBrain: what is it with you and YouTube anyway?
15:30:49  <Bjarni> you got stocks in
15:30:49  <hylje> SpComb: you might want to play some starcraft
15:30:51  <TrueBrain> Bjarni: don't worry, it is not only me
15:30:56  <TrueBrain> and what is with you and bash/youtube links?
15:31:03  <Bjarni> are you sure?
15:31:10  <hylje> he can't accept the funny
15:31:25  <Bjarni> maybe he lacked Lego as a kid
15:31:41  <SpComb> hylje: I don't have it installed, how big is the download?
15:31:58  <hylje> starcraft is two cds with the expansion
15:32:04  <SpComb> I might be able to get about five megabytes dowloaded before the car trip's over
15:32:06  <TrueBrain> StarCraft was fun :)
15:32:06  <hylje> it works great over gprs/edge. ive tried.
15:32:09  <SpComb> two really small cds?
15:32:17  *** AntB [] has quit [Quit: *poof!* I am gone -=- Using ChatZilla]
15:32:22  <Bjarni> I think it's more like 1 Gb
15:32:24  <hylje> big enough to not be downloadable that way
15:32:42  <Bjarni> however if you rip the singleplayer scenario videos, then they aren't that big
15:32:43  <Bjarni> I think
15:33:05  *** ufoun [~ja@] has quit [Quit: Padla]
15:33:36  <SpComb> latency's horrible when in a moving vehicle
15:34:05  <Bjarni> really?
15:34:11  <Bjarni> wanna play quake?
15:34:14  <SpComb> hmm, not actually that bad right now... 700-1000ms idle, perhaps 1500ms under stress (me typing in ssh)
15:34:53  <SpComb> but it works better than the WLAN at university does...
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15:35:13  <SpComb> I swear that thing must have something which kills connections after they've been open for over a minute or two
15:35:30  <Bjarni> same thing with our wireless network
15:35:39  <Bjarni> except it appears to be computer specific
15:36:00  <Bjarni> some computers are rock stable while other computers are kicked right away
15:36:09  <Bjarni> even under the same conditions
15:36:30  <SpComb> I think I'm one of a tiny minority who even bothers to attempt to use the WLAN there
15:36:49  <Bjarni> I don't use WLAN anywhere
15:36:51  <hylje> depends on the device too
15:36:52  <SpComb> the wlan's good in some of the department buildings, but sucks in the main building
15:37:01  <hylje> some devices are good in keeping signal
15:37:03  <hylje> some are less so
15:37:21  <SpComb> == the computer science and electrical engineering people know stuff and use linksys hardware, the main building people don't and use ÃŒbercheap 11mbit dlink crap
15:37:37  * SpComb athers that IBM thinkpads are pretty good at WLAN reception
15:37:52  <Phazorx> hmm.. another goe quiz
15:37:58  <SpComb> the signal quality's not the issue, it's about 60%, ICMP ping to the gateway is pretty stable. TCP connections? Die after a while
15:38:16  <Phazorx> geman name apaprently "Viacenza", soth alps close to .it/.ch border
15:38:19  <Phazorx> what's proper name?
15:38:35  <SpComb> google it
15:38:43  <Sacro>
15:38:59  <Sacro> hmm, thats not it
15:39:14  <Phazorx> SpComb: i'm wikipediaing it
15:39:16  <Sacro>
15:39:17  <Phazorx> aint heling
15:39:19  <Sacro> thats the one
15:39:51  * Sacro reads about bubblesort on wikipedia
15:41:41  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: truelight * r11299 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Remove [API CHANGE]: FindXXXEngines are no longer available; use AIEngineList to select your engine
15:41:47  <dihedral> bubbles?...
15:41:52  <dihedral> bubbles...!
15:42:15  * dihedral believes TrueBrain is over doing the commits to noai :-D
15:42:15  <Sacro> static void BubbleSort<T>(IList<T> array) where T : IComparable<T>
15:42:17  <Sacro> :\
15:43:01  <huma> umm.. templates
15:43:32  <huma> Sacro: have you seen apl code? i wouldn't :\ here :)
15:46:52  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: truelight * r11300 /branches/noai/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.txt src/ai/api/ai_engine.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix: only show those engines you can purchase (all others return false with IsValidEngine)
15:51:10  <dihedral> nice
16:01:21  *** dihedral [] has quit [Quit: laters :-)]
16:06:27  <huma> engines?
16:07:03  <Phazorx> is it posisble to get snow on temp working on existing map
16:07:09  <Phazorx> or convert it to arctic?
16:11:27  <Belugas> not easily
16:11:40  <Belugas> check what richk67 did once, on the forums
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16:24:30  <Phazorx> Belugas: can you please specify more keywords for search ?
16:26:27  <Phazorx> snow_in_temp_r4442.patch ?
16:28:20  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
16:28:32  <Wolf01> hello
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16:35:24  <Belugas> exact, Phazorx
16:36:46  <Phazorx> Belugas: is there a chance that it still might work?
16:37:53  <Belugas> i doubt, truely
16:38:06  <Belugas> unless big big big work
16:38:26  <Belugas> damsn...  i lost the url...
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16:40:01  <Belugas> mmh..
16:40:09  <Belugas> it might be faisable
16:40:25  <Belugas> although it would be manual work
16:40:34  <mikl> The new text on raw material resources - 35% of an estimated 20,000k litres transported - does that mean that it can run out of oil when you reach 100%?
16:41:07  <hylje> yes
16:41:20  <Belugas> i don't think it will suddenly stop, but in the long run, yes
16:41:38  <mikl> meh :(
16:42:04  <mikl> Is it possible to disable that?
16:42:38  <Wolf01> maybe a random chance of "new seam of *material* found" to increase the industry life
16:43:30  <mikl> ugh, too much realism for my tastes... I don't want resources to run out, destroying my perfect rail empire
16:43:43  <hylje> well
16:43:50  <hylje> what's more fun than hacking stuff?
16:44:02  <Wolf01> when is perfect you have enough money to fund another raw industry
16:46:05  <Belugas> mikl, there is no wy to disable that.  If you do not like the behaviour, just don't use the grf.  it is not an option, it is a callback system
16:47:17  <ammler> !s/fund/prospect/
16:48:16  <Phazorx> mikl: actualy it overlaps
16:48:25  <Phazorx> and that reminds me that i should submit a bugreport
16:48:36  <Phazorx> mikl: it goes to 255 then back to 0
16:48:50  <Phazorx> however it looks like if it is >100% there is higher chance of decline and closer
16:49:22  <Phazorx> Belugas: manual work as in merging?
16:53:36  <Belugas> yes, since the patch was done prior of C++ arrival. And i suspect a lot more stuff has changed since then
16:53:45  <Belugas> so, manual work :)
16:54:35  <mikl> how does prospecting work - does it just create a new industry somewhere random?
16:54:36  <Belugas> i can't remember, Phazorx, did you tried the resource depletion stuff in ttdp?
16:55:09  <Belugas> mikl, yes
16:55:13  <Belugas> or at least, it tries
16:55:35  <Phazorx> Belugas: so basicaly it wont work, very sad...
16:55:45  <Phazorx> and no i did not try - i cant play ttdp for that long :)
16:56:32  *** ammler [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:58:07  <mikl> hmpfh - Is all this GRF-based, or is it a part of core?
16:58:22  *** Ammler [] has joined #openttd
16:58:54  * mikl finds it hard to keep track...
17:00:13  <Belugas> Phazorx, did i say it won't work?  no.  I said big work
17:00:24  <Belugas> up your sleeves
17:00:36  <Belugas> it' easier than writing newindustries ;)
17:01:02  <Phazorx> i'm upping my sleeves on some other parts of the deal there... and i hardly can be best candidate for recoding that one
17:01:03  <Belugas> mikl, it is what the grf author wrote
17:01:07  <Phazorx> but yeat it is easier :)
17:01:13  <mikl> Belugas: but which GRF is it...
17:01:29  <Phazorx> mikl: PBI/UKRSNI
17:01:31  <Belugas> not to me to tell you.  The info is available , jsut search
17:02:03  *** Dark_Link^ [] has joined #openttd
17:02:19  *** skidd13 [] has joined #openttd
17:02:35  <skidd13> Hi again
17:02:48  <Phazorx> skidd13...
17:03:02  <skidd13> ... <-?
17:03:06  <Phazorx> feel like recoding snow in temperate? ;)
17:04:49  <huma> oh, how about twisters? :)
17:05:22  *** AntB [~AntB-UK@] has joined #openttd
17:05:33  <huma> smashing train stations and all
17:06:11  <mikl> nah, forget twisters. We want volcanoes ;)
17:06:33  <mikl> I want to see those puny pixels melt :)
17:06:55  <huma> yea, that will do :)
17:07:59  *** Roujin [] has joined #openttd
17:08:00  <huma> snow would be cool though. traffic disturbance, icy roads.
17:10:38  <skidd13> NewGRF dissasters :D
17:18:49  <LeviathNL> Is there anyone here that uses TTRS and newbridges having the road bridges of ttrs and the railbridges of newbridges?
17:19:59  <Phazorx> LeviathNL: order matters
17:20:16  <Ammler> hmm, doesn't work
17:20:35  <Phazorx> amler you sure?
17:20:38  <LeviathNL> if i load newbridges before ttrs railbridges get all kind of glitches
17:20:42  <Ammler> well, not nice enough
17:20:52  <LeviathNL> wrong sprites used etc.
17:21:38  <Ammler> join the #wwottdgd server
17:21:52  <Ammler> there you see working combination
17:22:11  <LeviathNL> what ottd version?
17:22:26  <LeviathNL> i wait custom isn't?
17:22:43  <Ammler> LeviathNL: join #wwottdgd
17:22:49  <Ammler> there is a link in the topic
17:22:56  <LeviathNL> i remembered
17:24:14  <Ammler> best results I got, is newbridges with a road replacement like combined or NA
17:25:05  <Phazorx> hmm... is there a way to control density of "many random industries" in editor?
17:25:35  <Phazorx> i disabled "many of same kind per town" and "same type close" in patches but that had no effect
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17:30:55  <LeviathNL> Ammler, I see there are still some glitches with rail-bridges
17:31:36  <Phazorx> glitches?
17:32:22  <LeviathNL> and the roadbridges I found (3) are not ttrs iirc
17:32:57  <LeviathNL> Phazorx, yes. Is that a strange choise of words?
17:33:05  <LeviathNL> *choice
17:34:28  <Phazorx> LeviathNL: define glitches, i mean i figuew it is something you did not expected to see but whate xactly is it ?
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17:35:55  <LeviathNL>
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17:38:07  <Ammler> LeviathNL: still on the server, can you show me the glitch?
17:39:39  <LeviathNL> Ammler: see ingame chat
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17:45:14  <Phazorx> Belugas
17:45:24  <Phazorx> is there a way to control density of "many random industries" in editor?
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17:47:29  <glx> why?
17:52:29  <Phazorx> because it puts too many of them?
17:52:46  <Phazorx> even if i set patch options that limit it
17:54:39  <Ammler>
17:54:52  <Ammler> Phazorx: ^^ did you see that ever?
17:54:58  <Ammler> (or someone else)
17:55:35  <Phazorx> doamin fails to resolv
17:55:40  <Phazorx> a nm  worked 3rd time
17:56:13  <Phazorx> never saw the cross one
17:58:24  <LeviathNL> Ammler, is that a static ground grf?
17:58:31  <Ammler> 32bpp
17:59:01  <Ammler> also the gui symbols
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18:00:57  <Belugas> Phazorx, no, there is no control over it.  Many is ... many
18:01:12  <Phazorx> Belugas: but it is too many
18:01:12  <Belugas> don't remember the code behind it, tough
18:01:31  <Phazorx> and it doesnt obey patch options from the looks of it
18:01:39  <Phazorx> as it put 5 refineries enxt to same city
18:01:55  <Phazorx> although i set to permit only one per and none clsoe of same type
18:02:01  <Belugas> it's always  too many for someone and too little for someone else...
18:02:19  <Ammler> grfs don't care about patch settings
18:02:19  <Phazorx> well you wanan see a screenshot of what i call too many?
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18:04:28  <Ammler> hmm, I miss a feature to export/import cfg settings...
18:06:20  <Phazorx> Ammler: placing industries isnt really grf functionality as i ithnk
18:07:04  <Ammler> I spoke about NewIndustries GRFs
18:07:33  <Phazorx> still placement has nothing to do wth it
18:07:41  <Phazorx>
18:08:03  <Phazorx> there is one city and 11 food plants on the map
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18:29:10  <Belugas> you know what many random means?  it just mean that.  nothing more
18:29:12  <Belugas> many
18:29:14  <Belugas> random
18:29:24  <Belugas> it's not only the type
18:29:34  <Belugas> it is the placement too
18:29:44  <Belugas> and the number
18:29:46  <Belugas> so...
18:29:56  <Belugas> you're in edort?
18:29:58  <Belugas> cool
18:30:06  <Belugas> perform many,
18:30:12  <Belugas> and chop whta you don't like
18:30:21  <Belugas> end of discussion
18:32:17  <Ammler> nice compromiss :)
18:33:05  <LeviathNL> Maybe someone in this channel can help me :  I have a little nfo question, in pikka's viaduct this line:    52 * 6  07 83 01 < FF 0C   as I understand it it checks if the value of the climate (01, 02, 03 or 04) is less then FF. isn't this always the case?
18:33:37  <Phazorx> Belugas: it is much easier to add (click same button more) than to remove extras on 11x11 map
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18:41:49  <Belugas> LeviathNL, you may be right.  but i'm not too familiar with actions 07
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18:42:52  <Belugas> Phazorx, so just add them by hand and don't rely on the many random button.  Sorry if it sound stupid and harsh, but i have no intention to change that for the time being
18:43:08  <Belugas> many other more usefull horses to beat
18:43:33  <Phazorx> it would be nice to get a pointer where is the loop thata ctualy does the creatin from editor is
18:43:45  <Ammler> LeviathNL: thats a simple GOTO command
18:43:45  <Phazorx> cuz aparently it is not same as for random game generation
18:44:12  <LeviathNL> Ammler, _minime_ already explained :) thanks anyway
18:45:30  <Ammler> LeviathNL: I would use GRF2HTML to look into grfs
18:46:33  <LeviathNL> I'll try it
18:47:33  <Maarten> Maarten's servers are back up :) Just did a quick upgrade from Ubuntu 7.04 to 7.10 :P
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18:49:36  <Belugas> Phazorx : industry_gui.cpp:278
18:49:37  <Belugas> have fun
18:52:07  <Phazorx> thanks
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19:11:56  <Phazorx> Belugas: new industry or industry creation are different procedures?
19:12:33  <Phazorx> cuz industry_cmd.cpp:1656 	NB_NUMOFINDUSTRY = 11, << that looks liek a strange hardcode
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19:22:50  <Belugas> it has nothung to do with the real industry numbers
19:23:14  <Belugas> it is the number of cells that hold the industry multiplier
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19:24:22  <welterde> hi
19:24:30  <Belugas> hello welterde
19:24:46  <TrueBrain> how can we help you today? :)
19:25:14  <Belugas> Phazorx, each industry has an appearing chance. It is multiplied by the digit found at the index it is refering to
19:25:31  <Belugas> depends of the level of difficulty as well as the climat
19:25:34  <Belugas> e
19:25:41  <welterde> TrueBrain: make openttd connect to my model railway ;)
19:25:52  <TrueBrain> give us an interface
19:26:02  <Phazorx> Belugas: i got that idea... but what happens for industries that are not defined there?
19:26:49  <Belugas> i beg you pardon?
19:29:19  <Phazorx> i translated number of cells that hold insustry chances of appearing into industry types
19:29:27  <Belugas> wrong
19:29:36  <Phazorx> type being ind_blackhole for example
19:29:59  <Belugas> you're mixing raisins and bananas :D
19:30:16  <Phazorx> quite possible
19:30:24  <Phazorx> by type has to have seome difintion to it
19:30:53  <Belugas> look carefully at PlaceInitialIndustry
19:31:00  <Belugas> line 1675
19:31:33  <Belugas> follow work of varaible amoount
19:31:55  <Belugas> and never assume anything, make sure you do understand
19:32:00  <Belugas> do not jump on conclusion
19:32:39  <Phazorx> also, was a bit lost there for w while, then function is called second param is defined as chance
19:32:44  <Phazorx> but when it gets ehre it is amount
19:32:51  <Belugas> INDUSTRYLIFE_BLACK_HOLE is related to the 4 different groups of industries, by the way...
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19:33:32  <Phazorx> Belugas: i assumes these as most generic types of categorization and that can be hardcoded
19:33:48  <Phazorx> what are industry cells are which you mentioned i have no idea about atm
19:34:10  <Belugas> look at _numof_industry_table
19:34:17  <Belugas> on 1662
19:34:22  <Phazorx> looking
19:34:35  <Phazorx> rowsa are clear - that's dificulaty scaling
19:34:41  <Phazorx> but what are columns?
19:35:10  <Belugas> multipliers
19:35:18  <Phazorx> why  there are 11 of them?
19:35:26  <Belugas> now, look at build_industry.h:1193
19:35:33  <Phazorx> oh boy, i shifted num wrong way...
19:36:01  <Belugas> lne says : 	   1680, 0xB3333333,                       2, 3, 0, 0,    8, 8, 0, 0,        215,
19:36:03  <Phazorx> err... dont see that in root?
19:36:21  <Belugas> look in table/...
19:36:49  <Phazorx> looking
19:36:53  <Belugas> the digits that are important are the "2,3, 0, 0,   8, 8, 0, 0"
19:37:02  <Belugas> take the first one
19:37:03  <Belugas> 2
19:37:38  <Phazorx> as i scrol ldown i see them change in diff industries
19:37:44  <Belugas> it is the one refering to the 3th entry of _numof_industry_table
19:39:44  <Phazorx> kinda makes sesne now
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19:40:41  <Phazorx> so it is a parallel categorization of industries determining their chances of appearance under different circumstances per climate?
19:41:00  <Phazorx> and i assume new ones brought by GRFs are defined in same way
19:41:01  <Belugas> so, the NB_NUMOFINDUSTRY simply states the maximum number of entries of _numof_industry_table, regarding the ingame aprrearance/random a[reauc
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19:41:45  <Belugas> industryspec:
19:41:45  <Belugas> 	byte appear_ingame[NUM_LANDSCAPE];    ///< Probability of appearance in game
19:41:45  <Belugas> 	byte appear_creation[NUM_LANDSCAPE];  ///< Probability of appearance during map creation
19:41:56  <Belugas> any more question?
19:42:13  <Phazorx> no that one is clear more or less
19:42:26  <Belugas> 2 = temperate, 3 = arctic, 0 = tropic, 0 = toyland
19:42:39  <Belugas> same for 8,8,0,0
19:43:38  <Phazorx> and 1-11 is just scaling
19:43:57  <Belugas> yes
19:44:00  <Phazorx> i guess you wanted additional flexibility determining proportions
19:44:13  <Belugas> and is not related to industry numbers at all
19:44:21  <Belugas> not me, CS :)
19:44:23  <Phazorx> i was reading these numbers in build_industry.h as direct factors rather than references before
19:44:42  <Belugas> took me a time to understand too ;)
19:45:04  <Phazorx> Belugas: but these proportions need to be redefined for NI though
19:45:10  <Phazorx> (thanks for exmplanation btw)
19:45:11  <Belugas> with newindu, if ever the number is above 11, it will used as such, wihouth iuntertrepation
19:45:25  <Belugas> interpretation
19:45:28  <Phazorx> ahh... ncie failback
19:45:35  <Belugas> no choice
19:45:43  <Phazorx> cap it :)
19:46:15  <Phazorx> and i woudl really liek a way to separetly generate primaris from rest of industries
19:46:26  <Belugas> expand?
19:46:55  <Phazorx> cuz with PBI and ECS some industries are not available in desired amount, throuws the game out of balance
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19:47:39  <Phazorx> Belugas: i mean that of multiple industries take cargo of particular type produced by some industry type as required
19:47:50  <Phazorx> there whould be a way to put more industries of that type
19:47:55  <Phazorx> with ECS epsecialy
19:48:17  <Phazorx> chains are relatively complicated and industries require multiple cargo types
19:48:35  <Phazorx> meaning that ratio between primary and secondary ones needs to reflect that
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19:51:23  <Belugas> what we have seen is not the only factor allowing or prohibiting an industry to appear
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19:54:35  * Sacro wants bananaphone for his ringtone
19:55:48  <Belugas> Phazorx, it is not up to us to deal with the number of industries
19:55:56  <Belugas> it is p to the author.
19:56:04  <Belugas> the only responsibility we have,
19:56:16  <Belugas> is to make it so the system obeys what he wrote
19:56:26  <Belugas> not how we think it shold work
19:56:35  <Phazorx> i hope proportions can be defined in grfs though
19:57:03  <Phazorx> separately from NI grfs themselves...cuz it would make sense either to mod originals or code mods
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20:06:10  <glx> Phazorx: grfs can check how many industries of a given type are already built
20:06:34  <glx> then can even allow only 1 industry of a given type on the entire map
20:06:39  <Phazorx> that's nice
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20:06:47  <Phazorx> but issue is quite the reverse
20:06:49  <glx> but it's up to the grf author
20:06:52  <Phazorx> i'm taking about map generator
20:07:10  <Phazorx> which i cant even see reading the patch options not only the grfs
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20:10:39  <Gonozal_VIII> i have no idea what that was supposed to mean
20:11:25  <Belugas> i do
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20:32:09  <TrueBrain> Lalalaaa
20:32:29  <SpComb> rahrahrahrah
20:32:55  <TrueBrain> I hate it that when you are waiting for a new episode to be released, that people repost an older one
20:32:56  <hylje> #openttd choir
20:33:00  <hylje> do want?
20:33:00  <TrueBrain> should be banned
20:33:38  <SpComb> they're playing singstar in this room that I'm in
20:33:42  <SpComb> and the WLAN's lagging here as well
20:35:14  <TrueBrain> poor SpComb
20:40:33  *** LeviathNL [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:41:00  <Bjarni> SpComb: who are those people who torture you?
20:43:09  * Sacro codes in C#
20:43:15  <Sacro> have to implement bubblesort
20:44:51  <Bjarni> try randomsort
20:45:01  <Bjarni> it fits better with the theory of C#
20:45:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> i like lossy sort the most
20:45:51  <Bjarni> Sacro: why are you learning programming at this level?
20:45:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> for every input, you output "1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10"
20:46:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> that _is_ a sorted list after all ;)
20:46:05  <Sacro> Bjarni: at what level?
20:46:15  <Bjarni> like bubblesort
20:46:24  <Sacro> is that a high or low level?
20:46:26  <Bjarni> and the question you posted the other day
20:46:33  <Bjarni> what do you think? :)
20:46:44  <Sacro> what question?
20:46:46  * Sacro is confused
20:46:54  * Bjarni noticed
20:47:10  <Bjarni> it was an old exam question or something
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20:47:18  <TrueBrain> Sacro: don't feel bad, when Bjarni starts talking, everyone is confused
20:47:25  <Bjarni> :P
20:47:25  <Sacro> TrueBrain: ah, alright
20:47:27  <Sacro> Bjarni: oh that...
20:47:34  <Sacro> hmm, we have that exam next week
20:47:48  <Bjarni> the exam where you know the questions?
20:47:50  <Sacro> and C# is a lot more picky than C/PHP
20:47:55  <Sacro> no, that was a practice
20:48:06  <Sacro> PHP/C will let you do stupid things
20:48:16  <Bjarni> so will C#
20:48:26  <Bjarni> you might have to be more clever to do stupid stuff though
20:48:27  <Sacro> no, it just throws exceptions
20:48:43  <Bjarni> hence you have to be more clever to get around that
20:48:54  <Sacro> Unhandled Exception: System.FormatException: Input string was not in the correct format
20:50:26  <Bjarni> Sacro: in plain C what will a contain after this line: "unsigned int a = 2 < 4;"?
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20:50:56  <Sacro> 32?
20:51:01  <TrueBrain> why doesn't imdb not have some filter system, where you can select air-year, give the userscore it should have, ...
20:51:03  <Bjarni> 32????
20:51:05  <TrueBrain> now finding a good movie is hard
20:51:20  <Sacro> or maybe 16
20:51:29  <Bjarni> how did you get the number 32???
20:51:34  <Bjarni> or 16 for that matter
20:51:42  <Sacro> i did << instead of <
20:51:44  <Sacro> whoops
20:51:49  <Bjarni> :P
20:51:59  <Sacro> won't it contain 0?
20:52:08  <Bjarni> no
20:52:41  <Sacro> :\
20:52:56  <hylje> divide by zero
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20:53:51  <Bjarni> a little help: look at < before = meaning you should deal with "2 < 4" before =
20:54:05  <Sacro> yes
20:54:10  <Sacro> 2 < 4 = true
20:54:19  <Bjarni> is true == 0?
20:54:19  <Gonozal_VIII> ?
20:54:21  <Sacro> true = 0
20:54:22  <Sacro> yes
20:54:27  <Bjarni> NO
20:54:28  <hylje> thats silly
20:54:38  <Bjarni> wtf are you talking about???
20:54:38  <hylje> True is True, and thats it
20:55:05  <Bjarni> <Sacro> true = 0 <-- well, I would reply with "0" :P
20:55:43  *** dihedral [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:55:52  <Bjarni> Sacro: then what number is false?
20:56:07  <Sacro> 1
20:56:14  <Bjarni> wrong
20:56:18  <Sacro> -1
20:56:21  <hylje> the real question is, what number is FILE_NOT_FOUND
20:56:22  <Bjarni> ...
20:56:26  <Sacro> hylje: 2
20:57:21  <Bjarni> Sacro: in plain C (remember I started the question by telling which language I'm talking about) wrong is 0... remember that!!!
20:57:43  <Bjarni> err
20:57:47  <Bjarni> s/wrong/false
20:57:59  <Bjarni> so when false is 0, then true can't be 0
20:58:11  <Sacro> yes it can
20:58:19  <Sacro> #define true false
20:58:22  <Sacro> and #define false true
20:58:31  <Bjarni> dammit
20:58:43  <Sacro> swaps them nicely
20:58:47  <Bjarni> the question is: int a = 2 < 4;
20:59:04  <Bjarni> what will a contain after that?
20:59:30  <Bjarni> it's not affected by some weird defines
20:59:31  <Sacro> 0
20:59:35  <Sacro> or maybe 1
20:59:37  <Sacro> or ><
20:59:57  <Bjarni> wait, it was unsigned int, not int
21:00:17  <Bjarni> <Sacro> or maybe 1 <-- finally you said something right
21:00:23  <Bjarni> maybe even more right than you think
21:00:34  <Sacro> i don't think muhc
21:01:05  <Bjarni> I guess I better tell you. It's a trick question. It's 1 on x86 while it's 0xFFFFFFFF on PPC
21:01:45  <Bjarni> but you failed to reached the point where the tricky question began because you didn't even reach 1
21:01:52  <Ammler> @calc 2 < 4
21:01:53  <DorpsGek> Ammler: 1
21:02:27  <Bjarni> plain C will see that as a true/false reply and it depends on the CPU what number true is
21:02:50  <Bjarni> looks like DorpsGek runs on x86 (or is coded cleverly)
21:03:15  <Bjarni> Sacro: what are you studying?
21:03:30  <Sacro> Bjarni: Computer Science
21:03:58  <Bjarni> how does it feel to be told about programming from a non CS student?
21:04:16  <Gonozal_VIII> i only know java and there the compiler would complain about squeezing a boolean into an integer
21:04:37  <Bjarni> I said that it's plain C
21:04:56  <hylje> cs isnt just programming
21:05:01  <Bjarni> plain C lacks a boolean var. You will have to use an int (or byte or whatever)
21:05:12  <Gonozal_VIII> ah
21:05:39  <Gonozal_VIII> thats lots of wasted bits
21:05:39  <Bjarni> but if you study CS, then you should know that C and C++ (and other languages as well) reads 0 as false and != 0 as true
21:05:58  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r11301 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix: water check when building industries didn't work
21:06:03  <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> thats lots of wasted bits <-- java allocates 32 bit each time you use a bool
21:06:06  <hylje> Gonozal_VIII: one can use bitmasks to have several bools in one
21:06:10  <Bjarni> that's even worse
21:06:29  <Gonozal_VIII> 32? not 8?
21:06:50  <Bjarni> yeah you can do as hylje said if you want to save memory
21:07:16  <hylje> ive never even used them
21:07:24  <Bjarni> I think I read that it will take 32 bit so that it will be aligned correctly in the memory for fast read/write
21:07:46  <Bjarni> you can also use a char or unsigned char (both 8 bit) in C if you want to store a bool
21:07:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> java is totally assuming you run on 32bit machines
21:08:14  <Bjarni> that's the usual way if you have limited hardware
21:09:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is especially a problem if you use 64 bit variables, they have to be mapped to two 32bit variables, you cannot simply use a native 64bit variable on 64bit machines
21:10:01  <Bjarni> I didn't think of that, but yeah, the java virtual machine is 32 bit
21:10:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's not a big problem now, but imagine 2 or 5 years in the future, when everyone has 64bit computers
21:11:07  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: then the VM will be 100% 64bit :p
21:11:40  <Gonozal_VIII> 64 bit booleans....
21:11:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> TrueBrain: i don't see that happening
21:11:48  <TrueBrain> but remember that any compiler has simular 'problems'. If you send a bool via a parameter in C, it is also send as 32bit
21:11:48  <Bjarni> for all we know java isn't a big programming platform in 5 years. Something way better might turn up
21:12:05  <hylje> cough python
21:12:05  <TrueBrain> in fact, even if you send a 8 or 16 byte param, it is send as 32bit
21:12:15  <TrueBrain> or 64bit, on a 64bit CPU (with compiler)
21:12:52  <TrueBrain> for example, on a MIPS it is much faster to work with 32bit variables, than with any other
21:12:59  <TrueBrain> reading a 8bit var takes 2 clockcycles more
21:13:01  <Bjarni> but that's because it stores one variable in one register and all the registers has the same size
21:13:10  <Bjarni> so it's kind of a hardware limitation
21:13:14  <Bjarni> not a serious one though
21:13:16  <TrueBrain> yes, it all is :)
21:13:25  <TrueBrain> for example, an ALU most of the time is optimized for N bits
21:13:34  <TrueBrain> and so working in that size, is always faster
21:13:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, to read 8 bit, you read 32 bit, then read a bitmask, and then AND the bitmask
21:14:00  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: the bitmask can be compiled by the controller
21:14:03  <TrueBrain> but basicly, yes
21:14:53  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r11302 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp newgrf.cpp): -Fix (r9520): typo
21:16:07  <TrueBrain> so short: losing bits happen all over the place ;)
21:16:49  <Gonozal_VIII> 11302? nightly is 11293, 9 changes in 3 hours?
21:16:59  <glx> Gonozal_VIII: NoAI
21:17:04  <TrueBrain> got a problem with it? :p
21:17:05  <Bjarni> well, I wouldn't consider the one var one register an issue. The issue could be if you need to store say 100k bits in memory, then you would like to make every bit count and not store each of them in a 32 bit var
21:17:15  <Gonozal_VIII> aah
21:17:18  <Sacro> TrueBrain: you don't wanna lose your bits
21:17:26  <Bjarni> it's not like it matters if an app can save 4k by compressing vars today
21:17:27  <TrueBrain> Sacro: good point :p
21:17:56  <Sacro> unless you like unix...
21:18:53  <Bjarni> actually I think even unix sacrifices RAM for speed today (though not in any extreme way)
21:19:03  <Bjarni> using every single bit will make the app slower
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21:20:05  <hylje> gcc can optimize that stuff too
21:20:08  <TrueBrain> Bjarni: everything makes a compromise between memory and speed
21:20:14  <Bjarni> yeah
21:20:18  <TrueBrain> from the start of a CPU, back in 1965, even now
21:20:31  <TrueBrain> example: ia64 puts, what, 12 opcodes in 1 command
21:20:38  <TrueBrain> more memory, faster (parallel) processing
21:20:48  <TrueBrain> (as they have to be unrelated)
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21:22:48  <Bjarni> yeah CPUs tend to try to do parallel stuff today
21:23:11  <Bjarni> it's kind of cool, but it works best if you code in a way to allow it to work in parallel
21:23:28  <TrueBrain> parallel coding comes in so many ways these days
21:23:43  <Bjarni> yeah
21:24:07  <Bjarni> singlethreaded parallel coding is interesting... though no teacher ever talked about it
21:24:15  <Bjarni> at least not while I'm around
21:24:19  <TrueBrain> Stackless Python
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21:25:10  <TrueBrain> (each class in a thread, no direct data-sharing (all via channels))
21:25:12  <hylje> stackless is awesome
21:25:19  <TrueBrain> best way of parallel coding in my opinion
21:25:19  <TrueBrain> most clean
21:25:24  <TrueBrain> just an other way of thinking
21:25:30  <TrueBrain> instead of doing: OtherClass.gimmeyourdata
21:25:41  <TrueBrain> you have to give it through a channel, meaning making a function instead of direct access
21:26:01  <TrueBrain> (so: SetValue and GetValue, instead of value, which is a good thing anyway)
21:26:17  <TrueBrain> hylje: it is. The C implementation (the only one I could find that is) sucks sadly enough :p
21:26:20  <Bjarni> I remember reading an example on how to make good use of both ALUs in a G5 and I thought "this example isn't really good. All G5s has a velocity engine and a velocity engine can do this task faster than the CPU"
21:26:42  <Bjarni> it did tell the principle of how it works though
21:26:45  <Bjarni> so it worked
21:27:46  <Bjarni> but if I had written it, then I would have at least mentioned the velocity engine as an option to consider if you had to deal with this task and speed could be an issue
21:28:08  <TrueBrain> "de beste stuurlui staan aan wal"
21:29:56  <Gonozal_VIII> stuurlui?
21:29:58  <Bjarni> I have problems understanding that sentence, but I guess it's because I don't know the word "stuurlui" :/
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21:30:24  <TrueBrain> it means that those who are not doing it, are always telling it can be done better
21:30:32  <Bjarni> hehe
21:30:33  <Bjarni> true
21:30:34  <SpComb> Bjarni: the students at the school that I'm alumni at
21:30:35  <TrueBrain> now go find in your dict which sentence you use
21:31:35  <Bjarni> I don't have a Dutch-Danish dictionary... I found an English<->Dutch one online a while ago, but it was no good
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21:32:02  <Bjarni> SpComb: ok.... took you a while to reply... did you sing well?
21:32:03  <hylje> are you implying Bjarni has a set (dict) of canned responses?
21:32:14  <SpComb> Bjarni: no, I'm spending more time with my camera than with my laptop
21:32:31  <Bjarni> you mean that there are girls as well?
21:33:03  <SpComb> what's that supposed to mean? :P
21:33:08  <SpComb> there are, in fact, yes
21:33:20  * SpComb has spent the last three hours wandering around the building with his camera
21:33:25  <SpComb> about three hundred photos so far
21:33:31  <Bjarni> <SpComb> [...] I'm spending more time with my camera
21:33:34  <SpComb> exactly 300, in fact
21:33:44  <Gonozal_VIII> aaaand.. why?
21:33:49  <Bjarni> girls
21:33:55  <LeviathNL> Is it in TTDP possible to add parts to articulated vehicles?
21:33:57  <Gonozal_VIII> around the building?
21:34:18  *** Jezral is now known as TinoDidriksen
21:34:19  <SpComb> spending time with my camera does not nesecarily an indication of there being girls around
21:34:48  *** prakti [] has quit [Quit: Quitting .... Hackedi...hackedi...weg.]
21:34:51  * SpComb attempted to get some good shots of a chess game
21:34:55  <Bjarni> if you take 300 pictures instead of being on IRC, then I presume that something interesting goes on
21:35:00  <TrueBrain> bah, I am bored
21:35:14  <Bjarni> looks like you have something in common with SpComb
21:36:05  <Gonozal_VIII> i didn't know that taking pictures of chess games is such a widespread hobby
21:36:15  <TrueBrain> maybe I should play OpenTTD, for a chance...
21:36:35  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:37:59  <Gonozal_VIII> almost forgot that i still have a game running
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21:38:11  <TrueBrain> or freeciv
21:38:15  <TrueBrain> more challenging :)
21:40:32  <Sacro> hylje: do we need to run a turing test on Bjarni ?
21:40:45  <hylje> go ahead
21:41:14  <hylje> TrueBrain: because you dont know the mechanics inside out?
21:42:50  <Gonozal_VIII> today i was playing openttd in the train on my way home and didn't realise that some kids, maybe 4 or 5 years old, where watching from behind until they asked me to build a bus stop in that nice looking town near the lake...
21:43:00  <TrueBrain> hylje: partly, and also because it has fights :)
21:43:09  <hylje> ooh
21:43:11  <hylje> combat
21:43:40  <TrueBrain> turing test on Bjarni is easy
21:43:43  <TrueBrain> @kick Bjarni turing test
21:43:43  *** Bjarni was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [turing test]
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21:43:44  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
21:44:01  <TrueBrain> see, he is a bot
21:45:03  <Prof_Frink> What, because he has autorejoin?
21:45:13  <TrueBrain> yes :p
21:45:31  <hylje> thats settled then
21:45:53  <TrueBrain> I Still wonder what is exactly needed to make a computer human-like
21:46:38  <hylje> stupidity
21:46:48  <Prof_Frink> hylje: We have that
21:46:55  <Prof_Frink> See: TT's AI
21:47:04  <Gonozal_VIII> AS then
21:47:13  <TrueBrain> it does act like a human in a strange way, indeed
21:47:14  <Prof_Frink> Nah
21:47:20  <Prof_Frink> Artificial Insanity
21:47:28  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
21:48:23  <TrueBrain> and EVE: Online is boring!
21:48:29  <TrueBrain> I am still looking for a game with a nice market system
21:48:34  <TrueBrain> wher eit is fun to work in the market
21:48:42  <TrueBrain> in EVE it is a bit too boring for my taste :p
21:48:53  <TrueBrain> (Waiting 20 minutes to go from sectorA to sector B is a bit ... )
21:50:41  *** Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has joined #openttd
21:51:24  <TrueBrain> Zr40: switched to IPv6? :p
21:51:45  <Zr40> switched again :)
21:51:57  <TrueBrain> I gave up on IPv6 several years ago :p
21:52:07  <TrueBrain> all my ISPs I switched too didn't support it
21:52:08  <TrueBrain> not 1 bit
21:52:44  <Zr40> well, my ISP does kind of support it (you could call it beta), but I'm not using that
21:55:38  *** peterbrett [] has joined #openttd
21:56:00  <Zr40> I wasn't aware 'high definition' means 'audible noise'
21:56:14  <hylje> ha
21:57:56  <SpComb>
21:58:06  <SpComb> @ Bjarni
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22:03:02  *** stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
22:03:09  <TrueBrain> lol, I love sites that 'closed' their beta registration
22:03:14  <TrueBrain> you click on register, you are redirected via a meta tag
22:03:21  <TrueBrain> so you press ESC, fill in the form, and it works
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22:15:07  *** mode/#openttd [+v Bjarni] by ChanServ
22:15:07  *** mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ
22:15:07  *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ
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22:30:07  <dihedral> hello
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22:33:29  <Maarten> anyone know in which chan the ircops reside on this network? /list doesn't seem to work
22:33:47  <Zr40> #oftc maybe?
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22:40:48  <LeviathNL> strange, i loaded ttrs3 before PBI, the engineers yard uses the ttrs road but the food processing plant doesn't ....
22:41:28  <Rubidium> sounds like a bug in the newgrf to me
22:41:49  <Rubidium> but then again, I'm not sure... you've got to check whether it exhibits the same behaviour in TTDP
22:43:28  <LeviathNL> I'll check
22:45:05  <Gonozal_VIII> is that a different food processing plant than the ecs one? because there are no road tiles
22:47:07  *** Ammler [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:47:19  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11303 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs):
22:47:19  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Fix: EnsureNoVehicle and EnsureNoVehicleOnGround were both used to check
22:47:19  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: whether there was no vehicle on the ground, except that the former didn't take
22:47:19  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: care of aircraft shadows. So now we only use EnsureNoVehicleOnGround.
22:48:48  <LeviathNL> Maybe it is because the Food PP uses not only road but also a lorry bay sprite
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22:50:40  <Gonozal_VIII> lorry bay is also changed with ttrs
22:53:32  <LeviathNL> I know but maybe using it (by another grf) is not possible with the current grf specs
22:54:48  <Rubidium> it should be possible, at least in this situation that is
22:55:12  <Rubidium> as the first GRF "just" replaces the road sprite
22:55:41  <Rubidium> you'll probably see that the road for the engineerings yard is TTRS when you first load PBI and then TTRS.
22:57:29  <LeviathNL> I just decoded PBI and the road sprites used in the food processing plant is in the psx. (just a copy of the original it seems)
22:59:14  <Ammller> would be cool, if you could drive in with lorry to that food plant
23:00:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> you mean an "anonymous" station like on oil rigs?
23:01:13  <Gonozal_VIII> i thought about that too, but that could never handle enough traffic
23:01:20  <LeviathNL> is the oil rig station hard coded or can it be done with a grf?
23:01:43  <Gonozal_VIII> fishing boats have that too so grf...
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23:02:30  <Ammller> Gonozal_VIII: hmm, indeed, but eyecandy would be nice
23:05:02  <LeviathNL> Would be nice that if you build a station against the industry station tile it would get the name of the station so it can be used in the orders like any other station
23:05:29  <Gonozal_VIII> :D
23:07:26  <dihedral> and how would that work when 2 companies build a station to the same ind LeviathNL ?
23:07:27  <Gonozal_VIII> but there would be problems with other players or the ai then when only one player has direct access to the industry
23:07:44  * dihedral beat Gonozal_VIII to it
23:09:01  <Gonozal_VIII> the industry would have to expand the station by itself if it's overcrowded
23:11:55  <LeviathNL> all company's would be able to visit the industries stationtile
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23:41:00  <dihedral> good night... bed is calling me
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23:42:12  <dihedral> quit #wwottdgd join hand have fun
23:42:23  <dihedral> with a / next time :-D
23:42:27  *** dihedral [] has quit [Quit: #wwottdgd join hand have fun]
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