Log for #openttd on 26th October 2007:
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00:00:08  <Belugas> guys, do you think that we have nothing to do?  do you thing we are only there to do all the stuff you cannot do?
00:00:09  <Belugas> please...
00:00:24  <Belugas> you can work out things by yourselves too...
00:00:34  <Belugas> look at AntB who is doing grf!
00:00:36  <Phazorx> if they behave like they are suppsoed to - yes
00:00:38  <AntB> i've been trying to
00:00:53  <Phazorx> if you tell me it should do one thing and does the other
00:01:00  <Phazorx> it gets rather comlicated to work it out
00:01:04  <Phazorx> without knowing how it worksd
00:01:46  <Belugas> same in here...
00:01:59  <glx> we don't know all the code
00:04:07  <Belugas> nor all the expected behaviours
00:05:27  <Belugas> Phazorx, i would do the same think as you would do, i.e.: put a tracer in the code and follow the process.  if ever you do that, of course
00:05:31  <Belugas> boring process...
00:05:42  <Belugas> right now, i'm coding, you know, for the fun of it
00:05:49  <AntB> bug catchers :D
00:05:51  <Belugas> been a while i have not done it
00:11:00  <Belugas> lol
00:11:17  <Belugas> i don't even remember how to had a setting :P
00:11:44  <Ammller> :
00:11:47  <Ammller> )
00:14:07  <fjb> Godd night.
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00:18:01  <Phazorx> Belugas: not sure how to fix it but i know how to hack it
00:18:18  <Belugas> that's already a start.
00:18:20  <Phazorx> changing dificulty params resets things so grfed values are applied
00:18:27  <Belugas> can i look at ot?
00:18:37  <Phazorx> not sure if it will be carried after saving tho
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00:18:41  <Phazorx> Belugas: the scn?
00:19:09  <Phazorx> i can suggest just taking ammler's mode adding it to scn
00:19:13  <Phazorx> and trying to play with it
00:19:54  * Belugas tough you Phazorx had a patch to show
00:20:33  <Phazorx> you dont want to go there
00:20:43  <Phazorx> it is not reallt a patch thing anyway
00:20:50  <Phazorx> since same behavior is observed in trunk
00:21:05  <Ammller> Phazorx: but you still need to reload the game?
00:21:14  <Phazorx> huh?
00:21:47  <Phazorx> Ammller: set by step, i got the effect of grf in the save
00:21:52  <Phazorx> it works to that level
00:21:55  <Phazorx> which is nice
00:22:19  <Phazorx> aside of that i spend 60M instead of 10 on water and 64k instead of 512 on land :)
00:23:27  <Phazorx> and yes after resaving the effect is maintained
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00:24:00  <Phazorx> so my sanity is  back to standart level just slightly above missing :)
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01:18:30  <Ouranogrammi> hello people
01:19:14  <Ouranogrammi> i am running a openttd internet server and i am trying to force it to pause if nobody is currently logged in
01:19:36  <Ouranogrammi> i set min_players to 1 or 2
01:19:41  <Ouranogrammi> but nothing seems to happent :(
01:19:43  <Ouranogrammi> any idea?
01:21:05  <glx> should work
01:21:31  <Ouranogrammi> its like my configure-patches menu settings never get saved in openttd.cfg
01:21:40  <Ouranogrammi> but thanks for info glx
01:21:51  <glx> you changed it in running game?
01:21:54  <Ouranogrammi> yes
01:22:09  <glx> that's why
01:22:25  <Ouranogrammi> i should edit openttd.cfg?
01:22:41  <Ouranogrammi> because no configure-patches-menu option is about min-players
01:23:15  <glx> yes but edit it when openttd is not running
01:23:25  <glx> else it will be overwritten
01:24:00  <Ouranogrammi> when i set options in configure-patches-menu in main menu (before any single or multiplayer game is running)
01:24:05  <Ouranogrammi> is those settings permanent?
01:24:18  <Ouranogrammi> or i should edit openttd.cfg?
01:24:29  <Ouranogrammi> s/is/are
01:24:58  <glx> if you set it before starting a game they will be in openttd.cfg
01:25:27  <Ouranogrammi> thanks i'll go and try it out
01:26:31  <Ouranogrammi> when i start a non dedicated server and let my company bankrupt
01:26:40  <Ouranogrammi> can i start another company from the server?
01:27:12  <glx> you need to start another openttd
01:27:24  <Ouranogrammi> when company bankrupts
01:27:31  <glx> and let the first one running
01:27:31  <Ouranogrammi> u are just a game admin
01:27:40  <Ouranogrammi> right?
01:27:47  <glx> a dev
01:27:56  <Ouranogrammi> does your admin-client counts for player?
01:28:01  <Ouranogrammi> in min-player setting i mean
01:28:25  <Ouranogrammi> should i set min-players to 2? (the admin-client and one player that should be playing)
01:28:26  <glx> server is a client
01:28:42  <Ouranogrammi> so min_players should be set to 2?
01:28:55  <glx> a client is not a player
01:29:03  <Ouranogrammi> ok i'll try one :)
01:29:09  <Phazorx> lol
01:29:13  <Phazorx> interesting conversation
01:29:25  <Ouranogrammi> let the newb become expert :P
01:30:22  <Ouranogrammi> the most impressive fact about the game
01:30:33  <Ouranogrammi> is that any window is a full functional game-viewport
01:30:53  *** egladil [~egladil@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:30:54  <Ouranogrammi> and this feature was present in the first tt (required 386 /4mb ram)
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01:31:02  <Ouranogrammi> masterpiece of software :)
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01:32:10  <Phazorx> that puts many other application and some OSes to shame for sure
01:33:07  <Ouranogrammi> i bought the original tt CD rom with theme park
01:33:14  <Ouranogrammi> and the floppy disk "world editor"
01:33:28  <Ouranogrammi> 2 years of happy gaming
01:33:36  <Ouranogrammi> on my 486
01:33:51  <Rafagd> i bought original tt with a 6 games box
01:33:55  <Rafagd> =]
01:34:01  <Ouranogrammi> after that i upgraded my ram to 8mb and i had some years of gaming with Warcraft2
01:34:34  <Ouranogrammi> tt is more of "relaxing" game, like RPG, its not about maximizing your profit
01:34:49  <Ouranogrammi> is about watching towns groing, making beautiful intersections etc
01:35:16  <Ouranogrammi> you shout respect your multiplayer opponents and help them to build by not blocking
01:35:21  <Phazorx> heh it also has a unique  multiplayer model
01:35:30  <Ouranogrammi> the excact opposite of age of empires 2
01:35:35  <Ouranogrammi> playing like maniac
01:35:42  <Ouranogrammi> trying to wipe your opponent
01:35:43  <Phazorx> and yay it works
01:36:02  <Ouranogrammi> AOE2 requires all players to be present
01:36:09  <Ouranogrammi> game is lost if someone gets DC etc
01:36:27  <Ouranogrammi> the good thing about openttd multiplayer is that anyone can join when he has free time
01:36:33  <Ouranogrammi> like online RPGS
01:36:57  <Phazorx> and with introduction of #wwottdgd ottd goes MMO :)
01:37:18  <Ouranogrammi> after 3 years of lineage
01:37:22  <Ouranogrammi> no real life etc
01:37:34  <Ouranogrammi> no more mmorpg for me :P
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01:38:02  <Phazorx> it isnt an rpg really
01:38:14  <Phazorx> but getting to MMO level in terms of scale
01:38:41  <Ouranogrammi> coordination and team gaming was well repaid
01:38:58  <Phazorx> are you playing competatively with teams?
01:38:59  <Ouranogrammi> an archer group with a healer and a buffer/sws/bd could wipe anything
01:39:15  <Ouranogrammi> i am talking about Lineage
01:39:24  <Ouranogrammi> [04:37] <Phazorx> it isnt an rpg really <- u ment openttd?
01:39:32  <Phazorx> Ouranogrammi: yes :)
01:39:34  <Ouranogrammi> oh!
01:39:43  <Phazorx> and MMO comment was about  ottd as well :)
01:39:44  <Ouranogrammi> sure its not an rpg
01:39:49  <Ouranogrammi> but it has and RPG feeling
01:39:52  <Ouranogrammi> when u play and RPG
01:40:00  <Ouranogrammi> you want to "live" its world
01:40:01  <Phazorx> well you can add RP elements to it for sure
01:40:13  <Ouranogrammi> u don't care just to max ur starts and finish it
01:40:34  <Ouranogrammi> i am a math/game maniac i try to get max out of everything
01:40:41  <Ouranogrammi> but openttd makes you relax
01:40:54  <Ouranogrammi> u live its world
01:41:13  <Phazorx> very true
01:41:46  <Phazorx> however i'd say relaxing moment is when the plan works and everything is efficient and smooth
01:41:50  <Ouranogrammi> and you can have a great multiplayer experience without spending a day playing
01:43:46  <Phazorx> well comes to think of it you might miss a lot in a day :)
01:44:28  <Phazorx> especialy if that day would be this saturday
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01:49:33  <Ouranogrammi> xmm
01:49:39  <Ouranogrammi> edited openttd.conf
01:49:42  <Ouranogrammi> min_players set to 2
01:49:46  <Ouranogrammi> started server
01:50:08  <Phazorx> .cfg you mean?
01:50:10  <Ouranogrammi> min_players at console report 2
01:50:13  <Ouranogrammi> cfg right
01:50:15  <Phazorx> and are you sure that is the active .cfg?
01:50:47  <Ouranogrammi> if it is not, how i am getting min_players = 2 when the game starts :)
01:50:54  <Ouranogrammi> default is 0
01:51:02  <Ouranogrammi> so its the right one
01:51:07  <Ouranogrammi> but it doesn't autopause :(
01:51:30  <Phazorx> well we normally use autopilot for things like that so i amnot even sure how it is supposed to work
01:51:44  <Ouranogrammi> autopilot Oo
01:51:47  <Ouranogrammi> init script?
01:52:24  <glx> Ouranogrammi: it is for dedicated servers only IIRC
01:52:30  <glx> let me check the source
01:52:48  <Ouranogrammi> want my IP and rcon to try?
01:53:07  <Phazorx> glx: i run it on windows box ocasioanly when i test sometihng
01:53:10  <Phazorx> works fine
01:53:24  <Ouranogrammi> i use ubuntu 7.10 for dedicated server
01:53:30  <Ouranogrammi> and XP pro for client
01:53:41  <Phazorx> Ouranogrammi: if you run a server then it is no problem
01:53:46  <glx> Phazorx: I was talking about min_players :)
01:53:55  <Ouranogrammi> my XP machine has my fav monitor and playbacks midi properly
01:53:58  <Ouranogrammi> ubuntu does not :(
01:54:07  <glx> I know autopilot works on windows, I helped to make it work ;)
01:54:22  <Phazorx> glx: ahh yeah...
01:54:49  <glx> void CheckMinPlayers()
01:54:49  <glx> {
01:54:49  <glx>     if (!_network_dedicated) return;
01:54:49  <glx> ...
01:54:52  <Phazorx> surprised to learn some peolpe still listen to the midis there
01:54:55  <glx> yes dedicated only
01:55:23  <Ouranogrammi> OMG
01:55:28  <Ouranogrammi> it was so damn simple :S
01:55:36  <Ouranogrammi> thanks :)
01:55:44  <glx> you can start dedicated server on windows too
01:55:45  <Ouranogrammi> let my try!
01:56:50  <Phazorx> wee... i can move the players too
01:57:30  <Ouranogrammi> move the players?
01:58:05  <Phazorx> Ouranogrammi: i'm testing a very patched version of a server, and surprized it works as expected :)
01:58:19  <Ouranogrammi> is there any "god" mode
01:58:26  <Phazorx> heh
01:58:30  <Phazorx> there are cehats
01:58:31  <Phazorx> in SP
01:58:40  <Phazorx> as i recently learned :)
01:58:52  <Ouranogrammi> for admins to remove obstacles or tiles of malign players?
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01:59:02  <Ouranogrammi> or just kick/ban?
01:59:16  <Phazorx> well admins can kick/ban in basic openttd
01:59:32  <Phazorx> the server i am talking has special functionality that allows admins to move players between teams
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01:59:43  <Phazorx> actualy between spectators and teams mostly
02:00:03  <Ouranogrammi> :) hope someday that will be a standard function in stable openttd
02:00:07  <Phazorx> and it's a no on removing obstacles
02:00:15  * Ouranogrammi luvs 2D isometric 256color games
02:00:24  <Ouranogrammi> Age of empires, Sim, openttd
02:00:31  <Phazorx> Ouranogrammi: it's actualy can be 32bpp now
02:00:43  <Ouranogrammi> no!!! we need palette looping!!!!
02:00:47  <Ouranogrammi> :)
02:00:56  <Phazorx> that's emulated too so animations work
02:01:04  <glx> animation still works yes
02:01:20  <Phazorx> but i play in 8bpp mode tho
02:01:24  <Phazorx> 32 is too taxing sometimes
02:01:25  * Ouranogrammi was doing lava lamps in DOS with basic/pascal but never managed palette looping in windows :(
02:01:40  <Ouranogrammi> if there is a 8bpp full compatible client 32bit is great
02:02:02  <Ouranogrammi> the good thing about those games (openttd, age of empires) is that anyone can play in network game nomatter how old his PC is
02:02:12  <Phazorx> glx: i have a mingw made binary with athlon optimization cflags, is that still normally usable to say celeron users?
02:02:24  <Phazorx> well that actualy does change
02:02:27  <glx> not sure
02:02:36  <Phazorx> i played some games that required 3G +
02:02:39  <glx> celeron is not athlon
02:02:43  <Phazorx> glx: i know
02:02:56  <glx> but you can try
02:03:05  <Phazorx> well i dont have a celeron so no i can not
02:04:24  <Ouranogrammi> is there anyway i can scroll up to see console output?
02:04:34  <Phazorx> shift + arrow
02:04:38  <Ouranogrammi> :)
02:04:47  <Phazorx> shift + pgup/pgdn
02:04:56  <Ouranogrammi> rcon is very convinient
02:05:11  <Phazorx> i kinda like console more but rcon is handy too
02:05:16  <Ouranogrammi> does dedicated server autosaves?
02:05:22  <Phazorx> if you set it to
02:05:39  <Ouranogrammi> default setting is on i think
02:07:01  <Phazorx> glx: are you gona participate in wwottdgd thingy?
02:07:22  <glx> no
02:07:28  <Phazorx> :(
02:14:58  <Ouranogrammi> ALL WORK GREAT!
02:15:01  * Ouranogrammi thanks all :)
02:20:43  <Phazorx> congratulations :)
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02:51:52  <Tefad> hey guys, why does selecting a playlist in the music options section cause a segfault?
02:55:12  <Phazorx> probably have not beed tested for a while
02:55:21  <Tefad> it segfault for you too?
02:55:30  <Phazorx> Osai was reporting some issues with midi on OSX
02:55:41  <Tefad> i'm on linux
02:55:45  <Phazorx> no, i start with -s null -m null :)
02:56:03  <Tefad> i gave a halfassed attempt at getting music working the other day
02:56:17  <Tefad> i've got timidity already installed on this box
02:56:26  <Tefad> and i set the option in config for timidity
02:56:35  <Tefad> it just doesn't want to work or whatever
02:56:36  * Tefad shrugs
02:57:22  <Phazorx> i doubt i can help there,  i'm on windows atm, and probably have never heard any music from OTTD
02:57:36  <Tefad> ok doke
03:09:19  <Ouranogrammi> ubuntu openttd client keeps changine music tracks without playing them
03:09:35  <Ouranogrammi> i probably have them in wrong dir :S
03:11:02  <Rafagd> or TheY HAve CrazY CapS CHanGe SO UniX DoEsN't Find It
03:11:03  <Rafagd> =]
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03:12:44  <Ouranogrammi> Rafagd i thought of that :)
03:12:54  <Ouranogrammi> macos is case sensitive btw?
03:13:16  <Ouranogrammi> i knew linux is case sensitive, but i keep forgot all the time
03:13:49  <Ouranogrammi> one time i tried to import a jpg file into openoffice but i couldn't browse my jpg files although they where there
03:13:58  <Ouranogrammi> they yere... JPG not jpg:P
03:14:05  <Ouranogrammi> were*
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03:16:54  <Rafagd> OSX is unix-link
03:16:57  <Rafagd> like*
03:17:05  <Rafagd> so he may be case sensitive
03:17:56  <Ouranogrammi> bsd like :P
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03:21:40  <Rafagd> Ouranogrammi: you've got the idea XD
03:28:43  <Tefad> bsd and linux both are unix-likes
03:28:57  <Tefad> while bsd has closer roots, it's still no longer offically unix
03:30:17  * Ouranogrammi is writing restart to console
03:30:23  <Ouranogrammi> and... server restarts
03:30:28  <Ouranogrammi> but i am a client!
03:30:33  <Ouranogrammi> no rcon no nothing
03:30:54  <Ouranogrammi> does a client has the privilegdes required to restart ?
03:32:38  <Ouranogrammi> lol its restarting the game out of network
03:37:52  <Phazorx> dihedral has a patch which lets you restart the server via rcon
03:41:21  <Tefad> hmm my last statement isn't quite true : ) BSD is a UNIX, but generally UNIX is reserved for commercial OSs
03:42:26  <Tefad> "Unix" however, can be used to describe UNIX-like systems.
03:42:37  <Phazorx> *nix is a good term
03:43:51  <Phazorx> and BSD OS  IS unix, modern bsds such as free, open and net are far derivates though
03:44:09  * Tefad nods
03:44:18  <Tefad> however *nix doesn't fit "Linux"
03:44:43  <Tefad> * was used to avoid trademark.. i think like a swear word ; )
03:44:58  <Tefad> however some have further modified it to *n?x
03:45:12  <Tefad> i just say unix or linux most of the time
03:45:19  <Tefad> nearly interchangeably
03:45:37  <Tefad> sometimes even posix gets thrown around (cygwin/interix)
03:50:42  * Phazorx is happy with msys/mingw :)
03:51:18  <Phazorx> and imho *nix fits any unix like OS
03:55:37  * Rafagd start to sleep on the keyboard...
03:55:47  <Rafagd> cya
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04:55:35  <tiaz> is there a way to disable breakdowns in the server console?
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05:29:41  <dihedral|away> hello
05:31:02  <hylje> hi
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06:09:18  <Celestar> TrueBrain: how do I take myself off the mailing list?
06:09:56  <hylje> hi celestar
06:10:08  <hylje> i think you post a message to the unsubscribe address
06:10:19  <Celestar> ok will do
06:10:25  <Celestar> the spam is getting out-of-hand
06:10:47  <hylje> the only unknown here (i suppose) is the address
06:12:05  <Celestar> yeah :P
06:12:13  <Celestar> but no hurry
06:12:28  <Celestar> ok
06:12:29  <Celestar> meeting
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09:14:53  <BiA|pavel-css> hi
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09:37:10  <TrueBrain> Celestar: I am going to shut down the maillist, and fix an other way to do it, as mailman doesn't allow me to filter all the spam
09:37:14  <TrueBrain> stupid mailman
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09:43:57  <ln-> leopard is here [x]
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09:55:02  <Guest598> IDENTIFY Lawrence Mullen jr
09:56:00  <Guest598> Good morning everyone
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10:03:12  <skidd13> hi
10:04:44  <Guest598> It seems i don't really know how to change nickname..
10:04:58  <Guest598> Well i don't know
10:09:22  <BiA|pavel-css> ./nick newone
10:11:22  *** Guest598 is now known as Benjamin_One
10:11:28  <Benjamin_One> fine
10:11:33  <Benjamin_One> it works
10:12:25  <Benjamin_One> o.k. may i ask you? Searchin for a good server for playing OTTD. No other pathces and so on. Any sugesstions?
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10:20:29  <qkr> check the server list on the ottd website?
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11:08:53  <Benjamin_One> great idea! Thanx
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11:58:34  <dihedral> hi
11:59:22  <skidd13> hi
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12:37:51  <dihedral> does anybody now out of the top of their head, how to make the client list window a few pixels wider?
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12:51:29  <fjb> Moin
12:55:51  <dihedral> hi
12:59:42  <fjb> I think I found a problem with some tramsets and Long Vehicles 4. :-(
13:01:07  * dihedral still needs to know how to make the client list window a few pixels wider
13:01:43  * fjb doesn't know.
13:02:54  <dihedral> that's just not good enough fjb :-P
13:04:14  <fjb> :-) I didn't read enough of the source yet.
13:05:03  <frosch123> Dihedral: search for "static const WindowDesc" in "network_gui.cpp"
13:05:25  <dihedral> thanks
13:06:06  <frosch123> "WindowDesc" is declared in "window.h".
13:06:14  <dihedral> thanks
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13:07:21  <Ammller> frosch123: concratulation for your nice patch went to trunk btw.
13:07:22  <fjb> Now I know why I never could earn money with any tramset I tested. They have much highter running costs if Long Vehicles 4 were loaded at game creation time.
13:08:22  <Ammller> fjb: nice hint.
13:08:37  <dihedral> very good indeed
13:08:40  * dihedral is compiling
13:09:01  <fjb> Loading Long Vehicles 4 into a ruiunning game doesn't affect the running costs of the trams.
13:09:10  <Ammller> someone here already played with dutch trams?
13:09:15  <fjb> Me
13:09:20  <Ammller> how are they?
13:09:46  <frosch123> thanks Ammller. Rubidium also spent a lot of time on it.
13:09:48  <fjb> They are just great. Cute to look at them. And very usefull in crowded citys.
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13:10:36  <Ammller> yep, I guess so, I watched him committing the patch, was dramatically... :)
13:10:56  <fjb> frosch123: It's really more fun with the new foundations. It looks much better.
13:11:18  <dihedral> nice
13:11:20  <dihedral> it's done
13:11:41  <dihedral> Ammller: you want zero padded id's?
13:11:49  <Ammller> zero?
13:12:05  <Ammller> padded?
13:12:12  <dihedral> 0001
13:12:21  <Ammller> don't thing so
13:12:47  <Ammller> right aligned
13:12:49  <dihedral> how do i do left padding with sprintf?
13:12:59  <dihedral> well - ok
13:13:26  <dihedral> i was just thinking of #1     : blah
13:14:46  <Ammller> dihedral: just do it working nice :)
13:14:57  <dihedral> :-)
13:17:35  <Ammller> but with 0 in front isn't readable...
13:18:23  <dihedral> yes
13:19:02  <dihedral> hmmmm
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13:39:29  <ln-> OTTD does not compile under OS X Leopard.
13:39:45  <glx> ln-: fix it :)
13:40:46  <fjb> What prevents it from compiling there?
13:42:22  <Belugas> ask ln- ;)
13:42:45  <hylje> apple changed stuff around i suppose
13:43:38  <ln->
13:44:43  <dihedral> what was your ./configure?
13:46:54  <ln-> ./configure
13:47:02  <hylje> wrong term ;)
13:47:32  <dihedral> ./configure --with-cocoa
13:49:51  <ln-> btw, if anyone here has signed Apple's NDA, then DON'T READ WHAT I'M SAYING!
13:50:07  <hylje> that sounds backwards
13:50:31  <ln-> NDA about Xcode 3 ends after about 11 hours, which isn't yet.
13:50:54  <ln-> I have received Leopard through normal preorder, and never signed an NDA, so it doesn't concern me.
13:54:33  <ln-> dihedral: --with-cocoa didn't change anything, and it would be odd if it wasn't the default setting anyway
13:55:22  <dihedral> heh
13:59:15  <dihedral> ln- interested in wwottdgd?
13:59:41  <Kommer> when will the game start tomorrow?
13:59:47  <Kommer> in CET time? :)
13:59:47  <dihedral> @562
13:59:54  <dihedral> internet time
14:00:03  <ln-> dihedral: what's wwottdgd?
14:00:25  <dihedral>
14:00:27  <Kommer> and thats in CET?
14:00:33  <dihedral> internet time
14:00:38  <dihedral> 1000 beats per day
14:00:45  <dihedral> it's the same world wide
14:00:50  <Kommer> yeah yeah yeah, but whats that in CET :)
14:00:53  <Kommer> aka, your own time :)
14:01:08  <dihedral> 13:30 CET and 14:30 CEST
14:01:10  <dihedral> :-D
14:01:25  <dihedral> game will be avail at least 10 mins before
14:01:29  <dihedral> but paused
14:01:40  <Sacro> whats that in GMT?
14:01:43  <Sacro> ah @562
14:01:46  <Sacro> thats err....
14:01:50  * Sacro carries the 1
14:01:55  <Kommer> ah ok, are we gonna do a beta run of the map at the .dev server?
14:01:56  <Sacro> shortly after 12...
14:02:54  <ln-> sounds interesting
14:03:23  <dihedral> we are doing beta run right now
14:03:30  <dihedral> 12.30 Sacro
14:03:45  <Sacro> dihedral: just fixing the grammer :p
14:04:01  <dihedral> we have a bunch of patches in too, to ensure some sanity level, etc
14:04:06  <Kommer> dihedral: not with the europe map :)
14:04:13  <Kommer> or is that on the actual server already?
14:04:17  <dihedral> with the europe map
14:04:35  <dihedral> it's the actual wwottdgd server
14:04:53  <Kommer> ok
14:04:57  <Ammller> !openttd commit 11341
14:04:58  <_42_> Commit by glx :: r11341 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_callbacks.h) (2007-10-25 23:24:28 UTC)
14:04:59  <Kommer> which grf pack are we using there?
14:05:00  <_42_> -Codechange: add missing callback ID enums, add stub for house property 20 and reorder unimplemented action 0 properties
14:05:11  <Ammller> AntB: do you need that for your GRF ?
14:05:17  <glx> Ammller: nothing important in this commit
14:05:27  <glx> just more todo stuff
14:05:35  <AntB> nope, don't think so
14:05:37  <Ammller> ok, thanks..
14:05:40  <dihedral> Kommer: you can find all details in the topic of #wwottdgd
14:05:49  <Sacro> dihedral: page updates
14:05:51  <Kommer> ahh ok
14:05:53  <Kommer> sry
14:05:59  <dihedral> np
14:06:03  <dihedral> Sacro: ??
14:07:20  <Sacro> dihedral: i corrected the grammer and a few spelling mistakes
14:07:28  <dihedral> nice, thanks
14:07:40  <dihedral> Sacro: will we see you there? tomorrow or sunday?
14:08:17  <Sacro> dihedral: most probably
14:08:25  <Sacro> not climbing tommorow, but i might have to go into work
14:08:48  <dihedral> did you see my move clients patch?
14:09:13  <Sacro> err... yes i belive so
14:11:11  <dihedral> it works like a charm
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14:20:44  <blathijs> Hmm, that's a curious subject for a spam email: "Enjoy your life with the patch"
14:21:02  <dihedral> LOL
14:21:30  <dihedral> i get kernel ones
14:21:38  <dihedral> and patch too in the meantime
14:22:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i never get spam...
14:23:00  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: You think every advertised thing is usefull? :-)
14:23:20  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i really never get spam...
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14:37:13  <fjb> What action is responsible for the building and running costs of a vehicle?
14:39:19  <glx> action 0
14:42:14  <fjb> Thank you.
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14:45:30  <fjb> NFO look complicated...
14:45:35  <fjb> looks
14:50:26  * Sacro sits in the office
14:50:27  <Phazorx> question: can autoslope pricing be changed easily?
14:51:16  * fjb sits at home.
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14:52:48  * fjb wishes there would be a NFO assembler, or even better a compiler from something readable to NFO.
14:53:16  <ln-> Bjarni!
14:54:27  <Bjarni> ln-!
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14:55:39  <ln-> Bjarni: have a look:
14:56:33  <Phazorx> question: can autoslope pricing be changed easily (currently it equal to terraforming of that tile)?
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14:57:20  <Bjarni> huh?
14:57:50  <Bjarni> how did you manage to break it like that?
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14:58:44  <Bjarni> ohh Leopard
14:58:46  <Bjarni> :(
14:58:52  <ln-> Bjarni: procedure: 1) pre-order Leopard, 2) install Leopard, 3) compile OTTD
14:59:14  <ln-> the unix.cpp error is easy
14:59:21  <hylje> speaking of terraforming, how well would bedrock work with ottd as it is?
14:59:52  <Bjarni> I don't fear unix.cpp
15:00:03  <Bjarni> I fear the cocoa video driver
15:00:52  <Bjarni> but for some reason it failed in the sound driver and not in the video driver as expected :o
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15:03:35  <Bjarni> ln-: but it works with the precompiled binaries, rigth?
15:03:58  <hylje> who cares about that when one can't compile it
15:04:34  <Bjarni> well
15:04:55  <Bjarni> specially if you can't compile then you want to know
15:05:27  <Bjarni> also if 10.4 binaries works, then a really quick and dirty hack is to fake the compiler to compile for 10.4 (which should work)
15:05:53  <Bjarni> I know we want to solve this the right way, but it could take time to solve that sound issue
15:06:01  <Belugas> Phazorx, look here :
15:06:25  <Phazorx> Belugas: not realy that
15:06:34  <Phazorx> when you build autosloped rail
15:06:44  <Phazorx> it applies proces of terraforming
15:06:52  <Phazorx> so if i have very high terraforming cost
15:07:01  <Phazorx> buulding rail on slop becomes expensive too
15:07:05  <Belugas>
15:07:11  <Phazorx> which is not quite what the idea was
15:07:15  <fjb> Hm, why is OpenTTD often one off when tranlating miles/h to km/h?
15:07:26  <Phazorx> Belugas: been there and which one is pricce for autosloped tile ?
15:07:53  <Belugas> auto slope is not a special building...
15:08:02  <Belugas> it's just a way of building them
15:08:06  <Belugas> therefore...
15:08:18  <Phazorx> Belugas: but tracks build on slopes have proces of terraformed tiles + track
15:08:27  <Belugas> yeah, so?
15:08:37  <Phazorx> <Phazorx> question: can autoslope pricing be changed easily (currently it equal to terraforming of that tile)?
15:08:47  <Phazorx> i want to change it
15:08:55  <Phazorx> so autoslope price is regular
15:09:01  <Phazorx> or based on regular
15:09:07  <ln-> Bjarni: I didn't try with precompiled binaries.
15:09:13  <Phazorx> because technicaly there is no terraforming
15:09:19  <Belugas> ok... let start form beginning...
15:09:23  <Belugas> using gf?
15:09:25  <Belugas> grf?
15:09:28  <Phazorx> Belugas: many
15:09:36  <Bjarni> ln-: would be nice to know the result of such a test :)
15:09:38  <Phazorx> one of which modifies base costs
15:09:38  <hylje> (*cough* coop)
15:09:40  <Belugas> grrrrrr
15:09:44  <Phazorx> and make terraforming very high
15:09:49  <Belugas> using grf method ogf changing cost??
15:09:58  <Phazorx> Belugas: yes
15:10:02  <Belugas> good
15:10:13  <Belugas> action 0, prop 8
15:10:32  <Phazorx> NewBaseCost = OldBaseCost * 2^(n-8),
15:10:37  <Bjarni> basically I presume that I will be flooded with bug reports within the next few days if it fails and I want to know what people will say so I can quickly declare what the issue is ;)
15:10:59  <Phazorx> Belugas: terraforming has n=18
15:11:03  <Bjarni> I need your work to make it possible to appear like a "know it all developer"
15:11:08  <Phazorx> because we want to have it expensive as hell
15:11:11  <Bjarni> think of how a boss acts :P
15:11:55  <Phazorx> so num 15 is changed with param 18
15:12:22  <Phazorx> and num 01 is not changed and shouid be dafault
15:12:34  <Phazorx> isuues is when you build on slope (autoslope) it  does 15 + 01
15:12:40  <Phazorx> so it get's really expensive
15:13:12  <Belugas> openttd.h:255, what do you see?
15:13:33  *** fjb is now known as fjbAWAY
15:13:42  <Phazorx> 	Money terraform;
15:13:53  <Phazorx> and?
15:13:55  <Belugas> so, what is your next step?
15:13:58  <ln-> Bjarni: gotta try on monday, the leopardified Mac is at work, and i don't work during weekends.
15:14:23  <Phazorx> come here and ask how autoslope behavior can be changed so it does not charge for terraforming theren there is not any ?
15:15:07  <Belugas> forget the name autoslope, please
15:15:21  <Phazorx> okay "building on sloped tiles"
15:15:36  <Belugas> 15	4BB2	250	raise/lower land
15:15:51  <Phazorx> i'm not rising land, i am building tracks
15:15:51  <Belugas> 1	4B3A	100	build track
15:16:02  <Phazorx> yeah Belugas
15:16:06  <Belugas> you ARE if you are using autoslope , fore god sake!
15:16:27  <Phazorx> Belugas: which is why i came ehre , asking how to disable that
15:16:32  <Belugas> so, you have to change BOTH prices if you want autoslope to be changed
15:16:54  <Phazorx> Belugas: i want terraforming costs to be diffrent from slope costs
15:17:01  <Belugas> [11:09] <Phazorx> Belugas: been there and which one is pricce for autosloped tile ?
15:17:09  <Phazorx> where in the src it decided that slope is terraforming
15:17:15  <Belugas> i'ver shonw youy the answer
15:17:34  <Phazorx> Belugas: i am trying to separate terraforming from slope price
15:17:44  <Phazorx> since we use a grf that affects terraforming prices
15:17:52  <Phazorx> and as we learned it also does it for sloped tracks
15:17:55  <Belugas> search yourself... i'm tired of baby feeding
15:17:55  <Phazorx> which is mot desired
15:17:59  <Phazorx> so i am trying to fix that
15:18:47  <Phazorx> Belugas: i know about base costs and grf, what i dont know where these are pallied in the code to sloped tracks, which is the only thing i am asking
15:19:16  <Phazorx> i know how to modify based costs and that is already done, however since sloped tiles are considered terraforming - it lead to undesried effects
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15:22:08  <Belugas> define indesired effects
15:23:39  <dihedral> undesired in this case = people should not be punished for building on slopes, but should fork out a bunch of cash for terraforming
15:23:57  <dihedral> i.e. seing the 2 as separate things
15:24:07  <dihedral> building on slopes = ok, terraforming not ok
15:25:24  <Belugas> simply put, there is no difference, it is based on same price
15:25:32  <dihedral> yes
15:26:04  <Belugas> well... that is the answer to the question too... autoslope is terraforming
15:26:10  <Belugas> therefore, they use same price
15:26:17  <Belugas> cannot be changed
15:26:32  <Belugas> what you guys want, is to STOP the BEHAVIOUR
15:26:35  <dihedral> can i not remove the c/c++ code that states it as terraforming?
15:26:49  <Belugas> not in trunk, for sure
15:27:00  <dihedral> nono
15:27:05  <dihedral> just for wwottdgd
15:27:49  <dihedral> or did you mean the current version in trunk
15:27:56  * dihedral is confuddeld
15:27:58  <dihedral> :-P
15:28:00  <Belugas> i'm not the right person to ask for that, and i doubt there is even the possiblibitly to do so
15:28:08  <dihedral> k
15:28:14  <dihedral> thank you Belugas
15:28:34  <dihedral> really appreciate your feedback even though you are at work
15:29:19  <Belugas> does anyone knows of the easiest way to determine if an heating element is burned out, other than putting your hand on it, of course?
15:29:41  <Belugas> does it have a resistance measurable wih an ohmmeter>
15:29:42  <Belugas> ?
15:29:59  <dihedral> huh
15:30:00  <Belugas> i'm not at work, i'm at home with a broken water boiuler
15:30:02  <dihedral> good question
15:30:09  <dihedral> ouch
15:30:12  <dihedral> now that is a pain
15:30:20  <Phazorx> dihedral: rail_cmd.cpp:284
15:30:31  <Phazorx> 300 actualy
15:30:52  <glx> <@Belugas> i'm not at work, i'm at home with a broken water boiuler <-- I had that once, but it was in summer :)
15:31:13  <dihedral> Phazorx: i'll look at it, will still need the same thing for roads and bridges
15:31:25  <Phazorx> dihedral: it's a start
15:31:26  <dihedral> and buildings (stations)
15:31:51  <dihedral> Phazorx: was a hint for you to go search while i see what i can do here :-)
15:32:08  <Phazorx> i am making a patch of some sort
15:32:40  <dihedral> when is tb coming along to make the bins?
15:32:50  <Phazorx> ~6
15:32:55  <dihedral> shoot
15:32:59  <Phazorx> yup
15:33:19  <dihedral> Phazorx: search for price.terraform
15:33:26  <Phazorx> i did
15:33:28  <dihedral> and all we would need to do is a fraction of that
15:33:41  <dihedral> so devide by the multiplyer we add in the grf :-D
15:34:01  <Phazorx> i'd do sometihng like 2x rail price rather than terraform+rail
15:34:12  <dihedral> do terraform + rail
15:34:26  <dihedral> but terraform / multiplyer in grf (or half the multiplyer)
15:34:26  <Phazorx> that manes 512000 + 70 for us
15:34:43  <Phazorx> what multiplier?
15:34:58  <dihedral> terraforming costs are being modded to 128x right?
15:35:13  <Phazorx> x1024 in the params but that failed
15:35:18  <Phazorx> so it is only x128
15:35:29  <Phazorx> water is x128 which failed to so it is x512
15:35:33  <dihedral> so in line 299 of rail_cmd.cpp
15:35:35  <Phazorx> and ammler thionks it is all okay :)
15:35:57  <dihedral> _price.terraform / 128
15:36:12  <dihedral> Phazorx: we are 3 people all looking at different aspects
15:36:18  <Phazorx> good
15:36:23  <dihedral> that is bound to go over and under
15:36:35  <Phazorx> well ask Ammller to check the grf thing
15:36:51  <Phazorx> cuz costs i have for teraforming do not match the values of params
15:36:57  <Phazorx> that is grf only
15:38:57  <dihedral> Phazorx: you set terraforming to 1024 and calculations seem to be that of 128?
15:39:07  <Phazorx> for terraforming yes
15:39:16  <Phazorx> and for water clearing 512 instead of 128
15:39:25  <Phazorx> or sometihng like that
15:39:46  <Phazorx> dihedral: for slope building i'd rather have it NOT based on terraforming cost at all
15:40:00  <dihedral> it is the easiest for now
15:40:05  <dihedral> and we only have 20 mins
15:40:12  <Phazorx> it isnt easiest
15:40:16  <Phazorx> easiest is like 2x normal
15:40:21  <Phazorx> or 5x
15:40:27  <dihedral> you dont have 2x anything in that method
15:40:51  <dihedral> all that method does is return the terraforming cost or 0
15:40:52  <Phazorx> huh?
15:41:03  <Phazorx> and i can make it return any other proce
15:41:03  <dihedral> CheckRailSlope(...
15:41:11  <dihedral> yes
15:41:17  <dihedral> but 2x what do you want to return
15:41:22  <dihedral> 'what' is not available
15:41:25  <Phazorx> of what it is supopsed to be
15:41:31  <Phazorx> say it is road - so 2x road
15:41:42  <dihedral> ROAD AINT THERE
15:41:43  <Phazorx> so total cost for foundation + road is 3x road
15:41:51  <Phazorx> that matters not
15:41:55  <Phazorx> i know the price
15:41:57  <Phazorx> so i cant use it
15:41:59  <dihedral> look at the code
15:42:08  <Phazorx> so for road foundation i can use proce for road
15:42:09  <dihedral> all it does is check if you build on slope or not
15:42:12  <Phazorx> for track foundation price for track
15:42:14  <Phazorx> etc
15:42:30  <Phazorx> dihedral: that function checks igf you buld rail on slope
15:42:39  <dihedral> what you could do would be to check the method that calles these checks
15:42:46  <Phazorx> so i can put _price.build_rail;
15:42:58  <Phazorx> in other palces where it is road = _price.build_road;
15:43:12  <Phazorx> if it is a station - _price.train_station_track
15:43:15  <Phazorx> and so on
15:43:18  <dihedral> k
15:43:21  <dihedral> go ahead
15:43:30  <dihedral> 15mins to go :-)
15:43:32  <Phazorx> dihedral: but what is the factor
15:44:02  <dihedral> make it 4 or 8 times what is being built
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16:26:57  <fjb> I have some trouble with grfcodec. I decoded a grf. Encoding from the just decoded data results in lots of warnings about sprites not found an in a broken grf.
16:27:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11343 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix[FS#1368]: Autoslope did not work correctly for single track on higher part of steep slopes. (frosch)
16:27:57  <DaleStan> fjb: Exact error messages please. Not necessarily all of them, but exact messages.
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16:28:46  <fjb> Warning: Sprite 9 reports 4 bytes, but I found 12.
16:28:46  <fjb> Warning: Found sprite 18 looking for sprite 10.
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16:29:01  <fjb> And many more of that kind.
16:29:56  <lessj5> hey, why "resetengines" is not working like before? =[
16:30:01  <DaleStan> 1) What version? and 2) Can you paste what you think should be sprites 9 and 10?
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16:30:13  <Wolf01> hello
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16:32:05  <fjb> GRFCodec version 0.9.10
16:32:11  <fjb> Hello Wolf01
16:32:17  <lessj5> how to re-enable old vehicles, like helicopters or old style buses? |=
16:34:16  <fjb> Good question what sprites 9 and 10 are. I'm just a beginner with grfs and sprites. How do I identify them in the nfo file?
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16:34:43  <fjb> Is it the first number in front of the *?
16:35:27  <Belugas> yes fjb
16:35:29  <Bjarni> lessj5: type "resetengines" in the terminal but unless you have persistent engines on in your settings they will disappear again
16:37:56  <fjb> Hm, I retried it without touching the data, even not looking at it. Now encoding works.
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16:38:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11344 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp:
16:38:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Removes some magic numbers referring the highlighting mode in road_gui.cpp
16:38:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Some typos fixed too.(FS#1371-skidd13)
16:39:34  <DaleStan> It sounds to me like the Unixy-absolute-paths bug, in which real sprites turn into single bytes in the preceeding pseudo. Compile a later version from source (svn:// or use relative paths instead.
16:40:54  <fjb> Ok, the version that I have has some problems with relative paths, so I used absolut paths.
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16:43:17  <lessj5> [Bjarni]: i forgot persistent engines. K, thx
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16:49:15  <fjb> make complains about upx not found. But at least there is a new grfcodec: GRFCodec version 0.9.10 r1780
16:50:41  <DaleStan> Ah. Right. make wants upx to build grfdiff. But you don't need it for grfcodec or grfmerge, unless you want the release versions (which are conventional builds, plus strip and upx)
16:56:08  <Ammller> guys, is it bad when "Hunk #4 succeeded at 2442 with fuzz 1." appear on patching?
16:56:55  <Ammller> I mean, what does fuzz 1 mean?
16:57:20  <glx> Ammller: it means it worked
16:57:42  <glx> but it needed to apply an offset
16:58:08  <Ammller> and that: Hunk #5 succeeded at 2508 (offset -1 lines).
16:58:22  <Ammller> I thought, thats the offset thing...
16:58:33  <glx> hmm or maybe it removed a blank line
16:59:27  <fjb> Ammller: you shoud start worrying when it says "failed". :-)
17:00:01  <Ammller> yeah, indeed.. but I wondering about this nice word
17:00:16  <Ammller> at least in my language...
17:01:30  <fjb> DaleStan: Now I also have upx and grfdiff and grfmerge. But grfcodec has still some problems. I decoded the grf and reencoded it. When encoding grfcodec complains:
17:01:35  <fjb> GRFCodec version 0.9.10 r1780 - Copyright (C) 2000-2005 by Josef Drexler
17:01:35  <fjb> Encoding in temporary file /home/frank/
17:01:35  <fjb> Warning: Found 444 fewer sprites than sprite 0 reports.00%, Redundancy:100%)
17:01:35  <fjb> Sprite  277  Done: 99%  Compressed:100% (Transparency:100%, Redundancy:100%)
17:01:35  <fjb> Replacing /home/frank/DutchTramSetW_r15.grf with /home/frank/
17:01:37  <fjb> Done!
17:05:12  <fjb> Sprite 0 is: 0 * 4        D1 02 00 00
17:06:23  <DaleStan> What's the sprite number of the last sprite in the file?
17:06:28  <Ammller> wow, big code
17:07:27  <fjb> It is:
17:07:27  <fjb>   277 * 45	 00 01 12 01 4C 00 88 91 03 14 04 FF 08 A0 13 50 14 50 0F 25 07 0F 11 E8 09 F9 02 20 0A 48 4C 00
17:07:27  <fjb> 	 00 10 00 0E FF 06 07 12 49 17 90 1C 01
17:09:01  <fjb> The grf is the DutchTramset
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17:13:18  <dihedral> AntB:
17:13:36  <dihedral> what do you need and what do you have regarding ttrs compat.
17:15:42  <AntB> lord guy says it works
17:15:50  <AntB> with ttrs
17:16:27  <dihedral> yes - we have not managed to get it to work though...
17:16:36  <AntB> just gotta load it before ttrs by the looks of it
17:16:55  <dihedral> we are not using default buildings
17:18:53  <AntB> he used ttrs 0 0 0 0 with party square...
17:20:48  <Phazorx> AntB: old or couurent grf?
17:20:54  <Phazorx> old one before/after did not work
17:22:43  <fjb> DaleStan: Maybe the problem starts with decoding the grf. grfcodec says:
17:22:47  <fjb> GRFCodec version 0.9.10 r1780 - Copyright (C) 2000-2005 by Josef Drexler
17:22:47  <fjb> Decoding:
17:22:47  <fjb> /usr/local/share/games/openttd/data/DutchTramSetW_r15.grf has 278 sprites, maxx 0, maxy 0, maxs 0.
17:23:17  <fjb> The maxx 0, maxy 0, maxs 0 look strange.
17:24:37  <AntB> hes got the old one working
17:25:03  <AntB>
17:28:39  <Phazorx> somwething is wrong
17:28:53  <Phazorx> what is the year of that SS?
17:29:01  <Phazorx> cuz 0 means follow timeline
17:29:55  <AntB> doesn't say
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17:41:49  <fjb> When decoding the grf using the latest grfcodec from svn the pcx file contains only the sprite numbers, not the sprite pictures.
17:43:39  <DaleStan> Is that the original, or the one you encoded when you got all the warning messages?
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17:45:03  <fjb> Ups, good point. I have to recheck that. I'm getting confused...
17:46:51  <fjb> It was the broken grf. Thank you.
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17:48:20  <fjb> The new grfcodec is working. :-)
17:49:46  <fjb> Now get prepared for my questions about the actions of the NFO file...
17:51:29  <fjb> My first modification is working.
17:57:44  <fjb> I'm dividing the building costs in the tram grf by the factor that George used as multiplier in his Long Vehicles.
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18:17:16  <AntB> gotta work, cya later
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18:22:51  <fjb> I'm having usable trams now. :-) Thank you, especially DaleStan, for your help.
18:23:27  <hylje> *tram bzzt*
18:23:39  <hylje> hmm, wtf sounds do trains in general make
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18:23:45  <hylje> steam trains say choochoo
18:23:53  <hylje> (locomotives, silly)
18:24:30  <dihedral> Rubidium / Belugas / Bjarni or any other admin... would it be possible for you to make for us?
18:25:01  <Maedhros> chances are good that you missed the only person who can; i.e. TrueBrain :p
18:25:02  <hylje>
18:25:13  <Phazorx> well shorter is better
18:25:18  <fjb> Trams are fun, no matter what sound they make. :-)
18:25:27  <Phazorx> and ottd.openttd/org is kinda repetative
18:25:35  <hylje> Phazorx: redundancy is kinda bad
18:25:52  <hylje> Phazorx: and a katchy TLA or a single world are great, too
18:26:02  <Phazorx> all for that
18:26:13  <Phazorx> but let's figure out with can and want to do it
18:26:18  <Phazorx> then we can brainstorm the name
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18:28:04  <hylje> the name, the game, you just lost it
18:28:17  <Phazorx> ?
18:28:24  <dihedral> ?
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18:39:03  * fjb is happy about his new trams.
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18:42:30  <Ammller> fjb: what was the problem?
18:42:44  <Ammller> I mean, why had you to change the tramset?
18:46:17  <Ammller>
18:46:24  <Ammller> oh sorry
18:46:28  <Ammller> wrong channel
18:50:02  <fjb> Ammller: Yes, I devided all costs by 8 to make it compatible with Long Vehicles 4.
18:50:15  <fjb> Now the trams make money.
18:50:24  <fjb> And they are fun to watch.
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18:55:21  <Ammller> fjb: running costs?
18:55:43  <fjb> Yes, running cost an building cost.
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18:56:27  <Ammller> hmm, you should post this version to the forum...
18:56:55  <fjb> Don't know if the original author would like that.
18:57:01  <Ammller> hmm, maybe a seperate grf, which changes only this...
18:57:18  <Ammller> its still in development
18:57:38  <Ammller> I guess, they didn't thought about using it with 4lv yet
18:58:48  <Ammller> hmm, a separate grf would be easy, just diff nfos, possible?
18:58:53  <fjb> The licence doesn't allow me to post a modified version. I just looked at it.
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18:59:40  <Ammller> is he allowed to use such a licence?
18:59:56  <fjb> The authors are aware of the problem with LV4.
19:00:46  <fjb> Ofcourse he is allowed to use such a licence. As least I don't know any reason that would not allow him to.
19:01:02  <fjb> Ammller: Did you try the Dutch Tramset?
19:01:16  <Ammller> not now, but I am on it...
19:01:30  <fjb> And you use Long Vehicles 4?
19:01:38  <Ammller> I like that too, yes
19:01:51  *** Guest24 [~wolf01@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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19:05:53  <fjb> I just made a diff of the modified NFO. I could send that diff to you.
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19:12:54  <Ouranogrammi> can i "readvertise" my network game, because i run a dedicated linux server but my internet connection is dynamic so mi IP changes every one or two days?
19:13:40  <Ouranogrammi> i do have a DNS that updates every time IP changes, can i use make clients use DNS instead?
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19:16:48  <Belugas> Wolf01, can you explain me why the ToggleTransparencies function does not toggle signs? what was the objective?
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19:27:04  <Rubidium> Ouranogrammi: it is done automatically every 15 minutes
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20:42:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11345 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp unmovable_cmd.cpp): -Cleanup: a bit of comment style fixing
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20:48:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11346 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h): -Codechange: Add marker has_newwater to the loaded grf features. Not in used yet.
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20:49:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i smell a feature arising
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20:50:28  <Wolf01> hello again
20:51:02  <Eddi|zuHause> oh grandmother, why do you have such big eyes?
20:51:29  <Wolf01> because i want to see you better
20:52:03  <Eddi|zuHause> oh grandmother, why do you have such big hands?
20:52:46  <Wolf01> because i want to touch you better
20:53:14  <Eddi|zuHause> oh grandmother, why do you have such a big mouth?
20:53:40  <Wolf01> because i'm yawning :OOO
20:55:03  <Bjarni> hmm... no sexual reference.... is this really the internet?
20:55:27  <Wolf01> no but... follow the white rabbit
20:55:36  <Bjarni> where is it?
20:55:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11347 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: use marker loaded grf feature has_newwater when it is required. (more to come)
20:55:53  <Bjarni> ahh
20:55:54  <Bjarni> there
20:55:54  <Wolf01> on your right, there, on the left
20:56:01  <Belugas> in his hole, of course
20:56:12  <Belugas> Wolf01, can you explain me why the ToggleTransparencies function does not toggle signs? what was the objective?
20:56:15  <Bjarni> you mean I have to aim for the hole?
20:56:16  <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't have alice-dsl
20:56:30  <Wolf01> belugas, peter 1138 wanted so
20:56:46  <Belugas> ha...
20:56:54  <Belugas> good enough of a reason to me ;)
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20:57:50  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't have alice-dsl <-- I think if you eat mushrooms then you will automatically get this
20:58:00  <Bjarni> I can't say I recommend doing so...
20:58:04  <Bjarni> it could be unstable
20:58:09  <Belugas> gimmegimmegimmegimme!
20:58:15  <hylje> ooo wut?
20:59:00  <ln-> egladil: do you have ideas?
20:59:41  <egladil> hum? about what?
20:59:47  <ln-> about....
20:59:51  <Bjarni> the game
21:00:03  <hylje> you just lost it
21:00:04  <ln-> ... this:
21:00:16  <ln-> (that's on Leopard)
21:00:19  <Bjarni> oh right
21:00:20  <Bjarni> that
21:00:40  <ln-> and the unix.cpp error is an easy fix.
21:01:43  <egladil> leopard breaks the sounddriver?
21:01:50  *** blue___ [] has joined #openttd
21:01:51  <Bjarni> what surprises me the most is that the sound driver fails while the video driver works o_O
21:02:12  <egladil> :p
21:02:21  <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't all the Cocoa stuff deprecated anyway?
21:02:28  <Bjarni> no
21:02:34  <Bjarni> only the fullscreen video driver
21:02:41  <Rubidium> isn't leopard already deprecated?
21:02:51  <Bjarni> and that's why I'm surprised that it still works
21:02:58  <ln-> Eddi|zuHause: i doubt Cocoa stuff has ever been deprecated.
21:03:10  <ln-> rather QuickDraw or something.
21:03:15  <Bjarni> <Rubidium> isn't leopard already deprecated? <-- officially it came out today at 18:00 (our time)
21:03:30  <Bjarni> but some preordered DVDs arrived early
21:03:31  <ln-> Bjarni: and 18:00 our time, and 18:00 american time.
21:03:42  <Rubidium> Bjarni: I know
21:03:53  <ln-> Rubidium: it's vista 2.0, it's not deprecated.
21:04:20  <Rubidium> hope it's not vista 2.0
21:04:37  <Rubidium> gives me yet another reason NOT to buy a mac
21:04:45  <egladil> it's not
21:05:05  <ln-> in the sense that it introduces the new features that vista 2.0 will have after 7 years.
21:05:10  <Rubidium> and it looks like wireless is worse with leopard (or so is the experience of my brother)
21:05:45  <Bjarni> worse... how?
21:05:55  <Bjarni> worse signal strength?
21:05:57  <Rubidium> from good coverage -> bad coverage
21:06:09  <Bjarni> odd
21:06:18  <Rubidium> like being able to internet in the living room to not being able to internet in the living room
21:06:55  <ln-> hmmm, actually i think i heard something like that from #somewhere else, too.
21:07:07  *** blue__ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:07:07  <Bjarni> I fear Apple rushed it a bit too much
21:07:20  <ln-> which, in turn, implies that it's a known problem and will get fixed hopefully soon.
21:08:22  <LeviathNL> does not update anymore :S ?
21:08:48  <Rubidium> ln-: Apple made their iconv bug-for-bug compatible with GNU/GLibc?
21:08:53  <Bjarni> it looks stalled somehow
21:09:12  <Bjarni> iconv bug-for-bug?
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21:09:17  <Rubidium> LeviathNL: looks like that yeah, don't know why though
21:09:21  <ln-> Rubidium: probably added the const.
21:09:30  <Rubidium> ln-: rather removed the const
21:09:45  <ln-> oh. that way. mmm'kay
21:09:45  <Rubidium> as non-const -> const conversions do not give errors
21:10:26  <Bjarni> the only issue I had with iconv was the one from fink. I reported the issue and they fixed it in their 1.11 update
21:10:27  <hylje> this should be what toyland (foodland?) should be like:
21:10:34  <Rubidium> and if you read the comment a few lines before the iconv in unix.cpp you can read that it should be const char* and not char*
21:12:16  *** blue___ is now known as bluebear
21:14:05  <Rubidium> just as Windows is still bug-for-bug compatible with a design choice in MS DOS 0 (or something like that)
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21:16:35  <ln-> Bjarni: the Xcode tools 3 (still under NDA!!) include subversion, btw, and it is no longer necessary to install that from fink.
21:16:48  <ln-> (Xcode 3 only for Leopard)
21:17:18  <Bjarni> nice
21:17:53  <Bjarni> is Xcode 3 so cool that you "want to make bugs to work with the debugger"?
21:18:08  <Bjarni> somehow I don't think I want to make bugs nomatter how great the debugger is :P
21:18:33  <ln-> actually i couldn't find the backtrace of an aborted program, but...
21:18:55  <ln-> but i was about to go home from work and didn't have time or interest to look further.
21:19:07  <Bjarni> sounds reasonable
21:20:54  <Rubidium> LeviathNL: can't update the git/hg myself; tried, but don't have enough rights. Looks like only TrueBrain can do it.
21:21:11  <Bjarni> ln-: what version of fontconfig is installed in Leopard? If you check the configure output then it will tell you
21:21:32  <Bjarni> I presume that you didn't check this, so it's a task for you to do when you get back to the computer ;)
21:21:45  <ln-> i have ssh access to it right now.
21:21:59  <Bjarni> nice
21:22:10  <Bjarni> ssh should be enough for configure
21:22:29  <ln-> executing pkg-config fontconfig --modversion returned  exit code 127
21:22:29  <ln-> checking libfontconfig... not found
21:22:43  <Bjarni> that looks... wrong
21:23:21  <Bjarni> checking libfontconfig... needs at least version 2.3.0, fontconfig NOT enabled <-- this is what I get because Tiger comes with 2.1.0
21:32:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r11348 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix (r11049): [OSX] killed a warning (don't ask why only OSX showed this one)
21:34:38  <ln-> what warning?
21:34:56  <Bjarni> src/vehicle_gui.cpp:1483: warning: control may reach end of non-void function 'bool IsVehicleServiceIntervalEnabled(VehicleType)' being inlined
21:35:37  <ln-> maybe it's a warning patched by apple?
21:35:41  <ln-> into gcc
21:35:43  <Bjarni> it will always trigger a return before the last line, but the compiler can't figure that out
21:35:57  <Bjarni> it's a switch-case
21:36:12  <Bjarni> yeah Apple changed some stuff in gcc
21:36:16  <Bjarni> we already noticed
21:36:34  <Bjarni> at one time I got some perfectly valid warnings, but I was the only one to get them
21:36:51  <Bjarni> but in this case the warning was false alarm
21:37:08  <Ailure> mm warnings
21:37:20  <Bjarni> now I'm back to 0 warnings
21:37:37  <Ailure> reminds me about when I was having a school project with firmware programming
21:37:47  <Ailure> we used lots of code for operating system that wasn't ours
21:37:57  <Ailure> the operating system had a quite few errors
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21:38:02  <Ailure> and from what I gather, it probably would been trival to fix them too
21:38:14  <Ailure> but it wasn't my code either way so I never bothered to touch it
21:38:20  <Bjarni> heh
21:38:41  <ln-> /Users/lauri/Softa/openttd/src/music/qtmidi.cpp: In function 'void SetMIDITypeIfNeeded(const FSSpec*)':
21:38:44  <ln-> /Users/lauri/Softa/openttd/src/music/qtmidi.cpp:92: warning: 'FSpMakeFSRef' is deprecated (declared at /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Headers/Files.h:7477)
21:38:54  <Ailure> most warnings I gotten caused my own source code
21:38:57  <Ailure> was silly things like
21:39:01  <Ailure> "no newline at end of file"
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21:40:07  <Ailure> ok, going to get some needed sleep
21:40:33  <ln-> Bjarni: another warning:
21:40:33  <Bjarni> at one time during a lecture a professor talked about how some people see C as "write only" language because once it's written nobody understands it. Then he put an example code on the projector and says that we had to use code kind of like this for the excises and talks about why it works. Then I said "you have an overflow in the line saying..."
21:40:34  <ln-> /Users/lauri/Softa/openttd/src/os/macosx/splash.cpp: In function 'void DisplaySplashImage()':
21:40:38  <ln-> /Users/lauri/Softa/openttd/src/os/macosx/splash.cpp:150: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned integer expressions
21:40:41  <Bjarni> so much for "write only" :P
21:41:47  <Bjarni> <Ailure> "no newline at end of file" <-- this is actually not a silly warning. Old compilers can't handle the code if it's missing due to how compilers works. Modern compilers tend to detect this and add the newline themselves
21:42:06  <Ailure> I meant
21:42:13  <Ailure> warnings that would be trivial to fix
21:42:21  <Ailure> I assumed it was something parser-related
21:42:38  <Ailure> so it was something I winded up fixing anyway
21:42:51  <Ailure> so even old C compilers would compile it
21:43:31  <Bjarni> basically the compiler reads the source file char by char and once it reaches } and is done, it's done. The problem is that it can't read a char before the next char is in the input buffer
21:44:07  <Ailure> ah
21:44:09  <Ailure> heh
21:44:27  <Ailure> but how old C-compilers are we talking about here anyway
21:44:41  <Ailure> I can imagine it was a common problem amongst newbies to forget that newline :P
21:45:15  <Bjarni> gcc 4 has this issue, but they added the ability to check for a trailing newline and add it if missing
21:45:38  <Bjarni> basically all the compilers has this issue. The question is if it's able to detect this and add it on it's own
21:46:05  <Bjarni> ln-: yeah... now I get this warning too... I wonder how that one started to appear....
21:46:07  <Ailure> heh
21:46:13  <Ailure> anyway, i'm going to sleep now for real.
21:46:21  <Bjarni> in your dreams
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22:39:48  <Eddi|zuHause> <Bjarni> now I'm back to 0 warnings <-- "time to target the real errors now" ;)
22:41:06  <Phazorx> hmm... where is the color which is used by spectators and server are defined?
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22:45:51  <Wolf01> 'night
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