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00:02:05 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F4262.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"] 00:04:23 <Nite> idea - teh different "slots" i was about could exist via a building that you attach to a station (a goods depot or pax hall) 00:04:49 <Nite> you then cpould click that building to use this section of the station 00:05:23 <Nite> (NO new gui wondow!) 00:06:12 <Nite> i even didnt understan why autoreplace needed an extra window 00:06:13 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 00:06:22 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a41648.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:08:07 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577B9489.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:08:14 <eekee> yeah I had replace issues earlier. I see now how powerful the replace system is, but it's a bit of a pain having to go via the one main vehicles list instead of, say, a station's train list. 00:08:55 <eekee> also it's got a bug: the waggon removal option is global, so if you run 2 replacements at the same time, you can't have one with waggon removal and one without 00:09:44 <Nite> well this dont looks like bug to me 00:11:11 <Nite> i almost never use the groups, sorting or autogrouping by shared orders would have done it for me 00:11:49 <Nite> (i know you can add all trains sharing to a group a train is alredy in) 00:12:56 <Nite> ottd is at a stage hardly to learn it from scratch if not grown with it. 00:13:11 <eekee> yeah :/ 00:13:33 <eekee> you have to muck about finding one train of the ones you wantin the big list. Pointless 00:14:01 <SmatZ> well, I agree 00:14:46 <SmatZ> autogrouping, and preferably with naming groups by destinations, would be useful 00:14:51 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:39 <Nite> well its not to hard to find a train (they have names/numbers if u noticed ;-P) 00:16:12 <Nite> but its still lot of click drag click - not really bad and not really good for me. 00:16:30 <eekee> oh it is. Not everyone can simply look at a list and pick out the entry they want 00:18:43 <Nite> ok autogroup by shared would be just fine 00:19:26 <Nite> guess i have to play a round of TTO then i would quickly stop to complain ;-) 00:20:22 <SmatZ> at least 00:20:34 <SmatZ> there is a function to add all shared vehicles to the same group 00:20:37 <SmatZ> so you create grou 00:20:38 <SmatZ> p 00:20:42 <SmatZ> add 1 vehicle to int 00:20:44 <SmatZ> it 00:20:50 <SmatZ> and then add all shared vehicles 00:20:54 <eekee> SmatZ: WE KNOW 00:21:08 <SmatZ> eekee: calm down 00:21:24 <Nite> true (i mentioned that above) 00:21:39 <SmatZ> ok sorry :-P 00:21:56 <eekee> SmatZ: just because all those steps are easy for you doesn't mean they are easy for everyone. ;) 00:21:59 <Nite> what we think about is to show trains grouped by shared orders (routes) withou tdoing anything. 00:22:20 <Nite> well erm - klicking a one button of course. 00:22:26 <SmatZ> eekee: I don't say they are easy, but it is easier than manually moving 50 vehicles from one group to another :) 00:23:30 <SmatZ> I have done a simple patch for that... but sure there is one at tt-forums, that is far advanced 00:23:32 <SmatZ> isn't it? 00:23:49 <Nite> well there is "All trains" "Ungrouped trains" and there simply has to be a "grouped by shared orders" button in future 00:24:19 <eekee> why can't you just access vehicle replace from a station or shared order list? 00:24:39 <Nite> sure ok there are patches in ottd like sand on the beach you are right ... 00:24:57 <ccfreak2k> In the SVN builds, does "Go non-stop to <station> (full load any cargo)" mean that it will speed through any stations it goes through? 00:25:32 <Nite> no 00:25:50 <ccfreak2k> This new orders GUI is confusing. 00:26:11 <Nite> if "ttdpatch compatible" is ON trains are in nonstop automatically ... 00:26:39 <Nite> sry but the orders gui looks like tto 00:26:50 <Nite> you mean timetables? 00:26:58 <ccfreak2k> I mean orders GUI. 00:27:17 <Nite> yeah mean timetables?? 00:27:23 <SmatZ> eekee: you would have to remember replace rules for each station / depot / shared orders group 00:27:26 <Nite> yeah the orders gui looks like tto 00:27:33 <ccfreak2k> TTO is? 00:27:41 <Nite> tt original 00:27:45 <ccfreak2k> O. 00:27:51 <ccfreak2k> I've uh 00:27:56 <ccfreak2k> never actually played the original. 00:27:58 <ccfreak2k> Or Deluxe. 00:28:09 <Pikka> no delete key in original D: 00:28:16 <SmatZ> [02:25:37] <ccfreak2k> In the SVN builds, does "Go non-stop to <station> (full load any cargo)" mean that it will speed through any stations it goes through? <== yes I would say 00:28:22 <SmatZ> it won't stop at intermediate stations 00:28:27 <Pikka> you have to close every window one at a time clicking on the x's :P 00:28:35 <SmatZ> hehe @ Pikka :) 00:28:46 <ccfreak2k> SmatZ, aha. 00:28:49 <SmatZ> difference between TTD and TTO? the DEL key! ;-) 00:29:14 <SmatZ> ccfreak2k: "Go via" won't stop at destination 00:29:16 <ccfreak2k> I thought the difference is 11. 00:29:22 <SmatZ> yeah 11 00:29:40 <ccfreak2k> Because O - D = 11. :) 00:29:46 <SmatZ> 8-) 00:29:50 <SmatZ> you are nerd, nice 00:29:58 <Nite> ahhh ttd means (transport tycoon deletekey) 00:30:22 <SmatZ> :) 00:31:02 <Nite> i never played the "original deluxe" just the "original original" 00:32:51 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B789B8.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:05 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B74DE4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:35:54 *** Digitalfox_ [~Digitalfo@bl8-53-122.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:37:45 <ccfreak2k> Famous Original Ray's. 00:39:50 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B75380.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:42:36 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 00:42:36 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:42:38 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 00:46:25 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl8-53-122.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 00:48:40 *** Dominik [~Dominik@dslb-092-072-005-120.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:49:34 <Nite> ray`s erm? 01:00:04 <Nite> was there wait for full load in tto? 01:04:13 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:04:23 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 01:12:57 *** Sacro_ [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 01:15:37 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:20:12 <Belugas> i don't know about TTO. But it os present in TTD. I would assume it was there too 01:20:39 <glx> in TTD it's a real full load 01:21:26 <Nite> ok and in tto i ossume it was one cargo full 01:21:37 <glx> dunno 01:22:15 <glx> I guess if it has full load it's a real one too 01:23:17 <Nite> im waiting for the 1/2 and quarter load in ottd trunk ;) as well as selecting real or unreal full load as an order 01:23:33 <SmatZ> I think Full Load was the same in TTD and TTO, that is Full Load All 01:24:08 <Nite> i guess it was full load one 01:24:16 <Nite> just a guess ... 01:24:19 <SmatZ> why? 01:24:45 <Nite> some massage from the subconcious 01:25:12 <Nite> X) 01:26:16 <Nite> (conscious *cough*) 01:26:47 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: belugas * r13643 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Enumify some loosely related values been used in the toolbar resizing processes 01:29:45 <Nite> *ottd addicted today* 01:30:22 <Belugas> hehe 01:30:27 <Belugas> not jsut today... 01:30:36 <Belugas> for the last 2 years! 01:30:48 <Belugas> now... time for my fingers to have fun... 01:30:56 * Belugas goes back to guitar playing 01:31:35 <SmatZ> :) 01:43:38 *** fjb [~frank@p5485E8E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:13 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 01:46:13 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:46:15 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 01:53:28 *** Pikka [~user@58.173.248.50] has left #openttd [] 01:55:04 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:59:15 <Belugas> done :D 01:59:25 <SmatZ> :-) 01:59:40 <Belugas> Mogai - Dial.Revenge base track is recorded, as well as a little solo :D 01:59:42 <Belugas> youhou! 01:59:51 <Belugas> now... some bridges to work on 02:00:25 <ccfreak2k> Q: Why is my train waiting at a signal, even if he has the all clear? 02:00:31 <ccfreak2k> A: The game is paused. :| 02:00:39 <Belugas> :D 02:00:48 <Belugas> at least you now know the answer ;) 02:01:00 <SmatZ> :-D 02:01:05 <Belugas> iirc, there even was a bug report becasue of that... 02:01:17 <Belugas> arhg... our interface is too hard to learn.. 02:01:24 <Belugas> buhwaaahahah! 02:16:46 <ccfreak2k> Hmm. 02:16:57 <ccfreak2k> The hilighting for YAPP on maglev rails isn't all that clear. 02:17:44 *** Sacro_ [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:20:18 *** elmex [~elmex@e180064142.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:04 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: belugas * r13644 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: 02:27:04 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Fix(r13643): compare an apple with an apple. MSVC seems to not care, but some other compilers do. 02:27:04 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: Thanks to glx :) 02:29:30 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:30:34 *** TiberiusTeng [Tiberius@140.120.15.14] has joined #openttd 02:34:22 *** Ed [~ed@117.206.55.210.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #openttd 02:34:37 *** Ed is now known as theEd 02:38:55 <ccfreak2k> It's too bad there's no mechanism to allow other companies to use your railroads. 02:39:12 <TiberiusTeng> infrastructure sharing patch 02:39:28 <ccfreak2k> There's a patch for everything, isn't there? 02:42:44 <Nite> merging companys would be cool 02:52:31 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl8-53-122.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:54:45 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577B9B4A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 02:58:21 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl8-53-122.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 03:32:10 <Nite> anyone knowing of a really good airline managing sim? 03:52:04 *** Nite [~anonym@chello062178193175.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Dana] 03:56:41 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577B9B4A.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 04:25:28 <ccfreak2k> I saw a Sim Airport or something at Best Buy about five years ago.. 04:26:26 <theEd> Airline Tycoon isn't bad, albeit rather limited as to what you can do 04:32:50 <ccfreak2k> Maybe that was it. 04:41:41 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.230.1] has joined #openttd 05:07:06 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: a1270] 05:15:58 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 05:23:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Pikka> you have to close every window one at a time clicking on the x's :P <- i was under the impression in TT you could click on the main toolbar (where the money is displayed) to close all windows 05:23:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> but that's a long time ago... 05:24:25 <ccfreak2k> But it's soooo much effort to drag the cursor all the way over to the toolbar. 05:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> the toolbar was organised differently in TT ;) 05:25:12 <ccfreak2k> And screens were so much smaller, too. 05:26:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> in TTD they moved the money out of the main toolbar, and added the status bar at the bottom 05:28:52 *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489C191.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:30:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> now that i think of it, the "close all windows" was probably a world editor feature 05:35:37 *** raimar3 [~hawk@p5489DB6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:46:42 *** einKarl [~einKarl@91-65-234-54-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 06:11:51 *** Osai`off is now known as Osai 06:15:49 *** Touqen [~stephen@c-98-216-253-146.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:18:47 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 06:22:05 *** Touqen [~stephen@c-98-216-253-146.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 06:25:08 *** curson [~curzon@p2224-ipbf215funabasi.chiba.ocn.ne.jp] has joined 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[~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 08:36:22 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@129.187.61.232] has joined #openttd 08:42:26 *** Phazorx [~opera@MS-151-113.dyn-ip.SPb.SkyLink.RU] has joined #openttd 08:42:34 <Phazorx> morning... 08:43:13 <Phazorx> pardon for stupid question but is it possible to bump max_trains on running game of relatively outdated save loaded in recebt rev? 08:44:31 <Doorslammer|BRSet> *shrugs* 08:46:43 <peter1138> patch option isn't it? 08:52:25 *** Farden123 [~jk3farden@ram94-7-82-232-189-236.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )] 08:52:27 <Phazorx> yeah, but it's been a long whie since i played so i dont recall how exactly i do it 08:52:34 <Phazorx> patch max_train = # ? 08:52:39 <Phazorx> max_trains 08:53:32 <Phazorx> or patch vahicle.max_trains? 08:54:01 <Phazorx> oh nevermind... syntax issue on m end, very dub, sorry 08:56:44 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@85.19.218.28] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:56 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@85.19.218.28] has joined #openttd 09:06:49 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F57C9D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 09:13:58 *** Phazorx [~opera@MS-151-113.dyn-ip.SPb.SkyLink.RU] has left #openttd [] 09:18:49 <ln> http://пÑОЌеÑ.ОÑпÑÑаМОе 09:19:03 <Gekz> NO U 09:19:22 <Gekz> oh crap 09:19:29 <Gekz> its the UTF8 example site! 09:21:55 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.230.1] has quit [Quit: ecke] 09:23:52 <peter1138> wrong 09:23:59 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 09:24:01 <peter1138> it's an IDN example site 09:27:23 <Gekz> he's knows my scam 09:27:25 <Gekz> how boring. 09:27:49 *** Zealotus [~Ping@217-211-211-179-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:28:07 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:28:09 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't work 09:29:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it turns into all ??? when i try to open it 09:31:05 <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause: make sure you have the right codepage 09:31:17 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:31:25 <Gekz> UTF8. 09:31:35 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.230.1] has joined #openttd 09:31:42 <Eddi|zuHause> of course, i can read it 09:31:54 <ln> it has nothing to do with UTF-8, and besides UTF-8 is mandatory over here anyway. 09:31:55 <Eddi|zuHause> and i can also read it when i paste it into the address bar 09:32:11 <Eddi|zuHause> but once i hit enter, it converts all to ??? 09:32:28 <Gekz> what browser 09:32:34 <Eddi|zuHause> konqueror 09:33:11 <Gekz> i18n? 09:33:13 <Eddi|zuHause> also when i hover over it in konversation the status bar says ??? 09:43:59 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.230.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:51:53 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: www.gmÃŒr.org works? 09:55:20 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.230.1] has joined #openttd 10:08:23 *** Hendikins [~wolfoxout@202.81.69.132] has joined #openttd 10:09:28 *** Zealotus [~Ping@217-211-211-179-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has joined 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#openttd 11:51:12 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B800E8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:53:02 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B809C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:53:05 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 11:53:47 *** Zorni [zorn@e177230111.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:54:46 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@user-54418bdb.lns1-c7.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:05:56 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F1675.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"] 12:07:08 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F1675.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:12:03 *** Osai`off is now known as Osai 12:16:19 *** einKarl [~einKarl@91-65-234-54-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 12:30:40 *** Mchl [~mchl@aber158.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 12:30:51 <Mchl> hello 12:30:56 <TiberiusTeng> now I'm thinking to challenge programmable signals ... 12:33:28 <Noldo> :) 12:34:20 <Noldo> What are programmable signals for? 12:35:41 <TiberiusTeng> check the thread in development forum :) 12:35:59 <TiberiusTeng> http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Priorities 12:36:11 <TiberiusTeng> I just don't want to carve these kind of things everytime ... 12:40:17 <Noldo> I'm a bit worried about making signals have features like: This tile can be only passed by vehicles with property X 12:40:22 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:40:25 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:41:00 <TiberiusTeng> I don't want to do it this way actually ... 12:41:17 <TiberiusTeng> It'll be better like, say, this signal will be red if signal X is red 12:41:43 <TiberiusTeng> and leave pathfinders untouched 12:41:51 <Noldo> yes that sounds more like something a signal would do 12:42:24 <TiberiusTeng> I don't feel comfortable with penality-based flow control ... since they are relative, not 'absolute' 12:42:43 *** yorick [~chatzilla@82-171-194-232.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 12:43:03 <TiberiusTeng> some trains would flow into unwanted regions, if the network is really crowded or you missed something while planning 12:43:26 <Noldo> pathfinding should be more higher level 12:43:42 <Noldo> maybe a separate local one for pbs 12:43:59 <TiberiusTeng> but I do like permissive speed signals ... those slowing yellow signals for example :p 12:44:56 <TiberiusTeng> PBS is wonderful but not stable enough IMO ... 12:45:36 <Noldo> priorities is really something that needs more elegant solution than the current one 12:46:28 *** yorick [~chatzilla@82-171-194-232.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 12:46:39 *** yorick [~Yorick@82-171-194-232.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 12:47:03 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:34 <Belugas> hello 12:50:45 *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 12:51:20 <TiberiusTeng> hi 12:51:22 <planetmaker> hey, ho 12:51:23 <yorick> hello 12:51:31 <yorick> listen what he says, ho 12:51:34 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:51:46 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 12:53:44 <Sacro> land ho? 12:53:54 <peter1138> westward ho! 12:54:33 <TiberiusTeng> Yapf is fascinating ... I can't find the way it reads railway signals ... 12:54:45 <Sacro> TiberiusTeng: i don't think it does 12:55:04 <Sacro> see what happens in rail_cmd.cpp 12:55:09 <TiberiusTeng> it relies feedback by train? 12:55:14 <TiberiusTeng> oh yes, thank you 12:56:22 <TiberiusTeng> gotcha ... 13:00:20 <Belugas> mmh? 13:01:11 <TiberiusTeng> so ... are there anybody already doing this? programmable signals? 13:01:45 <Noldo> TiberiusTeng: I have a feeling I've seen an implementation somewhere 13:02:50 <TiberiusTeng> hmm ... 13:03:34 <TiberiusTeng> actually I do want to 'script' signals myself ...... not using some weird GUI and counter-intuitive boolean expression trees ... :p 13:04:21 <Belugas> as far as i know, there is nobody who currently is working on it 13:05:33 <Belugas> and i wonder, how is it really interesting? 13:06:01 <Belugas> what is it that makes you go in that direction, apart "it's in Patch" 13:06:16 <Belugas> even if i know you don't want the same approach but still... 13:06:27 <yorick> you can filter trains by speed, cargo 13:06:41 <yorick> lenght 13:06:49 <yorick> but that are the only advantages 13:06:55 <TiberiusTeng> it could make openttdcoop load balancer much more cleaner ... perhaps as one or two signals only 13:07:11 <yorick> so could pbs 13:07:23 <TiberiusTeng> without those 'signal-propagating' tracks 13:07:47 <TiberiusTeng> I think PBS can't be used to implement load balancers ... 13:08:06 <planetmaker> ^^ difficult, I'd say 13:08:12 <TiberiusTeng> i.e. break a train on the sideline to wait until mainline traffic passed 13:08:19 <planetmaker> maybe we miss experience, though :). And hello TiberiusTeng :) 13:08:44 <TiberiusTeng> it's not realistic! (well, servicing a factory with 1000 trains isn't realistic ...) 13:09:23 <TiberiusTeng> perhaps it can be simplified to 'linking two distant (non-adjacent) signals' 13:09:32 <planetmaker> a train waiting on a SL for ML traffic to pass is IMO realistic. 13:09:47 <planetmaker> Just consider a coal train having the ICE pass by and not slowing it down. 13:09:57 <TiberiusTeng> I mean 'using tracks to propagate occupation info' part :p 13:10:09 <planetmaker> he. Yeah, full ACK :) 13:11:08 <Noldo> well, I still think signals should be on tile edges instead of tiles 13:11:32 <TiberiusTeng> but I think it's better to come up a feasible signaling schematic, before trying to implement it ... 13:11:36 <planetmaker> Noldo: too big a change. 13:11:54 <TiberiusTeng> it's kind of historic relics :p 13:12:25 <planetmaker> needs reworking of map array is what my guts feeling tells me. A not-so nice one 13:13:17 <TiberiusTeng> we need a new GUI for 'programming' the signals; but the one/the logic used by TTDP is far too complex IMO, and its functions are partially overlapped with which OTTD waypoints provide ... 13:13:51 <planetmaker> Putting the logic in the signals is more reasonable, though IMO. 13:14:15 <planetmaker> keeping waypoints as just that: waypoints to re-route certain trains over certain tracks 13:14:35 <TiberiusTeng> yep. but 'what' logic ? only depends on some distant signals, or fully supporting boolean expression, even scripting ? 13:15:09 <yorick> I'd say something like the conditional orders 13:15:13 <planetmaker> TiberiusTeng: even now they do have a logic like "pass" "not pass", "not pass, if following are all red", etc 13:15:27 <planetmaker> I meant logic in a rather general sense 13:15:32 <TiberiusTeng> oh yeah, presignals. 13:15:54 <planetmaker> logic could also be "red for trains slower than 100kph" 13:16:04 <Noldo> no! 13:16:18 <Noldo> that's not signaling 13:16:22 <yorick> yes it is 13:16:31 <yorick> because the pathfinder would avoid it 13:16:37 <yorick> UNLESS it has no other choice 13:16:44 <yorick> means that the signals could jam 13:16:46 <TiberiusTeng> ... and stuck there. ouch 13:17:27 <TiberiusTeng> that's where permissive/absolute signal differs 13:17:57 <TiberiusTeng> I don't think making speed-limiting signals absolute would be a good idea in OTTD ... 13:18:33 <Noldo> signal has to allow every train pass, the question it should answer is 'when' 13:18:34 <yorick> yes, we should revive the yellow signals for permissive red 13:18:50 <TiberiusTeng> yorick++ 13:19:11 <Noldo> and yes maybe something like how fast 13:19:24 <yorick> :) 13:20:03 <TiberiusTeng> merely providing signal linking would be a huge improvement, I think ... 13:20:33 <TiberiusTeng> basically doing what openttdcoop does, in a way that don't occupy map tiles 13:21:03 <TiberiusTeng> http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Image:Priority4.png 13:21:10 <TiberiusTeng> link A to F, G, H, I, for example 13:21:28 <TiberiusTeng> if any one of F, G, H, I is red, A will be red 13:22:42 <planetmaker> TiberiusTeng: I'm sure if you open that box of the pandora, other signal programming features will come, too - though maybe later 13:22:49 <planetmaker> despite that, it's a nice feature! 13:22:53 <Sacro> i want yellow signals 13:23:15 <TiberiusTeng> planetmaker, that's why I think it's better to plan ahead before coding :p 13:23:30 <planetmaker> TiberiusTeng: I won't contradict there. 13:23:52 <TiberiusTeng> a listbox that shows all linked signals, with a 'X' to delete either one, clicking the signal will highlight it with white/flashing red cursor, etc ... 13:23:59 <planetmaker> And a good planing will give you ground for many ways to programme signals. Doesn't mean that all are implemented 13:24:50 <TiberiusTeng> I think it's better to derive the feature set we need, by some use-cases ... 13:24:57 <planetmaker> Sacro: depends upon what "yellow signal" means 13:25:17 <Sacro> planetmaker: it isn't red 13:25:19 <Sacro> or green 13:25:26 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00af11.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:25:32 <TiberiusTeng> the yellow signal itself looks cool, but the problem is how to use it ;) 13:25:48 <TiberiusTeng> actually I like the 'permissive red' idea 13:25:56 <planetmaker> Well. I certainly would have a need for signals with speed or cargo-type restrictions... 13:26:41 <TiberiusTeng> but I think I'll need to digest YAPP and original signaling code first ... 13:28:06 <planetmaker> hm... yapp could / should be quite independent of signal logic in whatever sense. 13:28:27 *** De_Ghosty [~s@CPE001d7e66291b-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:28:29 *** De_Ghosty [~s@CPE001d7e66291b-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 13:29:36 <TiberiusTeng> I just don't want to broke things :P 13:30:01 <planetmaker> hehe. But I think it's mostly important to not break things in trunk :) 13:30:11 <TiberiusTeng> ahh yes :p 13:30:25 <TiberiusTeng> reminds me of savegame compatibility. 13:30:40 <planetmaker> evil issue... :S 13:31:15 <TiberiusTeng> ok, double-click to remove NewGRFs in new newgrf window done. :D 13:31:40 <planetmaker> oh, you're working on that? Nice! 13:31:54 <TiberiusTeng> an one-liner, actually :P 13:32:09 <planetmaker> doesn't matter :) 13:32:12 <yorick> also got the dragdrop? 13:32:13 <Eddi|zuHause> <TiberiusTeng> the yellow signal itself looks cool, but the problem is how to use it ;) <- in germany, "presignal" means it can be green/green (= next "mainsignal" is green), green/yellow (= next mainsignal is green, but slower speed limit) or yellow/yellow (= next mainsignal is red, start stopping) 13:32:19 <yorick> Roest was working on that 13:32:24 <Eddi|zuHause> presignals are always 1km before the main signal 13:32:56 <TiberiusTeng> dragdrop's used to rearrange newgrf orders for now 13:33:12 <TiberiusTeng> adding/removing with double-clicking is faster 13:33:13 <yorick> nice :) 13:33:18 <yorick> tru 13:33:20 <yorick> e 13:33:23 *** Wold [~Wold@wold.tbc.bg] has joined #openttd 13:33:32 <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: post it at FS 13:33:54 <TiberiusTeng> I think he was trying to save the size of newgrf window, but didn't finished it 13:33:54 <yorick> Ammler, AFAIK, the devs don't want it because it's too big 13:34:17 <Ammler> yorick: that window can be smaller then the original 13:34:35 <TiberiusTeng> I made it resizable earlier 13:34:41 <yorick> yes, but can you resize it on a 320x240 device? 13:35:01 <TiberiusTeng> seems I should find a way to get the initial size 13:35:20 <TiberiusTeng> maybe one-liner, maybe not, I dunno 13:35:26 <TiberiusTeng> how should I do it? 13:35:38 <Ammler> yorick: it has the size of the welcome GUI 13:35:49 <yorick> Ammler, that one's too big 13:35:56 <yorick> it doesn't fit on the nds 13:37:38 <TiberiusTeng> perhaps I should cap it with _screen.width/height ? 13:37:51 <TiberiusTeng> but wait, the NDS screen is not entirely touch-sensitive 13:38:10 <yorick> true 13:38:13 <TiberiusTeng> and I would hate to enlarge the window every time on my 1680x1050 13:38:28 <yorick> but you can swap the screens on the nds 13:38:30 <yorick> port 13:41:05 <TiberiusTeng> display the old one in NDS and the new one elsewhere? :p 13:42:14 <yorick> could be 13:42:33 <yorick> but openttd could run on other devices 13:42:37 <glx> IIRC the old one is already too big 13:42:44 <yorick> glx: I said that 13:45:22 *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:45:30 <yorick> 088: error: invalid conversion from `NetworkClientInfo*' to `NetworkClientInfo*' 13:46:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you are doing it wrong ;) 13:47:15 <TiberiusTeng> anyway, resizing of the window is still strange ... 13:47:55 <TiberiusTeng> sometimes OnResize() will get impossible values 13:51:17 <glx> yorick: isn't there a const somewhere in this message? 13:51:19 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 13:51:29 <yorick> not that I know of 13:52:11 * yorick rereads message, ah, there :) 13:52:14 <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: the width is ok 13:52:51 <Ammler> min size is 305*200 13:53:09 <Ammler> that would fit the NDS, wouldn't? 13:53:16 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:35 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 13:53:36 <TiberiusTeng> no it wouldn't 13:53:38 <TiberiusTeng> 256 x 192 13:54:00 <Ammler> http://img10.myimg.de/grfguifec3a.png 13:54:06 <Ammler> oh, that small? 13:54:27 <yorick> :) 13:54:32 <TiberiusTeng> and I think the bottom area could be smaller when resizing 13:54:50 <TiberiusTeng> when resizing to a small size ... 13:55:09 <Ammler> you could skip the info box 13:55:17 <Ammler> just name and parameters. 13:55:34 <Ammler> name isn't needed either. 13:59:14 <TiberiusTeng> go home ... 13:59:18 *** TiberiusTeng [Tiberius@140.120.15.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:00:28 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577AD4AE.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:08:38 <Eddi|zuHause> in that picture above, the status fields are way too large, they should never exceed 1/3 of the window, maybe add additional scrollbars 14:09:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and maybe the separator in the middle should be smaller 14:11:08 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@129.187.61.232] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK] 14:14:16 *** curson [~curzon@p2224-ipbf215funabasi.chiba.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #openttd 14:29:30 *** TiberiusTeng [~Tiberius@sbt.idv.tw] has joined #openttd 14:33:16 <planetmaker> or arange for small screens the windows vertically than horizontally as now 14:38:40 <TiberiusTeng> sounds tedious to implement :p 14:44:14 *** Osai is now known as Osai^Kendo 14:45:20 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host86-146-18-220.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:47:33 *** Osai^Kendo is now known as Osai^Kendo`off 14:49:12 <Eddi|zuHause> have you read the logs? 14:52:42 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499ED4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:52:57 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:53:27 <yorick> should a company password window really be able to close it's parent on window overflow? 14:55:40 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:56:37 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:01:43 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r13645 /trunk/src/tgp.cpp: -Codechange: Convert a macro into an inlined member function. 15:06:47 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499ED4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:09:55 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499ED4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:13:14 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 15:13:45 *** fjb [~frank@p5485DEC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:13:51 <fjb> Hello 15:14:03 <yorick> hihahello 15:31:48 *** blathijs [~matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:51 *** blathijs [~matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 15:32:04 *** TheMask97 [martijn@sirius-r5.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:32:04 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sirius-r5.ne2000.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:34:59 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 15:40:43 *** Mchl [~mchl@aber158.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 15:41:23 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm237.epsilon121.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 15:45:10 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm237.epsilon121.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [] 15:45:26 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm237.epsilon121.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 15:50:51 <yorick> TiberiusTeng: I just tested the opengl blitter on another pc, it works nicely :) 15:51:14 <TiberiusTeng> yorick, what's the graphics board that PC's using ? 15:51:20 <yorick> only some scrolling artifacts if I use the fast scrolling 15:51:25 <yorick> I'll test 15:51:35 <TiberiusTeng> and ... did you tried panning when zoomed out 8x ? 15:51:44 <yorick> yes 15:51:58 <yorick> only some artifacts when using shift-scroll 15:51:58 <TiberiusTeng> was it laggy ? 15:52:03 <TiberiusTeng> hmm 15:52:08 <yorick> nope 15:52:12 <yorick> not laggy at all 15:52:17 <yorick> with trees on toyland enabled 15:52:46 <yorick> GeForce 7600 GS 15:52:49 <TiberiusTeng> what's shift-scroll ? never used this function before 15:52:58 <TiberiusTeng> ahh, almost the same card as mine :) 15:53:04 <yorick> try holding shift and then pressing the arrow keys 15:53:06 <yorick> 268435456 bytes (256 MB) 15:53:15 <yorick> 1280 x 1024 - 32 bit 15:53:22 <yorick> 96 dpi 15:53:37 <TiberiusTeng> ok I see 15:54:13 <TiberiusTeng> hope it helps in some extreme (?) situations :p 15:54:30 <yorick> any tools I can use to see the fps? 15:54:57 <yorick> screen is on 60 fps, btw 15:59:43 <yorick> panning horizontally seems more laggy than vertically 16:02:52 <TiberiusTeng> fraps 16:03:18 <TiberiusTeng> perhaps you need to force disable VSync in NV control panel 16:04:12 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Quick Q guys 16:04:18 <Doorslammer|BRSet> The light in TT 16:04:26 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Which way does the light come from? 16:04:34 <yorick> from a universal direction 16:04:39 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Right to left or left to right? 16:04:39 <yorick> try looking at shared 16:04:43 <yorick> shades of planes 16:04:59 <Doorslammer|BRSet> I dont exactly know what to look at 16:05:00 <Belugas> right to left 16:05:08 <Doorslammer|BRSet> I think the majority of the BR Set is wrong :S 16:05:14 <Doorslammer|BRSet> I thought so :O 16:05:20 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Cheers guys 16:07:24 <Belugas> well... it's not totally right to left, to be exact 16:08:01 <Belugas> more like north-east to south-west 16:08:12 <yorick> try looking at the shades the planes have 16:08:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the slopes should be the best source ;) 16:08:54 <Belugas> am looking at the slopes :) 16:08:57 *** Doorslammer|BRSet is now known as Doorslammer 16:10:17 *** Logix [logix@76-233-19-71.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:10:17 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:24 <Belugas> and yes, the planes confirm the slopes... 16:11:33 <Belugas> luckily for planes 16:16:58 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: belugas * r13646 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Change: typos and miss-aligned enum values 16:18:31 <Doorslammer> Cock, got it wrong 16:18:37 * Doorslammer slaps Doorslammer around a bit with a large trout 16:18:53 <Belugas> poor trout :( 16:18:58 <Doorslammer> Flip horizontal in Paint should cure things, yes? 16:20:58 <yorick> not really, no 16:21:11 <yorick> because paint sucks at sprites 16:21:38 <Doorslammer> I dont think its that bad surely? 16:21:52 <Doorslammer> Purno uses it all the time apparently 16:23:38 <yorick> you get in the way with shadows 16:24:29 <fjb> Apropos planes. How do I calculate where I can build an airport when the town cares about the noise? I don't understand the distance formula in the wiki. 16:24:33 <Doorslammer> I dont follow 16:27:39 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 16:28:16 <Belugas> fjb, it depends what you want to achieve 16:28:38 <Belugas> the close the airport is frm the town center, the more noise the town will perceive 16:28:57 *** Doorslammer is now known as Doorslammer|BRSet 16:29:11 <Belugas> from 0 to 8 tiles away (with regard of the closest tile from town center), the ful amount of the airport noise is used 16:29:25 <Belugas> the further you are, the more it decrease 16:29:33 <fjb> How do I calculate how far away from the town I have to place the airport. 16:29:46 <Belugas> it depends 16:30:00 <Belugas> define youre definition of "how far awy" 16:30:10 <Belugas> waht dos it means for you? 16:30:27 <fjb> How many tiles away.? 16:30:50 <Belugas> you can put the airport next to the town center if you will 16:30:55 <Belugas> or even 100 tiles away 16:31:11 <Belugas> what do you want to ACHIEVE 16:31:55 <fjb> Say the town allow a noise level of 13, but I want to build an airport which generates a noise level of 17. Where di I have to place it? 16:32:25 <Belugas> what is your town's setting for tolerance? 16:32:28 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Thanks, BTW 16:32:44 <fjb> Ofcouse I want to build it as near to the center of the town as possible. 16:33:56 <fjb> Is there a setting for tolerance? Or is the the general tolerance for building stations? 16:34:05 <Belugas> town_council_tolerance 16:34:35 <Belugas> ingame, it's on the difficulty level, last entry 16:34:59 <fjb> Ok, I will look at it in the console. 16:35:54 <Belugas> so, you need a noise reduction of 4 16:36:01 <Belugas> the formula is: 16:36:15 <fjb> Oh, how do I open the ingame console? I was the key above the tab key. But that doesn't work right now. 16:37:02 <fjb> The initial configfile hat a tolarance of 1, should be the medium setting. 16:37:08 <yorick> ` 16:37:38 <Belugas> 8 tiles times (4<- general multiplier) + (town_council_tolerance) 16:37:55 *** yorick [~Yorick@82-171-194-232.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!] 16:38:57 <Belugas> tis gives you a factor 16:39:08 <Belugas> ho... simpler... 16:39:13 <Belugas> /* The steps for measuring noise reduction are based on the "magical" (and arbitrary) 8 base distance 16:39:14 <Belugas> * adding the town_council_tolerance 4 times, as a way to graduate, depending of the tolerance. 16:39:14 <Belugas> * Basically, it says that the less tolerant a town is, the bigger the distance before 16:39:14 <Belugas> * an actual decrease can be granted */ 16:39:22 <Belugas> /* now, we want to have the distance segmented using the distance judged bareable by town 16:39:22 <Belugas> * This will give us the coefficient of reduction the distance provides. */ 16:39:28 <Belugas> /* If the noise reduction equals the airport noise itself, don't give it for free. 16:39:29 <Belugas> * Otherwise, simply reduce the airport's level. */ 16:39:32 <Belugas> there 16:39:41 <Belugas> the comments are saying every thing you need 16:41:12 <fjb> Hm, tolerace is 1. So 8 + 4 * 1 = 12. 16:44:04 <fjb> My airport makes 4 for noise than the town tolerates (town: 13, airport: 17). Does that get included into the calculation somewhere? Or is there no difference if the airport make one level too much noise or of makes 4 level or even 20 level too much noise? 16:45:48 <Belugas> not really. what is important is the distance from town center. It gets divided by the amount you found ealier (12) 16:45:54 <Belugas> so each 12 tiles, 16:46:05 <Belugas> you will get one noise level reduction 16:46:57 <Belugas> so to answer your quwesiton with words, you will nned 48 tiles ( 12 * 4) to achieve tp place your 17 noise airport when the town ony allows for 13 16:47:19 <fjb> Ah, thak you. So to get the 4 needed level I have to build the airport 48 tiles away from the center of the town. 16:47:29 <Belugas> yes. 16:48:08 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 16:48:22 <fjb> Nearest edge of the airport counts? And the center of the town is the tile with the town name? And the distance is the usual manhattan distance? 16:49:00 <Belugas> if it was a permissive town (=0), it would have been based on 8 instead of 12 (8+(4*0)) 16:50:17 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 16:50:18 <fjb> I guess I under stood it now. Hope I don't forget it. Not easy to find a place for a big airpoert. But I like that new noise based system. 16:51:14 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:14 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 16:52:01 <Belugas> :) 16:52:08 <Belugas> i do too 16:52:25 <Belugas> i'm just happy that it's finaly in trunk... 16:54:54 <fjb> Now we need kind of some passenger destinations thing. Or the possibility to transport cargos bidirectional. My planned international airport will have to be far away for any house. 16:55:18 <fjb> from 16:57:06 <Belugas> funny how frequently "we need" is used when talking about one person's desires ;) 16:57:39 <Belugas> [12:45] <fjb> Nearest edge of the airport counts? And the center of the town is the tile with the town name? And the distance is the usual manhattan distance? <-- yes to all these questions 16:58:52 <fjb> I think I'm not the only one who thinks that transporting cargos in both directions without picking up the just delivered cargos would be desirable. 17:03:57 <fjb> With that feature it would be possible to build an airport out of town where no houses are, the feed it with a railway, bus or tram line and take the arrived passengers to the town using that same line. 17:08:41 <TiberiusTeng> I think I'll fix NewGRF window first, then actually start researching distant signal linking. 17:09:16 <TiberiusTeng> since waypoints can already do many things that route restrictions / programmable signals in TTDP ... 17:14:09 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: first step: add a "destination station" entry to the cargo packet 17:15:59 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: fill that with random values, do not use the value for anything important, and check if it doesn't desync 17:16:27 <fjb> I don't know if that is the right step. Do we really need destinations for every cargo? And how do you set that destination? Wouln't it be enough to prevent cargo packets from getting back to the station they just came from? 17:16:54 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the first step: add the POSSIBILITY to have destinations 17:17:05 <Eddi|zuHause> if you use them for every cargo is a completely different question 17:17:16 <Eddi|zuHause> *whether 17:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and yes, depending on difficulty options, potentially every cargo should have a destination 17:18:51 <fjb> I tried the last passenger destinations patch. it is really hard to get started with a passenger only network with that patch enabled. You simply have not network to reach every possible destination at the beginning of the game. 17:19:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a balance issue 17:19:26 <Eddi|zuHause> push that very far back the queue of features ;) 17:20:06 <Eddi|zuHause> it MUST NOT desync, that's the main problem of the last patch 17:20:22 <fjb> Just adding features with a goal in mind doesn't look like the way to go. 17:20:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it's called "step", not "just randomly add a feature" 17:20:56 <Belugas> yeah 17:21:08 <Belugas> i agree with Eddi|zuHause 17:22:51 <fjb> Did the desyncs come from the destination or from finding the routes? 17:23:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the desyncs came from not properly storing the information in the savegame 17:24:28 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad1ee3a.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:46 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5ad1ee3a.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 17:24:49 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 17:24:55 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host126-174-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:25:38 <Wolf01> hello 17:25:38 <fjb> Hm, destinations for all cargos would change the srtyle of the game. Not that I would care, but other might. So is it worth it? 17:25:48 <fjb> Hello Wolf01 17:26:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i said OPTION, do you actually read? 17:26:54 <fjb> I read. But what is an option good for if almost nobody uses it. 17:27:12 <Belugas> wasting executable size 17:27:13 <Eddi|zuHause> what survey tells you that it would not be used? 17:27:27 <fjb> I fear that it will really slow down the game, even if not enabled. 17:27:34 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.230.1] has quit [Quit: ecke] 17:28:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and i would not want to manage two different sized cargo packages, depending if the option is used or not 17:28:07 <Wolf01> forcing users is not the right way to do a thing, an option is really better, also if doing so the feature will be used only by some people 17:28:41 <Wolf01> but at least you satisfied both who wanted the feature and who don't want it 17:29:09 <fjb> Wolf01: Ofcourse it would have to be an option. But even then you get some overhead in the code when the feature is disabled. 17:29:09 *** Phoenix_the_II [rdeboom@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 17:29:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the main feature of cargo destinations would be to reduce the micromanagement needed for limited-acceptance-industries like PBI or ECS 17:30:18 <Eddi|zuHause> because cargo would automatically be distributed between different such industries 17:30:57 <fjb> ECS is a bit hard to handle. I don't know if that would be easier with the destination feature. 17:31:10 <Eddi|zuHause> but that is not the question at all 17:31:37 <Belugas> automatic distribution... 17:31:41 <Belugas> yurk 17:31:54 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem at hand are the game internals, the very foundation of the patch 17:31:55 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:55 <Belugas> another tool to make the game easier 17:32:00 <Wolf01> <fjb> [...]But even then you get some overhead in the code when the feature is disabled. <- I'm not really sure, but I think that a well written code might "fix" this 17:32:07 <Belugas> a button and see it work on itself! 17:32:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: no, you still have to run the trains ;) 17:32:24 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 17:32:53 <Belugas> wanna bet someone would come up with such an idea ? 17:33:04 <Belugas> LAZINESS!!! 17:33:06 <Belugas> prrrrrt 17:33:42 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a difference between "laziness" and "extensive micromanagement" 17:33:46 <Wolf01> like the daylength, if you set it to 1, the game behave in the same way, if you set it > 1 you open the pandora's box 17:35:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: be glad i didn't use the r-word ;) 17:36:40 <Eddi|zuHause> businesses plan their transports based on supply and demand, and THEN ask the transport company to transport it 17:36:58 <Wolf01> and I really know it well, I'm writing a software with a lot of flags and options which influence each others, so I must be sure that when I enable an option, all the others must work together the new one, but when I disable an option, this should not exist at all 17:37:30 <fjb> Industries with stockpiling can change their mind a few times between loading a vehicle and the vehicle reaching the industry. I don't think that it can be used to distribute the cargos is respect to stockpiling. 17:38:15 <Eddi|zuHause> very loosely related question: why don't wagons have any running cost? 17:38:35 <Wolf01> yeah, good point 17:38:38 <ccfreak2k> Because they would have maintenance costs instead. 17:38:39 <Eddi|zuHause> (or change the running cost of the engine) 17:41:16 <fjb> And making the new option play nicely together with all other options is not the biggest problem. Look at the amount of cargos that gets transportet. So even a small overhead will have an impact. 17:41:30 <Wolf01> mmmh, since when I started the hotkeys patch I didn't read any suggestion, do this mean that I can continue my work? 17:42:51 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: don't talk about overhead before you implemented and profiled anything 17:43:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: several people already started hotkey patches, did you talk with them? 17:44:14 <Wolf01> I never seen an hotkey patch, so I don't know who talk to 17:44:33 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: You should think about the balance betwenn code duplication and compiting overhead before you start to rewrite half of the game. 17:45:07 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody said anything about a rewrite 17:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i said: add a member to a struct, and then make sure it is properly storedd 17:46:22 *** Boyinblue0 [~admin@5ac37e74.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 17:46:56 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13647 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: replace MAX_UVALUE() for std types with the equivalent constant 17:52:17 *** TiberiusTeng [~Tiberius@sbt.idv.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:56:45 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:57:04 *** Logix [logix@76-233-19-71.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 17:58:16 <fjb> How about remembering which station a cargo packed has last seen. And a vehicle will not pick up that packet if the remembered station is in the vehicles order list? 17:59:55 <eekee> that's my favoured option, if that counts for anything. I think it acheives quite a lot from a simple process 18:01:19 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: rembember what i said? add struct, check multiplayer compliance... there was nothing said about WHAT you write in the struct member!! 18:01:56 *** mikk36 [~mikk36@195-50-204-106-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 18:01:58 <mikk36> hey 18:02:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and remembering last station will solve nothing, it will just push the problem to the next level (3 vehicles going in circles) 18:02:09 <mikk36> q: what could be the problem when i i get error when starting up autopilot, stating that there's an error for math function, while executing expr (pow(2,[get_setting patches map_y])) ? 18:02:36 <glx> mikk36: using trunk? 18:02:40 <mikk36> yes 18:02:44 <mikk36> today's 18:02:55 <Eddi|zuHause> mikk36: .cfg format has changed 18:03:04 <mikk36> so... 18:03:12 <Eddi|zuHause> several weeks ago 18:03:21 <mikk36> no autopilot until someone has updated it ? 18:03:34 <glx> so autopilot needs to be updated for trunk 18:03:38 <mikk36> ok then 18:04:02 <Eddi|zuHause> [get_setting patches map_y] <- replace the "patches" there with the new group 18:04:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and in the map_x line as well 18:04:46 <glx> and all get_setting lines indeed ;) 18:07:29 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: That will ofcourse be no automatic distribution system. You will still have to plan your routes. but it woul make bidirectinal traffic possible. 18:07:54 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: i understand what it dies 18:07:59 <Eddi|zuHause> *does 18:08:10 <Eddi|zuHause> but i said it will not solve anything 18:08:21 <Eddi|zuHause> scenario: 3 airports 18:08:29 <Eddi|zuHause> plane 1: 1<->2 18:08:35 <Eddi|zuHause> plane 2: 2<->3 18:08:40 <Eddi|zuHause> plane 3: 1<->3 18:08:41 <fjb> It will solve the no bidirectional distribution problem. 18:08:55 <Eddi|zuHause> the passengers might go in circles indefinitely 18:09:09 <Eddi|zuHause> because they get "catched" by a plane before they can enter the shuttle bus 18:09:35 <fjb> Yes. When your network is not properly made you carry the passengers in circle. Just as you do tzoday. 18:09:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it shifts the problem, does not solve it 18:09:41 <Ammler> mikk36: do you need a patch for ap? 18:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause> as thus i would definitely reject the "solution" 18:10:20 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:11:16 <fjb> You can always build unusual networks. And a feature is not no solution to a problem because it is not foolproof. 18:11:16 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause, fjb: You should better come up with a way, to determine which station a vehicle will visit next. Esp. when not using 'non-stop' orders. 18:11:57 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: planes connecting different airports is definitely not an "unusual" network 18:12:10 <fjb> frosch123: That sounds like a loop through the orders list. 18:12:24 <frosch123> when not using 'non-stop'? 18:12:32 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: trains need not have all stations they visit in the orders 18:12:46 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: A planed connection please, not just random connections without thinking. 18:13:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you are talking rubbish 18:14:18 <Eddi|zuHause> both frosch123's and my objections are valid reasons to reject your approach 18:14:31 <fjb> frosch123: Hm, ok, because of that I said that vehicle should not pick up the packet if the station it last came from is anywhere on the orders list, not just the next station on the list. 18:14:52 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: that does not catch ring-traffic 18:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and again, the station need not be in the order list AT ALL 18:15:48 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: That is what I wrote. 18:16:36 <fjb> It still needs a well planes network then, no random network. 18:16:42 <fjb> planed 18:16:54 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean "planned" 18:17:15 * frosch123 came to the conclusion that there will never be way to predict the next station. Only working solution (I know of) would be to let the user specify for each order, which passengers are allowed to board. But who will be able to use such a system... 18:18:10 <Eddi|zuHause> that's exactly what i mean, the approach is just not practical because it is too fixed on patching up a symptom, not the cause of the problem 18:18:41 <fjb> frosch123: When thinking about it, you are right. That feature would have to be coupled to nonstop orders. I didn't think about that. 18:18:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and no matter how many patches you stick on, there will always be wounds that are bigger than the patch 18:19:57 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: But I don't think your automatic distribution system will really solve anything. At least not the stockpiling difficulties. 18:20:34 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: that is not the goal at all 18:20:48 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: And it is big news to me that you can reject any new approach any new feature. 18:21:20 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: have you learned the magic of a CONDITIONAL clause yet? 18:22:09 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: So why did you add your selself then? 18:22:14 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: assume an implicit "if i was in the position of a dev" 18:23:07 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: and i already got at least one dev who backed me up on some of my statements and conclusions 18:24:35 <frosch123> what? - I was going against both of you... 18:25:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i was not talking about you ;) 18:25:28 <frosch123> ah ok :) nevermind 18:26:16 *** Boyinblue0 [~admin@5ac37e74.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 18:27:16 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the last paxdest patch used a prediction about connection based on the order list, and then expanded these connections once stations were actually visited by a vehicle [under the assumption that the vehicle will at some point visit the station again] 18:27:22 <Belugas> who then? 18:28:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the stations built up a number of possible connections and a statistic about how long the travel time there usually takes, and then made decisions what vehicles the passengers would take 18:29:15 <fjb> Belugas: I fear he was talking about you. 18:29:37 *** Logix [logix@76-233-19-71.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:29:52 <Eddi|zuHause> [19:21] <Belugas> i agree with Eddi|zuHause <- proof ;) 18:30:08 <Eddi|zuHause> [although the discussion went quite far since then] 18:31:02 <Belugas> that is what i wold call hijacking! 18:31:09 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the problem at hand was storing any kind of station [whether past or future] in the cargo packet 18:31:26 <Eddi|zuHause> once you get that feature stable, you can talk about what to do with it 18:31:28 <Belugas> [13:18] <Eddi|zuHause> it's called "step", not "just randomly add a feature" 18:31:29 <Belugas> [13:18] <@Belugas> yeah 18:31:29 <Belugas> [13:18] <@Belugas> i agree with Eddi|zuHause 18:31:36 <Eddi|zuHause> everything else is just wild speculation 18:32:07 <Belugas> It won't give up 18:32:07 <Belugas> it wants me dead 18:32:07 <Belugas> and God damn this noise 18:32:07 <Belugas> inside my head 18:32:24 <Eddi|zuHause> s/^/#/g 18:38:18 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm237.epsilon121.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: :o] 18:43:20 *** Doorslammer|BRSet [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-42.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit [] 18:44:26 *** powell [~powell@cpe-024-162-243-234.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 18:45:33 *** Wold [~Wold@wold.tbc.bg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:51:30 <Belugas> mmh... 18:51:33 <Belugas> i wonder... 18:52:14 <Belugas> maybe that cargo knowing its dstination may be solved looking at the other angle 18:53:27 <Belugas> if there is the POSSIBILITY for a cargo to move to more than two stations, then it might be possible to have some kind of a decent system 18:53:52 <Belugas> but that means an intelligence somewhere on the cargo management 19:07:44 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: bbml] 19:08:30 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:09:26 <mikk36> why is there so short message size limit ? 19:10:10 <Belugas> ? 19:11:37 <yorick> Belugas: the chat limit got decreased drastically somewhere between 0.6 and current trunk 19:13:12 <Belugas> drastically? 19:13:15 <Belugas> like... 19:13:25 <Belugas> by how much chars? 19:13:28 <Belugas> since when? 19:13:42 <Belugas> it's supposed to be 64 chars, i believe 19:14:28 <yorick> I don't think it is 19:14:32 <yorick> I'll check 0.6 19:15:31 <planetmaker> it is 64 chars or so. But longer would be better. And it was longer before :), but got fixed 19:15:56 <yorick> I can fit the alfabet in it 3 times 19:16:00 <yorick> in 0.6 19:16:06 <yorick> 'fixed' 19:16:15 <yorick> since when is decreasing limits called fixing? 19:16:46 <Eddi|zuHause> afaik it was limited by the window width before, which is totally unrelated to the number of characters 19:17:00 <Belugas> since when imprecision drives everything? 19:17:20 <yorick> but why did it have to be made this short? 19:17:56 <Eddi|zuHause> most 19:17:57 <Eddi|zuHause> people 19:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> make 19:17:59 <Eddi|zuHause> only 19:18:01 <Eddi|zuHause> one 19:18:02 <Eddi|zuHause> word 19:18:04 <yorick> per 19:18:06 <yorick> message 19:18:08 <yorick> but 19:18:10 <yorick> I 19:18:11 <yorick> don't 19:18:14 <yorick> normally 19:18:15 <yorick> do 19:18:16 <yorick> that 19:18:16 <mikk36> i neither 19:18:18 <Eddi|zuHause> :p 19:18:30 <yorick> and 64 chars is really short 19:18:51 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what you get when you have to go with the majority :p 19:19:03 <eekee> argh 64 is impossible! I used an environment with a 255-char limit for a long time, that was harsh 19:19:07 <yorick> like I can only fit a message in it that's exactly this lenght 19:19:20 <mikk36> 1 sentence per message is really short 19:19:50 <Eddi|zuHause> provide a patch that adds a hook to split lines at word boundaries ;) 19:20:04 <yorick> wuh? 19:20:10 <Eddi|zuHause> [not necessary ALL word boundaries] 19:20:41 <yorick> juse I'd rather have a longer chat limit 19:20:56 <yorick> because openttd does the linebreaking, no? 19:21:56 <planetmaker> it's reasonable to have a limit so that a message where you fell asleep on your keyboard doesn't flush the whole chat. 19:22:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you see, when you write a really long line that makes absolutely no sense but you want to not press enter inbetween it automatically figures out which word will overlap the line limit and split the line before that word, so you can safely type on and on and on and on till the dawn breaks and never get interrupted by any stupid line limit 19:22:23 <planetmaker> :P 19:22:36 <yorick> irc also has a line limit somewhere 19:22:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it adds line breaks on display, but not on sending 19:22:53 <yorick> altho it was previously SHORTER than the openttd limit 19:22:54 <Eddi|zuHause> and the send buffer is what limits the line length 19:22:55 <Ammler> yorick: you can also see on our ps, that ottd can still handle longer lines, as it does with chat from IRC 19:23:01 <planetmaker> a limit doesn't hurt as long as it's not limit to usual sentences :) 19:23:14 <Eddi|zuHause> IRC has 512 characters limit afaik 19:23:25 <planetmaker> and my usual sentences easily cover twice or three times as many characters as 64 :) 19:23:32 <yorick> Ammler, yes, the actualy message is tranffered over a much longer char 19:23:55 <yorick> I find it stupid that you can not write messages as long as the limit gui-wise 19:24:09 <Ammler> the ingame chat is a bug, I assume and not feature :-) 19:24:19 <yorick> it is ;( 19:24:52 <planetmaker> rather both: buggy feature :P 19:25:24 <Ammler> yorick: as network patcher, you should be able to fix it :P 19:25:30 <planetmaker> but bug sounds so... wrong. Let's call it a feature with room for improvements :) 19:25:47 <yorick> Ammler, I'm already looking into it 19:26:15 <Eddi|zuHause> a feature with room for "features" :p 19:26:59 <yorick> #define MAX_TEXT_MSG_LEN 1024 19:27:10 <yorick> can I now kill the one who tought of that 64 gui-limit 19:27:15 <yorick> @calc 1024/64 19:27:15 <DorpsGek> yorick: 16 19:27:32 <yorick> you made the gui-chat limit actually 16 times smaller than it could be 19:27:42 <yorick> congratulations :) 19:28:36 <glx> <yorick> #define MAX_TEXT_MSG_LEN 1024 <-- and how does that fit in a packet? 19:29:00 <yorick> glx, we have *tcp( 19:29:01 <yorick> * 19:29:03 <yorick> tcp* 19:29:16 <ben_goodger> glx: with an MTU of 1500 I'd expect it to fit quite nicely 19:29:22 <glx> yorick: and the 64 limit appeared with window classification 19:29:23 <fjb> jumbo packets... 19:29:51 <glx> because all other text input are 64 19:31:25 <yorick> glx: could you extend that text input limit? 19:32:23 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-177-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:34:01 <glx> not easy 19:34:42 <eekee> but it's daft for a chat window to have no longer length than name windows. It should be a different class, somehow :/ 19:35:46 <yorick> glx: yeah, it involves changing 2 numbers 19:36:10 <glx> yorick: but other text input should stay 64 19:36:35 <eekee> can you subclass the general text input? 19:36:50 * eekee is thinking in general OO terms, knows nothing of C++ 19:37:26 <yorick> glx: should they? 19:37:52 <glx> yes 19:38:02 <yorick> they should? 19:38:50 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-177-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: und weg] 19:40:41 <yorick> possibly make a var somewhere in the querystring struct that'd allow for changing the size? 19:42:03 <yorick> hmmm no 19:43:18 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY 19:43:25 <yorick> is there no way you could override edit_str_buf and orig_str_buf when initializing the NetworkChatWindow 19:44:45 <yorick> InitializeTextBuffer(&this->text, this->edit_str_buf, lengthof(this->edit_str_buf), 0); <-- how about replacing that with InitializeTextBuffer(&this->text, this->edit_str_long_buf, lengthof(this->edit_str_long_buf), 0);? 19:46:11 <glx> and adding a buffer unused for most of text inputs? 19:46:28 <yorick> quite 19:46:34 <glx> memory waste 19:46:38 <yorick> better idea? 19:48:18 <yorick> but yes, adding a 1 kb per editbox is a memory waste :) 19:53:43 <yorick> you could also define a whole new querystringbasewindow 19:55:03 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@user-54418bdb.lns1-c7.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:55:49 <glx> yorick: it will take some time to make it in a clean way 19:57:36 <eekee> wtf? how many edit boxes could anyone have open at once? How is 1KB a waste? 19:58:22 <yorick> 1024 chars 19:58:28 <yorick> dunno if that's a big wast 19:58:29 <yorick> e 19:58:34 <yorick> and eekee, try 25 19:59:38 <glx> only one usable at a time 20:00:06 <yorick> yes 20:00:11 <yorick> but the 25 buffers 20:02:24 <eekee> 25k instead of 1.6k. okaaay.. hmm, well, my PDA (that thing I carry in my pocket which has barely enough processing power to run a 128x128 map with ECS) has 64 megabytes of ram. 25k is 0.04% of that 20:03:08 <yorick> if I calculated the memory usage of a char[1024] correctly 20:03:21 <yorick> and I don't think I have, taking unicode into concideration 20:04:04 <eekee> well double or quadruple my numbers if you like. 4 bytes per char comes to 0.15% 20:04:21 <eekee> There is avoiding bloat, there is lightness and purity, and then there is extreme asceticism! ;) 20:04:59 <eekee> Sorry if that was OTT 20:05:07 <yorick> just an unused char[1024] for every editbox 20:05:29 <yorick> you got 100kb at full 20:05:54 <yorick> and 100kb on a 100MB-usage map is 20:05:55 <Belugas> let's all scrap trunk!! scrap code!!! 20:05:59 <Belugas> youhou!! 20:06:04 <eekee> wheeeeeeee! 20:06:42 <yorick> hmm...quite much, now I think about it 20:07:01 <yorick> you're wasting 100kb for multiplayer you might not even want to use 20:07:04 <eekee> yorick: 0.1% 20:07:33 <Belugas> hre, and there and why not even ther?? then, it's bloated every where!!! 20:07:34 <Belugas> trolls 20:07:35 <eekee> yorick: dude, please stop encouraging pain for fractions of a percent 20:08:03 <yorick> ok, then go at convincing that whale next door 20:08:09 <eekee> :) 20:08:21 <yorick> the one that tries to believe he can rhyme 20:11:05 <Belugas> you know what the whale is going to do next? 20:11:12 <eekee> bloat is like ecology. Worry produces a lot of ascetiscism and very little real gain 20:11:32 <yorick> Belugas: whales have no feet 20:12:11 *** yorick was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [no, but they can click a mouse!] 20:12:20 <eekee> XD;; 20:12:21 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:12:43 <yorick> :) 20:17:37 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:39 *** Hendikins [~wolfoxout@202.81.69.132] has quit [Quit: Any quit message, no matter how short, is a smart arse comment to those left behind] 20:18:17 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-82-122.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:18:58 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 20:25:38 <Belugas> heheh just had a "bug" report at work 20:26:08 <Belugas> the Maestro card of my customer has beeen refused 20:26:37 <Belugas> the Maestro card of my customer has beeen refused 20:26:49 <Belugas> it is a debit, not a credit card 20:27:05 <Belugas> so use it as such! 20:27:19 <yorick> wtf, I'm running tto in dosbox, and the cursor escapes the dosbox window :) 20:33:25 <yorick> ooh! 20:33:38 <yorick> foundopenttdcrashonloadingttosavegame! 20:33:58 <glx> not surprising, it's not supported 20:34:18 <ccfreak2k> Congratulations, you found a feature! 20:34:30 <yorick> glx, yes, but should it assert? 20:34:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1EDD4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:06 <glx> better assert than crash later doing something else 20:35:19 <yorick> Assertion failed! 20:35:19 <yorick> File src/oldpool/h Line: 125 20:35:19 <yorick> Expression: index < this->GetSize() 20:35:50 <yorick> 0.6 just crashes 20:35:53 <yorick> trunk asserts 20:36:05 <glx> asserts are disabled for releases 20:36:18 <yorick> that could help 20:36:36 <yorick> can it not say "incompatible savegame"? 20:37:09 * Ammler would like to see language files like grfs, just away from trunk. 20:37:18 <yorick> ah, second failure: Station: failed loading savegame: too many Station 20:37:28 <yorick> I built 3 stations :) 20:37:50 <Ammler> it would make update so much faster... 20:37:52 <glx> openttd doesn't know TTO format 20:38:38 <yorick> does it know ttd format? 20:38:43 <yorick> and does ttd know tto format? 20:39:09 <eekee> OTTD used to load TTD format, if I remember right 20:40:17 <glx> and it still loads it 20:49:24 <ccfreak2k> "TTO save games not supported" would probably be the best way to handle it. 20:49:32 <ccfreak2k> Assuming TTO saved games are different from TTD. 20:52:19 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet] 20:52:20 <Belugas> ho yeah... a red box popup!! 20:53:23 *** curson [~curzon@p2224-ipbf215funabasi.chiba.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.] 20:54:38 * Belugas goes home 20:54:40 <Belugas> bye bye 20:54:57 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: the problem is to get to know the difference 20:58:23 *** Zeal [~Ping@217-211-211-179-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 20:58:29 *** Zealotus [~Ping@217-211-211-179-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:53 *** Osai^Kendo`off is now known as Osai 20:59:48 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r13648 /trunk/src/tgp.cpp: -Cleanup (r5303): Amplitudes should be amplitudes and not amplitudes/16. 21:56:15 *** jni_ [~geetee@cs181040004.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:00:07 *** tokar [~tokar@othala.n7mm.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:05 <dih> hello 22:09:32 *** Zorni [zorn@e177231116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 22:10:03 <Eddi|zuHause> ... that was a very random line do throw in the middle of an idle time ... 22:11:23 <Prof_Frink> triumvirate. 22:16:09 <Touqen> trigeminal neuralgia 22:16:53 *** Zorn [zorn@e177235110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:17:47 *** Zorni [zorn@e177231116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:24:21 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B789B8.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:38:36 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 22:58:35 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00af11.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:09 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1EDD4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:21:26 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 23:22:11 *** Osai is now known as Osai`off 23:22:54 *** Touqen [~stephen@c-98-216-253-146.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:28:12 *** Farden [~jk3farden@ram94-7-82-232-189-236.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )] 23:31:18 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:31:22 *** Touqen [~stephen@c-98-216-253-146.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:33:43 *** demon_ [DEMON@modemcable192.177-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 23:35:38 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F1675.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"] 23:58:59 *** demon_ [DEMON@modemcable192.177-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit []