Log for #openttd on 17th October 2008:
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10:36:51  <ln> thanks to Spotify, np: "The Best of Leonard Nimoy & William Shatner"
10:39:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure that violates half a dozen channel rules
10:47:59  <ln> people at the office are suffering
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11:18:38  <roboboy> hello
11:19:22  <Alberth> hello
11:20:26  <ln>      hello
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11:22:44  <roboboy> !seen orudge
11:24:45  <dih> roboboy: @seen?
11:24:55  <roboboy> ah
11:25:02  <roboboy> @seen orudge
11:25:03  <DorpsGek> roboboy: orudge was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 11 hours, 17 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <orudge> Hello all
11:25:30  <roboboy> I can not get my client to join #tycoon
11:25:48  <roboboy> any devs around that understand the installer?
11:26:02  <dih> what's the problem
11:26:11  <dih> and why do you need an installer?
11:26:20  <dih> why dont you get a proper client?
11:27:08  <roboboy> I mean the openttd installer
11:27:22  <roboboy> ignore my IRC problem
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11:38:34  <dih> why are you using the openttd installer?
11:38:38  <dih> why not get a zip?
11:39:36  <dih> would a online scn editor not be a nice idea?
11:39:43  <dih> could it be made mp safe?
11:39:50  <dih> add the required network commands
11:39:59  <SpComb> heh
11:40:14  <roboboy> are any of the devs that understand the windows installer code online?
11:40:47  <roboboy> I want to make sure I understand something
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11:41:46  <Alberth> Isn't it easier to try it? It will break all by itself when you got it wrong
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11:49:24  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... the pathfinder penalties are somehow wrong
11:49:45  <Eddi|zuHause> it should be free track < platform < reserved track < reserved platform
11:50:03  <Eddi|zuHause> currently, it prefers a reserved track over a free platform
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11:55:33  <dih> Eddi|zuHause: hihi
11:55:53  <dih> SpComb: do you not have a map-array reader in python
11:56:00  <dih> so people can scroll a save game?
11:56:20  <dih> or was that just a giant screenshot one could scroll
11:57:10  <SpComb> dih: no, I didn't implement rendering and whatnot in python, it was just PNG screenshots
11:57:35  <dih> shame
11:57:49  <dih> else you could have gone as far as making an scn editor online :-D
11:57:55  <dih> with python
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12:01:38  <SpComb> well, you could figure out the co-ordinates of objects and then interact with them
12:02:18  <SpComb> i.e. it wouldn't be entirely impossible to implement, say, track-laying, if you did the cursor client-side
12:02:47  <SpComb> but the code isn't very good in terms of what it looks like on the OpenTTD side of things
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12:06:28  <dih> SpComb: no tracks - just makeing the landscape and placing towns and industries
12:07:06  <dih> oh
12:07:19  <dih> and loading grfs would be a huge impossible i guess :-D
12:07:26  <dih> forget it :-P
12:08:23  <Ammler> SpComb: is there any progress for the grf downloader?
12:14:53  <SpComb> no
12:15:26  <SpComb> I got stuck at implementing the client portion, as part of the OpenTTD network code
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12:19:55  <dih> <- getting closer :-)
12:21:22  <blathijs> Why are there so much bugs for the current stable release?
12:23:40  <Alberth> blathijs: people use the software in unexpected ways :P
12:30:10  <dih> yeah - all those bloody users
12:30:29  <dih> ubuntu is even worse with users - hence they have empoyed developers to fix the bugs :-D
12:31:19  <planetmaker> [14:15]	<SpComb>	I got stuck at implementing the client portion, as part of the OpenTTD network code <--- a shame :(
12:31:30  <planetmaker> I was really putting hope in you :)
12:31:43  <SpComb> :(
12:32:11  <SpComb> the curl/HTTP-based thing works, but it blocks the whole OpenTTD GUI when it's running
12:32:38  <SpComb> but integrating new functionality with old code is just... difficult
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12:39:12  <Ammler> SpComb: BitTorrent would be nice for the GRFRepo :-)
12:39:29  <Ammler> as some servers don't have much upload speed.
12:39:57  <FauxFaux> Metalink.
12:40:10  <Ammler> so there would be no need for a central server
12:40:50  <SpComb> Ammler: if someone agrees to rewrite OpenTTD's network code...
12:41:11  <Ammler> I agree :P
12:41:20  <SpComb> downloading the GRFs from the OpenTTD server itself isn't an impossibility, and it's kind of the same
12:41:35  <Ammler> no
12:41:53  <Ammler> the server would then need to upload for evey cleint
12:42:08  <SpComb> but the network code needs some modifications to support non-game-client connections
12:42:24  <Ammler> so the server has to upload the map and the grfs, that could produce quite much traffic.
12:42:56  <SpComb> depends on how many GRFs and unique clients the server has
12:43:08  <SpComb> GRFs with the same md5sum won't be downloaded twice
12:43:53  <Ammler> just think about 1. joins
12:44:16  <Ammler> wwottdgd would be a good example
12:44:26  <SpComb> first joins?
12:44:34  <Ammler> many of the clients don't have the grfs.
12:44:55  <Ammler> so they would need to download the map and the grfs all from same server, around 20MB
12:45:40  <Ammler> if 10 clients joins at same time, that could produce "laggs".
12:46:12  <SpComb> depends on the server, I guess, but the clients have got to download that 20MB from somewhere
12:46:21  <SpComb> and there's no need to pause the game while downloading NewGRFs
12:47:05  <SpComb> anyways, if I ever manage to work out the client code, I'll probably write the server separately in python before touching the OpenTTD server code
12:47:26  <Ammler> and if you don't have a central repo, you do not have to care about licenses
12:47:40  <Ammler> that would be up to the server admin.
12:48:06  <SpComb> hmm?
12:48:51  <FauxFaux> Ammler: Mmm, not so, I believe in many countries providing the information to get unredistributable files is illegal.
12:49:36  <Ammler> ?
12:49:52  <planetmaker> <-- concerning this thread: does my memory serve me well that backward driving (shunting) is already supported by the code, but only missing in (nearly) all newgrf?
12:50:19  <petern> Wrong.
12:50:45  <petern> Backwards driving does not happen, it is merely a graphical hack that some NewGRFs implement.
12:51:00  <SpComb> ngeative velocity
12:51:02  <petern> If it was proper backwards driving, it wouldn't require NewGRF support at all.
12:51:35  <planetmaker> hm... ok. But a grf should be able to specify whether a train can drive backward.
12:51:45  <Ammler> FauxFaux: it does not just provide information, you do also download there.
12:51:45  <petern> There's no such facility.
12:52:05  <planetmaker> ok :) A pity, wouldn't you like it? :D
12:52:07  <Eddi|zuHause> german law says that copying a file is license-free if the process is an integral part of using it
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12:53:07  <Eddi|zuHause> which i think would cover automatically downloading grfs, as long as they are not accessible from outside that game
12:53:57  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: well, if you take them from "cache", you can use them outside
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12:54:23  <Eddi|zuHause> but extracting from cache is illegal then ;)
12:54:24  <Ammler> but that would be the same as now with our grfpack
12:54:43  <Ammler> there are people using it in SP, which is also illeagal
12:55:15  <planetmaker> thanks for clarification, petern :)
12:55:25  <Eddi|zuHause> downloading the grf pack is a completely different situationnn
12:55:29  <Eddi|zuHause> -nn
12:55:56  <Ammler> why?
12:55:58  <Sacro> Ammler: cite why it is illegal
12:56:29  <Eddi|zuHause> because downloading it is not an integral part of a process of using it
12:56:30  <Ammler> some of the authors allow including of the GRFs only for MP usage.
12:56:52  <Eddi|zuHause> which means that part of the law does not apply
12:57:43  <Ammler> Sacro: because you need to read the docs for SP mode.
12:58:00  <Eddi|zuHause> that paragraph of the german law covers situations like copying a video from hard disk to memory, in order to play it
12:58:36  <Sacro> Ammler: is the licence actually enforcible though?
12:58:38  <Ammler> well, german law isn't that representative, is it?
12:59:04  <Ammler> isn't it too restrictive?
12:59:13  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i can't speak of other countries' laws :p
12:59:42  <Ammler> if it is in germany allowed, it is allowed everywhere, I guess :-)
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13:00:06  <Ammler> Sacro: don't get that
13:00:14  <Eddi|zuHause> of course copyright law is restrictive. that's what licenses are for, loosening restrictions of copyright
13:00:52  <Sacro> Ammler: depends what it states
13:01:02  <Eddi|zuHause> copyright is like the lowest comon denominator of distributionnnn
13:01:04  <Sacro> it might have the wonderful ability to nullify itself
13:01:12  <Eddi|zuHause> fuck this keyboard...
13:01:34  <Ammler> Sacro: what _it_
13:01:47  <Sacro> Ammler: the licence
13:03:04  <Ammler> Sacro: of?
13:03:10  <roboboy> gnight
13:03:19  <Eddi|zuHause> copyright law is about what you can do with other people's work, without asking them for permission
13:03:29  <Ammler> the GRFpack itself has no license
13:03:49  <Eddi|zuHause> licenses can give additional permissions
13:03:52  <planetmaker> Ammler: not quite true IMO
13:04:15  <planetmaker> the license is: don't distribute and take individual licenses of the authors.
13:04:15  <Ammler> well, it has the license of the most restrictive GRF
13:04:22  <roboboy> this is interesting and I do not want to go to bed now
13:04:27  <Ammler> which doesn't allow playing SP :-)
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13:04:34  <planetmaker> good morning roboboy :P
13:04:57  <roboboy> which is that one?
13:05:09  <Ammler> those from Pikka, i.e.
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13:06:42  <Ammler> but the point is, I am sure, there are people using the pack to play SP too.
13:07:31  <Ammler> and nobody can control that, so a autodownloader for MP games does also not need to control that., imo.
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13:09:44  <Ammler> (1. sentence in our readme, btw.)
13:09:56  <roboboy> gnight if you are done talking on the subject
13:10:05  <Ammler> night, roboboy
13:10:49  <planetmaker> night :)
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13:20:50  <Eddi|zuHause> no, we're not :p
13:24:00  <ln> it's @600 o'clock.
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13:50:17  <dih> ln: congrats on using internet time
13:50:20  <dih> beats
13:50:28  <dih> or whatever you wanna call it :-P
13:51:12  <Ammler> Biel time :P
13:51:36  <dih> :-)
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13:54:20  <ln> wrote support for it today
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13:59:10  <Eddi|zuHause>
13:59:33  <Eddi|zuHause> not only the americans have no clue :p
14:06:48  <planetmaker> Evil you, Eddi|zuHause :) I now have to watch images :P <- not bad either :P
14:08:02  <glx> nice one
14:08:26  <Eddi|zuHause> old :p
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14:09:00  <A_Person> Good one
14:10:19  <planetmaker> <-- probably also old, but even more funny IMO. And now I'll stop posting stupid links :P
14:10:21  <A_Person> Those japanese fast trains have some badass styling too
14:16:30  <Ammler> @seen Yorick
14:16:30  <DorpsGek> Ammler: Yorick was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 0 hours, 36 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <yorick> yes, it only works from gui
14:16:58  * A_Person conciders making a 2048 map by hand
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14:17:59  <Alberth> One byte at a time :P
14:19:18  <A_Person> I'm thinking varying elevattion zones might be interesting, especially with subarctic
14:19:57  <A_Person> And I want to find out what it costs o build a ralway from one corner t the opposite
14:21:07  <Eddi|zuHause> that's easy, open second viewport at one end, scroll to other end, select autorail, hold shift, and drag from one viewport to the other :p
14:21:23  <A_Person> Hehe, well, that'll work on a flat map
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14:21:47  <A_Person> and doesn't include the cost of trains
14:22:19  <A_Person> Actually it makes me wonder if it would actually be profitable to run the trains bakc the whole way
14:24:31  <Eddi|zuHause> if you run them back empty, probably not
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14:25:08  <A_Person> but then a train hauling cargo both ways would run half empty anyway
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14:31:34  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but you need hardly any pulling power for the empty wagons, so you can make trains twice as long
14:32:07  <A_Person> Hmm, I never thought of that
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14:32:33  <A_Person> The stats do describe the cars as something like 1/3 of the combined weight tho
14:32:45  <A_Person> or 1/4 maybe, it was yesterday, I forgot
14:33:28  <A_Person> Guess I'll just have to do some proper sandboxing to figure it all out
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15:28:51  <Li-On> Conspiracy theory!
15:28:53  <Li-On> Hahaha, nice one:
15:28:56  <Li-On>
15:29:04  <Li-On> from now on only commit without comment, please
15:30:00  <A_Person> Hmm, so many unfamiliar words
15:31:36  <FauxFaux> German? They're probably banal plesantries. *runs*
15:31:49  <A_Person> Hah, nope
15:32:22  <Li-On> r14475 is a secrect feature, because it has the comment 'no comment'.
15:32:23  <Li-On> I really like this theory.
15:32:49  <A_Person> Heh
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15:34:54  <A_Person> Blah, I want to use huge station spread but the wiki tells spooky stories about that combined with YAPF
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15:37:08  <petern> Untrue stories.
15:37:13  <A_Person> Really?
15:37:38  <A_Person> Cause I was trying to decide which option to ditch
15:38:13  <A_Person>
15:38:27  <A_Person> " Be careful if not using the YAPF pathfinding though: The game will slow and then become unstable when you set this to a value higher than the default of 12."
15:38:36  <A_Person> wait
15:38:37  <A_Person> no
15:38:41  <A_Person> I'm stupid
15:39:04  <A_Person> English has outsmarted me yet again
15:39:05  <petern> That statement is also bollocks.
15:39:16  <glx> it was true a long time ago IIRC
15:39:24  <A_Person> It claims the opposite than I thought it did
15:39:34  <fonso> Doesn't it do a square search for station tiles somewhere?
15:39:38  <A_Person> I think it actually says the huge stations work better, not worse with YAPF
15:39:52  <fonso> The effort for that would grow quadratically with station spread.
15:40:07  <petern> The problem originally was graphical, and totally unrelated to pathfinding.
15:40:28  <A_Person> Guess I'll have to test and see, heh
15:40:43  <A_Person> YAPF+max spread
15:41:15  <A_Person> I misread it anyway, so my panic was unnecessary
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15:41:56  <A_Person> It could still be true for the old pathfinders, no?
15:42:24  <glx> it never was pathfinding related
15:42:34  <A_Person> good
15:42:57  <glx> wiki is just wrong
15:43:41  <A_Person> the game itself still has a warning that "High setting slows game" in 063
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15:44:33  <glx> yes and the warning in the wiki should be the same
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15:45:45  <A_Person> Does make me wonder if that specific processing load can be optimised more
15:46:11  <glx> but IIRC this "problem" doesn't exist now
15:46:25  <A_Person> k
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16:00:03  <Belugas> ho boy... and he's setting up a server... ->
16:00:10  <Belugas> ** plunk **
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16:01:18  <A_Person> Note to self: add to wiki the specific elevation at which sub-arctic elevation-specific differences appear
16:05:04  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean the snow line? that can be adjusted
16:05:19  <A_Person> Really?
16:05:27  * A_Person regenerates an arctic map
16:06:02  <A_Person> Don't see it in editor
16:06:20  <glx> it's in the generator window
16:06:43  <A_Person> ah yes
16:07:25  <A_Person> so it's displayed by one of the partially snowy tiles
16:07:34  <A_Person> grah
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16:33:29  <A_Person> land area information and the generator's snowline onset don't seem to match very well
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16:36:51  * A_Person tries inventing a mnemonic
16:37:43  <A_Person> the border at which one puts desert in editor is one tile smaller than the land area information for the desert area, smae for snowline
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16:43:03  * A_Person curses at discrete math, which he despises
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16:46:19  <A_Person> 0-2046 should be 2047 tiles, making 1023 the middle point
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16:52:02  <Belugas> 2046?
16:52:55  <Sacro> Belugas: ohhai
16:53:07  <Rubidium> 2047 is MP_VOID so he can't see it
16:53:21  <Belugas> ohhai?  ho... hi!
16:53:28  <Belugas> right :)
16:53:29  <Sacro> bon soir!
16:53:43  <Belugas> bon apres-midi, tu veux dire :)
16:54:44  <Belugas> ben.. en tout ca, pour moi :S
16:54:48  <Belugas> +s
16:55:09  * Sacro thinks
16:55:19  <Sacro> je suis mal a la err... throat
16:57:36  <Belugas> "j'ai mal a la gorge"
16:57:58  <glx> auxilliary verbs are fun ;)
16:58:02  * Belugas checks
16:58:27  <Belugas> and english has somehow eluded the question :)
16:58:40  <Belugas> "my throat hurts"
16:58:44  <Belugas> i think...
16:58:52  <glx> yeah like male/female words :)
16:59:50  <glx> s/words/nouns/
17:02:55  <Eddi|zuHause> if in doubt, it's the opposite of what you think :p
17:03:44  *** Kommer [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:03:52  <Eddi|zuHause> err... has arrow-key-scrolling stopped working?
17:04:48  *** Xerres [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:05:08  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: works for me in HEAD++ ;)
17:05:39  <Eddi|zuHause> weird...
17:06:56  *** Xerres [] has joined #openttd
17:07:21  <Belugas> ->  head++ hehe
17:07:48  <frosch123> a lot stuff works in headM
17:10:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i use cargodest+timetable+daylength+some small stuff
17:11:49  <A_Person> odd nr of tiles per side is good anyway, that way the axis of the map is on a tile, instead of between
17:14:25  <Eddi|zuHause> how is that a) relevant, and b) better?
17:14:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14479 /trunk/ (config.lib src/gfx.cpp): -Add: initial (optional) support for handling bidirectional scripts and connecting Arabic characters.
17:15:09  <A_Person> I'm a symmetry freak
17:15:17  <A_Person> it matches with the 3*3 city grid
17:15:54  <A_Person> actually, any city is centered on a road tile
17:16:13  <A_Person> a city in the middle of the map has a road tile in the middle of the map
17:16:45  <Eddi|zuHause> if you say so...
17:16:58  <A_Person> with an even number of tiles, that isn't the case
17:21:48  *** giddorah [] has joined #openttd
17:22:00  <giddorah> Hey... I've got a problem with Cargodest... Using windows
17:22:27  <giddorah> Downloaded the windows binary
17:22:31  <giddorah> Unzipped to a folder
17:22:36  <giddorah> Copied data from other install
17:22:45  <giddorah> Started... It starts perfectly
17:22:52  <giddorah> Fiddle around with difficulty settings
17:22:56  <giddorah> Start a new game
17:23:00  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
17:23:08  <giddorah> And... I don't get any of the fancy stuff from the screenshots on the Wiki :(
17:23:10  <Wolf01> not hello
17:23:40  <Belugas> not bonjour
17:23:42  <A_Person> yes hello!
17:23:52  <Eddi|zuHause> giddorah: you need to go to the advanced settings->economy section and enable the destinations
17:24:54  <giddorah> Instead of anywhere I should have "chosen destinations"?
17:25:46  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
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17:26:31  <giddorah> Sweet! And that's everything I have to do? Now passengers are gonna start taking connecting trains to get to their final destinations?
17:27:28  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
17:27:48  <giddorah> Awesome :) Thanks :) I knew it was something I had missed
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17:28:22  <Wolf01> what does change when I disable inflation on year 2165?
17:28:39  <Rubidium> not much
17:29:00  <Rubidium> depending on when you started: absolutely nothing or inflation stops
17:31:03  <Wolf01> so the base cost multiplier is not reset to 1, but it only stops to sum it another 0.x at month?
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17:32:48  <Rubidium> exactly
17:32:59  <Rubidium> inflation only happens for 170 years though
17:33:03  <Wolf01> I should have disabled it a thousand ages before... the running cost of trains is absurdly high
17:33:40  <A_Person> Hmm, this makes me wonder what the total multiplier by the end of the 170 years would be
17:33:51  <Wolf01> 170?
17:34:01  <Rubidium> 2090-1920
17:34:09  <Wolf01> oh yes
17:34:16  <A_Person> oh, not couted from the year you start?
17:35:13  <Rubidium> we don't use cout
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17:35:22  <A_Person> counted*
17:35:39  <Rubidium> who said it isn't counted from the year you start?
17:35:43  <A_Person> I should add that to the wiki if it's only those years, not a floating count
17:36:06  <Wolf01> it's 170 years since you start
17:36:25  <Rubidium> unless you cheat your way into the future or back in time
17:36:27  <A_Person> nobody, the wiki where I saw the limited duration of inflation occurring didn't specify a starting year for those years
17:36:44  <A_Person> mentioned, not occurring
17:36:54  <A_Person> glah
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17:37:17  <Rubidium> well... IMO it's sane to assume that other people assume it's from the time where you start, right?
17:37:52  <A_Person> I did, so I think it's reasonable to assume
17:38:09  <A_Person>  <@Rubidium> 2090-1920
17:38:14  <A_Person> but what does that mean
17:38:48  <glx> 170
17:39:01  <Rubidium> A_Person: pass that through a calculator type of device/tool and then interpret what Wolf01 asked the line before that reply of me
17:39:14  <A_Person> it would seem like rubidium claimed it startw and ends with those years, not the year on estarts+170
17:39:40  <A_Person> Crap I can't type
17:42:07  <Swallow> Let me repeat the question I asked Wednesday: Does my 'improved breakdowns' patch have any chance of getting into trunk?
17:43:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14480 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): -Add: warning when trying to use a right-to-left language without support for it in OpenTTD.
17:45:06  <A_Person> I should figure out what the game interprets as aplphabetical order
17:47:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r14481 /trunk/src/lang/ (korean.txt unfinished/latvian.txt unfinished/persian.txt):
17:47:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-10-17 17:47:40
17:47:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 4 changed by leejaeuk5 (4)
17:47:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 10 fixed by v3rb0 (10)
17:47:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: persian - 55 fixed by ali sattari (55)
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17:49:17  <A_Person> ? is unrecognized by ottd
17:49:23  <A_Person> and mIRC...
17:57:06  <Sacro> ?
17:57:14  <Sacro> what is "?"
17:57:22  <A_Person> the reverse of ^
17:57:49  <Sacro> eh?
17:57:54  <Belugas> liar! it's 6, the reverse of ^
17:57:56  <Sacro> well your utf-8 fails
17:58:23  <A_Person> Funny thing is that mIRC's input box displays symbols like that, also for the eur symbol, but doesn't in the display field
17:58:50  * A_Person looks at Belugas oddly
18:02:20  <petern> ^ v < >
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18:02:37  <frosch123> maybe ˇ
18:03:08  <Belugas> !1 @2 #3  %5 ^6 ...
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18:03:10  <Belugas> prrrrrrrrrrrrrt
18:03:40  <A_Person> ah, my ^ is on the À key
18:03:40  <A_Person> ;P
18:03:44  <glx> first is shift ?
18:04:11  <glx> A_Person: you have a square key?
18:04:18  <frosch123> glx: Belugas is not SmatZ :)
18:04:26  <A_Person> that's not a square
18:04:37  <glx> it is a square
18:04:42  <A_Person>
18:04:51  <A_Person> altgr À
18:05:08  <glx> configure your client to send utf8
18:05:24  <FR^2> or iso-utf-hybrid
18:05:33  *** Xerres [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:05:35  <A_Person> dunno where that is
18:06:12  <A_Person> it has utf-8 selected
18:06:54  *** Xerres [] has joined #openttd
18:07:09  <glx> À
18:07:16  <A_Person> yes, that
18:07:30  <A_Person> a+a diatric thingy
18:08:16  <glx> and the MS page you linked to doesn't work in firefox
18:08:22  <A_Person> heh
18:08:26  <A_Person> works for Opera
18:08:37  <glx> works in IE too
18:08:53  * A_Person luv Opera
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18:10:24  <frosch123> the "£$€" line is funny
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18:10:40  <A_Person> Wow, mIRC is sure weird
18:10:51  <A_Person> I can see the € sign from frosch123 just fine :D
18:10:58  <Sacro> yeah
18:11:02  <Sacro> cos euro isn't utf8
18:11:13  * Sacro checks wikipÊdia
18:11:17  <A_Person> When I send, it displays as black square
18:11:26  <frosch123> for me too
18:11:33  <frosch123> i.e. what you send
18:12:29  <frosch123> why do you have a "œ" on your keyboard?
18:12:38  <A_Person> It's a cool symbol!
18:12:41  <A_Person> I never use it tho
18:12:58  <Sacro> }][
18:13:05  <Sacro> œŸ
18:13:11  <Sacro> ¹²³
18:13:13  <Sacro> ooh, nice
18:13:15  <A_Person> You might ask why we have but not dollar
18:13:28  <A_Person> I don't have the latter 4 you posted
18:13:35  <A_Person> Well, keyboard
18:13:43  <A_Person> They be nice stuff
18:13:57  <frosch123> Sacro: ⅛⅜⅝⅞ even sillier symbols
18:14:28  <Sacro> º
18:14:55  <Progman> . o O (and I read "Cryptography_(Theory)"
18:15:24  <A_Person> Heh, wha?
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18:16:24  <A_Person>
18:17:34  * A_Person gets a moment of WTF, two eur signs on kb?
18:17:37  <A_Person> €
18:18:50  <bow^znc> I wonder why any broken/corrupt utf sequences always seem to be interpreted as those truly bizarre burmese glyphs, in gnome + pidgin heh
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18:25:30  <frosch123> ⢎⡱⢞⠕⢞⣭⢞⠢⡇⢹⠁⢹⠁⣏⠆
18:25:40  <frosch123> how useful...
18:25:47  <A_Person> lots of boxes!
18:25:47  <Sacro> :o
18:25:50  <Sacro> frosch123: impressive
18:25:58  <Sacro> though not strictly braille
18:26:18  <frosch123> I always thought it was a braille page, but in fact it is a binary page...
18:26:28  <A_Person> page?
18:26:34  <frosch123> 40
18:26:44  <frosch123> 0x2800 - 0x28FF
18:26:58  <A_Person> page of a book you mean?
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18:27:19  <frosch123> unicode page
18:27:27  <A_Person> k
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18:56:34  <ln> B       n
18:56:35  <ln>   j   r   i
18:56:35  <ln>     a  	    !
18:56:50  <petern> el_ln fails it
18:57:15  <ln> i wonder wtf happened, there was no tab from where i copied it.
18:57:37  <Sacro> ln: impressive
18:57:45  <Sacro> but it won't highlight him
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18:58:05  <ln> Sacro: thank you.  the nobel prize can be sent me by mail.
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19:17:41  <Belugas> gaaaaa... my ears!
19:17:55  <Belugas> Chocky attacked again!
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19:57:02  <A_Person> Anyone know why the shortcut for double sized display doesn't work anymore?
19:59:47  <glx> because it was windows only and the blitters have been rewritten
20:00:06  <A_Person> ah
20:00:09  <A_Person> pity
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20:02:12  <Bjarni> ln: highlighting actually works
20:02:16  <Bjarni> if used correctly
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20:54:13  <Wolf01> 'night
20:54:17  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
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20:55:35  <ln> Bjarni: how much of William Shatner have you been listening to today?
20:58:02  <ben_goodger> "I have here the only working phaser ever built. It was fired only once, to keep William Shatner from making another album." ~ Comic Book Guy
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21:18:19  <Bjarni> <ln> Bjarni: how much of William Shatner have you been listening to today? <--- I didn't even think about him at all
21:18:57  <Bjarni> I spent time on uni stuff most of the day
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21:24:53  <ln> we wants babyottd back
21:26:27  *** babyottd [] has joined #openttd
21:26:41  <Bjarni> !words
21:26:41  <babyottd> I know 1752 words (7997 contexts, 4.56 per word), 1363 lines.
21:27:04  <ln> babyottd: how are you today, sir?
21:27:07  <Bjarni> William Shatner wants babyottd back?
21:27:18  <babyottd> remove this, isn't bank with them back together again
21:27:19  <Bjarni> ...
21:27:36  <Bjarni> I misread we as he :(
21:27:49  <Bjarni> maybe I should go to bed
21:27:54  <Bjarni> which means:
21:28:00  <Bjarni> IRC ALL NIGHT!!!
21:28:01  <babyottd> curplayer, which is way too funny
21:28:03  <babyottd> the night indeed
21:28:28  <Nite_Owl>  later Bjarni
21:28:32  <babyottd> Nite_Owl : me too
21:30:10  <Bjarni> what's curplayer?
21:30:57  <Nite_Owl> Oops - my bad - I misread that
21:31:03  <Bjarni> :D
21:31:06  <babyottd> qdb'd hate that
21:31:23  <Bjarni> maybe we should use a bigger font xD
21:31:29  <babyottd> it use the variable or does
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21:31:45  <Bjarni> and somehow I think somebody is controlling babyottd
21:31:53  <babyottd> i think somebody added that line on purpose
21:32:04  <Bjarni> ...
21:32:18  <Bjarni> babyottd: how many fingers do I hold up right now?
21:32:27  <babyottd> d : how many fingers do i hold up right now ?
21:32:31  <Sacro> babyottd: epic
21:32:33  <babyottd> an epic game
21:32:37  <Sacro> babyottd: boobs
21:32:49  <Bjarni> crazy Sacro
21:32:53  <babyottd> Bjarni your a goner : p
21:32:58  <Sacro> Bjarni: he said "epic boobs" the other day
21:32:59  <Bjarni> o_O
21:33:02  <Sacro> a goner eh
21:33:11  <Sacro> i love blowing them up, so defenceless
21:33:12  <babyottd> control you have a savings account at icesave ?
21:33:15  <Bjarni> what is he trying to do???
21:33:36  <Brianetta> Bjarni: I'm the only one who could "control" the bot (if I figured it out) and I'm not.
21:33:36  <babyottd> i could, but Brianetta interrupted, )
21:33:56  *** TinoM [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
21:33:58  <Brianetta> Sacro's playing X
21:33:58  <babyottd> that's working on it
21:34:04  <Sacro> Brianetta: am I?
21:34:12  <Sacro> oh, I have in the past
21:34:16  <Sacro> not recently though
21:34:23  <Bjarni> so babyottd is controlling babyottd?
21:34:23  <Brianetta> Why else would you be plowing up defenceless goners?
21:34:31  *** Xerres [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:34:35  <Bjarni> read back
21:34:36  <Brianetta> Bjarni: He's running autonomously, yes
21:34:51  <Brianetta> plowing?  I meant blowing
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21:34:58  <Bjarni> babyottd called me a goner
21:35:06  <babyottd> one called schauble ? who votes for kban
21:35:10  <Sacro> Brianetta: blowing works, when in a T1 :p
21:35:14  <Sacro> *plowing
21:35:14  <babyottd> it likes when i lol
21:36:04  <Brianetta> oh so he did (:
21:36:05  <babyottd> p : did he get that from your memory !
21:36:25  <Bjarni> what does "p :" mean?
21:36:28  <babyottd> it i mean tpm
21:36:36  *** Xerres [] has joined #openttd
21:36:39  <Sacro> Bjarni: I think he's attempting :p
21:36:45  <Bjarni> what does "d :" mean?
21:37:16  <Brianetta> D:
21:37:20  <Brianetta> in lower case
21:37:22  <Brianetta> and spaced
21:37:24  <Sacro> hmm, why do i see F0F0F0 as nearer white than FFFFFF
21:37:30  *** d-mike [] has quit []
21:37:39  <planetmaker> is here any dev who'd like to have a look at why some industries receive goods at our public server?
21:37:47  <babyottd> a funny look cause im laughing so much : p
21:38:46  <planetmaker> Using PBI, we have there a range of industries with no drop station nearby, but they're happily producing goods...
21:39:08  <Sacro> planetmaker: i've had that bug too
21:39:14  <Sacro> Belugas took a look iirc
21:39:20  <planetmaker> oh, right?
21:39:33  <Sacro> i had a 375T a month factory
21:39:35  <Sacro> with no input
21:39:35  <planetmaker> we're using r14469.
21:39:41  <Sacro> this was 063
21:39:43  <planetmaker> yeah, something like that.
21:39:47  <babyottd> germany was divided into two separ
21:39:52  <planetmaker> with quite a lot of industries.
21:39:58  <babyottd> a lot of thought indeed : p
21:40:45  <planetmaker> but good to know that it's not just me and a few other people who are just too stupid to work with them :)
21:40:47  <Bjarni> babyottd: what do you think about the American election?
21:40:49  <planetmaker> thx, Sacro
21:42:29  <Sacro> planetmaker: could be sometimes to do with similar names
21:42:34  <babyottd> could siSacroece at most
21:42:59  <planetmaker> hm... I'll play around with it a bit :)
21:44:01  <ln> i wonder what that siSacroece is... some kind of bug? didn't he say "siBjarniece" the other day?
21:44:07  <babyottd> i wonder what that silnece is
21:44:40  <Bjarni> silnece is when nobody is around
21:44:42  * Brianetta has no idea
21:44:50  <Sacro> Bjarni: no, that's silence
21:45:10  <ln> 00:44 <babyottd> that's right, ln is a country located in southwestern europe on the first pyborg babytom ever spoke
21:45:51  <Bjarni> wow silnece is an actual word o_O
21:45:56  <babyottd> it is an actual word Bjarni
21:47:04  <Brianetta> !wow si#nickece is an actual word o_O
21:47:04  <Brianetta> ![21:45:31] <babyottd> > #openttd> it is an actual word Bjarni
21:47:17  <Bjarni> hmm
21:47:21  <Bjarni> then again maybe not
21:47:26  <Brianetta> it's replacing ln with #nick
21:47:26  <babyottd> to agree with Brianetta
21:47:48  <Bjarni> looks like google caught a whole lot of mistyped "silence" :P
21:47:52  <babyottd> a lot of industries
21:47:55  <Brianetta> ln: You are polluting words contaiing your nick
21:47:57  <Bjarni> 3070 of them
21:48:52  <ln> but, but... what is this si#nickece thing anyway?
21:48:54  <babyottd> anyway ?
21:49:26  <Sacro> ln: s/ln/#nick/
21:50:02  <ln> i figured that much, but why?
21:50:19  <babyottd> chuckle too much laughing to be shortening sentences and reconstruct them oddly : p
21:50:50  <Brianetta> You know, you guys keep saying it, which is what's with it
21:51:06  * Brianetta is deleting it from the word database periodically
21:51:12  <Brianetta> You lot keep putting it right back
21:51:58  <ln> ok, let's just call it the word we do not speak of.
21:52:01  <babyottd> call me mate
21:52:30  <ln> babyottd: you have a phone?
21:52:56  <Eddi|zuHause> openttd: /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTDx/paxdest2/src/road_map.h:23: RoadTileType GetRoadTileType(TileIndex): Assertion `IsTileType(t, MP_ROAD)' failed. <- wtf?
21:52:56  <babyottd> wtf
21:53:26  <Bjarni> yeah
21:53:27  <Bjarni> wtf
21:53:27  <babyottd> wtf
21:53:36  <Bjarni> you are named Johannes?
21:53:57  <Bjarni> I thought you were named Christian :s
21:54:06  <Bjarni> or something like that
21:54:10  <babyottd> not to do something
21:54:26  <Brianetta> Never mind the assert fail, Eddi has a surprising username!
21:55:41  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: you are only supposed to use GetRoadTileType() on tiles with a road
21:55:44  *** Zealotus [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:55:45  *** Zeal [] has joined #openttd
21:55:58  <Bjarni> and for some reason you did this anyway
21:56:12  <Eddi|zuHause> why would i be named Christian?
21:56:35  <Bjarni> I think you once told us
21:56:37  <babyottd> tom once
21:56:48  <Bjarni> but maybe you told that you have a Christian name :)
21:57:04  <ben_goodger> hurrah, conversation
21:57:05  <Eddi|zuHause> why would i tell i'd be named Christian when i am called Johannes?
21:57:09  <babyottd> ben_goodger conversation : d
21:57:09  <babyottd> a christian name : )
21:57:11  <Bjarni> not that it's actual Christian
21:57:18  <babyottd> should be named christian : s
21:57:23  <Bjarni> yeah
21:57:24  <babyottd> yeah
21:57:29  <glx> wow
21:57:30  <Bjarni> he should be named Christian
21:57:49  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: babyottd just decided that you should be named Christian :P
21:57:53  <babyottd> actual christian
21:58:04  <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause: christian name == forename
21:58:04  <glx> babyottd: let's talk about Sacro :)
21:58:05  <Eddi|zuHause> then i must obey to the almighty babyottd
21:58:09  <babyottd> that must be : p
21:58:40  <Eddi|zuHause> ben_goodger: i've never heard it in that context in german
21:58:46  <babyottd> we've had that bug too
21:58:52  <Bjarni> I knew that people were naming bots, but bots naming people?
21:58:56  <Bjarni> that one is new
21:59:23  <Bjarni> <babyottd> we've had that bug too <-- what bug? :D
21:59:34  <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause: no, you wouldn't... it stems from the time of people picking "christian" names from the bible to go with their family names
21:59:36  <Eddi|zuHause> well, colonies deciding not to want to pay taxes was new once also :p
21:59:40  <babyottd> should be named christian : p
21:59:41  <babyottd> once i nearly met tom
21:59:51  <Sacro> who is tom?
21:59:59  <Eddi|zuHause> ben_goodger: it's not like that was not done in germany
21:59:59  <Brianetta> Tom Morton
22:00:00  <babyottd> written by tom morton
22:00:02  <Bjarni> Uncle Tom
22:00:05  <Brianetta> Pyborg's author
22:00:06  <babyottd> by tom morton when the first person to converse with this highly intelligent
22:00:25  <Brianetta> !version
22:00:25  <babyottd> I am a version 1.1.0 PyBorg
22:00:26  *** Brianetta was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
22:00:26  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
22:00:32  <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause: true, I suppose... possibly germans are just better at making nouns than the English (mittwoch wins)
22:00:34  <Bjarni> lol
22:00:34  <babyottd> lol
22:00:41  <Brianetta> Complete failure.
22:00:48  <glx> it replied
22:00:53  <Brianetta> Of course it did
22:00:53  <babyottd> of course, you corrected yourself
22:00:54  <babyottd> : it told me to run again
22:01:17  <glx> my script did too ;)
22:01:20  <Bjarni> !words
22:01:20  <babyottd> I know 2082 words (10003 contexts, 4.80 per word), 1669 lines.
22:01:35  <Brianetta> your script has a bug
22:01:35  <babyottd> inside your intestines
22:01:38  <Eddi|zuHause> ben_goodger: well, but "forename" is the equivalent of the german "Vorname", so that word obviously exists, too
22:01:42  <Bjarni> I wish I could learn new words that fast
22:01:43  <babyottd> a word that is ? d :
22:01:45  <ben_goodger> yes
22:01:46  <babyottd> yes !
22:01:47  <Brianetta> it can't tell a coop retard from me )-:
22:01:49  <babyottd> i wish he'd make a brilliant father
22:02:02  <Bjarni> who?
22:02:38  <ben_goodger> I believe "forename" comes directly from Vorname, while christian name is a less sensible alternative concocted by the religious nut-jobs who ran our country until c. 1600
22:02:45  <Eddi|zuHause> aren't you the host of the whole coop mess? :p
22:03:59  <ben_goodger> hmm... I've just noticed that german has an inflection for the accusative case
22:04:16  <ben_goodger> it's even better structured than I thought
22:04:55  *** Yexo [] has joined #openttd
22:05:03  *** Xerres [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:05:23  <ben_goodger> ho hum
22:05:26  *** Yexo is now known as Guest463
22:05:40  <ben_goodger> what is best --- screenplay, novel, storyboard or comic strip?
22:05:45  <babyottd> the best game ever
22:06:06  *** ben_goodger [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
22:06:26  *** Guest463 is now known as yexo
22:06:32  *** ben_goodger [] has joined #openttd
22:06:35  <ben_goodger> whoops
22:07:13  <Bjarni> the X is not a key to give you x-ray vision in IRC
22:07:17  <babyottd> irc all night !
22:07:32  *** yexo is now known as Yexo
22:08:00  <ben_goodger> Yexo: make your mind up
22:08:04  <Eddi|zuHause> ben_goodger: what do you mean by inflection for the accusative case?
22:08:05  <babyottd> : mean ?
22:08:07  <babyottd> in mind that when ben_goodger sees a word
22:08:10  *** Xerres [] has joined #openttd
22:08:33  <ben_goodger> babyottd: what the hell are you talking about?
22:08:40  <babyottd> i asked about owner of ben_goodger bot
22:09:35  <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause: "ich liebe meinen vornamen" has "vornamen" rather than "vorname" due to me doing something to it
22:09:44  <ben_goodger> english just has "forename" for both cases
22:09:45  <Bjarni> yeah... who added the ben_goodger bot in here?
22:09:46  <babyottd> english : (
22:09:47  <babyottd> lame rather make him say gaga from time to what ? : ben_goodger
22:09:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
22:09:53  <Eddi|zuHause> english is lame :p
22:10:12  <Bjarni> yeah
22:10:12  <babyottd> yeah
22:10:23  <Bjarni> let's all switch to Engrish instead
22:10:25  <babyottd> let it flow
22:11:01  <Eddi|zuHause> the english language has undergone some significant simplifications due to people of different language groups mixing, and trying to adapt to the other people's language
22:12:01  <ben_goodger> mmmm
22:12:12  <ben_goodger> it's a big mess, in other words
22:12:19  <Eddi|zuHause> most notably when the anglo saxons met with the nordic tribes, who share the same language roots, but their languages developed independently
22:12:28  <ln> one stupidity was leaving the thorn or whatever letter out of the alphabet.
22:12:36  <Bjarni> International English is just like US English: a polluted version of British English
22:12:39  <babyottd> of us gave up
22:13:02  <ben_goodger> ln: Þ?
22:13:08  <Eddi|zuHause> they basically ended up with the least common denominator of both languages
22:13:32  <ben_goodger> it does look rather too much like P, and we manage OK with "TH"
22:13:42  <Eddi|zuHause> influence from roman and french was mostly vocabulary, not so much grammar
22:13:56  <ln> ben_goodger: yeah
22:14:15  <Bjarni> ß is actually a rune that survived to present day in Icelandic
22:14:25  <babyottd> not actually evil, but Bjarni has no male sauce
22:14:25  <ben_goodger> indeed
22:14:33  <Eddi|zuHause> but contact with those also meant a simplification in grammar
22:14:36  <babyottd> i meant blowing
22:14:40  <Bjarni> >_<
22:14:44  <ln> ben_goodger: sure you manage as there is no better alternative, but just imagine how practical it would be to have a letter for such a common sound.
22:14:54  <Eddi|zuHause> it's after midnight, babyottd is getting nasty :p
22:14:58  <Bjarni> Brianetta: babyottd just went really bad :(
22:15:16  <ben_goodger> ln: we have a huge number of sounds that have no letter... it's imperfect but we cope fine
22:15:21  <ln> i guess you could manage without 'v', too, if it wasn't in the alphabet.
22:15:48  <ben_goodger> well, the romans managed without U and W
22:15:51  <babyottd> no u corner : p
22:15:57  <Bjarni> Arabic works without vowels. I heard it makes reading it interesting at times
22:16:16  <ben_goodger> Bjarni: hebrew also
22:16:19  <babyottd> once also : p
22:16:26  <Bjarni> resulting in Abdallah and Abdullah to be written in the same way
22:16:29  <babyottd> even the same way
22:16:30  <Brianetta> It's my hat (-:ß
22:16:30  <babyottd> barman's hat !
22:16:48  <ben_goodger> excuse me, I must interrupt
22:16:49  <Bjarni> Brianetta is a barman?
22:16:55  <babyottd> takes on a whole new meaning
22:16:56  <ben_goodger> what the hell is this babyottd thing?
22:16:59  <babyottd> the hell are you ?
22:17:06  <Bjarni> hey barkeep... I need another pint
22:17:21  <ben_goodger> is it a really insane human, or some sort of dreadful chat bot?
22:17:24  <ln> also the Great Vowel Shift was... so unnecessary.
22:17:24  <babyottd> with another human
22:17:26  <babyottd> great line
22:17:32  <Bjarni> ben_goodger: the first :(
22:17:34  <babyottd> the first : p
22:17:42  <ben_goodger> then why is it still here, polluting?
22:17:44  <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: well, vowels are very redundant in most cases. if you take the song "Drei Chinesen mit dem Kontrabaß", there's a play with this song, where you replace every vowel with a different one, and pretty much always you can still understand it
22:17:47  <babyottd> ( : s still ignoring me
22:17:55  <babyottd> will always eat the cheese, which is what word that
22:18:03  <ln> Brianetta: he has passed the turing test!
22:18:07  *** babyottd [] has left #openttd []
22:18:11  <Brianetta> His work is done.
22:18:20  *** Zahl [] has quit [Quit: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbar]
22:18:42  <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause: unfortunately, many languages including english have plenty of words that are pronounced the same way except for one vowel
22:19:09  <Bjarni> I would hate to write "you" without vowels
22:19:15  <Eddi|zuHause> english words tend to be shorter than german words ;)
22:19:16  <ben_goodger> heh
22:19:25  <ln> Bjarni: "u"
22:19:25  <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause: true....
22:19:36  <ben_goodger> ln: "u" is a vowel
22:19:38  <ben_goodger> ...
22:19:41  <Bjarni> ln: "u" is a vowel :P
22:19:43  <ben_goodger> *rolls eyes*
22:20:01  <ln> /ju/ is less
22:20:05  <Eddi|zuHause> it's spoken "ju", it can't be a vowel ;)
22:20:40  *** Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggzzz
22:21:13  <ln> /j/ is a semivowel.
22:21:42  <ben_goodger> er...
22:21:45  <ben_goodger>  /ju/ is its "name", /u/ is its pronunciation
22:21:48  <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly was this "great vowel shift" about anyway? a->À, e->i, i->ai, u->?
22:21:58  <Brianetta> Muahahahahah!  just doesn't have the same impact without vowels.
22:22:09  <Bjarni> :)
22:22:34  <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: the vowels are still spoken, only not written
22:22:39  <Bjarni> the same goes for aaaiiiiigggghhhhh
22:23:11  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: this thing that /a/ becomes /ei/, /e/ becomes /i/, etc. yeah.
22:23:19  <Brianetta> Eddi: There was also the consonant shift.  S -> T,  T -> D, D -> TH etc
22:23:29  <Bjarni> Brianetta: you can't tell if you write "hahaha" or "hohoho" without vowels though
22:23:31  *** TrueBrain [] has joined #openttd
22:23:38  <Bjarni> yet another bot
22:23:52  <ben_goodger> جميع الحروف الساكنة وأحرف العلة لا يجعل من العرؚية وهو الخلط ؚين الؚرنامج النصي.
22:24:07  <Bjarni> I can't pronounce that
22:24:12  <Bjarni> it lacks vowels
22:24:14  <Brianetta> Some languages just weren't designed for the typeset press.
22:24:15  <ln> ben_goodger: /u/ alone cannot be the pronunciation of the letter "u".
22:24:32  <ben_goodger> ln: try the second "u" in vacuum
22:24:47  <Eddi|zuHause> most languages are significantly older than the typeset press :p
22:25:05  <ben_goodger> to be fair, arabic did evolve using a brush
22:25:25  <Bjarni> so did Chinese and Japanese
22:25:26  <ben_goodger> greek and latin had little chisels
22:25:34  <Bjarni> they don't suffer from that problem
22:25:54  <ben_goodger> no...
22:26:06  <ben_goodger> but if you were to try and accurately reproduce handwritten latin, it would
22:26:37  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:26:41  <ben_goodger> no "s" in any word in my handwriting looks the same as the "s" in any other word
22:26:53  <Bjarni> にほんご <-- only one way to pronounce this
22:26:55  <ben_goodger> they have different sources and destinations for the pen
22:27:22  <Bjarni> we can have different sounds for a single letter depending on where the letter is
22:27:25  <ben_goodger> so it would be extremely difficult to try and typeset handwriting
22:27:45  <Bjarni> like "i" in "Iceland" and "is"
22:27:56  <ben_goodger> yes...
22:27:59  <ln> ben_goodger: there's no second u in vacuum from the pronunciation perspective.
22:28:11  <ben_goodger> there is
22:28:21  <ben_goodger> v-ac-you-oom
22:28:30  <ben_goodger> you're just saying it too quickly
22:28:31  <ben_goodger> :P
22:28:41  <ln> let me check OED
22:29:12  <Bjarni> ln: you aren't supposed to swallow letters from vacuum when you try to say it
22:29:32  <Bjarni> even though vacuum tends to swallow stuff
22:29:50  <petern> there is, if you pronounce it incorrectly
22:29:54  <Bjarni> and transports sounds really bad (or not at all)
22:30:36  <ben_goodger> Bjarni: remember that the second R is part of the "or" diphthong and hence an honorary vowel
22:30:45  <ben_goodger> so it's really "trnspts"
22:30:58  <ben_goodger> which requires that you say it with two vowels, so it's OK
22:31:22  <Brianetta> It looks like Tyrannospots, the dalmatian dino
22:31:45  <ln> /ˈvÊkjuɪəm/
22:32:34  <ben_goodger> there you go
22:33:01  <ben_goodger> meh
22:33:04  <ben_goodger> it's irrelevant
22:33:13  <Eddi|zuHause> the german word "Vakuum" has two perfect "u" sounds...
22:33:37  <petern> IPA: /ˈvÊkjuəm/, SAMPA: /"v{kju@m/ or IPA: /ˈvÊkjuːm/, SAMPA: /"v{kju:m/
22:34:16  <ln> in english the length of a vowel never changes the meaning of a word.
22:34:28  <Brianetta> spot, sport
22:34:29  <ben_goodger> true
22:34:47  <ben_goodger> Brianetta: "sport" goes down at the end
22:35:06  <ben_goodger> or rather, it exhibits descending intonation
22:35:09  <Brianetta> I don't think it does.  I think it's flat, but lower all the way.
22:35:39  <ln> it's not the same vowel in spot and sport.
22:35:40  <ben_goodger> meh, whichever way, it's not the same vowel sound
22:35:51  <Brianetta> Depends what you mean by lengthening.  I can't think of a way, in English, that you'd lengthen any vowel without it being considered some other vowel.
22:36:38  *** Xerres [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:37:14  <ln> and d'ogh, correction to my earlier line: /ˈvÊkjuːəm/ ... the image was bad quality.
22:37:57  *** Xerres [] has joined #openttd
22:40:12  <ln> bit /bɪt/, beat /biːt/
22:40:29  <fjb> Hm, is that doing something sane: sub_cmd = ++(strchr(cmd, FLU_COMMAND_SEPARATOR));
22:41:24  <TrueBrain> the position after the firt FLU_COMMAND_SEPERATOR char
22:41:50  <TrueBrain> the only thing that suprises me, is that you can do ++ before the statement :)
22:42:02  <TrueBrain> well, why not .. :)
22:42:03  <fjb> sub_cmd points to the char after the separator char?
22:42:05  <vvv444> Will give 0+1 if not found
22:42:11  <TrueBrain> that I just said :)
22:42:24  <TrueBrain> the only bad assumption here is that there is a seperator :)
22:42:57  <Bjarni> presuming can be quite fast
22:43:05  <TrueBrain> (inside 'cmd')
22:43:10  <Bjarni> presuming without knowing for sure can be really dangerous
22:43:29  <Bjarni> specially if you didn't consider error handling
22:43:37  <fjb> Hm, you are right, it doesn't let me use ++ there. :-(
22:43:50  <TrueBrain> fjb: a more readable way to put this, would be: sub_cmd = strchr(cmd, FLU_COMMAND_SEPARATOR) + 1;
22:44:17  <vvv444> I insist on camparing to NULL first...
22:44:33  <vvv444> *comparing
22:44:33  <fjb> Ah, I will try that. But it is really more sane to chek for the separator first.
22:44:40  <TrueBrain> fjb: ++ only works on variables .. which strchr isn't :p
22:45:01  <TrueBrain> not more sane, mandatory!
22:45:03  <ln> I'd say the return value of that thing is not something you can apply ++ to.
22:45:11  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, it crashed again with the same error
22:45:39  <fjb> Comparing to NULL is not required there.
22:46:04  <vvv444> fjb: If you are sure there is a separator it isn't.
22:46:40  <fjb> Oh, ok, the return value. Yes, you are right then.
22:47:06  <TrueBrain> sub_cmd = strchr(cmd, FLU_COMMAND_SEPARATOR); if (sub_cmd == NULL) error(); sub_cmd++;
22:47:21  <TrueBrain> (or ++sub_cmd; as last statement if you want an opcode less :p)
22:47:38  <Eddi|zuHause> how do i recompile with debug symbols?
22:47:46  <vvv444> --enable-debug ?
22:47:56  <vvv444> in configure
22:47:57  <TrueBrain> --enable-debug=3
22:47:57  <Bjarni> ./configure --enable-debug=3
22:48:00  <TrueBrain> also avoids inlines
22:48:05  <TrueBrain> lvl1 only gives symbols
22:48:10  <Sacro> ./configure --enable-debug=:3
22:48:15  <vvv444> That's what he asked :)
22:48:17  <TrueBrain> @kick Sacro failure
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22:48:20  <glx> lvl3 is better for gdb
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22:48:25  <Sacro> 3:
22:48:28  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: lvl3 is dead slow
22:48:43  <glx> not as slow as MSVC debug
22:48:50  <Bjarni> but really useful for tracking what went wrong
22:48:55  <vvv444> TB: Does it enable any optimization at all?
22:48:59  <TrueBrain> glx: agree'd :)
22:49:16  <glx> vvv444: yes -O0
22:49:40  <vvv444> glx: tnx. Btw, MSVC debug can be used with optimizations.
22:49:44  <TrueBrain> vvv444: the name is TrueBrain, use <tab> ...
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22:50:24  <Bjarni> it's called "Computer. Exit"
22:50:27  <glx> vvv444: optimisations may cause bugs (we had that)
22:50:28  <vvv444> TrueBrain: Last time I used IRC was 5 years ago. Thanks for the tip. Sorry for shortening.
22:50:34  <Bjarni> not Operator :p
22:50:42  <fjb> TrueBrain: Thank you.
22:51:09  <TrueBrain> vvv444: no problem, it is just my IRC doens't light up on TB :p
22:51:12  <Eddi|zuHause> IRC clients had tab completition for more than 5 years :p
22:51:59  <vvv444> glx: I had that too. Moreover, I have had compiler bugs even without (gcc for dsPic processor)
22:52:32  <TrueBrain> compiler-bugs are lovely to trace :)
22:52:35  <TrueBrain> easy to trigger
22:53:03  <vvv444> To disassemble mostly, on embeded processor without proper debugger it just causes reset.
22:53:19  <TrueBrain> (/me points to gcc 2.95 ;))
22:53:27  <glx> optimisations showed us some undefine behaviour
22:53:43  <TrueBrain> I wish you all a good night
22:53:48  <vvv444> gn
22:53:49  <TrueBrain> fjb: good luck with your assignment :)
22:54:03  <glx> like func(Random(), Random()) working in debug but failing in release
22:54:09  <glx> or something like that
22:54:22  <TrueBrain> glx: LOL! Nice example .. bad coding-practice ;)
22:54:27  <glx> indeed
22:54:28  <TrueBrain> I need to remember that ... :)
22:54:37  <fjb> TrueBrain: Thank you. I start to get used to C.
22:54:52  <glx> was fun to trace this one reading the asm
22:56:28  <vvv444> glx: What was in that case?
22:56:54  <glx> order of function calls is undefined
22:57:48  <vvv444> Oh, well, indeed not nice. However, not as bad as compiler bug...
22:58:04  <glx> same goes for func() | func()
22:58:28  <vvv444> Well the classic example was foo(a++, a++, a++) :)
22:58:47  <glx> right
22:59:20  <vvv444> About or... I think C does define that A || B evaluate A first.
22:59:30  <vvv444> Same about &&
22:59:59  <ln> and doesn't evaluate B if not needed.
23:01:05  <Yexo> DaleStan: about The AI has to find an id for the engine to use by itself and can only check if it is allowed to buy that engine. Then the newgrf will provide an id for the wagon to use. <- is that correct?
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23:11:19  <ln> why:
23:13:46  <Eddi|zuHause> #5  0x0816a007 in RoadVehController (v=0x846f0a8) <- how can i now find out which vehicle this is ingame?
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23:14:22  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a tram, but i have like 10 of those
23:14:32  <ln> does "print *v" show anything useful?
23:15:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i have to switch to the right context first
23:16:32  <Eddi|zuHause>  = {<PoolItem<Vehicle, short unsigned int, (& _Vehicle_pool)>> = {
23:16:34  <Eddi|zuHause>     _vptr.PoolItem = 0x8281ec8, index = 7} [...]
23:19:37  <ln> doesn't look especially useful, but i haven't debugged vehicles
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23:31:10  <Eddi|zuHause>,%203.%20Maer%201920.png <- the game crashes when this tram hits the "dead end" track behind the tram stop (where it's missing the turnaround track)
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23:42:54  <SmatZ> @openttd commit 14458
23:42:54  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by smatz :: r14458 trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp (2008-10-10 22:50:31 UTC)
23:42:55  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Fix [FS#2341](r14368): crash when there was a tram dead end after a station/tunnel/bridge (frosch123 and Rubidium)
23:43:06  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: ^^^^ should be fixed there
23:44:46  <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar did not sync that yet, i'm afraid
23:45:38  <Eddi|zuHause> 14417 was the last sync, as far as i can tell
23:50:54  <Eddi|zuHause> right, now it doesn't crash anymore. the tram just gets stuck without telling me...
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