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00:00:26 *** walshdragon is now known as welshdragon 00:12:01 <Eddi|zuHause> is it possible that apache is extraordinarily slow? 00:12:49 <Aali> i would say yes but i have no idea what you're talking about 00:13:55 <Eddi|zuHause> for my diploma thesis i have to provide a webservice interface to my program, when i run that as a server on localhost, i get replys instantly, if i run them on an apache on localhost, replies take >1s 00:15:08 <SmatZ> is it possible there are too many requests and too few worker threads? 00:15:42 <Eddi|zuHause> no, only one request at a time 00:16:40 <Aali> apache is not that crappy 00:17:41 <thingwath> first request in row, or every request? 00:18:05 *** welshdragon [~vista@87.102.21.185] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:18:46 <Eddi|zuHause> the example client calls each function of the webservice once with a sample input. that's like 10 calls overall 00:19:27 <Eddi|zuHause> some functions take actual time to calculate, but others should just fetch trivial data 00:20:21 <Aali> and everything takes >1s? 00:20:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 00:21:09 <eMJay> Eddi|zuHause: I would suggest that since apache hosts a majority of websites, it is not the problem exactly 00:21:12 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:21:34 <eMJay> if there was a >1s lag on each request, it would have fallen out of popularity by now 00:21:34 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 00:21:48 <Char> lol 00:22:36 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 00:22:54 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: is the webservice connecting to something else, like a database? 00:22:57 <thingwath> I would try strace :) 00:24:13 * Rubidium has seen apache behave *very* slowly when the hdd was almost full 00:25:20 *** welshdragon [~vista@87.102.21.185] has joined #openttd 00:30:39 *** fonso [~fonso@e178102013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.7 : http://kopete.kde.org] 00:31:03 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:32:30 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has quit [Quit: http://www.interplay.com/] 00:32:49 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:33:09 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:52:47 <Char> wb 00:55:17 *** Zahl [~Zahl@f051069122.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbar] 01:11:11 * Belugas tries to revive his work on newobjects 01:12:20 <Sacro> http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/19/0,1425,sz=1&i=194852,00.gif 01:12:26 <Sacro> http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.1/screenshots/desktop.png 01:23:24 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 01:23:24 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:23:27 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 01:26:25 <Char> hmmm 01:26:33 <Char> i guess i am too stupid for this ECS vector stuff 01:27:05 <Char> it does not seem to work 01:27:27 <Aali> what? 01:27:35 <glx> grf order is important for ECS 01:27:48 <Char> yeah 01:27:53 <Char> i put town vector first 01:28:13 <glx> and the other in grfid order 01:28:43 <Char> uhmmm 01:28:51 <Char> why is there a town vector and a basic vector? 01:29:01 <Belugas> ask George :) 01:29:49 <Char> :P 01:29:54 <Char> now it seems to work 01:30:01 <SmatZ> Char: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECSVectors this may help you 01:30:39 <Char> SmatZ: yeah, thanks, but i read that already (i said i was too stupid) 01:30:56 <Char> what bothers me, though, is that i cannot build the vehicles to transport the stuff 01:31:23 <glx> lv4 should work correctly (road) 01:32:01 <Char> lv4? 01:32:08 <glx> long vehicle 01:32:10 <Aali> long vehicles 4 01:32:19 <glx> bt egrvts works too 01:33:01 <Belugas> if you look in the forums, there's a thread called "you have a problem with ECS vectors? look here " or somehting like that, Char 01:33:09 <Belugas> you might find a lot of usefull infos in there 01:33:57 <Belugas> going to bed 01:33:59 <Belugas> see you 01:35:49 <SmatZ> bye bye Belugas 01:37:15 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host217-44-221-18.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 01:40:32 *** Sacro|Laptop [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 01:51:39 <Char> whatever. i guess i really am too stupid right now 01:51:57 <Char> and i would need to find a train set that supports ECS cargoes, which the standard one does not 01:52:54 <Char> so 01:52:57 <Char> i go to bed for now 01:53:47 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@147.251.215.232] has quit [Quit: Quit] 02:00:59 *** Char [~Ich@d83-180-224-143.cust.tele2.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:08:21 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-39-235.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:35:35 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 02:40:35 *** valhalla2w [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 02:41:34 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:43:46 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:54:48 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet515.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:01:02 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl8-52-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 03:06:53 <Digitalfox> How good is Code Gear c++ Builder 2007? My university demands we code c on it and show projects on it until next year where can choose another compiler/builder.. 03:13:52 <eMJay> http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=uCRS2H-EAYA 03:13:55 <eMJay> looks ok to me :P 03:14:46 <Sacro|Laptop> Digitalfox: use whatever IDE you feel like, use whatever they want to provide project files 03:14:48 <Sacro|Laptop> ... 03:14:50 <Sacro|Laptop> profit 03:15:20 * eMJay agrees with Sacro|Laptop 03:15:34 <Sacro|Laptop> we are given VS2008 03:15:35 <Sacro|Laptop> I use vim 03:17:32 <Digitalfox> well they say VS2008 is not standard friendly because of pointers names 03:18:05 <Digitalfox> but thanks for the link eMJay and sacro 03:20:15 <Sacro|Laptop> Digitalfox: cite 03:20:32 <eMJay> Digitalfox: any decent IDE should be able to refactor names... 03:20:43 <eMJay> at the very worst, find-replace should work :P 03:22:19 <Digitalfox> Well the major reason is they want us to code c and c++ using all it's standards and only after a year of it we can use another IDE :\ 03:23:27 <eMJay> I guess I'd give c++ builder a go and if it sucked I'd use notepad/vim/nano/whatever... 03:24:03 <Digitalfox> yeah will try c++ builder.. Lets hope it's good :) 03:24:15 <Sacro|Laptop> Digitalfox: its 03:25:47 <Digitalfox> By the way Sacro how are you? Feeling better? 03:28:26 *** Yexo [~Yexo@88.159.88.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:54 <Sacro|Laptop> Digitalfox: yah thanks 03:42:59 <Sacro|Laptop> tired though 03:50:06 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl8-52-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:50:27 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl8-52-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 04:10:07 *** Sacro|Laptop [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:14:55 <ccfreak2k> Why are there never cars or people in any ttd cities? 04:16:22 <eMJay> they're all reclusive 04:16:35 <Aali> they're inside, playing ttd 04:16:57 <eMJay> and waiting at stations, to visit their friends houses to play ttd 04:17:10 <eMJay> (the internet hasn't been invented) 04:18:05 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:18:15 <ccfreak2k> Maybe someone should make trucks or trains to move packets around. 04:18:36 <Aali> actually you could deliver a thousand people to a road tile if you really wanted to 04:20:30 <eMJay> damn that would be slow internet :P 04:21:20 <ccfreak2k> Fine. Maybe I'll just buy all the land around your town and let it whither and die. 04:21:26 <eMJay> can anyone explain to me how a helicopter can have a next()? 04:21:37 <eMJay> let alone a next()->next()? 04:21:59 <ccfreak2k> Good question. 04:22:12 <ccfreak2k> I guess it's to clarify that you don't want next()->previous() or something. 04:24:25 <eMJay> I'm looking the todo in Doxygen 04:24:31 <eMJay> looking at* 04:27:37 <eMJay> And from the code in aircraft_cmd.cpp, the higher the speed the slower the rotors spin? 04:31:51 <glx> eMJay: helicopter->shadow->rotor 04:32:29 <glx> that's why it can carry passengers and mail 04:33:12 <glx> and good night 04:33:17 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:42:09 <eMJay> ah... 05:45:15 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5C792.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 05:57:32 <ln> schönen guten morgen 06:02:09 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0FC90.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.lagerwiki.de - das Wiki rund um's Thema Lager und Logistik] 06:05:31 *** eMJay [~michael@60-241-9-164.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:54 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:11:52 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.203] has joined #openttd 06:20:56 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 06:22:44 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:50:31 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:52:19 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485EC11.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:55:27 *** PandaTits [7bf3ce66@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:55:36 <PandaTits> Ug. 06:56:03 *** fjb [~frank@p5485E065.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:56:21 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 06:56:46 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:04:03 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 07:04:14 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:05:15 *** PandaTits [7bf3ce66@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 07:06:02 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [] 07:06:10 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:22:24 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:22:38 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 07:28:11 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 07:28:19 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:35:56 *** Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC 07:40:14 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 07:40:43 *** elmex [~elmex@e180064147.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 07:40:48 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:43:49 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 07:49:51 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 07:53:38 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 07:53:46 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:01:19 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:04:28 *** Char [~Ich@d83-180-95-87.cust.tele2.ch] has joined #openttd 08:07:14 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has joined #openttd 08:07:17 *** mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ 08:07:27 <Celestar> good morning 08:08:27 *** FloSoft [~sifldoer@g229068204.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 08:11:59 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 08:12:07 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:12:33 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:12:41 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #openttd [] 08:12:46 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:12:56 <ln> a morning in Australia, too 08:13:14 <Gekz> it's not morning. 08:14:32 <Char> depends on where you are 08:14:51 <Char> and since i guess that quite some of us live in europe.... 08:15:24 <Celestar> hm 08:15:51 <Celestar> China has now officially admitted that they produce more greenhouse gases than any other nation on this planet and expect to at least double that value till 2030. 08:16:08 <Char> cool 08:16:20 <Char> clima catastrophe hip-hip-hoooray. 08:16:21 <Char> :/ 08:16:39 <Celestar> they also officially don't care (apparently) 08:16:39 <petern> well they do have a lot of people 08:16:52 <Char> the problem is 08:17:05 <Char> as long as the USA continue their current policy 08:17:11 <Char> there is no reason to care for china 08:17:27 <Celestar> it's not the USA's fault that China doesn't give a damn 08:17:33 <Char> well 08:17:57 <Celestar> China wouldn't give a damn if the US had NO emmission whatsoever 08:18:08 <Char> now the problem is 08:18:13 <Char> the USA are far more developed 08:18:15 <Char> and the USA say 08:18:40 <Char> well, we will not reduce our CO2 emissions if it harms our economic growth 08:18:54 <Char> the US economy is in a much better shape than chinas 08:19:20 <Char> now why would china say "hey great, guys, you do not care, but we do" ? 08:19:39 <Char> their argument kinda is 08:20:04 <Celestar> I'm by far no supported of the US policy; but saying it's ther US fault/problem than China is now the biggest polluter is kinda far-fetched 08:20:10 <Char> "you have been spending years emitting greenhouse gases like crazy, and now you want us, who are much less developed, to not emit them?" 08:20:31 <Char> no, i am not saying that 08:21:04 <Char> i am just saying that the US policy does nothing to help the international community convince china to reduce greenhouse gas emisions 08:21:06 <Celestar> it's solely China's fault, and it's solely China's responsibility to remedy the situation. 08:22:19 <Char> hmmm. so you don't see my point? 08:22:24 <Celestar> and with any decent policy, greenhouse-gas-reduction doesn't affect economic growth. 08:22:32 <Char> it does 08:22:38 <Char> not much, but it does 08:22:40 <Celestar> it needn't 08:22:47 <Celestar> only if you do it wrong.- 08:22:52 <Celestar> like, for example, germany 08:23:05 <Char> it does 08:23:08 <Char> it has to 08:23:12 <Celestar> er why? 08:23:33 <Char> if you are trying to optimize for the most economic growth 08:23:53 <Char> and then you are adding an additional restriction (like, lower greenhouse gas emission) 08:24:06 <Char> then you get a new "optimal solution" for what you should do 08:24:27 <Char> now, it is theoretically possible that the new optimal solution has the same economic growth 08:24:40 <Celestar> just use non-greenhouse-gas-producing power plants and most of the problem is solved. 08:24:53 <Char> it cannot be that the economic growth is higher (cause otherwise, you could have taken that solution in the non-restricted scenario) 08:25:05 <Char> but chances are VERY high that the new optimal solution is worse 08:25:33 <Char> i mean 08:25:41 <Celestar> I quite disagree there 08:25:46 <Char> i see that a greenhouse gas reduction policy is a very good idea 08:26:05 <Char> hmmmm. you may disagree, however, this is basic optimization theory ;) 08:26:22 <Char> although i have to admit that the current policy is far from optimal as well ;) 08:26:33 <Char> with regards to economic growth 08:27:03 <Celestar> Char: the thing is: the energy production with the lower greenhouse gas emmission is accidently also the energy production with the lowest cost. 08:27:04 <Char> and yes, if done decently, the effect on economic growth is quite low, i guess 08:27:47 <Char> you are voting for nuclear power plants here? 08:28:53 <Celestar> of course 08:28:57 <Char> hmmm 08:29:08 <Char> that got its own subtle problems 08:29:27 <Char> besides, you cannot support more than like 60% of your energy consumption with nuclear power. 08:29:41 <Celestar> yes. but there is not the faintest chance that we even remotely meet our own goals without BUILDING ADDITIONAL nuclear power plants 08:30:26 <Char> and, btw, coming back to china, their attitude towards greenhouse gases probably is like "why should we give a shit and care about it when noone else does, especially those who are far more developed than us". 08:30:50 <petern> china has nuclear power plants under construction 08:30:54 <Celestar> Char: they wouldn't give a shit even with everyone else caring 08:31:19 <Char> well, but that is because economic growth still is the holy grail for any kind of politics.... which i think is stupid in the long term 08:32:05 <Celestar> economic growth is required. 08:32:37 <Char> Celestar: well, you know that for sure? probably true, but at least you could pressure them if the rest of the world would be trying very hard to reduce greenhouse gases. but with economic growth being more important than the general health of this planet.... 08:32:45 <Char> Celestar: for what? 08:32:53 <Celestar> Char: keeping people employed 08:33:16 <Char> why cant people be employed in a stable economy (non-growing)? 08:33:24 <Char> well, yeah, i know, it currently works like that 08:33:32 <Celestar> Char: it inherently works like that 08:33:34 <Char> but economy cannot grow forever 08:33:42 <Celestar> growth means life, stagnation means death. 08:33:47 <Celestar> Stagnation is NEVER good 08:34:09 <Char> just thinking logically, there will be times when the economic growth either comes to a halt or we have a depression 08:34:17 <Celestar> temporarily 08:34:30 <Char> no 08:34:32 <Char> generally 08:34:34 <Char> cause 08:34:43 <Char> there is like an "upper limit" 08:34:46 <Char> there must be 08:34:48 <Char> somewhere 08:34:55 <Char> probably we are still far from it, though 08:35:10 <Celestar> In any kind of economy there will be at least some kind of increase in efficiency, thus productivity increases. Unless the economic growth matches the productivity increases, jobs will be lost. 08:35:40 <Char> yeah 08:35:44 <Char> or we all have to work less 08:35:56 <Char> and enjoy more leisure time 08:36:13 <Celestar> yes, and you get into a vicious circle... 08:36:16 <Char> i know it currently works like this 08:36:30 <Char> i am just saying 08:36:36 <Char> maybe we should think of other options 08:36:48 <Char> and try to be less narrow-minded 08:36:53 <Celestar> Char: trying to freeze a state of a system is not an option 08:37:09 <Char> i am not 08:37:59 <Celestar> a non-growing economy is a kind of system freeze 08:38:08 <Char> not necessarily 08:38:29 <Celestar> let me generalize: a non-growing state will not exist. 08:38:34 <Celestar> it's either up or down 08:38:36 <Char> its just that other things change, not the gross national product 08:39:08 <Char> btw, another option is to have a stable economy, but reduce the amount of people 08:39:13 <Char> gradually 08:39:20 <Celestar> let's talk Gross Human Product 08:39:23 <Char> like china does with its single-child policy 08:39:32 <Celestar> he. china still has population growth 08:39:36 <Celestar> significant 08:39:36 <Char> i know 08:39:43 <Char> but they significantly reduced it 08:39:45 <Char> and also 08:39:57 <Char> the point is that the one-child policy is not as effective anymore 08:40:07 <Celestar> I don't think telling people how many kinds they are supposed to have is the way to go 08:40:26 <Char> because all those children who have no siblings now grow up 08:40:36 <Char> and if two of them marry, they may have more than one child 08:41:13 <Char> well, i dont think having uncontrolled population growth is the way to go either 08:41:16 <Celestar> there will always be population growth of some sort 08:41:18 <Celestar> always. 08:41:23 <Char> yeah 08:41:27 <Celestar> and I don't think that's a bad thing per se 08:41:32 <Char> until the earth is either uninhabitable 08:41:34 <Rubidium> aren't orphans (due to the one child policy) the major export product of china? 08:41:40 <Char> or we get world war III 08:42:00 <Celestar> Char: there are other ways 08:42:02 <Char> and i am pretty sure one of those things will happen in my lifetime 08:42:07 <Char> probably world war III 08:42:48 <Celestar> I do not share your pessimistic appraisal of the situation 08:42:49 <Char> Rubidium: no idea 08:43:01 <Char> Celestar: you don't have to ;) 08:43:05 <Char> and btw 08:43:18 <Char> i do think that constant population growth is a bad thing in the long run 08:43:35 <Char> because i do not think that this earth is able to support 14+ billion people 08:43:44 <Char> and i also think that if we were only like one billion 08:43:49 <Char> lots of things would be much easier 08:43:55 <Rubidium> Char: that highly depends on the resource usage 08:44:05 <Char> well 08:44:07 <Char> point is 08:44:12 <Char> if we were only one billion 08:44:14 <Celestar> Char: Earth is not the only planet 08:44:24 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44:25 <Rubidium> if everyone would act like an American (the USA kind of American) the earth only supports roughly 1 billion people 08:44:33 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 08:44:41 <Char> we could use up 14 times the ressources that we could use up if we were 14 billion 08:44:41 <Celestar> Rubidium: using current technology. 08:44:57 <Char> Celestar: currently, the earth is the only freaking earth we have 08:45:13 <Char> and the next earth-like planet is at least ~50 light years away 08:45:15 <Celestar> Char: yes. hence there's need to extend our grasp 08:45:35 <Char> which means, we will not reach them within the next ~200-1000 years for sure 08:45:38 <Celestar> Char: Mars is Earth-like enough to support many billions on the long run 08:45:57 <Char> yeah, go for it, i would not want to live on mars. 08:45:57 *** Mortal [~mortal@217.61.144.15] has joined #openttd 08:46:03 <Celestar> why? 08:46:26 <Char> cause.... you know.... 08:46:47 <ln> expensive DSL connections, because of the little number of ISPs. 08:47:02 <Rubidium> internet lags a lot 08:47:03 <Char> i like sitting under autum-yellow trees in the warm september sun hugging and kissing my girlfriend without caring about fuck like my oxygen supply 08:47:31 <Celestar> Char: Mars can be terraformed 08:47:35 <Char> yeah 08:47:42 <Char> they still miss an atmosphere 08:47:47 <Celestar> which can be generated 08:48:01 <Char> mars is not heavy enough to keep it as far as i know 08:48:12 <Celestar> yes and no 08:48:21 <Celestar> depends on the atmosphere and the timescales 08:48:47 <Char> there is a zone around each sun which is inhabitable 08:48:50 <Celestar> it would have to be resupplied at regular intervals probably (regular intervals being about 1% in a million years) 08:48:50 <Char> mars isnt in it 08:49:04 <Celestar> Char: there are THREE planets in Sol's habitable zone 08:49:06 <Char> okay fine 08:49:11 <Char> really? 08:49:20 <Celestar> soon, there will be two, since the HabZone of every star moves outward. 08:49:23 <ln> Char: what's wrong with sitting under summer-pink trees in warm marstober sun hugging your girlfriend's space helmet? 08:49:25 <Char> still, we are not getting to an inhabitable mars within the next 1000 years 08:49:28 <Char> which means for me 08:49:32 <Celestar> Char: Venus, Earth and Mars. 08:49:32 <Char> stick to the earth for now 08:49:46 <Celestar> Char: it's exactly that kind of thinking that will get us stuck forever. 08:49:50 <Char> ln: the space helmet 08:50:02 <Char> you know, i like body contact 08:50:26 <Celestar> even about 20 years after the first landing, there wouldn't be space helmets for most of the time. 08:50:31 <Char> Celestar: no. i am completely willing to accept that you might at some point be able to live on mars 08:50:37 <Char> i just wouldnt count on it for now 08:50:51 <Celestar> Char: not count. But start acting. 08:50:57 <Char> fine 08:51:01 <Char> go ahead 08:51:03 <Char> USA are 08:51:15 <Celestar> Char: Earth is way to small a basket for mankind to put all its eggs in. 08:51:18 <Celestar> they're not really. 08:51:50 <Celestar> Char: one 10km-asteroid and we're goners 08:52:10 <Celestar> at least, 95% of us at least 08:52:15 <Char> i guess its easier to survey the space around us for asteroids 08:52:20 <Char> than to go for mars, but well 08:52:53 <Celestar> Char: what will that survey help? 08:52:56 <Celestar> Char: brace for impact? 08:52:59 <Char> no 08:53:20 <Char> if you see the asteroids early enough 08:53:24 <Char> you can change their path 08:53:27 <Celestar> yes. 08:53:47 <Char> and 08:53:53 <Celestar> Provided to have space fusion reactors and a crew that installs some driver onto the asteroid. 08:54:08 <Char> the risk of being hit within the next 1000 years is like.... extremely low 08:54:17 <Char> not really 08:54:23 <Char> there is a variety of options 08:54:52 <Char> you can for example try to install solar panels and get driven by solar wind 08:54:57 <Celestar> Char: Since 2000, we've been hit by half a dozen of asteroids that all exceed the explosive force of the largest Hbomb ever tested. 08:55:08 <Celestar> Char: that doesn't work for a 1km+ asteroid. 08:55:12 <Char> and did it hurt us? 08:55:22 <Char> it does, if you do it early enough 08:55:22 <Celestar> Char: no cuz they went down over water. 08:55:33 <Celestar> Char: Early enough in this case means >1 century. 08:55:38 <Char> well 08:55:41 <Char> so survey more space 08:55:51 <Celestar> er. 08:55:58 <Celestar> how are we getting the solar sails there? 08:56:01 <Celestar> we need a crew. 08:56:06 <Char> fine 08:56:08 <Char> train one 08:56:10 <ln> bruce willis would volunteer. 08:56:26 <Celestar> Char: and it would need a 25-year journey at least. 08:56:36 <Char> btw 08:56:42 <Char> you could use robots 08:56:44 <Rubidium> asteroid and >1 century... doesn't that mean that they are coming directly from the Oort belt? 08:56:49 <Char> makes quite some things a lot easier 08:57:10 <Celestar> Rubidium: several of the heavy hitters are. 08:57:10 <Char> Celestar: by the way, just a side question: what are you doing in reallife? 08:57:37 <petern> coding ottd :D 08:57:41 <Celestar> Char: doing my PhD in mechanical engineering (computational fluid dynamics for gas turbine application) 08:57:43 <Rubidium> then when you notice them you need to send something to that direction and interception will take eons 08:57:59 <petern> hmm, date: 16 aug 2008 08:58:05 <petern> well, these drives are not too old :D 08:58:10 <Char> Celestar: well... i am about to start a phd in measurement and control technology ;) 08:58:15 <Celestar> Rubidium: if we say one year, a solar sail will not be enough. You need at least a nuclear electric rocket. 08:58:24 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-69-27.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 08:58:31 <Celestar> Char: my Major is aerospace engineering and power plants. 08:58:33 * dih hugs Belugas 08:58:40 <Char> ;) 08:58:52 <Char> sounds like you got an idea what you are talking about 08:59:01 <Celestar> unfortunately 08:59:06 <Char> however 08:59:11 <Celestar> because I don't always like what I see :P 08:59:21 <Char> i would still not count on mars to live on 08:59:25 <Char> cause 08:59:26 <Celestar> er not for us. 08:59:27 <Celestar> :) 08:59:32 <Char> if you say like 95% death 08:59:39 <Char> from a heavy hitter 08:59:52 <Celestar> a 10km would do so 08:59:54 <Char> and now you shift some people to mars 09:00:03 <Celestar> That won't help. 09:00:07 <Char> exactly 09:00:18 <Char> you still got 95% death 09:00:26 <Char> and 10.000 people watching from mars 09:00:31 <Rubidium> just "call" the Asgard ;) 09:00:37 <Char> btw 09:00:41 <Celestar> we need the Mars colony to launch a deflection mission from there. 09:00:46 <Celestar> it's much easier from there. 09:00:50 <Celestar> everything we need is there. 09:01:02 <Celestar> and the Delta-V for such a mission is a fraction of what you need from earth. 09:01:14 <Char> a 10km monster is a once-in-100.000.000-years-occurrence, right? 09:01:28 <Celestar> Char: once in 60 million years. Last occurence was 65 million years ago 09:01:36 <Char> uhmmm.... okay 09:01:37 <Rubidium> Celestar: that's a hefty task for the few robots on there 09:01:41 <Char> that is, if you shoot directly 09:01:53 <Char> why cant you use a swing-by-maneuver? 09:02:04 <Char> which has pretty much the same effect 09:02:08 <Char> just takes a year longer 09:02:14 <Celestar> a 4m asteroid (Hiroshima-equivalent) has 1/year frequency. 09:02:25 <Celestar> Char: because you need most of the Delta-V to get into Earth's orbit. 09:02:49 <Char> Celestar: so.... that means chances are high we still got another one or ten million years :) 09:03:18 <Celestar> a 40m asteroid (Tsar Bomba) has a 1/400 years occurence. wrong place => 500 "Megadeaths" 09:03:37 <Char> hmmm 09:03:45 <Char> tsar boma? 09:03:54 <Celestar> the biggest H-Bomb ever tested. 09:03:57 <Rubidium> can we vote where the asteroid will hit? 09:04:15 <Celestar> Rubidium: we can, but chances are the astroid will care not :P 09:04:40 <Char> however. 09:04:57 <Char> to be honest, i think we have more important problems to take care of than an asteroid from space 09:05:08 <Celestar> Char: the thing is: there are about 200 000 estimated Near-Earth-Objects bigger than 100 meters. ALL of them will hit sooner or later. 09:05:15 <Char> cause that problem is very unlikely to really become a problem 09:05:27 <Char> on the other hand, the climate is very likely to become a problem 09:05:46 <Celestar> Char: Space is able to provide us with solutions to many earth-bound problems, mostly: Energy, Thirst and Hunger. 09:05:47 <Char> Celestar: good thing is: most of them will hit later 09:05:48 <Rubidium> Celestar: with hit you mean any celestial body, right? 09:05:54 <Celestar> Rubidium: hit Earth. 09:06:18 <Celestar> Rubidium: "Near-Earth" objects. 09:06:31 <Char> well 09:06:36 <Char> most of them are under control 09:06:42 <Char> i.e. their paths are calculated 09:06:45 <Char> or not? 09:06:51 <Rubidium> that's orbit of object intersects orbit of earth, right? 09:07:05 <Celestar> er. about 190 000 are not even calatogued yet. 09:07:21 <Char> and still, i would better have the problems of earth taken care of on earth 09:07:24 <Celestar> Rubidium: or come close enough for Earth's gravity to become paramount. 09:07:37 <Char> cause earth is able to give solutions to these problems as well 09:07:40 <Char> and 09:07:41 <Celestar> Char: Space will/could also provide a clean and almost infinite energy source. 09:07:45 <Char> it is much simpler 09:07:49 <Rubidium> so they can, if we're lucky, hit other planets or the sun 09:07:54 <Rubidium> or even the moon 09:08:07 <Rubidium> which is probably the biggest NEO ;) 09:08:14 <Char> ;) 09:08:20 <Celestar> Rubidium: Moon is an option. Mars is an option. Due to the sizes, about 90+% will hit earth :) 09:08:22 <Char> whatever. i need some breakfast. 09:08:28 <Celestar> Rubidium: Moon is moving way from earth. 09:08:33 <Celestar> at about 1cm/year 09:08:45 <Celestar> that's why the Earth's rotation is getting slower and slower 09:09:11 <Celestar> in due time, one earth's day will be about 28 or our current days. 09:09:37 <Celestar> maybe more. 09:09:44 <Celestar> should be more 09:09:56 <Celestar> gotta recompute that once. 09:10:02 <petern> we won't be worrying about global warming then 09:10:04 <Celestar> maybe planetmaker has the solution at hand ;) 09:10:11 <ln> finally the extra hours per day i've been hoping for. 09:10:14 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 09:10:17 <Celestar> ln: yeah \o/ 09:10:35 <Celestar> petern: we will, because the sun's luminosity increases permanently 09:10:48 <Celestar> not much, but not little enough not to notice ;) 09:12:15 <Celestar> frankly, we have little idea about what influences the climate. 09:12:27 <Celestar> if you make 100 simulations, you get 100 different results :( 09:15:30 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-69-27.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 09:17:38 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:19:52 <Gekz> Celestar: what is the timeframe for this extension of the day 09:20:10 <Celestar> Gekz: I think about a microsecond per year or so 09:20:19 <Gekz> awesome. 09:20:25 <Gekz> not enough to make me happy 09:20:31 <Gekz> I was hoping before I died it would be 4 hours 09:20:54 <Gekz> and I have nothing against lowering emissions whether or not its causing warming 09:20:57 <Gekz> they're too high 09:21:00 <Gekz> -.- 09:21:02 <Gekz> look at China 09:21:04 <Gekz> fark. 09:21:09 <petern> oh i was only.... 28 hours from tulsa 09:21:28 <Celestar> Gekz: I quite agree. 09:22:07 <Celestar> "As a result of the conservation of angular momentum, the increasing semimajor axis of the Moon is accompanied by a gradual slowing of the Earth's rotation by about 0.002 seconds per day per century.[52]" 09:22:23 <Celestar> great unit :P 09:24:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.216.29] has joined #openttd 09:25:53 *** petern [~petern@84.246.155.74] has quit [Quit: installationorizing] 09:30:50 <Celestar> Char: where is your PhD taking place? 09:31:59 <Char> zurich 09:32:10 <Celestar> ah nice 09:32:16 <Char> where is yours? 09:32:27 <ln> utf-8 only -- zÃŒrich 09:32:37 <planetmaker> [10:29] <Gekz> [10:19:52] Celestar: what is the timeframe for this extension of the day <--- 1 Milliseconds per century 09:32:40 <Char> utf-8 09:32:53 <planetmaker> actually. I meant to write 2 Milliseconds :P 09:33:09 <Celestar> planetmaker: so my microsecond per year was only about a OOM of :) 09:33:12 <Char> planetmaker: not trying to make you unhappy but 09:33:18 <Char> <@Celestar> "As a result of the conservation of angular momentum, the increasing semimajor axis of the Moon is accompanied by a gradual slowing of the Earth's rotation by about 0.002 seconds per day per century.[52]" 09:33:34 <planetmaker> Just saw it then. 09:33:37 <Char> whats utf-8? 09:33:54 *** welshdragon [~vista@87.102.21.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:33:59 <planetmaker> a search-warrant for wikipedia :P 09:34:06 <Char> ?? 09:34:15 <Celestar> planetmaker: so when we achieve mutual tidal lock between Earth and Luna, what will the rotation speed of Earth be? 09:34:25 <Celestar> Char: what OS are you on? 09:34:27 <planetmaker> dunno, Celestar. 09:34:33 <Celestar> planetmaker: pity :P 09:34:38 <Celestar> let's compute? ;) 09:34:38 <Char> Celestar: win xp 09:34:47 <Char> char: why? 09:34:55 <Celestar> UTF-8 is some encoding system. 09:35:04 <Celestar> "codepage" for DOS/WIN talk 09:35:07 <planetmaker> but much longer than 28 days as increasing lunar distance will increase the lunar month - which then will have to be an Earthian day 09:35:19 <Celestar> planetmaker: yeah, I noticed that later too (= 09:35:19 <Char> Celestar: still, you did not answer where your PhD is taking place 09:35:24 <Celestar> Char: Munich 09:35:34 <Char> Celestar: thats not too far from here, then 09:35:40 <Celestar> nope 09:35:42 <Celestar> not at all 09:35:43 <ln> *that's 09:35:49 <Celestar> unless you use a train :( 09:35:50 <ln> *what's 09:37:04 <Rubidium> or you walk ;) (2 days and 13 hours non-stop walking) 09:37:14 <planetmaker> :D 09:37:37 <Celestar> that's not much slower than the train. 09:37:57 <Celestar> They used to run Munich-ZÃŒrich with ICE-TDs 09:38:18 <planetmaker> Celestar: but I have some doubts that it's worthwhile to calculate the time when Earth and moon will be both tidally locked - it will be after the Sun died. 09:38:31 <Rubidium> Celestar: "only" a little over 4 hours 09:38:35 <Celestar> planetmaker: I tihnk so 09:38:45 <Celestar> Rubidium: yes. or about 3 hours by car using normal driving 09:38:48 <Rubidium> that's ofcourse twice as much as with a car 09:39:07 <Celestar> 4 != 2*3 09:39:10 <Rubidium> hmm, although... not much German autobahn 09:39:27 <Char> the munich - zurich connection is pretty fucked up 09:39:32 <Char> i used that a few times 09:39:39 <Char> when i did my internship in munich 09:39:45 <Celestar> no. Munich-Lindau is fucked up. Lindau ZÃŒrich is actually quite ok 09:39:58 <Celestar> It's a single, non-electrified line 09:40:25 <planetmaker> all ICE connections currently are f***d up. 09:40:41 <Celestar> planetmaker: those with ICE-Ts mostly 09:41:04 <planetmaker> yeah. But it's a network... so ripples spread. 09:42:04 <Celestar> yeah 09:42:08 <Rubidium> planetmaker: something being a network doesn't necessarily mean that one type of train not going means delays on all the others 09:42:09 *** Mortal [~mortal@217.61.144.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:42:18 <Celestar> Rubidium: in Germany, it doest. 09:42:25 <Celestar> I've got another ICE run on Sunday. let's hope it works out 09:42:28 <planetmaker> I know, Rubidium. But here... 09:42:45 <TrueBrain> doest ... that word can go two ways :) 09:42:46 <Celestar> Stuttgart-Airport Frankfurt-Aachen 09:43:05 <Celestar> and on Tuesday Aachen-Köln-MÃŒnchen-Pasing 09:43:29 <Celestar> first time I use an airport to change long-distance trains \o/ 09:43:33 <TrueBrain> oh, and hi all :) 09:43:42 <Celestar> hi 09:43:48 <planetmaker> Moin TrueBrain :) 09:43:58 <keyweed_> i use the airport to change from a bus to a train everyday. 09:44:17 <TrueBrain> would be fun if you use it to change from plane to train every day ;) 09:44:20 <TrueBrain> expensive :) 09:44:26 <Celestar> TrueBrain: I know people doing so. 09:44:31 *** petern [~petern@84.246.155.74] has joined #openttd 09:44:35 <Celestar> I friend of mine lives in Munich and works in Frankfurt 09:44:38 <keyweed_> they really got the multiple drive through bus stop thing under control at schiphol 09:44:51 <TrueBrain> Celestar: well, then again: expensive :) 09:45:03 <Celestar> TrueBrain: nope. He works for Lufthansa. 09:45:08 <TrueBrain> lol :) 09:45:18 <Celestar> the flights MUC-FRA are sometimes 50% or more LH employees. 09:45:47 <Celestar> I once had a flight on that route with 35 pilots, 52 flight attendents, 40 other staff and 3 "normal" passengers 09:45:56 <Char> rofl 09:46:09 <Char> how did you find out? 09:46:14 <Celestar> cuz I asked :P 09:46:22 <Celestar> and we counted :P 09:46:27 <Char> lol 09:46:57 <Celestar> and I delayed the flight 20 minutes cuz my flight from Osaka came late ^^ 09:47:09 <Char> :P 09:47:28 <TrueBrain> bah, it is one of those days ... I am completely bored .. 09:48:29 <Char> well 09:48:32 <Char> nothing to do? 09:48:34 <Char> no work? 09:48:42 <TrueBrain> not today 09:48:50 <Char> hmmm 09:48:54 <Char> do something useful 09:48:57 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat3.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 09:48:57 <Rubidium> noai ;) 09:48:59 <Char> tidy up your room 09:49:00 <Celestar> TrueBrain: help me write this damn paper 09:49:04 <TrueBrain> Celestar: sure :p 09:49:09 <Char> write a new computer game 09:49:10 <Celestar> TrueBrain: cancel write paper. set coding NoAI 09:49:26 <TrueBrain> NoAI (or more: NAIL), is a pain currently 09:49:34 <TrueBrain> finalizing and fixing darn bugs 09:49:39 <TrueBrain> well, I don't have to tell you with your cargodest ;) 09:49:58 <Char> celestar is doing cargodest? 09:50:05 <Celestar> yes 09:50:10 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: you are finalizing bugs? :D 09:50:13 <TrueBrain> well, not at the moment :p 09:50:13 <Char> hmmm 09:50:15 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: yes 09:50:17 <Char> you coded it? 09:50:21 <Char> thats good to know 09:50:48 <Celestar> er why? 09:50:56 <Celestar> so you can send me letterbombs if it doesn't work? :D 09:51:00 <TrueBrain> doesn't sound too friendly ;) 09:51:02 <Char> just in case i ever use it and things dont work properly 09:51:18 <TrueBrain> oh, and never to say: good job Celestar?! 09:51:20 <TrueBrain> how rude .. :p 09:51:28 <planetmaker> :P 09:51:31 <Celestar> hehe 09:51:33 <Char> lol 09:51:33 <Celestar> bah 09:51:40 <Celestar> forgot where to push to :S 09:51:47 <Celestar> and it's not in my history 09:51:51 <planetmaker> good job so far, ... all of you :) 09:51:58 <TrueBrain> some kind of ssh address :p 09:52:03 <Char> no, of course i would never say anyone has done a good job 09:52:09 <Char> :P 09:52:16 <Char> no seriously 09:52:21 <Char> just interested 09:52:24 <Char> in this stuff 09:52:34 <Char> actually wanted to try cargodest at some point 09:52:35 <TrueBrain> ssh://truebrain@secure.openttd.org//var/repos/hg/developers/truebrain/noai.hg <- Celestar: the push I use :p 09:52:43 * Rubidium wonders when Char's next show is ;) 09:52:45 <Celestar> TrueBrain: thanks 09:52:45 <TrueBrain> (mind the // ;)) 09:52:50 <Celestar> Rubidium: what show? 09:52:55 <Celestar> ok I've merge again :D 09:52:56 <TrueBrain> Char: The Medium 09:52:57 <Char> Rubidium: next show???? 09:53:01 <TrueBrain> he refers to I guess 09:53:03 *** Runr [~Runar@27.8.erx-lhm.eidsiva.net] has left #openttd [] 09:53:21 <Char> medium? 09:53:22 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: wow, you understood me :) 09:53:33 <Rubidium> Char: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Char_Margolis 09:53:33 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: yeah .. I start to understand how your mind works ;) 09:53:54 <Celestar> haha 09:54:00 <TrueBrain> wow, my new CPU is fast ... Gentoo up and running in 2 hours of compiling .. doesn't happen that much :p 09:54:07 <Char> weird 09:54:12 <TrueBrain> now it needs to bite itself into KDE .. that will take some time :) 09:54:25 <Celestar> I HATE Munich-Stuttgart :( 09:54:36 <Char> whys that? 09:54:56 <petern> hmm, how can i update blkids? 09:54:59 <Celestar> Stuttgart-Aachen: 2h 49mins. Aachen-Munich (via Stuttgart) 5h 20 mins 09:55:27 <Celestar> mind you: Stuttgart-Aachen is 450km and Stuttgart-Munich is 200km. 09:55:27 <Rubidium> Celestar: Munchen-Munster is way more interesting ;) 09:55:57 <Celestar> Rubidium: 6:34h 09:56:32 <Celestar> Rubidium: 4:30h from Munich to Bonn, and 2 hours from Boon to MÃŒnster :P 09:56:45 <Rubidium> Celestar: you could take a plane ;) 09:56:48 <Celestar> Rubidium: yes. 09:57:05 <Rubidium> and then the slow train to Enschede 09:57:46 <Celestar> flight is 75 minutes 09:57:55 <Rubidium> maybe we could then have a cargodest release party or so ;) 09:58:16 <Celestar> yeah 09:58:31 <Celestar> found a flight for 138 EUR 09:58:46 <Celestar> round trip 09:59:06 <Rubidium> sounds cheaper than the train 09:59:34 <Rubidium> assuming you don't have a reduction card of some kind 10:00:33 <Celestar> I have 10:00:55 <Celestar> IDIOTS: "Unknown foreign fare. Please book ticket at the service desk" 10:01:09 <Char> lol 10:01:14 <Celestar> I CAN book to Amsterdam 10:01:20 <Celestar> not Enschede 10:01:46 <Rubidium> Celestar: that's like... uhm... stupid ;) 10:02:38 <Celestar> yeah 10:02:42 <Celestar> let's try amsterday 10:02:54 <Rubidium> the German train runs up to Enschede station, complete with German signalling and safety systems and the track is completely seperate from the Dutch tracks 10:03:38 <Celestar> 228 EUR round trip to amsterdam. 10:03:44 <Celestar> including my reduction card 10:04:35 <Celestar> Dec 12 to Dec 14 10:04:55 <petern> hmm, people seem to say that swap should not be on raid-1... 10:05:10 <Rubidium> Enschede-Amsterdam is 36,70 without reduction round trip 10:05:15 <Gekz> petern: it sounds quite pointless to me 10:05:17 <Celestar> how long? 10:05:29 <Rubidium> 2:05 10:05:46 <petern> Gekz: for HA? 10:05:53 <Gekz> HA? 10:05:55 <Celestar> LOL 10:05:56 <Celestar> so 10:05:59 <petern> high availability 10:06:11 <Celestar> Train: Munich-Amsterdam: 240 EUR round trip, takes 7:30h each way 10:06:17 <petern> so when one drive dies, it's okay that it won't be able to swap stuff back in ? 10:06:31 <Celestar> Plane: Munich-Amsterdam: 89 EUR round trip, takes 1:30h each way 10:06:36 <Celestar> which would I chose? 10:06:47 <Gekz> petern: couldnt you just put swap on two drives 10:06:50 <Gekz> outside RAID 10:06:53 <Gekz> and activate both 10:06:55 <petern> i have got two drives 10:07:03 <Gekz> on the two drives* 10:07:12 <petern> how would that help in the event of a drive failure? 10:07:34 <Celestar> petern: disable swap? 10:07:36 <Gekz> swap would still exist. 10:07:37 <Gekz> lol 10:07:39 <Gekz> swap is pointless 10:07:41 <Gekz> I dont use it 10:08:08 <Rubidium> Celestar: looks like DB sends you via another route because it's marginally faster and that includes a few km of Dutch trains 10:08:10 <ln> *don't 10:08:20 <Rubidium> Celestar: how much is Munich-Hengelo? 10:08:39 *** mode/#openttd [+o petern] by ChanServ 10:08:57 <Celestar> Rubidium: Munich-MÃŒnster was about 200 EUR round trip ... 10:09:01 <petern> Gekz, ah, so you don't use it, so you don't know what you're talking about :D 10:09:18 <Gekz> oh burn 10:09:21 <Gekz> that's not true 10:09:24 <Gekz> I use it, just not on this system. 10:09:40 <Gekz> ln: contractions are old timer grammar. 10:09:49 <Celestar> Rubidium: 192 EUR to Hengelo 10:10:00 <Gekz> especially on the interwebs 10:10:36 <Celestar> Rubidium: still a far cry compared to the 89 EUR for the flight 10:11:05 <ln> Gekz: ok, then simply write "do not" instead of using contraction. 10:11:08 <Rubidium> +4 EUR for the local train 10:11:21 <Rubidium> and approximately 15 minutes extra 10:12:04 <Gekz> ln: I wont agree. 10:12:14 <Gekz> I can break my language how I see fit. 10:12:18 <Gekz> it is my native tongue. 10:12:28 <Gekz> I wont let foreigners do the same until they fully grasp it 10:12:31 <Gekz> \!/ 10:12:45 *** mode/#openttd [+q gekz!*@*] by petern 10:12:48 <petern> but we don't have to listen to it :D 10:13:20 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #openttd [] 10:13:26 *** Gekz_ [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:13:31 <Gekz_> how uncouth. 10:13:43 <ln> Gekz_: i think i graps english fully enough. 10:13:56 <Gekz_> graps you say. 10:14:03 <petern> quench evading! 10:14:12 *** mode/#openttd [-q gekz!*@*] by petern 10:14:15 <Gekz_> evading what 10:14:17 <Gekz_> lol 10:14:19 *** Gekz_ is now known as Gekz 10:14:24 <Gekz> its a nuisance and nothing more 10:15:45 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host124-61-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:15:57 <Wolf01> hello 10:16:32 <TrueBrain> hi Wolf01 10:17:43 <TrueBrain> I can live with SPAM, I have SPAM filter ... but what annoys me the most, if when spammers start to use my address as From ... those idiotic bounce mails :( 10:18:15 <Celestar> block all e-mails that have you addy as from? 10:18:16 <Celestar> ;) 10:19:09 <TrueBrain> stupid Gentoo .. made OpenTTD ebuild EAPI=2, which is NOT yet stable for all platforms ... let them test those things on other packages :p 10:19:55 <Rubidium> for all or for any? 10:20:09 <petern> EAPI=2? 10:20:11 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:27 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: dunno .. 'rc22' .. guess any ;) 10:20:31 <TrueBrain> petern: some new standard for their scripts 10:22:38 *** eMJay [~michael@58.175.181.122] has joined #openttd 10:25:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.216.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:09 <TrueBrain> kde-meta:4.1 .... 467 packages :p 10:32:09 <TrueBrain> lol 10:32:37 <Char> i need a train set for the ECS vectors 10:32:45 <Char> actually i would like to use the standard train set 10:32:55 <Char> but that one does not support the ECS cargoes.... 10:35:42 <Rubidium> there's a newgrf somewhat that adds ecs support to the original vehicle (IIRC) 10:35:59 <Rubidium> s/what/where/ 10:36:19 <Ammler> oldvehicels-newcargos.grf from pikka 10:36:42 <Ammler> Char: check ECS wiki. 10:37:41 <TrueBrain> I love this country .. 10:37:56 <TrueBrain> we are getting RFID passes to get into public service stuff (trains, busses, ...) 10:37:59 <Char> i couldnt find it in ecs wiki 10:38:03 <TrueBrain> now it is long known that the cards are broken 10:38:07 <TrueBrain> as in: easy to hack 10:38:25 <TrueBrain> last week an article was published where a person could copy his card with just 150 euro of hardware 10:38:43 <TrueBrain> today they made it final that in Rotterdam it is the required thing to have in 2009 10:38:45 * Rubidium wonders why hacking those cards is *such* a big issue... 10:39:01 <TrueBrain> I really wonder how many people will never buy a real ticket ... 10:39:17 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:39:22 <keyweed_> it isn't. companies deploying a seriously flawed system IS a big issue 10:39:29 <Char> ah found it 10:39:59 <TrueBrain> it just smells like Microsoft. The OS contains known security issues .. well .. release it anyway .. call it Windows XP 10:40:11 <TrueBrain> or: this OS contains serious stability problems .. well .. release it anyway .. call it Windows ME 10:40:18 <Rubidium> keyweed_: the Japanese are using a similar system which is broken too, but nobody complains there 10:40:25 <TrueBrain> I mean, come on ... are the people leading this country really that stupid? 10:40:35 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: the Japanese system is not as broken as the Dutch system :) 10:40:50 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: are you sure? 10:40:52 <TrueBrain> we now use an encryption which was first marketed in .. 1985 I believe 10:41:02 <TrueBrain> how outdated can you be? 10:41:18 <keyweed_> Rubidium: the dutch system is absurdly broken, from DOS attacks, identity theft, free travel. all you need is a 30 dollar card writern and the skills of a 14 year olds script kiddie 10:41:42 <TrueBrain> keyweed_: well, not really that black and white .. as it took a IT student a bit mroe money and time to do it correctly ;) 10:42:32 <keyweed_> TrueBrain: true, saves the script kiddies a lot of work though. as soon as keys start getting published on the internet things will start getting interesting 10:42:45 <TrueBrain> keyweed_: already done 10:42:45 <TrueBrain> :p 10:42:49 <Rubidium> keyweed_: broken yes, but the Japanese version is equally flawed if not more flawed 10:42:59 <TrueBrain> the paper published, includes detailed information on how to make a copy 10:43:02 <TheMask97> TrueBrain: isn't there a way for them to know the card is hacked? I wonder how many people are actually going to hack the card if there is a risk they will be caught... 10:43:04 <TrueBrain> and keys are already there to be found ;) 10:43:07 <keyweed_> but hell. eventually they'll see their mistake and fix it by spending more tax dollars then an earlier fix would have cost. 10:43:25 <ln> *than 10:43:29 <TrueBrain> keyweed_: yeah ... that is what I am afraid of :( 10:43:35 <Rubidium> as in the Japanese version I can just walk through the gate without a card 10:43:39 <keyweed_> TheMask97: there is nu realy difference between a hacked card and the original 10:43:40 <TrueBrain> TheMask97: you can flash it back on your original card, so it is pretty hard to detect ;) 10:43:46 <keyweed_> *not really a 10:43:47 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: that is a flaw on a completely different level 10:44:11 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: really? 10:44:19 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: like we here now talk about a lock of a window that is easy to pick .. and you tell us that the front door is open 10:44:26 <TrueBrain> sure, it is also a problem, but not related on that level :) 10:44:35 <TheMask97> TrueBrain: lol :) 10:44:44 <Rubidium> and identity theft is just stupid design 10:45:06 <keyweed_> stupid design is the norm these days 10:45:12 <TheMask97> TrueBrain: well I guess I've have to buy the hardware for 150 euro then ;) although I hardly ever travel by public transport 10:45:22 <TrueBrain> but okay, I now hope they roll out the OVChip very fast over the completely country ... then I can travel for free for life 10:45:45 <TrueBrain> TheMask97: soon you can buy those chips online for a few bucks :p 10:46:10 <keyweed_> http://www.scdeveloper.com/combiwatch.htm 39.95 mifare programmable watch 10:46:34 <Rubidium> oh... not to mention that you can run a ovchipcard like application on your (Japanese) mobile phone 10:46:47 <TrueBrain> "He! I have a cool idea! Lets make a chip where people can travel with throughout the country" -- "Yes, good idea! But .. to save a few bucks, lets use that old standard we are using for ages already, it is so stable ... 16bit key, that is enough, not?" 10:46:52 <Rubidium> and go through the gates with that 10:46:58 <Rubidium> or pay at shops with the same system 10:47:05 <Char> hmmm 10:47:10 <Char> i got a question 10:47:17 <Char> in the DB XL train set 10:47:26 <Char> there are wagons which are different in length 10:47:39 <Char> they are not half a tile long but a little shorter or longer 10:48:01 <TheMask97> lol :) 10:48:05 <Char> how do i know how long my train is with such wagons? 10:48:07 <Char> i mean 10:48:13 <Char> how do in know if it fits into a station? 10:48:21 <Char> which is for example 6 tiles long 10:48:32 <Rubidium> you see that number thingy in the depot? 10:48:34 <keyweed_> look at your train listing and compare it to one of your standard length trains? 10:48:48 <Char> i do see that number thingy, yes 10:48:51 <Rubidium> divide that by 2 rounding upwards and you know how many tiles it is 10:49:04 <Char> no 10:49:12 <Char> cause it just counts the wagons 10:49:19 <Char> but if the wagons are different in length 10:49:35 *** fjb_ is now known as fjb 10:49:36 <Char> i got a 9-wagon train which is definitely shorter than another 10-wagon train 10:49:54 <Char> aeh 10:49:55 <Char> longer 10:54:31 <Rubidium> Char: http://rbijker.net/openttd/is_it_really_counting_wagons.png ? 10:55:01 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: talking about "hidden" features :p 10:55:50 <Celestar> stupid phone polls :S 10:56:20 <Rubidium> Celestar: http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/18691/a5d96678/telefoon_spam_prank.html <- the answer to phone polls 10:56:29 <Gekz> Rubidium: what platform is that? 10:56:41 <Char> eird 10:56:44 <Char> weird 10:56:50 <Char> but thanks Rubidium 10:59:23 <TrueBrain> it streams really poor Rubidium .... :( 10:59:49 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.203] has joined #openttd 11:00:06 <Celestar> Rubidium: hilarious 11:01:08 <Celestar> this one apparently wanted to sell diet food or something. Her: "Are you male or female". Me: "What do I sound like?". Her: "Male". Me: "Good. so let's suppose I'm male". "How tall are you?" "1755 millimeters" . "er what?" .. "1.755 meters" "ok .. then what's your weight?" .. 11:01:51 <Celestar> "You mean my weight or my mass" "Mass, then" "Well, that depends" "on what?" "On my velocity" "I don't understand" "Clearly" "<beep beep beep>" 11:02:03 <TrueBrain> nasty :p 11:02:10 <Celestar> who me? 11:02:13 * Celestar whistles 11:02:25 <TrueBrain> I can't get that movie of Rubidium read past 1:15 .. 11:02:29 <Celestar> pity 11:03:02 <Celestar> because it's great 11:03:07 <Celestar> I've gotta try that once 11:03:31 <TrueBrain> would be nice to try that, yes ;) 11:04:23 <TrueBrain> finally it loaded completely 11:07:01 <SmatZ> hehe 11:09:36 <Celestar> geographically speaking... 11:10:18 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat3.arachne.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:11:53 *** petern [~petern@84.246.155.74] has quit [Quit: raided] 11:28:21 *** Mortal [~mortal@217.61.144.15] has joined #openttd 11:34:13 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:34:25 *** petern [~petern@84.246.155.74] has joined #openttd 11:34:26 *** mode/#openttd [+o petern] by ChanServ 11:34:38 <TrueBrain> petern: how was the raid? 11:35:03 <petern> done 11:35:12 <petern> /dev/md/3 427G 5687M 400G 1.3 [ ] /home 11:35:27 <TrueBrain> hehe 11:37:39 <petern> of course, now i have a spare 80GB IDE drive 11:39:00 <Rubidium> use it for swap ;) 11:39:11 <TrueBrain> lol 11:39:17 <TrueBrain> I don't even have a swap ... :p 11:39:31 <Rubidium> then you can run lighttpd unattended on it for a few weeks ;) 11:39:37 <TrueBrain> hahahaha :) 11:39:53 <Rubidium> or use it for apache's rewrite logs 11:40:14 <Celestar> apache isn't that hungry, at least for me 11:40:24 <TrueBrain> Apache is VERY hungry 11:40:26 <TrueBrain> in general 11:40:33 * petern is running lighttpd... :o 11:40:48 <TrueBrain> and lighttpd is for us, because of the amount of requests per second, and his cache handler :p 11:41:04 <Celestar> heh 11:41:58 <Rubidium> Celestar: Apache's rewrite logs can fairly easily cause a denial-of-service 11:42:10 <SpComb> so disable rewrite logs 11:42:17 <SpComb> or more percisely, don't forget to turn them off 11:42:20 * SpComb wonders if he has them turned on 11:42:41 <Celestar> don't rewrite :P 11:42:44 <Rubidium> rewrite logs grow about 20 times faster than the access logs 11:45:00 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: but I guess you can disable all logs for WT2 anyway :p 11:45:32 <Celestar> has there been any contact with Mihamix btw? 11:45:33 <SpComb> I've never used lighty's caching 11:45:43 <TrueBrain> Celestar: plenty; why you ask? 11:45:45 <SpComb> but the HTTP proxy loads everything into memory, which is silly 11:45:49 <Celestar> TrueBrain: just wondering 11:45:53 <Celestar> @seen Mihamix 11:45:53 <DorpsGek> Celestar: Mihamix was last seen in #openttd 41 weeks, 2 days, 15 hours, 24 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <MiHaMiX> s/t$/d/ 11:45:55 <TrueBrain> SpComb: you use it, if you want it or not 11:45:57 <Celestar> cuz of that (= 11:46:16 <TrueBrain> Celestar: hehe :) We arranged everything that was needed :) 11:46:23 <SpComb> TrueBrain: iirc, my lighty doesn't do any caching 11:46:27 <SpComb> of content, at least 11:46:39 <TrueBrain> SpComb: it does; it caches the content before sending it to the client 11:46:43 <TrueBrain> then it frees it again 11:46:49 <SpComb> hmm 11:46:54 <TrueBrain> but if you have 100 people requesting 100 files, you have those files in your cache 11:46:55 <TrueBrain> or memory 11:46:56 <SpComb> what content? Some cgi? 11:46:58 <TrueBrain> what ever youw ant to call it ;) 11:47:02 <TrueBrain> any file 11:47:17 <TrueBrain> problem is that it never frees that memory (as it can't) 11:47:33 <TrueBrain> so when you get 1000 people in 1 sec, it uses, say, 100 MiB of RAM 11:47:33 <TrueBrain> now when it stays below 1000 people, you are fine 11:47:35 <SpComb> it would be very stupid of lighty to load the entire contents of every file into it's own memory 11:47:39 <TrueBrain> but if you get 2000 people later, it grows 11:47:40 <SpComb> as the kernel does that already 11:48:43 <TrueBrain> it tries to mmap most things, as far as I understand 11:48:52 <TrueBrain> but proxy requests it obvious can't :) 11:49:21 <SpComb> ah, you're talking about lighty proxing requests to another server, not serving it up from the filesystem? 11:49:47 <TrueBrain> I believe only static file serving is unaffected, yes 11:49:55 <TrueBrain> (and that even depends on your mode ;)) 11:50:02 <SpComb> right, I thought you were talking about local static files 11:51:02 <TrueBrain> there are 3 modes I believe for static files 11:51:09 <TrueBrain> mmap, some kernel passthrough, and a buffer method 11:51:16 <TrueBrain> the first two should be fine .. the last not ;) 11:51:41 <SpComb> http://redmine.lighttpd.net/repositories/entry/lighttpd/trunk/src/network_linux_sendfile.c <-- that's the default backend 11:52:20 <SpComb> but those all handle only MEM_CHUNK and FILE_CHUNKs, and I guess HTTP request proxying is handled by MEM_CHUNKs 11:52:26 <SpComb> -> don't use lighttpd as a http proxy, it sucks at it 11:53:05 <TrueBrain> it works just fine; just it consumes a terrible amount of memory if you are out of luck 11:53:50 <SpComb> if you download a 700MB file through a lighttpd-proxy, it consumes 700MB of memory 11:54:02 <TrueBrain> (and the amount of hits on the httpd is a bit .. insane, for OpenTTD ;)) 11:54:34 <TrueBrain> not in 1.5 11:54:41 <TrueBrain> (I dunno about 1.4) 11:58:02 <TrueBrain> Redmine is a nice bugtracker :) 12:01:54 <TrueBrain> http://redmine.lighttpd.net/issues/show/758#note-31 <- finally found the description of the problem :) 12:04:35 <TrueBrain> but SpComb, maybe you are right, and we should place yet an other httpd in front of apache and lighttpd (and with that, in front of gitweb, hgweb, tracd, and some others) 12:04:41 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 12:04:45 <TrueBrain> then again ... hgweb and tracd leak in the same way 12:05:02 <TrueBrain> www-data 24010 0.1 14.6 368752 117016 ? S Oct19 25:36 /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/tracd 12:05:08 <TrueBrain> www-data 27295 0.1 15.8 264232 126984 ? Ss Sep27 56:46 /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/hg serve 12:05:26 <TrueBrain> tracd is running for 11 days, and using 117MiB of RAM ... 12:05:53 <TrueBrain> burst-malloc-no-free approach :p 12:06:11 <TrueBrain> who needs a garbage collector anyway .. 12:06:57 <petern> SMART Usage Attribute: 194 Temperature_Celsius changed 12:06:57 <petern> from 122 to 126 12:07:01 <petern> that is clearly a lie 12:07:08 <TrueBrain> petern: or it is REALLY hot in there 12:07:15 <SmatZ> :-) 12:07:19 <TrueBrain> petern: you can bake an egg on that thing! 12:07:32 <TrueBrain> 145 of 423 packages emerged ... sigh ... 12:07:47 <petern> hddtemp says ~25 deg C 12:08:02 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: enjoy your emerge -e world ;-) 12:08:14 <TrueBrain> what does -e do .. 12:08:22 <TrueBrain> but no, emerging @kdebase and friends (4.1) 12:09:07 <TrueBrain> emptytree ... lol 12:09:39 <SmatZ> :) 12:09:52 <SmatZ> reemerges everything in your system 12:10:01 <TrueBrain> I wonder when ever that is useful :p 12:10:02 <SpComb> if you're doing domain-based-hosting across multiple daemons, then a dedicated proxy makes sense 12:10:05 <SmatZ> good when you upgrade gcc or glibc or so 12:10:11 <SmatZ> or change CFLAGS 12:10:16 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 12:10:17 <SpComb> or just run everything with lighttpd and FastCGI 12:10:30 <TrueBrain> SpComb: most things are 12:10:54 <TrueBrain> a few things are proxied away, like WT2 (on different VPS), and some stuff that only works under apache 12:11:08 <TrueBrain> then it turned out hg and fastcgi leak even more 12:11:11 <TrueBrain> so that was proxied too 12:11:20 <TrueBrain> then trac had the same issue (python fastcgi module problem) 12:11:24 <TrueBrain> so proxied too 12:11:29 <TrueBrain> (most things are = most things were) 12:11:32 <SpComb> heh 12:11:40 <TrueBrain> gitweb is the only one doing its job right 12:12:00 <TrueBrain> django had the same work .. but then again: also python 12:12:09 <TrueBrain> so now we have more proxies then fastcgi ;) 12:12:11 <SpComb> it would be interesting to know what's causing it 12:12:19 <TrueBrain> Python garbage collector fucking up 12:12:44 <SpComb> maybe 12:12:48 <TrueBrain> no, I am sure 12:12:49 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: COCKBUSTER SLEEP MODE] 12:12:55 <SpComb> fucking up in what way? 12:13:02 <TrueBrain> not freeing up the memory 12:13:06 <TrueBrain> slowly eating more and more memory 12:13:09 <SpComb> cyclical references? 12:13:13 <TrueBrain> (EVERY page load increased the memory with 12 kib :p) 12:13:24 <TrueBrain> kiB 12:13:42 <TrueBrain> the thread instance is never considered free'd 12:13:44 <SpComb> I'm just sure it's possible to write python code that doesn't exhibit those problems 12:13:48 <TrueBrain> so a missing DelRef() I guess :p 12:14:03 <SpComb> so it would be interesting to know exactly what is going wrong 12:14:06 <TrueBrain> I couldn't find a fastcgi module that didn't showed the same problem 12:14:35 <TrueBrain> well, wsgi 12:14:37 <TrueBrain> but okay ;) 12:14:44 * SpComb leaves 12:14:49 <TrueBrain> have a good day :) 12:14:58 *** welshdragon [~vista@87.102.21.185] has joined #openttd 12:15:11 <TrueBrain> and if you ever have the time, find out what goes wrong exactly, and fix it :p I couldn't trace it (to deep inside Python) 12:17:49 <SmatZ> Exception in thread "OutputReader" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded 12:17:56 <SmatZ> I wonder what is advantage of Java then 12:19:07 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 12:19:11 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g229211044.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 12:20:20 <TrueBrain> I wonder that in general 12:32:02 <Celestar> life. sucks. 12:32:57 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14547 /trunk/src/ (oldpool.h oldpool_func.h order_cmd.cpp): -Fix: order pool seemed to look full when it was not as it only checked whether it was possible to allocate a new block of pool items instead of checking for free pool items. 12:33:45 <petern> hm 12:34:20 <mikl> Let us eat Cake(PHP) and drink Java, before the Python eats us⊠12:35:05 <NukeBuster> is there any way to supress error messages from a docommand? 12:35:35 <Rubidium> why would you want to do that? 12:35:42 <NukeBuster> as soon as it hits an error it gives a general error and stops resuming the function 12:36:03 <Rubidium> huh? 12:36:40 <NukeBuster> Im busy with the diagonal clearing patch... but discoverd for the rectangular clearing that the same stuff was also being handled by docommand 12:36:53 <ln> *I'm 12:37:11 <NukeBuster> but when i use docommand in a loop.... it doesn't return to my loop when it hits an error... 12:38:05 <NukeBuster> I'll upload a screenshot 12:39:23 <NukeBuster> where does it put that in linux? 12:40:32 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater57.hku.nl] has joined #openttd 12:40:35 <SmatZ> paste.openttd.org 12:40:42 <SmatZ> ahh screenshot... 12:40:45 <SmatZ> I don't know 12:40:45 <NukeBuster> :) 12:41:44 <Gekz> ~/.openttd/Screenshots 12:41:45 <Gekz> afaik 12:42:01 <eMJay> Gekz and NukeBuster, that's where mine go 12:42:25 <SmatZ> mine do to ~/.openttd 12:42:32 <NukeBuster> hidden 12:42:48 <eMJay> NukeBuster: unless you're pressing the printscrn button , in which case it should go to the clipboard... 12:43:06 <eMJay> (although, gnome prompts me where I want to save screen shots....) 12:43:12 <NukeBuster> no I used ctrl-s 12:43:16 <NukeBuster> got it 12:45:45 <NukeBuster> http://www.wlsweb.net/images/K2.png 12:45:55 <NukeBuster> http://paste.openttd.org/143563 12:46:36 <SmatZ> AddCost sets CmdFailed iirc 12:46:41 <SmatZ> so maybe it is the problem 12:47:46 <NukeBuster> can I undo that somehow? 12:47:58 <NukeBuster> because it replaced this code which should not be nessecery 12:48:07 <NukeBuster> http://paste.openttd.org/143564 12:48:19 <NukeBuster> because docommand already checks if there is enough money 12:49:35 <Rubidium> NukeBuster: the original code clears as much as it can, the "new" code clears all or nothing 12:50:19 <NukeBuster> yeah thats true 12:50:29 <NukeBuster> but thats why i want to supress that error msg 12:51:28 <ln> *that's 12:51:38 <NukeBuster> it's almost the same code in cmd_levelland 12:51:44 <NukeBuster> *cmdlevelland 12:51:54 <petern> also 12:52:03 <petern> *suppress, *message 12:52:08 <NukeBuster> http://paste.openttd.org/143569 12:52:11 <dih> ln: that behaviour got people banned yesterday 12:52:16 <NukeBuster> Thanks :) 12:52:36 <petern> that was yesterday, this is today 12:52:40 <ln> dih: I'm safe. 12:53:11 <SmatZ> NukeBuster: use cost.AddCost(DoCommand(blabla).GetCost) or so 12:53:45 <SmatZ> or yeah, use if (CmdFailed(ret)) continue 12:53:52 <SmatZ> but this way you set CmdFailed 12:54:02 <NukeBuster> ok 12:54:08 *** Slowpoke [~Lobster@91-66-241-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 12:54:33 <NukeBuster> if that works it would still save 10 lines 12:54:37 <NukeBuster> of duplication 12:54:42 * dih steps aside 12:55:00 <SmatZ> Slowpoke is slow 12:55:15 <dih> :-) 12:55:57 <SmatZ> [13:53:11] <SmatZ> NukeBuster: use cost.AddCost(DoCommand(blabla).GetCost) or so <== probably bad solution 12:56:04 * dih shuffles the chars and finds pokeslow 12:56:11 <SmatZ> :-) 12:56:15 <SmatZ> hehe 12:56:16 *** welshdragon [~vista@87.102.21.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:56:28 <NukeBuster> so this should give the error through also? cost.AddCost(ret); 12:56:50 <NukeBuster> it should be cost.AddCost(ret.GetCost); ? 12:56:57 <SmatZ> if ret failed then, this will make cost failed too 12:57:03 <SmatZ> if ret didn't fail, then it's ok 12:57:18 <SmatZ> [13:53:45] <SmatZ> or yeah, use if (CmdFailed(ret)) continue <== this way you won't add failed ret 12:57:38 <SmatZ> sorry gtg 12:57:45 <dih> co 12:57:46 <NukeBuster> cya 12:57:51 <Slowpoke> what? :o I'm not slow! 12:58:20 <NukeBuster> i thought that skipped to the next loop? 12:58:58 <dih> 13:59 < Slowpoke> what? :o I'm not slow! <- even that comment was late... 12:59:54 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-69-27.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 13:00:12 *** Mortal [~mortal@217.61.144.15] has quit [Quit: [FATAL] Client error: Memory leak - More RAM needed. More! More! More!] 13:01:47 <NukeBuster> Thanks guys, that seems to have solved it :) 13:02:01 <NukeBuster> That will save a few lines of duplication 13:02:16 <Slowpoke> no it was not. 13:04:45 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:05:45 *** eMJay [~michael@58.175.181.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:35 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 13:07:19 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl8-52-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:10:24 <Belugas> gosh .... you all do talk a lot ... 9 hours of stuff i do not have the time to look over... 13:10:32 <Belugas> hello 13:10:33 <Belugas> all 13:10:33 <TrueBrain> 233 our of 424 .. 13:10:36 <TrueBrain> hi Belugas :) 13:10:49 <Belugas> dih, you're strange guy, hugging me all of a sudden ;) 13:10:51 <NukeBuster> hi Belugas :) 13:10:53 <Belugas> hello TrueBrain 13:10:56 <Belugas> and you too NukeBuster 13:13:10 <dih> Belugas: a dev a day ;-) 13:13:23 <dih> (at least a...) 13:23:33 <NukeBuster> is it possible to force thiss check to execute when calling a DoCommand? 13:24:07 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.167.129.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd 13:24:22 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:55 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater57.hku.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:25:26 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater56.hku.nl] has joined #openttd 13:25:51 * Celestar goes barricading his office door 13:28:17 <Celestar> heh 13:28:29 <Celestar> now why does this 2.5" USB drive have two connectors? 13:28:49 <NukeBuster> http://paste.openttd.org/143588 13:30:06 <Celestar> NukeBuster: what am I seeing? 13:31:16 <NukeBuster> is it possible to force this when calling a DoCommand? 13:31:32 <Belugas> it looks like code from OpenTTD to me, but out of context, it could be anything :) 13:31:52 <NukeBuster> posted the question 5 min earlier 13:31:54 <NukeBuster> sorry 13:32:21 <NukeBuster> it should check the available money, shouldn't it? 13:34:48 <Char> i feel so unmotivated... :/ 13:34:52 <Celestar> he 13:34:54 <Celestar> welcome to the club 13:34:55 <Belugas> NukeBuster, i'm sorry, but is it a diff or is it the actual code? 13:35:07 <NukeBuster> actual code 13:35:35 <NukeBuster> it's from the DoCommand function 13:36:01 <NukeBuster> I was trying to fight some duplicated code... because it looks like DoCommand checks available money itself 13:36:27 <Belugas> Char, have you step over your stupidity mode of yesterday actually had a go at reading the forums on ECS? 13:37:12 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater56.hku.nl] has quit [Quit: COCKBUSTER SLEEP MODE] 13:37:24 <Char> Belugas: i found out everything i need, yes 13:37:28 <Belugas> NukeBuster, am i under the impression that you think that all commands are money related? 13:37:36 <Belugas> good, Char :) proud of you 13:38:50 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:38:51 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:39:04 <NukeBuster> no they probably aren't 13:39:38 <NukeBuster> but the line !CheckCompanyHasMoney(res)) gives me the idea that the function does have the check for it... 13:40:23 <Char> Belugas: i am proud of me as well :P 13:40:28 <Rubidium> NukeBuster: any idea how complex the clear function actually is w.r.t. to payment? 13:40:29 <Char> no, actually not, but whatever 13:40:30 <Belugas> and what do you see just 2-3 lines above, NukeBuster? 13:40:59 <NukeBuster> checks if not bankruptand if not cost query? 13:41:26 <NukeBuster> but the _docommand_recursive stuff strikes me... 13:43:48 <Belugas> So it seems yu have not yet grasp all the internals of the command handling :) 13:43:56 <NukeBuster> Rubidium: Well the 3 lines i just removed seemed to do nothing with cost estimation, the only problem now is that when there isn't enough money the command doesn't fail... And i thought i had seen that in the DoCommand function. 13:44:35 <NukeBuster> you have spam on your paste.openttd.org btw. 13:45:03 <Rubidium> no kidding ;) 13:45:44 <NukeBuster> but the DoCommand is or isn't able to check if there is enough money available? 13:47:22 <NukeBuster> http://docs.openttd.org/command_8cpp-source.html#l00388 13:48:25 <Rubidium> clearing land is a tricky function for which cost estimation is basically impossible 13:48:33 <Char> btw 13:48:43 <Char> has any of you guys ever played locomotion? 13:49:24 <NukeBuster> strange thing though if _docommand_recursive ==0 -> error; then it gets 1 added; then it checks for _docommand_recursive==1 13:49:28 <NukeBuster> which cannot happen 13:49:40 <NukeBuster> because if you had set it to 1 it would be 2 at the check 13:50:00 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 13:50:26 <Belugas> Char, i did, and i did not liked it much enough to switch over 13:50:28 <Rubidium> NukeBuster: I can't follow your thoughts 13:50:35 *** ecke_ [~ecke@pc150-227.upce.cz] has joined #openttd 13:50:52 <Belugas> Rubidium, i've disconnected a while ago, already :) 13:51:19 <NukeBuster> http://paste.openttd.org/143603 13:52:35 <NukeBuster> I'm trying to reduce code duplication by the way. 13:52:59 <Rubidium> FYI: line 400 clears the error state 13:53:17 <NukeBuster> ah 13:53:34 <NukeBuster> so I'd just set _docommand_recursive to 0 then 13:53:38 <Char> Belugas: i tried it as well, but for some reason it did not have the same feel 13:53:53 <Rubidium> NukeBuster: no, you should not touch that variable at all 13:54:19 <NukeBuster> hmm 13:56:50 *** ecke_ [~ecke@pc150-227.upce.cz] has quit [Quit: ecke_] 13:59:37 <Belugas> Char, one thing i noted: Locomotion was aimed at been more realistic then TTD. Could be. But it was also less fun. I think that's what started my "reflection" on realism 14:00:27 <ln> *than 14:00:36 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-186-222.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:01:00 <ln> Locomotion had some nice improvements, but then it is too much like building rollercoasters. 14:01:48 <Celestar> yeah, and many things sucked ass 14:02:07 <Celestar> Belugas: Locomotion was more realistic? where? 14:02:34 <Celestar> I didn't find anything that was more realistic in Locomotion 14:02:43 *** ecke_ [~ecke@pc150-227.upce.cz] has joined #openttd 14:02:47 <Celestar> except maybe real curves. Which was about the only good thing. 14:03:10 <Belugas> well.. mostly the graphics indeed 14:03:15 <Celestar> yeah 14:03:22 <Celestar> which didn't really look all that great :P 14:03:29 <Celestar> there weren't even depots 14:04:19 <Celestar> the pathfinder was worse than anything ottd ever had, and the AI sucked even more than in TTO 14:07:05 <ln> list of nice things in Locomotion, compared to (O)TTD: underground tracks and stations, underwater tunnels, the local/express setting for individual trains 14:07:35 *** ecke_ [~ecke@pc150-227.upce.cz] has quit [] 14:07:38 <Celestar> 1) yes but interface sucked ass, 2) ok, 3) nice 14:08:11 <Celestar> and a 384*384 map slowed my Athlon 1800+ to a crawl back then. 14:08:12 <ln> the UI for building underground stuff sucks badly if there are buildings above or near. also true for building tramways. 14:08:31 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 14:08:46 <Celestar> whereas openttd runs a 1k x 1k nicely with cargodest and 300 trains on my Pentium M locked to 600MHz 14:09:07 <Belugas> underground stuff idea was indeed apprealing, ln, but badly presented 14:09:11 <Belugas> there has to be a better way 14:09:22 <Celestar> there was 14:09:31 <Celestar> I've done one in the map rewrite 14:09:33 <Celestar> (= 14:09:35 <Celestar> it's still there. 14:09:37 <Celestar> somewhere 14:09:57 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 14:10:01 <Celestar> you could use it to "slice" the landscape 14:11:59 <Celestar> ln: I've always asked myself where there wasn't just a button to switch between underground and overground view. 14:12:00 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:12:11 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 14:12:13 <Celestar> in openttd, we could just have an additional viewport for underground view ;) 14:12:21 <Celestar> which is coordinate-locked with the main viewport or so 14:12:28 <Celestar> so you can see where you're at (= 14:12:45 <ln> yeah, a separate underground mode would have helped a lot. 14:13:35 <ln> i was kind of hoping they would release an update to fix undergound UI, but i guess there isn't one. 14:14:16 <ln> the first (and only?) update released fixes some severe issues such as german version showing "Insert CD" in english, or something like that. 14:15:48 <Celestar> yeah 14:15:57 <Celestar> but I loved the tracks 14:16:03 <Celestar> they looked like real tracks 14:16:11 <Celestar> multi-tile curves :D 14:16:27 <ln> also stations on bridges is a nice feature. 14:18:42 *** batti5 [~batti5@92.82.85.122] has joined #openttd 14:22:07 <Celestar> yeah 14:22:19 <Celestar> or below bridge, even though we could do that now 14:22:40 <Celestar> we just need to graphical restrictions for those bridges and/or stations 14:26:15 <Celestar> same for crossing bridges 14:26:21 <Celestar> which might really add to the game :D 14:26:41 <Celestar> hm .. 14000 context switches per second on the server. 14:26:44 <Celestar> not bad :P 14:28:04 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 14:32:49 *** Slowpoke [~Lobster@91-66-241-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:56 <TrueBrain> 289 / 423 ... sigh .. 14:37:21 <Sacro> !calc 289 / 423 14:37:25 <Sacro> @calc 289 / 423 14:37:25 <DorpsGek> Sacro: 0.683215130024 14:40:32 <NukeBuster> DC_EXEC is not set when doing a cost estimation? 14:41:05 <TrueBrain> that is the idea of DC_EXEC ... 14:41:41 <NukeBuster> thanks. 14:41:53 <TrueBrain> read the documentation .. for a chance it is pretty clear ;) 14:42:21 <TrueBrain> hmm .. KDE packages gives a % complete per CC line .. how nice ;) 14:42:32 <TrueBrain> [ 79%] Building CXX object ksystemlog/src/modes/postfix/CMakeFiles/ksystemlog_postfix.dir/postfixAnalyzer.o 14:42:32 <TrueBrain> [ 80%] Building CXX object ksystemlog/src/modes/apache/CMakeFiles/ksystemlog_apache.dir/apacheAccessAnalyzer.o 14:42:39 <TrueBrain> Ithink OpenTTD needs it too :p 14:42:40 <TrueBrain> hehe 14:43:02 <NukeBuster> make a progress bar while you are at it ;) 14:43:08 <glx> how can they estimate that? 14:43:12 <TrueBrain> glx: no idea 14:43:17 <TrueBrain> I guess it only works for a clean build 14:43:19 <NukeBuster> number of cpp files? 14:43:32 <glx> possible 14:44:14 <glx> but openttd builds files in alphabetic order so it's easy to estimate 14:44:31 <TrueBrain> what has the alphabet has to do with it? :) 14:44:36 <NukeBuster> progress bar would be possible too then? 14:45:04 <glx> you know how much is needed approximatively by looking at the filename 14:45:14 <TrueBrain> glx: ah :) A counter would be better ;) 14:45:14 <TrueBrain> hehe 14:45:19 <TrueBrain> NukeBuster: it has no additional value really .. 14:46:40 <NukeBuster> progress bar releaves stress :P 14:46:52 <NukeBuster> makes people more patient 14:47:32 <TrueBrain> in this case I agree with glx: the list is on alphabet, so just try to 'count' to Z, and you are fine too 14:47:49 <NukeBuster> nice idea 14:48:47 <glx> and complinig openttd is not that slow 14:48:49 <Belugas> i wonder if anyone has tested my version of fund_town stuff... 14:48:52 <NukeBuster> true 14:48:58 <TrueBrain> 'not that slow' .. lol :p 14:49:17 <glx> compared to wxwidgets or even gcc 14:49:27 <thingwath> comparing to any larger C++ KDE application... it is extremely fast :o) 14:49:47 <TrueBrain> glx: why would OpenTTD compare to GCC? :p 14:49:48 <TrueBrain> haha 14:50:06 <TrueBrain> I mean ... my drinking glass is smaller than an office building 14:50:12 <TrueBrain> nevertheless, my drinking glass is HUGE 14:50:25 <TrueBrain> (0.5L in this case) 14:50:33 <NukeBuster> found a bug in 14539 14:50:39 <glx> upgrade :) 14:50:47 <glx> then retry 14:50:50 <NukeBuster> cost estimation on level area returns a blank box 14:51:12 <NukeBuster> thought it was my doing 14:51:23 <NukeBuster> so tried a clean checkout 14:51:23 <TrueBrain> 305 / 423 ... 14:51:36 <TrueBrain> 1 per minute on avage .. 14:51:44 <TrueBrain> leaves almost 2 hours on the clock .. 14:51:47 <NukeBuster> compiling.... 14:54:32 <NukeBuster> [15:48:49] <glx> and complinig openttd is not that slow <- lol 14:54:45 <NukeBuster> still busy 14:55:19 <NukeBuster> bug is still there 14:55:28 <NukeBuster> I'm going to try and fix it 14:56:26 <TrueBrain> good luck :) 15:03:59 <NukeBuster> return (cost.GetCost() == 0) ? CMD_ERROR : cost; 15:04:03 <NukeBuster> seems to be the problem 15:04:21 <NukeBuster> the code never lets a failed command through though 15:05:12 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:05:54 <TrueBrain> I really wonder how useful it would be to install OpenTTD on my iPhone :p 15:06:11 <NukeBuster> http://paste.openttd.org/143637 15:06:40 <Sacro> i have it on my DS 15:06:57 <NukeBuster> not sure if it is the best fix, but failed DoCommands get tackled earlier 15:07:56 <NukeBuster> It never returns an error if you can't level a factory or something 15:10:46 *** ecke_ [~ecke@pc150-227.upce.cz] has joined #openttd 15:10:49 *** svippy [~svip@0x50a5b150.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 15:11:19 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B723.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:14:15 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks1.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 15:16:46 <NukeBuster> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2392 15:17:45 *** svip [~svip@0x50a5b150.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:19:01 <TrueBrain> long live Google ... we support OpenID .. but it is not compatible with 1.0 or 2.0 .. no, we have our own 'secure' version ... how useless ... 15:22:17 <glx> well it's google :) 15:22:45 *** questionmark [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:23:56 <Rubidium> Google... the new Microsoft 15:24:37 *** supersum [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:24:39 *** yorick is now known as Guest803 15:24:39 *** supersum is now known as yorick 15:28:34 <TrueBrain> and strangly enough ... Microsoft added OpenID, without modification ;) 15:28:38 <TrueBrain> makes you really wonder :) 15:29:13 <TrueBrain> 347 / 423 15:29:30 *** Guest803 [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:29:39 <glx> is it compatible with MS Passport? 15:29:55 <glx> or windows live ID ? 15:30:40 <TrueBrain> dunno :p 15:30:47 <TrueBrain> I just read the summary, and lost interest :p 15:31:12 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat3.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 15:31:30 *** questionmark [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:35:18 *** questionmark [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:35:31 *** yorick is now known as Guest804 15:35:31 *** questionmark is now known as yorick 15:37:38 *** welshdragon [~vista@87.102.21.185] has joined #openttd 15:40:22 <yorick> the help window of openttd -h does not fit anymore 15:40:26 <yorick> to my screen 15:40:43 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:00 *** Guest804 [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:45:55 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 15:50:44 <TrueBrain> get a bigger screen 15:50:56 <TrueBrain> (the solution is always simple) 15:55:30 <yorick> get a bigger laptop? 15:55:31 <TrueBrain> 392 / 423 ... almost there .. 15:56:03 <Celestar> 1400x1050 is not badD: 15:56:21 <Celestar> and I'm going to town 15:56:29 <TrueBrain> enjoy :) 15:56:50 <Celestar> dancing (= 15:57:00 <yorick> it's at 1280x800 15:57:27 <Celestar> bye \o 15:57:30 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:57:40 <TrueBrain> see, your resolution is too low .. 15:57:49 <TrueBrain> (800 in height .. omg .. haven't had that resolution in ages) 15:58:20 *** ecke_ [~ecke@pc150-227.upce.cz] has quit [Quit: ecke_] 15:58:40 <yorick> I was previously at 1024x768 15:58:54 <TrueBrain> a 16:10 screen at 1024x768 ... now that is silly 15:59:03 <yorick> no, another screen 15:59:13 <TrueBrain> oh, YOU were at 1024x756 15:59:17 <TrueBrain> so you are a chatbot after all 15:59:20 <yorick> not the screen 15:59:44 <yorick> no, chatbots are not at the screen 15:59:52 <yorick> they are hidden away into the console 16:00:00 <TrueBrain> not if it would be a robot .. hmm .. interesting 16:00:21 <yorick> or I could be on a device without a screen 16:00:25 <yorick> server? 16:01:27 <TrueBrain> either way: rotate your laptop 90 degrees, and it will fit just fine 16:01:54 <yorick> that is not a really confortable position 16:01:57 <yorick> m* 16:04:15 <Belugas> so? proposition? maybe fetch the text of the help on the console, so you'llbe able to scroll it? 16:04:21 <Belugas> hehe 16:04:56 <yorick> how should I be able to fetch the help text on console on WINDOWS 16:05:26 <yorick> (without using that gui2console thing) 16:05:41 <TrueBrain> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/openttd.cpp#L173 16:05:42 <TrueBrain> TADA! 16:05:45 <TrueBrain> works even under windows 16:06:33 <yorick> TrueBrain: yes, but it does not list the blitters, drivers or graphics packs 16:06:45 <TrueBrain> but that you can read on your own screen 16:06:47 <TrueBrain> as those are on the bottom 16:06:55 *** Zorn [zorn@d121212.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #openttd 16:07:08 <yorick> it displays only the top part :p 16:07:14 <TrueBrain> stupid computer 16:07:49 <yorick> stupid computer programmer 16:07:59 <TrueBrain> yeah, blame microsoft 16:08:00 <TrueBrain> pff 16:08:12 <yorick> stupid microsoft 16:08:13 <glx> hmm right the openttd -h window is too big 16:08:25 <TrueBrain> glx: even bigger with NoAI :) 16:08:42 <glx> well I can see all blitters options 16:08:51 <glx> so for NoAi ... 16:09:26 *** Zorni [zorn@e177234054.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:13:00 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:16:15 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:18:34 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577B9626.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:27:03 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fee9e.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 16:29:24 <TrueBrain> 414 / 423 16:29:26 <TrueBrain> pff 16:29:34 <yorick> what are you counting? 16:31:27 <petern> bans 16:34:43 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-186-222.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: und weg] 16:39:06 <glx> [16:55:33] <TrueBrain> 392 / 423 ... almost there .. 16:39:06 <glx> [17:29:26] <TrueBrain> 414 / 423 16:39:06 <glx> very slow it seems 16:39:50 <Rubidium> at least it's faster than petern's numbers 16:45:58 <petern> indeed 16:48:42 <TrueBrain> it is done :) :) 16:49:43 <TrueBrain> glx: and I estimated 1 package per minute, so that sounds about right :) 16:57:33 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.216.29] has joined #openttd 17:09:30 *** Char [~Ich@d83-180-95-87.cust.tele2.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:36:51 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 17:42:29 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:42:40 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 17:43:53 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@82.139.240.143] has joined #openttd 17:43:54 *** mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ 17:54:09 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-69-27.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 17:58:59 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 18:03:24 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@82.139.240.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:10:06 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:13:14 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14548 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/welsh.txt: -Add: partial welsh translation, to be finished later. 18:14:55 *** yorickvP [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:15:00 *** yorickvP is now known as yorick 18:23:01 *** yorickvP [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:23:19 *** yorick is now known as Guest818 18:23:19 *** yorickvP is now known as yorick 18:27:29 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: translators * r14549 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 18:27:29 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-10-30 18:25:24 18:27:29 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: croatian - 9 fixed by tperic (9) 18:27:29 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: ido - 13 fixed by Cecile (13) 18:27:29 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: indonesian - 219 fixed by dnaftali (219) 18:27:29 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: italian - 1 changed by lorenzodv (1) 18:27:31 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: korean - 2 changed by dlunch (2) 18:29:06 *** Guest818 [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:38:10 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43482.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:43:39 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 18:52:47 <welshdragon> can has openttd in welsh? 18:53:00 <ln> has a bucket? 18:53:16 <welshdragon> ln, haha 18:53:22 <welshdragon> have a cookie 18:54:40 * yorick can has cookie 18:55:26 <Belugas> welshdragon, how hard can has you want it to? 18:55:54 <welshdragon> Belugas, umm, liek now? 18:56:36 <Belugas> are you commited to spend lots of time translating all those.. hem.. lottsa strings? 18:57:27 <welshdragon> hmm i can give it a bash 18:57:47 * welshdragon has done some translating for ubuntu 18:57:52 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@e176229068.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:58:13 <yorick> can has openttd in lolspeak? 18:58:53 <Sacro> yorick: me and you should make a start 19:00:06 <Belugas> around 3500 lines of text... 19:02:00 <Belugas> welshdragon, if you really want to dwelve in the adventure, an account to web transaltor can be setup for ya, /me thinks 19:02:32 <welshdragon> Belugas, how much has already been done? 19:02:48 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g229211044.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:02:48 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 19:03:17 <Belugas> 0 19:03:23 <Belugas> none zit 19:03:23 <frosch123> 2999/3650 19:03:36 <Belugas> on welsh?? 19:03:40 <frosch123> Belugas: you life 50 minutes in the past 19:03:48 <yorick> live* 19:04:29 <Rubidium> frosch123: 2710/3305 would be more accurate 19:04:51 <Belugas> lol 19:04:53 <frosch123> well, I just used wc 19:04:58 <frosch123> also counting the comments and stuff 19:05:05 <Belugas> not 50 minutes, far mote than that ^_^ 19:05:12 <Belugas> i was looking at an old repo 19:05:15 <Belugas> like... very old... 19:05:23 * Belugas is updating said repo 19:07:39 <welshdragon> and yes, i'll accept the account, Sacro any thoughts of having Openttd in Yorkshire speak? 19:07:47 <Sacro> welshdragon: aye? 19:07:59 <Rubidium> frosch123: strgen can tell how much missing strings there are 19:08:01 <Sacro> cept yorkshire isn't consistent 19:08:13 <welshdragon> heh 19:08:21 <welshdragon> use the best phrases 19:17:20 <Belugas> updated 19:17:41 <Belugas> well.. indeed, there is welsh available on the unfinished section 19:22:36 * welshdragon would like to check it 19:22:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i need three volunteers 19:22:49 <welshdragon> what for? 19:23:12 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: take bjarni, sacro and yorick 19:23:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that's traditionally revealed after they volunteered :p 19:23:25 <welshdragon> Eddi|zuHause, i volunteer 19:23:27 <yorick> what for? 19:23:55 <Sacro> frosch123: ME ME ME! 19:24:14 <yorick> forsch123: I volunteer! 19:24:18 <yorick> frosch* 19:24:39 <welshdragon> there, Eddi|zuHause, you have your 3 volunteers, me, yorick and Sacro 19:24:39 <Eddi|zuHause> no, but really... i need diagonal stations, diagonal bridges and diagonal slopes 19:24:51 <welshdragon> as in drawn? 19:24:54 <yorick> you have diagonal slopes 19:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> not with rails in the slope direction 19:26:23 * welshdragon opts out 19:26:28 * yorick opts out 19:26:42 <yorick> not good at drawing 19:26:58 <Eddi|zuHause> not drawn, coded 19:27:03 * Sacro opts out 19:27:06 <yorick> not good at coding nfo 19:27:07 <Sacro> need a dump :( 19:27:18 <yorick> and no C(++) either 19:28:58 <Belugas> too modest 19:29:30 <thingwath> very modest 19:29:40 <yorick> quite modest 19:29:57 <Sacro> slightly modest 19:30:04 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 19:30:38 <yorick> a bit modest 19:31:00 <yorick> llittle modest 19:31:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: i have been thinking, could newobjects as some arbitrarily placed multi tile facilities be combined with newgrf_ports for more or less arbitrary movement patterns? for things like multi tile curves, or shallower multi-tile-slopes? 19:31:11 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host217-44-221-18.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Good pie!] 19:31:21 <Belugas> no 19:31:31 <Belugas> not connected 19:31:39 <Belugas> not the holy graal 19:31:50 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:32:30 <Belugas> just... look-good stuff 19:32:38 <Belugas> with a few props of their own 19:33:41 <Belugas> newobjects can be misleading as a name 19:33:59 <Belugas> it may be more related as new-landscape-objects 19:34:02 <Belugas> maybe 19:34:26 <yorick> you mean it adds new vehicles? 19:34:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so you are just aiming at eyecandy, and not planning for it to be extendible in any way? 19:34:42 * Belugas is swayed by Local Authority 19:35:30 <Belugas> it has been extended a bit, at least in our heads. but it's not a revolutionnary new stuff-do-it-all 19:36:30 <frosch123> that stuff will follow with NewRealism 19:36:46 <frosch123> (part of ottd 1.0) 19:36:53 * Belugas imagines yorick's country side full of half-buried vertical cars... 19:37:00 <Belugas> lol at frosch123 :D 19:37:34 <yorick> the half-buried vertical cars will be washed away by sea and my country side will be clean again 19:40:04 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, to answer you, it's based on unmovables. SO think about light houses, statues and such. 19:40:14 <Belugas> frist draft is inded quite "clean" 19:41:09 <Belugas> but on the second "wave", we'll see about extending it to cargo awareness, maybe 19:41:14 <Belugas> or stuff like that 19:41:44 <Rubidium> newstuff? 19:41:53 <Belugas> yeah :) 19:42:04 <Rubidium> George's ESS ;) 19:42:13 <Belugas> antennas that will guide planes... 19:42:16 <Belugas> NOT 19:42:25 <Eddi|zuHause> well, what i am aiming at is a) a user interface, and b) (map) storage space to store aggregated tile structures (which could come from newobjects) and mix that with a movement automaton like in airports 19:43:23 <Eddi|zuHause> to get a generic newgrf way to define tiles that can be crossed by vehicles in certain ways, but are not stations 19:43:36 * Belugas would like to take whatever Eddi|zuHause took. Looks like good stuff ;) 19:45:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that could help to rather easily add stuff ranging from smooth highway curves over roundabouts to diagonal rail ramps or even doubletrack rail 19:45:41 <Belugas> that kind of object would be hard to represent, i think 19:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i know i am always thinking at least 3 steps ahead of what is actually feasible :p 19:46:06 <Belugas> it would have to be made aware of nearby tiles, in a connection way, plus some rules inside 19:46:27 <Belugas> that's called been high, Eddi|zuHause ;) 19:46:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i hear that quite regularly :p 19:48:49 <Belugas> it's not impossible, everything is possible. but let say time is something that might block quite a few good projects like yours 19:51:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i know that problem ;) 19:52:43 <Belugas> You do? Wait until you'll start working, for real... and have a wife and a kid! 19:53:02 <Belugas> then, you'll really know that proble :D 19:53:04 <Belugas> +m 20:02:28 *** Char [~Ich@d83-180-95-87.cust.tele2.ch] has joined #openttd 20:02:50 <welshdragon> Belugas, can i have a web translator accopunt please? 20:11:00 <glx> ask Rubidium 20:12:21 <Rubidium> rather send an email with a nickname, realname, password and the language to the email address specified on the website 20:12:56 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43482.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 20:14:28 <welshdragon> ok, ty 20:16:36 <welshdragon> Rubidium, umm, emaul address? 20:16:43 <welshdragon> *email 20:18:42 <Rubidium> welshdragon: translator@ 20:20:47 <welshdragon> aah 20:30:10 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:32:28 *** xahodo [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has joined #openttd 20:39:28 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 20:43:21 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fee9e.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:37 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet546.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 20:52:26 *** ln [~lanurm@castor.utu.fi] has quit [Server closed connection] 20:52:27 *** ln [~lanurm@castor.utu.fi] has joined #openttd 20:54:36 <welshdragon> Rubidium, sent 20:55:16 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!] 20:55:29 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-92-217.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:57:10 * Belugas caugh it and trashed it! 21:00:51 <welshdragon> you trashed my email? 21:02:32 *** daspork [~daspork@71-87-194-249.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #openttd 21:03:31 <Belugas> buwhahaha!!! 21:05:56 * welshdragon shall resend it 21:06:28 <Belugas> naaa.... it was a joke :S 21:06:37 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 : http://kopete.kde.org] 21:13:07 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:13:26 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 21:14:23 <Belugas> night boyz, i shall now return home 21:21:43 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.167.129.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:22:25 *** batti5 [~batti5@92.82.85.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:32:37 *** DorpsGek [truebrain@openttd.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 21:32:44 *** DorpsGek [truebrain@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 21:32:47 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 21:32:56 *** paul_ [~paul@host86-168-197-97.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:33:20 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-168-197-97.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:33:23 *** paul_ [~paul@host86-168-197-97.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 21:33:44 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-168-197-97.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:41:17 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577B9626.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 21:43:15 *** FloSoft [~sifldoer@g229068204.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: computer has gone to sleep] 21:46:28 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@e176241095.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 21:47:46 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e176229068.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:47:46 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 21:48:02 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5C792.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:07:43 *** baud [~peer@75-170-54-173.eugn.qwest.net] has joined #openttd 22:08:37 *** xahodo [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.] 22:09:06 <baud> I am having trouble getting a setting (company_pw) to set correctly in ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg. Whenever I try to blank out the password it resets the password as what I initially set it at. 22:12:20 <baud> so no one can set a company password -_-; 22:13:29 <Rubidium> you were likely running openttd while changing the config file and then closing openttd reset it 22:14:11 <baud> probably 22:14:32 *** welshdragon [~vista@87.102.21.185] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:53 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e176241095.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:15:28 *** Sacro|Laptop [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 22:17:16 *** baud [~peer@75-170-54-173.eugn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:22:38 *** baud [~peer@75-170-54-173.eugn.qwest.net] has joined #openttd 22:22:48 *** baud is now known as peer 22:22:54 *** peer is now known as baudchan 22:23:06 <baudchan> rebooting didn't help either 22:24:26 *** vvv444 [~vvv444@89-138-176-73.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #openttd 22:25:08 *** Mark [~M4rk@5ED06875.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:21 *** welshdragon [~vista@87.102.21.185] has joined #openttd 22:33:22 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: mikl] 22:34:13 *** baudchan [~peer@75-170-54-173.eugn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:35:56 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:38:59 <Wolf01> 'night 22:39:04 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host124-61-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:49:10 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: [FATAL] Client error: Memory leak - More RAM needed. More! More! More!] 22:54:50 *** Char2 [~Ich@d83-180-95-87.cust.tele2.ch] has joined #openttd 22:56:09 <welshdragon> if a string is {RED}{COMMA} does it need translating? 22:56:39 <SmatZ> I think it needs translating so it is counted as translated in stats :) 22:56:44 <SmatZ> but I may be very wrong 22:57:28 <welshdragon> hmm, it could break the string, that's all 22:57:45 <Sacro|Laptop> no 22:57:51 <Sacro|Laptop> {RED}{COMMA} is left 22:58:04 <welshdragon> thank you 22:59:37 <glx> you can just copy it 23:00:46 *** Char [~Ich@d83-180-95-87.cust.tele2.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:00:49 <Sacro|Laptop> cheat :p 23:01:07 <welshdragon> oh god, i'm currently translating toyland 23:01:14 <Sacro|Laptop> lawl 23:08:40 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 23:16:30 <welshdragon> there we go 23:16:43 <welshdragon> committed my first 9 strings :p 23:16:49 <Sacro|Laptop> nice 23:22:45 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:23:06 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:31:16 *** elmex [~elmex@e180064147.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:13 <welshdragon> Sacro|Laptop, standard server needs a new game 23:38:37 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: COCKBUSTER SLEEP MODE] 23:39:56 <Sacro|Laptop> welshdragon: orly? 23:40:21 <welshdragon> yes, it's like 2079 or something 23:45:20 <Sacro|Laptop> orly? 23:45:23 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B723.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:42 <welshdragon> yarly 23:46:13 <welshdragon> 20th of September, 2061 23:54:01 *** eMJay [~michael@60-241-9-164.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:56:28 *** Char [~Ich@d83-180-95-87.cust.tele2.ch] has joined #openttd 23:56:32 <Char> aaaaaaaaaAAAAAHHHHH! 23:56:41 <Char> i produced lots of vehicles 23:56:52 <Char> but i cannot transport them 23:57:02 <Char> since i do not have any wagons able to transport them :/