Log for #openttd on 15th November 2008:
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00:42:17  <Patrick> here's a worrying thing
00:42:36  <Patrick> in the real world, iron ore is turned into steel via the use of coke
00:42:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, you are very worrying
00:42:45  <Patrick> i.e. a source of combustible carbon
00:43:03  <Patrick> in transport tycoon, blast furnaces instead consume ore and ... people
00:43:13  <glx> Patrick: try PBI
00:43:24  <Patrick> I did, couldn't get the hang of it
00:43:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> what he said
00:43:29  <Patrick> I think I remember enjoying it
00:43:36  <Patrick> I'm just saying, I won't send people to a firey death
00:44:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> "a railway consists of 5% iron and 95% people"
00:49:41  <Patrick> there's a grain of truth in that.
00:52:17  <china>
00:54:09  <vraa> ttd needs orbital transporting
01:04:17  <SmatZ> "Beam me up, Scotty!"
01:04:38  <china> 16.000mph right now.
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01:35:08  <ccfreak2k> <Patrick> in transport tycoon, blast furnaces instead consume ore and ... people
01:35:15  <ccfreak2k> Are they really programmed to "consume" passengers?
01:36:05  <Patrick> yep
01:36:12  <benjamingoodger> gotta consume something
01:36:15  <Patrick> steel mills accept iron ore and passengers
01:39:48  <ln> it's especially suspicious if they produce less than consume.
01:41:19  <benjamingoodger> well
01:41:24  <benjamingoodger> I suppose if they're not accepting coal
01:41:38  <benjamingoodger> they have to burn some sort of carbon compound to generate carbon monoxide
01:41:44  <benjamingoodger> people are as good as anything...
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01:45:47  <benjamingoodger> hmm
01:47:09  <benjamingoodger> it's 2C + O2 -> 2CO; CO + FeO -> Fe + CO2, isn't it?
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02:29:42  <theholyduck> you need more than iron and heat to make steel though
02:29:57  <theholyduck> i SEEM to remember you need 10-20% FeSi
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08:43:21  <Patrick> steel requires low carbon in fact
08:43:39  <Patrick> so after making iron, you bubble oxygen through it to remove the residual carbon
08:43:51  <Patrick> otherwise you get brittle cast iron
08:44:00  <Patrick> good for drain covers, not for buildings
08:49:45  <duckzor> Patrick, my point is still valid though. you need some sort of alloy material to make steel
08:49:54  <duckzor> and i know FeSi is used for that sort of thing
08:50:49  <duckzor> not to mention the biproduct of FeSi production is a dust used to make concrete stronger.
08:50:52  <duckzor> anyways
08:50:58  <Patrick> aye
08:51:09  <planetmaker> <-- no Si.
08:52:15  <duckzor>
08:52:19  <duckzor> plenty of si :P
08:52:27  <duckzor> i was way wrong on the %'age
08:53:01  <duckzor> 0.75%-1.5% si in steel :P
08:53:15  <duckzor> depending
08:53:39  <duckzor> for stainless that is
08:53:59  <Patrick> I imagine that's more of a tolerable or useful side-effect of mining iron ore from silicates
08:54:34  <planetmaker> stainless uses cromium. not silicon
08:54:53  <duckzor> planetmaker, stainless uses both :p
08:55:07  <duckzor> rather there is a percentage of silicon in stainless and any steel
08:55:33  <duckzor>
08:56:17  <planetmaker> you notice that your link doesn't support silicon as inclusion?
08:56:24  <duckzor> well i wasnt arguing for that
08:56:30  <duckzor> i dont want FeSi industries
08:56:38  <duckzor> it would be pointless
08:56:56  <duckzor> im just saying in the real world they use FeSi to make steel
08:57:50  <planetmaker> sure.
08:58:06  <planetmaker> it's all numb people who wrote those articles, I guess :P
08:59:04  <planetmaker> doesn't mean it cannot be done though
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09:00:18  <duckzor> One metric ton of steel contains approximately 3-4 kilograms of FeSi, whereas one metric ton ot stainless steel contains approximately 20 kilograms of FeSi. Hence, we are always surrounded by products containing ferrosilicon.
09:00:30  <duckzor> and now lets discuss something intresting instead :P
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09:17:08  <Wolf01> hello
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11:02:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> why does LaTeX turn ">" into a "¿"?
11:02:37  *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
11:04:10  <Rubidium> because it assumes a spanish codepage?
11:04:12  <Gekz> it does?
11:04:13  <Gekz> lol
11:07:57  <Eddi|zuHause> \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
11:07:57  <Eddi|zuHause> \usepackage{ngerman}
11:08:07  <Eddi|zuHause> does not look like i'm telling it to use spanish :p
11:10:06  <Patrick> so, er, whereabouts is the autoreplace gui? I've used it before, I just lost it
11:10:33  <Eddi|zuHause> vehicle list -> manage list -> replace vehicles
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11:12:11  <Patrick> bwaha!
11:12:12  <Patrick> cheers
11:12:38  <Patrick> I played the historical angle, now i have 50 kirby paul tanks
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11:16:40  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: you should use > in math mode ( $>$ )
11:17:10  <Gekz> I can't see a use for LaTeX
11:17:16  <Gekz> other than random typesetting
11:17:30  <Gekz> but why would you be typing > in it if it's not maths
11:17:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: can i override that somewhere, that i can leave out the $ $?
11:18:07  <Alberth> Gekz: that's why it is mapped to some (apparently) common spanish char
11:19:02  <Gekz> that's not a good reason either
11:19:04  <Gekz> lol
11:19:14  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: what do you use the char for?
11:20:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm writing a draft for my diploma thesis, and out of reflex i type stuff like "->"
11:20:15  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: $\rightarrow$ :)
11:20:27  <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't help with my reflexes :p
11:20:57  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: you can do a search/replace afterwards
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11:25:49  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: To make > a normal character, you have to override default char code mappings. I have no idea how unfortunately. You'll have to read the TeX book by Knuth.
11:26:40  <Gekz> write an Eddi keymap
11:27:23  <Alberth> Well, I once had a system with a programmable keyboard, there you simply remap > to $>$ in the keyboard :)
11:28:31  <Gekz> lol.
11:29:18  <Zuu> That would be a bit anoying if you would write > for any other reason than typing it in LaTeX.
11:29:36  <Zuu> Other than if you put the macro on some other key than the usual place ofcourse.
11:31:09  <Zuu> I could eaisily just put it on shift + any number, so it won't override any existing stuff (I don't have anything on shift+ number). Normal Qwerty-folks could put it on Alt Gr + any letter.
11:31:45  <Patrick> Zuu: what about ... punctuation?
11:32:13  <Zuu> Patrick: What punctuation?
11:32:30  <Patrick> ah, ok, you're on a non-thingy keyboard
11:33:25  <Zuu> Patrick:
11:34:56  <Eddi|zuHause> AltGr+letter has some @łŋđħ¶€ŧ stuff predefined here :p
11:35:25  <Zuu> And how often do you use them?
11:35:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd rather have greek letters there
11:35:56  <Eddi|zuHause> but i haven't got around to modifying the keymap
11:35:57  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, I was also thinking that
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11:56:15  <Patrick> I use alpha and beta lot
11:57:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i'll be using \lambda and \epsilon a lot
11:57:35  <Eddi|zuHause> or rather, \varepsilon
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12:06:54  <billy6> hi!
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12:08:38  <billy6> are there any programmers?
12:08:56  <SmatZ> batti5?
12:09:34  <dihedral> billy6, what is your real question?
12:09:35  <billy6> who is batti5?
12:09:53  <SmatZ> someone with similiar nick to your :-P
12:10:58  <dihedral> @seen batty5
12:10:58  <DorpsGek> dihedral: I have not seen batty5.
12:11:02  <dihedral> @seen batti5
12:11:02  <DorpsGek> dihedral: batti5 was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 1 day, 19 hours, 29 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <Batti5> a talking program?
12:11:32  <billy6> no, sry, I'm not batti5... if i wanted to write an opengl program, which needs data from openttd to draw the landscape, how would i do it?
12:12:43  <dihedral> there is an opengl thread in the forums
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12:13:32  <billy6> how do i find it?
12:13:49  <Zuu> try searching for opengl in general openttd forum.
12:14:11  <Zuu> could be devforum or suggestions forum too.
12:14:40  <dihedral> tt-forums does have a search function
12:14:46  <dihedral> and there is still google
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12:27:28  <billy6> ok, thank you very much, i think i found something
12:29:54  <dihedral> well done
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12:42:39  <ln> hello dihedral
12:43:01  <dihedral> hello ln
12:49:59  <duckzor> hmm
12:50:07  <duckzor> this small airport thingy is starting to annoy me
12:50:53  * duckzor starts a new 3d model to do while hes being cross with the airpot
12:50:58  <duckzor> *airport
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13:02:48  <Antdovu> you know you code too much when you wake up in the morning and think that your room is a .cpp file and your bed is a particular function...
13:02:59  <SmatZ> hahaha
13:03:32  <Antdovu> fortunately my nightmares don't include any segmentation faults
13:03:39  <Antdovu> at least I don't remember any...
13:03:50  <SmatZ> when I played TTD a lot, I had dreams about it, and saw squared world (like - bed has 3 squares, table 2 squares, ...)
13:03:53  <SmatZ> weird
13:03:56  <SmatZ> hehe
13:04:49  <Antdovu> yeah, I used to try different combinations of tracks in my head without wanting to think about it
13:05:14  <SmatZ> :-)
13:07:26  <theholyduck> whenever i've been modeling alot
13:07:32  <theholyduck> and do something i dont wanna do
13:07:32  <Zuu> I've only dreamed about enhancing railway junctions :)
13:07:41  <theholyduck> i instinctivly do ctrl+z
13:07:47  <theholyduck> even in thin air
13:07:54  <SmatZ> :-D
13:08:12  <Alberth> I once bicycled home, and while thinking about a problem at work, turned left one street too early. At the moment I realized it, I thought 'hmm, this is the wrong sub-directory' :)
13:08:41  <theholyduck> i cant decide WHAT i wanna model for the 32bpp project :P
13:08:54  <theholyduck> all the really good stuff is either airports. wich im currently bored of
13:09:01  <theholyduck> or taken :P
13:09:04  <Patrick> Alberth: did you instinctively try to punch backspace or type "cd .."
13:09:27  <Patrick> I got called on something like that once, I was trying to see something far away and my pinkie twitched as if I was going to press "z"
13:09:39  <Alberth> Patrick: no, I thought, he this thing has a backdoor to the right street
13:10:03  <Patrick> hah
13:11:10  <Alberth> and I thought a while how that would map to real FS directory structure :P
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13:14:11  <Zuu> Last weird dream was about enhancing the luggage system at our major airport, after having been there at a study visit there with a class in air traffic planing I am taking. Quite impressive sytem actually.
13:15:53  <SmatZ> :)
13:16:41  <SmatZ> joins before split are cause of jams
13:16:54  <SmatZ> every day I travel by bus I see examples of that
13:17:13  <SmatZ> if the designers played TTD, they knew this has to be avoided
13:17:18  <theholyduck> SmatZ, well sure.
13:17:24  <theholyduck> but the problem with cities
13:17:27  <theholyduck> is that once they are built
13:17:29  <Zuu> For luggage that does not have an exit open they store the luggage downstairs in a luggage hotel, all automatic. :)
13:17:32  <theholyduck> you need a good war to rearange the streets
13:18:00  <SmatZ> theholyduck: I was kidding a bit ;) also, you are money-limited :)
13:18:33  <theholyduck> SmatZ, just enforce communism for a bit. declare war on your neighbours. have them bomb your cities and then force your people into building better city layouts
13:18:53  <theholyduck> though a bit elaborate just to speed up bus travel
13:19:09  <SmatZ> theholyduck: well, even during communism this wasn't possible :-P
13:19:24  <theholyduck> SmatZ, well alternative nr2.
13:19:32  <theholyduck> invade all the worlds third world countries
13:19:35  <theholyduck> and reimplent slavery
13:19:48  <theholyduck> free labour!
13:19:58  <SmatZ> I don't think there was ever slavery :)
13:20:20  <Prof_Frink> Alberth: A backdoor to another directory? That'd be a symlink.
13:20:41  <theholyduck> nothing is impossible as long as you got determination. strenght and a endless supply of expendable labor!
13:20:49  <theholyduck> SmatZ, and what do you mean. there was no slavery?
13:21:02  <theholyduck> there ALWAYS was slavery
13:22:06  <Alberth> Prof_Frink: not really, symlinks still follows the dir structure. I think you'd end up with a graph, like a set of Wiki pages (although at the time I had never seen a Wiki).
13:22:07  <theholyduck> everyone did it :D
13:22:22  <SmatZ> true :)
13:22:43  <Antdovu> everyone knows that you can use slavery to turn population into hammers but not beakers.
13:23:11  <theholyduck> hmm
13:23:17  <theholyduck> maybe i should model a airplane :P
13:23:33  <Antdovu> a unicorn!
13:23:45  <theholyduck> Antdovu, well 32bpp doesnt really ned unicorns
13:23:50  <theholyduck> *need
13:23:54  <Antdovu> why not?
13:24:07  <theholyduck> well last time i checked there wasnt any unicorns in the original ttd?
13:24:15  <theholyduck> i MAY be wrong
13:24:18  <theholyduck> or in openttd
13:24:22  <Antdovu> it's a feature request
13:24:26  <theholyduck> so why would 32bpp openttd need it?
13:24:27  * SmatZ wonders if "Slavic people" have something to do with "being slaves"
13:24:40  <Antdovu> there weren't any trams either, were there? ;)
13:24:49  <theholyduck> Antdovu, well trams are USEFULL
13:24:58  <theholyduck> im all for the implementation of the invisible pink unicorn thouhg
13:25:01  <Antdovu> so are unicorns
13:25:14  <theholyduck> but since its allready there
13:25:22  <Antdovu> ok, let's merge the ideas
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13:25:33  <Antdovu> a flying unicorn
13:25:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i think my head is exploding...
13:26:00  <theholyduck> Eddi|zuHause, cut the blue wire!
13:26:04  <Antdovu> that's work, right?
13:26:06  <theholyduck> or was it the red one?
13:26:06  <Alberth> fairy-tale land!
13:26:23  <theholyduck> just cut the bugger!
13:26:23  <Antdovu> unicorns are real
13:26:46  <Zuu> Could possible tak 2 pax.
13:26:50  <Zuu> take*
13:27:25  <Alberth> and castles as cities
13:27:52  <Antdovu> more than 2 if we consider it a Trojan unicorn
13:29:28  <Antdovu> ok, I'll stop with the unicorns for a few hours :)
13:30:21  <theholyduck> the vickers is the coolest one with no model
13:30:26  <theholyduck> pluss everyone loves the vickers
13:30:32  <theholyduck> thus finding some good reference should be easy
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13:32:14  <Antdovu>
13:32:39  <theholyduck> actually there is a webpage that has like 3k pics of vickers
13:32:39  * vvv444 wonders why Arctic climate has no oil rigs
13:33:00  <theholyduck> i took vickers nr1
13:33:05  <theholyduck> the first one they made
13:33:15  <theholyduck> 27 pics of just that one
13:33:31  <theholyduck> perfect side and front shots even
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13:47:50  <yorick> the PACKET_SERVER_COMMAND should always end with a bool, right?
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14:03:15  <yorick> 00020411100000000000000000817c000000003803000008 <-- this is the content, but I can't understand it...
14:03:36  <planetmaker> hm.... is there a limit on the number of grfs the grf selection dialogue can handle?
14:06:46  <Antdovu> yes
14:06:55  <Antdovu> there definitely is :P
14:07:42  <Antdovu> I just don't know a reasonable upper bound
14:08:43  * Rubidium would vote for something around 600 ;)
14:09:45  <Antdovu> looking at code isn't fair :P
14:09:55  <yorick> it seems to be company 0, cmd 269550594(&0xFF), p1 0, p2 0, tile 31873, text '', callback 0, frame 824, my_cmd 8?
14:10:07  <Rubidium> Antdovu: I'm not looking at code
14:10:26  <Rubidium> if I would've done that I'd've said that the limit is around 65536
14:11:00  <Rubidium> the 600 is merely the number of "notable" NewGRFs
14:11:08  <yorick> anything until p2 seems to make sense
14:11:53  <Ammler> Rubidium: do you have faster connection now?
14:12:18  <Ammler> would be really happy about such a list :-)
14:16:28  <Rubidium>
14:18:37  <Patrick> what rev number are we up to now?
14:19:32  <yorick> @list openttd
14:19:32  <DorpsGek> yorick: bug, bugs, changed, commit, download, grf, grfs, info, port, ports, propset, servers, svn, thelog, and youngest
14:19:40  <yorick> @openttd youngest
14:19:40  <DorpsGek> yorick: latest: r14578
14:19:58  <Patrick> niiice3
14:20:18  <Patrick> it was 3000 the last time I did any work on it :P
14:21:27  <planetmaker> [15:08]	* Rubidium	would vote for something around 600 ;) <-- because not all were displayed after I added two full versions of our grf pack :)
14:21:37  <planetmaker> it ended somewhere around entries starting with 's'
14:22:33  <Rubidium> I don't know of any restriction
14:24:56  <planetmaker> I'll have a closer look :)
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14:29:37  <yorick> <-- all grfs used somewhere in multiplayer
14:29:57  <planetmaker> hm... cannot reproduce it.
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14:31:06  <Ammler> thanks Rubidium
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14:33:35  <planetmaker> maybe I was just too stupid to scrol
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14:36:08  <Ammler> GTS should not count as NewGRF
14:36:30  <petern> gts?
14:36:35  <Ammler> generic tram set
14:36:53  <petern> why not?
14:37:33  <Ammler> it was distributed with ottd and it is used on many servers alon.
14:37:51  <yorick> it is only distributed on stable releases
14:37:55  <petern> ...
14:38:04  <Ammler> ah well.. nvm.
14:38:09  <petern> it's a newgrf
14:38:14  <Ammler> of course it is.
14:38:16  <petern> of course it 'counts as newgrf'
14:38:26  <Ammler> I agree :-)
14:38:41  <yorick> servers with only GTS should not count as GRF-enabled server...
14:39:18  <Ammler> yorick: nice said.
14:39:37  <petern> nicely
14:39:41  <petern> but you're wrong
14:39:47  <Patrick> if you have a version of ottd that is capable of joining a server using GTS, then it can load GTS
14:39:59  <Patrick> but that's no guarantee
14:40:15  <Ammler> petern: why?
14:41:47  <Ammler> ah, forget it, it is ok. It was just a "wild" thought. No worth to discuss about.
14:42:46  <yorick> could anyone help me with the command problem?
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14:47:10  <Patrick> Ammler: it's a thought
14:49:01  <Ammler> Patrick: that was for peter
14:50:29  <Ammler> my thought had nothing to do with technical things, it was just statistics
14:51:10  <Ammler> GTS is like openttd[w|d].grf
14:52:50  <Ammler> (to be fair to other tram grfs)
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15:21:42  <yorick> could anyone help me?
15:21:56  <welshdragon> with what?
15:22:13  <welshdragon> if you'll help me :)
15:22:21  <yorick> with my failure to understand the network protocol in case of the PACKET_SERVER_COMMAND
15:22:28  <yorick> and what's your problem?
15:23:15  <welshdragon> my query is if i put an entry presignal before a junction, will the junction be kept clear until there's a path?
15:23:34  <welshdragon> alas, i can't help you with yoyr problem
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15:39:39  <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: entry signals are not path signals
15:40:00  <welshdragon> hmm
15:40:12  <welshdragon> i just need to keep some junctions clear
15:40:32  <Eddi|zuHause> the old block signals don't care about paths, they check wether the block is clear
15:41:30  <Eddi|zuHause> with block signals, you use entry and exit signals to keep the junction clear, with path signals, you place only a signal at the entrance, and at the exit you leave 1 train length space before the next signal
15:44:38  <welshdragon> hokay
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15:45:56  <Eddi|zuHause> note that entrance and exit block signals are meant for very simple junctions, they fail when the junctions get too complex
15:56:00  <welshdragon> i have a flat crossover junction that's all, i just wondered if a entry signal would keep it clear
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16:09:59  <Eddi|zuHause> entry signals do nothing special if you don't have matching exit signals
16:19:52  <Wolf01> bbl
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16:35:00  <ln>
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16:39:57  <ln> dunno if i'd want to drive a van on that road:
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16:55:11  <yorick> why does CmdMoneyCheat have a special networking check, as it is already a CMD_OFFLINE command?
16:59:33  <Aali> may be old code
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17:00:10  <Antdovu> maybe it stops it from working if I modify my client?
17:00:23  <Antdovu> (didn't look at the code)
17:00:28  <yorick> Antdovu, no, CMD_OFFLINE does that already
17:00:40  <yorick> but it does stop it from working if I modify my server
17:00:55  <yorick> which stops me from being a good control-freak
17:01:40  <Antdovu> anyway, that double check probably doesn't matter much in terms of performance
17:01:59  <Antdovu> not that having less code would be a bad idea
17:02:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i want my cheats to be ultra performant!!
17:02:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i click on them 1 million times per second!
17:02:38  <yorick> (I do sometimes)
17:03:32  <yorick> just a simple 1-million-times-per-second-button-clicker to give me the huge amount of money needed for copy-pasting a 2048x2048 map
17:03:42  <Eddi|zuHause> so you basically want to cheat yourself on the server, but not allow anyone else to cheat
17:04:22  <Eddi|zuHause> you could just add a few 0 to the code and then recompile :p
17:05:10  <yorick> no, I would like to allow multiple persons to cheat, in case other people like to flood the map
17:05:37  <yorick> so I can restore it with a small copy-paste without losing and player properties that might be on the map
17:06:55  <Eddi|zuHause> err... right...
17:06:59  *** Zahl [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:07:02  <yorick> and to restore minor landscape terraforming ( hills that get flattened)
17:07:12  *** Zahl [] has joined #openttd
17:07:21  <Eddi|zuHause> so you really want a hot-replace-saveload
17:07:34  <yorick> I already have that, it just needs a lot of mony
17:07:37  <yorick> e*
17:08:31  <Eddi|zuHause> what if you instead add a no-money-flag or auto-restore-money to the copy paste (terraforming) routines?
17:08:42  *** Killer11 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:08:58  <Eddi|zuHause> like some versions of autoreplace add some virtual money to play with, before doing the actual autoreplace
17:08:59  <yorick> then it wouldn't be really network compatible, would it
17:09:17  <Eddi|zuHause> why? the commands are run on all clients
17:09:28  <Eddi|zuHause> just have to ensure that hacked clients cannot cheat that way
17:10:04  <yorick> the hacks we use to run the server with some people godlike mode wouldn't get into openttd anyway
17:10:26  <Eddi|zuHause> or that you only publish the hacked version to the people you trust ;)
17:11:03  <yorick> the changes you suggest would require all clients to be patched
17:11:33  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, that might be necessary, indeed
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17:12:41  <yorick> just the double-check removed, and it'd work
17:12:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i do remember a while back that people requested/wrote a patch to change the money transfer routines to generate money from a null-soruce
17:13:23  <yorick> autocleaned companies could be the null-source
17:14:09  <yorick> they have about max_money/2 :p
17:14:27  <Patrick> huh?
17:14:35  <yorick> huhhuh?
17:15:53  <Patrick> mmm, money
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17:30:17  <eht> HELLO ALLZ!!!
17:30:35  <Aali> No.
17:31:04  <dihedral> stop yelling!
17:31:22  <Eddi|zuHause> it must really suck if they misspell your name that badly, Aali ;)
17:31:31  <dihedral> LOL
17:32:00  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i->y, y->z, aal->all ;)
17:32:14  <Aali> Eddi|zuHause: i didn't really look at it that way, but sure
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17:33:01  <Avdg> are some people ready to think, cause i maybe a very difficult treath
17:33:05  <ln> HELLO EHT
17:33:15  <Aali> great, spambots
17:33:28  <ln> err, a spambot
17:33:38  <Eddi|zuHause> one?? thousands!!
17:33:47  <ln> so true
17:34:07  <Avdg> :/ spambot at me...
17:34:19  <Avdg> should i give the nicks...
17:34:49  <Avdg> aaa, alehyx, andyBot,...
17:35:26  <Avdg> all saying
17:36:03  <Avdg> !help :/
17:36:03  *** Avdg was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
17:36:03  *** Avdg [] has joined #openttd
17:36:23  <Avdg> ???
17:36:56  <Avdg> its not fun...
17:37:53  *** The_Sex_Is_On_Fire [~Booth{] has joined #openttd
17:37:59  <The_Sex_Is_On_Fire> hello
17:38:04  *** The_Sex_Is_On_Fire is now known as Booth
17:38:07  <Booth> hello
17:38:23  <Eddi|zuHause> common typo :p
17:38:27  <ln> another bot Booth?
17:38:28  *** eht [~the@] has quit [autokilled: Spamming. Contact for further information and assistance. (2008-11-15 17:38:45)]
17:39:08  <Booth> i am not a bor
17:39:09  <Booth> bot
17:39:17  <Antdovu> I am a bot
17:39:28  <Booth> i am an android
17:39:28  <Avdg> :p
17:40:32  <Avdg> why is this happends so often the last year :/
17:40:58  <Eddi|zuHause> this what happened?
17:41:31  <Avdg> already saw joinspamming... but not this personal attack :/
17:42:37  <Eddi|zuHause> btw, did anybody click on that link, and find out how dangerous it is?
17:42:41  <Avdg> i've started a topic on forum... but its realy for the openttd coders...
17:43:42  <Antdovu> it's some mirc bs
17:43:48  <Avdg> :/
17:44:03  * Avdg hate mirc
17:44:14  <Avdg> kvirc is better :p
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17:44:59  <Antdovu> I use pidgin, it sucks
17:45:08  <Avdg> ^^
17:45:50  <Patrick> no matter how dilligently I service my oil wells, they still dry up
17:46:14  <Patrick> is it malice?
17:46:23  <Antdovu> it is a personal attack on you
17:46:49  <Eddi|zuHause> oil wells do never increase production, and close after 1980
17:46:55  <Eddi|zuHause> use oil rigs instead
17:46:59  <Patrick> it's 1943
17:47:08  <Avdg> i am happy: kvirc has an option, close all queries :D
17:47:22  <dihedral> Antdovu, xchat and irssi ;-)
17:47:39  <Antdovu> what are those?
17:47:50  <Avdg> irc-programs
17:48:18  <Avdg> hum... im making an example for my topic :p
17:48:58  <Antdovu> for some reason I don't like adding programs
17:49:19  <Antdovu> and my current IRC client already works, just somehwta annoyingly :P
17:50:04  <Antdovu> no idea how I managed type that permutation
17:51:48  <Avdg> i am minimalising with programs atm... only trouble... the best programs are mostly heavy and slow programs
17:52:32  <Aali> for some values of best
17:52:56  <Patrick> I built my economy on OIL!
17:52:57  <Patrick> gah
17:53:04  <Patrick> back to the start
17:53:13  <Patrick> bwaha, I love the challenge
17:53:46  <Eddi|zuHause> well, clearly, "windows" and "word" are definitely "best"
17:54:41  *** Singaporekid [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:54:43  <Zuu> Well, word is not that power hungry. But try make a heavy regex-search in word with ViEmu. :-)
17:54:55  <Antdovu> I have linux on dual boot but I rarely use it because vista takes ages to boot
17:55:21  <Aali> Antdovu: then dont boot vista ;)
17:55:21  <Antdovu> and I am too lazy to install the complete stack of necessary programs on linux
17:55:53  <Zuu> Antdovu: Why do don't use Linux beacues vista boots slow??
17:56:05  <Antdovu> (5:55:12 PM) Antdovu: and I am too lazy to install the complete stack of necessary programs on linux
17:56:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i have specifically decided against dual boot when i switched to linux
17:56:35  <Aali> well, you could replace vista with something lighter, like XP
17:56:41  <Eddi|zuHause> kind of like ditch into the cold water
17:56:47  <Antdovu> no games on linux ;)
17:56:56  <Antdovu> tuxracer doesn't count
17:56:56  <Eddi|zuHause> plenty of games on linux
17:57:04  <Eddi|zuHause> openttd ;)
17:57:13  <Antdovu> what's that? never heard of it
17:57:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i even got civ4 running on wine
17:57:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i later did install a windows, for lan parties etc.
17:57:35  <Antdovu> interesting that you'd say that
17:57:43  <Zuu> Dual boot sucks. But both systems have their strengths that are hard to live without.
17:57:52  <Antdovu> I have a BTS game in the background at the moment :P
17:58:10  <Eddi|zuHause> but i boot into the windows only like once or twice a year
17:58:41  <Eddi|zuHause> yes... civ is... very addictive...
17:58:42  <Aali> its easier when you have two computers, one windows, the other linux ;)
17:59:09  <Antdovu> well, I am often in the computer lab with my laptop, plenty of extra computers to use :P
17:59:13  <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause: So you never watch TV or movies on demand?
17:59:18  * Rubidium wonders what was the last time he needed Windows
17:59:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i always watch TV, that's what i have kaffeine for...
17:59:40  <Antdovu> most run linux
18:00:06  <Eddi|zuHause> and certain definitions of "movies on demand" ;)
18:00:28  <Antdovu> bt?
18:00:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have the bandwidth for any kind of streaming video
18:00:50  * Rubidium knows that the last time there was Windows on one of my computers is roughly 4.5 years ago, which is due to it being preinstalled on my laptop
18:00:59  <Eddi|zuHause> even youtube is hardly possible
18:01:22  <Rubidium> youtube works fine
18:01:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean bandwidth-wise
18:01:47  <Rubidium> just download the .flvs and run them in mplayer ;)
18:02:05  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, something like that ;)
18:02:24  <Rubidium> gives you much more, better and quicker control over the playback
18:02:52  <yorick> (repeat) why does CmdMoneyCheat have a special networking check, as it is already a CMD_OFFLINE command?
18:03:28  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i hate those embedded flash players
18:03:30  <Avdg> <- my suggestion
18:03:46  <Avdg> but it will be a bad idea i guess
18:04:10  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Quit: und weg]
18:04:34  <Eddi|zuHause> what are the odds of something good coming out of the suggestions forum? :p
18:04:59  <Patrick> nothing
18:05:02  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: near 0 as it's such utter crap that I don't even spend time reading it
18:05:14  <Aali> Avdg: is the MASSIVE rewrite worth it?
18:05:24  <Avdg> dont know
18:05:26  <DaleStan> Epsilon. That or delta; I can never remember which is which.
18:05:31  <Aali> oh and YAPF already works with segments, much like you've illustrated
18:05:35  <Avdg> im new on english forum :p
18:05:55  <Patrick> Rubidium: perhaps if you changed to a 3d engine and introduced shooter/RPG elements
18:06:07  <Avdg> close that topic if it doesnt make sense :p
18:06:29  <Patrick> Avdg: end of the day, the pathfinder isn't the bottleneck
18:06:32  <Patrick> it's the rendering
18:06:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Avdg: maybe you should talk to Tekky, he has played around a bit with alternate ways of reservations
18:06:53  <Aali> Patrick: rendering doesn't bog down servers though
18:07:01  <Avdg> I am learning C++ by reading the code...
18:07:11  <Eddi|zuHause> especially multiple types of reservation on the same tile (strong/weak/etc.)
18:07:15  <Avdg> so i think that will say enough
18:07:52  <Avdg> i am thinking on reservations like rl
18:07:58  <Eddi|zuHause> what is the main bottleneck of PBS, though, is the repeated reservation attempts when waiting on a red signal
18:08:02  <Avdg> but that will be hard :p
18:08:11  <Avdg> hum...
18:08:14  <Aali> "fixing" ship pathfinding might be a better idea
18:08:19  <Aali> quite difficult, though
18:08:31  <Patrick> lemme guess
18:08:37  <Patrick> adding one ship makes the game slow down?
18:09:00  <Avdg> no, long distance between buoys slows down...
18:09:12  <Aali> nah, the old pathfinder performs okay, but thats because its not really doing much pathfinding
18:09:18  <Aali> so you have to place bouys
18:10:49  <Eddi|zuHause> well, suggestion for buoys, since we already have boost/bgl in cargodest, build up a graph of all buoys, and statically store the path between any two (adjacent) buoys
18:11:17  <Eddi|zuHause> then ship pathfinding only has to care about which buoys to pass
18:11:40  <Aali> you shouldn't *need* bouys though
18:11:42  <Eddi|zuHause> placing a buoy or modifying territory might be expensive, though
18:11:49  <Aali> the pathfinder should be able to manage without them
18:11:59  <Avdg> should there be a new event at pbs... if an train left a cross or signal, that the pbs should check it again
18:12:09  <Avdg> that other trains can reserve
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18:12:26  <Eddi|zuHause> Avdg: yes, listener pattern, but where to store?
18:12:41  <Avdg> :/
18:12:46  <Avdg> new vars?
18:12:54  <Eddi|zuHause> you can't store it in the map array
18:13:07  <Avdg> it doesnt need...
18:13:10  <Eddi|zuHause> so you need some kind of reservation pool
18:13:23  <Avdg> pool?
18:13:41  <Eddi|zuHause> "pool" is ottd's version of a dynamic array
18:13:50  <Avdg> ow :p
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18:14:15  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a station pool, a vehicle pool, an industry pool, etc.
18:14:17  <Avdg> that the game make it in begin, it will take some more loading time...
18:14:36  <Avdg> wait a bit...
18:14:53  <Avdg> its just an event
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18:15:33  <Avdg> so if a train left a special item... (entered station, left signal, jucntion, ...) it should find the pbssignals...
18:15:50  <Avdg> and ask 1 of the pbssignal to calculate...
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18:16:11  <Aali> sounds like a small improvement over the current situation
18:16:15  <Avdg> but i dont know how the pbs choose his signal to calculate
18:16:17  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but you must consider that this must be faster than the train recalculating the path every tick
18:16:20  <Aali> you still have to start over every time
18:16:44  <Eddi|zuHause> and the possibly affected PBS signals may be much larger
18:16:53  <Eddi|zuHause> it needs a reverse pathfinder
18:16:58  <Avdg> that pathfinders can tell wich exit he may not take...
18:17:07  <Eddi|zuHause> you need all signals that can lead to this tile
18:17:28  <Eddi|zuHause> whereas trains only reuse the existing pathfinder
18:17:51  <Eddi|zuHause> which has an additional return value if it crossed an existing reservation
18:18:01  <Avdg> so he can skip when the trains where the cleared junction is only that one he cant take
18:18:08  <Eddi|zuHause> and then sets the signal to red
18:18:13  <Eddi|zuHause> or rather, to not green
18:18:55  *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@] has quit [Quit:]
18:19:50  <Avdg> i was actually thinking on an other way to unreservate...
18:20:46  <Avdg> hum...
18:20:53  * Avdg reading the source
18:22:10  <Avdg> isnt there any svn system in the microsoft c++ editor?
18:23:23  <Avdg> brb
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18:28:52  <Avdg> k
18:28:56  <Avdg> :/ eating
18:29:05  * Avdg hongry
18:31:47  <davis-> did you mean horny? @google
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18:47:00  <Avdg> back
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19:00:40  <ln> i press "bj<tab>" and nothing happens
19:01:04  <rortom> hi
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19:10:13  <Eddi|zuHause> ln: there must be a conspiracy
19:10:29  <petern> @seen bjarni
19:10:29  <DorpsGek> petern: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 0 days, 21 hours, 42 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Bjarni> <ln-> well, good to see you back amongst the healthy, in any case. <-- sort off.... I'm totally tired and I missed everything at uni this week
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19:23:32  *** Lord_Vider [~egliolter@] has joined #openttd
19:23:35  <Lord_Vider> hi
19:23:46  <Lord_Vider> is anybody alive?
19:23:59  <Lord_Vider> need help with TTD
19:24:15  <Lord_Vider> ëóÞå íà ðóñêîì
19:24:20  <yorick> ?
19:24:24  <welshdragon> Lord_Vider, is it technical?
19:24:32  <Lord_Vider> dunno
19:24:33  <welshdragon> and can you speak english?
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19:24:38  <Lord_Vider> yea
19:24:40  *** rortom [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:24:45  <ln> he's from belarus, interesting.  so they do have internets.
19:24:56  <welshdragon> ok, what's your problem?
19:25:04  <Lord_Vider> ->ln<- very funny
19:25:41  <welshdragon> Lord_Vider, ignore his witty remarks,
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19:25:53  <Lord_Vider> after start its write some kind of "Couldnt find font"
19:26:03  <welshdragon> hmm?
19:26:20  <welshdragon> which game? openttd?
19:26:22  <Lord_Vider> and i see only "????? ??? ??? ???" but words
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19:26:26  <Lord_Vider> yea
19:26:34  <ln> welshdragon: i mean seriously, belarus is perhaps the most "closed" country in europe.
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19:26:50  <welshdragon> ln, hmm, maybe
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19:26:55  <Lord_Vider> ->ln<- r u from moon?
19:27:01  <yorick> yes, they only have ? in belarus
19:27:21  <welshdragon> but that's not what we're here for
19:27:21  <yorick> unless you use another font
19:27:55  <Lord_Vider> ok, how change lang???
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19:29:11  <ln> Lord_Vider: belarus is not a closed country?
19:29:20  <Lord_Vider> ->ln<- errr
19:29:22  <Lord_Vider> not
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19:29:49  <Lord_Vider> n sweden?
19:29:57  <Lord_Vider> :)
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19:31:08  <Eddi|zuHause> Lord_Vider: maybe you should look in the readme, it has a part about what to do when you only see "???"
19:31:22  <Lord_Vider> really?
19:31:22  <ln> Lord_Vider: for example, your president is banned from travelling to European Union, even as a tourist. no?
19:31:47  <Eddi|zuHause> Lord_Vider: no, you are the first person to ever encounter this problem...
19:31:48  <Lord_Vider> yes. but its not disturbing me
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19:32:46  <Lord_Vider> ->Eddi|zuHause<- maybe havent this part.... there is nor
19:32:48  <Lord_Vider> not
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19:34:46  <Lord_Vider> fck
19:34:59  <vvv444> Hey, was tram logic for choosing stop when several available on same station ever considered/discussed?
19:34:59  <Antdovu> no swearing
19:35:19  <welshdragon> Lord_Vider, (from the readme (look in your opennttd file) With the added support for font-based text selecting a non-latin language will result in garbage (lots of '?') shown on screen. Please open your configuration file and add a desired font for small/medium/-and large_font. This can be a font name like "Tahoma" or a path to a font.
19:35:23  <Antdovu> vvv444: yes, it chooses the worst one
19:35:23  <Eddi|zuHause> "[...] will result in garbage (lots of '?') shown on screen. [...]" <- how about this section?
19:35:29  <welshdragon> now anything else./
19:36:03  <Lord_Vider> ->Eddi|zuHause<- danke, i'm donkey :)
19:36:04  <Eddi|zuHause> vvv444: the multistop feature was not (yet) updated for drive through stops
19:36:16  <vvv444> Antdovu: I hope you're joking :) It seems that the nearest is chosen.
19:36:35  <Antdovu> even choosing a random one would be better...
19:36:55  <Lord_Vider> er.....
19:36:56  <vvv444> Eddi|zuHause: Multistop? What is it?
19:37:03  <Eddi|zuHause> vvv444: it tries to reserve bays like with the other bus/truck stations, but it does not consider, that the 2nd bay is only accessible from the other side
19:37:09  <Lord_Vider> which configuration file ???
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19:37:16  <Eddi|zuHause> so it gets suboptimal results, if already a bay is taken
19:37:30  <Eddi|zuHause> Lord_Vider: openttd.cfg
19:37:33  <Ammler> why do some GRF authors use bitswitch instead of multiple parameters?
19:37:52  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: because assembler programmers like bitswitches
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19:38:13  <Eddi|zuHause> they have been trained to save and pack bits wherever possible
19:38:28  <Eddi|zuHause> indoctrinated, one could say
19:38:41  <Lord_Vider> ->Eddi|zuHause<- where is it?
19:38:47  <Ammler> but you agree it is less userfriendly?
19:38:51  <vvv444> Some try saving bit halves :)
19:39:01  <welshdragon> Lord_Vider, look in the directory you installed openttd
19:39:22  <welshdragon> c:\program files\openttd
19:39:26  <welshdragon> or something
19:39:32  <welshdragon> wherever you installed it
19:39:35  <Ammler> "1 0 1" looks better then "5"
19:39:36  <Eddi|zuHause> no, in my documents\openttd
19:39:41  <Lord_Vider> there's not
19:39:44  <Lord_Vider> fck
19:40:01  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean fsck
19:40:22  <ln> Ammler: *than
19:40:33  <Lord_Vider> found!!!
19:40:35  <welshdragon> Eddi|zuHause, min'es in my instalattion directory... how... strange
19:40:45  <Lord_Vider> i mean f u ck
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19:40:56  <Eddi|zuHause> when you run "openttd -d misc=3" from a cmd prompt, it should tell you the personal directory
19:41:44  <Eddi|zuHause> no, you clearly mean filesystemcheck :p
19:42:59  <Ammler> I thought about something like it was only possible to have one parameter at beginning of NewGRF
19:45:35  <Lord_Vider> thanks
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20:45:01  <yorick> Rubidium, why does the cheat need to be disabled in multiplayer using the "double" check
20:45:15  <yorick> it can already not done by a client
20:45:41  <yorick> and there is no way to do that without debug or patching the server either
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21:05:21  <Ammler> is a grf coder around?
21:05:51  <Ammler> I have troubles to initialize the parameter with a default value, here param0 to 1
21:08:09  <Ammler> hmm, saturday night is a bad time ;-)
21:11:54  <Aali> did you set any other parameters before that?
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21:52:36  <Yexo> hello
21:53:42  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:01:49  <ln> night, Wolf01
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22:44:26  <Ammler> Aali: still here?
22:44:31  <Aali> nope
22:44:32  <Aali> sorry
22:44:36  <Ammler> :-)
22:44:38  <Aali> :P
22:44:58  <Ammler> if I set the parameter to 1 it works
22:45:16  <Ammler> but if I don't, it doesn't
22:45:45  <Aali> well, did you set any parameters anywhere else?
22:45:53  <Ammler> but "0 * 0 	0D 00 80 FF 00 \d1" should set it to 1 per default
22:46:00  <Ammler> no
22:46:05  <Ammler> only action8 is before
22:47:02  <Aali> hmm, dont know what it could be then
22:49:14  <Ammler> maybe I did escape wrong
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22:50:16  <Aali> nah, its looks okay
22:50:18  <Aali> -s
22:53:42  <Ammler> well, it works now
22:53:44  <Ammler> 0 * 0 0D 00 80 FF 00 01 00 00 00
22:53:44  <Ammler> hmm
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22:54:53  <Ammler> that is strange
22:55:17  <Ammler> the escapes will be "converted" by grfcodec?
22:55:27  <Aali> yes
22:55:39  <Aali> get a diff of the files, see whats going on
22:58:42  <Ammler> hmm, I finish my GRF first, will then make a small test
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23:36:08  <Antdovu> 0xffffffff bottles of beer on the wall
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23:37:50  <Antdovu> yeah, the mere sight of it can cause ping timeouts
23:39:44  <welshdragon> Antdovu, the meer sight of you does that :P
23:43:22  <Antdovu> I am quite frightening :)
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23:48:18  <Eddi|zuHause> "not quite" :p
23:48:53  <Antdovu> don't let the unicorns fool you :P
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23:52:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i meant: remove the "quite" from the sentence :P
23:53:51  <Antdovu> that's more like it :P
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