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Log for #openttd on 8th February 2009:
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01:11:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r15404 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_node.hpp: -Cleanup [YAPF]: A tiny bit of const correctness.
01:14:29  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... am i feeling adventurous enough to install a new graphics driver?
01:17:43  <Rubidium> on OSX?
01:18:01  <Eddi|zuHause> on openSUSE, with an ATI card
01:18:51  <Rubidium> can't say anything sensible about either
01:19:14  <Rubidium> the last ATI I had was like two renumberings ago (5 years)
01:19:35  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the card is as old as that
01:19:45  <Eddi|zuHause> but the driver gets hopefully improved over time
01:22:12  <Eddi|zuHause> the driver i have installed is 8.something, the current driver is 9.1
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01:22:56  <KAYSENESCAL> it is work?
01:23:15  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it is pleasure
01:23:23  <Rubidium> yes it is work
01:23:35  <KAYSENESCAL> thx
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01:27:29  <Sacro> tf?
01:27:47  <Eddi|zuHause> someone should forbid kids to play with IRC at 2:30AM
01:28:35  <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: or people our age who are drunk
01:28:43  <goodger> they have similar mentalities
01:28:49  <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean "our" age?
01:29:02  <goodger> er
01:29:09  <goodger> the age group encompassing my age and your age
01:29:28  <Eddi|zuHause> you have not a single clue what my actual age is
01:29:45  <goodger> yes I do
01:30:23  <goodger> judging by your behaviour and clarity of speech it is equal to or greater than mine, and since you're alive, it is likely under 95
01:30:29  <goodger> so you're 18-95
01:30:56  <Rubidium> oh yes I do
01:32:03  <Eddi|zuHause> "judging from my behaviour and speech" <- people have been hopelessly fooled by that one already
01:32:15  <Eddi|zuHause> thinking that i was 40-50 when i was 21
01:32:21  <goodger> quite
01:32:33  <goodger> people have been thinking I was in my 30s since I was 12
01:32:46  <goodger> it's been quite annoying, they stop taking me seriously as soon as I reveal my true age
01:33:10  <Eddi|zuHause> there is a simple solution to that problem
01:34:19  <goodger> yes
01:34:25  <goodger> I worked that out at age 12
01:34:31  <goodger> *thumbup*
01:34:34  <el_en> i think i know how old Eddi|zuHause is, so it's quite likely that piece of information has been revealed on this channel in the past.
01:34:45  <goodger> true
01:34:54  <goodger> the minimum bound is now 21, of course
01:35:11  <goodger> so, to reiterate with anti-BloodyMindedGerman phrasing, "people of age 18-95"
01:35:12  <Eddi|zuHause> el_en: yes, i have been giving out clues, but that does not mean that goodger has any ;)
01:35:21  <goodger> ta very much
01:36:03  <Eddi|zuHause> whatever a "ta" is
01:37:31  <goodger> it means "thank you"
01:37:40  <goodger> used sarcastically in this case
01:37:45  <goodger> to mean "up yours!"
01:37:46  <goodger> :P
01:40:30  <Rubidium> HansAffe is broken
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01:50:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15405 /3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/ (sqapi.cpp sqvm.cpp sqvm.h): [Squirrel] -Add: framework for 'taxing' opcodes from outside the VM.
01:52:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15406 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: make Valuate actually cost a few opcodes to not make it a single opcode method of doing lots of the same thing. This should resolve most of the hiccups caused by AIs.
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02:15:49  <Eddi|zuHause> someone pray for me...
02:15:52  <Eddi|zuHause> or something
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02:16:38  <goodger> wtf
02:20:08  <Sacro> Ed...
02:20:15  <Sacro> I don't think he's ever left
02:20:59  <Sacro> HELP
02:21:02  * Sacro shudders
02:24:35  <goodger> he leaves all the time ¬.¬
02:24:41  <Sacro> no he doesn't
02:24:46  <Sacro> there's always one or two spares
02:25:00  <goodger> ...
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02:28:17  <glx> he's just updating video draiver
02:28:21  <glx> -a
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02:32:17  <Sacro> hey Eddi|zuHause :D
02:32:28  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, that did somehow not work as intended
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09:57:10  <OsteHovel^EEE> Hi Everybody
10:02:08  <Alberth> most people are still asleep, it seems
10:03:37  <OsteHovel^EEE> It seems so...
10:03:50  * OsteHovel^EEE is compilling the newest SVN
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10:14:59  <Alberth> I have switched to HG some time ago, much better for local dev and patching
10:17:10  * Alberth looking at the Wiki to find how to make one-way roads
10:17:53  <OsteHovel^EEE> Alberth, first you build a road and then you place the one-way thing...
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10:37:16  <OsteHovel^EEE> i used 3 minutes and 15 secound's on a linux compile
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10:37:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15407 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Codechange: When loading a save game with an invalid pool index, report the problem (invalid index) rather than an impossible symptom (too many items), and report it in game instead of causing a crash.
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10:47:03  <OsteHovel_EEE> my record for compile is 2 minutes(i compile allegro, sdl, zlib, png, freetype, network and all the other stuff)
10:47:12  <OsteHovel_EEE> using DistCC
10:48:22  <OsteHovel_EEE> !bananas
10:48:29  <OsteHovel_EEE> bananas
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10:51:51  <Alberth> did you try parallel build with 'make -j2' (or a higher number) yet?
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10:53:20  <Alberth> my town roads cannot handle all the goods trucks :)
10:58:02  <OsteHovel_EEE> i use make -j8 :P
10:58:11  <OsteHovel_EEE> becouse i used 3 pc during the last build
10:58:27  <OsteHovel_EEE> when i build with all the 4 pc's i have at home i use make -j12 :D
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11:35:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15408 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_controller.cpp: -Fix (r15027): AIs could call AIController::Sleep() at times they're not allowed to sleep.
11:41:09  <petern> 2 minutes? my record was 18 seconds. on one cpu...
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12:02:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15409 /trunk/src/ (44 files in 3 dirs):
12:02:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: Currencies
12:02:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  Remove intermediate currency "New Turkish lira".
12:02:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  Add Euro introduction date for Slovakia.
12:02:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  Remove Euro introduction date for Hungary.
12:03:00  <thingwath> nice patch. :o)
12:04:09  *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
12:05:00  <SmatZ> -       {  378, ',', 2010,      "",     " Ft",   1,  STR_CURR_HUF    }, ///< hungarian forint
12:05:02  <SmatZ> +       {  378, ',', CF_NOEURO, "",     " Ft",   1,  STR_CURR_HUF    }, ///< hungarian forint
12:05:07  <SmatZ> 8-)
12:05:43  <SmatZ> how politics' plans are failing...
12:05:54  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host114-234-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
12:06:05  <Wolf01> hello
12:06:09  <thingwath> wonderful :-D
12:06:25  <SmatZ> hello Wolf01
12:06:45  <SmatZ> (not talking about CZK, we don't have any plans yet ;)
12:06:51  <SmatZ> *real plans
12:08:01  <SmatZ> just the government is funny... the want to keep the criteria for accepting euro even in this crisis
12:08:01  <frosch123> SmatZ: between 2012 and 2019 says my wikipedia :) depending on who you ask
12:08:03  <Wolf01> gah... and now what font I was using on irc?
12:08:07  <thingwath> the real plan is not to introduce euro anytime soon, so we don't have to admit our economy would not meet the criteria ;)
12:08:18  <SmatZ> what means the government doesn't spend much money for helping the economy...
12:08:33  <SmatZ> :-)
12:09:02  <thingwath> I would rather trust our prime minister than wikipedie (well, not really, just for this particular case :o))
12:09:11  <SmatZ> hehe :)
12:10:08  <Wolf01> I think is better I install office first, maybe the font was there
12:10:12  <SmatZ> and I think the criteria could be loosed when it's now much harder to keep them
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12:10:50  <SmatZ> (not that I wanted Euro, I don't mind)
12:10:53  <SmatZ> hello Belugas
12:10:56  <Wolf01> welcome back Belugas
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12:22:01  <Darkvater> ola :)
12:22:36  <Wolf01> hi DV :)
12:22:46  <Rexxie> its the one they call Darkvater!
12:23:23  <Darkvater> guys I really  have a noob problem :P. I downloaded openGFX through bananas, but now openttd defaults to it... How do I turn this off?
12:23:36  * Darkvater is ashamed he cannot figure out how to do this
12:23:54  <Yexo> petern made a nice option for that in the game options window
12:23:58  <frosch123> Darkvater: look into game options
12:24:22  <Darkvater> yes, changing the resolution helps :P
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12:25:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15410 /trunk/ (83 files in 8 dirs): -Cleanup: get rid of most of the references to the 'patches' except where it's used for backward compatability.
12:26:02  <Eddi|zuHause> so... what's the "patch" command called now?
12:26:13  <Darkvater> cause in the past I added opengfx as a static configuration but it's nowhere to be seen in the config file...puzzling
12:26:30  <Rubidium> Darkvater: graphicsset
12:26:50  <Darkvater> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=758475#p758475
12:26:55  <Darkvater> Rubidium: thanks, jsut found it
12:27:03  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: for backward compatability 'patch' or 'setting'
12:27:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd have preferred "set"
12:27:39  <Darkvater> is it reasonable to say that opengfx will override the original graphics? I guess so from a legal point of view but confusing
12:27:47  <Darkvater> and I get confused.... :P
12:27:47  <Eddi|zuHause> "set <variable> <value>"
12:28:23  <Yexo> Darkvater: if you have r15389 or later you can change graphic sets via the game options window
12:28:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Darkvater: from the recent amount of "bug"-reports, i guess it should not.
12:28:34  <Rubidium> Darkvater: it only overrides because it gets found earlier (IIRC)
12:28:44  <Darkvater> Yexo: evil, i only have 15361 :)
12:29:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but why is the original graphics set not stored in the config file before opengfx was downloaded from bananas?
12:29:58  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: because it's not needed?
12:30:27  <Eddi|zuHause> would solve the whole "found first" issue
12:31:14  <Eddi|zuHause> it would be "found first" on the very first startup (without config)
12:31:25  <Eddi|zuHause> and any subsequently downloaded graphics set must be activated manually
12:31:44  <Darkvater> he, did you guys look at the output of -h lately?
12:31:46  <Darkvater> http://www.liacs.nl/~tfarago/openttd_h.jpg
12:32:14  <Rubidium> yup, we're forbidden to see the output of -h too ;)
12:32:26  <Darkvater> I think it's always bad practice to override existing settings without notification or just by downloading
12:32:34  <Darkvater> Rubidium: refresh
12:32:51  <Darkvater> it's a bit... big :)
12:33:30  <Darkvater> Eddi|zuHause: I like that idea
12:35:10  <Darkvater> either way, opengfx should not default for on while even the intro game has black boxes
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12:37:13  <Darkvater> oh and one more question: I get the corrupted bla bla grf error message. Now I know why that is and I'm well aware; is there some way to silence that msg box
12:37:47  <Rubidium> changing a few lines of code will do that
12:38:10  <Darkvater> hihi, I know :)
12:38:15  <Darkvater> but then I can't download nightlies anymore
12:38:20  <petern> yeah, by ought to make the description shorter :p
12:39:05  <Darkvater> you are probably asking why on earth would this guy even need a nightly? He is supposed to have a permanent checkout of openttd :D
12:40:21  <Darkvater> frosch123: the ingame changing possibility is good :)
12:40:58  <petern> Eddi|zuHause, that should happen now
12:41:02  <petern> i think
12:41:02  <frosch123> ehh, it's petern's
12:41:03  <SmatZ> Darkvater: thank peter ;)
12:41:19  <petern> oh, maybe it just saves the 'no value', heh
12:41:49  <petern> i mainly added the ingame changing to stop the millions of bug reports
12:41:49  <Darkvater> I know I can count on you  petern  ;)
12:41:57  <petern> clearly Darkvater surpasses them ;)
12:42:19  <petern> i need to get around to removing that custom vehicle name thing
12:42:25  <Darkvater> I know
12:42:34  * Darkvater hides in a corner and starts sobbing quietly
12:42:39  * petern hugs Darkvater
12:42:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15411 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Feature(ttette): make 'set' a alias for the setting/patch console command
12:43:11  <petern> :D
12:43:21  <petern> Featurettette
12:43:23  <Darkvater> thanks petern
12:47:18  <Darkvater> I am impressed
12:47:25  <Darkvater> only 30 open bugs on flyspray
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12:48:55  <Darkvater> hmm, I think I'll revert to the original trgr1.grf and use the grf version of tahoma fonts to get rid of the error window
12:49:34  <Eddi|zuHause> the low number of bugs is because there was no beta release, so nobody actually finds them ;)
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12:50:54  <petern> Darkvater, just enable tahoma via freetype ;)
12:50:57  <Darkvater> you think?
12:51:13  <petern> low number of bugs is partly because nobody bothers reporting them
12:51:31  <petern> and then when they do we don't bother fixing them :D
12:51:37  <Darkvater> petern: yes but for small fonts the replacement is better so if I use it for that purpose anyways, I don't need tahoma :)
12:51:58  <Darkvater> and again, why did this guy bother you with AA not enabled in freetype when he won't use it now?
12:52:01  <Darkvater> hehe
12:52:10  <Darkvater> petern: I like your logic
12:52:41  <petern> 97+104
12:52:42  <petern> er
12:54:04  <petern> you need to use freetype fonts with opengfx, as its own font is, er, not very nice.
12:54:17  <petern> (that was an incidentally, by the way)
12:58:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15412 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp engine_func.h settings_gui.cpp variables.h): -Fix: Clearing custom engine names could cause desyncs due to be client-side only; GUI parts of save/load of custom engine names also removed as it was never implemented.
12:58:37  <Wolf01> bbl
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12:59:40  <petern> *being
12:59:43  <Rubidium> oh... --VARDEF ;)
13:03:17  <frosch123> nice, no custom names :) next step would be 'original names' language and service intervals per vehicle
13:03:18  <energetic> is there any primer on the graphics system used in ottd?
13:03:39  <energetic> I get lost understanding cpp code when it hits most UI code.
13:04:36  <Alberth> energetic: graphics or windows?
13:04:52  <energetic> sorry, windows system
13:05:01  <Alberth> (there is not really a primer afaik, but I may be able to help you with the windows
13:05:25  <energetic> well, I thought: lets make my first helloworld ottd patch
13:05:50  <energetic> which includes displaying town status in townslist
13:05:59  <energetic> whether or not it is a city.
13:06:31  <energetic> (make tet bold, show "(city)" <-- anything to visualize whether town is city or not
13:06:59  <Alberth> window UI starts with a WindowDesc, that defines the basic GUI settings
13:07:10  <el_en> why does OpenGFX look like a japanese porn movie?
13:07:11  <Darkvater> petern: that's no problem; I don't really like opengfx...it's too depressing
13:07:18  <energetic> so then I stumlbed upon town_gui.cpp -> towndirectorywindow -> onpaint
13:07:34  <energetic> thats where my magic happens, i think.
13:07:37  <Alberth> a show_XXXX() function constructs a Window object
13:07:43  <energetic> k
13:08:03  <Alberth> energetic: window data structures definitions are in window_gui.h
13:08:20  <energetic> but I cant seem to understand where it gets the town name and dumps it into a ui list
13:08:50  <Darkvater> energetic: GetString(t->xy) or something, no?
13:09:06  <Yexo> energetic: in BuildTownList
13:09:08  <Darkvater> or SetDparam(t->id, 0);
13:09:21  <energetic> looks like it is  DrawString(2, y, STR_2057, TC_FROMSTRING);
13:09:31  <Yexo> that's where it draws it yes
13:09:40  <energetic> that one is in a foreachtowns loop
13:09:55  <Alberth> energetic: town_gui.cpp, line 268
13:10:25  <Yexo> Alberth: that's the wrong window :p
13:10:51  <energetic> STR_2057->> no clue. Also, i dont work with the same version as u guys do, linenumbers therefore are useles
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13:11:10  <Yexo> energetic: you can look up those strings in lang/english.txt
13:11:23  <Darkvater> energetic: STR_something is defined in english.txt. You can see that it has some parameters like {TOWN} etc.
13:11:42  <Darkvater> energetic: these are passed to the string runtime through SetParam calls prior to a Drawstring call
13:11:53  <Darkvater> at least... it used to be like that :P
13:11:57  <energetic> ok
13:11:59  <petern> frosch123: you can still rename and reset them individually. that's done by command...
13:12:07  <Alberth> Darkvater: some things never change :)
13:12:16  <energetic> thats usefull, since when I hit  definition it shows me 0x205A
13:13:21  <Alberth> energetic: how strings work is described at http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Strings
13:13:34  <energetic> tnx
13:13:35  <Darkvater> fkc
13:13:36  <Darkvater> brb
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13:15:04  <Darkvater> forgot to screen my session :s
13:15:26  <energetic> hm
13:15:33  <energetic> cant seem to find the magic thing here
13:15:51  <energetic> BuildTownsList() -> no getstring here
13:15:52  <Darkvater> energetic: tell me where you are looking? eg file:line
13:16:16  <energetic> no getstring at all in town_gui.cpp
13:16:33  <Alberth> you never deal with text itself
13:16:37  <energetic> Buildtownlist() Towndirectorywindow town_gui.cpp
13:16:41  <energetic> i know
13:16:46  <energetic> only with placeholders etc
13:16:53  <petern> why are you expecting a getstring?
13:17:03  <energetic> but he has to get a town name somewhere
13:17:11  <Yexo> energetic: DrawString(2, y, STR_2057, TC_FROMSTRING); <- that line draws the town name + population
13:17:41  <petern> you pass the id of the town via SetDParam(), and use an STR_xxxxxxx that expects it
13:17:48  <Darkvater> energetic: towns are in a pointer list in smallvector so you need to go to the drawing code
13:17:55  <Yexo> STR_2057 :{ORANGE}{TOWN}{BLACK} ({COMMA}) <- if you didn't found it yet, first argument is {TOWN} and the second one is {COMMA}
13:17:58  <Darkvater> 				SetDParam(0, t->index);
13:17:58  <Darkvater> 				SetDParam(1, t->population);
13:17:58  <Darkvater> 				DrawString(2, y, STR_2057, TC_FROMSTRING);
13:18:02  <energetic> yesyes
13:19:25  <energetic> ah
13:19:29  <energetic> it indexes on the name
13:19:39  <energetic> not a new, numerical index
13:19:42  <Darkvater> energetic: don't be confused by it, it's magic. {TOWN} in the string function will retrieve the town name from the town id
13:20:26  <energetic> so I am correct: setDParam(0, t->index); just adds the name to the string to be drawn....?
13:20:33  <Darkvater> yes
13:20:38  <energetic> ah
13:20:46  <Alberth> energetic: if you print a StringID with a {TOWN} in it
13:21:08  <Yexo> no, SetDParam sets a value for one of the arguments of the string. STR_2057 happens to contain {TOWN} as first argument
13:21:41  <energetic> ok, and why is {TOWN} not {NAME_TOWN} ?
13:21:48  <Alberth> energetic: the StringID are like the string-constants in printf(), and the SetDParam() are for adding arguments
13:22:12  <energetic> ok
13:22:16  <petern> cos {TOWN} is enough
13:22:19  <Alberth> energetic: history?
13:22:21  <Darkvater>  /me loves openttd's string handling :)
13:22:22  <Yexo> energetic: why is it not {NAME_TOWN_FROM_TOWN_ID} ?
13:22:45  <Darkvater> {LANGUAGE_DEPENEDENT_TOWN_NAME_FROM_TOWN_IDENTIFIER_ON_MAP}
13:22:46  <Eddi|zuHause> because it is not {NUMBER_WITH_1000_SEPARATOR_AND_CUSTOM_PREFIX_AND_POSTFIX_CURRENCY} either
13:22:50  <energetic> ah, ok. I got confused here twice by the t->index (which is not an index but a name)
13:22:56  <petern> no
13:22:59  <petern> t->index is an index
13:23:02  <Yexo> t->index is really an index :)
13:23:09  <energetic> yes, but also a town name
13:23:11  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, forgot "_TURNS_RED_WHEN_NEGATIVE"
13:23:12  <Darkvater> energetic: no
13:23:13  <petern> no, it's an index :)
13:23:15  <energetic> err
13:23:32  <Alberth> energetic: {TOWN} means 'print the town name belonging to town <index>
13:23:39  <Darkvater> energetic: it's a number. but when the string system sees {TOWN} it knows that it needs to get the name of the town of that index
13:24:26  <energetic> sigh.
13:24:31  <Alberth> energetic: read the string system wiki
13:24:48  <energetic> i will, thanks :)
13:25:04  <petern> it is confusing when you first see it
13:25:36  <petern> a few times people have no understood it and proposed a replacement (without proposing what the replacement be)
13:25:39  <petern> *not
13:25:44  <energetic> anyways: it just passes the townid to the string subsystem, which is aware of towns and seemingly able to retrieve a town name for an townid (or index) number.
13:25:53  <Darkvater> eureka :)
13:26:04  <petern> yes, it is precisely able to do that because the string in the language file contains {TOWN}
13:26:18  <petern> if it contained {NUM} instead, you'd get the number printed
13:26:39  <energetic> since it gets a {TOWN} thingie, it is happy to do that for me ;)
13:26:45  <petern> @seen belugas
13:26:45  <DorpsGek> petern: belugas was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 10 hours, 33 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <Belugas> bonsoir
13:26:45  <Darkvater> GetStringWithArgs I think it is
13:27:10  <energetic> that is kinda funny
13:27:37  <Darkvater> eh sorry, FormatString
13:28:54  <energetic> so the string susystem actually is aware of what kind of strings to expect and know what to do with it --> it contains all logic for handling lists, too. In this case, it sees {TOWN} and some param number, and thinks: hey, iv got a town and a number, now I will lookup this info myself and pass it back since I have that info
13:29:02  <Alberth> energetic: it is this way so it is easy to handle a lot of different languages
13:29:26  <Alberth> energetic: yes, it is custom designed for the game
13:29:31  <energetic> I fail to see that, But I admit I have not read the wiki article yet.
13:29:56  <energetic> If I still fail to see it when i read it , i will bother u guys again ;P
13:30:05  <Darkvater> you've had your chance :)
13:30:07  <energetic> thanks alot htough
13:30:15  <Alberth> you know where you can find us :)
13:30:21  <energetic> :)
13:30:27  <energetic> anyways
13:30:42  <energetic> it comes from a little frustration that noone seems to know cities actually eist
13:30:50  <energetic> did you guys know it, for instance?
13:30:50  <Darkvater> let me add some more on the fire... is there any ETA to branch off 0.7?
13:31:05  <energetic> *do*
13:31:16  <frosch123> Darkvater: after 0.7 beta 5 :p
13:31:40  <Darkvater> is there any ETA for 0.7b1? :)
13:31:53  <Darkvater> energetic: we look at the source, Luke
13:33:01  <frosch123> bbl
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13:33:13  <Darkvater> I see, evading the question :)
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13:34:21  <Darkvater> hi glx
13:34:34  <glx> hello
13:35:30