Log for #openttd on 10th February 2009:
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00:01:39  <dihedral> [00:52]  * Sacro sits alone in his basket <-- good dog
00:01:53  * Sacro hisses
00:04:31  <dihedral> now now!!!
00:04:43  <dihedral> or you wont get a goody
00:06:43  <Perfk> hmm. I downloaded the GRF's.. do I have to add them all in the NewGRF settings? (there are many :P)
00:06:51  <Sacro> me grrrmbls and curls up
00:07:30  <Ammler> Perfk: no, they will be loaded automatically
00:07:40  <Perfk> Thank good :) hehe
00:07:47  <Ammler> (if you have the correct versions)
00:08:22  <Perfk> the correct version.. is that the nightly build? or the one I got from's frontpage ?
00:08:35  <Perfk> 0.6.3
00:08:49  <Ammler> depense on the server
00:09:13  <Ammler> if the dot on the right side is red, you have the wrong version.
00:09:48  <Ammler> you see the needed version on the details (right of the list)
00:10:41  <Perfk> can't I just download the newest version and it will work on all servers? :P would be nice
00:11:44  <Perfk> Just looked in the servers list.. very few that I can't get into. so looks like iam good for now :)
00:11:47  <Ammler> indeed, but mostly no
00:11:48  <Perfk> Thanks for the help guys
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00:13:02  <Ammler> you should be able to join around 50% of the servers with most players with the current stable
00:14:18  <Ammler> nightly server has mostly their own homepage/IRC channel with support to join.
00:24:41  <Sacro> lol hi
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00:32:25  <dihedral> hello Sacro
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00:45:30  <energetic> every new question about 064/070 delays it with one day...
00:46:25  <dihedral> energetic, how good you dont know what it's 'soposed' to be release, nor have any influence on that
00:46:33  <dihedral> so you have like no way of telling anyway!
00:50:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r15437 /trunk/src/unmovable_cmd.cpp:
00:50:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Do not run a code section when you already know it is useless
00:50:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Do not rely on a decision based on something that has already been evaluated
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01:07:14  <NukeBuster> Rubidium?
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01:20:40  <Rubidium> night NukeBuster
01:23:12  <NukeBuster> still here?
01:23:17  <dihedral> hehe
01:23:20  <dihedral> night Rubidium
01:23:28  <dihedral> NukeBuster, ;-)
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01:34:39  <Rubidium> NukeBuster: if you would've asked what you wanted to ask I could've answered it, but these pseudo-questions are quite pointless. Anyhow, the answer on your previous question (once I've pressed <enter>) is: not anymore.
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02:48:02  <Scuanor> hello everybody :o)
02:49:06  <Scuanor> im getting a linkerror with ms vc++ when trying to compile to debugversion fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol @FT_Done_Face@4"
02:49:11  <Scuanor> can someone help me with that?
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02:52:38  <Aali> Scuanor: did you get the openttd_useful package?
02:53:15  <Scuanor> Aali: yes. v2.10
02:54:57  <Aali> that's a freetype symbol, are you positively sure that its linking to the right library?
02:56:43  <Scuanor> no, not anymore. im checking it, i may have copied the useful things to a wrong place °scratches head°
03:01:09  <Scuanor> checked. they were in the right place, the right versions and i set the right pathvariable for them.
03:01:48  <Scuanor> i know :o) that doesnt asnwer your question. i try to find that out now.
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03:04:48  <Scuanor> hm, how do i find out, if they are linked rightly?
03:05:19  <Scuanor> errm ,to the right library i meant, sorry.
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03:08:38  <Scuanor> uhm... did i say something wrong?
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03:57:02  <Scuanor> hmmm
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04:01:10  <glx> Scuanor: you have a path problem, or the wrong libs
04:01:52  <Scuanor> glx: yes, i lack though the knowledge to find out, how to fix it.
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04:02:18  <glx> where did you put extract openttd_useful?
04:03:51  <Scuanor> im very sure from:
04:03:57  <Scuanor> ouch
04:03:59  <Scuanor> sorry
04:04:06  <Scuanor> that wasnt your question
04:04:33  <Scuanor> well, actually it was, just the wrong answer
04:05:43  <Scuanor> glx: i put them into a folder i made, which includes the SVN C:\!openttd063source\!MSVC8\vc and there into the correspondending lib and include folders
04:06:07  <Scuanor> ( the pathname isnt fitting, i know, as it is latest SVN, not 0.63)
04:06:54  <glx> and you set MSVC to search them there?
04:07:42  <Scuanor> glx: it is included in the options as searchpath, yes. by specific path, not environmentvariable
04:08:25  <Scuanor> like "C:\!openttd063source\!MSVC8\vc\include" for includes
04:09:01  <Scuanor> by the way, whats the name of "includes"? its not the right term, no?
04:10:50  <glx> so in include you have freetype, unicode and 5 files
04:11:24  <glx> anyway includes are correct else there is compile errors
04:11:39  <Scuanor> glx: actually also everything else. i copied over all needed libs and includes
04:11:56  <glx> did you full rebuild?
04:12:24  <Scuanor> i did a cleaned rebuild with debugmode
04:13:53  <glx> did it work before?
04:15:18  <Scuanor> the file is at C:\!openttd063source\objs\Win32\Debug\fontcache.obj. and it is a newly created one, so, it isnt really not there. yes, at some time it worked. i am not able to say though, at which point.
04:16:11  <Scuanor> i did not change though folders or pathvariables, just downloaded the SVN
04:17:12  <glx> and you get only one link error?
04:17:48  <Scuanor> glx:
04:18:12  <Scuanor> so basically yes.
04:21:55  <glx> weird
04:22:24  <glx> I have no problems with vc8 nor vc9
04:23:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15438 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r15434): MSVC performance warning
04:24:04  <Scuanor> it definetly has to do with the fontcache, yes? i read somewhere, that sometimes errors are only appearing in some place, but their origin might be elsewhere
04:24:37  <glx> freetype is used only there :)
04:24:46  <Scuanor> °snickers° thats funny, just as i am rebuilding i came about that performance warning just some secs ago
04:25:45  <glx> I think the only thing to try is to remove openttd_useful completely and reinstall it
04:26:51  <Scuanor> hm, as i merged it with all the other things, that would be complicated. wouldnt it be the same, if i just copyover it? ( which i did already today )
04:27:07  <Scuanor> or do i need to build freetype meself?
04:28:40  <Scuanor> oh, i can of course delete the whole freetype folder and paste it again
04:29:10  <SpComb> <-- I'm interested in hearing peoples' feedback on this
04:29:16  <glx> that can work too as the problem is clearly with freetype
04:29:27  <SpComb> it's starting to be kind of feature-complete now, although the logs don't actually get updated yet
04:30:01  <SpComb> but hopefully I'll be able to replace my old IRC logs soon enough
04:30:09  <glx> I was about to say that ;)
04:33:13  <Scuanor> glx: maybe... maybe i have a pathproblem with a different project that uses a different version of freetype...checking...
04:33:53  <glx> check the path order
04:35:23  <Scuanor> i just corrected it, yes. rebuilding...
04:36:25  <Scuanor> °grins° funny thing is, i basically have no clue whatsoever about programming, i just do this all to realize a tiny idea i had
04:36:47  <Scuanor> but... in the wake of getting this build and compiled, i learned already quite much
04:37:28  <Scuanor> aaand. voila! no errors. not even that stationcommandwarning Oo
04:37:37  <glx> compiling by yourself is already a good start :)
04:38:30  <Scuanor> which is weird. the first time i build today it wasnt there, the second time it was, now its gone again that warning. oh... no, still there, it just doesnt get displayed in the outputwindow
04:39:08  <glx> svn up :)
04:39:21  <glx> I fixed it
04:39:52  <Scuanor> i know :o)
04:40:13  <Scuanor> hm, now... where to put that exe? in 0.63? or last nightly?
04:40:27  <Scuanor> aka is last nightly the same as the last SVN?=
04:40:57  <glx> last nightly is older :)
04:41:49  <glx> anyway time to sleep for me
04:42:09  <Scuanor> thank you very much, glx :o))
04:42:13  <Scuanor> and a good night to you
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07:19:21  <petern> professor
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07:21:27  <petern> who's preparing for 2009/02/13 23:31:30 celebrations?
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08:07:04  <Rubidium> there's not much special about that moment here
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08:13:35  <petern> who's preparing for 2009/02/13 23:31:30 GMT celebrations?
08:13:44  <petern> :o
08:18:33  <Forked> 1234567890?
08:22:15  <dihedral> morning
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08:22:24  <Brianetta> I celebrated 12:34:56 7/8/90
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08:22:28  <Brianetta> Not much will top that
08:22:50  <Brianetta> I was in north Wales at the time, visiting my mum's parents
08:23:48  <dihedral> so basically your grandparents?
08:23:56  <Brianetta> yes; I was making it more specific
08:24:07  <Brianetta> ruling out my extremely rich grandparents
08:24:10  <dihedral> just checking :-P
08:24:44  <Brianetta> I only have one surviving grandparent now )-:
08:25:01  <Brianetta> She's extremely rich
08:26:03  <dihedral> i only ever new my grandparents from my mothers side
08:26:19  <dihedral> they live in Richmond :-P
08:26:39  <dihedral> lovely place
08:27:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know the grandparents from my father's side. they died before i was born
08:28:16  <Eddi|zuHause> actually, that is not entirely true, my grandfather died before that, my grandmother afterwards
08:28:32  <Eddi|zuHause> but i was quite young back then
08:29:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i do have faint memories of a flat with an oven (no central heating)
08:38:59  <dihedral> <- oh my word!
08:39:31  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, same here - appart from the faint memories :-P
08:39:58  <dihedral> that kid from the post has like 45122 lines in his single (real) source file
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08:42:18  <el_en> i have faint memory of seeing my great-grandmother alive.
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08:56:48  <dihedral> odd - my eyes must be going bust... i dont c smallfly very #
08:57:03  * dihedral grins
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08:57:49  <Perfk> Morning all. can anyone tell me what the difference between the Nightly build, and the openTTD build?
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09:00:41  <Roest> morning
09:01:31  <dihedral> morning Roest
09:01:54  <dihedral> Perfk, may i give you a hint?
09:02:08  <dihedral> try comparing release dates of the nightly builds and the sable builds
09:02:25  <Roest> i want a hint as well
09:02:44  <dihedral> and while looking at the _nightly_ builds, contemplate why they could possibly be called _nightlies_
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09:02:59  <dihedral> Roest, it's Layer 8
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09:15:39  <smallfly> [09:53] <dihedral> odd - my eyes must be going bust... i dont c smallfly very # <-- ;-)
09:16:45  <petern> what is an "openttd build"?
09:16:56  <smallfly> what is openttd?
09:17:02  <petern> who knows
09:18:39  <Rubidium> the wiki?
09:19:06  <dihedral> petern, i believe Perfk means a stable build
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09:19:49  <petern> dihedral, never assume ;)
09:21:11  * Rubidium wonders why dihedral didn't send Perfk to the wiki as it is a frequently asked question
09:21:56  <dihedral> Rubidium, i already sent him in here, because i wanted to stop him from asking in my games channel
09:23:01  <petern> hmm, why didn't we ever release 0.6.4...
09:23:59  <Perfk> wee. iam popular :)
09:24:30  <petern> @openttd commit 14455
09:24:31  <DorpsGek> petern: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
09:24:34  <petern> :o
09:25:24  <Rubidium> petern: because nobody could be arsed to figure out what to backport, to actually backport and go through the whole release thingy?
09:26:38  <petern> hehe
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09:27:21  <dihedral> Rubidium, just release 0.6.3 as 0.6.4 and say it's a bug fix release :-D
09:27:40  <Forked> What's new:
09:27:47  <Forked> * Checking if our users actually read this list
09:27:54  <dihedral> hihi
09:27:57  <dihedral> they would :-S
09:28:01  <petern> dihedral: there is one bug fix
09:28:11  <dihedral> well, that's at least not a lie then
09:28:22  <dihedral> is the udp fix in there?
09:28:44  <dihedral> that could be backported (is fairly straight forward :-P)
09:31:40  <Rubidium> what udp fix?
09:34:05  <dihedral> the one where the game does not send client names in the udp packets anymore
09:34:12  <dihedral> packet version 5
09:34:15  <dihedral> instead of 4
09:34:49  <Rubidium> under what rock have you been living?
09:35:55  <Rubidium> or is there another issue you haven't made us aware of?
09:35:58  <planetmaker> morning
09:36:27  <petern> FS#mentioned-once-in-some-IRC-channel-when-nobody-was-around
09:37:44  <dihedral>
09:37:50  <dihedral>
09:39:52  <dihedral> wait...
09:40:13  <dihedral> has that already been released?
09:40:37  <Rubidium> depends on what already means
09:40:55  <dihedral> in any stable release
09:41:28  <Rubidium> yeah, but only since uhm... like 0.6.2
09:42:06  <Rubidium> which is basically the (only) reason why debian lenny has 0.6.2 instead of 0.6.1
09:42:43  <Rubidium> apparantly the bugfixes in 0.6.3 weren't crash fixes
09:43:15  <dihedral> lol
09:43:18  <dihedral> i am behind
09:43:20  <Rubidium> hmm... actually there are crash fixes
09:43:29  <Rubidium> in 0.6.3
09:43:33  <petern> how's our debian repo going?
09:44:00  <Rubidium> ah well... debian-release denied blathijs' request
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09:44:19  <Rubidium> petern: like mempools
09:44:31  <petern> oh
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09:44:39  <petern> do mempools still need to be rewritten?
09:45:03  <petern> they've already had been rewritten somewhat since the original...
09:47:36  <Rubidium> I don't quite remember what the issues with the original were that should get fixed by the new one and what's already fixed in the current one
09:48:03  <petern> i think the main thing wanted was sparse pools, but i don't know why anymore
09:48:12  <petern> doesn't seem necessary
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09:50:44  <petern> i think since the C++-ization it is no longer needed
09:51:28  <petern> i love bjarni's first comment... when did NPF ever use pools...
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10:10:52  <blathijs> petern: The main advantage of my rewrite was that things are explicitely freed when they are destroyed
10:11:37  <blathijs> petern: The original pools "freed" a station by settion its id to 0 (or something like that), and then allocating a station looped all stations until it found one that has id 0
10:12:17  <blathijs> petern: My rewrite used a chain of free stations so allocation was O(1) instead of O(n)
10:13:03  <blathijs> petern: It also separated the allocation of stations and the allocation of station indexes
10:13:44  <blathijs> petern: Meaning you can use a pool for other things than indexed items (like buckets in a hashmap). This was originally the motivation behind rewriting the pools, since NPF spent quite some time free'ing and malloc'ing
10:15:55  <petern> so basically an internal memory allocator
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10:29:54  <blathijs> petern: Yeah, because free and malloc need to work for any size allocation, they are not as efficient as they can be for allocating lots of (small) same sized blocks
10:30:02  <dihedral> blathijs, that sounds pretty awesome
10:30:34  <petern> hmm, well, one improvement i can think of for pools is variable size items, so...
10:31:10  <petern> the SpriteGroup pool is quite wasteful in some cases
10:32:16  <blathijs> petern: If you really need variable sized items, you should probably just use malloc and free
10:32:33  <blathijs> petern: Unless you have a few fixed sizes, then pools might still be useful (but then just a few pools)
10:32:36  <petern> these are pool items anyway
10:34:47  <petern> the smallest item is 2 bytes
10:35:44  <petern> the largest is 24 (or 32 on 64bit) bytes
10:36:55  <petern> even then malloc is also used :)
10:37:52  <petern> Rubidium: does using tinyenumt affect performance?
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10:49:33  <Rubidium> petern: I reckon it might, although technically it should be the difference between int and byte in performance
10:49:50  <Rubidium> where int is whatever the compiler thinks is the best
10:55:42  <TinoDidriksen> And where int is fastest. Using smaller types is rarely a speed gain.
10:57:48  <Rubidium> using tinyenumt whereever you used byte shouldn't be a problem, but I'm not 100% sure about that; you need to look at the assembly differences
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12:36:12  <Gekz> manhugs
12:36:16  <Gekz> for the first man to demand one
12:37:20  <petern> are yours like bearhugs?
12:37:53  <Gekz> ... sure
12:38:10  <Gekz> except instead of claws
12:38:12  <Gekz> you get all sticky
12:38:27  <dihedral> Gekz is hairy :-P
12:38:33  <dihedral> fuzz-butt
12:38:40  <Gekz> I dont have fuzzbutt anymore
12:38:43  <Gekz> I plucked them all
12:38:45  <Gekz> one by one I did
12:38:52  <Gekz> then poured gratuitous amounts of alcohol
12:38:56  <dihedral> "not by the hair on my fuzzy butt butt"
12:38:59  <Gekz> onto the affected area for maximum effect
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12:49:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15439 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2626]: call Vehicle::LeaveStation() before reversing overlength loading train (station triggers were missed, PBS reservation could cause crash)
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13:11:36  <planetmaker> he... seems there are website issues again?
13:12:04  <FauxFaux> In/deed/.
13:12:24  <PierreW> it/died/
13:12:47  <FauxFaux> In/deed/.
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13:12:54  <PierreW> oh/noes/.
13:12:59  <petern> what sort of issues?
13:13:15  <SmatZ> site is up again
13:13:17  <FauxFaux> Fixed now, was getting "connection refused" iirc.
13:13:41  <Forked> shut up
13:13:43  <Forked> :p
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13:21:26  <Zahl> can i set the delay until chat messages disappear from screen?
13:22:09  <FauxFaux> No.
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13:23:47  <Zahl> hm ok *digs into source*
13:24:04  <FauxFaux> They're displaed for 10 days.
13:24:34  <Zahl> yeah
13:24:43  <Zahl> that kinda sucks if you made days last 20 times longer :P
13:24:54  <FauxFaux> Ah. :P  I can't remember why I looked.
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13:34:01  <mauricio13> oi
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13:57:19  * dihedral estao principe sapo
13:57:22  <dihedral> :-P
13:58:08  <Sacro> english only
13:58:18  * Chrill håller med Sacro
13:58:49  <Sacro> what's with all the (incompatible encoding)
13:58:55  <Sacro> are you not using utf8?
13:59:03  * dihedral is
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14:00:46  * Chrill doesn't know
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14:02:30  <Sacro> Chrill: what irc client?
14:03:23  <Chrill> mIRC
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14:42:17  <welshdragon> Chrill:  yes, mirc supports utf8
14:44:08  <planetmaker> are there somewhat recent systems which don't support UTF8?
14:45:47  <petern> windows?
14:47:11  <Rubidium> OSX?
14:48:13  <planetmaker> Rubidium: I never had problems on any of my computers with it... at least somewhat recently. My old windows might have...
14:48:30  <planetmaker> My Mac did (and does again :) )
14:48:37  <Rubidium> then why doesn OSX need iconv when we use UTF8 internally?
14:48:42  <Belugas> sincere condoleances
14:48:47  <dihedral> Rubidium, osx supports utf8!!
14:49:40  <planetmaker> Rubidium: I don't know iconv. But my text editors, browsers, mail progs, all handle utf8 nicely there. As does OpenTTD :)
14:50:23  <planetmaker> It needs only selecting the proper one afaik...
14:50:24  <dihedral> i have never had an issue like Sacro did with errors due to missing iconv
14:50:33  <Sacro> hmm
14:50:41  * dihedral pats Sacro on the head
14:50:51  <Sacro> i have to do --with-iconv=/usr/local
14:51:36  <petern> dihedral misses the point :D
14:51:44  <petern> iconv is needed because OSX *doesn't* support UTF8...
14:52:03  <petern> it has its own special encoding for filesystem stuff.
14:52:28  <planetmaker> hm... well. iconv seems to be part of the standard installation then.
14:54:02  <dihedral> petern, iconv was mentioned, the only time i picked up on iconv in combination with openttd was when Sacro mentioned issues he was having
14:54:14  <Sacro> yup
14:54:28  <planetmaker> anycase I never worried about iconv...
14:54:40  <petern> sacro has lots of issues
14:54:48  <dihedral> well, yeah
14:54:48  <planetmaker> :D
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