Log for #openttd on 30th August 2009:
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00:34:45  * AC6000 eats a few sunflower seeds
00:57:47  <AC6000> A hunter was rushed into the emergency room with a bear trap clamped onto his testicles. As the horrified doctor was examining him, he said "Man, how did this happen?"   The hunter explains that he was out in the woods and felt the call of nature. Bending down by a tree, the bear trap was triggered and snapped shut on his testicles. "Oh," exclaims the doctor, "The pain must have been excruciating!"   "It was," said the hunter. "The second worst pain in my li
01:02:32  <glx> I want the end of the story
01:06:44  <AC6000> whered it end?
01:08:35  <AC6000> Oh," exclaims the doctor, "The pain must have been excruciating!"   "It was," said the hunter. "The second worst pain in my life."   "Second worst? What could have been worse than that?"   "Coming to the end of the chain" said the hunter. :P
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01:41:20  <welshdragon> well, that was a good translating session :)
01:41:38  <welshdragon> 16 strings pending for Welsh
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04:11:55  <Tefad> is there a hard production max for secondary industries?
04:13:46  <Tefad> also is production directly proportional to accepted cargo?
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05:25:01  <planetmaker> Tefad: there's a limit and by default it's proportional
05:42:27  <Tefad> k. i have refinery pumping out 12k goods/month
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06:07:09  <planetmaker> you can have more
06:07:18  <planetmaker> I think up to twice as much or so. roughly
06:07:24  <planetmaker> but not entirely sure.
06:08:01  <planetmaker> but iirc I've seen 17k/month for refinery and 24k/month for factory
06:12:46  <planetmaker> but if you play with non-default industries, probably values of up to 64k are possible and any connection between input and output is possible
06:23:56  <Tefad> cool.
06:27:06  <planetmaker> we have some games in the PublicServer archive of #openttdcoop where we tried to maximize factory / refinery output
06:27:20  <planetmaker> maybe you're interested to have a look at them :-)
06:27:51  <planetmaker>
06:28:12  <planetmaker> The numbers you find there are those I (may or may not) remember
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06:40:29  <Nekomaster> Hello
06:40:47  <Nekomaster> :|
06:41:32  <Nekomaster> Anyone around to help me with something?
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06:55:40  <HerzogDeXtEr1> can somebody tell me, why it isn't possible to reach with the browser opera but with firefox it is possible. note: it's the same computer, no proxy configurations activated...
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07:25:37  <Terkhen> good morning
07:26:19  <Alberth> that's what we hope to achieve, yes
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07:51:33  <planetmaker> lol.... fail@Nikomaster
07:52:03  <planetmaker> moin also from here :-)
07:57:02  <Alberth> good morning :)
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08:10:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17314 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17313): Allow the picker window to change size.
08:15:32  <Ammler> something I have learned on irc, moin != morning :-)
08:15:47  <Ammler> and good morning from here
08:16:41  <planetmaker> hehe :-) moin Ammler
08:31:38  <_ln> hejd?
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08:33:27  <planetmaker> hm... google doesn't know my processor family. Or something is wrong in how I try to obtain it...
08:38:53  <Alberth> google also doesn't know what moin means ;)
08:42:46  <planetmaker> it does ;-)
08:43:20  <planetmaker>
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08:44:55  <planetmaker> first entry is actually what I consider a short, but more or less accurate description of its meaning and origin
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08:48:57  <Alberth> tnx
08:50:09  <Alberth> The guy doesn't know Dutch: ..." 'n mooien dag wensch ik u " (Nederlands).    <--- we write 'wens', not 'wensch' :)
08:52:40  <planetmaker> :-)
08:54:18  <_ln> is 'plein' pronounced plein or plain?
09:02:19  <planetmaker> depends upon how the latter two are pronounced in your understanding ;-)
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09:06:45  <planetmaker> hm... I'm pretty sure that a core2duo shouldn't say it's a i486 - even if it could emulate it.
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09:25:15  <Alberth> hmm, how to loose all my money as fast as possible?
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09:26:55  <_ln> planetmaker: let's take the phonemes /a/ and /e/ which should be unambiguous.
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09:27:30  <planetmaker> Alberth: just make a wire transfer of all your money to my account
09:28:08  <planetmaker> ingame OpenTTD: cheat menu and then terraform ocean
09:28:14  <planetmaker> with what remains
09:28:33  <planetmaker> or build insane tunnels once accross the map
09:30:29  <_ln> in other words, is "..ei.." pronounced similary in dutch as in german, or not?
09:31:41  <Alberth> raising half the world to the highest possible level does the trick :)
09:31:57  <Alberth> also stopped all my vehicles.
09:32:10  <Alberth> that should get me into trouble with the bank :)
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09:35:10  <_ln> curious that no one here seems to know about the basics of dutch pronunciation.
09:36:28  <Alberth> maybe you should try #dutch :)
09:37:47  <Alberth> I know dutch, but never learned about pronunciation and never bothered to, since I know how to say the words. Such information is often in a dictionary. Tried that?
09:38:32  <_ln> negative.
09:38:59  <_ln> besides, i think this channel has higher .nl percentage than any potential #dutch.
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09:54:28  <TrueBrain> lovely, a spam-network is active which only uses from-domains which have +all in their SPF record
09:55:27  <Xaroth> o_O
10:00:17  <TrueBrain> problem about SPF libs, is that they say SPF passed with +all .. I think it is more a 'none' statement
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10:16:42  <TrueBrain> okay .. time to install 10.4, 10.5 and 10.6 OSX .. lets see if I can get either to work :)
10:17:20  <jolterN> Hi, i have newly installed open TTD.. and when im starting a new game, i cant build train rails/station nor a station for my vehicles.. currently using windows 7 RTM x64.. any on now what the problem could be ?
10:17:36  <Alberth> what year do you start?
10:17:49  <jolterN> default
10:17:51  <jolterN> 1900 i tihkn
10:17:53  <jolterN> think*
10:17:55  <Rubidium> 1900 isn't default
10:18:09  <Alberth> try 1950 or later
10:18:15  <Rubidium> 1950 is the default
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10:18:53  <Alberth> or wait 50 years :)
10:19:16  <jolterN> that kinda fixed it ;o
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10:19:38  <jolterN> thank you, i allmost threw my comp out the window :P
10:19:55  <Alberth> without vehicles there is little to build :)
10:20:23  <Alberth> for such a minor problem already? You must buy new computer regularly then.
10:21:10  <jolterN> haha nope, but when i installed the game the first time.. and i started a new game, the date was 1st january 1900
10:21:28  <jolterN> so i just couldnt figure out why i couldnt build anything but roads :D
10:21:29  <TrueBrain> cosmic rays are a bitch
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10:35:57  <Eddi|zuHause> <Alberth> hmm, how to loose all my money as fast as possible? <- you can use the money cheat in two directions ;)
10:36:51  <Alberth> oh? nice.
10:37:00  <Eddi|zuHause> <_ln> in other words, is "..ei.." pronounced similary in dutch as in german, or not? <- in german, 'ei' and 'ai' are pronounced the same way
10:37:06  <tb> 30 minutes to install OSX 10.5.6 ... pff .... :p Hihi :) Lalalalalalaa la, lalalalalala la!
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10:39:16  <Eddi|zuHause> (there are also 'ey' and 'ay', but those practically only occur in names)
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10:39:44  <MyCatVerbs> Alberth: that or just ERASE the ENTIRE OCEAN. :)
10:40:02  <KingJ> * Attempt to erase the entire ocean
10:40:47  <Alberth> it was a arctic climate, very little water :)
10:42:04  <MyCatVerbs> Alberth: Create an entire ocean! Then erase. :)
10:42:36  <Alberth> I am already broke, and got good looking news item windows about it
10:42:51  <MyCatVerbs> Cool beans.
10:42:57  <Weirdo> bah, beans
10:43:25  <Weirdo> 5 minutes in the 30 minutes install, and 10 minutes are left :p
10:43:57  <Alberth> Weirdo: so you will have to wait another 15 minutes before you can use it :p
10:44:13  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: btw. stopping all vehicles means you don't pay running costs
10:44:31  <Weirdo> and I have the wrong 10.4 stuff ...
10:44:42  <Rubidium> PPC? :)
10:44:51  * Rubidium wonders when Weirdo regresses even further :)
10:45:11  <Weirdo> haha, don';t even know about that, just that I have .zip with in it .iso, in 4 CDs .. instead of .dmg files :p
10:45:53  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: is that possible? :p
10:46:39  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yes
10:48:17  <Weirdo> tnx you both
10:48:33  <Eddi|zuHause> you're welcome
10:49:13  <Eddi|zuHause> usb 1-2: new full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and address 7
10:49:15  <Eddi|zuHause> usb 1-2: device descriptor read/64, error -62
10:49:21  <Eddi|zuHause> anybody knows what that means?
10:49:39  <Rubidium> check errno.h 62
10:49:51  <Eddi|zuHause> has a few more similar errors, and ends with
10:49:53  <Eddi|zuHause> hub 1-0:1.0: unable to enumerate USB device on port 2
10:50:14  <Weirdo> karma is a bitch
10:50:27  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause:  'perror 62'
10:50:43  <Weirdo> whoho, it is installing all kinds of languages I will never use ... :p
10:50:51  <Weirdo> Even Korean!
10:51:00  <TinoDidriksen> Weirdo, you can remove those later.
10:51:02  <Alberth> Weirdo: installing firefox? :)
10:51:16  <Weirdo> TinoDidriksen: a bit silly to first install stuff you can remove later ;)
10:51:45  <Alberth> Weirdo: the system needs a way to decide your HD is big enough :p
10:51:49  <TinoDidriksen> Weirdo, it's to Apple the easiest way...most want it to Just Work, not to have to choose things to install.
10:52:10  <Eddi|zuHause> "Input past end of File" error #62 <- that's what google says
10:53:30  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: 'perror 62' says 'OS error code  62:  Timer expired' here
10:53:55  <welshdragon> argh, i've set vehicles never expire on, but some of my trains have disappeared already :(
10:54:07  <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: "resetengines"
10:54:16  <welshdragon> in console?
10:54:31  <Eddi|zuHause> no, on the cake
10:54:35  <Weirdo> TinoDidriksen: so an 'advanced' button would have been perfect! ;)
10:54:42  <welshdragon> thanks eddi
10:55:10  <Weirdo> found a retail 10.4.8 Intel DVD .. yippie!
10:58:04  <Eddi|zuHause> weird... it works with a shorter usb cable...
10:58:56  <Fast2> Hello
11:00:48  <Alberth> hello
11:01:08  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: bits then do not need to travel so far :p
11:01:41  <Alberth> more likely, you get less interference from other electric devices nearby.
11:01:44  <Weirdo> means they are faster
11:01:46  <Weirdo> and do not time out
11:01:52  <Weirdo> like the pigeon protocol
11:03:45  <Eddi|zuHause> how much interference could there be from a speaker, a 16V transformator, a ventilator and an open computer case?
11:03:58  <Weirdo> depends on the speaker
11:04:08  <Weirdo> if it is an unshielded bass-box, it can be up to 1m :p
11:04:08  <KingJ> depends if you've got any shielding on the wires too
11:05:52  <planetmaker> Rubidium: you said yesterday(?) that routines in order to reliably get the CPU are available readily on macos. Anything specific which you had in mind?
11:05:54  <Eddi|zuHause> it's the secondary speaker, should not have any active components, and is not playing anything
11:06:22  <Eddi|zuHause> the transformator is running idle
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11:08:13  <planetmaker> in principle I expected
11:08:15  <planetmaker> const NXArchInfo *this_arch = NXGetLocalArchInfo();
11:08:16  <planetmaker> printf("Name: %s, Description: %s, Type: %d, Subtype: %d\n",this_arch->name,this_arch->description,this_arch->cputype,this_arch->cpusubtype);
11:08:18  <planetmaker> to work. But then I'd have an 80486 here...
11:09:04  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, could really be interference, i placed the cable differently, and now it works
11:09:55  <Weirdo> planetmaker: what is wrong with a 486?
11:10:02  <Weirdo> what CPU do you have?
11:10:38  <planetmaker> well... I'd say something like i686 :-) (core2duo)
11:11:05  <Rubidium> planetmaker: I did?
11:11:42  <Weirdo> planetmaker: either way, the comment was that the switch-case was poor, to say the least
11:11:46  <planetmaker> well... kinda :)
11:12:03  <Weirdo> it had no pre-checks in cputype and runs only a very small subset of cpusubtypes
11:12:13  <planetmaker> yes
11:12:27  <Weirdo> it 'estimates' if it is a G4 or G5 or what ever .. while that is useless information. Instead, it should just print the exact CPU used
11:12:33  <planetmaker> and the default routines which I could find... are not much better.
11:12:45  <Weirdo> (for all I care in numeric value)
11:13:04  <Weirdo> the other problem was OS version reporting, which reported the wrong version for you
11:13:06  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i guess it's more likely the cable is broken
11:13:16  <planetmaker> Weirdo: that, I have solved IMO
11:13:39  <Rubidium> the problem was more that if it doesn't know what it is it returns unknown instead of the numeric value that can be looked up later
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11:14:03  <Weirdo> bah, 10.6 install failed
11:14:14  <planetmaker> Ok. Then I'll implement a more generic, non-custom version and return in case of doubt the CPU-ID, type and subtype
11:14:24  <planetmaker> that's easy
11:14:45  <Weirdo> planetmaker: the more specific that data is, the easier
11:14:51  <planetmaker> yup
11:15:01  <planetmaker> but if it can be human readable, the better :-)
11:15:07  <Weirdo> if the error is in one of the two CPU-types used for G4, the current information doesn't tell you which ;)
11:15:31  <Weirdo> for sure true :) I wonder if there isn't a simple lookup for that ... else it will be one long switch ;)
11:16:56  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, maybe i should have initiated a copy of 500GB size during the night...
11:17:44  <planetmaker> There is a simple lookup.
11:17:51  <Weirdo> good :)
11:17:57  <planetmaker> The one call I posted a few lines above
11:18:03  <Weirdo> planetmaker: but as said, there is a lot of cleanup to do in those files :)
11:18:10  <planetmaker> I know
11:18:11  <Weirdo> planetmaker: that gives numeric values, not?
11:18:23  <planetmaker> it does all. numeric and description
11:18:29  <Weirdo> ah, good :)
11:18:29  <planetmaker> it's a struct
11:18:51  <Weirdo> can you give me a small program which does that?
11:18:55  <Weirdo> then I can see what it returns here ;)
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11:19:14  <MyCatVerbs> Why is it that you need to know the exact CPU, anyway?
11:19:50  <Weirdo> because mostly bugs are OS specific, but in a few rare cases they are CPU specific
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11:22:10  <Weirdo> planetmaker: or tell me where the this_info came from
11:22:25  <Weirdo> this_arch
11:22:25  <Weirdo> lol
11:22:49  <planetmaker> what do you mean?
11:22:56  <Weirdo> I want to see what it returns here
11:23:00  <Weirdo> and that printf alone doens't work :p
11:23:01  <planetmaker> I'll give you a patch in a few minutes
11:23:05  <Weirdo> so what is this_arch :)
11:23:09  <Weirdo> no, I don't want to compile OpenTTD :p
11:23:15  <planetmaker> ok, wait.
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11:27:17  <Fast2> Hmmm, why is it not possible to select which cargo a train should (un-)load? Is there no need (of others)?
11:28:02  <planetmaker> <-- even that programme is too long, Weirdo
11:28:09  <Weirdo> hmm, ->name tend to return ppc over ppc970 .. so planetmaker , for sure the numeric values need to be there too :)
11:28:12  <planetmaker> and it can do with less defines and includes
11:29:13  <Weirdo> BomFileError 13: Permission denied - /Volumes/OSX 10.6//System/Library/Extensions/hp_Photosmart_io_enabler.kext <- wtf?
11:29:27  <planetmaker> :-P
11:29:29  <Eddi|zuHause> Fast2: most people run single-cargo-trains
11:30:08  <Alberth> Fast2: no, usually the number of cargos available for loading is limited enough
11:31:17  <Weirdo> why would it say that ... space in the path?
11:35:02  <planetmaker> spaces need escaping
11:35:40  <Weirdo> Name: i486, Description: Intel 80486, Type: 7, Subtype: 4
11:35:46  <Weirdo> planetmaker: it is the INSTALLER fucking this up ;)
11:35:57  <Weirdo> planetmaker: the GetProcessor thingy doens't work .. the linker can't find it :(
11:35:58  <planetmaker> maybe :-)
11:36:00  <planetmaker> dunno
11:36:11  <planetmaker> uhm. remove that.
11:36:23  <planetmaker> it's a self-written routine which I wanted to have removed there
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11:37:14  <planetmaker> And: I have the same CPU type by that definition
11:37:15  <Weirdo> <- my stripped down version of yours :p :p
11:37:28  <Weirdo> planetmaker: I have a core2duo
11:37:35  <planetmaker> well. no wonder then :-)
11:37:48  <Weirdo> just wanted to know if it also worked as expected on a normal PC :p
11:37:54  <planetmaker> and, as said, I have there more cpu tests in my file.
11:37:59  <planetmaker> but they all don't know my cpu
11:38:26  <Weirdo> remember we only need to know the type, mostly: ppc, i?68 and x86_64
11:38:49  <planetmaker> you'll get the cpufamily ID
11:38:57  <planetmaker> processor type and subtype
11:39:07  <Weirdo> even a 64bit version works :)
11:39:09  <planetmaker> and an honest effort to get a name for that :-P
11:39:24  <planetmaker> The api sais that it works with x64
11:40:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17315 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move code related to industry types to separate file
11:41:14  <Weirdo> planetmaker: it does ;) But it also amazes me that on this 32bit kernel I can execute 64bit code :p
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11:41:44  <planetmaker> :-P
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11:42:29  <Weirdo> but okay, I found the first bug in the 10.6 installer :p
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11:43:03  <Weirdo> is it 10.6.0 or 10.6.1, the Retail version?
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11:47:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17316 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: use Industry::GetByTile() instead of GetIndustryByTile()
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11:56:24  <planetmaker> 	return "Processor: %s (ID %x, Type %d, Subtype %d)",family_str, cpufam, cputype, cpusub) <-- what's a good way to achieve something like this (which obviously won't pars)
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11:56:38  <Eddi|zuHause> hmm... what things you find when you watch random old directories copying...
11:56:55  <Eddi|zuHause> my old pascal programs...
11:57:11  <Eddi|zuHause> that must be 15 years ago...
12:02:13  <Weirdo> hmm ... even without a space 10.6 fails .. weird ..
12:02:25  <Weirdo> planetmaker: _very_ tricky ;)
12:02:47  <Weirdo> either give a buffer via a parameter, or return a temporary string via strdup() (which has to be free'd by the caller)
12:03:08  <Weirdo> I always like the first, as then the memory management is 100% at the caller, others like the second, although people tend to forget the 'free' ;)
12:03:34  <planetmaker> but it doesn't work as return value?
12:03:44  <Weirdo> you can't return a char[100], no
12:03:51  <planetmaker> char*
12:03:53  <planetmaker> ?
12:04:02  <Weirdo> yes, but then you have my second option
12:04:11  <Weirdo> (you can't return a local char[100], as it is local!)
12:04:35  <planetmaker> well, it works, but - it generates a warning for a reason.
12:04:42  <planetmaker> ok, then via parameter
12:04:46  <Weirdo> { char buf[100]; return buf; } <- not good
12:04:58  <Weirdo> { char buf[100]; return strdup(buf); } <- good, but requires 'free'
12:05:36  <Eddi|zuHause> isn't there stuff like smart pointer nowadays?
12:05:44  <Weirdo> the first case works in 90% of the cases, but that is using free'd memory :)
12:06:06  <Weirdo> Eddi|zuHause: possible, and maybe OpenTTD even contains such code here and there .. but it is slow and ugly, if you ask me :)
12:07:19  <Weirdo> maybe Rubidium or SmatZ  have a good suggestion
12:07:29  <Eddi|zuHause> man... copying many small files is extremely slow...
12:07:39  <Weirdo> Eddi|zuHause: use reiserfs :p
12:08:07  <Rubidium> use dd
12:08:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe it's from ntfs to encrypted ext3
12:08:47  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's way slower than copying big files of the same size...
12:09:16  <Weirdo> strangly enough OSX 10.6 now failed on another file then a moment ago .. .weird ..
12:10:07  <Weirdo> BomFileError 13: Permission denied - /Volumes/OSX-10.6//System/Library/Extensions/hp_Inkjet8_io_enabler.kext <- the time bfore it was the Photosmart ...
12:10:59  <Weirdo> wait, I manually created that dir :p
12:11:00  <Weirdo> hehe
12:14:05  <Fast2> Eddi|zuHause , Alberth: Then I must be the fault. I want to use trains to complicated :D ... :(
12:14:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Fast2: well, you must somewhere make a compromise between complexity, handleability and learning curve
12:15:24  <Eddi|zuHause> that, and the time it takes to implement
12:16:15  <Alberth> Fast2: using 1 train for 1 type of cargo makes the number of trains grow faster, ie the complexity shifts to handling a large number of trains
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12:16:41  <Weirdo> hmm .. OSX releases are named weird ... planetmaker, did you ever noticed that? opentd-0 ..?
12:16:56  <planetmaker> hm...?
12:17:10  <Weirdo> or is it my download .. hmm..
12:17:10  <planetmaker> what's the coding style convention for constucts like "void GetProcessorType(char (*ret_strg)[150])  "
12:17:18  <Fast2> Hmpf. Do you know a SVN-client which is fast to download, fast to install (and fast to remove)?
12:17:33  <planetmaker> svnclient maybe?
12:17:36  <Weirdo> planetmaker: wtf are you trying?
12:17:42  <Weirdo> oh, that
12:17:43  <Weirdo> lol
12:17:48  <planetmaker> Weirdo: ... :-)
12:17:48  <Weirdo> sorry, I was thinking a function-pointer for a moment :p
12:17:52  <Weirdo> and char **ret_strg
12:18:00  <Weirdo> well .. that is the C way :p
12:18:21  <Weirdo> your () are wrong either way :) It is a 150 char ret_strg, which you have a pointer to
12:18:24  <Weirdo> now a pointer to 150 entries :p
12:18:33  <planetmaker> :-P
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12:19:01  <Alberth> Fast2: plain subversion
12:19:30  <Alberth> Anything else is built on that, so it only gets bigger and/or slower
12:20:18  <planetmaker> Weirdo: ... uhm, no?
12:20:28  <Weirdo> no to what?
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12:21:06  <planetmaker> 	char CPU[150];
12:21:08  <planetmaker> 	GetProcessorType(&CPU);
12:21:10  <planetmaker> void GetProcessorType(char (*ret_strg)[150])
12:21:10  <Weirdo> Rubidium: what way do you prefer? char * via param, or return of strdup()? (or do you have a better suggestion)
12:21:20  <Weirdo> planetmaker: as I said: your () are wrong for sure
12:21:22  <Weirdo> or use char **
12:21:32  <Weirdo> but you now have a pointer to a char, and 150 ones of them
12:21:36  <andythenorth> afternoon
12:21:38  <Weirdo> which is silly, to say the least
12:21:38  <planetmaker> changing the braces doesn't compile
12:21:46  <Weirdo> so use char ** :)
12:21:52  <Weirdo> randomly placing () doesn't solve any problem ;)
12:22:12  <planetmaker> :-P But they should help in case of points to hold together what belongs together
12:22:24  <Weirdo> yes .... and you put the wrong things together :p
12:22:30  <Weirdo> you want a pointer to a char[150]
12:22:36  <Weirdo> not 150 pointers to a *char
12:22:47  <Weirdo> pointers = entries
12:23:12  <planetmaker> nor does char **ret_strg in the proc header work
12:23:29  <Weirdo> then you have to tell me the error, as I can't read my magic ball :)
12:24:19  <planetmaker> fix_apple/src/os/macosx/ error: cannot convert 'char (*)[150]' to 'char**' for argument '1' to 'void GetProcessorType(char**)'
12:24:49  <Weirdo> please show me your patch :)
12:25:20  * Fast2 is using google by himself as the keywords did't give something downloadable
12:25:58  <Yexo> Fast2: you didn't even mention which OS you use
12:26:23  <Fast2> XP SP2
12:26:30  <Fast2> *+Win
12:26:56  <Yexo> googling svn (or svnclient) yields as first result
12:27:11  <Yexo> it hosts both TortoiseSVN (a graphical client) and command-line utitilies
12:27:17  <planetmaker> I guess the call by reference is just not on...
12:27:27  <Fast2> That's right, I've just tried that.
12:27:34  <planetmaker> Just pass the char array without "&" and be fine.
12:27:57  <Alberth> planetmaker:
12:28:24  <Weirdo> lol, Alberth , of course :)
12:28:37  <planetmaker> yes, thanks :-)
12:29:30  <Fast2> And there are download links. => I can download something.
12:29:32  <Yexo> Alberth: isn't the whole array copied with that code?
12:30:06  <Weirdo> I would write * over [150] in params, but I guess it shouldn't matter ...
12:30:08  <planetmaker> that should be fine
12:30:28  <Alberth> the printf() gives "abc", so I guess not.
12:30:41  <Yexo> ok, so it doesn't copy the array
12:30:53  <planetmaker> did I ever mention that I think that c's string treatment sucks?
12:31:06  <Alberth> Yexo: which is of course what you expect in C, arrays are just pointers
12:31:10  <Weirdo> planetmaker: they don't; you just hav eto get use to them
12:31:19  <Weirdo> scripting languages are DEAD slow when it comes to string handling
12:31:31  <Alberth> planetmaker: C has no strings, only char arrays
12:31:35  <Yexo> Alberth: yes, but I remembered a problem with such code and solving it by chaging the array parameter to a pointer
12:31:58  <planetmaker> 	int version_major, version_minor, version_bugfix = -1; <-- is that accoring to coding style? Or one each line?
12:32:09  <Weirdo> it doesn't do what you want
12:32:14  <Weirdo> so put one on each line ;)
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12:32:40  * Yexo agrees with Weirdo
12:32:58  <Yexo> either put them all on their own line or leave the " = -1" out (if the rest of the code can handle that)
12:34:03  <Fast2> Yexo: I just wanted to get an advice, download any one isn't difficult. ;)
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12:34:32  <Yexo> Fast2: the advice that was given pointed to exactly those binaries
12:34:39  <Weirdo> planetmaker: FYI: your statement only sets version_bugfix to -1, and leave the rest unset ;)
12:34:42  <Alberth> Fast2: if you are a commandline fan, use plain subversion, otherwise the tortoise thingie
12:34:43  <Yexo> (although not direct)
12:34:55  <planetmaker> he, ok
12:34:57  <Weirdo> planetmaker: but mostly it is not needed to set such variables, if they are set later on in all cases :)
12:34:57  <planetmaker> ty :-)
12:35:15  <planetmaker> hm... so leave out initialization?
12:35:21  <Weirdo> if it is not required
12:35:25  <Eddi|zuHause> man, this is taking forever... it's only at 12k of 64k files
12:35:27  <Weirdo> int a = 1;
12:35:28  <Weirdo> a = 2;
12:35:29  <Weirdo> silly ;)
12:35:43  <Weirdo> int a = 1; if (possible) return; a = 2; <- not silly
12:35:53  <Weirdo> euh, 'return a' ;)
12:36:09  <glx> hey you're hidden behind the weird nick :)
12:36:19  <Weirdo> :p
12:36:27  <Weirdo> install OSX versions :)
12:36:31  <planetmaker> :-D - it's very obvious IMO :-P
12:36:32  <Weirdo> (plural, yes)
12:37:21  <glx> I think not having AMD-V is the reason for failing to install leopard in my vmware
12:37:32  <Weirdo> possible
12:37:53  <glx> because the installer correctly starts when I boot my computer with the CD
12:38:34  <glx> s/CD/DVD/
12:39:29  <Weirdo> ah, the installer executes the hp packages under the wrong user
12:39:44  <glx> btw having a running tiger is already a good thing :)
12:39:56  <Weirdo> glx: yes it is :)
12:40:26  <Weirdo> glx: either way, you might want to try a recent enough osx86 which has voodoo kernel 9.5.0 as installer
12:40:37  <Fast2> Is it possible for me to mess your data up or can I just try?
12:40:39  <glx> I should try to find the 10.4.11 combo update for amd
12:40:59  <glx> iATKOS v7 uses voodoo 9.5.0 IIRC
12:41:18  <Weirdo> glx: k .. stupid, in that case ;)
12:42:32  <Weirdo> I need to find a way to execute the installer as root, else I can't get 10.6 installed because of printer drivers which fail ...... lol :p
12:43:03  <Weirdo> glx: btw, I am now creating clean retail 10.4, 10.5 and 10.6 OSes, on an external HD, with voodoo kernel on them ... maybe, just maybe, I can get those to run under Virtualbox ....
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12:43:07  <Weirdo> we just keep on trying ;)
12:43:39  <glx> why install printer drivers ?
12:43:47  <Weirdo> because I have no option not to
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12:43:57  <glx> no customize option?
12:44:06  <Weirdo> not on retail
12:44:12  <glx> that's silly
12:44:15  <Weirdo> for 10.5 it installs a wopping 11 GB of data
12:45:39  <Rubidium> yes, that's because you need, besides x86_64 stuff also i686 to run some applications and ppc libraries + rosetta to run bash
12:45:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17317 /trunk/readme.txt: -Document: how to manually install AIs
12:46:11  <planetmaker> half of the 11GB is printers...
12:46:25  <planetmaker> that's the reason a 10.6 install is 5...7GB leaner
12:46:37  <Alberth> Fast2: downloading the repo can only mess up data at your own directory. Just be sure to download /trunk instead of the root (/).
12:47:23  <Fast2> :)
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12:48:31  <planetmaker> where best do go the lines a la #define STRLEN_OS 40 go?
12:48:44  <planetmaker> where needed or at the top?
12:49:03  <Weirdo> do you need them? :p
12:49:12  <Weirdo> (dunno what you plan to do)
12:49:17  <planetmaker> I can leave magic numbers scattered around...
12:49:18  <Weirdo> either way, in an enum, at top of the file, will be fine
12:50:01  <planetmaker> would you make string lengths an enum?
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12:50:25  <Eddi|zuHause> with enums, less things can go wrong than with defines
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12:51:16  <Eddi|zuHause> it's somewhere in the coding style that #define should be avoided
12:51:43  <Weirdo> planetmaker: what Eddi|zuHause  says :) #defines are BAD! and EVIL! and WRONG!
12:51:47  <Weirdo> enums are GOOOOOOOOOD :)
12:51:58  <planetmaker> hehe :-) ok
12:52:26  <Weirdo> Xaroth: finally the transfer of the domain is approved ... there was a bit of a miscommunication between me and Ben :) But now we are in a 5 day grey period, after which the transfer will be completed :)
12:58:11  <Weirdo> bah bah bah, how do I get this installer to run 100% as root ...
13:02:12  <Rubidium> cat /etc/passwd | head -n 1 > tmp; mv tmp /etc/passwd; shutdown -r now
13:02:24  <Weirdo> hehehehehe :)
13:03:04  <Weirdo> can you make a process 'root' when running?
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13:11:30  <Weirdo> another insane solution: mount the disk without owner permission :p
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13:44:17  <Weirdo> 10.6 installed, but of course permissions are totally wrong .. ghehehe :p
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13:44:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17318 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: remove state changes from the OnPaint of the industry directory
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13:55:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17319 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: replace some magic numbers related to locations/sizes with the appropriate variables in the industry directory
13:57:28  <Eddi|zuHause> yay, he's at 33k of 64k files
13:57:50  <TrueBrain> okay, this is just weird ... now booting doesn't work, the bootloader hangs :(
13:58:22  <Eddi|zuHause> he hangs because the permissions are wrong :p
13:58:33  <TrueBrain> a bootloader should never care ;)
14:00:09  <glx> is the disk bootable?
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14:00:21  <TrueBrain> it worked yesterday with 1 parition
14:00:28  <TrueBrain> I now created 10 on the same drive, and installed 2 OSXes ..
14:00:37  <glx> hmm else you would get "b0 error"
14:02:29  <TrueBrain> I guess I will start all over again
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14:03:58  <TrueBrain> it is not like I have anything better to do today :p
14:04:03  <TrueBrain> Xaroth will kill me for saying that :)
14:04:06  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... what are .prg files...
14:04:18  <TrueBrain>
14:06:49  <Eddi|zuHause> probably stuff of my father... he was dealing with databases and stuff...
14:07:08  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17320 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: move the code to determine the string and set dparams of industries in the industry directory out of OnPaint
14:09:02  <glx> <-- I like this cat
14:12:16  <Alberth> great video :)
14:14:10  * Xaroth thwacks TrueBrain
14:14:43  <Xaroth> it's experience you can use on the 'other' thing a well :)
14:15:03  <Xaroth> besides, I can go enjoy myself taking the files apart
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14:40:11  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17321 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Codechange: minor coding style fixes for the town directory
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14:42:26  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is it wise to have a 60GB disk with vfat?
14:43:16  <Combuster> if you want to use it on both linux and windows, yes
14:44:05  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i had (almost) no problems with my 1TB NTFS disk
14:53:25  <TrueBrain> bah bah bah, I can't get Chameleon to work
14:53:28  <TrueBrain> 0xDEADBEEF
14:53:30  <TrueBrain> it does now ..
14:53:37  <TrueBrain> it might be because I now have Windows 7 active again ... :s
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14:56:58  <Sacro> Combuster: erm, both ntfs and ext2 work fine on windows and linux
14:57:16  <Combuster> ext2 is a hack
14:57:24  <Combuster> ntfs was still read-only
14:57:33  <Sacro> hardly a hack, it works
14:57:41  <Sacro> and ntfs has had rw support for ages now
14:58:03  <TrueBrain> not always stable though .. ;)
14:58:24  <TrueBrain> and ext2 support in Windows XP / Vista / 7 is a hack Sacro, they even say so when installing the tool :)
14:59:03  <Sacro> mhmm
14:59:41  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: vfat does support big files, so use with care
14:59:50  <TrueBrain> (you can't download a DVD :p)
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15:04:55  <glx> does or doesn't ?
15:07:56  <MyCatVerbs> Does not.
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15:09:20  <MyCatVerbs> AFAIK, the maximum fat32 partition size is 127GB, and the maximum fat32 file size is 2GB.
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15:19:11  <Chris_Booth> MyCatsVerbs FAT 32 can store partitions upto 2TB with 512 kb cluster size
15:19:23  <Chris_Booth> 512 byte i mean
15:19:43  <Chris_Booth> but that is very waste full
15:20:30  <Chris_Booth> also the maximum single file size is 4GB
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15:20:49  <glx> still not enough for a DVD :)
15:22:34  <Chris_Booth> no you woild have to compress the DVD or split it up in to chapters or something
15:23:04  <TrueBrain> glx: doesn
15:23:07  <TrueBrain> glx: doesn't ;)
15:23:13  <TrueBrain> you can't store files > 2GB with FAT32
15:23:18  <TrueBrain> never ever :)
15:23:32  <Chris_Booth> you can store upto 4GC ture brain
15:23:43  <Chris_Booth> 4GB in 1 single file
15:23:52  <Combuster> Not when I last tried it
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15:24:12  <Chris_Booth> try it then
15:24:18  <TrueBrain> huh? Did I say 2? Damn, I have to get some food :(
15:24:39  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: older webservers/browsers didn't allow > 2 GB
15:24:47  <Chris_Booth> we all forget things sometimes
15:24:48  <TrueBrain> I was thining 4GB-1
15:24:53  <TrueBrain> but somehow I typed 2 ... :'(
15:25:15  <Chris_Booth> i only know as i had to learn the Fat32 equation last year
15:25:22  <TrueBrain> either way, windows supports up to 2GB for various of reasons
15:25:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17322 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the industry directory window nested.
15:25:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17323 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Codechange: replace some magic numbers with constants in the town directory.
15:25:48  <Rubidium> prolly int(32)
15:25:50  <TrueBrain> there is a difference between theory and implementations of those ;)
15:25:58  <Chris_Booth> yeah there is
15:26:12  <Chris_Booth> wasnt it windows scan disk that limited it to 2gb?
15:26:22  <Chris_Booth> and i thought that was sloved in windows 2000
15:26:37  <Rubidium> nope, 127.something GB
15:26:55  <Rubidium> see
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15:27:59  <Eddi|zuHause>  <Chris_Booth> no you woild have to compress the DVD or split it up in to chapters or something <- it's fairly trivial to put stuff into "multi-volume" rar files
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15:29:01  <Ammler> why don't you use ntfs?
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15:29:35  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not my disk, and it came with stuff on it...
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15:29:37  <Chris_Booth> NTFS is less portable
15:29:49  <TrueBrain> talking about those limits, I love that Windows only allows 3GB RAM on 32bit for regular OSes, but shows in Server editions they can .. exceed that limitation to over the 16GB :p
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15:30:35  <Chris_Booth> windows vista allows more than 4GB of ram in 32bit doesnt it?
15:30:47  <TrueBrain> in 32bit? Not that I know of ...
15:30:54  <TrueBrain> I believe it is even capped at 3GB
15:31:12  <Chris_Booth> i think you can
15:31:13  <Ammler> less portable like?
15:31:21  <TrueBrain> but it might be XP shit
15:31:23  <Yexo> iirc only some versions of vista allow that, but it's still capped at 3gb per process\
15:31:30  <Chris_Booth> NTFS can be read by osx or linux
15:31:48  <TrueBrain> Yexo: 3GB per process is not a real surpise, although you should be able to push that to 4GB
15:31:56  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: it's just, oh you're a stupid windows user and got lots of memory: pay more for the 64 bits version
15:31:58  <Eddi|zuHause> NTFS can only be written by osx or linux
15:32:00  <Ammler> today linux does also write that without any issue, afaik.
15:32:13  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: well, the stupid part was that Server2008 does use it in 32bit :p
15:32:21  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: PAE
15:32:26  <Eddi|zuHause> the version i have does have issues with writing big files
15:32:28  <KenjiE20> ^ I'm not entirely confident about NTFS3g writing, but i can do it
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15:32:45  <Eddi|zuHause> as in, after a while it takes forever to find empty blocks
15:32:59  <glx> <@Rubidium> TrueBrain: it's just, oh you're a stupid windows user and got lots of memory: pay more for the 64 bits version <-- available as OEM only (at least for XP)
15:32:59  <TrueBrain>
15:33:16  <Rubidium> glx: so you have to pay more
15:33:19  <TrueBrain> Vista is limited to 4GB
15:35:10  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: <- nice read :)
15:35:11  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: does PAE work inside a process? (never read up on PAE, so I don't know, but I assumed it was OS thingy)
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15:35:40  <TrueBrain> as allocating 4+GB with 4kb page on a 32bit system seems rather impossible to me ;)
15:35:43  <TrueBrain> OVERLAYS!
15:36:38  <Chris_Booth> why would your realy need more than 4gb of ram on a home PC?
15:36:40  <Rubidium> AFAIK also windows server can't give 4+ GB to applications
15:36:49  <Yexo> PAE is for the OS, their is still a 4gb limit per process (often capped at 2/3 gb to leave some space for os structures)
15:36:50  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I doub tthat too :)
15:37:03  <TrueBrain> Yexo: 'some' space? 1GB? :p
15:37:09  <Rubidium> Chris_Booth: moar is better, users are stupid and go for the higher numbers
15:37:28  <Rubidium> also most software that is written in recent years doesn't bother about memory wasted
15:37:30  <TrueBrain> Chris_Booth: who said home PC? Using XP/Vista/7 doesn't make it a home PC (although it should, of course)
15:37:40  <TrueBrain> but who uses Server 200[38] anyway ..
15:37:46  <Rubidium> me!
15:37:59  <Chris_Booth> I think you would have issues if you were using more than 4GB  of ram and not making a film or grapichs work
15:38:04  <Rubidium> was just a bit scared how huge the 64 bits version is
15:38:17  <TrueBrain> hmm .. I just overwrote the first 1024 bytes of all (!) my parititons ...
15:38:30  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: btw, the patch we talked earlier, I uploaded it now to FS - if you still care :-)
15:38:51  <TrueBrain> Chris_Booth: well, I have a few apps which use 4+ GB of RAM .. but I execute them on slightly larger paras :) But .. they are not WIndows ;)
15:38:58  <TrueBrain> if you care to give me the url :p
15:39:00  <Chris_Booth> if you had 32GB you could load the OS in ram
15:39:18  <TrueBrain> as if I ever finish my battle with Chameleon, I plan to make OSX a bit more .. supported ;)
15:39:47  <planetmaker>
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15:40:22  <TrueBrain> you can always load the OS in the RAM ....
15:40:24  <TrueBrain> but okay :)
15:40:31  <TrueBrain> ask planetmaker about the sizes our apps can use :p (hint: IDL :p)
15:40:39  <planetmaker> I think, though, it won't apply unless you use also
15:40:46  <Chris_Booth> has any one here used the new snow leopard?
15:40:48  <planetmaker> haha :-)
15:41:14  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: virtual memory is plenty. But I wouldn't call a computer then usable anymore
15:41:44  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: we need to fix your coding style :p
15:41:48  <planetmaker> e.g. the patch from 3156 must preceed the one from 2782
15:42:05  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: that's what I'm (also) asking about. Though... I hoped to have gotten it right. :S
15:42:16  <TrueBrain> 2782 is not even close :)
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15:42:31  <planetmaker> m?h :(
15:42:34  <TrueBrain> spaces, tabs, * placement, comments, \n ...
15:42:42  <TrueBrain> really .. I can't even detect a coding style .. sorry :)
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15:44:57  <planetmaker> comments?!
15:45:21  <TrueBrain> <- please read it ..
15:45:35  <TrueBrain> I know it is a tricky page to read
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15:46:10  <Yexo> planetmaker: to get you started: start a lines with tabs, not with spaces
15:46:11  <TrueBrain> code-wise it contains the things that are needed
15:46:18  <Yexo> the { of a function should have it's own line
15:46:37  <TrueBrain> but the problems: Vehicle *v over Vehicle* v or Vehicle * v (substitute 'Vehicle' and 'v' with what ever :p)
15:46:46  *** [wito] [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:46:47  <Yexo> if the statement after an if is not on the same line it should be enclosed by { }
15:46:48  <planetmaker> they... should be tabs.
15:46:55  <TrueBrain> next: /** <start of text> is wrong, besides /** is doxygen comment, which you should never use in mid-code
15:46:57  <Yexo> planetmaker: getSysCTLstring, they are not
15:47:18  <planetmaker> hm... yes. copy&paste left-over, I guess
15:47:23  <Yexo> +    // Determine CPU Family, Type, and Subtype   <- it's on a seperate line, so use /* */
15:47:26  <TrueBrain> STRLEN_TOTAL     = 340, // equal the total less the cpufamily  <- then why not use those enums to get that vlaue
15:47:57  <Yexo> planetmaker: GetProcessorType looks like you miss some break; statements in that switch
15:48:14  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: you'd need to remember then down somewhere which make up the whole
15:48:27  <TrueBrain> sorry?
15:49:15  <TrueBrain> if (err == 0) { vs if (!err) .. I think if (err == 0) and if (err != 0) is more clean, but I dont know the current policy on it
15:49:26  <Yexo> planetmaker: codestyle is wrong in the original file too
15:49:47  <TrueBrain> very wrong :)
15:50:32  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: if, in the place I use STRLEN_TOTAL I would write STRLEN_XY+STRLEN_AB+... - that wouldn't help, would it?
15:50:40  <TrueBrain> why not?
15:50:43  <TrueBrain> no, euh
15:50:49  <TrueBrain> STRLEN_TOTAL = STRLEN_XY + STRLEN_AB
15:50:58  <TrueBrain> that is more readable, instead of telling in a comment you did just that
15:51:14  <TrueBrain> say I ever change STRLEN_XY, I need to find all comment suggesting you used that value ;)
15:51:49  <TrueBrain> about 3156:
15:51:51  <TrueBrain> +	if ((version_major) != -1 && (version_minor != -1) && (version_bugfix != -1)) {
15:51:55  <TrueBrain> weird usage of () :p
15:52:45  <TrueBrain> +/*
15:52:47  <TrueBrain> + * This should give the version correct irrespective of version details
15:52:53  <TrueBrain> missing doxygen indication "/**"
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15:53:57  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: code-wise in general: nice job. coding-style: don't believe the things you read in the .mm files, they are poison :)
15:54:24  <TrueBrain> it needs a bit of a touch, as I dunno if those templates are really needed for such little usage
15:55:17  <TrueBrain> SInt32 systemVersion, version_major, version_minor, version_bugfix = -1; <- this does not what you expect it to do :)
15:56:04  <TrueBrain> yeah, the template can be removed .. is only used with 'unsigned long'
15:56:14  <planetmaker> true. Thanks
15:57:06  <TrueBrain> _getSysCTLstring <- never used
15:58:14  <TrueBrain> okay, time to make some food, then yet another attempt to get this OSX on my external .. the good news: Windows 7 also doesn't want to boot with the HD attached :p
16:01:23  <Kodak> hey guys, "quick" question.. :P .. anyway, are there any good tips on how to effectively set up bus "routes" in  a city to say.. shuttle ppl to an airport etc? i've used transfer, but no matter what setup i try.. be it all buses going to station 1->2->3 etc, or a few buses going 1->2 and a few buses going 2->3, the bus stations always end up having thousands of passengers, no matter how many buses i throw at the stations.. the buses just don't
16:01:38  <Kodak> feeder services
16:02:58  <Kodak> it usually ends up station 1 being bled out of passengers, station 2 having <1000 passengers and station 3 having 1000-2000 or sometimes even up to 3000 passengers, lol
16:03:21  <Kodak> any good "tutorial" on the forums or wiki that i've missed? :P
16:04:04  <planetmaker> food sounds good.
16:07:18  <MyCatVerbs> Kodak: for each feeder station, set up one bus going between that station and the airport.
16:07:37  <Rubidium> jeez... what a load of code just to detect *and* stringify a CPU to be just shown on crashes
16:07:38  <Kodak> hmm, is this the best solution?
16:07:59  <MyCatVerbs> Kodak: then clone more busses with shared orders for any feeder stations that tend to overfill.
16:08:17  <Rubidium> anyhow, how long ago was the last (has there ever been a first) time that that information was used in FS?
16:08:20  <MyCatVerbs> Kodak: if your bus stations are getting enough people to warrant at least one full bus apiece, sure.
16:08:56  <Kodak> MyCatVerbs: one full bus a piece?
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16:14:02  <Rubidium> planetmaker/TrueBrain, for what it's worth: I have not found a SINGLE bug report with the information from the code you're messing with, so please don't introduce a shitload of code to detect something that won't be reported
16:17:06  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... election night...
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16:17:29  <Eddi|zuHause> this could call for funny results
16:17:43  <Dreamxtreme> Hi All
16:18:13  <Yexo> hello Dreamxtreme
16:18:49  <Dreamxtreme> what are these "Special" Builds of openttd im told about
16:19:08  <MyCatVerbs> Dreamxtreme: people add bacon to the C++ compiler.
16:19:11  <Yexo> where were you told about that?
16:19:17  <MyCatVerbs> Don't let anyone else in on the secret, though.
16:19:29  <Yexo> Dreamxtreme: OpenTTD is opensource, so anyone can compile the game himself
16:19:43  <Yexo> that also means that everyone can add their own feature to it, resulting in a 'special' build
16:19:58  <Dreamxtreme> hmm
16:20:16  <Dreamxtreme> ok
16:20:37  <MyCatVerbs> It's under the GNU GPL, right?
16:21:06  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
16:21:28  <Yexo> version 2 to be exact
16:21:43  <Dreamxtreme> ah ok
16:21:44  <MyCatVerbs> Yep. The only condition on 'special' builds is that if you give anyone a compiled altered version, you're obligated to offer them the sources for that altered version, too.
16:21:54  <Dreamxtreme> well im working on England & Wales 0.5
16:22:01  <Dreamxtreme> Scenario
16:22:03  <MyCatVerbs> But you'd probably want to do that anyway, just out of politeness. ^^
16:22:16  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: like them all voting for Ratzinger?
16:22:29  <Yexo> Dreamxtreme: in that case it's best to use an 'official' build, so as many people as possible can use your scenario
16:22:58  <Dreamxtreme> yes of course :D
16:23:09  <Dreamxtreme> still running 0.7.2 here
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16:23:40  <Dreamxtreme> its the most basic of basic maps anyhow
16:23:42  <glx> good, it's better to use latest stable to create scenarios (unless you really need more recent features)
16:23:45  <Dreamxtreme> if not a little big
16:24:03  <Dreamxtreme> its going on 4MB now
16:24:17  <Dreamxtreme> which is big for a Scenario
16:24:22  <Dreamxtreme> so i gather
16:24:25  <glx> what's the map size?
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16:24:33  <Dreamxtreme> 2048x2048
16:24:41  <glx> no surprising then :)
16:24:49  <Yexo> depending on how important you think they are, removing all tress might save you some space
16:24:52  <Dreamxtreme> taken from a Hightmap
16:25:21  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: more like the SPD (usually 2nd largest party) dropping to 4th place in Sachsen
16:25:29  <TinoDidriksen> 2048*2048 = 4194304 bytes already...with several layers and gzipped, it can definitely remain over 4mb.
16:25:31  <Dreamxtreme> depends where they are . there are alot of forests here
16:26:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i think sachsen has the only 6-party parliament in germany
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16:35:50  <Dreamxtreme> grr why does it freeze up for like 3 mins when i click many random industries
16:36:39  <Eddi|zuHause> because you are using ECS?
16:36:46  * Dreamxtreme predicts 0.7.3 to cure the problem
16:36:55  <Dreamxtreme> lol no
16:36:59  <Dreamxtreme> Acer !
16:37:12  <Dreamxtreme> T5500 Dual Core at 1.9GHZ
16:37:14  <Yexo> Dreamxtreme: ECS = a newgrf industry set
16:37:18  <Dreamxtreme> o
16:37:20  <Dreamxtreme> lol
16:37:57  <Yexo> are you using a newgrf industry set at all?
16:38:16  <Dreamxtreme> i go on the downloadable content and click all
16:38:27  <Dreamxtreme> so i suspect so
16:38:34  <Yexo> but did you activate any in the newgrf config?
16:38:41  <Dreamxtreme> no
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16:47:44  <Dreamxtreme> is that why Yexo
16:47:46  <Dreamxtreme> ?
16:48:05  <Dreamxtreme> do i need them on if there downloaded ?
16:48:11  <Dreamxtreme> n00b alert
16:48:13  <Yexo> only if you want to use them
16:48:28  <Yexo> but please don't change the in a running game (scenario = running game)
16:48:40  <Yexo> and using them would make it slower, not faster
16:49:02  <Dreamxtreme> true
16:49:12  <Dreamxtreme> but i wonder why it freezes now
16:56:02  <Dreamxtreme> ah man
16:56:10  <Dreamxtreme> i forgot you had to turn them on
16:56:33  <Dreamxtreme> theres some really good stuff in here i could use on my running game
16:56:54  <Dreamxtreme> its still in beta
16:57:01  <Dreamxtreme> 0.4 so far
16:57:57  <Yexo> you can try, most of the time it works but it can cause crashes
16:58:13  <Dreamxtreme> ok
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17:03:51  <Dreamxtreme> worked :D
17:08:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Yexo * r17324 /trunk/src/ (misc_gui.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Land info window uses nested widget tree
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17:11:13  <Yexo> Dreamxtreme: I have no idea what causes your problems, I can build many random industries in a matter of seconds on a 2048x2048 map
17:11:34  <Dreamxtreme> yes very odd
17:11:36  <Yexo> can you upload your scenario somewhere?
17:11:45  <Dreamxtreme> it already is
17:11:47  <Dreamxtreme> :D
17:11:52  <Dreamxtreme> 0.4 anyway
17:11:53  <Yexo> then give me a link :)
17:12:21  <Dreamxtreme> its in bananas or
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17:14:02  <Yexo> it does take very long indeed in that scenario
17:15:10  <Yexo> very long....
17:16:01  <joachim> SmatZ: there?
17:16:49  <Yexo> Dreamxtreme: if you enable "Allow multiple similar industries per town" then generating more industires is fast again
17:16:55  <PeterT> Dreamxtreme, what is your problem?
17:17:08  *** DR_Jekyll [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:17:22  <Dreamxtreme> ah ok
17:35:30  <Dreamxtreme> hmm Yexo
17:35:34  <Dreamxtreme> i cant find it
17:35:43  <Dreamxtreme> :'(
17:36:05  <Yexo> advanced settings->economy->industries
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17:37:11  <Dreamxtreme> ah ok :P
17:38:05  <PeterT> Yexo, do you know it by heart?
17:38:13  <PeterT> all the advanced settings?
17:38:23  <Yexo> PeterT: no, I open the game and look where to find it
17:38:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17325 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp engine_gui.cpp engine_gui.h): -Codechange: Un-duplicate engine drawing routines.
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17:39:26  <Alberth> PeterT:
17:39:58  <PeterT> Do I trust you?
17:40:28  <Yexo> Alberth: nice one :)
17:40:45  <Yexo> I haven't read the latest, so didnt notice it yet
17:42:52  <Alberth> I read them only some of the time, happen to come across this one and remember it :)
17:45:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17326 /trunk/src/lang/ (italian.txt welsh.txt):
17:45:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
17:45:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: welsh - 16 changes by welshdragon
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17:51:54  <TrueBrain> even voodoo-kernel can't boot with VirtualBox :(
17:52:43  <TrueBrain> lol, I just realised the problem .. I patch op DSDT to work with OSX .. but tha tpatches version is against my real hardware
17:52:47  <TrueBrain> not against the virtualized
17:52:57  <TrueBrain> and the only way to create a correct DSDT is to have a running OSX :p
17:54:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17327 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp engine_gui.cpp engine_gui.h): -Codechange: Allow external use of GetEngineCategoryName().
17:56:14  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: nobody will ever report a bug related to it, but this part of the system is used when there is a bug, and we need to know where/how ;)
17:56:24  <TrueBrain> besides, it reduces code, when you add everything together
17:56:38  <Sacro> TrueBrain: sounds like fun
17:56:46  <Sacro> DSDT stuff is always interesting
17:56:56  <TrueBrain> the way they 'fixed' it for OSX even more :)
17:57:51  <TrueBrain> they changed the bootloaders in such way it can load a non-default DSDT
18:02:15  <Dreamxtreme> ah that better
18:02:19  <Kodak> hey guys, i'm having a problem.. my friend is trying to join my server; i'm loading a game i saved last night, and he could join last night no problem, today he's getting stuck on authorizing :(
18:03:05  <Kodak> is this common?
18:03:24  <Alberth> no idea.
18:03:31  <Kodak> seems to be happening on new game too :8
18:03:32  <Ammler> server is running local? (Homenet)
18:03:33  <TrueBrain> common? No :)
18:03:37  <Kodak> oh well, i'll try fixing :P
18:03:50  <Alberth> he has a connection to the game
18:03:51  <Alberth> ?
18:04:15  <Alberth> there are server passwords and company passwords that may cause problems
18:04:29  <Kodak> let's hope it's because i haven't rebooted for 2 weeks
18:04:35  <Kodak> gonna try that first :P
18:04:54  <Kodak> yeah, think he got the passwords correct anyway :S
18:05:20  <TrueBrain> hmm, seems there is a DSDT patcher for windows .. so if I install a small Windows (or use the CF one), and run that .. I might be able to get myself a working DSDT
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18:08:58  <TrueBrain> cool, my classes start tomorrow, but nowhere is said in which room ..
18:09:01  <TrueBrain> useful
18:09:25  <Alberth> you do know which building?
18:09:37  <TrueBrain> that even I can only guess
18:09:56  <TrueBrain> but that building has 3 wings and a total of 15 possible lecture rooms .. if it is where I expect it to be :p
18:10:32  <Alberth> that is not too bad
18:11:58  <TrueBrain> and then I study CS ... makes you wonder ;)
18:12:43  <TrueBrain> for all courses: room: TBA
18:14:22  <Alberth> the joys of modern life :p
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18:19:01  <TrueBrain> finally found somewhere hidden what the rooms will be :)
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18:33:16  <Rubidium> welshdragon: it looks like you're making a mess of the Welsh translation; you use "Ctrl+Clic" and "Ctrl + clic". Also the stuff added to STR_VEHICLE_DETAILS_??CREASE_SERVICING_INTERVAL_TOOLTIP is the same, while one of the words in the new part is only in one of the two originals (I deduced that Gostwng means decrease and thus isn't appropriate in a sentence that's about increase)
18:33:44  <Combuster> this is weird:
18:33:46  <welshdragon> Rexxars:
18:33:49  <welshdragon> oops
18:34:32  <welshdragon> Rubidium: i do apologise, i'll have a look at those strings again, and I may have pasted the wrong word
18:34:52  <Rubidium> also 8 days ago you changed "Isel iawn" to "STR_NUM_ISEL_IAWN", which is likely the translation of the stringid and you copied some English verbatim; "(multiple of 8, up to 2040)" doesn't look like the rest of the Welsh translation
18:35:39  <TrueBrain> never copy/paste in any translation .....
18:35:44  <TrueBrain> sounds like babblefish to me :p
18:35:59  <welshdragon> TrueBrain: i was working with another native welsh speaker
18:36:31  <welshdragon> who doesn't wish to join the translation team, but offered to help me the once
18:37:06  <Rubidium> Combuster: it's a known 'issue' that won't be fixed. Running a train through itself causes the PF to not know which of the reservations to take so it guesses. Apparantly it's the 90 degree turn, which is valid because if it could reserve it, 90 degree turns must've been enabled when it reserved the path
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18:37:53  <welshdragon> Rubidium: i understand about the verbatim, however 8 days ago my welsh was still 'stuck' and i was referring to a dictionary
18:38:11  <welshdragon> i'll be reviewing all the strings anyway
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18:41:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17328 /trunk/src/ (engine_gui.cpp engine_gui.h): -Codechange: Get the vehicle technical data as string rather than having it printed.
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18:42:48  <Combuster> Rubidium: forbid 90' was disabled from the start of the game
18:42:57  <TrueBrain> of course that darn windows DSDT doesnt work :(
18:44:10  <Rubidium> Combuster: it's what the pathfinder thinks
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18:54:30  <Kodak> still get that authorizing problem when he tries to join the loaded game :(
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19:19:37  <fjb> Try Fuji.
19:23:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17329 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Codechange: music window uses nested widgets
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20:02:20  <_ln> end of discussion
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20:30:35  <Ammler> Kodak: only with the loaded game, new game works?
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20:39:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17330 /trunk/src/ (50 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Lower some buttons in the music window when clicked instead of changing the text colour to white
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21:02:02  <Kodak> it works now that we tried it over hamachi :S
21:02:09  <Kodak> it wouldn't download the map properly over the net
21:02:12  <Kodak> normal net
21:02:13  <Kodak> :P
21:02:39  <Xaroth> probably some poprt not being open..
21:02:44  <Xaroth> or being filtered by isp
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21:32:06  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17331 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Codechange: don't depend on static widget position/size for drawing of volumer sliders in music window
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21:40:54  <Eddi|zuHause> <_ln> end of discussion <- there is only one generally accepted way to end a discussion
21:40:59  <Eddi|zuHause> it's called godwins law
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21:42:43  <Coco-Banana-Man> damned.
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21:43:15  <Coco-Banana-Man> Even with the newest CargoDist build, my multiplayer game desyncs a lot D:
21:45:49  <Rubidium> you better make a post in the appropriate thread on the forum (that way I can find it back whenever I get into the discussion that cargodist's design makes desyncs easier to trigger)
21:46:08  <_ln> [00:40] <Eddi|zuHause> <_ln> end of discussion <- there is only one generally accepted way to end a discussion <Eddi|zuHause> it's called godwins law  <-- that's what they would have argued in the early 40's germany if newsgroups had been invented!
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21:46:59  <welshdragon> is there a console command to stop overlength trains using shorter platforms?
21:47:09  <Eddi|zuHause> err... the nazis were in a constant rise since about 1925
21:47:38  <_ln> (did i claim otherwise?)
21:48:19  <Eddi|zuHause> (mandatory xkcd reference:
21:49:20  <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: no, but there are pathfinder penalties
21:49:35  <welshdragon> Eddi|zuHause: divulge please ;)
21:49:54  <Eddi|zuHause> these won't forbid it, but severely discourage
21:50:37  <Eddi|zuHause> they're called like pf.yapf.rail_shorter_platform_[per_tile]_penalty or so
21:50:38  <_ln> i wonder how many per cent of 18-year old americans have heard about hitler.
21:51:17  <Eddi|zuHause> if you make it high enough, it will surpass the pbs-penalty, so they will rather wait for an existing long platform to free up than take the short platform
21:52:05  <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: likely more than napoleon
21:52:08  <glx> there's a command to list settings, and even filter them
21:55:43  <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: try to ask them about people like robespierre
21:56:03  <_ln> yeah, there aren't a hundred youtube videos of napoleon yelling with different subtitles.
21:56:49  <Yexo> that command is "list_settings"
21:56:56  <Yexo> to filter just tpe the start of the setting name after it
21:57:26  <Yexo> like "list_settings pf.yapf.rail"
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22:00:10  <Yexo> planetmaker: there are still a few coding style issues with your patch
22:00:34  <Yexo> STRLEN_TOTAL = xx+yy+zz; <- spaces around +
22:00:35  <planetmaker> hm, still?
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22:00:41  <planetmaker> oh
22:01:01  <Yexo> in getSysCTLvalue, the comment block, I'd put the comment on the same line as /* and put the */ on the last line (intead of on a new one)
22:01:27  <Yexo> + *@param char ... <- missing spaced before @
22:01:41  <Yexo> +	/** Determine CPU Family, Type, and Subtype */ <- should be /*, it's not a doxygen comment
22:01:56  <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: well, i seem to recall some bugs bunny sketches talking about napoleon
22:02:10  <planetmaker>  /** = doxygen and /* = normal?
22:02:14  <Yexo> yes
22:02:24  <planetmaker> then the wiki needs clearification
22:02:26  <planetmaker>  :-)
22:03:09  <Yexo> ok :)
22:07:31  <Yexo> planetmaker: better now? (header of section Documentation)
22:10:34  <planetmaker> :-)
22:10:37  <planetmaker> yup
22:13:13  <Yexo> +	 *Most import <- missing space
22:13:53  <Yexo> +		cpufam = (int) raw_version;
22:13:53  <Yexo>  <- space after (int) shouldn't be there
22:14:23  <Yexo> and it still looks like you're missing a lot of breaks in GetProcessorType
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22:24:27  <planetmaker> hm... yes, I do
22:26:25  <planetmaker> he... maybe it then even works for me - with those breaks :-D
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22:31:52  <SmatZ> Yexo: sadly, those files in macosx/ directory break coding style in many ways :-/
22:32:12  <Yexo> so we should fix that, nto introduce more coding-style breaking code
22:32:27  <SmatZ> sure :)
22:32:46  <SmatZ> I would do that if I had OSX
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22:33:06  <Yexo> same problem here :)
22:34:05  <Yexo> planetmaker: +* This file contains objective C <- don't remove the space before *
22:34:22  <Yexo> and dont' make it a doxygen comment either
22:34:22  <planetmaker> I really appreciate your care and support, Yexo :-) Thanks!
22:34:22  <planetmaker> yippih, yipieh yeah yeah. Now my processor is know :-)
22:34:22  <planetmaker> those breaks are bad for me... IDL, the language I programme in most, doesn't require them...
22:34:22  <planetmaker> +n
22:34:56  <Yexo> +int _getSysCTLvalue(const char key[], unsigned long * dest)
22:34:56  <Yexo>  <- should be *dest, not * dest (not space in between)
22:35:24  <Yexo> + *@param char ret_strg <- sttill needs a space before @
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22:40:50  <planetmaker> Bjarni's comment about the objective c is still right, though. When resorting directly to the API some parts of objective c probably can never be entirely be avoided
22:41:58  <planetmaker> those things also fixed
22:43:38  <Yexo> can you upload a new diff?
22:44:12  <planetmaker> yup. Just doing a test compile
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22:47:18  <planetmaker> uploaded:
22:48:56  <Yexo> the default case still has a /** comment block
22:49:07  <Yexo> and also needs a space before We
22:50:25  <Yexo> sprintf(family_str,"Int <- missing space after comma
22:50:30  <planetmaker> yes... I don't see the wood anymore because of the trees - as we say in German
22:51:15  <Yexo> planetmaker: shall I fix those remaining code style issues?
22:51:33  <Xaroth> can't see the forest through the trees :)
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22:52:43  <planetmaker> I'll just upload those fixes. And then I'd gladly say 'yes' :-)
22:52:48  * Fast2 can't see the forest because he burned the trees
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22:59:33  <Yexo> planetmaker: oh, it needs another patch first
22:59:55  <planetmaker> yes, the other one.
23:00:04  <planetmaker> Together they make sense.
23:00:26  <planetmaker> The other one IMO is even more important. As it is a bug fix
23:00:38  <planetmaker> while the cpu type thing is a feature improvement
23:01:38  <planetmaker> I used hg queues with those... one common goal, but sub tasks separated, e.g. one patch per issue
23:02:36  <planetmaker> and they're so close next to eachother, that they necessarily interfere
23:02:52  <planetmaker> uhm... sorry.
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23:03:31  <planetmaker> together also the coding style then is ok ;-)
23:03:58  <planetmaker> the 2nd fixes two(?) three(?) style errors in the first...
23:04:13  <planetmaker> Not sure whether I should have made it one patch, though
23:04:24  <Yexo> no, 2 patches are fine :)
23:05:38  <planetmaker> hm, I guess you couldn't even check whether it compiles...
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23:10:26  <planetmaker> For now, I've got to go to bed. Thanks for the extensive review, Yexo :-)
23:10:32  <Yexo> np :)
23:10:42  <planetmaker> I guess before it gets commited, someone wants to try it on the CF?
23:10:44  <Yexo> I'll upload the new patches for you to compile tomorrow
23:10:55  <Yexo> I'm not going to commit it anyway since I can't test it
23:10:59  <planetmaker> ok, nice. I guess I can do that for breakfast :-)
23:11:25  <planetmaker> he... who tests those then? RB?
23:11:30  <planetmaker> g1x?
23:11:39  <planetmaker> or T3?
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23:12:19  <Yexo> why do you think FS#2782 is still open? :p
23:12:23  <Eddi|zuHause> if you don't highlight them, they're unlikely to answer ;)
23:12:29  <planetmaker> :-P
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23:12:50  <Yexo> no idea, but I think all of them have mac osx running in a vm now
23:12:50  <planetmaker> Next week I can hopefully test on native 10.6, too
23:12:59  <Eddi|zuHause> and iirc, 1337 used to be a ban reason in here ;)
23:13:24  <planetmaker> hehe :-) no need to wake up the sleeping, though ;-)
23:13:48  <planetmaker> apropos sleeping. Good night! :-)
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23:19:23  <glx> Yexo: but it's really slow :)
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23:19:52  <glx> at least I can compile now (was not the case with panther in pearpc)
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23:20:46  <glx> but 45min for a full build is not nice
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