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00:23:12 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:29:42 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@188.109.255.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:39:21 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 01:04:42 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d8d3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:18 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-154-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 01:11:32 *** mynetdude [~mynetdude@173-129-32-55.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #openttd 01:11:50 <mynetdude> is there any way in the cfg or in console to override how long bridges can be? 01:11:57 <PeterT> yes 01:12:05 <PeterT> in console it is... 01:12:12 <PeterT> set long_bridges on or off, I think 01:12:17 <mynetdude> can it be unlimited lengths? 01:12:31 <PeterT> If I recall correctly... 01:13:34 <PeterT> mynetdude: http://wiki.openttd.org/Longer_bridges 01:14:07 <mynetdude> thx 01:14:16 <PeterT> yw 01:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> depending on your value of "unlimited", i believe the limit is bigger than the size of a standard map ;) 01:15:58 <mynetdude> 100 tiles max on long bridges my map is 1024x768 01:16:04 <mynetdude> err 1024x1024 map 01:16:12 <mynetdude> default is 16 tiles 01:16:24 <mynetdude> I want to create bridges over 400 tiles long 01:17:19 <mynetdude> no worries there are work arounds 01:18:26 <glx> you want to bridge over water? 01:19:57 <mynetdude> long ways over water 01:20:07 <mynetdude> well over land/water combo 01:20:26 <glx> you can still build small islands ;) 01:20:27 <mynetdude> trying to minimize track sloping as much as possible 01:20:33 <mynetdude> yeah true 01:20:50 <glx> when done correctly there are no slopes 01:21:44 <mynetdude> well the elevation has to be the same between two points 01:21:49 <mynetdude> in order ot not have slopes 01:22:17 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 01:22:23 <mynetdude> I created a "sort of" switchback in one of my maps, switchbacks have slopes which wasn't too bad 01:26:21 *** mynetdude [~mynetdude@173-129-32-55.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [] 01:39:23 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 02:00:39 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 02:18:08 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-50-12.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:20:15 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 02:20:17 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-8-178.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 02:20:20 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 03:23:22 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:51c5:5a8d:1415:57fc] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:29:27 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:57:08 *** ashaw [~alexis@58.108.161.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:01:22 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:16:09 *** ashaw [~alexis@58.108.161.163] has joined #openttd 04:23:52 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:23:58 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: ecke] 04:44:50 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:45:44 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has joined #openttd 04:56:03 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7673E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:56:12 *** ashaw [~alexis@58.108.161.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:56:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76B1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:07:04 *** ashaw [~alexis@58.108.161.163] has joined #openttd 05:19:37 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a5c2f.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:30:03 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 05:30:23 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a5c2f.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 05:37:03 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.155.145] has joined #openttd 05:37:06 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it] 05:42:36 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 05:47:37 <dih> morning 05:52:40 <SmatZ> morning dihedral 06:09:47 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.155.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:33:11 <dih> who was the author (and what was the real title) of that 'building a language' talk? 06:34:20 <dih> i think it was a link Rubidium or TrueBrain posted 06:34:23 <dih> like a year ago :-D 06:35:54 <Rubidium> Guy Steele 06:36:47 <dih> thank you :-) 06:56:44 <dih> does anybody know of a way to find out which applications memory is actaully in swap? 06:59:11 <Ammler> ps axuff maybe 07:01:49 <dih> and by which col would i tell it's using swap? 07:01:50 <dih> ^^ 07:04:19 <Ammler> is the swap used by app? 07:05:44 <dih> we have a few servers and on 3 of them, nearly all ram is used, + a good 2GB of swap 07:05:48 <dih> and that sucks 07:06:02 <dih> and i'd like to find out what that is! 07:06:14 <Rubidium> first look at RSS (the real amount of used memory) 07:06:25 <Rubidium> but that doesn't tell anything about swap 07:06:50 <Rubidium> furthermore... how much memory is used for buffers/cache? 07:07:16 <planetmaker> dih: the state keyword to ps might help 07:07:54 <planetmaker> The state is given by a sequence of characters, for example, ``RWNA''. The first character indicates 07:07:55 <planetmaker> the run state of the process: (...) 07:07:57 <planetmaker> W The process is swapped out. 07:08:20 <dih> http://paste.openttd.org/225720 07:08:22 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 07:08:30 <dih> yesterday the amount of 'free' ram was below 40 MB 07:09:05 <Rubidium> so a little over 4 GB for applications and a little under 2 GB used for caches 07:09:39 <dih> yes 07:09:41 <Rubidium> s/used/can be used/ 07:09:52 <dih> thing that bugs me though, is that 2GB are in ram 07:10:06 <dih> and if i knew what that was, i might be a bit more ok with that 07:10:12 <dih> planetmaker: i'll give it a shot 07:10:31 <peter1138> in swap, you mean? 07:10:45 <peter1138> total used free shared buffers cached 07:10:45 <peter1138> Mem: 4091844 4026512 65332 0 422880 3072176 07:10:45 <peter1138> -/+ buffers/cache: 531456 3560388 07:10:45 <peter1138> Swap: 3911672 816 3910856 07:10:48 <peter1138> hurr :D 07:11:14 <Rubidium> what is so bad about (unused) application data being moved to swap? 07:11:33 <peter1138> everything, when you don't understand why :) 07:11:56 <peter1138> clearly swap is the best place for it in dih's case 07:12:01 <dih> i cannot imagine it being 'unused' - i can rather imagine it being put there as there was no other option! 07:12:23 <peter1138> if it was in ram, then you wouldn't have anywhere near the buffers/cache size, and it would be slow 07:12:27 <peter1138> it must be unused 07:12:27 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:12:31 <dih> and my normal assumption would be, that caches are dropped before stuff is moved into swap 07:12:43 <peter1138> if it was used, again, it wouldn't be swapped out with that much buffers/cache available 07:14:21 <Rubidium> dih: wrong assumption then... it'll move pages that are idle to swap to make space for caches; it's faster to get those unused pages back from swap than to get an IO storm trying to read all the files you want to read 07:14:51 <dih> well, at least that is good to know 07:16:12 <dih> planetmaker: W paging (not valid since the 2.6.xx kernel) 07:16:56 <peter1138> you can show it with top 07:17:33 <peter1138> although it mayn't be accurate 07:17:44 <dih> i can show it in top? per application? 07:17:49 <peter1138> cos i have a process showing at 71MB in swap, but only 816KB of swap used :P 07:18:02 <peter1138> yeah, press f then toggle swap 07:18:24 <peter1138> i think it's lying 07:18:28 <peter1138> it's just show virt - res 07:18:39 <peter1138> which isn't actually swap 07:19:02 <peter1138> it should work in your case though 07:19:49 <dih> yeah - sweet! 07:19:57 <dih> it shows every httpd process with swap ^^ 07:20:15 <dih> between 480m and 495m 07:22:23 <peter1138> yeah, but that might still be lying 07:23:27 <dih> probably is 07:23:43 <dih> the sys aint got 400GB of swap :-D 07:24:11 <dih> 20 threads showing that amount of swap to each of them :-P 07:25:08 <dih> my collegue was hoping memcached was being swapped 07:25:11 <dih> ... nope 07:25:12 <dih> :-D 07:25:14 <dih> crap 07:25:19 *** KloBass [~hadameko@193.179.62.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:25:20 <dih> and they configured it to use 2GB 07:25:25 <dih> \o/ 07:25:29 <dih> i am so happy... NOT 07:25:42 *** KloBass [~hadameko@193.179.62.1] has joined #openttd 07:26:32 <peter1138> ? 07:27:54 <dih> that would mean arount 50% of RAM goes to memcache - 1GB used for caches ... 07:28:42 <peter1138> your paste shows that you have 2GB of buffers/caches 07:28:43 <dih> what is the average iowait on openttd.org? 07:28:49 <peter1138> so memcached isn't using 2GB RAM 07:29:31 <peter1138> PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ SWAP COMMAND 07:29:34 <peter1138> 17775 petern 20 0 149g 1984 304 R 99 0.1 0:10.42 149g h 07:29:42 <peter1138> yeah, 149GB swap ;) 07:30:01 <Rubidium> dih: absolutely no clue 07:30:01 <dih> ...? 07:30:13 <dih> none the less, thanks ;-) 07:30:22 <peter1138> just demonstrating how that swap field lies 07:30:29 <dih> i know it lies ;-) 07:30:44 <dih> top showed about 500m for memcached 07:30:53 <dih> and i guess that would be a lie too 07:31:11 <peter1138> so anyway 07:31:15 <dih> but it was also showing 45% MEM being used for that process 07:31:16 <peter1138> have you decided it doesn't matter yet? 07:31:24 <peter1138> RES is important 07:31:40 <peter1138> having memory for large buffers/cache is important 07:31:45 <peter1138> actual swap used, not important 07:31:48 <dih> it sucks, if you have to wait about 2 seconds on the live server for a uncached webpage 07:31:54 <dih> and less than 1 on the dev server 07:32:12 <peter1138> right, but that 2 seconds is nothing to do with your swap 07:32:12 <dih> i dislike the fact that we have over 10% iowait average 07:32:44 <dih> and over 50% on the db servers 07:33:01 <peter1138> get faster io ;) 07:33:01 <dih> db servers are quad core iirc 07:33:10 <dih> managed hosting - it sucks! 07:33:20 <dih> i hate it - why on earth did this company ever do that! 07:33:23 <dih> grrrr 07:33:31 <peter1138> faster cpus == harddrives slower, relatively == %age higher 07:34:02 <Alberth> exactly my thoughts :) 07:34:10 <Rubidium> dih: oh, ...%wa? nearly 0 at the moment 07:34:21 <dih> yes, thank you ^^ 07:34:29 <dih> the dev server is a vm :-P 07:34:49 <peter1138> "managed" hosting doesn't say anything about what the hardware is 07:34:58 <peter1138> could be an old IDE drive ;p 07:35:15 <dih> peter1138: it says that i cannot manage it myself 07:35:20 <dih> and i'd love to 07:35:36 <dih> every config change i want, i need to request in a ticket :-S 07:35:49 <peter1138> that's so they know what's going on 07:36:02 <dih> they are so abso-fucking-stupid 07:36:09 <peter1138> you can't have two sets of admins managing things with different ideas on how to do so 07:36:12 <peter1138> that too 07:36:21 <dih> sure you cannot ^^ 07:36:59 <dih> you would not believe what a pain it is, to ask them to do something! 07:37:12 <Rubidium> dih: now it's roughtly 20% with a peak at 50%... guess what I did 07:37:24 <dih> updatedb? :-D 07:37:30 <dih> du -sh / 07:37:38 <dih> find 07:37:49 <dih> find -t f / :-P 07:38:22 <Rubidium> nah, just started a compile farm run... 3 VMs starting an OS simultaniously 07:38:22 <dih> tell me, Rubidium, what did you do? 07:38:30 <dih> LOL 07:38:37 <Rubidium> now they're all compiling it's back at <1% 07:38:45 <dih> lucky you 07:39:11 <Rubidium> still ~20% idle (yay for using only 3 cores for the CF) 07:40:08 <Rubidium> for some odd reason the load jumped up a little over 3 "points" too (from ~0.15) 07:40:34 <dih> munin shows some interesting stats ^^ 07:41:59 <dih> http://pub.dihedral.de/munin-stats.png 07:44:42 <dih> what is swap_cache? 07:48:37 <Alberth> wild guess: pages being swapped in or out? 07:51:16 <Alberth> You should read a book that explains the design and implementation of the kernel 07:51:59 <Alberth> Don't know whether it exists for a Linux kernel. I know for a fact that it exists for the BSD kernel. 07:52:53 <dih> i am just not used to haveing stuff in swap ^^ 07:53:09 <dih> esp. not _that_ much 07:57:36 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BF2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:01:44 <dih> @seen Yexo 08:01:44 <DorpsGek> dih: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 15 hours, 47 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <Yexo> the self scope of the object you clicked on 08:01:48 <dih> Yexo: ping ^^ 08:13:29 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:15:39 <Terkhen> good morning 08:16:04 <Rubidium> it's morning already? 08:19:43 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:26:28 <Terkhen> good question... I feel as tired as I was when I went to sleep 08:37:34 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 08:38:31 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ff1ec000-127.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:06:59 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 09:07:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@88.130.191.234] has joined #openttd 09:13:33 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:14:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@89.246.217.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:21:07 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:29:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@88.130.191.234] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:29:44 *** lugo [~lugo@f055216087.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 09:30:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@88.130.191.234] has joined #openttd 10:13:39 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:15:17 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:21:04 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:21:28 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 10:24:08 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:32:00 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@ip-186-139-106-77.eidsiva.net] has joined #openttd 10:35:20 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.103.88] has joined #openttd 10:36:22 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 10:53:19 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:54:02 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 10:54:35 *** George is now known as Guest1836 10:55:37 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BF2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:22 *** Guest1755 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:19:30 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 11:52:54 *** dune [bah@84-16-208.101.3p.ntebredband.no] has joined #openttd 11:52:59 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:54:09 <dune> do anyone know a place to download a copypaste-patch that doesent need to be compiled and works with openttd 1.0 (im a lazy windows user) :p 11:55:18 <planetmaker> to my knowledge such place does not exist 11:57:41 <dune> i guess i jaut have to try compiling then.. :s 11:58:00 <dune> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=41259&start=180 <-- the latest diff is thatone in the last post? 11:58:51 <peter1138> ... 11:59:06 <peter1138> it's a patch to the source code, it needs to be compiled... 11:59:11 <peter1138> or you find a binary 12:00:34 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:02:05 <dune> i guess i just wait for a binary. 12:02:33 <planetmaker> hahaha :-) 12:02:45 <planetmaker> for a non-supported patch that'll be quite long, I assume 12:03:59 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFA542.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:04:04 <dune> bah :p thx for beeing so optimistic ^^ 12:05:26 <dune> downloading TortoiseSVN then.. 12:05:57 <berndj> is there a nice place where building openttd is documented? i tried once but got stuck when it wanted all sorts of weird tools like "renum" (but apparently NOT the "renum" you get from apt-get install renum) 12:07:01 <Terkhen> http://wiki.openttd.org/GNU/Linux 12:07:14 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-213-49-111-2.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 12:09:57 *** dune [bah@84-16-208.101.3p.ntebredband.no] has quit [Quit: no comment] 12:10:20 <planetmaker> berndj, (nfo)renum is not required for OpenTTD 12:10:31 <planetmaker> it's a tool to build (new)grf 12:11:18 <planetmaker> http://www.openttd.org/en/development <-- berndj 12:11:40 <planetmaker> that's the requirements listed 12:11:49 <planetmaker> a compiler should ship with your linux by default 12:12:02 <Ammler> there is no other renum than nforenum, afaik 12:14:26 <berndj> planetmaker, i think it was while i was trying to build opengfx 12:14:43 <planetmaker> berndj, yes, it's a requirement for OpenGFX, sure 12:14:53 <planetmaker> that's a bundle of grfs. 12:16:23 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:24:24 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:69ba:4ac9:4cf9:ce09] has joined #openttd 12:24:27 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:33:00 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 12:35:02 *** JostVice [~jostvice@85.136.129.22.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 12:55:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BF2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:04:32 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:06:26 <Jupix> do the wood & steel wagons share the same cc mask? 13:06:57 <planetmaker> they are different sprites 13:07:04 <Jupix> ok, thx 13:07:13 <Sacro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Married_pair :\ 13:07:50 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc2a58.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:24:39 *** Brin [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 13:26:22 *** KloBass [~hadameko@193.179.62.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:26:48 *** piro_ [~jeremy@pohl.ececs.uc.edu] has joined #openttd 13:28:27 *** FauxFaux_ [faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 13:29:00 *** aw0x [~alex@gaww.net] has joined #openttd 13:29:14 *** Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> oxygen.oftc.net quits: piro, Wizzleby, FauxFaux, awox, @Belugas, Jolteon, Andel, KouDy 13:29:14 *** Brin is now known as KouDy 13:29:30 *** RDL1 [~Jolt@rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 13:30:00 *** Netsplit over, joins: Belugas 13:30:00 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 13:33:35 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 13:34:35 *** Andel [~andel@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 13:35:10 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35:53 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 14:03:22 *** ashaw [~alexis@58.108.161.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:04:17 *** RDL1 is now known as Jolteon 14:04:36 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 14:12:09 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:14:45 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFA542.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30:40 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-213-49-111-2.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 14:57:17 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-248-246.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:00:38 *** lugo [~lugo@f055216087.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:04:44 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 15:06:48 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BF2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:13 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:25:16 *** lugo [~lugo@f055216087.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 15:33:38 *** lugo [~lugo@f055216087.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:35:57 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:36:03 *** lugo [~lugo@f055216087.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 15:36:59 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 15:37:02 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 15:43:46 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 15:49:47 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.14.22] has joined #openttd 15:49:57 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:55:53 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:56:04 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:02:13 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:04:49 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:04:56 *** Tennel [~Tennel@port-ip-213-211-212-60.reverse.mdcc-fun.de] has joined #openttd 16:07:42 <Eddi|zuHause> ... hm, apparently tomorrow is a big star trek marathon... 16:08:02 <Eddi|zuHause> like 15 TOS episodes and 3 movies... 16:08:48 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@ip-186-139-106-77.eidsiva.net] has joined #openttd 16:10:20 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2D9E94.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:11:57 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@ip-186-139-106-77.eidsiva.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:12:13 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:14:04 <tokai> Eddi|zuHause: Are people really that bored to watch that? 16:14:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea... just noticed this while skimming the EPG 16:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> plus, everybody outside the target group of star trek is drunk and fighting with the police anyway :p 16:16:22 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/berlin/292473/292474.php <-- related news ;) 16:16:29 <Eddi|zuHause> [german] 16:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> court in berlin rules that throwing an empty beer bottle or a stone at the police is not an assault with a weapon 16:19:26 <OwenS> O_o 16:24:11 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 16:25:35 <tokai> Eddi|zuHause: Sounds almost like an invitation to do so. :) 16:25:58 <Alberth> tomorrow is your chance :) 16:26:51 <Alberth> assuming you are not bored enough to watch ST tomorrow :p 16:32:11 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 16:42:22 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:15 *** fjb [~frank@p5485EF6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46:46 *** fjb [~frank@p5485EF6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:50:47 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 16:50:50 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 16:54:27 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-23-141.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 16:58:44 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:05:04 *** Keyboard_Warrior is now known as theholyduck 17:16:46 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@ip-186-139-106-77.eidsiva.net] has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 17:17:18 *** aw0x [~alex@gaww.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:18:01 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.152.89] has joined #openttd 17:21:28 *** kyo313 [~kyo@93-97-250-157.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:22:12 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc2a58.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:22:27 *** fjb [~frank@p5485EF6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:49 *** andythenorth [~andytheno@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 17:26:16 <andythenorth> hi hi 17:39:31 <Alberth> hi 17:44:04 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BF2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:45:47 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19740 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 17:45:47 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:47 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 16 changes by josesun 17:45:47 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: hungarian - 26 changes by IPG 17:45:47 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: indonesian - 18 changes by prof 17:45:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: irish - 640 changes by tem 17:45:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 1 changes by Phreeze 17:46:11 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.152.89] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f6449.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:54:28 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.152.89] has joined #openttd 17:58:33 * andythenorth wonders about patching stations so they act like depots 17:59:14 <andythenorth> not so much for train building, but for servicing, and above all, refitting 17:59:22 <andythenorth> train / vehicles /s 18:00:28 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:00:29 <Alberth> it would get done instantly? then it seems a lot of work for little gain imho. 18:01:08 <andythenorth> might add a whole new dimension to routing though 18:01:29 <andythenorth> go to A, unload, refit, go to B, run empty to C, refit again etc 18:02:20 <Alberth> oh, it is a station as well. yes, that would make a difference. 18:02:41 <Alberth> although I wonder how many people do refitting in their orders 18:02:48 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:02:48 <andythenorth> I find it a bit weird that refitting by orders is possible but nobody bothers 18:03:09 <andythenorth> I think it's because (a) it costs too much in some newgrfs (b) it's a hassle routing to depots 18:05:02 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it] 18:05:10 <Alberth> I cannot even come up with a useful example to have more than one cargo at the same network get combined in that way. 18:05:20 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 18:06:07 <Rubidium> Alberth: steel+town station <-> factory station 18:06:55 <andythenorth> it's standard routing behaviour in railroad tycoon 18:06:59 <Alberth> what about the cargo ratios? 18:07:19 <andythenorth> doesn't matter? 18:07:28 <Rubidium> less steel per wagon than goods, so if you don't full load at the factory it'd work quite well 18:07:34 <frosch123> you cannot properly use "full load" ad the steel station 18:07:57 <frosch123> so unless you have really lot of production, the rating dropps to much 18:08:08 <andythenorth> aslo there would be a problem getting the load if the industry processes instantly 18:08:13 <Alberth> nor at factories that don't do instant production 18:09:20 <andythenorth> well it would be more realistic :P 18:09:55 <Alberth> in reality, somebody from the factory gives you a call "today we have no more cargo for you" :) 18:10:20 <andythenorth> setting % load amounts would be useful? 18:10:49 <Alberth> that only reduces the problem, it does not eliminate it, I think 18:11:23 <Alberth> ie I have to make a good estimate of the percentage 18:11:55 <Alberth> we would need something like 'no cargo for x ticks' -> leave. 18:12:13 <andythenorth> perhaps 'stations are like depots' is a bad idea :) 18:12:22 <andythenorth> but % cargo loaded might not be 18:12:38 <Alberth> perhaps refit orders is a bad idea :) 18:12:46 <andythenorth> perhaps 18:12:59 <andythenorth> seems a bit silly to be running empty ships around the place 18:13:12 <andythenorth> for example 18:13:28 <andythenorth> and same for freight aircraft 18:13:57 <Alberth> can we make a container? 18:14:08 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause suggested it 18:14:11 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:14:17 <andythenorth> how though? 18:14:34 <andythenorth> I can't even begin to see how it would work :o 18:15:04 <Alberth> a factory that takes a cargo and produces a container, and a factory^(-1) would be one option. 18:15:39 <Alberth> more advanced is to literally store cargo in the container in the sense that you still know what went in when unpacking. 18:17:51 <andythenorth> so vehicles could handle multiple cargos inside 'containers' 18:18:27 <andythenorth> and containers wouldn't have to be 20' or 40' TEU steel containers? They could just be a 'box' with certain class and capacity? 18:18:49 <Alberth> well, container is a well-known standardized transport medium for ships and aircraft (though the containers are different :p ) 18:19:20 <Alberth> if you generalize the idea, probably yes. 18:19:22 <andythenorth> I am trying to understand if this works pre 1950s :) e.g. with wooden crates 18:19:52 <Alberth> I didn't claim it would work for '50s vehicles too ;) 18:20:46 <Alberth> all packet delivery companies basically do the same, except the containers have no uniform size. 18:23:20 <andythenorth> Is it technically possible? 18:23:29 <andythenorth> I kind of like the idea 18:26:11 <frosch123> to cite a common suggestion: allow building warehouses at the station which keep the rating up as long as they are not filled 18:28:54 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd 18:30:13 <Alberth> 'have a warehouse, but don't use it' :p 18:30:33 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:31:23 <Alberth> whether it is technically possible, I don't know. Probably not atm, or you must be able to do it in newgrf entirely. 18:32:52 <Alberth> if you start shuffling here, it may be better to make a bigger step, and remove the '1 cargo only' limitation. 18:33:01 <Alberth> but that is also just a wild suggestion :p 18:33:42 <andythenorth> I liked the 'refit at stations' idea because (unlike many ideas) it is about transportation and logistics 18:33:59 <andythenorth> back loads and efficient routing are important for transport companies 18:33:59 <frosch123> i guess cb 145 could be extended, if it were stationpart specific or so... 18:34:10 <frosch123> what do you mean with '1 cargo only'? 18:34:50 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:35:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: why does it make a big difference for you to send the train to a depot between unload and load? 18:35:21 <Alberth> there is not a '1 cargo only' limit for vehicles? 18:35:59 <frosch123> not for trains, and not for articulated road vehicles 18:36:16 <frosch123> but they are hard to handle as you cannot refit individual parts 18:36:42 <Alberth> in newgrf, or is it a gui problem? 18:37:41 <frosch123> at gui mostly, though newgrf likely rely on being refitted the homogeneous 18:38:38 <frosch123> e.g. vehicle might look different for different cargos, which will look very wrong if the parts are directly connected 18:39:33 <Alberth> :) 18:39:39 <frosch123> however for trains you can detach wagons, refit them at some other engine, and reattach them (though grfs might refuse that). but not for orders :) 18:40:33 <frosch123> (though you can likely revert the refitting if the newgrf rejects reattaching 18:40:49 * Alberth envisions a depot/station where the train gets split and coupled again 18:41:53 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 18:42:37 * Rubidium wonders whether Alberth ever read the suggestions forum/feature requests on the tracker 18:44:42 <Alberth> those texts mention 'realism', and start at the point where I am wondering about feasibility 18:45:04 <frosch123> Alberth: if you can envision a gui for refitting some wagons only manually in depot and per order :) 18:45:43 <andythenorth> frosch123: maybe I should try playing a game using 'refit in depot' again. I dunno, it just seems annoying though 18:46:00 <frosch123> to refit articulated parts differently we would likely need some vehicle flag allowing that 18:47:15 <frosch123> hmm, otoh, maybe andy, maybe the vehicle refuses to stop a second time at the same station 18:48:05 <frosch123> but well... 18:48:08 * frosch123 << food 18:48:13 <andythenorth> me too 18:49:13 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BF2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:55:21 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 18:56:45 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:20 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 19:22:16 <TrueBrain> why do OpenTTD people want to invite me on their facebook? 19:23:28 <ccfreak2k> Because you are a true brain? 19:23:51 <PeterT> are you looking for a serious answer? 19:27:10 <Alberth> you are their last hope :p 19:27:35 <TrueBrain> lol @ Alberth :) 19:28:57 <Alberth> oh sorry, that was LinkedIn :) 19:29:30 <frosch123> are you talking about that old stupid mail, or is someone trying it again? 19:29:45 <TrueBrain> LinkedIn is on my ignore list 19:29:51 <TrueBrain> but the facebook one was new 19:31:47 <frosch123> hmm, maybe i should ignore the forward from openttd. iirc i never received a serious one. 19:32:12 <TrueBrain> lol :) 19:32:28 <TrueBrain> I have 2 to 3 mails a week which require my attention 19:33:10 <frosch123> poor you :) i only get scam and those stupid "why are you not in my social network"-stuff :( 19:33:56 <TrueBrain> we should trace those people and punish them 19:35:37 <Alberth> The 'others' row in the financial overview window seems like a good candidate 19:36:32 <frosch123> for punishing? 19:36:57 <Alberth> sure, 50% other costs as a first warning 19:37:16 <Alberth> (of your bank balance at max loan) 19:40:31 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@yoda.zernebok.com] has joined #openttd 19:52:01 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc2a58.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:01:30 <Turgid> What do the colored dots next to each vehicle mean, in the vehicle list? 20:01:46 <frosch123> profit last year 20:02:10 <Turgid> What's the difference between a grey dot and a green dot? 20:02:29 <Turgid> I mean obviously green is more, but what's the cutoff? 20:02:39 <frosch123> grey means the engine is not old enough to be considered for profit calcuation 20:02:57 <Turgid> Oh, awesome. Thanks. 20:09:26 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-165-177.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:09:52 <andythenorth> so would 'containers' be a cargo? (some kind of containing the actual cargo?) 20:10:06 <andythenorth> or would it be a magic refit to the actual cargo? 20:10:30 <andythenorth> oops 'some kind of *wrapper* containing the actual cargo' 20:11:18 <frosch123> what? 20:11:32 <andythenorth> the idea Alberth was pondering 20:12:04 * andythenorth can't visualise how it works in gameplay 20:12:35 <Alberth> (08:16:13 PM) Alberth: can we make a container? <-- I just asked a question :) 20:12:47 <andythenorth> :) 20:12:52 <andythenorth> ah, but what is a container? 20:13:06 <andythenorth> or....how do players use a container? 20:13:07 <andythenorth> :) 20:13:08 * Alberth ponders 20:13:29 <andythenorth> some industries produce goods pre-packaged in 'containers'? Seems a bit sucky 20:13:46 <Alberth> why? 20:14:00 <Alberth> I bet many industries in China do that 20:14:13 <Alberth> but in general, yeah 20:14:39 <andythenorth> if we have the concept of a generic container, it seems silly to exclude cargos like chemicals 20:14:48 <Alberth> for eg ships it makes sense to have them as a cargo 20:14:58 * frosch123 can think of three solutions, one more useless than the other :) 1. draw containers on the vehicle and refit to whatever you want. 2. add container-compatible cargo class to restrict refitting. 3. add container cargo and let the player make sure that containers from food plant are not transported to the vehicle factory 20:15:04 <andythenorth> a special station tile that 'containerises' cargos? 20:15:06 * theholyduck was reading with 1 eye half open 20:15:10 <theholyduck> and thought you were talking about video formats 20:15:30 <Alberth> at OpenTTD, with andythenorth ? 20:15:40 <theholyduck> Alberth, well i hang in like 8 multimedia channels 20:15:41 <andythenorth> frosch123: I think this might be more the concept of generic containers than ISO containers (steel boxes)? 20:15:45 <theholyduck> i forgot what channel i was looking at 20:15:52 <theholyduck> and when people start spouting the word container and player 20:15:59 <theholyduck> i think multimedia 20:16:16 <andythenorth> I can draw containers & figure out generic refitting, but I am thinking of something that works for box cars, gondolas, delivery vans etc 20:16:45 <andythenorth> the point is to allow mixed cargos on vehicles that don't currently allow that 20:17:03 <Alberth> the question seems to be where does packing/unpacking take place? 20:17:07 <andythenorth> yup 20:17:10 <frosch123> so, basically ships, right? 20:17:20 <andythenorth> maybe airplanes 20:17:29 <andythenorth> aeroplanes /s 20:17:47 <Alberth> ship-planes :) 20:17:53 <andythenorth> ekranoplan :P 20:17:57 <andythenorth> hovercraft :P 20:18:02 <andythenorth> hydrofoil :P 20:18:06 <andythenorth> all ship-planes 20:18:16 <Alberth> container raft :) 20:18:39 <andythenorth> I would like to be able to run general merchandise trains back and forth between cities 20:18:49 <Alberth> for some cases, you want to do it at a station/dock 20:18:59 <andythenorth> but this idea could produce a huge problem for actually routing the cargo 20:19:20 <Alberth> but if you want to transport the containers as-is, that should also be an option without explicit visit to some factory 20:19:36 <andythenorth> special station tile... 20:19:47 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc2a58.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:20:03 <Alberth> it is a form of 'station facilities' 20:20:11 <frosch123> hmm. actually you could turn the cargotype of a vehicle into a bitmask to accept multiple cargos, and store the actualy cargotype in the cargopacket 20:20:25 <frosch123> -y 20:20:44 <andythenorth> so I have 'containers' of chemicals waiting at location A. Train arrives with empty wagons for 'containers', next destination is B. But B doesn't accept chemicals, I want to route those to C. 20:20:46 <andythenorth> this is a problem 20:21:00 <frosch123> so you could refit a boxcar to carry 30 crates of food, goods or other stuff in any ratio 20:21:38 <frosch123> or you could refit a ship to carry any cargo with "container-compatible"-cargoclass in any ratio at the same time 20:21:54 <andythenorth> I think it's worthwhile, but the routing problem troubles me 20:22:02 <Alberth> the simpler case of transporting a container from a dock to a city, and have it there unfold to 'goods' or so is already a problem 20:22:15 <Alberth> ie and not unfold at the dock 20:22:42 <andythenorth> so this has multiple problems :) 20:22:49 <andythenorth> well maybe it's an interesting problem 20:22:56 <frosch123> so you would need to specify in the orders which cargotypes to load/unload 20:23:06 <andythenorth> or have cargo dist routing packets 20:23:21 <Alberth> what if we always pack/unpack at stations? we can simply repack to a container if needed. 20:23:41 <Alberth> s/pack\// 20:23:43 <frosch123> Alberth: but it would always reload all types 20:23:57 <Alberth> good point 20:23:59 <andythenorth> it's the same problem as has existed for years with transfers 20:24:22 * andythenorth just loves building two stations for passenger transfer systems (one drop, one pickup) 20:24:28 <frosch123> but as i understand andy he wants to collect food and goods at A, drive to B, unload food, drive to C, and unload goods there 20:24:48 <andythenorth> frosch123: not specifically 20:25:04 <Alberth> you'd need a bitset of allowed cargoes in a container 20:25:08 <andythenorth> go to A, load steel, go to B, unload steel, go to C load scrap metal, go to A would do me 20:26:32 <Alberth> always automatic unpacking at stations prevent problems where you need to know where the container is going to at the moment you create it 20:27:16 <Alberth> (ie I cannot combine steel and goods, because at the other end, it gets loaded to different destinations) 20:27:48 <andythenorth> seems to me that 'containers' are just vehicles that refit to whatever is waiting? 20:28:00 <andythenorth> (limited by their refit classes etc) 20:28:30 <Alberth> in a sense, except they accept all possible size combinations. 20:28:41 <frosch123> andythenorth: i guess rather load different types of cargo in the same vehicle 20:29:07 <andythenorth> for the ship/plane case different types is way better 20:29:20 <andythenorth> for the truck / boxcar case, 'magic' refit is ok 20:29:22 <frosch123> hmm, the ratio could be limited by the "load amount" 20:30:27 <andythenorth> so the orders would specify possible refits & ratios? 20:30:45 <frosch123> i guess extending the vehicle variables and cargopackets would be no problem. but maybe extending the (packet) order struct and the gui :s 20:31:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: maybe the order could say "load any of a, b and c" resp. "unload all of a, b and c" 20:32:11 <frosch123> though you get into trouble if you want to unload cargo a, transfer cargo b, unload c only when accepted, and keep d :p 20:32:29 <andythenorth> meh. 20:32:45 <andythenorth> otherwise a good idea though frosch123 20:32:53 <andythenorth> I can think of real cases for it 20:33:22 <andythenorth> it might make timetabling interesting for general freight trains / ships 20:34:11 *** kyo313 [~kyo@93-97-250-157.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:34:17 <andythenorth> picking up farm cargos. Delivering food and goods to towns 20:34:21 <frosch123> well, you could also send such a train to a industry, unload it, and let it wait timetabled to load the produced cargo or so... 20:35:12 <andythenorth> run food from one town, pickup goods, run them back 20:35:23 <Alberth> what if we have several load/unload orders underneath each other at the same station and we do them all together? 20:35:53 <frosch123> but well, i guess you need to restrict it to only some cargos. it might be too easy if you can transport any cargo in universal wagons 20:36:05 <Alberth> I was thinking that too 20:36:07 <andythenorth> has to be by class at minimum 20:36:24 <frosch123> Alberth: sounds fine, you could also put conditional orders inbetween them 20:36:37 <frosch123> but you would still need to add a cargo type 20:38:14 * andythenorth feels like he needs a diagram :P we've discussed quite a few ideas above 20:41:13 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:43:16 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 20:43:19 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 20:45:38 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 20:50:33 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19741 /branches/1.0/ (14 files in 7 dirs): 21:01:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk: 21:01:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Crash when using restart via rcon (r19722) 21:01:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Leaking a file descriptor [FS#3785] (r19695) 21:01:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Crash when the music/graphics metadata files were unreadable [FS#3774] (r19674) 21:08:17 <Eddi|zuHause> release in an hour? 21:13:31 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.] 21:13:47 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 21:14:18 <Alberth> KouDy: do you get paid to lose connection and spam the channel with a commercial? 21:14:51 <Rubidium> Alberth: no, hydrairc is just an extremely annoying IRC client 21:15:30 <Alberth> ah, they build it into the software. How clever 21:23:55 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFA542.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:24:55 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19742 /tags/1.0.1/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Release: 1.0.1 21:25:16 <planetmaker> :-) 21:25:35 <planetmaker> kudos :-) 21:25:55 * Sacro flags arch out of date 21:25:57 <Rubidium> ~40-45 minutes till binaries 21:26:42 <TrueBrain> baking in the oven 21:26:45 <TrueBrain> they smell good 21:27:10 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.] 21:28:24 <dih> those smell good too when put in the oven :-P 21:28:55 <TrueBrain> I wonder what would happen if I turn up the heat of these ovens 21:28:58 <TrueBrain> would they burn the binaries? 21:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> burnaries? 21:29:26 <TrueBrain> sounds like a new release method :) 21:29:33 <Alberth> nah, you just get garbled bits, and fried cpus :) 21:29:56 <TrueBrain> the latter is what worries me :p 21:30:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Spoilin' nice fish. Give it to us raw and w-r-r-riggling 21:32:16 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: that's available by cloning 21:32:32 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.152.89] has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 21:33:58 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.152.89] has joined #openttd 21:44:30 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BF2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:47:05 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:47:19 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 21:47:50 <SmatZ> hello Nite_Owl 21:48:04 <Nite_Owl> Hello SmatZ 21:52:47 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:55:54 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.14.22] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 22:12:01 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:12:44 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2D9E94.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Regel Nr. 1: Jeder hört auf mein Kommando! - Regel Nr. 2: Jeder bleibt auf dem Weg! - Regel Nr. 3: ... ... Der, der blÀht, als hinterster geht!] 22:14:55 <TrueBrain> My usual 3-month-banner in this channel: http://www.opendune.org/index.php/94/opendune-0-3-release.php <- OpenDUNE 0.3 is released :) 22:18:14 *** Yexo [~Yexo@205-89-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Quit: bye] 22:18:31 *** Yexo [~Yexo@205-89-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 22:19:18 *** Tennel [~Tennel@port-ip-213-211-212-60.reverse.mdcc-fun.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 22:20:47 <Rubidium> Wizzleby: not sure how much you care about the Gentoo package, but I've got the feeling bug#317911 is caused by Gentoo importing a broken libsdl patch from Debian 22:26:19 * frosch123 masked media-libs/libsdl 1.2.14-r2 22:26:46 <frosch123> and yes, r1 and r2 differ exactly in that debian patch 22:27:28 <Wizzleby> hmm. well I can't fix that myself, but I can make sure the bug goes to the right people who can 22:28:57 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BF2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:36 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:31:44 <Terkhen> good night 22:31:51 <SmatZ> good night, Terkhen 22:33:52 <Wizzleby> wrt the openttd gentoo package, I sort of picked it up when 1.0.0 was in beta. games herd was not interested in it till it hit releae, but people wanted it. Not being a dev myself, I took it upon myself to maintain it in an overlay. The main ebuild for openttd needed (and still does) some work though 22:35:19 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: I hope the server can take two releases on a day :) 22:36:30 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-165-177.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:37:18 <Wizzleby> mostly stuff that I need to ask you folks about: like iconv, whether it is needed or not under linux. The configure script skips checking for it on a linux host, but can be overridden (which the previous maintainer decided to allow for with an iconv USE flag). Some users have had bugs with this setup and certain versions of glibc, where iconv pops up errors to stderr about being unable to read convert some character or another 22:37:18 <Wizzleby> in some file that happened to be in the dir where they ran openttd 22:37:22 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 22:38:36 <Rubidium> gentoo is the origin of the configure part that actually allows iconv to be selected for linux 22:39:15 <Rubidium> I am not aware of ANY other linux distribution ever even asking about iconv 22:39:50 <glx> why use iconv when you can use utf-8 natively ;) 22:40:07 <Wizzleby> huh. Kind of ironic that I'm here now then, asking what point it could possibly have 22:41:24 * Wizzleby only started with gentoo within the past year, so, really knows nothing about what whoever was the maintainer for openttd was thinking 22:41:49 <Rubidium> neither do I know what they are/were thinking 22:41:53 <Wizzleby> glx: that's what I was wondering about it 22:42:17 <Rubidium> but I seem to remember something about non-ascii/non-utf8 filenames 22:45:15 <Wizzleby> Rubidium: it does not appear to have an explicit maintainer these days. not many folks in the games herd, though I did find the bug where the patch was added, initially in the portage tree, and I recognize the guy and can ask him 22:45:31 <Wizzleby> s:the guy:the guy who attached the patch to the bug: 22:45:58 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-248-246.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Something strange must have happened...] 22:50:02 <Wizzleby> it seems that the original maintainers for openttd retired as gentoo devs around 2008 22:50:26 <Rubidium> Wizzleby: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=578389 <- that's Debian bug report about the broken patch 22:51:23 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ff1ec000-127.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:51:57 <Rubidium> anyhow, my amount of trust in the Gentoo games/security maintainer is *very* low 22:55:30 <frosch123> night 22:55:35 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f6449.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:30 *** GEORGE_W_BUSH [~HAPPY_CON@86.84-49-167.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 22:56:53 <GEORGE_W_BUSH> anyone want to play lol 22:56:59 <Wizzleby> Rubidium: wrt the games herd, its only 4 people large these days, and with a high load of packages, many of them very troublesome to maintain. As far as herds go, I think it needs some love, and work. I can't speak wrt the QA/security team as I am not yet familiar with many of them 22:57:01 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 22:59:54 <Rubidium> Wizzleby: security... they make CVE entries for unexploitable bugs yet fail to see the real exploits, they kinda fail to adequately handle exploits (0.7.5 is after 4.5 months STILL not marked stable leaving a known network exploitable OpenTTD) and they manage to make incorrect CVE entries (telling it's fixed in some version when it clearly isn't) 23:01:50 <Rubidium> Debian, that doesn't have security support, has released a fixed/patched version to their stable version (though via a point release which meant waiting for a month) 23:02:20 <Rubidium> (it doesn't have security support for OpenTTD as it was in non-free at that time) 23:03:37 <Rubidium> Fedora pushed a new version within reasonable time to their stable releases 23:03:40 <Wizzleby> Rubidium: I can acknowledge those as issues (ones I would consider serious too). Best I can give you as a response is that as I complete the process of becoming a dev myself (and with an eventual goal of getting into the applicable teams for security and QA) that I'll do my best to address those shortcomings 23:03:50 <Wizzleby> For whatever that's worth 23:04:15 <theholyduck> Rubidium, my trust in gentoo maintainers 23:04:18 <theholyduck> is non existant 23:04:29 <Wizzleby> I can also try and poke people in the immediate future about getting 0.7.3 masked for removal 23:04:42 <theholyduck> a good 40% of all the package problems i encounter in my days of linux support 23:04:44 <theholyduck> are gentoo related 23:04:51 <theholyduck> with most of the rest being ubuntu and its bastard children 23:05:21 <Rubidium> Wizzleby: FYI, 1.0.1 has a bunch of security fixes too 23:05:27 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:06 <Rubidium> theholyduck: ghehe... Ubuntu... with pulseaudio and also poor security support (I even fracking made a patch for each of their versions; never going to do that again) 23:06:09 <theholyduck> gentoo is infact the only distro i know that refuses to remove a package because its unmaintained 23:06:23 <theholyduck> as in literally 23:06:30 <theholyduck> they have given the reason 23:06:38 <theholyduck> "we wont remove this package because nobody maintains i" 23:06:43 <theholyduck> *maintains it 23:07:05 <theholyduck> stuff like that make me want to stab in the night 23:07:20 <Wizzleby> Rubidium: I'm preparing 1.0.1 in overlay currently, will see about filing an expedited security stable bug wrt it 23:07:27 <theholyduck> Rubidium, well the 1 principle advantage of ubuntu, is that while they have alot of package issues 23:07:29 <Sacro> Rubidium: arch-nullsfk has gone 23:07:33 <theholyduck> i can point an ubuntu user at a forum post 23:07:37 <theholyduck> and 9 times out of 10 23:07:43 <theholyduck> they can copy paste the instructions to fix the problem 23:07:55 <theholyduck> trying to talk a gentoo user through compiling packages by hand to fix their broken distro ones 23:07:56 <Rubidium> Sacro: I know 23:08:25 <theholyduck> is like trying to do dancing on stilts with rollerblades on the end 23:08:33 <Wizzleby> theholyduck: for a long time, there was no team in gentoo whose focus was to remove dead packages. There is now though 23:08:38 <theholyduck> its all going to end in tears and broken pelvis 23:08:49 <theholyduck> *and a 23:10:03 <theholyduck> Wizzleby, the worst thing about gentoo problems though, are the users that come to you for help. 23:10:33 <theholyduck> heck, the rise in populairty of gentoo is why i stopped general linux support and dedicated myself to multimedia 23:11:08 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:11:45 * theholyduck shakes his fists at gentoo 23:11:55 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:58 <Wizzleby> theholyduck: I must be lucky, so far the support I've done with it hasn't been among my worst tech support experiences 23:12:20 <theholyduck> Wizzleby, also, you occationally see the completely nonsescial 23:12:24 <theholyduck> a couple of years back 23:12:39 <theholyduck> i was trying to figure out why this guys mplayer wasnt showing .ass subtitles 23:13:00 <theholyduck> and after hours of poking around, it turns out that back then, to enable libass in mplayer 23:13:04 <Rubidium> because he didn't have the ARSE useflag 23:13:08 <theholyduck> you hadd to USE = SRT 23:13:17 <theholyduck> wich makes marginal sense at best 23:13:32 <theholyduck> they fixed that relativly recently though 23:14:07 <theholyduck> but still, mislabeled useflags like that, or mandatory deps marked as optional 23:14:15 <theholyduck> its a minefiel 23:14:17 <theholyduck> d 23:14:44 <peter1138> fuck the mother fucker! 23:15:20 <peter1138> sorry, just watched tim minchin's pope song 23:15:28 *** glx_ [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:69ba:4ac9:4cf9:ce09] has joined #openttd 23:15:31 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx_] by ChanServ 23:15:39 <Wizzleby> well, for my purposes I enjoy it too much to discard it, and so would rather actually help fix the issues. 23:15:52 <Wizzleby> s:actually:just: 23:16:01 <Rubidium> peter1138: wouldn't that be "fuck the altar boy fucker"? 23:16:17 <theholyduck> i'd rather they ditched it and invented/implemented a from source packagemanager that worked consitently 23:16:26 <peter1138> not the pope himself, heh 23:16:29 <peter1138> at least, i assuem 23:16:30 <theholyduck> then only let people who proven they understand the concept of maintaining packages 23:16:34 <theholyduck> do it 23:16:45 <peter1138> http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DfHRDfut2Vx0 23:16:47 <peter1138> or something 23:16:53 <theholyduck> also, dont provide step by step instalation instructions 23:17:10 <theholyduck> that way you can loose all those tiresom former ubuntu users talking about how much amazing they learned from gentoo 23:17:12 *** glx is now known as Guest1926 23:17:12 *** glx_ is now known as glx 23:17:19 <theholyduck> and "BUILDING YOUR SYSTAM FROM SCRATCH! 23:17:20 <theholyduck> " 23:17:21 <theholyduck> etc 23:17:34 <theholyduck> now that is a distro i'd approve of 23:17:44 <Rubidium> ah LFS :) 23:17:58 <Rubidium> got bored around libc 23:18:08 *** welterde [~welterde@hex.srv.welterde.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:18:09 <theholyduck> Rubidium, well, the most tiring gentoo user are the ones talking about how amazing gentoo is that lets you install by hand, etc,etc 23:18:14 <theholyduck> and all the other things every distro lets you 23:18:38 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D0A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:19:14 <theholyduck> actually, i should write a debian sid installer system and guide for the "l33t h4cker" who wants a completely optimized, built from scratch system they configured by hand themself, more gentoo buzzwords here. 23:19:29 <theholyduck> just to prove a point 23:19:46 <Wizzleby> I did LFS before, it was.. tedious, but a fun experience 23:20:35 <theholyduck> the one thing i actually genuinly should do 23:20:37 <Wizzleby> theholyduck: the funny thing about points, is that even if you prove them, it is no guaruntee others 'get' the point ;) 23:20:57 <theholyduck> is finish up my debian/ubuntu package manager addon 23:21:25 <Rubidium> theholyduck: does that support adding patches to the kernel package? As doing that is kinda non-trivial 23:21:25 <theholyduck> a couple of years back i wrote a basic compile from source packagemanager in bash to integrate with apt 23:21:48 <theholyduck> mostly for making automated mplayer/ffmpeg builds 23:21:51 <theholyduck> once a week 23:22:03 *** Guest1926 [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:69ba:4ac9:4cf9:ce09] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:22:14 <theholyduck> i should finish that up, and release it as apt-duck or something 23:22:37 <theholyduck> becuase unlike almost every other script i write, it was actually useful and usable 23:22:58 <Rubidium> peter1138: sounds like a song to run on the airport at the moment an American delegation and the pope arrive 23:24:29 <theholyduck> essentially, it was portage but instead of the tedious useflags, it used a ncurses based system walking you through major and minor configure options 23:25:50 <fjb> Sounds a bit like FreeBSD's ports system. 23:26:03 <theholyduck> fjb, well techincally i essentially ripped it off lunar linux 23:26:27 <OwenS> Isn't there a prebuilt dpkg tool for building sdebs into debs? 23:26:43 <theholyduck> OwenS, well the point wasnt using sdebs :P 23:26:50 <Rubidium> yeah, but that doesn't configure your packages 23:26:54 <theholyduck> but svn's, gits, up to date snapshots 23:26:56 <theholyduck> etc 23:27:01 <OwenS> Aah 23:27:05 <theholyduck> or experimental features 23:27:17 <theholyduck> for mplayer i offered mplayer svn, mplayer uau, git 23:27:21 <theholyduck> both with and without ffmpeg-mt 23:27:32 <theholyduck> *mplayer from uau's git 23:27:46 <theholyduck> ffmpeg had latest stable or latest svn 23:27:48 <theholyduck> etc 23:28:29 <theholyduck> essentially, letting you pick the exact version and type of package you wanted for what 23:29:05 <theholyduck> simelarly the system could have been extended to say, specifying svn revisions of a package you want 23:29:09 <theholyduck> if you wanted a specific revision 23:30:15 <theholyduck> the real beauty of it though, is that it was still a debian sid system for all the underlying packages, and the compile time stuff was essentially for special software with special needs 23:31:11 <OwenS> I wonder... are Debian/Ubuntu shipping mplayer with vdpau support these days? 23:33:50 <theholyduck> they are 23:33:53 <OwenS> :) 23:33:54 <OwenS> Haha... A bug in the Kubuntu distribution upgrade app: It appends text where the cursor is 23:34:02 <theholyduck> due to a mplayer hackaround 23:34:05 <theholyduck> essentially 23:34:09 <OwenS> Huh? 23:34:16 <Rubidium> OwenS: I remember seeing that while starting some video 23:34:17 <theholyduck> ubuntu refuses to upgrade mplayer 23:34:20 <theholyduck> because mplayer doesnt do releases 23:34:22 <theholyduck> only svn 23:34:27 <theholyduck> soo. 23:34:35 <theholyduck> the mplayer devs convinced some debian devs 23:34:39 <theholyduck> of taking a svn snapshot 23:34:43 <theholyduck> and calling it mplayer 1.0 rc3 23:34:48 <OwenS> lol 23:34:48 <theholyduck> its not ACTUALLY a release, 23:34:50 <Rubidium> not doing releases is (IMO) stupid 23:35:00 <theholyduck> then 23:35:09 <Rubidium> I was wondering what vpdau actually was 23:35:11 <theholyduck> next ubuntu release rolls around 23:35:18 <theholyduck> and ubuntu imports the debian svn snapshot 23:35:24 <theholyduck> and gets vdpau, etc,etc 23:35:28 <OwenS> Rubidium: Video Display and Presentation API for Unix :) 23:35:33 <theholyduck> then intrestingly, 23:35:41 <theholyduck> GENTOO 23:35:44 <theholyduck> labels their svn releases 23:35:50 <theholyduck> as rc4 23:35:56 <OwenS> nVIDIA's standard for video decode. Also supported by S3. ATi invented their own XVBA. Intel has VAAPI. Its a mess 23:35:57 <theholyduck> but the only existing mplayer release is still rc2 :P 23:36:17 <theholyduck> OwenS, well vaapi is supposed to be able to do both xvba and vdpau 23:36:29 <theholyduck> as in, be a wrapper 23:36:34 <theholyduck> Rubidium, well. 23:36:39 <theholyduck> mplayer has almost no devs 23:36:40 <OwenS> theholyduck: sure. But note there are no native working VAAPI drivers XD 23:36:43 <theholyduck> and the few devs it does have 23:36:47 <theholyduck> are all busy writing code 23:36:51 <theholyduck> fixing stuff, adding new features 23:36:52 <theholyduck> etc 23:37:00 <theholyduck> theres nobody who feels like doing feature freezes 23:37:04 <theholyduck> bugfixes on olde releases, etc 23:37:09 <theholyduck> theres no manpower for it 23:37:44 <theholyduck> essentially, they dont do releases because they're so few people, that produce quite alot of new code 23:37:54 <theholyduck> that theres no manpower to try and make releases 23:38:03 <theholyduck> its a purely practical decission 23:38:29 <theholyduck> mplayer svn is still generally quite stable 23:38:44 <theholyduck> so theres no real reason not to just compile from it 23:40:08 <theholyduck> ffmpeg effectivly does no releases either 23:40:15 <theholyduck> they've done one in the last. what.. 23:40:18 <theholyduck> 6 years? 23:40:23 <theholyduck> well a bit less maybe 23:40:41 <__ln___> someone's having a monologue here it seems.... 23:40:45 <theholyduck> __ln___, :P 23:41:36 <Rubidium> so if you can't be bothered to make a release branch, just tag some relatively stable svn version on a bi-monthly basis 23:41:45 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:42:28 <Rubidium> as the current method of "releasing" means that people who do not intimately know how stable it roughly is will randomly pick something and give that to users 23:42:42 <Rubidium> or just stay with the last released (ancient) versions 23:42:45 <OwenS> At the very least tag a couple of weeks before a Ubuntu release goes final :p 23:42:51 <theholyduck> Rubidium, well the problem with that approach, 23:42:59 <OwenS> That provides a) A regular schedule b) Gets the package out 23:43:03 <theholyduck> Rubidium, is that generally, the moment anyone comes having problems 23:43:11 <theholyduck> its either fixed in the latest svn 23:43:20 <theholyduck> or atleast, needs to be tested in it 23:43:36 <theholyduck> and ubuntu users use the same packages for half a year ++ 23:43:47 <Rubidium> OwenS: better a couple of weeks after the Ubuntu release so it actually has the time to propagate from Debian to Ubuntu and such 23:44:01 <OwenS> 6 months?! :p 23:44:12 <theholyduck> OwenS, 6 months is alot in multimedia :p 23:44:20 <theholyduck> especially with some of the newer stuff going on 23:44:24 <theholyduck> 6 months is an eternity 23:44:24 <Rubidium> they close the import quite early 23:44:25 <OwenS> I was kinda hoping that by making "proper" releases Ubuntu would actually pick them up :p 23:44:37 <OwenS> Rather than indirecting through Debian 23:44:38 <theholyduck> OwenS, they might not 23:44:45 <theholyduck> it took them a year to go from 1.0rc1 to 1.0rc2 23:44:49 <theholyduck> after rc2 was released 23:45:01 <theholyduck> ubuntu = SLOW on the uptake 23:45:30 <Rubidium> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule <- about 3 months before 10.04 they stopped importing from Debian 23:45:41 <Rubidium> well, maybe 2.5, but they used Debian testing 23:45:51 <Rubidium> which means another 10 days to migrate from unstable to testing 23:45:53 <OwenS> Rubidium: Its an LTS release 23:46:08 <theholyduck> well, as an example 23:46:11 <Rubidium> with a MASSIVE snafu just days before the release 23:46:14 <theholyduck> in the last 6 months, 23:46:24 <theholyduck> open source multimedia software . 23:46:38 <theholyduck> has gotten weighted p frame support via x264 23:46:46 <theholyduck> giving large bonuses in video compression 23:47:04 <theholyduck> support for end to end latency encoding of a couple of millisecond for streaming applications 23:47:12 <Rubidium> OwenS: Karmic stopped importing 4 months (25-06) before the release (29-10) 23:47:14 <theholyduck> bluray authoring support 23:47:33 <theholyduck> the ability to adapt streaming quality on the fly. 23:47:41 <theholyduck> true vfr encoding 23:47:42 <theholyduck> and so on 23:47:56 <theholyduck> OwenS, 6 months means a whole gigant load of improvements 23:48:10 <theholyduck> updating your multimedia software once a month is allready too little 23:48:12 <OwenS> theholyduck: Sure. But it would be better than we have now 23:48:25 <theholyduck> OwenS, well what we have now is ubuntu running so uselessly outdated 23:48:34 <OwenS> And the mplayer install on my HTPC is 6 months old... 23:48:34 <theholyduck> we just link them to a svn compilation guide and say 23:48:42 <theholyduck> "it works on the svn" 23:48:43 <OwenS> No... 10 months 23:48:57 <theholyduck> if the version is only a couple of months 23:49:02 <theholyduck> instead of a couple of years old 23:49:10 <theholyduck> they might not be incentivized to use a good version 23:49:34 <Rubidium> theholyduck: so basically you're giving people a very good incentive to not use mplayer 23:49:42 <theholyduck> Rubidium, essentially sure. 23:50:00 <theholyduck> but all the other players are slower, support less stuff, have worse demuxers, have no video filters and dubious subtitle renderers 23:50:04 <theholyduck> its mplayer or bust essentially 23:50:17 <OwenS> "dubious subtitle renderers"? Thats a complement to mplayer? 23:50:24 <OwenS> Which doesn't even know how to position SSA subtitles?! 23:50:31 <theholyduck> OwenS, it does now 23:50:36 <theholyduck> libass was patched in the last 6 months 23:50:44 <theholyduck> making it on par with visfilter 23:50:48 <theholyduck> *vsfilter 23:50:58 <theholyduck> as in, reproduces everything as vsfilter does 23:51:05 <theholyduck> all the bugs of vsfilter people abuse aswell 23:51:07 <OwenS> Great. Now I just need to figure out what magic options I need to provide to build mplayer on Solaris... 23:51:15 <theholyduck> and its alot faster than vsfilter aswell 23:51:31 <theholyduck> infact, mplayer now has the best ass renderer around 23:51:41 <theholyduck> since its just as good as the standard, and way faster 23:52:06 <theholyduck> :P 23:52:15 <OwenS> Also: Why is the vobsub renderer making my subtitles transparent? -_- 23:52:21 <theholyduck> OwenS, i think it involves atleast 3 sheep. 23:52:30 <theholyduck> OwenS, mplayer default, i'm not quite sure myself 23:52:34 <theholyduck> you can change it if you want to 23:52:48 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFA542.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:52:54 <theholyduck> its marginally less ugly than gigant yellow vobsubs though 23:53:12 <OwenS> If the vobsubs are yellow... I have some which are green or other colours, and therefore disappear 23:53:36 <theholyduck> theres probably an option to make it obey the orignal flags 23:53:44 <theholyduck> honestly, the mplayer manual is like 8k lines 23:53:50 <theholyduck> i'm not familiar with the vobsub section 23:54:10 <OwenS> I'm not familiar with any of it really. Except for the bits I had to fiddle with to enable vdpau :p 23:54:18 * OwenS hugs 8400GS (And nVIDIA's awesome Solaris drivers) 23:54:44 <theholyduck> the biggest advantage of vdpau over xv 23:54:53 <theholyduck> isnt actually speed of decoding/display 23:55:12 <theholyduck> but the ability to do stuff to the video after hardware scaling 23:55:32 <OwenS> In my case, its actually the ability to decode the video in the first place 23:55:38 <OwenS> My HTPC runs on an Atom ;-) 23:55:45 <theholyduck> with xv you have to render the subtitles before hardware scaling takes effect 23:55:53 <theholyduck> so if your video is dvd res 23:56:09 <theholyduck> and you got a gigant 1080p or beyond monitor 23:56:19 *** ashaw [~alexis@58.108.161.163] has joined #openttd 23:56:21 <theholyduck> even if the subtitles are softsubs, with xv, they'll be blured due to scaling 23:56:22 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.103.88] has quit [Quit: ãããã¿ãªãã] 23:56:30 <OwenS> Heh 23:56:40 <theholyduck> with vdpau, you can scale the video, bring it back, overlay the subtitles 23:56:44 <theholyduck> and send to monitor 23:56:54 <theholyduck> so even if the video is blury 23:56:55 <theholyduck> atleast your subtitles are crystal clear 23:56:57 <OwenS> In my case, some stuff gets scaled up, some down, since my TV is 1360x768 23:57:25 <theholyduck> OwenS, either way, vdpau lets you render subtitles at native res 23:57:27 <theholyduck> xv doesnt 23:57:30 <OwenS> Indeed 23:59:02 <theholyduck> still, 23:59:09 <theholyduck> i'm going to miss xv when its gone 23:59:17 <OwenS> The only issue I have with my Atom HTPC is when idiots encode 720p MPEG-4 ASP... 23:59:27 <theholyduck> its one of the few places of almost 100% compitability with everything 23:59:31 <OwenS> Heh 23:59:37 <theholyduck> on unix 23:59:47 <theholyduck> especially in relation to xorg 23:59:59 <theholyduck> almost every graphic card produced since the middle of the 90's ish