Log for #openttd on 15th July 2010:
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05:56:50  <andythenorth> morning
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06:31:28  * andythenorth dips toe into multiplayer
06:32:02  <andythenorth> hmm
06:32:13  * andythenorth can't join any games
06:32:35  * andythenorth is using a nightly build
06:32:44  <andythenorth> version mismatch :(
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06:58:10  <Terkhen> good morning
07:00:29  <planetmaker> good morning
07:21:37  <SpComb> andythenorth: can't join the wrong games
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08:01:26  <Terkhen> I need a free repository to host a GPL mercurial project (not related at all with OpenTTD); any suggestions?
08:02:22  <SpComb> bitbucket
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08:07:16  <planetmaker> Terkhen: what SpComb says. But it *could* also be on the DevZone, if you like
08:07:26  <planetmaker> we can make some exceptions ;-)
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08:11:00  <Terkhen> planetmaker: thank you, but my project director already thinks that I expend too much time coding other things :P
08:11:14  <Terkhen> I'll give bitbucket a try, it seems nice
08:11:18  <planetmaker> :-P
08:11:22  <Ammler> little fix so it follows the head:
08:11:36  <Ammler> someone able to confirm it working?
08:12:06  <Ammler> it works here with mq
08:12:47  <planetmaker> does it work without? :-)
08:12:56  <Ammler> yep
08:12:59  <planetmaker> and with a simply patched one?
08:13:24  <Ammler> but I am not sure, if I tried all possible situations
08:13:37  <planetmaker> what about, if you try it on a source tar ball (dunno what it shall report there)?
08:13:53  <planetmaker> probably it doesn't change anything... as there's no hg then
08:14:25  * SpComb recalls when the hg version detection still used `hg tip`
08:18:21  <planetmaker> that must be really long ago
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09:23:23  <fjb> Moin.
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10:11:20  <oniik> im using FIRS, the glass works sats it will produce 6t per 8 t delivered, yet from 170t sand it only produced 35 crates of man supplies
10:11:41  <andythenorth> oniik: and 35 crates of goods?
10:11:49  <oniik> does half the sand go to good no matter if i use that?
10:11:55  <oniik> goods*
10:11:57  <andythenorth> @calc 170 * (6/8)
10:11:57  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 127.5
10:12:06  <andythenorth> @calc 127.5/2
10:12:06  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 63.75
10:12:08  <andythenorth> hmm
10:13:15  <andythenorth> oniik: if there are two output cargos, both will always be produced
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10:14:28  <oniik> i see. hard to make a train for man supplies profitable then. unless it is ok that it stands for ever on the station. does that lower the value of them?
10:15:27  <oniik> buitl a small train, but two supplies only gets it to 44% full
10:15:33  <andythenorth> deliver more sand :)
10:15:55  <andythenorth> the 35t output sounds low.  It should be more.  One of us has made a mistake :o
10:16:01  <andythenorth> Could be me
10:16:39  <oniik> has 80 crates in it now, thats after two sand deliveries of 170t while it was waiting at station
10:17:22  <andythenorth> hmm
10:17:28  <Rubidium> so... send andythenorth a savegame :)
10:17:30  <andythenorth> the code looks right,
10:17:54  <Rubidium> so he can check whether you're using an ancient version of FIRS or the in-game behaviour really is incorrect
10:18:02  <oniik> sure i can, if u want
10:18:33  <andythenorth> pm me via the forums
10:19:09  <oniik>
10:19:22  <oniik> dont have an account there
10:20:22  <oniik> need to know what grfs i have?
10:21:19  <andythenorth> nah it's fine
10:21:25  <andythenorth> @calc 175 * (6/8)
10:21:25  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 131.25
10:22:00  <oniik> Togglepool Factory
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10:23:27  <oniik> btw dont laugh at my totally unlucrative setup. ;)
10:23:41  <Rubidium> it gets 45 goods from the station at 71 rating
10:23:47  <Rubidium> @calc 45/.71
10:23:48  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 63.3802816901
10:24:00  <Rubidium> @calc 131/2
10:24:00  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 65.5
10:24:25  <Rubidium> andythenorth: both output cargos get 50% of the 6 produced it seems?
10:24:27  <oniik> what does that?
10:24:52  <oniik> how much is man sup and goods in ton?
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10:26:16  <Rubidium> @calc (274-166)/180
10:26:16  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 0.6
10:26:23  <andythenorth> I get 63 crates produced of each cargo, which is correct
10:26:39  <oniik> ok im bugged then
10:27:15  * andythenorth ponders
10:27:31  <Rubidium> andythenorth: although the crates aren't 1t, but 0.6t
10:27:49  <andythenorth> don't have time to look properly, but either (a) it's fine, and it's just the station rating, or (b) what rubidium just said (took the words out of my mouth)
10:27:53  <oniik> andythenorth: im also getting 63 creaes in the last month thing on the works window. but look in the train
10:28:18  <andythenorth> oniik: what goes in the train is beyond my control :)  FIRS just handles how much is produced
10:28:33  <Rubidium> yes... industry production * station rating -> how much goes to the train
10:28:48  <Rubidium> with 63 and 70% that gives ~45
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10:29:13  <Rubidium> if the station rating is really low, it gets much worse
10:29:27  <Rubidium> and in case multiple stations are competing it gets really complicated who gets how much
10:29:31  <oniik> my rating is 67% and im getting less than 45. and it should be 100% cause there has alwys been a train with space at the station when it gets sand
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10:30:10  <Rubidium> but the rating is 67%, thus you get only 67%
10:30:21  <Rubidium> @calc 73*0.67
10:30:21  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 48.91
10:30:26  <Rubidium> @calc 63*0.67
10:30:26  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 42.21
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10:30:33  <Rubidium> (should type the right numbers)
10:31:29  <oniik> i see i understand it a little better then. i havent really gotten into the rating yet, bu t i can see now how it can be important. so my sand station is only Poor, why is that?
10:31:47  <oniik> should i use 2 smaller trains instead of one full load?
10:32:35  <Rubidium>
10:33:21  <Rubidium> full load is better for rating, multiple trains as well, i.e. there is no time with no waiting train and thus waiting cargo as that reduces the station rating
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11:10:08  <oniik> lot harder to make money in this than in vanilla. got 4 trains on 3 oil wells going to one refinery where i have one train on chems. the wells produce enough to make the trains go nonstop, yet i am maxed on loan and little money trickling in
11:18:25  <planetmaker> oniik, the longer the route the larger the revenue. Maybe your travel distance is just very short
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11:25:23  <oniik> had short, medium and long
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11:42:49  <planetmaker> long = once accross the map
11:45:52  <oniik> yea not that heh
11:46:22  <oniik> 40ish days of travel
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12:45:49  <Belugas> hi in there
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12:46:16  <PeterT> good day, Belugas!
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12:52:58  <PeterT> SmatZ: what was "strange" about MeCool?
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14:36:16  <SmatZ> PeterT: he's joined at several channels, and his only messages are "/me :)" "/me brb"
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14:36:28  <TomyLobo> hi
14:36:28  <SmatZ> also, strange netmask and name
14:36:33  <SmatZ> hello TomyLobo
14:36:35  <PeterT> oh
14:36:41  <TomyLobo> what does "servicing interval in %" mean?
14:36:56  <TomyLobo> does it mean it goes to the shed if it's at x% reliability?
14:36:57  <PeterT> SmatZ: well, his mask is fine, just real name and away message
14:37:00  <Belugas> hahahah!!! nice nickname :D  love it!
14:37:09  <SmatZ> TomyLobo: service is either done after n days, or when reliability reaches n% of max
14:37:13  <Belugas> Tomy Lobo  -> Lobo Tomy
14:37:15  <Belugas> lol
14:37:17  <SmatZ> PeterT: probably, yes :)
14:37:18  <SmatZ> hehe :)
14:37:21  <PeterT> :D
14:37:32  <TomyLobo> Belugas you're the first to find that out on his own, congrats :)
14:37:49  <Belugas> no kidding... really?
14:37:53  <TomyLobo> no kidding
14:38:00  <SmatZ> :D
14:38:18  <Belugas> wow...  you have made a real good job ;)
14:39:15  <TomyLobo> SmatZ so if i set it to 50% it goes after 50 days?
14:39:29  <TomyLobo> isnt that kind of inconsistant? what if i set it to > 100%
14:39:41  <TomyLobo> well days, not %
14:41:15  <SmatZ> TomyLobo: then it will always head to the depot I guess :-p
14:41:26  <SmatZ> it will be 50% of max engine reliability
14:41:34  <SmatZ> eg. that what you see in the Build Vehicle window
14:41:56  <TomyLobo> ah
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15:09:24  * peter1138 ponders a simple embeddable scripting language
15:09:43  <peter1138> and i suppose i could take a look at squirrel...
15:09:54  <SpComb> lua
15:10:00  <peter1138> or that
15:10:04  <SpComb> if you can deal with 1-based array indexes
15:10:08  <peter1138> ew
15:10:15  <PeterT> we don't already have a scripting language?
15:10:26  <peter1138> we?
15:10:35  <PeterT> you don't?
15:10:40  <peter1138> not personally, no
15:10:43  <PeterT> wait, err
15:10:56  <peter1138> i am not talking about openttd
15:10:57  <PeterT> I thought you/we were talking about OpenTTD
15:11:02  <PeterT> ah, okay
15:11:04  <PeterT> good luck! :D
15:11:30  <Wolf01> peter1138: -> falcon programming language
15:11:41  <Wolf01> or such
15:13:03  <Belugas> SQL
15:13:06  <Belugas> buuwhahahahaha!
15:13:24  <peter1138> :s
15:13:48  <ccfreak2k> Lua is as simple as it gets wrt implementation.
15:14:22  <Wolf01> lua is good too
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15:16:48  <peter1138> hmm, one lua_State per script file, right?
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15:18:23  <peter1138> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA You say I must be crazy
15:18:31  <peter1138> Cos I don't care, who I hit, who I hit
15:19:51  <Belugas> :)
15:20:12  <Belugas> I can still feel you, even so far away
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15:20:55  <peter1138> Damn you Peter Gabriel
15:21:09  <BCMM> when the wiki says "Town growth can be accelerated by loading and unloading at least one item of cargo at five stations within town influence within a two month period", does it mean stations with catchments covering the town, or stations within that town's local authority?
15:21:17  <peter1138> Cuddling porcupines indeed
15:21:19  <BCMM> and, more generally, how can i encourage a town to grow?
15:22:57  <Wolf01> by placing 5 or more stations into it and transport cargo
15:22:59  <Belugas> well...both of your statements?
15:23:27  <Belugas> **accepted cargo**
15:24:51  <BCMM> Belugas: so it has to have town buildings in its catchment, not just be within the local authority of that town?
15:25:55  <Belugas> indeed
15:26:17  <Belugas> it's the buildings that are requiring and accpeting and generatuing cargos
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15:46:28  <TomyLobo> do "non stop" orders prevent servicing?
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15:47:17  <ccfreak2k> I think it just means they don't stop at stations that they're forced to go through.
15:47:29  <TomyLobo> i hope that too ^^
15:47:55  <TomyLobo> but it would explain why my trains to go to the depot at 0%...
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15:53:35  <Wolf01> my trains don't go to depot until I tell them manually or give them the go to nearest depot order... and I have breakdowns enabled and the service time set to 80%
15:53:57  <TomyLobo> yeah same issue here
15:54:10  <Wolf01> also I used to use "go non-stop" orders, now I don't use them, but nothing seem to be changed
15:54:40  <TomyLobo> when sorting by reliability, i almost get the list sorted by train number instead since all of them are at 0%...
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16:00:55  <Wolf01> try using some conditional orders based on reliability or put "go to nearest depot" every time they load/unload
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16:52:43  <fjb> A train only searches for a depot when it passes a signal. And the depot has to be reachable with in 20 (or less, don't know at the moment) tiles.
16:55:08  <glx> better use "service at" order
16:55:11  <Rubidium> fjb: signals have nothing to do with when it (automatically) searches for (near) depots
16:55:21  <Rubidium> and it's 20 straight tiles worth of penalties
16:55:34  <Rubidium> or whatever you changed the appropriate setting to
16:55:37  <glx> not once the path is reserved IIRC
16:56:17  <Rubidium> it just starts searching at the end of the reserved path
16:56:42  <glx> which is usually a signal ;)
16:58:03  <VVG> A thought crossed my mind and i tested it ingame. Am i right, that depot have some kind of a PBS entry signal built in?
16:59:16  *** Immow [] has joined #openttd
16:59:23  <Immow> hi all :)
16:59:54  *** Samu [] has joined #openttd
17:00:06  <Samu> hey
17:00:08  <Immow> question: is there a limit of the amount of stations (heliports) I can use on one factory, does the factory supply them all with goods?
17:00:42  <Immow> we are playing a game with cargo destinations so I tried something new :)
17:01:11  <Samu> I think there's no limit if you use town noise control and the factory is far away... hmm
17:01:18  <planetmaker> Immow: two stations only will get cargo
17:01:36  <Immow> <-- it seems to work on more
17:02:05  <Rubidium> probably because of changing station ratings
17:02:09  <Immow> but 2 of the heliports don't seem to recieve goods for a while now :)
17:02:09  *** Chris_Booth [] has joined #openttd
17:02:11  <planetmaker> which two that are may change
17:02:20  <planetmaker> as station rating may change
17:02:27  <Samu> hey, I didn't receive any email from hyronimus yet
17:02:36  <Samu> should I contact the forum admin?
17:02:44  <Immow> changeing station ratings?
17:02:54  *** amateja [] has joined #openttd
17:03:54  <welshdragon> Samu: orudge is very busy right now
17:04:31  <Samu> orudge_roaming?
17:04:53  <orudge> what what?
17:05:10  <orudge> and wht were you contacting Hyronymus about?
17:05:31  <Samu> about my account, I want to come back
17:05:54  *** heffer [] has joined #openttd
17:05:59  <amateja> Hi, does anybody know about subsidiaries feature? I've found out that MiniIN had had it, but now it's gone.
17:06:45  <Rubidium> it's still in MiniIN
17:07:04  <orudge> Samu: ah, right
17:07:05  <orudge> well
17:07:10  <planetmaker> :-)
17:07:10  <Samu> it's going to be my 3rd chance if I come back
17:07:24  <orudge> send me an e-mail, so I can verify your e-mail address and that you are actually you
17:07:33  <orudge> forums at
17:07:34  <Samu> ok
17:07:42  <amateja> Rubidium: but well, I can't find it on download page
17:08:04  <Rubidium> amateja: because it's someone's custom patched build of OpenTTD, not something officially supported by the developers
17:08:16  *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@] has joined #openttd
17:08:30  <fjb> ... and a little bit outdated...
17:08:59  <PeterT> Samu: you were the one who made a huge fuss over trying to get yourself banned?
17:09:04  <planetmaker> fjb: but only VERY little :-P
17:09:15  <planetmaker> like... 3 years?
17:09:18  <Rubidium> all those superb and well tested features
17:09:26  <amateja> I know that, nevertheless it's awsome :)
17:09:26  <__ln__> according to debian's policy: the more outdated, the more stable
17:09:49  <planetmaker> amateja: then you haven't played recent OpenTTD
17:09:56  * fjb thinks about selling a new game with a long feature list.
17:10:07  <Rubidium> planetmaker: more like 4 years given the total lack of development in the last like half year of MiniIN
17:10:30  <planetmaker> fjb: isn't that the usual case? List zillions of features and then only bug-fix 90% of them as they didn't quite work as advertised?
17:10:48  <amateja> planetmaker: I have, 1.0.0RC3 if I remember well
17:10:53  <planetmaker> Rubidium: :-) In any case before my active time ;-)
17:11:07  <Samu> ok email is sent
17:11:14  <fjb> planetmaker: Why care for fixing bugs once I have the money?
17:11:29  <planetmaker> amateja: right... then you might want to update a bit... you know. Bug fixes :-)
17:11:38  <planetmaker> fjb: true and fair enough
17:11:47  <planetmaker> Shall they bitch around, not your problem then ;-)
17:11:54  <planetmaker> Unless you want to continue to rip them off
17:11:58  <Samu> Yes Peter
17:12:03  <amateja> all I want to say, this whole bunch of new features in 1.0.X is great, but there's still missing this tiny little detail with subsidiaries
17:12:09  <planetmaker> And sell the 2nd bug fix not as a bug fix but as an extension by promising another feature
17:12:16  <fjb> planetmaker: I will make a new game with an even longer feature list then.
17:12:40  <planetmaker> branding is expensive. Just sell add-ons. For 80% of the price of the original
17:12:48  <Rubidium> amateja: subsidiaries is flawed w.r.t. moving cargo between companies
17:13:24  <fjb> planetmaker: Same game title with an added number.
17:13:38  <planetmaker> yes, that works just as well
17:13:51  <planetmaker> but then you need to charge 110% of the original price ;-)
17:13:54  <planetmaker> "need" :-P
17:14:18  <fjb> planetmaker: Of course...
17:14:43  <Samu> does openttd run better on a AMD processor than Intel?
17:14:43  <amateja> Rubidium: so I shouldn't expect this feature or similar to be included in trunk?
17:14:59  * fjb thinks about buying an android...
17:15:05  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20154 /trunk/projects/ (generate_vs80.vcproj generate_vs90.vcproj): -Fix: A missing entry caused MSVC to modify generate_vs*.vcproj all the time.
17:15:18  *** Fuco [~dota.keys@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:15:30  <fjb> Everything runs better on AMD. Or was it the other way round?
17:15:42  <Rubidium> amateja: not until that issue is fixed
17:16:16  <Rubidium> and given none of the official developers care about subsidiaries that much that they write it from scratch, the chance it's going to happen soon is quite small
17:16:37  <Samu> fjb, which sould be faster? Athlon 1800 or Pentium 2400?
17:16:58  <Samu> video cards are
17:17:10  * fjb doesn't know about a Pentium 2400.
17:17:13  <Samu> geforce 5200 for the pentium and radeon 9200
17:17:18  <Samu> for the amd
17:17:27  <Samu> :(
17:18:11  <fjb> Bith graphics cards have a dumb buffer, so they should be good enough.
17:18:13  <planetmaker> it doesn't run on EarthSimulator, though :-(
17:18:39  <Samu> when I turn off OpenTTD animations, fast forwarding goes really fast!
17:18:47  <Samu> if it's on, it's slow
17:18:54  <Samu> really, a big difference
17:18:59  <fjb> Fastest Pentium was 233 MHz any way.
17:19:20  <Samu> it's about 5x faster
17:19:46  <Rubidium> Samu: whatever Compaq uses "simply works better"
17:20:07  <Samu> It's a Pentium IV 2400
17:21:00  <amateja> Rubidium: thanks a lot for explanation, probably adding some milestones on wiki for 1.1.0 version would satisfy interlopers like me :)
17:21:57  <Rubidium> milestones only leads to unsatisfied people and developers having to explain that they simply didn't have the time to add those "promised" features
17:22:51  <planetmaker> hm... probably it'd be quite nice on a SX-9 ;-)
17:23:05  <planetmaker> though it'd be better if it scaled to multiple cores ;-)
17:23:37  <amateja> oh, ok - so I'll focus on translating openttd to help you as much as I can
17:23:50  <Samu> I have a nice feature request, not sure if you like it. Loan money with a simple left click or right click on your money display.
17:24:06  <Samu> left click - repay
17:24:12  <Samu> right click - loan
17:24:20  <amateja> got to go
17:24:28  * amateja says be to everyone
17:24:38  <Samu> be
17:24:46  *** amateja [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
17:25:24  <PeterT> Samu: why?
17:25:57  <Samu> it's just so I don't have to open the finance screen
17:27:21  <Samu> or maybe, change the current method a bit. Left clicking your money opens the finance window.
17:27:32  <Samu> change it to open the small version of it
17:27:45  <perk11> Hi all, I have a question about translation. What do you think, should I translate vehicle names (as soon as they are fictional)?
17:28:03  <planetmaker> perk11: your choice
17:28:13  <planetmaker> but in general I'd not translate names
17:28:28  <planetmaker> it makes cross-language references of vehicles difficult
17:28:56  <planetmaker> even though it'd be nice to have translations of speaking names
17:29:06  *** PeterT [] has quit [Quit: Goodbye]
17:29:18  <planetmaker> But already with station names it gets funny, if you have different ones than another play