Log for #openttd on 2nd September 2010:
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00:51:19  <nicfer> anyone that plays with FIRS here?
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06:25:48  <planetmaker> good morning
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07:06:33  <dihedral> morning
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07:18:32  <dihedral> orudge, ping
07:19:46  <planetmaker> at 1am?
07:20:00  <dihedral> what? where is he?
07:20:07  <planetmaker> Mineapolis
07:20:13  <planetmaker> according to his tt-forums account
07:20:21  <dihedral> ops :-P
07:20:26  <dihedral> i thought he used to be uk
07:20:32  <planetmaker> *used to*
07:20:42  <dihedral> /o\
07:20:48  <dihedral> ops
07:21:18  <dihedral> what a pitty :-P
07:21:19  <planetmaker> but maybe you're lucky and he's back ;-)
07:21:25  <dihedral> :-P
07:24:46  <Eddi|zuHause> "microsoft patents operating system shutdown"
07:25:09  <dihedral> lol
07:25:17  <dihedral> only USA
07:25:36  <dihedral> they may have the patent but they were not the first to have a operating system shutdown :-P
07:25:50  * dihedral recalls dos times vs. linux (at the same time)
07:25:51  <Rubidium> oh, you haven't read the "good" news yet :)
07:26:13  <Rubidium> patent trolls trolling companies that still print patent numbers on their stuff that have expired
07:26:30  <dihedral> ...
07:26:45  * Rubidium wonders whether that applies to second hand stuff as well
07:27:51  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- sounds like they are talking about the gui interactions
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07:36:26  <planetmaker> lol
07:38:40  <peter1138> silly american laws
07:38:44  <peter1138> "anyone can file"...
07:40:02  <peter1138> "We decided what companies were doing was wrong, so we filed a lawsuit," Mr. Tompkins says.
07:40:05  <peter1138> "We decided what companies were doing was wrong, so we filed a lawsuit," Mr. Tompkins says.
07:40:08  <peter1138> ooops
07:40:31  <peter1138> no, you decided you'd like to cash in stupid rules
07:41:36  <dihedral> well, that shutdown procedure looks very windowsish
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08:14:21  <Terkhen> good morning
08:14:57  <planetmaker> moin Terkhen
08:15:09  <SmatZ> hello Terkhen
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08:51:44  <planetmaker> hmpf.... someone spammed the OpenGFX thread by a blunt copy of the first posting... placing his links in the signature. Bloody spammers
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12:37:53  <orudge> dihedral, belated pong
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12:40:11  <dihedral> orudge, plans for a mobile optimized phpbb theme / template?
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12:40:23  <orudge> dihedral: not at this stage
12:40:34  <dihedral> which 'this stage'?
12:40:35  <orudge> if somebody comes up with one, then I may perhaps implement it
12:40:38  <orudge> well
12:40:43  <orudge> there are no plans at the moment
12:40:57  <dihedral> send me the current openttd themes :-)
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12:46:50  <dihedral> orudge, which version of phpbb are you running?
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12:48:45  <planetmaker> lol: suggestion in the German DBset thread: rise the running costs of an ICE after a break-down by 2.7 million € (break down cause: faulty air conditioning :-P )
12:49:18  <Sacro> fsdsd
12:53:11  <dihedral> :-D
12:53:14  <glx> dihedral: look at the bottom of the pages IIRC
12:54:04  <dihedral> that's what i thought too, hence i asked
12:54:18  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: that only tells the "copyright year", not the version
12:55:07  <Eddi|zuHause> " Debt Help | Loans | Golf Club | Breast Enlargement " <-- very interesting...
12:55:40  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, tries to give you adds that might /interest/ you :-P
12:56:31  <glx> ha right, on some forums the version is displayed there
12:56:34  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: but they also complement each other so well ;)
12:56:49  <dihedral> :-P
12:58:21  <glx> "Debt Help | Debt Help | Loans | Compare Mortgages | Breast Enlargement"   <-- I don't have the golf ;)
12:59:07  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: it changes every time ;)
12:59:43  <Eddi|zuHause> "BP: wir tanken auch ihren Golf voll"
13:01:04  <planetmaker> :-D
13:01:42  <planetmaker> I still believe that ships with a kinda ramscoop would be quite cheap to run on todays oceans ;-)
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13:20:02  <Belugas> hello
13:20:42  <ln-> ÿßh
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13:21:56  <peter1138> ÿßh?
13:22:34  <ln-> ÿße
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14:16:11  <erle-> is the distributed version of openttd capable of 32 bit graphics?
14:16:29  <Yexo> yes
14:16:47  <Yexo> but that does not mean it also supports extra zoom levels or the graphics needed for that
14:17:45  <erle-> opengfx is 8 bit, isn't it?
14:17:56  <Yexo> yes
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14:21:17  <erle-> i guess there is a lot of work to do with 32bit graphics
14:21:38  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is, nobody seems to be coordinating the work that is actually done...
14:21:50  <planetmaker> they voted for a coordinator ;-)
14:21:57  <erle-> yes
14:22:04  <Eddi|zuHause> in a totally unrelated news:
14:22:09  <erle-> i have seen a lot of screenshots and talk in the forums
14:22:44  <erle-> but nobody seems to make a package
14:23:48  <planetmaker> there are packages
14:23:56  <planetmaker> But most are extra-zoom
14:24:23  <planetmaker> GT, probably knows the links ^
14:24:56  <erle-> i'd like extra-zoom :D
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14:25:06  <erle-> maybe i should tinker a little
14:25:21  <Eddi|zuHause> erle-: the extra-zoom is not supported by openttd
14:25:42  <Eddi|zuHause> erle-: and the extra-zoom packages are made incompatible
14:25:43  <planetmaker> which is IMHO a design-error. It should be downward compatible
14:26:13  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it is
14:26:13  <erle-> but they have their own fork for extra zoom, i thought
14:26:20  <planetmaker> they do.
14:26:43  <GT> they're not imcompatible
14:26:59  <planetmaker> GT, can I use a 32bpp-ez sprite packet meanwhile?
14:27:09  <erle-> it looks like windows only, too
14:27:15  <planetmaker> no
14:27:27  <GT> I work on Gentoo, and there it works
14:27:38  <Br33z4hSlut5> are there 32bpp graphics available via bananas?
14:27:45  <GT> nope
14:27:52  <planetmaker> GT, so any 32bpp graphics package I download, whether with EZ graphics or not will work in trunk?
14:27:56  <Eddi|zuHause> Br33z4hSlut5: no, as no reasonably complete set is available yet.
14:29:13  <GT> the ones on jupix nightly server are compatible with ogfxe and default graphics, with or without ez, but it is unfortunately not a very complete set by far
14:29:36  <erle-> bananas? is that the name of the content download system
14:29:37  <erle-> ?
14:29:44  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
14:29:44  <GT> yes
14:29:52  <planetmaker> that's good news. I thought they were incompatible, if they contained ez sprites
14:29:54  <planetmaker> :-)
14:30:27  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: afaik they need each sprite in a normal and an extra-zoom version in the .tar
14:30:45  <Eddi|zuHause> so it should be a matter of packaging properly
14:31:03  <erle-> its a little unfortunate, that you can download the opengfx via bananas, but you have to get a graphics set before you come to that point
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14:31:09  <planetmaker> well, that's perfectly fine, Eddi|zuHause :-)
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14:31:26  <Eddi|zuHause> erle-: on windows, the installer can do that, and on linux the package manager should do that.
14:31:38  <planetmaker> erle-, all usual installers allow you to install one somewhat automatically along with the game
14:31:38  <erle-> i downloaded it manually
14:32:03  <erle-> you have to get the most recent version of the game anyway, so everything but gentoo sucks :D
14:32:03  <GT> eddi, and packaging properly is what is done in the tars on the jupix nighly package
14:32:30  <planetmaker> erle-, getoo definitely has not the "most recent version" :-)
14:32:33  <dihedral> mem leaks in perl \o/
14:33:03  <erle-> ubuntu has 1.0.0 now
14:33:15  <planetmaker> which is way outdated
14:33:25  <erle-> that's what i was saying
14:33:28  <dihedral> who installes openttd via package manager?
14:33:29  <GT> in fact, gentoo sucks pretty hard with respect to openttd and emerge, I always compile from source
14:33:36  <planetmaker> what does gentoo have?
14:33:36  <erle-> dihedral, that's what i was saying
14:34:07  <dihedral> erle-, no, you were saying that anything but <your favoured dist> sucks
14:34:24  <dihedral> which is a start for flame wars, which is not the nicest thing to do in a channel
14:34:25  <erle-> dihedral, no, ubuntu ist my favorite dist - i said my favorite dist sucks
14:34:26  <planetmaker> ^ :-D
14:34:47  <Eddi|zuHause> GT: honestly, i don't know these packages. i only know that several people came here recently saying "i installed 32bpp pack, and only the menu buttons changed"
14:34:49  <planetmaker> erle-, there's at least three 'most recent versions':
14:35:04  <Eddi|zuHause> GT: and always the answer was "get the normal-zoom packages"
14:35:11  * Rubidium where erle's wisdom regarding the packaging of OpenTTD by downstreams comes from
14:35:13  <planetmaker> 1.0.3, 1.0.4-RC1, nightly and then current svn head
14:35:21  <erle-> is said: 1. chicken-egg-problem with opengfx and bananas 2. package manager useless because outdated versions dont help
14:35:45  <planetmaker> erle-, not really. You can use the package manager to install it
14:35:50  <planetmaker> and then update
14:35:55  <dihedral> :-P
14:36:04  <dihedral> ./openttd -D
14:36:25  <dihedral> oh - would not help either would it now
14:36:37  <planetmaker> not at all
14:37:04  <Rubidium> on the 7th of june 2010 Gentoo "stabilised" the first OpenTTD 1.0.x, only 2 months after it was released and more than 1 month after the next version was released (with security critical bugs)
14:37:08  <Eddi|zuHause> erle-: you are free to come up with a cross-platform GUI that allows accessing bananas without a graphics pack (which includes the font) present
14:37:12  <planetmaker> The only idea would be to ship openttd with something like NoGFX but a few letters
14:37:17  <erle-> where i wanted to get: why not include opengfx/sfx into the precompiled packages distributed via the website?
14:37:28  <planetmaker> erle-, 2.5 times the size?
14:37:41  <Rubidium> 0.7.5 was, after almost 6 months not yet stabilised by Gentoo even though it had a security bug
14:37:44  <planetmaker> yes, not much for your single download
14:37:44  <erle-> but the people download it anyway
14:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause> erle-: because that triples the bandwidth used
14:37:55  <dihedral> why not download the latest package iff no other gfx package is available
14:37:57  <Eddi|zuHause> erle-: people who update don't need it
14:37:59  <planetmaker> erle-, definitely not
14:38:18  <planetmaker> We see so often people playing with outdated base sets, that it is quite clear that people don't update
14:38:24  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: accessing the internet without being asked is... impolite
14:38:24  <dihedral> but then openttd -c /<something> would be a bugger
14:38:25  <planetmaker> If they update, they update the client
14:38:36  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, command line prompt
14:38:48  <dihedral> flag
14:38:49  <planetmaker> dihedral, on windoze?
14:38:51  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: doesn't help with people who start it from gui
14:38:56  <Rubidium> now... Debian, (svn-)praised for it's sluggishness, released a fixed version within one month (and that was because it had to go outside of the security "channel" due to their version not being "free" enough yet)
14:39:00  <Eddi|zuHause> which is 99.99% of the people
14:39:05  <planetmaker> ^
14:39:55  <dihedral> nogfx :-P
14:39:59  <Rubidium> Ubuntu 10.04, released in April of 2010 did release with OpenTTD 1.0.0, so it did release it to their "long term stable" branch within a month, still considerably faster than Gentoo
14:40:01  <Eddi|zuHause> hardly anybody outside this channel starts openttd from console...
14:40:12  <erle-> very few people are downloading non-windows versions from website anyway
14:40:31  <Rubidium> erle-: define "very few"
14:40:33  <erle-> most unix people use package management because they don't care about version but about clean install
14:40:37  <dihedral> erle-, you read the stats?
14:40:52  <erle-> are there any available?
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14:40:56  <dihedral> erle-, what are you basing your assumptions on?
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14:41:22  <erle-> most people use windows - most unices have package managements - thats well known facts
14:41:30  <erle-> the rest was just guesses with that basis
14:41:42  <peter1138> erle-, possibly different with games with online play where a specific version is needed
14:41:45  * Rubidium wonders whether 400.000 out of 1.700.000 is considered "very few"
14:41:47  <dihedral> but bad guesses i'd say
14:41:55  <ln-> ÿße
14:42:01  <peter1138> and we have stats of downloads, but no stats of who installed distro packages
14:42:25  <erle-> Rubidium, is that unix-version downloads from website?
14:42:30  <dihedral> erle-, and what is with those who compile themselvs, who merely need svn up or git pull
14:42:42  <Rubidium> erle-: no, all non win32/win64/win9x downloads
14:42:55  <erle-> dihedral, their management will take care of the grfs
14:42:58  <Rubidium> so there're some OS2/MorphOS downloads in there as well
14:43:12  <dihedral> erle-, yet a again a bs assumption
14:43:34  <erle-> i didn't want to start such a big discussion
14:43:42  <erle-> i just thought it would be worth mentioning
14:43:51  <erle-> i think it's okay as it is
14:43:53  <Rubidium> then refrain from making unfounded statements
14:43:53  <dihedral> you are mentioning incorrect data
14:44:11  <Rubidium> (or easily disproven statements)
14:44:13  * Eddi|zuHause supposes that "well known" and "well tested" are equally conclusive ;)
14:44:14  <erle-> no, i was just mentioning that there is a chicken-egg-problem
14:44:21  <Belugas> in other words: never assume, you make an ass of you and me
14:44:35  <dihedral> :-P
14:44:50  <erle-> bananas downloads opengfx, but opengfx is required for bananas - if thats my only point there is nothing to disagree
14:44:54  <dihedral> erle-, you did not stick to what you wanted to communicate
14:45:05  <erle-> yes
14:45:10  <dihedral> and drifted into another topci you had no proof of what you were stating
14:45:11  <erle-> you can blame me for talking too much
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14:45:38  <Belugas> ho... silence... i await your kingdom!!
14:45:46  <Belugas> let my boss be silent for a while :)
14:45:49  <dihedral> :-P
14:46:09  <dihedral> erle-, not talking too much, just talking nonsense
14:46:39  <erle-> i have really never thought that the download numbers are that high
14:46:48  <planetmaker> :-)
14:46:53  <planetmaker> They steadily increase
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14:46:54  <erle-> for non-windows
14:47:31  <planetmaker> erle-, it's easy to install locally. And an indication that package managers indeed do not well keep up to date
14:47:44  <planetmaker> One reason is that servers quickly pickup the latest stable version
14:47:51  <planetmaker> And then players playing online need it, too
14:48:12  <planetmaker> So.... they'll either need to download it (easy) or compile themselves (difficulty subject to individual judgement)
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14:48:47  <ccfreak2k> _chess_ maintains the slackbuild for openttd. :)
14:48:50  <planetmaker> given what people download in our server's channel: most is of course windoze, but there's also frequently linux asked for
14:50:43  <ABCRic> hmm...
14:51:22  <ABCRic> Is there any chance my savegames become corrupted some way if I compile OpenTTD myself? :P
14:52:13  <ccfreak2k> Doubtful, unless you checked out code from a random svn revision.
14:52:21  <ABCRic> I guess I could start building a nightly myself instead of downloading every 1/2 days...
14:52:22  <Rubidium> ABCRic: yes, roughly similar to when you don't compile them yourself... but that's not your question
14:52:50  <planetmaker> ABCRic, you'll cause more traffic that way :-)
14:53:12  * Rubidium wonders whether anyone has a clue what means
14:53:15  <ABCRic> what way? if I download the nightly package?
14:53:23  <planetmaker> nope, downloading sources
14:53:31  <Eddi|zuHause> you could be compiling in a screwed up version of zlib, that'll cause havoc on the savegames ;)
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14:54:26  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: is that the statistics for bananas accesses?
14:54:29  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: actually, the screwed up version of zlib didn't harm the savegames much
14:54:32  <ABCRic> I already have trunk checkedout, so if I only update the code everyday instead of downloading the entire package, the traffic would be less, no?
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14:54:44  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: close :)
14:55:29  <Rubidium> it's the number of "where can I get this list of bananas items"-requests done over HTTP
14:56:07  <Eddi|zuHause> g3e9d8838M-cargodist <-- that sounds old
14:56:07  <planetmaker> ABCRic, maybe, yeah
14:56:19  <ABCRic> updating the code once a day would be just a few kBs, while the nightly is a few MBs...
14:56:37  <Eddi|zuHause> r20009M 联机䞓甚 <-- that is a cool version string ;)
14:56:44  <OwenS> Some of us, of course, have no choice but to compile (Unsupported platforms ;))
14:56:55  <Rubidium> and it's over the last ~52 days
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14:57:15  <ABCRic> Of course, using the AutoUpdater is a lot more convenient, so I gotta make or get a script/batch file/something that can do it...
14:57:41  <Rubidium> OwenS: is it supported by VirtualBox's guest tools?
14:57:47  <planetmaker> wow. That's a lot of clients :-)
14:58:02  <OwenS> Rubidium: OS X :P
14:58:04  <planetmaker> but each time I accessed it is counted individually, right?
14:58:05  <ABCRic> I know the SVN command line update part, but I need the compile part.
14:58:14  <OwenS> Speaking of OS X... I should look at what bugs I can repro
14:58:18  <Rubidium> ah, in that case... it's more or less a "no"
14:58:24  <planetmaker> ABCRic, get mercurial instead of svn :-)
14:58:49  <planetmaker> OwenS, please do :-)
14:58:55  <planetmaker> And... produce fixes :-)
14:58:55  <ABCRic> But SVN is so convenient...
14:59:05  <planetmaker> ABCRic, hg is more convenient actually
14:59:10  <ABCRic> It is?
14:59:10  <OwenS> planetmaker: Also, add a trackpad mouse mode..
14:59:22  <planetmaker> ABCRic, use tortoiseHG
14:59:26  <OwenS> I keep going to scroll and end up zooming :P
14:59:41  <Rubidium> planetmaker: lies... it doesn't support disallowing committing if you don't have access rights on the remote repository
14:59:42  <planetmaker> OwenS, there's one such patch already. Somewhere
14:59:54  <planetmaker> haha @ Rubidium
15:00:02  <planetmaker> but it gives people the feeling to be allowed to :-P
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15:01:26  <ABCRic> In any case, how can I make something that'll update the source and compile automatically? I'm too lazy to do that manually :P
15:01:50  <planetmaker> use autostart
15:02:15  <planetmaker>
15:02:59  <planetmaker> hm... does svn and hg in the same dir actually work smoothly?
15:03:24  <ABCRic> "The scripts supports all plattforms which have a bash shell. (Linux/OSX/FreeBSD etc.)" Does that include windows?...
15:03:35  <Ammler> yes
15:03:38  <Ammler> it should
15:04:03  <Rubidium> might not... if you use "#!/bin/bash"
15:04:37  <Ammler> it was tested with cygwin around 3 years ago :-)
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15:05:01  <ABCRic> I got cygwin, so I guess it should work, then
15:05:09  <Rubidium> oh, that I don't know. I know that (some versions of) MinGW don't have /bin/bash but only /bin/sh
15:05:23  <Ammler> I wouldn't bet on it, but feel free to report issue, if not. :-)
15:05:36  <Rubidium> (which is the primary reason why configure is a sh script and not bash)
15:07:27  <ABCRic> meh.
15:07:47  <ABCRic> Any way I can use the MSVC command prompt to compile OpenTTD?
15:08:41  <glx> msbuild can do it IIRC
15:08:57  <glx> if you give it the .sln
15:09:09  <Rubidium> MSVC has a command prompt? Or do you mean start everything from the command prompt?
15:09:17  <Rubidium> if it's the latter, then it's quite easy
15:09:41  <ABCRic> I don't know, whatever's simpler...
15:09:57  <OwenS> Rubidium: vcvars.bat
15:10:01  <Rubidium> "c:\program files\microsoft visual studio 9.0\common7\ide\devenv" %1 /build "%2|%3"
15:10:33  <ABCRic> ...
15:10:40  <glx> msbuild projects\openttd_XXX.sln
15:10:42  <Rubidium> parameters openttd_vs90.sln Release architecture
15:10:53  <ABCRic> total command line ignorant here...
15:11:07  <OwenS> ABCRic: Why not just open the solution file?
15:11:13  <Rubidium> e.g. openttd_vs90.sln Release|x64
15:11:57  <ABCRic> OwenS: because I want a shortcut that automatically updates my svn checkout and compiles the source.
15:12:05  <ABCRic> because I'm lazy.
15:12:20  <Rubidium> ABCRic: then use my line. It will compile the source
15:12:49  <Rubidium> or at least, I've seen that code for some reason or another spit our Windows binaries for about 2 years now
15:13:57  <ABCRic> And if I want to compile for x86?
15:14:05  <ABCRic> WIN32, right?
15:14:10  <Rubidium> Win32
15:15:31  <ABCRic> wait, there is no "devenv".
15:15:45  <glx> what MSVC version ?
15:16:11  <ABCRic> 9.0
15:16:17  <Rubidium> then there must be one
15:16:35  <Rubidium> as that's what you see when you start MSVC
15:17:17  <ABCRic> nope, no results for devenv on \Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0.
15:17:34  <ABCRic> wait... it is?
15:17:39  <Rubidium> then MSVC doesn't start
15:17:47  <Rubidium> and you'll have to reinstall it
15:17:58  <ABCRic> ...
15:18:24  <glx> hmm msbuild doesn't work in 2008 command prompt, but it works great in 2010
15:18:25  <Rubidium> oh, did I ever mention that I thoroughly dislike Windows' search capabilities?
15:19:34  <planetmaker> at least one minute ago, you did ;-)
15:19:37  <OwenS> Rubidium: They could definitely learn things from their competitors there
15:19:44  <Eddi|zuHause> what's there to dislike about a page that displays a puppy that barks periodically, even in the background?
15:19:52  <ABCRic> But MSVC does start.
15:19:58  <ABCRic> And it's VCExpress.exe
15:20:05  <ABCRic> er...
15:20:13  <ABCRic> did I have to mention it was Express edition?
15:20:15  <ABCRic> :P
15:20:15  <Eddi|zuHause> the windows search is at least equally as helpful as the windows help :p
15:20:20  <planetmaker> ABCRic, if you rather want to support your lazyness, you're better off using AutoTTD or AutoUpdate
15:20:24  <Rubidium> hmm... that might be your "problem". Might very well be that Express doesn't do commandline :)
15:20:46  <planetmaker> they don't compile, but give you the latest one
15:21:12  <ABCRic> I already use AutoUpdate, just wanted to change to something less traffic-y...
15:21:32  <ABCRic> So you can save 0.00001€/month :)
15:21:51  * planetmaker has flatrate...
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15:22:01  <Rubidium> as well
15:22:09  <planetmaker> Rubidium, unlimited traffic, really?
15:22:11  <planetmaker> :-D
15:22:21  <Rubidium> planetmaker: unlimited up to 2 TiB/month
15:22:26  <planetmaker> :-)
15:22:33  <planetmaker> so... limited ;-)
15:22:35  <Rubidium> and it's bandwidth levels are back to what they used to be a year ago
15:22:51  <planetmaker> thanks to mirrors I assume, right?
15:22:58  <Rubidium> i.e. ~400 GiB per month (excluding the mirrors ofcourse)
15:23:13  <planetmaker> they were introduced when? April?
15:23:18  <planetmaker> Or earlier this year?
15:23:49  <Rubidium> they actually existed already last year, but due to time constraints nobody wrong something to use them
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15:24:32  <Rubidium> and when I saw it going wrong I wrote a very efficient piece of code... yay php + Random()... for determining what mirror to use
15:24:45  <Rubidium> that was very early January
15:25:20  <Rubidium> (second of january IIRC)
15:25:53  <Rubidium> after that TB thought my code was nasty and wrote a real balancer
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15:26:25  <Rubidium> while we thought about balancing bananas and eventually came up with the http download stuff
15:26:34  <Rubidium> with fallback to the original protocol
15:27:22  <Rubidium> oh gosh...
15:27:27  * Rubidium starts to sound "old"
15:29:32  <peter1138> :)
15:29:50  <peter1138> i totally missed the proprietory -> http transition
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15:30:55  <planetmaker> he, ok... so really only start of the year :-)
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15:31:57  <planetmaker> @calc 100*30*86400
15:31:57  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 259200000
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15:32:48  <ABCRic> I think I found out how to compile an .sln with the Express Edition.
15:33:04  <ABCRic> blog here I'm reading says "vcbuild" is equivalent.
15:37:09  <planetmaker> Is it possible for moderators at tt-forums to delete postings in the middle of a thread?
15:37:16  <ABCRic> but there's no vcbuild in MSVC 10, so I'm going to have to apply the modifications to the OTTD 9.0 solution...
15:37:29  <orudge> planetmaker: it is possible, but we don't delete posts unless there's a good reason
15:38:04  <glx> ABCRic: in MSVC 10 there's msbuild
15:38:09  <glx> and it just works
15:39:23  <glx> msbuild projects\openttd_vs100.sln /p:configuration=release /p:platform=win32
15:39:45  <planetmaker> orudge, the latest post in the OpenGFX dev thread is spam...
15:39:54  <planetmaker> but I want to reply to other posts. That's why I'm asking
15:39:54  <ABCRic> trying that now...
15:40:07  <Yexo> planetmaker: that is really no problem
15:40:22  <ABCRic> delete the spam post then reply :P
15:40:22  <planetmaker>
15:40:25  <planetmaker> ok :-)
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15:41:18  <OwenS> planetmaker: Thats interesting spam :P
15:41:26  <orudge> planetmaker: just reply as usual
15:41:36  <orudge> I'll get the spam sorted shortly
15:42:39  <ABCRic> hrm... so is msbuild building somewhere else or ignoring the previous build and build it all again?
15:42:55  <planetmaker> OwenS, the links are spam
15:42:59  <planetmaker> his signature
15:43:03  <OwenS> planetmaker: I noticed
15:43:13  <planetmaker> otherwise it's a 1:1 copy of the thread starting posting
15:43:20  <ABCRic> I had already compiled the solution, so I guess it should do an incremental link...
15:43:26  <planetmaker> thanks, orudge
15:43:28  <ABCRic> But it's building everything again...
15:43:28  <OwenS> planetmaker: First time I've seen a spammer just copy the first post (Wouldn't it be wiser to pick a post in the middle of the thread? :P)
15:44:01  <planetmaker> OwenS, probably. But still... it would be a context failure most probably
15:44:32  <ABCRic> It could have been a sloppy-programmed spambot :P
15:44:36  <OwenS> planetmaker: Most probably, but less likely. I suppose if I wanted to make a "smart spambot" I'd find a post which seemed to be asking a question
15:45:33  <ccfreak2k> >
15:45:33  <ccfreak2k> You are not authorised to read this forum.
15:45:34  <ccfreak2k> :(
15:45:53  <orudge> it's been dealt with
15:46:44  <ABCRic> wait... I'm not authorised to read this forum either...
15:46:51  * planetmaker is happy. Thanks orudge
15:46:52  <ABCRic> what just happened :?
15:46:55  <glx> ABCRic: it will do the same as MSVC
15:46:57  <orudge> just a spammer
15:48:02  <ABCRic> glx: but shouldn't MSVC do an incremental link, e.g., compile the changes, instead recompiling everything?
15:48:10  <ABCRic> *instead of
15:48:12  <glx> only for debug builds
15:48:46  <glx> for releases it always redo a full link
15:48:58  <glx> because it's link time optimisation
15:49:13  <ABCRic> Oh. Guess I need to go and compile some more before asking more questions.
15:50:03  <ABCRic> So now that that's dealt with, I just need to know how to put all this stuff into a batch file and I'm done.
15:50:46  <ABCRic> I guess I'm gonna need some help thought, every batch file I've tried to do until now crashed my computer because of infinite window spawning...
15:53:43  <ABCRic> I have to use svn update <checkout location>, then run the MSVC command prompt, then the command inside the prompt. Right?
15:54:08  <ABCRic> I think msbuild will complain about a missing dll if I run it directly.
15:55:43  <ABCRic> right. experimenting time.
15:56:03  <ABCRic> If I mysteriously quit the channel, I blew my computer.
15:56:25  <Hirundo> Please redirect this information to your twitter account :)
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15:57:43  <OwenS> Hirundo: Nah; this is Facebook stuff. Twitter has better SNR
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16:01:50  <ABCRic> so... would the following work?
16:01:51  <ABCRic> pause
16:01:53  <ABCRic> svn update "C:\SVN\openttd\trunk\projects\openttd_vs100.sln
16:01:55  <ABCRic> pause
16:01:56  <ABCRic> "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 10.0\VC\vcvarsall.bat"
16:01:58  <ABCRic> msbuild "C:\SVN\openttd\trunk\projects\openttd_vs100.sln /p:configuration=release /p:platform=win32
16:01:59  <ABCRic> pause
16:02:07  <planetmaker> ABCRic, try it!
16:02:08  <ln-> ÿßn
16:02:15  <planetmaker> We don't have your system
16:02:17  <planetmaker> But you do
16:02:27  <ABCRic> I would, but I don't want my cpu to burn...
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16:02:37  <ABCRic> Ok, ok, I will.
16:02:41  <planetmaker> if it burns you have a bad CPU which needs replacing anyway
16:03:12  <OwenS> ABCRic: Software generally can't kill your machine
16:03:51  <ABCRic> yeah, but it's not software, it's a batch file made by me. here's quite a difference :P
16:03:57  <ABCRic> *there's
16:04:06  <ABCRic> and it doesn't work. D:
16:04:22  <planetmaker> this spam might blow fuses elsewhere than your cpu fan...
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16:11:18  <glx_> ABCRic: add "call" for vcvarsall.bat line
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16:14:52  <ABCRic> glx: thanks!
16:15:54  <ABCRic> wait, it's complaining the project file does not exist.
16:16:44  <Eddi|zuHause> you are doing it wrong.
16:16:53  <glx> [18:02:03] <ABCRic> msbuild "C:\SVN\openttd\trunk\projects\openttd_vs100.sln /p:configuration=release /p:platform=win32 <-- because you forgot a "
16:17:00  <glx> so it adds it at the end
16:17:44  <ABCRic> thanks again!
16:17:58  <glx> anyway " are not needed if there's no space in path
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16:19:15  <ABCRic> I know, I just put them there so I don't lose myself in the middle of the text.
16:21:09  <ABCRic> it's skipping a pause, but it's working. Thanks again for the help, glx.
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16:23:05  <ccfreak2k> Because 7 8 9!
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16:26:09  <robotboy> gnight
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16:32:20  <avdg> hmm
16:32:51  <avdg> thats cheated :p
16:33:13  <ccfreak2k> No image by this name exists.
16:33:38  <ABCRic> extra g at the end.
16:33:42  <avdg> hmm
16:33:52  * avdg blames irc client
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16:34:51  <avdg> <- correct one, right :)
16:35:01  <ccfreak2k> Interesting designs, but it seems like sometimes you could optimize a junction asymmetrically if you know what the traffic flow is.
16:35:51  <avdg> check the tunnels
16:36:00  <ABCRic> I don't see what's the big deal with crossing tunnels. It's just like if the tracks were crossing at surface level. Of course that OpenTTD doesn't allow for signals on tunnels...
16:36:26  <avdg> well, if a normal user wants to copy this one, it won't work
16:36:32  <ABCRic> But it doesn't check for underground collisions either.
16:36:34  <planetmaker> ABCRic, the deal with it is, that the trains would not crash
16:36:46  <planetmaker> tunnels are wormholes without any reality on the map
16:37:03  <planetmaker> (except their entry and exit)
16:37:26  <ABCRic> No, but even in real life. Tunnels could cross all they want, it's not like trains need to view the section of track ahead.
16:37:27  <avdg> hmm.. forgot to read the rule under the image
16:37:33  <ABCRic> Signals exist for a reason.
16:38:48  <OwenS> ABCRic: The thing is, except for long tunnesl (where reasonably you could descend under/over in the ground), OpenTTD can't realisticly do crossing tunnels
16:38:48  <planetmaker> ABCRic, of course. But it's a cheat as long as trains could drive through each other like ghosts can
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16:39:15  <avdg> ABCRic: try it
16:39:27  <ABCRic> Ooooh. Ghosts. I bet that would be a fun ride for the passengers!
16:39:58  <ABCRic> "Just readin' me paper... OMG is that a train going... *through* me?!"
16:40:23  <avdg> or you can compare tunnels with teleports
16:40:25  <planetmaker> :-D
16:40:36  <avdg> slow teleports trough
16:40:36  <planetmaker> as you can bridges
16:41:23  <planetmaker> avdg, who says that teleporting is fast? Don't you know the 'transporter buffer' where Scotty(?) was saved in for 10 years or so?
16:42:06  <avdg> nope
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16:43:01  <ABCRic> Those are old teleports. The recent ones are instant
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16:43:11  <ABCRic> Unless you count the loading times, of course.
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16:48:37  <ABCRic> I guess there still is something wrong... self-compiled OpenTTD complains about missing language files at startup.
16:49:14  <ccfreak2k> Don't you have to generate the language files or somethin?
16:49:33  <ABCRic> Compiler is supposed to do it.
16:50:03  <ABCRic> And it does. Or at least it says so.
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16:51:29  <avdg> are the language files included in the lang/ directory?
16:52:11  <Yexo> avdg: where does openttd.exe end up? maybe there is still an old version in bin/ and you're starting an old version (with newer language files)
16:52:16  <ABCRic> no. I just compiled it, I didn't make a bundle.
16:52:54  <ABCRic> I compiled it, ran it from objs\win32\release\openttd.exe.
16:53:20  <ABCRic> I'm supposed to run it from there, right?
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16:54:21  <avdg> isn't there a bin/ directory somewhere?
16:54:44  <avdg> donno, I'm running on mac
16:54:59  <ABCRic> yeah, the lang files are there, under \lang.
16:55:36  <Yexo> ABCRic: you should copy that openttd.exe to the bin/ directory and run it from there
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16:55:40  <Yexo> or make a bundle and run from there
16:56:08  <ABCRic> Ok then, guess I'll update my .bat to copy the exe when it's done.
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16:58:49  <glx> use copy /y
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16:59:06  <glx> unless you want to manually confirm the copy
17:00:36  <ABCRic> that's not required. Help says that /Y is used by default if ran from a script.
17:09:43  <DJNekkid> is it a bug or intended that action14 discription cant handle other colors then black?
17:10:08  <planetmaker> they can....
17:10:19  <DJNekkid> then your code dont work :P
17:10:31  <planetmaker> it worked for me
17:10:42  <DJNekkid> hehe
17:10:46  <planetmaker> Or I copied it wrongly :-P
17:11:00  <DJNekkid> wanna build a NuTracks and test?
17:11:06  <planetmaker> yes
17:11:12  <DJNekkid> im testing with r20690
17:11:40  <planetmaker> hm... damn. I just destroyed my mercurial on this computer
17:11:50  <DJNekkid> or wait
17:11:59  <Eddi|zuHause> you da man, man!
17:12:32  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: nvm!
17:12:39  <DJNekkid> i didnt build the last version
17:12:57  * DJNekkid smacks his head into a wall, and then grabs another beer
17:13:15  <planetmaker> cheers!
17:13:29  <DJNekkid> skål :)
17:22:01  <ABCRic> Hmm. What exactly does the whole "powered wagons" thing mean?
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17:24:50  <Eddi|zuHause> ABCRic: if you're not creating a grf, you likely don't want to worry about it...
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17:25:02  <Eddi|zuHause> ABCRic: basically it's a wagon that acts like an engine
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17:26:43  <planetmaker> like for many modern high-speed trains
17:27:11  <ABCRic> It's just that I'm using the US Train set and there this MP-54 engine that looks like and has the same capacity as the passenger coach, but has a stat called Powered wagons.
17:27:37  <ABCRic> (and the rest of the engine stats, of course)
17:27:59  <Eddi|zuHause> ABCRic: means that wagons may add more power...
17:28:13  <ABCRic> actual *normal* wagons?
17:28:29  <ABCRic> As in more power for the same running cost?
17:29:01  <planetmaker> running costs may be set arbitrarily... however the newgrf author decides.
17:29:10  <planetmaker> it may even depend upon the current speed of the consist
17:30:49  <Hirundo> newgrf authors are free to double running costs on (in-game) Wednesdays
17:30:58  <ABCRic> Ah, I see. Buying a matching wagon is like buying the engine again. And it really keeps the same running cost. How convenient!
17:32:04  <ABCRic> I guess that's pretty good. If you increase the capacity, it increases the power as well.
17:32:54  <planetmaker> Hirundo, of course except the Wednesday which is a 13th
17:32:58  <planetmaker> :-P
17:34:43  * Hirundo calls the anti-desync police
17:35:19  <Eddi|zuHause> or when halloween falls on a friday the 13th ;)
17:35:20  <planetmaker> :-) I see no desync in that ;-)
17:35:44  <planetmaker> I see more than a bit of the depths of insanity there, though
17:46:05  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20718 /trunk/src/lang/ (12 files): (log message trimmed)
17:46:05  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:05  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belarusian - 2 changes by KorneySan
17:46:05  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne
17:46:05  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 changes by habell
17:46:07  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by planetmaker
17:46:07  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 changes by IPG
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19:34:57  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20719 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Remove some hardcoded iconsizes.
19:38:56  <planetmaker> quak quak! :-)
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19:42:11  <Eddi|zuHause> mÀÀh
19:42:45  <planetmaker> muh?
19:48:30  <ABCRic> groink
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19:49:16  <Eddi|zuHause> miau
19:49:27  <ABCRic> znhek
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19:50:04  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound like an animal...
19:50:35  <ABCRic> it's an alien!
19:50:42  <ABCRic> or something like that
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19:59:44  * Alberth thinks he ended up at #zoo in some way
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20:00:52  <frosch> oh dear, after two years of opengfx development, it is still incomplete :p
20:01:00  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20720 /trunk/ (11 files in 5 dirs): -Add: separate GUI icons for vehicle/company profit, exclusive rights and unread news.
20:01:06  <planetmaker> oh no!
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20:03:34  <ABCRic> Is that why OTTD complains about missing sprites?
20:03:51  <planetmaker> from tomorrow on: maybe
20:04:03  <glx> unless you compiled r20720
20:04:27  <planetmaker> today: you don't use the current OpenGFX nightly and miss the airport preview sprites
20:04:36  <ABCRic> It complained a lot when the error message came out
20:04:50  <planetmaker> ABCRic, yes. And I'm quite happy that it does :-)
20:05:02  <planetmaker> You can solve that easily, if you get an OpenGFX nightly
20:05:05  <ABCRic> ah, but I *do* use the OpenGFX nightly!
20:05:11  <planetmaker> you don't.
20:05:16  <ABCRic> I do!
20:05:20  <planetmaker> Or you would not get the error message
20:05:23  <ABCRic> Well, maybe not the latest.
20:05:56  <ABCRic> No, it doesn't complain any more.
20:06:12  <Alberth> ABCRic: "the" nightly is valid only for one night :)
20:06:21  <ABCRic> It complain|ed| when the error message was implemented, but doesn't complain since I use the nightlies.
20:06:45  <ABCRic> Alberth: then I shall update to the latest one!
20:06:48  <planetmaker> well. See :-)
20:06:57  <frosch> hmm, let's see how many nightly users complain that there is no update :p
20:07:42  <ABCRic> and technically, the nightly *may* be valid for more than one night, if there are no commits until the next scheduled time.
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20:16:17  <ABCRic> Checklist: Update OGFX | | Update OSFX | | Complain to my ISP
20:16:49  * avdg should also add 3) to his checklist
20:17:13  <ABCRic> ISP making your connection slow, avdg?
20:17:27  <avdg> yes, if I download too much :p
20:17:39  <ABCRic> mine is awful
20:17:45  <ABCRic> works half the time
20:17:50  <avdg> actually, if a fool that shares my connection uses too much
20:18:04  *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@] has joined #openttd
20:18:05  <avdg> I use max 10%
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20:18:37  <ABCRic> meh. My connection works on a high-low basis.
20:19:05  <ABCRic> It's either at less-than-normal speed, or pages-don't-even-load speed.
20:19:21  <avdg> downloaded some videos today, still a small 600mb used today
20:20:03  <ABCRic> 1.07 GB here
20:20:07  <avdg> aww...
20:20:23  <avdg> 4 gig left for 6 days
20:20:42  <avdg> and today we used already 3 gig
20:20:59  <ABCRic> and that's because I have a several GB download running since... 8 hours ago
20:21:03  <avdg> yesterday a peak of 5.4 gig *has to blame someone*
20:21:21  <ABCRic> oh, I have unlimited usage :D
20:21:55  <avdg> I use dailly arround 300-400 mb
20:22:16  <avdg> with peaks arround 1 gig
20:22:28  <avdg> sometimes even 2
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20:22:37  <avdg> but very rare
20:23:15  <ABCRic> I never get 2GB a day because my connection doesn't work right, otherwise, I'd download a LOT more.
20:23:34  <avdg> well, I have a 30mbps connection
20:23:36  <avdg> cable
20:23:50  <ABCRic> I have 5mbps one
20:23:51  * planetmaker pulls OpenTTD trunk and looks at the pcx :-)
20:23:53  <ABCRic> broadband
20:24:41  <ABCRic> I wanted to get a cable one, maybe even fiber, but my ISP got me stuck to my contract for 1 year after I changed my traffic plan
20:24:58  <ABCRic> I still have until around March
20:25:10  <planetmaker> frosch, is the crown your creation?
20:25:17  <frosch> yes
20:25:22  <planetmaker> <3
20:25:38  * avdg goes for a compile
20:26:05  <frosch> planetmaker: the icons are all centered (when using offset 0,0)
20:27:04  <frosch> to match they spritefont they should not extent a height of 10 pixels though
20:27:26  * ABCRic double-clicks UpdateOTTD.bat and waits patiently
20:27:41  <avdg> :)
20:27:54  <ABCRic> :D
20:28:07  <planetmaker> ok, thanks for the info :-)
20:28:21  <planetmaker> I'll have to look at the others which 2006TTD supplied wrt size then
20:28:32  <planetmaker> But... I'll need some for tomorrow anyway :-P
20:29:17  <Eddi|zuHause> weird... my provider does not lower my bandwidth if i use the line at full speed all the time...
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20:29:43  <avdg> eddi: try it for a month :p
20:29:54  <ABCRic> You're very lucky.
20:30:33  <Eddi|zuHause> avdg: likely, if i download full speed for a month, i get about as much as you during a day :p
20:30:45  <avdg> lol
20:31:04  <avdg> mine or all us together?
20:31:31  <Eddi|zuHause> if you used your line full speed
20:31:44  * avdg types bin/openttd
20:31:53  * ABCRic wanders off to play OpenTTD r20720M
20:32:03  * Eddi|zuHause always types b[PgUp]
20:32:09  * avdg hates red boxes
20:32:16  <ABCRic> oh, look. It's missing some sprites. How unexpected
20:32:23  <Eddi|zuHause> typically results in either "bg" or "bin/openttd &"
20:33:23  <Alberth> 'make run' also does the trick :)
20:33:57  <avdg> :)
20:34:12  <planetmaker> yep, make run is quite handy :-)
20:34:31  <avdg> what about passing parameters? is that possible?
20:35:55  <ABCRic> hmm...
20:36:15  <Alberth> advg not afaik, unless you change the makefile
20:36:35  <ABCRic> Suggestion: make the missing sprites message appear only at startup instead of every time the main menu is opened
20:36:39  <Eddi|zuHause> yes there is
20:36:49  <Eddi|zuHause> something like "make run ottd_args=blah"
20:36:58  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure about the name
20:40:33  <avdg> hmm.. I think it is openttd_args
20:41:02  <Rubidium> OPENTTD_ARGS
20:42:14  <ABCRic> now that's quite a yelling argument
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20:46:06  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20721 /trunk/src/object_cmd.cpp: -Fix: objects that can be built on water shouldn't be drowned.
20:47:09  <ABCRic> drowned objects? poor things
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20:52:42  <avdg> rev check for git broken? *doesn't see the correct hash*
20:52:48  <Vitus> Hmmm, I have to try it.
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20:54:32  <planetmaker> he. Now I also know how the "Update your base set" error looks like :-)
20:54:36  <planetmaker> Nicely annoying :-)
20:55:24  <avdg> it should take you to the online content update, but won't make sense :)
20:55:41  <planetmaker> :-)
20:56:02  <ABCRic> how can I update if there is no update? :P
20:56:15  <avdg> nothing more annoying then an error without a fix :p
20:57:12  <Rubidium> there is a fix!
20:57:15  <planetmaker> ^
20:57:16  <Rubidium> just fix OpenGFX
20:57:23  <avdg> :p
20:57:27  <Rubidium> (or use the original graphics)
20:57:37  <ABCRic> Yeah, there's a fix... But hasn't been made
20:57:47  <avdg> ^
20:58:18  <planetmaker> how do you know, ABCRic ? ;-)
20:58:33  <ABCRic> *But hasn't been made available yet
20:58:43  <ABCRic> there :)
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21:02:23  <Belugas> night night
21:02:39  <avdg> gn
21:02:50  <ABCRic> gn, whale/aircraft
21:03:07  <ABCRic> :D
21:03:43  <Eddi|zuHause> whales! plural!
21:07:59  <Vitus> Rubidium: I've been trying wallyweb's damn dam NewGRF (again) and found following problem: you can build the same object on top of the old one, which causes this assertion error (Assertion failed at line 671 of ../src/command.cpp: res.GetCost() == res2.GetCost() && res.Failed() == res2.Failed()). Now, I'm not sure if it's problem in his NewGRF or OpenTTD.
21:08:15  <planetmaker> openttd
21:08:30  <planetmaker> a newgrf must not cause an assertion when it tries to build somewhere :-)
21:08:44  <Vitus> I suppose so, but I wanted to be sure :)
21:09:05  <Eddi|zuHause> no amount of external input (aka newgrf) should be able to cause an assertion
21:10:19  <SmatZ> it's easy to make external input  (aka savegame) that crashes openttd
21:10:57  *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@] has joined #openttd
21:11:11  <planetmaker> :-)
21:11:24  <SmatZ> checkig savegaame consstency is almost impossible
21:11:25  * planetmaker has a few of those
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21:11:36  <SmatZ> sorry for the typos, my PC is underr high load
21:11:43  <SmatZ> swapping a  lot
21:12:00  <Vitus> Oh, and the second problem: You can modify terrain under built dam, which in turn causes some graphical glitches. Now, I'm not totally sure, but this shouldn't happen with custom slope check, right?
21:12:40  *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:13:25  <Lakie> Thats due most likely to a specification change, Vitus
21:13:48  <Lakie> The method of how autoslope was altered, to be a yay/nay rather than slope check
21:14:22  <Vitus> Well, I'm using the NewGRF which should be compatible with the new specs. But then again, it could still be an error within his NewGRF
21:14:29  <Lakie> (And I believe that without the callback in the grf it defaults to normal autoslope behaviour)
21:14:33  <ABCRic> W00t! First crash on a self-compiled OpenTTD.
21:14:57  <ABCRic> And I have no reason why.
21:15:16  <SmatZ> ABCRic: did you apply any patches?
21:15:22  <ABCRic> nope.
21:15:46  <ABCRic> but I did use a scenario with a missing newgrf.
21:15:52  <Lakie> Likely an oversight in the newgrf, Vitus, the changes are fairly recent, so it'll take time for authors to adjust.
21:15:58  *** rhaeder [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:16:01  <Vitus> Alright
21:16:27  <Yexo> Lakie: that is no reason for openttd to crash
21:16:29  <Vitus> Just for record, it's this NewGRF:
21:16:35  <Lakie> I'm not even sure if some of them have reckonized the changes to things like how autoslope work.
21:16:48  <Vitus> Yexo: The second problem doesn't seem to crash OpenTTD
21:17:08  <Yexo> oh, I missed that :)
21:17:21  <Lakie> As for building ontop of other objects, you should get some message about object being in the way
21:17:30  <ABCRic> Which I don't know why was missing; I was using the latest openttdcoop scenario challenge thing, and it said all needed NewGRFs were in the openttdcoop GRF pack. Which I have.
21:17:39  *** fonsinchen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:19:00  <Eddi|zuHause> ABCRic: main issue now is to reliably reproduce the crash
21:20:12  <Vitus> Hmmm, I'm getting crash without any error message. Maybe it's the same one. (Also using self-compiled version)
21:20:58  <ABCRic> Eddi|zuHause: like I said, I had a missing NewGRF. OpenTTD clearly states that crashes may occur when grfs are missing and--
21:21:04  <ABCRic> damn
21:21:17  <Eddi|zuHause> ABCRic: it says that, but it should still better not happen
21:21:29  <Rubidium> Vitus: please file a bug report, otherwise it'll probably be forgotten
21:21:29  <Vitus> That's all I have:
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21:21:49  <Vitus> Alright, Rubidium.
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21:22:54  <Yexo> ABCRic: can you reliable reproduce the crash?
21:23:04  <Yexo> by loading some savegame with a certain grf missing?
21:23:45  <ABCRic> Got the cause:
21:23:55  <ABCRic> There's some issue with autosaving
21:24:21  <ABCRic> My game crashed at the start of February, and so did Vitus'
21:24:49  <ABCRic> So it's likely autosaving
21:24:56  <ABCRic> Will test some more
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21:25:11  <Yexo> Vitus: how can I build the dam?
21:25:22  <Yexo> ie what is the correct land slope to build it?
21:25:54  <Vitus> Give me a second
21:25:55  <planetmaker> ABCRic, now you can build your own OpenGFX and the "missing sprites" are gone again ;-)
21:26:56  <Vitus> Yexo:
21:27:07  <Vitus> ABCRic: I've got autosave disabled
21:27:18  <Vitus> But it crashes everytime
21:27:33  <ABCRic> At the first of February?
21:27:40  *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:28:28  <Vitus> Let me check
21:29:05  <ABCRic> If not, this scenario is cursed. Crashed at 1st February again
21:29:15  <ABCRic> Will try without autosave
21:29:33  <Yexo> ABCRic: can you upload the scenario somewhere?
21:29:39  <Vitus> 1st March
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21:30:13  <ABCRic> Yexo: Just a sec, grabbing link
21:30:28  <ABCRic> Yexo:
21:30:53  <Yexo> ah, that one
21:31:34  <Rubidium> that one is "just broken" (period)
21:31:49  <ABCRic> is?
21:31:51  <Rubidium> even its gamelog is corrupted
21:32:08  <Rubidium> and... it's made with a modified version, so we don't support it anyway
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21:32:34  <ABCRic> But they said it was made on 1.0.2, and posted it as a challenge.
21:33:10  <ABCRic> And posted it on July 27, which is far from April 1st
21:34:03  * planetmaker has unfortunately no clue which version actually was used
21:34:19  <planetmaker> too bad :-(
21:34:34  <ABCRic> Wait, my game just crashed again. At the first of February. On a new game.
21:34:43  <ABCRic> Without me doing anything.
21:34:49  <Vitus> Rubidium:
21:35:15  <Rubidium> planetmaker: 16277 (modified), 16341 (modified) and 1.0.2
21:35:40  <Rubidium> furthermore NewGRFs were added, moved and removed after the game started
21:35:58  <planetmaker> hm yeah.
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21:36:18  <Vitus> Hmmm, it doesn't look like the crash I had. The one was with randomly generated map.
21:36:23  <planetmaker> though afaik only old station grfs were removed. But I didn't check myself really
21:36:31  <ABCRic> What I know is that these crashes are all giving exception C0000005
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21:37:21  * avdg now understands why there is a g in the commit version
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21:38:11  <Rubidium> ABCRic: so a segfault
21:38:18  <Rubidium> likely dereferencing NULL
21:38:28  <Rubidium> in any case, that savegame if unsupported
21:38:36  <ABCRic> And apparently all at location 005E9B88
21:39:21  <ABCRic> But they're not just happening on the scenario.
21:39:33  <ABCRic> They're happening on new generated games as well
21:40:10  <ABCRic> And only at the first of February, if autosave is set to every month
21:42:19  <Vitus> ABCRic: I had crash with the same exception (C0000005), however, I don't use autosave
21:42:47  <Vitus> It's in this crash log:
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21:43:03  <ABCRic> and not every time, it seems.
21:43:13  <Vitus> I had it everytime so far
21:43:47  <Vitus> Disable animations in settings dropdown menu and let it run in fastforward for a minute or so
21:44:40  <Hirundo> C0000005 is a 'standard' segfault, having the same exception code doesn't mean it's the same error
21:44:46  <Vitus> Hmmm
21:44:47  <ABCRic> didn't have to wait a minute; crashed instantly
21:45:06  <Vitus> Hirundo: But it seems to crash on same conditions
21:45:42  <Vitus> ABCRic: win32?
21:45:47  <ABCRic> crashed again, disabled animations and waited for a bit.
21:46:11  <ABCRic> Vitus: yeah
21:46:35  <Vitus> You got r20701, too?
21:46:56  <Vitus> Hmmm, I could try today's nightly
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21:47:22  <ABCRic> No, self-compiled 20721
21:47:59  <Vitus> Silly me, I meant 20721
21:49:00  <Vitus> Anyways, I have to go. Good night
21:49:11  <Vitus> I'll be here tomorrow if you happen to need additional details :)
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21:50:36  <ABCRic> Happened again, same exception, same location...
21:51:16  <ABCRic> Should I file a bug report?
21:51:26  <ABCRic> Or should I send you the details through here?
21:52:08  <Rubidium> ABCRic: with that *broken* scenario?
21:52:30  <ABCRic> Again, it's not on a scenario. It's on new generated games.
21:53:35  <Rubidium> seems to work fine for me, so I'm wondering what's special about your game
21:53:53  <Lakie> newgrfs?
21:55:24  <ABCRic> no NewGRFs are enabled.
21:56:14  <ABCRic> Here's the crash log:
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21:57:34  <Rubidium> hmm, something smells fishy in the sprites
21:57:36  <planetmaker> you have a modified openttd version
21:58:47  <ABCRic> planetmaker: I'm running r20721 self-compiled. I didn't change a thing in the code.
21:59:14  <ABCRic> I couldn't be running r20721 unless I had compiled it myself.
21:59:28  <avdg> ABCRic: are you using a scm?
21:59:34  <planetmaker> still it should not report as 'modified'
21:59:36  <planetmaker> IIRC
21:59:38  <Rubidium> the crash log says you're using a modified version
21:59:44  <planetmaker> But I don't know well windows version checks
21:59:44  <Lakie> Heh, I can't compile it 'cause my directx sdk is too new.
22:00:09  <Rubidium> Lakie: just compile a 64 bits binary; that doesn't need directx at all
22:00:13  <ABCRic> doesn't it say it's modified if I compile it myself?
22:00:16  <Lakie> Oh, nice
22:00:34  <planetmaker> ABCRic: no
22:00:42  <Rubidium> ABCRic: no, unless something in the repository is modified
22:00:43  <planetmaker> it only tells so, if you modify the source
22:00:53  <ABCRic> Rubidium: ah
22:01:36  <Rubidium> what grfcodec did you use to compile opengfx?
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22:01:56  <ABCRic> Yeah well, the compiling tutorial clearly says I have to modify the solution properties for it to compile as Release
22:02:35  <ABCRic> Plus I had to add the directories to openttd-useful to the openttd project file
22:03:12  <planetmaker> ABCRic: but... why do you compile for release?
22:03:31  <ABCRic> because it's recommended in the tutorial.
22:03:33  <Rubidium> planetmaker: MSVC debug builds are unbearably slow
22:03:46  <planetmaker> oh, I see
22:03:53  <Rubidium> even so, where does it say you need to modifiy solution properties?
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22:04:51  <ABCRic> Rubidium:
22:04:53  <ABCRic> #  Open projects/openttd_vs90.sln. This will open your IDE with the project loaded.
22:04:54  <ABCRic> # Go to Build -> Configuration Manager and select Release for OpenTTD.
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22:05:16  <ABCRic> the configuration manager alters the soultion's properties, afaik
22:05:29  <Rubidium> that's just a simple dropdown in the middle of the toolbar
22:05:36  <Terkhen> good night
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22:05:49  <Rubidium> I've changed that plenty of times without getting a modified build
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22:06:48  <Rubidium> ABCRic: what climate are you using?
22:07:01  <ABCRic> temperate
22:07:15  <glx> ABCRic: just open the dmp in msvc as you have openttd.exe and the corresponding openttd.pdb
22:07:40  <Rubidium> still doesn't crash for me
22:07:43  <Lakie> As such it should tell you were it crashed?
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22:11:19  <ABCRic> Rubidium:
22:12:07  <Lakie> vs10 != vs9...
22:12:37  <ABCRic> vs10 ~ vs9
22:12:54  <Lakie> ide wise there have been quite a number of changes
22:13:09  <Lakie> including how directories are resolved.
22:13:12  <Rubidium> what... uhm... how to call such a person... moron?... has mutilated that wiki page?
22:13:45  <Rubidium> or... you're interpreting it incorrectly
22:14:00  * Lakie gets a M because he altered the search directories in vs10
22:14:15  <Rubidium> in any case, you shouldn't change those properties
22:14:17  <Lakie> Since vs10 now stores it at project level.
22:14:34  <glx> Lakie: you need to change the global files
22:14:40  <Rubidium> Lakie: IIRC it still allows to store it outside the project as well, although in an obfuscated way
22:14:49  <Lakie> Ah
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22:15:01  <Rubidium> ABCRic: you should just have selected "Release" from the dropdown in the main toolbar
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22:15:16  <glx> ABCRic: your script just does that btw
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22:15:51  <ABCRic> but I didn't compile there, I compiled using msbuild "C:\SVN\openttd\trunk\projects\openttd_vs100.sln" /p:configuration=release /p:platform=win32
22:16:07  <ABCRic> after calling the MSVC command prompt
22:16:18  <Rubidium> but you DID modify the settings there, basically making the debug configuration like the release configuration
22:16:33  <Rubidium> instead of selecting the release configuration (which doesn't change the modified status)
22:16:34  <ABCRic> so what should I do then?
22:16:41  <Rubidium> whereas changing the debug configuration does
22:17:13  <ABCRic> right, right. restore the solution file and try again. That it?
22:17:25  <glx> Lakie: change paths in property manager
22:18:20  <Lakie> Thats where I altered them, project properties?
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22:18:54  <ABCRic> it'll show up as modified anyway, because I had to change the project properties to include directories.
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22:19:32  <glx> ABCRic: yes because vc10 is different :)
22:20:01  <ABCRic> it sure is. Has a much cooler interface :P
22:20:16  <glx> you should change global paths not projects paths
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22:20:22  <Lakie> Yup, either way just turning off animation and fast forwarding a year does nothing for me.
22:20:36  <glx> (even if they think local changes are better for average users)
22:20:52  <glx> which is true for some projects
22:20:55  <Lakie> I dunno, I can see why you'd optimally want both
22:21:22  <glx> yes some projects need a specific version of some libs
22:21:59  <Lakie> Exactly, and having it globally changed could cause issues
22:22:26  <glx> but setting paths for each project is not good either ;)
22:22:37  <Lakie> Its not ideal
22:22:51  <Lakie> Like I said you'd optimally want access to both
22:22:53  <glx> that's why there's a way to edit global pahts
22:23:02  <ABCRic> so after all, what should I do to compile it using vs10?
22:23:37  <glx> ABCRic: change paths with property manager in Microsoft.Cpp.Win32.user
22:25:33  <ABCRic> and where is that file?
22:25:41  <ABCRic> or how can I do that?
22:26:08  <ABCRic> never mind that
22:26:13  <ABCRic> found it.
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22:38:10  <ABCRic> Oh god no. no!
22:38:19  <ABCRic> it's still crashing!
22:38:49  <ABCRic> and it's no longer a modified version, the crash log says so.
22:39:11  <Yexo> are you still using that broken scenario?
22:39:28  <ABCRic> no, new generated game.
22:40:19  <ABCRic> Not a scenario, not a savegame, no NewGRFs, no AIs.
22:40:39  <planetmaker> what#s the crash log?
22:40:55  <planetmaker> (and the other crash files)
22:42:02  <ABCRic> crash log:
22:45:12  <glx> as I said, load the dmp in msvc
22:45:25  <glx> you have all the required stuff to get a trace
22:46:17  <ABCRic> I open it, then what do I do with it?
22:46:37  <glx> clic run
22:47:29  <glx> anyway the mini trace in the crash log says it's when drawing a sprite
22:49:07  <ABCRic> run where?
22:49:20  <ABCRic> I don't see any run button anywhere
22:49:40  <ABCRic> only a "Debug with Native Only" button.
22:49:46  <ABCRic> is that what you mean?
22:49:53  <glx> yes
22:49:56  <ABCRic> ah
22:50:02  <glx> the green "play"
22:50:54  <ABCRic> I di, ad this showed up:
22:50:56  <ABCRic> Unhandled exception at 0x005e9b88 (openttd.exe) in crash.dmp: 0xC0000005: Access violation writing location 0x034fa06b.
22:51:08  <ABCRic> *I did, and
22:51:09  <glx> click on break
22:51:45  <ABCRic> yes, it's pointing to line 105 on 8bpp_optimized.cpp
22:52:52  <glx> now press alt-7, it should show you the full call stack
22:52:57  <ABCRic> you say the problem happened when drawing a sprite, maybe there's some problem with OpenGFX?
22:53:42  <ABCRic> yeah, it's there.
22:53:56  <glx> paste it somewhere
22:55:08  <ABCRic> will a screenshot do? it looks awful as plain text.
22:55:50  <glx> ctrl-a, then paste :)
22:56:52  <ABCRic> there, pic for you:
22:58:00  <glx> now I know it's drawing the status bar
22:59:20  <Rubidium> the new sprites?
22:59:26  <planetmaker> hm... the news icon has the ^
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23:01:43  <ABCRic> so it did have something to do with the new sprites?
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23:02:27  <Rubidium> which is why I asked you what grfcodec you were using (eons ago)
23:03:33  <ABCRic> sorry about not answering that. I'm not using any grfcodec; I simply downloaded the latest OpenGFX nightly.
23:04:17  <planetmaker> and you use OpenGFX base set and not original?
23:04:18  *** dfox [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:04:33  <ABCRic> yup.
23:04:56  <ABCRic> I believe that that is on the log file.
23:05:12  <planetmaker> hm, yes, it is.
23:05:14  <planetmaker> true dat
23:05:42  <ABCRic> OpenGFX (520), which is the latest nightly.
23:05:47  <ABCRic> or at least I think so.
23:06:49  <ABCRic> yeah, it's the latest bundle. I updated it a few hours ago.
23:06:51  <planetmaker> yes. But r520 doesn't have the new sprites
23:06:57  <planetmaker> hm. Interesting
23:07:08  <planetmaker> I shall test that then
23:07:20  <ABCRic> I know it doesn't, but that shouldn't cause the game to crash, right?
23:07:22  <planetmaker> once openttd is done compiling that is
23:07:22  <avdg> any clue if the sprites are drawed?
23:07:31  <planetmaker> of course it should cause no crash
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23:07:51  <avdg> hmm whats the bug?
23:07:58  <ABCRic> correct me if I'm wrong, but if a sprite is missing, it should use a replacement sprite, right?
23:08:00  <planetmaker> read back
23:08:05  <ABCRic> a default sprite?
23:08:20  <glx> I tested with stable openGFX only and no crash
23:08:20  <planetmaker> ABCRic: there is no default for missing base set sprites...
23:08:54  <ABCRic> Oh. Then what happens if the sprite that has to be drawn doesn't exist?
23:09:28  <Rubidium> planetmaker: there is... the questionmark
23:09:29  <planetmaker> some other sprite is drawn. I think in new versions the land info sprite might be drawn
23:10:08  <Lakie> You mean the blue circle one?
23:10:20  <planetmaker> yes
23:10:25  <ABCRic> yeah, that's right. before I updated to the nightly, the airport preview sprites were the help icon
23:10:54  <ABCRic> which, on the latest stable, is the red circle with an i, not the question mark on the blue circle.
23:11:44  <ABCRic> So... maybe the sprite the game tries to draw breaks a size limit or something?
23:12:02  <planetmaker> hm
23:12:28  <ABCRic> I recall some revisions about bugs due to sprite sizes and such...
23:12:35  <glx> hmm I should test win32 instead x64 ;)
23:12:41  <Lakie> Hehe
23:13:07  <glx> compiling win32 release instead x64 debug
23:13:13  <planetmaker> OpenTTD r20721, ABCRic ?
23:13:18  <glx> maybe things will be different
23:13:21  <glx> planetmaker: yes
23:13:26  <ABCRic> planetmaker: yup
23:13:36  <planetmaker> hm. works for me on OSX with both OpenGFX r520 and r523
23:14:04  <ABCRic> check the crash log, planetmaker. The info is all conveniently there ;)
23:14:13  <planetmaker> :-)
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23:19:44  <ABCRic> Anyways, while I'm here, let me tell you guys that all of your work - OpenTTD, the base replacement sets, your (almost) endless patience for bug reports and people who don't understand much of this stuff - is great.
23:20:16  <ABCRic> Your dedication in maintaining and developing this game is rarely appreciated, and you deserve better.
23:20:38  <ABCRic> So let me thank you all for this great, free game.
23:21:01  <ABCRic> [/end praise]
23:22:19  *** DDR [~DDR@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:22:48  <ABCRic> no comment? D:
23:23:04  <planetmaker> :-)
23:23:20  <glx> crash \o/
23:23:46  <planetmaker> hm Only on win32, glx ?
23:23:58  <glx> win32 release yes
23:24:03  <ABCRic> I never really saw anyone being happy for having a program crash, but ok...
23:24:07  <ABCRic> xD
23:24:14  <planetmaker> oh. Of course I didn't build release...
23:25:19  <planetmaker> though... pointless on my OS ;-)
23:25:41  <glx> drawing sprite 5054
23:26:10  <planetmaker> that's extra
23:26:13  <Yexo> only release than, because win23 debug doesn't crash
23:26:25  <planetmaker> :-P win23 ;-)
23:26:56  <ABCRic> well guys, glad you found the problem :) now I gotta go
23:26:58  <glx> and indeed it's SPR_UNREAD_NEWS
23:27:01  <ABCRic> bye
23:27:08  <ABCRic> gn
23:27:13  <planetmaker> bye ABCRic
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23:27:17  <planetmaker> good find! :-)
23:30:39  <Lakie> I have a small query, is it meant to be drawing the land information sprite under vehicle number in the vehicle list (opengfx 0.2.4, looks fine under originals)?
23:31:31  <Rubidium> using 'head'?
23:31:38  <Lakie> trunk? yes
23:32:07  <Rubidium> then probably yes, as new sprites for green/red/gray/yellow blob got changed today
23:32:29  <Rubidium> just fetch a really recent opengfx (the nightly's probably not new enough)
23:33:15  <Lakie> Alright
23:33:47  <planetmaker> yes. Only compiling head of OpenGFX will solve that
23:34:03  <glx> hmm but it correctly switched to question mark
23:34:18  <planetmaker> Or checking for the nightly tomorrow after 18:30h CEST
23:34:38  <glx> oh unless it's because it draws outside the screen
23:34:51  <planetmaker> that might be the case easily
23:35:06  <planetmaker> the sprite is much larger than the "original" one
23:35:24  <glx> yes but it should not crash :)
23:35:33  <planetmaker> :-)
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23:43:29  <glx>         x    1    int
23:43:29  <glx>         y    41757992    int
23:43:40  <glx> of course that doesn't look good :)
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23:50:46  <planetmaker> looks like a big sprite ;-)
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23:54:11  <glx> but debugging with release is nasty
23:54:32  <Lakie> And debugging with debug is too slow?
23:54:50  <glx> not that slow :)
23:55:05  <glx> the problem with release is I can't get some values
23:55:13  <glx> because they are optimised
23:55:17  <Lakie> Aye, because of optimization
23:55:30  <glx> like the sprite size
23:55:42  * Lakie gets that a lot with vc++ and c# development

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