Log for #openttd on 13th October 2010:
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05:05:33  <Terkhen> good morning
05:05:56  <GhostlyDeath> I think i'll port OpenTTD to a new platform
05:06:02  <GhostlyDeath> the Linux terminal in 80x25!
05:06:28  <GhostlyDeath> the orthographic map shall be placed on it's side
05:07:12  <GhostlyDeath> It will be a new way to play the game
05:09:51  <GhostlyDeath> Would use ncurses
05:13:09  <Terkhen> how would it display tile height?
05:15:03  <ccfreak2k> GhostlyDeath, actually, that would be a new video driver, not a new platform per se.
05:15:09  <ccfreak2k> It would just run in the terminal.
05:16:02  <GhostlyDeath> Terkhen: press some special key maybe
05:16:14  <GhostlyDeath> Kinda like how transparency works?
05:16:27  <GhostlyDeath> and display height in numbers
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05:33:25  <Terkhen> I guess the people that can make sense of nethack or dwarf fortress could make sense of this too :P
05:35:12  <Mortomes> dwarf fortress <#
05:35:13  <Mortomes> <3
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06:33:40  <planetmaker> good morning
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06:42:16  <Terkhen> good morning planetmaker
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06:58:33  <planetmaker> Terkhen: what was actually the typo in OpenGFX+Trains? I don't see a difference :-)
06:58:54  <planetmaker> (but I found another typo in the German translation) ;-)
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07:05:23  <dihedral> morning
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07:23:32  <Terkhen> planetmaker: Zeyphris -> Zephyris
07:23:59  <Terkhen> also, the string STR_NAME_COVERED_PIECE_GOODS_WAGON does not seem to be used
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07:45:44  <planetmaker> that's true. Not yet :-)
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12:22:17  <planetmaker> is there a nice shorthand in (ba)sh to get all files modified in, say, the last 5 minutes?
12:25:44  <FauxFaux> zsh has all kinds of crazy glob syntax, but it's harder to understand than the perl.
12:36:04  <Yexo> something with stat -c %Y <file> (print modification date of <file> in seconds since epoch) and date +%s ?
12:38:09  <dihedral> find can probably only give you the last hour
12:38:46  <Xaroth> you can use find ?
12:39:25  <Xaroth> find / -type f -mtime -7
12:40:46  <Xaroth> er, it'd be
12:41:03  <Xaroth> find / -type f -mmin -5 or something like that
13:00:24  <planetmaker> Xaroth, thanks a lot. That does the trick :-)
13:00:30  <Xaroth> :)
13:00:47  <planetmaker> though I replace / by . ;-)
13:01:12  <planetmaker> Just need to copy the output of my create_plots script to my paper folder ;-)
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13:05:50  <dihedral> could someone confirm something for me?
13:05:54  <dihedral> someone like planetmaker ? :-P
13:05:56  <dihedral>
13:06:13  <dihedral> i cannot believe that rcon move requests a password, that does not sound correct to me
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13:10:04  <planetmaker> dihedral, which password? That of the company?
13:10:09  <glx> hmm move just moves without checking anything else
13:10:13  <glx> IIRC
13:10:14  <planetmaker> It doesn't need that. The rcon pw probably
13:11:07  <glx> anyway dihedral, why is there an empty comment ?
13:11:34  <dihedral> glx, mobile phone sent the post the next morning when i opened my browser again :-(
13:11:40  <dihedral> so i deleted it's content
13:11:54  <dihedral> as i faild to spot a 'delete' link
13:12:00  <glx> ok deleted it
13:12:07  <dihedral> thank you glx :-)
13:12:24  <dihedral> move executed server side should indeed not prompt for the password
13:12:38  <dihedral> in fact - actually it is the client that promts for the password, not the server
13:12:46  <dihedral> at least this counts for the move command
13:13:18  <glx> I guess it's easy to check that on ottdcoop server
13:13:37  <glx> as the admins are here ;)
13:14:22  <planetmaker> we don't use rcon pw, but the IRC bridge exclusively
13:14:53  <planetmaker> but when executed as server (that's what the IRC bridge does), I don't need a pw.
13:19:16  <dihedral> thank you planetmaker :-)
13:20:09  <glx> rcon pw "cmd" should do the same as cmd on the console
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13:28:40  <Chris_Booth> afternoon all
13:31:11  <dihedral> glx, the move command reacts differently if executed by a client or the server
13:36:12  <planetmaker> dihedral, even if executed with rcon pw?
13:36:24  <planetmaker> if the latter is given, it shouldn't
13:36:44  <dihedral> erm
13:36:58  <dihedral> rcon sends the entire 3rd parameter to the server in order to be executed there
13:37:05  <dihedral> it has no contact to the client any longer
13:38:05  <planetmaker> meaning?
13:38:23  <dihedral> the client only executes part 1 of that command
13:38:26  <dihedral> namely 'rcon
13:38:27  <dihedral> '
13:38:45  <dihedral> arg 2 is the password, sent in the packet PACKET_CLIENT_RCON to the server
13:38:54  <dihedral> part 3 is the command + all it's args the server should handle
13:39:08  <dihedral> the client does not touch this piece of information
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13:41:23  <glx> dihedral: by console I mean server console
13:42:00  <dihedral> :-)
13:43:07  <Belugas> hello
13:43:45  * dihedral waves 'hello' to sir Belugas
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13:45:01  * Belugas shakes hand with dihedral
13:45:36  <dihedral> @seen hand
13:45:36  <DorpsGek> dihedral: I have not seen hand.
13:45:40  <dihedral> ah
13:45:43  <dihedral> :-P
13:47:07  <Belugas> so litteral...
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13:57:09  * planetmaker wonders whether something litteral means something like 'wasted' ;-)
13:57:19  * planetmaker steals a 't' of Belugas and waves 'hello'
13:59:10  <dihedral> :-P
13:59:12  <dihedral> hihi
14:03:48  <Belugas> so.. i've got dihedral
14:03:52  <Belugas> s ahdn,
14:03:55  <Belugas> hand
14:04:01  <Belugas> and now planetmaker HAS MY T
14:04:15  <Belugas> and i've got a CAPS LOCK
14:04:20  * Belugas goes back to sleep...
14:04:27  <dihedral> lol
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14:10:58  <planetmaker> sleep well :-)
14:15:23  <TrueBrain> so who suited up today?
14:15:43  <Chris_Booth> I am suiting up this evening
14:15:54  <Chris_Booth> but i assume the answer is you TrueBrain
14:16:04  <TrueBrain> I am not, not really
14:16:08  <TrueBrain> but it is suit-up day
14:16:23  <Chris_Booth> ooh I didn't know that
14:16:31  <TrueBrain>
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14:16:52  <TrueBrain> bad website, given it is not updated in a long time
14:16:53  <TrueBrain> but okay
14:17:54  <TrueBrain>
14:17:58  <TrueBrain> for those with facebook :p
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14:19:31  <planetmaker> sounds like bullshit ;-)
14:19:45  <planetmaker> or like viral marketing :-)
14:19:48  <planetmaker> hey TrueBrain :-)
14:19:50  <TrueBrain> nope
14:19:55  <TrueBrain> and it is pretty funny :D
14:20:14  <planetmaker> I don't need a special day for that ;-)
14:20:31  <dihedral> <planetmaker> or like viral marketing :-) <- LOL
14:20:46  <dihedral> "roundabound"
14:22:01  <Chris_Booth> I like the roundabout
14:22:06  <Chris_Booth> its a great pub
14:23:17  <davis> Barney Stinson is amazing TrueBrain :D
14:23:39  <TrueBrain> they wrote his character really well, yes
14:23:51  <davis> well it realy fits Neil Patrick Harris
14:24:14  <TrueBrain> except he is gay of course :p
14:24:40  <davis> well yeah , but i don't think it shows
14:24:44  <Chris_Booth> see when I found that out after 5 years of watching how I met your mother
14:24:47  <TrueBrain> it does show :D
14:24:50  <TrueBrain> but that makes it fun, tbh
14:24:55  <Chris_Booth> It ruined my view of the show
14:25:10  <Chris_Booth> Its like my head of department at university is called sam green
14:25:14  <davis> seriously Chris_Booth ?
14:25:23  <Chris_Booth> and for 2 and a half years sam green was a boy
14:25:29  <Chris_Booth> I then go to meet him
14:25:35  <Chris_Booth> and find out he is a girl
14:25:48  <Chris_Booth> the just upset my view of life for a few minutes
14:25:52  <davis> I think Neil patrick harris is one amazing actor , regardless of his sexuality :I
14:25:59  <Chris_Booth> davis: hasn't stoped me watching
14:26:00  <TrueBrain> you regret sending those endless porn mails now?
14:26:04  <davis> good :D
14:26:16  <Chris_Booth> just shocked me
14:26:41  <TrueBrain> davis: it doesn't make him bad; it is just funny that you said the role fits him; but his role is to be a womanizer. While he is gay. The irony ;)
14:26:54  <davis> truely is
14:27:06  <davis> but e.g that both NPH and his role Barney Stinson are a big fan of magic
14:27:21  <davis> suits (hehe) somewhat well
14:27:24  <Chris_Booth> majic rules
14:27:51  <davis> and if you see NPH in interviews outside of how i met your mother he's often very much like Barney , imho
14:29:18  <davis> eitherway , great show
14:30:51  <Chris_Booth> you been watching the new season davis ?
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14:32:07  <davis> uhm
14:32:11  <davis> which one is the newest?
14:32:30  <davis> VI right?
14:32:54  <davis> 6*
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14:54:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea why the windows people make everything so difficult...
14:54:37  <Eddi|zuHause> colleague gave me this relais, which is connected through usb.
14:55:04  <Eddi|zuHause> he reported that the thing sometimes works, but sometimes it freezes his computer...
14:55:18  <Eddi|zuHause> he gave me the manual for it...
14:55:29  <Eddi|zuHause> it consists of 10 pages about "how to install on windows"
14:55:42  <Eddi|zuHause> and then the linux part basically consists of two lines:
14:56:00  <Eddi|zuHause> "switch on: echo -e '\xff\x01\x01' > /dev/ttyUSB0"
14:56:06  <Eddi|zuHause> "switch off: echo -e '\xff\x01\x00' > /dev/ttyUSB0"
14:56:43  <Eddi|zuHause> and it totally simply and trivially works...
14:57:08  <bryjen> ten pages because the windows instructions have to include pictures? ;)
14:59:20  <SpComb> until some weird console-kit-daemon or whichever thinks it's a braille device and tries to offer up a terminal on it
15:04:07  <Eddi|zuHause> now... where do i get a windows from where i can diagnose his freezing problem?
15:06:04  <Eddi|zuHause> but there's something seriously wrong if the longest part for installing a device is scrolling past the windows instructions...
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15:08:44  <planetmaker> why is that wrong, Eddi|zuHause ?
15:09:03  <planetmaker> Would you have it explain on ten pages the meaning of "on" and "off" states?
15:09:34  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: longer than finding a matching USB cable in your room?
15:10:46  <planetmaker> That depends upon "your" and "room". I guess in the cases of the average 'you' and 'room' present in this channel: the search time might be considerably shorter than averages taken over the mean of the population out there
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15:22:51  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: omg, can you write a more annoying sentence? :D
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15:24:30  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, sure ;-)
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15:24:43  <TrueBrain> yeah, indeed, you just did :p
15:24:50  <planetmaker> :-P
15:25:05  <TrueBrain> (that was easy :p)
15:25:39  <xiong> Hi, guys.
15:25:56  <TrueBrain> hello uknown entity on the web
15:25:59  <TrueBrain> how can we help you on this day?
15:27:01  <xiong> I've been talking to a few guys outside about this orthogonal/diagonal issue. Nobody can believe that you all haven't settled on a convention -- that an entire game has been built without clear consensus on whicth way is North.
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15:27:23  <xiong> s/whicth/which/
15:27:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the comments in the code say north is top of the screen
15:28:03  <Eddi|zuHause> tile (0,0) is north
15:28:04  <TrueBrain> is anyone in doubt what is north?
15:28:18  <Eddi|zuHause> but north has nothing to do with diagonal...
15:28:27  <xiong> Eddi|zuHause, I think you just said three contradictory things.
15:29:08  <xiong> I agree that 'north is top of screen' is reasonable -- no more logical than any convention but it's what I assumed.
15:29:11  <TrueBrain> and it is weird, why wouldn't we have settled on a convention? I mean .. after all this game is real and operational, so we did settle on something :)
15:29:31  <xiong> Seems to me, last time I was here, there was quite a bit of thrashing. So, here we go.
15:29:44  <TrueBrain> not often we throw things away
15:30:01  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the coop people had used a different notion of what is "north" in their games, but who cares about them...
15:30:14  * TrueBrain looks around
15:30:18  <xiong> A single tile is not north; north is a direction. Do you mean the tile in the corner of the map, which is northernmost, is (0, 0)? I'll buy that and that's fine.
15:30:46  <frosch123> how about DIR_N then?
15:30:47  <Eddi|zuHause> let's call it "north pole". better?
15:31:02  <TrueBrain> frosch123: lets not go there :D
15:31:05  <xiong> Eddi|zuHause, Do you understand that I'm more or less ruthlessly opposed to iconoclasm?
15:31:16  <TrueBrain> in the old days, every entity had a different value for directions :D
15:31:26  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i don't understand anything you say.
15:31:41  <xiong> If the convention is that top-of-viewport is north, then we don't want to say or even hint at some alternate north.
15:32:11  <frosch123> TrueBrain: did you discuss that all day?
15:32:14  <planetmaker> xiong, the problem is that "diagonal" requires a frame of reference. And there are two: screen + grid. Which are off by 45° or so
15:32:18  <xiong> That takes the discussion into the ditch, a total waste of time. North is north is north is north is top of viewport is top of screen is facing away from player.
15:32:19  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I did what?
15:32:34  <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: the code fairly unanimously sais that, but we can't force the players to believe anything
15:32:34  <frosch123> "you" can also be plural
15:32:41  <frosch123> but yes, you too :p
15:32:46  <xiong> planetmaker, That is why I'm trying to nail this to the wall so it doesn't wiggle.
15:32:56  <frosch123> you are sysop, so it is your fault. are you used to anything else?
15:32:57  <planetmaker> good luck :-)
15:33:01  <xiong> I don't care about players! I don't care about iconoclasts!
15:33:06  <TrueBrain> frosch123: well, you asked it at me, so I at least have to be included in the you :)
15:33:18  <TrueBrain> frosch123: still I wonder I discuss 'what' all day? :)
15:33:22  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes, they did. And probably (some) still do.
15:33:26  <planetmaker> I tried to change that :-)
15:33:34  <frosch123> he, about what is north :p
15:33:40  <planetmaker> :-P
15:33:49  <planetmaker> Where's North on the North pole?
15:33:56  <TrueBrain> frosch123: no clue, just arrived :)
15:34:03  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: in the south :D
15:34:04  <xiong> There is an orthodoxy which states that north is top of viewport. If any discussion is going to move forward, then the orthodox viewpoint must be considered the only viewpoint. Okay?
15:34:06  <Eddi|zuHause> the north pole isn't even at the north pole
15:34:26  <frosch123> planetmaker: ask your "Erdinduktor"
15:34:40  <planetmaker> hehe @ frosch123 :-)
15:34:42  <Eddi|zuHause> and obviously, at the magnetic north pole, the needle points down...
15:34:48  <planetmaker> indeed... good point: North will be down
15:34:50  <xiong> I can't possibly interrupt every single description of directions on the board to state and restate the basic premise.
15:34:52  <TrueBrain> lol @ Eddi|zuHause
15:34:54  <TrueBrain> down :D
15:35:08  <TrueBrain> guys ... seriously. ... I think xiong is smoking something
15:35:19  <xiong> No, I'm not. I don't do that.
15:35:20  <TrueBrain> or maybe it has babblefish between what comes in and out
15:35:58  <xiong> Nor am I an it. I choose to regard you as a person, you might extend me the same courtesy.
15:35:59  <planetmaker> xiong, you'll just have to live with the fact that you'll (always) have to define which reference frame you use for directions
15:36:07  <planetmaker> Definitions won't help that fact
15:36:17  <xiong> planetmaker, No. You choose.
15:36:19  <TrueBrain> xiong: unless proven otherwise, everyone here in this chatroom is an 'it'
15:36:24  <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: 99.8% of political debates [aka wars] base on people having different opinions on what the "basic premise" is.
15:36:27  <xiong> Then it is chosen.
15:36:54  <planetmaker> xiong, no, the speaker chooses his reference frame. He only has to make sure the others know _what_ he uses
15:37:09  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: you sound like my math teacher
15:37:21  <planetmaker> but... this IS math ;-)
15:37:31  <xiong> Let's put this another way. planetmaker is going to choose a direction for north. I will abide by that, period. I will discuss this game with planetmaker. Anybody who does not agree with planetmaker's definition of north, I will simply ignore.
15:37:33  <TrueBrain> well, in fact, it was the professor of Special Relativity Thereom, but the remark holds ;)
15:37:48  <xiong> planetmaker, Which way is north?
15:37:48  <planetmaker> haha :-)
15:37:53  <planetmaker> up
15:37:55  <TrueBrain> the opisite of south!
15:37:59  <Eddi|zuHause> that way -->
15:38:05  <TrueBrain> 90 degree from west
15:38:11  <TrueBrain> well, that is not true ... there is a 3rd dimension
15:38:15  <TrueBrain> what do we call that?
15:38:20  <planetmaker> height
15:38:23  <dihedral> i call my direction north too, is my and planetmaker's north the same?
15:38:26  <xiong> Guys, I'm serious. I'm asking planetmaker; I'm not joking.
15:38:28  <TrueBrain> by all definitions?
15:38:39  <dihedral> :-P
15:38:56  <xiong> planetmaker, Do you say that north is towards top of viewport?
15:39:04  <Eddi|zuHause> how would i know what kind of directions the astrophysicists have?
15:39:42  <planetmaker> xiong, yes
15:39:53  <planetmaker> I go by the code's definition of North is up
15:40:11  <planetmaker> dihedral, north is anyway relative to the location you are at ;-)
15:40:16  <dihedral> :-D
15:40:25  <planetmaker> its definition is a local one only
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15:40:33  <dihedral> i am at the top of the viewport :-D
15:40:40  <Belugas> which is what we have agreed, therefor it's the convention on which the game has been made
15:40:43  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, they have also North and South :-)
15:40:49  <Belugas> therefor... what was the questin again??
15:40:56  <xiong> Okay. That's great. Now, I don't mean to be rude, I don't want to upset anyone, and I agree that each human being and machine in this universe has his own frame of reference. But if I see anyone lay a claim to any variant definition of north, I'm putting him on /ignore immediately. Sorry; but otherwise the noise level will swamp my tiny brain.
15:40:57  <TrueBrain> LOL @ dihedral
15:41:07  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: how do you define north if your planet doesn't have a magnetic field?
15:41:27  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: relative to the sun of course
15:41:29  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, it's defined by the prograde sense of rotation.
15:41:40  <Belugas> can a planet NOT have a magetif field?
15:41:42  <TrueBrain> counter clockwise spin up
15:41:44  <TrueBrain> whoho
15:41:48  <planetmaker> Belugas, sure
15:41:49  <Eddi|zuHause> so "right hand rule"?
15:41:50  <TrueBrain> Belugas: a planet that is not rotating :D
15:41:57  <Belugas> ho
15:41:58  <frosch123> Belugas: i guess at least 50% of talking was about the question "what is the question"
15:42:02  <Belugas> tghat's possible?
15:42:03  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, kinda
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15:42:10  <TrueBrain> Belugas: not really, but sure :)
15:42:20  <TrueBrain> frosch123: 90%
15:42:22  <planetmaker> Belugas, sorry, but it depends on the definition of "no magnetic field" ;-)
15:42:26  <TrueBrain> the other 10% was: is this dude for real?
15:42:27  <planetmaker> Mars has very little
15:42:41  <Belugas> rght... /me goes back to sleep...
15:42:44  <dihedral> where is north from Santa's point of view? :-P
15:42:46  <TrueBrain> enjoy Belugas
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15:42:50  <TrueBrain> oeh, I am commanded to make the food here
15:43:01  * Belugas wants a PIZZA!
15:43:01  <dihedral> lol
15:43:10  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: did you mean: "what noise does a tree make if nobody listens"?
15:43:13  <TrueBrain> I will have a talk about what is north in my kitchen
15:43:15  <TrueBrain> sounds interesting
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15:43:29  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, yeah :-D
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15:44:52  <dihedral> theoretically you should be able to go far enough south, and beyond to be heading northing again - which does however (sadly) not count for openttd
15:45:06  <Xaroth> dihedral: make it work!
15:45:11  <planetmaker> play p1sim! :-P
15:45:22  <planetmaker> everything will work there
15:45:22  <dihedral> hehe
15:45:23  <dihedral> NO
15:45:24  <dihedral> :-P
15:45:38  <xiong> Okay, planetmaker, I have now just ignored 3 guys who don't seem to agree with you about north. We are going to move forward now.
15:45:57  <planetmaker> I guess you ignored the wrong people. They're all nice :-)
15:46:00  <Xaroth> xiong
15:46:00  <xiong> I see that the enum file defines track x, y, left, right, top, and bottom.
15:46:24  <dihedral> now planetmaker if you make a silly remark also, his ignore list will be quite amusing :-P
15:46:24  <Xaroth> you do realise that you just ignored at least 2 of the major developers of the game?
15:46:26  <xiong> I don't care if they are nice; I care if they accept your definition of north without discussion or quibble.
15:46:31  <dihedral> i wonder who he then wants to argue with
15:46:41  <Xaroth> I mean.. you take a random player's word for something that the developers defined
15:46:49  <xiong> Xaroth, Do you agree that north is top of viewport?
15:46:57  <Xaroth> no
15:47:01  <Xaroth> I do not
15:47:12  <planetmaker> xiong, it's irrelevant what they say on that aspect :-)
15:47:15  <dihedral> Xaroth, kronk! you are ignored :-D
15:47:24  <xiong> Okay, that's one less distraction.
15:47:26  <Xaroth> dihedral: I really don't care :P
15:47:28  <planetmaker> and it's probably quite irrelevant for any signal discussion
15:47:32  <xiong> I see that the enum file defines track x, y, left, right, top, and bottom.
15:47:43  <Xaroth> TrueBrain: @kick privs pwetty pwease? :P
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15:47:54  <dihedral> lol? this is about signals? and he's making a fuss about north?
15:47:55  <xiong> These names seem to be chosen wrt the tile in which the track bit is placed.
15:48:03  <dihedral> did someone say his signal had to face north? :-P
15:48:18  <Xaroth> did someone say north actually mattered?
15:48:30  <dihedral> size matters
15:48:33  <Xaroth> always
15:49:05  <dihedral> too long a train for too short a station just aint gonna hit it, even if they face north
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15:49:15  <Xaroth> but the man? is trying to argue on wind directions in a game that has no wind!
15:49:27  <planetmaker> Xaroth, OpenTTD has wind
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15:49:46  <planetmaker> quiz question: how do you know which direction? ;-)
15:50:07  <dihedral> whatch the windsocks at an airfield :-)
15:50:10  <xiong> Now, a continuous length of track may consist entirely of only x or only y. But it cannot consist of only left or only top. Continuous sections involving top track alternate between top and bottom; continuous sections also alternate between left and right. Correct and clear so far?
15:50:24  <planetmaker> dihedral, won a cookie
15:50:35  <Xaroth> planetmaker: and while the windsocks show signs of wind, the trees and water do not
15:50:39  <dihedral> \o/#
15:50:44  <dihedral> i like the cookie
15:50:46  <Xaroth> so it's my belief that the windsocks are rigged
15:50:48  <dihedral> will you mail it to me?
15:51:04  <planetmaker> Xaroth, it needs far less wind for a find sock to show its direction than to stirr much trees. Water shows waves just fine
15:51:21  <Xaroth> those aren't waves :P
15:51:21  <xiong> planetmaker, Correct?
15:51:22  <dihedral> Sir dih dihedral, North Road, Northington N1 1N, Northpole
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15:51:29  <planetmaker> xiong, I guess, yes
15:51:47  <Xaroth> planetmaker: just say 'north is on the bottom of the viewport'
15:51:52  <Xaroth> see how he discusses that issue.
15:52:03  <planetmaker> lol :-)
15:52:09  <Xaroth> seriously :/
15:52:30  <xiong> Great. So, again, I'm going to ask you for terms. I have a section of track; it is all x track. I have a section of track; it is top-and-bottom track. These are fundamentally different.
15:52:52  <dihedral> Xaroth, how about planetmaker saying: I do not believe North is where planetmaker says north is
15:53:01  <planetmaker> ^ I like that
15:53:02  <Xaroth> hah
15:53:25  <xiong> The all-x and all-y track is similar in some way. The top-and-botttom and the left-and-right track is similar, also, in the same way, but different from the x and the y track. What terms would you like to use to distinguish these two sets?
15:53:28  <planetmaker> but North surely is where andythenorth is
15:53:39  <dihedral> or where he comes from
15:53:51  <frosch123> xiong: x and y are straight tracks, there is even a function named for that
15:53:53  <planetmaker> the nick says that he is North
15:54:06  <frosch123> the other tracks are diagonal tracks, which means they are diagonal wrt. the tile, not wrt. the viewport
15:54:37  <frosch123> so, was this whole discussion about diagonal wrt. tile is not same as diagonal wrt. viewport? :o
15:54:38  <xiong> planetmaker, Do you agree that 'straight' and 'diagonal' cover this distinction?
15:55:00  <dihedral> say no say no
15:55:01  <dihedral> :-D
15:55:08  <Xaroth> diagonal is no direction
15:55:15  <dihedral> north, and north west :-D
15:55:22  <planetmaker> diagonal is no direction indeed
15:55:31  <Xaroth> \o/
15:55:46  <glx> I never remember which of SW-NE and SE-NW is x
15:55:50  <dihedral> passes half his cookie to Xaroth
15:55:57  <Xaroth> :)
15:55:58  <dihedral> :-D
15:56:01  <xiong> No. I speak of two classes of track. The first class includes track x and track y. The second class includes top, left, bottom, right.
15:56:05  <planetmaker> when we defined North, we can easily talk of E-W tracks and N-S tracks etc pp
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15:56:27  <frosch123> glx: neither, x is from something north to something south :p
15:56:30  <michi_cc> X is SW-NE if I'm not totally off :)
15:56:32  <planetmaker> xiong, I see no point to distinguish those tracks
15:56:38  <dihedral> #define SOUTH NORTH :-P
15:56:45  <Xaroth> #define NORTH SOUTH
15:56:46  <planetmaker> #define TRUE FALSE
15:57:04  <michi_cc> Or at least TRACK_X to be exact :)
15:57:15  <xiong> Well, I do; and I hope you'll extend me the courtesy. I promise to make it clear.
15:57:17  <frosch123> anyway, there is  picture at the top of viewport.cpp, which is all i need to remember abou tit :p
15:57:22  <michi_cc> Who knows what other X there is.
15:57:33  <Xaroth> it's common belief that the top-right corner of the map is considered north
15:57:47  <Xaroth> er
15:57:48  <dihedral> whoever believes there is no reason to distinguish those tracks will go on my ignore list :-P
15:57:50  <Xaroth> top right edge, even
15:57:51  * dihedral chuckles
15:58:00  <frosch123> Xaroth: maybe that originates from the heightmap players, who turn their screen?
15:58:09  <Xaroth> frosch123: probably
15:58:16  <glx> top is the north corner of a tile, bottom is the south corner, that's all
15:58:34  <dihedral> so north is a corner
15:58:40  <planetmaker> xiong, I propose you first try to state the problem you want to solve. And not each step
15:58:44  <planetmaker> because there might be a much fast