Log for #openttd on 18th October 2010:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:02  <GhostlyDeath> Then I go to #openttd and complain that my train breakdowns break my OpenTTD CPU
00:00:07  <GhostlyDeath> that runs at 1 instruction a minute
00:00:21  <avdg> thats a serious fast cpu :)
00:00:37  <GhostlyDeath> Then there's a 30 minutes of arguing until somebody says that it's in the options menu
00:00:50  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not
00:01:00  <GhostlyDeath> then 30 minutes of everyone insulting each other which then leads to a conversation about pizza toppings
00:01:02  <Eddi|zuHause> it's in the difficulty menu
00:01:21  <GhostlyDeath> Options as in difficulty and advanced
00:01:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't ever remember a discussion about pizza toppings in here :p
00:01:52  <GhostlyDeath> Let's start it
00:02:32  <Eddi|zuHause> "(new reply notification emails don't always get to my inbox, please let me know if you think it has happened)" <-- what? how? by email? :p
00:03:04  <[twisti]> looks like i started a fun argument there :p
00:03:11  <[twisti]> well im off to bed, night guys
00:03:13  <GhostlyDeath> Cya
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00:05:04  <Eddi|zuHause> so... we have the biweekly "please implement map rotation" topic...
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05:36:32  <planetmaker> good morning
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05:47:37  <Bobbysepp> Good morrow!
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06:03:55  <Terkhen> good morning
06:07:03  <planetmaker> moin Terkhen
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06:10:42  <andythenorth_> morning
06:18:16  <planetmaker> moin andythenorth_
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06:34:41  * andythenorth_ has an answer of sorts
06:34:59  * planetmaker has questions
06:35:17  <andythenorth_> yay
06:35:19  <andythenorth_> see if they match?
06:35:38  <planetmaker> ok ;-)
06:35:54  <planetmaker> let's start big: what's the sense of the universe? ;-)
06:38:04  <andythenorth_> to provoke questions
06:42:12  <andythenorth_>
06:45:02  <andythenorth_> ^ proposal.  Think the items in it could be broken into small chunks, not requiring one enormous change
06:45:14  <andythenorth_> think it also builds on current system instead of trying to overturn it
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06:47:00  <andythenorth_> the key thing is that groups don't do any magic
06:47:59  <andythenorth_> i.e. they stuff is only changed on the vehicles in a group when player chooses explicitly to do so
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07:49:15  <dihedral> morning :-)
07:49:20  <dihedral> planetmaker, any success ?
07:53:42  <planetmaker> not tried yet
07:58:09  <dihedral> pffft ;-)
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08:51:06  <Keiya> Toyland's bubbles need to be poppable.
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08:57:10  <planetmaker> tey do pop
08:57:26  <planetmaker> just on their own
08:57:36  <Keiya> But I can't poke them to make them pop! :P
08:57:53  <Keiya> anyway, it's keiyasleeptime
08:58:00  <planetmaker> OpenTTD is not a packaging-bubble-pop-application ;-)
08:58:13  <planetmaker> that's something for your smartphone :-P
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08:58:27  <Keiya> I don't have a smartphone :P
08:58:39  <Keiya> My phone is decidedly dumb and I like it that way
08:59:22  <Keiya> Anyway, I clearly have a patch to try to hack together when I wake up
08:59:25  <Keiya> :P
08:59:31  * dihedral read 'poopable'
08:59:53  <Keiya> They should be that too in case a child eats one
09:00:18  <Keiya> But yes, keiya.sleep()
09:00:20  <Keiya> nini
09:00:47  <peter1138> But it's 10am!
09:01:13  <planetmaker> g'night then
09:02:37  <Markk> Breakfast break o/
09:02:52  <Markk> peter1138: Where do you live?
09:07:05  <dihedral> by the way, planetmaker - you are the authority in this channel :-P
09:07:11  <dihedral> more so than last week :-D
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09:44:05  <Rubidium> dihedral: peter1138 is the master of this channel...
09:45:56  <dihedral> not according to xiong :-P
09:46:15  <Rubidium> well, he is by no way the authoritive entity on this subject
09:46:17  <dihedral> if you do not go by planetmaker's definitions of NORTH you will be ignored - :-D
09:46:28  <dihedral> ^^
09:46:47  <dihedral> or he might never return, due to the social interaction in here :-P
09:46:58  <Rubidium> /msg chanserv info #openttd <- that's IMO the authoritive entity on the subject of channel master
09:48:11  <Rubidium> well, then what's planetmaker's definition of north?
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09:50:25  <norbert79> Good day
09:50:41  <peter1138> I RULE YOU
09:50:43  <peter1138> MWHAHAHAHAH
09:51:41  <Eddi|zuHause> close your eyes, then you see what you rule.
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09:52:07  <dihedral>
09:52:22  <norbert79> Oh my, I came in in a bad moment, shall I leave you alone guys? :D
09:52:33  <norbert79> I can also close the door if you want :)
09:53:06  <Rubidium> norbert79: only when you can tell whether the food in your cafeteria is better, worse or equal to the food at IBM TRL
09:53:22  <norbert79> TRL?
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09:54:38  <norbert79> Rubidium: TRL? Besides, our location has no cafeteria, but some kitchen with very basic layouts. Only 3rd party cafeterias are available here
09:54:58  <Rubidium> norbert79: yes, TRL. You don't know that location?
09:55:09  <norbert79> Rubidium: US one?
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09:55:16  <Rubidium> norbert79: no, it's EMEA as well
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09:55:33  <norbert79> Rubidium: No, cant recall, we are calling them by their location name
09:55:40  * Rubidium wonders how long it takes to type
09:56:18  <norbert79> Rubidium: Ah, Tokyio... I am mostly familiar with Delviery Centers, not Research labs...
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09:57:46  <norbert79> Rubidium: You should not forget, that IBM employes around 400.000 people, most of them in India, so don't wonder, if I don't always know every place within IBM :)
10:00:10  <Rubidium> but... it's the same division
10:00:15  <norbert79> Not at all
10:00:29  <Rubidium> it's also IBM EMEA ;)
10:00:35  <norbert79> Research has nothing to do with Global Delviery Services
10:00:56  <norbert79> No, TRL Means IBM Research - Tokyo, which then was renamed to plain TRL
10:01:13  <norbert79> Btw the EMEA term is not anymore used as an official term within IBM :)
10:01:35  <norbert79> despite it's usage
10:01:51  <Rubidium> then they should cut it from their rDNS
10:01:55  <norbert79> (because many businesses are still using the experession of EMEA)
10:02:16  <norbert79> Rubidium: That's something which is outside of my authority or knowledge :)
10:02:47  <norbert79> besides, let's not bore the others with such stuff, shall we? :)
10:10:08  <norbert79> Won't even dare ask, how you guys are, since it's damn monday :)
10:10:26  <Rubidium> does cold count?
10:10:35  <norbert79> It does... How bad is in your area?
10:11:06  <Rubidium> cold enough to consider turning on the heating
10:11:30  <norbert79> Same here... It's around 8-10°C, and it's raining since last night
10:12:12  <Rubidium> apparantly it was -3.6°C tonight
10:13:34  <norbert79> wow
10:14:01  <Rubidium> the first time it was freezing since, well winter ended
10:14:38  <norbert79> Time to put on the winter tires
10:15:19  * Rubidium can never be bothered about that, but then... are there winter tires for bicycles?
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10:21:46  <peter1138> Yes, mountain bikers use them all year round.
10:21:50  <norbert79> Rubidium: Don't know... If you don't own a car replacing the tires is not something you should be worried for
10:22:01  <norbert79> peter1138: There are? This is new news for me
10:23:32  <Noldo> using one just in front wheel is a good start
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10:24:26  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the use for that??
10:24:36  <Eddi|zuHause> if at all, it should be the back wheel...
10:25:31  <Eddi|zuHause> if you have too much braking power on the front wheel, it throws you over
10:25:49  <Noldo> you really don't want to be in a situtation where the back wheel has traction to propel you forward, but the front wheel doesn't have traction to steer
10:26:20  <Eddi|zuHause> who cares about steering when you can't brake?
10:26:47  <Noldo> when you can't brake the thing you care most about is the ability to steer
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10:28:17  <Eddi|zuHause> if i have to trade between braking and steering, i'd take braking any time...
10:29:17  <peter1138> I just don't drive in snow...
10:29:59  <Noldo> well it's not just steering, when the front wheel loses grip you will fall
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10:30:34  <Noldo> and the sliping rear tire also gives you an early warning to be more careful
10:30:45  <peter1138> Oh, you're talking about cycling...
10:31:39  <Noldo> :)
10:32:41  <peter1138>
10:32:46  <peter1138> Wonder if they're legal in the UK :)
10:34:28  <norbert79> peter1138: These remark me on the first tires which were built back in ~1900... Going back to roots? :)
10:35:01  <peter1138> "These remark me on"?
10:35:04  <norbert79> peter1138: On the other hand I don't know if these would be legal, probably during snowing time only
10:35:09  <norbert79>
10:35:12  <norbert79> these
10:35:19  <peter1138> Do you mean "These remind me of" ?
10:35:33  <norbert79> peter1138: It's monday, what do you expect? :)
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10:43:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20988 /trunk/src/network/network.cpp:
10:43:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#4167]: no need to send packets and possibly get the connection closed
10:43:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: when the next call also tries to send the packets and then closes the
10:43:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: connection. Especially if the former frees a structure that the latter assumes
10:43:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: to be still there
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11:11:38  <norbert79> Anyone knows how to find a colour on a picture within GIMP?
11:11:48  <planetmaker> colour picker tool?
11:11:58  <norbert79> Nah, I would like to that in reverse
11:11:58  <planetmaker> O possibly
11:12:11  <planetmaker> eh?
11:12:11  <norbert79> I know the colour, but I don't know which area that might have it
11:12:20  <planetmaker> shift-o then
11:12:34  <norbert79> what does it do?
11:12:42  <norbert79> aaaah
11:12:44  <Rubidium> make one pixel that colour and then select every pixel with that same colour?
11:12:45  <norbert79> Ok, thanks, will try that
11:13:23  <norbert79> Rubidium: Actually I am just veryfying if the palette I have downloaded for GIMP really converte3d my colours to those colours, which are not for 'Openttd used' colours, like theat purple one
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11:14:53  <norbert79> I worked a bit on my condo sprite, and just wanted to move on with it, and realized, that sooner or later I have to convert the colours to OpenTTD palette
11:15:12  <xiong> Hi all.
11:15:18  <norbert79> Hello xiong
11:15:44  <xiong> norbert79, 'sooner or later', ha ha. I'm laughing with you, not at you. Been in the same place.
11:15:59  <xiong> If you're lucky, you will not have to start from scratch.
11:16:11  <Rubidium> and then the question comes, do you want to use the sane DOS palette or the somewhat less sane Windows palette?
11:16:32  <xiong> I find it essential, when doing indexed-color work, to start with the final palette.
11:16:34  <norbert79> Rubidium: So far, luckily, the colours I have chosen are fine...
11:16:54  <norbert79> xiong: I prefer RGB based work first, and then convertion
11:17:06  <xiong> norbert79, If you do anything anti-aliased, that's risky.
11:17:21  <norbert79> xiong: You cannot perform a lot of changes using indexed... Not really, check my entry in tt-forum:
11:17:43  <norbert79> xiong:
11:17:57  <xiong> Yes, there are issues with a lot of stuff wrt indexed color.
11:18:17  <norbert79> xiong: If Use the plaette conversion on this one it still looks quite nice
11:18:24  <planetmaker> indeed, norbert79 it's quite risky to start with RGB.
11:18:31  <planetmaker> at least it doesn't save work
11:18:51  <norbert79> planetmaker: No, but lot of transformations and options are only available with RGB only
11:19:01  <planetmaker> are there?
11:19:09  <planetmaker> I guess I never used them then :-)
11:19:14  <norbert79> Gaussian blurring
11:19:20  <norbert79> for e.g
11:19:29  <planetmaker> you can convert the image back and forth
11:19:56  <xiong> Um, do Hungarians not free-license their work?
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11:20:16  <norbert79> xiong: Kinda weird question. What do you mean?
11:20:23  <planetmaker> they never do. They freed Eastern Europe, now they don't need free licenses. :-P
11:20:36  <norbert79> planetmaker: You are such a rude one :D
11:20:43  <xiong> Ah. That could be an issue.
11:20:45  * planetmaker hides :-)
11:20:50  * norbert79 seeks
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11:20:58  <xiong> Did you ever solve the penntowns license issue, planetmaker ?
11:21:13  <norbert79> planetmaker: You have started it, now bare with it :D :D
11:21:14  <planetmaker> I never received anything nor do I have anything to resolve
11:21:42  <planetmaker> If you want to share your work, xiong you should do that.
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11:21:44  <xiong> I emailed you via the 'email' link in forum. No go?
11:22:14  <planetmaker> I'll check my spam box
11:22:17  <xiong> Actually, planetmaker, I consider the work to be equally creditable to both of us.
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11:24:17  <norbert79> planetmaker: - Updated the entry, last picture is the new sprite after indexed transformation, using Windows palette
11:24:19  <xiong> Well, norbert79, fwiw, I think the buildings you've drawn look very nice. I especially like the shorter, brown one.
11:24:40  <norbert79> xiong: Thats an example of the OpenGFX... Not mine, just used as reference
11:24:55  * xiong facepalms
11:25:19  <xiong> Both are good buildings; you can take it as a compliment that I saw them as belonging in the same set.
11:25:28  <planetmaker> no e-mail
11:25:35  <norbert79> the left one is a typical soviet, 10 storied-high condo/flat, first buuilt in the 1970's
11:25:45  <planetmaker> and still: just upload it to bananas.
11:25:47  <dihedral> would be nice if there was a redirect from\d+) to
11:25:58  <planetmaker> indeed :-)
11:26:07  <xiong> I just have a preference for old-fashioned stuff. As far as the tall one goes, I'd stick with the white roof. Much better.
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11:26:54  <norbert79> xiong: That part was the unfisnihsed one, and this last one is still unfinished... I have to duplicate this one, since these buildings never came in one, but always as two...
11:27:05  <Rubidium> dihedral: well, suggest it at the appropriate place and maybe the lief sysop will take it into consideration
11:27:15  <xiong> planetmaker, I realize you don't see a block where I do. That's why I sent it to you. Why not PM your email to me and I'll try again?
11:27:57  <norbert79> xiong: Look for hungarian pictures, and look for "panelház" in google, you will see what I mean... My plan is creating a total Twon replacement set based on hungarian buildings...
11:28:20  <xiong> norbert79, I would support Cyrillic grafitti but I'm afraid that realistic-sized graffiti would be too small to see.
11:28:48  <norbert79> xiong: We don't use cyrillic characters
11:28:55  <xiong> One of the great tragedies of my life was the burning of Wilson Barn -- an L maint barn in Chicago.
11:28:58  <norbert79> xiong: Our language is based on the latin characters
11:29:05  <xiong> norbert79, Pity.
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11:31:25  <xiong> I had planned to make a photo study of Wilson Barn, including the Wilson stop and the two immediately to either side. It seemed like a perfect modeling project: Perfect prototype justification for incredibly tight track radius, the complexity of a barn and its yard, the rationality of turning trains end-for-end. A perfect shelf layout -- the model would fit right into a corner, with the long leg up one wall.
11:31:32  <xiong> Then, the barn burned.
11:33:00  <xiong> Oh, and one of the really cool parts is that one leg ran past a local cemetery; the wall was covered with layers of graffiti, some quite complex, all extremely authentic. Yet the barn itself, elevated and inaccessible, was almost unchanged, except for hard weathering, since its construction 100 years previously.
11:33:31  <planetmaker> <xiong> planetmaker, I realize you don't see a block where I do. <-- and I don't see why you don't even want to give it a try
11:33:58  <planetmaker> you finished it and you should cash in on the merrit. Not me
11:34:18  <xiong> No point in debating it, planetmaker. I smell yet another place where, the harder I try to explain what to me is clear, the angrier everyone else gets. I'll take it as a 'no' and move on.
11:35:03  <planetmaker> I don't understand. You can upload files. You can e-mail files. So why not upload it at a particular site?
11:35:51  <planetmaker> why do you need someone else to do that for you while it means the same work for you to e-mail it or to publish it?
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11:37:13  <Rubidium> because officially publishing implies some sort of support?
11:39:16  <planetmaker> well... I do. But if I upload it, it will be one of many entries in bananas which I meanwhile own
11:40:01  <rril> I want to translate from English to Hebrew the game. Who do I contact?
11:40:05  <planetmaker> Each of those needs either me to update it or action on your part to (also) assign another account
11:40:19  <planetmaker> rril, the translation manager
11:40:48  <planetmaker>
11:40:53  <rril> Thanks
11:41:00  <norbert79> mil: Hebrew is already avaialble in the game, you might want to send your application for translatior, and start revieweing already present translations
11:41:08  <planetmaker> do you have already an account at openttd, rril ?
11:41:24  <planetmaker> If not, you better create one and mention the account name in the e-mail
11:41:35  <planetmaker> then you'll be assigned that language
11:41:50  <rril> i have
11:41:57  <xiong> planetmaker, Do you get the point about my feeling that this is your work as well as mine? I don't ask if you agree; merely if you understand that this is how I see it?
11:42:44  <planetmaker> In parts I do. Even though I think I only helped you through the language
11:44:04  <planetmaker> I've also already added people to projects whom I think were great help to me and who then were surprised that they found themselves as co-authors ;-)
11:44:32  <xiong> Okay, good. And I understand and respect that you disagree. So, if you will not lay claim to your share of the credit, I will not claim anything at all.
11:45:37  <planetmaker> sounds stupid to me
11:45:45  <planetmaker> or childish. Or both
11:45:49  <norbert79> Me too, like you would do planetmaker a favor...
11:46:01  <norbert79> where You asking for help
11:46:03  <xiong> No, not at all.
11:46:26  <xiong> Rather, it would be presumptuous for me to go forward now in any direction.
11:46:38  <planetmaker> how so?
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11:46:48  <xiong> That's my feeling; and I think I do no harm if I do nothing.
11:46:51  <norbert79> xiong: I think Openttd already offers all resources doing so xiong
11:47:52  <planetmaker> xiong, you do no harm. But you waste all your effort. And actually also mine which I put into helping you
11:48:30  <planetmaker> you did that with the signals. You do that with the translations. Well.
11:48:39  <xiong> Okay, so now I have said three things since I said, basically, I think going any further will produce nothing good and only stir up anger. I think I really have to promise to say nothing else about it.
11:48:54  <norbert79> planetmaker: If you want to be responsible for something, you have to make yourself familiar with that one thing, you would like to care for. But first you have to make sure, that you understand how that thing works, and not ask someone else to take responsibility for that new thing.
11:49:06  <norbert79> Eh, ment for xiong
11:49:10  <planetmaker> :-)
11:49:12  <norbert79> xiong: ^^
11:49:16  <planetmaker> I do agree, though
11:49:24  <xiong> ^^^^^
11:49:39  <norbert79> xiong: ^^ means "look up"
11:50:21  <xiong> norbert79, ^^^^^^^
11:52:04  <dihedral> xiong, i like the image :)
11:52:17  <dihedral> bigsig-001.png
11:52:34  <norbert79> dihedral: Deeplink, if I may ask? :)
11:52:45  <dihedral>
11:53:05  <dihedral> a wee bit big - but then that is the name of the project :-D
11:53:31  <norbert79> dihedral: Well, some may like it :)
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11:53:53  <dihedral> norbert79, you do not have to use it if you do not like the idea :-P
12:01:03  <dihedral> xiong, do you get that you rather annoy some people - i do not need you to agree, just do you understand that others may feel that way?
12:01:26  <dihedral> with 'others' i mean the vast majority taking part in your discussions
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12:23:25  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20989 /trunk/ (46 files in 3 dirs): -Change: make extra_grf's pcx files DOS palettes instead of converting them during compilation. Also fix misconverted sprite and some comments
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13:05:54  <Belugas> hello
13:06:00  <norbert79> hello Belugas
13:06:08  <planetmaker> moin Belugas
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13:09:47  <Belugas> hi both of ya
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13:21:31  <xiong> Does anybody understand the Rural Stations set well enough to explain the wide variety of shelters? In particular, I see no difference at all between Island and Outer. Confused!
13:23:16  * Belugas never used that set
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13:29:18  <xiong> It's not FIRS. Should I be using some other set of passenger stations? The Suburban Stations set seems broken and there is no Urban Set. I'm using the Industrial Stations Renewal Set and