Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:03:42 <Samu> When removing a rail station, do not leave track under non-station tiles (r20990) 00:03:52 <Samu> :( 00:12:18 <Samu> google sucks, I look for r20990 and I don't get what I want 00:12:25 <Samu> I don't know why everyone likes google 00:13:47 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: didn't you mean literally? 00:13:55 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 00:14:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no, i certainly did not mean "person aged 14 or younger" 00:15:15 <Samu> i just removed a station tile, the track remained there 00:15:29 <Samu> so I tried to look for 20990 and I can't find it 00:15:30 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:16:26 <Eddi|zuHause> @commit 20990 00:16:28 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by smatz :: r20990 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2010-10-18 17:06:20 UTC) 00:16:29 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -Fix: when removing a rail station, don't leave track under non-station tiles 00:17:18 <SmatZ> Samu: how did you know you should be looking for r20990? 00:17:39 <Samu> it was in the changelog 00:17:50 <Samu> changelog.txt 00:19:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.167.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:20:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.167.78] has joined #openttd 00:22:06 <glx> station or non-station ? 00:22:46 <glx> non-station being station where train can't run 00:23:53 <Samu> i'm confused 00:24:04 <Samu> I planted a station 00:24:15 <Samu> then i click the bulldozer 00:24:18 <Samu> and station 00:24:24 <Samu> and i click on a station tile 00:24:32 <Samu> and I see the rail track 00:24:39 <Samu> the station tile is gone 00:24:43 <Samu> but the rail is not 00:24:58 <glx> the rail was visible before removing the station ? 00:25:04 <Samu> ye 00:25:09 <glx> that's why :) 00:25:26 <Samu> I'm still confused 00:25:33 <glx> rail is removed only if the rail was not visible 00:25:39 <glx> newgrf feature 00:26:40 <Samu> you mean I can remove track from a station but keep the station? 00:26:47 <glx> no 00:27:04 <glx> I mean there are station tiles with no rail visible 00:27:19 <glx> like a car park 00:29:11 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CA2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:29:26 <glx> http://media.openttd.org/images/screens/1.0/20100313_rakim-89_a.png <-- the warehouse with green roofs are station tiles 00:29:33 <glx> but they have no rails 00:30:09 <Samu> tar xz bundles, does that mean all bananas content will come compressed? 00:30:23 <Samu> that's awesome 00:30:35 <glx> they already come compressed 00:31:06 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-244-144.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:32:00 <Samu> wow, I didn't know that 00:33:18 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-17-238.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 00:33:21 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 00:36:47 <Samu> how much is a KiB? 00:37:13 <Rubidium> 8 times as much as a Kib 00:37:48 <Samu> download size for NoCAB 2.1.2 - 92,2 KiB 00:38:14 <Samu> but on my computer it says 440 KB 00:38:35 <Samu> does the file come compressed and then is decompressed? 00:39:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 00:39:24 <Samu> cool 00:40:03 <Rubidium> bah... the UTC CET difference is too small 00:40:23 *** AveiMil [~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC] 00:40:34 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean one hour is not enough? 00:41:11 <Rubidium> it makes noticing you're looking at a UTC clock harder 00:41:41 <Rubidium> e.g. if the UTC clock would be saying 13:42, it'd be quite obvious for me it's UTC and not local time 00:42:51 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@225.80-202-65.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 00:52:41 <Samu> winrar won at compressing NoCAB 00:53:10 *** welshdragon [~dragon@millsie.net] has left #openttd [Leaving] 00:53:48 <Samu> bananas is using gzip from what I can tell 00:56:59 <Samu> there's 3 1.0.5 servers, I joined the italian one 00:59:22 *** welshdragon [~dragon@millsie.net] has joined #openttd 01:02:13 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 01:03:22 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.104.150] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 01:03:55 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:15:40 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3088.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 01:24:10 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:30:53 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 01:32:57 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@adsl-99-129-154-191.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Don't Panic!] 01:33:05 *** avdg [~avdg@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 01:33:26 *** avdg [~avdg@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 01:35:47 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@adsl-99-129-154-191.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 01:41:33 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9FC0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:45:18 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.36.217] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:54:25 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:4c09:e174:1b4b:128c] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:35:21 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 02:36:05 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:36:44 *** Cwo_caRi_tmen [~Guest6589@61.19.244.134] has joined #openttd 02:36:44 *** Cwo_caRi_tmen [~Guest6589@61.19.244.134] has left #openttd [] 02:39:34 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-184.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 02:45:03 <Samu> how do I send money to a company if there's no one playing it atm? 02:45:18 <SmatZ> you can't 02:45:20 *** fjb is now known as Guest74 02:45:21 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFEDC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:45:36 <Samu> cool 02:45:48 <Samu> I'm exploiting 3 companies 02:46:23 <SmatZ> server admins won't like you 02:46:44 <Samu> they were unprotected and no one in there 02:47:03 <SmatZ> if you think what you do is nice and fair, it's fine 02:47:09 <SmatZ> but it doesn't sound so 02:47:16 <Samu> I'm paying their loan 02:47:17 *** TheDoleKing [4a8464f2@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 02:47:27 <SmatZ> ok :) 02:47:30 <Samu> and completed 2 routes that seemed incomplete 02:47:42 <SmatZ> then you are nice :) 02:47:58 <Samu> i wanted to pay each others loan 02:47:58 <TheDoleKing> Whats added in the new update 1.0.5 02:48:06 <Samu> but i can't send money 02:48:42 <SmatZ> TheDoleKing: minor versions are mostly bugfixes 02:49:15 <TheDoleKing> Ahhh a friend just got me playing like a week ago 02:49:45 <Samu> i bought 75% shares of the richest company which is not mine 02:49:51 <Samu> 25% for each 02:50:04 <Samu> this shares thing is messed up 02:50:37 <TheDoleKing> how do I make it so there are companys? 02:50:55 <Samu> doelking, are you in the italian server? 02:51:35 <Samu> that server is full, it has 4 AI's doing nothing 02:51:36 <TheDoleKing> No not that I am aware of 02:51:59 <Samu> admin seems to be away 02:52:15 <TheDoleKing> Whats a good server 02:52:21 *** Guest74 [~frank@p5DDFFCA0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:56:15 <Samu> this is problematic 02:56:26 <Samu> I could take all company slots on a server 02:56:50 <TheDoleKing> Well you did and its the smallest map I have ever seen 02:57:44 <Samu> now no one can make a company 02:57:57 <TheDoleKing> Yeah I know 02:58:02 <TheDoleKing> No fun 02:58:11 <Samu> I can only take password out 02:58:21 <Samu> which one do you want? 02:59:21 <TheDoleKing> Naaa 02:59:34 <TheDoleKing> Every thing on the maps taken any way 03:05:23 *** TheDoleKing [4a8464f2@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 03:23:58 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 03:26:30 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 03:31:14 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:56:24 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:57:12 <supermop> hello 03:57:25 <avdg> hi :o 03:57:37 * avdg needs to get some sleep 03:57:45 <Samu> hi 03:57:56 <supermop> how is everyone? 03:58:06 <Samu> I found a way to give money 03:58:37 <Samu> im giving money to my own companies 03:58:46 <avdg> :) 03:58:49 <Samu> to pay their loan 03:59:18 <avdg> oh, I thought the same companies 03:59:24 <avdg> *company 04:00:41 <svip> avdg: How about that sleep? 04:01:07 <avdg> well, its 5 am here and I didn't sleep for 48 houres 04:01:44 <svip> Imagine lying down. Quiet. And every possible image filling your mind. 04:02:18 <svip> Then when you wake up, the world becomes more appealling. 04:02:23 <svip> And OpenTTD easier to play. 04:02:44 <Samu> this is odd 04:03:06 <Samu> I'm giving money to a company that's going to buy shares to the company that gave it money 04:03:15 <svip> Capitalism. 04:03:34 <svip> Or how the finacial crisis started. 04:03:42 <svip> Samu: Free market simulator. 04:04:26 <svip> avdg: By the way, speaking of sleep, I really should get some too. 04:04:27 <Samu> lol it's becoming cheaper to buy 25% shares 04:05:02 <Samu> this is kinda bad :p 04:06:40 <avdg> shares must be more controllable by the player imo 04:07:13 <avdg> but I bet no1 is caring about the sharing system 04:07:24 <svip> avdg: Start caring. 04:07:58 <avdg> and what next, 1 more implementation to care for? :p 04:08:13 <avdg> I'm taking already too much jobs :p 04:08:31 <avdg> nah, I'll see 04:08:41 <avdg> no discussion, no need ;-) 04:08:43 <svip> Maybe I should care. 04:09:02 <svip> But I am too tired to care at the moment. 04:09:06 <svip> Maybe tomorrow! 04:09:11 <avdg> gn :p 04:09:18 <svip> Nah, I have assignments and whatnot ... 04:09:21 <svip> Yes, good night. 04:09:47 <avdg> I can only offer boring questions :( 04:10:06 <Samu> lol, now I sold 25% shares 04:10:21 <Samu> and bought 50% afterwards 04:10:26 <Samu> this is flawed 04:10:38 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cc60.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 04:10:44 <avdg> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/webottd/wiki/Specifications <- has few questions here 04:11:10 <avdg> ^ lol @ shared system 04:16:11 <Samu> finally, I paid everyone's loan 04:17:07 <Samu> all 3 stole from the big one, which isn't mine 04:17:14 <Samu> can't access it 04:17:52 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8ce17.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:18:44 * avdg wonders if maintaining multiple companies was allowed there 04:19:20 <Samu> have a good play 04:19:27 <Samu> is the welcome message 04:20:07 <Samu> selling everyone's shares and going to bed 04:22:02 <Samu> oh lord 04:22:10 <Samu> there is seriously a big flaw somewhere 04:24:29 <Samu> money that wouldn't be possible for me to win 04:24:55 <Samu> and now all 3 companies together are worth more than the big one 04:25:14 <Samu> some kind of chain share selling 04:25:54 <avdg> you mean sharing from eachother in a loop? 04:26:41 <Samu> yeah, I think 04:27:32 <Samu> the money multiplicated somewhere 04:27:48 <avdg> donno, I didn't read that part of the source 04:28:15 <Samu> i dont know either 04:28:38 <avdg> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/company_cmd.cpp 04:28:44 <avdg> should be this if I'm right 04:29:17 <avdg> at least for costs actions 04:29:26 <Samu> big company is worth 4,3 million, and my 3 companies are worth 1,7m 2,9m and 2,4m when they were worth of about 100k each 04:30:09 <avdg> its not the only problem, now I remember 04:30:42 <avdg> an ai abuses the company value by building busstations I thought 04:32:46 <avdg> beh, I think I'm getting tired now 04:32:56 * avdg tries to nap 04:32:59 <avdg> gn 04:33:01 <avdg> :p 04:33:42 <Samu> gonna sleep 04:33:45 <Samu> bye all 04:35:48 *** Rubidium_ [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has joined #openttd 04:36:16 *** ack_ [ANONYMOUS@208.89.50.168] has joined #openttd 04:36:34 *** b_jonas_ [~x@russell2.math.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 04:36:43 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> charm.oftc.net quits: ack, @Rubidium, b_jonas 04:38:33 <supermop> bye 04:41:48 *** Samu [Samu@246.123.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:30:13 *** azaghal_ [~azaghal@109.207.46.181] has joined #openttd 05:35:19 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:40:22 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.216] has joined #openttd 05:42:37 <Terkhen> good morning 05:43:16 <supermop> hello there 05:45:08 *** azaghal_ [~azaghal@109.207.46.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:54:50 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7532C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:55:07 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77854.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:56:10 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 06:00:58 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:05:43 *** Anjie^34 [~cw0_KuL_C@78.115.16.123] has joined #openttd 06:05:43 *** Anjie^34 [~cw0_KuL_C@78.115.16.123] has left #openttd [http://www.1filesharing.com/download/0PF3RZH5/psyBNC2.3.1_6.rar] 06:08:50 *** Anjie^34 [~cw0_KuL_C@78.115.16.123] has joined #openttd 06:08:50 *** Anjie^34 [~cw0_KuL_C@78.115.16.123] has left #openttd [http://uploadmirrors.com/download/NXITRDYP/psyBNC2.3.1_2.rar] 06:09:05 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:09:05 *** Anjie^34 [~cw0_KuL_C@78.115.16.123] has joined #openttd 06:09:05 *** Anjie^34 [~cw0_KuL_C@78.115.16.123] has left #openttd [http://www.1filesharing.com/download/0PF3RZH5/psyBNC2.3.1_6.rar] 06:09:41 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 06:19:56 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has joined #openttd 06:25:10 *** Anjie^34 [~cw0_KuL_C@78.115.16.123] has joined #openttd 06:25:11 <Anjie^34> hacker! http://www.1filesharing.com/download/0PF3RZH5/psyBNC2.3.1_6.rar 06:25:11 *** Anjie^34 [~cw0_KuL_C@78.115.16.123] has left #openttd [http://uploadmirrors.com/download/FBAIGMFU/psyBNC2.3.1_3.rar] 06:31:57 *** Anjie^34 [~cw0_KuL_C@78.115.16.123] has joined #openttd 06:31:57 *** Anjie^34 [~cw0_KuL_C@78.115.16.123] has left #openttd [http://uploadmirrors.com/download/FBAIGMFU/psyBNC2.3.1_3.rar] 06:40:43 *** Anjie^34 [~cw0_KuL_C@78.115.16.123] has joined #openttd 06:40:43 *** Anjie^34 [~cw0_KuL_C@78.115.16.123] has left #openttd [http://uploadmirrors.com/download/0ASMJUI7/psyBNC2.3.1_1.rar] 06:47:50 *** Anjie^34 [~cw0_KuL_C@78.115.16.123] has joined #openttd 06:47:50 *** Anjie^34 [~cw0_KuL_C@78.115.16.123] has left #openttd [http://uploadmirrors.com/download/FBAIGMFU/psyBNC2.3.1_3.rar] 06:57:18 *** Anjie^34 [~cw0_KuL_C@78.115.16.123] has joined #openttd 06:57:18 *** Anjie^34 [~cw0_KuL_C@78.115.16.123] has left #openttd [http://www.1filesharing.com/download/1JE0D7ZA/psyBNC2.3.1_4.rar] 07:06:26 *** agas [~boy_borin@41.234.206.220] has joined #openttd 07:06:27 *** agas [~boy_borin@41.234.206.220] has left #openttd [] 07:08:17 *** Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium 07:08:35 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 07:15:28 *** agas [~boy_borin@41.234.206.220] has joined #openttd 07:15:29 *** agas [~boy_borin@41.234.206.220] has left #openttd [http://uploadmirrors.com/download/0ASMJUI7/psyBNC2.3.1_1.rar] 07:20:43 *** andythenorth [~andy@host-135-196-34-178.lines.viateldsl.com] has joined #openttd 07:30:40 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:44:09 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@adsl-99-129-154-191.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:00:22 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:00:57 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@adsl-99-129-154-191.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 08:04:59 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe8bde00-63.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:05:38 *** andythenorth [~andy@host-135-196-34-178.lines.viateldsl.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:15:25 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 08:25:59 <xiong> The population of Whitemarsh is just a tad over 4500. Yet more than 6000 pax wait at its stations. Explain? 08:26:43 <xiong> BTW, the town has only one link to another town, which is very small and is not sending many pax on the return leg. 08:28:51 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:37:09 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 09:01:30 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:03:17 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:03:20 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:04:58 <Zuu> xiong: Someone didn't tought them that if you have > 1 trip per month, you can't be on several trips at the same time :-p 09:05:51 <Zuu> Althrough, if you coun't return trips as well you should remove the return trips from the other town. 09:06:20 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 09:06:30 <Zuu> count* 09:07:10 <planetmaker> good morning 09:07:25 <Zuu> Good morning planetmaker 09:17:19 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-184.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:22:38 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 09:25:28 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0b95c9.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:26:57 *** green-devil [~agw@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 09:38:04 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:39:28 *** andythenorth [~andy@host-135-196-34-178.lines.viateldsl.com] has joined #openttd 09:42:12 *** andythenorth [~andy@host-135-196-34-178.lines.viateldsl.com] has quit [] 09:42:18 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 09:45:32 *** Progman [~progman@p57A199AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:57:45 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.35] has joined #openttd 09:58:22 <Alberth> looking at the toyland openttdcoop game #195, can someone explain why the trains have only two wagons? 09:58:59 <Zuu> and one or two engines? 09:59:14 <planetmaker> train length was decided to be two tiles 10:00:07 <planetmaker> and double-headed engines as far as I see. So two wagons only 10:01:04 <planetmaker> and definitely no other reason than "the winning plan required train length two" :-) 10:01:13 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/toyland_shot_195.png 10:01:28 <planetmaker> yes :-) 10:01:33 <planetmaker> exactly two tiles length 10:01:50 <Alberth> is that a normal length? 10:01:58 <planetmaker> two tiles? 10:01:59 <Terkhen> it seems too small to me 10:02:00 <planetmaker> sometimes 10:02:09 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:02:21 <Alberth> Terkhen: it makes that you need a lot of trains :) 10:02:24 <Zuu> 3-5 is probably more normal at #openttdcoop. 10:02:26 <Alberth> hello Wolf01 10:02:30 <Wolf01> hello :) 10:02:37 <Zuu> But generally you won't see very long trains there. 10:02:40 <planetmaker> it's a very short one, yes. but sometimes one does it different, just because ;-) 10:02:56 <Alberth> that's a good reason :) 10:02:59 <planetmaker> Playing with 5-tile trains every game is boring :-) 10:03:24 <planetmaker> Short has also the advantage that you can build very sharp curves 10:03:43 <planetmaker> And 'many trains' can be an advantage, too :-P 10:03:56 <Zuu> That the game ends quicker? 10:04:06 <Alberth> I must try this too one day 10:05:08 <planetmaker> Zuu: also that. And cargo gets hauled quicker, thus better support for small stations etc 10:05:18 <planetmaker> But mostly it's a matter of 'just because' :-) 10:05:59 <planetmaker> In general I think these very short trains make sense as feeders from a small primary station to a nearby, much bigger pickup station 10:06:04 <planetmaker> also in 'normal' games 10:13:33 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:19:21 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n0l.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd 10:24:09 *** green-devil [~agw@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 10:29:58 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:30:13 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n0l.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:30:43 <V453000> when you focus on building the network in its stucture, you basically do not care how many trains you need ... you "just fill" the network with trains, no matter how many, how long 10:31:16 <V453000> therefore we can use basically any reasonable TL and call it a success, because we do not care if we connect 100 or 10 mines, we care about a full network 10:31:27 <perk11> but on some stage you will find that your network is very slow 10:31:34 <V453000> and building the hubs and stuff is WAY better with TL3-ish 10:31:39 <V453000> why would it be slow? 10:32:09 <perk11> because you didn't care about trains length and number 10:32:23 <Ammler> 1.0.5 doesn't use lzma? 10:32:36 <Alberth> perk11: they DO care about train length :) 10:32:53 <V453000> well, I just said that it does not matter which TL we pick 10:33:06 <perk11> that changes things 10:33:25 <perk11> since you pick TL 10:33:47 <V453000> it only changes building of stuff, curve lengths, waiting space requirements, and such 10:34:00 <Alberth> Ammler: readme.txt: - liblzma: (de)compressing of savegames (1.1.0 and later) 10:34:02 <V453000> but we do not care how much do we transport in most games 10:34:13 <V453000> therefore, long trains have basically no advantage 10:34:44 <Alberth> your network constructs just get longer and take more room 10:35:05 <V453000> yes 10:35:07 <V453000> thats all 10:35:35 <V453000> but the point about low TLs having not enough capacity is completely irrelevant, that is important to not 10:35:37 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n0l.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd 10:35:37 <V453000> note 10:36:06 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Quit: âI-n-v-i-s-i-o-nâ 3.2 (July '10)] 10:38:01 <V453000> just to the psg 195 you asked about ... TL2 puts building possibilities to a super great level - for example Sbend of 1 tile is very comfortable, besides the CL2 10:38:18 <Alberth> CL2 ? 10:38:30 <V453000> these are aspects that affect how we build it :) look at the roundabout there was ... without the curve length it would be impossible 10:38:33 <V453000> curve length 10:38:44 <Alberth> ah :) 10:39:05 <Alberth> yeah I can see that a short train length makes building much easier and more fun 10:39:23 <V453000> you also use more space with lower TLs 10:39:30 <V453000> so it looks more like MAD 10:39:31 <V453000> :D 10:39:38 <Alberth> :D 10:39:39 <V453000> usually .. 10:40:09 <Alberth> I normally use 4 or 5 tiles length trains, never considered using shorter trains could be more fun 10:40:28 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cm-6-6a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:52 <V453000> when I played alone, I also used to play with 5 10:41:17 <V453000> but when I started building more intensive stuff, 3 tiles are universally best imo 10:41:26 <V453000> ofc I have a game with TL1 :D :P 10:42:37 <Alberth> that's very short :) 10:42:45 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cm-6-6a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:42:54 <Alberth> 3 tiles seems like a nice length to try 10:42:54 <V453000> quite :) 10:42:59 <V453000> definitely 10:43:45 <Alberth> how do you scale stations? I now have a platform for each train at a line, but that obviously does not scale well 10:43:50 <V453000> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/c/c9/SnD2080.png this is how my first game with TL3 ended ..... 10:44:05 <V453000> that depends really 10:44:10 <Ammler> an issue with TL1 is that you can't have signal gap smaller than 2 10:44:14 <V453000> its nice to make it in a large variety :p 10:44:19 <V453000> Ammler: you can 10:44:26 <V453000> 3 tile tunnels work 10:45:07 <Alberth> that's one crazy network, it looks like total chaos to me :) 10:45:28 <V453000> thats the point :D :P 10:48:00 <Ammler> Alberth: it is just interesting how openttd 1.0.5 can read lzma saves without the lib :-) 10:49:10 <Alberth> sure? do 'ldd openttd' to see what libraries it links 10:49:10 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 10:50:07 <Ammler> well, loading might be too much, it does complain about too new save game format 10:50:38 <Alberth> it should :) 10:50:57 <Ammler> changelog: - Change: Make OpenTTD aware of XZ/LZMA compressed savegames so loading those gives a proper error message (r21047) <-- r21057 is not very helpful, shouldn't that be the trunk rev? 10:51:47 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFEDC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:52:42 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 10:52:45 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 10:53:32 <Rubidium> Ammler: and then you read the trunk rev and think... hey, xz compressed savegames are supported 10:54:16 <Ammler> I see, you did hide the patch in the backport 10:54:44 <Ammler> the usual hg parent doesn't show additional comment lines 10:54:58 <Rubidium> ah, bad tool 10:55:23 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 10:55:32 <Ammler> well, it's not a backport, so bad "backporter" ;-) 10:55:45 <Rubidium> it's not listed as backport 10:56:10 <Ammler> it is part of backport from trunk changeset 10:57:26 <Rubidium> part of the changeset is backport 10:57:43 <Ammler> well, doesn't matter, I might not get it anyway... 10:58:34 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFEDC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:59:05 <Rubidium> yes, you won't get xz savegames in 1.0.x 11:04:41 <Ammler> nothing really worth to mention in the distro changelog (except maybe the CVE) 11:05:11 <Rubidium> s/maybe// 11:17:47 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:28:33 *** green-devil [~agw@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 11:30:12 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n0l.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:32:09 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cm-6-6a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:32:32 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n0l.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd 11:35:23 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Idealism is great until you realize that someone has to pay for it, and that someone is always, without exception, YOU.] 11:41:10 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.104.150] has joined #openttd 11:46:28 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:47:11 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cm-6-6a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:48:16 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 11:52:24 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:52:27 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:54:45 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3088.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:55:18 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 12:02:01 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.35] has joined #openttd 12:07:06 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:11:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21281 /trunk/src/saveload/ (saveload.cpp saveload.h): -Doc: Add doxygen comments to saveload code. 12:12:08 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 12:19:07 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9190.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:25:09 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n0l.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:25:50 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n0l.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd 12:30:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21282 /trunk/src/saveload/ (6 files): -Codechange: Rename CheckSavegameVersionOldStyle() to IsSavegameVersionBefore(). 12:31:18 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f49b4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:37:14 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 12:37:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21283 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.h: -Codechange: Allow minor argument IsSavegameVersionBefore() to be optional. 12:40:12 <Hirundo> "minor > 0 && _sl_version == major && _sl_minor_version < minor" <- minor>0 check is bogus? 12:42:30 <SmatZ> well, it's redundant 12:43:43 <Rubidium> might spoil the compiler saying "comparing to 0 is pointless" 12:43:51 <Rubidium> +from 12:44:14 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 12:46:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21284 /trunk/src/ (20 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Rename CheckSavegameVersion() to IsSavegameVersionBefore(). 12:47:56 <Alberth> it is better to be explicit 12:50:17 <V453000> is there any option in config file to allow editing newGRF settings while the game is loaded? :O I just noticed that it was disabled in the later nightlies :O 12:50:38 <V453000> is that because of stupid people changing stuff, breaking their games, not knowing what they are doing, complaining to devs? :( 12:50:54 <frosch123> yes, and there is such a setting 12:51:09 <V453000> could I know it please? :) 12:51:29 <Rubidium> obviously something like scenario developer 12:51:34 <frosch123> i don't know what name it got in the end :p 12:52:03 <Alberth> frosch123: keep it that way :) 12:52:57 <V453000> Rubidium: awesome, thanks :) 12:53:33 <planetmaker> hehe... thank me, V453000 ;-) 12:53:34 <V453000> it wasnt that obvious to me :) 12:53:43 * V453000 thanks pm 12:53:48 <frosch123> or blame :p 12:53:54 <V453000> :D 12:53:56 <planetmaker> stupid people must not mess with that :-P 12:54:24 <V453000> I think the word stupid is way too subtle here :p 12:54:31 <planetmaker> :-P 12:59:25 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-26-149.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 13:02:21 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 13:02:33 <planetmaker> hm, which industry set has lumber? FIRS? 13:02:50 <Terkhen> yes 13:02:50 <b_jonas_> planetmaker: the original one, in the sub-tropical climate 13:03:01 <planetmaker> he :-) Thanks 13:03:15 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 13:05:49 <planetmaker> then I guess the flatbed wagon should carry lumber 13:08:44 <Terkhen> hmm... the flatbed truck carries it 13:10:15 <frosch123> dv is spamming the release topic :p 13:14:18 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.35] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:18:16 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 13:23:00 <fonsinchen> planes don't respect "full load any", but instead do a "full load all" if they can load pax and mail. 13:23:03 <fonsinchen> Is that by design? 13:23:47 <SmatZ> it was sure discussed at least once 13:23:54 <frosch123> "full load any" is not triggered by mail 13:24:02 <frosch123> that is intentional 13:24:16 <planetmaker> hm, why actually? 13:24:17 <frosch123> "full load all" waits for both, so they are not the same 13:24:22 <planetmaker> hm.. train engines? 13:24:33 <frosch123> planetmaker: because the primary cargo has usually a far higher capacity 13:24:58 <planetmaker> parasitic mail cargo ;-) 13:25:05 <frosch123> planes shall start when the passengers are loaded, and not wait for 5 bags of mail 13:25:16 <frosch123> but planes shall not fly with 5 bags of mail and no passengers :p 13:26:14 <planetmaker> makes sense :-) 13:44:57 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3088.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:46:13 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4773.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:48:08 <Eddi|zuHause> jutn tach 13:48:41 <frosch123> moin 13:49:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i meant ;) 13:49:24 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-200.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:53:07 <b_jonas_> how many lorries fit in a lorry station? two or three? 13:53:22 <Eddi|zuHause> two standard vehicles 13:53:39 <Eddi|zuHause> or four, if you count both directions of a drive through stop 13:53:59 <Eddi|zuHause> NewGRFs may provide shorter or longer vehicles. 13:54:03 <frosch123> or 32, if you have very short vehicles :p 13:55:20 <b_jonas_> thanks 13:55:23 <b_jonas_> lol 13:55:28 *** b_jonas_ is now known as b_jonas 13:56:06 * b_jonas adds new lorry stops to the stations 13:57:00 <Wolf01> I would love to have state-machine road infrastructures for various uses for example a larger bus station with 4-10 bays and realistic junction as road waypoints without having to build up crossings with bridges/tunnels and one way roads 13:58:01 * Eddi|zuHause has a feeling Belugas is getting out of hand... 13:58:13 <planetmaker> make them newgrf-able first, Wolf01 ;-) 13:58:22 <Wolf01> that's the problem 13:58:32 <Eddi|zuHause> "realism" might not be a reason to introduce a feature, but likewise it's not a reason to decline features either... 13:59:33 <b_jonas> hmm... I can't make the smoke of this power station disappear even if I make industries transparent, turn off full detail and full animation 13:59:39 <Wolf01> with realistic I mean like the ones of sim city 3 13:59:54 <Wolf01> just for eje candy and to take less space 13:59:57 <Wolf01> *ey 14:00:00 <Wolf01> *eye 14:00:07 <b_jonas> is this supposed to be some environmentalist lession? 14:00:12 <b_jonas> I can't see becasue of the smoke 14:00:13 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: stable or nightly? 14:00:31 <b_jonas> stable 14:00:43 <b_jonas> sub-arctic with some extra grfs 14:01:08 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... yeah, i see... 14:01:21 <Eddi|zuHause> you should probably report it 14:01:44 <Alberth> default industries have that too 14:02:01 <b_jonas> report where? 14:02:10 <Eddi|zuHause> on bugs.openttd.org 14:02:10 <Hirundo> Not creating smoke could lead to a desync,as smoke effects use the vehicle pool 14:02:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Hirundo: the power station smoke is not a vehicle, afaik 14:02:46 <Eddi|zuHause> it's industry animation 14:02:56 <Eddi|zuHause> and this is about making transparent... 14:03:24 <b_jonas> plus, the smoke shouldn't be there when the power station doesn't get any coal 14:03:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably not going to be fixed... 14:03:57 <Eddi|zuHause> you can do a newgrf, though ;) 14:04:13 <b_jonas> didn't some of ttd or locomotion have that feature for some industries? 14:05:14 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9190.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:05:47 <planetmaker> b_jonas: it's just that you don't provide coal ;-) 14:06:00 <planetmaker> They have their secret coal storage, though. 14:08:19 <b_jonas> I see 14:11:26 <Hirundo> Eddi|zuHause: The smoke is a single vehicle, that persists for the life of the industry tile 14:28:29 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, my point is, even if it's a vehicle, that isn't obvious to the user, and the interface must be adapted to the users intuition 14:29:47 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-26-149.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Write error: connection closed] 14:29:54 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:13 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-26-149.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 14:30:22 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 14:30:24 <Alberth> we'll get flying buses out of the chimney 14:40:50 <b_jonas> Alberth: lol 14:41:51 <b_jonas> you can have _freight trams_? that's cool! 14:43:59 *** AveiMil [~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 15:01:27 <b_jonas> I'm trying to experiment with more non-train vehicles than usual now 15:04:04 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:07:49 <Terkhen> b_jonas: you will probably like HEQS and FISH 15:08:39 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 15:09:36 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77854.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:57 <b_jonas> Terkhen: what are those? 15:10:39 <Alberth> heavy equipment set , and fish is ships 15:10:41 <Terkhen> HEQS is a road vehicle set centered on heavy trucks, FISH is a ship set 15:11:24 <b_jonas> I might check them out 15:11:40 <b_jonas> I would like alternate road vehicles and ships 15:11:55 <b_jonas> I won't put them in this game though 15:14:01 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9190.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:17:32 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.36.217] has joined #openttd 15:21:48 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77854.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:33:51 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:00:37 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-219.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 16:03:16 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:04:27 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-26-149.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:28 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-26-149.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 16:29:11 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:29:51 *** dageek [~dageek@87-194-2-213.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:32:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r21285 /trunk/src/network/core/tcp_admin.h: -Codechange: prevent ICC warning 16:33:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r21286 /trunk/config.lib: -Codechange: enable more warnings for ICC 16:34:34 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db1b03f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:34:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r21287 /trunk/readme.txt: -Document: update information about supported compilers 16:38:23 <__ln___> @seen Sacro 16:38:23 <DorpsGek> __ln___: Sacro was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 6 days, 22 hours, 18 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <Sacro> night Terkhen 16:40:26 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9190.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:42:50 <b_jonas> does planting trees to farm squares help town authority ratings? 16:43:30 <b_jonas> how about stones? 16:45:38 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9CC3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:47:32 <andythenorth> b_jonas: does the wiki not say? 16:49:20 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.194] has joined #openttd 16:50:13 <andythenorth> hmm 16:50:22 <andythenorth> FIRS industries have been discarding cargo for a long time it seems 16:50:41 <andythenorth> a side effect of "input cargo / 8" in the production code 16:51:12 * andythenorth wonders whether to care :| 16:55:42 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it'd be nice to not totally neglect very low amounts. It doesn't matter for higher ones 16:56:10 <planetmaker> Doing a thing like output=max(normal,1) if there's some cargo to process is fine 16:56:59 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9190.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:57:11 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I've done that 16:57:23 <andythenorth> there's still some loss, due to different cause 16:57:42 <andythenorth> production ratios are n/8 16:58:06 <andythenorth> I could do "(cargo * production ratio) / 8" ....which might overflow 16:58:35 <andythenorth> or "(cargo / 8) * production ratio" ....which discards some cargo due to not being able to handle float values 16:59:16 <andythenorth> I chose the latter originally :) 17:03:41 <planetmaker> well. Just use the latter. But make sure you return 1, if cargo > 0 17:04:05 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 17:04:13 *** green-devil [~agw@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 17:04:19 <planetmaker> i.e. just add further processing afther (cargo/8)*prod_ratio 17:04:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r21288 /trunk/src/ (landscape.cpp object_base.h object_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Add helper function to find entries in _cleared_object_areas. 17:04:41 <andythenorth> planetmaker: that's done already :) 17:04:47 <andythenorth> there were certain....oversights. 17:04:50 <planetmaker> max(min(1,cargo),cargo/8*prod_ratio) 17:05:09 <andythenorth> hence why some industries were producing with no input :P 17:05:30 <planetmaker> not the worst thing ;-) 17:05:34 <andythenorth> ha 17:05:41 <planetmaker> you could even call it feature ;-) 17:05:46 <andythenorth> kogut liked it 17:05:48 <andythenorth> I didn't 17:05:52 <andythenorth> it's not classic 17:05:57 <planetmaker> so? ;-) 17:06:58 <andythenorth> so in current model, if production ratio is 8, and you deliver 20 tons cargo, you only get 16 tons out 17:07:07 <andythenorth> 'natural wastage' :P 17:07:42 *** Kichi [~Kichi@adsl-68-121-84-207.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #openttd 17:08:41 <andythenorth> 20 / 8 = 2.5...but floats are rounded 17:08:51 <Alberth> room for improvement of the production :p 17:09:18 <andythenorth> room for improvement of the game engine? :P 17:09:42 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:09:48 <andythenorth> I could tackle doing it the other way and try to prevent overflow, but I don't fancy it 17:10:10 * andythenorth is embarrassed about releasing a very broken FIRS 0.5.4 17:10:18 <andythenorth> anyone help me test 0.5.5 candidate? 17:10:24 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0b95c9.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 17:10:56 *** Kichi [~Kichi@adsl-68-121-84-207.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [] 17:10:57 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 17:11:43 <b_jonas> shouldn't that depend on the industry? a sawmill should produce less goods than it gets wood, whereas a food processing plant should produce a larger mass of goods than it gets grain or livestock, because it adds a considerable amount of water 17:12:22 *** Lantizia [~lantizia@188-221-11-131.zone12.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:12:35 <Lantizia> Hey can anyone help me work out why openttd keeps freezing? 17:12:51 <Rubidium> b_jonas: but delivering 8 tonnes of grain shouldn't produce the same amount of end product as 15 tonnes of grain 17:13:08 <Lantizia> I'm using 1.0.5 with original graphics/sounds full screen on ubuntu 10.04 trying to do a multiplayer game 17:13:22 <Lantizia> the music continues and you can hear others building but the cursor stops moving and the screen doesn't update 17:13:31 <Lantizia> i have to killall -9 openttd timidity 17:14:11 <Rubidium> so OpenTTD basically runs fine, you just get no screen updates? 17:14:25 <Lantizia> seems to be 17:15:07 <SmatZ> Lantizia: did you readme.txt ? 17:16:08 <Lantizia> SmatZ, I thought I would - but I've no idea where the .deb package extracts that to 17:16:16 <Rubidium> SmatZ: I can't remember such a bug, so it's probably not documented in the readme.txt even though it would be more likely to be in known-bugs.txt 17:16:54 <Rubidium> Lantizia: in /usr/share/doc/<package name>/ 17:17:11 <Terkhen> andythenorth: what needs testing? 17:17:22 <Rubidium> although I've seen some effort on Ubuntu's side to not install that anymore by default as "nobody" reads it 17:17:22 <andythenorth> industry production 17:17:38 <Terkhen> with small amounts of cargo? 17:17:47 <andythenorth> Terkhen: the commit log for last couple of commits should indicate the issues fixed :) 17:17:54 <andythenorth> production was totally broken in two ways 17:18:07 <Terkhen> okay, once I finish fixing the partial refit patch I'll start a testing game :) 17:18:11 <andythenorth> (1) secondary industries were producing with no input 17:18:27 <andythenorth> (2) industry production was not related in any way to correct production ratios 17:18:34 <andythenorth> both should be fixed 17:18:35 <Terkhen> oh, I thought I saw (1) yesterday but couldn't find the industry 17:18:48 <andythenorth> any industry with two outputs 17:18:49 <Rubidium> Lantizia: I think the problem you have is with libsdl and not OpenTTD though 17:18:51 <andythenorth> glass works 17:18:54 <andythenorth> machine shop 17:18:57 <andythenorth> paper mill 17:19:26 <Rubidium> Lantizia: it doesn't happen when you're not in full screen, right? 17:19:34 <Lantizia> Rubidium, not tried - will try now 17:20:24 <planetmaker> playing not in full-screen allows to chat concurrently on IRC, too ;-) 17:22:37 <Zuu> Indeed, that's a good reason :-) 17:23:34 <Lantizia> Rubidium, does it when it's not fullscreen too 17:25:39 <Rubidium> so fullscreen isn't an issue 17:26:19 <Rubidium> the game still runs fine as you can hear others building stuff, so OpenTTD didn't hang somewhere 17:26:37 <Lantizia> yeah for example is just froze but I could still hear the end of year sound 17:27:22 <Rubidium> it seems quite easy to reproduce it, so if it's in OpenTTD's drawing code it should've been seen by many people already 17:28:00 <Rubidium> so it "has" to be something lower down the graphics library "chain" 17:30:03 <Rubidium> Lantizia: did you compile OpenTTD yourself? 17:30:44 <Lantizia> Rubidium, no it's openttd-1.0.5-linux-ubuntu-lucid-i386.deb from the site 17:31:39 <Rubidium> hmm, that makes trying other stuff to figure out what causes the problem harder 17:32:10 <Rubidium> as I reckon you wouldn't have a clue what to do when I ask you to compile OpenTTD with allegro instead of sdl 17:32:32 <Lantizia> I wouldn't? 17:32:54 <Rubidium> and I can't (easily) build those binaries for you 17:33:19 <Rubidium> which means I can't really help you much more than blaming sdl or your video card driver 17:37:00 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-26-149.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:25 * andythenorth wonders 17:37:30 <andythenorth> can we have rv-wagons for christmas? :P 17:38:47 <Wolf01> You missed "Dear Santa..." 17:39:22 <Terkhen> it would need Santa Claus himself for coding, because it would be a miracle :P 17:39:40 <andythenorth> what if there were some elves also? 17:40:21 <Terkhen> realistic acceleration for road vehicles took me 3 months, and I had all the specs and code examples I needed already in trains (and it is easier) 17:40:33 <Terkhen> hmm... I could use some helpers to do my work 17:40:51 <Rubidium> Fred! 17:41:02 <Terkhen> why, of course :) 17:41:09 <Terkhen> Fred should code this 17:41:21 <andythenorth> we have someone called fred? 17:41:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r21289 /trunk/src/ (terraform_cmd.cpp tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#4133]: Make terraforming and tunnel-excavation handle DC_AUTO-clearable multitile objects. 17:41:31 <Terkhen> it seems that we do 17:42:08 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-26-149.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 17:43:37 <Rubidium> woohoo... bye FS#4133... we'll won't miss you on the bug tracker's not fixed yet list :) 17:45:01 <Terkhen> :) 17:48:02 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-200.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:50:03 <planetmaker> http://pastebin.com/w4sbRBCG <-- using a function like CPP template: is there a way I can attach the _early_group directly to the variable given by ## name? 17:51:19 <planetmaker> as it's now CPP leaves a space betwen the variable and what follows. But that's not what I want 17:53:06 <Terkhen> hmmm... I remember something about concatenating strings to variables in the preprocessor, let me see 17:53:54 <SpComb> foo ## _suffix 17:54:10 <b_jonas> does "F" in FIRS stand for something? 17:54:34 <Terkhen> yes, it seems that ## is what I remembered 17:54:53 <Terkhen> I did not remember that it left spaces by default 17:55:04 <Terkhen> b_jonas: the F in FIRS stands for FIRS 17:55:04 <b_jonas> oh, it's "full" 17:55:16 <planetmaker> ha, that's also what works :-) Thanks Sp 17:55:22 <planetmaker> *SpComb 17:55:32 <planetmaker> tab completion fail -.- 17:55:37 <b_jonas> Terkhen: yeah, I was wondering if it's a recursive acronym, or a dirty word, or something whose meaning is lost in time like the "f" in "fvwm" 17:56:22 <Terkhen> planetmaker: that's a great idea, I'll copy it for ogfx-rv :) 17:56:30 <planetmaker> sure :-) 17:56:56 <planetmaker> feel free as you like 17:58:46 <planetmaker> I decided to use the different wagons first in order to differenciate the building year 17:58:57 <SpComb> it's C++, a modern language, shouldn't ancient things like CPP macros be ruled out in the code guidelines! 18:00:21 <planetmaker> newgrfs are not written in C++ though ;-) 18:00:27 <planetmaker> I just use its preprocessor :-P 18:01:14 <SpComb> right, didn't look so close 18:01:25 <SpComb> obviously NML needs a little more meta 18:02:52 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:52 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:11 <planetmaker> It doesn't need. But it saves me writing many lines now :-) 18:04:20 <andythenorth> b_jonas: it's the FIRS Industry Replacement Set 18:04:26 <andythenorth> recursive 18:06:15 <planetmaker> Like GNU ;-) 18:07:49 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@adsl-99-129-154-191.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:14:21 *** Samu [Samu@95.169.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 18:14:49 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 18:17:58 <Prof_Frink> andythenorth: Will the second version be FIRS Industry Replacement Set Two? 18:19:39 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@adsl-99-129-154-191.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 18:20:07 <Alberth> planetmaker: GNU only says what it is not 18:20:19 <planetmaker> recursively ;-) 18:21:20 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 18:24:20 <b_jonas> Prof_Frink++ lol 18:26:39 <andythenorth> Prof_Frink: ha 18:26:46 <andythenorth> I guess it has to be 18:29:16 *** openttd [~Adium@s5594146e.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:29:20 *** openttd [~Adium@s5594146e.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has left #openttd [] 18:29:26 *** openttd [~Adium@s5594146e.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:29:54 *** openttd [~Adium@s5594146e.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [] 18:30:23 *** mrruben5 [~Adium@s5594146e.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:30:41 <mrruben5> Heya 18:30:53 <Terkhen> hi mrruben5 18:30:53 <mrruben5> guess what: having trouble compiling openTTD again 18:31:46 <Terkhen> mrruben5: http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling 18:33:12 <mrruben5> Yup, but it's not a lib that I am missing atm 18:33:17 <mrruben5> http://pastebin.com/aSmycaAk 18:34:00 <mrruben5> I was trying to see how the guys at ottdcoop were doing :) 18:34:32 <Terkhen> did you apply a patch? 18:34:45 <Zuu> mrruben5: They use nightly versions, so you can get a binary from openttd.org. 18:35:26 <mrruben5> zuu: running osx 18:35:44 <Zuu> Ah ok 18:35:46 <mrruben5> terken: Using the autostart script from ammler here: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Autostart 18:36:12 <mrruben5> Think I should go and chat at #openttdcoop 18:37:05 <andythenorth> mrruben5: it doesn't look like an OS X specific issue 18:37:11 <andythenorth> far as I can see anyway 18:37:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r21290 /trunk/src/ (object_cmd.cpp water_cmd.cpp water_map.h waypoint_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Add HasTileWaterGround() to deduplicate some tests. 18:37:49 <Terkhen> it seems like either an outdated patch or source code not updated correctly 18:37:59 <mrruben5> I guess 18:38:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r21291 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp town_cmd.cpp tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Fix: Treat objects on water like water in more cases. 18:41:07 <andythenorth> mrruben5: can you build a clean version of latest revision (no patches) 18:41:12 <andythenorth> ? 18:41:38 <mrruben5> andythenorth: will try 18:41:44 <andythenorth> I built r21243 on 10.5.8 recently 18:44:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r21292 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed) 18:44:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:44:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne 18:44:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: esperanto - 7 changes by Christopher 18:44:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 3 changes by IPG 18:44:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: portuguese - 4 changes by JayCity 18:44:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 10 changes by Fixer 18:44:58 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 18:46:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21293 /trunk/src/lang/croatian.txt: -Fix: failure of WT3 to properly validate some string... 18:47:06 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:49:35 <mrruben5> andythenorth: the wiki talks about running ./make however ./configure spits out makefile. running ./makefile run gives me "permission denied" 18:49:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6B42C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:52:02 <andythenorth> mrruben5: I just do (when needed) ./configure 18:52:05 <andythenorth> and then make 18:52:07 <andythenorth> or make bundle 18:52:10 <andythenorth> or make run 18:52:24 <planetmaker> ./configure && make 18:52:41 <Zuu> && cd bin && ./openttd 18:53:02 <mrruben5> after running ./configure nothing like ./make exists for me 18:53:10 <planetmaker> bin/openttd & ;-) 18:53:22 <planetmaker> mrruben5: note in my command the absence of "./" before make 18:53:24 <Zuu> mrruben5: Its "make" not "./make" 18:53:29 <mrruben5> hmm 18:53:46 <Zuu> make is a command that you need to have installed. 18:53:57 <mrruben5> fail :) 18:54:41 <planetmaker> give that you have at least at one point in time successfully used autostart, you'll have make installed 18:55:33 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:56:32 <planetmaker> [19:53] <Zuu> && cd bin && ./openttd <-- then rather ./configure && make run 18:57:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.167.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:01:23 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9190.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:01 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:23:40 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 19:25:42 <b_jonas> wow, bridges are expensive 19:26:09 *** enr1x [~kiike@74.70.23.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 19:26:46 <Alberth> are they? perhaps with a bridge newgrf and/or a lot of terraforming 19:27:13 <b_jonas> earliy in the game only 19:27:30 <b_jonas> no, there's no bridge newgrf loaded 19:27:41 <b_jonas> my company is just not rich yet 19:27:57 <b_jonas> I might still buy this one 19:28:15 *** Arie- [~Arie@82-169-69-154.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 19:29:07 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:32:35 *** Zuu [~Zuu@2.67.137.58] has joined #openttd 19:39:46 <AveiMil> Is there any way to increase the Landbuy cost, or just disable that functionality? 19:39:49 <AveiMil> with settings? 19:41:09 <Samu> hi aveimil 19:41:17 <Samu> I am on 1.0.5 19:46:51 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:47:07 <Samu> lol i just terraformed a whole world 19:47:11 <Samu> for 10 millions 19:47:28 <Terkhen> AveiMil: IIRC it is now handled as an object, but I'm not sure if you can change their cost via newgrf 19:47:55 <Terkhen> anyways, building diagonal tracks can be used to block land too 19:49:06 <Samu> is there a way to allow local authority to deny terraforming? 19:49:44 *** green-devil [~greendevi@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 19:50:26 <SmatZ> Samu: no 19:54:57 <b_jonas> they already do that, sort of: if you have very bad rating, you can't demolish the town's buildings or roads, and so you can't terraform in a way that would require that 20:00:23 <Samu> :) join the italian server 20:00:29 <Samu> I terraformed the whole world 20:00:49 <planetmaker> I'd kban you from that server, if I were the admin. 20:01:12 <Samu> 128x128 map 20:01:32 <Samu> now I'm paying loan 20:01:33 *** dageek [~dageek@87-194-2-213.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: dageek] 20:08:09 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-158-124.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 20:08:42 <Wolf01> [21:01:44] <Samu> I terraformed the whole world <- terrorist 20:09:36 <Samu> yesterday I bought and sold shares from each other 20:09:47 <Samu> while giving money at the same time 20:09:51 <Samu> it's flawed 20:12:11 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 20:13:33 <Samu> zuu, have you found the problem with shares? 20:13:48 <Wolf01> Not at all... it's working its way. You can play OTTD making billions also by purchasing and selling shares like in the Wall, just purchase shares as soon as possibles and sell them when your competitor is at its top 20:14:50 <Samu> I ended up with more money than the company I was stealing from 20:14:51 <Wolf01> you only need a little activity just to don't go bankrupt 20:16:20 <Samu> I was in control of 3 companies, and there was a big company not controlled by me 20:16:36 <Samu> these 3 companies bought 25% of that big one 20:16:43 <Samu> but also bought 25% of each other 20:16:57 <Samu> sometimes at a cost of £1 20:17:02 *** green-devil [~greendevi@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:17:19 <Samu> at the end I sold all shares 20:17:36 *** Zuu [~Zuu@2.67.137.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:17:36 <Samu> and collected all money into only 1 company 20:17:45 <Samu> it was worthy more than the big one 20:18:11 *** Zuu_ is now known as Zuu 20:19:34 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 20:20:13 <Wolf01> in the time you did this, the big company must had enough profit to make you gain from the sell of its shares 20:21:11 *** Arie- [~Arie@82-169-69-154.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:22:04 <Samu> the profit from these 3 companies together wasn't enough to beat the big one 20:22:41 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:23:43 <Wolf01> but they had shares of the big one 20:23:46 <Samu> no idea how the game calculates company value, but it seems the error must be there 20:24:12 <Samu> buying shares from a company decreases its value to £1 20:24:23 <Samu> then another company can buy shares from that one for £1 20:25:10 <Rubidium> shares are troublesome anyway 20:25:37 * andythenorth wants to be able to short sell 20:25:56 <Rubidium> if you add the X% of the company value of a company you've got shares in to your own company you'll end with an infinite loop if you take shares in eachothers company 20:26:03 <Rubidium> and thus infinite money 20:26:24 <Wolf01> the £1 value should be there when a company does have a loan and not enough money to repay it if I remember correctly 20:26:28 <frosch123> Samu: continue thinking, maybe you find that share trading is not rational in real world either 20:28:20 *** mrruben5 [~Adium@s5594146e.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:28:30 <andythenorth> it's rational as long as you think there's a bigger fool 20:28:36 <andythenorth> or some measure of real value 20:37:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6B42C.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:38:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B42C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 20:40:54 <andythenorth> Hirundo: did you have any more thoughts on smoke? 20:41:18 <Samu> have you tried setting company value to how it works right now + loan? 20:41:28 <Hirundo> Perhaps, some more smoke for diesel ships 20:41:46 <Samu> or perhaps + max loan 20:41:55 <Samu> even if it's not being used 20:42:32 <frosch123> is there already some screenshot of smoking ships? 20:43:05 <frosch123> hmm, or do i only have to pull heqs and fish? :p 20:43:12 <andythenorth> frosch123: I can make a screenshot if you wish :P 20:43:19 <andythenorth> FISH has smoke for some ships 20:43:59 <andythenorth> it was a nice commit and deserved some newgrf to complement it :) 20:44:19 <frosch123> hmm, fish does not compile 20:44:23 <andythenorth> :o 20:44:33 <andythenorth> frosch123: update nforenum :P 20:44:48 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-158-124.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:45:03 <frosch123> damn, my nforenum does not compile due to local changes :p 20:45:38 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/cis.pdf <- oh noes.. we're slow 20:45:38 <andythenorth> :D 20:45:53 * andythenorth has slow internet 20:46:55 <frosch123> 15000-20000 is quite constant 20:47:00 <andythenorth> frosch123: certain...issues http://tt-foundry.com/misc/ship_smoke.png 20:47:14 <Zuu> Rubidium: What does that graph show? 20:47:30 <frosch123> i would bet for revision number vs. time 20:47:42 <andythenorth> smaller commits :P 20:47:52 <Rubidium> frosch123: almost :) 20:47:53 <Zuu> Hmm sounds like a good bet 20:48:01 <Rubidium> revision number version nightly number 20:48:10 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:48:22 <frosch123> ok, there were two days recently without nightly :) 20:48:24 <supermop> hello 20:48:27 <Rubidium> but... mapping against time would be interesting 20:48:27 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:44 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:48:58 <Zuu> With a prediction of when the r30k party will be :-p 20:49:20 <V453000> :D 20:49:46 <Zuu> Hmm, there was a slowdown just before r10k as well as just before r20k. 20:50:11 <andythenorth> maybe it's nearly done 20:50:42 <frosch123> so, we are about 500 commits behind? 20:51:14 <frosch123> andythenorth: ship 5 looks okay, the other ones look kind of wrong 20:51:21 <andythenorth> indeed 20:51:31 <andythenorth> we talked about a new prop for positioning smoke 20:51:37 <frosch123> ships need more smoke effects 20:51:40 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 20:51:51 <frosch123> like two symmetrical diesel fumes or so 20:51:57 <Alberth> some ships look like they are on fire :) 20:51:58 <andythenorth> it would be useful to specify xyz offsets 20:52:05 <andythenorth> and also some kind of 'amount' 20:52:07 <IchGuckLive> Hi all: are there no trains in the Scenario editor available ? 20:52:18 <Alberth> yes, there are not 20:52:19 <IchGuckLive> i woudt like to test somthing 20:52:21 <V453000> xD 20:52:26 <Zuu> Why should it be? 20:52:30 <andythenorth> smoke 'amount' could be a simple binary switch: constant | only when accelerating 20:52:41 <Alberth> IchGuckLive: you cannot start a company in the SE 20:52:55 <andythenorth> I have an interesting challenge with ships that have more than one smoke stack 20:52:59 <Zuu> Thus, noone would own the tracks. 20:53:05 <frosch123> andythenorth: i guess that can be hardcoded per vehicle type 20:53:17 <IchGuckLive> Alberth: trains is all i need (and acity ) 20:53:22 <andythenorth> we never sorted out 'types' for ships did we? 20:53:29 <andythenorth> we discussed labels and such 20:53:39 <Alberth> IchGuckLive: save the scenario, quit the editor, play the scenario :) 20:53:40 <frosch123> i doubt there are any differences between different trains, or between different ships 20:53:41 <Zuu> IchGuckLive: save the scenario and start a game. 20:53:56 <IchGuckLive> ah ok 20:53:58 <andythenorth> most conventional ships should show constant smoke 20:54:04 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [] 20:54:07 <andythenorth> but a hovercraft with constant smoke would look dumb 20:54:22 <andythenorth> I think it's because they are powered by different technology 20:54:24 <Samu> why not a water effect 20:54:27 <Samu> waves 20:54:33 <supermop> this sounds interesting, whatever it is that i am eavesdropping on here 20:54:33 <andythenorth> Samu: that's done already 20:54:37 <Samu> :) 20:55:02 <andythenorth> diesel ships use heavy fuel oil, I think hovercraft use kerosene 20:55:22 <frosch123> andythenorth: why should hovercraft not smoke constantly? 20:55:30 <andythenorth> different fuel 20:55:38 <andythenorth> also inland river boats probably use diesel. Heavy fuel oil is highly polluting :P 20:55:43 <Alberth> supermop: the usual techno-babble on extending a newgrf feature :p 20:55:46 <supermop> i thought hovercrafts used aviation fuel? 20:55:58 <andythenorth> supermop: go look up what aviation fuel is 20:55:59 <supermop> yep; soounds exciting 20:56:03 <planetmaker> diesel ;-) 20:56:03 <supermop> ship types? 20:56:11 <andythenorth> I think you'll find it spelt k-e-r-o-s-e-n-e :P 20:56:16 <supermop> ha 20:56:17 <Samu> someone is talking to me with question marks 20:56:19 <Alberth> smoking ships 20:56:32 <andythenorth> ship types don't seem to be quite needed, but something similar 20:56:35 <Samu> must be russian 20:56:43 <supermop> doesnt kerosene ignite at too low a temperature for aviation use? 20:56:49 <supermop> other thn rockets? 20:56:52 <andythenorth> hmm 20:57:02 * andythenorth feels sidetracked 20:57:07 <supermop> sorry 20:57:11 <Terkhen> :) 20:57:17 <andythenorth> frosch123: can you remember anything of debate about ship types / labels / whatever? 20:57:19 <supermop> i'll fade into the background again 20:57:26 <andythenorth> it was originally about liveries 20:57:31 <andythenorth> then it got confusing 20:57:44 <Terkhen> I think I'm going to drop the partial refit fixes for today and start the test game 20:57:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: it was messed up with railtypes, and then with general grouping :p 20:57:55 <planetmaker> :-) 20:58:24 * planetmaker ponders some more opengfx+trains re-writing 20:58:48 <andythenorth> frosch123: it's more concrete now there's actual smoke :) 20:58:59 <andythenorth> smoke is about as valid as any other reason to have 'types' 20:59:17 <Samu> this is cool, I can use AIs to persuade users to join my game, they think it's an active server 20:59:26 * andythenorth is unreasonably excited about ship smoke :D 20:59:36 <supermop> i think it is exciting 20:59:44 <supermop> but 20:59:58 <supermop> i would dived by engine type rather than fuel 21:00:13 <supermop> internal combustion vs boiler 21:00:20 <Terkhen> hmm... something like steam/diesel/hovercraft? 21:00:25 <andythenorth> yes 21:00:29 <andythenorth> but then there were complications 21:00:44 <andythenorth> sail / hydrofoil / ekranoplan / nuclear 21:00:45 <supermop> steam/internal combustion (oil or diesel)/sail 21:00:47 <andythenorth> oars 21:00:52 <Samu> a maglev hovercraft, using ionized water 21:01:07 <andythenorth> can we uncomplicate it? Maybe, like...now? 21:01:12 <Terkhen> hmm 21:01:25 <Alberth> white smoke, brown smoke, and no smoke, temporary smoke, constant smoke 21:01:25 <Samu> only needs water to power itself 21:01:27 <frosch123> andythenorth: just come up with a sane solution for railtypes 21:01:34 <Prof_Frink> andythenorth: Chain? 21:01:44 <andythenorth> frosch123: what's the insane part? 21:01:58 * andythenorth thinks Alberth nailed smoke 21:02:10 <frosch123> hmm, wait, are we only discussing visual effect, or also liveries? 21:02:13 <Terkhen> I had to google some of those strange ship types :P 21:02:17 <andythenorth> screw liveries 21:02:21 <andythenorth> I got bored of that :( 21:02:24 <Alberth> no, it escaped out of my hands! :p 21:02:46 <Rubidium> yay.. openoffice fails to properly render the date graph to a pdf... 21:02:47 <andythenorth> the train nerds made me sad with all their bizarre requests for micro-managing everything to build a 1:1 model of reality 21:03:14 <frosch123> well, ships need multiple spawn points for smoke, or we need articulated ships :p 21:03:21 <Alberth> andythenorth: point them to the nearest train sim :) 21:03:27 <andythenorth> he 21:03:36 <andythenorth> a big new train sim just got released 21:03:41 <andythenorth> so they'll be happy 21:03:45 <andythenorth> frosch123: can we store cargo in the smoke? 21:03:57 <Rubidium> ah well, it looks pretty much like the previous graph 21:04:00 <andythenorth> ship-wagons? 21:04:09 <Alberth> smoke wagons :) 21:04:18 <andythenorth> ship wagons would be pretty 21:04:18 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:04:30 <andythenorth> but not needed :) 21:04:43 <andythenorth> ^ the smoke got alberth 21:05:18 <Terkhen> :D 21:05:43 <andythenorth> trains combine smoke + visual effect in one power 'type' ? 21:05:51 <andythenorth> but it can be over-ridden 21:05:53 <planetmaker> it can be done separately 21:05:55 <planetmaker> yes 21:05:58 <andythenorth> oops 21:06:03 <andythenorth> livery + visual effect I means 21:06:43 <andythenorth> an often-fired cb for smoke is overkill? 21:07:49 <Samu> one of the AIs manager is named D.J. Adams 21:07:53 <Samu> cool 21:09:51 <andythenorth> hmm 21:10:34 <andythenorth> extending smoke would involve creating things like VE_TYPE_FOOBAR 21:10:38 <andythenorth> in vehicle.cpp 21:10:40 <andythenorth> ? 21:10:50 <Terkhen> extending it in which way? 21:10:57 <Prof_Frink> Samu: Shame it's not D.N. 21:11:20 <andythenorth> Terkhen: extending types of available smoke 21:11:29 <andythenorth> so e.g. same sprites as diesel smoke, but constant 21:11:30 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 21:11:31 <frosch123> they are all effect vehicles 21:11:37 <andythenorth> not using an acceleration formula 21:11:50 <andythenorth> what else do effect vehicles do? 21:11:56 <frosch123> they do nothing 21:12:10 <frosch123> the ship creates them, so you have to change the ship, not the smoke 21:13:50 <andythenorth> frosch123: I am trying understand the lines from 1975-2024 in vehicle.cpp 21:14:46 <frosch123> oh, then i confused some stuff :) 21:15:28 <andythenorth> I was thinking if constant smoke was needed....a new formula would be needed there 21:15:33 <andythenorth> which implies a new case? 21:15:51 <frosch123> i don't think so 21:15:58 <andythenorth> hmm 21:16:06 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:16:09 <frosch123> rather add some properties to influence the existing formulas 21:16:15 * andythenorth always feels stupid when reading src 21:16:24 <supermop> do ships in game really accelerate? 21:16:41 <supermop> they seem to reach their top speed at about the sae rate 21:16:45 <supermop> same 21:16:47 <frosch123> like "smoke at start", "smoke per speed" (signed), and "smoke per acceleration" or so 21:17:17 <andythenorth> how about just two values 21:17:29 <andythenorth> amount at min, amount at max 21:17:35 <Terkhen> supermop: their speed increases by a fixed value each tick IIRC 21:18:04 <supermop> and this is the same for all types of ship? 21:18:11 <andythenorth> supermop: yes 21:18:28 <andythenorth> far as I can see 21:19:21 <Terkhen> shall we have another realistic acceleration for ships discussion? :) 21:19:35 <andythenorth> no please 21:19:45 <Terkhen> :D 21:19:48 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 21:19:49 * andythenorth hopes to get a nice answer to ship smoke, and not ten new problems :P 21:20:08 <andythenorth> perfect == enemy of good :( 21:20:22 <Terkhen> that's impossible, in my experience every small, harmless suggestion unearths a big pile of problems 21:20:37 <planetmaker> :-P 21:20:37 <supermop> i dont want to cause any trouble 21:20:41 <supermop> just curious 21:20:45 <andythenorth> you're not ;) 21:20:48 <planetmaker> that's what she said 21:20:53 <supermop> ha 21:21:27 <Terkhen> supermop: don't worry, we are just joking :) 21:21:42 <Terkhen> IIRC aircrafts have an "acceleration" property 21:22:07 <andythenorth> hmm 21:22:16 <andythenorth> for ships with multiple funnels... 21:22:37 <andythenorth> could the effect vehicle be created at a location which is drawn from a list on a round-robin basis? 21:22:43 <andythenorth> e.g. pos 1, pos 2, pos 3 21:23:19 <andythenorth> might make a nice puff-puff effect 21:23:45 <frosch123> i guess synchronised would look better 21:24:03 *** APTX_ [~APTX@chello089077244008.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 21:24:34 <andythenorth> so in that case, loop to create n effect vehicles, at positions from a list? 21:24:54 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089077244008.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:10 <andythenorth> ha ha 21:27:19 <andythenorth> three lots of smoke looks awesome :D 21:28:23 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f72f149.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 21:28:51 <andythenorth> grr 21:29:02 <andythenorth> the offsets are calculated relative to map, not vehicle 21:29:16 * andythenorth feels deja vu for flash games 21:30:07 <andythenorth> so what, I get the vehicle angle and do trigonometry? 21:35:03 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/much_more_smoke.png 21:35:59 <supermop> that is alot of smoke 21:36:08 <frosch123> hmm, actually, if the smoke is generated synchronously... the only thing we need is to allow the ship to define its own smoke sprites 21:36:21 <frosch123> then you can put as many fumes at whatever positions into it 21:36:44 <andythenorth> so the newgrf provides the smoke? 21:36:57 <frosch123> maybe 21:37:04 <andythenorth> hmm 21:37:08 <frosch123> not sure, whether that would actually work 21:37:28 <andythenorth> I like the 'define number of effect vehicle to provide' route :) 21:37:36 <andythenorth> drawing smoke scares me :O 21:37:54 <andythenorth> how do I get the vehicle angle? 21:38:03 <frosch123> v->direction 21:38:06 <andythenorth> or is trigonometry the wrong approach? 21:38:12 <frosch123> or this->direction 21:38:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: sin and cos if not needed for 45 degree steps :p 21:39:12 * andythenorth tries 21:39:34 <andythenorth> this->direction returns what? 21:39:45 <andythenorth> degrees? radians? 21:39:47 <frosch123> it's an enum 21:39:59 <frosch123> DIR_xxx 21:40:19 <frosch123> take a look at _vehicle_smoke_pos 21:40:56 <frosch123> int x = _vehicle_smoke_pos[v->direction] * effect_offset; 21:40:58 <frosch123> int y = _vehicle_smoke_pos[(v->direction + 2) % 8] * effect_offset; 21:40:59 <andythenorth> ok 21:42:13 * andythenorth tries 21:42:17 <__ln___> Has Revell changed their colour numbering since the 80's? 21:43:40 * andythenorth fails 21:45:26 <frosch123> int x = _vehicle_smoke_pos[v->direction] * effect_offset_along + _vehicle_smoke_pos[(v->direction + 2) % 8] * effect_offset_lateral; 21:45:27 <frosch123> int y = _vehicle_smoke_pos[v->direction] * effect_offset_lateral + _vehicle_smoke_pos[(v->direction + 2) % 8] * effect_offset_along; 21:45:31 <frosch123> use something like that 21:45:39 <frosch123> and then fill effect_offset_xxx with somethnig useful 21:48:26 * andythenorth tries 21:52:26 <andythenorth> hmm 21:54:53 <andythenorth> frosch123: I failed :| 21:54:59 <andythenorth> ho hum 22:00:51 *** Samu [Samu@95.169.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:01:53 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:20ca:4ec2:d8d1:4ab3] has joined #openttd 22:01:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 22:03:21 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f49b4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:24 *** welshdragon [~dragon@millsie.net] has left #openttd [Leaving] 22:07:06 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9CC3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:11:15 *** elmz__ [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:11:51 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:59 *** Arie- [~Arie@82-169-69-154.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 22:17:04 <supermop> hmm, all of the interesting smoke-talk has stopped 22:17:33 <supermop> i guess i should get back to coding my grf 22:19:29 <andythenorth> supermop: I have smoke appearing in random positions near ships 22:19:41 <andythenorth> but without frosch I can't figure out what's wrong :P 22:19:46 <supermop> this sounds awesome 22:19:53 <andythenorth> and it's bedtime 22:19:56 <planetmaker> probably terrorists. 22:20:00 <supermop> just roll with it! 22:20:25 <planetmaker> andythenorth: you know that you can explicitly place the smoke? 22:20:29 <supermop> bedtime in england? 22:20:35 <planetmaker> quite 22:20:42 <supermop> you are more responsible than I 22:20:52 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I am trying to patch for various smoke enhancements 22:21:00 <andythenorth> such as the n-funnel problem 22:21:06 <planetmaker> openttd or your grf? 22:21:14 <andythenorth> openttd 22:21:18 <planetmaker> uh... 22:22:00 <planetmaker> too tired for that meanwhile for today, sorry :-) 22:22:03 <andythenorth> I am currently figuring out how to rotate the offsets 22:22:06 <andythenorth> but it's bedtime 22:22:16 <planetmaker> sleep well :-) 22:22:27 <Terkhen> good night andythenorth 22:22:30 <andythenorth> night 22:22:31 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 22:28:56 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 22:33:05 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@225.80-202-65.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 22:51:50 <supermop> hey, here is a stupid question: 22:52:20 <supermop> if i want a station tile to have 16 possible sprite layouts, depending on callback 22:52:38 <supermop> so i set up 32 layouts in action 0? 22:53:00 <supermop> 2 directions for each of the 16 possibilities 22:54:18 <Wolf01> 'night all 22:54:27 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:57:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A199AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:46 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe8bde00-63.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 23:00:57 <Eddi|zuHause> no. the callback is the layout. not the callback result 23:01:13 <Eddi|zuHause> so you have 2 layouts. 23:02:49 <supermop> i am not sure a follow 23:02:53 <supermop> *i 23:04:57 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't have more than 8 sprite layouts. 23:05:21 <Eddi|zuHause> platform, house, roof left, roof right 23:05:22 <Eddi|zuHause> x2 23:05:52 <Eddi|zuHause> so in order to have more than these, you pick one layout, e.g. platform 23:06:14 <Eddi|zuHause> and you define this to be a callback, so depending on other variables, you get different loking platforms 23:06:37 <Eddi|zuHause> but to the game they are all the sprite layout platform 23:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. one layout 23:07:33 <Eddi|zuHause> (or maybe i misunderstood the entire thing) 23:07:38 <supermop> well 23:07:44 <supermop> i has a tile 23:07:50 <supermop> *have 23:07:55 <supermop> with 4 sprites 23:08:09 <supermop> and it can have or not have aany of the 4 sprites 23:08:23 <supermop> that is, draw o not draw 23:08:41 <supermop> to acheive that, i need 16 action 2s 23:08:55 *** Arie- [~Arie@82-169-69-154.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:09:12 <supermop> to account for the 16 possible combinations of those 4 sprites 23:10:01 <supermop> now i just need to specify whic sprites get drawn by each action 2 23:10:23 *** enr1x [~kiike@74.70.23.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:10:55 <supermop> so i though i would put 0B 02 in the action 0 23:11:20 <supermop> then 09 20 23:11:44 <supermop> to set up both views for each of the 16 possibilities 23:13:06 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9190.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 23:13:38 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i don't fully understand the specs in a quick skim... you might be right 23:13:52 <Eddi|zuHause> but you should better ask the station set authors... 23:22:59 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.194] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:27:58 <supermop> i wonder if a call back is actually what i need to assign sprites to the action 2s 23:28:40 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:49 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 23:29:32 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-219.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:30:30 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f72f149.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:30:40 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@225.80-202-65.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 23:30:46 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db1b03f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: gn8] 23:30:56 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9190.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:12 *** welshdragon [~dragon@millsie.net] has joined #openttd 23:37:33 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-26-149.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:42:38 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-219.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 23:51:13 * SmatZ wonders why "grep -v" is so much slower than "grep -e" 23:54:27 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f72272e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 23:58:36 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-219.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]