Log for #openttd on 3rd February 2011:
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00:07:11  *** bcool [] has joined #openttd
00:07:35  <bcool> okay, I have a savegame showing my problem.
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00:07:51  <bcool> 3 years and the game is still collecting interest on the loan.
00:08:09  <bcool> despite having been paid off.
00:08:33  <SmatZ> bcool: can you upload it somewhere?
00:09:30  <bcool> one sec
00:10:26  <bcool>
00:10:43  <bcool> I created a quick custom scenario.
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00:10:52  <bcool> For easy cash.
00:12:27  <V453000> is there any formula to count how much passengers could be produced by 3 million world population in total?
00:12:30  <V453000> (per month)
00:13:31  <SmatZ> bcool: that savegame doesn't show any "Loan interest" for Plonningville Transport
00:13:45  <SmatZ> it just shows some Property maintenance
00:13:48  <bcool> hmm
00:14:02  <SmatZ> and Other
00:14:11  <SmatZ> which is... I don't remember now what is that :)
00:14:39  <bcool> I'm seeing loan interest.
00:14:55  <SmatZ> what version do you have?
00:15:14  <bcool> oh, that is other. Whoops
00:15:17  <bcool> 1.0.5
00:15:19  <SmatZ> hmm 1.0.5
00:15:25  <SmatZ> :)
00:16:37  <bcool> okay
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00:16:49  <bcool> sorry for being a noob
00:17:24  <V453000> bcool: person who admits being a noob, is not a noob :P
00:17:39  <V453000> just made a mistake ;) shit happens
00:17:49  <SmatZ> no problem :)
00:17:51  <SmatZ> yup
00:21:24  <bcool> I assume Other goes up due to inflation?
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00:31:36  <glx> aren't other related to landscaping ?
00:32:01  <V453000> that is construction
00:32:19  <V453000> other is founding industries, sending money to companies, and idk what else :)
00:32:43  <glx> maybe I'll search in the source if I really want to know :)
00:47:29  <Eddi|zuHause> errr... when switching off mammoth trains, i can only make 9 halftiles long trains, instead of 10
00:48:09  <Eddi|zuHause> unless it's a dual-headed engine
00:50:08  <Eddi|zuHause> and i can make 18 halftiles, when attaching dual headed engines together
00:51:13  <Eddi|zuHause> so there's a) an obiwan with the length, and b) missing check for dualhead/articulated
00:53:16  <Eddi|zuHause> and independently from this: ctrl+click to turn around vehicles that are shorter than 1 halftile is incorrect
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01:00:21  <evo-devo> Hello.
01:00:59  <evo-devo> Are there any servers that accepts new players?
01:02:04  <Eddi|zuHause> this is more a development channel. server owners are usually not here. check the multiplayer lobby in the game, sometimes the servers have websites
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01:17:21  <Ammler> every server without password accepts new players
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07:40:39  <Terkhen> good morning
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07:57:51  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: interesting, that bug was fixed at least once in the past
07:58:35  <SmatZ> @commit 12131
07:58:35  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by smatz :: r12131 trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp (2008-02-13 16:49:25 UTC)
07:58:36  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Fix (r3374): with mammoth trains disabled, maximum train length was limited to 9
07:58:51  <SmatZ> ^^^ Eddi|zuHause :) I suppose you are using more recent version than r12131
08:02:56  <SmatZ> hmm the message "Train too long" misses a predicate (verb)
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08:03:27  <Terkhen> ... train is too long
08:04:02  <SmatZ> yeah
08:04:34  <SmatZ> I would almost vote for removing mammoth_trains as well :P
08:04:37  <Rubidium> "... site unsuitable"? ;)
08:04:40  <SmatZ> :-)
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08:04:49  <Rubidium> "... too high"
08:04:59  <SmatZ> :-)
08:05:09  <Rubidium> "... too many towns"
08:05:20  <Rubidium> so it's missing verbs all around
08:05:29  <SmatZ> hmm
08:05:32  <Terkhen> SmatZ: introduce a bug on them and count the revisions until someone notices
08:06:11  <SmatZ> Terkhen: FS#4461 :)
08:06:17  <SmatZ> I wonder for how long it has been broken
08:06:27  <Terkhen> :D
08:07:12  * Rubidium would argue FS#4462 is a NewGRF bug
08:07:53  <Rubidium> or otherwise a duplicate of FS#3569
08:08:35  <SmatZ> interestingly, FS#4462 was discussed here few days ago
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09:05:21  <Guest2439> hey-ho
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09:06:39  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> what linux do you use ?
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09:12:44  <planetmaker> moin
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09:16:10  <V453000> hi pm :)
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09:20:08  <Wolf01> morning
09:22:37  <Terkhen> hi planetmaker and Wolf01
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10:46:38  <Tennel> hello, how do i load a scenario into a dedicated server?
10:49:13  <Terkhen> Tennel:
10:49:54  <Tennel> thx
10:49:58  <Tennel> bye
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10:50:14  <planetmaker> now, that was... short quick and nice :-)
10:50:32  <halogen> I'd rather have seen that drawn out for hours since I have nothing better to do.
10:51:20  <planetmaker> V453000: the screenshot you show in the titlegame thread will IIRC only look that way if you play with newgrf which support 2CC
10:51:32  <V453000> oh
10:51:35  <V453000> true :) sorry
10:51:40  <V453000> didnt realize that
10:51:52  <V453000> thanks ;)
10:51:52  <planetmaker> base sets only have 1CC ;-)
10:51:57  <planetmaker> no problem
10:52:01  <V453000> yes, I know, it just didnt hit me :P
10:56:31  <planetmaker> are you going to correct it?
10:56:46  <V453000> ofc
10:56:49  <V453000> done
10:56:52  <planetmaker> :-)
10:57:50  <planetmaker> thx
10:57:58  <V453000> was my fault :p
11:00:31  <V453000> I just do not like to make the savegame look like a parrot, shining with all the colous together
11:02:00  <planetmaker> hehe
11:02:26  <planetmaker> well. Still I think showing more than one company is a good thing. No need for 15 companies, though
11:02:51  <planetmaker> Like one could provide heli services for the ultra rich and valuables. The other the commuter for the common people. Or so
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11:05:57  <Tennel> hi, i tried loading the scenario with the -g parameter, but the server doesn't load it. Do i have to change some settings in the config file?
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11:08:40  <planetmaker> did you give the proper path?
11:08:40  <Tennel> i also tried to load it via rcon with "rcon <pwd> load scenario/<myscenario>.scn" but, it schows me the help of the load cmd
11:08:58  <planetmaker> you might need ../scenario/file.scn
11:09:00  <Tennel> yes i tried with full path
11:09:11  <Tennel> why ..
11:09:37  <Tennel> nope, doesn't work
11:09:44  <planetmaker> you can always rename it to a normal savegame and try then.
11:10:31  <Tennel> but there's an .id and a .title file
11:11:17  <Tennel> what is the normal way to load a scenario into a dedicated server, without gui?
11:12:28  <planetmaker> openttd knows not nor reads nor creates any .id nor .title files
11:12:53  <planetmaker> I always upload only savegames which I load
11:14:36  <Tennel> i downloaded ingame content, and there are these files
11:14:42  <Tennel> i don't know
11:15:48  <planetmaker> they're not from openttd
11:16:16  <Tennel> ok..
11:16:39  <Tennel> i tried to rename it, to 123.sav, openttd says no file or dir
11:18:14  <planetmaker> then you don't give the proper path
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11:18:40  <planetmaker> rcon pwd will tell you where it (currently) searches
11:20:33  <Tennel> ok, i try
11:20:37  <Tennel> cya l8er
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11:25:02  <V453000> pm: they still do stop in red stations though :P
11:26:08  <V453000> mahh, just tried to change coulours and was terrified by the sight :D
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12:12:18  <Tennel> ok, i've tried a lot of things to open a scenario on a dedicated server, nothing worked.
12:13:25  <Ammler> Tennel: rename the scn to sav
12:13:37  <Tennel> doesn't wokr
12:13:40  <Tennel> *work
12:13:44  <Ammler> then paste the error
12:14:13  <Wolf01> can you load it in singleplayer?
12:14:14  <Tennel> no error, openttd just load a random map instead
12:14:17  <Tennel> yes
12:14:30  <Ammler> how do you load the save on your server?
12:15:06  <Tennel> via -g parameter and with "rcon <pwd> "load <path>""
12:15:13  <Ammler> so which?
12:15:32  <Tennel> NorthernGermany
12:15:43  <Ammler> no, I mean, do you use -g or rcon?
12:16:06  <Tennel> both
12:16:28  <Ammler> I quite much dislike this new feature, where it starts a random game, when the loading doesn't work
12:16:50  <Tennel> yep, me too
12:17:06  <planetmaker> Tennel: does the server have all required newgrfs?
12:17:33  <Tennel> hmm, this could be the point
12:17:41  <Tennel> i will try that
12:17:44  <Ammler> but that would show a error
12:17:49  <planetmaker> not loading a map is usually a clear indicator that one is missing.
12:18:26  <Tennel> ok, i'll report later
12:19:30  <Tennel> how can i find out, which are required
12:19:33  <planetmaker> Tennel: that scenario has a plethora of newgrfs
12:20:01  <planetmaker> And I don't have all of them...
12:20:15  <Tennel> ok...
12:20:22  <Tennel> hmm
12:20:35  <Ammler> <-- buggy
12:20:42  <planetmaker> and badly configured, too
12:21:07  <planetmaker> hm, acutally I have all. Just badly configured newgrf list
12:21:11  <planetmaker> and settings
12:21:51  <Ammler> if you define a wrong path, it does start a random game but then exits because of the failed save?
12:22:39  <planetmaker>
12:25:06  <Rubidium> Ammler: yes; failure to load is only checked after a fallback has been loaded
12:25:18  <Tennel> ok, thx for the informations, i will not run scenarios anymore :)
12:25:50  <Rubidium> that way the "state" of loading a savegame is always the same: there is a valid game state
12:26:23  <Rubidium> instead of some invalid state after which all places that try to load a savegame must check what to do on failure, i.e. exit or load another game, or ...
12:27:41  <planetmaker> Tennel: 'scenario' is just another file extension. Otherwise it's a normal savegame.
12:27:49  <Tennel> ok
12:27:56  <planetmaker> So... just use a normal savegame, upload it and load it.
12:28:09  <Tennel> and activate the newgrfs
12:28:11  <planetmaker> then you're save and you could have made sure (locally) that the game is ok
12:28:23  <planetmaker> of course your server has to have all newgrfs involved. sure
12:28:23  <Tennel> i will try that, if i have more time
12:28:38  <planetmaker> just scp your newgrf folder to the server ;-)
12:29:01  <Tennel> thx a lot
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13:40:13  <Belugas> hello
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14:00:53  <planetmaker> does anyone have a game for me with MANY airplanes, but no airplane NewGRF?
14:01:46  <Terkhen> can't you use a game with a lot of wrightAIs?
14:02:11  <planetmaker> that's probably the 2nd option. But I'm not sure whether they build all kinds of planes, too
14:02:36  <Terkhen> probably not, you could mend that a bit adding chopper AI
14:02:58  <dihedral> you could ask luukland, as his servers are the only ones that allow planes
14:03:04  <planetmaker> :-) Or I'll build a airport for each plane and see how it goes :-)
14:03:10  <planetmaker> I need them for alignment purposes
14:03:50  <Ammler> make a .stable with planes only :-P
14:04:05  <planetmaker> And I could use an alignment template for arbitrarily-sized planes :-P
14:06:27  <planetmaker> I can sensibly continue with the rail wagons only when I have correct colours ;-)
14:07:05  <planetmaker> Looks like I already commited bad colours :S
14:07:26  <planetmaker> testing with blue CC didn't prove too well for this ;-)
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14:47:27  <planetmaker> hm, when is the broken plimp shown?
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16:36:15  <planetmaker> and <-- obviously bounding boxes are... bad... why, though?
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16:39:38  <dihedral> bounding box and plane on a different level?
16:40:55  <planetmaker> rather x and y offset
16:41:10  <planetmaker> by actually seemingly what I give as offset in the real sprite.
16:41:18  <peter1138> What's the problem?
16:41:46  <planetmaker> the bounding boxes don't surround the planes when in flight
16:42:00  <planetmaker> nor actually on the ground
16:42:04  <peter1138> ahh
16:45:16  <planetmaker> hm... the bounding box size changes upon landing... from too large to too small
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16:56:49  <Belugas> maybe because it changes sprites?
16:58:17  <planetmaker> base set planes don't change sprites
16:58:31  <planetmaker> there's only 8 views and when landing orientation doesn't change
17:02:30  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i think i never have seen dihedral's real name before...
17:04:19  <planetmaker> errm... so?
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17:05:53  <planetmaker> aren't our nicks our 'real names' here?
17:06:08  <planetmaker> and aren't all of us 20-year old male geeks? :-P
17:06:23  <Eddi|zuHause> for large values of "20" ;)
17:06:37  <planetmaker> 2sigma is about 40 ,I guess
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17:08:21  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, you have not? it's in bugs. too
17:08:33  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: yes, that's where i just saw it
17:08:43  <dihedral> oh
17:08:47  <dihedral> and my /whois shows it too
17:08:50  <dihedral> and my domain
17:09:00  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but i don't usually /whois people ;)
17:09:07  <dihedral> but i would get slightly worried if you were so keen to find out what my real name was :-D
17:09:18  <Eddi|zuHause> it's displayed when you hover over the nicklist, too
17:09:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not. i just didn't recognize the name as "known"
17:10:27  <planetmaker> Eddi meet dih. dih meet Eddi ;-)
17:11:15  <planetmaker> and hit the road, drive 500km and buy eachother a beer :-P
17:11:29  <V453000> beer
17:12:01  <planetmaker> sorry for the highlight :-P
17:12:47  <XeryusTC> beer \o/
17:13:02  <peter1138> bet you can't guess my name
17:13:31  <Prof_Frink> beer!
17:13:38  <peter1138> that's not my name!
17:13:54  <Prof_Frink> <@beer1138> that's not my name!
17:14:01  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i have also not met dihedral either.
17:14:09  <peter1138> lol
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17:15:03  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138/Prof_Frink: well, it's a simple consonant-substitution ;)
17:15:27  <Eddi|zuHause> leave out the t and switch p for b ;)
17:17:56  <Eddi|zuHause> britain is not part of the schengen-treaty, so you need a passport to get there?
17:18:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i actually was in Schengen once.
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17:19:50  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a really tiny town, and half of the area is dedicated as a memorial place for the location the ship docked when first signing the treaty :p
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18:28:29  <andythenorth> electricity: the suggestion that won't die
18:28:30  <andythenorth> :P
18:28:44  <Terkhen> :)
18:30:03  <Eddi|zuHause> there are at least half a dozen suggestions of that kind :p
18:30:33  <andythenorth> some less stupid than others :P
18:31:06  <Eddi|zuHause> what? like assembling road vehicles like trains? :p
18:34:34  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... merging wikis doesn't sound like a very bright idea...
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18:35:40  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
18:35:51  <supermop> I don't think electricity is necessarily inappropriate for OTTD, but most of the proposals thusfar I cannot get behind,
18:36:34  <supermop> afterall, what private transport company also runs the electric utilities?
18:37:08  <supermop> (actually there are probably a few, but that seems like a case of exceptions that prove the rule)
18:39:10  <Eddi|zuHause> historically, creating an electrified tram network is actually the first time that many cities got electricity the first time
18:39:25  <Eddi|zuHause> -the first time
18:40:42  <Eddi|zuHause> so the order is: a tram network is planned, a power station is built to supply the tram network, some of the power is diverted to the houses near the tram network.
18:44:33  <Alberth> let's build a power plant near every city with a tram :p
18:45:34  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: translators * r21950 /trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt:
18:45:34  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:34  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnau
18:46:24  <Eddi|zuHause> having power stations have a feedback on your own vehicles (speed or cost) is silly
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19:01:32  <Belugas> and connect the cities to the water pumps, themselves connected to the electric circuits!
19:04:53  <Alberth> underground pipes
19:06:14  <Alberth> not good for tycoons :(
19:08:32  <Belugas> indeed not. request will fly afterward : I WANT TO SEE MY PIPES!!!! Show ME MY PIPES!!!!
19:08:33  <Belugas> grrr
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19:12:54  <Alberth> we need an 'underground view' :p
19:26:00  <Belugas> we do!
19:26:06  <Belugas> and a new map array
19:26:22  <Eddi|zuHause> and signals on bridges!
19:26:32  <Belugas> thing is, i am really starting to believe it can be done :S
19:26:37  <Belugas> that too Eddi|zuHause
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19:28:17  <dihedral> need?!1one
19:29:13  <dihedral> if you turn your screen off you get a pretty good view of what the map must look like from the underground :-D
19:31:30  <Prof_Frink> dihedral: Hmm, April Fools' release?
19:32:32  <andythenorth> why does electricity annoy me so much now?
19:32:49  <Prof_Frink> Because you pissed on the electric fence?
19:33:10  <Belugas> maybe becasue it's static from a picture point of view?
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19:35:02  <andythenorth> ach
19:35:12  * andythenorth should drink less black coffee and eat more lunch
19:35:21  <Terkhen> you have taken part on too many discussions about it? :)
19:35:25  <andythenorth> probably
19:35:28  <andythenorth> it's like old old news
19:35:39  <andythenorth> connecting up a power grid is stupid and boring
19:35:51  <andythenorth> having to generate power for your trains is even dumber
19:36:04  <Alberth> and not original, simcity already did that :)
19:36:13  <andythenorth> using electricity for town growth and maybe industry production is sane
19:36:21  <andythenorth> and would be possible with newgrf TownControl
19:36:38  <andythenorth> but I don't need the wires and the physics :P
19:55:54  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> hi
19:56:01  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> what linux do all use?
19:56:31  <Alberth> all is not here atm
19:56:52  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> ;>
19:57:04  <Alberth> but the usual suspects, suse, debian, red hat, ubuntu
19:59:12  <Alberth> and Mac uses a BSD variant iirc
19:59:18  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> with reversed order?
19:59:20  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> <;
19:59:34  <Alberth> reversed order?
19:59:40  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> so ubuntu is the most user-friendly?
20:00:07  <__ln__> not.
20:00:08  <Alberth> depends on your idea of what user-friendly actually means
20:00:25  <Prof_Frink> Ubuntu is most ubuntu-user friendly.
20:00:31  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> áh
20:01:10  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> what about centos ?
20:01:19  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> and gentoo
20:01:23  <Alberth> as platform for running programs, ubuntu probably works nicely
20:01:53  <Alberth> centos is RHEL, oriented for servers. Extremely conservative in updating
20:02:47  <__ln__> Alberth: yet it does update, unlike Ubuntu
20:02:48  <Prof_Frink> Gentoo is... gentoo.
20:02:57  <Alberth> ie they have Python 2.4, which is from 2006
20:03:00  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> you mean heavy search for security bugs before updates? :)
20:03:21  <Alberth> no, they fix security, but not otherwise
20:04:18  <Alberth> if you download your average open source linux program as source, you will have a hard time getting it too run, as your software is too old
20:05:32  <Alberth> fedora is the other end of RH, quite bleeding edge, stuff may break, etc
20:06:55  <Alberth> __ln__: don't know about ubuntu, I tend to avoid it
20:08:09  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> :)
20:08:33  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> btw tried ubuntu about 9 month ago, install said "unknown error occoured during install, exiting..."
20:08:44  * Terkhen uses arch
20:09:15  <Prof_Frink> There's always one...
20:13:14  <Eddi|zuHause> err... apparently we now have a version "1.10-4 beta" :p
20:17:35  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> yes tried fedora too
20:17:44  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> well  was quite bleeding
20:18:00  <dihedral> i was thinking about arch - decided against gentoo though - they have too many internal battles :-P
20:18:01  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> stability suffers
20:18:53  <dihedral> z-MaTRiX_serverdropped, stability is not just something the distribution brings with it, it is also what the admin does with it
20:19:07  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> sure
20:19:33  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> like opening an xmms or something and plaxing mp3
20:19:40  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> and starting a web browser
20:20:15  <dihedral> more like which libraries are used, where does the user mangle with things and with which things
20:20:22  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> the fedora i tried failed these
20:20:25  <dihedral> which config files does the user have to touch, etc.
20:20:40  <dihedral> note the word 'user' :-P
20:21:23  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> hm
20:21:49  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> should a system hang or crash if a user touches any config files it can?
20:22:25  <dihedral> mangle as root and you can do everything
20:22:31  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> sure
20:22:33  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> but as user
20:22:58  <dihedral> sudo counts as root :-P
20:23:07  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> yes
20:23:18  <dihedral> installing packages from untrusted sources
20:23:24  <Terkhen> if the user has sudo permissions then he can break almost anything :)
20:23:27  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> i think this is like firefox hanging after loading data from the internet...
20:23:51  <Alberth> Terkhen: you can safely drop "almost" there :)
20:24:05  <dihedral> Alberth, hardened kernel? :-D
20:24:26  <dihedral> i knew a guy - he'd even give you root access, you could not do a thing :-D
20:24:37  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> i knew one too
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20:24:46  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped>
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20:25:15  <dihedral> the guy i mean is in pen-testing ;-) i doubt he's behind what you know
20:25:41  <dihedral> anyhow - looks like you are after a new distribution then, ey?
20:26:25  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> i have an old system currently and was thinking about upgrading
20:26:41  <dihedral> that eliminates gentoo :-P
20:26:46  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> latest kernel wont compile anymore
20:26:55  <dihedral> ...
20:26:56  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> so system is outdated
20:27:05  <planetmaker> z-MaTRiX_serverdropped: I actually think that your nick does not need to reflect neither your registration status with IRC nor your server status nor your awake status nor... whatever
20:27:13  <planetmaker> In any case it breaks my layout
20:27:17  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> :)
20:27:27  <dihedral> lol
20:27:31  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> was thinking about server dropped connection
20:27:46  <dihedral> planetmaker, there is an easy way around that :-D
20:27:54  <dihedral> and you have access to more easy ways than me :-P
20:27:55  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> all other connections remain unaffected
20:27:55  <planetmaker> I was thinking about that easy way, yes :-P
20:28:03  <planetmaker> no, not that way
20:28:08  <dihedral> :-D
20:28:18  <dihedral> i love it when planetmaker gets the gist of what i mean :-P
20:28:29  <planetmaker> :-)
20:28:57  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> lasttime i set unidentified but thinking about something new
20:29:12  <dihedral> z-MaTRiX_serverdropped, you should weigh different aspects of the distributions and how important they are to you
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20:29:20  <planetmaker> z-MaTRiX_serverdropped: but that's of absolutely no interest to the others here
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20:29:30  * dihedral agrees with pm
20:29:35  <z-MaTRiX_serverdropped> ah ok
20:29:39  <Prof_Frink> Or just play with some LiveCDs and use whichever one has the nices colour scheme.
20:29:46  *** z-MaTRiX_serverdropped is now known as z-matrix
20:29:48  <dihedral> lol
20:30:05  <planetmaker> the only thing we need to know is that it's you ;-)
20:30:21  *** z-matrix is now known as Guest118
20:30:22  <dihedral> i thought it was a new guy before
20:30:24  <Guest118> ok
20:30:30  <Guest118> ihave nice nick now
20:30:37  <dihedral> and i have an ignore on Guest
20:30:41  <planetmaker> yep :-P
20:30:41  <Guest118> <;
20:31:14  <dihedral> actually i do not, but i think i like the idea
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20:31:32  <Terkhen> heh :D
20:31:44  <Guest118> hm
20:31:46  <dihedral> ignore Guest\d+
20:32:13  <Guest118> load average: 3.21, 2.88, 2.74
20:32:22  <Guest118> sha512sum from dvd ;/
20:32:49  <Guest118> like if dma was nowhere
20:34:00  <dihedral> what's your iowait like?
20:35:27  <Guest118> 4.77%
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20:35:58  <Guest118> 244.12 blockread/s on device
20:36:30  <dihedral> happens :-)
20:36:45  <Guest118> btw its centos 5.5 dvd 1
20:37:08  <Alberth> like the data affects your CD speed :p
20:37:21  <Guest118> was thinmkingabout many small files
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20:38:01  <Guest118> same was much fatser from hdd
20:38:59  <dihedral> ...
20:39:07  <Guest118> should i not care reading all files one-by-one and read as iso, then mount and sum in /tmp ?
20:39:39  <Guest118> the purpose would be data verification after writing
20:39:46  <dihedral> nice
20:39:57  <dihedral> i have not burnt a cd/dvd in a long time :-P
20:40:09  <Guest118> i like it in console
20:40:37  <dihedral> yes, but i'd especially not burn just for the 'likes' of it :-D
20:40:43  <Guest118> hehe
20:40:57  <Guest118> sure i need an install dvd right now
20:41:13  <dihedral> usb stick :-)
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20:41:19  <Guest118> 5GB ;<
20:41:37  <Guest118> and i dont have any
20:42:01  <dihedral> well - if you want centos 5.5 that is your choice :)
20:42:02  <Guest118> hm
20:42:23  <dihedral> 6 is being expected ;-)
20:42:28  <Guest118> already used redhat
20:42:33  <Guest118> and liked it
20:42:38  <Guest118> was stable
20:42:52  <Guest118> (its for work)
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20:43:20  <Guest118> Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS release 4 (Nahant Update 3)
20:43:45  <Guest118> this was my last choice
20:43:53  <Guest118> but outdated
20:44:06  <Guest118> more than 5 years old
20:44:22  <Guest118> and new things wont compile
20:44:57  <Alberth> really stable thus :p
20:45:05  <Guest118> quite
20:45:47  <Guest118> but i could hang it after installing firefox and java
20:47:23  <Alberth> servers don't need firefox :p
20:47:28  <Guest118> yes
20:47:50  <Rubidium> Alberth: how are you supposed to configure your firewall then?
20:47:57  <Rubidium> webmin requires a browser
20:48:09  <Guest118> maeby linx
20:48:13  <Rubidium> and ofcourse administration *must* happen on the phyisical machine
20:48:27  <Rubidium> nay, lynx/links can't handle that... too much javascript ;)
20:48:41  <Rubidium> and too much not like a "real" web browser
20:48:52  <Alberth> konqueror? :)
20:48:54  <Guest118> then ssh
20:51:23  <Rubidium> ssh isn't a graphical web browser
20:51:35  <Guest118> :)
20:51:41  <Rubidium> you really don't know what (stupid) sysadmins want, do you?
20:51:51  <Guest118> hmmm
20:52:27  <Guest118> i dont really like the cups server either on localhost:631
20:52:52  <Rubidium> cups shouldn't run on a server
20:53:02  <Rubidium> printers should have network connectivity themselves
20:53:48  <Alberth> but you need a central queue through 3 machines before you can print :p
20:54:33  <Rubidium> but then the manager can't administer it, so it must run on his workstation
20:54:43  <Rubidium> that way the manager can make sure nothing nasty is printed
20:55:16  <Alberth> I'd be happy if it did print anything, some times :)
20:55:35  <Rubidium> I never had problems printing
20:55:47  *** Zuu [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:55:51  <Rubidium> ofcourse I use a proper printer ;)
20:56:15  <Guest118> i have chosen a samsung ml-2570
20:56:19  <Rubidium> (those 50cm+ high printers)
20:58:23  <Guest118> nah almost there
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21:01:05  <Guest118> can someone recommend a way to put 6-7 cd images on a dvd ?
21:01:13  <Guest118> would like to have a menu
21:01:53  <Guest118> grub on dvd ?
21:03:55  <Alberth> put the DVD on a flat dust-free surface, shiny side up.
21:03:55  <Alberth> Unpack each CD carefully, and lay them shiny side down, exactly centered on the DVD.
21:03:55  <Alberth> Then use a big sledge hammer to melt them into one.
21:03:55  <Alberth> The latter step may fail if you don't hit it exactly at the center or without enough force.
21:03:57  <Terkhen> Guest118: google can
21:04:07  <Terkhen> ooooh, that's a nice solution too :)
21:04:24  * LordAro likes :)
21:06:09  <Rubidium> there's also fusion cooking, which fuses the CDs together. Given a DVD is just a CD with more capacity, it'll automagically turn into a DVD
21:06:13  <Terkhen> I wanted to do something like that with an old DVD which somehow caused bogus hard drive failures and almost made me crazy trying to fix it
21:06:48  <Guest118>
21:06:53  <Guest118> likethis
21:07:50  <Guest118> but would like the iso thing more
21:08:20  <Alberth> what's the point? images are so cheap
21:08:39  <Guest118> making a dvd disc with 6 rescucds for ecample
21:09:21  <Guest118> or 40 if they are 100MB
21:09:37  <Alberth> you just need one
21:10:18  <Alberth> or just install everything from scratch for the once in 10 years or so that it happens
21:10:19  <Guest118> livecd and rescuecd is at least 2
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21:12:43  <Guest118>
21:12:48  <Guest118> this is interesting
21:12:59  <Guest118> ISO Booting with Grub 2
21:13:30  <Guest118> like copy rescuecd iso on hdd and boot it in bootmenu
21:15:38  *** Lakie` is now known as Lakie
21:15:51  <Eddi|zuHause> can't you just put 10 isos as files on the disk, and use a boot-manager to boot from each one?!?
21:16:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i think you're totally overthinking this...
21:16:58  * dihedral nods
21:16:59  <Guest118> that was what i would like to do
21:18:02  <Guest118> never had grub2 yet
21:22:43  <Alberth> HDDs are even better at saving data for a longer time :)
21:23:16  <Guest118> you recommend using a hdd to plug in a system with livecd isos?
21:25:06  <Alberth> I don't even make backups, and you're asking me for advice?
21:25:23  <Guest118> :(
21:25:27  <Guest118> dvd verification failed
21:26:18  <Guest118> ./images/stage2.img
21:27:08  <Rubidium> oh... does mb read stuff only partly or something?
21:28:11  <Guest118> cmp stage2.img /media/cdrecorder2/images/stage2.img
21:28:12  <Guest118> stage2.img /media/cdrecorder2/images/stage2.img differ: byte 35844097, line 128982
21:28:27  <Guest118> dont know, should work ok
21:28:37  <planetmaker> Rubidium: hm?
21:28:39  <Guest118> lg dvd burner
21:29:00  <Alberth> Guest118: really, we don't need all those details
21:29:00  <Rubidium> planetmaker: bug tracker; the thing about reversing vehicles
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21:32:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i'm fairly sure there's a "yes" :p
21:34:08  <planetmaker> hm, strange discussion
21:35:22  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: my point is that he says "engines may travel in both directions explicitly", but then the short vehicle callback is the way to do that explicitly?
21:35:29  <Rubidium> EMAKESNOSENSE
21:36:15  *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:36:26  <Rubidium> and I bet his last lines mean: "please disallow reversing of wagons, but don't touch the others"
21:36:29  * Eddi|zuHause has this feeling that we're talking about a person behind their back :p
21:36:59  <Alberth> in a public channel?  ;)
21:37:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: whoever is currently not attending the party :=)
21:37:41  <Alberth> I am so glad I am not always online :p
21:38:00  <Rubidium> and what I propose is closer to the opposite of what I think he wants, than what I suggest to implement in OpenTTD
21:38:56  <Eddi|zuHause> that line doesn't semantically parse properly
21:39:22  <Rubidium> ditch everything after the comma?
21:39:47  <planetmaker> Rubidium: just go by Eddi's suggestion: disallow generally and give NewGRFs a vehicle flag which can be set in order to allow reversing. Sounds clean to me
21:40:02  <Eddi|zuHause> it now reads like: "whatever MB says, i immediately want to do the opposite"
21:40:20  <Rubidium> really?
21:40:32  <Rubidium> s/propose/proposed/?
21:40:48  <Rubidium> my proposal was made before his counter proposal
21:44:15  <Eddi|zuHause> what i have difficulties imagining currently about the whole issue: how is it handled currently when a shortened vehicle is turned around while it is on track, is the offset wrong there, too?
21:44:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean by the "turn around this vehicle" button in the train view
21:44:53  <Alberth> wouldn't all vehicles not be turned 'wrong' then?
21:44:59  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: then the vehicle is "drawn" from the other direction
21:45:44  <Rubidium> not sure how to explain that simply though
21:45:52  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but if the vehicle only has 4 views? is the sprite and its anchor point mirrored?!
21:46:24  <Rubidium> OpenTTD does not mirror sprites
21:46:52  <Eddi|zuHause> but then the anchor point is not at the beginning of the vehicle, but at the end?
21:47:13  <Rubidium> the "anchor" point for the graphics is the middle of the bounding box
21:47:18  <Eddi|zuHause> and why can't this same thing be done for ctrl+turned vehicles?
21:47:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i mean the point given by xrel/yrel in the grf
21:47:58  <Eddi|zuHause> (if those are the correct names)
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21:48:16  <Rubidium> what happens with a shortened vehicle is that instead of placing the next middle 8 units further, you place it e.g. 3 units further
21:48:47  <Rubidium> which means that the center of the current vehicle is outside of the vehicle
21:50:19  <Rubidium> when you swap the whole train, then the next vehicle is "connected" to the other side (which is why short vehicles always need 8 sprites to not look ugly)
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21:51:15  <planetmaker> actually one flag an engine could need is "use push/pull behaviour" which - when set - will not turn the train visually when the drive direction changes
21:51:32  <planetmaker> that'd be a big improvement
21:51:32  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that should be a callback over the whole train
21:51:58  <planetmaker> IMHO it'd need be a property of the lead engine...
21:52:08  <planetmaker> the rest just plays along
21:52:16  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it needs a combination of engine and attached wagons
21:52:21  <planetmaker> why?
21:53:13  <Eddi|zuHause> an engine may be push-pull-eligible, but if there is no steering wagon attached, it cannot be used as such. like an engine with a freight train can't push, but the same engine with a passenger train can
21:53:55  <Eddi|zuHause> callback is run when attaching/detaching wagons in the depot, and then store the result in a cache
21:54:06  <planetmaker> I disagree, Eddi|zuHause
21:54:17  <planetmaker> I could in a shunting way also drive a coal train with one engine backward
21:54:31  <Eddi|zuHause> but the game does not model shunting
21:54:34  <planetmaker> as an engine I'd just query the last vehicle for different speed
21:54:48  <planetmaker> the vehicleID
21:54:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the game models regular train operation, which is completely separate
21:55:02  <Rubidium> so for the depot (west facing vehicles) it vehicle#2 expects vehicle#1 to "end" (graphically) at the left of vehicle#2's "bounding" box (the 8/8th box). When you turn the whole train around that expectation changes to the right side. However, when you flip vehicle#2 in the depot you'll end up that assuming it is attached to vehicle#1 facing east, whereas it is actually at the other side and facing west
21:55:14  <planetmaker> still. I don't think it's needed to run a CB for all vehicles. That makes it unnecessarily complicated
21:55:25  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: "querying" still needs a callback, not a property
21:56:24  <planetmaker> yes, but not of the whole train. And the engine should decide what to do with the CB result. It should not be required
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21:56:45  <planetmaker> And the train would behave as normal, if the "use shunting" flat is not set
21:56:56  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: so when turning around the train, the alignment of bounding boxes changes, but when turning around single vehicle, it doesn't?
21:57:01  <planetmaker> if it is set, it'd be up to the engine to decide on the behaviour via CB etc
21:58:06  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i have a feeling i still didn't understand it. but nvm.
21:58:11  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yes-ish
21:58:34  <Rubidium> just think of it as the sprites are always aligned towards the front of the train
21:58:43  <Rubidium> (thus logically always to the same side)
21:59:21  <Rubidium> but when you flip a single vehicle that single vehile thinks that the front of the train is where the actual tail of the train is
21:59:44  <LordAro> Rubidium/Truebrain: You are the most likely to know: is there a way to access old files on bananas (specifically AroAI 1.0.0(r53) )?
22:00:15  <Rubidium> if you request it specifically with its unique ID
22:00:26  <Rubidium> and md5 checksum
22:00:28  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:00:46  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: problem when you define it as a callback of the front engine only, then the front engine must be aware of all wagons in it, even if they are not from the same newgrf. if you have a callback over the whole train, the game querys each wagon individually whether it says "may be at the front/middle/end of a push-pull train", and if all wagons return the correct result, the whole train will be marked push-pull-eligible. if any
22:00:47  <Eddi|zuHause> wagon fails, then it's not. no need to be other-grf-aware
22:01:23  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: what'd be the problem calling a CB on an arbitrary wagon?
22:01:37  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: yes, when loading an old savegame that expects this old file, it can be downloaded.
22:01:40  <planetmaker> if not implemented, the default result is always CB_FAILED
22:01:54  <LordAro> Rubidium: Unique ID= 49415F41, don't have an md5 checksum
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22:02:15  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you can't call a callback from within a grf. only the game can call callbacks.
22:02:26  <LordAro> Eddi: don't have a save that would want 1.0.0 over 1.0.2
22:02:41  <Rubidium> then you can't request it, as per the license you've given
22:02:57  <planetmaker> haha :-)
22:03:14  <LordAro> but i'm the author ><
22:03:26  <Rubidium> but OpenTTD doesn't know that
22:03:28  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: the game could know, though :-) a CB to the engine which returns the CB result of the last wagon
22:03:40  <planetmaker> and the game would know which that is
22:03:46  *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@] has joined #openttd
22:03:53  <LordAro> so? you do though, and you're the one with access to the files...
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22:04:39  <Rubidium> hmm, are you asking me to get that file specifically?
22:04:55  <LordAro> yes
22:05:43  <LordAro> or at least, anyone with access to the files, as (for some reason) i don't
22:06:04  <LordAro> (i think i, as the author, should)
22:07:50  <Guest118> there is 1 character difference between the iso and dvd image, should i try again? :(
22:08:09  <Rubidium> I would kinda assume that the author has the original files ;)
22:08:46  <LordAro> yes, well, i don't :( its got lost
22:10:34  <Rubidium> LordAro:
22:10:57  <Guest118> anyboddy have idea what may cause 1 character difference while burning dvd?
22:11:40  <Belugas> night all
22:11:46  <LordAro> Rubidium: thank you
22:15:46  <LordAro> Rubidium: can i also request v1.1.0?
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22:17:42  <planetmaker> LordAro: that's available as tag in your repo... why not just build it?
22:18:06  <LordAro> no make
22:18:21  <Alberth> just type the compile commands manually
22:18:30  <LordAro> although, i could just package the files myself i guess
22:25:09  <LordAro> night all
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22:34:48  <Terkhen> good night
22:35:10  <Rubidium> sleep well Terkhen
22:36:35  <planetmaker> g'night
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22:50:00  <frosch123> hmm, it would have been more fun if sirkoz called his grf "cheap long and fast bridges"
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22:53:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i always thought bridges were WAAAAY too cheap
22:54:19  <Eddi|zuHause> and we finally need this action1/2/3 support so we can do proper long and high bridges
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22:58:00  <frosch123> night
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23:58:41  <Eddi|zuHause> interesting... "molotov coctails" are actually a finnish in-joke :p
23:59:57  <supermop> yep

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