Log for #openttd on 6th June 2011:
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00:02:08  <Zuu> You could also try to load the game in 1.1 in non-dedicated mode and use the feature to fetch missing NewGRFs from bananas.
00:02:21  <Zuu> Good night
00:03:54  <alba-andy> aye something not right here
00:04:03  <alba-andy> thanks for the suggestions
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00:52:25  <alba-andy> can someone take a look at this error message
00:52:39  <alba-andy> im just trying to get a specific map loading in a 1.1 server
00:53:03  <alba-andy> i doubt that there are any AI's installed, would that cause the crash?
00:53:08  <alba-andy> ... or the not loading
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01:31:49  <alba-andy> is there a way to download content via the commandline?
01:31:55  <alba-andy> aka shell access
01:34:26  <alba-andy> i have found it impossible to move a .scn that works on a windows 1.1 to a linux 1.1 server, always same error
01:35:59  <Yexo> alba-andy: did you compile the version on your linux server yourself?
01:36:19  <alba-andy> eh
01:36:26  <alba-andy> probably not
01:36:28  <alba-andy> apt-get
01:36:42  <alba-andy> the server works with a random map
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01:37:13  <Yexo> you can try starting the server with -d sl=9 and see if you get more usable output
01:38:02  <alba-andy> dbg: [sl] Nulling pointers
01:38:11  <alba-andy> for 10 or so things
01:38:27  <Yexo> that's normal
01:38:40  <alba-andy> dbg: [sl] All pointers nulled
01:38:40  <alba-andy> dbg: [sl] Game Load Failed
01:38:59  <alba-andy> File not readable
01:39:19  <alba-andy> mmm
01:39:47  <Yexo> you have to give the complete filename as argument ,including .sav
01:39:58  <Yexo> so "openttd -g file.sav" or similar
01:41:10  <alba-andy> does it have to be a .sav or is .scn the same?
01:41:17  <alba-andy> tried both anyway, just wondering
01:41:37  <Yexo> not sure if you can directly load a scenario in a multiplayer server
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04:42:31  <planetmaker> moin
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06:56:59  <Terkhen> good morning
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07:33:46  <Eddi|zuHause> why can't i run X programs from within a screen session?
07:34:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i log in with ssh -X, and can run them from there. but when i start screen, then i can't anymore
07:34:48  <__ln__> because your $DISPLAY is wrong
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07:37:45  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: but why would screen mess with my $DISPLAY?
07:38:04  <__ln__> dunno
07:38:38  <peter1138> existing or new screen session?
07:38:55  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i tested both
07:41:56  <peter1138> existing won't work, but new should
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12:54:20  <ashledombos> hi
12:55:31  <Terkhen> hi ashledombos
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12:57:31  <ashledombos> I just wonder, would it be possible to upgrade mediawiki to a newer version?
12:58:47  <ashledombos> not necessarily the last one, but there is some intersting stuff such as better organization of special pages
13:01:09  <planetmaker> An upgrade is always a hassle. But maybe that can be done soon-ish when we get a better server
13:02:51  <planetmaker> anything you miss in particular, ashledombos ?
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13:09:23  <ashledombos> planetmaker: not really a single thing, but many little things :p but no problem, this version is good enough anyway
13:10:05  <planetmaker> the better server might be nearer to us than one might assume ;-)
13:10:07  <Belugas> hi
13:10:15  <planetmaker> hi Belugas
13:11:34  <Terkhen> hi Belugas
13:12:27  <Belugas> hi guys :)
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13:20:02  <ashledombos> hi Belugas :)
13:20:20  <Belugas> good day sir :)
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14:16:51  <Eddi|zuHause> "44 of 58 french nuclear power stations may need to shut down due to dry, hot weather"
14:17:49  <planetmaker> "grundlast-tauglich" :-P
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14:51:40  <Belugas> Dave W ? a God?  God...
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14:55:08  <V453000> :)
14:55:28  <planetmaker> Belugas, do you know Terry Pratchet's disc world?
14:55:31  <Terkhen> of fools? :P
14:55:53  <planetmaker> Then you also know what god can be ;-)
14:58:06  <TWerkhoven> oooh, discworld
14:58:34  <planetmaker>
14:58:37  <planetmaker> :-D
14:58:44  <TWerkhoven> we got em all here
14:59:04  <TWerkhoven> though we can't seem to find thief of time atm
14:59:09  <planetmaker> I got bored after half a dozen novels, it got repetitive. But it's good
15:01:53  <Rubidium> Belugas: he's probably dyslexic
15:15:08  <Belugas> planetmaker : no, does not ring a bell. Rubidium: I'd say delirious ;)
15:16:31  <Rubidium> Belugas: dog: a) a worthless or contemptible person, b) fellow, chap <a lazy dog> <you lucky dog>
15:16:58  <Belugas> :)
15:22:00  <peter1138> ah, pterry
15:23:09  <peter1138> discworld's less fantasy these days
15:44:21  <glx> <Eddi|zuHause> "44 of 58 french nuclear power stations may need to shut down due to dry, hot weather" <-- yes, water level in rivers is too low
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17:19:22  <Wolf01> evenink
17:19:35  <planetmaker> hello Wolf01
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17:45:23  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: translators * r22545 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt dutch.txt):
17:45:23  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:23  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: dutch - 37 changes by Parody
17:45:23  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 11 changes by Tucalipe
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18:22:57  <andythenorth> hola
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18:23:32  <Terkhen> hola andythenorth
18:23:39  <andythenorth> que tal?
18:23:42  <andythenorth> ¿
18:24:05  <Terkhen> programando cosas muy confusas :P
18:24:50  <andythenorth> spanish is quite efficient
18:24:58  <andythenorth> it uses fewer words like 'is'
18:25:21  <andythenorth> english-as-commonly-used is less efficient
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18:25:32  <Terkhen> but words are usually a lot longer, in english you can say more writing less
18:26:23  <andythenorth> yup
18:26:30  * Terkhen is close to a working implementation of town persistent storage
18:26:35  <andythenorth> ooh
18:26:41  <Terkhen> where working != nice :P
18:26:42  <andythenorth> electricity :P
18:26:50  <andythenorth> that would be shiny
18:26:58  <andythenorth> although with that + YACD my head might explode
18:27:17  <Terkhen> after this is tested, made nice and done, I plan to review the proposed variables and callbacks for town control
18:27:42  <planetmaker> holla andythenorth
18:28:20  <andythenorth> Terkhen: if you're pursuing town growth, it might be worth some discussion about how a (theoretical) goals framework might work
18:28:23  <Terkhen> after the proposed specs are refined, I guess that posting them at the forums for wider reviews should be the next step
18:28:24  <andythenorth> I'm not suggesting to implement it
18:28:49  <Terkhen> yes, that's a good point
18:28:58  <Terkhen> I'm not going to implement it either, but it should be taken into account
18:29:19  <andythenorth> I wonder if there's a left-turn approach to a goals framework
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18:29:28  <Hirundo> Is there any spec/code somewhere on the internets yet?
18:29:30  <Terkhen> probably the owners of all those CITY CHALLENGE servers have something to say regarding to the specs
18:29:30  <andythenorth> like making it external to the game or such
18:29:42  <Terkhen> Hirundo:
18:29:52  <Hirundo> thanks
18:30:29  <Terkhen> I'm implementing option 1 for persistent storage, but for now an item has write access only to the town storage associated to its grfid
18:30:36  <Terkhen> and has read access to all
18:31:21  <Terkhen> we are not sure that giving write access to anything is a great idea, and that could be easily added later if deemed necessary
18:31:39  <Terkhen> s/anything/everything/
18:32:46  <andythenorth> Terkhen: I couldn't do a full electricity implementation without write access for all
18:32:54  <andythenorth> but I could do a near-enough version
18:33:10  <Terkhen> why?
18:33:35  <Terkhen> do you need multiple newgrfs for it?
18:33:39  <andythenorth> probably worth explaining how electricity would work in my idea
18:33:47  <Terkhen> ok :)
18:34:16  <andythenorth> any power-plant of any kind in industry newgrf(s) would write to a town storage register (probably once a month, or when production cb runs)
18:34:57  <andythenorth> in my simple model it only has to write 01h if there was electricity, as I don't care about the amounts (and that will lead to tiresome arguments with electromagnetic equations being produced left, right and centre)
18:35:24  <andythenorth> the register is zeroed once a month
18:35:25  <andythenorth> then any industry or house that wants electricity looks in the town register to see if there is electricity
18:35:45  <andythenorth> so problems:
18:35:52  <andythenorth> (1) how to zero the register
18:36:17  <andythenorth> (2) interaction between say industry grf and town grf
18:36:28  <Rubidium> store the date instead of 1?
18:36:38  <andythenorth> and then measure offsets?  would work
18:36:42  <Rubidium> yep
18:36:49  <andythenorth> 'electricity last produce' xx-yy-zz
18:37:17  <andythenorth> Terkhen: their would be a specific grf for town growth?
18:37:29  <andythenorth> there /s
18:37:36  <Rubidium> int diff = cur_date - prod_date;
18:37:40  <Terkhen> hmm... I don't see the need to support power plants from different newgrfs at once (although many industry newgrfs allowing to enable that common behaviour would be nice), but the industry-house communication for this is a valid case
18:37:44  <Rubidium> if (diff < 0) cheater!
18:37:51  <Rubidium> if (diff < 30) good boy!
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18:38:05  <Rubidium> else want power, damnit!
18:38:29  <andythenorth> Terkhen: if there is a town grf && that has it's own registers && a monthly cb, there is no problem
18:38:37  <Terkhen> andythenorth: another option that we discussed was to set some GrfIDs as common storage, for example 0xFFXXXXXX
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18:39:04  <andythenorth> yes that would work too
18:39:17  <andythenorth> I think there are probably multiple valid routes
18:39:27  <andythenorth> I dislike multiple things writing to same registers
18:39:31  <andythenorth> it's recipe for disaster
18:39:47  <andythenorth> I have caused bugs in my own grf with persistent storage collisions
18:39:55  <Rubidium> imo this would be a prime example of some shared usage of a register. However, I would say that these shared bits *MUST* be documented in the nfo specs
18:39:58  <andythenorth> having to account for other authors is Bad Idea
18:40:15  <andythenorth> are labels out of the question?
18:40:30  <andythenorth> the other way to think about this: is electricity even a good idea?
18:42:45  <frosch123> it does not matter whether it is a good idea or not. if it is possible someone will do it :p
18:43:23  <andythenorth> not if it's not possible :P
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18:43:37  <Hirundo> frosch123: that's rule 34....
18:43:44  <andythenorth> we could add un-features :P
18:43:51  <frosch123> but yes, if there are common variable writeable by many, it should not end up like cargo classes :p
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18:44:41  <frosch123> thus it is a good idea to first let some grfs try some stuff in their private area
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18:44:58  <Terkhen> yes
18:45:01  <frosch123> to gain experience
18:46:44  * andythenorth tries to create a case for vehicles to write to town storage
18:47:02  <andythenorth> he
18:47:14  <andythenorth> real transport companies name ships and trains after cities sometimes
18:47:36  * andythenorth wonders how town storage supports that
18:47:52  <andythenorth> :D
18:48:09  <frosch123> i guess it is a good idea to not make towns accessible to vehicles :p
18:48:50  <andythenorth> ho
18:49:04  <andythenorth> if the town has no electricity, all the trams could stop :P
18:49:14  <andythenorth> maybe railtypes need access to town storage too
18:49:22  <andythenorth> with a cb to set powered / unpowered
18:50:16  <andythenorth> if towns could store some value for 'maintenance'
18:50:18  <frosch123> here railroad are supplied completely independent from houses/industries
18:50:28  <andythenorth> we could use cb36 to make vehicles slower and less reliable :P
18:50:35  <andythenorth> hmm
18:50:44  <andythenorth> a maintenance truck could 'store' to a town
18:50:50  <andythenorth> snow ploughs!
18:50:55  <frosch123> the same in sweden and switzerland
18:50:59  <andythenorth> fire trucks!
18:51:12  <andythenorth> street sweepers!
18:51:15  <frosch123> do not know about the supply of other railroads
18:51:30  <andythenorth> never give someone like me a new feature to fool with :P
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18:52:15  <Terkhen> :D
18:52:29  <Terkhen> IIRC vehicles already have a PARENT
18:52:34  * andythenorth thinks vehicles should be able to write to their town :D
18:52:43  <Terkhen> sorry, no parent.parent() :)
18:52:45  <andythenorth> which is probably very horrible
18:52:55  <andythenorth> they'd have to go via their current tile?
18:53:02  <andythenorth> probably on every tick?
18:53:21  <Terkhen> huh, that would slow the game to a crawl
18:53:51  <andythenorth> :D
18:54:26  <andythenorth> hmm
18:54:32  <andythenorth> what could objects do with towns?
18:54:34  <andythenorth> ¿
18:57:50  <andythenorth> do objects have classes or such?
18:58:13  <Rubidium> hai
18:58:33  <Rubidium> like station classes
18:58:53  * andythenorth -> specs
18:58:58  <andythenorth> :P
18:59:22  <andythenorth> ho.  This is nice
18:59:39  <Lakie> Bit out of date though
18:59:51  <Rubidium> heh... that's what I wanted to say :(
18:59:56  <andythenorth> so classes are organising features, they say nothing about the object
19:00:00  <Lakie> Bt the basics of required bits are accurate enough
19:00:11  <Lakie> Pretty much
19:00:21  <Lakie> The method of grouping.
19:00:37  <Lakie> And views would be the equivlent of sub grouping to some
19:00:40  <andythenorth> so a town couldn't use those to express a preference between say....cellphone towers and ski-slopes
19:01:37  <andythenorth> hmm
19:01:37  <Lakie> Unlikely
19:01:39  * andythenorth ponders evil
19:01:51  <andythenorth> if a town had lighthouses, ships could sink less
19:02:00  <andythenorth> this presupposes several unlikely things
19:02:00  <Lakie> You could specify a specific class tag, but it would get messy.
19:04:24  <andythenorth> hmm
19:04:30  <andythenorth> a town could have prevailing weather :P
19:04:49  * andythenorth may not be very helpful
19:12:29  <Terkhen> andythenorth: you are helpful, I'm getting a good idea of how town storage could be abused :P
19:12:54  <andythenorth> I haven't considered what stations can do yet
19:13:21  <andythenorth> ho
19:13:25  <andythenorth> here's an easy one.  cb39
19:13:41  <andythenorth> construct a partial supply-and-demand economy
19:13:55  <andythenorth> the demand side would be modelled by spot-rate calculations for cargo payment
19:13:58  <andythenorth> on a per-town basis
19:14:07  <andythenorth> the supply side wouldn't be modelled
19:14:13  <andythenorth> this would play very badly with yacd :P
19:14:50  <andythenorth> I suspect if I explore the 60+ vars, the demand side is close to possible already
19:16:33  <andythenorth> I have run out of other interesting things to do
19:16:48  <andythenorth> varying graphics by town might interest some, but is partly possible already
19:16:55  <andythenorth> town control would allow it to be more controllable
19:22:07  <Terkhen> first house could check a certain variable and if not set, set it to something random that would determine buildings for that town?
19:24:18  <andythenorth> yes
19:24:42  <Terkhen> cool
19:24:43  <andythenorth> there needs to be some form of master control for a town though
19:24:48  <andythenorth> not sure how that runs
19:24:58  <andythenorth> probably a cb
19:25:11  <andythenorth> runs every so many ticks
19:25:17  <andythenorth> similar to industry production cb
19:26:24  <Terkhen> master control of what type? town growth?
19:26:43  <andythenorth> yes
19:27:15  <andythenorth> the town itself is likely to need storage, which other grfs will not be writing to
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19:29:07  <Terkhen> town callbacks should probably be able to access the persistent storage of the grfid that defines them
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19:30:28  <andythenorth> hmm
19:30:38  * andythenorth has an idea for permitting read-write between grfs
19:31:08  <andythenorth> assume a public storage location, maybe the town
19:31:13  <andythenorth> which all grfs can read-write to
19:31:26  <andythenorth> with n locations
19:31:44  <andythenorth> the convention for what to put in those locations is governed by a schema
19:31:49  <andythenorth> (agreed between grf authors)
19:32:11  <andythenorth> grfs can implement multiple schemas
19:32:16  <andythenorth> but only one can be active at once
19:32:37  <andythenorth> the determination of which schema is used is basically a vote system between the active newgrfs
19:32:43  <andythenorth> most common schema wins
19:33:13  <andythenorth> so schema A might say delivered food is in 01h, electricity supply is in 0Ah etc
19:33:47  <andythenorth> schema B might say electricity is in 01h and number of ham sandwiches delivered is in 1Ah
19:34:05  <andythenorth> schemas have unique ID (dword)
19:34:17  <andythenorth> better or worse than a label system
19:34:17  <andythenorth> ?
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19:35:34  <andythenorth> incidentally cargo labels are fine and good and work well.  It's only cargo classes that are flawed
19:35:55  <andythenorth> and those only by some poor implementation choices, the design principle is ok
19:41:20  <Terkhen> andythenorth: that would be the next step once that the feature is tested: allowing common write access between newgrfs
19:41:55  <Terkhen> common scheme decided between different authors might cause problems of compatibility with sets outside the group
19:42:23  <andythenorth> but no scheme at all causes madness....
19:42:42  <andythenorth> sets that can't subscribe to the prevailing schema in this game can't write
19:42:47  <andythenorth> and possibly get disabled :P
19:43:24  <Terkhen> but for example, should FIRS stop working with house sets that don't follow its common scheme?
19:43:43  <andythenorth> depends who's winning the scheme war in this game
19:43:59  <andythenorth> if there is a town control grf, FIRS, and a house set
19:44:03  <Terkhen> IMO it should be optional
19:44:10  <andythenorth> if town control grf + FIRS agree on schema, the house set loses
19:44:12  <Terkhen> if the newgrfs are not present, the feature is disabled
19:44:59  <Terkhen> I think that the industry sets should not control town control
19:45:07  <Terkhen> a town control NewGRF should implement a given scheme
19:45:24  <Terkhen> the town control author makes the set compatible with certain industry sets
19:45:34  <Terkhen> for example, if I create a "all towns require food for growth" scheme
19:45:51  <Terkhen> I could detect FIRS, or if OpenGFX+ Industries has its food chain enabled
19:46:57  <andythenorth> how does the industry newgrf know where to write to?
19:47:03  <andythenorth> hmm
19:47:10  <Terkhen> good question, I was forgetting that :P
19:47:19  <andythenorth> storage location could be abstracted and treated as the internal business of the town newgrf
19:47:31  <andythenorth> there could be a get/set cb
19:47:40  <andythenorth> using labels or such
19:50:54  <Terkhen> why? town grf would access with its own grfid
19:51:09  <Terkhen> also, what to do if multiple newgrfs try to use the same town callbacks is not defined
19:51:24  <Terkhen> there are some pointers in the specs but I have to read them in more depth
19:55:56  <frosch123> if possible their effects shall add up
19:56:16  <frosch123> e.g. if there would be some general monthly callback, everyone shall be called
19:56:32  <Terkhen> for stuff like town growth that makes sense
19:56:57  <Terkhen> but what about town radius? I still don't know how exactly it works, but it does not sound like something that can add up
19:57:26  <frosch123> yeah, for that one it makes not much sense
19:57:43  <frosch123> though a grf could say, i do not want to change the defaults for this town, ask some other
19:58:01  <Terkhen> and then the next newgrf kicks in?
19:58:08  <Terkhen> that behaviour makes sense
19:58:24  <Terkhen> I don't think that mixing town controls newgrfs should be recommended anyways :P
19:59:29  <frosch123> addition text could be useful for completely town-unrelated stuff
19:59:50  <Terkhen> for example?
20:00:10  <frosch123> anyway, iirc other "generic callbacks" are also supposed to be called across multiple grfs
20:01:12  <frosch123> Terkhen: a industry grf displaying: this town is too small for a bank, or this town is likely to spawn coal mines, or whatever
20:01:22  <Terkhen> oh, I see :)
20:01:50  * Terkhen checks those generic callbacks
20:02:31  <frosch123> not sure whether that mechanism is implemented in ottd though
20:02:35  <andythenorth> there should be no equivalent of pool for town newgrfs
20:02:37  <andythenorth> one and only one
20:02:52  <andythenorth> anything else is asking for troubles
20:03:17  <andythenorth> users *will* add multiple if they're not prevented from doing so
20:04:02  <frosch123> andythenorth: you could archieve that by addinng callback flags for critical callbacks, and only allow one grf to enable them
20:04:24  <frosch123> but you cannot say that in general
20:04:33  <andythenorth> would you scan and disable town grfs if multiple were enabled?
20:04:53  <Terkhen> I guess that "Ambient sound effects" is a good example of generic callback, and it makes sense to chain it through different newgrfs
20:04:58  <frosch123> e.g. take the "display cargo delivery in town gui"-callback. that is useful for town growth, but might as well be interesting for industry production changes
20:05:11  <frosch123> Terkhen: yeah, but not implemented in ottd :p
20:05:17  <Terkhen> :D
20:05:29  <Terkhen> then I'll delete my note to check how it is implemented :P
20:05:32  <frosch123> afaik we only have the AI newstation selection
20:06:31  <Terkhen> additional text should definitely be chained
20:06:45  <frosch123> GetGenericCallbackResult seems to have some iterator
20:06:45  <Terkhen> decide town growth... probably, specially if it is a signed value
20:07:24  <Terkhen> cargo requirements could make things really complicated if chained
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20:33:22  <Zuu> A thunderstorm just arrived and I was shooting as crazy with my camera to maybe get a lightning on picture. However, the best lightning came just seconds after I ended a long series of shots :-(
20:35:33  <Zuu> But I guess it is really hard to get a shot at the right moment and I don't know exactly which lightning conditions to set up the camera for.
20:37:51  <Zuu> Hmm, but maybe one should go for a really small shutter and low ISO so that the shutting time can be long to increase the chances of getting something.
20:38:45  <planetmaker> yes.
20:38:57  <planetmaker> several seconds exposure can help
20:39:11  <Ammler> or use a camera which is faster as light
20:39:14  <planetmaker> but still, it's a lot of luck
20:39:28  <Zuu> yea as you can't react and push the button when you see it.
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20:39:46  <Rubidium> superhivision camera ;)
20:40:01  <planetmaker> Zuu: well. You just need to take images constantly ;-)
20:40:29  <planetmaker> 20s exposure, 3s dead time, 20s exposure,... ;-)
20:40:32  <Rubidium> = 33 megapixel camera @ 120 Hz
20:40:44  <planetmaker> and the best lightening of course is in the dead time or wrong direction
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20:42:37  <planetmaker> anyway... I'll hope for a thunderstorm. It just pretended to come...
20:42:47  <planetmaker> but good night for now :-)
20:43:33  <andythenorth> bye planetmaker
20:43:51  <Terkhen> good night planetmaker
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21:06:39  <bodis> hi
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21:07:10  <bodis> which train is better for 7 13 cargo carts, 2400 HP or 4000 HP?
21:07:34  <bodis> well 7 lengh station :)
21:08:16  <Terkhen> hi bodis
21:08:21  <bodis> hey
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21:12:37  <bodis> so how about these trains?
21:12:46  <bodis> is speed or horse power better?
21:13:33  <Terkhen> I don't know :P
21:13:38  <bodis> hehe :)
21:13:40  <Terkhen> run some tests
21:13:44  <bodis> k :)
21:13:55  <Terkhen> if the train does not get enough speed, add another engine or change to a model with better power
21:14:39  <bodis> ohh you can have 2 engines?
21:14:45  <bodis> omg :)
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21:15:33  <Terkhen> yes, buy another one and drag it to your existing train
21:15:43  <Terkhen> otherwise it is impossible to make those insanely long trains
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21:16:32  <bodis> what do you mean insanely long?
21:16:41  <bodis> 14 is the max isnt it?
21:17:06  <Ammler> 128ish
21:17:43  <Ammler> maybe 14 is without mammot setting?
21:18:04  <glx> HP is more important than max speed (especially with wagon speed limit)
21:18:09  <Terkhen> bodis: max lenght with mammoth trains is 64 tiles
21:18:20  <bodis> OMG
21:18:28  <bodis> Dont think I want that
21:18:29  <Ammler> Terkhen: are you sure? :-)
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21:19:43  <Terkhen> not 100% because I have not tested right now, but I'm quite sure
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21:24:06  <Bilge> Is there any reason to choose monorail over electric rail? They seem to support the same trains
21:24:58  <Terkhen> Bilge: that depends on your NewGRF selection
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21:25:35  <Terkhen> for example, with default trains they are quite different
21:30:24  <Ammler> I am quite sure, we made trains longer  100 tiles
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21:31:08  <Ammler> you don't have a station for this length, but well, that should be changed anyway :-)
21:31:37  <Ammler> is station spread really a technical limit?
21:32:26  <Terkhen> Ammler: try with 1.1.1, trains are limited to 64 tiles via setting, I don't know what was the situation before and how are those extra long trains handled now
21:32:41  <Ammler> hmm
21:32:54  <Ammler> Terkhen: any reason for that low limit?
21:33:07  <Terkhen> there was a bug report associated to it IIRC
21:33:13  <Terkhen> sorry, my memory sucks :)
21:35:26  <Ammler> well, it makes sense to limit it to station spread
21:35:42  <Ammler> that limit sucks, though
21:37:28  <Bilge> I still don't get what's different about monorail
21:37:37  <Bilge> Are trains faster on monorail than electric or something?
21:37:50  <Ammler> aren't?
21:37:58  <Terkhen> Bilge: as I said, it depends on your NewGRF selection
21:38:56  <Terkhen> for me, without any NewGRFs, monorail trains use different engines than electric and they are faster
21:39:14  <Terkhen> but without knowing what are you using we can only guess
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21:43:21  <Ammler> oh, >5 was already mammoth
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21:50:54  <Bilge> Can you see chat history in multiplayer?
21:51:00  <Bilge> Or if you miss a message is it gone forever?
21:51:29  <Terkhen> open the console to check it, in my keyboard it is open by pressing º, I don't know which key is used in other layouts
21:53:26  <Ammler> always left of one
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21:57:08  <Bilge> Thanks
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21:58:28  <Bilge> I'm sure I saw a setting somewhere to adjust new industry development... is it somewhere? I can't find it :(
21:58:42  <Bilge> This scenario hasn't got any industries
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22:06:08  <Wolf01> 'night
22:06:14  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
22:06:24  *** elmz_ [] has joined #openttd
22:06:35  <Bilge> Is there a setting to control the frequency of automatic new industry development?
22:07:17  *** elmz [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:07:38  <Terkhen> Bilge: number of industries, but I don't know if you can change it in a running game or not
22:07:40  <Terkhen> good night
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22:21:57  <Core_UK> oi
22:23:50  <Bilge> Doesn't matter anyway this mod is bugged to hell, none of the new industries actually ever finish building
22:25:33  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the easiest way to test connection speed (LAN)?
22:26:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, without any other influence factors like hd speed
22:28:06  <joho> write a program that generates a lot of data in memory and sends it
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22:28:40  <Vikthor> you could try fetching around files from/to ramdisk
22:28:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure that "write a program" is not "easy"
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22:34:13  <joho> depends on your programming knowledge!
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22:36:38  <Core_UK> depends on the program :P
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22:45:06  <Eddi|zuHause> interesting, i switched cables, but didn't lose the connection
22:46:50  <joho> irc connections doesnt reset until it detects a ping loss
22:46:55  <joho> so if you're quick it just lets it pass
22:47:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i meant _any_ connection, ssh and the like, or the ppp connection
22:47:58  <joho> quicker than your own shadow
22:48:03  <Eddi|zuHause> and i had to go through the wohle house, must have taken several tens of seconds
22:49:12  <Eddi|zuHause> according to the log, 40 seconds
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22:51:19  <Eddi|zuHause> but there must be something wrong with one of the cables, with one i got 500kB/s, with the other i get 11MB/s
22:51:55  <joho> definitly sounds like its broken
22:52:15  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a brand new stretch of cables, we installed them two days ago
22:52:38  <joho> check the rj-45's
22:54:13  <Eddi|zuHause> later
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