Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:40 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:06:15 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:08:10 <caracal> what's the secret to ships, btw? i've never been able to make any money with them, just too danged slow 00:09:07 <caracal> with roads, it's busses and build huge fleets of anything else ... with planes, it's go long distances ... with rail, it's anything goes as long as the trains run on time ... but ships? always lose money with them 00:10:06 <alluke> get big ships 00:10:09 <alluke> not too long routes 00:11:04 <Eddi|zuHause> don't use the default ships, use a newgrf like FISH 00:11:17 <alluke> yeah 00:11:24 <alluke> default ships are rubbish 00:11:31 <caracal> hmm ... that may be my problem 00:12:02 <caracal> in most scenarios i've seen, "big" is the only kind of ship there is, until sometime later some smaller varieties become available 00:12:24 <caracal> i tried ships in Hawaii, but the distances are just too great 00:12:57 <alluke> 1080 ton coaster in fish is great for long distances 00:13:05 <caracal> and ships are hideously expensive, too 00:13:12 <alluke> but cheap to run 00:13:24 <caracal> i think the game's goal is to prove that trains are better than anything else ;) 00:13:37 <Eddi|zuHause> use ships for things that don't really decay in price rates. coal, ore and stuff 00:14:11 <Eddi|zuHause> best if you transfer from multiple sources, so you have large capacity on the ships 00:14:32 <caracal> yeah, that would make sense, and yet i can't seem to make them work ... just need to try smarter, i guess 00:14:53 <caracal> tried shipping oil in Svalbard, but lost money every time 00:15:13 <alluke> how the hell 00:15:18 <glx> use trains for oil :) 00:15:25 <alluke> from rigs? 00:15:29 <glx> yes 00:15:34 <caracal> and yet you keep reading about "shipping magnates" being fabulously rich 00:15:36 <glx> raise land 00:15:42 <alluke> stooopid 00:15:47 <caracal> well, in this case it was from coastal oilfields 00:15:50 <alluke> ships make more sense 00:16:09 <caracal> and there's a big mountain in the middle of the island that makes trains ... harder 00:16:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CBA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:00 <caracal> and it wasn't a very long route, either, just the ships were so danged *slow* 00:17:34 <caracal> plus they get lost in the open ocean, and can't find their way around some land, so i had to build several buoys 00:18:15 <caracal> i'll try them again sometime, but am having too much fun with planes right now <g> 00:18:24 <alluke> use buoys 00:18:37 <alluke> nvm 00:18:59 <alluke> enabled oil rigs in my current game 00:19:07 <alluke> may ships some oil later ;) 00:19:59 <caracal> yeah, i was playing the netherlands a few days ago, all those tantalizing oil rigs off the coast ... but flying passengers to them with helos is a losing proposition, i've found 00:20:27 <caracal> for one thing, without ships to pick up their oil, they keep closing 00:20:57 <alluke> indeed 00:21:27 <caracal> but even when they stay open, there's no money to be made flying passengers to/from them 00:21:53 <alluke> i wish ogfx+ trees would support tropic better :/ 00:22:20 <alluke> now all trees are just palms 00:23:08 <alluke> but i aint using it in this game anyway 00:33:55 *** alluke [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:49:40 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFDAC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:22 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 00:56:32 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:45a5:3aa2:4558:622c] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:03:28 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 02:28:51 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC37B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 03:47:46 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 04:20:32 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:51:57 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 04:53:46 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B72D6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B72B25.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:22:08 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:51:47 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@zomg.dongues.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:51:56 *** JVassie_ [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 06:01:38 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@zomg.dongues.com] has joined #openttd 06:18:00 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 06:48:42 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 06:57:27 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:03:02 <dihedral> good morning 07:03:32 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 07:18:06 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 07:19:29 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-005-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:31:14 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 07:52:23 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC42A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:53:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has joined #openttd 07:56:44 <andythenorth> morning 08:08:36 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest860 08:08:36 *** Guest860 [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has joined #openttd 08:10:38 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest862 08:10:38 *** Guest862 [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:10:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has joined #openttd 08:11:57 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:28:18 *** amkoroew [~matze@p5B105646.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:40:00 <Terkhen> good morning 08:43:26 *** Amis [~Amis@mail.paks.hu] has joined #openttd 08:57:21 <planetmaker> moin 08:58:56 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C0C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:59:13 *** amkoroew [~matze@p5B105646.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:33:44 *** amkoroew [~matze@p5B105646.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:39:56 *** amkoroew [~matze@p5B105646.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:40:57 *** amkoroew [~matze@p5B105646.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:06:39 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:31:24 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:47:06 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-005-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 11:04:49 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:06:58 *** _bl0kem [~res_tooth@121-73-141-252.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #openttd 11:13:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.172.125] has joined #openttd 11:19:57 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D05.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:40:56 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.153.138.204] has joined #openttd 11:41:13 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 11:48:32 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 12:00:38 <MNIM> anythinng interesting lately? 12:03:26 <_bl0kem> idling up 23% in the latest polls 12:06:21 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c871:d885:2e21:db89] has joined #openttd 12:06:25 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:11:23 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd 12:21:05 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 12:22:06 <MNIM> idling what? 12:28:11 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 12:29:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:47:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 12:47:45 <Belugas> hello 12:50:02 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:53:31 <MNIM> no? 13:01:41 *** Amis [~Amis@mail.paks.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:05:04 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:09:12 <_bl0kem> time spent idling in channels has increased 23% 13:09:31 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 13:10:03 <_bl0kem> www.ircstats.org/stats/2356578/view.html 13:16:01 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFFB4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:21:18 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:00:17 <_bl0kem> this just in... new facebook viral spam has dynamic content creation 14:00:29 <_bl0kem> thats wild yo.. 14:06:17 <Belugas> god enough a reason not to get on facebook :) 14:06:27 <Belugas> good enough 14:11:16 <_bl0kem> Yea i just have a blank profile to survey my surroundings 14:12:27 <Belugas> mmh... 14:12:35 <Belugas> strange 14:13:07 <Belugas> i'm more into the "don't touch it" mentality 14:17:13 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-005-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:31:22 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:51:29 <dihedral> Belugas, i am more in the "damage done" 14:52:15 <_bl0kem> and i in the 'social pariah' 14:52:38 * _bl0kem chuckles uneasily 14:53:56 *** opa [JoFQhScs@rikki.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:55:06 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-067-080-103.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:59:43 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest883 14:59:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has joined #openttd 15:03:48 * Belugas slurps coffee 15:04:08 * andythenorth works on firs nfo->nml conversion 15:05:28 <andythenorth> hmm 15:05:40 <andythenorth> pasting 54k lines into a textarea crashes Safari :P 15:06:32 *** Guest883 [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:06:42 * DanMacK is out of coffee :( 15:27:58 *** Amis [~Amis@5400EBF1.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 15:35:24 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:39:38 *** _bl0kem [~res_tooth@121-73-141-252.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:03 <MNIM> no, SHEEET 15:54:33 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f6b5e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:02:14 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 16:16:55 *** ThaAmazonous [~ThaAmazon@ks311191.kimsufi.com] has joined #openttd 16:17:29 *** ThaAmazonous [~ThaAmazon@ks311191.kimsufi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:32 *** ar3k [~ident@eco9.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 16:17:57 *** ThaAmazonous [~ThaAmazon@ks311191.kimsufi.com] has joined #openttd 16:19:06 *** ThaAmazonous [~ThaAmazon@ks311191.kimsufi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:13 *** ThaAmazonous [~ThaAmazon@ks311191.kimsufi.com] has joined #openttd 16:22:30 *** ThaAmazonous [~ThaAmazon@ks311191.kimsufi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:44 *** ThaAmazonous [~ThaAmazon@ks311191.kimsufi.com] has joined #openttd 16:23:33 *** ThaAmazonous [~ThaAmazon@ks311191.kimsufi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:39 *** ThaAmazonous [~ThaAmazon@ks311191.kimsufi.com] has joined #openttd 16:23:45 *** ThaAmazonous [~ThaAmazon@ks311191.kimsufi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:01 *** ThaAmazonous [~ThaAmazon@ks311191.kimsufi.com] has joined #openttd 16:24:15 *** ThaAmazonous [~ThaAmazon@ks311191.kimsufi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:36 * andythenorth has learnt a new word 16:24:38 <andythenorth> indirection 16:24:56 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebw250.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:25:00 <andythenorth> which is much shorter than saying "relying on referencing something by its position in an array is fricking stupid" 16:25:44 *** ThaAmazonous [~ThaAmazon@ks311191.kimsufi.com] has joined #openttd 16:37:12 *** V453000 [~V453000@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: You must construct additional PYLONS to get me back!] 16:37:22 *** Yexo- [~Yexo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 16:37:52 *** V453000 [~V453000@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 16:38:22 *** tneo- [~tneo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 16:39:17 *** alluke [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 16:39:53 *** tneo [~tneo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:39:54 <alluke> lakie im disappoint 16:39:56 *** Yexo [~Yexo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:40:16 *** Pixa [~Pixa@79-68-102-37.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 16:40:41 <andythenorth> Why? You lost all your apostrophes? Why blame lakie for that? :) 16:41:22 <Lakie> How so? 16:42:35 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:43:51 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:44:02 <DanMacK> Hey Lakie 16:44:47 <alluke> my birthday persent :( 16:45:49 <Lakie> Hi DanMacK, 16:46:49 <Lakie> Heh, well the set isn't particularly finished, I did the last of the steamers last week. Currently working on a bit a week. 16:47:05 <Lakie> (By last, I mean adding 3-4 steamers in one go) 16:47:25 <alluke> kewl 16:47:33 <alluke> at least something is happening 16:47:46 <Lakie> Just needs putting on devzone at somepoint 16:48:05 <alluke> btw 16:48:15 <alluke> how are they named? 16:48:18 <alluke> just the littera? 16:48:26 <Lakie> hopefully by lang files 16:48:43 <alluke> i mean the locos 16:48:44 <Lakie> Currently for simplicity just 'tr1' ('type'). 16:48:51 <alluke> great 16:48:59 <alluke> i dont think they need anything else 16:49:09 <Lakie> But that will be changable (hopefully fairly simply) 16:49:30 <alluke> nicknames? 16:49:32 <DanMacK> Not going with Nicknames? 16:49:46 <Lakie> I'm leaving the setting of the engine names to you DanMacK 16:49:52 <DanMacK> heh 16:49:58 <Lakie> As I add them I'll just put engine names for simplicity 16:50:05 <Lakie> ;) 16:50:35 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:51:04 <alluke> how about early wagons? 16:51:11 * andythenorth reworks FIRS sugar refinery, which is crappy currently 16:51:23 <andythenorth> does anyone actually use the sugar refinery? I never deliver to it 16:51:28 * DanMacK was thinking Class "Nickname" 0-0-0 (ie Tk3 "Pikku-Jumbo" 2-8-0) 16:51:40 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC42A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 16:51:42 * DanMacK thinks it has a place in a tropical setting 16:51:54 <andythenorth> sugar beets are big where I grew up 16:51:58 <andythenorth> and in central europe 16:52:05 <DanMacK> What about the early wagons? 16:52:09 <alluke> andy 16:52:12 <DanMacK> Where did you grow up? 16:52:19 <andythenorth> middle uk 16:52:19 <alluke> make the sugar beet change to cane in tropical 16:52:23 <andythenorth> it does 16:52:27 <alluke> cool 16:52:46 <alluke> you can play as brazil sugar baron :P 16:53:06 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-067-080-103.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:53:11 <Lakie> I put in the FO, Po and E, I think from memory 16:53:31 <Lakie> I was going to deal with the proper cargo ones next as they need cargo tables and planning 16:53:45 <alluke> k 16:54:58 <alluke> whats E 16:55:38 <alluke> nvm 16:55:45 <alluke> early passenger wagon 16:55:55 <alluke> is it drawn? 16:56:00 <alluke> cant see pic on the site 16:57:00 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: goodbye] 16:58:36 <alluke> http://vaunut.org/kuva/48709?tag0=9%7CE%7C 17:00:49 <Lakie> Ok, its the Ei, Po and FO's in game 17:01:49 <alluke> ok 17:04:31 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:07:51 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:08:28 <alluke> how do i get tiny desert village grow 17:08:52 <alluke> im already carrying passengers, mail, and water 17:13:48 <frosch123> you need both water and food 17:14:57 <alluke> doesnt accept food yet 17:16:41 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces] 17:17:45 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-067-080-103.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:26:11 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:17 *** keky___ [~stefan@p5098b65a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:31:13 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:34:17 <frosch123> iirc funding buildings circumvents the cargo requirements 17:35:13 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 17:35:16 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 17:35:57 <alluke> been doing that 17:37:57 <andythenorth> doesn't funding go via the 'is town allowed to grow' method? 17:38:36 <alluke> allowed? 17:40:01 <andythenorth> I dunno, I'm guessing 17:40:05 <andythenorth> I could go read /src 17:41:02 <alluke> its growing now a little 17:41:24 <andythenorth> the wiki page on town growth has something about it 17:41:54 <alluke> kk 17:43:11 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22632 /trunk/src/lang/brazilian_portuguese.txt: 17:43:11 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:43:11 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 2 changes by Luis_Mizuchiro 17:46:33 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host86-99-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:47:27 <Wolf01> hello 17:52:10 *** ThaAmazonous [~ThaAmazon@ks311191.kimsufi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:45 *** ThaAmazonous [~ThaAmazon@ks311191.kimsufi.com] has joined #openttd 17:58:06 *** alluke [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:59:42 <Terkhen> hi 18:00:40 <__ln__> 'qapla 18:01:05 *** alluke [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 18:04:04 *** keky___ [~stefan@p5098b65a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:08:41 <andythenorth> hola 18:10:05 * andythenorth wonders 18:10:13 <andythenorth> nvm 18:10:25 * planetmaker doesn't :-P 18:11:23 * Belugas would not 18:11:32 * andythenorth is 18:12:08 <Hirundo> frosch123: yesterday's short discussion about station random action2 made me wonder about industries 18:12:24 <alluke> pm 18:12:27 <frosch123> for industries random stuff is implemented 18:12:29 <Hirundo> Currently OpenTTD only reseeds the tile-specific bits 18:12:36 <alluke> the rail bug isnt only isr issue 18:13:31 <Hirundo> The specs state "The triggers are the same for both: " which sortof implies that industry random bits can also be reseeded, but it's not really clear 18:14:04 <frosch123> triggering the industry means triggering all tiles at once 18:14:44 <frosch123> well, i guess there are only triggers for the tiles 18:15:33 <frosch123> oh, i think i get what you mean 18:16:00 <Hirundo> That implies that Industry::random_triggers is bogus 18:16:16 * andythenorth draws rough river shores 18:16:22 <andythenorth> not 100% successful 18:16:29 <andythenorth> really the issue is that rivers need to curve more 18:16:33 <andythenorth> but that's not game style 18:16:47 <Hirundo> TriggerIndustry is just a wrapper for a tileloop, indeed 18:18:13 <frosch123> well, yes, but DoTriggerIndustryTile() only modifies tile bits 18:18:28 <frosch123> let's see what ttdp does 18:25:19 <frosch123> i don't see ttdp doing something different 18:26:42 <frosch123> oh, wait, i see it 18:27:20 <alluke> what if u code rivers to go like rails 18:27:22 <frosch123> ttdp does first a loop over all tiles, triggering each tile, and then also updates the industry bits (which is missing from ottd) 18:27:25 <alluke> you can ge more curves 18:27:33 <frosch123> but ttdp does not call the industry action3 either 18:27:55 <frosch123> i guess it ORs all rerandomisation bits of the tiles 18:28:23 <Hirundo> and then, reseed that part of the industry random bits? 18:30:17 <frosch123> yes, it reseeds those bits of the industry, which at least one tile action123-chain requested reseeding for 18:30:35 <frosch123> so, the triggers only apply to tiles, but also affect the random bits of industries 18:31:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause planetmaker: Rubidium better river shores? (the N side only) http://tt-foundry.com/misc/better_shores.png 18:33:14 <Hirundo> I'll add a note to the wiki 18:33:27 <frosch123> i'll implement it :p 18:34:42 <Rubidium> andythenorth: looks great to me 18:35:15 <Hirundo> division of labour :) 18:35:17 <frosch123> Hirundo: actually this only seems to apply to triggers 1 and 2 (which are called for all tiles) 18:35:27 <frosch123> trigger 0 does not seem to update the random bits of the industry 18:35:31 <andythenorth> I await comment from Eddi|zuHause 18:35:34 <andythenorth> :) 18:35:40 <andythenorth> as it was his request 18:36:37 <Hirundo> So only if (waiting_triggers | new_trigger) & 0x06 != 0 ? 18:36:42 <frosch123> i wonder whether this is a bug in ttdp as well 18:37:02 <frosch123> no, only when they actually trigger 18:37:29 <frosch123> so, new_trigger & 0x06 18:37:54 <frosch123> so, if 0 is waiting, it would actually change the industry bits :o 18:37:57 <MNIM> hmmmmh, question. 18:38:04 <frosch123> which makes it even more look like a bug 18:38:45 <MNIM> when you order a vehicle to transfer, does the destination still use its resources if it accepts it? 18:39:36 <MNIM> (like it would with just 'unload all' 18:39:37 <MNIM> ) 18:40:32 <Hirundo> no, transfer is intended to move the cargo to the station, even if it is accepted 18:40:44 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host135-109-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:40:44 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest903 18:40:45 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 18:46:17 *** Guest903 [~wolf01@host86-99-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:49:18 <andythenorth> improved: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/better_shores_2.png 18:49:33 <andythenorth> bit ragged 18:51:35 <andythenorth> cleaner: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/better_shores_3.png 18:52:27 *** KouDy [~koudy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:52:58 <andythenorth> with a town: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/better_shores_4.png 18:53:05 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:53:08 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:54:49 <frosch123> oh, this reseeding of the related object's bit is actually unique to industries 18:54:53 <frosch123> vehicles do it different 18:55:35 <Hirundo> Then how does it work for vehicles? 18:57:08 <MNIM> Hmmmmh. 18:57:45 <MNIM> It would be nice if vehicle titles would display a load percentage 18:58:37 <frosch123> looks like vehicles can only change their own bits 18:58:51 <frosch123> the related / self thingie only applies to waiting triggers 18:59:45 <frosch123> luckily airports and objects have no triggers yet :p 18:59:50 <Hirundo> So a vehicle can change its own bits, based on the triggers of another vehicle? 19:01:18 <frosch123> i wonder whether type 84 makes any sense with reseeding 19:03:02 <frosch123> yeah 84 also only affects reading of random bits, and reading and setting of triggers 19:03:05 <frosch123> not reseeding 19:03:24 <frosch123> at least in ottd, let's compare with ttdp 19:03:27 <andythenorth> did the S shore: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/better_shores_5.png 19:03:36 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 19:04:04 <Hirundo> tbh, I always wondered, if random action2 made any sense.... (at least the CB 1 mechanism) 19:04:47 <frosch123> hehe, yeah. at least i very much opposed the addition of type 84 back then 19:07:00 <Hirundo> A 60+x var that gets the random bits of other vehicles in the chain might make more sense, exp. now we have var 7B 19:07:05 <MNIM> hmmmmmh. andythenorth, If it is not too late to do so, Id suggest making the beaches for rivers visibly smaller than sea shores, but still winding and irregular 19:07:24 <andythenorth> it is not too late to do so 19:07:26 <andythenorth> and they are 19:07:27 <andythenorth> ;) 19:08:23 <andythenorth> I tried using rocks instead of sandy shore, but it doesn't look right 19:08:36 <MNIM> hmmmh, oh yeah. got a bit skewed when comparing to original river. 19:09:14 <MNIM> to be honest, I don't mind the original rivers apart from the fact that they're straighter than a ruler 19:09:32 * Alberth likes the comment by FooBar: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=954858#p954858 :D 19:09:38 <MNIM> (note, Im using opengfx 19:09:40 <MNIM> ) 19:10:13 <alluke> me too 19:10:59 <alluke> those rivers look nice but they wont fit elsewhere than original ttd terrain 19:11:10 <MNIM> I think what thexfile means is that he wants a suspended monorail as railtype, not as roadtype 19:11:13 <MNIM> :P 19:11:18 <andythenorth> alluke: what would you suggest instead? 19:12:05 <alluke> drawing them in ogfx style too? 19:12:23 <andythenorth> but then they won't fit original ttd terrain 19:12:48 <alluke> separate files? 19:12:57 <andythenorth> ah I see 19:13:00 <alluke> ;) 19:13:17 <andythenorth> so draw two sets of rivers? 19:13:28 <Ammler> yes, please :-) 19:13:29 <alluke> only solution afaik 19:14:28 <Ammler> andythenorth: psd with different layers 19:14:41 <andythenorth> I reduced the shores a little: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/better_shores_6.png 19:15:05 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:15:11 <andythenorth> does a psd with different layers help? 19:15:17 <alluke> what about rapids 19:15:25 <MNIM> excellent, andy! 19:15:48 <andythenorth> rapids are fast moving sections of water found on rivers 19:15:55 <Ammler> gimp can make pngs from it 19:16:05 <alluke> harhar :P 19:16:19 <alluke> i mean the sloped river tiles 19:16:32 *** amkoroew [~matze@p5B105646.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:16:36 <MNIM> the only thing is that you need to shift both shores a little, since the upper shore looks really steep while the lower shore looks really too gentle in comparison 19:17:04 <Ammler> maybe you could also make different river shores and use random? 19:17:37 <Ammler> also try to make a lake 19:17:48 <andythenorth> MNIM: I'll try that 19:18:00 <andythenorth> Ammler: make your own lake :) 19:18:03 <andythenorth> check out the grf 19:18:06 <Ammler> nah 19:18:14 <Ammler> I meant to see how your graphics fit :-P 19:18:57 <andythenorth> that's what I mean 19:18:59 <Ammler> IMO, your shores are to small 19:19:40 <Ammler> such a big ship does not need to fit one one tile rifer, necessary, does it? 19:19:40 <andythenorth> you want more sand? 19:19:53 <Ammler> river* 19:20:15 <alluke> you can always build larger rivers 19:20:20 <Ammler> yes 19:20:35 <alluke> so one tile should be narrow enough for smaller boat 19:20:43 <Ammler> andythenorth: around 3 pixels on both sides :-) 19:20:51 <MNIM> hmmmh. 19:21:01 <andythenorth> Ammler: so same as coasts? 19:21:05 <MNIM> it would be nice to be able to build rivers in-game 19:21:19 <alluke> yeah 19:21:32 <Ammler> andythenorth: not just sand, could also be grass 19:21:36 <alluke> but you can do it in scenario editor 19:21:39 <Ammler> or stones 19:21:54 <alluke> just rename the save file to .scn, mod it, and rename back to .sav 19:22:00 <Ammler> I am not aware of rivers with sand shores 19:22:03 <andythenorth> Ammler: they can't be physically larger 19:22:04 <MNIM> yeah, but I don't like having to switch all the time 19:22:07 <andythenorth> they'll clip 19:22:25 <alluke> could the shores be different in different climates 19:22:32 <alluke> like desert and snow 19:22:38 <frosch123> hmm, you can say about ottd not complying to newgrf specs what you want, but ttdp is just as broken :p 19:22:41 <Ammler> of course 19:23:10 <Ammler> alluke: check opengfx 19:23:18 <alluke> ? 19:23:21 <alluke> i already have it 19:23:33 <Ammler> opengfx has already rivers, not that nice ones, but it has 19:23:36 <alluke> ik 19:23:46 <Ammler> so then why do you ask? 19:23:58 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-90-82.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:24:09 <alluke> i meant those new ones 19:24:30 <alluke> like sandy shores on desert and grassy in the rainforest 19:25:00 <Ammler> no idea, how much different they can be in the same climate 19:25:06 <alluke> or stone on arctic and ice on snow 19:26:55 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest911 19:26:55 *** Guest911 [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has joined #openttd 19:27:49 <alluke> cool cement wagon 19:31:59 <Hirundo> doesn't ttdp consider itself the reference implementation of the specs? 19:39:19 * andythenorth -> pub 19:39:27 <andythenorth> fascinating discussion on rivers can wait until another day 19:40:30 <devilsadvocate_> Hirundo: doesnt everyone, everywhere, consider themselves the refernece implementation? 19:40:45 <andythenorth> when it comes to river sprites, apparently yes 19:40:47 <andythenorth> bye 19:40:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has left #openttd [] 19:43:42 *** alluke [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:44:54 <Alberth> devilsadvocate_: nah, I am not the reference implementation of me :) 19:46:34 *** Tzvika-Pick [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:47:43 *** alluke [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:48:22 *** Tzvika-Pick [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [] 19:52:57 *** alluke [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:56:20 *** amkoroew [~matze@p5B105646.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:58:53 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:00:56 *** JVassie_ [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:06:59 <Alberth> Ammler: EOL ? 20:08:59 <Ammler> 2wayred=eol 20:09:24 <Ammler> that was default in pre 1.0 and changed 20:10:03 <Alberth> sorry, no idea what you are saying :) 20:10:14 <Ammler> I accidentially sliped in that thread, I usually do nothing there 20:10:38 <Ammler> pf.yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol = on$ 20:11:23 <Alberth> oh, a yapf setting :o 20:11:50 <Ammler> yes, that is off now per default 20:11:55 <Alberth> amazing what those players know :D 20:12:11 <Alberth> thanks for explaining 20:12:24 <Ammler> I am not sure, if that situation in his image would work with it 20:12:44 <Ammler> but I made such depot buffers already 20:13:14 <Alberth> hmm, is that a compability setting with the original program perhaps? 20:14:14 <Alberth> I seem to remember that ttdx used to treat 2way signals differently (unfortunately I found out after I was finished playing with it :( ) 20:17:23 *** APTX_ [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 20:18:30 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22633 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_railtype.cpp rail.h table/railtypes.h): -Fix: Implement variables 25 and 7F for railtypes. 20:25:59 <Ammler> Alberth: that is not just compatibility, it is mandatory for our gameplay 20:26:30 <Ammler> we need quite a lot to "force" trains taking a redirect :-) 20:27:05 <Alberth> :) 20:30:00 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22634 /trunk/src/ (13 files): -Codechange: Deduplicate some code. Note that zeroing 'count' is intentionally removed, it is only used together with 'scope'. 20:35:22 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22635 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Fix: Correctly reseed random bits of industries and industry tiles. 20:38:57 *** Firzen [~Neon@dslb-094-219-005-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 20:39:08 *** Firzen [~Neon@dslb-094-219-005-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 20:40:34 <frosch123> I wonder whether any industry grf will notice that 20:42:01 *** Amis [~Amis@5400EBF1.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:44:52 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:54 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC42A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:50:10 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause planetmaker: Rubidium better river shores? (the N side only) http://tt-foundry.com/misc/better_shores.png <-- looks good 20:50:41 <Alberth> sufficient highlights I'd say :p 20:52:53 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:53:03 <Eddi|zuHause> could easily add half a dozen more :p 20:54:04 <frosch123> what do you mean, Eddi|zuHause? 20:54:11 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: do you mean highlights? 20:54:18 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: or something else? 20:54:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant highlights, yes ;) 20:54:32 <frosch123> thought so, Eddi|zuHause :) 20:55:18 <Eddi|zuHause> but andy is gone 20:59:16 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:09:27 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:16:18 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:16:55 *** opa [p0Kkn56n@rikki.fi] has joined #openttd 21:19:01 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:45 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:25:50 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-067-080-103.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:26:09 <Wolf01> 'night 21:26:12 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host135-109-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:38:18 <opa> changing acceleration model doesn't seem to affect train speeds 21:47:16 <Eddi|zuHause> not the max speed, but the speed in curves and on hills 21:48:12 <opa> that too 21:48:38 <opa> even one slope slows my trains to 1/4 top speed 21:49:18 <Hirundo> frosch123: Nice, quick fix :) 21:49:52 <Ammler> that is old accel model? 21:50:03 <Hirundo> wrt stations, I guess we are currently missing map bits to store the platform-specific triggers 21:50:24 <Eddi|zuHause> opa: the original acceleration model has really harsh limit on slopes 21:50:28 <frosch123> Hirundo: just extended the specs with the information i gather from ottd and ttdp code 21:50:59 <frosch123> i also wrote a note about remembering triggers of stations :p 21:51:26 <opa> Eddi|zuHause: changing to realistic model still slows down my trains considerably even in one slope 21:51:26 *** KouDy [~koudy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:51:44 <Ammler> then you use a very weak engine 21:51:52 <Eddi|zuHause> opa: that depends on train power, steepness setting and freight multiplicator 21:52:38 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:43 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 21:53:06 <frosch123> Hirundo: basically, remembering triggers for stations makes no sense. there will never be enough bits for all cargo types 21:54:30 <opa> steepness setting and freight multiplicator are defaults 21:54:39 <opa> train has 2200hp and it has 4 cars 21:55:52 <Hirundo> hmm.. what if the north tile of an airport isn't an airport tile? or are non-square airports not yet supported? 21:56:07 <frosch123> yeah, wondered that as well 21:56:17 <frosch123> maybe those 4 bits are unintentional 21:56:24 <frosch123> Yexo-: ^^ 21:56:56 <Yexo-> an airport where the north tile is no airport tile leads to all sorts of problems 21:57:02 <Yexo-> it's one of the reasons the statemachine callback is not done 21:57:18 <Yexo-> there is no obvious "base" tile in that case, so no tile to base the z-heigth on 21:57:33 <frosch123> well, but should airports access the 4 random bits of the north tile? 21:57:43 <frosch123> or should that feature be removed? 21:57:58 <Eddi|zuHause> opa: you sure you changed the setting within the savegame? 21:58:02 <Yexo-> do they? 21:58:05 <Yexo-> if they do, that's unwanted 21:58:52 <Yexo-> opa: the "default" value of those settings has changed over time 21:58:52 <Yexo-> so please state the exact value of those settings 21:59:08 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 21:59:13 <Eddi|zuHause> how do industries behave in those cases? 21:59:37 <Hirundo> They only access the industry-specific bits 22:00:07 <Yexo-> I only read a few lines before where frosch123 highlighted me 22:00:31 *** Yexo- is now known as Yexo 22:00:55 <Eddi|zuHause> there's no sane reason why airports should behave differently to industries wrt random bits 22:01:03 <Yexo> if there is more I should know, please fill me in 22:01:36 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: there is: airports tiles currently have no parent scope, so no way at all to access airport random bits 22:01:48 <Yexo> that's why they behave like stations 22:02:02 <Yexo> + the fact that airport tiles are station tiles in the code, which made it easier to share that 22:02:14 <Yexo> conceptually they're a bit of both, which makes it difficult 22:02:17 <Eddi|zuHause> how about non-square airports must specify a "reference" tile, that must be within their area 22:02:34 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/remove_access_northtile.diff <- Yexo 22:03:00 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: that was also the idea I had, just never implemented it 22:03:33 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: read the new page on randomaction2 22:03:41 <frosch123> there is no reason why anything should behave the same 22:03:47 <Yexo> frosch123: ah, that's "airport" code, not "airport tiles" code. :) looks good 22:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause> a byte or word-sized property, format XXYY, which is an offset to the north corner, defaults to 0 (meaning the north corner itself). if it is not within the airport area, then the airport is invalid and cannot be built 22:04:54 <Eddi|zuHause> "north corner" is a bad word, since it would be rotated 22:05:14 <Yexo> for rotated airports the reference tile should be rotated too 22:05:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 22:05:29 <Yexo> so in case of 180* rotated it should be the "south corner" 22:05:35 <Yexo> that idea sounds good 22:05:44 <opa> arf, user error. i could sworn that there read "vehicle", not "road" where i tried to change the model... 22:05:53 <opa> btw why the realistic one is not default? 22:05:55 <Yexo> I don't have the time to implement it (or anything else) anytime soon though 22:05:55 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22636 /trunk/src/newgrf_airport.cpp: -Fix: Airports should not expose the tile specific random bits of the north tile. Only airport tiles should access those. 22:09:45 <frosch123> night 22:09:50 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:09:50 <Yexo> night frosch123 22:09:52 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f6b5e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:55 *** Pixa [~Pixa@79-68-102-37.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:21:14 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:23:42 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:24:22 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-005-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 22:25:28 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:35:24 *** Jerik [~Alexander@c-98-225-165-215.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:36:38 <Jerik> Is anyone here avilable to give some gameplay advice 22:36:40 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@30.80-202-82.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 22:36:54 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@30.80-202-82.nextgentel.com] has quit [] 22:39:03 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:59 <Hirundo> Just ask your question 22:43:20 <Jerik> I downloaded the ame yesterday and have been flipping through the manual/tutorials 22:43:55 <Jerik> However, I have no idea how to play. What's a good starting strategy? I run out of money pretty quickly, and it seems my initial investment don't have a very good return 22:44:40 <Jerik> Looking at the books, my biggest expense seems to be property maintenance 22:45:37 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: The Third Tiberium War - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 22:56:29 <MNIM> Jerik: whatever you do, start with transporting coal from mines to power plants first 22:56:40 <Jerik> Okay. 22:57:01 <Jerik> The method is less important? Should I start with trucks and move to trains? 22:57:26 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:34 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:07:24 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 23:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> the easiest money is airplanes over long distances 23:10:12 <Jerik> So I should use my starting money on planes? 23:10:37 <Eddi|zuHause> many people focus on trains 23:11:29 <Eddi|zuHause> make sure the train is set to "full load" on the mine 23:11:35 <Jerik> Okay. 23:12:01 <Eddi|zuHause> start with coal, ore, or passengers 23:12:26 <Eddi|zuHause> passengers are very good if you have two large cities (>2000 inhabitants) nearby 23:12:53 * __ln__ starts with a few coal (rail) routes usually 23:13:13 <Jerik> Ah. I've been doing a lot of busses/trucks. Starting to think that's not the right move? 23:13:47 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:13:55 <Eddi|zuHause> there have been people doing "truck only" games ;) 23:14:08 <Jerik> Wow 23:14:39 <Jerik> I start out and only a few years in I'm dead broke and only bringing in 5-8k/yr 23:15:54 <Jerik> Truck only must be intense 23:16:02 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC42A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 23:16:10 <caracal> a technique that's worked for me, in some scenarios at least, is (1) build bus routes in the two largest cities ... maybe 2 to 4 busses each (2) let that run for a while, until the passenger load increases (3) build an airport in each city and start flying planes between them 23:16:52 <caracal> one trick is to build a bus stop near the airport, link it with the airport, and add it as "Transfer and leave empty" 23:17:05 <caracal> that crowds your airports pretty quickly 23:17:14 <Jerik> Hahahahahah 23:18:01 <caracal> you may have to increase your loan a time or two during the early years, but it turns into a cash cow pretty quickly 23:18:19 <Jerik> Alright, I'll have to give that a shot. 23:18:28 <Jerik> Thanks Eddi/Cara 23:18:47 <caracal> then as your balance gets fat, start doing the same thing in increasingly smaller cities 23:19:02 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C0C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:11 <caracal> i mopped the floor with the AIs a couple days ago, despite their building passenger train routes everywhere 23:19:52 <caracal> but i'm a n00b, so you can't take my advice as being worth much ;) 23:20:38 <caracal> air routes certainly lack the poetic righteousness of a large well-laid-out rail system 23:22:19 <Jerik> Haha, well I don't know jack, so any advice is good advice 23:22:39 <Jerik> And yeah, it seems from the wiki that trains are a far-and-away favorite 23:28:39 <caracal> the game descended from Railroad Tycoon, so that's understandable 23:29:34 <caracal> trains are cheap to buy, cheap to run, haul huge amounts, and are quite fast compared to most other vehicles 23:32:19 <Jerik> Yeah 23:34:25 <opa> this game would be pretty boring without trains 23:37:34 <opa> i think that trains are easier to get working 23:37:43 <opa> i allways seem to have trouble with trucks/buses 23:37:57 <caracal> i'm the reverse ... laying track is always a problem for me 23:38:38 <Eddi|zuHause> tracks are easy. signals are where the fun starts :) 23:38:55 <caracal> tracks are easy if the ground is perfectly flat 23:39:49 <caracal> and yes, signals are still mostly a mystery to me ... i seem to recall building pretty complex rail layouts in RT2, but i think ottd's signals are more complex 23:40:14 <Jerik> I had to make a big, flat, empty scenario just to get a grip on junctions 23:40:40 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:02 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-102-211.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:45:38 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 23:49:09 <Jerik> PLeas print money 23:49:12 <Jerik> *Planes 23:49:21 <Jerik> Wow. That was quite the mistype 23:49:27 *** Xrufuian [~xrufuian-@pool-98-119-100-15.lsanca.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 23:49:44 <caracal> heh ... yes, please print me some money ;) 23:50:48 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-90-82.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:56:52 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-102-211.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd